1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,920 Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: cult or a high control group. 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power 4 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: that you'd like to share. 5 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three 6 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust. 7 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight. 8 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at 9 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. 10 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 3: Trust me, trust me, trust me. I'm like a swat person. 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: I've never lied to you. 12 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers. 13 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: Don't welcome to trust Me the podcast about cults, high 14 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: control groups, and manipulation. I'm Megan Elizabeth, joined by producer 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: Steve for this intro because Lola is visiting family. 16 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 3: Hey everybody, hi Steve. 17 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: Today's guest is Warren Cole, a fifth generation member of 18 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: the two X twos who became a worker or minister 19 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: in the group. 20 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 4: That's the group you grew up in, Meghan, Yeah. 21 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: It is. And it's cool to talk to somebody who 22 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: is actually a leader in a group that we are exploring, 23 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: not just the members. So pretty excited. So Warren discusses 24 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: his level of devouteness to the group. How utter heartbreak 25 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: in high school led him into the work and what 26 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: it's like being celibate, not having your own home, and 27 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: having your entire life controlled. 28 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 4: How did you meet Warren? 29 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: By the way, he is in our x two y 30 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: two Facebook group, So anybody who wants to get online 31 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: and join us over there, we have some very intriguing 32 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: conversations and I was able to meet Warren and many 33 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: other workers who've left the work. And there's a trigger 34 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: warning for this one, especially for people who are in 35 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: the group. We do name some alleged perpetrators. Lots of 36 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: hard topics discussed, but ultimately we're not trying to paint 37 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: the whole group with the broadbrush, but want to get 38 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: the information out there that there is some pretty crazy 39 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: stuff happening. 40 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: He is a pretty emotionally intense story that you guys 41 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 4: get into. 42 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty wild. I'm so proud of 43 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: him for coming out the other side. So shall we 44 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: talk to Warren. 45 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 4: Let's do it. 46 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: Welcome Warren Cole to trust me. Thank you so much 47 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: for joining us today. 48 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. 49 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 2: I know this is kind of all very fresh, so 50 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: we really appreciate you joining us and giving us some 51 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: insight into a different experience of the two by twos? 52 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 5: So, do you want to give us a little context? 53 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: So for listeners who do not know, this is the 54 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: group that Megan grew up in Larren, Can you just 55 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: give us a little bit of a brief explainer of 56 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: who and what the two by twos are? 57 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 3: So, the way that I always explained it is it's 58 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: a non denominational Christian fellowship that seeks to follow the 59 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 3: teachings of the Bible as closely as possible. When I 60 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: was a minister in it, that was my go to, 61 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 3: Oh what do you do? Oh I'm a minister. I 62 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 3: was dreaded getting my haircut because it's like, Okay, do 63 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 3: you actually want to know or are you just trying 64 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 3: to make conversation because you actually want to know? Okay, fine, 65 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: we can have our own little gospel meeting sort of 66 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: thing with me sitting here in this chair. But if 67 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: you're just asking to be polite, it's going to get 68 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: on both of those right. 69 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: I've never thought of that before. A gospel meeting is 70 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: kind of the meetings that the workers have out in 71 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: public and like libraries, funeral homes, oddly a lot that 72 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: try to attract non members it's very hard to attract 73 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: non members when you're at a funeral home. But whatever, 74 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: So I can see getting your haircut being like, do 75 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: you want the real answer? Should I just say I 76 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: work down the street at the right exactly. 77 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: And one of the defining characteristics of this group, I mean, 78 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: I guess two of them that people seem to find 79 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: the most notable are one that there's not like technically 80 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: a name. We call them the two by twos because 81 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: it's one of the things people would call them, but 82 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: in theory doesn't have a name, right right. 83 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, as far as officially is concerned, in any agreed 84 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: upon name, even for like tax purposes, it gets really interesting. 85 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: Something found out is that male ministers, I guess some 86 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: of the lady ministers don't get as much back to 87 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: what actually happens but getting told. So I think one 88 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: of the names that is on official paperwork here in 89 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: Washington State is Assemblies of Christ, the one that's on 90 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: official paperwork. 91 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 2: Interesting, So there are names on paperwork, but like officially, 92 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: you know, there's not really supposed. 93 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 3: To be a name exactly. Is more like we're required 94 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 3: to do this to avoid getting in legal trouble, right, 95 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 3: And so even getting a whole, you have to give 96 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: them a name. So okay, well we have to come 97 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: up with something, something to write on the check. One 98 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 3: of the reasons called two by twos is usually the 99 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 3: whole shtick is that ministers go. 100 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 5: To by two What state did you grow up in? 101 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: Washington state? 102 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: He grew up in Washington and your family you were 103 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: born and raised? What generation were your parents? 104 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: Mom would have been fourth generation? I was fifth? 105 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 5: Woh, that is those are some deep roots. 106 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 3: It's actually kind of neat in some ways. Have letters 107 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 3: that my rate, maybe another grade in their grandmother wrote 108 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: to sister workers in turn in Germany during the Second 109 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 3: World War. 110 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 5: Wow, and letters that they wrote back, oh wow. 111 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 3: Time stamp, date stamps and everything. Nineteen forty four, nineteen 112 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: forty three. 113 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 5: What were they saying to each other? 114 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 3: Acshally there was a hole, we heard so and so 115 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 3: made their choice, or they're coming along. This is how 116 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: meetings are going, this is what's happening on the farm. 117 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: And then the replies, well, we got a Red Cross 118 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: package this week. Are not being treated too poorly here 119 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: by the Germans, and we really miss our friends aka 120 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 3: members of their congregation and really want to get back 121 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: to preaching the gospel. There's not much opportunity. 122 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 5: Any Wow, fascinating that was some of the back and forth. 123 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: So your roots go so deep in this religion with 124 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: your family, I mean, I imagine from birth. I mean obviously 125 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: you're raised very deeply in it. Like to what extent 126 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: did you feel devout? Did you feel like you believed 127 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: as a child. 128 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 3: Probably fairly defout. I've kind of been a black and 129 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: white sort of person even when I was little. It's 130 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: either wrong or it's wrong, anything much in between that's changing, 131 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: which is scary. So very devout. This is the one 132 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: true way everyone else is going to hell, to the 133 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 3: point of weeping for my dad's parents, who my dad 134 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: was not raised going to meetings that raised as a 135 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,799 Speaker 3: two by two, weeping for them because their souls were lost. 136 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: Warren I found one of the hardest thing to explain 137 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: to people, even people who grew up super Catholic or 138 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: in other cults, is like how heavily the two by 139 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: two's hit Hell, just over and over and over. It's 140 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: almost the entire message. Everyone else going to hell, don't 141 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: go to Hell. And I remember Lila being explained to me, like, 142 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: imagine gasoline being poured on you, and then a match 143 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: and you're lit on fire and the agony and that 144 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: being for eternity and you're a little kid, and you're 145 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: like what I mean, everybody kind of in the religion 146 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: has a little bit of OCD. Born and raised. I 147 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: think it's such a like core component of being raised 148 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: in this religion I have found. I don't know if 149 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: it was like that in Watchington Warren. 150 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: And it's fascinating because there was never any explicit message, 151 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 3: more emplicit messaging about help. Really, it's this really sneaky, 152 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 3: pervasive thing that seems to have worked its way into 153 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: my own and talking to my siblings more recently, their 154 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: experience too is that it's well, technically this is a 155 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: religion focused on love and the love of Jesus, yet 156 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 3: being terrified. I think what was really emphasized up here 157 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: was separation, not necessarily helpmire, but you'd be alone in 158 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: the dark forever. 159 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 5: Oh that's even scarier, Oh my god. 160 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 3: And you'd never see your family again. You would never 161 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: see anybody again. 162 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: That is so terrifying that I guess that version of 163 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: hell seems even worse to me than the other. 164 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 5: But all they both seem terrible. But that's just like. 165 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: But it's just kind of getting drilled in your head 166 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: four times a week unconsciously. Like I just used to 167 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: go up to people that I loved. I guess this 168 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: was my version of like spreading the gospel. But I'd like, 169 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: you're going to hell, you have to like come to 170 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: church with me. This is when I was really little, 171 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: Like I'd see a woman with ear rings and it 172 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: was so stressful. It was just like I was living 173 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: in a completely different reality than everybody else. I don't know, Warren, 174 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: if you felt the same way. The message is very 175 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: like life is fleeting, it does not matter. Jesus is 176 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: probably coming back to the earth tomorrow. Don't get too 177 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: wound up in the world, and like, don't go to hell, 178 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: and so life is just kind of a burden to 179 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: be done with as quickly as possible. 180 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, the emphasis that we're not living for this life 181 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: over and over and over and over and over again. 182 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 3: Then what's the here and now doesn't necessarily matter understanding 183 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: as you okay, right, what does it matter if you 184 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 3: can't go to sports extracurricular activities as a kid, what's 185 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: that compared to the eternity. 186 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 5: It's very Jehovah's witness is like as well. 187 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: From what I hear, there's a lot of similarities. 188 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, but Warren, So, one of the things that I 189 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: think I really want to hear from you about, or 190 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: wen't really want to hear from you about, is you know, 191 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: we talked to a lot of people who are just 192 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 2: sort of regular members of these groups and not anyone 193 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: who's in sort of a position. I'm not sure what 194 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 2: the term is in your religion. In Mormonism, it's priesthood 195 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: or authority before kind of explaining what that means, can 196 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: you tell us what your perception of workers was when 197 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: you were a kid and did you aspire to be one? 198 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: And that's the thing that's interesting, is it? That was 199 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 2: another thing that was very much hammered on. You are celibate. 200 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: You swear off of love in a human sin for 201 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: a lifetime, lifetime commitment ever being loved, as having a 202 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: partner in marriage or anything like that. 203 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 3: That's okay, done gone. 204 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 5: Wow. So like a nun, you are a monk. 205 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: Very similar and Catholicism it would be a cloister priesthood 206 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 3: or yeah. 207 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: But at least they get to go stay in communes 208 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: away from semptation and the rest of civilization anyway, right. 209 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 3: I percent did not want to be a worker, thank 210 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: you very much, not interested. I had my own plans, 211 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: I had what I wanted to do with my life. 212 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 3: It was very much you give up on your dreams 213 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 3: if you go. And I remember the whole joining the church, right, 214 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 3: Typically members, you're a full member of the church by 215 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: the time you're about twelve on average, you're looked at 216 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 3: a little bit weird if you haven't declared intent to 217 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 3: join the church as a full member by the time 218 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 3: you're maybe thirteen fourteen years old. 219 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: So there's sort of a time in your childhood where 220 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: it's like so the Mormon equivalent of that would be 221 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: like you get baptized at the age of eight, and 222 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: you must decide whether it be a real member. 223 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 5: It's like that sort of thing. 224 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: Basically, you're choosing Jesus, You're choosing this is the one 225 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 3: true way, right. And it's interesting because of the derision 226 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: honestly that is sent towards Catholicism, Mormonism, a lot of 227 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 3: the other religions, like, well, they baptized babies, What the 228 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 3: hell that's not right? What choice is a baby. They're 229 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 3: not making any choice that's pointless, worthless, meaningless for them 230 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: to be forced into something, or we never forced anybody in. 231 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 3: But then when I was when I was about twelve, 232 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 3: I remember and these tested meetings. So the way you 233 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 3: declared your intent to join the church is you stood 234 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: to your feet at the end of the hymn that 235 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 3: closed one of these meetings, usually the last verse. Then 236 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 3: you stayed standing up until the worker told you to 237 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 3: sit down. And it was incredibly shy, very much on 238 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 3: the introvert in side, to the point that, yeah, my 239 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 3: parents figured out that's not a punishment at all. It'll 240 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 3: be perfectly fine and happy, and we can send to 241 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 3: his room doing yeah. 242 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: You're like thank you, yeah. 243 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks. You mean an excuse to sit here and 244 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 3: play with my own toys or a fine One of 245 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: the expectations when you're a full member of the church, 246 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: as you stand up and you say something on Wednesday 247 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 3: nights and Sunday mornings and little in home gathering, both 248 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 3: have read the Bible and have something to say about it. 249 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 3: I did not want to do that. Standing in front 250 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: of a whole bunch of people was the last thing 251 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 3: I wanted to. I remember my little some of my 252 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: friends had done the thing. They stood up in a meeting, 253 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: and it was a bit of a unique situation in Washington, 254 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: or at least in this area. At the time, there 255 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 3: was probably between thirty to fifty kids under the age 256 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 3: of sixteen in our area. 257 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: You're so lucky. There was one other boy my age, 258 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: and for some reason, our pots never crossed, so I 259 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: was the only kid. 260 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: All of my friends were in the church. All the 261 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 3: people we interacted with were members of the church. Even 262 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,479 Speaker 3: when we were in school. You're discouraged from forming friendships, 263 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 3: really long term or lasting friendships outside the church. My 264 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: parents put a lot less stuff and that, so we 265 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 3: were lucky in that regardless. Yeah we have friends, so 266 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: I don't care. And I remember actually the one meeting 267 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: right before, i'd felt bothered about this thing. I know 268 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: I didn't want to do it. I knew it was 269 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: the right thing to do, but I didn't want to 270 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: do it. And I remember being terrified that something was 271 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: going to happen, that was going to go wrong. I'm 272 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: going to miss my chance. And interestingly enough, one of 273 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: my little friends, who's currently a minister in the two 274 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 3: baggy religion made his choice a week before I did. Typically, 275 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: when they tested, it would be the end of the mission. 276 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 3: So usually we were right about April May for the 277 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 3: workers left to go to preps for these big conventions. 278 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: And I knew that I'd missed it. I'd missed my chance. 279 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: There was one more meeting left and they weren't going 280 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: to do it again. So I remember sitting in my room, 281 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: in my bed, fall to my mother, Well, what's going 282 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 3: to happen? What if I I missed my chance? What 283 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 3: do I do? What can I do if something happens 284 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 3: between now and whenever? I was given a chance and 285 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 3: I didn't take it, and I'm scared. So the arrangement 286 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 3: was made. We called the two lady ministers, two sister 287 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: workers in our field, and asked them test meeting again, 288 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 3: and so they did Wednesday night. I stood up. I 289 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 3: waited and tell it that there's like three sentences to 290 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: last him before I finally stood up. I didn't want 291 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: to have to stand there awkwardly, standing there bowling my 292 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 3: eyes out. That's pretty typical, it seems, and it doesn't 293 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: really cross one's mind how kind of strange that is. 294 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: There's this huge outpouring of emotion when you joined the church, 295 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: and that's considered good. It's understanding of how serious a 296 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: decision has just been made, kind of the come to 297 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 3: Jesus moment, to come to the front of the altar, 298 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: like the Baptist religions often do. Baptist groups come to 299 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: the front. So that was my introduction. And I was 300 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 3: terrified to even speak in my first few meetings as 301 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 3: a kid. What am I supposed to say? I'm twelve 302 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 3: and there's people in here who've been doing this for 303 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: sixty years. 304 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 2: You're expected to talk in a meeting. I don't really 305 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: know what like a typical meeting looks like. So once 306 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: you not profess, once you kind of commit to the 307 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: church profess, But are you expected to every meeting? 308 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 5: Like how often? 309 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: Because I know, like kids would be expected to bear 310 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: their testimony in church in Mormon church, I want to say, 311 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: it was like once a month the kids would do 312 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: it or something. And I was like you, like, I 313 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: was terrified. I did not want to speak in front 314 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: of people. I did not like the pressure of being 315 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: up there. I feel like I maybe successfully did it 316 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: once and I was just too scared to get up 317 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: and do it for the rest of my life. 318 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: You had the option whether to do it or not. 319 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 5: We did have the option. So was it a requirement 320 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 5: in the two Bay two. 321 00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: Shirts twice a week? 322 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 5: Yes, twice a week. 323 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: Twice a week, yes, all of us. 324 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: After you stand up, you're in you're in the matrix. 325 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: You're speaking twice a week. 326 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: Is there like something specific you're supposed to say, like, 327 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: what does that mean? 328 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: Well, on Wednesday nights, we have a chapter that we're 329 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: all reading from. So this week's chapter is this Bible study, 330 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: and then we all meet with our Wednesday night meetings 331 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: and everybody shares their thoughts on it. And then on 332 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: Sunday it's a free for all, so you can pick 333 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: anywhere in the Bible. 334 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 5: Oh, you're just reading from the Bible. 335 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: No, you're sharing your thoughts in a verse. 336 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 5: Oh, I see, I see it. 337 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: So that was my interpretation. What about you, Warren? 338 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: That was kind of the standard format oft averse and 339 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 3: then say what you felt when you read it. That 340 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 3: was kind of the start point. And of course by 341 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: the time you're you've sat in these meetings twice a 342 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: week for your entire life, and so it's kind of 343 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: a learn on the job sort of thing of what 344 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: the expectations are. It's fascinating, I think maybe to be 345 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 3: an outsider to come in and you if there is 346 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 3: a format that been set and there is none, there 347 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: is no guidance really at all. Oh and you're supposed 348 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 3: to pray. You pray in each of these. So there's 349 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: two distinct talk times. So meeting starts. Usually the person 350 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: who's home the meeting is in, but he's little in 351 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 3: person gathering. 352 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 5: Because all of the meetings are in humes. 353 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 3: Yes so, and always the male. No female has is 354 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 3: ever given leave to lead a meeting unless she is 355 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: a member of the ministry and there's no male minister present. 356 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: Only then they given permission to run the meeting. Pretty 357 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 3: standard format is that everybody's sitting there. You're expected to 358 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 3: be there ten fifteen minutes prior to the meeting store 359 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 3: and in that time you are sitting silent in this room, 360 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 3: usually in a circle. 361 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: As silence. People cannot understand. 362 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 3: Oh no, and it is an utter mystery. Yeah, most books. 363 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 3: When I was a minister, I drived is incredibly creepy because, yeah, 364 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: you'd walk into this room and here's all these people 365 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 3: sitting in a circle around a table with a clock. 366 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: Over it, always a ticking clock, and always. 367 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 3: A ticking clock, often a grandfather clock, a grandfather clock. 368 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 5: Always okay, it's giving hook. 369 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 3: Which occasionally if the elder, the man whose home the 370 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: meeting was in, had forgotten to turn it off, would 371 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: sometimes start to chime, and then that would be really 372 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: kind of set everybody out there to either do giggles 373 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 3: or horrified looks, or some mixture thereof. 374 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: We could really find anything to giggle about, and sometimes. 375 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: It would just turp the meeting for quite a while 376 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: because people would just be sitting chuckling. But yeah, they 377 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 3: forgot to turn the clock off. 378 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: We heard a clock, Yeah. 379 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, any reason for amusement, Yeah, we'll take hilarious. 380 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 3: And so then the elder would typically pipe up and 381 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: say it to saying he went to had a hymn 382 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 3: to dart And there's a very specific two by two 383 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 3: hymn book that is essentially impossible to get unless you remember. 384 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 3: You can maybe get one, but you're gonna need a 385 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: little look and some very specific search terms on eBay 386 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 3: if you're gonna win. 387 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: Wow, I want to hear the two by two songs. 388 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: I want to hear the two by two album because 389 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: I know the Mormon hymns from my childhood very boring, 390 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: very very boring. 391 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 5: Although one of them slaps. 392 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: We took songs week the two by twos took songs 393 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: some from like worldly Christian churches. But then when they 394 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: just took out any word of like grace, being saved 395 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: by grace, you know, nothing like too promising or hopeful, 396 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: so sure made them all like they're the most mind warping, 397 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: like life is fleeting. I've done this before. Life is 398 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: fleeting really was a banger that made you existentially die 399 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: each time you heard it, because it's just like nothing matters, 400 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: You're gonna die soon, why do you even care? Like 401 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: so suicidal and it's just like the depression anthem. And 402 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: then yeah, just a lot of like you have to 403 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: earn your salvation in the two by twos, which Warren 404 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: can probably say more about than I can. 405 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing matters, but salvation. That was always a h. 406 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: Nothing matter to banger. 407 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah in this world or that to come. Yes, 408 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 3: it's interesting because I loved that. I was very much 409 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: into them when in some of my darker days as 410 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: a minister, playing them on my violin was one of 411 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 3: the few comforts that I had trying desperately to get 412 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: ready for the expectation that gets upped when you join 413 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 3: the ministry of you talk younger ministers for a year 414 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 3: or two are given a little bit more leeway, but 415 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: you are going to fill twenty minutes and a half 416 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 3: hour reaching dining in front of a group of people 417 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 3: with nothing but your Bible and a microphone. 418 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 5: You're the thing you hate the most. 419 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 3: So that was kind of my introduction. I didn't do 420 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 3: I actually wouldn't take part for the first while because 421 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 3: I was just Wow. At this point is where there's expectation, 422 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 3: but there's not necessarily any written You don't sign anything 423 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 3: or anything like that that there's you will do this. 424 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: But I got talked to by my dad. Dad wanted 425 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: to know what was going on. If I understood what 426 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 3: I's dead When I stood to my feet, yeah, I understood. 427 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 3: I was scared. And then the elder of our meeting 428 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: took me aside is wow in his sixties late sixties 429 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 3: at this point and outside and asked me what was 430 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: wrong and why wasn't I taken part. So a man 431 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: that I regarded as my grandfather and in many ways, 432 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 3: and that that was one of the things that we 433 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 3: wishes being in advantage. I mean, and I still somewhat 434 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 3: consider it that way. I had five sets of grandparents 435 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 3: growing up, mm hmm, and I knew that I had 436 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 3: a safe place to go whenever wherever, almost no questions asked, 437 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 3: show up on their doorstet and you'd be brought in, 438 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 3: Your parents would be contacted. They knew who to call, 439 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 3: and so yeah, there was this this interesting power dynamic there, right, 440 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: So my grandpa is asking me and mentioning that not 441 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 3: only is he slightly disappointed for the very God of. 442 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: Heavens, oh, the very God of heaven is disappointed. 443 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 3: There's this expectation that you've made a solemn promise and 444 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 3: you're not living up to her end at the party. 445 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 3: So thus began very shakily, and something that persisted to 446 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 3: the time of me being a minister. Maybe I can 447 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 3: count on two hands a number of times I managed 448 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 3: to get a meeting without breaking down. 449 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: You managed to speak in a meeting without breaking. 450 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 3: Down without being in tears at some point. 451 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 2: And in tears of being overcome with the feeling of 452 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 2: spirituality or tears of anxiety or what kind of tears 453 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 2: were these tears? 454 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, all of the above, and feeling very deeply 455 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 3: has always been some thing and like watch a sad movie. 456 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 3: I've cried at Disney movie. 457 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 5: Well who hasn't. 458 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, But then that just became kind of 459 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: a pattern. I hated it. I still kind of do. 460 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 3: It's like I don't want to be demonstrative or dramatic. 461 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 3: The number of times I've been called dramatic it is 462 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 3: rather high, even in the in the group, and so yeah, 463 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: just sitting there and a lot of times for me 464 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: it was kind of a feeling of spirit mode of 465 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 3: being overwhelmed by just how big this thing m And 466 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 3: something that I hated and tried to push away from, 467 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 3: especially as I got older, is the doom and gloom 468 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 3: side of the church. It's like, well, it's supposed to 469 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: be about the use of the why is everyone still 470 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,719 Speaker 3: down all the time? 471 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say that your experience isn't uncommon. 472 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: Crying during the testimony and prayer was quite common. The 473 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: energy in the room is so we are so unworthy. 474 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: It makes you really sad, to be honest. 475 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: Sunday morning meeting often feels or felt to me like 476 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: a funeral mm hmmm. And so that kind of emotional energy, 477 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 3: it just permeates the room. 478 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: You're exactly right. That's the perfect explanation. 479 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 3: This feeling of we have nearly. 480 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 5: No wind, no hope. 481 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: Though if you are a part of these special chosen church, 482 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: that will save you. 483 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 3: In the end, because if you don't keep your nose clean, 484 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: you're still gonna miss it. If you are not living 485 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: Christ filled life. You can be in, but not in 486 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 3: all the way, not in enough. 487 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 5: And you're wow, even if. 488 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: You remember it be chosen elite, right, they're the this 489 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 3: statements everyone else, Catholics, Baptists, Amish, Mormons, whoever is doomed 490 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: to hell, they've been let us strap of the do 491 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: false religion exactly a large things false religion, what's true 492 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 3: and what's false? Kind of it brings in One of 493 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: the reasons why I believe I think now that vernacular 494 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 3: amongst the members is it's the truth, that is the 495 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 3: vernacular name that, once cornered by an outsider motion will 496 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 3: try desperately too about disavow or way aloud of or well, 497 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 3: of course we're I. 498 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,239 Speaker 1: Think one of the important distinctions too, to make is 499 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of this, like Christ wasn't sent to die 500 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: for our sins and magically save us. We are supposed 501 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: to use him as an example of how to live. 502 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: And if you're not living up to the standards of 503 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: how Jesus lived, who was a celibate, perfect human, you're 504 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: not gonna go to heaven. So every time you would 505 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: try to make a decision, like sometimes you'd maybe want 506 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: to go see a movie with your friends, and the 507 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: goal line is always is that where you want to 508 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: be when Jesus returns, Because if you're in a movie 509 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: theater and Jesus comes back to the earth, you're not 510 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: probably being taken to heaven. And so keeping your nose 511 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: clean and putting in air quotes, so to speak, is 512 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: what Warren said, is like very hard. That's why I 513 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: said most people develop some form of OCD because you 514 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: have to be perfect and thoughts as well. 515 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and Mormonism, like I think a lot of people, 516 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: particularly around sexuality, will become very obsessive. But otherwise, you know, 517 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 2: you're taking this sacrament every week which cleanses your sins, 518 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 2: and as long as you confess to the bishop, as 519 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: long as you're properly confessing to the bishop, but you know, 520 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: and paying your tithing and like, you get married in 521 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 2: the temple, you'll be good. You'll get to the right 522 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 2: kingdom of heaven. So it's like there's steps, but yeah, 523 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 2: it's not as doom and gloom, even though there's still 524 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: already so much guilt in that religion. So this seems 525 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: just like such another level. 526 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: It's a free for all of like a pit of despair. 527 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: Sounds fun That's why clocks are funny. 528 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, whit clocks are funny. Why a toddler doing a 529 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 3: limp fish and having to be literally dragged out of 530 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 3: the room by his father was absolutely hysterical. 531 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: Oh I've cried laughing watching a toddler drop a crown 532 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: because you just you need something. 533 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 6: Hello, I'm Robbia Chaudhry. I invite you to join me 534 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 6: every Tuesday for new episodes of Nighty Night bedtime Stories 535 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 6: to keep you awake, now on podcast one. This new 536 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 6: incarnation of Nighty Night is an anthology of stories that 537 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 6: bring to life classic horror stories, some you're definitely familiar 538 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 6: with and others that you'll be hearing for the first time. 539 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 6: Join me as I tuck you into bed with stories 540 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 6: that will leave you sleepless all night long. Get new 541 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 6: episodes of Nighty Night every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. 542 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: At what point did you start to be as we 543 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: say and the Tuba twos bothered to join the work? 544 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: When did that idea even occur to you? So? 545 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 3: I was about sixteen, and this is kind of something 546 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 3: that became part of being a workers. You're asked to 547 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 3: tell your testimony, so this is part of it. We 548 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 3: went through part of it already. When did you profess? 549 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 3: When did you make your choice? People always want to 550 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: know that. Fortunately, my grandparents were rather well known in 551 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: the region. So you're Galeen Wanda Son, aren't you. 552 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 5: Oh? 553 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 3: Yes you are. 554 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: Oh. 555 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 3: I knew your grandparents and your great grandparents, so the 556 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 3: family connections. So I was about sixteen and we had 557 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 3: this young young brother come and stay with us, and 558 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 3: I gotta stay. As a kid growing up with the workers, 559 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: very few, if any bad experience, It's nothing but happy memories. 560 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 3: When they come, it was always a big deal. It 561 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 3: was fun. He had company. A lot of times. They'd 562 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 3: read us stories, they'd play with us, they'd do Unfortunately, 563 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 3: sometimes they'd ask awkward questions and we had to sit 564 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 3: at the dinner table longer than we wanted. But so yeah, 565 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 3: I mean we're excited to give up our rooms for 566 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 3: the workers to stay, and that was a pretty big deal, 567 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 3: pretty big honor that they stayed near. So this young 568 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 3: brother came and he was just totally different. There's he was, well, 569 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 3: he's extremely quiet. We thought he would stand offish. And 570 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 3: then his older coworker had to go and deliver a boat, 571 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 3: and for some audre reason, this almost penniless minister was 572 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 3: flying or driving down to help deliver a boat to 573 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: a harbor several hours away. It wasn't going to be 574 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 3: back until late, so this young young fellow was left 575 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 3: on his own his first year in the work, and 576 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 3: we ended up telling fart jokes all night and laughing 577 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 3: ourselves to pieces and kind of the there can be 578 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 3: fun in the work. That year went on and I 579 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 3: went and asked after one of the evening meetings, So 580 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 3: convention at conventions three meetings a day, five hours a 581 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 3: day meeting, and so I went after the evening one 582 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 3: and asked, you know, can we have a visit that's 583 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: kind of your typical. 584 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: So you were kind of like convinced to be a 585 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: worker over bart jokes. So what, I'm sure that wasn't 586 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: in the testimony technically. 587 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 3: No, it'll be interesting that this particular minister ever hears it, 588 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 3: because he's still here in Washington State. Both of them are. 589 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 3: So I had started to feel that there's a reason 590 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 3: they call it bothered. 591 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: Bothered for the work. 592 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like an itch that you can't quite scratch. 593 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 3: It's like I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to 594 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 3: be doing and I'm not really sure there's something else. Well, 595 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 3: maybe it's this thing I want to go and find out. 596 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 3: So I went and asked this young brother. It was 597 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 3: a huge question and one that I was ter become 598 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,959 Speaker 3: a minister that people would ask me. What's it like 599 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 3: to be bothered about work? What's that feel like? What's 600 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 3: what gifts? Kind of? Okay, I have this feeling, let's 601 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,719 Speaker 3: see of his matches, that's what's going on here. I 602 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 3: really really hope it's not. 603 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 5: You really hope it's not. 604 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 3: I really hoped it wasn't. Yeah, No, I don't want 605 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 3: to do that. 606 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: So you have this feeling like there's something else that 607 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 2: you're supposed to do, but you don't want it to 608 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 2: be that. That's such an interesting contradiction. You tell me 609 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: how to fill this. 610 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: Cognitive dissonance at like the deepest level, because he said 611 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: it when he professed too, you know, like, I really 612 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: don't want to do this, but I know it's the 613 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,239 Speaker 1: right thing. I feel so conflicted, and I feel like 614 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: that's kind of a common feeling as well. 615 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: No, but being a worker wasn't something all men do, right, 616 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 2: That's that's a very specific decision. Yeah, So did you 617 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 2: just feel like there's something like I need to be 618 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 2: more devoted or I don't have enough meaning in my life? 619 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: Like how what do you think that it really was? 620 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 3: I'm not sure necessarily, And the only tool I had 621 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: was to interpret is maybe this is calling from God, 622 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 3: right right, right right. 623 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: I think sensitive people feel called a lot. 624 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 3: More, and I'm in trouble because I'm not doing what 625 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 3: he wants, and that's what this bothered feeling is all about. 626 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 5: Oh wow. Interesting. 627 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 3: A lot of people have talked on the X two 628 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 3: by two group and things about feeling called or hearing 629 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 3: about needs for workers, and I kind of remember that 630 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 3: one of the big things in Washington State kind of 631 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 3: petered out in other states and other areas, but the 632 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: first meeting of convention on a Wednesday night would be 633 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 3: workers from overseas, so all over the world, several from Vietnam, China, Russia, 634 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 3: all over Europe, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, 635 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 3: South America. They offered to go to these places to 636 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 3: preach the gospel, and usually in the nineties and early 637 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: two thousands, that was a five year hitch. So they'd 638 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 3: be gone for five years and then they'd come home 639 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 3: for a year. Like a lot of that was visa 640 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 3: reasons legal, so they'd come home, be home for a year. 641 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 3: And so they went. They'd go and talk about bringing gospel, 642 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 3: the gospel to people, telling the stories of how the 643 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 3: gospel came to that country. That was always a highlight. 644 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 3: Even as a kid, sitting for an hour wasn't quite 645 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: so hard in those meetings. Stories tell me a story. 646 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 3: But that's maybe as far as I can go towards 647 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 3: being told that being a worker was a good thing. 648 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 3: Of course, my folks loved the workers and posted them, 649 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 3: and my grandparents were very deput my mom's parents. So 650 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 3: I asked, this guy's what's it feel like? So he 651 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 3: kind of went through this little checklist to go, Okay, well, 652 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 3: you're going to meetings, you're taking part yep, yep, Okay, 653 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: do you feel like there's something you need to do? Yeah, well, 654 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 3: well have you been baptized yet? Well no, Well maybe 655 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 3: you think about that, because me it felt a lot 656 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 3: like when I've been moved. Yeah, so okay, maybe this 657 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 3: is a similar thing. He said. Well, one of the things, 658 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 3: the best thing that I've ever known, is that it'll 659 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 3: be time to offer for the work when you can't 660 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 3: not offer for the work. See. Thanks, thanks a lot 661 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 3: for nothing more vague and annoying advice, don't really know. 662 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 3: So okay, fine. And that was the year that I 663 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 3: met a girl high school and we started dating. Things 664 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 3: got serious really fast in the group and in our 665 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 3: family anyway, premarital sex with a huge no you do 666 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: that in your period one time, one strike year out 667 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 3: and so yeah, two young people left to their own devices. 668 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 3: Things happen, and at that point nothing had. She ended 669 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: up moving away, left, and so I was just kind 670 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 3: of in this holding pattern going to school. I loved school, 671 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 3: still do, and there's still this feeling. So two years later, 672 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 3: this girl shows up again. She met a guy online 673 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 3: and gone to Ohio, and every horror story that you 674 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 3: could imagine happening to a young lady who meets a 675 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 3: man online happened. No, save for children. She didn't have 676 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 3: any children at that point, but she'd come home and 677 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 3: we were reconnected and things got really serious then. And 678 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 3: at nineteen years old, I proposed to save that with 679 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 3: my job at Abercrombie and Fish and proposed. 680 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 5: To a girl Abercrombie and Fits. 681 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. O hateful place anyway, anyway, So eventually, yeah, things 682 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 3: moved really fast, and then she broke it off. 683 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 5: Christmas mm hmm on Christmas. 684 00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 3: With my grandparents Christmas Eve. I get this, maybe you're 685 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 3: not supposed to be together. 686 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: Oh well we don't celebrate Christmas. 687 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 5: Oh so okay, we did. 688 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 3: We were. You got to Warren partially because my granddad Dad, Yeah, 689 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 3: Christmas is right. 690 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: The worldly side of your family. I didn't have to. 691 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 3: We go and we did that not until I was 692 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 3: about nine, and so yeah, I was a wreck, totally 693 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 3: fell apart. And so then that was December. The next 694 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 3: August convention rolls around and I actually, for the first 695 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:37,479 Speaker 3: time gave my convention testimony that it was So that's 696 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 3: the same sort of thing as a Sunday morning, except 697 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 3: you get less time, and there's about seven hundred and 698 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 3: two one thousand people in the tent who are watching 699 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 3: you say your piece, listening to you. So I finally 700 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 3: got up and said, you know, kind of, yeah, girl 701 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 3: broke my heart, and I think it's a good thing. 702 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 3: I think it was the will of God that my 703 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 3: heart was broken. That's clearly not my path to be married. 704 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 3: One of the things that I justified to say get 705 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 3: rid of this itch, right, is that well, maybe it's 706 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 3: just that I'll get married and we'll have an open home. 707 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: Things will be great. And an open home means means 708 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 3: place where the workers can come and stay, So provide 709 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 3: a room for the ministers to come and stay with you. 710 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 3: So yeah, it was a good thing. And in that 711 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 3: interim time, I'd gotten baptized and then went and senn 712 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 3: with my girlfriend right afterwards. But I kind of started 713 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 3: not going to meeting, coming up with excuses not to anyway, 714 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 3: so that that brought consequences. And yeah, so it ended 715 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 3: up being this is a good thing that this girl 716 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 3: cut me loose. That same convention, not too many meetings later, 717 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 3: we did hear someone spoke about the versus R Jesus. 718 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 3: I'd come only he to become pishers of men. And 719 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 3: the only way I can explain it is that I 720 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 3: felt like a big old hal of it hook, big 721 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 3: old tremble fishing. I could ben set right behind my stirm. 722 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 3: Something jerked the line and I immediately I lasted through 723 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 3: that meeting, sobbing in my chair my bench, and ran 724 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 3: for it. I went and there's a trail out behind 725 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 3: the behind the convention grounds, and so I went and 726 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 3: took myself in the walk seven thirty Well, yeah, I've 727 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 3: been eight thirty nine pm. It's like I just I 728 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 3: got cana here and I was bargaining and bargaining with 729 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 3: everything I had with God. Yeah, no, I can't, I can't. 730 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 3: I won't have plans. And towards the end of the walk, 731 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 3: it became out well maybe maybe, but I don't really 732 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 3: want to. But if it's so, really, I'll have that 733 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 3: you'll leave me alone? 734 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: Fine, this is God will leave you alone? 735 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 3: Yeah God, okay, but that same pattern was for the 736 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 3: next three years. 737 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 2: Well, it makes sense to me that you have this 738 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: recharged or difficult encounter with a girl that you love 739 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 2: and that's you know, one of the contributing factors to 740 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: U then going on to live a celibate life where 741 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: you're really dedicated to the church and spirituality. And it's interesting. 742 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 2: It sounds like we all have this like yearning for something, right, 743 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 2: I feel like, seven times a day my brain goes 744 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 2: but there's more, but there's more, you know. But through 745 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 2: my like non religious lens, I'm like, right, that's like 746 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: what brains do we want? We always want to fill 747 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 2: it with more, And that's why you have to look, 748 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 2: you know, or like, yes, that's a lack of meaning 749 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 2: in your life. But depending on the framework, if you're 750 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 2: in the two way two religion or a similar religion, 751 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 2: maybe you feel that feeling that we all feel. And 752 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 2: I can see how you would interpret that in yourself 753 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 2: as like, oh, that must be God, that must be 754 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 2: a calling that I have, rather than this very human, 755 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 2: universal sort of experience of longing for whatever it may be. 756 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 2: I mean, whether it's you know, purpose going off and 757 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 2: doing something great, or you know, realizing your spiritual needs 758 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 2: are not met and there's a hole of some kind. 759 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 2: Whatever it is, it's something that is so human. But 760 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 2: through that lens, of course, it's going to seem like 761 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 2: God is calling you to the work or whatever. 762 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: It really does seem to affect the most sensitive people 763 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: the most. 764 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 5: Who are the most like attuned to their feelings, and 765 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 5: that totally makes sense. 766 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point because that's I mean, I 767 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 3: remember my mom giving me the Highly Sensitive Person book 768 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 3: when I was like fifteen. 769 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 5: Wow, and you might get some help from. 770 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 3: This, and yeah, that's one way this is fine to 771 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 3: keep in I started on adult and I did presence 772 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 3: when I was about ten, and that dark the only 773 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 3: way I know how to articulated. Has been part of 774 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 3: my life and a large helping of maybe not clinical 775 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 3: but close to. Yeah, OCD has been mentioned very much 776 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 3: centered around the ideas of loss of loss. Something was 777 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,320 Speaker 3: going to happen to my siblings, my parents' bomb, especially 778 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: if I wasn't there right, separation, anxiety, going to school 779 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 3: was a chore. So that was a big part of weight. 780 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 3: You want me to leave everything I've ever known, any 781 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 3: thing that I care about, and trust that it will 782 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 3: be taken care of, and I may not see my 783 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 3: parents again for months, potentially years. 784 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: So that is the end of part one with Warren. 785 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: Stay tuned for next week, where we're going to get 786 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: into more of his experience and the advice he gives 787 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: to workers currently still in the work who are questioning 788 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: wonderful stuff. Steve, do you do you want to ask 789 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: me a question like. 790 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:44,439 Speaker 5: Lola usually does. 791 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 4: I would love to ask you a ques you would do? 792 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: Okay, what is it? 793 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 4: Had you ever thought about being a worker in the 794 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 4: two by twos when you remember? 795 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: I remember being in middle school when I heard for 796 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: the first time my mom or my dad or somebody 797 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: being like the highest calling we think for people's life 798 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: is to go into the work. And I was like, 799 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: then why and the f am I in this intense 800 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: school learning math that I hate, Like, let's get me 801 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: in there, you know. But that was just because I 802 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: hated school so much. 803 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 3: I think. 804 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 4: I don't think I realized until this episode that there 805 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 4: were female workers. 806 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 807 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,479 Speaker 1: There was a really fun moment in my life where 808 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: three of them were resting. I'm using that in clothes 809 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: because kind of a two by two term where you 810 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: know they're they're like not actively in the work, but 811 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: they're not not. There was like a couple of years 812 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: where a few female workers who are resting it's a 813 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: term where you're not technically out of the work, yet 814 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: you're not in a field working doing the job. They 815 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: stayed with us and it was the most fun ever, 816 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,240 Speaker 1: Like we just it was just like a summer party. 817 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like there were fun moments that you 818 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 4: had with the work. 819 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: You know, some of them were great. Some of them 820 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: are the best memories of my life. Like that is 821 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: the problem. So trying to untangle a lot of stuff. 822 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: I know it's complicated and it's hard for people to 823 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: get their heads around, but that's it's the truth. So 824 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: we got to know both sides. 825 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 4: You know what I mean, Steve, I do know what 826 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 4: you mean. 827 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 5: Megan know what I mean. 828 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,359 Speaker 1: I know you know. Okay, thank you so much for 829 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: listening to us. Come join us next week where we 830 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: get more into his story and as always, remember to 831 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: follow your bet, watch out for Red Blagg and never 832 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: ever trust Me Bye. 833 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and 834 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 2: Steve Delemator. 835 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para. 836 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 5: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church. 837 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast, 838 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me cult pod, or on TikTok At 839 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: Trust Me Cult Podcast. 840 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,439 Speaker 5: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter. 841 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham 842 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter. 843 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 5: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.