WEBVTT - #070 Jason Flom with Susan King 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:03.400 I've never been in trouble in my life. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.040 I didn't even have a parking ticket, you know what 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:05.360 I mean. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.960 I was brought up like cops are the good guys. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:11.640 I didn't know what was going to happen, but I 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.760 do know that everything was stacked against me. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.320 Everything like everything. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.840 This isn't supposed to happen this way. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.800 I'm innocent. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.360 I know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.760 do with this. How is this possible? I grew up 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.760 trusting the systems. I grew up believing that every human 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.560 being should do the right thing. And that's why, even 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.360 though I knew I was dealing with corerough people, I 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.479 wasn't going to break anyone to get me out of 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.199 prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that I 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.120 break my way out of my wife's death. I'm not innocent, 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.440 too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove my innocence. 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.120 And that's absolutely what happened to me. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:51.839 Our system. 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:53.479 Since I've been out ten years, it has come a 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.480 little ways, but it's still broken. 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.480 I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to me. 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:20.399 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.440 Jason Foum. That's me. I'm your host, and today I 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:28.480 have an absolutely unbelievable story and an incredible person to 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.560 share that story with you. Susan King is here. Susan, 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:32.920 Welcome to wrongful conviction. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:35.160 Thank you, good to be here. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.240 And like I always say, I'm glad you're here, but 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.680 I'm sorry you're here. So thank you, Susan. Ever since 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.200 I read your story, which must be a year and 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:49.320 a half ago, I was transfixed because even having been 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.560 in this movement for twenty five years now and having 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:58.440 recorded seventy episodes of the podcast, your story sticks out 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:06.040 in many ways. It's so absolutely insane that I find 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.079 myself telling the story to other people and going that 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:11.720 can't be true. But I know it is you and 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:17.000 you actually had to live it well. She served six 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.000 years behind the bars after a Kentucky State Police investigator 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.640 said she killed a man. Then in twenty twelve, someone 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.399 else confessed to the crime, and now two years later, 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.320 the case against Susan Jean King is finally dismissed. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.440 King spent years in prison for what they call raisen 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.280 misconduct by Kentucky State Police. It comes after King served 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.720 six and a half years in prison for the nineteen 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.079 ninety eight death of Kyle Demi Breeden of Shelbyville. The 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.519 Kentucky Innocence Project told the court. When the Kentucky State 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.880 Police case went cold after a few years, Trooper Todd 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.440 Harwood picked it up. Eighteen days later, he said he 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.000 broke the case, naming King as the killer. He said 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.400 King threw Breden's body into the Kentucky River after a 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:04.080 domestics fut The only problem King has one leg and 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.480 weighed less than one hundred pounds at the time. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.600 So let's go back to the beginning. You grew up 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.079 in Were you born in Kentucky? 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.880 Yes? Uh huh was back in nineteen sixty. That was 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:17.920 a long time ago. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.280 We're almost the same age. What what part of Kentucky 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:21.840 were you born in? 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.400 I was born in Shelbyville, that's all half an hour 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:26.120 from Louisville. 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.200 And how was your childhood? 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.320 Oh, I was raised a little country girl. So I've 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.960 spent my time fishing and playing with chaos all that. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.480 So it sounds like this hearing the Tony your voice, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:43.520 you had you had a happy childhood. Yeah, and then 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.720 ultimately you where did you grow up. Where did did 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.360 you go to? Where did you where you go to school? 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:52.119 Where'd you end up living? Before all this insanity came 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:53.400 to pass, Well. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.800 Before all this, I had my own beauty shop. I 0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:00.120 was a tusantologist. I had my own home and a 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.480 house and six and high bakers with a barn and 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.440 all my animals and my dogs and horse and everything. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:12.600 Was enjoying life. And and suddenly one day Todd Harwood 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.240 appeared and ruined it all. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.640 Oh, he certainly did. And the way that he did 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.320 it is beyond I think people are going to be 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.120 Anyone who's listing now, fasten your seatbelt, because when you 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:28.760 hear the level of evil, of pure evil, that this 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:35.960 individual was capable of, it is absolutely shocking, even even 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:37.840 to people that are loyal listeners of the podcast. You're 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.640 going to be here in for a crazy ride. So, 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.120 but Susan, you had you had a tragedy upon a 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:49.279 tragedy because back in nineteen ninety three your life took 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:50.120 a terrible turn. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.680 Yeah, that's not accident, and that and that's. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.440 And that turns out to be an important part of 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:57.120 the story. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.279 And how you're wrong when you only have one leg, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.280 I mean you can't go around listing people two hundred 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.520 pounds and stuff like they say, right. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.360 And we're going to get to that because that's one 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.160 of the things about the story that is just I mean, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.320 even if you had two legs, the story never would 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.960 have made any sense. But that particular aspect of it 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:21.039 makes it go from the ridiculous to the surrepossible, to 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.320 the impossible right to the surreal impossible, whatever word you 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.680 want to whatever or you want to describe. So fast 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:31.360 forward to nineteen ninety eight, right, and you had been 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.039 in a relationship, if I'm not mistaken, right, with a 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.520 guy named Kyle Breeden. And this was was this an 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.120 on again, off again type of thing? 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:46.279 Well, yeah, sort of, yes, on and off. He lived 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.440 a little rougher life and I can handle that's putting 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:50.039 it nicely. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:56.480 And one day he disappeared, right, yes, and just so 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.320 it was gone. And then ten days later we know 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.400 now his body was found by a fisherman in the 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.680 Kentucky River, right, And he had been shot in the 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.880 head twice, but twenty two caliber bullets which did not 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.200 exit the skull, which is important because they were able 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.880 to be found. That's very important, right, So that there 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.000 were non exiting bullets, and his legs were bound with 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:24.680 guitar amplifier cord, so he was This is obviously a 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.799 brutal crime. He was shot twice in the head, bound 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.080 with guitar a fire cord, like I said, and then 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.440 lifted up. The killer parked on the Gratz bridge and 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.440 then hoisted him. And he wasn't a small guy, right, No, 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.360 he wasn't. About two hundred pounds. So the killer hoisted 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:47.040 him over the railing and threw him down or dropped 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.520 him down into the Kentucky River where he was found. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.400 Oh wow, so it was two hundred pounds plus the 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.960 concrete blocks. Okay, wow, this guy went to some trouble 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.600 to do it. So we're going to get all of that. 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:06.080 But what has absolutely transfixed me about this case is 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.240 the idea and we know we'll get you know, I'm 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.320 gonna jump ahead and we'll come back, but the idea 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.680 that anybody on a grand jury or anywhere else in 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:21.160 the system could have been made to believe that a 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:26.520 woman who barely weighed one hundred pounds, which is you 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:33.600 could have which was this horrible detective's theory, right, that 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.800 you would have shot him in the head in your kitchen, 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.320 dragged him out down the driveway. Do you have a 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.000 gravel driveway to read that somewhere? 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:40.560 Yes? 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.680 Right, So we are to believe that you one hundred 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.760 pound woman, if you even weighed that much with one leg, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:53.040 somehow or other, were able to shoot this guy twice, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.920 drag him through the kitchen, down the gravel driveway, hoist 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.600 him into the car, drive to the bridge, tie blocks 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.440 to him, bind him. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.080 Not to interrupted. But I didn't even have a car. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.960 Oh my god, oh my god. I need a minute. 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:12.600 I can't even process. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:13.560 I don't know what to think. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:14.400 Nothing. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.320 I didn't have a car or a tractor. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.840 Yeah, the tractor, okay, so wow? And then uh yeah, 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:27.440 so you drove the invisible car, the imaginary car to 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:32.400 the Gratz bridge and then hoisted this uh after winding 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.120 him with the ample part cord and tying concrete blocks 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:40.440 to him, you managed to hoist this entire crazy like, 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:46.560 I mean, this, this person, with all these contraptions, there's 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.120 two hundred and something pound object which is now a 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.280 dead body up over a railing. How high was the railing, 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.160 by the way, I don't know. 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.600 I had stayed away from that area for obvious reasons, 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.840 and I really don't know how how that regularly, Well. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.840 It doesn't much matter because none of it makes any sense. 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:10.680 So the whole thing is obviously just beyond ridiculous, is disgusting. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.679 It's well, you think that you can trust the cops, 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.960 and that's that's the wrong. You can't trust one anymore. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.440 You know, there are some good coops. I'll go a 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.319 couple of good tops, but boy, I'll tell you what, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.480 that one really makes the whole department look bad. 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.440 I'm glad you said that, Susan, because I say that 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.959 on the show often that I'm a person who does 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.760 believe in a system of laws, and I believe that 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:37.040 there are a lot of good cops, and there are 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:38.800 a lot of good prosecutors, but there's a lot of 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:40.920 bad ones too, and the bad ones do a terrible 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.360 amount of damage. And in your case, it couldn't be 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:49.199 more pronounced because of the way in which this was done. 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:54.160 You know, in this case, going back to the time 0:09:54.400 --> 0:10:01.719 in nineteen ninety eight, they originally tried to attain a 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.320 search warrant and to search your premises and stuff like that, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.560 but they were unable to because there was no evidence 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.959 that you. It was what was painfully obviously everyone concerned 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.400 that you could not have done this. So they everyone 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.880 actually took a common sensical approach and said, okay, well 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.400 let's keep looking for who did. And the trail went cold. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.720 Right, Well, they definitely didn't. They didn't start any further 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.160 than just me. I don't think they didn't try very 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.880 hard anyway. Now, the first good despective when they started 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:41.160 with Pile's body was first found. They were pretty decent cops. 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.440 They did their job. They were very thorough. They scared 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.960 me death, so they did their job right. They decided 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.480 that I didn't have anything to do with it. In 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.480 my interview I did on the uh the IV channel 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.040 investigation Discovery Town. 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:58.719 No, I didn't even know about it. I'm going to 0:10:58.760 --> 0:10:59.520 watch it for sure. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.320 Yeah, they did a show on it, and they did 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.320 a real good job. And you know, I'm on TV 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.480 right now. You are that show. You know, it's on 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.000 channel fifty right now. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:10.760 That's amazing channel. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.120 Right now we speak, you're all. 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.600 Over the place. You're on TV, in the radio. Yeah, 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.200 I'm excited to see that. So you were saying that 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:27.280 the initial investigation, you thought they they were tell me 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.080 about that they came to see you, they intimidated you 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.200 a little bit, or how did that work? 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.080 They greed me real good. That put me through a launch. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.360 So that's what I say. They did their job. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.719 But they came to the correct conclusion at first, and 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.559 they you know, who are somebody came to the right 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.360 answer and said, you know, we're not going to grant 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.640 a search work. We're not going to indict her. We're 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.160 going to have to keep looking because she ate the 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:56.760 one that's right. And you went on with years. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.000 Went by with it being a code case for years. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.040 Right, and that's where stuff really gets crazy. Right. So 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.400 now enters the villain in this story, and villain is 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.800 too kind of a word actually, because we have to 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.040 clean it up. Uh yeah, And you're allowed to curse 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.240 on this show if you want to. There's no problem 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.440 at all with that, and I wouldn't blame. 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.240 It's hard to discuss this without it. 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.560 You can do as you see fit. So along comes 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:35.520 this sack of ship named Todd Harwood, and he's a 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:40.079 real short guy, A real short guy, was okay. So 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.240 he comes into town and he's a state he's a 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.080 state police officer. He's he's new on the job right 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.280 just rolled into town, decided this this might be good 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.320 for his seems to me, I don't know this, but 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.520 it seems to me he might have thought this might 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:55.920 be good for his career. 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:02.040 If he is after a they had received a grant 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:07.120 for a co cases and that's what he's addicted. Was 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.800 what he wanted to be and that's what he got. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.960 And was this sort of a high profile case in 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:13.880 the area. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.680 Oh very much so. I've been on the page the 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.920 type of many many times. 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.360 Right, So his thing was, Okay, I'm going to go 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.680 make my name. I'm speculating, but I'm gonna say he 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.320 was thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea for him 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.480 in his career if he could go and solve this case. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.320 So when did you first find out that this guy 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.079 was around and that he was had had you and 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.600 the crosshairs? How did that come to be? Because we're 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.920 talking seven years later, you had probably had moved on 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.800 and you know, trying to make the best out of 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.559 your life. It's facing the difficulties that you're already faced 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.840 and having lost you know this. I mean, obviously this 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.959 must have been pretty traumatic too to lose somebody that 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.120 you'd had in a relationship with in such a violent manner. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.720 But how did you come to find out that this 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.719 guy was coming after you? 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.760 Well, at first I didn't know he was really coming 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.640 and asked you means like he did. I just thought 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:12.439 he needed some information, you know, because I had understood 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.760 that he was investigating the cold case. And you know, 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.720 I'm glad that they were, and I was willing to 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.680 help him anyway I could. But he turned on me 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.160 like a snake and started riding and oh he scared 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.239 me so bad and so many times, yelling and screaming 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.760 and riding me around in his car like a crazy person, 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.200 going real fast and slamming on the brakes, and he 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.240 scared me death that day. I thought he was going 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:38.720 to kill me. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.200 Wow, I didn't even know that part of the story. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.160 This gets crazier and crazieri. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.720 He is. It's not right at all. And he was 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.160 wet and profusely and pacing back and forth and talking 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:54.640 real fast, and he wasn't normal at all. I don't 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.840 know what was making him act that way, but nothing. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.640 Was well we can't know that and I never will, 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.160 but the fact is that he was. He's obviously off 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.880 his rocker. But whatever the reasons were for that, again, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:18.720 we don't know. One of the million crazy aspects of 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.800 this thing is how he was able to convince the 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.120 grand jury to indict you in the first place, and 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.040 how he was even able to get a search warrant. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.520 And then the sheer volume of lies that he told 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:36.920 is staggering lies that were demonstrably provably false. Right, I mean, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.920 he lied about literally everything, but. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.760 He didn't even tell the grand jury. I head on 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.120 one leg he left that poor day out. 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.840 Yeah, and I think when I died. 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.680 They would ever does a search warrant if he had 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.000 top Well, of. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.880 Course not, because nobody's that dumb, right, nobody could believe. 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.760 And this is why I've told you your story many 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.720 many times. It actually took me a while to find you, 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.080 but I've told your story so many times ever since 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.320 I first read about it in the Marshall Project actually, 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.359 which is a wonderful newsletter that I read that focuses 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.880 on all the most important stories in criminal justice, and 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.920 you get it emailed to you for free every day 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.240 if you want it. It's called the Marshall Projects. Ever 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.640 since I read that, I was I have to I 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.720 have to interview Susan. I have to get inside of 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.040 this and try to understand it, because it just doesn't 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.920 make any damn sense. So somehow or other, he manages 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.440 to convince the you know, the powers that be to 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.040 grant a search. Warrant comes and searches your house, finds 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.400 out there's a couple of old bullet holes in the 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.840 in the floor something like that, right, But none of 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.360 that shouldn't have mattered because it didn't match the bullets 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:56.560 that they recovered from the dead body. But that didn't 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.240 throw them off. And you know, and then it and 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:06.520 then he and what happens from your perspective, what happened? 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.560 When did you get the call? How did you find 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.919 out that you were actually being indicted? And then how 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.480 did you find this horrible lawyer that you ended up with? 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.280 And I need to know everything. 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.320 Well, I didn't know he was coming to arrist me. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.399 He threatened to several times. At that point, I didn't 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.400 not to believe anything he said. He said. He I'm like, sure, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.200 I got the electric chair? Now, what's that's what say it? 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.280 I knew did this guy just lying? He's crazy? 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.760 So he's threatening you with the electric chair? He told the. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.440 Great electric chair years. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.439 I mean, among the other lies that he told, he 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.720 said there were four bullet holes in the kitchen floor 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.359 and drag marks on the linoleum. None of that was true. 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.720 He told the grand jury that ballistics analysis showed the 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.840 two bullets recovered from the floor Saint came from the 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.920 same weapon that fired the bullets that killed breeding. That 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.000 wasn't true, it right. And he said that blood found 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.399 on the floor was from Breeden, where the DNA analysis 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.240 proved that in fact it could. They had no idea 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.320 who it was from. But he lied about all. 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.919 That animal vegetablear mare and mineral. It's what they told me. 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.960 Animal vegetablear mineral. That wasn't sure which. 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.200 And not only that, but the ballistics analysis actually showed 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.600 the opposite of what he claimed, right, that the bullets 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.159 did not match, and that the police knew that the 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.280 water damage to the floor in your kitchen caused the 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:34.440 markings that Hardwood said were drag marks. So Hardwood I. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.720 Had thrief of all that. People that did all that 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.080 retire to my house after a flood, and I mean, 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.960 you cothing now this happened in Misking Flower. 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.920 That though, and we're not done with the lies because 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.159 you also claimed that you had used cleaning fluid to 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.800 clean up the UH to clean up the evidence, when 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.439 the investigation showed that there was there was no cleaning 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:05.080 fluid or cleaning chemicals of any kind. And in fact, 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.800 at some point, what I do know is that the 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:11.440 grand jury investigations, any investigation, two different jurors asked him 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.040 how you had been able to shoot breeding and move 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.000 his body despite only having one leg and weighing, as 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.720 we said, ninety seven pounds, and he just didn't answer 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.520 those questions. So had he of course that would be 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.000 the end of that. So okay, So now you end 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:30.280 up having your home taken over various times for these 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.000 searches to take place. When did you get a lawyer out? 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.840 I always them, you know, I always let them in 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.440 and try to answer all their questions and help them 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:42.360 in and to. 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:45.920 Like a citizen would, because you wanted to have this 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.360 crime sol Nobody wants to have a killer around their neighborhood. 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.919 And also any any person who's got any sort of 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.840 conscience would want to help. Anybody would want to help 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.879 the police. But I think it's important for people to 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.880 know and listen to you. Hopefully they'll they'll they'll understand 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.440 what I try to drive home all the time, which 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.800 is that if you're if they're telling you you're a suspect, 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:08.800 you need to get a lawyer and then stop talking 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.320 and don't talk. Don't speak outside the presence of your 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.760 lawyer because they'll trick you into all sorts of stuff. 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.440 But in your case, your lawyer didn't help at all. 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.919 And let's talk about that. How did you find this lawyer? 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:23.600 Who was it in the phone? 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:27.159 Her name is red Becca Morrell? 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.479 And where did where did she come from? She is? 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:39.480 Uh, he was a court appointed attorney from Shepherdsville, Kentucky. 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.560 I've never heard of her besolo, but that's who they 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.399 appointed from my lawyers, and they may as well and 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.639 have appointed my dog to be the lawyer. Wow, it 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:51.480 would have been better. 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:52.440 Wow. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.920 She she told she came to jail a couple of 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.840 times to talk to me, and she said, frankly, I 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.280 don't believe he either. So I was danged. 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.240 I mean, it's unimaginable. She that's got to be a 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:14.119 violation of of all sorts of I think, yeah, I 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.399 mean it's I mean, it's I was gonna say I've 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:18.280 never heard of anything like this. 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.040 She stood down to the judge and told the judge, Hey, 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.600 you need to get her somebody else. She didn't do that. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:27.919 No, she she worked. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.520 With She worked with the prosecutor, and she worked with 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.000 the officers. Uh. 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:38.600 And that, yeah, she literally sold you down the river. 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:42.520 And and and it's similar to if anyone saw making a murderer, 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.760 which a lot of people did that are listeners. They've 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.520 seen a similar situation in the case of Brendan Dacy, 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.480 where his one of his team was literally just a 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.240 just an extension of the the prosecutors and the police. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:02.040 Is so disgusting and sad to watch. And your situation 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.600 is really not much different. So now here you are, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:09.040 you're in jail, everything's closing in on you. You're facing 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:14.960 all this different hardship in every way. I mean, I 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.520 read what you said about your dog as well, and 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.600 it broke my heart on top of everything else. I mean, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:24.439