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Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even have a parking ticket, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: I was brought up like cops are the good guys.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I

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Speaker 3: do know that everything was stacked against me.

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Speaker 4: Everything like everything.

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Speaker 1: This isn't supposed to happen this way.

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Speaker 3: I'm innocent.

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Speaker 4: I know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to

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Speaker 4: do with this. How is this possible? I grew up

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Speaker 4: trusting the systems. I grew up believing that every human

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Speaker 4: being should do the right thing. And that's why, even

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Speaker 4: though I knew I was dealing with corerough people, I

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Speaker 4: wasn't going to break anyone to get me out of

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Speaker 4: prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that I

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Speaker 4: break my way out of my wife's death. I'm not innocent,

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Speaker 4: too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove my innocence.

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Speaker 4: And that's absolutely what happened to me.

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Speaker 5: Our system.

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Speaker 2: Since I've been out ten years, it has come a

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Speaker 2: little ways, but it's still broken.

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Speaker 4: I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to me.

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Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with

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Speaker 1: Jason Foum. That's me. I'm your host, and today I

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Speaker 1: have an absolutely unbelievable story and an incredible person to

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Speaker 1: share that story with you. Susan King is here. Susan,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, good to be here.

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Speaker 1: And like I always say, I'm glad you're here, but

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here. So thank you, Susan. Ever since

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Speaker 1: I read your story, which must be a year and

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Speaker 1: a half ago, I was transfixed because even having been

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Speaker 1: in this movement for twenty five years now and having

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Speaker 1: recorded seventy episodes of the podcast, your story sticks out

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Speaker 1: in many ways. It's so absolutely insane that I find

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Speaker 1: myself telling the story to other people and going that

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Speaker 1: can't be true. But I know it is you and

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Speaker 1: you actually had to live it well. She served six

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Speaker 1: years behind the bars after a Kentucky State Police investigator

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Speaker 1: said she killed a man. Then in twenty twelve, someone

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Speaker 1: else confessed to the crime, and now two years later,

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Speaker 1: the case against Susan Jean King is finally dismissed.

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Speaker 3: King spent years in prison for what they call raisen

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Speaker 3: misconduct by Kentucky State Police. It comes after King served

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Speaker 3: six and a half years in prison for the nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety eight death of Kyle Demi Breeden of Shelbyville. The

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Speaker 3: Kentucky Innocence Project told the court. When the Kentucky State

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Speaker 3: Police case went cold after a few years, Trooper Todd

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Speaker 3: Harwood picked it up. Eighteen days later, he said he

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Speaker 3: broke the case, naming King as the killer. He said

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Speaker 3: King threw Breden's body into the Kentucky River after a

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Speaker 3: domestics fut The only problem King has one leg and

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Speaker 3: weighed less than one hundred pounds at the time.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back to the beginning. You grew up

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Speaker 1: in Were you born in Kentucky?

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Speaker 5: Yes? Uh huh was back in nineteen sixty. That was

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Speaker 5: a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: We're almost the same age. What what part of Kentucky

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Speaker 1: were you born in?

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Speaker 5: I was born in Shelbyville, that's all half an hour

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Speaker 5: from Louisville.

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Speaker 1: And how was your childhood?

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Speaker 5: Oh, I was raised a little country girl. So I've

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Speaker 5: spent my time fishing and playing with chaos all that.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like this hearing the Tony your voice,

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Speaker 1: you had you had a happy childhood. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: ultimately you where did you grow up. Where did did

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Speaker 1: you go to? Where did you where you go to school?

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Speaker 1: Where'd you end up living? Before all this insanity came

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Speaker 1: to pass, Well.

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Speaker 5: Before all this, I had my own beauty shop. I

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Speaker 5: was a tusantologist. I had my own home and a

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Speaker 5: house and six and high bakers with a barn and

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Speaker 5: all my animals and my dogs and horse and everything.

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Speaker 5: Was enjoying life. And and suddenly one day Todd Harwood

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Speaker 5: appeared and ruined it all.

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Speaker 1: Oh, he certainly did. And the way that he did

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Speaker 1: it is beyond I think people are going to be

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Speaker 1: Anyone who's listing now, fasten your seatbelt, because when you

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Speaker 1: hear the level of evil, of pure evil, that this

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Speaker 1: individual was capable of, it is absolutely shocking, even even

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Speaker 1: to people that are loyal listeners of the podcast. You're

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Speaker 1: going to be here in for a crazy ride. So,

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Speaker 1: but Susan, you had you had a tragedy upon a

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Speaker 1: tragedy because back in nineteen ninety three your life took

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Speaker 1: a terrible turn.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's not accident, and that and that's.

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Speaker 1: And that turns out to be an important part of

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Speaker 1: the story.

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Speaker 5: And how you're wrong when you only have one leg,

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Speaker 5: I mean you can't go around listing people two hundred

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Speaker 5: pounds and stuff like they say, right.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to get to that because that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things about the story that is just I mean,

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Speaker 1: even if you had two legs, the story never would

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Speaker 1: have made any sense. But that particular aspect of it

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Speaker 1: makes it go from the ridiculous to the surrepossible, to

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Speaker 1: the impossible right to the surreal impossible, whatever word you

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Speaker 1: want to whatever or you want to describe. So fast

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Speaker 1: forward to nineteen ninety eight, right, and you had been

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Speaker 1: in a relationship, if I'm not mistaken, right, with a

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Speaker 1: guy named Kyle Breeden. And this was was this an

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Speaker 1: on again, off again type of thing?

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, sort of, yes, on and off. He lived

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Speaker 5: a little rougher life and I can handle that's putting

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Speaker 5: it nicely.

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Speaker 1: And one day he disappeared, right, yes, and just so

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Speaker 1: it was gone. And then ten days later we know

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Speaker 1: now his body was found by a fisherman in the

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Speaker 1: Kentucky River, right, And he had been shot in the

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Speaker 1: head twice, but twenty two caliber bullets which did not

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Speaker 1: exit the skull, which is important because they were able

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Speaker 1: to be found. That's very important, right, So that there

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Speaker 1: were non exiting bullets, and his legs were bound with

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Speaker 1: guitar amplifier cord, so he was This is obviously a

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Speaker 1: brutal crime. He was shot twice in the head, bound

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Speaker 1: with guitar a fire cord, like I said, and then

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Speaker 1: lifted up. The killer parked on the Gratz bridge and

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Speaker 1: then hoisted him. And he wasn't a small guy, right, No,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't. About two hundred pounds. So the killer hoisted

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Speaker 1: him over the railing and threw him down or dropped

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Speaker 1: him down into the Kentucky River where he was found.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, so it was two hundred pounds plus the

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Speaker 1: concrete blocks. Okay, wow, this guy went to some trouble

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Speaker 1: to do it. So we're going to get all of that.

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Speaker 1: But what has absolutely transfixed me about this case is

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Speaker 1: the idea and we know we'll get you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna jump ahead and we'll come back, but the idea

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Speaker 1: that anybody on a grand jury or anywhere else in

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Speaker 1: the system could have been made to believe that a

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Speaker 1: woman who barely weighed one hundred pounds, which is you

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Speaker 1: could have which was this horrible detective's theory, right, that

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Speaker 1: you would have shot him in the head in your kitchen,

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Speaker 1: dragged him out down the driveway. Do you have a

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Speaker 1: gravel driveway to read that somewhere?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Right, So we are to believe that you one hundred

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Speaker 1: pound woman, if you even weighed that much with one leg,

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Speaker 1: somehow or other, were able to shoot this guy twice,

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Speaker 1: drag him through the kitchen, down the gravel driveway, hoist

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Speaker 1: him into the car, drive to the bridge, tie blocks

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Speaker 1: to him, bind him.

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Speaker 5: Not to interrupted. But I didn't even have a car.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh my god. I need a minute.

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Speaker 1: I can't even process.

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Speaker 5: I don't know what to think.

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Speaker 1: Nothing.

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Speaker 5: I didn't have a car or a tractor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the tractor, okay, so wow? And then uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you drove the invisible car, the imaginary car to

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Speaker 1: the Gratz bridge and then hoisted this uh after winding

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Speaker 1: him with the ample part cord and tying concrete blocks

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Speaker 1: to him, you managed to hoist this entire crazy like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this, this person, with all these contraptions, there's

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Speaker 1: two hundred and something pound object which is now a

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Speaker 1: dead body up over a railing. How high was the railing,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I had stayed away from that area for obvious reasons,

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Speaker 5: and I really don't know how how that regularly, Well.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't much matter because none of it makes any sense.

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Speaker 1: So the whole thing is obviously just beyond ridiculous, is disgusting.

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Speaker 5: It's well, you think that you can trust the cops,

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Speaker 5: and that's that's the wrong. You can't trust one anymore.

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Speaker 5: You know, there are some good coops. I'll go a

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Speaker 5: couple of good tops, but boy, I'll tell you what,

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Speaker 5: that one really makes the whole department look bad.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, Susan, because I say that

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Speaker 1: on the show often that I'm a person who does

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Speaker 1: believe in a system of laws, and I believe that

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of good cops, and there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of good prosecutors, but there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: bad ones too, and the bad ones do a terrible

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Speaker 1: amount of damage. And in your case, it couldn't be

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Speaker 1: more pronounced because of the way in which this was done.

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Speaker 1: You know, in this case, going back to the time

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, they originally tried to attain a

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Speaker 1: search warrant and to search your premises and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: but they were unable to because there was no evidence

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Speaker 1: that you. It was what was painfully obviously everyone concerned

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Speaker 1: that you could not have done this. So they everyone

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Speaker 1: actually took a common sensical approach and said, okay, well

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Speaker 1: let's keep looking for who did. And the trail went cold.

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Speaker 5: Right, Well, they definitely didn't. They didn't start any further

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Speaker 5: than just me. I don't think they didn't try very

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Speaker 5: hard anyway. Now, the first good despective when they started

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Speaker 5: with Pile's body was first found. They were pretty decent cops.

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Speaker 5: They did their job. They were very thorough. They scared

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Speaker 5: me death, so they did their job right. They decided

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Speaker 5: that I didn't have anything to do with it. In

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Speaker 5: my interview I did on the uh the IV channel

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Speaker 5: investigation Discovery Town.

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't even know about it. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: watch it for sure.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they did a show on it, and they did

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Speaker 5: a real good job. And you know, I'm on TV

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Speaker 5: right now. You are that show. You know, it's on

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Speaker 5: channel fifty right now.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing channel.

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Speaker 5: Right now we speak, you're all.

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Speaker 1: Over the place. You're on TV, in the radio. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to see that. So you were saying that

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Speaker 1: the initial investigation, you thought they they were tell me

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Speaker 1: about that they came to see you, they intimidated you

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Speaker 1: a little bit, or how did that work?

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Speaker 5: They greed me real good. That put me through a launch.

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Speaker 5: So that's what I say. They did their job.

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Speaker 1: But they came to the correct conclusion at first, and

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Speaker 1: they you know, who are somebody came to the right

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Speaker 1: answer and said, you know, we're not going to grant

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Speaker 1: a search work. We're not going to indict her. We're

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Speaker 1: going to have to keep looking because she ate the

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Speaker 1: one that's right. And you went on with years.

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Speaker 5: Went by with it being a code case for years.

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Speaker 1: Right, and that's where stuff really gets crazy. Right. So

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Speaker 1: now enters the villain in this story, and villain is

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Speaker 1: too kind of a word actually, because we have to

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Speaker 1: clean it up. Uh yeah, And you're allowed to curse

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Speaker 1: on this show if you want to. There's no problem

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Speaker 1: at all with that, and I wouldn't blame.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to discuss this without it.

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Speaker 1: You can do as you see fit. So along comes

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Speaker 1: this sack of ship named Todd Harwood, and he's a

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Speaker 1: real short guy, A real short guy, was okay. So

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Speaker 1: he comes into town and he's a state he's a

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Speaker 1: state police officer. He's he's new on the job right

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Speaker 1: just rolled into town, decided this this might be good

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Speaker 1: for his seems to me, I don't know this, but

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Speaker 1: it seems to me he might have thought this might

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Speaker 1: be good for his career.

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Speaker 5: If he is after a they had received a grant

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Speaker 5: for a co cases and that's what he's addicted. Was

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Speaker 5: what he wanted to be and that's what he got.

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Speaker 1: And was this sort of a high profile case in

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Speaker 1: the area.

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Speaker 5: Oh very much so. I've been on the page the

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Speaker 5: type of many many times.

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Speaker 1: Right, So his thing was, Okay, I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: make my name. I'm speculating, but I'm gonna say he

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Speaker 1: was thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea for him

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Speaker 1: in his career if he could go and solve this case.

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Speaker 1: So when did you first find out that this guy

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Speaker 1: was around and that he was had had you and

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Speaker 1: the crosshairs? How did that come to be? Because we're

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Speaker 1: talking seven years later, you had probably had moved on

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Speaker 1: and you know, trying to make the best out of

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Speaker 1: your life. It's facing the difficulties that you're already faced

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Speaker 1: and having lost you know this. I mean, obviously this

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Speaker 1: must have been pretty traumatic too to lose somebody that

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Speaker 1: you'd had in a relationship with in such a violent manner.

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Speaker 1: But how did you come to find out that this

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Speaker 1: guy was coming after you?

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Speaker 5: Well, at first I didn't know he was really coming

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Speaker 5: and asked you means like he did. I just thought

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Speaker 5: he needed some information, you know, because I had understood

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Speaker 5: that he was investigating the cold case. And you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm glad that they were, and I was willing to

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Speaker 5: help him anyway I could. But he turned on me

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Speaker 5: like a snake and started riding and oh he scared

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Speaker 5: me so bad and so many times, yelling and screaming

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Speaker 5: and riding me around in his car like a crazy person,

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Speaker 5: going real fast and slamming on the brakes, and he

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Speaker 5: scared me death that day. I thought he was going

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Speaker 5: to kill me.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't even know that part of the story.

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Speaker 1: This gets crazier and crazieri.

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Speaker 5: He is. It's not right at all. And he was

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Speaker 5: wet and profusely and pacing back and forth and talking

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Speaker 5: real fast, and he wasn't normal at all. I don't

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Speaker 5: know what was making him act that way, but nothing.

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Speaker 1: Was well we can't know that and I never will,

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Speaker 1: but the fact is that he was. He's obviously off

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Speaker 1: his rocker. But whatever the reasons were for that, again,

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Speaker 1: we don't know. One of the million crazy aspects of

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Speaker 1: this thing is how he was able to convince the

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Speaker 1: grand jury to indict you in the first place, and

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Speaker 1: how he was even able to get a search warrant.

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Speaker 1: And then the sheer volume of lies that he told

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Speaker 1: is staggering lies that were demonstrably provably false. Right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he lied about literally everything, but.

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Speaker 5: He didn't even tell the grand jury. I head on

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Speaker 5: one leg he left that poor day out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think when I died.

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Speaker 5: They would ever does a search warrant if he had

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Speaker 5: top Well, of.

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Speaker 1: Course not, because nobody's that dumb, right, nobody could believe.

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Speaker 1: And this is why I've told you your story many

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Speaker 1: many times. It actually took me a while to find you,

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Speaker 1: but I've told your story so many times ever since

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Speaker 1: I first read about it in the Marshall Project actually,

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Speaker 1: which is a wonderful newsletter that I read that focuses

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Speaker 1: on all the most important stories in criminal justice, and

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Speaker 1: you get it emailed to you for free every day

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Speaker 1: if you want it. It's called the Marshall Projects. Ever

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Speaker 1: since I read that, I was I have to I

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Speaker 1: have to interview Susan. I have to get inside of

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Speaker 1: this and try to understand it, because it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make any damn sense. So somehow or other, he manages

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Speaker 1: to convince the you know, the powers that be to

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Speaker 1: grant a search. Warrant comes and searches your house, finds

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Speaker 1: out there's a couple of old bullet holes in the

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Speaker 1: in the floor something like that, right, But none of

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Speaker 1: that shouldn't have mattered because it didn't match the bullets

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Speaker 1: that they recovered from the dead body. But that didn't

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Speaker 1: throw them off. And you know, and then it and

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Speaker 1: then he and what happens from your perspective, what happened?

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Speaker 1: When did you get the call? How did you find

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Speaker 1: out that you were actually being indicted? And then how

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Speaker 1: did you find this horrible lawyer that you ended up with?

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Speaker 1: And I need to know everything.

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Speaker 5: Well, I didn't know he was coming to arrist me.

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Speaker 5: He threatened to several times. At that point, I didn't

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Speaker 5: not to believe anything he said. He said. He I'm like, sure,

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Speaker 5: I got the electric chair? Now, what's that's what say it?

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Speaker 5: I knew did this guy just lying? He's crazy?

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Speaker 1: So he's threatening you with the electric chair? He told the.

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Speaker 5: Great electric chair years.

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Speaker 1: I mean, among the other lies that he told, he

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Speaker 1: said there were four bullet holes in the kitchen floor

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Speaker 1: and drag marks on the linoleum. None of that was true.

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Speaker 1: He told the grand jury that ballistics analysis showed the

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Speaker 1: two bullets recovered from the floor Saint came from the

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Speaker 1: same weapon that fired the bullets that killed breeding. That

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Speaker 1: wasn't true, it right. And he said that blood found

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Speaker 1: on the floor was from Breeden, where the DNA analysis

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Speaker 1: proved that in fact it could. They had no idea

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Speaker 1: who it was from. But he lied about all.

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Speaker 5: That animal vegetablear mare and mineral. It's what they told me.

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Speaker 5: Animal vegetablear mineral. That wasn't sure which.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, but the ballistics analysis actually showed

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Speaker 1: the opposite of what he claimed, right, that the bullets

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Speaker 1: did not match, and that the police knew that the

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Speaker 1: water damage to the floor in your kitchen caused the

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Speaker 1: markings that Hardwood said were drag marks. So Hardwood I.

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Speaker 5: Had thrief of all that. People that did all that

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Speaker 5: retire to my house after a flood, and I mean,

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Speaker 5: you cothing now this happened in Misking Flower.

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Speaker 1: That though, and we're not done with the lies because

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Speaker 1: you also claimed that you had used cleaning fluid to

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Speaker 1: clean up the UH to clean up the evidence, when

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Speaker 1: the investigation showed that there was there was no cleaning

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Speaker 1: fluid or cleaning chemicals of any kind. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: at some point, what I do know is that the

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Speaker 1: grand jury investigations, any investigation, two different jurors asked him

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Speaker 1: how you had been able to shoot breeding and move

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Speaker 1: his body despite only having one leg and weighing, as

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Speaker 1: we said, ninety seven pounds, and he just didn't answer

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Speaker 1: those questions. So had he of course that would be

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Speaker 1: the end of that. So okay, So now you end

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Speaker 1: up having your home taken over various times for these

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Speaker 1: searches to take place. When did you get a lawyer out?

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Speaker 5: I always them, you know, I always let them in

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Speaker 5: and try to answer all their questions and help them

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Speaker 5: in and to.

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Speaker 1: Like a citizen would, because you wanted to have this

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Speaker 1: crime sol Nobody wants to have a killer around their neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: And also any any person who's got any sort of

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Speaker 1: conscience would want to help. Anybody would want to help

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Speaker 1: the police. But I think it's important for people to

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Speaker 1: know and listen to you. Hopefully they'll they'll they'll understand

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Speaker 1: what I try to drive home all the time, which

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Speaker 1: is that if you're if they're telling you you're a suspect,

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Speaker 1: you need to get a lawyer and then stop talking

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Speaker 1: and don't talk. Don't speak outside the presence of your

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Speaker 1: lawyer because they'll trick you into all sorts of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But in your case, your lawyer didn't help at all.

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Speaker 1: And let's talk about that. How did you find this lawyer?

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Speaker 1: Who was it in the phone?

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Speaker 5: Her name is red Becca Morrell?

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Speaker 1: And where did where did she come from? She is?

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Speaker 5: Uh, he was a court appointed attorney from Shepherdsville, Kentucky.

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Speaker 5: I've never heard of her besolo, but that's who they

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Speaker 5: appointed from my lawyers, and they may as well and

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Speaker 5: have appointed my dog to be the lawyer. Wow, it

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Speaker 5: would have been better.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: She she told she came to jail a couple of

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Speaker 5: times to talk to me, and she said, frankly, I

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Speaker 5: don't believe he either. So I was danged.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's unimaginable. She that's got to be a

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Speaker 1: violation of of all sorts of I think, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's I mean, it's I was gonna say I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of anything like this.

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Speaker 5: She stood down to the judge and told the judge, Hey,

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Speaker 5: you need to get her somebody else. She didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: No, she she worked.

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Speaker 5: With She worked with the prosecutor, and she worked with

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Speaker 5: the officers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that, yeah, she literally sold you down the river.

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Speaker 1: And and and it's similar to if anyone saw making a murderer,

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Speaker 1: which a lot of people did that are listeners. They've

392
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Speaker 1: seen a similar situation in the case of Brendan Dacy,

393
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Speaker 1: where his one of his team was literally just a

394
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Speaker 1: just an extension of the the prosecutors and the police.

395
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Speaker 1: Is so disgusting and sad to watch. And your situation

396
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: is really not much different. So now here you are,

397
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Speaker 1: you're in jail, everything's closing in on you. You're facing

398
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Speaker 1: all this different hardship in every way. I mean, I

399
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Speaker 1: read what you said about your dog as well, and

400
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Speaker 1: it broke my heart on top of everything else. I mean,

401
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Speaker 1: I don't know if you even want to go back there,

402
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: but if you want to tell the story you can.

403
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Speaker 5: Well it's really sad. I had a dog named Cecyk,

404
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Speaker 5: big Australian Shepherd lad and aix and he's just a

405
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Speaker 5: big speckled pup. And then I had a little copper

406
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Speaker 5: spaniel puppy to His name was Charlie. And anybody knows

407
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Speaker 5: me knows where the animal lover I am. And I

408
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 5: had ducks and chickens and beese and a horse and

409
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Speaker 5: all that. And when I went to jail, I didn't

410
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Speaker 5: have anybody to come take care of them for me.

411
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Speaker 5: It's kind of a lot to ask anybody care of

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Speaker 5: all that. And the home was found for my horse,

413
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Speaker 5: and the home was found for my copper spaniel, but

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Speaker 5: nobody come and get my dog. Sees the cue. And

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Speaker 5: she stayed there on that porch for like three months

416
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Speaker 5: while I was in jail. She didn't know whether Mama

417
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Speaker 5: was and why Mama left or anything. She ate at

418
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Speaker 5: the next door neighbor's house, but she'd been doing that

419
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Speaker 5: for years anyway, so she was getting fed. The rest

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Speaker 5: of the time. She was like on a porch for

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Speaker 5: me to come home. And ended up a friend of

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Speaker 5: mine went and daught her and kept her fruit as

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Speaker 5: long as she could and then had to have her

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Speaker 5: put down. And she's a very sad situation. Todd Harwood,

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Speaker 5: he didn't just hurt me. He hurt so many other

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Speaker 5: people too. He hurt not only my animals, but he

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Speaker 5: hurt cops. He hurt good cops. I mean he's really

428
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Speaker 5: anything he has anything to do with the spirit career.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he's just it's just a shame because,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I grew up like you and like

431
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Speaker 1: I think anyone else pretty much, you know, thinking. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I thought about wanting to become a cop. You know,

433
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Speaker 1: like it's you. You look up when you're a child

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Speaker 1: to people in uniform, and you want to be able

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00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: to believe that they're there to do good and too

436
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: and to help you. And that's that's where you thought

437
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: you were supposed to help a cop.

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Speaker 5: And a cop ask you a questions, you sposed to

439
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 5: answered dracefully and and help them. I know that's how

440
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 5: I give information. I'm sure that I was telling the

441
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 5: trees and he just didn't care. He was determined he

442
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 5: was going to put me away whether I did it

443
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 5: or not. And he did, and he got his promotion

444
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 5: and he got his pay raise.

445
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's another it's another horrible aspect of

446
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: the story. He ends up getting promoted to lieutenant or

447
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: something like that, and you know, it's it's just I

448
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: don't understand how people sleep at night. I really don't.

449
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, great, that's really great. Like I said, I

450
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 1: don't know how. And there's and there's a special no idea,

451
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: there's a special place in hell for people like that.

452
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: But that's so so back to the story. So there

453
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: you are in jail, going through this literal nightmare that

454
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: is unimaginable to anybody, including me, even you know, even

455
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: being so steeped in the knowledge of these things, I

456
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: don't think anybody could imagine what you went through that

457
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: they've been there. And uh, and now you have this

458
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: lawyer who's working against you. You had no chance, I mean,

459
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: so you had no help. And so at some point

460
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: your only option you had these uh, these people telling

461
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: you were facing a death penalty or life in prison

462
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: or whatever it was going to be. And at some

463
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: point you made a decision that's like, it's almost like

464
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,959
Speaker 1: Sophie's choice, right, you had to You decided to take

465
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: an Alphred plead And can you explain how that came down?

466
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: And what does that mean?

467
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 5: Well, an Alford play means that you are the main

468
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: you know, remain confident that I didn't do it, and

469
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 5: I'm gonna admit to that because I didn't do it.

470
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 5: That the alpha plea means that there's evidence that you

471
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 5: think might lead a jury to think and you're guilty.

472
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 5: And my lawyer told me nothing. She told me nothing

473
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 5: about the Alpha play. I learned about the alf polea

474
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 5: from the girls in the sale with me, So you

475
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 5: had and thank Dennis, I took the Alfred play.

476
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank goodness for that, because otherwise you would have

477
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: ended up going to trial and get been most likely

478
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: getting convicted in spite of the fact that there was

479
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: an overwhelming evidence. If you're in this is if no

480
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: one was going to present it, you would have had

481
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: a really tough road to go because you know, you

482
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: would hope that a jury even still would take one

483
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: look at you and go, wait a minute, this is impossible.

484
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: But if I don't think anyone would want to take

485
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: their chances in the situation that you were in. And

486
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: now the story gets go ahead, Go no, I was

487
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: gonna say, and then the story is about to get

488
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: even weirder. But tell us what you were about to

489
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: tell us.

490
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 5: Anyway, Sometimes I forget what I'm talking about.

491
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: The middle thing, Okay, So so we'll come back to it.

492
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: But okay, so now, okay, yeah, we'll cut that out. Okay,

493
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: So now something really crazy happens, which is where well yeah,

494
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: but let me let me start here. Let me just

495
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: introduce this by saying, so, now we're going to fast

496
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: forward about four years to May twenty twelve, and what

497
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: happened in May twenty twelve, You're not even ready for them,

498
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: whoever is listening. So in May twenty twelve, a Louisville

499
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: Metro Police narcotics detective named Baron Morgan was interrogating a

500
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: serial killer named Richard Durrell Junior about an attempted murder charge.

501
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: He had fired a shotgun into the home of a

502
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: confidential police informant, which is really something that's right out

503
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: of a movie. And Darrell offered to provide information on

504
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: unsolved crimes in return for leniency for his brother, who

505
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: was facing federal drug charges drug charges in Arkansas. And

506
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: I'll just continue for a minute. And in later in interrogation,

507
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: Jarrell confessed to murdering Breeden as well as committing two

508
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: other murders. Jarrell said he killed Breeden on the day

509
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: Jarrell turned twenty one October twenty six, nineteen ninety eight,

510
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: the same day that Breden disappeared. He also told the

511
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: police that Breden had solen twenty dollars from him the

512
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: day before and used it to buy crack cocaine. Darrell said,

513
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: and I'm reading this part, that he went to Breden's

514
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: trailer and found him smoking cocaine, which was consistent with

515
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: autopsy findings that Breeden had cocaine in his blood. So

516
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: on the day Breeden disappeared, Darrell said, he picked up

517
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: Breeden under the guys are driving to his father's Jaderell's

518
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: father's home to celebrate Jarell's birthday. And it goes on

519
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: and on. But he knew everything there was to know

520
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: about where the body was, how it got there, what

521
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: he had done during the day. He knew the amount

522
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: of money he had taken out of the bank. He

523
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: knew every possible detail. He couldn't have if he had

524
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: produced a videotape of himself doing this, it wouldn't have

525
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: been any more solid than what he provided to this detective.

526
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: And this detective, you know.

527
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 5: He even told the detectives where he had thrown some

528
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 5: of the murder weapons, some of the guns and they

529
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 5: went to the price that he tells him about, and

530
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 5: they got divers and went in and they found him.

531
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: Ok, donkey, there you go. What do you know? So

532
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: this guy, he gave them an actual map and a

533
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: thing and all the information that they needed was right there.

534
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: So this detective Baron Morgan and you talk about how

535
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: they're good cops out there, and I talk about how

536
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: they're good cops. And this guy's I mean, from everything

537
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: we know about him, is a damn good cop. And

538
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: he did what he should have done, which is that

539
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: he called Harwood and he said something. We don't know

540
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: exactly what that conversation sounded like, but we know he

541
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: called him and said, hey, buddy, I think he got

542
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: the wrong answer, the wrong outcome, because Susan King had

543
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this, because I got your guy

544
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: right here, right.

545
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 5: That's right.

546
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: And at that point one would think that this Harwood

547
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: guy would go, ah, shit, the jagg is up. Well,

548
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: all right, I gotta admit it, but I already got

549
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: my promotion and I'll probably be all right. But that's

550
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: not what he did. In fact, he decided that he

551
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: would interview Jirell himself, and he recorded Darrell saying, oh,

552
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: this is this is where it gets really weird. Right,

553
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: So he interviewed Darrell, after which Darrell changed his story

554
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: and recanted his confession, which it was too late to

555
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: recant because he knew all the details. It would have

556
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: been impossible for him to know. And mysteriously, Harwood said,

557
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: the tape of this, because he did tape record this interview, disappeared.

558
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: He said, the tape disappeared mysteriously amazing. Yeah, I mean

559
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: I just got to take a second to process that.

560
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 5: You know, it's kind of like it just disappears.

561
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: It's kind of like magic. Yeah. So but meanwhile, there

562
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: were tape recordings of the detailed description of a confession

563
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: and everything else, right, so that that must have helped.

564
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: And so what happens now you're not even aware of

565
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: this at the time you're in prison.

566
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, that one day they called my name over the

567
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 5: intercom and I thought, well, now what was I that,

568
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 5: you know? And they called me down there and it

569
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 5: was the Instance Project projects that the Answer Project, and

570
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 5: they told me about the confession. And I told you,

571
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 5: how about making somebody's day?

572
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: You want to hear about that? Well, what was your reaction

573
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: when they told you that.

574
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 5: Oh, I just dropped the head down and cried. I said,

575
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 5: I remember I raised my head at that's a couple

576
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 5: of minutes. That's the Maybe now they're believe in me.

577
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: And who who from the Innocence Project, the Kentucky this

578
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: Is Project came And I know people had a lot

579
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: of different innocence projects, but I want to meet and

580
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: shake the hands of people that did this for you

581
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: and send them a check.

582
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 5: And the Smith is one of them, Linda Smith one

583
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 5: her and then she had a couple of law students

584
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 5: with her that day. Well, they were with her through

585
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 5: the whole my whole thing. They were right there with me.

586
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 5: So you got wonderful thing.

587
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: So I'm picturing you now in that little room in

588
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: the prison with your head down crying, and then you

589
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: lift your head back up. And now now what happens.

590
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 5: Well, I figured I'd be going home three things, but

591
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 5: they they the confessionant nothing, They wouldn't. They didn't let

592
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 5: me out early at all. They made me do my

593
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 5: whole sentence and then asked that I had to go

594
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 5: back through the court system to prove that I was innocent,

595
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 5: which I did, but they knew that I was in

596
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 5: I did almost a year prison after the confession, and

597
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 5: after that confession, they should have let me out.

598
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: They obviously should have let you out, but they didn't.

599
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: They kept you in there. Anyway, I'm not really sure

600
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: I even understand how that happen happened. But but and

601
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 1: then the day you walked out, you still walked out

602
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: under this cloud of having a conviction for it was

603
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: a manslaughter murder, Yeah, murder. Still come out as a

604
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: convicted murderer. But you have the Kentucky Inness's Project on

605
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: your side. And then things started to change, but they

606
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: took its still a couple of twists and turns that

607
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: are really worth looking at because after the Inns Project,

608
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: lawyers presented the evidence that during the grand jury investigation,

609
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: which we know now, two different grand jurors had asked

610
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: Hardwood how you know how he could have how this

611
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: could have happened with a one legged woman, And we

612
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: know that he evaded all the questions and all this

613
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: other stuff. Right, But in twenty twelve, in October, the

614
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: motion to vacate the guilty plea was denied by Circuit

615
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: Court Judge Charles Hickman, and he said, and this is

616
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: worth quoting He said that while Jarrell had presented knowledge

617
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: of quote a startling level of details about Breeden's murder,

618
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: the law barred him from granting emotion for a new

619
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: trial because King you Susan had pled guilty, which is

620
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: really like some double Jeopardy wackiness there too, right, So

621
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: it's almost like he's saying, Okay, it doesn't matter that

622
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: you're innocent, because we tricked you into pleading guilty. Yeah,

623
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: which is a wacky I don't think. I'm sure I'm

624
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: scratching my head. I'm sure a lot of other people

625
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: are too.

626
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 5: But you know, I always had faith even though the

627
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 5: cops was doing me wrong and I was getting fined.

628
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 5: Always damn deeps in my heart, I thought, well, the

629
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 5: judge is not going to do this to me. The

630
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 5: judge is going to see fear. All is well, he

631
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 5: didn't even look at me much less see through you anything.

632
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 5: And wow, court appointed lawyer with Becca Morell and the

633
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 5: prosecutor and officer a Hardwood, We're all standing there with

634
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 5: their arms around each other, pat and each other's back

635
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 5: and laughing. And you know that wasn't funny.

636
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 1: No, I mean, you're you're an incredibly strong woman, I mean,

637
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: how you can even get out of bed in the

638
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: morning and you know, put a smile on your face

639
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: like time to time is good to hear you laughing.

640
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just you got all my respect. That's

641
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: all I can say about that. And it's awesome that

642
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: you're here, and then I really appreciate it. So now

643
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: things take finally a better turn in twenty fourteen because

644
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: in July twenty fourteen, the Commonwealth of Kentucky Court of

645
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: Appeals reverse the decision of the judge who wouldn't look

646
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: at you, Judge Hickman, and they vacated your guilty plea

647
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: in order to do trial because they said that based

648
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: on the evidence of actual innocence, you were entitled to

649
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: a new trial. Now that would seem like a third

650
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: grader would be able to figure that out, But okay,

651
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: they figured it out, and then on October seventh, only

652
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: a few months later, they dismissed all the charges. And

653
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: now we come to another phase of this, right, because

654
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: there's two more things that really need everyone's attention. Right,

655
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: because in twenty fifteen. A year later, October twenty fifteen,

656
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: you filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against Harwood and

657
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: other police officers, which would seem like a no brainer.

658
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: But it was dismissed in twenty sixteen, and I can't

659
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: even imagine, I mean, because there's never been to my knowledge,

660
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: they may have been, but I don't know about it

661
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: a clearer cut case of official misconduct. And that's really

662
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: a nice way of saying it. I mean, it's just

663
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: the most like you said, it's the most magically terrible

664
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: uh frame job that that anyone like literally sus if

665
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: somebody put your story. You realize this, if someone put

666
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: your story in a Hollywood script, nobody would believe it.

667
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: Like people would be like, no, go back and rewrite that.

668
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: I could picture somebody said, re write that. No one's

669
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: gonna lie it. Don't believe this is ridiculous, but it's true.

670
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 5: So I've got an excellent attorney right now. It's like

671
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 5: I have an excellent team of attorneys. I've got the

672
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 5: bitch from Kentucky.

673
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: Who do you? Who do you have let's give him

674
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: a shout out.

675
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 5: Oh well, I have Thomas Clay and David Ward uh huh.

676
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 5: And then there's some of their associates and I don't

677
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 5: know what their names.

678
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: They're not excellent, excellent, excellent.

679
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 5: My life's going to be I'll be treated fairly.

680
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: Well. And and the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. We

681
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: ought to this point because in March twenty seventeen, the

682
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated the lawsuit, which is

683
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: interesting too because that's a very conservative court. But even

684
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: they were able to say, hey, you know what, this

685
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: is just not okay. And meanwhile, there's another aspect to

686
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: this too. And I'm going to be following your case

687
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: and rooting you right across the finish line, and I'll

688
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: be here to help you any way that I can.

689
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: And I hope that we'll get a chance to meet

690
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: and develop a friendship as I have with so many

691
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: other extraordinary people Axannais over the years. But there's also

692
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 1: another aspect to this, which is another really sinister thing

693
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: that I want to share with the audience, which goes

694
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: back to the police officer was at Morgan, right, who

695
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: actually tried to do the right thing, and and what

696
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: happened with him was that he was demoted. Right, So

697
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: this story is actually the one. Oh really, I didn't

698
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: know that, so tell me rich Rich Pearson.

699
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 5: He was demoted as well, and he was an excellent cop.

700
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 5: He was a good person. He's a Christian, Nanti and Shank.

701
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: So detective Baron Morgan who came forward. Uh he didn't

702
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: didn't have to, I guess right. He could have just

703
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: gone on with his life. But he came forward and

704
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, did did what any good officer of law

705
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: would do and shared the information that he had discovered

706
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: of who actually killed reading and uh and he was

707
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: assigned to I think it was the night that the

708
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: graveyard shift desk duty, right And and why why did

709
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: they do that, Susan?

710
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 5: Well, because he told the trees and it was gonna

711
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 5: make them all look like they were wrong, because they

712
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 5: were wrong.

713
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: And what about the other guy that you were just

714
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: talking about who also was demoted. What was his involvement

715
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: because he hasn't come up in the store yet.

716
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 5: He was I believe, if I'm correct, he was Baron

717
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 5: Morgan's balls. I think.

718
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: So he stood by him, right, uh huh.

719
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 5: And he talked with the Innocence Project too himself.

720
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so they actually that's to the top.

721
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 5: I was telling you that there is in this.

722
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: World, right, So they weren't willing to to tow the

723
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: line and just you know, hide and obscure the truth

724
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: and do everything else that they would.

725
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 5: Two officers for doing the right thing. They really treated

726
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 5: him badly.

727
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: Right, and so yeah, what happened is that, you know,

728
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm actually going back to my research and it says

729
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: here that in connection with your case, Harwood Superior Commissioner

730
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: Rodney Brewer complained to the Louisville PD chief and longtime

731
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: friend Steve Conrad, that Detective Morgan was meddling in a

732
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: state police case. Police case, he was meddling in a

733
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: case by identifying the actual killer. That's an interesting definition

734
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: of meddling. And so Conrad then transferred Morgan to the

735
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: graveyard shift as a patrol officer. Now the happy ending

736
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: to that part of the story, if there could be

737
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: such a thing, is that more ensued under the you know,

738
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: saying that the assignment change was punishment for bringing Gerald's

739
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: confession to light. And he actually did finally receive a

740
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty thousand dollars settlement. So good for him,

741
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: you know what, I hope he uh, I hope he

742
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: is enjoying the money and that he's living a happy life.

743
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: Whatever he's doing. I don't know if he's still on

744
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: the force or not, but I wish him well. I

745
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: wish there were more people like him out there, and

746
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: I know there are.

747
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 5: Well, that's chief the police. What's his name again? The

748
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 5: chief was Steve Conrad, Conrad, Steve Conrad. That's why I

749
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 5: could out thank you his name or nothing. And I

750
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 5: should have known, what's my own? Because he went out

751
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 5: of his way and make sure nothing's covered up and

752
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 5: the trucks didn't get out. It's just as guilty as

753
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 5: the rest of them.

754
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: It's it's it's an unbelievable conspiracy. And it's made to

755
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: me even another layer of evil, the idea that they

756
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: would do this to you, you know, a woman of

757
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: humble means, who already is facing an uphill battle due

758
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: to your injury or your disability, and and that like

759
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: the fact that they are totally fine with, you know,

760
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: perpetrating this horrendous injustice on you. Meanwhile, not, of course,

761
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: we all know that when you convict the wrong person,

762
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: which they knew they were doing, you ignore the right person,

763
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: and this guy, you know, went out and killed other people.

764
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: Had they done their job, I don't know if they

765
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: would have caught him or not, but at least they

766
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: would have had a chance, and maybe they could have

767
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: saved some other people's lives who didn't need to die

768
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: in the first place. So yeah, as you said, there's

769
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: a lot of victims in this story.

770
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 5: There are a lot of victims in this story. And

771
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 5: there's a lot of villains in this story. Because what

772
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 5: happened to make can happen to anybody.

773
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: And that's I want and I want everyone to know that.

774
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: And I also want to give another shout out to

775
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: the Kentucky Innis's Project, and I hope that people will

776
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: will donate, uh and get involved and go to the

777
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: Kentucky Innis's Project website and and help because the great

778
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: work that they did in Susan's case, I'm sure there

779
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: are many many other examples, and I want to get

780
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: to know more about their work. So, so, Susan, for you,

781
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: now you have your lawsuit pending. The courts have said

782
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: that you can only sue Hardwood, right, They're not even

783
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: letting you sue anybody else. Is that's still the state

784
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: of affairs that we're in.

785
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 5: It still is. I don't understand that, but that's where

786
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 5: it is.

787
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: But at least you're suing him, and that'll feel good

788
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,439
Speaker 1: to uh to win that, and I know you will

789
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: because now you have the dream team on your side,

790
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: like you said, and you have overwhelming you have overwhelming evidence.

791
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,479
Speaker 1: So I'm very hazy.

792
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 5: You know what would make me happy?

793
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: Tell me.

794
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 5: I'd watch for as I would to be arrested and

795
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 5: take him to the hospital and handcuffed to the bed

796
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 5: with his feet in his arms and tortured all night

797
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 5: while and thrown in county jail for nineteen months and

798
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 5: then thrown in but stay prison for four more years,

799
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 5: which would be a total of six and a half years.

800
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 5: That's what I'd like to see happened to him. He

801
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 5: needs to be done just the way he had me done,

802
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 5: and nothing less.

803
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: It's going to make me happy, Yeah, I can't. I

804
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: don't think anyone can fault you for feeling that way,

805
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: and I'm certainly not going to.

806
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 5: So Christopher murder and you say you didn't do it,

807
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 5: they're really hard on you. I mean, I had I

808
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 5: wasn't a bad looking girl when I got locked up.

809
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 5: I had pretty smile, all my pretty white teeth, and

810
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 5: I was attably proud of him, and that Dennis and

811
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 5: all that massa prison. They've ruined my teeth. I've got

812
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 5: five teeth left, and that's it. And that's just, you know,

813
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 5: the teeth is just one thing, you know, stuff that

814
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 5: happens to your body while you're in there, Stuff that

815
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 5: happens to your mind, and your emotional steak while you're

816
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 5: in there, and your mental steak. It's overwhelming to wake

817
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 5: up every day and you're still there and you didn't

818
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 5: do it, and nobody believes you. And that's a long

819
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 5: Six and a half years is a long time.

820
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: It is a long time. And I have seen pictures

821
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: of you and you were and you still are a

822
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: beautiful woman. So they can't take that away from you.

823
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: So the two last points I want to cover. One

824
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: is what is your life like now? I know this

825
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: thing is pending. How are you living? How are you

826
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: getting by? What can people do to help? That's what

827
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: I'd like to know, including me.

828
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 5: Well, you know, I don't like to complain much. I'm

829
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 5: thankful that I'm alive, and then I'm thankful I have

830
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 5: over in my head mind job living at one bed

831
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 5: dream apartment in the housing projects. It's not in my

832
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 5: house and barn and beauty shop and bake reagion, my

833
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 5: yard and my animals and everything. It's nothing like that anymore.

834
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 5: It's just me and my dog and two cats in

835
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 5: a one daydream apartment and we're trying to live on

836
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 5: forty five dollars worth a food stands a month.

837
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: Have you and we're going to help you, for sure,

838
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: But have you set up any kind of a GoFundMe

839
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: or any kind of as anybody help you with that,

840
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: because we can do that as well and try to

841
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: raise raise money.

842
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 5: I don't have the internet or a computer or one

843
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 5: of those fancy telephones or anything like that, so I

844
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 5: don't know anything about anything like that. And that's everything

845
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 5: turned into while I was in prison and I got out,

846
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 5: everything gowing to computers and the expensive phones and nobody

847
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 5: I'll pump your gas anymore. Things really changed in that

848
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 5: six and a half years.

849
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: So so Susan, what uh? I guess the only thing

850
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 1: I want to know now really is what else? Whatever

851
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: else you want to say? I mean, i'd like to

852
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: say at this point in the show, First of all,

853
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: thank you for being here. I mean, your your strength

854
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: and your courage or just beyond the beyond and Uh,

855
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna We're going to do everything we

856
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: can to help you get back on your feet or

857
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: get back to just say better, with whatever we can

858
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: to help you get back some of what you've lost.

859
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 5: I get back to normal.

860
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't get you. We can't get you back

861
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 1: your time, but.

862
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 5: I don't remember what normal was like.

863
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see what we can figure out. And then

864
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: on top of that, this is a part of the

865
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: show where as we wrap up. I always say it's

866
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show because it's part where

867
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: I stopped talking and I just listen and and I

868
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: ask you what what what? What are your final thoughts?

869
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you want to share? And

870
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: you can talk about it anything you want. Take the

871
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: last few minutes and tell the audience there's probably one

872
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people going to hear your voice. What what

873
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: would you like them to know?

874
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 5: Well, there, don't make me nervous about It's okay to

875
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 5: you said thousands of people. Ye. Now, you know, I'll

876
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 5: laugh because I have to. I got to get through

877
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 5: every day. And you know, I feel like with all

878
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 5: that prison time I did and all how badly I

879
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 5: was treated in there, and everything. It's it's it's hard

880
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 5: to talk about. I try to forget it often, kaid.

881
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 5: I wish there was a pill I could take that

882
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 5: it would just make me forget about all that. But uh,

883
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 5: I haven't forgot about it yet, but I'm working on it.

884
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 5: I finally quit having nightmares about it. My church helped

885
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 5: me a lot to sad. When my Sunday school ladies

886
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 5: pray for something, we get it done. And my church

887
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 5: has stuck with me through it all, and I'm just

888
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 5: so thankful to have that and this little community I'm

889
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 5: living in, even though it's my favorite poorhouse, but there's

890
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 5: some few decent people here and I've made a couple

891
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 5: of friends or so, and life's starting to get better.

892
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 5: I don't think I'll never be the same. There's things

893
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 5: that that good to me that I'll never get over.

894
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 5: Us tutter, I forget what I'm doing, what I'm saying,

895
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 5: because they had me on a lot of psycho drugs,

896
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 5: I call them. There's a lot of coarsene and real,

897
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 5: real strong steps to help me get through that. And

898
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 5: they had me in the influence of that stuff so

899
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 5: bad I didn't even know who I was half the time,

900
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 5: and it took its toll on my brain to this day.

901
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 5: You know, I still I eat real fast while somebody's

902
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 5: gonna take it away from me and watch over my shoulder.

903
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 5: I'm scared to death hard it's gonna murder me. But

904
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 5: I don't trust him at all. And he's just that

905
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 5: evil that he would sit out here in my apartment

906
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 5: complex and wait for me to pass in front of

907
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 5: my window, that little red dot on the wall, that

908
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 5: light that I'm going to sut out. Sometimes it just

909
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 5: scares me to death. And in the evenings wester it

910
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 5: gets dark, I turned everything off in my living room

911
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 5: the rest of my house, and I go back to

912
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 5: my bedroom. I just feel like I feel like I'm

913
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 5: an open target for some reason when I'm in my

914
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 5: living room and I don't feel safe until I get

915
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 5: back there in my bedroom. And that's not normal either.

916
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 5: I shouldn't feel that way. And the things that it

917
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 5: did to my looks was horrible. Prisons really hard on

918
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 5: on your face and able A don't even take care

919
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 5: of that anymore. But all the time I miss with

920
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 5: my family and my son and my father and my mom.

921
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 5: I just missed so many years with them, and that

922
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 5: can't be given back, that can't be replace There's just

923
00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 5: there ain't no getting that back. And I thought learned

924
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 5: how to forgive hard Woods for doing this, but it

925
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 5: ain't happened yet. But I'm not even asking God very

926
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 5: hard to make me forgive him. It's it's not in

927
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 5: my heart yet. It's going to have to happen or

928
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 5: I ain't getting into heaven. I can still go fishing,

929
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 5: but he didn't mess that up.

930
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: Are you good at it?

931
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 5: Yes? I am, Yes, So I am.

932
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go, and you still have

933
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: a great laugh, and you have a great attitude.

934
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 5: And uh, you saw me fishing, you laugh too.

935
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: I guarantee you. I'm from Manhattan. We don't know about

936
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: fishing here, so I don't know. I'm sure I wouldn't

937
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: even know what the hell was going on. But that's

938
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: besides the point. So, Susan, all I can say is,

939
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: I'm almost never at a loss for words, but I'm

940
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 1: basically at a loss for words right now. I don't

941
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: know what to say except to I just thank yourself.

942
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 5: To say about business, well, I.

943
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: Can tell you what I'll say. All I can say

944
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: is I'm gonna apologize to you for on behalf of

945
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: America and the human race for what was done to you,

946
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: because there's just no excuse for it. And UH, and

947
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: we're going to do what we can to make it right.

948
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 5: And I want to thank one day that Apple really

949
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 5: knows that's the hope.

950
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: As well. I want to thank you again for taking

951
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: your time and sharing your thoughts with us. And you know,

952
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: I want to wish you well and I want you

953
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: to know that we'll be here to help you and

954
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: support you and UH in any way we can and UH,

955
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: and I just I wish you well and again thank you,

956
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: thank you for being here. Well.

957
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 5: I hope with me having a stub with you today

958
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 5: for people that are here and it maybe it will

959
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 5: stop that somebody you it will.

960
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: You can be confident of that. And now I want

961
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: to thank the audience as well. You've been listening to

962
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: an extra special, extraordinary edition of Wrongful Conviction with today's

963
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: guest Susan King. Don't forget to.

964
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: Give us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts.

965
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: It really helps.

966
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and

967
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very

968
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go

969
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how to donate and

970
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor

971
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is

972
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

973
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 2: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction

974
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with

975
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 2: Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts

976
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 2: and association with Signal Company Number One.

977
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: The Wydent, The Wind that the Boy Repeed To,