1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, it's behind the Bastards the podcast or 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Michael Swain and I talk about how Christopher Columbus was 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: actually kind of a cool guy. Michael, how do you 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: you know a lot of people get angry at him 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: because of the slavery in the genocide. But I hadn't 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: heard that. But have you have you considered is it 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Ohio that has a Columbus or is it Missouri has 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: a Columbus? Both of them have a Columbus, don't they? 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: Maybe both at least Ohio, at least one American state 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: has a town called Columbus. And I'm gonna say they 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: have good pizza. I don't know. Nobody knows. Michael. You 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: play video games, right, your big video games guy pizza? 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: I play video games. You are regular guy. Robert you are. 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: I should introduce you first, not that you need in because, 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: as you said, the format is and always has been 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Robert Evans and Michael Swain talking about Christopher Columbus's that's 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: every episode of this show. Um, Michael, you are the 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: only member of the Cracked das for a who has 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: visited me in my new home. Um, I I guess 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: I could say that it's probably because of the plague, 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: but I think it's it's it's a direct personal insult. 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: But in any case, when you were here, you brought 23 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: out a machine which allowed you to play video games 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: on my television. UM, a gaming console, right, And that 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: made me think it's that this was like a year 26 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: ago now, but it maybe I've been thinking ever since. Boy, 27 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: it seems like it'd be nice to sit down on 28 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: the couch and play a play a video game old 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: fashioned style. So I don't know, I don't have a 30 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: lot of hobbies anymore, Michael um, and I kept thinking 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: about it, and yesterday I don't know why, I was 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: feeling kind of depressed, and I was like, I am 33 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: going to play a video game on the couch, but 34 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: I didn't have it. I don't have a console. I 35 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: don't have any way to do that. So I go 36 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: down to the video game store and I'm like, I 37 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: would like one PlayStation or Xbox, it doesn't matter. And 38 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: they told me you can't do that. You have to 39 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: get an invitation to buy a one. That's the way 40 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: that all gaming consoles work now. And so I just 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: need to ask, was a video game guy, what the 42 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: funk is going on? With video games. Why you just 43 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: go buy a video game machine? Well, if you collect 44 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: six Steam decks, then your punch card is full and 45 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: you can get a PS five. No, it's uh, my 46 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: understanding is that the well full disclosure. I used to 47 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: work at I g N and I would know this ship. Um, 48 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: I've laughed. That was like four or five six months ago. 49 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: So I believe though that that should be turning a 50 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: corner soon. Actually, chip shortage and the video card shortage 51 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: kind of has already broken. That's those I have no 52 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: idea what I have. I I've got. I've got a 53 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: gaming laptop that I bought a year or so ago 54 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: in another fit of depression. And so I just I realized, eventually, 55 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: why am I trying to buy a PlayStation? All I 56 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: want to do is play Grand Theft Out oh five. 57 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: I can just download that on Steam and buy a 58 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: controller and plug it all into my TV. So it's 59 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: fine now I figured it out. Um, but I was 60 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: did you go back and punched that clerk in the mouth? No, 61 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: he would he would like, yeah, I mean he wasn't 62 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: being rude. It's just like I didn't realize we'd gotten 63 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: to there with video game consis where you have to 64 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: get an invitation like dinner with a shake. What is 65 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: happening here? I remember at work when the PS fives 66 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: were coming out, they told us all to sign up 67 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: for X number of lottery tickets because if we didn't 68 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: get enough consoles to go around for the staff, we 69 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to cover stuff, which is the entire 70 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: livelihood of the god what periods? Wild? What a weird situation? Yeah, 71 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: it's it's something else, Michael, Michael, hmm, we're talking about 72 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus. Michael Swain, small Bean's network. Uh, formerly of 73 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: Cracked Dot. That's right, Please don't put my name director 74 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: of the film kill me now, Michael, Yes, you're ready 75 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: to get back to Columbus, absolutely or otherwise? Yeah, so, Michael, 76 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: as our story comes back, it is two now. Columbus 77 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: has unsailed his ass right across an ocean blue, and 78 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: he stumbled into a Caribbean island full of people who 79 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: immediately thinks are number one hot. He repeatedly comments on 80 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: how good looking they are and number two good potential 81 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: servants slash slaves. Now. According to his journals, the first 82 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: thing he focused on trying to do was convert them 83 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: to Christianity, and most importantly, to make sure that they 84 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: fought thought that all white people were chill dudes. Now, 85 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: he did this in a couple of ways, mainly by 86 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: handing out various trinkets. Here's how he wrote about it 87 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: in his diary. I in order that they would be 88 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: friendly to us, because I recognized they were a people 89 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: who would be better freed from error and converted to 90 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: our holy faith by love than by force. To some 91 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: of them, I gave red caps and glass beads which 92 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: they put on their chests, and many other things of 93 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: small value, which they took so much pleasure in and 94 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: became so much our friends that it was a marvel. 95 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's like really funny here 96 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: is that he thinks, like you have you get all 97 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: these writing from the Spaniards at the time about how 98 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: silly these people are because the like trade gold gems 99 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: for like useless bobble, But none of them ever considered 100 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: the fact that like maybe to these people they're both useless, 101 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: that like a glass bead and gold about is valuable 102 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: to each other. Right, Like neither of them do anything. 103 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: They just look nice. If you've never gotten high and 104 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: then have the thought gold is just a rock though, man, 105 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: like it's just a rock someone, just just a rock 106 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: that sat out in the sun the most according to Plato. 107 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: And by the way, handing out red caps, I believe 108 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: this is the official origin of the maga caps. You 109 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,559 Speaker 1: can play that he started it. Um you might actually 110 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: you might draw. I don't know. I don't know enough 111 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: about fucking Italian history in this period to know how 112 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: meaningful it is. But like you gotta remember, he comes 113 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: from a place where colored clothing is illegal. Um, so 114 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: I don't know that's that's that's got the latest hot ship. 115 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: Look his kids sucking red the color of passion. You 116 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: don't tell the pope, and I won't tell the pope. 117 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: My rods and cones are overwhelmed. And it's also it's 118 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: worth noting that, like, while this is often referred to 119 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: his gift giving, like him handing out trinkets, it seems 120 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: based on the descriptions you get that like the Natives 121 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: considered that that they are consciously like entering an exchange 122 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: with him, Like he's giving them stuff that they assume 123 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: he values, because they're giving him things that they value, right, 124 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: they're assuming he's not being Yeah, they are assuming he's 125 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: not being an asshole, or like, oh, we gotta give 126 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: him some nice stuff. He's given us all this nice 127 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: stuff that we've never seen before, Like they're giving him 128 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: nice cotton thread and like live parrots, which Columbus thinks 129 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: they're delicious. Um, he is. You gotta give him credit 130 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: with one thing. I don't know this is I found 131 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: this compelling. At least a lot of the Spaniards, especially 132 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: once they start settling in these islands, refused to eat 133 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: the local food. It's actually a massive problem. They have 134 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: to like keep shipping livestock over from Spain because people 135 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: decide that like their cuisine is gross. Columbus is not 136 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: one of those guys. He actually gets sick a bunch 137 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: because he will eat anything these people hand him, which 138 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: credit where it's due. That's how you're supposed to travel. Yeah. Um, 139 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: so one item he would give them in return are 140 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: these tiny hawks bells. And these are like if you're 141 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: doing falconry. These are like little bells that you tie 142 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: the tight of birds and used to track them. Um 143 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: when they're like flying away. I guess it's just a 144 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: thing that it was easy to get a lot of 145 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: so that they could have a shipload of these to 146 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: hand out. But he gives out a lot of hawkspells, 147 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: and that's going to be noteworthy later, so just keep yeah, 148 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: there the live strong bracelets of the era. If the 149 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: lives strong bracelets lead directly to a suicide genocide, yes, 150 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: here the people who lived on the island that Colmas 151 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: had discovered and then taken possession of for the Crown 152 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: were Taino's members of the arrow Wok group. Um. Now, 153 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: over the coming days, he met with many different like 154 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: people on this island, many different kinds of arrow walks. 155 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: Because there's all these different right, like, it's pretty broad population, 156 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: you know. Um, and I think these are kind of 157 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: like grouping by by languages. Um. And these guys gave 158 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: him a bunch of gifts of unknown types, you know, 159 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: we get he writes down some of them, um, but 160 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: usually he just writes his hewn as like they gave 161 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: us trinkets. We don't actually know what that means. They 162 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: may have been like handing him works of art, decorations, 163 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: clothing stuff that like could be because these people believe 164 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: a lot of them, at least believe that he's like 165 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: a like some sort of celestial visitor. Right, so it's 166 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: possible they're giving him like cultural artifacts of significant value 167 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: to them. Um, and he's just like, yeah, they just 168 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: gave me some crap because it's not gold, right, Like 169 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: that's the only thing that he actually ever seems to notice. 170 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: He calls their gifts tedious fishing around his ridiculous panelers, 171 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: what do I got? What do I got it? Yeah? Yeah, 172 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: the only things that he like shows any appreciation for 173 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: are the small pieces of gold jewelry that he sees 174 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: on some of their bodies. Um. Now it's worth noting 175 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: that our friend Carol Delaney absolutely fawns over the descriptions 176 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: Columbus rites of people in geography. Um. She glosses over 177 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: the fact that he like she She talks about like 178 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: what a good like anthropy, pological attention to detail that 179 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: he does that he has, which is interesting because he's 180 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: also like dismissing all of these different gifts they're giving 181 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,359 Speaker 1: him his trifles, which I would say is bad anthropology, 182 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: but I'm not an anthropologist here. Um. So, in short order, 183 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: Columbus takes his little fleet away from this first island, 184 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: which is probably San Salvador Um. And heads towards Cuba, 185 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: which he thinks is Japan, right, um, and he will 186 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: think that until the day he dies. They were his 187 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: last words. And yeah, I mean, look, it's you're runningto Cevicha. 188 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: You think it's sushi. It's happened all of us, you know, 189 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: the same food basically. Um. Yeah. So yeah, he he 190 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: decides that, and and part of the reason why he's 191 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: so like fired up to get to Japan number one, 192 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: he's still looking for that great con right, He's still 193 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: looking for like some evidence of these massive Asian civilizations 194 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: that he knows you're supposed to be here and supposed 195 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: to be ready for Christianity. Um. And the other thing 196 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: is that based on his kind of like these conversations 197 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: he's having with the locals, and they're not really conversations 198 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: as well as much as like kind of gesture based discussions, 199 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: but he kind of puts together that the gold he's found, 200 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: the little pieces of gold, came from that island. So 201 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: he's like, all right, that's where the gold comes from. 202 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: And obviously that's the number one thing. So as he 203 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: leaves this first island and heads for Cuba, he captures 204 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of people and takes them with him. These 205 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: are random locals that he imprisons on his ship to 206 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: ask his guides. Now, in her book because She's Terrible, 207 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: Carol Delaney describes these people as willing and eager guests, 208 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: friendly natives excited to show the white people around. This 209 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: is not true. These captives told Columbus that there was 210 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: an I like. Part of the evidence for the fact 211 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: that these people were not willing guests is that they 212 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: teld Columbus like, as they're sailing to Japan Cuba, they 213 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: tell Columbus there's an island on the way, and they're like, oh, yeah, 214 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: we've seen people there and they have like these huge 215 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: gold bracelets that they were on their arms and legs. 216 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: It's the most gold anyone has it. While, well, we'll 217 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: take you there. Well will introduce you to them, right, 218 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: And as soon as they get to the island, all 219 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: of the Tano prisoners he's taken run the funk away. Um. 220 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 1: They absolutely they fucking escape. Um. So he's annoyed by this, 221 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: and he sends an armed party to the shore to 222 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: recapture them or to capture somebody else. Um. He also 223 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: he can't he feels like since he's gotten close to 224 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: the island, he can't go past it without taking possession 225 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: of it. Right um, The exact way he writes this 226 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: is that it was my wish to bypass no island 227 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: without taking possession. This is another thing Carol fails to mention. 228 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: So I'm going to quote from Lawrence bear Green's book 229 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: next quote. He dispatched several seamen in hot pursuit of 230 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: the fugitives, chasing them ashore, but as he ruefully noted, 231 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: they all fled like chickens. When another dugout canoe innocently 232 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: approached with a man who came to trade a skein 233 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: of cotton, some of the sailors jumped into the sea 234 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: because he wouldn't come aboard, and sees the poor fellow 235 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: as a replacement detainee. Observing from his vantage point on 236 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: the poop deck. Columbus sent for him and gave him 237 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: a red cap and some beads of green glass, which 238 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: I placed on his arm, and two hawkspells which I 239 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: placed on his ears. That is the standard issue trinkets 240 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: of little value. And I ordered him back to his dugout. 241 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: So his plan here was to bait the hook. He 242 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: wanted the locals to approach him with trust so that 243 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: he could capture more of them. So he like takes 244 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: this guy, puts him back on his boat with a 245 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: bunch of trinkets and sends him off, um hopefully so 246 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: that he can like question the others about gold and 247 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: all that stuff. And this tactic is pretty successful. Um. 248 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: People are generally very friendly for him. Um. And there's 249 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: a few reasons for this. Some of it is that 250 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: he is giving people gifts from time to time, and 251 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: so they'll go back and be like, there's some dude 252 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: and he's handing out ship, let's go meet him. Um. 253 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: And the other reason is that as club is kind 254 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: of surmised, they saw him as and his men as 255 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: quote men who came from the heavens. Now, it is 256 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: hard for us to know precisely what their beliefs were here, right, 257 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: We don't have the kind of context that we would 258 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: like because they are genocided. Um. It he took all 259 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: their art and ship and overboard. Yeah. Um. It is 260 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: generally accepted that the people indigenous to a lot of 261 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: these islands had popular beliefs. And again you're talking about 262 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: multiple groups of people right there, all into these kind 263 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: of broad language groups. But that doesn't mean they're like 264 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: they're often at war. They have different opinions of each other, 265 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: like right there there anyway, Um, it is uh very 266 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: likely that some of these people had popular beliefs that 267 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: divine or divinely inspired beings were going to visit them 268 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: one day, and it was kind of like a prophecy. 269 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: Some times. It may have been kind of like an 270 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: apocalyptic prophecy maybe sort of. You might even view it 271 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: as a little bit like kind of Christian rapture like readiness, 272 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, which is not. There are beliefs like that 273 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: all over the world. It's courts almost every religion. Yeah. Ultimately, um, 274 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: just that at some point in the distant future, we 275 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: will meet this magical thing that's we always it's human 276 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: nature to want to eventually meet or connect with or 277 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: be one with the thing you made up. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 278 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: And it's one of those things. So they're they're probably 279 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: were some prophecies that sort of led some subset of 280 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: the people he's meeting to believe that he and his 281 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: Spaniards are divine visitors or celestial visitors or some something 282 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: ethereal and other worldly. It's also worth noting though, that 283 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: whenever we talk about prophecies like this, there's like a 284 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: nasty tendency to act as if these beliefs are universal. 285 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: It gets flattened. So we say, the people of these 286 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: islands believed this or that, and we're talking about large, 287 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: decentralized groups on many islands. Human beings just don't work 288 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: that way, right, They don't all believe the same thing 289 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: just because they all live in the Caribbean. Um. And 290 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: oddly enough, there's a passage from Carol Delaney's book that 291 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: does a decent job of making this clear. It's one 292 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: of the little pieces of kind of insight we get 293 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: into how varied beliefs might actually have been on the ground. Please. 294 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: This is the beginning of Robert's turn to pro Carol 295 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: Delaney's super pro Well, you know, I just I haven't 296 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: found this anecdote and the other stuff read about Clumbus, 297 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: and I found it fascinating because it answered this question 298 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: I always had as a kid, when you'd hear like, oh, 299 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: they believed this or that, and it's like, well they didn't, 300 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: all right, because we don't, you know, like there must 301 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: have been sex and schisms and anyway, I find this interesting. 302 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: At one stop, an old man who had heard of 303 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: Columbus approached him with a desire to engage in a 304 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: theological discussion. Perhaps he had heard that Columbus was interested 305 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: in religious beliefs, or he may have cleverly used this 306 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: dialogue as a way to protect his people. Columbus, for 307 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: his part, must have jumped at the chance to have 308 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: a discussion with a learned native about their beliefs. They 309 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: talked about the soul and what happens to it after death. 310 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: The old man explained that his people believed that any 311 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: injury to the body also affected the soul, and begged 312 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: Columbus not to injure any of the people. Columbus assured 313 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: him that he only hurt bad people because that was 314 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: what his sovereigns had commanded. Unlike others who believed Columbus 315 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: was some kind of god, this man told Columbus that 316 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: to his face, that he was quote mortal like everyone else. 317 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: Columbus was not offended and wrote that the old man 318 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: expressed his thinking with excellent judgment and courage. So that's 319 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: interesting to me. Yeah, you get these little like hints 320 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: of the variety of beliefs and thoughts that might have 321 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: existed in this population, just the recurring motif of don't worry, 322 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: I only hurt bad. The core of all Western he is, Yeah, 323 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: he is. You might we talk a lot on this 324 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: show about like whiteness and the fact that whiteness is 325 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: like an idea with shifting boundaries that changed over time. 326 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: But you might say Columbus was the first white guy. 327 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: Like he sounds like one for sure. Yeah, he's got 328 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: like the talk. He's got it all right. You could 329 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: you could put this guy in like the George Bush 330 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: White House and he could be delivering fucking press conferences 331 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: on carpet bombings. It's great. Um. So, as much as 332 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: she tries to paint him as an unbiased, open minded 333 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: cultural anthropologist, Columbus's own writing makes it clear that his 334 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: only interest in these people was using to find and 335 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: mind gold for his Jerusalem goals. He wrote very little 336 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: about their actual culture. He brushed over their Again. You 337 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: have to remember that what he said about their religion 338 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: is they don't have one, right because he didn't he 339 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: didn't understand it. So he assumed that they were just 340 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: like a blank slate ready for Christianity. Um. He ignored 341 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: their social order almost entirely. He didn't really understand the 342 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: way they were ordered and who was in charge. He 343 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: showed very little to no interest in their agriculture except 344 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: to rape about the quality of their their food, and 345 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: even that may have been kind of out of desperation 346 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: as much as anything, because as the days will on, 347 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: they keep not finding gold. Right, they get these little trinkets, 348 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: but there's no sign of these gold mines that he 349 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: had told the King and Queen were going to be 350 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: here and like huge quantities. So he may have been 351 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: playing up the only stuff that he thought was a value, right, 352 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: because but yeah, he doesn't care about the people or 353 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: their culture. So it's like, well, the food is pretty good. 354 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: Maybe we can take just imagining flying saucers coming and 355 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: we're all excited about first contact. And aliens arrive and 356 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: they're like his rp's open to order a bunch of 357 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: ship and we're like, do you want to have like 358 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: cultural interchange? And they're like, don't bother us. I don't 359 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: care about that, dude. Yeah, and then one of them 360 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: writes home it gets like asked by his boss, so 361 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: do the do humans? Is like religion a big deal 362 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: for them? No, I don't think so, man, I don't 363 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: really think it's a big deal armies though they got 364 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 1: the mates two of these things for six collegues. It's 365 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: it's like walking around Jerusalem looking for a fucking sandwich, 366 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: being like, Wow, these people don't have a religion at all. Meanwhile, 367 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: you have an abduction quota and it doesn't matter who 368 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: doesn't have numbers. Well, we are getting to the abduction quotas. 369 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: So the main thing that he does in his writing 370 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: here rather than again, Carol Laney is like just fucking 371 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: hard as hell about trying to portray him as like this, 372 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: this like anthropological savant um. I think Lawrence bear Green 373 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: gets it more correctly when he describes Columbus as writing 374 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: about the new world that he's found as a quote 375 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: tabula rasa in which his sovereigns would leave a lasting 376 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: imprint of empire. Columbus wrote that quote your highnesses will 377 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: command a city and fortress to be built in these parts, 378 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: and these countries converted. And I certify to your Highness 379 00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: is that it seems to me that there could never 380 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: be under the son lands superior to them, and fertility 381 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: and mindfulness of cold and heat, and abundance of good 382 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: and pure water, and the rivers are not like those 383 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: of Guinea, which are all pestilential, which is obviously Portuguese 384 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: have guinny. Right, So he's trying to he's he's he's 385 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: not to the fact, to the extent that he describes 386 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: all of this lovingly, He's not doing it out of 387 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: legitimate interest. He's doing it to try to make it 388 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: attractive to the King and queens. Sales pitch, sales pitch. 389 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: He's shown no interest in learning these things. No, he's 390 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: it's gold. It's just it's a sales in part because, 391 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: as per the deally as with him, if this turns 392 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: into a colony and there's trade, he gets like a 393 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: quarter of the profits forever, right Like that's part of 394 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: why he's trying to sell them on this place. Everything 395 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: he's writing is like he's like a fucking um, I 396 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: don't know if you yeah, he's he's, he's, he's a salesman, 397 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: right Like. That's what he's trying to sell is this 398 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: land other people live on. And part of the way 399 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: he's selling that is like and they're barely even real, 400 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: like they don't here, they don't care, like they do 401 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: whatever you want them to do. He's playing life like 402 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: it's civ three before they had all the like theism 403 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: and adds it's just I clicked on your ship. Dude, 404 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: it's my color. No, it's my stuff now yeah, So 405 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: right up from American Heritage summarizes columbus feelings after first 406 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: contact with the Arawak on San Salvador. Quote two days 407 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: after the first landing of the expedition on the tiny 408 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: island of Guana Honey in the Outer Bahamas, which Columbus 409 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: christened San Salvador, when your Highness is so command they 410 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: could all be carried off to castile or be held 411 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: captive in the island itself, he wrote, because with fifty men, 412 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: they could all be subjugated and compelled to do anything 413 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: one wishes. He said the line, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, 414 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: the Tino did try to introduce Columbus and his men 415 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: to their food into various inventions of their culture. Um, 416 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: and some of these did take. The most exciting invention 417 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: that they found that the Europeans found was the hammock. 418 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: They had not invented hammock technology yet. Um. We get 419 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: our word hammock from from the the Arawak language. Um, 420 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 1: and this is a big deal because, like among other things, right, 421 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: you think about a boat and the way boats are constructed. 422 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: People don't have rooms on boats in this day. So 423 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: you're just all sleeping in a pile around whatever ship's 424 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: boy is like too slow to evade capture by the mob. Yeah. 425 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: The image is just sailors like on the floor on 426 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: a shelf sleeping. Yeah. The hammock is going to revolutionize 427 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: sleeping on boats. Um. You know. Anyway, so you know 428 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: there was a genocide, but at least the world got 429 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: the hammock. We got the hammock. It's a great it is. 430 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: I just I want to see that packaged as a 431 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: Pis a hammocks worth it, we think, so, the United 432 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: hammock ad pitch. It's just like a devastated land masquerade, 433 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: the hammock worth it a Native American in a hammock. Yeah, 434 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: a single tier. We know that. We know the drill. 435 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: So slowly, as the days turned into weeks, Columbus and 436 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: his crew began to learn bits and pieces of the 437 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: local language. Now, the most important phrase that they learned 438 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: was don't be afraid and pro tip, somebody chilling, that's chilling. 439 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: It's really fucked up. Right. If anyone starts a conversation, 440 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: that's the number one way to know someone means to 441 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: hurt you. If they start by saying, don't be afraid, 442 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: then you need to be very frightened. That's a shooting word, Michael. 443 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: That is that is a shooting phrase. Um. If an 444 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: alien comes to my door saying that I Am not 445 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: going to assume that what my trinkets? Yeah, what is 446 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: your word for it? Come with me to a second location? 447 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: Is that? How do your people say, leave your cell 448 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: phone behind? Um? So, Carol Delaney gives Christopher big ups 449 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: for realizing that quote. The natives were not speaking Gibberish, 450 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: as later so many Europeans attributed to primitive people's and 451 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: that it was important to learn their language. Yes, figured 452 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: out that humans speak language. Christopher, yes, one of his 453 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: many achievements, but still he and his He and his 454 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: men were not very good at the task of learning 455 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: the local language. Six weeks into their journey, he wrote, quote, 456 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: I do not know the language, and the people of 457 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: these lands do not understand me, nor do I nor 458 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: anyone else that I have with me them. And many 459 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: times I understand one thing, said by these Indians that 460 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: I bring for another it's contrary, nor do I trust 461 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: them much because many times they have tried to flee. 462 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: But now, pleasing our Lord, I will see that the 463 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: most that I can, and little by little I will 464 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: progress an understanding and acquaintance, and I will have this 465 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: tongue talk to persons of my household, because I see 466 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: that up to this point it is a single language. Now, 467 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: first off, it is like a group of languages, but 468 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: it's probably broadly like you know, you go to like 469 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: the Balkans and there's like the different kind of Serbo 470 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: Croatian sort of dialects and they're all different languages. But 471 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: like like Ukraine, if you if you speak Ukrainian, you 472 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: can communicate to someone in Russian with vice. Right, It's 473 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: probably is kind of like that, but these are different islands, 474 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: so you have to assume they are not, in fact, 475 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: just one single language. Um. But yeah, anyway, it's interesting 476 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: to me that he's like, there's a that's interesting here 477 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: to me, including the fact that he's like, I can't 478 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: trust them very much because they keep running away when 479 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: I capture them. Weird things I've learned about these people 480 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: don't like kidnapping, real anti kidnapping vibes on the natives 481 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: on the islands. It's just weird to imagine the because 482 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: I know, because I know the way history and human 483 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: beings work, that there must be areas where I live 484 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: with a similar level of delusion, and I just swallow it. 485 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: But the idea that he can think that and just 486 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: be like, that's weird, Like how does that not hammer 487 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: home the core value of Oh, I see they're like me. 488 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: They're having the same experience I'm having. But if they 489 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: were kidnapped, it's just bizarre. The people their brains that much. 490 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know that. I think 491 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: you do live with that level of delusion. I think 492 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: we all live with areas in which our our level 493 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: of knowledge is that incomplete. But what he's saying is 494 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: a delusion. And it's a delusion because, as both a 495 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: religious fanatic and an obsessive narciss he is incapable of 496 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: looking at anything that happens to him through any lens 497 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: other than how it affects his ambitions right, and so 498 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: his interpretation of reality has to be tortured and twisted 499 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: in order to make further those ends right. No matter what, 500 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: no matter what is happening, he has to find a 501 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: way to translate it in that way. And I don't 502 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: think you have that my having known you for a while. Well, 503 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: if I'm losing in a video game, I do blame 504 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: the controller. That we all do a degree of this. Yes, yes, 505 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: In his case, the controller is several hundred thousand people 506 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: with their own culture and religion. It's weird and bad 507 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: that they want to not be abducted. It's like, because 508 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: I want to abduct them, what is the problem here? 509 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,239 Speaker 1: I call it their fatal flaw. Lovely people. Otherwise, the 510 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,479 Speaker 1: fact that he needs to learn this language so that 511 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: he can better convert and capture them is what convinces 512 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: According to Delaney, this is what convinces Columbus that he 513 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: needs to quote take six Indians back with him when 514 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: he left for Spain so that they could learn Spanish. Now, 515 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: she assures us that the experience was meant to be reciprocal, 516 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: so that his family could learn that. It's like, you know, 517 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: it's like a gap here cultural exchange for these people. 518 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: That's how Carol describes it. It's also the very first 519 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: iteration of this is America Speak American. Damn, I gotta 520 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: learn Spanish. Sure, it's just gonna learn Spanish. That's just 521 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: gonna be easier here. I'm gonna be honest. It is amazing, 522 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: Like there is there is a type of person, and 523 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: maybe Columbus is the first that like when you stumble upon, 524 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: like find yourself in a place surrounded by people who 525 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: speak and believe differently than you, like, your first thought 526 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: is like, well, I gotta make everybody a little bit 527 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: more like me. This is what gonna do. Someone's got 528 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: to help these people in what do you call this place, Lisbon, No, 529 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: that ain't gonna work, No, nope, nope. So she she 530 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: describes this as like, yeah, these people are excited to 531 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: learn from him, and he's going to learn from them, 532 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: and it's just this lovely cultural exchange that's going down. 533 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: Bear Green describes this is a much uglier process where 534 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: there do seem to be some Tino who were excited 535 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: I did to see Spain as you'd expect, because again, 536 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: they're not all one people and any time you get 537 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: like effectively aliens coming, some people are going to be like, 538 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 1: well ship, yeah, I want to see what I got. 539 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: I see what's going on there right um. The whole 540 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,959 Speaker 1: process was in fact closer to abduction than anything. Quote. 541 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: On Sunday, November ten, a dugout canoe arrived with six 542 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: men and five women to pay their respects. Columbus returned 543 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: their hospitality by detaining them. That's Columbus's words. In expectation 544 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: of returning to Spain with them, he bolstered their number 545 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: with seven additional women and three boys. He explained his 546 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: thinking this way. I did this because the men would 547 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: behave better in Spain with women of their country than 548 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: without them. His decision, he said, was based on his 549 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: experiences detaining the inhabitants of Africa's west coast to Portugal. 550 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: Many times I happened to take men of Guinea that 551 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: they might learn the language in Portugal, and after they returned, 552 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: it was expected to make some use of them in 553 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: their own country, owing to the good company that they 554 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: had enjoyed and the gifts they had received. But matters 555 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: never turned out as hoped. The problem, he decided, was 556 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: that without are women, the men would not cooperate. This 557 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: time the result would be different. His latest captives, having 558 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: their women, will find it good business to do what 559 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: they are told and these women would teach our people 560 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: their language, which he assumed is the same in all 561 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: these islands of India at is indistinguishable from an m 562 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: z U super villain. It is it is if if 563 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: we threaten their wives, they'll do what we want. Now, Michael, 564 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: you didn't mean to do this, but you actually made 565 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: it a little bit less fucked up in your head there. 566 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: So this is an interesting point in bear Green's write up. 567 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: It just sounds like he has detained these guys with 568 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: their wives, right, Like he's detained men with the women 569 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: that they were like in relationships with. That's right, buddy, 570 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: he doesn't. They're interchangeable to him. I'm gonna I'm gonna 571 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: quote from another write up from American Heritage that makes 572 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: a point I did not see noted elsewhere. And this 573 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: is them quoting from Columbus's journal. Afterwards, I sent to 574 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: a house which is in the area of the river 575 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: to the west, Columbus says in his journal. And they 576 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: brought back seven head of women, small and large, and 577 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: three children. I did this because the men would come 578 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: with themselves better in Spain having women from their land, 579 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: when without them. So again he is kidnapping seven head 580 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: of women to keep the male captives docile. Um. He 581 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,479 Speaker 1: uses the phrase the the exact way he writes, this 582 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: is cabezz um, which is the way you it's the 583 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: way you'd say. He's saying seven ahead of women exactly 584 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: the exact same way. Um. So number one, that's pretty bad, um. 585 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: And number two he is he is like he doesn't 586 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: understand that people have individual rooms. He's just taking He's like, well, 587 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: I've got guys, I gotta get girls, gotta collect the set. 588 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: He's just grabbing random women to go with these men, 589 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: seven girls. And because like they are all traveling, all 590 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: of the natives in here travel on canoes from island 591 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: to island. He doesn't I don't think he actually even 592 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: knows that, like the men and the women come from 593 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: the same island. Like he may have grabbed people from 594 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: different villages. And just like, now you got your women 595 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,239 Speaker 1: with you, why aren't you happy? Um? And it's interesting. Um. 596 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: Spanish a story in jose A Cinceo writes, quote and 597 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: this is a guy kind of writing. Around the time, 598 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: this was a great abuse and bad judgment on the 599 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: part of the admiral, which was to set a most 600 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: lamentable precedent and act so apparently trifling, which was to 601 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: have fatal consequences. And that's interesting because number one, it 602 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: does show that like people at the time are are 603 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: recognizing this is an abuse and bad This is like 604 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: a bad thing to do to people. But also it 605 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: does say a lot that a Censeo calls kidnapping a 606 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: bunch of people apparently trifling, trifling to think that this 607 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: minor kidnapping of like a dozen people would leading perfect. Yeah, Um, 608 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: so anyway, that's pretty bad. Um. Father Less Casas is 609 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: even more kind of clear when he writes in his 610 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: historia quote one might ask whether it was not a 611 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: most grievous sin to pillage with violence women who had 612 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: their own husbands. Who was to give an accounting to 613 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: God for the sins of adultery committed by the Indians 614 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: whom he took with him and to whom he gave 615 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: those wives the sexual partners. And again that's also you 616 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: can see where lost Causas is where he's like, well, 617 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: my God, they've broken the sacred bonds of marriage. Who's 618 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: going to explain this to God? Um, it's very funny, 619 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: it's not. So Now again, there are again some people 620 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: here and there who do show interest in hanging out 621 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: with Columbus Um, but Columbus was not always interested in 622 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: the people who wanted to go with him willingly. There's 623 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: one point in his diary where a canoe with a man, 624 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: two women, and three kids rose up to his ship 625 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: and the man begs to join Columbus and like go 626 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: back to Spain with him, and Columbus is frustrated because 627 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: the guy is old and can't do hard work, so 628 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: he's like, well, he's not gonna make a very good slave. 629 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: I don't want this guy. Come on the reason I'm 630 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: kidnapping the young strapping ones? Um just lying in a 631 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: hammock judging people's lives. Yeah, now, Michael, you know who 632 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: won't kidnap random groups of men and women from a 633 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: culture and jam them into the hold of a sailing 634 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: vessel together to take act to Seville our sponsor, Big hammock, 635 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: Come on down to gigmmock, hammocks. We didn't start this situation. Look, 636 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: all we do is make hammocks. Now, it's fine, it's 637 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: just woven thread. Yeah, hammocks. The genocide was created prior 638 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: to the start of the corporate charter couldn't be hammocks 639 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: that ultimately ended the genocide causality connection. I don't know, 640 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm just a hammock. I'm just yeah, this is just 641 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:41,479 Speaker 1: selling hammocks. Um okay, here's ads. Oh we're back, Michael. 642 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: So on every island he visits, Columbus sets himself to 643 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 1: the task of erecting gigantic crosses. Delaney notes that this 644 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: is more evidence that he had no intention to enslave 645 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: the locals, because this is her logic. If he converts 646 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: them to Christianity, they can't be enslaved, right, So the 647 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: fact that he keeps building crosses on their land evidence 648 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: that he doesn't want them all enslaved. Right. He's a 649 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: good guy. Oh yeah, when someone puts a cross up 650 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: in your yard, it's not It is historically always a 651 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: good thing usually. Um So. Bear Green brings up parts 652 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: of Columbus's notes that Delaney seems to ignore. At one 653 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: point in November, he did write that the indigenous people 654 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: were quote very gentle and without knowledge of what is evil, 655 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: neither murder nor theft. And they are without arms and 656 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: are so timid that a hundred of them flee before 657 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: one person of ours. He recommended to the Queen, quote, 658 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: your Highness ought to resolve to make them Christians, For 659 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: I believe that if you began in a short time, 660 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: you would achieve the conversion to our holy faith of 661 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: a multitude of folk, and would acquire great lordships and 662 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: riches and all their inhabitants for Spain. Now, the source 663 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: of these riches is quite clear in his mind. Quote 664 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: because without doubt there is in these countries a tremendous 665 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: quantity of gold. And in case the extent of his 666 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: meaning hasn't sunk in yet, gold needs to be mined. 667 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: The indigenous folks acquired the small amounts of gold that 668 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: they had mainly through like searching riverbeds, right sifting through 669 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: rocks and riverbeds and stuff to find little bits of gold. 670 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: But to actually take the quantities necessary to fund his 671 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: conquest of Jerusalem, proper minds would need to be open 672 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: and converted. Indigenous people couldn't be enslaved, because you know, 673 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: Christians can't be enslaved, but they could be forced to 674 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: labor in gold mines as part of their taxes to 675 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: the new enslavement exactly, And is there like assaying technology 676 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: at this time? Like is he right that there's a 677 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: bunch of gold. Does yes? I mean they do find 678 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: gold right, like he sees like when there are it 679 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: is like a reasonable conclusion that if you see a 680 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: bunch of people with little bits of gold, well somewhere 681 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: there has to be a place where that gold's coming. 682 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: His thinking on that matter is not like delusional or anything. 683 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: He's seeing like pieces of gold and he's like, well, 684 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: there's got to be a place that's coming from. But 685 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: as far as reasonable conclusions go, he's not making a 686 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: lot of them. So I know you're respect that for 687 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,439 Speaker 1: a second. They do find this, that is, unfortunately where 688 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: the story is going. They do find old mines. So 689 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: on November eleventh, the admiral's fleet anchors off the coast 690 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: of Cuba, which he thinks again is Japan. He and 691 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: his men quickly put to shore, expecting to find gold. 692 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: This was where all the people he'd met in islands 693 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: along the way had told him the gold came from. 694 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: But only a few of the folks he meets on 695 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: the shore are wearing gold jewelry, and again it tends 696 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: to be pretty small pieces of gold jewelry. Now Columbus 697 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: is seriously starting to worry. At this point, he's burning 698 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: through days. He can't stay out here forever, and he 699 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 1: can't just return with some gold drinkets, he feels, because 700 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: that's not going to be enough to entice the King 701 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: and Queen. So increasingly he starts to focus on what 702 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: has he seemed to be like, and what he's come 703 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: to see is the most readily available source of wealth 704 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: in this new world, which is its people. Right. If 705 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: I can't find gold, I can at least take and 706 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: sell the people from a right up. In an American 707 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: Heritage quote, on Monday, December three, the Admiral assured the 708 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: sovereigns that ten men could cause ten thousand of the 709 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: natives to flee, so cowardly and faint hearted are they. 710 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: And they carry no arms except some rods at the 711 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: end of which are pointed sticks which are fire hardened. 712 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: And again Delaney is like portraying him is in love 713 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: with these people and building these deep relationships, and everything 714 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: he's writing is like, we could fuck these guys up, 715 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: no problem, they can't stop us where God's here. It's 716 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: just it's wild that he's like, I don't know, I'll 717 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: you want to make them our religion you want to 718 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: use him as slaves, you want some rocks, like whatever. 719 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: What's important is they're here and we can suck them up. 720 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: I mean he's literally is willing to denude the landscape 721 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: that he's discovering, of whatever, as long as he gets 722 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: what do you know, something valuable. Now, by December sixte 723 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: his ideas in this respect have taken definite form. Quote 724 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: and here's Columbus again. They have no weapons and are 725 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 1: all naked, without any skill in arms, and are very cowardly, 726 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: so that a thousand would not challenge three. Thus they 727 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: are useful to be commanded and to be made to 728 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: labor and so and do everything else of which there 729 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: is need, and build towns and be taught to wear 730 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: clothes and learn our customs. I call them. Think they 731 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: can be talked to walk and speak as a man. 732 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: It is also like you come across these people and 733 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: you recognize, Wow, everyone here looks very healthy and very healthy, happy, 734 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: and their food is delicious, and it's like a paradise. 735 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: You know it would be great is teaching them how 736 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: to labor and forcing them to build towns and wear pants. Yeah, 737 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: well you hate to see it. Um, it's the seaside. 738 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't think his interest is improving their lives, but sure, 739 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: yeah it is. It is not um. Now. I want 740 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: to contrast these things which Columbus writes himself during his 741 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: travels with how Carol Delaney describes the exploration of Cuba 742 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: slash Japan by Columbus quote, he sent some men ashore, 743 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: giving instructions as usual that if the natives fled at 744 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: their approach, the men must not touch or take anything 745 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: from their houses. From the very beginning, Columbus notes how 746 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: generously the natives shared whatever they had, and he did 747 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: not want his crew to take advantage of them. He 748 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: demanded that there must be an exchange, for example, beads 749 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: and bells for needed food supplies. It was unequal, to 750 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: be sure, but trade. Nonetheless, he continually recounts having to 751 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: restrain his crew from looting villages when the residents fled 752 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: at their approach. Throughout the diary, he repeats, I did 753 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: not allow anything to be taken, not even the value 754 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: of a pin. Now it's interesting because she's not wrong, 755 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: and that he does repeatedly tell his men not to loot. 756 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: He writes regularly back to his sovereigns that I said 757 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: not to loot. But when you just include that part 758 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: of the story, you get this vision of like a 759 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: guy who's really just trying to meet people and explore, 760 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: and he's constantly dealing with the fact that his men 761 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: are unethical and want to just rob things. Already, question 762 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: why you have a corporate culture where everyone under you 763 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: is like champing at the bit exactly exactly, but when, 764 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: Because what Carol has done here is cut out every 765 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 1: time he's written, like, boy, literally three of us could 766 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: beat all of these people in a war, and then 767 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: we could own them and make them work for us. 768 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: Like I'm not going to kill you, but like that dude, 769 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: like that it would be easy. Right. Um. Yeah, So again, 770 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: when you're leaving all that out, perhaps you are doing 771 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: a disingenuous job of writing about a guy's backstory. Um. 772 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: I'm not an anthropologist like Carol Delaney, but I see 773 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: that as perhaps missing a key part of the story. Um. Now, 774 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: one thing we're not going to be getting into a 775 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: lot in these episodes is the story of the Pinzon brothers. 776 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: Um Delaney leaves them out, mostly to all she kind 777 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: of notes is that in late November, Martin Alonso Pinzon, 778 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 1: who's the captain and owner of the Pina. Right, all 779 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: of these ships had other guys who owned them. They 780 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: were just kind of in service to the Spanish ground. 781 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: He abandons the fleet out of greed, right, like, not 782 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 1: that long after after they arrive, he takes the Pina 783 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: and he just goes separately and does his own thing 784 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: for a while. And she makes Pinzona out to be 785 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: basically the villain of the Columbus story, this dangerous and 786 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: competent buffoon who tries to like ruin. He's trying to 787 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: like steal gold while he's away, and he's not listening 788 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: to Columbus. And it is true that Pinzon takes the 789 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: Penta and kind of leaves the fleet and returns Spain eventually, 790 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: like separately, it is inaccurate to portray him as some 791 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: buffoonish foil. Penzona and his brothers basically hand all of 792 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: the expedition's logistics. Martin Pinzone was the only reason Columbus 793 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,399 Speaker 1: was able to find a crew. He was a very 794 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: respected sailor in Palos, and he basically convinced others to 795 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: join the journey. Interviews we have with crew members and 796 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: their families from a later court case between the two 797 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: suggests that he basically ran all of the day to 798 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: day business of the expedition because Columbus wasn't good at 799 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: it and no one trusted him. Um. Evidence that maybe 800 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: people were right not to trust Columbus as an expedition 801 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: leader comes right around Christmas, when the Santa Maria sinks 802 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: like a motherfucker off the coast of what is today Haiti. 803 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: Now the precise cause of the accident is unclear, and 804 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: it is partly unclear because Columbus wrote and revised his 805 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: own account of the disaster repeatedly in order to like 806 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: blame different people. Um. At first, he blames the ship's boy, 807 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: who he says is at the tiller at the wrong 808 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: time and screws up Um. But as time goes on, 809 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: he starts to claim that the ship hit an invisible 810 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: reef while he slept, and then, finally, as bear Greenwrights 811 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 1: quote now, he insisted it was caused by the treachery 812 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: of the master and the people He's talking about. Pen 813 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: Zone here, refusing to run out the anchor from stim 814 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: to Kedge that his hall off the ship is the 815 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: admiral ordered there was no more mention of the hapless 816 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: boy at the tiller, or Columbus's fatigue, or the holiday celebrations, 817 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: treachery had taken their place. So basically, he's having issues 818 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: with his crew. A lot of them trust these pen Zones, 819 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: and like one of the pen Zone brothers fucking leaves 820 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: with his guys, and Columbus initially is like, this thing 821 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: sank because we were celebrating for the holiday and like 822 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: I was tired. We didn't like pay enough attention. Then 823 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: he's like, no, it was this boy. And then he's like, no, 824 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: it was treachery from the men of Palos who wanted 825 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: to ruin the expedition and like didn't do what I 826 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,720 Speaker 1: told them do. Um. I don't know. I think Columbus 827 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: maybe literally fell asleep at the wheel, Like it is 828 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: entirely possible that he just kind of like passes out 829 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: and the Santa Maria crashes. Um. But yeah, anyway, it's 830 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: very funny. UM. And what's interesting here is that kind 831 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: of by that last revision of the story, and what 832 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: we're seeing is an increasingly paranoid Christopher Columbus because he's 833 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: he's under a lot of stress. He has to justify 834 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: this expedition, and he also has come to increasingly believe 835 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: that like God is directing him right, God brought him here, 836 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,240 Speaker 1: and he is like achieving a sacred end for the Lord. 837 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 1: And so finally a good turn in the story because 838 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: God's good. God's going to know what to do. This 839 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: is gonna be great. Well, God is telling him that 840 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: all of the crewman he has are conspiring against him 841 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: to stop him from achieving his goals. So the good 842 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: news is that Columbus, his men and most of their 843 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: possessions get rescued by a local leader a caseique, which 844 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: is kind of I don't know, vaguely speaking, it's like 845 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: a chief, right. A caseque is like kind of a 846 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: local kind of villager town level leaders. Something. They seem 847 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: to have pretty widely differing kind of like numbers of 848 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: people following the little management. No, I mean definitely, I 849 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: know it just yeah, it doesn't it doesn't look like 850 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: there's like a long chain. But yeah. One of these 851 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:52,280 Speaker 1: guys is named Um guacanagari Um, and Guacanagari is either, 852 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: depending on kind of how you interpret things, either one 853 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 1: of these guys who sees the Spaniards is maybe some 854 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: semi divine or he's just a very savvy local politician 855 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: who sees them as powerful military allies against his enemies. Right, 856 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: he recognizes, well, these guys have good weapons, and if 857 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,280 Speaker 1: I get in their good books, they will help protect 858 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: me from my enemies. Right. So, after he rescues Columbus 859 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: and his men from this sinking, he offers to build 860 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: houses for the admiral and his men and like let 861 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: them live there. And he presents them with several gold gifts, 862 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: like he gives them kind of some of the biggest 863 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: pieces of gold Columbus has found um and he tearfully 864 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,439 Speaker 1: expresses his intense desire for friendship. Now, Carol Delaney writes 865 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: about this at length and presents it as a beautiful 866 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 1: example of platonic cross cultural love between these two men 867 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: into Charlie Brown special effire exactly yeah, yeah, he had, 868 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: he had. Guacanagari are like just the best of buds 869 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: um Bear. Green's writing makes it clear that the caseque 870 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: was motivated as much by real politique as anything else. Quote. 871 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: Striding past groves of trees next to the houses, the 872 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: Spaniards found themselves escorted to their guest quarters by a 873 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: good thousand people, all naked except for Guacanagari, who out 874 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: of respect for his guests, now wore a shirt and 875 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: gloves that the Admiral had given him, and over the 876 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: gloves he made more rejoicing than anything. They talked of 877 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: strategic matters of the Indians, fierce rifles, the Caribs, who 878 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: carried bows and arrows reminiscent of the Spaniards, exhausted weapons 879 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: but made without any iron, and of the way the 880 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,240 Speaker 1: Caribs captured the Indians at will. At once the Admiral 881 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,799 Speaker 1: said by signs that the sovereigns of Castile would order 882 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: the Caribs to be destroyed and would order them all 883 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,240 Speaker 1: brought with their hands bound. To reinforce his show of strength, 884 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: Columbus ordered a lombard and must get to be fired. 885 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: The two shots, powered by gunpowder technology unknown to the Indians, 886 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,720 Speaker 1: shattered the Caribbean calm and the Indians fell to the earth. 887 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: So this guy is like, you can stay here, we 888 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 1: can be friends. Um. You know, by the way, would 889 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: you help us out with these local enemies of ours 890 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: who are like rating us and taking some of our 891 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: people captive. And Columbus is like, oh, once I tell 892 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: the Queen this, you know she's going to approve a genocide, 893 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: will wipe them out. Don't worry. Look at look at 894 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: our guns. Um. And this is going to be note 895 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 1: where they lay here, because now that the Caribs are 896 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: kind of in the picture, we've established basically everyone he's 897 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: met before is like peaceful and and friendly. Um, the 898 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: Caribs are not peaceful, or at least it is. He 899 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: has have agendas. They're doing things well there. They can 900 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: at least be portrayed that way. And if there is 901 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: a group of people here who are aggressive, well then 902 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: suddenly a whole world of military options opens up. Right. 903 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: I guess that's like me. That's like me sticking my 904 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: fist to do a wasps nest and going, well, this man, 905 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: you see that I had no choice. Um. That is 906 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,760 Speaker 1: basically what happens here. Now. The show of modern arms 907 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: has two purposes for Columbus. For one thing, obviously, it 908 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: does establish his value as an ally to this guy, 909 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: but it also acts as a show of force to 910 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: Guacanagari and his people, because with the Santa Maria sunk, 911 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,399 Speaker 1: Columbus doesn't have space on his boats to take all 912 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: of his people back to Spain. But when the Cacique 913 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: offers him a home on the island. The admiral is like, well, 914 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: wait a second, I can make a fortress here, Like 915 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 1: I can leave some guys behind. We can fortify it, 916 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: and I'll have built the first strong point for Spanish 917 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: power in the region. It'll be like the start of 918 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: our of our trading system and stuff throughout the islands 919 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: Um and Columbus. Now, because he's kind of taken with 920 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: this vision, he starts to see the loss of his flagship, 921 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: the sinking of the Santa Maria, as divinely inspired. He was. 922 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 1: He decided quote preordained to run aground and to meet Guacanagari. 923 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: And while his initial mission had been simple exploration, he 924 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: was obligated now by Holy Fiat to actually start colonizing 925 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: this new land. Quote now I have given orders to 926 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: erect a tower and a fortress, all very well done, 927 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 1: and a great mote. Not that I believe it to 928 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: be necessary for these people. For I take it for 929 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,240 Speaker 1: granted that with this people, I could conquer all this island, 930 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,399 Speaker 1: which I believe to be bigger than Portugal, and double 931 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: the number of inhabitants. So he's like, I'm building a fortress, 932 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 1: even though I don't really need one, right, like I 933 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: could conquer it without one, But I'm gonna make one. 934 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 1: Um now of the people who are already there, Columbus 935 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 1: showed now no real pretense of kindness. He described them 936 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: as cow wardly and beyond hope of cure. It is 937 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: right that this tower should be built, he insisted. And 938 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: it is as it should be. Being so far from 939 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: your Highness is that they may recognize the skill of 940 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: Your Highness's subjects and what they can do, so that 941 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: they may serve them with love and fear. So he's like, 942 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: part of what he's saying here is that the reason 943 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 1: we should build a fortress here is to show these 944 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: people is to have, is to provide a physical, like 945 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: a physical example of the power of the Spanish crown. Right. 946 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: We don't need this fortress because to defend ourselves from them, 947 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: because they're harmless. What we need it for is that 948 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,359 Speaker 1: they never forget that now they're subjects of the kingdom. 949 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:40,879 Speaker 1: Here exactly we are, pennywise. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna build 950 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 1: us a little death star in the middle of their 951 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,799 Speaker 1: nice little Caribbean islands so they never forget that the 952 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: empires on their fucking absolute construction on the town. The 953 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,439 Speaker 1: death that is, that is his brilliant idea. So he said, 954 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: he leaves about forty of his guys there to create 955 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 1: a new settlement, and they're meant to build up infrastructure 956 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 1: using native labor to hell and collect gold for Spain 957 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: that's going to be there upon their return. Carol Delaney 958 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: writes that the men he left behind were just super 959 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: jazzed for the opportunity. Quote, Well, once his men had 960 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: desperately feared they would not be able to return to Spain, 961 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: they now began to happle who over who would be 962 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: fortunate enough to stay on the island while Columbus and 963 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,400 Speaker 1: the rest of the crew would attempt to return to 964 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 1: Spain on the tiny Nina. That's good, now, Michael. Let's 965 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,239 Speaker 1: let's let's let's think here. Let's wargame this out right. 966 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: You've got these people who Columbus has already said every 967 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: single time they come upon a village with the people 968 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,879 Speaker 1: that he has to stop them from stealing, right, And 969 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: now he's like, I'm going to leave some of you 970 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: here alone with weapons, and they're all suddenly very excited 971 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 1: to be in that crew. Do you think they have plants? Meanwhile, 972 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this fox in this grain and the 973 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: suck in my boat all together, and I'm gonna go 974 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 1: over there. Do you think maybe something bad might be 975 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 1: about to happen with these guys? But you know who 976 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: would never for rob an island of people blind because 977 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: I don't think it's physically possible. If you're going to 978 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: say what I think you're gonna say, yeah, that's right. 979 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: The products and services and support this podcast when sets 980 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: up the island that you can hunt children on, which, 981 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,359 Speaker 1: by the way, Michael, you and I should hang out 982 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,040 Speaker 1: on one of these days. It's a great, great place 983 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,240 Speaker 1: for a vacation. They're not they're not robbing, they're island 984 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: off the coast of Indonesia. They're creating value. You know, 985 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: that island was just uninhabited by anything other than people 986 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 1: when they came here. And now they've turned it into 987 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 1: a hunting preserve. You know that's value. Right before then, 988 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: we weren't aware that cloth could be cut in the 989 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: shape that shape, that apron shape. It isn't worth it 990 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,719 Speaker 1: for the apron. The april alone. An has made their 991 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:54,640 Speaker 1: island worthwhile Michael, here's some AD's Okay, we're back. So 992 00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, Columbus is uh. It's interesting here because, like 993 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: he is, he's leaving these guys behind, and a lot 994 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 1: of them are very excited to get to stay on 995 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,440 Speaker 1: the island and get up to the ship they're going 996 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 1: to get up to. But it's also worth noting that 997 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,360 Speaker 1: like Columbus is potentially dooming them all based on his 998 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 1: own vanity and desire for advancement, because he's very good 999 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: at navigating, right, he has navigated his way to and 1000 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: through the Caribbean with extreme facility, But the notes that 1001 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: he's written on how to get there and back are 1002 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,239 Speaker 1: totally nonsense from a nautical point of view. Purposefully, he 1003 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,959 Speaker 1: has written the wrong way to get there and back 1004 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: in his notes because he doesn't want to risk getting 1005 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 1: intercepted by a foreign power and giving them directions to 1006 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 1: the New World. Right now, that's reasonable in a way, right, 1007 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,319 Speaker 1: because this is a valuable secret and when you do 1008 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 1: it in code or in some way that you could 1009 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,719 Speaker 1: still understand where you're going. Well, he can, he knows 1010 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,239 Speaker 1: how to get but no one else he's so here's 1011 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,880 Speaker 1: the thing, though, He's leaving all these dudes behind, and 1012 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: no one else is going to be able to find them, 1013 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,880 Speaker 1: like where he to have died on the voyage in 1014 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: people died for no fucking reason back then, all of 1015 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: those guys would have just been doomed. It's also the screenwriter, 1016 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 1: and he just can't get over what a huge turn 1017 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,480 Speaker 1: in like dooming so many lives. That that moment is 1018 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,759 Speaker 1: where he decides in his sick little brain, Yeah, oh 1019 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,760 Speaker 1: I was supposed to stay here. Why because I'm supposed 1020 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 1: to take dominion of this land, all of it. You're 1021 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 1: like done done Dune, Yes, fuck um. But it is 1022 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: it is funny that he is essentially gambling the lives 1023 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,160 Speaker 1: of his men on the hope that he, a middle 1024 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,319 Speaker 1: aged guy in the four hundreds, isn't going to like 1025 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,480 Speaker 1: die and leave them stranded forever. I just do I 1026 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: find I find that also funny. Obviously that's not a 1027 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: particularly great crime in the Columbus canon, but it does 1028 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 1: say a lot about him as a dude that he 1029 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 1: just doesn't even think about it, not for a second time. 1030 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,840 Speaker 1: Is there is an ounce of concern, what if we 1031 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,840 Speaker 1: need to get back what you know, left at the 1032 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,759 Speaker 1: Big Rock or whatever. I gotta just say, like, come on, 1033 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 1: figure it out. So Columbus begins his journey home on 1034 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: January two, but despite days of begging from the Cacique 1035 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,440 Speaker 1: that he's stayed to provide protection from the Caribs. Before 1036 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,279 Speaker 1: he left, he christened his new settlement on his Spaniola 1037 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,239 Speaker 1: Novedad and wrote in a letter to his sovereigns that 1038 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,960 Speaker 1: when he returned to the island, he was sure that 1039 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,520 Speaker 1: he would quote find a barrel of gold that those 1040 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,960 Speaker 1: who were left behind would have acquired by exchange, and 1041 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,600 Speaker 1: that they would have found the gold mine and the 1042 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,680 Speaker 1: spicery and those things in such quantity that the Sovereigns, 1043 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,440 Speaker 1: before three years are over, will undertake to go and 1044 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,440 Speaker 1: conquer the Holy Sepulcher. For this, I urged your highnesses 1045 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,520 Speaker 1: to spend all the profits of this my enterprise on 1046 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:42,400 Speaker 1: the conquest of Jerusalem. All right. So yeah, he's like, 1047 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna be great, it's going to change the world. 1048 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: It is well, because what he's saying here is that 1049 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,480 Speaker 1: what I'm leaving them on the island to to collect 1050 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: gold and find a mind and find spices, which number 1051 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: one Carol Delaney is like he just wanted them there 1052 00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: to watch his friend and to set up a settle 1053 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,920 Speaker 1: it so people could live essentially set up a human 1054 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: Bitcoin mine. Yeah, that that's actually what he's doing, and 1055 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,719 Speaker 1: he wants he's doing it all for Jerusalem, baby. So 1056 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,360 Speaker 1: one of the last things Columbus did was he delivered 1057 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: a letter to the man he was leaving in charge 1058 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,160 Speaker 1: of navadad Uh. It contained instructions and was signed instead 1059 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,560 Speaker 1: of with Columbus's usual signature, it was signed with something new. 1060 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,360 Speaker 1: This is the first time he starts using what instead 1061 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,799 Speaker 1: of like his signature. Is this bizarre glyph that he 1062 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,840 Speaker 1: invints for himself during the voyage um and he creates 1063 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 1: this like glyph to sign things with because he's now 1064 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,719 Speaker 1: grown convinced that he's being guided by God to some 1065 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 1: holy end. And here's how Carol Delaney describes this. The 1066 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: sigil resembles a ship in full sale and consists of 1067 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,680 Speaker 1: three rows of letters in the shape of a triangle. 1068 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,720 Speaker 1: The meaning of the last line is clear. Expo Ferends 1069 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: is a combination of Greek and Latin words meaning Christ bearer. 1070 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: Columbus must have believed that he had made good on 1071 00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,560 Speaker 1: his identification with his namesake St. Christopher, though during the voyage, 1072 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,400 Speaker 1: Columbus must have gotten much thought to the letters in 1073 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,719 Speaker 1: their arrangement. To this day, they remain undeciphered, despite the 1074 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,799 Speaker 1: efforts of many people through the ages. What interpretation is 1075 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 1: that the initials stand for serve Us at the top, 1076 00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: and then some altissimy Salvadorus on the second line and 1077 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,360 Speaker 1: Christe Maria Jesu on the third, all of which translates 1078 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: as I am the servant of the Most High Savior, 1079 00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,400 Speaker 1: Oh Christ Mary Joseph. Another interpretation is servadors who's als 1080 00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,800 Speaker 1: Teca's sacras Christo Maria Isabel, that is, the humble servant 1081 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,520 Speaker 1: of their most sacred Majesty's Christ Mary and Isabella. So 1082 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,440 Speaker 1: he's he's he's kind of gone full extremist here. Um, 1083 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,320 Speaker 1: he's he's. He's like built himself a logo. That doesn't 1084 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,640 Speaker 1: that number one. He's like among primarily himself. Yeah, he is, 1085 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,919 Speaker 1: he is, he is. He is signing himself now as 1086 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,839 Speaker 1: like the agent of God, right, like the person who 1087 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,920 Speaker 1: is going to like bring about the apocalypse and designs 1088 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,800 Speaker 1: of Jerusalem. Yeah, like put it in a little cool triangle. 1089 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: He's spending a lot of writing figured it out. Yeah, 1090 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,920 Speaker 1: he's got we never got his notes, his little trapper 1091 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,000 Speaker 1: keeper as he figured out how to do all the 1092 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,560 Speaker 1: fail the alternate ones, and takes some little ship he 1093 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,239 Speaker 1: was gonna doodle anyway. That's that we're now at like 1094 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,920 Speaker 1: full christ Bearer Columbus, who is number one, convinced that 1095 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,399 Speaker 1: he and by like he and the sovereigns now own 1096 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,839 Speaker 1: this place right because again he part of his deal 1097 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,439 Speaker 1: with them is that if they take it, he gets 1098 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,600 Speaker 1: to be the governor and he gets a cut of 1099 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 1: all the profits um. And he's also convinced that he 1100 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,360 Speaker 1: is being directly guided by God to take possession of 1101 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: this in order to fund the Holy War. So that's 1102 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:43,480 Speaker 1: it is striking how often people who have acquired or 1103 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:50,400 Speaker 1: on the verge of acquiring completely like you know, unevenly levered, 1104 00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,800 Speaker 1: like advantage over something, or to suck a huge amount 1105 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,640 Speaker 1: of resource up, suddenly decide that it's good. This is happening, 1106 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: and God one to this to happen, and it's great. 1107 00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: And that's why it's fine. I love it. I love 1108 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,000 Speaker 1: being on the show, Robert. I'm glad this is all 1109 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:13,440 Speaker 1: we ever do together, episode after episode. Yes, next we 1110 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 1: will be talking about Christopher Columbus's feet. Now, this is 1111 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,960 Speaker 1: largely going to be based on you know my personal 1112 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,799 Speaker 1: theories um slash erotic dreams. But I think people will 1113 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,600 Speaker 1: still get a lot out of it. Michael, I hope 1114 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,960 Speaker 1: you do. I'm turgid, So let's go. Do you have 1115 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,440 Speaker 1: any plugs you want to plug before we roll out? God? 1116 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,600 Speaker 1: Not after that. Thanks for the opportunity, Robert, always have 1117 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,120 Speaker 1: a blast here. Uh yeah, my name's Michael Swain. You 1118 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,600 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter mostly at swain Underscore Corp. 1119 00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: And if you want to hear me on a whole 1120 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,560 Speaker 1: variety of podcasts, search up small Beans, which is the 1121 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,239 Speaker 1: name of my imprint, or head over to patreon dot 1122 00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,879 Speaker 1: com slash small Beans. I've also got another show that's 1123 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,120 Speaker 1: not on that network called One Upsmanship, a brand new 1124 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,879 Speaker 1: video games podcas test on the I Heart network. Check 1125 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,400 Speaker 1: it out if you're interested in video games as an 1126 00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: art form, because that's what we think it is. By we, 1127 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,279 Speaker 1: I mean myself and my co host Adam Ganzer again 1128 00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,560 Speaker 1: that's the number one and then ups men ship check 1129 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:18,320 Speaker 1: it out. Excellent. Alright, so the episodes over go home. 1130 00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: Everybody Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 1131 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,520 Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 1132 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,600 Speaker 1: Zone Media. Dot com, or check us out on the 1133 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,320 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 1134 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,080 Speaker 1: your podcasts.