WEBVTT - Remember, Remember, the (Other) 5th of November

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<v Speaker 1>Al Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Ikadapa here a podcast taking place on a

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<v Speaker 2>day they will live in infamy and set a country ablaze.

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<v Speaker 2>I am, of course referring to Guy Fox Day. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>your host, be along with these James.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm here. I'm excited. I'm excited to share with people

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<v Speaker 3>some of our national traditions in the United Kingdom.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so as a person from the country who

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<v Speaker 2>won who won the Revolution? I get to do the

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<v Speaker 2>British episode because you should. I fucking yes.

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<v Speaker 3>So all right.

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<v Speaker 2>The the thing about the Gunpowder plot is that, like

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<v Speaker 2>another event occurring in November fifth, there are no heroes

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone like sucks shit. Yes, So in order in

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<v Speaker 2>order to return to a type of heroes and to

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<v Speaker 2>get the context of what the fuck is going on here,

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<v Speaker 2>we're taking a digression because I am never going to

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<v Speaker 2>get an other chance to talk about this part of

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<v Speaker 2>history unless I read a Martin Luther episode. So or

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<v Speaker 2>going all the way back to the origins of the

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<v Speaker 2>split between Protestantism and.

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<v Speaker 4>Catholicism.

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<v Speaker 3>Good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was raised to Lutheran, Okay, so I got

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<v Speaker 2>a very very sanitized version of who Martin Luther was,

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<v Speaker 2>and that I read about that Martin Luther actually was,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, holy shit, yeah, different dude, Martin Luther.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is the part also that doesn't really get

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<v Speaker 2>talked about in the sort of lutherm tradition because Lutheran,

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<v Speaker 2>the Lutheran tradition is not a revolutionary tradition. Shall we

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<v Speaker 2>say that the thing that Lutheran did, we started Protestant

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<v Speaker 2>dism by accident, was accidentally kicked off a genuine, full

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<v Speaker 2>scale social revolution in Europe with his attacks on the

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<v Speaker 2>Catholic Church. He was not trying to do this, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but he very quickly has has in fact accidentally done this,

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<v Speaker 2>and through the sort of breach that he'd opened, and

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<v Speaker 2>like the ironclad walls of Catholic monarchical rule, came the

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<v Speaker 2>German Peasants Wars. And my favorite dude in this entire

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<v Speaker 2>period of time, uh, Flora Gear.

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<v Speaker 3>But the thing I familiar with flor good name.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh this guy rules. This guy fucking rips. Okay, there

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<v Speaker 2>is a Knight who.

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<v Speaker 4>There's a lot of debate about this, but the sources.

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<v Speaker 2>That I've read a long time ago, when I was

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<v Speaker 2>reading about this guy says that he is the only

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<v Speaker 2>like they are the only like knights, like mounted knights

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<v Speaker 2>in like the entire history of Europe to defect and

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<v Speaker 2>join a peasant revolution.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, they're these guys, they're like the yeah Night so something.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Black Company. Yeah yeah, he rules, Yeah, it slaps.

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<v Speaker 2>So the drim peasant wars kickoff, and he he he

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<v Speaker 2>joins the peasant revolution with this sword that is supposedly

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<v Speaker 2>inscribed with the words neither cross nor crown.

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<v Speaker 4>Unbelievably based.

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<v Speaker 2>He fucking protost Yeah. Yeah, And and his thing came

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<v Speaker 2>in the Black Company, which is part like, it's part knights,

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<v Speaker 2>part like peasants just basically run around the regia and

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<v Speaker 2>kill the shit out of nobles and priests and like

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<v Speaker 2>spread the spread, spread the glorious fire of the peasant revolution.

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<v Speaker 3>What hero. Yeah, it's awesome. I've found a picture of

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<v Speaker 3>him strong chin as well. Yeah, I will say powerful

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<v Speaker 3>Joe line.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I mean he has an interesting sort of

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<v Speaker 2>conflicting legacy. So he gets killed eventually because the giant

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<v Speaker 2>presant revolution is eventually destroyed, and we'll talk about Martin

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<v Speaker 2>Luther's role in that in a second, But he has

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<v Speaker 2>this interesting legacy where he's taken up as a national

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<v Speaker 2>hero by like every kind of non establishment faction of

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<v Speaker 2>German politics. So he's like like there's an SS division

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<v Speaker 2>named after him. He's also like one of the heroes

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<v Speaker 2>of East Germany. Yeah, I can see it this Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and like this is one of these things were like

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<v Speaker 2>and like in twenty and thirties Germany you will have

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<v Speaker 2>communist social Democrats and the Nazis all singing like the

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<v Speaker 2>same songs about this guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, he's one of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Few sort of redeemable figures in German history. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>think he fucking rips.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is what happens with national myth making, right,

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<v Speaker 3>you just take sing and make it class. It's like

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<v Speaker 3>you mold it to whatever you want it to be,

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<v Speaker 3>whatever you want you a national story to be. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like like this happens with Makno and Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 2>This happiest with what we talked was on Margaret Show

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<v Speaker 2>and I did. We did a bunch of episodes about

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<v Speaker 2>anarchism in Korea, and like they do this with a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of Korean anarchists too. They become like national like

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<v Speaker 2>state heroes, and it's like, well, okay, this guy would

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<v Speaker 2>have absolutely shot you. Like this is one of these

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<v Speaker 2>things where it's like if you if, if you, if

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<v Speaker 2>you were to show if you were to show this

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<v Speaker 2>guy the SS, he'd be like, what the fuck?

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<v Speaker 3>Like me get my sword out again.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's time, It's time to start the killing again.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And very specifically, Geary is like he'd actually had

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<v Speaker 2>known Martin Luther back before he like joined the peasants,

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<v Speaker 2>and like specifically the fact that they're they're like these

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<v Speaker 2>peasants are like sacking castles and killing priests and like

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<v Speaker 2>the ruling class very specifically makes is like, like the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that the ruling class could conceivably be in danger

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<v Speaker 2>is it that convinces Martin Luther to become I think

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<v Speaker 2>I've been this argument on the show before, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think he is, at very worst, like the second greatest

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<v Speaker 2>kind of revolutionary in like the last four or five

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<v Speaker 2>hundred years, because I hold that the greatest kind of

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<v Speaker 2>revolutionary is the one who starts the revolution and then realizes,

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<v Speaker 2>holy shit, I can't control this and I don't like

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<v Speaker 2>where it's going, and then immediately turns kind of revolutionary

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<v Speaker 2>to kill everyone who was involved. No, not like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So the product of this is that Martin Luther writes

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<v Speaker 2>this book kind of long pamphlet called against the murderous

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<v Speaker 2>beving hordes the Peasants and aligns himself with the princes. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, so then this is the start of

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<v Speaker 2>what it's eventually a century.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, there's a couple of centuries of religious war

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<v Speaker 4>in here. We're gonna get to you.

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<v Speaker 2>But this is in a lot of ways, I think

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning of the reproach ma between Catholicism and Protestantism,

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<v Speaker 2>because yeah, because class is more yeah yeah, and that

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<v Speaker 2>that actually, weirdly is an extremely important part of the

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<v Speaker 2>story of Guy fox Day. Yes, yeah, yeah. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the other thing that Luther's up to in this period

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<v Speaker 2>is trying to outflank the Catholics on anti Semitism, which

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty hard because like so this is the early

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<v Speaker 2>this is the early like fifteen hundreds, right, Yeah, we

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<v Speaker 2>are like forty years out from two Spanish monarchs like

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<v Speaker 2>expelling the Jews from Spain.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so like sixteenth century anti Semitism is like peak.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's it's hard to exactly like tear

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<v Speaker 2>list the like periods of anti Semitism, but like right,

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<v Speaker 2>like the Holocaust. Holocaust is obviously number one. And then

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<v Speaker 2>like this period like the Kolelmannitsky pull Grom and like

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<v Speaker 2>some of the stuff in late nineteen like late eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds Russia or like yeah, some like the worst periods

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<v Speaker 2>in human history for this.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is pretty horrific shit.

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<v Speaker 2>And and Luther decides that he's going to like outflank

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<v Speaker 2>the Catholics and anti Semitism, and so he writes this

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<v Speaker 2>book called on the Jews and their Lies, which is like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the first version of this that I wrote had a

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<v Speaker 2>joke here about how it could have been written by Hitler.

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<v Speaker 2>But then I then I like did a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of reading about it and was like, holy shit that

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<v Speaker 2>this specific thing was used by like Nazi Like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure Lutheran pastors specifically justifiedly that the Holocaust in

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<v Speaker 2>like thirty eight. So that's great. Yeah, how cool. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So this is this is you know, this is the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of formation of like what you could call like

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<v Speaker 2>the Protestant counter revolution against the sort of social revolutionary

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<v Speaker 2>forces they kicked off right. Well, the antie sumptus like

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<v Speaker 2>hardline stuff is a bit later, but there's there's one

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<v Speaker 2>more kind of big uprising which is very funny, which

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<v Speaker 2>is that the Anabaptist in Munster who formed this like

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, pretty base democratic commune that eventually kind of

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<v Speaker 2>turns into like a sex cult thing, but like in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that's more like people realize they could be

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<v Speaker 2>poly than it is like normal sex cult people.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's people like like emerging from an extremely constrained

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<v Speaker 3>like socialized sexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, yeah, And you know, so this is like

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<v Speaker 2>this is you know, those are the two sort of

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<v Speaker 2>periods of like high of like the highest levels of

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<v Speaker 2>class conflict that are the result of the prosc information.

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<v Speaker 2>And this kind of ends with Munster when they all

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<v Speaker 2>get killed by the monarchies. And this is something about

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<v Speaker 2>the European peasantry. I don't know, Maybe one day I'll

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<v Speaker 2>do a project and why the European passantry was so

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<v Speaker 2>much worse at doing were volts in the Chinese peasantry

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<v Speaker 2>because the Chinese pasantry knocks off dynasties all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Like the Chinese central government is like one hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 2>times more formidable as a force than like any of

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<v Speaker 2>these dipshit like Holy Roman Empire principalities. But the Chinese

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<v Speaker 2>peasantry did it anyway that I don't know. The German

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<v Speaker 2>peasantry fought hard, it doesn't go great for them.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean the entirety of the European society is

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<v Speaker 3>structured along like the state monopoly on violence. How oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>Like feudalism is like the scene kwandaonn of feudalism is

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<v Speaker 3>having the ability to kill all your peasants.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And it's it's a it's a it's a system.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think this is something that like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this is there's reflection of this you see in sort

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<v Speaker 2>of like fantasy a lot, right, where like people will

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<v Speaker 2>write monarchies and then you'll get like or like he's

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<v Speaker 2>using like the science station right where like people people

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<v Speaker 2>understand what's bad about a democracy because you've all lived

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<v Speaker 2>in one and you know all the ways.

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<v Speaker 4>That it sucks.

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<v Speaker 2>But because most of us like haven't lived under an

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<v Speaker 2>actual monarchy. Well okay, even then even then ye compared

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<v Speaker 2>to this ship.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like people don't understand how just hideous this shit is.

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<v Speaker 4>And this is gonna play a role.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean this this is like again, this is like

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that starts the French Revolution, where the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>That not the first time, but like when people actually

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<v Speaker 2>like start beating the monarchists. Seriously, people to this tendency

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<v Speaker 2>to remember like the violence of French Revolution. It's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of shit that was very bad.

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<v Speaker 2>But also like these people, these people that they are fighting,

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<v Speaker 2>these are these are people who for hundreds and hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>and hundreds of years, anytime anyone has like even dared

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<v Speaker 2>to talk back to them, has just fucking murdered them,

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<v Speaker 2>their families and everyone around them.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like as horribly as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and you know, and like as as the

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<v Speaker 2>process of their them holding on to their fucking deranged

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<v Speaker 2>hereditary power system. And the consequence of this is that once,

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<v Speaker 2>once these revolutions are put down, sort of Processtism versus Catholicism.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's not fully this because it's like there are

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<v Speaker 2>sort of popular e I mean not in the good sense,

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<v Speaker 2>but there are sort of like more mass like Catholicism

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<v Speaker 2>versus proetism stuff, but like a lot of it politically

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<v Speaker 2>becomes the domain of like princes who are either sort

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<v Speaker 2>of running wars that are like nominally religious based, although

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<v Speaker 2>like go look on what side France enters on the

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<v Speaker 2>Thirty Years War in about twenty years when when France

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<v Speaker 2>enters out the side of a Protestants to figure out exactly

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<v Speaker 2>how much right. But like, you know, but this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of conflict becomes this this kind of more the actual

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<v Speaker 2>politics becomes centralized in the ruling class. The metaphor that

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<v Speaker 2>popped in mind to me is one that will make

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<v Speaker 2>sense to about four people. But it's kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>the way that all politics became centralized in the Bath

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<v Speaker 2>Party and Serrie over the course of like the sixties

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<v Speaker 2>and seventies, like all where like you have this mass politics,

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<v Speaker 2>but the only politics that matters is the military and

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<v Speaker 2>the military factions, the military fighting it out. Like that's

0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of what's happening here, is that like all of

0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.280
<v Speaker 2>these princes are sort of centralizing religious power. But this

0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.280
<v Speaker 2>means that like religious wars quote unquote, in conflict becomes

0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.199
<v Speaker 2>the domain of like these coups and counter coups by

0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.720
<v Speaker 2>like princes, and they're like noble factions and shit. Yeah,

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 2>and that's where we find ourselves in the year sixteen

0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.800
<v Speaker 2>oh four, at the beginning of the Gunpowder Treason. And

0:11:57.840 --> 0:11:59.280
<v Speaker 2>but before before we get that, do you know, what

0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.480
<v Speaker 2>else supports the unpowdered treason seventeenth century?

0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.520
<v Speaker 3>Ye, yeah, definitely Chumper casino.

0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, they really major funders.

0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's okay if you lose your money. I jumped

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.120
<v Speaker 3>at casino guys because they're trying to blow up the

0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.200
<v Speaker 3>houses of Parliament.

0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.840
<v Speaker 2>We are back. We are back to the past. We're

0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.040
<v Speaker 2>back to I guess the future of where we were

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:36.680
<v Speaker 2>several seconds before that. So England famously became Protestant when

0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.160
<v Speaker 2>King Henry the Eighth wanted a new wife and the

0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Pope wouldn't let him get a new wife.

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, anohing new wife, right, Like was it like no,

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 3>this this was new ife? Wait, that's a rhyme for

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.959
<v Speaker 3>this divorce divorced, beheaded, survived, had survived. Yeah yeah, I

0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 3>think yeah, it was the first divorced because after that

0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.680
<v Speaker 3>he just went he went ham on the wives.

0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 2>And so through this incredibly silly chain of events, they

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.600
<v Speaker 2>leave the Catholic Church and become Protestants through Anglicanism, which.

0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Is Catholicism light.

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, and I think it's more Catholicism light because

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.960
<v Speaker 2>like Lutheranism also gets described to Becautholicism light. Yeah, but

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I can emphatically state there is a major difference because

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.440
<v Speaker 2>I came, I was raised Lutheran, and I fucking have

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:21.680
<v Speaker 2>no guilt whatsoever, No guilt, zero, I feel bad about nothing.

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 3>It's no shame. Catholicism to England is more or less

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:28.680
<v Speaker 3>Catholicism minus Pope.

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And obviously they differ over time because yeah, because

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.280
<v Speaker 3>it's just the drift of history, they evolved differently.

0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah. But then but this this starts like actual

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>a series of kind of horrendous religious conflicts inside of

0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.360
<v Speaker 2>the UK where just like a bunch of random people

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 2>get killed because once princes become the people controlling religions,

0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 2>everything gets unbelievably stupid really quickly.

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's just a vehicle for like elite fucking ambition,

0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:59.960
<v Speaker 3>yeah right, that they can pick a faction and use

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 3>that to get a little bit higher up the ladder.

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 4>So there's like there's a series of like cups encounter

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 4>coups to attempt to like reinstall Catholic rule or get

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 4>rid of and like it's all really boring, Like it's

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:13.840
<v Speaker 4>it's so boring I cannot have.

0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 3>Like yeah, let me tell you, may I did that

0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 3>in history in school for years somehow I became that

0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 3>to get a PhD in history. But that shit was dull.

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 2>It's it's hideously boring, like which is insane because like

0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>like bloody Mary is involved in this and it's still boring.

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, there's a lot of beheadings. The princes in

0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 3>the Tower famously did a little dead children, a lot

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 3>of a lot of murder.

0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but boring murder, which is staggering. How do you

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 4>make murder boring?

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Easy?

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 4>Ah, you do this shit.

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Shakespeare wrote some good place about this shit. And

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 3>for those of you who are interested, yeah.

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 4>Go go consult that.

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.120
<v Speaker 2>So by sixteen oh four, a group of guys that

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.760
<v Speaker 2>would eventually extend to like thirteen Catholic guys start to

0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 2>form a a frankly not very good plan to do

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 2>a coup and appoint the child king to restore Catholic

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.720
<v Speaker 2>rule to England, the child queen.

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they love a child king.

0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>So this plan has Okay, I'm separating it out into

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 2>three stages. I don't know whether it's fair to, but

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing it. So Part one, use a bunch of

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 2>gunpowder to blow up the English Parliament. Okay, now this

0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 2>is something that's very important to understand what's happening here.

0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 2>This is not a parliament in the sense that we

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>understand it today. Like, this is not like a representative

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.600
<v Speaker 2>body like the parliament is. Basically it's an assembly assembly

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 2>of nobles. Right, It's the instrument of power of the

0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 2>English aristocracy, Yeah, which is one of the greatest forces

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 2>for human evil in the entirety of human like the

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 2>three hundred thousand year history of humanity.

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we don't have it. Britain doesn't have a universal

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 3>franchise until after eighteen thirty two, so.

0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, and this is this is this is sixteen

0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>oh five, yeah, right, like and throughout that whole period

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 2>that the the powers for the aristocracy like ways, but

0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>this is their unbelievably powerful.

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 3>They don't have an universal manhood suffrage even until later

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 3>eighteen forty eight. Before that, every constituency it has its

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 3>own franchise rules, which makes Parliament even fucking weirder.

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 4>Yah.

0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 3>You have some that like proto democratic, and you have

0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 3>some where it's just a guy yep, and he just

0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 3>shows up to Parliament and represents himself. Yeah, it's great.

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So you know this part of the plan the

0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 2>blowing up the parliament plan great, we love it. We

0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.400
<v Speaker 2>support destroying the English aristocracy. Yeah, always great.

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 3>Yet the king, why not it's going to was it

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 3>going to be at the state opening of Parliament?

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it was it was going to be at

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 2>some session of parliament with the King was going to

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:43.920
<v Speaker 2>be there.

0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.920
<v Speaker 3>That was part of parliament. So fun fact, Britain still

0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 3>does this incredibly antiquated.

0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.560
<v Speaker 4>Like barbaric country.

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is where the we need China to conquer

0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 2>the UK and established civilization there, like they like Britain.

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 4>Britain couldn't even do a bourgeois revolution. Do you know

0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.200
<v Speaker 4>how easy it is to do a bourgeois revolution.

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Like Son, Yet Send pulled it on because Britain.

0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 3>Has the most established fucking aristocracy in the world. So,

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.920
<v Speaker 3>oh my god. The body stay opening in Parliament, which

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.240
<v Speaker 3>still happens to this day, right incredibly like antiquated procedure.

0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 3>They search the sellers of Parliament before and no one

0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 3>else is trying to blow them up, like this is

0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.640
<v Speaker 3>now part of the part of the and like there's

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 3>a whole that's like an exchange of hostages, like like

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:35.440
<v Speaker 3>there are all these things that are built in from

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.560
<v Speaker 3>bizarre episodes in British histories. They send someone from Parliament

0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.159
<v Speaker 3>to Buckingham Palace to be like a hostage for the.

0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Duration.

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.639
<v Speaker 5>It's an incredible This is the stupidest system and the

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 5>like it the British The British system, like I think,

0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.399
<v Speaker 5>functionally it is a more advanced democratic system than the

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.440
<v Speaker 5>American system, but in terms of the way that it's

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 5>like seizure works.

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.879
<v Speaker 2>It is like like the American Constitution, which is like

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.199
<v Speaker 2>one of the most progressive constitutions, like a constitution that

0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.879
<v Speaker 2>failed to enshrine one person, one vote. Yeah right, Like

0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 2>that constitution looks like fucking star Trek compared to like

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 2>watching the stupid ass king the hauling around a scepter.

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, some dude bangs three times and then yeah yeah,

0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:26.679
<v Speaker 3>it just gets in there and reads his speech.

0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So so part two of the gunpowder plot is

0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.640
<v Speaker 2>to kill the king, who's going to be there too.

0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.680
<v Speaker 2>This is also great. We like killing the king, and

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 2>the cool Zone media is a pro killing the king

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 2>register establishment.

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 4>Yes, regicide rules, we love it.

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 2>It's great. Part three is to install a Catholic theocracy

0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 2>or a place the Protestant one, and we simply do

0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 2>not love this.

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.919
<v Speaker 3>The ship sucks. That's why we diverge sadly. Yeah, yeah,

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 3>this vote's very bad. Via Vendetta may have misled you

0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.640
<v Speaker 3>about the intentions of Guy Forks.

0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and we'll get to Viva Vendetta because that's I

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 2>think that's an important part of the closing of this story.

0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.600
<v Speaker 4>So the plan falls apart. The plotters get betrayed.

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Guy Fox, who's the guy who's supposed to light the gunpowder,

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.680
<v Speaker 2>gets caught and like tortured, which is really funny because

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:14.359
<v Speaker 2>you'll read accounts.

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.239
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to read a bit from an account from.

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.879
<v Speaker 2>Somewhat dubiously named English Heritage dot org that is like

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 2>they're just quite pretty good on this.

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they like they own lots of like big old

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.240
<v Speaker 3>houses and stuff. Like if you want to go and

0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.080
<v Speaker 3>see like a manor house, you're pretty going to give

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.560
<v Speaker 3>them some money to go in. Like it's it's not

0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.199
<v Speaker 3>like as bad as something named English Heritage could have been.

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.919
<v Speaker 3>Guess it could be a lot more racist in an

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:38.160
<v Speaker 3>open and explicit way.

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, now, but like they to think about this, right,

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 2>is like they don't actually disribe what happened to him

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.639
<v Speaker 2>during his interrogation as torture even though they tortured the

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 2>shit out of this guy. Oh yeah, like the king

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.679
<v Speaker 2>was there, well, they tortured the shit out of this guy.

0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, very unpleasant, I imagine.

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:00.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah.

0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.359
<v Speaker 2>And so eventually, like all the plotters are like either

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.479
<v Speaker 2>captured or killed. And I'm gonna read this from that

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.760
<v Speaker 2>that English Heritage article quote. Each was found guilty and

0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>sentenced to a trader's death by the grizzly ordeal of hanging, drawing,

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.359
<v Speaker 2>and quartering. Oh yeah, the men were hanged. It's so bad.

0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.600
<v Speaker 3>I love this shit. When I was in school, you

0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 3>don't understand how great this is for like eight year

0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 3>old boys.

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but Jesus fucking Christ. So they were hanged, cut

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.439
<v Speaker 2>down while still alive, castrated, dismembered, and beheaded, and then

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.159
<v Speaker 2>their bodies were cut into quarters and displayed for all

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 2>to see and for birds to feast upon. Ye. According

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.840
<v Speaker 2>to all accounts, all face their fates bravely. So these

0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 2>like and it is something that like is genuinely important

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:43.680
<v Speaker 2>to understand because we're going to get to the French

0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Revolution part of the story very soon. These people are

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>fucking dranged. They're like they're psychopaths, like they just they

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.560
<v Speaker 2>do this as public entertainments. Yeah. Yeah, like they hang

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.119
<v Speaker 2>people and then cut them down and castrate them and

0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.360
<v Speaker 2>then dismember and behead them while they're alive, Like they

0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 2>do this like for fun.

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Isn't this the opening scene of uh just spinding

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 3>punished by Fuco? Doesn't he describe it?

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:07.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And like you know, like this is this is

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.200
<v Speaker 2>the thing you have to remember about the French Revolution

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>is that like these are the people who rule Europe

0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.560
<v Speaker 2>for like seven hundred years, oh yeah, or like these

0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.920
<v Speaker 2>motherfuckers and so you know, like they they stopped the

0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.800
<v Speaker 2>gunpowder trees and no one gets blown up, and November

0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 2>fifth like immediately gets declared a holiday, but it's not

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 2>really the same holiday as as we have today. I'm

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna read again from that article quote. Since sixteen seventy

0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 2>three and up until the nineteenth century, some crowds have

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 2>paraded an effigy of the pope through this tree sprung

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:49.400
<v Speaker 2>up above a bonfire. This symbolized continuing prejudice, prejudice towards Catholics,

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 2>which again, like you motherfuckers weren't Catholics until like fucking

0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 2>seven seconds ago. Like what is wrong with you people

0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.479
<v Speaker 2>like I like you, you were all Catholics until your

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 2>king decided to make a fake pope so he could

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 2>get divorced.

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.440
<v Speaker 4>Like what the fuck? Yeah?

0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the antim goes pretty hard, like for.

0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 2>A country where like you, like you were all literally

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Catholics until the king decided you weren't.

0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:17.800
<v Speaker 3>What is it?

0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I hate Christian so much. Shit sucks

0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>so badly.

0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.879
<v Speaker 3>Talking of parades, have you have you read about the

0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.200
<v Speaker 3>Lewis bonfire in Sussex?

0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Okay, they like they go super hard for BM finite.

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:37.720
<v Speaker 3>They also like I think it was the same day

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 3>or something that some Protestants will burned at the steak there. Great,

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.440
<v Speaker 3>they have this big parade where they like they drag,

0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.960
<v Speaker 3>like I think it's burning barrels of like pitch or tar.

0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Possibly those are the same thing they have. Like I'm

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.639
<v Speaker 3>going to invite you to google Lewis Lewis Bonfire and

0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.679
<v Speaker 3>just just tell me what the first image you see is.

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:06.200
<v Speaker 5>Oh Jesus Christ, No, yeah that's correct.

0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, what you see is jump scared.

0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 3>So they don't just burn guy forks in they have

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.560
<v Speaker 3>these big sort of every every year they'll have like

0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:20.560
<v Speaker 3>the person of the year they're going to burn so

0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:25.240
<v Speaker 3>like effigies that they've burned include David Cameron, don't be

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Clarkson except blatter like some of it got surprisingly hard,

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 3>Like I think at some point like there's like a

0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:42.200
<v Speaker 3>formal like they've been investigated by the police. Fake. Nearly

0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.480
<v Speaker 3>all of them are against politicians, so you know, we

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:48.879
<v Speaker 3>probably should have mentioned that they also burned a Romani caravan,

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 3>which is pretty fucking terrible.

0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, speak speaking speaking of burning David Cameron,

0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:56.360
<v Speaker 2>do you know who else burns David Cameron?

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.200
<v Speaker 3>Is it the goods and services that support this podcast?

0:23:59.400 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 6>Great, yeah, yeah, we're now returning.

0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Let's go back to that thing I was reading about

0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:20.400
<v Speaker 2>what happened to them them paying the Pope? Yeah, sontheless?

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:24.240
<v Speaker 2>This symbolized continuing prejudice against Catholics. However, during the French Revolution,

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.439
<v Speaker 2>English and Irish Catholics fought for Britain, which found itself

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:30.200
<v Speaker 2>on the same side of the Pope, and perhaps because

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.720
<v Speaker 2>of this, in around eighteen hundred, Guy Fox seems to

0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.520
<v Speaker 2>have finally entered the picture as the boogeyman of Bonfire Night,

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.680
<v Speaker 2>rather than the Pope. Fox was barely mentioned in fifth

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.040
<v Speaker 2>November sermons in the eighteenth century, and his name doesn't

0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 2>feature in the titles of books attracted four eighteen hundred.

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 2>But after that date his name began to appear, and

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Fox seems to have quickly become a central character in

0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 2>English popular culture, often portrayed as a dashing, doomed anti hero. Yeah,

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 2>and this is a reminder that Protestant isn't versus Catholic.

0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Catholicism is a fucking joke. The ruling class has always

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:05.160
<v Speaker 2>had one religion counter revolution, and when their asses are

0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 2>on the line, Protestant terrorists and Catholic Supreme Court justices

0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:10.400
<v Speaker 2>can work together just find to make sure you can't

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:11.320
<v Speaker 2>get a fucking abortion.

0:25:11.520 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 2>So you know what we have here. And this is

0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.280
<v Speaker 2>an interesting thing in the sense that like, like Guy

0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Fox becoming the guy that Guy Fox Day is about,

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:24.919
<v Speaker 2>and not like the pope is literally an icon of

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of like of kind of revolution.

0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a good point.

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:30.120
<v Speaker 4>Like specifically against a French revolution.

0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 2>But it's interesting because it's like this eventually seems to

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:36.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of have backfired because Guy Fox kind of like

0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:39.879
<v Speaker 2>becomes the central figure. Right but then, and this is

0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 2>something that like This article also mentions that I want

0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.000
<v Speaker 2>to go into more. Everything sort of changes again about

0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:48.440
<v Speaker 2>this when the movie Viva Vendetta gets made.

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's very strange.

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and let's actually so before we do day, can

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 2>you talk a little bit more about like what people

0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>do during Guy Fox Day because it's fun.

0:25:57.880 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally. Yeah, So it is fun.

0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:00.840
<v Speaker 6>It is.

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:04.240
<v Speaker 3>It's a nice like a little as burnings in effigy go,

0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:06.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, a fun one. At least. What we used

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:08.760
<v Speaker 3>to do I grew up in a more rural area

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 3>is we'd all everyone if you had like wood, or

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:14.600
<v Speaker 3>you chop down a tree, you know, on your land,

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:16.720
<v Speaker 3>or you had old furniture, you'd all bring it to

0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:19.199
<v Speaker 3>one place, right, big field, you pilot and you're with

0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 3>it's fucking high. It's like a couple of stories high

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:25.159
<v Speaker 3>by the time down, and then you go down. On

0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:28.320
<v Speaker 3>the fifth of November, everyone gets fireworks. This is where

0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:31.720
<v Speaker 3>I'll tell my fireworks story very amusingly. When I was younger,

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 3>everyone in my village club together to buy one of

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.959
<v Speaker 3>those fireworks displays, you know, where it's like a box

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:39.160
<v Speaker 3>and you light one fuse and they all go off. Yeah.

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:41.119
<v Speaker 3>Oh shit, So we've set that up my dad and

0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:44.680
<v Speaker 3>his mate and we're in the van there. We've lit

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:48.359
<v Speaker 3>it and then we've we're sort of standing there like

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 3>ready to go ooh ah. Unfortunately we've placed it upside down,

0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:57.119
<v Speaker 3>fucking bouncing off the ground and then it flips on

0:26:57.200 --> 0:27:03.120
<v Speaker 3>the side just behind the van and smashing the van.

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, what do you do is you get fireworks,

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:09.639
<v Speaker 3>You shoot them at your friends, you shoot them in

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:13.000
<v Speaker 3>the air. You have a massive bonfire, like and it's

0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:15.199
<v Speaker 3>this is November Britain, right, so you know days are

0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:18.199
<v Speaker 3>short nights so long, everything's wet, so you're using a

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:21.480
<v Speaker 3>lot of petrol to start the bonfire, like, you know,

0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:25.960
<v Speaker 3>irresponsible amountable. You just have a huge fire. And then

0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:29.400
<v Speaker 3>if you have old clothes at least, I'm sure it's

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:31.719
<v Speaker 3>different if you grow up in like a more urban setting.

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:34.560
<v Speaker 3>What we would do is we get old clothes, tie

0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 3>the bottom of the trousers together, tie the wrists together,

0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:43.000
<v Speaker 3>and then you stuffle that with straw bedding that you have, right,

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:45.879
<v Speaker 3>and then you put a head on it pets like

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 3>a bag, like a plastic bag or flower bag. You

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.400
<v Speaker 3>draw a little face on it and that's your guy.

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:54.159
<v Speaker 3>You can go around to people's houses and ask for

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 3>a penny for the guy. That's that had sort of

0:27:56.600 --> 0:28:00.200
<v Speaker 3>become quite old fashioned by the time I was a child.

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:02.399
<v Speaker 3>But you make these guys and then you take them

0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 3>down there and then you you put them on top

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.920
<v Speaker 3>of the bonfire before you light it, and everyone watches

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:11.439
<v Speaker 3>as he catches on fire and burns to death. And

0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 3>you have toffee apples at the other thing, apples and

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:15.160
<v Speaker 3>dipped in toffee.

0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I used to like it.

0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 3>And you have sparklers, you know, which is you know,

0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:21.160
<v Speaker 3>a little sparker on a stick. Yeah, it was fun.

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:23.760
<v Speaker 3>It's got something for every age. A little kid, you

0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:25.359
<v Speaker 3>have a sparker, and then once you get to you know,

0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 3>like ten twelve, you can shoot fireworks at your friends

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.560
<v Speaker 3>and like really it's something for everyone, and I guess

0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:33.160
<v Speaker 3>unless you're Catholic. Yeah.

0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:35.959
<v Speaker 2>But that's the thing though, that the Cathars hasn't been Protestantism.

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 3>It's very secularized.

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like they've been united, they've been united in the

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:41.920
<v Speaker 2>single Greek British religion of kind of revolution.

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.240
<v Speaker 4>So now everyone can celebrate and fox stay together.

0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:48.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's true. And it's supposed to like reinforce the

0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 3>state and be like, if you fuck with the state,

0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:54.160
<v Speaker 3>we will burn you, which Viva Vendetta kind of I

0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:56.000
<v Speaker 3>guess messes with a little bit.

0:28:56.240 --> 0:28:59.520
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, and this I think is actually a really

0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:02.680
<v Speaker 2>interesting process because I think Guy Fox now is most

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:04.960
<v Speaker 2>known for the Guy Fox mask, which was one of

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:06.680
<v Speaker 2>the symbol and the symbol of anonymous and like one

0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 2>of the.

0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 4>Symbols of Yeah, but it wasn't before that.

0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:10.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:12.800
<v Speaker 2>And parts of how this happens is so it is

0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 2>a character named Guy Fox in Alan Moore's view for

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Vendetta and VI for Vendetta is not about a Catholic

0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:21.600
<v Speaker 2>plot to establish the Catholic rule.

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 4>In in Britain.

0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is about like effectively the government of the

0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:28.800
<v Speaker 2>UK is going to have in five years when they

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.240
<v Speaker 2>just like completely descend into fascism. Yeah.

0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:33.960
<v Speaker 3>I would know that far away now, to be honest.

0:29:34.080 --> 0:29:34.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And it's about that government getting overthrown by an

0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 2>anarchist revolution.

0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 2>And it's like this because like you know, Alan Moore

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 2>is a leftist. It's made by the Wachowskis of like

0:29:44.680 --> 0:29:48.000
<v Speaker 2>of Matri's fame, who are also trans leftists. We're gonna

0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 2>close on them actually, but you know, sort of what

0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 2>happens to you, right, is like this mask becomes a

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:55.200
<v Speaker 2>symbol of like kind of like really altogether detached from

0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:57.520
<v Speaker 2>the original figure of Guy Fox and like to the

0:29:57.560 --> 0:29:59.480
<v Speaker 2>form of this movie, Like this becomes the symbol of

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.000
<v Speaker 2>like the twenty eleven like occupy cycle revolutions everywhere, and

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 2>like like one of my most sort of like harrowing

0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>memories like coming up in that movement was of this

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:13.080
<v Speaker 2>like twenty fourteen, everything's covering things. By twenty fourteen, everything's

0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 2>going to shit, right, Like the Serians of War is

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 2>kicked off.

0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:16.800
<v Speaker 4>They were Bob massacrering.

0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Egypt has like slaughtered a bunch of protesters, and Egypt's

0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 2>like just under full military rule. And there's a like

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.800
<v Speaker 2>there are like Palestinian kids like wearing Guy Foss masks,

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.360
<v Speaker 2>and there's like this image that haunts me. There's video

0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:32.560
<v Speaker 2>and an image of it of this kid. Is like

0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>this kid's like seventeen, maybe like sixteen seventeen, like wearing

0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:38.720
<v Speaker 2>this mask and he walks around a cord and this

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>really sniper just fucking shoots him the head. And there's

0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.320
<v Speaker 2>this picture of him with like this just like mask

0:30:44.400 --> 0:30:45.800
<v Speaker 2>with a hole in it next to his face, and

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:47.640
<v Speaker 2>he's just like lying there on the floor, and it's

0:30:48.360 --> 0:30:50.640
<v Speaker 2>like one of the things that is like the reason

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:55.280
<v Speaker 2>why the way I am now is because of that shit. Yeah,

0:30:55.520 --> 0:30:57.560
<v Speaker 2>and you know, in some sense like he's become it

0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>weirdly and enduring danger to the state in way that

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 2>he would be extremely pissed about, which, yeah, very funny

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:04.360
<v Speaker 2>to me.

0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:07.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it started as a graphic novel, right, it was

0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:08.240
<v Speaker 3>a graphic novel before.

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, it was an alanrograp novel.

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:10.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I want to close on on the Wachowskis,

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 2>and specifically I wanted to shout out so again like

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:20.000
<v Speaker 2>the watch House. He's made the movie Viva Vedeta, which

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:22.080
<v Speaker 2>is the thing that like popularized it and is in

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of sense responsible for like the aesthetic of

0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 2>the twenty eleven revolutions. And she's founded a new project

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 2>called Anarchist United. I'm going to quote from an interview

0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 2>with her quote. It will be a studio wholly owned

0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:36.920
<v Speaker 2>by a foundation. It's owned by this five O one

0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 2>C three. The five of one C three provides grants

0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.600
<v Speaker 2>for artists and young filmmakers with marginalized points of view.

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully those people will create stuff, bring it over to

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:46.120
<v Speaker 2>the studio. The studio can make it and then fund

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.480
<v Speaker 2>the foundation. So you create this evergreen operation that can

0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:52.680
<v Speaker 2>hopefully exist outside of the studio system if necessary. And

0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 2>so they're making a bunch of trans shit, like they're

0:31:55.440 --> 0:32:00.800
<v Speaker 2>adapting Gretchen Felken Martin's Manhunt, which is like the transfer

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 2>mass like Book of the Last Like like it's a

0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:07.240
<v Speaker 2>book about trans misogogy and it's getting We're getting a

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 2>fucking adapted. So yeah, it's really cool. And yeah, like

0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I think, I think, I don't know that. That's the

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 2>thing I want to close on is like a note

0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.280
<v Speaker 2>of hope of like even the most deranged kind of

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:23.560
<v Speaker 2>revolutionaries actions against the state and sometimes ricochet around four

0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:28.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred years later into like revolutionary movement.

0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Bounce back into transferm films. And it's like I often

0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:35.080
<v Speaker 3>think about Hunger Games, like, yeah, the Hunger Game symbol.

0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.480
<v Speaker 3>I would love to into the lady who wrote Hunger Games.

0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:41.440
<v Speaker 3>I think she's quite like doesn't like the media attention

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 3>so much from what I've heard. Yeah, but like that

0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 3>became the symbol of the like around the Milky Alliance

0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 3>right in Hong Kong, mean mar obviously even in Thailand

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 3>they use, Yeah, and think it's fascinating how these things

0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.880
<v Speaker 3>have these cultural and like, yeah, they sort of bounce around,

0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:01.640
<v Speaker 3>becomes athing, compete different from what they were.

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:02.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, and and you know it's this weird thing too,

0:33:04.280 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 2>because like the Hunger Games was born of Susan Collins,

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:11.600
<v Speaker 2>like flipping channels between coverage of like the like watching

0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the bombing in the Iraq War and reality TV. Yeah,

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:17.760
<v Speaker 2>I remember reading that and you see and you watch

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:20.040
<v Speaker 2>like this rebound of this, like like the intense reaction

0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.120
<v Speaker 2>of this cultural moment to round two thousand and three,

0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and four, like like what of the peaks

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 2>of American like kind of revolution rebounds route. It's suddenly

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:31.640
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of like a bunch of a bunch of

0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:34.840
<v Speaker 2>revolutionaries of VMBAR are doing the like fucking two Biggers thing.

0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:37.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, doing the Cup Scouts.

0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And so you know, this is one of these

0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:43.280
<v Speaker 2>things where like you know, who knows where where your

0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:46.320
<v Speaker 2>story one day is going to end up in rebound two.

0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:50.080
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, if if if we survived this, we are

0:33:50.240 --> 0:33:52.520
<v Speaker 2>promised that this year was the beginning of the golden

0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:56.320
<v Speaker 2>age of leftist transcenema. So let's let's fucking get their war.

0:33:56.680 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, yeah, if you're in England, enjoy burning it tonight.

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:03.680
<v Speaker 3>If in America, who knows, maybe.

0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Soy birding shit tonight. It could Happen Here is a

0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:12.000
<v Speaker 2>production of cool Zone Media.

0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:15.240
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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<v Speaker 1>fool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

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<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>You can now find sources for it Could Happen here,

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<v Speaker 1>listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.