Speaker 1: Unpacking the toolboxes of production of Schondoland Audio in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Katie Hi Ja Hi Katie Hioka, Curly cook
Speaker 1: curly curly. My second grade teacher used to always missus kaylish.
Speaker 1: She was so mean, but she would always sing cooka Cokatie,
Speaker 1: My beautiful Katie. There's some fucking song, remember I know?
Speaker 1: To you? She would sing it to you to me
Speaker 1: when I entered the classroom game is there any childhood
Speaker 1: song where Guillermo is a name? Hell no, remember romper Room.
Speaker 1: I mean you're suit You're much younger than I am.
Speaker 1: But there was no show called Romper Room. And the
Speaker 1: host in the beginning would look into this magical mirror
Speaker 1: and be like, I see you Tommy and Katie and
Speaker 1: John and Barbara and Ted, and like, how about in
Speaker 1: New York when you go into the trinket stores and
Speaker 1: it's like you can get a little license played or
Speaker 1: a little pencil with like Katie's always on there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's always in a variation of spellings. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: might get Katie, which is how I spell it. There
Speaker 1: might be kat why whatever, But you are just straight
Speaker 1: up fun. No. They would be like, well, get a,
Speaker 1: William William is garm I'm like, is William gear Well?
Speaker 1: William is like the English version of Guillermo. So my friends,
Speaker 1: you know, teachers and um my, my friends I couldn't
Speaker 1: pronounce Giarmo would call me Willie like Willie was my
Speaker 1: name in school, like for you wi l e Willie.
Speaker 1: Oh God, not Willie call you that from now? Please?
Speaker 1: I like it. I actually like it. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: Willie tatted on me. I don't know if you can
Speaker 1: tell Willie Willie Willie William that. Um, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of extra kick and pep in my step today,
Speaker 1: do you why? Well, because we have the most exciting
Speaker 1: guest for our listeners today. I mean we're obsessed with her.
Speaker 1: We're obsessed with her and obsessed with us. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean clearly. I mean, and there is no scandal without
Speaker 1: this person about this person's performance. Yea. And honestly, she
Speaker 1: changed my life in like every way, because well, that's
Speaker 1: just because that's the person she is. I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone who has been lucky enough to spend time with
Speaker 1: the one and only Number one of Scandal could say
Speaker 1: that she hadn't changed their life, because that's just the
Speaker 1: magnitude of human that she is. Yes, she's fucking hilarious. Ye,
Speaker 1: that's the other thing, Like, Okay, she's an activist, she's
Speaker 1: the best actress ever. She's a director, she's a producer.
Speaker 1: She's been on Broadway, she's been in movies. She's led
Speaker 1: the Democratic National Convention. She's ridiculously the accolades and the
Speaker 1: respect and all of that, but girl is fucking hill.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things about Carrie is remember
Speaker 1: laughing with her on set, Like laughing with her was
Speaker 1: so much fun, so so much fun. And look, I
Speaker 1: wear my shirt that says Queen, because Carrie is the queen.
Speaker 1: She's our queen, and she's our queen of Scandal. And
Speaker 1: she also was the best number one. Yes, I honestly
Speaker 1: think this business has ever seen. She's spoiled. Ye spoiled
Speaker 1: all of other TV shows that I was a regular
Speaker 1: la on, which was like two others, But she spoiled
Speaker 1: that for because the amount of you know, class and
Speaker 1: h just a positiveness and respect that I expected from
Speaker 1: my number one after Scandal was like anything that I
Speaker 1: ever got. Yeah. Yeah, it was like you're no Kerry Washington. No,
Speaker 1: I mean she was and also how I behaved on set,
Speaker 1: Like I truly think there was like speeches made. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously you guys have heard on the podcast that well,
Speaker 1: we knew that the end was coming our last season,
Speaker 1: so there were so many goodbyes. But they kept saying
Speaker 1: over and over again that everyone who was lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be on this set could go off into their
Speaker 1: other sets, of their other jobs, knowing that this type
Speaker 1: of family feel and behavior was even possible, and that
Speaker 1: you could strive for that and like exist, you should
Speaker 1: try to have your cast and crew feel like this.
Speaker 1: But my god, this woman, I mean, she didn't. Every
Speaker 1: time she got nominated for an award, which was all lot,
Speaker 1: she would gather the entire crew do you remember this shit?
Speaker 1: Rather gather the entire crew and cast and just like
Speaker 1: make the most beautiful speech about that. It was about
Speaker 1: she did at all the time, but how it was
Speaker 1: everyone like that she was nothing without the rest of us,
Speaker 1: like the and the crew and the grip. She knew
Speaker 1: everyone's names, everyone significant others names, who was expecting children,
Speaker 1: who was purchasing homes, who needed help? Like it was yeah,
Speaker 1: and she would also, Katie, do you remember she would
Speaker 1: when we had background on set. Whenever we had background,
Speaker 1: she would take a moment, either before we started shooting
Speaker 1: or after, to say, Hey, I just want to take
Speaker 1: a minute to say thank you to you guys. Without you, guys,
Speaker 1: we cannot have you know, made scandal, So thank you
Speaker 1: background actors, you oh the world. She always did that,
Speaker 1: and that's the first time I ever saw that on
Speaker 1: set on I've never seen that either. Remember the lawn
Speaker 1: Chair episode with UM. With UM the first one that
Speaker 1: Courtney b Vance, the background actors have to be screaming
Speaker 1: horrific racial slurs because it's about us shooting all this
Speaker 1: and and Carrie is like saying, like, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for your performance. Like I know this is not easy.
Speaker 1: I know this is hard. This is taking so much
Speaker 1: energy and it's hard, ugly things to say. And like
Speaker 1: the girl is a leader. I mean, she's not going
Speaker 1: to run for president, but my good god, if I
Speaker 1: wish she would. We would be so lucky because it's
Speaker 1: not only you can't do yeah, And not only do
Speaker 1: we have Carrie Washington on this episode, we have a
Speaker 1: plethora of other amazing guest actors. One of my favorites
Speaker 1: is Matt Lesher, who plays Jimmy Chambers. Of course, George
Speaker 1: Newberne is in this episode who plays Charlie Freaking Kate
Speaker 1: Burton d oh Brendan Hines as Gideon Wallace, although in
Speaker 1: this episode he Doys did in this episode. Yo Bellamy
Speaker 1: Young is listed as a guest star in this episode
Speaker 1: because she's not a regular yet on the show. Bellamy
Speaker 1: did not become a regular until we got picked up
Speaker 1: for a second season. And by the way, we're talking
Speaker 1: today about episode one oh seven called Grant for the People,
Speaker 1: which aired on May seventeenth and twenty twelve. It was
Speaker 1: written by Shanda Rhymes, our other queen. There were two
Speaker 1: queens to make Scandal, Shawn Carry and it was directed
Speaker 1: by Roxanne Dawson. But at the time that we shot
Speaker 1: this episode, we didn't know we were going to get
Speaker 1: a second No, we had never aired an episode like yeah,
Speaker 1: we shot it and no one had seen it. So
Speaker 1: we were still in this like perfect little bubble where
Speaker 1: we have no clue how the show was going to
Speaker 1: be received. Listen, what I love about our show and
Speaker 1: about our cast is not not one year of our
Speaker 1: seven seasons did I ever or any of us ever
Speaker 1: feel like, ah cool, I'll see you guys next year.
Speaker 1: We were picked up. It was ever after every single
Speaker 1: season we were like, oh please God, I hope we
Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to get picked up. We never got
Speaker 1: cocky about this stuff. Never. We didn't take it for granted,
Speaker 1: no pun intended grant for the people. The name of
Speaker 1: this episode grant taken for granted for the people. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we were always just super humble and just like so great.
Speaker 1: That's because shit rolls down hill and carry. Yeah. Never, yes,
Speaker 1: never took the show, the job, or characters, the writing
Speaker 1: for granted. Before she comes on, which we're obviously tickled. Tickled,
Speaker 1: let me just tell you fill in the rest, which
Speaker 1: is we we said Brendan Hines is on this episode,
Speaker 1: but this be it because he died. We have Bryan
Speaker 1: Lesser is Tom Troy Winbush's Morris Elcott, love him so much.
Speaker 1: Shannon Cochrane is the Attorney General Sawyer. Mark Harrelick is
Speaker 1: the Press secretary. Marvin Colgate, You're fired, Marvin. That's my
Speaker 1: favorite by Aaron. Marvin. Get the fuck out. The synopsis
Speaker 1: is Olivia and the team rally after Quinn finds Gideon
Speaker 1: Wallace dying in his apartment. Cyrus turns to Olivia with
Speaker 1: an anouncement that affects fits his presidency. And that's all
Speaker 1: we're giving you. It's a very short synopsis. What did
Speaker 1: you think of my acting in this episode? Katie? I
Speaker 1: love your act Katie, Katie, listen, can you look my
Speaker 1: my first page of notes, says Katie's performance in the
Speaker 1: scene where she walks in a Gideon and with the
Speaker 1: team is electric. It's guttural and raw. It's mesmerizing, literally
Speaker 1: the stuff that. Really, what are you doing to me? Willie? Willie?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that. I told you. My
Speaker 1: friends called me Willie like for eighteen years of my
Speaker 1: life about you were so so good in this episode, Katie,
Speaker 1: Like truly, I think so. I think you thrive on.
Speaker 1: I think I'm the same too. It was such a
Speaker 1: you had to play all this raw like tragedy like death,
Speaker 1: and I think you you thrive and you just oh,
Speaker 1: you were just so real. Love a high steak moment, people,
Speaker 1: I love a high steak moment. And the shivering you
Speaker 1: were shivering through your lines. Oh my god. If you
Speaker 1: guys have not seen this episode, you gotta watch it.
Speaker 1: It's not just for finale episode of the first season
Speaker 1: and Quinn walks in and sees that giddy She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: great bagel place down thing and like I got your
Speaker 1: coffee and we fucked last night and like woo whoo.
Speaker 1: And then it's like oh no, and the coffee falls
Speaker 1: on the ground, which I remember being on a Friday
Speaker 1: night and they said, you can only do this once.
Speaker 1: I had to nail that coffee drop slip out of
Speaker 1: my hand that spoils everywhere one time. I love it.
Speaker 1: And then I see Giddyon just wow, scissors scissors in
Speaker 1: his neck that Billy Chambers put in there because he
Speaker 1: was really close. So a couple of things I remember
Speaker 1: is A that I had to nail that coffee drop
Speaker 1: once and b I had to reshoot pulling the scissors
Speaker 1: out of his neck. No, why do you remember? No,
Speaker 1: we shot the first season and I get a call
Speaker 1: like months later saying you have to come in, And
Speaker 1: first of all, I was like, I'm fired always every
Speaker 1: time we got that call, I'm fired. After not getting fired,
Speaker 1: they were like, you have to come back in and
Speaker 1: shoot reshoot the Billy Chamber death scene, and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you kidding? That was like the hardest thing I've
Speaker 1: ever done in my entire life, like pulling the scissors out, screaming, crying,
Speaker 1: like trying to reach the phone and realizing he's dead
Speaker 1: because the first angle that they should the way they
Speaker 1: shot it the first time around, it looked like I
Speaker 1: killed him. Oh are you serious? This is my remembering
Speaker 1: of it. We will be back with more after the break, Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: without further a duty, Without further a duty, we would
Speaker 1: like to present We're the stupidest. We would like to
Speaker 1: present the one, the only, the Queen, the the i'm a,
Speaker 1: i'm a I'm getting top drawer. She's top drawer, She's
Speaker 1: tops of everything. She is our friend, she is one
Speaker 1: of the loves of our lives. She is our colleague.
Speaker 1: She is well we would just for real go over
Speaker 1: a cliff for this person. Yes, and also the biggest
Speaker 1: goofball just like us. Yes, here she is the one
Speaker 1: and only. Yeah, hello, you look so beautiful. We're so high.
Speaker 1: Tried to put on some concealer for you, guys. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I prefer the five am, four
Speaker 1: thirty am Monday morning in makeup trailer of Kerry Washington,
Speaker 1: that I miss some rings. I do wake up, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, those were pretty special insane times. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: saw on social media you posted about being in hair
Speaker 1: and makeup with Garma by your side when you guys
Speaker 1: were doing some press, and it's true. It's just like
Speaker 1: you know what I was worried. I was worried that
Speaker 1: when we didn't have the hair and Makeup trailer, that
Speaker 1: we wouldn't all still be obsessed with each other and
Speaker 1: in love with each other, you know, because you have
Speaker 1: like we could just take for granted our friendships because
Speaker 1: they were scheduled, but the fact that we're all still
Speaker 1: so madly in love with each other, it's everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But we were just saying before you came on that
Speaker 1: that comes from you, And I mean, look, we're all
Speaker 1: very special, yes, but you were How did you know
Speaker 1: how to be a number one like that? Like for real?
Speaker 1: Would you think it was like you had worked on
Speaker 1: so many things and had sort of always taken note
Speaker 1: of how to be a leader or it's just innately
Speaker 1: in you. So I'm having a little bit of weird
Speaker 1: Like I feel it's like a proud mommy because I
Speaker 1: feel like when I met you, Katie Lows, you were
Speaker 1: always asking me questions like this, But it wasn't for
Speaker 1: like a national podcast. It wasn't for like right, it
Speaker 1: was for the press. Wasn't you ever have people questions
Speaker 1: not a little bit less like Barbara Walters to it
Speaker 1: and more just like I need to know one. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're so it's so sweet because it's still the
Speaker 1: essence of you, Like you have figured out a way
Speaker 1: to you know, stay, like you are just a naturally curious, yes,
Speaker 1: very you know, inquisitive, adventurous, ambitious person. So you have
Speaker 1: it's like, but it's no longer that five am version
Speaker 1: of like you this, it's like now this very formal
Speaker 1: presentational version, which I love, Thanks Carrie. I have I
Speaker 1: think the number one, number one in the whole history
Speaker 1: of number ones in the business. And do people know
Speaker 1: what it means to be a number one on the
Speaker 1: call sheet? Like do we have to explain that? Let's
Speaker 1: explain it. So every character is assigned a number on
Speaker 1: the call sheet based on how important that character is
Speaker 1: perceived to be on the show, and sometimes relative to
Speaker 1: the status of the actor playing them. And so if
Speaker 1: you're number one on the call sheet, you're like the
Speaker 1: most important character according to the writers. And the producers.
Speaker 1: So I learned how to be a number one. I've
Speaker 1: had incredible number ones I've worked with through the years.
Speaker 1: Julia Stiles is an amazing number one. Force Whittakers an
Speaker 1: incredible number one, But hands down, the award for number
Speaker 1: one number one goes to Jamie Fox. He's a beast
Speaker 1: he is. He not only like does his homework, is
Speaker 1: fully prepared, is always happy to be there, really passionate,
Speaker 1: knows everybody's name, he takes care of the background. He's grateful,
Speaker 1: he's humble, he works really hard. He's all of those things.
Speaker 1: And you know, I worked with him on Ray and
Speaker 1: then ten years later on Jay Go, and so I
Speaker 1: got his seed. Like it really is who he is.
Speaker 1: He's just like Wow, he's a leader. He's a true
Speaker 1: leader and a generous leader. And he loves his job
Speaker 1: like he really he loves He gets that we're lucky
Speaker 1: to do what we do, and he never let a
Speaker 1: day go by without us all feeling that. And so
Speaker 1: I think, really, I just spent all those seasons on
Speaker 1: Scandal pretending to be Jamie FOXX. Hey, we love it.
Speaker 1: We were talking earlier carry about how you either before
Speaker 1: we shot a scene or after you would take a
Speaker 1: moment to address the background actors and just be like,
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for being here. We could
Speaker 1: not have done this scene without you, guys, just the
Speaker 1: respect you showed background actors. And for someone who started
Speaker 1: in background work, I did a ton of background work before.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I didn't know that I was in
Speaker 1: Green Card, I was in I did background work on
Speaker 1: student films even yeah, and then a little by Little Butt.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's rare that the lead actor or
Speaker 1: even producers or directors, you know, unfortunately, treat background actors
Speaker 1: with any sort of you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the sure like yes, yes, but you are the first,
Speaker 1: so important to scenes. Oh my gosh, can you imagine
Speaker 1: if we didn't have those background actors in the White House,
Speaker 1: we're just like a bunch of idiots and hallways like yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like so dumb. It's like you're making s ten yes.
Speaker 1: And how many times have you watched something where the
Speaker 1: background totally ruins the scene. I don't believe any of
Speaker 1: those people are at a party. I don't believe any
Speaker 1: of those people are, you know, walking like background, looking
Speaker 1: at the camera. Background. They're so vital to the very similitar. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you could tell on our show, you can tell
Speaker 1: invested in what they're doing today. Just to jog your
Speaker 1: memory is about episode one oh seven, which is like,
Speaker 1: who is Quinn Perkins? Quinn pulls the night scissors out
Speaker 1: of Gideon's throat. Yeah, and I there's the scene where
Speaker 1: everyone is deciding, yeah, I'll jog your memory. I'll jog
Speaker 1: your memory. Everyone's like, do we don't they clean it up?
Speaker 1: Do we don't? Right? And you're like, we clean it up.
Speaker 1: But it was the example of an opa. It wasn't
Speaker 1: so much about character development. Maybe it was for other people,
Speaker 1: but not for me as much as it was like
Speaker 1: an ensemble theater piece of like do not drop your line,
Speaker 1: especially this is pace. Yes, this is like everyone has
Speaker 1: got one line, two lines, like, and it was keeping
Speaker 1: a ball or we got together on the weekend to
Speaker 1: rehearse yes, yes, yes, about because because it was a
Speaker 1: play play, we all thought it was a act play.
Speaker 1: And I remember Betsy Beers being like, you guys, did
Speaker 1: what our producer bring, Like, yeah, we've never heard of that,
Speaker 1: that's bananas, But we just it was a play. It
Speaker 1: was a one act play, and we were a bunch
Speaker 1: of theater kids who had been lucky enough to find
Speaker 1: ourselves on some screens, and so we got up together
Speaker 1: on our own to rehearse. I think back to that
Speaker 1: and just think we were so lucky that none of
Speaker 1: us had done a ton of prime time at work
Speaker 1: television show to know that we weren't supposed to do that.
Speaker 1: We're so lucky what we didn't know because and I think,
Speaker 1: but before Scandal, the job I'd had before Scandal, it
Speaker 1: was a movie, but the but right before I just
Speaker 1: it was a movie, but right before that they start
Speaker 1: before Scandal. I wanted to ask you that why TV.
Speaker 1: I originated a role in David Mammitt's play Race, and
Speaker 1: to this day, I feel like one of the reasons
Speaker 1: why God put me in that play was to figure
Speaker 1: out how to do that mammt thing, like how to
Speaker 1: affor them, how to say the word has written no
Speaker 1: matter what, how to get out of the way of
Speaker 1: the language. Because I felt like I brought so much
Speaker 1: of that with me to Scandal. The work ethic that
Speaker 1: you had on Scandal was to me, and I'm not one,
Speaker 1: but was like like being an Olympic athlete, which is
Speaker 1: what you are when you do Broadway, like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: do a race or you do a scandal, and you're
Speaker 1: a number one, like you are a machine. You can't
Speaker 1: get sick, you can't not know your life lines like
Speaker 1: it's so everyone is. It's like you're yeah, there's Me
Speaker 1: and Katie were talking about earlier and in other episodes
Speaker 1: that we've done, how you know we'd see you in
Speaker 1: the hair makeup trailer. You'd be on set, but you
Speaker 1: were always running lines. And Katie brought up you were
Speaker 1: running lines sometimes for the next scene. Oh yeah, yeah, next.
Speaker 1: They were like monologues. You'd be like, let's go to
Speaker 1: the next scene, Let's go to tomorrow's scene. Like it
Speaker 1: was like you had to do that shit non stop.
Speaker 1: I know every since Scandal, when somebody come up comes
Speaker 1: up to me on the set and says like, I'm
Speaker 1: really sorry, I know it's a lot today, I laughed
Speaker 1: like this is nothing. Yeah, oh my gosh. When you
Speaker 1: got the Scandal script, why television, why this script, why
Speaker 1: this part? And how did you get it? So everybody
Speaker 1: knew about this script, Like every black woman in Hollywood
Speaker 1: between the ages of like nine to ninety nine, everybody
Speaker 1: wanted it we knew it was like a historic, once
Speaker 1: in a lifetime kind of opportunity. I heard about it
Speaker 1: through the grape vine. My manager, who both know Caty,
Speaker 1: called me and she was like, there's this new Shanda
Speaker 1: Rhyme show. It starts a black woman. We feel like
Speaker 1: you're really right for it. But Shanda, I think Shanda
Speaker 1: said I was too young because the character was written
Speaker 1: to be in their forties, which I'm in my forties now,
Speaker 1: so at the time it was like I might be
Speaker 1: too young for it. But it felt when I read it,
Speaker 1: I literally did that thing which sounds so cliche, but
Speaker 1: I did that thing where I threw it across the
Speaker 1: room at some point because I was like this, like
Speaker 1: this was written for me, Like nobody asked to be
Speaker 1: playing this role. But and but I also knew that
Speaker 1: like there were forty other actresses who felt exactly the
Speaker 1: same and like really amazing actresses who I admire and love,
Speaker 1: and peers of mind and people I looked up too,
Speaker 1: and we all just read. We all just you know, read.
Speaker 1: And at first I met with Shanda actually because I
Speaker 1: was I had done a bunch of movies and so
Speaker 1: my team had negotiated a meeting first. So I went
Speaker 1: in and I remember getting off the elevator and seeing
Speaker 1: this huge sign that said Shonda Land and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know how this is gonna go. Like this
Speaker 1: seems a lot. Yeah. I was like, I like give
Speaker 1: up my citizenship and moved to somebody's land. And I
Speaker 1: was nervous. I was like, gosh, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: had done a couple arcs on television, but I'd obviously
Speaker 1: never been in a series. I'd done two other pilots
Speaker 1: that I got fired from. Really, yes, but so I
Speaker 1: met with Shanda for all the actors listening, My god,
Speaker 1: is that like a hopeful Yeah. The two other pilots
Speaker 1: I did before Scandal I was fired and both showed
Speaker 1: why because you were two talents that are too beautiful. No,
Speaker 1: both shows wet, but they replaced me. You know why,
Speaker 1: probably because they knew you were a star and you
Speaker 1: were stealing it from the rest. No, it was a
Speaker 1: little bit and Gamo, I know will identify with this.
Speaker 1: One of them was like they they wanted it to
Speaker 1: be a more like Girl from the Hood version of
Speaker 1: the character, and I was like, I just don't see
Speaker 1: it that way. And they were like, well, then you
Speaker 1: don't ask me. Yeah exactly. But the other one, I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure what happened, but yeah, so I so
Speaker 1: I met with Shawanda. I sat down and I loved
Speaker 1: her immediately. I just loved her immediately. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's so lovely, and Betsy was so lovely, and she
Speaker 1: said to me, you know, if this goes well, this
Speaker 1: could be like a seven year commitment. And I was like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: what happened? I just thought that's going to happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this shows barely getting out the air one as a lead, like,
Speaker 1: let's let's take it one day. Yeah exactly. But I
Speaker 1: fell in love with her, and then of course I
Speaker 1: was like, i'll read. I'll read one hundred times if
Speaker 1: you want me to. And then I did read about
Speaker 1: a hundred times. My friend Colleen Bassis was my acting
Speaker 1: coach for the audition. She best. She's still an acting coach,
Speaker 1: so people seek her out if you're looking. And so
Speaker 1: I got to the fine screen tests. I think it
Speaker 1: was down to me and two other actresses, two or
Speaker 1: three other actresses, but I remember like the intensity around
Speaker 1: it because we all knew these opportunities were few and
Speaker 1: far between and when I got the call that it
Speaker 1: was mine, I just was I was just being I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I felt like the luckiest human being on the planet,
Speaker 1: just so blasted I was, you know, I felt so lucky.
Speaker 1: You know, when I knew it was gonna be well,
Speaker 1: I never knew. I didn't know it was going to
Speaker 1: be a hit until the middle of second season when
Speaker 1: we were out in public and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: women were throwing themselves at Tony Goldwyn and I was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is happening. But before that, your dad,
Speaker 1: Earl said something like I know when I'm making this
Speaker 1: up in my head, but it was something like I said, say,
Speaker 1: the Last Dance was going to be the biggest thing ever,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying it right here, right now, Scandal is
Speaker 1: going to be huge, almost like Earls got the crystal ball.
Speaker 1: He knows. And by the way, like, you know, my dad.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because my dad is such a a dreamer.
Speaker 1: He's like he really sees beyond the possibilities of what's
Speaker 1: real and so like that, you know, he gave me
Speaker 1: permission to dream big in my life. You know, I
Speaker 1: always feel like my mother's the one who taught me
Speaker 1: how to be practical and work ethic, But my dad
Speaker 1: gave me that ability to be the big dreamer. And
Speaker 1: he really he saw the potential of this show from
Speaker 1: the beginning, which I'm so great, but he and he
Speaker 1: would whenever we would encounter your parents. They were the
Speaker 1: biggest fans of the show. They were the biggest I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll stay right here with you guys. Your dad was
Speaker 1: like and your mom were like, we love Hook, yes,
Speaker 1: and give me so much love. And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. But he was sincere and honest. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like, you know, like, oh, it's Carrie's parents saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: we love the show, you were great on it. They
Speaker 1: were truly like, no, sit down for a second with me,
Speaker 1: and let's talk about Hook because he's special around. There's
Speaker 1: scandal like raincoats. Yes, they they're set jackets. They still
Speaker 1: wear them. You know. My dad has a bit of
Speaker 1: an obsession with Scott Foley. I think I told you
Speaker 1: he's in he's in love. My father's in love. One
Speaker 1: day we were in the car, my parents were visiting
Speaker 1: set as always, and um and I was driving them
Speaker 1: home from set, and my little green Prius and I
Speaker 1: remember and my dad super quiet on the ride, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he says, you know what, I
Speaker 1: think that it was Scott Foley's nose that Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: was going for random. I love it, Dad thinks about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the heat that, like Scott Folly has the epitome
Speaker 1: of like a gorgeous Anglican male. If the richest, you know,
Speaker 1: talented pop star in the world was like I could
Speaker 1: pick any nose in the world, it would be Scott foleys.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Dad, you're obsessing about Scott Folly's
Speaker 1: nose on the way home. So funny. We'll be right back, guys. Wait.
Speaker 1: In one oh seven is the episode where Carrie found
Speaker 1: out that Gearmo Diaz liked boys. Yeah, this episode, I'll
Speaker 1: never forget it because she went the whole first season
Speaker 1: not knowing. I hate that. I hate that because I
Speaker 1: don't want you to have one moment of feeling like, well,
Speaker 1: why don't you tell me? You know? No, I'm just
Speaker 1: such you know what it is, because I you know,
Speaker 1: I put my head in the sand with the work.
Speaker 1: I'm just like so in the work, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: as into the gossip, which I also was a little
Speaker 1: strategic because I was like, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: in the gossip. I kind of want to be Switzerland
Speaker 1: when it comes to the castle. Ye. So, but I
Speaker 1: remember turning to you and saying like, so, Gearmo, do
Speaker 1: you have a girlfriend. And I was like, kind of,
Speaker 1: I don't remember. He's so sexy and he's so funny
Speaker 1: and he's so smart and I'm taken, but boy, like
Speaker 1: I set him up if he's out with somebody's so hot.
Speaker 1: You also, you were you were more quiet for season.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not only like Carrie was not. You know,
Speaker 1: that was a great player, but Garmo also wasn't. Like
Speaker 1: the only reason I knew was because I was like,
Speaker 1: where do you live? And he was like close to
Speaker 1: the parade, and I was like, what parade are you?
Speaker 1: You're talking about Saint Patrick? And I was game, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. It was that seeky way of coming out.
Speaker 1: Do you think, well, Santa Monica, like you know, it's great,
Speaker 1: Like that's like he either said him right by the paraders.
Speaker 1: So I go to the parade and I was like,
Speaker 1: what parade are we told? But also you guys got
Speaker 1: to remember I was born in the eighties like I was,
Speaker 1: you know, a teenager, and in my twenties during a
Speaker 1: time where this ship wasn't like people were like, all great,
Speaker 1: last time you and your boyfriend over, or like I
Speaker 1: was still very like guarded and like I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is gonna change. Play all the roles people know, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: such a trailblazer, and such a trailblazer, like being out
Speaker 1: letting people not and also like just saying, actually, now
Speaker 1: that I think about it, I think that you were
Speaker 1: really inspiring for me in terms of like when I
Speaker 1: got to a place where I was like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to deny my personal life, but I also
Speaker 1: don't need to plaster it everywhere like you were. Just
Speaker 1: I'm living my life for me. I'm in my truth
Speaker 1: for me. I'm not going to hide who I am,
Speaker 1: and I'm still going to play all the roles like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna be with women, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: with men. I'm gonna be all of who I am
Speaker 1: and as an artist and also be in my truth
Speaker 1: as a human. So that means, oh, garmo is I
Speaker 1: remember running home and being like, oh is he out publicly,
Speaker 1: because even at the beginning of Scandal, I feel like actors,
Speaker 1: I think even a lot has changed in the last
Speaker 1: ten years, and I hope it continues to do so.
Speaker 1: But I can remember in the beginning of Scandal me
Speaker 1: being like, I don't know if he's like out publicly,
Speaker 1: because I think that that's like a choice that actors
Speaker 1: make and whether or not they are do you talk
Speaker 1: about it or don't, And it's like a whole fucking thing.
Speaker 1: And I remember going home and being like, oh no,
Speaker 1: he's like really like out publicly. He's been in like
Speaker 1: gay magazines and like all this time. I remember the
Speaker 1: time I had done a movie called Stonewall about the
Speaker 1: Stone all riots nine and I was the lead. I
Speaker 1: was a drag queen in it, and I remember my
Speaker 1: managers saying, you have to make a choice. Are you
Speaker 1: you're gonna be doing a lot of press. Are you
Speaker 1: gonna say you're gay? We think you shouldn't say you're gay,
Speaker 1: or are you gonna say you're you're straight? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And I had to make it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way I'm freaking lying. And
Speaker 1: from that point on, I was like I don't care, like,
Speaker 1: this is who I am. If people don't want to
Speaker 1: work with me, then fine, then I don't want to
Speaker 1: work with them either. But I was like, I cannot
Speaker 1: be that person who's like, oh, there's no way, I'm
Speaker 1: too anxious for that ship. I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: when I'm going back and watching these episodes, which honestly
Speaker 1: carry you like not being my friend in one of
Speaker 1: the great loves of my life, I cannot believe the
Speaker 1: acting you did in this part. You remember, like before
Speaker 1: the pilot, building all these things like her walk and
Speaker 1: her like neck tilt of like, and I just can't
Speaker 1: believe the person you built in your preparation for her.
Speaker 1: Did you coach with someone build her from the outside in?
Speaker 1: Was it you're fitting with Lynn Paolo? Like? How? Or
Speaker 1: did she? Was it a slow burn? Like I like,
Speaker 1: how did she come to be? No? It was actually
Speaker 1: really interesting. I remember I remember working with Colleen on
Speaker 1: the audition, and I felt like, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of times when you are just meeting material. For me,
Speaker 1: the first work for that first hour was like what
Speaker 1: do I know about this? Where do I connect with her?
Speaker 1: How do I reveal myself in this? Right? Like? How
Speaker 1: do I find the places where she and I meet
Speaker 1: and then let the rest of it kind of fall away.
Speaker 1: So it was a lot of bringing myself to it.
Speaker 1: But also that point in my career I had developed
Speaker 1: sort of Red Carpet Carrie who was a version of me.
Speaker 1: But it was like the version of me that I
Speaker 1: was learning to cultivate that wore fancy outfits and could
Speaker 1: go to all these premiers of all these movies I
Speaker 1: was in, and so she was like a larger than
Speaker 1: life version of me who stood differently and walked differently,
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, Olivia Pope was like
Speaker 1: her presentation of self in the world was a little
Speaker 1: bit Red Carpet Carrie, and then her her inner messy
Speaker 1: emotional life was more my inner, messy emotional life. So
Speaker 1: that was kind of the job in the pilot. But
Speaker 1: then I remember meeting with Susan Batson again. I trained
Speaker 1: with Susan Batson and with Colleen Barry. Barry at the
Speaker 1: time maybe no basis to her Mary name is basis,
Speaker 1: but training with both of them for the audition, and
Speaker 1: I remember saying to Susan after I got it, how
Speaker 1: do I do this for all these episodes? Now because
Speaker 1: I don't want to just be myself on TV, like
Speaker 1: I have to figure out how to be specific about
Speaker 1: where she ends and I begin. I felt like I
Speaker 1: didn't have to be that specific in the pilot. I
Speaker 1: was willing to be really messy about that. But I
Speaker 1: was like, if I don't start to have some delineation
Speaker 1: about where she and ten months of the year, like,
Speaker 1: that's now I go back to myself. You know, how
Speaker 1: do I return to who I am? So the clothes
Speaker 1: helped a lot. The shoes, like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you guys remember, but I would roll up up set
Speaker 1: at crew call and be in sweatpants, but I always
Speaker 1: had to have my foot on your heel. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember you never ever ever, First of all, opposite
Speaker 1: I'm a hack. I didn't wear my shoes as long
Speaker 1: as humanly possible, which actually, you know what, no fuck that,
Speaker 1: I'm not a hack. I've heard that Viola Davis does
Speaker 1: all of her Bessie and barefoot or an ugs because
Speaker 1: there either Harry and Olivia. Pope was like, I've never
Speaker 1: I never saw you in rehearsal without your shoes on. No,
Speaker 1: I felt like they were really important for how to
Speaker 1: stand and how to walk, and then I figured out
Speaker 1: how to be her barefoot in my apartment. But but
Speaker 1: I always had to come if if I was going
Speaker 1: to be in shoes in the scene, I had to
Speaker 1: be in her shoes otherwise I wouldn't know where in
Speaker 1: the room I would be. I just w that was
Speaker 1: sort of a real way into her, and all the
Speaker 1: cost seems were a huge part of it, Lynn Pawlow,
Speaker 1: because I felt like that was her armor the way
Speaker 1: you know her her expertise was storytelling and narrative and
Speaker 1: how people present in the world. So I knew that
Speaker 1: how she presented in the world had to be really specific,
Speaker 1: really on point, elegant, smart. So yeah, all that stuff
Speaker 1: really really really really helped. And then giving over to
Speaker 1: the language, you know, in that like David mahmit way
Speaker 1: and that Shana Ram's way, like just giving over to
Speaker 1: the language. She she was there, she was in the world.
Speaker 1: I don't speak like that, but she's in the words. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when when something is written really well, it's it
Speaker 1: flows out of your mouth so easily, it's so satisfying,
Speaker 1: it's like delicious to say the words. Right. This chemistry
Speaker 1: between you and Tony Goldwin is the stupidest shit I've
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. Like, I'm so wildly uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I can't believe how good it is. I can't believe
Speaker 1: how steamy it is. I love you both as people
Speaker 1: and individuals. I can't even believe what was happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, Like in the pilot, you guys make
Speaker 1: out in the corner beneath like a curtain, and then
Speaker 1: in to get away from the cameras, and then in
Speaker 1: this episode the finale, again you look up and you
Speaker 1: have a kiss, and he says to jog your memory, Like,
Speaker 1: if I resign or if I get arrested, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: for sleeping with Amanda Tan or whatever, at least I
Speaker 1: can be a normal person. I can be with you
Speaker 1: and you like my kiss. But oh, we've also in
Speaker 1: season two, which Gamon and I are were ahead, you know,
Speaker 1: because we're such prepared people and learning number one. We
Speaker 1: just watched the episode. I also just watched the episode
Speaker 1: where you and he were like screwing in the break
Speaker 1: room that has all the cool green Yes, Christening, it
Speaker 1: was your prisoning outfit. It was sort of like nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: It was a very beautiful Jackie. Oh exactly what killed
Speaker 1: me about this chemistry thing? Tell me about you and Tony.
Speaker 1: Did you ever talk about it or were you just
Speaker 1: like it's bigger than both of us and thank god
Speaker 1: because it made everyone want to watch the show. Um,
Speaker 1: it's such a good question. I don't think we talked
Speaker 1: about it because I don't think we knew until audiences
Speaker 1: were watching it. We were just like two actors doing
Speaker 1: our job. It wasn't like the first time, no, you
Speaker 1: know what the maybe I need to be honest. That
Speaker 1: is how we felt on set. But when we camera tested,
Speaker 1: when we did hair and makeup tests for the show,
Speaker 1: we did had yeah, weber that. I remember like doing
Speaker 1: the thing you walk on camera, you're in the clothes
Speaker 1: and with the hair, and then Tony comes in and
Speaker 1: we're walking together, and I remember Shanda and Betsy freaking
Speaker 1: out at the monitors and I was like, what's happening
Speaker 1: And they were like, you guys are just magic together
Speaker 1: and we were like, okay, so we have this sense,
Speaker 1: but I knew Tony. So Tony and I had both
Speaker 1: done a lot of work with this organization called the
Speaker 1: Creative Coalition, which is a political advocacy organization ironically, and
Speaker 1: he was co president at the time, and so my
Speaker 1: I had never worked with Tony as an actor, but
Speaker 1: our interactions as human beings had been walking up and
Speaker 1: down the halls of Congress and at the White House
Speaker 1: talking to people about arts funding and arts for the
Speaker 1: humanity and funding for the humanities, and so I had
Speaker 1: we had this like weirdly DC context for each other,
Speaker 1: and we had a great deal of respect for each
Speaker 1: other as like thinking human beings and as politically minded individuals,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I remember saying to Saanda, like,
Speaker 1: who's going to be the president on the show? Like,
Speaker 1: who's going to be the president? And I learned at
Speaker 1: some like CIA. It was either at their Oscar party
Speaker 1: or their Emmy party, and Tony's manager was there and
Speaker 1: he came up to me and he was like, Tony's
Speaker 1: doing it, and I was like, yes, just because I
Speaker 1: knew how smart he was and he felt and Shonda
Speaker 1: said to me she felt like he was the right
Speaker 1: person because he had directed at Gray's early on, and
Speaker 1: she knew that whoever was going to play the president
Speaker 1: was somebody who had to have executive like somebody who
Speaker 1: felt like they could tell people what to do, like
Speaker 1: they could boss people around and have like, you know,
Speaker 1: real intelligence and leadership. And she had seen that in
Speaker 1: him as a director, so I had a lot of
Speaker 1: respect for him. I loved him already as a person,
Speaker 1: and we just hoped it worked. We just we hoped
Speaker 1: it worked. And you can't really plan that stuff, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't plan that your chemistry is going
Speaker 1: to work on camera? Really, no, right, I will say
Speaker 1: for me, I and this is I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: of a chemistry slut, like I am. I do. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say it, but you're good at it.
Speaker 1: I never worry about having chemistry. Was the only time
Speaker 1: I can't have chemistry with an actor is if that
Speaker 1: actor has decided that they don't want to have chemistry
Speaker 1: with me. And I've been in those situations like walking
Speaker 1: into an audition where it's like down to me and
Speaker 1: one other girl and the lead actor has clearly wants
Speaker 1: the other girl, and I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, here's what.
Speaker 1: I don't have chemistry if they if I don't like
Speaker 1: their smell, Like I'm just such a pheromone person, and
Speaker 1: I have been teamed up. I've been like I've had
Speaker 1: so many love interests on different things, and sometimes I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like, I don't know this so like
Speaker 1: and I am acting and I'm just like acting so
Speaker 1: much because I have what I call the ick for
Speaker 1: like the person, like I just like have this, like
Speaker 1: I don't want to. But then I'm like, okay, it's
Speaker 1: a paycheck, it's pyech like, let's do this. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: that's so there. Here's the other thing that and you
Speaker 1: we would have to im sorry you say chemistry slunt,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? It means like that when it
Speaker 1: comes to finding ways to love a character. For for
Speaker 1: me to feel like my character really loves or likes
Speaker 1: another character, I don't find that hard. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's the aquarious in me that like, I
Speaker 1: just really like people and I see the good in
Speaker 1: people and I like it. I like a lot of
Speaker 1: different kinds of people, and so I don't I don't
Speaker 1: usually have a hard time. In the history of Schaele,
Speaker 1: There's maybe been one actor where I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: let's not I guess. I guesses most of the love
Speaker 1: interests are like, you know, there are guys that I
Speaker 1: get along with, and so you're like I can figure
Speaker 1: this out, Like, yeah, it's sort of this idea of
Speaker 1: like there's somebody for everybody. Everybody's lovable in some way.
Speaker 1: Can you look for the thing that's like that person's
Speaker 1: not for me, right, like, not everybody's for me, am
Speaker 1: I really, but for their character you can fall in
Speaker 1: love with something in them that you can get you.
Speaker 1: And also your chemistry was not only great with love
Speaker 1: interest people, but it was also great with like Quinn
Speaker 1: and with oh my god, Abby this friendship. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and also Scott Foley right like that, and it was sod,
Speaker 1: are you team fits or you know like that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's very I think that that also both of those guys,
Speaker 1: by the way, are I'm so lucky to have been
Speaker 1: able to have those two guys because they're the best, dude.
Speaker 1: But that's such a great example, right, because they're also
Speaker 1: so different, like Scott Foley and Tony Goldwin. You could
Speaker 1: not find completely different different. But I was like, I'll
Speaker 1: figure this out with these guys and their characters, I
Speaker 1: will say, and we should ask Tony's permission before we
Speaker 1: whether this should stay in or not. But one of
Speaker 1: the amazing things that happened though, was I think it
Speaker 1: was during season two. Tony said something. We were in
Speaker 1: like one of our canoodling bedroom scenes in Olivia Polpe's bed,
Speaker 1: and he said something we were talking about like life
Speaker 1: and love and marriage, just like talking and he said
Speaker 1: something that I said, Oh, that's so interesting, because my
Speaker 1: therapist said something like that to me last week. And
Speaker 1: he looked at me and he said, who's your therapist.
Speaker 1: We found out that we had the same tree. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, oh god, the odds of that. He wasn't
Speaker 1: currently seeing this person but I still was, and you
Speaker 1: mention it to the therapist. My therapist was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. Like he was like, there's not a surprise
Speaker 1: to me, but of course he couldn't have told me. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but isn't that great? And it also helped so much
Speaker 1: because I had I felt like, you know, Tony and
Speaker 1: I had such great boundaries, boundaries with each other, like
Speaker 1: we were able to be in this like incredibly romantic space,
Speaker 1: but our boundaries as adult, as like responsible human beings
Speaker 1: were very clear. The ultimate respect for his wife, He
Speaker 1: is the ultimate respect for my husband. Like we there
Speaker 1: was never any despite the tabloids, there was never any
Speaker 1: messy between he and I. We were like really responsible,
Speaker 1: accountable grown ups, you know, respectful of each other in
Speaker 1: each other's lives while still like taking those deep risks
Speaker 1: as actors. And also what a scary thing to be
Speaker 1: Like most people, if you get paired up as a
Speaker 1: love interest in a movie or something like the thing
Speaker 1: is over in three months or whatever. But for you
Speaker 1: to have a love interest that's seven years long, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's insane. After like, that's like in stat or my husband,
Speaker 1: Tony Goldwin is the person in my life who I've
Speaker 1: made out the longest because the boyfriend I was with
Speaker 1: but seven years, four or five years. Yeah, Tony after
Speaker 1: Godwin's the guy that I, you know, kiss the weird
Speaker 1: so so weird while weird so weird. This is the
Speaker 1: last episode in this season and the last episode, I
Speaker 1: guess of season one of Unpacking the Toolbox. This podcast
Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox so cute because of you guys and
Speaker 1: your toolbox. Yeah, so there's this, like I think the
Speaker 1: winning scene of this episode is so we had mentioned
Speaker 1: you and fits sort of kiss and you're like you
Speaker 1: look up and you're like cameras and he's like I
Speaker 1: don't give a shit, and you guys kiss anyway, because
Speaker 1: guess what if I go to jail or I resign,
Speaker 1: I can be whoever I want to be and I
Speaker 1: can marry you. And then you see Olivia sort of
Speaker 1: make the decision like, oh, hell no, this isn't going
Speaker 1: to happen. So you go to Melly and you two
Speaker 1: have Bellamy's like first big scene. At this time, Bellamy
Speaker 1: is not a serious and the scene is like, you
Speaker 1: didn't do your job. You let that girl get in
Speaker 1: you let that girl, Amanda tan Or get in his pants.
Speaker 1: I'm doing I'm working my fucking ass off as the
Speaker 1: face and the wife and this that and the other thing.
Speaker 1: And you've fucked up. You stopped being his mistress and
Speaker 1: you let him get away, and this is all your
Speaker 1: fault that he wants to resign. And this is really
Speaker 1: where we see Bellamy step into Melly, and from that
Speaker 1: scene you go and arrange a with with fits not
Speaker 1: even having a say in it. You arrange a interview
Speaker 1: on national television where she says that was me on
Speaker 1: the sext right clothes, and so I'm so embarrassed. This
Speaker 1: is how Olivia and her planned together, working together to
Speaker 1: spin it, which is we're seeing the beginning of how
Speaker 1: we ended the series with Melie together, that you're doing this.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. So you two start working together and be
Speaker 1: this political animal where you decide that Fitz is not resigning.
Speaker 1: It was you on the sex tape, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: lie and say it was Mellie, and then she's going
Speaker 1: to fake being pregnant. So by the end of this series,
Speaker 1: the two of them have to go off quickly and
Speaker 1: like have sex and have and make a baby. But
Speaker 1: it's the beginning of the Mellie Olivia like when they
Speaker 1: work together, it's like, holy shit, And we learned that
Speaker 1: Olivia's like, oh, hell no, I don't want to settle
Speaker 1: down and be normal. I mean, one of your memorable
Speaker 1: lines is being normal is overrated. In this episode, it's
Speaker 1: the first time you see Olivia and you're like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: she And another memorable line in this episode is when
Speaker 1: Cyrus says, some men aren't meant to be happy, They're
Speaker 1: meant to be great. And I think that sort of
Speaker 1: connected to Olivia as well, because I think she felt
Speaker 1: that way too, you know what I mean, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she says, don't go be the man. I voted for yes,
Speaker 1: but all of us are like, you mean the man
Speaker 1: that you the election for me? Okay, okay, well I voted.
Speaker 1: But the fact that you that you chose not to
Speaker 1: settle down with Fits, that Olivia chose not to go
Speaker 1: that route. I mean, he speaks volumes to who. Olivia
Speaker 1: was right, she knew her life was beyond that, Like
Speaker 1: she didn't want that. She was like, oh wait a minute,
Speaker 1: wait wait, no, no no, no, no, I'm good. I'm good
Speaker 1: being the most powerful woman in DC right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so good, so wild. The show figured out what it
Speaker 1: was while it was happening, Like, it wasn't predestined that
Speaker 1: Mellie would be Melly, you know. So can you talk
Speaker 1: to us quickly about like when you realize that so
Speaker 1: much of this show was going to be relationships between
Speaker 1: you and Jake and Fits, and that Melly was going
Speaker 1: to be like a very big part of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't, it's so hard. I don't remember having a
Speaker 1: lot of perspective about what the show is about while
Speaker 1: we were doing it. It was so la. It was
Speaker 1: a scene moment to moment like we were just on
Speaker 1: this I mean, we were on this rocket ship. I
Speaker 1: remember Josh Melina seeing the second episode during lunch, the
Speaker 1: second or third episode during lunch while we were filming,
Speaker 1: and that like room. We would sometimes get upstairs where
Speaker 1: we had table reads. And he turned to me and
Speaker 1: he was like, you can carry a show. And like
Speaker 1: coming from Josh Maline Out who was like I watched
Speaker 1: all through college on West Wing, was like obsessed, Like
Speaker 1: you're so pitical that show. Yes, it was the show
Speaker 1: I had. Both Colleen and our friend Jody. We used
Speaker 1: to get together and cook recipes from the Moosewood Cookbook
Speaker 1: and watch West Wing every week. Um, but we like
Speaker 1: so when he said that, I was like, I just
Speaker 1: remember being like, oh my god, oh my god, oh
Speaker 1: my god. I hope he's right. And then I remember
Speaker 1: you also because I didn't know I had mostly done movies,
Speaker 1: but I remember sitting in the hair makeup trail and Katie.
Speaker 1: You were like episode three and I was like what
Speaker 1: about it? And you were like the script is really
Speaker 1: good and I was like okay. You're like, well that's
Speaker 1: when you know if you have a show or not.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh really, oh god, try Katie out, yea,
Speaker 1: check you out, Katie. Well it's easy to make two.
Speaker 1: You were like things fall Aparted episode three. Yeah, you're like,
Speaker 1: episode three is when you really have to know whether
Speaker 1: you can make a show. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's exciting because I think this episode is pretty good.
Speaker 1: I just was so green, you guys, I didn't know anything.
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything. You're calling us to do backstories, like,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone does that, but what I mean
Speaker 1: they do in movies. Business of it, the business of it,
Speaker 1: I was so green about, and like the the TV
Speaker 1: of it, I was so green about. So I wasn't
Speaker 1: green as an as an actor, Like as an actor,
Speaker 1: I was so invested and felt like I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, the hog and mud like. So it doing
Speaker 1: everything I wanted to be doing. But I didn't know
Speaker 1: what it meant. I didn't know what the marketing men
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't. I just you know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just moment to moment, I just wanted yeah, and it speaks.
Speaker 1: It's it's like, it's about the work. Right. It sounds
Speaker 1: like sort of corny and cliche, but it's it's about
Speaker 1: the work. If the work is good and everything else
Speaker 1: that we have no control over, right, that that'll either
Speaker 1: fall into blaze or it won't and it and yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And what I what I'm really proud of sitting here
Speaker 1: right now in this moment is also that it was
Speaker 1: about the process and the people. Because I remember so
Speaker 1: much more about your first house that you bought, Katie.
Speaker 1: I remember so much more about game or your conversations
Speaker 1: about going back home in New York and what that
Speaker 1: was like, and like are the reveal of the clothing
Speaker 1: in the sacks windows and your parents waving at us
Speaker 1: through the window. Forget it. I'll never forget that. These
Speaker 1: little details I remember more than any episode of the
Speaker 1: show we ever shot, because I was so invested in
Speaker 1: you as people. I was invested in our like we
Speaker 1: were on this rocket ship and we couldn't control like
Speaker 1: Mars and the comets and the stars, and like we didn't,
Speaker 1: but on ship, we had each other. And I'm really
Speaker 1: proud of how we did that. It really all stems
Speaker 1: from you, Kerry, I'm serious. And the other thing about
Speaker 1: all of this pressure and everything about being the first
Speaker 1: black woman in forty years to be on a show,
Speaker 1: I remember, for one second, like I don't know if
Speaker 1: you ever felt this, or maybe I put this in
Speaker 1: my head that you said this in or I remember
Speaker 1: you being like, this has to succeed, Like what would
Speaker 1: have happened had it not? Yeah, I knew, I knew
Speaker 1: we failed. It would be another forty years. But instead,
Speaker 1: because we didn't fail, we got to have How to
Speaker 1: get Away, and we got to have Brianka Chopra and
Speaker 1: her show. We got to have all these women of
Speaker 1: color leading network shows Station nineteen, Like, we got to
Speaker 1: have this world where women of color were number ones
Speaker 1: on the call sheet and it was no longer a
Speaker 1: big quote unquote risks. Anyway, I love you guys so much.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how fun this first season of
Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolboxes such a freaking blast. It's been such
Speaker 1: a blast. I hope I hope we get to do
Speaker 1: like listen, like every single season. I hope we do
Speaker 1: all seven seasons. And that's to you all listening too. Yeah, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys like it, Tell your friends and we'll give
Speaker 1: you more life. We'll bring you more behind the scenes
Speaker 1: hot goss from Yeah, We're going to bring all the
Speaker 1: guests more superstars. That's right, peace. Hopefully the next episode
Speaker 1: up is two h one White Hats Off, Yeah, premier
Speaker 1: of the second season but come on, you guys, give
Speaker 1: me a fucking break. The first season, we brought to
Speaker 1: you Shan Rhymes, we brought to you Tony Golden, we
Speaker 1: brought to you Lives a Wheel. We brought you Cary Washington.
Speaker 1: So stick with us. Please tell your friends this is
Speaker 1: and also because as per usual, I just want to
Speaker 1: hang out. We just want to Willy Willie Diaz all,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love you so much. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: this is Willie Dias sign off. Goodbye, Gladiatory Gladiators on
Speaker 1: the app piece. Thank you guys for joining us on
Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe,
Speaker 1: share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review.
Speaker 1: Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alcha, Lauren Hohman,
Speaker 1: Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Speaker 1: Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Scandal is
Speaker 1: a production of ABC Signature, and you can follow along
Speaker 1: by rewatching Scandal on Hulu. Unpacking the Toolbox is a
Speaker 1: production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere
Speaker 1: you subscribe to your favorite shows.