1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. In this week's episode on Princess Go Menendez 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: and Fort Mosey, we talked about how in the United States, 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Jamestown and the British roots of the United States tend 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: to get way more attention than Saint Augustine in the 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: nation's Spanish roots, unless maybe you live in Florida, where 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: Saint Augustine is, And we also said both of those 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: get a lot more attention than cities that were established 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: and continually occupied by indigenous peoples, such as a Coma Pueblo. 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: So today's Saturday Classic has connections to Acoma Pueblo and 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: its history, as well as to other pueblos that have 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: also been continually occupied for centuries. It's our January twenty ninth, 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen episode on the Pueblo Revolt. If I were 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: writing this episode today after more than a decade of 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: working on the show instead of in twenty fourteen, when 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: I had been co hosting it for less than a year, 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: I would probably take a totally different approach to the introduction. 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: It is true that the idea of history being written 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: by the victors is something that gets thrown around a lot, 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: but it is not as true in practice as we 20 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: make it sound in this intro. Another good counter example 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: is the Lost Cause mythology surrounding the US Civil War. 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: We did a whole episode on that that ran as 23 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: a Saturday Classic on March eighth, twenty twenty five. So 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: enjoy Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I 26 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: am Tracy V. Wilson. I'm Holly Frank So Holly yeah. 27 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: How often have you heard somebody say history is written 28 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: by the victors? I can't even cat how many times 29 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: I've said it. I know we've said it a lot 30 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: on this podcast. Today we're going to talk about a 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: pretty giant exception to that conventional wisdom, which is the 32 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: Pueblo Revolt of sixteen eighty. And in this revolt, Native 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: American peoples, who are collectively known as the Pueblos, rose 34 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: up in unison against Spanish colonists and missionaries who had 35 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: started settling the area at the turn of the seventeenth century. 36 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: These settlers were Catholic and had begun systematically converting the 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: native population, and had also forbidden the practice of the 38 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: Pueblo's traditional religions. So on August tenth, sixteen eighty, the 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: pueblos in multiple villages rose up simultaneously against the settlers. 40 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: They threw off the colonial government and lived outside of 41 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: Spanish rule for the next twelve years. This was probably 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: the most successful indigenous uprisings in North American history, but 43 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: because the Pueblos were not keeping written records of their 44 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: history at the time, it was a largely oral tradition. 45 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: Most of the history on this one was actually written 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: by the losing sid Where we do have written records 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: of the Native American point of view, it's in the 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: form of testimony that was given orally by Pueblo peoples 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: and written down by Spanish priests. So it's clearly not 50 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: an unbiased account. Where we do have the Native American 51 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: perspective on things, says we're going to talk about today, 52 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: this huge revolt of which we have very little record 53 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: of the victor side. Yeah. So for background, before the 54 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: arrival of European settlers, the part of the world that's 55 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: now northern Mexico and the southwestern United States was home 56 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: to several tribes of Native peoples who fit very broadly 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: into two groups, and one group was the more mobile 58 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: hunter gatherer peoples, and that included the Navajo and the Apache, 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: and the other group included the Native Americans who were 60 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: living in established permanent settlements that Spanish colonists dubbed pueblos. 61 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: So pueblos are communal living situations with terraces and flat roofs. 62 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: They are built around a central court and above an 63 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: underground ceremonial chamber called a kiva. Once the Spanish coined 64 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: the term pueblos, the various peoples who lived in them 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: came to be collectively known as the Pueblo Indians, and 66 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: the Pueblo peoples are most likely descended from the Anasazi, 67 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: and they include the Hopi and the Zuni, among others. 68 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: Pueblos do still exist today, and one of them, the 69 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: Acoma Pueblo, is believed to be the oldest continually inhabited 70 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: place in the United States. People have lived in it 71 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: since about the year twelve hundred. So although the Pueblo 72 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: peoples lived in similar looking structures, this wasn't and isn't 73 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: one homogeneous group of people. The Pueblos spoke seven different 74 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: languages in the sixteen hundreds, although some may have spoken 75 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: Spanish as well. Each individual Pueblo governed itself and had 76 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: its own customs and its own cultural nuances. Spain made 77 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: its way to this part of the world with the 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: intent to conquer land and convert the people living there 79 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: to Christianity, and last, but not least, on their agenda 80 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: was finding a bunch of treasure, and some of that 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: would fold back in to fund their first and second agendas, right, 82 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: And in a lot of views, the primary agenda was 83 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: really treasure, but the treasure there was in some some 84 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: components of it like that the treasure had an end 85 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: besides just treasure in itself, right, and that was conquering 86 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: and converting. Spanish settlers made contact with the Pueblo peoples 87 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: in the early fifteen hundreds, when Marcos Deniza, who was 88 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: a Franciscan friar, claimed the whole region for Spain. The 89 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: infamous Conquistadoor Coronado also made his way through in fifteen forty, 90 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: and Conquistador Juan de Onate made a voyage there with 91 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: four hundred settlers in fifteen ninety eight. At that point 92 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: he established New Mexico as a Spanish colony, and that's 93 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: really when Spanish colonization of the area started. In earnest 94 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: and the whole vast hordes of treasure idea didn't pan 95 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: out for New Mexico and Spain wanted to abandon the area. 96 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: The Franciscans made a case for their mission work being 97 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: far too advance to just come to an end abruptly, 98 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: so they continued on with the aim of converting the 99 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: indigenous population and ministering to the ones that they had 100 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: already been successful in converting. In addition to trying to 101 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: convert the indigenous population to Catholicism, the Spanish authorities also 102 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: forbade traditional religious practices, so when they arrived in a 103 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: Pueblo village, the Spanish would start by destroying the kiva, 104 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: which was used for religious and cultural ceremonies and also 105 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: was kind of like a gathering place. Sometimes they would 106 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: build the church directly over the kiva site. The Spanish 107 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: also destroyed masks and other items that were associated with kachinas, 108 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: and these were spirit beings worshiped in traditional Pueblo religions. 109 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: The Native Americans who resisted the Spanish were often subject 110 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: to imprisonment and torture, and in a recurring theme regarding 111 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: the coluonnization of the Americas. The settlers introduced measles, smallpox, 112 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: and typhus. Up to eighty percent of the Pueblo population 113 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: actually died in the years after first contact due to disease. Yeah, 114 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: this was not wholly a one sided thing. There were 115 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: also diseases brought back to Europe from the colonies. Yeah, 116 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: but not nearly with the lethal ramifications as happened in 117 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: the America eighty percent a lot huge. Yeah. The Spanish 118 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: also implemented taxation in their colonies, and the rates of 119 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: taxation were so high that over about a decade, the 120 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: Spanish went from asking the Pueblos for food to help 121 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: them get started with their colony, to instead the Pueblos 122 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: asking the Spanish for food that had been taxed away 123 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: from them. And to add to all of this, a 124 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: drought started in sixteen sixty six that lasted for four 125 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: years before the arrival of the Spanish. The Pueblo people 126 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: survived drought by keeping stockpiles of food and trading with 127 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: one another. It was very cooperative, but the Spanish had 128 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: taxed them so heavily that no one had a stockpile, 129 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: and trade among the pueblos was prohibited. Raids by the 130 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: apaches on the remaining meager stores made things even harder, 131 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: so basically all of their resources were stripped from them, right, 132 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: And then there was an epidemic of an unknown and 133 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: deeply deadly disease in sixteen seventy one. And all of this, 134 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: of course had a measurable effect on the Pueblo population. 135 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: Over the seventy five years between the real start of 136 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: Spanish settlement and the revolt, the number of Pueblos dropped 137 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: from about one hundred to about forty existing today are 138 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: about twenty. In the minds of many Pueblo peoples at 139 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: the time, life was getting harder and harder, specifically because 140 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: they were not being allowed to perform their religious s observances. 141 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: Like a Western idea of this might be that God 142 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: was exacting vengeance because he was not being worshiped enough, right, 143 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: But this was more a worldview that those observances were 144 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: crucial to maintaining their quality of life and the way 145 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: that the world was supposed to work, and without those 146 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: observances going on, that things were going off the rails. Well, yeah, 147 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: their entire culture had been upended and most of their 148 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: traditions stripped away, right, So yes, that will pretty much 149 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: ruin your life. Your structure has been completely taken away. 150 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: Spanish authorities cracked down harder on descent after the a 151 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Coma revol in fifteen ninety nine, and in this revolt, 152 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: the Acoma Pueblo attacked a party of Spanish people who 153 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: asked them for supplies. So Spanish authorities had cracked down 154 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: harder on descent after an event that actually took place 155 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: sometime before in fifteen ninety nine, and that was the 156 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: a Coma Revolt. And in this revolt, the Acoma Pueblo 157 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: attacked a party of Spanish people who had asked them 158 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: for supplies. The Spanish then burned down the town and 159 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: massacred every male living there who was over the age 160 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: of twenty five. And in the aftermath of this revolt, floggings, 161 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: public executions, and sentences of slavery became more common. So 162 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: after that whole thing had happened, the Spanish basically their 163 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 1: approach to anything was going to be swift and cruel 164 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: and pretty conclsive. Yeah. Yeah, so over the development of 165 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: the diseases and taxation that we've just talked about, other 166 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: revolts were also going on. But because the pueblos were 167 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: so spread out, most of them were really too small 168 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: to be effective, and in some cases Native Americans who 169 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: were loyal to the Spanish had tipped them off to 170 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: what was happening. So there was resistance going on through 171 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: this whole time, but it wasn't really strong enough to 172 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: gain a foothold. There's a little piecemeal, yeah. In sixteen 173 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: seventy five, Spanish authorities rounded up forty seven pueblo religious 174 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: leaders and convicted them of sorcery and conspiring to rebel. 175 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: These leaders were beaten publicly and they were sentenced to slavery. 176 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: Four were sentenced to execution, though one of them committed 177 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: suicide rather than be executed. One of the imprisoned holy 178 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: leaders was a man named POPEI, and he was from 179 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: San Juan Pueblo. Pope and the other leaders were released 180 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: that same year. Pope went to the northernmost pueblo, Taois Pueblo. 181 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: There he reported being visited by three spirits who gave 182 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: him a prophecy abundance would return to the pueblos if 183 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: they purged their world of Spaniards. So the Spanish described 184 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: this event as having had a conversation with the devil, 185 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: and most of the Spanish writing about the revolt from 186 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: the time characterizes it as the work of the devil, 187 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: not as a result of Spanish oppression or of the 188 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: pueblo's grievances against the Spanish colonists. So, over a period 189 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: of years, Pope started to organize the Pueblo people who 190 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: were living in villages that spanned up and down the 191 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: Rio Grande valley, and they sprawled out over more than 192 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: three hundred miles of territory from east to west. So 193 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: to address the language barrier that we referenced earlier, which 194 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: was one of the things that had prevented all these 195 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: different pueblos from uniting in the past, Pope gave each 196 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: of the villages a knotted cord, which he delivered to 197 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: them using runners, and the villages were supposed to unknot 198 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: one knot from the cord every day, and on the 199 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: day the last knot was untied, that would be the 200 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: day that everyone was to rise up against the Spanish. 201 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: And also given to the runners were pieces of deer 202 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: skin that were marked with pictograms. Pope rehearsed their meaning 203 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: with the runners before they left. So the plan was 204 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: to simultaneously attack the Spanish in all these different villages, 205 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: using weapons that people had stockpiled and hidden, and then 206 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: to destroy the churches and kill the priests, and then 207 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: to kill the Spanish or drive them out of their towns. 208 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: From there, the pueblos planned to converge to turn their 209 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: attention to the Spanish capital at Santa Fe. Two of 210 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: the runners that Pope sent out were captured, giving the 211 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: Spanish advance warning of what was going to happen. Additional 212 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: runners were dispatched to tell all the pueblos to move 213 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: the revolution. Earlier news didn't make it to all the 214 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: outlying pueblos in time, and a few pueblos appeared to 215 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: have declined to participate in the plant. Yes, there are 216 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: some descriptions of this that make it sound as though 217 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: this was a completely unanimous action on the part of 218 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: the pueblos, and for a lot of reasons it wasn't. 219 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: Some of them seemed not to have gotten the news 220 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: from the runners in time. Others seemed to have consciously 221 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: made the decision for whatever reason, either because they were 222 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: sympathetic to the Spanish or were allied with the Spanish, 223 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: decided not to attack the people who were living there 224 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: at that point. So, regardless of all of that, on 225 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: August tenth, sixteen eighty, many of the pueblos, along with 226 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: allies from the Apache and the Navajo, attacked in more 227 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: than twenty villages. Together, they killed four hundred and one 228 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: Spanish soldiers and civilians, including twenty one Franciscan priests, and 229 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: that was about two thirds of the ecclesiastical force living 230 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: in New Mexico at the time. We have absolutely no 231 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: casualty count on the Native American side. We have no 232 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: idea how many pueblos died during the fighting. At least 233 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: one priest, who was father Juan gray Robe and Zuni Pueblo, 234 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: reportedly survived by putting aside Catholicism and taking up Pueblo practices, 235 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: and he eventually married a Zuni wife. There's a lot 236 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: that's actually unclear about this story, though, since it's pieced 237 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: together from multiple testimonies that were given orally by Native 238 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: Americans and then written down by Spanish priests, So the 239 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: veracity of any element of it is a little bit questionable. Yeah, 240 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: we've sort of established that this is probably what happened. 241 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: Later in a part that we will get to in 242 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: a bit, the Spanish did return and apparently found this, 243 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: particularly this particular pueblo, still practicing a lot of elements 244 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: of Catholic religion, led by Father Juan grey Robe, who 245 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: had kind of assimilated into the pueblo culture. Fascinating. That 246 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: could be a podcast in and of itself. I would imagine 247 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: if we had better records, if we had enough records 248 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: to do that, which we really don't. Once the fighting 249 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: was done in the villages, about twenty five hundred warriors 250 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: attacked the colonial headquarters at Santa Fe, and survivors in 251 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: Santa Fe and from the surrounding villages all fled to 252 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: the Governor's palace and there they were laid siege. Two 253 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: Eventually the pueblos cut off the water supply. Another group 254 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: of refugees fled to the Isleta Pueblo, which was seventy 255 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: miles to the south and apparently had not taken part 256 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: in the fighting. The Lieutenant governor was there with a 257 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: group of survivors, and eventually, on August twenty first, the 258 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: governor decided to abandon New Mexico. He and the survivors 259 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: who had taken refuge in Santa Fe managed to flee 260 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: down the Rio grand and exactly whether this is because 261 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: they were allowed to go or were just strong enough 262 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: presence not to be messed with is still a matter 263 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: of some debate. The Lieutenant governor decided to abandon New 264 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: Mexico as well. Yeah, we pretty much know that they 265 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: all left and the Native Americans allowed them to leave, 266 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: but we have no record of the rationale for why 267 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: everyone was allowed to leave at this point. Yeah, if 268 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: they cut a deal, or if they just were strong 269 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: enough that they were like, we're just gonna let this happen. Yeah, 270 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: along with some of the Pueblo peoples who were loyal 271 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: to Spain, everyone went to El Paso del Norte which 272 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: today is Juarez, Mexico, and for twelve years the pueblos 273 00:16:54,000 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: were actually free from colonial rule. So after the revolt, 274 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: Pope toured the pueblos and instructed people to really throw 275 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: off all Spanish influence. Many people underwent a ritual bathing 276 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: that was meant to wash away their baptism. Christian marriages 277 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: were also voided until a traditional pueblo ceremony could be performed, 278 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: and the pueblos burned down villages that the Spanish had built, 279 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: including Spanish built pueblos that the native peoples had been 280 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: living in. They basically wanted to eradicate anything the Spanish 281 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: had touched. Yeah, they burned down mission churches and smashed 282 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: the bells, they whipped statues, gouged out the eyes of 283 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: religious paintings. But this really didn't happen in every single pueblo. 284 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: This is another thing that a lot of times in 285 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: modern accounts you will see this as a universal thing 286 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: that happened in every single pueblo to the same extent, 287 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: But there's really a lot of variety in exactly how 288 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: much each pueblo village did or did not reject Catholic 289 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: influence at this point, and some of their tribe. Some 290 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: of the tribes actually moved their pueblos to more defensible 291 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: vantage points to better defend themselves in case the Spanish returned. 292 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: Many of the new pueblos that were built after the 293 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: revolt were built immediately adjacent to other villages that dated 294 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: back to the twelfth or thirteenth century, So it sort 295 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: of seems as though that in addition to going back 296 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: to their traditional ways, they were also going back to 297 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: the places where their ancestors had lived. But Spanish influence 298 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: was not entirely destroyed. Some Spanish introductions to Pueblo culture, 299 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: including raising cattle and sheep, had become part of the 300 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: way of life there, and POPEI decreed that people should 301 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: go back to planting corn exclusively, but some continued to 302 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: plant wheat and barley, which had also been introduced by 303 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: the Spanish. There were also Pueblo people at this point 304 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: who identified as Christians and who didn't want to give 305 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: up their religion. These people would salvage and hide what 306 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: they could, or incorporate Christian themes into their traditional spiritual practice, 307 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: so you can see some kind of merging of the 308 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: two influences in the archaeological record. In some places, the 309 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: Spanish started to attempt to retake the Pueblo area in 310 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: sixteen eighty one. There were skirmishes and sieges that went 311 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: on for years. POPEI died in sixteen eighty eight, and 312 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: there really wasn't another charismatic leader to take his place 313 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: and try to unite all the people of the different pueblos, 314 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: And even before his death his leadership had really weakened. 315 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 1: He wound up dying in disgrace. There's some suggestion in 316 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: the testimonies that was taken orally from the Pueblo peoples, 317 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: that there were pueblos that went along with POPEI because 318 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: they were scared of him and not because they actually 319 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: wanted to rebel. It's kind of hard to figure out 320 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: whether that is really what people thought, or whether that 321 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: is sort of an addition of the Spanish translators. But 322 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: the fact that he did die in pretty much not 323 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: a state of respect or reverence makes it seem like 324 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: maybe there was there's some merit to that angry. Yeah, 325 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: some merit to that part of it. Also, the sort 326 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: of back to the old ways that he was advocating 327 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: did seem like in sometimes that it was sort of 328 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: back to the old ways as envisioned by POPEI. Some 329 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: of the pueblos that were rebuilt after the revolt have 330 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: more in common with Pope's particular people than with the 331 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: pueblos that they were replacing. And weakened by years of 332 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: fighting and a loss of a central leader to coordinate 333 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: their efforts, the Pueblo peoples once again fell to the Spanish, 334 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: and that was in sixteen ninety two. At this point, 335 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: though the evangelical policy of the Catholic Church did become 336 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: somewhat less oppressive in terms of religious expression, so there 337 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: were still missions and churches being built. Missionaries still tried 338 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: to convert people, but they didn't really stand in the 339 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: way of the Pueblo people's free religious expression at that point. 340 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: So while there was still bill a whole colonial system 341 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: going on, that the Pueblo peoples did have more of 342 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: an ability to carry on their historical traditions and their 343 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: spiritual traditions. But unfortunately that did not stop things from 344 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: being bloody in the reconquest process. So while there were 345 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: some peaceful surrenders in other places, the Spanish actually went 346 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: house to house and burned people in their homes. That's 347 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: pretty bloody all around. Uh huh. Historical archaeologist Matthew J. 348 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: Leebman frames this whole revolt as a revolution and not 349 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: a revolt, and he draws some parallels between it and 350 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: the American Revolution. Basically, in both cases, there were farming 351 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: people who were unhappy with the leadership, who organized at 352 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: night to rise up and get rid of an oppressive 353 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: colonial government that they were unhappy living under. And today 354 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: there are about seventy five thousand people of Pueblo descent 355 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: still living. Yes, we're not talking about people who existed 356 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: only in the past. As we said earlier, one of 357 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: the pueblos is one of the most or one of 358 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: the oldest continually inhabited places in the United States. Yeah, 359 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: so the culture endures to some degree. It does and 360 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: in endoors, and a lot of the pueblos that still 361 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: exist are still inhabited in a way that's similar to 362 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: how they were inhabited at this point in history. A 363 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: lot of them are places that people can visit if 364 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: they are interested in learning about. There are a lot 365 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: of resources online to kind of get a sense of 366 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: what the etiquette is of going, like what people can, 367 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: what visitors can and cannot witness, and can and cannot 368 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: do and participate in. We can add that to our 369 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: list of History Podcast road trips. Yes, the Pueblo trip. 370 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: That would be very cool. There's a statue of Pope 371 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: in the Statuary Hall in the United States Capital. It's 372 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: one of the seven Native Americans who were represented in 373 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: the Statuary Hall. And as we've talked about, there are 374 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: nuances to this story, so you know, for that reason, 375 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: it was a pretty controversial addition to the statuary Hall. 376 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: It was carved by Cliff Fragua of Haimez Pueblo, and 377 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: it depicts him he's, uh, he's holding the knotted cord 378 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: that was used to help time everything correctly, which is 379 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: really a pretty ingenious timing device. Yeah, bol but defective. 380 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: I also watched a video that pointed out that it's 381 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: kind of weird where it's positioned because where where the 382 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: statue of pope is you can see over his shoulder 383 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: this this big mural of Columbus quote discovering Aca. But 384 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: because of the way the statue happens to be positioned, 385 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: he's his face is kind of turned away from that. Interesting. Yeah, 386 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that was a deliberate I think it 387 00:23:50,640 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: just worked out that way. Fascinating, but yeah, thanks, thanks 388 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd 389 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: like to send us a note, our email addresses History 390 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to 391 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 392 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.