Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is the All
Speaker 1: Ball podcast, All Basketball, all the time. Look, I could
Speaker 1: I could get lost in some needless conversation about the
Speaker 1: Lakers or about college basketball. We got plenty of time
Speaker 1: to get to that. I told you that one of
Speaker 1: the things I wanted to do with this podcast. And
Speaker 1: by the way, if it's your first time listening, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for making as part of your podcast rotation.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to download, subscribe, and rate this podcast. By
Speaker 1: the way, I guess if you're listening to it, you've
Speaker 1: already downloaded it, so subscribe and rate. During the season,
Speaker 1: we'll have all the people that you want. I got
Speaker 1: great commitments to having some other interesting people throughout this
Speaker 1: off season, which is very short, very condensed, because there
Speaker 1: seems to be no real off season outside of August
Speaker 1: in basketball. But I'm committed to bringing people stories in basketball.
Speaker 1: If you're listen to this, you probably love hoop, right,
Speaker 1: you just love it. I would hope you have a
Speaker 1: ball in the back of your car and some shoes,
Speaker 1: actually two pairs of shoes. If you're a baller, you
Speaker 1: got a basketball in your car. Actually check that, two basketballs.
Speaker 1: In your car, need indoorball in your outdoorball and you
Speaker 1: need indoor shoes, need outdoor shoes. You probably need some socks,
Speaker 1: although let's be honest, a baller can play with no socks,
Speaker 1: or a baller can play with some dress socks. It
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. The shoes are far more important than
Speaker 1: the actual socks, regardless of which. You're a ball guy.
Speaker 1: That's why you're listening to this. So with that in mind,
Speaker 1: I brought you Chris Beard a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Got some great commitments upcoming, and I really wanted to
Speaker 1: share with you Mike roll story because look, it's real basketball.
Speaker 1: He is a professional basketball player. I'm not gonna ask
Speaker 1: him how much money he makes, but it's well into
Speaker 1: six figures. Heck, might even be close into seven at
Speaker 1: some point. The point is he makes a healthy living
Speaker 1: as a tremendous basketball player, having played at U C.
Speaker 1: L A for five years, a part of three Final
Speaker 1: four teams playing for Ben hallen Uh suffered an injury,
Speaker 1: missed the season, got a medical red shirt, came back,
Speaker 1: and his last year was a year in which the
Speaker 1: bottom fell out, but he had a tremendous season. Has
Speaker 1: part laid that into a spectacular foreign career. Does he
Speaker 1: want to come back to the States. We'll get We'll
Speaker 1: get with that. Uh. Does he think he should have
Speaker 1: been drafted in the NBA. We'll have him take us
Speaker 1: through the pre draft process of the workouts he had,
Speaker 1: the things he does to work out now, the things
Speaker 1: he does to his body in terms of eating and
Speaker 1: working out, and what he would have done if he
Speaker 1: went back to high school. But I do I do
Speaker 1: want to start with this one story out of the NBA,
Speaker 1: and then I'll get to one thing at a college
Speaker 1: basketball then we'll get to mic role. Channing Fry, of course,
Speaker 1: was on a different podcast and he said, hey, look,
Speaker 1: it's hard to play with Lebron because Lebron likes vets
Speaker 1: to where he can walk in and go, you're a shooter,
Speaker 1: you're a pastor, you're a driver, you're a rebounder. These
Speaker 1: are your rules. So it's gonna be interesting to see
Speaker 1: what the Lakers because that's how Lebron's always played. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I do think that the Lakers, if
Speaker 1: they're smart, gonna challenge Lebron for Hey, Lebron two point
Speaker 1: o or three point o or four point oh. It's
Speaker 1: probably more four point oh than anything. Should be a
Speaker 1: guy who can who can take a breath at times
Speaker 1: during the game and let other people play, can be
Speaker 1: more of a facilitator, which is a skill that doesn't
Speaker 1: go away. Like the skill of going by everybody and
Speaker 1: taking on a team like that, you lose that that
Speaker 1: that first step ability. Now. I do think they'll playim
Speaker 1: at some small ball five. He has the size to
Speaker 1: do it. He's a sneaky shot blocker, he's a good
Speaker 1: enough rebounder, and it'll find him the mismatch. But more
Speaker 1: than anything, I don't think anything Shanning Fry said wasn't accurate.
Speaker 1: It's not always easy to play with a superstar. It's
Speaker 1: not always easy to work with a superstar. And the
Speaker 1: idea this is not a bad thing when he's paying
Speaker 1: the picture of Hey, he likes guys and roles. I
Speaker 1: work with Colin Cowherd Colin Coward as a way in
Speaker 1: which he preps every day, and if you fill in
Speaker 1: for him as I do on his show on Fox
Speaker 1: Sports Trade or do my own chow from twelve to
Speaker 1: three Pacific time three to six Eastern time, there's a
Speaker 1: way in which I do things that somebody who fills
Speaker 1: in for me has to do. Lebron James wanting to
Speaker 1: know shooters, passers, drivers and let them know all their roles.
Speaker 1: That's no different than a rock group. And you know
Speaker 1: one guy likes all green eminem's in his dressing room, right.
Speaker 1: He wants his his his ear is volume level in
Speaker 1: his ears to be just so. He wants to play
Speaker 1: golf every morning. Like that's that's what musicians do. That
Speaker 1: what actors do. That's part of their process in preparing them.
Speaker 1: And even though I am not a Lebron is the
Speaker 1: greatest player ever guy. I'm absolutely willing to put him
Speaker 1: in the top five greatest players I've ever seen play
Speaker 1: basketball conversation. But I don't view it as a negative.
Speaker 1: I view it as really interesting. The other point that
Speaker 1: Channing Fry made, which was something I've said on radio,
Speaker 1: it's completely different when you're playing with Lebron in terms
Speaker 1: of how much people prepped for you. Right, Look, Lebron
Speaker 1: come into town. Go and look at all of these
Speaker 1: different teams and their websites or their Twitter Twitter handles.
Speaker 1: When the schedule came out, the Dallas Mavericks, check out
Speaker 1: the Dallas Mavericks schedules and the two games we play
Speaker 1: at home against Lebron and the Lakers, you're everybody's biggest game.
Speaker 1: There are lots games in the NBA where guys are
Speaker 1: second night of a back to back and they went
Speaker 1: out when they landed in town and they're not taking
Speaker 1: it as seriously. That's not the case when the Lakers
Speaker 1: come to town. So the challenge to these Lakers will
Speaker 1: be can they play the same system they've played against
Speaker 1: a higher level of competition with a heightened amount of
Speaker 1: detail and do it while working in Lebron James, who's
Speaker 1: played in his own system for the entirety of his career.
Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. In college basketball, what I'm fascinated
Speaker 1: by is the Duke Blue Devils. I know Kentucky played
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas, and I've watched those tapes as well,
Speaker 1: but everyone is I don't know everyone. A lot of
Speaker 1: people are freaking out over Zion Williamson making some jump
Speaker 1: shots and frankly looking great and there foreign tour against Canada.
Speaker 1: First thing is um R J. Barrett obviously is the
Speaker 1: better talent, and as good as Zion was, he was
Speaker 1: even better. The second thing is let's also catch our
Speaker 1: breath and realize that they're playing against massively inferior competition.
Speaker 1: They just weren't. They weren't The Canadian teams they're playing
Speaker 1: against weren't. They weren't really even Division one teams. So
Speaker 1: it's great for Duke and for Kentucky to promote their
Speaker 1: players to get some run, to get some cohesion so
Speaker 1: that when they hit the ground running early in November
Speaker 1: and playing He's made for TV games, They've already played together.
Speaker 1: They don't have to, and they're they're the verbiage that
Speaker 1: they have to learn and some of the defensive slides
Speaker 1: and adjustments they have to make. The questions for Zion
Speaker 1: Williamson being at six ft five pounds, I just I
Speaker 1: don't see playing at that weight is a good idea.
Speaker 1: Like if I'm advising Zion, I'm telling him, a dude, look,
Speaker 1: you look great there, and you have an incredible burst.
Speaker 1: You can chase dudes down and block shots. But we
Speaker 1: gotta try and get you in the two sixties. I
Speaker 1: gotta try and get you in the two six. You've
Speaker 1: got a couple of months to do. So it's gonna
Speaker 1: be about diet. It's gonna be how we change your body,
Speaker 1: how we train you. Because Zion Williamson's ability to make
Speaker 1: it in the NBA and stick in the NBA. Yes,
Speaker 1: has to make jump shots, but it's can he play
Speaker 1: eighty two games? And can he guard laterally five five positions?
Speaker 1: You know physically with long arms and a thick body,
Speaker 1: there's not a ton of posts. He won't be big
Speaker 1: boy that much. But can he guard these guys out
Speaker 1: in the perimeter? One he hasn't always played hard defensively,
Speaker 1: and two he's gonna have to change his body as
Speaker 1: much as he's an absolute tank and a physical FREAQ.
Speaker 1: When he plants his his his jump foot and he
Speaker 1: flies all around, I think he's got lightened up. And
Speaker 1: when you're sometimes we we we gotta watch the game backwards.
Speaker 1: Can he defend point guards on switches? Can he guard
Speaker 1: on the perimeter? Is he tough enough underneath the basket
Speaker 1: playing against bigger players to box out to rebound? Because
Speaker 1: the reason Traymond Green is not a great athlete. Remember,
Speaker 1: Drink can't jump up and do anything that the Zion
Speaker 1: can do. And frankly, Zion right now is going to
Speaker 1: progress towards being a better shooter um in. Draymond Green
Speaker 1: granted very early, and he's gotta put in massive represence
Speaker 1: against inferior competition. But Draymond played without a jump shot
Speaker 1: last year. Draymond Green is Raymond Green because his ability
Speaker 1: to pass, He's ability to play five positions on offense,
Speaker 1: but more than anything, because he can guard defensively. That's
Speaker 1: the challenge design Williams. All right, let's get to the
Speaker 1: to our special guest in the All Ball Podcast names
Speaker 1: Mike Role played at U C l A. Well, I
Speaker 1: was great catching up with Mike. Uh. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: quickly my story of landing in Russia. So I was sometime.
Speaker 1: I'll go through the whole process and tell this story again,
Speaker 1: but here's what I remember. I was in Salina, Kansas,
Speaker 1: playing with the Salanta Rattlers, and it was a short
Speaker 1: term deal because I knew I was going to get
Speaker 1: a call to play overseas. And an agent at the
Speaker 1: time called me and said, hey, do you want to
Speaker 1: go to Russia? And I was like sure. So we
Speaker 1: packed up our stuff from Salina. I dropped my wife
Speaker 1: off in Oklahoma City at our apartment in Ocala. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: I think at our parents house and she was going
Speaker 1: to join me in a couple of weeks. And you know,
Speaker 1: we had apartment in Oklahoma City, and so we dropped
Speaker 1: off in an apartment in Oklahoma City, like a four
Speaker 1: hour drive or so. I fly from Oklahoma City to
Speaker 1: New York City. New York City, have to go to
Speaker 1: the Russian consulate and then overnight I fly on air
Speaker 1: float too Russia. I land in Moscow and when you
Speaker 1: land in Moscow, you don't speak in English. And at
Speaker 1: the time, this is two thousand and one January two
Speaker 1: thousand one, snowing outside, everybody's smoking. Everywhere you land, you
Speaker 1: go through, you get your bags, you got all your
Speaker 1: lifely possessions, and all there was was a sign in
Speaker 1: Russian with a basketball. This guy could have been at
Speaker 1: axe murder. Right. You've ever been on that road from
Speaker 1: from the Cancun airport to Plia del Carmen and it's
Speaker 1: like a two lane road each way, and there's nothing
Speaker 1: along the road, and you're like, if somebody murdered me
Speaker 1: right here, no one would ever know for months. That's
Speaker 1: the feeling. When I got into the car in Russia,
Speaker 1: I was super groggy because I traveled again to New
Speaker 1: York City and then overnight and I yet to master
Speaker 1: flying on red eyes and whatever, and smoke really bothered me.
Speaker 1: We stopped to eat at a Russian restaurant. I didn't
Speaker 1: speak English. The guy ordered for me to smoke everywhere.
Speaker 1: We drank tea afterwards, and I passed out in the car.
Speaker 1: And here's my my most distinct memory, in addition to
Speaker 1: the fact that the guy just had a sign and
Speaker 1: didn't speak in English, who was driving me from one
Speaker 1: Moscow airport to another? If you've been to Russia and
Speaker 1: you didn't fly just in the Moscow to stay, you
Speaker 1: knew you had to go to a different airport. I
Speaker 1: was so tired. It was like a spy movie where
Speaker 1: somebody I was like b a baracus in the A
Speaker 1: team right where they gave me a shot, and I
Speaker 1: was like in and out of consciousness. I remember waking
Speaker 1: up and seeing like we're pulling in, We're pulling by
Speaker 1: Red Square, We're like a mile out. And then I
Speaker 1: woke up again and we're right next to Red Square.
Speaker 1: And then I woke up again and Red Square was gone.
Speaker 1: But I remember seeing Red Square in the towers and
Speaker 1: all the look and I'm like I could not believe
Speaker 1: growing up in the eighties watching Red Dawn, Wolverades or
Speaker 1: Rocky four. Boys can change, and youth can change. We
Speaker 1: all can change that. I was in made Russia, but
Speaker 1: I was, and then I passed out and I woke
Speaker 1: up and I'm at another airport. And there weren't sheep
Speaker 1: and goats and chickens and pigs that got on my
Speaker 1: flight to parm Russia, but it sure felt that way.
Speaker 1: And I remember the seats on that air flow plane.
Speaker 1: If you nobody was sitting in there, you could push
Speaker 1: it forward. They would almost fold down, like it was
Speaker 1: like being on a on a weird bus. Only we
Speaker 1: were flying and people are smoking and drinking vodka and koonak.
Speaker 1: You drink koonak to uh to take a shot to
Speaker 1: for a famous war for stalling goodad they got done
Speaker 1: and gooead and they drink excessively. We land in perm Russia,
Speaker 1: and I remember getting off and it was one of
Speaker 1: those they they bring the stairs right to the plane
Speaker 1: and he walked down the stairs and you realize that
Speaker 1: you landed on like a foot thick piece of ice
Speaker 1: because it's that cold. What's the point of what's the
Speaker 1: point of going back and getting the ice when it's
Speaker 1: that cold every day at a park on and some
Speaker 1: gloves on and a beanie on and a scarf on,
Speaker 1: and all you can see is my face and my breath.
Speaker 1: And I had like an Oklahoma State park on the bags.
Speaker 1: Come in outside and again this time I walk outside
Speaker 1: and there's a lady who does speak some broken English.
Speaker 1: They put me in a van that has the basketball
Speaker 1: logo on the van, and they take me to my apartment,
Speaker 1: which is on the ninth floor. And I remember like
Speaker 1: walking up the stairs or going up the elevator, getting
Speaker 1: to the ninth floor, opening opening the door and looking
Speaker 1: around and thinking to myself, this is either the start
Speaker 1: or the end of my basketball career that's playing overseas.
Speaker 1: That's what's really like. No food in the apartment. Had
Speaker 1: to go and pick out stuff. Learned that the word
Speaker 1: this is at the so i'd walk around the we're
Speaker 1: go at the at the at the at the which
Speaker 1: is pleased by jallatt by jasta. And I didn't know
Speaker 1: that Russians don't really say please and thank you that much,
Speaker 1: so they could pick me out that, in addition to
Speaker 1: the fact that I couldn't speak Russian. I was saying please,
Speaker 1: then thank you a lot. Anyway, there's my Russian story
Speaker 1: for the day. Guy picking me up, doesn't speak English,
Speaker 1: holding a sign driving me across Moscow, stopping for dinner,
Speaker 1: to which he made the mind do you want to eat?
Speaker 1: And I said yes. I still don't know what I ate.
Speaker 1: It was quite gross. I drank tea. I fell asleep.
Speaker 1: I woke up. I was another airport. More smoke, more drinking, land,
Speaker 1: sheet of ice, baggage van, close the door to van,
Speaker 1: ninth floor. I'm in my apartment. I passed out, woke
Speaker 1: up the next day and play ball. All right, let's
Speaker 1: welcome in my girl, who, of course start at U
Speaker 1: C l A and now is a star with one
Speaker 1: of the elite teams in all of professional basketball. He
Speaker 1: plays from Akabi Tel Aviv. Kind of have to spend
Speaker 1: some time with this year. In the All Ball podcast, Mike,
Speaker 1: how are you? How are you? I'm good? Um, so
Speaker 1: look at the time of this recording, I believe you
Speaker 1: leave for Israel tomorrow, right, yeah, alright, the thirty hours
Speaker 1: uh between now and the NonStop flight to Tel Aviv.
Speaker 1: I wanted if if you don't mind, I wanted to
Speaker 1: go down kind of memory road, and because I think
Speaker 1: your path is amazing. It really is. From high school
Speaker 1: when you're supposed to go to ucs B, to go
Speaker 1: into u c l A, play on some final four teams,
Speaker 1: and then you know, kind of fighting your way up
Speaker 1: the ladder in professional basketball to play for you know,
Speaker 1: Beshi toash Now Maccabi Tel Aviv, you know, being a
Speaker 1: Turkish League All Star before you come over to Israel.
Speaker 1: Like that. That's the climb that I don't think a
Speaker 1: lot of people in the state's get a chance to
Speaker 1: hear from um. Let's let's start. Let's start with with
Speaker 1: high school and recruiting. You're highly touted out of mission
Speaker 1: via HO and you're supposed to go to UCSB. Why
Speaker 1: the chain in going to u c l A. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the recruitment from uh L A was a late thing.
Speaker 1: I went through the whole recruiting process, you know, I
Speaker 1: fell in love with a couple of schools, ultimately chose
Speaker 1: Santa Barbara. I wanted to stay a little bit close
Speaker 1: to home, and then I had verbally committed and I
Speaker 1: was really excited about that. And then shortly into the
Speaker 1: beginning of my senior year. I believe it was UM
Speaker 1: coach Allen called me. Uh he offered me a scholarship
Speaker 1: right there on the phone, and I was just something
Speaker 1: too good for me to pass it up, and luckily
Speaker 1: I took it. Yeah, I remember. It's it's interesting because
Speaker 1: um I obviously also grew up in Orange County. I
Speaker 1: remember I was at tested in high school. My my
Speaker 1: sister was a cheerier U C. L A. My brother
Speaker 1: went to school there, and they didn't offer me. It
Speaker 1: wasn't late. They didn't have me till summer before my
Speaker 1: senior year, and I kind of held it against them, right.
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, like you've known me since I
Speaker 1: was knee high. I used to be a ball boy
Speaker 1: when when Walt Hazzard was there, and uh, like it was.
Speaker 1: It felt like a perfect match. Although maybe I had
Speaker 1: to kind of blow up at abc D camp before
Speaker 1: I could get there. So how did you process the
Speaker 1: idea of like, hey, I could go to u C.
Speaker 1: S B and maybe start for four years plus if
Speaker 1: you haven't been, if somebody hasn't been, I would. I
Speaker 1: would put down u C. SPS campus is the best
Speaker 1: in California, even better than Pepperdine because Pepperdine overlooks the water,
Speaker 1: whereas U c s B is literally on the water. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's like a better it's a party town. It's
Speaker 1: like it's a cool place to go to school. How
Speaker 1: did you process the idea of going to ucs B
Speaker 1: and being a star as opposed to being part of
Speaker 1: an ensemble cast at u c l A. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: my dad originally was so against the idea of me
Speaker 1: going to u c l A for exactly what you said. Uh.
Speaker 1: He thought I would be the bigger fish in the
Speaker 1: small pond at Santa Barbara, and the small fish and
Speaker 1: the big pond at U c l A. Um. Benny
Speaker 1: Hellen had just got there. He had really recruited some stars. Um.
Speaker 1: The class before me was in my position with Aaron
Speaker 1: and Falo, and the other guard was Jordan Farmer Are
Speaker 1: and Josh shipped the talented crew. Um. So at first,
Speaker 1: you know, I was a little bit hesitant because of
Speaker 1: what my dad said. Um. But after that, you know,
Speaker 1: I thought about it. I believed in myself and you
Speaker 1: shall add basketball and all the law and everything about it.
Speaker 1: You know, I just wanted to be a part of
Speaker 1: that brotherhood, that community and I just ultimately took the jump.
Speaker 1: But like you said, Santa Barbara, that campus, while unbelievable,
Speaker 1: I already knew a bunch of friends that we're going
Speaker 1: to go to school there. You know, I'm familiar with
Speaker 1: Santa Barbara and not being that far. So that that
Speaker 1: part it was tough because I was like traffic in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, you know, the whole school, Like I'm in
Speaker 1: love with the whole Santa Barbara. You skateboard, you biked,
Speaker 1: the class, can serve on the weekends. So that part
Speaker 1: it was a change of mentality and ultimately for me,
Speaker 1: I love groups and that's where I wanted out. All right,
Speaker 1: So you go to u c l A. You show
Speaker 1: up and your your first team at U c l A.
Speaker 1: Who was on it, uh was Cedric Bosman, Ryan hollwand
Speaker 1: Aarona Flanlo, Jordan Farmer, Josh Ship My my class was
Speaker 1: there and call us In Luke and Ball Mute and
Speaker 1: two other talented freshmen. We were a very star studded teams,
Speaker 1: very good teams ended up making the final four. We
Speaker 1: won the pack ten. Wow, it was great. What was
Speaker 1: it about Howland that allowed you? I mean, look, you
Speaker 1: guys had you just named off seven NBA players right
Speaker 1: outside of yourself, um, and and Josh Ship, who I
Speaker 1: don't think played in the league, but I know he
Speaker 1: played overseas. So he got seven NBA players and you
Speaker 1: being a uh, like a European League All Star Like
Speaker 1: those are some that's elite level of talent outside of
Speaker 1: the talent, which which was important. And as soon as
Speaker 1: Howland got the job, he hit the ground running in
Speaker 1: recruited l a hard. Uh. What what was it allowed
Speaker 1: that allowed him to be successful coaching wise? From your perspective, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's uh. He demands physicality and toughness and be
Speaker 1: prior to him coming at usual. I think that's what
Speaker 1: everybody was lacking there. Um, he he got the most
Speaker 1: out of our talent with that toughness. You know, he's
Speaker 1: playing hard makes up for a lot of mistakes. And
Speaker 1: we were all just able to believe in what he
Speaker 1: said in that sense, and we just played, you know,
Speaker 1: every night and gave everything and we made up for
Speaker 1: a lot of his small details that the mistakes that
Speaker 1: you make in basketball by just overcoming with your your
Speaker 1: power and your will. Yeah, And I brought some of
Speaker 1: that mentality from his time is interesting kind of the
Speaker 1: ties that bind, right, like he was he started his
Speaker 1: career at UCSB, worked his way around to the East
Speaker 1: Coast and brought some of that kind of East Coast
Speaker 1: back to u c l A. Um, your second year,
Speaker 1: you go back, you go back to the final four,
Speaker 1: and you didn't you face Florida again? Right? Wasn't that
Speaker 1: the You played him again and kind of the same
Speaker 1: thing happened, right, he used You guys used to hedgehard,
Speaker 1: almost a double team ball screens and you would always
Speaker 1: post double and it was like the one team in
Speaker 1: college basketball that you could not play that way against.
Speaker 1: It felt like the same game play in the second
Speaker 1: time around. Yeah, looking back on it, Uh, it definitely hurts. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, they had two twin dours down there, Joakim
Speaker 1: Noah and Al Horford, and yeah, we we like to
Speaker 1: double the posts. We believe that, you know, bad pastors
Speaker 1: can't pass out and good players you need help. So
Speaker 1: we kind of went with a similar game plan, and
Speaker 1: you know, they had really good pieces to that. Troy
Speaker 1: Humphries was out there, um or Lee Humphries, I think
Speaker 1: it was was out there just knocking down wide open threes.
Speaker 1: How bad did you have double? How bad did you
Speaker 1: want to be that guy? Right? Lee Humphreys, Like they
Speaker 1: had all those plays, Like, dude, if I went to Florida,
Speaker 1: that would be me. Yeah, exactly. Uh two twin dours
Speaker 1: Corey Brewer on the Wink Tory and Green was a
Speaker 1: very solid point guard for them. Uh. He just had
Speaker 1: open looks. And I mean at that level, it's cash money, Okay.
Speaker 1: So look, you play with all these different dudes. Russ
Speaker 1: comes in, right, you got DC, Darren Collison, Drew Holiday,
Speaker 1: you play with Kevin Love of those in college? Did
Speaker 1: you know Russ would be Russ? Did not know Russ
Speaker 1: would be Russ. Uh. I knew he had a crazy
Speaker 1: work ethic. But when he came in, if you go
Speaker 1: back and look at the pictures, he's this gangly, skinny freshman. Uh,
Speaker 1: you can tell he's really athletic, but you don't know
Speaker 1: if he's gonna be able to put it all together.
Speaker 1: He slowly fills out a little bit more a sophomore year,
Speaker 1: and the best thing to happen to him was that
Speaker 1: Darren Collison got hurt at the beginning of the year.
Speaker 1: We had to slide Russell over to the point guard
Speaker 1: and that's where he got his feet wet. Uh. He
Speaker 1: was very turnover prone at the time. I think he
Speaker 1: was learning the point guard position. But you could just
Speaker 1: see flashes of brilliance his athleticism out there. He could
Speaker 1: really play defense. His his rebounding was elite. And after that,
Speaker 1: I mean he just shot up the Yeah. But you
Speaker 1: also he had Remember he had that dunk against cal
Speaker 1: that was just phenomenal. But I just it was he
Speaker 1: had one against brother was But I mean, like, look,
Speaker 1: he just such a freak. But you usually wasn't known
Speaker 1: to have a great strength program, Like you didn't have
Speaker 1: guys that. Did his body change naturally or was it
Speaker 1: working with your guys? He work somebody? How did he
Speaker 1: go from nine minutes a game as a freshman to
Speaker 1: the fourth pick and such a freak athlete? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: it's amazing to see. For one, But I think Russell
Speaker 1: is just naturally gifted, um to be what he is now.
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to have a really a god
Speaker 1: given body and talent. He's worked hard, but what he
Speaker 1: has I think is not natural for many humans. Okay,
Speaker 1: what about Kevin Love? When you Kevin Love, I was
Speaker 1: always told like, dude was a star. But but there
Speaker 1: were a lot of people that didn't like Kevin Love.
Speaker 1: There was some about his personality. What was his personality
Speaker 1: like when he first showed up in Westwood. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: could tell that he loved basketball immediately. I loved that
Speaker 1: about him. He was always wanting to play. I always
Speaker 1: wanted to work. Uh, super skilled, like far more skilled
Speaker 1: than any big that we had. What works spin moves
Speaker 1: his field for the game. Where how does guys? While
Speaker 1: his feeling ability downlow was unbelieved. We played Stanford his
Speaker 1: freshman year and they had the too Lopez to end
Speaker 1: at the time, and I think he outstanded both of
Speaker 1: them combined. He's just feeling them right under the paint.
Speaker 1: They're a little taller than he is, they can't block
Speaker 1: his shot because he's so good with his body. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was a really nice guy. So his time there
Speaker 1: it was really enjoyable. Okay, So Drew comes in there,
Speaker 1: and um, when you came back from injury after your
Speaker 1: medical redshirt year, ye're behind Drew, And of course d
Speaker 1: C chose to not go pro, so they were kind
Speaker 1: of you Drew one to play the point. Hallan probably
Speaker 1: promised him played the point, only he played the two.
Speaker 1: They didn't seem to get along. What was what was
Speaker 1: Drew Holiday like to play within college? Yeah, Drew's uh
Speaker 1: a quiet guy. Um, he's very good. You could see
Speaker 1: that also the minute he stepped on the campus. The
Speaker 1: thing that struck me for Drew was his left hand.
Speaker 1: He's always going back to the left hand. He prefers that.
Speaker 1: So many guys you know, think that he's right handed.
Speaker 1: He's always trying to get that and he could just
Speaker 1: easily get by people because they're not used to that. Um.
Speaker 1: But he's very nice. And yeah, he wanted to play
Speaker 1: the point, but DC was such a good college point guard.
Speaker 1: He ran it exactly how Ben Hallen wanted, how we
Speaker 1: wanted to play defense. So it was like he got
Speaker 1: a give and take at the time for both coach
Speaker 1: and for both of them. You know, one of the
Speaker 1: things that that impressed me about your career in college
Speaker 1: was through all of this, through all these NBA talents,
Speaker 1: all Americans breeding brought in one and done, two and
Speaker 1: done whatever like it, it felt like you kept working,
Speaker 1: whereas a lot of guys they get mad and they
Speaker 1: transfer so they can play or you know, they just
Speaker 1: kind of accept their role and almost shut it down.
Speaker 1: What was really going on behind the scenes? You, your dad,
Speaker 1: you and your friends. Uh you just internally, how did
Speaker 1: you process kind of fighting for every scrap in terms
Speaker 1: of playing time and sometimes not being rewarded with it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's exactly what it was. It was a battle inside.
Speaker 1: I heard, you know, all the rumors of who they
Speaker 1: wanted to bring in. At first, it was they were
Speaker 1: really recruiting Chase budd Inger hard and my trainer was like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand they have you. Why did they want
Speaker 1: another guard? There was always something who was going to
Speaker 1: transfer in, but I was already behind in an NBA
Speaker 1: player and Aerona Flo. So for me, every day it
Speaker 1: was just trying to get better. You know. I didn't
Speaker 1: know who they were going to bring in, and I
Speaker 1: told myself I couldn't worry about that anymore. I just
Speaker 1: I was there. I was living the uh l A dream.
Speaker 1: We were really good. I had a chance to be
Speaker 1: a pro and I figured that out when I got
Speaker 1: to college. So for me, it was just trying to
Speaker 1: improve and trying to scrape as many minutes as possible.
Speaker 1: I knew we were one of the more loaded teams
Speaker 1: at the guard position in the whole country. We had
Speaker 1: to call it scouts nearly every day at practice. So
Speaker 1: it was a great opportunity. And as soon as I
Speaker 1: got in that mode, in that mode attacking all the time. Uh,
Speaker 1: you could see my improvement every year and I was
Speaker 1: gaining more and more minutes. And by the time that
Speaker 1: I was, you know, my fourth in my fifth year, Um,
Speaker 1: I was one of the leaders of the team. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He lad keemen scoring and I believe in assists. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know in your in your season season and of
Speaker 1: course you played like a hundred and forty seven games there.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows more about used to play in U c
Speaker 1: l A basketball games in mic role who joined us?
Speaker 1: All right, so here's the here's the part that that
Speaker 1: I really want to get to you get because so
Speaker 1: many people can can use this as useful information, whether
Speaker 1: it's high school kids, a you kids or coaches, college
Speaker 1: kids as well and listen to the or or just
Speaker 1: people that want to know about basketball. Your career gets
Speaker 1: done at U c l A. Yeah, you play in
Speaker 1: the Reese's All American Game at the final four. Uh,
Speaker 1: take me through the process of you had summer League,
Speaker 1: you had the draft, you have overseas basketball. Did you
Speaker 1: sign with an agent right away? What? What? What? What happened? First?
Speaker 1: Take me through the succession of events. So I'm graduated
Speaker 1: my senior I'm playing the Reese's All Star Game. That
Speaker 1: was a really fun experience. I'm kind of gauging what
Speaker 1: everybody else is doing, who they're talking to, agent wise,
Speaker 1: what their next steps are. Uh. I decided to go
Speaker 1: with Chris Emmons from Octagon. He is my agent, um,
Speaker 1: the only real agent that recruited me basically, so I
Speaker 1: was happy with that. We started training at the at
Speaker 1: the a P Facility, which is in Carson, California. Athletes
Speaker 1: performance for the pre draft. We're in there six days
Speaker 1: a week all the way from the time that I
Speaker 1: graduated into the pre draft. So I'm thinking, Okay, let's
Speaker 1: get these workouts in. I think I had eight to
Speaker 1: ten workouts. Um when I went. I killed the workouts.
Speaker 1: But the nomenclature against me, and I'm a white guy.
Speaker 1: They think I'm slow just because I'm whiteness the basketball. Uh,
Speaker 1: they think I'm strictly a shooter. I get to the workouts,
Speaker 1: I showed that I can handle a little bit. I
Speaker 1: can still get pass guys, but it's not enough to
Speaker 1: get me drafted. Um. I'm I'm realistic. I didn't think
Speaker 1: I was going to be. I just thought I had
Speaker 1: to get a shot, maybe at a camp deal or
Speaker 1: something like that. So I go, I have a great
Speaker 1: summer league. Hold on, hold on, hold away, Let's go back.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the workout. Let's go back to
Speaker 1: the workouts. Give me some give me somebody. You killed
Speaker 1: the workout. That that's that's something. You killed the workout. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not gonna say I killed, but okay,
Speaker 1: there was Um. I got to go up against one
Speaker 1: on one session with Paul George in the Valley was
Speaker 1: Danny Ainge there. It was just him and I have
Speaker 1: more than held my own. That was a very eye opening.
Speaker 1: I got to go up against Gordon Hayward for the
Speaker 1: Warriors up in up in the Bay is very well there. Um.
Speaker 1: And then the other group sessions, it was most of
Speaker 1: them were just shooting skills and I was well prepared
Speaker 1: training with mile assignment for the pre Droft that was
Speaker 1: an elite shape. So I was just out running everybody.
Speaker 1: I handled everything that they threw at me, and so
Speaker 1: as the word kind of got out that, you know,
Speaker 1: I was a little bit better than what I was
Speaker 1: able to show. Ut uh l A, I kept getting
Speaker 1: more calls to come work out, and it was better
Speaker 1: for me. You know. It's it's interesting you bring up
Speaker 1: the like the so often times we don't discuss it
Speaker 1: enough and radio and TV is the idea that hey, look,
Speaker 1: you're a white guy and so sex second you walk
Speaker 1: in the gym, the shooter right, shooter um in these
Speaker 1: and look one on one it doesn't doesn't matter as much.
Speaker 1: But how much of it did you try and prove
Speaker 1: people wrong? And how much of it did you just
Speaker 1: try and play your game right? Because that's what they
Speaker 1: say that pros do what they do well and don't
Speaker 1: do what they don't do well. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: you do want to prove like, hey, dude, I got
Speaker 1: a good first step. I am a really good athlete.
Speaker 1: How did you handle that in your workouts? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's a great point. So because me, I'm I'm great
Speaker 1: in a system. You know, I have a great feel
Speaker 1: for the game five on five. I can make reads,
Speaker 1: I can cut off other people. So I'm a lot
Speaker 1: better in that sense. But in the workouts it's one
Speaker 1: on one, two on two, so you want to show
Speaker 1: everything that you can. You know, on the one on
Speaker 1: zero you're trying to do these crazy down show that
Speaker 1: you can jump more than they think. Like you said,
Speaker 1: they think I'm a shooter immediately, they think I'm probably slow.
Speaker 1: So as I'm going up against you know, my fellow
Speaker 1: classmates and I score, whatever happens, they're kind of looking
Speaker 1: at me like, Okay, this kid can play a little
Speaker 1: bit more than I expect. That's just how it is
Speaker 1: when you're a white basketball player coming up. That's just
Speaker 1: how it goes. So try to do everything as much
Speaker 1: as you can, as best as possible, just to show that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just you're strictly a shooter. All right.
Speaker 1: So you you decide to go to Toronto for the summing,
Speaker 1: you go undrafted? What's that like? By the way, like,
Speaker 1: let's go back to the two draft. Did you watch? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did watch. I watched the probably the fifteen picks,
Speaker 1: and then after that it was just taking too long. Um,
Speaker 1: Chris had not called me saying there was any buzz,
Speaker 1: so I just figured that I wasn't going to get drafted,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to just hear from him the next
Speaker 1: day to see if we could get a camp deal
Speaker 1: or what was the next step. Uh, every day with
Speaker 1: Landry Field. So I was really excited for Landry because
Speaker 1: I had a feeling that he was going to get drafted,
Speaker 1: And as soon as I found out that the Knicks
Speaker 1: picked him, um, it was it was just a good
Speaker 1: night for that and we were all happy. Most a
Speaker 1: lot of guys, A lot of guys who I think
Speaker 1: they should get drafted fire their agent right after the draft, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's the whole thing. Everybody's I'm late first early second,
Speaker 1: and you want to be somebody's second agent, because in
Speaker 1: order to land you as their client, they have to
Speaker 1: tell you that they're going to get you drafted. Uh
Speaker 1: that was That wasn't the case with you and Chris correct, No,
Speaker 1: absolutely not. Um. I just wanted to have a good situation,
Speaker 1: whether it was trying to get a camp deal or oversea.
Speaker 1: You know, I had a couple of friends already that
Speaker 1: played overseas basketball. They liked it, So I was definitely
Speaker 1: open minded to going to Europe and going that route.
Speaker 1: So how did it come to be that your first
Speaker 1: gig end up being in Bornova in Turkey. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I go to Summer League with the Raptors. We have
Speaker 1: like a mini mini training camp up in Toronto prior
Speaker 1: to going out to Las Vegas. And that's when a
Speaker 1: bunch of those guys were young, Demard Rose and Sunny Weems,
Speaker 1: Joey Dorsey, um, Jared Jack was up there for the camp,
Speaker 1: although he was not a part of that. He was
Speaker 1: just out there shooting. We had a great camp. I
Speaker 1: definitely raised some eyes there, but again nothing happened. I
Speaker 1: think their team was already filled. So I Chris came
Speaker 1: to me, said, I got this good deal in Turkey.
Speaker 1: The Turkish League is really good. If you go show
Speaker 1: that you can play there, then you could really move
Speaker 1: up the ladder from Europe in a hurry. So I
Speaker 1: decided to take that jump, and and that's where I signed. Okay, way,
Speaker 1: let's go. Let's go back to when you're when you're
Speaker 1: in Toronto. UM my summer league experiences with the Lakers,
Speaker 1: and I remember walking to the building and the first
Speaker 1: like week I walked into the building, I was I
Speaker 1: felt like a foreigner, like I didn't belong there. You
Speaker 1: look up and there's posters. You know, there's there's Kareem,
Speaker 1: and there's Will and there's at the time, Shaq and
Speaker 1: Kobe are playing there in the winning championships, and like,
Speaker 1: what the hell am I doing here? And then like
Speaker 1: you know, a week and a half in, you start
Speaker 1: to know everybody at the facility. You start to feel
Speaker 1: like you put on the jersey. It doesn't feel foreign
Speaker 1: to you, and you have to have some sort of
Speaker 1: confidence that you can play. As much as you were
Speaker 1: raising eyebrows, was there a moment to which you're like, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make this thing, only to have it have it?
Speaker 1: Have it worked the other way when they came in
Speaker 1: and told you we're gonna We're gonna let you go
Speaker 1: and and keep an eye on him. Yeah, we played
Speaker 1: I think it was we played the Knicks in the
Speaker 1: summer League. I think it was maybe the first or
Speaker 1: second game, and I hadn't been playing too much and
Speaker 1: then they gave me a huge opportunity in the second half. Um,
Speaker 1: I really made some nice buckets. I think it was
Speaker 1: like team points in the second half. And after that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, they're gonna give me a real chance
Speaker 1: from here on, now, this and that, and then it
Speaker 1: kind of just didn't go my way after that point
Speaker 1: and get as much playing time. They told me that
Speaker 1: they were already stacked at the guard positions, so they
Speaker 1: weren't looking for another one. And that's when it was
Speaker 1: like kind of like a blow, you know, to the stomach.
Speaker 1: As much as I didn't think I was going to
Speaker 1: be able to make the NBA my first year round it,
Speaker 1: it still hurts to hear, no, no, no question. I
Speaker 1: think the other thing is your college career, because you
Speaker 1: had so many different roles, actually probably prepares you to
Speaker 1: be a role player in the NBA better than other guys, right,
Speaker 1: Like most guys. The hardest thing I think that most
Speaker 1: players adjust struggle to adjust to is you know, from
Speaker 1: the time they're eight years old until the time that
Speaker 1: they're drafted in the NBA, they start, they play three
Speaker 1: quarters or more of the minutes, and so now you
Speaker 1: get to a higher level of competition with harder rules,
Speaker 1: further shots, fewer touches, and you're supposed to play better,
Speaker 1: you know, play play more efficient basketball, which is, by
Speaker 1: the way, what you had had to do to get
Speaker 1: on the court at U C. L A limited shots,
Speaker 1: limited opportunities, and be more efficient even than starters during
Speaker 1: that time. Like the crazy part about it is, because
Speaker 1: of your various roles at U C l A, you're
Speaker 1: actually probably more prepared to be a bench player in
Speaker 1: the NBA than many more elite athletic talents or how
Speaker 1: they perceived to be better prospects that you couldn't have
Speaker 1: put that in a better way. A lot of these
Speaker 1: guys growing up, you know, obviously they're spoon fed so
Speaker 1: many things from so many people telling them they're the best.
Speaker 1: They still think that they have that killer mentality. But
Speaker 1: when you get to the m b A, it's a niche.
Speaker 1: There's only a few superstars on the team that get
Speaker 1: the ball so many twenty times a game, or more
Speaker 1: so everybody that they're looking for. You've got to find
Speaker 1: your niche in the league. It's a specialty. So for me,
Speaker 1: I could easily accept that role willingly. I've done it before.
Speaker 1: I would be happy to do it then. But a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys are not willing to maybe take
Speaker 1: a step back in their eyes to further their career,
Speaker 1: to make their career longer. So like you said, I
Speaker 1: could have easily filled that that that role for a
Speaker 1: long time compared to others. Yeah, man, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: some dudes that got drafted in two thousand tens. Some
Speaker 1: of these names aren't gonna sit well with you, you know.
Speaker 1: Like look land Stevenson right behind Landry. He's still in
Speaker 1: the league. But like Andy Rautins, I know his dad
Speaker 1: was a great player. He's a good shooter at Syracuse,
Speaker 1: but come on, man, he didn't do the things all
Speaker 1: the thing. I mean, tiny Gallen guy, he's he's stunk.
Speaker 1: Willy Warren, a couple of Oklahoma guys. He he There's
Speaker 1: some guys that ever even got I love these guys.
Speaker 1: They're not even playing anymore. It makes you wonder, like
Speaker 1: did they even love basketball? Where they're willing to work,
Speaker 1: it's just because maybe they had a better situation in
Speaker 1: college or had more opportunity on a lesser team so
Speaker 1: they got a better look. But if you look at
Speaker 1: who I was playing with every day, it was it
Speaker 1: was like an NBA team already, no question, no question.
Speaker 1: Daniel Orton, who didn't even play at Kentucky. He got
Speaker 1: drafted by Orlando uh in the first round, and I
Speaker 1: mean never really Sniff. The NBA. Mike Role is our
Speaker 1: guest here on the All Ball Podcast. What do you
Speaker 1: remember about your the first flight from Orange from Southern
Speaker 1: California from l a X to to Turkey. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was a harsh landing I got there. I had never
Speaker 1: been to Turkey before. Um. I had to use the
Speaker 1: restroom immediately when I got off the flight. So I
Speaker 1: go in inside the airport. Uh, there's no toilets. It's
Speaker 1: the hole in the ground and it's extremely hot. I
Speaker 1: don't speak Turkish. I'm super flustered, like what am I
Speaker 1: doing here? So I have this moment. I'm thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: I need to lock it up. I need to get
Speaker 1: it together. But it's just all coming at me. It's surreal.
Speaker 1: I'm in a completely foreign country. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to communicate with these people. I don't know who's picking
Speaker 1: me up. I have no idea where to go. I'm
Speaker 1: sweating profusely because I have all these bags. It's already
Speaker 1: super hot. It's like I grew up in a great
Speaker 1: location in southern California, and here I am. Why am
Speaker 1: I doing this? You when you landed, where did you
Speaker 1: Where did you? Where did you let na Istambol because
Speaker 1: because like Bornova, that's a different like you gotta take
Speaker 1: another flight, right, So when you got uf Bornova is
Speaker 1: in Ismir, so I had to make a connecting flight
Speaker 1: down to ismuir Um. Well, now that I'm familiar with
Speaker 1: the Ismir is a beautiful place in in uh in Turkey.
Speaker 1: But at the time I had no idea, and I
Speaker 1: didn't know that the bathrooms were like that. I didn't
Speaker 1: know about the rayer calls going on. It was all
Speaker 1: just hitting me like uh, like I was wide eyed. Okay,
Speaker 1: so uh you land because I so I remember my
Speaker 1: first flight to to Russia. Okay, so you land and
Speaker 1: the yeah, the the having them pick you up like again,
Speaker 1: now it's not as big a deal because now you
Speaker 1: have I mean probably you're you're still it's like cell
Speaker 1: phone and text message or whatever. But you you finally
Speaker 1: walk out of that restroom and what was there a
Speaker 1: guy with a sign that had a basketball on it.
Speaker 1: It was written in Turkish? Is that about right? So
Speaker 1: you would think the guy wasn't even there to pick
Speaker 1: me up on time. So I go out. I have
Speaker 1: all these bags, I have no idea where to go,
Speaker 1: so I just sit on this bench, and he's like
Speaker 1: forty minutes late to picking me up. He comes in
Speaker 1: with a piece of paper, says Michael Roll, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, thanks for being on time, thanks for letting
Speaker 1: me come from half way across the world, and this
Speaker 1: is what you have to do. So I was already upset.
Speaker 1: I was already you know, really flustered, and so he
Speaker 1: picks me up and and then it just goes downhill
Speaker 1: from he So then, so then where you go? Did
Speaker 1: you go right to practice the facility? Did you go
Speaker 1: to your new apartment where he took me to my
Speaker 1: apartment or what I thought was going to be in
Speaker 1: my apartment, But it was a disaster. The bed frames
Speaker 1: were broken, there was nails hanging out, the freezer was
Speaker 1: already iced over. They hadn't cleaned it and since the
Speaker 1: end of last season, so like three months prior. The
Speaker 1: windows were all close. So it just smelled so bad
Speaker 1: and I just couldn't handle it. Was I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not sleeping here, what is this? And so he said, okay,
Speaker 1: so he it took me to a different apartment that
Speaker 1: they had. We spent the night and then I went
Speaker 1: to training camp the next morning. So so you go
Speaker 1: to training camp and again, like you've played in all
Speaker 1: these teams and all these parts of the state. Do
Speaker 1: you remember did anything stick out to you about about
Speaker 1: your first training session in training camp? You know, I
Speaker 1: thought it was I thought it was going to be
Speaker 1: strictly basketball. But over there, you know, they play soccer
Speaker 1: to warm up. Sometimes we played tag. We played partner
Speaker 1: tag where you have to hold a hand, then you
Speaker 1: have to go tag another two people. It was like
Speaker 1: they were just punching the time card. We weren't there
Speaker 1: to play basketball and get better. It was like just
Speaker 1: just fun for them. It was just really strange. It
Speaker 1: was really strange. Did you have to do the Cooper
Speaker 1: test for the conditioning. I remember having to do the
Speaker 1: Cooper test. We have to go out and run on
Speaker 1: the track right and there's like an optimal time. And
Speaker 1: like I remember, like you're hanging out with vet Americans
Speaker 1: and VET Americans like, man, this ship doesn't matter, whereas
Speaker 1: like I'm sitting here like dude, I'm trying to make
Speaker 1: the team. I'm spritting the whole way. What was your mentality? Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly like that. You know, as a rookie, I'm like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I better be first, I better finished. I want to play.
Speaker 1: Coach needs to like me. So I'm like spring hard
Speaker 1: doing all these the dumb drills, and the couple of
Speaker 1: vets on my team are just laughing, laying in the back,
Speaker 1: just just kind of slowly getting in shape them. So
Speaker 1: how did the season go? Uh? I didn't even end
Speaker 1: up finishing the year there. Uh. It was going fine
Speaker 1: while I was there, and then I ended up, um
Speaker 1: going to a different team in Belgium because they started
Speaker 1: to have some money issues. Um, dudes, we were getting
Speaker 1: paid late. So yeah, I went to Belgium about January
Speaker 1: of that season. Okay, but so when when you let
Speaker 1: you leave Turkey and you go to Belgium, But you
Speaker 1: went to one of the better teams. Wasn't Antwerp one
Speaker 1: of the better teams in Belgium? Yes? And and I
Speaker 1: think like you guys even got to the finals. What
Speaker 1: was the level of competition? Like compare and contrast playing
Speaker 1: in Turkey to playing in Belgium. So the level in
Speaker 1: Turkey it's higher. Um, there's a bigger budget teams, um,
Speaker 1: some really good foreigners there. Belgium is more of a
Speaker 1: smaller league. Um. But it was still very good competition,
Speaker 1: still some pros throughout there. So it was a lot
Speaker 1: easier living um wise in Belgium more similar to the States,
Speaker 1: really really clean. When I've been there has been super
Speaker 1: super clean. Yeah, it's an amazing country. I couldn't have
Speaker 1: enjoyed my time more. I made friends that I still
Speaker 1: have to this day while in Belgium, and I mean
Speaker 1: there's just memory stick out and I would love to
Speaker 1: go back anytime. Okay, so you get done, you lead
Speaker 1: them to the finals. Uh, and you had some huge games.
Speaker 1: So you start your you start in Turkey, you end
Speaker 1: in Belgium. You get back home to the States, and
Speaker 1: what's your agents saying? Uh? He's he's asking me if
Speaker 1: I want to do the summer league route again. Um.
Speaker 1: And at that point, it's already June, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: holy cow, like my summer is already about to finish
Speaker 1: and I just got home. So he's telling me, these
Speaker 1: couple of teams are calling, an Italian team is calling.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I've heard about basketball in Italy. I've
Speaker 1: heard it's great. Um. You know. The process goes on,
Speaker 1: but I end up resigning with Antwerp for my second year.
Speaker 1: I got some some fairly good money at the time,
Speaker 1: and you know I just wanted to go with that.
Speaker 1: So you go back, Um, how did how did it
Speaker 1: come about that you end up in Zaragoza? So after
Speaker 1: my second year in in Belgium, I played great that year, Um,
Speaker 1: just the Spanish team the following season they wanted me.
Speaker 1: I signed the one plus one contract and I ended
Speaker 1: up playing two years there. Okay, Zaragoza is in the
Speaker 1: A c B. It's arguably the best, the best league
Speaker 1: outside of the NBA. Right is that? That's not a
Speaker 1: that's a fair like I know some of the top Okay,
Speaker 1: So now tell me about the flight from the States
Speaker 1: to Spain to Zaragoza in comparison to the one you
Speaker 1: told us about in Turkey. By now you've traveled overseas
Speaker 1: a but you laying there is there a is there
Speaker 1: a ticker tape parade? Is there a bunch of dudes
Speaker 1: Minia or are you waiting on the curb again like
Speaker 1: you were in Turkey. So immediately prior to me leaving,
Speaker 1: they tell me exactly what's happening. I'm catching this flight.
Speaker 1: We've already set up a taxicab to pick you up
Speaker 1: in Madrid take you to the train station, you take
Speaker 1: the high speed rail to Zaragoza. It was all very organized.
Speaker 1: There was already people waiting for me when I got
Speaker 1: off the train station in Zaragosa. It was it was great.
Speaker 1: They were very welcoming and they were ready for my arrival.
Speaker 1: So that that was awesome. So you got to play
Speaker 1: against some of these players that are now in the States,
Speaker 1: many of they are still starting overseas. Who's the best
Speaker 1: player you ever playing against in Spain in Spain? Um, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, last year, Luca don Chet's was very good.
Speaker 1: I will definitely say that. But at the time, maybe
Speaker 1: Sergio Yule, he plays for Real Madrid. He is fantastic.
Speaker 1: I think the Houston Rockets have his rights, but I
Speaker 1: think he's just gonna stay in Spain for his whole career.
Speaker 1: Then you went back to Turkey, spent two years in Spain.
Speaker 1: You went back to Turkey second time, and I played
Speaker 1: for two different actually three or four different clubs in Turkey,
Speaker 1: like are you and and then when did you get
Speaker 1: Tunisian citizenship? That was one of those deals right where
Speaker 1: you gotta paid like twenty grand to get Tunisian citizenship.
Speaker 1: So you you call, you call if I write like
Speaker 1: you're you're you have no Tunisian background, are you? I
Speaker 1: do not? But so I played with salom Mezri who
Speaker 1: plays for the Mavericks East Tunisian. I played with him
Speaker 1: in Belgium and they can nationalize one player for the
Speaker 1: afro Basket and the Olympics. So I spoke with him
Speaker 1: and the coach and I was able to get that
Speaker 1: done and that has been a real blessing and so
Speaker 1: much fun. Okay, so you get to play with the
Speaker 1: Tunisian national national team? What is that? Like? That? Wow?
Speaker 1: What an experience? I uh I first played a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago at the Afro Basket UM in Tunis,
Speaker 1: Tunisia actually, and we the winner was able to go
Speaker 1: to the Olympics the following year. So we had a
Speaker 1: really good chance. We're a very good team. We did
Speaker 1: come up short. We lost in the semifinals to Angola
Speaker 1: UM and then we ended up winning the bronze the
Speaker 1: third place team. Okay, what's what's what's what's Tunisia like?
Speaker 1: Tunisia is it's a lot like Grief. It's a beautiful country,
Speaker 1: it's a coastal uh water is very clear, they speak French, Arabic.
Speaker 1: Uh it's it's really a great place. So I suggest
Speaker 1: anybody go up they can. Okay. So when you when
Speaker 1: you go to Tunisia and you being you know, having
Speaker 1: Tunisian citizenship, what do you do? They speak English to you?
Speaker 1: Do you know French? Now? How do you? How do
Speaker 1: you function? So the coach really cool guy. He speaks
Speaker 1: many different languages. He would speak French to the guys
Speaker 1: and either they would break it down for me, um,
Speaker 1: for the few French words that I didn't know, or
Speaker 1: he would just speak to me in English. Um, I
Speaker 1: me you know the things that I didn't need to understand.
Speaker 1: If you were just talking to everybody else, then they
Speaker 1: would just let it fly by. But otherwise they would
Speaker 1: break it down to me. However I wanted you mentioned
Speaker 1: the calls to prayer. Of course, playing all these years
Speaker 1: in Turkey, playing as a member of the Tunisian national team,
Speaker 1: you're playing in countries which are either partially or predominantly Muslim.
Speaker 1: How how have how have you been treated as an
Speaker 1: American playing in these foreign countries? When uhh, you know,
Speaker 1: when there's there's this perception of a divide internationally between
Speaker 1: Muslims and Americans. Yeah, so there's that perception, but through
Speaker 1: the basketball lines, it doesn't happen. I've been treated great.
Speaker 1: As soon as I mentioned you know, I'm here for basketball.
Speaker 1: I play for this club. Everything is fantastic. They welcome
Speaker 1: me with open arms. There. They always have so many questions,
Speaker 1: you know, what's America? Like, Oh, you're from California. Oh
Speaker 1: I want to visit there? Is it like the TV
Speaker 1: show that oc It just goes on and on. But
Speaker 1: everybody is very friendly and it's been great. It is
Speaker 1: like the TV show. See right, do you say that's
Speaker 1: exactly what it's like. It's actually a lot like nine
Speaker 1: O two one. Oh, that's exactly. Uh, that's exactly what
Speaker 1: it's like where I grew up, very similar. Okay, this
Speaker 1: year you end up going to Israel playing for Maccabi
Speaker 1: tel Aviv and look, you played for best toash, we
Speaker 1: mentioned you played in Spain. Um. Maccabi tel Aviv to
Speaker 1: people who don't know, is one of the premier clubs
Speaker 1: in all of of FIBA. Uh, I gotta I gotta
Speaker 1: first ask you when you sign with Maccabi tell Aviv
Speaker 1: and you go through customs like one of the things
Speaker 1: that does set off an alarm is when you have
Speaker 1: Arabic on your passport, and obviously and you have a
Speaker 1: Tunisian passport, which is an Arabic country. Was there any issues?
Speaker 1: Did they give you any pushback when you first showed
Speaker 1: up at Maccabi tel Aviv? No? Absolutely not. First of all,
Speaker 1: I'm presenting my American passport. Um. But I think Maccabi
Speaker 1: tel Aviv is such a huge brand throughout Israel that
Speaker 1: they know all of the players as soon as they
Speaker 1: signed them. So I land and it's nothing but love.
Speaker 1: They're excited for the new season. Um. They know that
Speaker 1: I already played for the team, which I did not
Speaker 1: know at the time. You know, everybody's already knows knows
Speaker 1: everything about me. It seems like it's just pure love. Okay.
Speaker 1: So you're playing with MacCabe Telva and people didn't follow
Speaker 1: you guys season. You guys had kind of up and
Speaker 1: down your curial season. Um, and you end up when
Speaker 1: the Cup and the league championship, which was in doubt
Speaker 1: for a good portion of the season, playing for a
Speaker 1: team that is you're basically the lakers of the country. Right.
Speaker 1: That's not a that's not an overstatement, right, Like, you're
Speaker 1: expected to doing everything, You're expected in every game, You're
Speaker 1: expected to get to the final four, and they covered
Speaker 1: on the on the nightly news, they get all the
Speaker 1: news stations cover everything. That's that's kind of your first
Speaker 1: experience since u c l A of playing for a
Speaker 1: dominant franchise, right, Is that fair? Yeah? Absolutely? So what
Speaker 1: was it like for you to play inside that fish
Speaker 1: bowl while you know, learning how to play in Israel?
Speaker 1: You know, for me, it was fine. Um, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: very much all about the hoop when I when I'm
Speaker 1: playing during the season, you know, I take care of
Speaker 1: my body. I'm not going out at night, and I
Speaker 1: live in this wild lifestyle. So for me, whenever I'm
Speaker 1: out and people are saying something, you know there, it's
Speaker 1: just we're wishing you look. But like you said, as
Speaker 1: soon as we lose a game, it's like the world
Speaker 1: is upside down. How could we lose to them? We're
Speaker 1: not supposed to lose any games, So it was definitely
Speaker 1: everything was very magnified. But as soon as I got
Speaker 1: used to that, you know, it's totally great and I
Speaker 1: learned to appreciate it. You're working on here, your eighth
Speaker 1: season as a as a professional, on my ninth going
Speaker 1: on your nice sorry we're working your ninth season as
Speaker 1: a professional, and I guess you mentioned taking care of
Speaker 1: your body. Let's let's go from you're in college, you
Speaker 1: go through the pre draft process, you work with Miles
Speaker 1: and and those guys that athletes performance, UM to now like,
Speaker 1: how do you do you do you keep working on
Speaker 1: the same things. Do you try and add something to
Speaker 1: your game? What's your process been like in the off season? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so every summer is a little bit different as far
Speaker 1: as what I want to add. Um, I've definitely tightened
Speaker 1: my hand handle over the years, a lot more things
Speaker 1: have becoming off the balance and through the pick and roll,
Speaker 1: so that has definitely been added to my game. Um.
Speaker 1: I've added strength over time, and you know, I've had
Speaker 1: to play different roles for every team. So as soon
Speaker 1: as I find out where I'm going and what what
Speaker 1: kind of role I'm going to be playing, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of what I year the summer towards. How much
Speaker 1: easier is it playing a second year with the same club.
Speaker 1: You did it in in Belgium, you did it in Spain,
Speaker 1: and now you're doing it with Maccabi Tel Aviv. One
Speaker 1: of the things I think that guys I personally struggle
Speaker 1: with is like, you know, it takes you a good
Speaker 1: amount of time to kind of learn the surroundings, learned
Speaker 1: the coach. Every country has a different style of basketball. Uh,
Speaker 1: you played in Turkey for a good amount of time. Um,
Speaker 1: is that part of your thought process which is like, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe I can go out and search the extra do
Speaker 1: or somewhere else, but I'm more likely to have success
Speaker 1: going back to the same place because I know everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: basketball is a basketball, so you know there's a few
Speaker 1: minor differences, but as soon as you get on the court,
Speaker 1: you know, everything's pretty similar. But if the off the
Speaker 1: course stuff that makes you feel comfortable and being in
Speaker 1: a foreign country so far away from home, the more
Speaker 1: comfortable yard, the better you're gonna play. So as I'm
Speaker 1: familiar with where to go to get my groceries, where
Speaker 1: to get my hair cut, you know, every little thing,
Speaker 1: every detail of it, it comes easier. I feel more
Speaker 1: comfortable and things just go better on the court. How
Speaker 1: do you maintain contact with the States? You know, I
Speaker 1: think one of the things it's easier now obviously and
Speaker 1: in Israel. You can watch ESPN and and you can
Speaker 1: you can feel like it's but it's it's not America,
Speaker 1: right like, and you do still like you want to
Speaker 1: watch football on a Saturday. You want to watch football
Speaker 1: on a Sunday. You want to still feel like you
Speaker 1: know that. How do you how do you how do
Speaker 1: you maintain the balance of home all being abroad this long. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you you have to do it as best as you can.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's technology. I have a swing
Speaker 1: box which connects to my my TV in America, so
Speaker 1: I you keep the same television shows, the same sporting events.
Speaker 1: I even get the same commercials. Um. You know, obviously
Speaker 1: FaceTime is a huge thing with your friends, I message,
Speaker 1: so you just gotta balance it. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of things happen so late at night Israeli time compared
Speaker 1: to what's going on in the States for sporting events.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times you'll record something and stay
Speaker 1: up the next and watch it the next day, so
Speaker 1: you're not staying up all night. Um. You know, you've
Speaker 1: got the group chats are always going off in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night because it's their their evening time.
Speaker 1: You have to, you know, just pick and choose what
Speaker 1: you want to deal with. What about your diet. Diet
Speaker 1: is is strong, a lot of vegetables. The older I get,
Speaker 1: more more greens, more veggies. Try to stay chicken and fish,
Speaker 1: stay away from from the red meat as much as
Speaker 1: I can. Um having good starches, you know, sweet potatoes, kingwaw,
Speaker 1: brown rice, things like that, So you really have to
Speaker 1: stay on top of it the older you get. Is
Speaker 1: it fair to say that there are a lot of
Speaker 1: guys that maybe have more athletic pure athletic talent that
Speaker 1: have fallen by the wayside, either going out, Uh, they
Speaker 1: couldn't adjust to like what you did in Turkey right,
Speaker 1: show up, they don't know anybody, they freak out, Dude,
Speaker 1: I gotta go home, or or the diet Like look,
Speaker 1: diet can can undo you just as much as anything else.
Speaker 1: Because you're not eating right, your body is gonna break down.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get hurt and not perform at the same level.
Speaker 1: It's some of these, some of those ancillary things which
Speaker 1: leads guys like we mentioned into two thousand ten draft
Speaker 1: to not be playing as opposed to here you are
Speaker 1: thirty one years old going on your ninth year seemingly
Speaker 1: getting better and getting paid more money. Yeah, now that's
Speaker 1: the thing. At first it's you know, they don't want
Speaker 1: to go away from home, but then it's once it
Speaker 1: comes down to after that, it's it's basketball. It's taking
Speaker 1: care of your body. Um, the less sleep you get
Speaker 1: if you go now more if you're eating McDonald's you
Speaker 1: know on the weekly. Uh, some guys I've seen doing
Speaker 1: on the daily, they'll tara hamstrings, be out six weeks,
Speaker 1: try to recover, come back, hurt their ankle. That you
Speaker 1: do that one season, you're liable to either get a
Speaker 1: very bad job the following year or be done. So
Speaker 1: it all adds up in the diet just becomes more
Speaker 1: evident to later you get in your career. What about
Speaker 1: the NBA dream? Have you been up on it? I
Speaker 1: have not. Um, I'm not so much chasing it because
Speaker 1: I make a very good salary playing in Europe now.
Speaker 1: But you know, the past couple of weeks I've been
Speaker 1: running with the Lakers up in Elsa Gundel. Um, I
Speaker 1: can still play with those guys. I'm still doing great. Um,
Speaker 1: it's definitely evident. But to have a team want to
Speaker 1: take a early to mid thirty year year old white
Speaker 1: guy as a rookie. It's not likely. I know that,
Speaker 1: but of course I would love to be in the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean, don't you fit? Don't you it? Like,
Speaker 1: let's just say the Lakers, right, isn't that what they
Speaker 1: should want if they want to compete for a championship?
Speaker 1: Is a guy who I'm not gonna say, fat girl
Speaker 1: the problem, just happy to be there, but a guy
Speaker 1: who understands how fortunate you are to be there, to
Speaker 1: come off the bench, being able to play five minutes
Speaker 1: or thirty five minutes. And you know, like you said,
Speaker 1: you're all about hoop. You know how to play. If
Speaker 1: you get the ball and you're open, you make a shot.
Speaker 1: If not, you can move the ball and play within
Speaker 1: the system. Shouldn't Like I've always thought if I was
Speaker 1: running a team, those are the guys that I want
Speaker 1: to fill out my bench with because they've been pros.
Speaker 1: They completely understand how to play, and and the older
Speaker 1: you are, the more shots you make, the smarter the
Speaker 1: passes you make. I mean, I guess with the with
Speaker 1: the with the perception be the defensive end, and the
Speaker 1: ability to guard people. I mean, you hit it right,
Speaker 1: on the head. Uh No, nobody said all these um
Speaker 1: upper office people were the brightness humans. But I know
Speaker 1: how to I know how to play. I know who
Speaker 1: needs to get what shot. I can easily knock down
Speaker 1: the open shot and create a little bit. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean maybe it's it's the defense. Um you never know.
Speaker 1: But I've been playing great with the Lakers the last
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Um, so I'm already friends with Luke Wallen.
Speaker 1: So that's that's where that connection is. And you know,
Speaker 1: we joke about it, but you know it's at the
Speaker 1: NBA now, I think it's just going more towards the
Speaker 1: younger player with the more potential. Yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know though, but I feel like at the top
Speaker 1: level it's more about skill than it is athleticism. Right
Speaker 1: that skill has come back. Skill shooting and passing has
Speaker 1: come back into the game, um as people have gone
Speaker 1: along with analytics like oh wait a second, your ability
Speaker 1: to make a shot. Now you also have to be
Speaker 1: able to defend multiple positions. But that's not always I
Speaker 1: think some people think it's about athletic ability. I think
Speaker 1: it's about you know, internal toughness, right, because you just
Speaker 1: can't get punked and you can't allow yourself to get
Speaker 1: put in a bad spot. And even hey, sometimes you
Speaker 1: can play great defense in the NBA and you're playing
Speaker 1: against better players and they just make shots. But I
Speaker 1: actually think I think there are there is, there are
Speaker 1: some young players, but those guys get stuff away in
Speaker 1: the G League, and for the teams that really want
Speaker 1: to win, they want skill, they want shooting, they want passing.
Speaker 1: Now you're you're absolutely right. Um, So like the dream
Speaker 1: is still there. Whether it's going to be pursued next
Speaker 1: season or not, I mean that's to be determined, so
Speaker 1: we'll see. Okay, I want to ask you about Luke
Speaker 1: Luca don Check. What's he like? To describe him as
Speaker 1: somebody who's played against him, Yeah, he's incredibly skilled. Uh,
Speaker 1: he sees the game, you know, a couple of plays
Speaker 1: ahead of what's happening. He's got a great feel. Whether
Speaker 1: it's passing, he can really shoot it. He's a really
Speaker 1: big guard. So I think he's gonna do just fine.
Speaker 1: And the more experience he gets in America, the better
Speaker 1: he'll do. You mentioned playing against the Lakers. The Lakers
Speaker 1: have this interesting confluence, right, they have these older guys
Speaker 1: the Rondo's de Lan Stevenson's the Javels, and of course Lebron,
Speaker 1: and then they have the younger guys who though they
Speaker 1: weren't really successful in terms of wins and losses, they
Speaker 1: started to win some games last year and they want
Speaker 1: to kind of play Luke system. And Luke come from
Speaker 1: not just triangle with with Phil Jackson, but also you
Speaker 1: know Bald movement. A lot less is a lot less
Speaker 1: pick and rolls from from Golden State. How do you
Speaker 1: see that playing out? I think they're gonna be great,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I think they're there are two units,
Speaker 1: all incredibly talented. They can really go, they can score.
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna let Lebron maybe take a lesser
Speaker 1: role the first, you know, forty minutes of the game
Speaker 1: so he's not so tired, and then once it comes
Speaker 1: down the crunch time. I mean they have the trump card. Basically,
Speaker 1: he's he's amazing. Obviously you give the ball to him
Speaker 1: at the end of the game and anything, he's tight.
Speaker 1: They're they're are the winning are very good. What do
Speaker 1: you think of brandon Ingram? Wow? Crazy talented. I didn't
Speaker 1: know he was that long. I mean, he's just like
Speaker 1: he's I don't know, like a tarantula out there. Everything
Speaker 1: he does, he shot is pure so skilled. I mean,
Speaker 1: as soon as he can get more weight on himself
Speaker 1: and and learning the game more, he's gonna be even better. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Josh Hart blew up at Summer League. You think can
Speaker 1: he be an NBA starter? Yeah? Absolutely, He's really good,
Speaker 1: very strong, can really shooting easy, crazy strong, right, Mike
Speaker 1: crazy strong? Isn't he like he's like in the conversation
Speaker 1: of strongest guys on that team. I think last year
Speaker 1: he was the strongest guy in the team. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean you could just just look at him. You see
Speaker 1: a super built But the way he plays, you know,
Speaker 1: he gets his shoulder into somebody and he's knocking them back,
Speaker 1: creating space for himself. I think he's going to play
Speaker 1: a great year. Uh, Kuzmo, what do you like about
Speaker 1: his game? I mean, obviously he blew up as a rookie,
Speaker 1: twenty two year old rookie. Seemingly he was better as
Speaker 1: an off the bench for than he was his starting
Speaker 1: corps um. What what what's his game like? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: I just love that he was always there super early
Speaker 1: and staying late. He's another guy that loves it. He's
Speaker 1: working super hard um in the in the games, his
Speaker 1: motor is just incredible. He's, you know, right at you.
Speaker 1: He doesn't matter who's in front of him. He's going
Speaker 1: at them trying to get buckets, and he's just really
Speaker 1: good slashing and getting through there. All right, now, we
Speaker 1: talked a little bov diet. We talked about your your
Speaker 1: own kind of progression into being a star player in
Speaker 1: Europe and obviously playing with the Cove Tel Aviv. If
Speaker 1: you could go back and you were to tell your
Speaker 1: high school self, because there's a lot of this just
Speaker 1: all about basketball. Guys, you're listening to this, what would
Speaker 1: you do on a daily basis in order to if
Speaker 1: you're like going to work on your game, how would
Speaker 1: you go about it if you were back in high school? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would take it a little bit more serious at
Speaker 1: a younger age. You know, I tried to, you know,
Speaker 1: not just go out there and play and you know,
Speaker 1: just you know, mess around with your friends, but try
Speaker 1: to try to be a little more serious with it.
Speaker 1: Try to envy our emulate the guys in the league,
Speaker 1: so see what the NBA wants and try to work
Speaker 1: on those skills every day. Well well, well, was there
Speaker 1: a number of shots per day that they should make
Speaker 1: that they should tell amount of time that you that
Speaker 1: they should like, there's there is a limit to which
Speaker 1: you don't want to burn a dude out. But like, look,
Speaker 1: if you say you love ball, get in the gym,
Speaker 1: how many shots today? How long should you be working out? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean if you if you love hoop and you're
Speaker 1: not gonna get burnt out? I mean the minimum every
Speaker 1: day I think should be at least minimum to fifty
Speaker 1: making or taking taking. Um, the older you get, you know,
Speaker 1: the more makes you're gonna have. So the younger kids
Speaker 1: at least take two fifty and then just just play
Speaker 1: as much as you can, whether it's the camps in
Speaker 1: the summer that you get invited to, or you know,
Speaker 1: the pick up runs at night after dinner, whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. What about au team? Would you play with
Speaker 1: the bigger team to which you have to share minutes
Speaker 1: and share the ball, or would you play with the
Speaker 1: team to which you get to be the guy? Uh?
Speaker 1: For me, we were a smaller team, So I would
Speaker 1: say just just go to where you can play and
Speaker 1: and you can plays as much as your game as
Speaker 1: possible so people can see it, which is kind of
Speaker 1: counter dope. While you went to U C l A though,
Speaker 1: I want to point that one out right, I guess
Speaker 1: that is true. Um, but as soon as I was seen, um,
Speaker 1: you know, then I really believe in myself and then
Speaker 1: I could could be seen at any point. At that point,
Speaker 1: I have John Bart. How do you dear? Debart Tabelloe?
Speaker 1: John de Bartlomeyo is going to join us as well
Speaker 1: on the on the pod. He's an amazing story, a
Speaker 1: complete unknown. Um. The other area that I lived in
Speaker 1: for a couple of years, Westport, where where he's from. Like,
Speaker 1: is he the guy? He's got one of those guys
Speaker 1: to which I had literally like, look, I've been doing
Speaker 1: this covering sport for fifteen years. I've never heard of him,
Speaker 1: and like you go to Israel, like have you ever
Speaker 1: seen him play? No? Check him out. He's awesome. He's
Speaker 1: one of those stories of a guy that you didn't
Speaker 1: know of and now all of a sudden he's a really,
Speaker 1: really talented player. How often do you come upon guys
Speaker 1: like that? Yeah, it's it's a rare. His story is
Speaker 1: definitely rare. He he's another guy that loves hoop and
Speaker 1: his work ethic is insane, and that's his reason for
Speaker 1: being here. His game is incredible, and I'm so happy
Speaker 1: that he's my teammate. Listen, we listen, We wish you
Speaker 1: save travels uh to Ben Gurion Airport. I hope you're
Speaker 1: now your apartment overlooked? The water is that? Are you on?
Speaker 1: Are you on the beach? Very close? I'm a five
Speaker 1: minute walk to the beach. Now have you have you
Speaker 1: broken out? Do you have a board there? Can you
Speaker 1: surf there? I don't surf there just because, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to get hurt throughout the season, so
Speaker 1: I keep that for the summertime. Your favorite surf spot
Speaker 1: in southern California is what Salt Creek Beach where Salt
Speaker 1: Creek yep um waves have to be. How big before
Speaker 1: you you get excited and go down to Salt Creek,
Speaker 1: Oh man, anything three to six ft in that's ideal
Speaker 1: for me. Three to six ft is ideal. You are
Speaker 1: when you first your place that this is where I
Speaker 1: grew up playing pick up basketball was where um Main Beach,
Speaker 1: Laguna Main Beach, Laguna at the half court to three
Speaker 1: on three, which they've redone. Do they still play down there?
Speaker 1: I've I've been back in here. What what days they play?
Speaker 1: Early Saturday mornings? And last I heard it was Wednesday night.
Speaker 1: Wednesday nights. All right, still time to get it in. Uh,
Speaker 1: next week, last thing, and uh this is kind of
Speaker 1: the the most the most important thing. Jordan or Lebron.
Speaker 1: Jordan's why I grew up watching him, and I think
Speaker 1: he started it for everybody fair enough. It's the tiger
Speaker 1: of Tiger effective of basketball. Hey Man, safe travels. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for telling us your story and joining us
Speaker 1: on the All Ball Podcast. Thank you very much. Thanks Mike,
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Many later. I hope you enjoyed the
Speaker 1: All Ball Podcast. I'm dougl