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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jameel Hill and welcome to politics.

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Speaker 1: And I heard podcasts and unbothered production time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 1: After the Dallas Mavericks miraculously landed the number one pick

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Speaker 1: in the NBA Draft despite having just a one point

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Speaker 1: eight percent chance of doing so, there was only one

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Speaker 1: question nearly every sports fan was asking. Was the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five NBA Draft rig? At first I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a joke, but because I was seeing it everywhere,

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Speaker 1: I stated on Twitter, tell me y'all don't really believe this,

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Speaker 1: and that unleashed hundreds of responses. Mister Yo tweeted, I

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Speaker 1: believe it. I'm not sure what planet you're living on.

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Speaker 1: But there was no chance for the Cleveland Cavaliers to

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Speaker 1: get Lebron James, but they got them. I understand your job,

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Speaker 1: but you can't overlook the obvious. Cooper Flag should be

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Speaker 1: a Utah Jazz or Washington Wizard, but he's not.

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Speaker 2: Why would you wish that on somebody anyway? From slander season?

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Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you believe that this is the NBA we're

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 2: Nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 1: Buffalo God chimed in, there is corruption at every level

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Speaker 1: in society. You don't think they aren't going to rig

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Speaker 1: something like this lots of money at stake.

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Speaker 2: Let me be honest. I don't love conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 1: I believe in skepticism, asking questions and connecting the dots.

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Speaker 1: Some conspiracy theories are fun, like believing Bigfoot exists, or

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Speaker 1: that the fifth digit of everybody's Social Security number indicates

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Speaker 1: their race. They say, all black people the fifth digit

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Speaker 1: of their Social Security number is an even number. And

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Speaker 1: then there's the amusing little conspiracy theory that we're all

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Speaker 1: secretly lizard people.

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Speaker 3: A disturbing number of people, roughly twelve million, according to

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Speaker 3: some sources, strongly believe or think it's possible that the

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Speaker 3: US or even the world is run by extraterrestrial lizard

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Speaker 3: people in disguise.

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Speaker 2: The lizard Illuminati baby.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to the NBA, the amount of

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Speaker 1: people that believe the NBA is rigged, and this is

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Speaker 1: putting it mildly, is truly disturbing. When Dallas landed the

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Speaker 1: number one pick in the draft, people actually believe that

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Speaker 1: this was the NBA's way of doing Dallas a.

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Speaker 2: Solid for trading Luka Doncic to the Los.

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Speaker 1: Angeles Lakers a few months ago, which effectively gave one

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Speaker 1: of their most important franchises and international superstar to replace

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Speaker 1: Lebron James once he goes into retirement. The old you

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Speaker 1: scratched our back, let us give you Cooper flag back

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Speaker 1: in return. But here's why that is absolute bunk. Do

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Speaker 1: you know how much had to go right for the

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Speaker 1: NBA to rig this? Do you know how many people

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Speaker 1: would have had to be involved. Let us not forget

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Speaker 1: that the only reason Dallas was even in the position

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Speaker 1: to get the number one pick is because the Miami

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Speaker 1: Heat won two play in games on the road, which

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Speaker 1: prevented them from getting the right to the eleventh seed

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Speaker 1: and a spot in the draft lottery. Let Us also

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Speaker 1: not forget Dallas had to win a point flip with

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Bulls to even be in the position to

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Speaker 1: win the number one pick. Now, none of this has

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Speaker 1: stopped the conspiracy theorists from going ballistic, especially now that

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Speaker 1: the NBA no longer televises the ping pong balls on

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Speaker 1: live TV, which has been the smoking gun and major

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Speaker 1: proof that the conspiracy theorists believe that something fishy is

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Speaker 1: going on.

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Speaker 2: But even though they don't show it on live TV.

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Speaker 1: Understand there are several people in the room when it happens,

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Speaker 1: including select members of the media, such as ESPN insider

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Speaker 1: Tim Bontemps, who tweeted that he has been in the

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Speaker 1: room when the ping pong balls are drawn.

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Speaker 2: Tim wrote, the draft lottery isn't rigged. I've sat and

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Speaker 2: watched the ping pong balls come out. There's no rigging it.

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Speaker 1: Rather than saying that, I do think a fair thing

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Speaker 1: to wonder is if the new rules have helped or

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Speaker 1: if they've created more problems than they've solved.

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Speaker 2: Today didn't help that.

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Speaker 1: So all those people, including journalists, who could have the

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Speaker 1: scoop of the.

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Speaker 2: Century, are just gonna go along with the fix. Listen.

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Speaker 1: The NBA has tinkered with the draft many times, including

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Speaker 1: most recently in twenty nineteen, which Tim was referring to,

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Speaker 1: and that is the smoking gun that explains so much

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Speaker 1: of what we've seen the last few years in the draft.

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Speaker 1: Blame the Philadelphia seventy six ers for this. Because the

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Speaker 1: seventy six Ers committed to trusting the process or basically

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Speaker 1: blatantly tanking, the NBA decided to step in and try

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Speaker 1: to curb teams from using tanking as a strategy to

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Speaker 1: get better draft positioning. From twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: the Sixers won forty seven games in three seasons, which

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Speaker 1: resulted in them drafting Ben Simmons and Joel and b.

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Speaker 2: No championships, though, so.

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Speaker 1: The NBA decided in twenty nineteen to lower the odds

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Speaker 1: any single team could have at winning the number one pick.

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Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, the year before the NBA made some changes,

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Speaker 1: the worst team in the league had a twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent chance of being awarded the number one pick. A

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Speaker 1: year later, it was down to fourteen percent. Now, since

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Speaker 1: the NBA made that change, the team with the worst

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Speaker 1: record hasn't won the number one pick, and the last

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Speaker 1: three years the team with the worst record.

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Speaker 2: Has actually picked fifth.

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Speaker 1: As a Pistons fan, this is extremely triggering information because

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Speaker 1: the year that Victor Winmbinyana was the prize, the Pistons

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Speaker 1: had the worst record in the league, having won just

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Speaker 1: seventeen games, and they wound up in the fifth spot,

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Speaker 1: where they took Asar Thompson, who has tremendous potential and

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Speaker 1: I absolutely love, but damn Victor Winmbanyana. To quote Whitney Houston,

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Speaker 1: didn't we almost have it all. Another interesting trend since

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Speaker 1: the twenty nineteen changed is that this marks the second

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Speaker 1: straight season that a playing tournament team has won the lottery.

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Speaker 1: Last year it was the Atlanta Hawks who won the lottery,

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Speaker 1: and my Pistons, who won just fourteen games and lost

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Speaker 1: twenty eight in a row, again drafted fifth. Now, despite

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Speaker 1: these facts I presented, many an NBA fan will point

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Speaker 1: to the infamous frozen envelope involving Patrick Ewing in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five draft as definitive proof that the NBA is.

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Speaker 2: Always up to something shady.

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Speaker 1: To refresh your memory, in nineteen eighty five, the NBA

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Speaker 1: was in trouble. There were a number of players on drugs,

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Speaker 1: attendance was down. It was David Stearns's first year as

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Speaker 1: NBA commissioner. This was also the first year of the

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Speaker 1: league moved to a lottery system to determine draft order,

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Speaker 1: and the first time the draft was televised. Here's what

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Speaker 1: the conspiracy theorists say happen. When members of the accounting

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Speaker 1: firm that served as the official tabulator of the draft

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Speaker 1: put the envelopes in a rotating bin that the commissioner

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Speaker 1: would draw from to announce the draft board.

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Speaker 4: As you can see, this is the representative from Erson Winnie.

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Speaker 4: He's the guy who's been tasked with putting the envelopes

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Speaker 4: into the giant circle drum. There's envelope one, two, three.

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Speaker 4: Now let's prosper second. Okay, so this is when this

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Speaker 4: is the envelope four. Number four is the nixt Watch

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Speaker 4: the pause he takes before he puts it in, bangs

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Speaker 4: it against the side right there. The envelope is now

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Speaker 4: all right, here's the head of security okay, giving a

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Speaker 4: little spin stern looking on thinking how am I gonna?

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Speaker 5: Okay? Now, couldn't envelope get bent in this process?

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Speaker 4: Maybe you know? But the fact that it was the

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Speaker 4: fourth one that we saw bang against the drum. Listen

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Speaker 4: to this exhale he gives. Why is he nervous? What's

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Speaker 4: he nervous for? It doesn't matter what happens for him.

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Speaker 5: Okay, but it's his first year as the commissioner.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: So he's like, whatever team I pick out, their franchise

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Speaker 4: will be changed forever. When he sticks his hand and

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Speaker 4: you'll notice he'll take his hands put it on the envelope.

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Speaker 4: He could have picked the one he just touched first,

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Speaker 4: but he flips it over and then picks the one

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Speaker 4: in the bottom of the pile. Some suggest this flip

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Speaker 4: of the envelopes could be Stern searching for the bent envelope,

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Speaker 4: as history would show the envelope Stern chose belonged to

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Speaker 4: the Knicks. However, the most infamous alleged method of the

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Speaker 4: fix doesn't surround the bent envelope, but a frozen envelope.

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Speaker 4: Reports surface that claim the envelope had been placed in

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Speaker 4: a freezer, making it markedly colder and easier for starting

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Speaker 4: to pick.

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Speaker 1: Out, and ever since then, most NBA fans have chosen

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Speaker 1: to believe that when it comes to the draft, if

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Speaker 1: it's too good to be true. It usually is like

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Speaker 1: when Cleveland wound up with the number one pick in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three and drafted Lebron James, who grew

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Speaker 1: up forty minutes from Cleveland. But when the Bulls got

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Speaker 1: the number one pick in two thousand and eight and

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Speaker 1: drafted Derrick Rose, who just so happened to grow up right.

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Speaker 2: There in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm not convinced the NBA can come up with

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Speaker 1: a solution that makes everybody happy. It's not good for

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Speaker 1: the product if teams start racing to the bottom, something

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Speaker 1: the NBA also tried to prevent by creating play in games.

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Speaker 1: I'm also convinced that even if the NBA showed someone

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Speaker 1: making the ping palm balls placing them inside whatever that

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Speaker 1: apparatus is that they used to roll them around in there,

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Speaker 1: NBA fans would just continue to cling to the conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's easier believing that the league is rigged, especially

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Speaker 1: if your team isn't the one directly benefiting. It gives

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Speaker 1: you the clarity that you crave. But often the truth

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Speaker 1: just isn't that sexy. It's more tantalizing to believe that

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Speaker 1: behind closed doors, the Mavericks, the NBA, the owners, the

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Speaker 1: media all came together and decided Dallas, Dallas, of all places,

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Speaker 1: would be given a soft landing after trading a twenty

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Speaker 1: six year old superstar who led the league in scoring

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Speaker 1: during last year's playoffs. If the NBA was into rigging

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Speaker 1: things that benefit the league, how to hell did the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Clippers ever wind up with.

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Speaker 2: The number one pick for all those years? Now? If

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Speaker 2: you believe this year's draft.

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Speaker 1: Was rigged, then I guess you also believed that Bigfoot

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Speaker 1: the Lockness Monster will be teaming up with the Secret

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Speaker 1: Lizard people to take over the Illuminati on this flatter,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approved this message. Today's episode

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Speaker 1: is going to be a great one as I finally

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Speaker 1: get to have a conversation with someone I followed on

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Speaker 1: social media, going back and forth with on social media

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Speaker 1: in a positive way, of course, someone who is admired

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Speaker 1: by so many people or her leadership and straightforward nature.

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Speaker 1: She was once the highest ranking woman in the entire NFL.

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Speaker 1: She worked with one of the most iconic owners in

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Speaker 1: all of professional sports, Al Davis. She currently is chairman

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Speaker 1: of the board by Ice Cubes dazzling three on three league,

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Speaker 1: the Big Three. I can't wait to hear her best

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Speaker 1: Al Davis stories coming up next on Spolitics, Amy Trask, Amy,

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Speaker 1: it is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: especially since we've over the years, I guess, communicated mostly

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Speaker 1: through social media, so to see you sort of face

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Speaker 1: to face or through a screen is really wonderful. But

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start this podcast by asking you a

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Speaker 1: question that I ask every guest that appears on Spolitics,

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Speaker 1: and that is named an athlete or a moment that

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Speaker 1: made you love sports.

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Speaker 5: Before I do that, I just want to tell you

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Speaker 5: what an honor it is to join you on your podcast, Jamel,

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Speaker 5: I have been a frien of yours since I first

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Speaker 5: saw you on television. I've been following you ever since.

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Speaker 5: And if I seem to those who watch listen to

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Speaker 5: your podcast a bit geeked out, is because I am.

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Speaker 5: I am being very dorky right now. I have been

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Speaker 5: since you invited me to join you. I feel like

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Speaker 5: I've been invited to hang out with the cool kids,

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Speaker 5: which by the way, I never ever was as I

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Speaker 5: was growing up. So this is a big deal for me.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. It's an honor. I'm a

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Speaker 5: huge fan of yours. As to your question, you do

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Speaker 5: know that you have as a guest right now on

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Speaker 5: your podcast someone who went to law school. I do,

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Speaker 5: so I'm going to mount an objection and say, objection

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Speaker 5: your honor. Paul's for speculation, Paul's for a hypothetical. I'm

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Speaker 5: going to mount every objection I can because I can't

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Speaker 5: think of one particular moment that made me a sports fan.

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Speaker 5: You asked about a special player, perhaps the most special

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Speaker 5: moment and most special moment involving a player in my

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Speaker 5: career was Gene Upshot and I had joined the Raiders

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Speaker 5: and only been with the Raiders a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 5: and I was on the sideline at practice entertaining a

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Speaker 5: number of our business partners, our sponsors, are you know,

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Speaker 5: just our anchors, our business partners, and one member of

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Speaker 5: the media was towards the end of practice, so the

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Speaker 5: press had been let back in. Yells out in a

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Speaker 5: voice clearly intended for everyone here. Hey, Gene, what's it

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Speaker 5: like having a girl worked for the Raiders? And in

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Speaker 5: his booming, booming voice, Jane said, She's not a girl,

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Speaker 5: She's a Raider. I still get goosebumps when I think

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Speaker 5: about that. So I'm giving that to you as my

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Speaker 5: favorite sports moment, even though it was personal, and you

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Speaker 5: know when.

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Speaker 1: I was a grown up, Well, no, I mean kind,

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Speaker 1: that still fits the correcteria. I'll allow it as the

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Speaker 1: thank you your honor they may say in a court room. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but nevertheless, though football has been a lifelong passion, passion

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Speaker 1: of yours.

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Speaker 2: So what was it that ru you to the game

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Speaker 2: of football?

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Speaker 5: I went to my first football game in person, when

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Speaker 5: I was in junior high. It was a junior high

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Speaker 5: school game, and I fell in love with the game

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Speaker 5: immediately because you know, yes, there the players are big

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Speaker 5: and strong and fast, but it's also a very cerebral game.

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Speaker 5: It's a game of matchups. Can your pass protection defeat

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Speaker 5: my pass rush? Can your corners keep up with my receivers.

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Speaker 5: It's really a game of chess, and it's a game

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Speaker 5: of chess with large, fast, strong chess pieces. So I

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Speaker 5: fell in love with the game when I was in

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Speaker 5: junior high and then became a Raider fan when I

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Speaker 5: was at school just up the road from them in Berkeley.

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Speaker 1: Now, you started your multi decade career with the Raiders

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Speaker 1: as an intern, So how did you get this internship?

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Speaker 5: So I'm sitting in grad school. There are couches in

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Speaker 5: the front, and I'm sitting there on a first year

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Speaker 5: and I'm listening to the second year students talk about

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Speaker 5: these things called internships and externships. I had never even

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Speaker 5: heard the word externship before, but I'm listening to them,

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Speaker 5: and I thought that sounds kind of fun. And I

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Speaker 5: picked up the phone and I called the Raiders, who

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Speaker 5: had just re located from Oakland to Los Angeles. The

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Speaker 5: same year, I moved back from Berkeley home to Los

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Speaker 5: Angeles to go to grad school. The Raiders had actually

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Speaker 5: tried to move a couple of years earlier, but been

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Speaker 5: ordered back by court order. And then, as as circumstances

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Speaker 5: would have it, I moved home to LA. The Raiders

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Speaker 5: come to La. I'm listening to these people talk about internships.

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Speaker 5: So I picked up the phone and I called the

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Speaker 5: Raiders and said I'd like to be an intern. And

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Speaker 5: the woman who answered the phone, because yes, kids, we

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Speaker 5: had landlines and receptionists, and she answered the phone and

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Speaker 5: patched me through to al Locusel and if you remember him, Janelle,

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Speaker 5: But she patched me through to al Locasel and I said,

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Speaker 5: I'd like to be an intern. And he said, well,

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Speaker 5: what's an intern? What's that? And I said, well, I'll

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Speaker 5: work for you and you won't pay me, because back

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Speaker 5: in those days, interns weren't paid. And he said, come

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Speaker 5: on down. And that's how I started my career.

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Speaker 2: Nobody is hard.

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Speaker 1: Free labor is hard to resist, right, Okay, So once

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Speaker 1: you started working with, you know, the Raiders, what did

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Speaker 1: you feel like your sort of ceiling was there, like

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Speaker 1: did you come in there with the intention of like,

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Speaker 1: this is the organization I want to stick with, or

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Speaker 1: were you just thinking this is just how I build

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Speaker 1: my football career.

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Speaker 5: I was so thrilled to be part of the organization,

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Speaker 5: to be part of the team, part of a team

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Speaker 5: that I had fallen in love with. When I was

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Speaker 5: at CAL, I would have done anything. I did do anything.

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Speaker 5: I didn't care what my responsibilities were. I didn't care

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Speaker 5: what my role was. I just wanted to contribute. If

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Speaker 5: my job had been to pick up the scrunched up

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Speaker 5: gatorade cups on the sideline, well then I would have

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Speaker 5: been the best scrunch pick a upper there was. I

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Speaker 5: did have responsibilities that were primary in nature. But even

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Speaker 5: when I was intern and through the time I left,

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Speaker 5: when I was you know, named at some point a CEO.

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Speaker 5: You know, if the phone lines were busy in the

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Speaker 5: ticket off, I'd go down and I'd answer phones. I

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Speaker 5: would alphabetize will call envelopes, I would do I would

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Speaker 5: stuff will call envelopes. I wanted to contribute in any

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Speaker 5: way I could as a teammate and be part of

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Speaker 5: the team. It didn't matter to me what the role was.

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Speaker 1: Now you of course, became the first woman to be

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Speaker 1: CEO of a NFL team when you were with the Raiders.

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Speaker 1: As you think about you having that distinction, now, what

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Speaker 1: does what does it mean to you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I don't think about that a lot. I'm often asked

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Speaker 5: what it feels like to be the first, and I

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Speaker 5: never I never reflected on that when Al named me CEO.

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Speaker 5: It's not something I think about often. But if it

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Speaker 5: helps any little girl looking at that thinking oh wow, well,

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Speaker 5: then that's a really cool thing. But it's not something

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Speaker 5: I have spent time reflecting upon thinking about, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: You have said before, you said it in a previous

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Speaker 1: interview that your gender is only an issue if you

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Speaker 1: make it an issue.

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Speaker 2: What did you mean by that?

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Speaker 5: And I'm speaking for myself only? What worked for me. Look,

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Speaker 5: when I the best advice I've ever received in my

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Speaker 5: whole life was from my mom. She told me, when

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Speaker 5: I was a little idybity girl, to thine own self,

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Speaker 5: be true, and as moms can do, she repeated it

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Speaker 5: over and over and over, and as girls can do.

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Speaker 5: I rolled my eyes when she did. But the fact

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Speaker 5: is it's the best advice I've ever received, and the

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Speaker 5: reason I share. That is, I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 5: what worked for me doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

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Speaker 5: I didn't spend any time thinking about my gender. My

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Speaker 5: view was that if I wanted to walk into a meeting,

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Speaker 5: a locker room meeting, a coaching meeting, an NFL owners meeting,

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Speaker 5: a municipal meeting, a meeting with our bankers, any meeting

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Speaker 5: at all, and I didn't want anyone thinking about my gender.

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Speaker 5: It didn't make sense for me to be thinking about

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Speaker 5: my gender. And by the way, if someone else wanted

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Speaker 5: to worry about my gender, waste your time, because I'm

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Speaker 5: not wasting my time. I'm going to that meeting. I'm

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Speaker 5: doing my job. I'm cowoording myself in the manner I

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Speaker 5: think is best to get my job done as best

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Speaker 5: I can. Someone else wants to worry about the fact

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Speaker 5: that I'm a woman, go ahead and worry about it.

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Speaker 5: I'm not wasting my time.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: But nevertheless, though it was by NFL standards, it was

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Speaker 1: definitely considered a rarity, if not an oddity, to have

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Speaker 1: a woman in the position that you were in. So

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Speaker 1: as you're in these high level meetings, as you mentioned

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Speaker 1: with NFL owners, how did you feel like they received

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Speaker 1: you well.

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Speaker 5: The first owners meeting I went to well, and I

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Speaker 5: was the only woman in that owner's meeting for a

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Speaker 5: lot of years. At the first owners meeting, I went to, look,

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Speaker 5: you know, there's the big march meeting, which is seven

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Speaker 5: eight people a club. But the business gets done at

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Speaker 5: what are called one per club and two per club meetings.

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Speaker 5: And the first meeting I went to was a two

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Speaker 5: per club meeting, and the league has set up in

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Speaker 5: the back of the room before the meeting starts, coffee breakfast.

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Speaker 5: You can mill about, and then you take your seat

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Speaker 5: for the meeting. So here I am at my first

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Speaker 5: meeting and the owner of a team walks up to

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Speaker 5: me and asks me to get the coffee. And I

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Speaker 5: looked around and I realized, oh, I'm the only woman

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Speaker 5: in the room. That's not I'm on catering staff. And

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Speaker 5: I had to quickly decide how to proceed. I've been

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Speaker 5: criticized by a lot of people for how I did this.

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Speaker 5: They've told me you should have yelled at him, you

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Speaker 5: should have given him what for. But I handled it

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Speaker 5: in the manner that was to thine own self be true,

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Speaker 5: and it was effective. I smiled and I said, how

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Speaker 5: do you take your coffee? I knew that the meeting

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Speaker 5: would be starting within about ten minutes or so, and

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Speaker 5: we would walk into that meeting and he would see

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Speaker 5: me sit down in the meeting room. So I decided

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Speaker 5: to have some fun and asked him how he took

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Speaker 5: his coffee? Got in his coffee. The meeting started a

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Speaker 5: couple of minutes later, we walked to our tables, and

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Speaker 5: as luck or Happenstace would have it, the seats where

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Speaker 5: we were were immediately across, like as close as can

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Speaker 5: be to the seat where he was. Well, this team owner,

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Speaker 5: who I had never named and never will, sees me

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Speaker 5: take a seat in the meeting, and Jamel I could

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Speaker 5: see the blood draining from his face, and I just

395
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Speaker 5: started laughing, and he started laughing, And from and that

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Speaker 5: point forward he offered me his support and his encouragement

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Speaker 5: and helped me in any way he could throughout my

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Speaker 5: career and every single owners meeting thereafter, he asked me

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Speaker 5: how I would take my life.

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Speaker 2: So became a good running joke between the two.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it did.

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Speaker 1: I guess when you think about a instance like that,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you think this? And I get it?

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Speaker 1: That you're not saying that all women should do this,

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Speaker 1: but you think it was more beneficial to you that

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Speaker 1: you didn't sort of make a big deal of it

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Speaker 1: and like sort of call him out and say, like,

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Speaker 1: you do realize that I'm on your level.

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Speaker 5: I thought, you know what, I decided to have fun

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Speaker 5: with it. I decided, you know what, I'm going to

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Speaker 5: have fun with it. I don't know what. I've never

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Speaker 5: met this man, I don't know what he's like. I

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Speaker 5: think this is hilarious what I'm about to do. He

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Speaker 5: may not think it's funny. I don't really care.

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Speaker 2: But I just.

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Speaker 5: Decided to handle it in the manner that felt right

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Speaker 5: to me and do it in sort of a oh, okay,

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Speaker 5: I'll get your coffee, and when you see me walking

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Speaker 5: into that room and sitting down, and see how you respond.

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Speaker 5: And he responded beautifully, and, as I said, from that

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Speaker 5: point forward, was a huge advocate of mine.

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Speaker 1: I know, in a way, this is kind of almost

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Speaker 1: too broad of a question given the person I'm talking about,

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Speaker 1: but Al Davis was one of the most infamous figures

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Speaker 1: in NFL history, an icon in his own right for sure.

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Speaker 1: What was it give us an idea of what it

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Speaker 1: was like working for him, working with him, like, what

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Speaker 1: was he actually like?

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Speaker 5: Well, the biggest miss I can answer that most specifically

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Speaker 5: initially by saying, the biggest misconception about ol is that

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Speaker 5: he wouldn't tolerate disagreement, or he wouldn't tolerate anyone who

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Speaker 5: disagreed with him. There seems to be this lore, this

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Speaker 5: urban legend, if you will, but nobody could disagree without

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Speaker 5: let me tell you something, jail. If that were true,

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Speaker 5: I'd have been fired. About two weeks into my job,

436
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 5: he walked into a ring where I was sitting with

437
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 5: a coworker. He ripped into this guy like I can

438
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 5: only imagine a velociraptor would rip in the flesh. And

439
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 5: I realized, after about you know a number of minutes,

440
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 5: maybe five ten minutes, he was wrong. So he was

441
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 5: talking loudly, and I said, in a loud voice, because

442
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,919
Speaker 5: I have a loud voice, and he was talking loudly,

443
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 5: excuse me, you're wrong. And I will never forget the

444
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 5: look on his face when his head turned towards me.

445
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 5: It was like Linda Blair and the exorcistm only there

446
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 5: was no green stuff coming out. And he looked at me,

447
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 5: and I said, look, you're wrong. If you were basing

448
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 5: your conclusion on accurate data. Accurate information, fair enough, good conclusion.

449
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 5: But you are basing your conclusion on inaccurate data. Well, Jamel,

450
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 5: we went back and forth, back and forth, with very

451
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 5: raised voices, not screaming, but a heated discussion. I learned

452
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 5: later that like a ton of people on staff lined

453
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 5: up outside the office because they were listening. One woman

454
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 5: even brought a box because she figured, all right, this

455
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 5: girl's mom. Well, after about twenty minutes or so, he says, oh, okay,

456
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 5: I got chack, I got it, and we went on

457
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 5: to have a great discussion. I disagreed with him over

458
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 5: the almost thirty years I worked for him more than

459
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 5: I agreed with him. And you know, I think that

460
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 5: first argument probably set up the basis for our relationship.

461
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 5: So that's the biggest misconception about him. And you know,

462
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 5: I would be wrong if I didn't note that. Of course,

463
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 5: I owe my career to the fact that he hired

464
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 5: without regard to race or gender, or ethnicity or any individuality,

465
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 5: which has no bearing whatsoever on whether one can do

466
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 5: a job. And he was doing that decades before. This

467
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 5: was a topic of discussion. I mean, when you think

468
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 5: about it, I became an intern in nineteen eighty three.

469
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 5: That was I don't even want to count how many

470
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 5: years that was, Yeah, please don't anyone count. And then

471
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 5: I joined the Raiders full time shortly thereafter. These conversations

472
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 5: that we're now having, which are important conversations, they weren't

473
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 5: conversations in the NFL or in many places, if anywhere,

474
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 5: back then. So you know, people there are people who

475
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 5: loved now people who couldn't stay. But if we're all

476
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 5: being intellectually honest, this is a man who hired in

477
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 5: the manner we should hire.

478
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's an interesting observation that you make, because you know,

479
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: obviously again you were the first female CEO of a

480
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: NFL team. He hired the first black coach in the

481
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: modern NFL, and art shall you know, even though he

482
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: didn't hire with regard to race, or gender or ethnicity,

483
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: the fact is the Raiders were a bit ahead a

484
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: lot of times than other NFL teams. Why do you

485
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: think that was part of the DNA of the organization.

486
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 5: Well, and I may have stated that poorly when I

487
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 5: said he hired without regard to those things, I should

488
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 5: have not said it, maybe in a double negative way.

489
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 5: He hired in the manner I believe one should hire

490
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 5: those individualities have no bearing on whether one can do

491
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 5: a job. And he evaluated people without regard to those individualities.

492
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 5: He hired the people he wanted to hire, and that

493
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 5: set the tone the organization. He set the tone for

494
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 5: the organization.

495
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: What would you say is the biggest disagreement that you

496
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: and Al Davis had?

497
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 5: But you know what, we could fill up four hundred

498
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 5: bazillion team million tea of your podcasts with disagreements.

499
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe the most memorable. I don't know. I don't

500
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: know memorable or biggest, I don't know. I'm not sure.

501
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 5: Well, okay, correct verb. We were negotiating a deal. I

502
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 5: was handling the negotiations of a deal, and it was

503
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 5: existential in nature to the team. And you know, if

504
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 5: I didn't complete this deal, you know, I don't know

505
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 5: that the team, well, the team would continue to exist obviously,

506
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 5: but not necessarily under the ownership that was there at

507
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 5: the time. And I was negotiating it in a manner.

508
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 5: Al was getting very very frustrated. We were both so tense,

509
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 5: we were our tension was as high as it ever was,

510
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 5: and he was snapping at me, and I was snapping

511
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 5: at him, and he didn't like the manner in which

512
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 5: I was handling the negotiation. He thought, you know, he

513
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: at one point said you have to be like cruse

514
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 5: Chev and hit the table and say yet, yet, yet.

515
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 5: And I looked at him and I'm like, well, that

516
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 5: didn't work out so well for Khrushow, did it. I

517
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 5: think it was cruse Ship. Yeah it was. But we

518
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 5: were arguing about how I was handling the negotiation and

519
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 5: why it wasn't getting done. Well, eventually it did get done,

520
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 5: and at the time it was the highest value ever

521
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 5: for what I was able to negotiate. So notwithstanding that,

522
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 5: we were disagreeing and arguing throughout the negotiations. Oh and

523
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 5: then at one point he spit out at me, you

524
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 5: negotiate like a girl. Well I didn't take offense, because look,

525
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 5: I'm the girly higher I'm the girly named CEO, so

526
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 5: I knew. I didn't care that I was a girl.

527
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 5: But he spit out, you negotiate like a girl, and

528
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 5: I walked out of the room. Well, when I got

529
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 5: the deal done and I brought the documents in for

530
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 5: him to sign it, dropped him on his table and

531
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 5: said like a girl and handed him a pen. That

532
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 5: was a pretty big one.

533
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess hits why that's the title of your book, right.

534
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 5: Like a girl.

535
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you spend all this time with the Raiders,

536
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: and then you made the decision to resign Mark at

537
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: this point, had sone had taken over the team.

538
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: You know, is it.

539
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: Accurate to say that part of the reason you resigned

540
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: is because you were not going to be able to

541
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: continue in the same role or what was sort of

542
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: the backstory behind your resignation.

543
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 5: Took me a year to make the decision. That's it was.

544
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 5: And look, I recognize how fortunate I am in life

545
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 5: when I say to you, it's the hardest decision I've

546
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 5: ever had to make in my life. And it took

547
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 5: a year. I was like Hamlet to be or not

548
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 5: to be. I just I couldn't. It took me a

549
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 5: long time to make the decision. And there really was

550
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 5: no one reason. It just felt right to me. I

551
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 5: can't put a finger on one reason. I just felt.

552
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 5: You know, I've been here almost thirty years if you

553
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: count my internship. This is a transition for the team.

554
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: I'm ready to make a transition. And then I woke

555
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 5: up and I said to my husband, as I'm making,

556
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 5: you know, this whole decision over a year, I'm not

557
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 5: going to be able to decide what I do next

558
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 5: until I make this decision. So I gave notice. And

559
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 5: the next morning I woke up and I looked at

560
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 5: my husband and I said, I'm a blight on humanity.

561
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 5: I have nothing to do. And we laughed and he's like, well,

562
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 5: you work for Al for almost thirty years, why don't

563
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 5: you take a breath. But it was the hardest decision

564
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 5: I've ever made, but it was the right And you know,

565
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 5: when you make a decision like that, you don't know

566
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 5: if it's going to be the right decision or you're

567
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 5: going to regret it. And it was the right decision.

568
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: I mean, what would you ultimately say was the biggest

569
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: lesson that you learned being with the Raiders that are

570
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: maybe even personally from Al Davis?

571
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 5: You know, again, I'll just harp on the fact that

572
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 5: I was there for almost three decades, and so I

573
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 5: grew up. Not only did I grow up on the job,

574
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 5: I grew up period. I just grew up there. So

575
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 5: There were a lot of lessons that I learned to

576
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 5: thine own self be true, held very very true. Standing

577
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 5: up for the courage of your convictions, even when you

578
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 5: are the only one in the room taking a position.

579
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 5: All did that in league owners meetings. You know, he

580
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 5: often took a position that every other owner was against,

581
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 5: but if he believed in it, he stood up for

582
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 5: the courage of his convictions. I also learned that everyone

583
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 5: should lead in the style they believe is right for them.

584
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 5: Don't try to be something or be someone you're not.

585
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 5: Be yourself.

586
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: Now.

587
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: Unfortunately the Raiders, and I say unfortunately because I'm looking

588
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: at what has happened to Oakland as the city. They

589
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: don't have any major professional sports teams anymore. The A's

590
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: are gone. The Raiders moved to Las Vegas, which still

591
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: feels wholly unnatural to me. But you know, seeing what

592
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: has become of Oakland, because I know that was like

593
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: kind of one of the task things you were tasked

594
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: with is figuring out a way to have them stay there.

595
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: You know, when they moved to Las Vegas, as somebody

596
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: who was at inside the organization and was working very

597
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: hard to keep the team in Oakland.

598
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: How did you view that move.

599
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: Two ways and they're not mutually exclusive. For the fans

600
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 5: in Oakland and the Bay Area who were heartbroken, my

601
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 5: heart was broken. I know their passion, I know how

602
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 5: deeply they cared, and my heart was broken for them.

603
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 5: But to all the fans who were traveling to Oakland

604
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: from elsewhere and now would simply travel to Las Vegas

605
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 5: instead of Oakland or to the Bay Area fans who

606
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 5: travel with the team to Las Vegas, they have a magnificent,

607
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 5: magnificent stadium. And for those fans that are happy, I'm happy.

608
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 5: So I'm both heartbroken for the fans who are heartbroken

609
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 5: and happy for the fans who are enjoying a magnificent stadium.

610
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 5: And Jameel, as to your point about Oakland, You're absolutely right,

611
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 5: and it's both maddening and saddening. I don't even know

612
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 5: if sad thing it's a word, but it makes me

613
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 5: both mad and sad. The Warriors are still in the

614
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 5: region but not and you mentioned the A's, you mentioned

615
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 5: the Raiders. At some point, Oakland just has to look

616
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 5: at itself and say, okay, we're all for three, what

617
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 5: are we doing wrong? And I've yet to see Oakland

618
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 5: accept any responsibility for that.

619
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: You're looking at the Raiders as an organization. The Raiders

620
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: haven't been to our super Bowl since two thousand and two,

621
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: and since then, I mean, we're you know, we're going

622
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: obviously on twenty plus years, they've only been to the

623
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: playoffs twice. I guess I don't want to ask the

624
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: broad question of like what is going on? But in

625
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: a way, it's kind of like what is going on?

626
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: Because I think, you know, given the Raiders history, it

627
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: just seems like there's been a long suffering, you know, status.

628
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: So how I mean, how confident are you that they

629
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: can kind of reinvigorate themselves as a franchise.

630
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 5: I think they made some really good decisions this year.

631
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 5: I love the addition of Pete Carroll. I think some

632
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 5: of the decisions at head coaching, and maybe I'll say

633
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 5: it more directly, perhaps more bluntly, some of the prior

634
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 5: head coaches or not in my mind capable or should

635
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 5: have been head coaches. I think the hiring of Pete

636
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 5: Carroll is terrific. I think he's going to make a tremendous,

637
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 5: tremendous difference for that organization they have now in the

638
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: role of head coach, an adult grown up in the room,

639
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 5: so to speak, and Pete is far, far more than that.

640
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 5: Not only is he a terrific head coach, he's a

641
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 5: terrific person. I like the addition of Gina Smith. I've

642
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 5: been rooting and cheering for Gino for a long time.

643
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 5: I thought he was treated poorly or had a poor

644
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 5: situation in his first step. I was cheering for him

645
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 5: while he was in Seattle. I'd love to see Gino

646
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 5: continue to do well. I think he's a big addition.

647
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 5: I love the drafting of Action genty And I was asked,

648
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 5: you know, I got so much crap for that, people

649
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 5: saying I mean when I said on air that I

650
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 5: hope they drafted him, Amy, why would you ever draft

651
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 5: or running back in the top ten? And I answer

652
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 5: this way, I have two words for you, Marcus Allen,

653
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 5: So I love you, know, I just I think the

654
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 5: team looks to be headed in the right direction.

655
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: And what do you think about the fact that Tom

656
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: Brady is a minority owner in the Raiders.

657
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 5: I take no issue whatsoever with Tom. You know, people

658
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 5: assume that because of the tuck rule game, I don't

659
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 5: like Tom issues. Let me tell you, And I know

660
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 5: you knew that know this, so let me tell you.

661
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 5: It's just sort of perfunctory. Tom Brady did in that

662
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 5: instance what every fan of every team wants his or

663
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 5: horror quarterback to do in that situation. Doesn't matter what

664
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 5: your team is, doesn't matter who your quarterback is. If

665
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 5: your team is in that situation, you want your quarterback

666
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 5: to do what Tom Brady did. Now, Tom, no issue whatsoever.

667
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 5: I hope he can be good and help the organization

668
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 5: in terms of work ethic and otherwise. You know, he

669
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 5: does bring someone with him to the organization that I

670
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 5: think Mark needs to be a little bit leery of.

671
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 5: But that's not Tom. That is not Tom.

672
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: Do you buy the Raider fan conspiracy theory that that

673
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: tuck rule was in retaliation against the Raiders, because.

674
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: I don't, you don't know, I don't.

675
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 5: I used to cite to out all the time Handlan's razor.

676
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 5: Never attribute to mendacity that which you can attribute to incompetence,

677
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 5: and so all the time something would happen, and now

678
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 5: you know they're out to get us. Now it's not mendacious.

679
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 5: It just it was wrong. It was stupid, It was incompetent.

680
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 5: I cited Handlan's razor to him unpteen times over the years.

681
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 5: I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Do I believe it was

682
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 5: the wrong call? Of course, I believe it was the

683
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 5: wrong call. Do I believe it was retribution for something? No?

684
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 2: I don't you said that.

685
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: You really thought that the Raiders taking Ashton genty was

686
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: a great move for the organization. Nevertheless, as we all know,

687
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: the story of the NFL draft was the precipitous fall

688
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: of Shador Sanders. What did you, as somebody who's been

689
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: a front office executive in the NFL, what did you make?

690
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 2: What did you make of his fall?

691
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 5: I was not surprised he didn't go in the first

692
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 5: or second round. I started to become surprised as he

693
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 5: continued to fall, and then I stopped myself from being surprised.

694
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 5: And here's why I always use the expression the march

695
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 5: of the lemmings. Those little animals that get in line,

696
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 5: and those little lemmings march behind one another. And this

697
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 5: is an expression I used during my years in the

698
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 5: league and since to describe team behavior, whether it's GM

699
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 5: behavior or organizational behavior. Teams. I shouldn't say all teams.

700
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 5: Al certainly wasn't hesitant, but many teams are hesitant to

701
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 5: step out of that line and do something that others

702
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 5: in front of them aren't doing, for fear of the

703
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 5: criticism it might evote, for fear of you know, what's

704
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 5: going to happen if I'm the lemming that stops out,

705
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 5: steps out of this march of the lemmings. There really

706
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 5: is you know, there's that mental there's that expression group think.

707
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 5: I hate the expression because I don't think group think

708
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 5: is think at all. So when he started to fall

709
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 5: and fall and fall, I thought, oh, we're seeing the

710
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 5: NFL do what it does. In many instances. No one

711
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 5: wants to veer out of that line and take a

712
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 5: chance when others in front of them haven't. So I

713
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 5: wasn't surprised he dropped out of one and two. I

714
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 5: started to be surprised, and then I stopped myself and said, aym,

715
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 5: you're just seeing your march of the lemmings again.

716
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: So you think there was a level of.

717
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if fear is the right word, but

718
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: that you think teams are sitting there and saying, well,

719
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: why isn't anybody else drafted him like and.

720
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: So they did. I do think there's yeah, yeah, I.

721
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 5: Think that's you just said it far more articulately and

722
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 5: cleanly and clearly than I did, Which is, if you're

723
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 5: sitting there and he's available in three, and he's available

724
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 5: in four, or he's available in five before he went

725
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 5: in five, and you're the GM thinking well if I

726
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 5: take him, you know, am I subjecting myself to criticism?

727
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 5: And why is no one in front of me taking him?

728
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 5: Should I be the one who steps out of line

729
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 5: and take him? I do think there's a lot of

730
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 5: that group think mentality.

731
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, Because I know a lot of people

732
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: have sort of intimated that this was like NFL collusion,

733
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: that all the teams got together.

734
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't think it.

735
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: I don't think they are bold enough to have colluded

736
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: together to say really, And I'll.

737
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 5: Go again to Hanlin's razor, never attribute to mendacity that

738
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 5: which you can explain by and some people say in

739
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 5: competence or stupidity. In this case, I'll say, never attribute

740
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 5: to mendacity that which can be explained by not wanting

741
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 5: to step out of that march of the lemons. I

742
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 5: don't think it was collusion.

743
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: So you have given me mendacity. You've given me lemons

744
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: I mean, and I tell you your breath and your

745
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: breath and range will never cease to impress me for sure.

746
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 1: But there's a lot more NFL related stuff that I'd

747
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: love to get to you and talk to you about.

748
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: But we're gonna just take a very quick break and

749
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more with Amy tracks. Before

750
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: we took the break, we were talking about Shador Sanders.

751
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: There's some other NFL related topics I'd love to get

752
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: your thoughts on. Looking at the NFL now where they

753
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: have taken over Christmas Day, I'm sure the NBA loves

754
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 1: that we got a Black Friday game. Now there would

755
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: be more games overseas. When you look at how this

756
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: league is expanding, do you think that it could ever

757
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: reach a point of oversaturation.

758
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 5: I don't know the answer to that question, but at

759
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 5: this point, if you were to ask me to predict

760
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 5: if that happens in the near future, my answer is no.

761
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 5: People tune in, people attend people by merchandise, people love

762
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 5: their teams. We haven't seen, at least to my knowledge,

763
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 5: any waning of interest as the number of games has increased,

764
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 5: and by the way, we may see it go from

765
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 5: seventeen to eighteen. Look, I started in the league when

766
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 5: they warrant even thirty two teams, So I've seen the

767
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 5: league expand both in terms of number of teams, number

768
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 5: of games, international games, and yet the fans are here.

769
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 5: So the answer to your question is, you know, maybe

770
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 5: maybe down the line. I don't see it happening in

771
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 5: the foreseeable future.

772
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: Well, what do you make in general of the NFL

773
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: strategy here, because you know, now we have games on Peacock,

774
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: they feel very spread out, right, And I'll tell you

775
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: my Bowl prediction. I eventually they're going to pay per

776
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: view the Super Bowl. I'm not like, I totally could

777
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: see this happening, and by pay per view, Wow, I

778
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: think I could. I could see a scenario easily, especially

779
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: once they proved by having the moving games to Peacock

780
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: where people had to get subscriptions to go. I was like,

781
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: once they did that, I was like, and moving it

782
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: to Netflix, So if you want to watch the NFL,

783
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: you got to get a Netflix subscription. I realized that

784
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: Netflix has hundreds of millions of people, but this is

785
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: about adding more. I was like, I would not be

786
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: surprised if we got to a point where they would

787
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: really legitimately thinking about putting the Super Bowl on streaming,

788
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: putting it in some kind.

789
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: Of pay per view type of format.

790
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised about this because of what

791
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: you said is like we get you know, in this

792
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: attention economy, the NFL is able to gather people's attention

793
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: in a way that pretty much nothing else can, and

794
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: so because of that, I think it gives them a

795
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: tremendous advantage in the marketplace. And at this point, the fans,

796
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: no matter how much they bitched about having to get

797
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: Peacock to watch the game, they still got pigoc So

798
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: it's like knowing that, I was like, eventually, it feels

799
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 1: like the NFL is going to continue to push these

800
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: scenarios where people have to pay more money to watch

801
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: the NFL.

802
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 5: I agree with that comment. I would be stunned, but

803
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 5: you know what, lots of things happen that stunned me.

804
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 5: But I would be stunned if they do that with

805
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 5: the super Bowl. And if they do that with the

806
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 5: Super Bowl, someone needs to make sure that you are

807
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 5: on record as the person who predicted that, and then

808
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 5: you need to get a crystal ball and tell us

809
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 5: what's going to happen in the rest of the world.

810
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 5: I just it would stun the hell out of me

811
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 5: if they do that with the Super Bowl. But as

812
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 5: I said, I've been stunned a lot in life.

813
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: You brought up something that has been at least among

814
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: the players. There's been a lot of pushback from them,

815
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: and that's the NFL adding another game, going to eighteen games.

816
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: Do you feel like the addition of eighteen games or

817
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: an eighteenth game, I should say that that's more of

818
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: a win and not an if.

819
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 5: I do think it's a when, not an if. But

820
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 5: I also think, and if you're listening to me, NFLPA,

821
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 5: negotiate the hell out of this. That is not something

822
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 5: that the NFLPA should blithely agree to or agree to

823
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 5: without exacting some concessions that are very, very important. In

824
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,479
Speaker 5: other words, it's you know, the league wants an eighteenth game,

825
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 5: fair enough, and I've spoken with players who are keen

826
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 5: on an eighteenth game because it's more revenues, and revenue

827
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 5: is share. But if that is something the league wants

828
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 5: as much as it appears in as much as I'm

829
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 5: aware that they want it, the NFLPA should say okay,

830
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 5: now let's talk about what we need for the players.

831
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: You know.

832
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: Looking at sort of the NFL's future and the things

833
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: that they want to do, it feels like that there

834
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: is some level of push in the league to have

835
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: a NFL team that is based overseas. How likely do

836
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: you see this happening, because there's been always been rumors that,

837
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: for example, the Jaguars then maybe relocating to London, Like,

838
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: how even likely is that in your mind?

839
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 5: Well, I'm going to now become the amy. I was

840
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 5: in the league meetings when these discussions would occur, and

841
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 5: I'd say, hey, hi, just so you know, California, we're

842
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 5: on the other coast. And it used to drive me

843
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 5: nuts how people would talk about, well, you know, it's

844
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 5: an easy flight for the teams, and then they would

845
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 5: name every team on the Eastern seaboard to get over

846
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 5: to London. It's no longer to get to London for

847
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 5: the Giants, and it is to get wait a minute,

848
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 5: wait a minute, it's a different trip from California. So yeah,

849
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 5: and yes, I'm going on my I defend California at

850
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 5: all times. Rant if that happens Jamil. There's going to

851
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 5: have to be a lot of paradigm shifts in scheduling

852
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 5: because you cannot expect a California team, or even a

853
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 5: West Coast team, whether it's California or Vegas or you know, Washington.

854
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 5: I should either name a state or a city, but Washington, California, Nevada,

855
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 5: Colorado to fly over to London and people would say, well, am,

856
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 5: you could have your buy the next week. Well okay,

857
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 5: but teams get buys anyway. So now all you're doing

858
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 5: is diminishing those teams by weeks if they put a

859
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 5: team in Oh and by the way, here's the other

860
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 5: issue that I think is a big issue. So now

861
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 5: you're based in London, Okay, you want to try out

862
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 5: some free agents. Are you flying free agents from all

863
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 5: over the country to London to try out? Maybe you'll

864
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 5: have a base ops in the United States and you'll

865
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 5: try them out there, But then your gam won't there,

866
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: so maybe he'll zoom in and watch it by zoom.

867
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 5: There are answers to all of these things, but those

868
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 5: answers have to be figured out before they do it.

869
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 5: Can you put a team in London? Absolutely? If you're

870
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 5: going to put one. Should you put more than one?

871
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 5: I think maybe you put at least two so there's

872
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 5: not just one over there, and you can then have

873
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 5: teams go over for two weeks at a time. There

874
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 5: are solutions to all of these issues, but you better

875
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 5: find the solutions before you do it.

876
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: In general, how do you feel about the NFL continue

877
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: youing to broaden its sort of international you know reach

878
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: we have games in Mexico City, it is going to

879
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: be in London. I feel like there's a game in

880
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: another country that I'm totally blanking on right now.

881
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 5: But the Brazil's want Brazil's one, and Brazil is one.

882
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 5: You're a Germany's one, and I love it. I will

883
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 5: go down to my last day maintaining that sports has

884
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 5: the power to unite. Sports has the power to bring

885
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 5: together people who might otherwise not believe they have anything

886
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 5: in common. And if by placing games around the world

887
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 5: in any sport helps make the world a little closer,

888
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 5: a little friendlier, makes people realize that, hey, I didn't

889
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 5: think I had anything in common with someone from that

890
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 5: country or that country or that country, but we all

891
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 5: do have this in common, and maybe that helps people

892
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 5: believe that we have other things in common as well,

893
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 5: So you know, I'm I'm going to be a hopeless optimist.

894
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 5: Not hopeless, I'll just be an optimist in that regard.

895
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: As you look around the league, now there are women

896
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: in front office positions. You know, there's been female owners before,

897
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: so you know that isn't necessarily particularly new. But the Raiders,

898
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: of course, they have a president that is a woman

899
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: and a woman of color. On top of that, and

900
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: even across the league seeing more women who are assistant coaches.

901
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: How close or maybe far away do you think we

902
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: will or maybe just the question is in general, do

903
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: you think we will ever see a woman as a

904
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: head football coach in the NFL.

905
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 5: I don't know the answer to that. It will all

906
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 5: depend on how these women do as assistant coaches and

907
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 5: do they continue to rise and perform and demonstrate that

908
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 5: they can help a team win. And I do hope

909
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 5: that there are owners who are like Al was willing

910
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 5: to hire a girl because I was in my early twenties.

911
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 5: I really was a girl. I believe she can help

912
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 5: me win. I'm going to hire her as a head coach.

913
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 5: I hope that that can happen. That's what should be

914
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 5: the determining factor. Can you help me win? I will

915
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 5: tell you, Jamil, In all my years in the league,

916
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 5: never once did I have an interaction with a player

917
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 5: in which I sense there was any concern on the

918
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 5: player's part, any objection to the player's part, any resistance

919
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 5: on the player's part, to the fact that I was

920
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 5: I am female. Players want people who can help them win.

921
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 5: If they think that you're contributing to the organization, if

922
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 5: they think that you're doing things that help make the

923
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 5: team better, then they're going to support you.

924
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: Now, Amy, you pivoted a bit.

925
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: You know you're involved with the Big Three in helping

926
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,479
Speaker 1: them and being a CEO or there.

927
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 2: How did you get connected with the Big Three?

928
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 5: So I left the Raiders, move back down to Los Angeles.

929
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 5: Get a phone call from Jeff Quantinitz and he and

930
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 5: ice Cube have been longtime, long time, long time business partners.

931
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 5: He said, he and Q performing this new league and

932
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 5: did I want to be involved new phone? Who is

933
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 5: I mean? I just was not interested. And I met

934
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 5: with him in Cube and then I was on board.

935
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 5: And I jumped on board not necessarily because of the league,

936
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 5: well not because of the league itself, but because of

937
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 5: the opportunity to work with those two men. Look, not

938
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 5: everybody who's listening is going to know who Jeff Quatinitz

939
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 5: is Google and though you should, but people know who

940
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 5: Cube is. And I will tell you that what I've

941
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 5: learned through working on the Big Three, I've known since

942
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 5: Nwa burst on the scenes that he is just a magnificent, magnificent,

943
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 5: phenomenal artist. I learned over the years that he's an

944
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 5: even better man. And let me tell you what I

945
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 5: learned through the Big Three. He is a sensational businessman

946
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,720
Speaker 5: and again an even better human being. So I jumped

947
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 5: on board to work with the two of them. I

948
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 5: served as CEO for a bit of time. I remain

949
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 5: on the board of directors. And you know what, We're

950
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 5: going into our eighth season. Everybody said to you, not

951
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 5: going to make it, never going to make it, never

952
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 5: going to make it. Well, guess what, everybody, season eight,

953
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 5: We've made it. And the people involved in the league,

954
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 5: the players, the coaches, and I'll just tell you this.

955
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 5: You know, this goes to your questions about being a

956
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 5: woman and being a head coach. After our first season,

957
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 5: we made a change at commissioner and we elevated Clyde

958
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 5: Drexler to the role of commissioner, and he had been

959
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 5: a coach, so we had to replace Clyde as a coach.

960
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 5: And I was sitting in a room with Cube and

961
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 5: Jeff and Clyde, and I said, how about Nancy Lieberman?

962
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 5: And not one of them batted an I at my

963
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 5: suggestion that she was you know here, she is a woman.

964
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 5: When they said, great idea. We hired Nancy Lieberman season one,

965
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 5: won the championship. The next year the league expanded, we

966
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 5: needed another head coach. We hired Lisa Leslie season one.

967
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 5: She won the championship. And I will always remember George

968
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 5: Gervian at one point saying I need to learn to

969
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 5: coach like the two of them. And if I can

970
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 5: just give one really really special moment. It was after

971
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 5: Nancy won that championship, and we're all sitting in the

972
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 5: room at a very big press conference and the players

973
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 5: at the dais are being asked in every single question

974
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 5: the prefaces, well you have a woman as a head coach,

975
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 5: or what's it like having a woman as a head

976
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 5: coach or a woman is coaching and one of the players,

977
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I don't remember which one grabbed the microphone

978
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 5: and said, stop starting every question by noting that she's

979
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 5: a woman. You're thinking about that, We just consider her

980
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 5: our head coach, and I got goosebumps.

981
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: Well to ask another question about a woman.

982
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: There was a lot of speculation about whether or not

983
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: Kaitlyn Clark was going to be part of the Big Three.

984
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: That gained, you know, quite a bit attraction in terms

985
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: of a lot of people, because reportedly you all put

986
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: a multimillion dollar offer to her on the table. But

987
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: what did you think about the idea of Kaitlyn Clark

988
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: playing in the in the Big Three?

989
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 5: Well? I think she should have done it for a

990
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 5: lot of reasons. But I will make clear first that

991
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 5: when Cuban Jeff made that offer, it was a sincere offer.

992
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 5: It wasn't for pr it wasn't a stunt, it wasn't performative.

993
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 5: They wanted Caitlin to really look at this offer as

994
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 5: a sincere offer and join the league if she wanted.

995
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 5: Wouldn't it be fun to see Caitlin going up against

996
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 5: the men and maybe in some instances schooling some of

997
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 5: them in the Big Three. I thought it would be terrific.

998
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 5: I obviously wish her well, no matter what she does,

999
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 5: and I'm rooting for her success now, but I think

1000
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 5: it would have been phenomenal for her to join the

1001
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 5: league and she still can.

1002
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to give a slightly different opinion. I

1003
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: actually am glad she.

1004
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: Didn't join the league. That has nothing to do with

1005
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: why this is why.

1006
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: It is because one, I think she represents a different

1007
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: generation of player in the sense that she actually grew

1008
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,479
Speaker 1: up watching the WNBA. There were a generation of women

1009
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: that didn't get that opportunity. So I just based off

1010
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: the things she said that it's important to her to

1011
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: grow her the league she wants to be a part of,

1012
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: which is the w NBA. The other thing I would

1013
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: have been concerned about is whether, like, you know, even

1014
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: playing in a in a league, you know, playing in

1015
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: a league against men, the novelty of that, While it

1016
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: would have been fascinating for a lot of people, it's like,

1017
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, what happens.

1018
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: If she's not as good or if you.

1019
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: Know, like you know, of course like that people sometimes

1020
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: people can weaponize women playing against men against women, and

1021
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 1: so I worried about, like this, yeah, what this might

1022
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: look like from a broader context of.

1023
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 5: Okay, I had not thought of that point, and it's

1024
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 5: a really good point. I will say, as to the

1025
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 5: w n B a point. We did let her know

1026
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 5: that we would not object to her doing both. Now

1027
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 5: I don't know if the w NBA would have been

1028
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 5: comfortable with her, and there are some overlap issues to

1029
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 5: work out, but your your point is well taken, and

1030
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 5: I had thought of that, Thank you.

1031
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: But that being said, the idea of women playing in

1032
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: the Big Three, like, how much do you see that

1033
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: as maybe part of the Big Three strategy going forward?

1034
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 5: Don't know the answer to that. It'll be looked at

1035
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 5: if it makes sense. It makes sense, and it'll be

1036
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 5: evaluated on a one off. By the way, speaking of three, Jamil,

1037
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 5: I'm interrupting myself to tell you this. You know, this

1038
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 5: is the first year we're going to have teams that

1039
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 5: are location based as opposed to just traveling everywhere. And

1040
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 5: one of them is in LA and you have a

1041
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 5: standing invitation to come.

1042
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: Oh listen. My husband and I we went to a

1043
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: Big Three game in Detroit. I remember that a couple

1044
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: of years ago. And when I tell you we had

1045
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,479
Speaker 1: a blast, I mean I watched the product on TV

1046
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: and know that it's a good product, but seeing it

1047
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: in person was really fantastic, and especially seeing players like

1048
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 1: I look.

1049
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: At it and say I remember when you were in

1050
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 2: college or I remember.

1051
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: Even the nostalgia of it is also, I think, very

1052
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: inviting on top of it being just generally a good

1053
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: brand of basketball.

1054
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 5: Oh, you're invited whenever you'd like to come.

1055
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: Oh, I will listen. You don't have to threaten me

1056
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: with a good time, trust me, you know. And as

1057
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Big Three, ice Cube has alluded

1058
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: to this before that the NBA hasn't.

1059
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: Been particularly welcoming of the Big Three.

1060
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: What do you make of that from the NBA's part, Like,

1061
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: I kind of don't get why they wouldn't be.

1062
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 5: Well, that was very diplomatically stated that they haven't. Well,

1063
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 5: very diplomatic, you know.

1064
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 2: I was trying to ask a neutral ques.

1065
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 5: You did that beautifully. It's very, very, very disappointing. You know,

1066
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 5: leagues speak often about helping their players when they're done

1067
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 5: with the game. When they're done, how would we help

1068
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 5: them transition? What can be next for them? Well, guess what, NBA,

1069
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 5: here's how you can be helping your former players and

1070
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 5: some your former head coaches. So you know, you can

1071
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 5: talk all you want about wanting to help players transition.

1072
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 5: You can talk all you want about helping your players

1073
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 5: find new opportunities, exciting opportunities, looke opportunities, and your former

1074
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 5: head coaches or your former coaches. I should add that

1075
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 5: as well. But then when you're given an opportunity to

1076
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 5: you don't Why wouldn't We can all ask this as

1077
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 5: a hypothetical, your honor, why wouldn't you if you're the NBA,

1078
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 5: say wow, let's embrace this. What a phenomenal way to

1079
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 5: help our players continue their careers, to help our coaches

1080
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,760
Speaker 5: continue their careers. I think what they're doing is wrong.

1081
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I said.

1082
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't really get the resistance because, as you said,

1083
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,479
Speaker 1: like this is to me also helping their game, because

1084
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 1: these are all players that played in the NBA at

1085
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: one time or another, or as you mentioned, in general,

1086
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: you would think that they would want to see their

1087
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: former players succeed in a different avenue.

1088
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: Right, that's a good thing for their right and even.

1089
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 5: If they don't sense of value in it to themselves,

1090
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 5: do the right thing well.

1091
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: In addition to always asking guests that appear on spolitics

1092
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: about their favorite sports moments. I also in the podcast

1093
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: by asking what I call a messy question, and this

1094
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 1: is where we make the headlines, Amy, this is where

1095
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: we make the bogs.

1096
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 5: All right, Okay, I love messy questions. And before I answer,

1097
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 5: I'm going to tell you I love the name Smallatives.

1098
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 5: It's just Billy, and I hope you trade mark. I

1099
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 5: hope you copyrighted that.

1100
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: You know, I probably shouldn't do that.

1101
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 5: Don't do that.

1102
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 1: But considering you're a lawyer, you that was very very

1103
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,919
Speaker 1: salient advice. But here's my messy question for you. If

1104
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: the Denver Broncos called you tomorrow and asked you to

1105
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: be CEO, would you do it?

1106
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 5: Easy answer, No.

1107
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: When I left the Raiders, and notice how I perfectly

1108
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 1: I purposely picked the rival of the Raiders.

1109
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course you did. Of course you did. The

1110
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 5: answer is an easy one for me.

1111
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 4: No.

1112
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 5: When I left the Raiders, I was contacted by a

1113
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 5: number of teams interested in talking to me about opportunities there,

1114
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 5: and I graciously thanked them and said, no, Jamel, there

1115
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 5: are people that moved from team to team to team

1116
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 5: to team, and if that works for them, that's great.

1117
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 5: During my years in the league, I worked with people

1118
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 5: who were with one team one year, another team three

1119
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 5: years later, another team two years later, un team people

1120
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 5: with whom I worked aroundly. And I'm not simply talking

1121
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 5: about coaches, where that's dera ger. I'm talking about front

1122
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 5: office people, football staff, scouts, GMS, front office people, business people.

1123
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 5: They moved from team to team, to team to team.

1124
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 2: You know.

1125
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 5: I worked with people who one year were wearing you know,

1126
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 5: the green of the Eagles, and then maybe the blue

1127
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 5: of the Lions, and so on and so forth. I

1128
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 5: was a raider. I didn't view that as fungible. I

1129
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 5: didn't view myself as an employee of an NFL team.

1130
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 5: I was a raider. And to me, I'll say it again,

1131
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 5: that wasn't fungible. It wasn't and it still isn't fungible.

1132
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 5: I was a raider. That was my career in the NFL.

1133
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: So were you?

1134
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: Was there ever a team that presented you an offer

1135
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: that made you rethink that.

1136
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 2: That you were like, wow, this is kind of this

1137
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 2: is kind of tempting.

1138
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: Never, And again, I mean was I presented with an offer, yes,

1139
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: but nothing that was like tantalizing, Nothing.

1140
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 5: Could compel me there. I mean, look, I can't tell

1141
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 5: you that if someone said come, no, I guess I

1142
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 5: can tell you, you know, if someone said, here's you know,

1143
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of money, come join us, that no,

1144
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 5: I was a raider. That's not fungible to me.

1145
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: Well, that of kind of loyalty is difficult to is

1146
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: difficult that we don't often see it, I should say,

1147
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: in sports in general. So I admire you for that,

1148
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: because I would imagine that that there was probably quite

1149
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: a few teams now.

1150
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 5: And I don't judge anyone who moves around what works.

1151
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 5: You know, to thine own self be true, my mom,

1152
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 5: by the way, you know, to thine own self be true,

1153
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 5: as my mom told me, I will admit to you

1154
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 5: right now, it wasn't until I was in college that

1155
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 5: I learned that that that was Shakespeare. I thought, I

1156
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 5: thought my mom made that up.

1157
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: Well, your mom was taking credit for that.

1158
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 5: I just thought my mom made that up. And then

1159
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 5: I'm in college. We can all discuss some other time

1160
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 5: how it was that I got all the way to

1161
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 5: college without knowing that was Shakespeare. But I didn't know

1162
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 5: that was Shakespeare.

1163
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 2: That's funny. Well, you know the fact that your mom planted.

1164
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 5: That seed and my mom Shakespeare whatever.

1165
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that says a lot, and the fact that you

1166
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: stuck with it obviously it has served you well. Well, Amy,

1167
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for spending this time with

1168
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: me for you know, learning more about your career and

1169
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: of course hearing your thoughts in in perspective on you know,

1170
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: a variety of things happening in the NFL. And yeah,

1171
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: good luck and continue success especially with the with the

1172
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:43,919
Speaker 1: Big Three.

1173
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,959
Speaker 5: Thank you and continue good success to you. I wish

1174
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 5: you all the best for success and happiness. And when

1175
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 5: I tell you that I really really geeked out when

1176
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 5: you invited me to join you, I am not exaggerating.

1177
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 5: This is a moment for me to get to hang

1178
00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 5: out with the cool kid.

1179
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I take that as a sincere compliment,

1180
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: so I appreciate it.

1181
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: Look at that somebody thinks I'm cool, amazing.

1182
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 5: I only say what I mean, and I always mean

1183
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 5: what I say.

1184
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 2: Amen of that.

1185
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,919
Speaker 1: One more segment to go coming up next, the Final Spin.

1186
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: So I've been struggling to try to come up with

1187
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: a catching name for this segment, and I think I

1188
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: finally got it. Think being the operative word here because

1189
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: I would describe this as a fluid situation. Now, what

1190
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: I've been doing is answering the questions you all send me.

1191
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: But I won't lie. Sometimes you all aren't that talkative.

1192
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: So in the meantime I hear by Kristen this final

1193
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: block of politics, the final spin. Now, spin is something

1194
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: that is very routine in politics. For example, the Presidents

1195
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: spun his administration giving refugee status and expedited citizenship to

1196
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: fifty nine white South Africans as a good deed since,

1197
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: according to him, he has helped them escape a terrible

1198
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: genocide on white people in South Africa. Small note, there

1199
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: is no genocide of white people happening in South Africa. This,

1200
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: of course happens in sports as well. And for the

1201
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: very first final spin in politics history, I'm going to

1202
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: give the topic, give you the spin, and then the truth.

1203
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 2: Y'all got that all right? Follow along?

1204
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: So the topic is Major League Baseball lifting the lifetime

1205
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,479
Speaker 1: ban on shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose, therefore making

1206
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: them eligible for the Hall of Fame. I'm going to

1207
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: put shoeless Joe Jackson to the side for a minute,

1208
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: because to me, this is all about Pete Rose.

1209
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 2: Here's the spin.

1210
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: For Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred, who said this

1211
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: in a statement. In my view, once an individual has

1212
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: passed away, the purposes of Rule twenty one have been served. Obviously,

1213
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat

1214
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: to the integrity of the game. Moreover, it is hard

1215
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect

1216
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve. Therefore,

1217
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing

1218
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: of the discipline individual, and mister Rose will be removed

1219
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: from the permanently ineligible list. Now you've heard the spand

1220
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: here's the truth. The President punk Manfred into doing this. Now,

1221
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: Trump has made it very clear he wants Pete Rose

1222
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. Baseball has an anti trust exemption,

1223
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: and having that exemption, which allows MLB control over television

1224
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: rights and allows them to restrict competition, it's extremely lucrative

1225
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: to maintain that anti trust status. It sure does help

1226
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 1: if one stays in good graces with the government, which

1227
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: includes extending an olive branch over something the president has

1228
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: publicly campaigned for. Now, lifting the band doesn't mean Pete

1229
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: Rose is automatically in the Hall of Fame. The Hall

1230
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: of Fame's Historical Overview Committee can nominate Rose and place

1231
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: him on the twenty twenty seven Classic Baseball Era Committee.

1232
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: Then he would need twelve votes by the six team

1233
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: member committee, who are made up a former players, executive

1234
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: and writers and historians. Now maybe they want to keep

1235
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: Trump happening too. Now, even in death, Pete Rose doesn't

1236
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: deserve the band to be lifted. He bet on his

1237
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: team when he was manager of the Cincinnati Reds. He

1238
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: then lied about it for nearly twenty years. One of

1239
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: the most sacred rules in professional sports is that athletes

1240
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: cannot bet.

1241
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 2: On the game that they play or manage.

1242
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: Now, I realize, with the professional leagues now being in

1243
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: bed with professional gambling sites, the waters get a little murky.

1244
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 2: By letting rolls in, it opens the floodgates.

1245
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: It also sends the message that the integrity of the

1246
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: game is somehow negotiable, and that's the final spid. Now,

1247
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: still want your feedback, You can hit me up on

1248
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: social media or email. I'm at Jamail Hill across all

1249
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: social media platforms, Twitter and Instagram, fan based, blue Sky

1250
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: and threads. Please use the hashtags politics. You also have

1251
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: the option of emailing me at Politics twenty twenty.

1252
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: Four at gmail dot com.

1253
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: You can also send me a video of your question

1254
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: or comment, but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less.

1255
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: Don't forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart

1256
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: and follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is

1257
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: spelled s p O l I t i c S.

1258
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart

1259
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics,

1260
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics

1261
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.

1262
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Schakoigne.

1263
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: Lucas Hymen is head of audio and executive producer. Original

1264
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: music for Spolitics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz Fx