Speaker 1: This show contains adult material and swearing.
Speaker 2: You have been warned that man has a girlfriend and
Speaker 2: he's out here at lunch time in a cafe giving
Speaker 2: me like sex size.
Speaker 1: So halfway through I was going.
Speaker 3: He's like, oh god, her gag green is Zeremo Terrebo.
Speaker 2: Around me?
Speaker 1: I'm a savage. Are you bored of modern dating?
Speaker 2: Meeting the same people from the same apps in the
Speaker 2: same bar You've only chosen because it's close to your
Speaker 2: house and you can make your usual quick getaway. It's
Speaker 2: time to change the narrative on how we find love.
Speaker 2: It's time to start looking for love in all the
Speaker 2: wrong places. I'm going on a wild dating adventure, only
Speaker 2: picking people who were the total opposite of my type.
Speaker 2: And after twenty eight of these dates in two months,
Speaker 2: will I find that special someone? Or well, this experiment
Speaker 2: proved I should just give up on dating altogether.
Speaker 1: It's time to find out.
Speaker 2: I'm Grace Campbell and this is twenty eight dates later.
Speaker 3: Grace, How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good? I'm looking forward to this week's date, but
Speaker 3: I've been worried about how much you like some of
Speaker 3: these guys.
Speaker 2: That's the thing, like I'm I'm I'm gonna go on
Speaker 2: dates and think Ross is going to hurt this guy.
Speaker 3: No, and you know what, like.
Speaker 1: She's going to fucking hate this guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm really turned on.
Speaker 3: You know what. What's funny is we do actually have come.
Speaker 3: I think we are very safe friends and that if
Speaker 3: we went to a club we wouldn't be trying to
Speaker 3: fight for the same guy.
Speaker 1: As Yes, yeah, not at all, not all.
Speaker 2: But also because you're in a relationship, so you can't
Speaker 2: get with anyone, you can't even talk to them.
Speaker 3: I can flourish first. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1: No, I have a bit of healthy flirting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good, just to check in that.
Speaker 1: He's so goddess it is.
Speaker 3: I mean, no, I know it's important. So go on,
Speaker 3: go on, tell me about who's up next.
Speaker 2: Yes, I met Chris and it's about Chris with a
Speaker 2: Why I presume maybe because he's Welsh.
Speaker 3: Hi?
Speaker 1: Hi, oh bye, how are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good?
Speaker 4: Nice to meet you in So do you go by
Speaker 4: she or day or hey?
Speaker 3: Okay, what do you do?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 4: I work for a clothing company? Oh okay, I work
Speaker 4: in the custoller and product relations.
Speaker 5: So are you Polly yes, so I have a primary partner.
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm obsessed with it.
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, we've been together for like fourteen fifteen months, sixteen.
Speaker 4: We're going to say it is no.
Speaker 5: You invented it very ahead of the car.
Speaker 6: And you are twenty eight.
Speaker 1: So when I came in, he asked me what my
Speaker 1: pronouns were.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, Layton.
Speaker 2: But so he let me tell you about him, right, okay,
Speaker 2: because this is so interesting.
Speaker 1: I found him on Field. Do you know about Field?
Speaker 3: Tell me quickly?
Speaker 1: Both.
Speaker 3: Field.
Speaker 2: It's like a sort of I used to think it
Speaker 2: was like a kink based app and but it's basically
Speaker 2: a lot it's like people in polyamorous relationships, Like you know,
Speaker 2: it's a sort of like more open minded app and
Speaker 2: like hinge. So like it's the kind of place that
Speaker 2: you can, like I don't know, expect to like talk
Speaker 2: to people who are like in open relationships or just
Speaker 2: looking for slightly like off the beaten track concept, so
Speaker 2: like very like out of my comfort zone. He is
Speaker 2: in an open relationship. So he said he had a
Speaker 2: primary van. I was really like as a concept jarbed me.
Speaker 2: It was like I just kept thinking of like primary
Speaker 2: care giver. I was like, oh my god, it's can
Speaker 2: I ask Cara was.
Speaker 3: Its primary person male or female?
Speaker 1: Female?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 2: And I think he said they started their relationship open.
Speaker 2: And then I was like really interrogating it because I
Speaker 2: am so interested in polyamous relationship. And he said that
Speaker 2: he had like different people for different things, So he
Speaker 2: was like, you can really.
Speaker 4: Vary it however you want it to be, Like you
Speaker 4: could have like I have a primary partner and I
Speaker 4: date the people to what degree of intimacy I have
Speaker 4: of these people, whether like we go on dates and stuff,
Speaker 4: or we just have sex or eventually just like hang
Speaker 4: out and just like have be a cuddle buddy and
Speaker 4: someone to be like friends with, Like it really depends
Speaker 4: how That's quite interesting, Yeah, but like not necessarily like
Speaker 4: sex or like kissing or whatever, or you just have
Speaker 4: a friend that you do activities with because everyone else
Speaker 4: is boring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like a friend or like he was like,
Speaker 2: you know, but people that I don't actually get with,
Speaker 2: we just sort of like cuddle.
Speaker 1: I was like, why, Like the thing that I kept
Speaker 1: thinking is like.
Speaker 3: That man needs a dog.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly one hundred percent, But also like what did
Speaker 2: you just do that with your girlfriend. Yeah, Like that's
Speaker 2: the kind of intimacy that if I was in the
Speaker 2: open relationship, I think I'd be like, listen, you can
Speaker 2: have like maybe sex when you're on holiday, but like
Speaker 2: the concept of like lying and watching TV just sounds
Speaker 2: way more intimate than anything else.
Speaker 3: And I've known real skills required to just snuggling on
Speaker 3: the couch, so h I find that's strange and just
Speaker 3: do it alone. Yeah, what did he look like?
Speaker 2: He looks like he looked a bit like you know,
Speaker 2: he did his Bible wasn't this, But he looks a
Speaker 2: bit like Jack Grealish the football player.
Speaker 1: Okay, and he wasn't political.
Speaker 2: He didn't know who my dad was, which is actually
Speaker 2: quite an dick if I'm honest, because that's my litmus test.
Speaker 2: If you don't know who Alie the Gambler is and
Speaker 2: you don't really know anything about politics, and then I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if I fancy it.
Speaker 3: And maybe you live in a little bit of a bubble.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: It's such like I always find it when people like,
Speaker 2: I'm not very biscal It's such like I don't know
Speaker 2: that it's not like such a privileged position to be in,
Speaker 2: but it just it just makes me feel like, oh,
Speaker 2: you've probably never voted, and therefore, like I don't respect
Speaker 2: you as much as I would someone else.
Speaker 4: So what's it like having a dad as a politician?
Speaker 4: Does he like ground it into you from Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think I am, but I think it just is
Speaker 2: really ground into me?
Speaker 5: Was he Alisa Campbell?
Speaker 6: No, you don't know you're not into politics?
Speaker 3: I know that the recent guys.
Speaker 5: But I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't pay too much because like they all lie. Basically,
Speaker 4: you just have to pick up the most friendly liar.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: But he was like he was like Tony Blair's like
Speaker 2: director of communication, So his job was to literally like
Speaker 2: right speeches and like talk to journalists, and he got
Speaker 2: a reputation for being quite like aggressive.
Speaker 1: Have you ever watched The Thick of It?
Speaker 2: It's a comedy and it was the main character, Malcolm Tucker,
Speaker 2: who's played by Peter Caldi, was made was based on
Speaker 2: my dad.
Speaker 6: But it's a comedy. Yeah, influence, Yeah, what's the different?
Speaker 4: Being infamous kinda can be bad?
Speaker 5: Oh really, I think.
Speaker 4: So, don't quote.
Speaker 1: Did you hear that guy?
Speaker 2: The vibe of the date was like he wanted to
Speaker 2: have sex to me like it wasn't like he was
Speaker 2: one of those people you know when you meet someone
Speaker 2: like you're very intense.
Speaker 1: He was like looking at me with that like intense look,
Speaker 1: like he like, do you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean? You?
Speaker 1: Which made you think that it's really.
Speaker 2: Intense in a good way, Like that's why eye contacted
Speaker 2: so mad.
Speaker 3: He brainwashed you basically one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: But the vibe was very I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: because his eye called that was intense, but and this
Speaker 2: is what kind of baffles me about open relationships is
Speaker 2: that that man has a girlfriend and he's out here
Speaker 2: at lunch time in a cafe giving me like sex size,
Speaker 2: And that's like whoa, Like, how do you find the
Speaker 2: energy to like upkeep these many like connections with people,
Speaker 2: because I, like, I haven't got the time or the
Speaker 2: energy to like date one person.
Speaker 3: So did you ask him how many pregners his primary
Speaker 3: pregner has?
Speaker 2: He said, it's very equal because in they both sort
Speaker 2: of are doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: It's not like one of them is doing it more.
Speaker 6: Is your primary your primary partner? Is it a woman?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Is she the same?
Speaker 2: What do you mean?
Speaker 6: Like, does she have the same thing? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so she has.
Speaker 4: Other relationships to with both male and.
Speaker 3: Females, right, Okay, Yeah, Like I I'm so happy that
Speaker 3: it's equal on both sides, and like, obviously I love
Speaker 3: him for someone tells me they're in an open relationship, like,
Speaker 3: I want to know so much more, abud. I find
Speaker 3: it's so fascinating and like whatever anyone's comfortable doing, that's
Speaker 3: great for them. But I do think if I went
Speaker 3: on a date with someone and they were like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have a primary partner and I've lost different partners,
Speaker 3: I don't think I would actually be secure enough to
Speaker 3: enter into that situation.
Speaker 1: No, I see that. I completely agree with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the idea that I would date someone who is
Speaker 2: in a relationship with someone else, I just that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you said, it doesn't make me feel secure enough
Speaker 2: and I would always be feeling like second best.
Speaker 1: I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 4: So the you're asked, two boyfriends, are you're also like
Speaker 4: open to you have like multiple relationships?
Speaker 6: No, I haven't ever before.
Speaker 2: Okay, Basically, when I for a period when I was
Speaker 2: breaking up with my ex, we were open, but.
Speaker 6: It wasn't in a healthy way.
Speaker 2: It was like in a last attempt to make the
Speaker 2: relationship work. See, well, it was like I think we
Speaker 2: weren't ready to like pull it.
Speaker 6: We've broken up for a bit and then we were
Speaker 6: like trying to get back together.
Speaker 2: But I think neither of us all it's like recommit
Speaker 2: to like let's be like opening.
Speaker 5: But it was just the worst.
Speaker 6: It's the worst we like to do that.
Speaker 5: Would you have a day someone who's in a relationship, hm, hm.
Speaker 3: Hm, don't even.
Speaker 5: Don't even dignify this with.
Speaker 3: You know what, stop pretending. I kind of think honestly,
Speaker 3: if I was single now, I love what you're doing,
Speaker 3: which is like I want to explore. I think it's
Speaker 3: really important for everyone to go do that. Would this
Speaker 3: be something I would explore? Probably not, because I've been yeah,
Speaker 3: so conditioned to probably like be with one person that
Speaker 3: I'd find it really difficult.
Speaker 5: I would struggle as well.
Speaker 6: I would.
Speaker 1: And so it's you know, where.
Speaker 3: Would you come in the lineup, like on a podium
Speaker 3: where you like silver braz That's.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying. I'm not a second fiddle? Was scenario
Speaker 2: in life? Have I been the second choice?
Speaker 3: If you're in a monogamous relationship, you can't switch off
Speaker 3: your feelings if you think someone's got look and you
Speaker 3: think they're good looking. If you have the odd flert like,
Speaker 3: it's not the end of the world, but like there
Speaker 3: is a barrier where you can't cross the line, so
Speaker 3: you'd have to you'd have to establish what that line.
Speaker 5: It's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: But it's kind of cool that there are so many
Speaker 2: people are like exploring the different boundaries and relationships because
Speaker 2: I do if it works for you, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: really respect it.
Speaker 5: I just don't know if it would actually work for me.
Speaker 3: One of my friends is in a polyamorous relationship and
Speaker 3: they like, literally their relationship is so solid, they have
Speaker 3: a danger ty. They communicate so well, and I'm.
Speaker 2: Always like, go you exactly, and sometimes it means that
Speaker 2: the communication is way better than in a monogamous relationship.
Speaker 3: Did his primary partner know who's going on a date
Speaker 3: with you?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3: That's good honesty.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's good.
Speaker 2: And you know, like the good thing about polyamorous people
Speaker 2: is they're more honest.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I guess they can be.
Speaker 1: But you know, do you think she would have been intimidated?
Speaker 5: Why you wro.
Speaker 3: No, solid, solid, No.
Speaker 4: The thing I like about it the most is like
Speaker 4: everything is like black and white because you have to
Speaker 4: be honest, no reason to hiding, yes exactly.
Speaker 6: So that's what really is appealing to me.
Speaker 4: So whenever there's like a gray area, you notice it
Speaker 4: right away and it feels sketchy and you're like, what
Speaker 4: is like, I don't have this in my relationship with you, like,
Speaker 4: and then you address it, so.
Speaker 6: You get used to, really you get used to.
Speaker 4: Having like really difficult open conversations like on a regular
Speaker 4: because it doesn't work otherwise.
Speaker 1: That's see.
Speaker 2: That is basically the thing I find appealing about an
Speaker 2: open relationship is the idea that there are no secrets,
Speaker 2: that we've basically agreed if you communicate what you're doing,
Speaker 2: it's fine. Because in the past, my biggest issues have
Speaker 2: been trust. And so that's why sometimes I think, oh
Speaker 2: my god, maybe I will be in an open relationship
Speaker 2: because then like you don't need to lie to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But then also, are you have you just always
Speaker 3: been in a relationship where people have lied to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, You're You're definitely right, because I think certain relationships
Speaker 2: like you're probably in now, which is what I hope
Speaker 2: to being, is one that just like instills trusting me
Speaker 2: from the get go, So then it doesn't need to
Speaker 2: be an open relationship because I just trust you completely.
Speaker 3: And can I just say so every relationship I've had
Speaker 3: up until now, I didn't trust them, and I had,
Speaker 3: you know, like maybe like I was doing what a
Speaker 3: lot of people are, looking through phones all that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff, and I felt really like something like that
Speaker 3: gray area, whereas it's different than when you actually have
Speaker 3: a relationship where there's no trust issues whatsoever. And I
Speaker 3: know Chris is obviously speaking about you know, you have
Speaker 3: these really frank and open conversations, whereas actually, when you're
Speaker 3: in your relationship that you both trust each other, you
Speaker 3: don't have to because there's nothing to worry about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because I think you shouldn't be in an
Speaker 2: open relationship just because you don't trust someone. Basically, it
Speaker 2: shouldn't be like a last resort. It should be because
Speaker 2: you want to do that.
Speaker 3: You should be in an open relationship because you just
Speaker 3: don't believe in monogamy and you want to have multiple partners,
Speaker 3: and you're someone who possibly will never want to just
Speaker 3: settle with one person. And also I'm saying this as
Speaker 3: someone who's always been monogamists. I don't know either, but
Speaker 3: that's me looking from the outside in.
Speaker 2: But do you know what I would love is to
Speaker 2: meet his primary partner. Yeah, because I feel like now
Speaker 2: that I've met him and got an idea of like
Speaker 2: him on a day, I'd love to meet her and
Speaker 2: sort of there are so many layers of like being polyamorous,
Speaker 2: and it's so complicated. One of my really good friends
Speaker 2: is in like a polyamorous relationship or like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: there's so many different versions of like non monogamous relationships.
Speaker 2: There's another phrase for the relationship she's in. But she
Speaker 2: was like to me, she was like, you have to
Speaker 2: have so much time to commit to it because the
Speaker 2: level of communication that you have to have and the
Speaker 2: conversations you have to have, like weekly check in with
Speaker 2: each other talk about what's going on, is very time consuming.
Speaker 2: It's like you're not always like arguing, but you're always
Speaker 2: having these like really deep conversations and that I'm just like, God,
Speaker 2: I just wanted like an easy live.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I actually think how you've described
Speaker 3: it there. The reason I could never ever be in
Speaker 3: one is like I can hardly manage having one partner exactly,
Speaker 3: and keeping on top of like fucking Valentine's Day and
Speaker 3: actually just seeing each other and having time for each other.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean, Like where do you find the time?
Speaker 2: Where do these people find the time.
Speaker 3: It's funny because I'm just picturing you and Jack rellis
Speaker 3: jack Ja. Yeah, you know, I'm from I don't support
Speaker 3: UK stactor him having crazy eye contact for you on
Speaker 3: a couch summer having coffee is really unsettling.
Speaker 1: No, I know.
Speaker 2: And also my coffee they gave me soy milk instead
Speaker 2: of oat milk, which I'm like very mildly allergic to.
Speaker 1: So halfway through I was going because I was like
Speaker 1: making mind bright really ed.
Speaker 3: I was like, He's like, oh god, her gag reflects
Speaker 3: is terrible, terrible. So you're having a nice time on
Speaker 3: a day with me?
Speaker 4: Do I have to say?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: You can be honest.
Speaker 2: Give me feedback, Chris, what did you think of our day?
Speaker 4: I think it went well, Like you're funny to talk to.
Speaker 4: He gave me good eye contact, and that's good feedback.
Speaker 4: It was easy to talk to you, and likewise, and
Speaker 4: I'm going to come to your show so I get
Speaker 4: to see you again in some capacity.
Speaker 3: So I want to know would you go on a
Speaker 3: second day with him? Like did you change numbers or
Speaker 3: what we did?
Speaker 2: This is a really funny right, So like afterwards I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, maybe, like I'll see him again because
Speaker 2: it was a good day and like I said, like
Speaker 2: there was written intense eye contacting going on, and then
Speaker 2: I left and then he texted me, and then as
Speaker 2: a few days afterwards, I was like, you know what, no,
Speaker 2: because I thought about like what we were just talking about.
Speaker 2: That whole concept just was overfilling my brain and kind
Speaker 2: of stressing me out. And like I can definitely date
Speaker 2: someone who's like shagging around, but someone who's in a
Speaker 2: whole relationship with someone else, I'm just like, that's not
Speaker 2: really where I'm at.
Speaker 3: I get you, it's kind of hard knowing because if
Speaker 3: you do develop feelings that you're a the side person.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the other day someone was telling me that
Speaker 2: she had a friend who had really pushed for an
Speaker 2: open relationship, but then her boyfriend ended up falling in
Speaker 2: love with someone else that he started seeing, but it
Speaker 2: had been like her idea, and then he'd come back
Speaker 2: and been like, I've developed feelings sin this girl, and
Speaker 2: she was like that's okay, Like should we like meet her?
Speaker 2: And then she met the girl and the girl was like, look,
Speaker 2: it's fine, Like I'm not trying to steal your man.
Speaker 2: We do have feelings for each other, but like I
Speaker 2: wouldn't you guys stay together? And then he was like,
Speaker 2: do you know what, No, like I'm in love with her.
Speaker 3: Oh that's kind of nice that he fell in love
Speaker 3: but also.
Speaker 2: I know but it's like, yeah, that's what I would
Speaker 2: be freaking out about the whole time. You're going on
Speaker 2: a date with someone whole we're gonna fall in love
Speaker 2: with them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I find the whole cancel of really really interesting.
Speaker 3: And as I said, like, I'm like, whatever makes someone
Speaker 3: else happy in their relationship, I'm so happy for them.
Speaker 3: Like I am just vanilla light monogamous bitch here, right,
Speaker 3: But what I will say is, you know, I would
Speaker 3: be afraid to do it for a number of reasons,
Speaker 3: and one of them would be losing your partner. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what if you fail for someone else?
Speaker 2: I mean, and you have to be so secure and
Speaker 2: you're like love for each other to think that there's
Speaker 2: no chance that he's gonna like end up falling in
Speaker 2: love with someone else, you have to be so secure.
Speaker 3: Which, yeah, so it's no to Chris. Chris is gone,
Speaker 3: I think, so I'm afraid. But Chris is not forgotten,
Speaker 3: never forgotten. And he's got plenty of plenty He literally
Speaker 3: has plenty of so many options, He's got a lot
Speaker 3: of team players on that field.
Speaker 5: So he's fine.
Speaker 1: He's well, so many options. Obviously none of them are
Speaker 1: as interesting as me.
Speaker 3: But no, I would love to have like a family
Speaker 3: tree of their relationship though I know.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's such a good idea. The thing
Speaker 2: I'll say is he also he's every this is cyrn.
Speaker 2: But he sent me a message after just being like,
Speaker 2: let's go for another drink, and then I was like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: and then I just decided not to do And then
Speaker 2: the next week messaged me like, hey, like, I just
Speaker 2: want to let you know my week's gotten really full now,
Speaker 2: so like I haven't really got any time to see
Speaker 2: you this week, but would love to get in sometime
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 1: Not even followed up with.
Speaker 2: Like the first proposition of seeing you again, and now
Speaker 2: you've gotten in touchdown me, you're so busy with so
Speaker 2: many other dates.
Speaker 3: That's like you know when you like have your monthly
Speaker 3: wax appointment and then they mess you got Look, I
Speaker 3: know you haven't booked in yet, but my week is
Speaker 3: getting real full. It's like, listen, he's got a lot
Speaker 3: of people to see.
Speaker 2: I know, but it's very like I didn't ask, and
Speaker 2: you're telling me how busy you are, but I didn't ask.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chris gone.
Speaker 1: Next time. On twenty eight dates Later.
Speaker 2: There is nothing more ick to me than people referring
Speaker 2: to themselves and as a conner sort of anything, but
Speaker 2: mainly why.
Speaker 1: Unless you're won number one in the world. Even then, Oh, girls,
Speaker 1: you around for me. I'm a savage obout it.
Speaker 3: They can help it.
Speaker 2: Twenty eight Dates Later is produced by Novel for iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio.
Speaker 2: The series is presented by me Grace Campbell with help
Speaker 2: from Roz Pursu and Dan Whyde. The producer is Diggory Way.
Speaker 2: The executive producer is Claire Broughton. Our editors are Mithilely
Speaker 2: Raw and Max O'Brien. Production management from Sharie Houston and
Speaker 2: Charlotte Wall. Willard Foxton is our creative director of Development.