1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored Alchemedo cheriots to keep 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black. 10 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, 12 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the ass and 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: the ancestors told me that you would come to give wisdom. Thousands. 14 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: They said you would come. Dropping Dropping Gem It's the 15 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: Dropping Gems podcast. What up, everybody? Welcome to the show. 16 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Debbie Brown. This is the show where 17 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: we like to deep dive into higher consciousness but make 18 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: it really deeply applicable to our day to day life. 19 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm always thinking, how can we expand, how can we grow, 20 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: and how can we do it with ease, grace, and beauty, 21 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: and I think that's what we're going to explore today 22 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: on the show. The way that I like to do 23 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: that is with investigating my own story. Storytelling is one 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: of the oldest and greatest, most impactful ways for us 25 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: to share literally everything in a lasting way. You know, 26 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: some of the stories that we revel in from childhood 27 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: or have been passed down from people we love, or 28 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: have come up in the religious systems or beliefs that 29 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: we connect to or operate within, exists because they were 30 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: powerfully investigated and explored and then intentionally shared for the 31 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: highest good of all that connected to them. And so 32 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: when we think about the power of our stories, we 33 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: have to also understand that through really examining and then 34 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: expressing our stories, we are really turning ourselves and our 35 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: lives into myths. I love a lot of work around mythology. 36 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: I used to be really drawn to Greek mythology when 37 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: I was younger, Always powerfully drawn to storytelling. I think, 38 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: in every form and in every way that I've showed 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: up in the multiple careers that I've ad it all 40 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: really centered around two things, curiosity and storytelling. Even when 41 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: I think back to my time of working in radio, 42 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: and you know, having the privilege to interview different artists 43 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: and different rappers and different actors and musicians and politicians. 44 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: My deeper calling and my deeper yearning was always what 45 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: is the deeper story that's in front of me? What 46 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: is the story to tell? What is your story? What 47 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: is the recipe of you? How did you come into 48 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: this moment? We are all layered in very complex ways, 49 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: um and sometimes the complexities are only known to us 50 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: because we know all the facets of our story and 51 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: all the facets of ourselves. But it is through that 52 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: knowledge that we are able to heal, grow, transform, and 53 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: then show up in service to the world, which is 54 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: what I believe is the root of what all of 55 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: our individual purposes center in. So on today's episode, we 56 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: are investigating the power of storytelling, especially as it relates 57 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: to our spiritual and healing journey. I found I like 58 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: to call this my self bology. My study of self 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: is the driving force of my life. I am always 60 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: in my mind, in my heart, in my body, exploring 61 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: how I feel, my responses, what led me there? What 62 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: is my past experiences? How does that plan too? Now? 63 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: And I think what's so important is through that investigation 64 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: of self. That is how you find your purpose. That's 65 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: how you show up forward in a really lasting way. 66 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: And that's also how you heal yourself. You can't heal 67 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: what you avoid. So I always connect with the art 68 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: of storytelling. I love powerful storytelling. And something I really 69 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 1: love right now is us being able to tap into 70 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: what is our inner myth. And by that I don't 71 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: mean what are you know potentially um untruths or you 72 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: know too deep ego identifications with our stories. But we 73 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: should all be looking to live our life in myth 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: thick ways. For me, becoming a myth is more important 75 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: than what we call leaving a legacy. Legacy is beautiful, 76 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: but it's also a little the word is a little 77 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: more closely related to uh to ego, because what we're 78 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: thinking of is I'm leaving my name on a building, 79 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: right Like it's about kind of cementing our current identity 80 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: for the test of time. But is that for the 81 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: greater good? Or is for that first self? Grandizing is 82 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: something I just start to explore sometimes in my mind. 83 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: Whereas when you are looking to become a myth, you 84 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: are finding the most powerful parts of your story, the 85 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: most powerful parts of what make you you, and you 86 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: are living them to the grandest of your ability possible. 87 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: And when you're gone, that is the piece that carries 88 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: on after you. That is the piece that inspires others 89 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: to be more, to change. That is something that can 90 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: exist for thousands and thousands of years. That is not 91 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: connected to who you are in terms of your name 92 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: or what you may have accomplished in the physical world, 93 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: but it's more tied to the essence of your soul 94 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: and how you radiated and what you shared or what 95 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: the big karma was that can be used as a 96 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: tool or information for other people. And sometimes our myths 97 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: are the hero's journey and sometimes our myths are the 98 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: cautionary tale for people, but both are necessary. So today's episode, 99 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: let's get it in. I have an amazing, amazing person 100 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: um who is really doing big work and the storytelling space. 101 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: Kia Miyaka Natis. Kia is the new co host of Invisibilia. 102 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people big fans of that show. 103 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: It's a podcast about challenging the forces and powers of 104 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: the status quo. And before stepping up to host the 105 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: mic at mp R She's told stories in nearly every form, 106 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: from developing reality shows and scripting web shorts to interactive 107 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: art and experimental documentaries, and most recently, Kia had a 108 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: really powerful story that she shared around reparations for Invisibilitia. So, 109 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: without further ado, let me go ahead and welcome to 110 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: the show, Kia Miyaka Natise. So welcoming to the show. 111 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: Really excited, Kia Miyaka Natise. Thank you for joining me, 112 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. 113 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, and I'm so excited to dive 114 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: into you with so many things because the work that 115 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: you do, and we were kind of offlining about this, 116 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: the work that you do, even if it's not explicitly 117 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: called that is deeply spiritual work, Like it is the 118 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: art of the story, of sharing, intergenerational nourishment, of you know, 119 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: creating a myth that will outlive everyone you're even talking to. Yeah. Absolutely, 120 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: I mean I'm like a born storyteller and it's how 121 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: I understand the world, and like nothing makes sense until 122 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: there is a narrative where I could like understand how 123 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: do I fit inside whatever paradigm we're existing in um 124 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: and the power of storytelling to like shift paradigms of 125 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: like wait if you and then we do this all 126 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: the time at work, which is like, well, if you 127 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: put a certain situation inside of a different frame, you 128 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: get a whole different meaning and and that's really like 129 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: a powerful tool of like even understanding myself of just 130 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: like well maybe I could shift it a little bit, 131 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: put in a different frame, and that could have different 132 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: energy around it, and I could just approach the topic differently. 133 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: So I have a theory. Tell me if I tell 134 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: me how this lands. I feel that people that are 135 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: called to the path of storytelling are typically some of 136 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: the most self aware and self evolved people that exist 137 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: among us. How take it? Okay? I will say what 138 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: I will say, especially working at this job, which is 139 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: like just a real like univers aligning sort of thing, 140 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: but coming to NPR and talking to people, it's a 141 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: group of the most intelligent and aware of people. Like 142 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: so you really can't show up with the BS because 143 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: everyone's reading you. You're like reading your face, they're reading 144 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: your body language, and they're really aware and like that's 145 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: their job, because if you're a journalist, you want to 146 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: really be observant of what's happening, take it all in 147 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: and then try to, you know, share it with a 148 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: greater audience. And so working here and especially with this team, 149 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: it does it's just like there's no there's no hiding 150 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of that's it. Yeah, you 151 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: can't show up fake. You have to show up on authentically, 152 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: which is like a dream because there's so many workplaces 153 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: where it's like, no, you have to show up fake. 154 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: You cannot show up as yourself. Yeah, you have to 155 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: have that mask or that armor. And it feels like 156 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: to be able to tell more aid in unpacking the 157 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: story of another or larger stories, you have to be 158 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: very intimately for familiar with all of your own facets. 159 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: You know, you have to be able to kind of 160 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: unpack and repack yourself in any moment to be able 161 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: to see those pathways in another person for their story 162 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: to be expanded and shared. Yeah. Yeah, Like a deep 163 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: sense of empathy is what I really draw upon of 164 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: Like I'm going to get inside what this person is 165 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: feeling and seeing and then try to connect it to 166 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: myself so that it's not just like because it's very 167 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: easy to listen to people and just take the surface 168 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: information of just like oh, that's just what's happening, And 169 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: instead it's like, Okay, how can I dig in deeper? 170 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: How can I find something in myself that I understand 171 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: and can connect with that so that when I tell 172 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: the story it comes from a real place and not 173 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: just like I'm listening facts. This is what happens, you know, 174 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: like your third eye has to be Hella activated, you know, 175 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: you have to pick up that aren't being said and 176 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: the small nuances and cues. Yes, how did how did 177 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: you find yourself in this work? How did you become 178 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: a storyteller? I do feel like I was just like 179 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: a born storyteller, Like I just came And I think 180 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: I came into this world with like my parents built 181 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: to mythology around me, and so then I just what 182 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: does that mean? Wait? That sounds well, it it's only 183 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: juicy now because it's like it's coming the past. But 184 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: I think, like you know, in my family, telling stories 185 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: is how we understand each other. It's how we preserve 186 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: each other's histories. It's also how we kind of can 187 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: create stereotypes and norms around who each person is. And 188 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: so I was the second born um and and my 189 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: sort of mythology is that I came into the world 190 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: and I was just very alert and aware and so 191 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: like my father will always tell this story of like 192 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: I was born and he was holding me and he 193 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: was like, oh, hey, booboo, and I turned my head 194 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: and I'm like, who the hell is this? I was 195 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: just alert out the womb. And I think I've carried 196 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: that narrative with me and that mythology of like I'm 197 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: a very observant person, and I'm a very curious person, 198 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: and I'm here to like see what the world has 199 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: to offer. Like I'm just very interested and like always 200 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: been very inquisitive and analytical, and that's like a part 201 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: of my own mythology in this world of like what 202 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm here for. Yeah. Wow, we were 203 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: some of the early stories you were really drawn to, 204 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: like the things as as a kid, even that jest 205 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: really drew out your curiosity. M I mean so much. 206 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: I definitely was the child who was always asking questions, 207 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: and I think my mother just really encouraged it. There 208 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: was a point maybe early on when I was maybe eleven, 209 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: and my mother was just always pushing me to like 210 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: do more and like go above and beyond. So there 211 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: was like assignment where you had to like create your 212 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: own personal narrative, like tell your autobiography, and you know, 213 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: it's like, all right, you just like write a little story. 214 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: But then my mother was like, well, what if we, 215 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, take some home video and what if you 216 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: interview your relatives? And so it turned into this little 217 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: like video that's probably like an hour long, and it's 218 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: kind of what I used to call like a rite 219 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: of passage to get to know me, where I'd be like, 220 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: now you have to watch this VHS. But it was 221 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: just interesting because this is like me as a child, 222 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: interviewing people about how they perceived me. And that has 223 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: become like a consistent theme in the kind of work 224 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: that I do, which is kind of like I've had 225 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: to understand it. As you know, I am trying to 226 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: understand myself very deeply, because that's the thing that I 227 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: can know the deepest. You know, I could try to 228 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: know other people, but everybody is a mystery. Like I'm 229 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: a mystery unto myself. A lot of times, even when 230 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: I reflect on who I was in the past, it's 231 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: like that's a different girl. But you know, it's really 232 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: interesting to see and so I think that kind of 233 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: set me on that journey of self discovery. Um. And 234 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: then there was also like a book that caused a 235 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: real existential crisis I think also set me on like 236 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: a path of um uh, emotional and spiritual enlightenment. It's 237 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: this book called um oh, I'm going to get the 238 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: title wrong now. I think it's called like what Happened 239 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: to Nancy or something. And it was this book my 240 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: sister had, uh that I took my sisters like three 241 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: years older, and I just like took this book because 242 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm an obsessive reader. And it was supposedly the true 243 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: diaries of a young girl who fell in love with 244 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: this guy, got aids and died. So it's like a 245 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: really really heavy book. Uh yeah. And so reading that 246 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: at ten years old and that being like my first 247 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: confrontation with the idea that you could die at any age, 248 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, like not just like living until you get old, 249 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: but instead like life is kind of random. It threw 250 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: me into a real existential crisis. Like I was just 251 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: kind of like I don't understand what the point of 252 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: life is. Like I was very despondent for a period 253 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: of time, um, and just had a lot of like 254 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: sort of questions of like why are we here and 255 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: what we're doing and what are the what like if 256 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: if the rule is not that you are born, you 257 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: get old, and you die, then what are the rules 258 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: you know? And what are the sort of governing principles 259 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: of this space that we're in? Um? I think for 260 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: me like being in that space of despondency and my 261 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: mother like completely not having a clue of how to 262 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: address it, but going into spirituality for me it was 263 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: like a way out of that hole of like, Okay, 264 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: well I have to make meaning while I'm here, Like 265 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: there's no getting out of being here, so I have 266 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: to make meeting And part of my meaning making was 267 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: exploring like this sort of spiritual existence or like those 268 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: the big questions, why are we here? What are we 269 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing while we're here? What? What is fulfilling? 270 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: What feels good to my spirit? What can I learn? 271 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: And like learning just being like a big sort of 272 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: driver of my existence of just like I really want 273 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: to learn, um, it's always what I'm pushing for. So 274 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: we're kindred spirits. Um just putting that out there, I 275 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: feel it, you know that first of all, that was 276 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: really powerful what you just shared and equal parts gift 277 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: and burden, right, because to be awakened so young, it 278 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: gave you such a beautiful head start on this thing 279 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: called the human experience on planet Earth, you know, and 280 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:21,119 Speaker 1: what a what an interesting way to develop your connection 281 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: to yourself and the way that you connected to young 282 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: to other people at such a young starting point. Um. 283 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: But on the flip side of that also at a 284 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: certain level traumatizing right to have access to that kind 285 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: of information um or to that type of perspective at 286 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: an age where literally your home is your earth, your 287 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: parents are your God. It's it's such a big expanded 288 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: view with no life context. But it's interesting because like 289 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: to hear you mirror that I you know, I consider 290 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: myself someone who has always been led so deeply by 291 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: their curiosity at every turn, Like that is my life's purpose. 292 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: My superpower is my curiosity. And I remember when I 293 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: was eight years old, I was I was like the 294 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: kid that was always befriending adults. But when I was eight, 295 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: I remember like I went, I stopped by like the 296 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: guidance counselor's office, and we were like talking, and um, 297 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: she recommended this book to me, which looking back, I'm like, 298 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: I don't think you should be working with children. But 299 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: she recommended this book to me, and I was eight 300 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: and I read it and it was adult book about 301 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: a young boy who had been sexually abused by both 302 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: of his parents and had gotten AIDS and died. What 303 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: I swear to you, that's why it was like, so 304 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: we're kindred spirits. Um. And it was like, well, long 305 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: story short. I mean, this was another avenue, but it 306 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: was called Between a Rock and a Hard Place, and 307 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: it was this story about this young boy in New York. 308 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean, his best friend ended up dying of cancer, 309 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: like he ended up getting aids. He it was such 310 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: a horrifying story, um, for a child to read. Like. Um. 311 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: It also turned out to not be true. When I 312 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: I was gonna say this too, I'm sorry. Now I'm 313 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: developing a theory because the book that I read also 314 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: have since googled and is supposedly not true. What I know, 315 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, what was happening because this was like the 316 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: early the early nineties, right like when you were reading 317 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: this book. Yeah, there's probably a story here of like 318 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: there was some cottage industry of like because the girl 319 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: in the book Died of Aids, and there might have 320 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: been like a cottage industry. It might have been the 321 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 1: same author, truthfully, because I actually ended up researching this 322 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: woman in this book. So I sat and tried to 323 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: research too, because one when I got to a certain age, 324 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: like I used to think, oh, I'm so mature, like 325 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: I was entrusted with such a deep, profound story, so 326 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: young because adults recognized my wisdom. And then I got 327 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: older and I was like, so that was actually kind 328 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: of sucked up, Like why was I reading that book 329 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: at that age with no additional support and understanding what 330 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: I read? Like what guidance counselor gives that book to 331 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: an eight year old child with no context, with no 332 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: parental approval anyway, So when I started thinking about that, 333 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: when I got older, and I'm like, whatever happened? Like 334 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: I gotta know more about this boy, And so I 335 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: started googling it and I found like a forum of 336 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: people calling out the author as like this hypochondriac woman 337 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: and who made this entire story up? No one had 338 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: ever met this kid that she wrote the book about. 339 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: And then I just spired and I was like, I 340 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: don't even know what's going on. Let me just close 341 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: the screen. But oh my goodness, no, that definitely and 342 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: now I'm gonna get to googling once we get at 343 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: the phone. Because it was this woman who was known 344 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: for kind of like writing these very like diaristic journal 345 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: like I got the real journals from this boy. I 346 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: think she also did one about a guy who may 347 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: have ended up in a cult or like something to 348 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: do with statan worship. But it was like in that 349 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: time period of the early nineties where I feel like 350 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: everything was very much like it was a little bit fearmongering. Yeah, 351 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: the eighties were so busy that it was like, don't 352 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: do this and don't do that. This is bad and 353 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: this is bad. And so it sounds like we probably 354 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: ended up on the same like narrative train, which is like, 355 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: I agree that book rocked my world. I was just 356 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: kind of like I had no idea that young people 357 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: could die, and it was just like the narrative was 358 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: such a like she fell in love with this dude, 359 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: had sex with him once he gave her aids. She 360 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: died on a ranch by herself, where they would bury 361 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: the diapers behind the house because she had AIDS and 362 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: no one really knew what AIDS was at that point. Um. 363 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: But yes, A totally as an adult now reflecting on it, 364 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: and like, a yes, wildly like the times that adult 365 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: supervision would have saved me, particularly from media, right because 366 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: I think, you know, for my parents, it's like you're 367 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: in the house, you're safe, and it's like, no, you 368 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: have no idea what being exposed to. Um. But at 369 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: the same time, totally did set me on a path 370 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: of like wanting to understand spirituality as a means of 371 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: wanting to find purpose in whatever this is. Because at 372 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: that point in time, I was like, am I a puppet? 373 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: Am I trapped in a snow globe on a kid 374 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: giants desk like an alien science project? Like what's happening? 375 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: Am I? The two in the Simpsons? You know that 376 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: Lisa's looking down on It's like for anyone that has 377 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: watched The Simpsons. But you know, it's interesting you say 378 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: that because I think, I mean, ultimately there's purpose for everything. Right. 379 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: So even though if the book was a scam, which 380 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: it now appears that it was, um, it did it 381 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: did send me on that path of really one empathy, 382 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: like understanding that people are arriving to my knowledge of 383 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: them with a lifetime of story or you know, so 384 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: many different experiences that I may not have had access to. Um. 385 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: But it also, yeah, it's sent me down this path 386 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: of being really fascinated by transformation, like like that was 387 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: like kind of a driving force of my childhood, of 388 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: being really fascinated at the mechanism of what makes someone 389 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: make the choices that they make, or like I remember 390 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: as a kid, I my whole life I've been fascinated 391 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: with studying the Holocaust because it was the most horrifying 392 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard of, and I could not understand 393 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: with my mind how something like that could ever happen, 394 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, and it it, I mean that very much 395 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: informs the lens that I see the world with now. Um. 396 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: But you know, I say that to say it's interesting 397 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: because I think when you're on that path of being 398 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: a storyteller, one the driving force it really is this 399 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: like insatiable curiosity, this desire to know every fiber and 400 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: facet of anything that gets your attention in that moment. 401 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: Like my nights every night looks like at least an 402 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: hour dedicated before bed to going down some Wikipedia rabbit 403 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: hole and then finding supporting information. The most random thing 404 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: sometimes is deep, right, Like sometimes I'm like studying the 405 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: deepest thoughts ever thought, and sometimes I'm just like, how 406 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: did I arrive here? Why are you so curious about everything? 407 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: Right now? I love that I'm the same way where 408 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: it's like I love to learn new things. I love 409 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: to have a random fact in my pocket. Like that's 410 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: just like how I'm known in my friend group of 411 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: like Askia she probably knows, like because it's just like 412 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: that's just my interests. And I think it does have 413 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: to do a lot to do with the people I 414 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: grew up around, like my grandmother, who is I'm gonna 415 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: about your age, but she's over eighty five, but she's 416 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: a ravenous learner and like so once she, you know, 417 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: gotten to the internet, it's like I say, her and 418 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: my teenage brother are like the worst online because like 419 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: they wake up in the morning, they're on their phones. 420 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: But she's just she loves to learn, and so I 421 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: think being around her, being around my father, who's also 422 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: a big reader, it also just kind of taught me 423 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: to be interested in what is out there and like 424 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: what there is to learn, what there is to study, 425 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: what there is to add to yourself to evolve as 426 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: a person. Yeah, on your show Invisibilia, which is um, 427 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a really celebrated show that 428 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: expands on so many different kinds of pathways and stories. Um. 429 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: You know, before you step to the mic there at MPR, 430 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: you've also told stories in so many other ways and 431 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: so many other forms. What are you finding you know, 432 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: I'd love from your perspective some of the stories that 433 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: have really stuck with you. And also what are you 434 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: finding is the piece of your purpose of the kinds 435 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: of stories you were meant to tell? M mmm, yeah, 436 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: that's a good question. So yeah, I used to make 437 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: reality TV? Which shows? Which shows? Were you? Were you? Yeah? 438 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: So the first show I worked on was The Fabulous Life, 439 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: which one that old show. I used to love it. 440 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: Once I worked on it, I was like, this show 441 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: is horrible, uh, just because it was very repetitious. Um. 442 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: And then I worked on Salt and Peppa's reality show 443 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: if you remember that if each one? Um, and I 444 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: worked for al Broker for a while and just worked 445 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: in development pitching shows. And then the last job I 446 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: worked on was Kamara Simmons show, The life in the 447 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: fab line. Um. So I had done all of that 448 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: and just came up short and reality TV. Truthfully, like, 449 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: there was never a space that I wanted to work into. 450 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: I just accidentally got a job there because someone else 451 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: didn't want a job and she was like, hey, you 452 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: can put it your resume and they're looking for help, 453 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: and so started working in this field. I actually wanted 454 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: to be a music journalist and I want to work 455 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: for magazines. But at the point that I graduated college 456 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: was when the Internet was kind of like messing with 457 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: print publications and no one knew how to like they 458 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: it was just like this moment of like what do 459 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: we do the Internet? And so a lot of print 460 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: publications were literally exactly how it was. Yeah right, but 461 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: just so weird to reflect on now, like it just 462 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: feels so obvious, like, well you just put that content online. 463 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Um. And so I, you know, I just 464 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: couldn't find my way into that space, and so started 465 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: working in reality TV and you know, all these different 466 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: forms of storytelling. I had entered, uh, interned at FM 467 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: stations in college and done you know, reality TV production. Um. 468 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: And then also I've always really been interested in technology, 469 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: so I was doing stuff online and learning how to code, 470 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: and eventually went to grad school to kind of put 471 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: all those things under one umbrella. Because for me, as 472 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: someone who just like loves telling stories, it's always been like, 473 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: what's the best way to tell this story? Less than 474 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: being like I'm a writer and all I can do 475 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: is right, it's like, Okay, what's the story that needs 476 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: to be told and what's the best way to tell 477 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: this story? Um, And so I guess like for me, 478 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: also creating stories being a place of interaction of like 479 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: my personal narrative colliding with yours, like in this interview 480 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, we have these things in common. 481 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: Now we're like building a connection. And so it's not 482 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: necessarily a story, but it's something that I've held I 483 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 1: feel very proud of that created moments of interaction. Was 484 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: a sort of art interaction that I did for a 485 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: festival on Governor's Island many years ago called the Selfie 486 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: Portrait Project, and basically I would invite people to sort 487 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: of sit at this table and write a description of themselves. 488 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: And I always said, like it could be open ended, 489 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: like there was a mirror there, but you don't have 490 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: to like base it on how you see yourself, but 491 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: instead it could be a description of who you are. 492 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: And then once they wrote out that description, I'd give 493 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: them a sheet of paper and they would have to 494 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: draw somebody else's picture based on the description that person wrote. 495 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,959 Speaker 1: So it became this sort of experience of like defining 496 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: yourself but also listening to other people's definitions, interpreting them 497 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: and trying to create a portrait of that person based 498 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: upon what they wrote. And so it's like an exchange 499 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: of content. And what was really fun for me was 500 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: giving people the space to see themselves in open ended ways, 501 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, um and the and the random pairings of life. 502 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: You know, someone one of my favorites is someone basically 503 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: described themselves as a um A dots in like, you know, 504 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: a little skinny hat. And I got paired with someone 505 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: who was like a really great illustrator and like drew 506 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: a perfect little picture and it's just like this kind 507 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: of random kindness thing. But that also to me expands 508 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,719 Speaker 1: the way people can see themselves, you know, not so 509 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: much being defined of like how do I look and 510 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: what do what do people think they see? But rather 511 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: how do I see myself? How do I want to 512 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: be seen in the world and you know, giving people 513 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: space to really like embody that and give that to 514 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: someone else, and then someone else feeling like the responsibility 515 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: but also the kindness to really like take time and 516 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: say like, okay, let me try to draw with this 517 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: person sees in themselves. Yeah, so I really that that 518 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: was like one of my It's like I said, it's 519 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: like it's a story, but there's like multiple little stories 520 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: in it. But there's also the story of like people 521 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: kind of interacting in the stranger altruistic away of like 522 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: you know, this is just a kind thing you're doing 523 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: for another person. You're not gonna outside of that, you 524 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: don't really net anything. Um but it's a it's it's 525 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: still an intimacy of seeing other people being seen by 526 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: other people and adding your own sort of like flavor 527 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: interpretation to that. Um. So that's one of my favorites. 528 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: But also working out Invisibilia, there's so many great stories. 529 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: I was a long fan of the show, long before 530 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: I ever came to work for it. Working for this 531 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: show is an absolute dream and a blessing because it 532 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: was like my favorite show and I never had the 533 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: ambition even to say, like oh, I want to work 534 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: for that show, let alone host that show. Like that 535 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: was just not in my mind. I was just like, 536 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: this is a great show. There's so many great stories told. 537 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: I will send them to my friends, especially when people 538 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: might be like going through moments of emotional, spiritual, whatever, 539 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, try this episode. It really helped me, um, 540 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: And so to end up then working for it and 541 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 1: being able to lead in this way truly feels like, 542 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, divine timing. I would love to sink into 543 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: this moment for a second, because what I'm hearing is 544 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: I'm hearing you talk on this show something we speak 545 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: to extensively, and it's also my highest rated episode of 546 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: all time is Conversations on Purpose, Right, And So what 547 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: I really love about everything that you just shared, I 548 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: feel that you created, um, this really beautiful expanded view 549 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: of what it is to be in purpose at each 550 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: moment of our lives. Right, and the theme tends to 551 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: always be the same, Like it looks like your your 552 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: purpose is really to be a myth. It is to 553 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: share myth. It is to be so curious that you 554 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 1: are able to get to know yourself as deeply as 555 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: possible and by nature of that, you're also a catalyst 556 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 1: of that for others, or you're helping masses of people 557 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: be connected to that in other people. And you just 558 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: explained every step of the way how purpose evolves. And 559 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: like something that that I've spoken to on this show, 560 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: especially on one of our two Purpose episodes, is really 561 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: around how purpose you know, it's it's not it doesn't 562 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: even have to be the thing that makes you money. 563 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes it crosses over, and that's phenomenal, I'll take it. 564 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: But you know, purpose is like this ever evolving tapestry, 565 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: but that's like woven together with grace, but doesn't fully 566 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: make sense as it's happening. And so curiosity and storytelling 567 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: really as your baseline, like that deep self awareness as 568 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: your baseline, and then at every step of the way 569 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: you got new layers and new deepenings of your purpose. 570 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: And so even beginning, you know, early in your career 571 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: working for that UM, working for those reality TV shows, 572 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: it's like you were storytelling and you were finding and 573 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure you were even connecting in your mind, not 574 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: necessarily sharing on TV, but you were you were connecting 575 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: some deeper self awarenesses of each person and how those 576 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: things were displayed and how to share them, and then 577 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: at the new levels of you in divine timing, as 578 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: you were ready, you expanded to an even more deepened 579 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: view of something you had already done. And so each 580 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: level is a new level of mastery until you arrive 581 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: at this incredibly divine moment that is so synchronistic that 582 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: you realize only God could have allowed this to happen, 583 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, and you're working in someplace that you felt 584 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: already so deeply connected to um and in such reverence 585 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: of and respect for, and then now you're the host, 586 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, wow, wait, hold a minute, 587 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: Like can we sit in that and really like just 588 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: sit in the gratitude, in the awe of that of 589 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: that is how life expands, you know, And it's so important, 590 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: I think for people to hear and to see this 591 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: in your story. It's one it's never overnight, because all 592 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: of it is necessary, all of the levels of it 593 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: are necessary. And yeah, you were doing reality TV, weren't 594 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: that interested, but it served purpose and allowed you to 595 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: arrive at the perfect moments every step of the way. Yeah. Absolutely. 596 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean as you were saying all of that, I 597 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: had multiple chills just because It's something that I definitely 598 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: am aware of, but it's almost hard to sit with 599 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: because it is so much bigger than my ambition, you know, 600 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: like this is it. Being in this position, in this 601 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: space and time is an absolute dream that I never 602 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: even had the ambition and dream, you know, And so 603 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: to arrive to this moment and to see all these 604 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: things fall in the place, and like you're saying, all 605 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: these sort of like random skills that I've picked up 606 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: on the way that like, don't know, if you wrote 607 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: out my career journey, point A does not look like 608 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: it leads to point B, you know, Like no one 609 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: would say, like you start there and then in ten 610 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: years from now you'll be a host And it's like, no, 611 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: that makes no sense. I mean literally to three years ago, 612 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: I was in this really sort of in between space 613 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: where I was between destinations basically. So it's like I'd 614 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: finished grad school, but I hadn't found a job that 615 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: really worked for me, and want had this creative impetus, 616 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: but no, it's no right place to put it. And 617 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: at the time, I was living in Chicago, and so 618 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: I was just picking up random jobs and like side 619 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: hustling my creative passions. And one of those random jobs 620 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: was being a substitute kindergarten teacher, which like one could absume, 621 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you know, telling or being 622 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: a podcast host. But at the same time, it is 623 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: telling stories, it is observing people, it is being you know, 624 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: compassionate and empathetic even when you don't want to be. 625 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: It's like being you know, all these different things that 626 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: I do think make me better at my job, but 627 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: weren't like no one, no career advice would be like 628 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: before you go work out a podcast, substitute teach kindergarten 629 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: with the kindergarten. And it's funny because even that piece 630 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: you identified, that may be a facet of your purpose 631 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: that's just yet to arrive yet, right, But there may 632 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: be some incredible project and if so, let's timestamp this 633 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: so that we can you know, add it when it 634 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: comes out. But there might be something really powerful you 635 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: are meant the you know, to help the world understand 636 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: even about the psychology of children, or a way you 637 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: can help free people that whose stories that you're telling 638 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: around their childhood is so fascinating. Yeah, no, I'm really 639 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm glad that you can see it and like understand 640 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: it as I do, because it is it's something that 641 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: you know, I don't necessarily readily talk about to a 642 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: lot of people, just because it is like it's a 643 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: personal journey and it does require an understanding of like 644 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: the spiritual nature of existence that like you could plan, 645 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: you could plot, you can make lists. I'm definitely one 646 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: of those people where like I write everything out and 647 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: that helps manifest things in my life. Um, but there 648 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: things that have happened beyond my list making, beyond beyond 649 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: my dreams, and it does feel like, Okay, I'm operating 650 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: inside of something that I have a deep respect and 651 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: reference for, um and that I am dedicated to collaborating 652 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: with and working on. Behalf in a sense of just 653 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: like what what what do you want me to do? 654 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: You know, Like my my dreams can be small, you know, 655 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: so it's like what is the greater purpose that I 656 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: need to serve in this space? It's funny on my wall, 657 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 1: I have like a little all these things I kind 658 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: of look at to motivate myself, and one of them 659 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: is I want my purpose to be clear, because it's 660 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: like I want I want to know what I'm doing 661 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: here and I want to be intentional about what I'm 662 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: doing here. I love that, Like, like to me, it's 663 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: just it's just so powerful and I have a feeling. 664 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: But I it's also hope and desire that everyone listening 665 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 1: is really connecting these dots because of what I'd really 666 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: love to encourage and every person listening is this is 667 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: all true for you too, So start investigating these dots 668 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: and also appreciating them and taking them seriously, you know, 669 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: like the thing that's at the bottom of your resume, 670 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: that little bullet point of something that's a blip. It's like, 671 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 1: but is there something else to know about that moment? 672 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: Is there some way that it served you? Is there 673 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: something else that can unlock you? And I think for 674 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: so many of us, like I mean, my pathway is 675 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: like this, it's like just you know, nonlinear. It is 676 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: up and down, up and down. But one thing that 677 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: I love so much about my life is that I 678 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: know my personal recipe is my own. And that is 679 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: why I am never in lack mindset. I'm never in 680 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: a competitive mindset. I don't want to compete with anyone. 681 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: All of us are deserving of everything that life has 682 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: to offer, and I don't have to have all of 683 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: it to feel that I'm better or to feel that 684 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, this is why it's important, and that's this 685 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: is why it matters. And so when you investigate yourself 686 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: in all those crevices and all those those facets of 687 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 1: your story, you just think so deeply in your power 688 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: that you are like effortlessly and naturally magnetizing your purpose. 689 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: To you, it's not you running out and applying for 690 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: everything and just hoping you'll get some of back and 691 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: let me send the perfect letter and let me do 692 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: the follow up, and let me do this like you 693 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,439 Speaker 1: have created you know, this this space for yourself. You're 694 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: still showing up with the work, You're still showing up 695 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: as the best version of you. You're still committed to 696 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: your work. But it's this magnetization of all that is 697 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: for you. It is not a chasing. You are now 698 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 1: in the state of receiving. Yeah, yeah, no, there was. 699 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: There was a point where it's like I feel like 700 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: I'm standing in place and like I can see these 701 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: things coming and it's like now you could run to it, 702 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: or you could just wait and be patient and wait 703 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: for those things to come to you. And that's like 704 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: a new thing that I'm learning, which honestly led me 705 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: to this place was just of like don't push, don't 706 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: don't fight, just like be in agreement and to go 707 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 1: with and also to have a level of trust because again, 708 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 1: like to three years ago, someone want to say, oh, 709 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: but then like three years there'll be hosty, I wouldn't 710 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: have believed them because it didn't feel like I was 711 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: on that path. I hadn't set that intention. UM. I 712 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: just felt so far removed and was really kind of 713 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: nervous and scared because I had spent so much of 714 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: my um young adulthood doing what I wanted and then 715 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: feeling guilty about it afterwards that I wasn't at a 716 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: place where my peers were and I wasn't accomplishing these 717 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: sort of societal goals that you know at certain ages 718 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: that you think you're supposed to hit. And I was 719 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: feeling really um down on myself because of that, like, oh, 720 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: I wasn't serious about you know, I guess checking off 721 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: the list of adult experience. UM. But now I feel 722 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: really affirmed by like, oh, no, I can trust my 723 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: path is my own and I can trust that, um, 724 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: even if it doesn't make sense right now, it may 725 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: make sense down the road and again I can just 726 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: like trust wherever I am of like, okay, it's okay, 727 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm I'm still working towards something. Yeah, 728 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: it all serves purpose. Hold that thought. We are coming 729 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:32,720 Speaker 1: right back, so joining in visibilia. You know this, you 730 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: you're bringing in so many new dynamics, so many new curiosities, 731 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: right that have probably never been thought of on that 732 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: show before. You have such a unique perspective in such 733 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: a varied life. What are you hoping to share with 734 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: the audience? What are the stories you'd like to tell? Yeah? 735 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean I think I have been really inspired in 736 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: the past few years by other storytellers who are incredibly 737 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: honest and they don't you know, they are not concerned 738 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: with you know, respectability or form. They're willing and open 739 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: to acknowledge the complications of life. And I think that's 740 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: what I'm really interested into of, Like, you know, life 741 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: no story. A lot of times we simplify stories for 742 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: the sake of controlling the audiences interpretation um and or 743 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: like the ease of understanding. But it's like life is 744 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: very complicated and nothing. Most things are not black and white, 745 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, most things exist in this space of like 746 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: it was a little bit good and it was a 747 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: little bit bad, and it helped a little bit, and 748 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,720 Speaker 1: it heard a little bit um. And so I'm really 749 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: interested in in stories that highlight these kind of different 750 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: perspectives and challenges um to kind of break up the 751 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: binary of like is it good or is it bad? 752 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, it's good and bad, you know, 753 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: like there's no yeah, yeah, just being a bit more honest. 754 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: I'm very into like honesty, directness, and so I'm just 755 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: really interested in stories that can talk about difficult subjects 756 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: in honest and direct ways that hopefully encourage other people 757 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: to do the same in their own lives. Of like, 758 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: we can have these conversations, we could ask these questions, 759 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: we can endure whatever discomfort might come with it for 760 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: the sake of growth and learning, um and improvement to 761 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: whatever extent you think things need to be improved. This 762 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: seems to be I'd love your perspective on this. This 763 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,720 Speaker 1: seems to be such a potentially even the most special 764 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,280 Speaker 1: time in human history to tell stories because our understanding 765 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 1: of ourselves are our level at least for many of 766 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: us right um, our access to internal investigation is at 767 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: an all time high. Our collective consciousness has been expanded 768 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: to the largest amount it ever has been. Right, we're 769 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: fine really having stories told, um from really a non 770 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: white nonsenis perspective, And it's like in in such an 771 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: expansive way and in so many different places. So it 772 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: must be, Um, I don't know, I just imagine that 773 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: it must be an even more beautiful experience to be 774 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: a storyteller today than other times in human history. You 775 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: can get into pieces of people that twenty years ago 776 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have even had access to. Yeah, for sure, 777 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: and like we're building we're building on now we have 778 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: this sort of library of a certain type of human history, 779 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: not comprehensive, not everybody's and definitely not everybody's perspective, but 780 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: we still have these stories that now we're building off of. 781 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: We have a conscious awareness of we understand what impact 782 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: those stories and the way we've told those stories have 783 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: influenced our reality. And so it to me, it does 784 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: become now this possibility of like stories help construct realities. 785 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: So what realities are you trying to construct? Um? And 786 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,760 Speaker 1: being really thoughtful about that, because you know, ultimately wanting 787 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: to encourage our society reality whatever to develop in ways 788 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: that support the health and humanity of everything here, you know, 789 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: then becomes like a narrative challenge of like, Okay, so 790 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to do like just a bunch of 791 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: human gloom stories, or I don't want to tell sensational 792 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: stories that might get everybody's attention but don't leave you 793 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: with any sort of positive feelings. I mean, honestly, that 794 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: was one of the reasons why I got out of 795 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: reality TV, because it felt, um like it didn't have 796 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: a lot of humanity, Like it was just all about entertainment, 797 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: but with zero sort of reflectiveness of like what kind 798 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: of what are you hoping to generate from creating this content? Um? 799 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: And that just was never a question I heard anybody 800 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: ask and and very easily create a rule for me. 801 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: Whereas like I want to put good into the world. 802 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to just put like filler into the world. Yeah, yeah, 803 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: Like I want to add something to this existence that 804 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 1: feels good to people, um and like it encourages growth. 805 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: And so I think telling stories specifically on this show, 806 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: in this space, in this time, it does it. It's 807 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: really interesting and exciting, even though it's also really challenging time, 808 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: but it's like everything is alive now and we're our 809 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: awareness of it and our ability to influence it is 810 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: so um rich. You know. It just feels like the 811 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: possibility is in the air, and it's on anybody really 812 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: to seize those moments and and make something that they feel, 813 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 1: you know, could benefit the greater population hopefully. M hm. 814 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,760 Speaker 1: It has been amazing having you on this show, Kia. Um, 815 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 1: this has been I just love it. I love everything 816 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: that you're doing. I love your path, I love your perspective, 817 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: I love your voice, I love your truth. Um. We 818 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,760 Speaker 1: ask at the end of every episode for our guests 819 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 1: to share some soul work with the audience, and that 820 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: can be in the form of a self care practice, 821 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: maybe a ritual that you enjoy, a journal prompt um. 822 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: But I'd like to invite you to share a takeaway 823 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: for the audience to spend some time with when this 824 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 1: show ends. Yeah, well, I'll share something that we do 825 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 1: on the show. Actually we don't do it on broadcast. 826 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: We do it as a team. Um. And this is 827 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: like again me that I brought this to the team 828 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: as like my offering of like hey, before we do recordings, um, 829 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: especially we will do body scans with each other, and 830 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: so we take a moment to like, okay, breathe, check 831 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: in with your body, scan your body, observe where you 832 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 1: might be holding tension, you know, relax that tension um 833 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: and then also set the intention as a group of 834 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,280 Speaker 1: like what are we about to do in this space? 835 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: And so that's our own little like invisibile, a habit 836 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: of like, oh, okay, let's let's remember to check in 837 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,439 Speaker 1: with our bodies, check in with these vehicles that were 838 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: in um and make sure that we're good. And so 839 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: that's something that I like to do with my coworkers, 840 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,280 Speaker 1: but also like by myself and and to release tension 841 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,800 Speaker 1: and just to raise awareness of of It's so easy, 842 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: I think, especially as a storyteller, to be very much 843 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: in your head and to forget that what happens in 844 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 1: my brain is also impacting my body, and I need 845 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: to be very aware of where those balances are happening 846 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,440 Speaker 1: or not happening, and trying to constantly like rebalance it 847 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,399 Speaker 1: so I could be aware and effective in the work 848 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,880 Speaker 1: that I do. I love that, Yes, please everyone add 849 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: to cart a beautiful body scan and a beautiful intention 850 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 1: setting for whatever space you're going to be occupying for 851 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: that moment. How can everybody connect with you? How can 852 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: they find you? Yeah, so I'm on most socials as 853 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: at Miakonatis. It'll either be with the daughter or Dash. 854 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,839 Speaker 1: I know that's a mouthful, so no one is. It's 855 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: like I can spell it, but there's no point. It's 856 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,760 Speaker 1: a lot um. But also you know you can download 857 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 1: Invisibility wherever you get your podcasts. Where almost finished with 858 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 1: our first season as new hosts, and then we'll be 859 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,319 Speaker 1: coming back this summer with some more episodes, and we're 860 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,320 Speaker 1: really excited just to welcome new listeners into the Invisibilia 861 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,959 Speaker 1: world of storytelling. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time, 862 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on the show, thank you for 863 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: having me. Hey find me on social Let's connect at 864 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 1: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram or go to my 865 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to 866 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,200 Speaker 1: the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget 867 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to 868 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 1: a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I Heart 869 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple 870 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 1: and Me Debbie Brown for more podcast us from my 871 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: heart radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 872 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.