WEBVTT - Tech Rebounds Amid Tariff Tensions, Tesla Investors on the Sidelines 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:05.040 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:10.640 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.280 Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.200 Live from New York Opsinali Basic, and I'm Jackie Devalas 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:32.960 in Washington. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.640 This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.519 Stocks rebound after a positive inflation reading. The relief comes 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.080 after some market turmoil this week on the back of 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:45.680 President Trump's tariffs. 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:47.720 Plus, we'll dive into what's. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.479 Behind the retreat from Musk's ev company, with Tesla being 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.200 the biggest decliner in the S and P five hundred 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:59.560 index this year, and SpaceX's Crew ten is launching this 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.840 evening for a relief mission for NASA astronauts at the 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.920 International Space Station. Let's get into some of these Intel 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.320 moves right away with Bloomberg's Mike Shephard. Mike, there's still 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.680 a lot we don't know about some of this report 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:15.360 coming from riders on Intel. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.280 Fill us in on what we do know. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.200 Well, one of the questions is really how much of 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.279 this would ultimately bear fruit. And we had reported about 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.280 a month ago now that the Trump administration had approached 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.640 TSMC to perhaps takeover Intel's foundry business That would be 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.160 a big undertaking, of course, given all the malays surrounding 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:38.840 Intel and some of the business complications therein. But it 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.960 also opened the door to perhaps working together with other companies, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.040 and this report would certainly fit into that. However, more 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:50.640 recent events suggest a different direction of travel. Intel announced 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.680 this one hundred billion dollar additional investment in the US 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.160 a little more than a week ago with President Donald Trump, 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.400 and that's the kind of thing that doesn't seem to 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.320 include or leave room for Intel. Also, there are some 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.960 thorny problems involved here. One of them is intellectual property. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.880 Would TSMC be willing to share some of its precious 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.639 trade secrets with a company that could, in other ways 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.119 also be arrival when it comes to its business. Likewise, 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:23.400 integrating some of Intel's operations into TSMC would also involve 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.560 a lot of work. So there's a lot of skepticisms 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.200 surrounding this report. 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.160 We'll have to see what actually develops. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:30.960 Mike, I want to bring in your broader view here, 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.120 of course, because you're seeing a market today that is 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.480 reacting to some of the relief relative to where we 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.240 were twenty four hours ago in the tariff story. Yet 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.800 you are seeing retaliatory tariffs coming in from around the world. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.280 Looking at the EU and Canada, how are investors' markets 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.480 digesting the latest coming out of Washington and what is 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.560 still absolutely uncertain? 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:56.959 Well, there is a lot of uncertainty, as you put 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.520 it earlier in the introm malaise. That really seems to 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.880 be one of the operative words right now when it 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.520 comes to investors, and especially in the tech sector. When 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.080 you look at the now is that one hundred It 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:14.360 really has taken the brunt of this downdraft and markets. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.160 Obviously there was a lot of run up ahead of 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.560 time in the past year or so on enthusiasm about 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.080 artificial intelligence, and you know what goes up is now 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.440 coming down. But a lot of that is being fueled 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:31.360 by uncertainty surrounding the president's tariff policies. And last night 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.600 during a meeting with top CEOs here in Washington, he 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.480 signaled that they should be prepared for more. He sees 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.360 tariffs is a tool for getting companies to invest in 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.400 the US and he is cited in the past Apple's 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.280 decision to invest five hundred billion dollars year in the US, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.560 and we just talked about TSMC's plans both of those 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:52.840 he credited to his own tariff policies. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.800 Let's talk a little bit more about that meeting. There 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:56.000 was a lot of anticipation. 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.960 We saw chip stocks really take a beating last week, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:00.840 but now they're getting a lot little bit of release. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.440 They're up by about one point six percent. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.600 What did we learn more from that meeting with tech 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:07.920 CEOs earlier? 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.920 Well, the tech CEOs meeting a Monday seemed to be 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.680 less of a fireworks event, and then the business roundtable 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.320 meeting last night seemed to be a little bit more 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.640 of a a more cordial give and take, even given 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.040 the circumstances that we're seeing in the market and the 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.640 concerns that CEOs may have about where to take their 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.520 business in light if the way tariffs could affect their 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.200 supply chains. We heard Anthony Nary, the CEO, if you'll 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:40.240 look Packard Enterprises tell investors on a call last week, look, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.920 we don't know where this is going exactly. There may 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.840 be some pricing changes. We're going to do the best 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.880 we can through our supply chain to minimize the impact, 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:51.839 but they really don't know where it's going. And that 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.359 was also echo by the head of Broadcam Broadcom hoked 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.960 in on a call with investors as well, suggesting that hey, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.320 this is really your we don't know where this is. 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:02.080 Going, Mike. 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.440 We appreciate all your time and all your analysis. That 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.760 is Bloomberg's Mike Sheppard. Now I quickly want to check 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.479 in on shares of Tesla as well, because as Mike 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.480 was talking about a lot of malaise in the tech sector, 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.480 but not today, and Tesla is the one that's really 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.560 leading the Nasdaq one hundred higher. It is still up 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.240 more than five percent, but remember it was down fifteen 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.479 percent on Monday, So between Tuesday and Wednesday's gain, we 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.480 have not recouped all of those losses yet it sure 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.320 helps that it's up today for the broader Nasdaq one 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.440 hundred and to zoom out. Now we're going to bring 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.200 in Amanda Agatti. She is a CIO of P ANDC 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.480 Asset Management Group. You know, you think about what's happening 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.040 in the tech sector. Yes, today is a day of relief, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.919 but the MAG seven, the relative underperformance that you have seen. 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:52.040 At what point do you see that overhang start to disappear? Really, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.719 the only member of the MAG seven that is up 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.279 here to date is meta. 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.240 That's right, it's great to be with you. Yeah, And 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.640 I would say that overhang is going to stick around 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.840 for a while here. The challenges that we're still very 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.000 much in a purple haze of fiscal policy uncertainty, and 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.120 it's namely a tariff and trade related policy, and so 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.960 it's not so much of a direct hit to the 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.640 underlying fundamentals of the MAG seven. In fact, I think 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.120 for the most part their business models tend to be 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.680 somewhat insulated from it. But the challenges that in this 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:30.600 purple haze of uncertainty, there's pretty extreme valuation, multiple compression, 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.320 and the MAG seven have been priced in your perfection. 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.480 So we're not seeing fundamentals deteriorate, We're just seeing multiples 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.560 come down materially until we start to get past some 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.359 of this growth scare narrative that's been gripping markets. I 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.120 think it's going to continue to be an overhang. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:47.920 Amanda. 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.800 You mentioned fundamentals, they look strong. There was so much 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.800 reassurance from companies and appeased investors that a lot of 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.960 the capex going in isn't going to stop. That spig 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.039 is going to keep going. But are we bracing for 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:07.520 a more fragile tech sector. Now, what catalysts going forward 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.480 do you see kind of providing more assurance to investors 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.480 that they're not going to be that easy to break. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.160 It's it's a really great question, and it's a really 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.720 hard one to answer, and I think that's why tech 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.240 investors in particular are struggling in this environment, because we 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.760 are craving more catalysts. We're in a little bit of 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.120 a lull in terms of innovation, and so the focus 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.640 these last few years has really been on chips one 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.680 stock in particular. But where are all these use cases. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.880 We need to see broader based use cases, new business 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.560 models really developing and broadening in terms of adoption across 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.920 the market. I think that's really the critical catalyst or 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.680 next step to this next wave of innovation and perhaps 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.200 even getting the market rally catalyzed again. So I think 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.040 it's going to take a little bit of time, given 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.120 some of this policy uncertainty, but I think it apps 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.400 Lily could become a tailwind in the second half of 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.280 this year and into twenty twenty six. 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:06.360 It's just we're in. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.400 A little bit of a void at the moment, which 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:09.720 is very frustrating. 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:10.920 Certainly you know, one. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.200 Interesting part of the tech trade as well. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.640 As just how much it has contributed to the weakness 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.040 in the consumer discretionary sector for the S and P 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.040 five hundred. You think about Amazon, you think about Tesla. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.120 In reality, how levered are some of those giant tech 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.320 names to the US consumer and any potential further weakening. 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.840 Well, I always say that the US consumers and the 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.600 driver's seed, right, seventy percent of GDP or you know, 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.640 spending in this consumption is tied is tied to the 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.480 consumer in some way, shape or form, and so the 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.520 path for the consumer and the health of the US 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.079 consumer is critical for all of us in terms of 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.200 both the market and the economic cycle. But I think 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.320 you're right to make a little bit of a distinction 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.640 here in terms of how much influence directly hits some 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.120 of those business models. I think the story and the 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.640 concern is much more around consumers start to get a 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.800 bit more paralyzed by this policy uncertainty, and so they 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.520 slow down or even stop spending, which sort of cascades 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.880 into a more material slowdown than what we're seeing. The 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.360 earnings growth backdrop is continuing to be strong. It's not 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.040 so much about one quarter. The full year expectation still 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.800 looks very strong. The economic cycle looks pretty strong, consumer 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:32.360 spending related data looks solid. So again, it's all about 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.360 the sort of narrative and this sentiment concern. It's not 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.160 so much translating into the underlying fundamentals breaking down yet. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.800 Now when you think about the consumer. Also, we're thinking 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:44.960 about the US consumer so much, and you have to 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.880 wonder whether Europe China is a bigger headwind or tailwind 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:50.640 for this group. 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:52.240 Do you see any risk there? 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.920 I'm most concerned. I think about developed international exposure, and 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.000 so Europe in p particular, just given some of the 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.360 continued geopolitical tensions and conflict. You know, are we going 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.000 to get a resolution out of Russia and Ukraine or not. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.680 That's a really critical thing that I think needs to happen. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.640 To see signs of life improve in a more material 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.120 way across the Eurozone. I think it is possible to 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.520 see a bit of a relief rally. We started to 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.800 get it at the beginning of the year, and then 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.560 we've seemingly seen it falter a bit here. So you know, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.280 I am most concerned about that area. I think in 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.200 terms of emerging markets. More broadly, there's a really attractive 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.160 valuation opportunity there, so for investors who can be patient, 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.120 I think this is a very attractive entry point, even 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.480 in the midst of you know, additional tariff policy aims 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.120 specifically at China. I think there is a real opportunity 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.920 set there for investors to be focused on in terms 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:55.559 of allocating capital early this. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:11:01.040 Year, Amanda on that emerging market storage is a huge 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.040 competitor here in the tech space, Are you seeing any 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.960 interesting opportunities with some of those up and coming companies 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.840 unveiling new features and AI models every week, I could 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.880 give investors perhaps another choice outside of the traditional US 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:18.840 based tech players. 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.800 Well, I'm never going to bet against our US tech 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.600 industry just as a general rule, I have a very 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.040 home country bias here. But of course, I mean, I 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.720 think innovation shows up in all different shapes and forms, 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.920 and so you know, even just what seemingly is old 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.840 news now, but the deep Seek story that sort of 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.800 came out of nowhere recently, I think is fascinating in 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:48.040 terms of this innovation story being born out of anywhere 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.000 and sort of this natural comparative or competitive advantage that 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.280 we have as it relates to AI, automation, robotics, et cetera. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.600 The story continues, and so I think it's really healthy. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.959 I think it's important for investors to think much bigger 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.160 and more holistically than just one or two names. This 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.880 cycle is very early innings. We have a long, long 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.360 runway here, and so we are absolutely believers in the 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:18.160 secular tailwinds here. And so from a multi asset investor perspective, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.400 I think you really do have to look beyond US 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.520 equities in this environment, even in private markets. I think 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:29.360 there's a tremendous amount of opportunity in vcland we'll. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.960 Have you down as not betting against the US. Amanda 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.920 Agati from PNC Asset Management, thank you so much for 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.880 joining us. Coming up, Google deep Mind launches a new 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.400 branch of its AI model to help robots navigate the 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:43.120 physical world. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.520 We'll get the details after the break. This is Bloomberg. 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.920 Google deep Mind has unveiled a new Gemini model that 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.839 it says helps robots understand the physical world around them. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.600 Bloomberg's Mark German joined us. Now. Mark, It seems like every. 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.880 Big tech company has been unveiling some kind of new 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.560 robotics venture as of like, how does Google stack up? 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.160 Yeah, I've been trying to tell everyone on here. Robotics. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.320 Consumer robotics is the next big thing in the industry. Right, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:29.080 we had autonomous cars, we had mixed reality AR glasses, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.520 we have voice right, but artificial intelligence is going to 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.280 be at the core of everything. And really the ultimate 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:41.080 hardware expression of AI is robotics right, being able to 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:47.439 understand how a human acts right, artificially learn from data right, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.680 and mimic a human, and that is what a robot is. Right. 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.559 And so you've seen Tesla play in this space. Now 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.400 you're seeing Meta make a big investment in that space. 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.360 And now today Google is announcing new Gemini models in 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.200 infrastructure specific to powering robots. So all of these companies 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.240 want to play in this space. Meta announced versions of 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.240 Lama right in a big investment to build consumer robots 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.880 and to be at the center of everything. Meta wants 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.480 to be the future operating system to power these robots. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.520 But they're going to have a big competitor here with 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.800 Google right, who has experience building operating systems for first 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.280 party and third party hardware. And obviously Gemini is right 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.880 up there with Lama and CHADGBT and the other AI systems. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:32.840 So this is a big deal not only for Google 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:33.960 but the industry at large. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.480 So mark how convincing is this push Because we have 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.320 seen Google try or Alphabet try to get into the 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.360 robot world before. I understand is that they shut down 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.920 a spinoff company that was associated with this. So this 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.680 time around, what's the difference and how big is the push? 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.280 I think the difference this time is Gemini, Right. The 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.680 underlying AI technology is much different, It's much more advanced, 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.440 it's more reputable, right, and now appears to be the 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.960 time where companies are willing to put in the proper investment, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.920 the necessary infrastructure to make robotics happen. Right. Waimo is 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:16.000 being has been pretty successful comparatively in the industry, and 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:17.920 so what you're seeing is a lot of data collection. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.880 There a lot of experience in autonomy and cameras, and 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.960 that's technology that Google could ultimately use if it wanted 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.320 to build its own humanoid. But don't count out Apple. 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.200 Apple has Skunkworks teams. We're in humanoid robots as well. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.880 The big difference is they're not going to publicly release 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.960 an underlying robotic model, right, in order to support third 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.280 party robots and other consumer hardware. They're going to go 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.760 all in house. They're going to follow the Tesla method 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.560 that you've seen from the Tesla bot over the past 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.080 couple of years. So at some point in the next 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.400 five to ten years, you're going to see real competition 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:57.840 between Google, Meta, Apple, Tesla, and Chinese companies and others 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.320 in consumer robots. So this is this is going to 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.080 be a really big deal. And some of those movies 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.080 we've seen over the last several decades, they're starting to 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:06.920 come to reality. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.760 Mark, We thank you so much for your time today 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.960 breaking it all down for us. That is Bloomberg's Mark German, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.080 And as you know, I'm excited about having a robot 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.720 at home, and we're going to talk more about robots here. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.320 Not as pleasant as a story shares of consumer robotics 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.160 company I Robot. They're sliding today after it warned of 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.359 quote substantial doubt over. 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.280 Its ability to continue to operate. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.800 You might remember that the company was once sought after 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.600 by Amazon for more than a billion dollars and it 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.320 has begun a foremost strategic of you to evaluate options 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.240 for more Bloomberg's Vanagasia Perez joins us now on set. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.520 Was this warning a surprise, especially given the kind of 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.760 unicorn standing that it once had, and not totally. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.960 The company has been losing money and burning cash for 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.680 the you know, the past at least three years, and 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:04.800 then when the Amazon deal fail basically last year, the 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:10.440 company lost a big option. It started a strategic review 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.679 last year. It has cut losses, but it's still loss making, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.840 and it has cut expenses, but it's still struggling. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.920 What does this tell us about the state of consumer 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.399 demand in this space? As we were hearing it seems 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.000 like the time horizon for some of these technologies to 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:34.160 really get in the hands of consumers takes time, especially 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.360 for those to get used to them. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.080 What does this tell us? 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.560 So in the case of this company, I guess it's 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.400 another example of consumers cutting on discretionary spending. We've seen 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:49.120 it in other names like casual lining companies like Hooters 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:56.359 considering bankruptcy filing. We've seen it in a broad range 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.520 of retailers also struggling. So this is another example. And 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.240 the company mentioned in the going concern warning that consumer 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.560 spending could be one of the reasons why. Like weaker 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.399 consumer spending could be one of the reasons why it 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.480 doesn't manage to survive, and tariffs was another one that 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.280 they mentioned as a potential threat to the company's viability. 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.000 Tariff's winging in here as well. Bloomberg'sidna Garcia Perez, thank 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:30.360 you so much for joining us. 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.760 Now, some long term Tesla investors are backing away from 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.240 the stock after falling as much as forty two percent 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.600 so far this year, and this is as questions arise 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.720 about the company's future. For more of Bloomberg's Max Chaffin 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:45.080 joins us today. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:46.600 Now I want to point. 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.840 Out also, of course today people are buying the dips, 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.440 people are believing the story. Today you have the president 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.040 himself looking to defend Musk in many ways. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.440 What is the trouble in Paradise? 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.720 I mean more than defend, you know, wholding a sales 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.840 event on the White House lawn. The trouble is that 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.840 Tesla's customer base is not especially trumpy, and that's probably 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.159 an understatement. You think of a typical Tesla owner, this 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.439 is like an upper middle class, suburban progressive, or at 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.080 least a centrist, somebody who cares about the environment. 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:23.200 You know, these are not Trump voters. These are very. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.119 Much the constituency that backed Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.120 to a large extent, Kamala Harris, and those people, which 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.560 include a lot of Tesla customers, are very mad at 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.520 Elon Musk right now. We've seen protests all across the 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.920 country and the world, including some you know, acts of vandalism, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.000 and just this kind of tone of mockery of you know, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.720 seeing Elon Musk as kind of a lightning rod for 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.120 the worst for what these people, these Tesla customers see 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.960 as the worst excesses of the Trump administration so far. 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:56.000 Max. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.480 And it's not just about the political leanings of who's 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.640 buying some of those cars, but they've recently gotten some 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:07.400 pretty good support, especially under the Abiden administration, for ev credits. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.560 And I'm having trouble reconciling how Elon Musk can really 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.480 back Trump in some ways, but his company is somewhat 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.560 dependent on the government also supporting the transition to electric vehicles. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:20.600 How is that working out? 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.520 Yeah, you know, Trump kind of ran to some extent 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.640 as an opponent of electric vehicles, talking constantly about ending 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.199 the quote unquote electric vehicle mandate, you know, and in 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.879 fact sign an executive order early on stating an attention 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.320 to pull back some of these regulations. Even brought this 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.119 up during the event yesterday, showing offering it as an 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.000 example of how selfless Musk is. 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:44.600 I think from the kind. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.360 Of bull perspective, like why Tesla investors could be potentially 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.879 okay with this is the fact that Tesla has a 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.480 leading market position. So if you remove these subsidies subsidies 0:20:55.480 --> 0:21:00.119 from electric cars, it arguably hurts GM and Ford and Tesla's. 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.719 Other copetitors more than it hurts Tesla. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.840 Tesla has wider margins on evs, it's able to better 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.320 absorb this. Now that said, those companies are bringing out 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.080 new models and they're stealing customers away from Tesla. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:12.000 Right. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.480 That's Bloomberg'smax Taffkin, Thanks so much for joining. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:25.200 Us, and welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:26.920 I'm Shanalie Bask in New York. 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:29.440 And I'm Jackie Devalis in Washington. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.560 It's got to check on these markets because you do 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.840 have a NAZAQ one hundred that has been fluctuating. We 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:36.800 are well off of session lows for the morning, but 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.840 only up now about six tenths of one percent, and 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.520 it's trying to fight for dominance. You have the NAZAQ 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.479 one hundred with only roughly half of its component parts 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.760 up on the day, the other half of course down 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.760 the Philadelphia A Semicconductor Index maintaining its lead after a 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.880 brutal stretch the last couple of weeks. It is now 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.760 up about two point three percent heading into midday, and 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.439 on other movers. This morning, we're going to bring in 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.440 Bloomberg's Isabelle Lee who joins us now on set Haitianali. 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.840 So there's really a ton of uncertainty in the markets 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.280 right now. A gauged by city shifted from risk off 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.960 to risk on, risk on to risk off rather in 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.400 just six weeks, and really just as liew of headlines 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:18.600 crossing the wire this morning from Canada firing back on 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.840 TIFFs to inflation is really causing some more acts. So 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.280 back to inflation, that's a big data today. It showed 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.440 some signs of easing, but even so economists are anticipating 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.520 that the escalating trade war will really just drive up prices, 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.280