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Speaker 1: He can be angry at an addict all you want,

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Speaker 1: but if you choose to do it that way, you're

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Speaker 1: never going to be able to open their eyes.

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Speaker 2: Lava for good and stand together. Music Present The War

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Speaker 2: on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper

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Speaker 2: into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, its impact,

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Speaker 2: its failures, and the people offering a better path forward

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Speaker 2: today on the show. Lead singer and songwriter of multi

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Speaker 2: platinum rock band Shine Down, authors of nineteen number one

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Speaker 2: hits on the Billboard Mainstream Rock Charts, the most ever,

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Speaker 2: including Atlas Falls, Save Me and Second Chance.

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Speaker 3: Outspoken mental health.

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Speaker 2: Advocate Brent Smith, and his longtime manager, friend and confidant,

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Speaker 2: acclaimed record promoter and manager Bill mcgaffe. All right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: another episode War on drug season two.

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Speaker 4: Yes, real people, real stories, real solutions.

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Speaker 5: And the real Clayton English, the real Greg. There we go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not the AI version, no, which probably would be

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Speaker 4: next season.

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Speaker 3: We get like one hundred and fifty organs.

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Speaker 4: This is what they've been doing. This is why they

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Speaker 4: put their face mapping us right.

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Speaker 2: Now probably, But anyway, Yeah, amazing interview. I got I

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Speaker 2: did this one solo. I saw Brent Smith and his

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Speaker 2: his manager Bill mcgathe. Brent is from a Shinedown, one

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Speaker 2: of the most successful bands of all time, and they

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Speaker 2: were getting ready to gear up for a show that

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Speaker 2: they're going to do later on at MSG, so we

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Speaker 2: were able to catch him up there and it was

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Speaker 2: a great, great conversation.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, he's one of literally one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: stars in the world, and he is the most humble,

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Speaker 2: you know, honest, like just content, just an amazing person.

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Speaker 2: You know, there is this story that comes up and

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Speaker 2: it really feels like, you know, this kind of Hollywood

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Speaker 2: story of you know, Brent staring down you know, success

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Speaker 2: and fame potentially or is he can allow this addiction

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Speaker 2: to maybe you know, you know, divert his career. And

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Speaker 2: again it's addiction coming in all shapes and forms and

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Speaker 2: what recovery is for some and what it is and

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Speaker 2: for others. I don't want to give much away, but

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Speaker 2: it really is one of these like really really cool

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Speaker 2: short that I had no idea about and so can't

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Speaker 2: wait for y'all to listen to it. And without any

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Speaker 2: further ado, Brent.

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Speaker 4: Smith, Hey there, me and Greg, our guests and sponsors

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Speaker 4: may sound smart, We may even make some good points,

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Speaker 4: but at the end of the day, we're not medical

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Speaker 4: profession Okay, Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast.

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Speaker 4: Anything we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,

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Speaker 4: consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.

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Speaker 2: Got it, Okay, Welcome back to the War on Drugs.

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Speaker 2: We have some very special guests here. Brent Smith, creator Shindown.

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Speaker 2: Being a thirty seven year old kid from the suburbs,

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Speaker 2: Shinedown was a big part of my childhood growing up

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Speaker 2: and throughout the year, So welcome to the show and

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Speaker 2: rate of promotion legend Bill mccathe's here as well, and

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Speaker 2: so thank you all for coming to the War on

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Speaker 2: Drugs podcast.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate it, happy to be here.

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Speaker 6: You're very welcome.

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Speaker 3: First album comes out in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 5: Is that right? Is the debut album circulated?

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Speaker 1: I think that it was, Yeah, roughly two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two.

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Speaker 5: I'd have to go.

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Speaker 1: Back and like check whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: the first album I think it was.

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Speaker 5: Was it last year? Yeah? Last year?

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Speaker 1: So no, it would have been two thousand and three

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Speaker 1: because it had its twenty year anniversary last year.

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Speaker 2: It was like at Deluxe ou I remember, yeah yeah

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Speaker 2: Spotify Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, that's right, okay, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, that'd be twenty years from there. And so

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Speaker 2: so you all toureds immensely. I was kind of like

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Speaker 2: three year stuff like, I mean, it was over two

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Speaker 2: hundred gigs a year. I might probably under selling it

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Speaker 2: at this point.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean that's what that's we had to do that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was all built off I

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Speaker 1: mean honestly, man, it was built off of the radio

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Speaker 1: and just relentless touring like to the point. But you're young,

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Speaker 1: your twenties, you're in your twenty and you know, we

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Speaker 1: weren't shy like with the work ethic, right. We were

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Speaker 1: definitely on drugs, yeah, and a lot of them, but

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Speaker 1: you could have never said that we were lazy.

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Speaker 2: Two hundred so much shows and travel and obviously you're

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Speaker 2: getting off. It's not like you're in private jets or anything.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming tour bus and and all that.

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Speaker 3: And so was drugs.

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Speaker 2: And alcohol a big part of kind of that early

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Speaker 2: start before y'all started to make it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then how did it kind of change when.

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Speaker 2: Resources start to come You're going through this their success,

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Speaker 2: there's probably there's you know, there's every vice that you'd

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Speaker 2: ever want, it's women, booze or anything. Do you feel

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Speaker 2: that was just kind of the ramp up, like the

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Speaker 2: availability and everything, or was it more now looking back,

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Speaker 2: is it the stress of the situation?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of like thirty thousand foot perspective. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: How do you think that like change crossover when you

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Speaker 2: guys started to make it or at least get some recognition, notoriety.

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Speaker 1: I think what happened was that there for a minute

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, it was fun and then it got

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Speaker 1: then it got not fun, it got deadly. And also,

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Speaker 1: I will be honest with you, like we were on

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Speaker 1: a trajectory. Someone once told me, they said, you have

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Speaker 1: your whole life to make your first record, and then

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Speaker 1: if that first album is successful, you're going to get

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Speaker 1: six months to do your next one.

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Speaker 5: And it was the speed.

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Speaker 1: Of which, like honestly, the drugs and the gasoline of

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Speaker 1: the you know in the diesel, you know, of the

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Speaker 1: alcohol it fueled like you can't slow down, you can't stop,

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Speaker 1: Like we got to get in because the first record

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Speaker 1: was successful, by a lot of people's surprise.

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Speaker 5: If you will.

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Speaker 1: But it was just out of pure tenacity that we

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Speaker 1: made it successful. And then the second record it was

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Speaker 1: exactly that. It was about six months like get in there,

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Speaker 1: get it done, get back out on the road. So

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Speaker 1: the drugs were the fuel inside of that too, not

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Speaker 1: all the time, but like all of a sudden, it

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Speaker 1: became not fun. And the other thing that was happening

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Speaker 1: was all these bands. Me and Bill were talking. Me

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Speaker 1: and Bill were talking about this the other day. There

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Speaker 1: were so many great bands, dude, that came out during

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Speaker 1: like two thousand and three to two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: They're not a band anymore because a lot of them died. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they died of overdoses, man.

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Speaker 2: And that was I mean, right during the opioid epidemic,

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Speaker 2: as it's ramping up, like oxyconton, We're starting to come

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Speaker 2: come into play and then so I'm sure that was

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Speaker 2: a huge part of it.

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Speaker 7: I could name the artists that we were working with

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Speaker 7: tourm with that they went in to get them for

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Speaker 7: sound check and they were dead in their bunk.

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Speaker 5: Dude. It was brutal, and I mean it was it was.

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Speaker 1: And so then you're dealing with this whole thing of

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Speaker 1: like your friends. You're watching them just I mean, and

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Speaker 1: they did. They were like dropping like flies. But then

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Speaker 1: I look at myself in the mirror, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm still snorting cocain, yeah, you know, or I'm still

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Speaker 1: and I was massive.

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Speaker 3: When drugs are we talking about?

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Speaker 5: It was massively addicted to oxycon.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: I was doing four.

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Speaker 1: Hundred milligram up my nose a night by two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, two thousand and six. It was not pretty, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. And inside of this it became something where

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Speaker 1: you could take like a two week break sometimes and

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Speaker 1: you can kind of get yourself together and you'd sober

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Speaker 1: up for a minute, and then you get back out

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Speaker 1: into the lifestyle and it's right there, right there. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't go anywhere, and then all of a sudden, you're

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Speaker 1: starting to get recognition.

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Speaker 5: I always made a point though, about something specifically.

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Speaker 1: I never went into a studio session high, Like I

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Speaker 1: never got up on a microphone when I'm in there

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Speaker 1: to like sing the actual track and when I'm writing

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Speaker 1: the material.

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Speaker 5: I was never I was never high in sessions.

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Speaker 1: But I used to have this idea that I had

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Speaker 1: to be I used to think I have to be

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Speaker 1: messed up in order to write messed up songs or

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Speaker 1: like this really heavy subject matter and what have you.

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Speaker 3: I got to put myself in that owl.

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Speaker 1: Now, I got put myself into it because I got

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Speaker 1: to live it in order to be able to talk

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 2: Was that kind of an used to feel justified in

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Speaker 2: doing it, or more so, he felt like it was helping.

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Speaker 5: It definitely wasn't helping.

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Speaker 7: That's a combination that's called rationalization. But we are closer,

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Speaker 7: I would think than most artists and managers. I mean,

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Speaker 7: because he's more than an artist on my roster. He's

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Speaker 7: helped me. He's my partner, he's my best friend. I

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Speaker 7: love him, you know, he's my brother, he's you know,

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Speaker 7: and I don't even care how he looks at me.

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Speaker 7: Sometimes I feel like he looks at me like I'm

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Speaker 7: an older brother. Sometimes I think he looks at me

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Speaker 7: as maybe kind of a dad, you know.

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Speaker 5: Maybe I always look up to him though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, either way, either way, I was.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I had no idea he was doing that much.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say, but did you see anything?

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Speaker 1: Well he came to Los Angeles during the sound of

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Speaker 1: Madness album and saved my life.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, let's let's talk about Yeah, so there's there's

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Speaker 2: a moment here. Let's talk about that. Oh you're flying

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Speaker 2: in there. What did you see when you were Well?

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Speaker 7: What I started with was I got a call from

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Speaker 7: an incredible friend of ours and he called me. And

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Speaker 7: it wasn't like, hey, listen, man, you know we got

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Speaker 7: a little trouble here in the camp.

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Speaker 6: I need you to get down here.

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Speaker 7: He literally shrieked at me, get your ass to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 7: He said, you're guitar player ode and fell off his stool.

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Speaker 7: He said, I don't know what's going on with Brent,

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Speaker 7: but they are messed up, right, And so then I

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Speaker 7: immediately went to my wife and said, well, you know this,

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Speaker 7: I got to go. So I booked a ticket that afternoon,

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Speaker 7: flew to Los Angeles and I got there just in

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Speaker 7: time too, because you'd had that situation with the rental

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Speaker 7: car and you sideswiped like three.

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Speaker 5: Cars, three part cars.

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Speaker 1: He was going to Chris Lord Algae's studio to listen

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Speaker 1: to a mix and I hit three part cars because

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Speaker 1: I was high.

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Speaker 5: I ran, I ran a red light.

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Speaker 6: He was so high.

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Speaker 7: But yet he is so good a functioning addict, right,

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Speaker 7: He was so good with his words and always husband

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Speaker 7: that he had talked to police out of.

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Speaker 5: Uh going to jail doing what police do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, getting away with hitting three part cars. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's that's yeah.

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Speaker 1: Way like it sounds very rock and roll and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like, you know, kind of you know, cinematic in

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Speaker 1: a way.

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Speaker 5: Dude, I could have killed someone. Yeah, you know what

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Speaker 5: I mean. When I think about it now, I'm in

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Speaker 5: awe that a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of times too, that that I've been so lucky to

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Speaker 1: still be here. But you know, the fact of the

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Speaker 1: matter was that that was a real thing that happened.

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Speaker 1: And the other side of that, though, is that's when

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Speaker 1: Bill got out there, and what it was was it

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Speaker 1: was more of you know, I looked at Bill as

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Speaker 1: I felt like everybody was a narc and Bill didn't

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Speaker 1: come out there with an attitude where he was pointing

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Speaker 1: a finger at me. He was more like, Hey, I

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Speaker 1: got an idea. Let's take tomorrow off, but let's take

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Speaker 1: it off, meaning like, let's not drink, let's not do

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Speaker 1: anything like that. Let me take you out to lunch,

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Speaker 1: Let's go out to Santa Monica, we'll go shopping, or

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Speaker 1: we'll just get out, you know, what I mean, And

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Speaker 1: he just he was able to treat me in a

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Speaker 1: way where he wasn't coming out there to you know,

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Speaker 1: be angry at me per se. He was trying to

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Speaker 1: also figure out what was actually happening because.

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Speaker 5: He knew there was a lot riding on this.

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Speaker 1: And I think Bill understood that this was the best

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Speaker 1: music that a he had heard from any of the

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Speaker 1: artists on his roster.

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Speaker 7: No doubt, but but second chance.

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Speaker 5: You know, there were seven singles off a sound the Madness.

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Speaker 1: But he was also like, none of this matters if

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Speaker 1: he's dead, right, you know what I mean? So we

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Speaker 1: got to figure out how to do this in a

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Speaker 1: way where we can actually bring him to the forefront,

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Speaker 1: meaning me, and get me help and you know, understand

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Speaker 1: what's actually going on here, because you can be angry

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Speaker 1: at an addict all you want, but if you if

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Speaker 1: you choose to do it that way, you're never going

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Speaker 1: to be able to open and open their eyes.

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Speaker 5: And so he really treated me as best he could.

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Speaker 1: Understanding also too, I remember one night you said to me,

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Speaker 1: you were like, this has got to be hard, Like

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Speaker 1: you got all these people that need you to be great,

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Speaker 1: They need you.

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Speaker 5: Everyone's waiting on you to be brilliant.

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Speaker 6: It's a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 5: It's a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: And nobody had said it to me like that, because

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Speaker 1: I hadn't complained about that, but that was how I felt.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, I am not used to being

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Speaker 1: in this situation. I don't know, I had a handle.

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Speaker 2: This, and you just you're frying your nerve an. I

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Speaker 2: was just scared, right, yeah, you know, because I didn't

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Speaker 2: let anybody down.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time I was numbing not only

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Speaker 1: my body but like my mind's eye, if you will,

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Speaker 1: and then waking up with a hangover, you know, feeling

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Speaker 1: like I was ten steps back. And what he was

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Speaker 1: trying to do was say, you gotta You've got to

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Speaker 1: breathe and make a decision. I'm not saying that you

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Speaker 1: got to be one hundred percent sober, but if you

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Speaker 1: continue being as you know, messed up as you are,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to make a kid.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And was that you have to make a decision?

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Speaker 2: Was there some apprehension or reticence to be like, hey, fuck,

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Speaker 2: like I'm I understand what you're saying, but like we're

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Speaker 2: making tracks here, Like what was that interaction? Like what

287
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Speaker 2: was your response to him, and almost got about it.

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Speaker 5: We had we almost got shelved.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we did.

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Speaker 7: Oh no shit, yeah, and our guy and he wanted

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Speaker 7: to do the right thing. So when we came with

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Speaker 7: the sound of man As it was all his brilliant album,

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Speaker 7: and we played it and I watched the reaction in

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Speaker 7: the room as we always do, and I could tell

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Speaker 7: that they got it big time right. But as we

296
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Speaker 7: were walking out of a Man, I don't know whether

297
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Speaker 7: I should tell this, but I guess I'm gonna.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's a real it really happened.

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Speaker 7: So I knew all the timing was right, the touring,

300
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Speaker 7: everything was going to come together and we were going to.

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Speaker 6: Blow the band up. And it was a moment he says.

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Speaker 7: We're on the seventy second floor of the rock building

303
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Speaker 7: and he were standing outside by the window and he said, well,

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Speaker 7: that's all well and good.

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Speaker 6: We're green led. He said, I'm going to shelve the

306
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Speaker 6: album and we're going to put Brend into rehab.

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Speaker 7: And I looked at him and I said, what did

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Speaker 7: you just say?

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Speaker 6: I said, because you.

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Speaker 2: Have a two hundred city tour and you have all that, Yeah,

311
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Speaker 2: you're already in the.

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Speaker 6: Ad playing everything.

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Speaker 7: I said, hey, man, you're trying to prove your life

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Speaker 7: insurance is paid up, because I will throw you through

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Speaker 7: that fucking window.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, it's one of the most like for

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Speaker 1: me personally. I'm sitting there. You know, look, man, he

318
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Speaker 1: he cleaned me up.

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Speaker 5: This is like when he came out, he literally saved

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Speaker 5: my life. He really really did. You know.

321
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Speaker 1: He got me focused to get into New York from

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Speaker 1: la you know, put me in a really really nice suit,

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Speaker 1: cleaned me up, walked me in there.

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Speaker 5: He knew what he was up against.

325
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Speaker 1: Also, because the thing is is like people may hear

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Speaker 1: this and be like, well, that's a you know, a

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Speaker 1: manager for you. You got to understand it's not a

328
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Speaker 1: one way street. I have to be in this as well,

329
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Speaker 1: just like he has to be in it. And there's

330
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Speaker 1: other people involved.

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Speaker 5: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Like, the music business is not for everyone. And I

333
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Speaker 1: often will tell people it's called the music business industry

334
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Speaker 1: for a reason.

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Speaker 5: The word business is in the title.

336
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Speaker 1: Music's in it too, But it's a business, okay, And

337
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 1: there's people's you know, jobs, careers. Everything's on the line,

338
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Speaker 1: especially when you make an album and you have to

339
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Speaker 1: have the foresight to kind of have an instinct in

340
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Speaker 1: a crystal ball like what the next two years could

341
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: be or could not be? And again, who is a

342
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Speaker 1: legend in the industry and who is one of the

343
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Speaker 1: reasons why I'm in the music industry twenty years in

344
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Speaker 1: the game, you know. But he was in a position

345
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: where he was looking at his friend and he was

346
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Speaker 1: just like, I gotta get you.

347
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Speaker 5: I don't want you to die.

348
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Speaker 2: He's probably seen it, you know what I mean. Yeah,

349
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Speaker 2: I don't have like flashbacks of that. Yeah, he's like,

350
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 2: I don't want you to die, you know.

351
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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, also too, me and Bill are

352
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Speaker 1: talking to one another about these things and what have you.

353
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Speaker 1: And what Bill is trying to do is also as

354
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Speaker 1: my manager and you know, me as the artist.

355
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Speaker 5: He's trying to decide whether or not he believes.

356
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Speaker 1: Me when I tell him I'm not gonna let him

357
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Speaker 1: down right like, because he's like, as your manager, my

358
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Speaker 1: artist is telling me that they got it.

359
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Speaker 5: I'm going to side with my artist always, you know.

360
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Speaker 3: And you're and you're on the line too, You're out here,

361
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 3: you're vouching for.

362
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 7: This played about him too, but shoving his album wasn't

363
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Speaker 7: gonna save his life.

364
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,359
Speaker 3: May have gone the other right with him, Yeah, exactly

365
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:34,160
Speaker 3: for you.

366
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,400
Speaker 2: Hearing Bill kind of blow, I don't know, I'd be like, wow,

367
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 2: this guy really does did that help?

368
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 3: Kind of?

369
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,920
Speaker 2: It's almost like a Hollywood script, like the fact you're

370
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,159
Speaker 2: in this record room, the huge table, Riley like you

371
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 2: need to get your shit together, Like do you think

372
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 2: that would have been enough? Or was it Bill fighting

373
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Speaker 2: for you? Like what do you think was going on?

374
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 2: He's like, what was your next hour after that?

375
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 4: Yeah?

376
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, talk about that process.

377
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,400
Speaker 2: I'm I'm just curious, like in a room of executives,

378
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 2: having your manager, where you're at this critical moment you're

379
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 2: scream at someone threatened through out the window. Was that

380
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 2: something I was like, this guy really believes in me,

381
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 2: this is something? Or was that already taken care of.

382
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 2: I'm just fascinated with that.

383
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: I think another part of my brain was born, if

384
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 1: that makes any sense, Like there was another there was

385
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 1: another section that had not been realized, and with that moment,

386
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,679
Speaker 1: like there was another part of my psyche that was born,

387
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,440
Speaker 1: where all of a sudden it really became Yes, I'm

388
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 1: an artist, but I have certain people around me that

389
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 1: need me to be at all times at my highest level.

390
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 1: And so if anything, I think that he helped me

391
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Speaker 1: find another gear in my work ethic from that moment.

392
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Speaker 6: But it was by osmosis. It was organic.

393
00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 7: It wasn't like me saying well no, it wasn't very organic,

394
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 7: threatening to throw the guy out the one in by

395
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 7: the way.

396
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 6: He didn't forgive me right away.

397
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 5: I took a minute.

398
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 7: It took a couple of years, but it's okay because

399
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 7: we got it straight down. And I love the guy

400
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 7: and he loves Sprinton, you know, but I just knew

401
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,400
Speaker 7: that that wasn't the answer.

402
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 2: Right again, you were making some of the best media

403
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 2: you ever made in your life, like at kind.

404
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 3: Of the worst, at the lowest lows. It's a weird dynamic.

405
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 1: No, what I will tell you is like, and I

406
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 1: know this from firsthand experience. You know, this younger generation,

407
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, they look at it and they're like, yeah,

408
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: but you had your fun and you're telling me not

409
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: to have mine.

410
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 5: And I'm like, because I don't want you to die.

411
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like you, I mean, like your story is

412
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 2: kind of like, hey, you had this thing, and do

413
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 2: you want to be rich and famous or not?

414
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, I picked this and got it.

415
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 5: It's about being rich.

416
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 1: It's just about being being alive, and you want to

417
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: be alive.

418
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 2: But it's for for a lot of people probably listening

419
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 2: to your point, it's like it almost sound easy, like

420
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 2: oh yeah, you've got to have your wounds and your

421
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 2: scars and hahaha, now we get to laugh about it.

422
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 3: Now you're you're doing. But that's not the.

423
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: Because I also, you know, there there's also people in

424
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: my life that meant the world to me and sorry, no,

425
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 1: that's fine, they're gone. And that's the brutal part of it,

426
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 1: because I can't talk to them anymore. And I don't

427
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: mean to like just you know, rake the record here,

428
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, across the table. But that's the issue, is

429
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 1: that I don't want people to ever feel that, you know,

430
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: drug addiction should be glorified, because it's a nightmare, and

431
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: not only that, it's a nightmare for all the people

432
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: that are around it. And I know that it gets stigmatized,

433
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: and I know that, you know, we we should be

434
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 1: looking at.

435
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 5: A better way to treat addicts.

436
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,719
Speaker 1: You know, throw them in a cage doesn't necessarily create sobriety,

437
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, it creates you know, anger, frustration, and get

438
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 1: me out of here so I can get high.

439
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.

440
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: If you don't give people an understanding that hey, you're

441
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 1: gonna have to build out a different skill set to

442
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 1: handle this. Some people don't have to go to rehab.

443
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: Some people need a twelve step and because they need

444
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: that accountability. There's not a one size fits all for addiction,

445
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: right it Really there's no way of handling it because the.

446
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 2: Underlying issues are completely different for everyone. It could be

447
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 2: from you know, sexual, it could be from hereditary, could

448
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: be it's all these different things. But the one thing

449
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: it isn't as a bad person. I think that's what

450
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 2: we kind of do sometimes. Like so for example, say

451
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 2: you didn't talk that cop out of it, and then

452
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 2: you've got a DWY or DUY and then you had

453
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 2: a criminal record, you spend some time, then you lost

454
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 2: this record deal and then it went down the hill.

455
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 2: I mean that could have been a story, and that's

456
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 2: the story for a lot of people because the criminal justice.

457
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 6: Doesn't act it's for a to losive record deal. But

458
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 6: the timing would have been wrong.

459
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, would have been.

460
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 3: Like a chance on there. Yeah, you'll figure it out

461
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 3: chan you know it, but you all not.

462
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 2: I guess for just the word had people around you

463
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: to say you're you're valued and you're worth it. I

464
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: don't think a lot of people have that, and you

465
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 2: come knox was a little different than some southern towns

466
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: because it's a college town and it's a little different.

467
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 3: But I'm sure you said you have people love you.

468
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are a lot of parallel tracks for

469
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: folks back there, particularly in rural areas that were you know,

470
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 2: the opened epidemic hit so hard that didn't have that

471
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: person in their lives or gotten the criminal justice has

472
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 2: been too quickly, or didn't get to talk to some

473
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: about the foundations of their addiction and it was too late.

474
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you've had stories like that. I'm assuming you have.

475
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: Are you still dealing with that back home? Or like

476
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: what does that look like for you now kind of

477
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: posts we're not even out of the opiod addiction, but

478
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 2: you know, post that, like coming down sober, Like what

479
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: does that look like for you back in your your

480
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: hometown and your friends and family.

481
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: I Mean, the good thing about Theoxville is that Knoxville

482
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 1: takes a lot of just that city in general really

483
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: really focuses on getting people help and not necessarily you know,

484
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: throwing them in jail and what have you.

485
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 5: There's a lot of outreach there.

486
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: The big thing about that city, you know, because of

487
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: like you know, you you look at the kind of

488
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 1: the geography of like Tennessee and the Southern states, you know, Appalachia,

489
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: West Virginia. We all know what happened there with you know,

490
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: the Sacklers and all that.

491
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 5: You know, you know, I was in the midst of that.

492
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: So like when I, I mean, Michael Keaton did that

493
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: series on Hulu and I think I'm.

494
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 5: Trying that it probably one of the best.

495
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: If you wanted to see how it played out, I

496
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: would tell you to go watch that, and it is

497
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: worth watching it because they pretty much I lived that,

498
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 1: like literally lived that.

499
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

500
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: I love the focus they have on the sales aspect

501
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 2: of it. The aggressiveness, yeah, telling people and yeah to

502
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: go ahead.

503
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 5: And another thing too. You know my friend Jelly roll

504
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 5: Man when he you know, went to Washington. Shout out

505
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 5: to jail Man because.

506
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: Jelly went you know out there, you know, Senate, Congress,

507
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: everything else and made a point, you know, with his

508
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: celebrity and you know that he's really really he brings

509
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: at the forefront. I mean, you talk about people that

510
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: are necessary in the industry, man Jelly is definitely necessary

511
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: because he's really he has a lot of experience with

512
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: that as well. But you know, you've got artists now

513
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: talking about what's actually going on in these rural areas

514
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: and what's happening. But you know what needs to be

515
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: focused on too, Like if you go into those towns

516
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: even present day, you know, those towns.

517
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 5: Are still destroyed because of this, Like it.

518
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: Didn't leave some kind of wonderful way happy ending like

519
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: and so what are you going to do about that?

520
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: And and how can we you know, as a society,

521
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: you know, really go back into these areas where people

522
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: need some kind of assistance and some kind of help,

523
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: because what's awful about it is like it just leaves.

524
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: Especially the opioid you know, that epidemic is still there.

525
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: Even though they've made they've changed the recipe for oxycotton,

526
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: they've done all these things.

527
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 5: Well that's all find and good.

528
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: You still have just a wake of just heartbreak and

529
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: there there are no flowers, you know what I mean,

530
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: It's just decimated. So you have to be willing also

531
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: to be able to look at how devastating it is

532
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: in order to try to figure out a way to

533
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: bring it back to life. So is there, you know,

534
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: are we going to figure that out this afternoon. The

535
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: fact that we're talking about it is really one of

536
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: the steps to go to the forefront of that as well.

537
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: And so I think the more that you're talking about it,

538
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: the more that these areas people don't forget about them

539
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: because you know, coming out of an election year and

540
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: all these different things that are going on, everybody is

541
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: in their own world.

542
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,959
Speaker 5: But you know, drug addiction. It's not bias, you know,

543
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 5: and it.

544
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: Can quote unquote happiest people.

545
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: You know, they're they're dealing with it. Here's the clown

546
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: type of thing.

547
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the big thing that like what

548
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: I see also too right now as an artist, and

549
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: is somebody that you know has had experience with this

550
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: as well. You know, Look, I have a difference of

551
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: opinion in some regards to.

552
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 5: What I see with you know, how these new.

553
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're like test subjects or you know,

554
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of new scientific evidence about like psilocybin

555
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: and about NBMA and about marijuana and about you know,

556
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: CBD and all these different things, and there's a whole

557
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: lot of information, but sometimes I wonder, you know, is

558
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: it skewed, has it been turned around?

559
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 5: Has it like what is actually going to work for you?

560
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: And you know, when you have a dilemma in there

561
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: is for some people they're like, well that's a that's

562
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: just an excuse for me to do drugs. Well, if

563
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: there's an actual scientific study being done and there's a

564
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: clinical research on it, that's fantastic, But is that being

565
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: administered by professionals, right, as opposed to somebody that's like,

566
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: well I'm I gonna go take a god dose and

567
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: hopefully I don't jump off of a bill sing right.

568
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 5: Well no, well yeah, you know what I mean.

569
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: That's where kind of the illegality gets into it, because

570
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: I've seen it. People go on both sides, like the

571
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: people that are advocating for these types of things, and

572
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: every want to say anything negative about it. Or I

573
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: look at canvas sometimes like you're going into a smoke

574
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: shop and if you're a young kid, everything's ninety five

575
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 2: percent THC and all the it's like it's not great

576
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: and we don't have a good knowledge about like how

577
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: it impacts us, and it really is because yeah, the

578
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: one side of the advocates they don't say the negative effects,

579
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: and on the other side, it's only the negative effects.

580
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 2: And because we don't have just like an objective stand.

581
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 5: It also makes it difficult.

582
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: It's this anecdote of like, yeah, i'm rubbing in I

583
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: feel good, like when I we uh we interviewed to

584
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 2: MMA fighter and when she's saying, like my joints and

585
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: knees and hips when I rub CBD and I was

586
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 2: able to fight into my forties, Like all right, I'm

587
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: a believer.

588
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's right. That's not a people study either.

589
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: And the illegality of it is some of the problem

590
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: because we can't actually get social norms around this. With alcohol,

591
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 2: we kind of at least know, like, you know, if

592
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: you're doing a shot, it's about five ounces of wine,

593
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: it's about a beer.

594
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 7: You know.

595
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: We have no idea with cannabis or with psilocybin for

596
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: are using a treatment stance. So then you go to

597
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: different places and you start to try to self medicate

598
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: without experts, and I think that's a problem with like

599
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: where we're at as a social.

600
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 5: And I also remember too, you know.

601
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, like I love Portland, Oregon, but

602
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: the idea to legalize all drugs probably wouldn't a good idea.

603
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 3: Particularly without the type of support systems.

604
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: By the way, I believe, like don't quote me on it,

605
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: but I believe all that's been retracted.

606
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 3: They retracted it.

607
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot of it is like the people on

608
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: the ground and not potentially the policy, Like when you're

609
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: not enforcing all the quality of life stuff that comes

610
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: around with drug addiction, you know, fundraising for your drugs,

611
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: drug dealing, stealing, robbing, when you're not dealing with those things,

612
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: that's where the problems come. And it looked like a

613
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: complete divorce of law enforcement and doing this. And that's

614
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: that's not empathy either, when you see people on the

615
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: streets and things like that just doing stuff and it's

616
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: not good for your community either. Snow, I totally agree

617
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: with you, Like there has to be that balance, right.

618
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: The last time I was in Portland, Oregon, I had

619
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: a day off there. We were touring and we finished

620
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: the tour there, so I stayed an extra day. I

621
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: usually stay when we finish up a legatur I'll stay

622
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: whatever city I'm in for like twenty four or forty

623
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: eight hours. I will never forget going downtown because I

624
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: hadn't seen downtown Portland in a minute, and there was

625
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: a couple at a little child and stroller, and I

626
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: just remember being across the street and watching them kind

627
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: of go by.

628
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 5: But at the same time, I'm watching a.

629
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: Young man that looks all of maybe eighteen years old

630
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: shoot heroin in broad day, So I was like, well,

631
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: that's different, you know. So yeah, like things like that

632
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: that I just don't think that should be quote unquote normalized.

633
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: I totally agree.

634
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: I think that's because that what that kid is shooting

635
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: up is not going to enhance his life and.

636
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 5: Will probably end it. I hope that's not what happened

637
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 5: to him.

638
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: But like the fact of the matter is like that

639
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,239
Speaker 1: whole like, let's be inclusive and all that. I mean,

640
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: I understand what you're doing by trying to make everyone

641
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: not feel like that they're in a safe space, but

642
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: come back to reality.

643
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 5: You're gonna do that.

644
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: You got to remember You've got to also give certain

645
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: people the benefit of the doubt. Right they say I

646
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: need to go to rehab, That's probably a good thing

647
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: because they know they got an issue. But if somebody

648
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: is like, I'm not going to rehab, but I'm gonna

649
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: kick it, just so you have to kind of make

650
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: a decision who you believe who you don't, right, And.

651
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 2: That's the problem with a lot of our mechanisms. They

652
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: don't have that type of flexibility. Like you said, it's

653
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: a one size fits all box. Maybe you go to

654
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: some drug court that if you have to go through

655
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: the criminal justice system and then you fail once and

656
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: then it's like are now you're back in the can?

657
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: Like So that's why I agree it's so critical to

658
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: show both sides of this, like, hey, this isn't just

659
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: some thing it's going to alter you. It's going to

660
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: do X, it's going to do why we have to

661
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: do those types of things, and we just don't have.

662
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 3: That societal norm or culture or education about it.

663
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: But by the way, I'm gonna say this, like specifically

664
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: with like psychedelics, like there is some profound profound like

665
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: literal evidence if it's administered by professionals, like literally specifically

666
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: for the military, like it it's extraordinary where like they

667
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: are finding that people that have just lived in terror

668
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: from what they've seen in war, you know, they administer it.

669
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's just one session.

670
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's reversing severe PTSD, like we're talking about like

671
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: I feel better.

672
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: It's like oh no, yeah, it's crazy literally.

673
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: Like where you know, they just they understand it, like

674
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: something is something that is happening in the psilocybin and

675
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: how it's reacting, which by the way, has been around

676
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: for you know, I don't know however forever. You know,

677
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: when you see hieroglyphics and things like that and they

678
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: have you know, they'll pull back and they can actually

679
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: see these drawings, you know, in stones where.

680
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: Literally a little I was burning something.

681
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

682
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And but the thing is is that when I

683
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: see like real, you know, clinical evidence where if this

684
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: is administered professionally, this can actually save people's lives or

685
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: if anything, get them to a place where they don't

686
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: fear being alive on a daily basis because they don't

687
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: know if they're going to be subjected to flashbacks for

688
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: the rest of their lives exactly.

689
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: Or be a danger to someone else in their family.

690
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: Like it's it's themselves for themselves. Yeah, maps, We spoke

691
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: with someone there and they're the ones that do a

692
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: lot of the clinical trials, and they had like a

693
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: third face clinical trial that was going to go up

694
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: tefty approval.

695
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: The FDA just shut that down not a month ago.

696
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't agree with ridiculous.

697
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't agree with that excited the hollucygenic effects

698
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: as one of the negatives for doing It's like, well,

699
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: this is kind of the point.

700
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: There was one individual and I wish I could figure

701
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: it out off the top of my head, but like

702
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: they did it before and after, and it was kind of.

703
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 5: What you just said.

704
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: They literally went into the session and it was with

705
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: psilocybin and it was administered, you know, with two different people.

706
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: There was like a shaman and then there were two

707
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: like clinical doctors and they He was in the midst

708
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: of a of a trial on this and he went

709
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: in and he said after he came out of it

710
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: that he had not voices.

711
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 5: In his head anymore. He just had a voice say

712
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 5: let it go.

713
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: It's amazing, Like all the voices back before were like

714
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: it's never going to end.

715
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 5: You're always gonna feel like this. You know, you killed

716
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 5: all these people.

717
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: Like what people don't understand what military, like, what people

718
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: go through when they're in war.

719
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 5: You know, but it was one of.

720
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: Those things where I like, all of the voices that

721
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: I had in my head were silenced by just one

722
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: voice that said let it go. And he's like, and

723
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: I don't hear that voice either anymore. I just like

724
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: I was like, I was assured that I could let

725
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: it go, and then that guy went on and he

726
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: was like, he's like, it's.

727
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 5: Saved my life. You know, that's profound.

728
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 6: That is profound.

729
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just you have auto red tape in government

730
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: and just you know, everyone's trying to figure out what's

731
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Nobody wants to be liable,

732
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: but hey, we're here, we're alive. We should be figuring

733
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: this out.

734
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly when you see the things that we're trying

735
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: to do or just not being as effective, you know,

736
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: with drugs and things like that. And that's a lot

737
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: of the veterans where they're like, yeah, VA just gave

738
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: me a bunch of pills and I don't want to

739
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: take them. But yeah, yeah, I know we're kind of

740
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: coming a time and I want to appreciate you all.

741
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: I just had one last question. You all have been

742
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: in the music industry and together for so long. I

743
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 2: think we've all kind of learned that kind of like

744
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: love and communication and talking and having people around you,

745
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: and this of course is so critical to kind of

746
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 2: move through this. Have you seen a change in kind

747
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: of people feeling more comfortable opening up talking about this?

748
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: What have you seen change in kind of your industry?

749
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 2: And where do you think we still need to kind

750
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: of be here?

751
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 5: Where are You're?

752
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: Like?

753
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: Man, I wish I had that when I was younger.

754
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: Wish I had this to kind of help along, like

755
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: what do you what do you think that kind of

756
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: last last positive words?

757
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 5: Good at you bell, wow, no pressure, you know, I.

758
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, I just think it's up to the individual to

759
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 7: try and help where you can. And I agree with

760
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 7: Brent though. The thing I worry about is I wouldn't

761
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 7: be worried if someone in my family said I want

762
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 7: to do drugs. I'd be worried that they would get

763
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 7: the wrong drug, you know, because you don't get a

764
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 7: second chance on that. And it's so complicated. But I

765
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 7: think there's some really good aspects if it's administered by

766
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 7: a professional.

767
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: But another thing inside of all that is honestly about communication.

768
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: I mean the band that I'm in, you know, we've

769
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: been working with the AFSP for the better part of

770
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, a decade and a half, which is the

771
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. And the fact of the

772
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: matter is we tell people all the time the number

773
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: one thing that you have to focus on and work

774
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: at is remember, the worst thing you can do is

775
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: be quiet, Like you got to talk about it, and

776
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: you got to like put it out there in the open,

777
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: to have a dialogue and to understand things and the

778
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: other side of it too. I think that, you know,

779
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: if I can give anybody at least my personal experience

780
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: with all of these subject matters and what have you,

781
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: something for me personally that helped me immensely was when

782
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: I learned, you know, how important real supplementation is as

783
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: you get older, and real exercises and how it can

784
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: completely change your life. And now some people will say,

785
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: like I don't have time, Yeah you do. There's twenty

786
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: four hours in a day. You can carve out an hour,

787
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think, honestly, conversation, dialogue,

788
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, trying to focus on bettering yourself as much

789
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: as you possibly can. I mean, one thing in the

790
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: music industry that me and Bill have always been. I

791
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: would like to think that has been something that we've

792
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: always been meticulous about with people, is the gratitude of

793
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: you know what, be be genuinely happy for somebody else's success,

794
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, especially in this industry,

795
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: it's really and I mean that like and that's.

796
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 5: Really really important.

797
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: You know, we're all dealing with things, we all have families,

798
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: we all have issues, you know, and you never know

799
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: what somebody's going through, and so just be kind when

800
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: you can.

801
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 5: It takes so much more energy.

802
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: To be rude or you know, pardon my French, but

803
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: to just be an asshole.

804
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

805
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: Like, it's a much easier process in life of trying

806
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: to build out as much of a positive you know,

807
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: or a positivity the outcome and lift people up instead

808
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: of tearing them down. And that's how I would look

809
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: at at anything, like we're all on this planet together,

810
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: we should be taken care of one another. You will

811
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: have such more harmony in your life, I promise you.

812
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 2: You see people you both look healthy and happy and

813
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: like Serene, the people I've met that have your attitude

814
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: as they get older, there is a youthfulness that still

815
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 2: like glows in them and I think there's something with

816
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 2: that as well, like just being happy for other people,

817
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: not wearing that stress. Like you can see people that

818
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: are just miserable for everyone in themselves. They're just like,

819
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: you're gonna be that, but you all like you just

820
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: have a glow about you. And i'd yeah, So I

821
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: want to thank you.

822
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 6: Brent calls it the carousel.

823
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 7: When he when he gets ready to go to bed,

824
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 7: and I he thinks of all the people on the carousel,

825
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 7: that that that we all need to take care of.

826
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 6: And it's important.

827
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: Man.

828
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 6: I I love it. I love it. I love the music,

829
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 6: I love my partner, I love you know. I just

830
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 6: love it.

831
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: Man.

832
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 6: I jump out of bed in the morning. It's great.

833
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 5: Bill.

834
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: Where where can we uh send folks?

835
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: Do you have anything to plug any website or anything

836
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: coming up?

837
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 6: Well, it's our website in the.

838
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 5: Good, good entertaining, good entertainment.

839
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: You know, everything's on social media, cash them TikTok to Instagram,

840
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: to Facebook, the whole, the whole kit and kaboodle.

841
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 5: You got a bunch of artists, great artist.

842
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 7: I am at the best place of my life because

843
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 7: I I love everybody I'm working with, and I know

844
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 7: that sounds corny and bs, but it's a family.

845
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 6: What a pleasure it's been sitting in.

846
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed having this conversation absolutely much.

847
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 5: Thanks for the opportunity.

848
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 6: Thank you man, Thank you.

849
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, seriously, I had a blast.

850
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 3: Know, this is awesome.

851
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: It's really cool media and you're too, like this has

852
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: been great, this whole experience, but awesome.

853
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, so thank you so much.

854
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 2: You know, this has been like taking as much time

855
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: when you're as busy as your already have kids and ship, like, I.

856
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 5: Really appreciate pleasure. Yeah, thank you.

857
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, awesome interview. Thanks again, Uh, Brent Smith,

858
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: Bill mccafey.

859
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 3: It really was like a real.

860
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: Raw and open discussion about depression and mental health and

861
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 2: addiction and all these things and the cries for help,

862
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's just I commend people that are at

863
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 2: that level, particularly you know, in that time period to

864
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 2: talk about it that way. You know, it's pretty brave

865
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: theme and he was very raw about it, and you know,

866
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: they were trying to say, like, he's got to go

867
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: to rehab right now, and the people that are closest

868
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: to him, you know, and Bill were just saying it

869
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: probably would have been the worst thing for him at

870
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: that point, and for some people would be the best

871
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: thing for them at that point, and for others it's

872
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: just you got to meet people, and there's not this

873
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: one size fits all approach. I mean, I know working

874
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 2: in the criminal justice when I was an attorney and

875
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: we had criminal defendants at our law firm, there was

876
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: often times we would recommend do not take this rehab,

877
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: do not take this probation. You should just do the

878
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: time in jail and try to get outside help when

879
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: you get out, right, because you are going to fail

880
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: and then they're going to send you to prison for longer.

881
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 3: That is not a system that's working when we're saying you.

882
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: Need help and the best approach is for you to

883
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: go to jail so we can figure it out on

884
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: the back end. Happens every single day in this country

885
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: in every single courthouse. I guarantee you ask any criminal

886
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: defense attorney. So it's that sort of stuff where we

887
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 2: don't have that, but we almost don't have that in society.

888
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: It's already hard enough if like.

889
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: People just want to push it, and I get it,

890
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: and I think some I just wanted to touch on

891
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: that kind of like made me think a little bit

892
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: more and it's kind of question that, you know, because

893
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: Brent's you know, completely clean now, and you know, we

894
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: started talking about psilocybin and some of the medical benefits

895
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: that can happen from PTSD mental health and actually treating

896
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: you know, addiction for opiates and things like that, helping

897
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: with withdrawals and and you know, kind of suppressing the

898
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 2: need for it and craving, and it must be really difficult,

899
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 2: and you could hear the skepticism and it's rightful from

900
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: someone that you know, substances were the thing that we're

901
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: getting them out, and you know, the pathway through was sobriety,

902
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: and so to say like the solution is also something like,

903
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: I get his skepticism, and so I had never thought

904
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: about it that way. So that was it was good

905
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: to hear that from a different perspective.

906
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 4: And so yeah, yeah, it's probably hard to hear when

907
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 4: you know you've gotten clean, like oh, why didn't you

908
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 4: try drug? Yeah, why didn't you try more drug?

909
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 2: You know, he's open to and I think that's what

910
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: we all just need to say and see is just

911
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: let's be open to this and just be you know,

912
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: let's be honest. Let's just be honest about what we're

913
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: talking about. So again, Yeah, Bill Brent, amazing.

914
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 5: I'm Greg Lyve.

915
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: This is the War on drugs.

916
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 2: The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for

917
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 2: Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company

918
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams

919
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: with proven change makers to co create solutions to some

920
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 2: of the most pressing.

921
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 3: Issues in our country, including.

922
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: Criminal justice, reform, addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech,

923
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: and ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Stand

924
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: Together Music dot org.

925
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: Be sure to follow Lava for.

926
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: Good on Instagram, Facebook and threads at Law for Good.

927
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: You can follow Clayton English on Instagram, n X at

928
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: Clayton English, and you can follow Craig Laude on Instagram

929
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: and on X at Greg Lott. Executive producers Jason Flamm,

930
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stenecker,

931
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: Zak Huffman and Nick Stump. Post production by ten ten,

932
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: Audio talent booking by Dan Resnik. Rez Entertainment Head of

933
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 2: Marketing and Operations, Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media Director, Ismadi Gudarama,

934
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: social media Manager, Sarah Gibbons and art director Andrew Nelson.