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Speaker 1: All right, we're back with Andy Cosko and the Baltimore Banner.

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Speaker 1: Big news out of Orioles Land this morning. Handy positive

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Speaker 1: news which has been a little rare in Baltimore this year.

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Speaker 1: A big extension for their young catcher who has been

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Speaker 1: in the big leagues. How many days? Right, we're not

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Speaker 1: even at weeks when it comes to to Sam Pasio, right,

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Speaker 1: I know, can't check that watch gratcy how he's been

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Speaker 1: days in the big leagues. Signs a big extension. Tell

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Speaker 1: us more about how important this is for an organization

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Speaker 1: that has been unable to sign all of their young

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Speaker 1: core up until this point. And I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if we call the SiO part of that young core

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Speaker 1: because like I said, he literally got called up. Feels

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Speaker 1: like yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got caught up on Sunday, and here we

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Speaker 2: are Friday, less than a week later. He has an

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Speaker 2: eight year, sixty seven million dollar contract just signed, deals

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Speaker 2: being finalized as we speak. What's interesting, I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: I would find it hard to believe that Baltimore didn't

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Speaker 2: at least attempt with other players, you know, the young core,

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Speaker 2: be it Jackson, Holliday, Gunner, Henderson, Atlie Rushman, Jordan Westberk,

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Speaker 2: those guys. I'm sure there were attempts. They got it

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Speaker 2: done with Bassio though, and the I mean just from

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Speaker 2: a here. I'll start first with the international concept of

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Speaker 2: you know, when Michaelllias arrived in twenty nineteen, there really

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Speaker 2: was not an international presence for Baltimore, and he and

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Speaker 2: Kobe Perez have really built that international presence with the

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Speaker 2: Dominican Academy. That has been a lot of money has

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Speaker 2: gone into that. They're starting to develop, you know, prospects

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Speaker 2: out of that. And Samuel Pasio is the first one

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Speaker 2: that really gets the shine, you know, gets to reach

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Speaker 2: the major leagues. And here he is with a big

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Speaker 2: contract that we say eight years. Of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: part of that will be he's you know, pre arb

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Speaker 2: for three years. He has three arbitration years bought out,

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Speaker 2: two years of free agency bought out, plus a club

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Speaker 2: option for twenty thirty four. So technically, if they pick

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Speaker 2: up the option, it would be three years beyond what

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Speaker 2: he otherwise would be under team control. But this is

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Speaker 2: a statement from an ownership group that took over two

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Speaker 2: years ago and has not had a flashy signing of

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Speaker 2: this caliber and It is also the first time general

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Speaker 2: manager Michael Oas has extended one of these young stars.

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Speaker 2: It's the first it's pipe since Adam Jones in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 2: So think about that.

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Speaker 3: New ownership definitely making a splash here. But before we

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Speaker 3: get into that, it also shows that Major League Baseball

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Speaker 3: really doesn't care about sixty eight million dollars like a

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Speaker 3: team that is supposedly strapped for cash, but you know,

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Speaker 3: they raised their payroll by a lot this year through

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Speaker 3: arbitration and a few signings that have gone awry. Sixty

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Speaker 3: eight million dollars is not that much because you just

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Speaker 3: never know with a prospect.

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Speaker 2: Am I right, yeah, you're correct. I mean, this is

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Speaker 2: seems like a pretty team friendly deal. I mean not

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Speaker 2: saying it's a bad deal for Samuel Visio. It's the

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Speaker 2: it's the largest pre arbitration extension for a catcher in

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Speaker 2: Major League history. So it is a good deal for Besio.

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Speaker 2: And it has performance escalators via awards and the number

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Speaker 2: of innings catch cot excuse me that it goes up

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Speaker 2: to eighty eight point five max value is what we're hearing.

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Speaker 2: So it's a good deal for besioh It's a good deal.

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Speaker 2: For the Oriels, because you know it's again it's if

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Speaker 2: it doesn't work out, it's not going to hamstring a club.

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Speaker 2: If it does work out, both basio gets you know,

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Speaker 2: more money than the otherwise would have through the first

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Speaker 2: six years of team controlled most likely. And then Baltimore

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Speaker 2: knows exactly what they're going to be paying a centerpiece

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Speaker 2: of their lineup, be it at first base, DH or

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Speaker 2: catcher for eight years now.

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Speaker 3: And before we get into how it affects his teammates

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Speaker 3: or comparisons, there any idea if there were other much

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Speaker 3: lower offers earlier this season, because it's not like this

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Speaker 3: didn't happen since Sunday. Like if you give everybody kind

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Speaker 3: of the you know, these these contract talks are happening,

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Speaker 3: and he passed, Oh he passed that automatic window where

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Speaker 3: he could still get he could still become Rookie of

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Speaker 3: the Year next year. How much of these talks were

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Speaker 3: going on in the minor leagues while he was hitting

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Speaker 3: I think twenty three homers in Norfolk and you're sitting

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Speaker 3: there going, well, hey, you know, we'll hold this over you.

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Speaker 3: You sign this, we'll call you up. Oh wait, no,

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Speaker 3: teams don't do that, Andy so now all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden it gets put out there and it's the largest

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Speaker 3: contract because first things first, they didn't offer the largest contract.

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Speaker 3: And Samuel goes, oh, okay, cool, there's a negotiation in

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Speaker 3: all this.

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Speaker 2: Oh, naturally, naturally is a negotiation. I don't know the

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Speaker 2: exact details of that. We do know that Scott Boris

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Speaker 2: two years ago said that he gets calls just about

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Speaker 2: every day about Jackson Holliday and Gunnar Henderson. So this

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Speaker 2: is not something you know, Michael Layas, the Orioles GM

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Speaker 2: has you know, always been tight lipped for money, you know,

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Speaker 2: for most things, but especially when it comes to extension talks.

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Speaker 2: He always says it's not not really worth bringing it

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Speaker 2: up in a public setting. So I wouldn't be shocked

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Speaker 2: obviously if this was a massive back and forth for

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Speaker 2: a while, you know, you could definitely, But this seems

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Speaker 2: like a deal that definitely Besil was comfortable with, the

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Speaker 2: Orioles are comfortable with it. It's probably a case where

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Speaker 2: you know, they have attempted with other players at the

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Speaker 2: same time, those deals just haven't gotten done for a

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Speaker 2: variety of reasons. I think you can't discount the fact

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Speaker 2: that Ali Rushman signing bonus was eight point one nine million,

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Speaker 2: I believe or no, that was Jackson Holidays. I think

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Speaker 2: think Adlee's was eight million, so they get You know,

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Speaker 2: as a drafted player, you do get a pretty large

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Speaker 2: signing bonus, especially when you're a one to one right

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Speaker 2: out of college or high school. And in Jackson Holiday's case,

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Speaker 2: for Bosio's a one point three million dollars signing bonus

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Speaker 2: when he was sixteen, so this guarantees him more than

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Speaker 2: he otherwise would have, which I think plays a role.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this international signee is maybe more willing to

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Speaker 2: sign earlier than somebody that has already been paid and

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Speaker 2: hopefully has a good money people that know how to

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Speaker 2: invest that.

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Speaker 3: FT fans, you want to have confidence when you go

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Speaker 3: out in public. Absolutely, we can't all wear a backwards

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Speaker 3: hat like me. But you can get some true classic

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Speaker 3: fit shirts. It almost looks like, oh wow, this shirt

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Speaker 3: look a little jack.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying, and Krats, you are jacked and you

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Speaker 4: The colors are fantastic. They've sold over twenty five million

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Speaker 4: win the feel, the tailored look, the price. We all

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Speaker 4: wear True Classic on FT. I mean Cam mabn literally

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Speaker 4: can't say enough about them too. Next time we have

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Speaker 4: True Classic dot Com slash fo u l Andy.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Rutchman, where does this leave his future? Because

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Speaker 1: it very much seemed like, you know, he probably wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to be part of the future because they haven't

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Speaker 1: been able to extend him. He's back on the injured

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Speaker 1: list again. He struggled with injuries this year. Last year

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Speaker 1: he was in my mind, I don't know if you agreed,

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Speaker 1: that's probably the most disappointing player, especially after about the

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Speaker 1: midway through the CEA. Do you think Eric and I

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Speaker 1: were talking about this before the show started. They could

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Speaker 1: have had Bobby Wood Junior at that one spot, Like,

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Speaker 1: are they going to ultimately look back at this and

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Speaker 1: say he was good but not great? I think about

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Speaker 1: Matt Reiders and the hype that preceded him in Baltimore

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Speaker 1: and how he was good but never as good as

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Speaker 1: he was supposed to be. Are we going to be

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Speaker 1: saying that about Adley? You think maybe in ten years

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see. The injuries this year have really hampered

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Speaker 2: his ability to prove that twenty twenty four was an anomaly.

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Speaker 2: You know. Here he's on the injured list with another

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Speaker 2: oblique strain. First was a right of blaque. Now it

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Speaker 2: is a left oblique, so not the same not the

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Speaker 2: same oblique. But yeah, this Adley is a great defensive catcher.

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Speaker 2: I know the metrics to begin this year weren't great,

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Speaker 2: but he has elevated his catching ability of late and

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Speaker 2: he has he's a good game caller. So I still

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Speaker 2: view in the long run Adley as the number one catcher,

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Speaker 2: at least through twenty twenty seven. When he's under you know,

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Speaker 2: team control through twenty twenty seven. He could mix into

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Speaker 2: the first base conversation. He could be you know DH also,

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Speaker 2: But when you look at just how this, you know

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Speaker 2: the breakdown basically, at playing time you need two catchers,

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Speaker 2: and Basil can play first base and also DH so

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Speaker 2: I think it'll be a little bit of a rotation

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Speaker 2: between those positions for all of them. Add in Kobe

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Speaker 2: Mayo at that first base DH option. It remains to

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Speaker 2: be seen what Ryan Malcastle's long term future in Baltimore

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Speaker 2: would be. As a twenty eight year old. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of funny to imagine him as you know, the veteran,

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Speaker 2: the longest tenured I believe the longest tenured Oriel at

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Speaker 2: this point now that Mullins has gone.

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Speaker 3: So yes, this is.

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Speaker 2: A little bit of a eye opener for Adley Rushman.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to offload him immediately.

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Speaker 2: He's still under team control. He's still a good catching option,

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Speaker 2: and I imagine in that at least for the immediate future,

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Speaker 2: probably through twenty twenty seven, he will be in the mix.

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Speaker 2: But we'll find out. I mean, this does it's probably

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a eye opener for some of

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Speaker 2: the longer tenured, you know, young guys, be it Gunner

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Speaker 2: or Jordan Westburg or Addlie Rushman, Jackson Holliday of like, wow,

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Speaker 2: you know this guy that just turned twenty one a

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Speaker 2: week ago, debuted less than a week ago, is now

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Speaker 2: going to be here for the long term. So it's

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Speaker 2: definitely a statement of intent for Baltimore, and maybe maybe

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Speaker 2: it applies a little bit of pressure on other guys

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Speaker 2: in their agencies to try to work out a deal

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Speaker 2: that is a little bit more team friendly. But we'll

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Speaker 2: find out.

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Speaker 3: Never to think I would hear somebody come on and

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Speaker 3: say Adlie Rushman's a defensive specialist now who's working on

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Speaker 3: his But I think there's still more in there. I

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Speaker 3: think there's obviously I'm high on Ada Ruchman. But on

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Speaker 3: the flip side, you talked about defense. I looked up

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Speaker 3: some of the defensive metrics in the minor leagues, some

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Speaker 3: of how he moves behind the dish watching his big

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Speaker 3: league game yesterday behind the dish, are they worried about

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Speaker 3: how he moves and how he's going to age behind

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Speaker 3: the plate? He is a monster. And you think about

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of big catchers in the big leagues.

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Speaker 3: People think catchers are, you know, more of the Alejandro

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Speaker 3: Kirk type of build, and really, catchers are in the

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Speaker 3: big leagues are tall guys. You have Salvado Perez in Baltimore,

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Speaker 3: you had Matt Wieders. Is there a fear of how

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Speaker 3: he's going to age back there as far as how

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Speaker 3: he moves around kind of stiff for a twenty one year.

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Speaker 2: Old, Yeah, I think totally. Interim manager Tony Mangelino the

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Speaker 2: other day, you know, when the style was caught up, said,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's a critical point in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: the remainders of season to see how basio number one

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Speaker 2: calls a game. That's a big There's not really an

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Speaker 2: advanced metric for how somebody calls a game with the

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Speaker 2: pitcher and navigates that his blocking seems okay, big body.

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Speaker 2: We have seen a couple balls get away hit a

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Speaker 2: pass ball on Monday in Boston, and then there was

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Speaker 2: one last night that bounced in the dirt and wound

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Speaker 2: up in the camera. Well, that maybe could have been

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Speaker 2: a little bit better of a block. His framing something

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Speaker 2: that's going to need to improve. I think the biggest thing,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was never the bat that was a question.

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Speaker 2: The biggest thing was how is Samuel pisiout offensively? And

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Speaker 2: he's twenty one and has actually caught that many games,

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Speaker 2: you know, all things considered, because they had him at

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Speaker 2: DH frequently, they had him working at first base so

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Speaker 2: long term, and Manzolino mentioned this the other day. I

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Speaker 2: started to get back to the roundabout way. He said

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Speaker 2: that he really likes how he how Basio projects as

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Speaker 2: a first basement does not mean that he won't catch.

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Speaker 2: He just might be more in that number two catcher

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Speaker 2: mix for the next few years, to see how he

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Speaker 2: develops there and if they want to keep wear and tear,

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Speaker 2: you know, off of a slugger, you know, maybe first

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Speaker 2: base DH is eventually the home furbosile.

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Speaker 1: Andy, I want to ask you more of a bigger

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Speaker 1: picture question. While we got you, obviously, this was not

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Speaker 1: the season the Orioles wanted. They were sellers of the deadline.

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Speaker 1: How do you assess this club now moving forward? In

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Speaker 1: your mind? Are they going to go out and finally

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Speaker 1: spend money this winter and kind of go for it

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Speaker 1: heading into next season? Are they going to kind of

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Speaker 1: play it as oh bad luck, our model said, we

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Speaker 1: should have been better and improve on the edges. Do

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Speaker 1: you think this actually kind of sparked a lot of

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Speaker 1: change in the front office watching kind of their plan

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Speaker 1: blow up a little bit?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it has to. I mean, this was

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Speaker 2: a plan that completely blew up. It is sure the

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Speaker 2: model probably didn't predict sixteen and thirty four. Don't think

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Speaker 2: they would have necessarily believed that, you know, going into

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Speaker 2: the season as any possibility of happening. But it did happen,

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Speaker 2: and the injuries were obviously on the extreme side with

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Speaker 2: the number of pitchers that were injured. But they didn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily plan for losing. I mean, they knew that Tyler

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Speaker 2: Wells and Kyle Bradish were not going to be part

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Speaker 2: of the mix. Charlie Morton had a good rebound and

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Speaker 2: became a trade deadline guy, but was historically poor for

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Speaker 2: the first six five or six starts of his time

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Speaker 2: in Baltimore, So those were not big time moves. I

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Speaker 2: think they must make big time moves this offseason, particularly

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Speaker 2: rebuilding a bullpen. This is a bullpen that you're now

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Speaker 2: without Felix Batista, their closer for all of twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 2: pretty much. He underwent surgery for a torn labram and

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Speaker 2: torn rotator cuff and is going to be out for

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Speaker 2: at least twelve months. So you're trying to replace an

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Speaker 2: all star closer from two years before. That's not going

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Speaker 2: to be easy. There's not really anybody in their farm

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Speaker 2: system that looks like an elite back end reliever at

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Speaker 2: this point, so probably looking at adding four relievers, one

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Speaker 2: or two starters, one of which probably has to be

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Speaker 2: a top of land guy. Even with Trevor Rodgers looking

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Speaker 2: like potentially an ACE, I don't know if you can,

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Speaker 2: you know, necessarily write that in in stone saying like

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Speaker 2: Trevor Rodgers is the ACE next year, you might want

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Speaker 2: a little bit of an insurance policy to make sure

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Speaker 2: there's not regression toward the mean. So, understanding all of that,

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Speaker 2: I do believe that that Michael Laias has you know,

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Speaker 2: he's said previously that they are constantly taking stock in

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Speaker 2: what went wrong, how they can improve things of that nature.

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Speaker 2: And I think they'll look at look in the mirror

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Speaker 2: pretty hard and say, you know, wow, we did not

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Speaker 2: anticipate the worst possible outcome. Therefore, in the future we

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Speaker 2: have to be better prepared to handle when the horse

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Speaker 2: possible outcome inevitably comes get because Injrews, haven't we've seen

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Speaker 2: with a lot of pitchers. I mean, you have Grays

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Speaker 2: and Riguez on the show all the time, and he

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Speaker 2: didn't throw a pitch this year, a meaningful pitch. So

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Speaker 2: they obviously put a lot of stock into him being

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Speaker 2: a big part of twenty twenty five. So how they

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Speaker 2: go about this offseason is going to be incredibly telling.

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Speaker 2: And maybe this is a sign that the front office

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Speaker 2: is going to flex the financial muscle a little bit

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Speaker 2: more of the ownership group.

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Speaker 3: I think the ownership group has made it very clear

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Speaker 3: that they're going to spend money. I think it's seventy

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Speaker 3: million that they spent this offseason, and now they committed

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Speaker 3: another seventy to one player, a young player which they

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Speaker 3: haven't done. Is Mike Elias the right guy? Is this

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Speaker 3: ownership able not saying fire him because look, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think he's built some things, but I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of the things that he does and sits there

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Speaker 3: is how can we build up all these prospects? Because

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Speaker 3: they could have traded some of these guys for big

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Speaker 3: pieces when they were a wildcard team, when they were

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Speaker 3: a division winning team, and he hasn't. And that doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean he needs to get fired. I think too many

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Speaker 3: times we fire people. Maybe more so, hey lean into

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Speaker 3: people who have made good offseason acquisitions, because what you

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Speaker 3: said is super crazy to get two good starters, one

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Speaker 3: of them be an elite and would you say four

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Speaker 3: bullpen pieces. It's like, that's that's massive, that's a massive haul.

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Speaker 3: And you're saying you need somebody to step in because

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Speaker 3: I don't think you near Cano is that closer that

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Speaker 3: they need to step in. So you need to pick

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Speaker 3: up a big time closer. Robert Suarez is gonna cost

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Speaker 3: one hundred million dollars and you just don't see Michael

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Speaker 3: Lias making pulling these triggers in these moments. Is it

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Speaker 3: possible that someone else could be brought into maybe help

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Speaker 3: maybe supplement him in those decisions or would that be

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Speaker 3: totally undercutting him.

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Speaker 2: I think that they'd be undercutting michaelas. You know, when

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Speaker 2: at least when David Rubinstein to ownership of this organization,

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Speaker 2: he really emphasized how he believes in in the vision

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Speaker 2: of Michael Oas. He emphasized that, you know, part of

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Speaker 2: the reason this team is was on the up when

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Speaker 2: he acquired it was because of the general manager, and

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Speaker 2: he is. David has been very clear that he's not

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Speaker 2: a Steve Cohen type in New York. He's not going

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Speaker 2: to you know, basically insist upon signing a certain player

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Speaker 2: or take take conversations into you know, on his own

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Speaker 2: to to go out and sign somebody. He is giving

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Speaker 2: Michael oas the freedom to do as as he sees best,

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Speaker 2: for better or for worse. It's probably not prudent for

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Speaker 2: me to to to say exactly, you know, to answer

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Speaker 2: the first part of the question of if you know

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Speaker 2: he should, if Michael is the right guy. I do

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Speaker 2: think he has built certain aspects of this team really well.

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Speaker 2: The next step of it, though, is winning at the

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Speaker 2: major league level. They you know, did it in twenty

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Speaker 2: you know three with one hundred one wins, but they

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Speaker 2: have yet to win a postseason game. So that is

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Speaker 2: the next step. And if they don't bridge that gap

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six and and prove that they can

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Speaker 2: be a postseason team, I think there's there's bigger questions

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Speaker 2: as to whether Mike is the guy to lead this

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Speaker 2: organization from a rebuild into you know, basically a Jugger

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Speaker 2: or not. And as you said, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that entire wish list is going to be possible. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that is a heck of a heck of a deal,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you might want to look at you know,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of thinking, like you know, Alex Bregman

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Speaker 2: opts out, you know, is that somebody you look at,

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Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber, is that somebody you look out, you look

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Speaker 2: at to add to the lineup, a veteran presence in

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Speaker 2: the lineup. That would cost a lot of money too.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about, you know, a massive off season that

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Speaker 2: it might require more trades to get some of the pitching, especially,

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Speaker 2: and to do that, it would require Mike being willing

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Speaker 2: to part with some of the higher rated prospects that

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Speaker 2: he you know, has yet to part with, at least

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Speaker 2: you know, we've seen We've seen you know, Kyle Stowers

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Speaker 2: and Conna Norby for Trevor Rodgers, which it didn't start

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Speaker 2: well but but now it has. And you know, you've

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Speaker 2: seen the Corbin Burns deal that included deal all enjoy Ortiz.

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Speaker 2: You know, those in hindsight look pretty pretty good deals.

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Speaker 2: If he can swing something like that, especially for a

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Speaker 2: starter under team control, that would be a great way

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Speaker 2: to begin the off season rather than having to go

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Speaker 2: out and get somebody on a free agency deal. We'll see,

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Speaker 2: but it's a it's a massive off season for Mike.

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Speaker 2: I imagine he will have the opportunity to resurrect what was

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Speaker 2: a disappointing twenty twenty five. We'll see what twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: six and beyond mean for this team and obviously Mike

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Speaker 2: at the helmet it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Andy. Check out his work in

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Speaker 1: Baltimore banner. I'm a subscriber. You guys do do awesome work.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate having you on