WEBVTT - Living in the Present featuring Gloria Steinem 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:14.080 How many things are different since we met, since before 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.799 the pandemic, how my life has changed, and how a 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.920 lot of people's life, and how things that you didn't 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:25.880 realize were so important really the important things, right. It's 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.520 not just your career, and it's not just you know, 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.080 how you show up at work. It's just it's really 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.000 the words that come out of your mouth and how 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:42.239 you live your life. Guys are nervous. There's nothing to 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.159 be nervous about. You might be nervous. I have no 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.040 idea what and how this is gonna work, but that's 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.680 how I do things. I know. That's what I love 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.519 about you. It's gonna be awesome. It will be awesome. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.680 And let's just remember why we are doing this together, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.160 because I asked you to. I'm psyched that you're going 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.240 to be doing this with me. I have no idea how. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.440 I know you're someone that likes to know exactly how, when, where, 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.160 and why. So I think we'll be a good will 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.160 be a good balance to each other. I think you're 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.920 exactly right. I think there's a part of me that 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.080 loves the idea of winging it, and then there's a 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.440 part of me that's like I need to research and 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.280 know the formula and know exactly what questions I need 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.280 to ask. So it's really a great exercise for me. Also, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.039 just like jumping off without a parachute and saying, you 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.080 know what, it's gonna be great no matter what. Honestly, 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.520 I'm even embarrassed to say this. We've been friends for 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.600 how many years? I think eight? Wow? I know I 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.039 time it based on Zia, how old she is. Everything 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.240 in my life is now clock to how old my 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.360 child is. So I think we have known each other 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.319 since before I left Google. We met each other when 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.640 I was asked to come in and speak to the 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.800 team at Google about entrepreneurship or whatever. It was women's 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:56.000 empowerment and you were the head of legal. I always 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:57.720 say that, but I know there was an official title. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.280 I appreciate the promotion you give me every time we talk, 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.320 so I I feel I feel loath to correct you, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.320 but I was. Yeah, I was a senior attorney at 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.799 Google at the time when we met, and I came 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.600 in because lunch, I mean, you know, lunch at Google 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.160 is like nothing else, just you know, it was so 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.440 cool and I was coming from you know, this corporate 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.520 ish office and I just thought it was so cool. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.520 And and after the talk, you came up to me 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.880 and you said, will you be my mentor? And I 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.840 looked at you, like really, and I said, okay, but 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.040 everyone listening, don't ever ask me again because I had 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.800 done it the second left in my dance card. But 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.560 and that's how we became friends. And then we probably 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.360 met for breakfast for lunch. And then when my son 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:46.600 graduated Stanford and was looking for work, I said, go 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.120 meet my friend, just talk. And you know, your kids 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.960 are always reluctant to take your advice, and I'm you know, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:56.840 and you guys hit it off and you helped him 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.320 land his first job. What a great kid. And I 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.560 just got marry and he just got married. It's like, 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.480 you know, things just go so fast, which takes me 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.040 back to why I wanted to do this podcast. How 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.440 many things are different since we met, since before the pandemic, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.520 how my life has changed, and how a lot of 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.040 people's lives and and how things that you didn't realize 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.799 were so important are really the important things. It's not 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.480 just your career, and it's not just you know, how 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.960 you show up at work. It's just it's really the 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.840 words that come out of your mouth and how you 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.080 live your life A hundred percent agree. I think when 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.480 we first talked about what this might look like and 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.800 what we want to talk about, what would we both 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.600 be interested in, These are the things that kept coming up. 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.400 And it really it kind of dubtails back to my 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.760 book and the conclusion that my Ted talk, which is 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.080 that at the end of the day, what people really 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.680 were focused on, their deepest desires were for three simple things, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.840 which was health, happiness, and love, and that was it. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.880 And so it just that those themes sort of proved 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.280 true again and again and over the course of the 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.840 pandemic and on the other well when on the other side, 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.880 but sort of in the thick of this pandemic um 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.560 it feels like we just know that that's so true. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.520 And anybody who had a doubt that those were the 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.640 things that really matter, they don't have those doubts anymore. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.039 So it's going to be really interesting, I think, to 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.359 talk to some of these incredible people that we both 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.440 have a pleasure the honor of knowing, and to talk 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.760 about the important stuff. So I guess it's time to 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.160 get started with our very first guest on the important 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.160 things we're talking to the one and only Glorious Dinham. 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.120 That's right. I was thinking about how cool it is 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.159 it I actually know Glorious Dinham and I was able 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:42.840 to ask her to be on the podcast and she 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.680 actually said yes. I mean, how did you meet her? 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.840 So my brief history with her. I actually first time 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.440 I met her was at the White House. I was 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.400 invited by Michelle Obama for wait, I'm sorry, yeah, let's 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.520 just just pause here, like casually better the White House. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.440 Invited by Michelle Obama. I met her at the White House. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.080 Our lives are very different. Um No, it was an 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.720 amazing time in my life. I got invited to the 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.080 White House a lot for a lot of women's empowerment 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.599 and all these different things, but this particular time it 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.640 was quite something. There was a luncheon and they were like, 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.400 I can't even tell you how many amazing, powerful, cool 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.000 women from from acting to just everything, you know, I mean, 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.400 and Richard's daughter was there, Cecil like all these cool people, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.600 and Glorious Steinham was there and I went over and 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.200 you know, Rheese Witherspoon was there. People were just taking 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.560 pictures with each other, fan girling each other and so 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.000 it was okay. So I went up introduced myself to 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.880 Gloria and she couldn't have been nicer. We took pictures 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.960 and it was really cool. So, you know, I had 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.600 those pictures and every year during Women's Empowerment Month, I 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.480 could put up the picture and be like, yeah, thanks Gloria. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.839 And for some reason, out of the blue, I get 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.880 a call one day from Jerry Leborne and asked if 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.640 I would introduce Glorious Steinham at Rutgers. They were making 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.480 her the Glorious Dynham chair of this department, and I 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.920 was like, are you kidding me? I'm going to introduce now. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.080 I was a wreck. So I did. I introduced her. 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.320 She got up afterwards and said some of the nicest, 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.479 kindest things about me, not to me, and so that 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.760 started as a mini I won't say friendship, because you know, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:24.799 I don't just call her and say how's your day, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.000 but it started, you know, the first of a few 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.800 other things. Well, I'm really excited about this conversation. I 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.960 have had the pleasure of meeting her twice, but more 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.320 like me being one of the young women who ran 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.880 up to her and just told her how much she 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.200 meant to me and all her writing and just how 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.560 inspiring she was to me and to my child. I 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.960 had to tell you my daughter, Zio, you know, who's 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.040 only eleven. Now, she's really unimpressed. She's like very at 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.680 that phase where she's unimpressed with everything I do, Like 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.400 everything annoys her, everything's an eye roll. And when I 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.960 told her that we were talking to Glorious Dinham, she 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.520 stopped in her tracks and she looked, I mean, WHOA. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.040 And I was like, okay, I did all right. At 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.160 least she knows Gloria Steinubz. I think she was actually 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.040 impressed with her mother for a very short moment. So 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.360 I will take those wins where I can get them. Well, 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.920 let's I'm ready to I'm ready to talk to her. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:25.720 Let's see what happens. Let's do it. I think of 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.360 you as I do of Yogi Berra. Yogi was a 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.840 dear friend of Nobody's ever said that to me, but 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.000 it doesn't make any sense, but because he was like 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.280 the top of this hero guy, and honestly he was 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.560 a role model for me. I used to watch him 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:41.520 deal with the people that went up to him and 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.720 say hello and tell their stories, and he was so 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.560 kind and nice but kept walking by the way, and 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.560 I just I learned a lot. And you are the 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.960 top of the heap, Gloria on every you, Yeah, name 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.400 one person on top of your heap. Well, first of all, 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.480 we don't have a pyramid. We have an army. Uh huh, 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.760 that's why you're you, and I mean, okay, right, it's 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.360 not about a hierarchy. Look at all the things you've 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.400 done that I could not possibly do. I mean, like eyeliner, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.880 I've never even had a job unless created a company. Ah. Well, 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.720 I should also introduce you to my co host and Julie, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.640 who is my co host on this podcast, and it's 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.800 called The Important Things because honestly, things that used to 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.440 matter don't matter as much, partly because I'm getting older 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.120 and more comfortable and confident, and also because of the pandemic. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.640 It just kind of gave us a new way. So 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.560 that is the podcast. Laura. It's such an honor to 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.280 meet you again. I have met you once because I 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.760 was one of those women who came running up to 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.319 you after seeing you speak. I've actually done this to 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.679 you twice, so apologies for both times. But you were 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.559 the most gracious, incredible person and so it's truly I'm 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.560 trying really hard not to found girl and geek out 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.600 right now, but it's really really humbling to be here 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.400 in your company. No no, no fend girls allowed. But 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.040 where where were we? Do you remember? It was two 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.760 different things. One was right after the sixteen UM election 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.760 and you spoke. You and Annie Leeviowitz did an event 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.839 at the Babil Correctional Center for my daughter's school. Oh yes, yeah, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.480 the photography And it was incredible. It was her photography exhibit, 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.320 yes exactly, and you were with her and we were 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.920 in the circle and everybody gathered first and I sat 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.880 down in a random chair and the two of you 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.520 ended up sitting right next to me, and I was 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.800 really losing it. I was really trying to be like, hey, Annie, 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.439 it's cool whatever, but I did not feel cool inside UM. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.120 And then the second time was actually at the play, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.760 at your play. It was a random like Tuesday, and 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:45.760 you happened to be there the same night. I was 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.200 sitting next to Dan when Furstenburg, and across from us 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.480 was you and Hillary Clinton, and that was it was 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.640 like what is happening? Like all three UM icons of 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.160 New York. Well know you you met you picked an 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.440 extraordinary night. It was incredible, right, yeah, And it was 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.280 like really just aroundom. I think it was like a Tuesday, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.240 like a snowy Tuesday. I don't even know what happened, 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.600 but it was. It was incredible. And so Diane brought 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.840 me over to meet you and Hillary and that was 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.120 another Yeah. So I've had these two wonderful brushes with you, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.280 and so it's an honor to be here with you. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.920 Thank you for doing this so glory. Have you ever 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.200 have these moments or have you in your life where 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.320 you're like, I can't believe I'm meeting so and so, 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.000 Like when was the last time you felt the way 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.720 people feel when they meet you. Well, I can't speak 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:36.520 for how other people feel, but certainly meeting Hillary Clinton. 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:43.120 They're all kinds of people who um especially authors and 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.319 people you've seen on film. You know, it means something 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:52.480 special because it's somebody that you've seen and means a 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.560 lot to you, and then suddenly there they are, you know. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:11:01.480 So yes, right, okay, so you understand us? Yeah? No, no, absolutely, Okay. 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:06.360 I think we we when we symbolize things to each other. 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.360 I mean, the first person I felt that about was 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.080 Louisa May Alcott when I was a child, and I 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.480 read everything, not only Little Women, but everything she ever wrote, 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.840 and I used to fantasize that she would be alive again, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.240 and what would I say to her? And where would 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:26.280 I take her? And what would you have said to her? 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.839 Have you met her? Do you think? Well? I would 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.960 have said, you know how much I loved her writing, 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.640 you know. In addition to writing Little Women, uh and 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:43.079 other stories for young readers, she wrote some very realistic 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.520 and somewhat depressed stories about the Civil War era. She 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:51.120 was lad a really different and interesting life. Have you 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.560 always been a reader? Yes? Absolutely always. I always thought 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.960 that when I was growing up that if I started 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.400 a book, I had to go straight through it until 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.840 I finished, so I would stay up all night. And 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.640 this was made easier because I wasn't going to school 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.240 most of the time. My parents had a summer resort 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:17.480 in Michigan, and on the non summer months we would 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.120 get in the house trailer and drive to California or Florida. 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.199 So rather than going to school, I was on the 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.640 road reading books, and you know, reading. So what are 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.760 you like? It's such a silly, crazy question to ask you. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.640 But what are you most proud of in your life? Ah? 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:41.679 That's interesting. Well, I think I'm proud that I survived 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:49.000 my childhood, which or my say from eight to sixteen 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:54.560 year old hood because I my mother was an invalid. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.920 I was looking after her. We were living alone in 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:04.439 a terrible old in Toledo. It was it was not easy, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.600 and I'm kind of amazed that I survived that. Wow. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.040 And what part of your success? I mean, first of all, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:17.080 do you feel successful? Uh? No, I don't. I mean 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.760 I don't feel either a failure or a success. I 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.680 feel like excited about the next project, worried that I 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:29.160 haven't met the next deadline. You know, it's it's more 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.360 living in the present. How about fulfilled? Do you feel fulfilled? Yes? 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.640 I do. I do, and I feel that if I'm 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:43.640 not fulfilled, there's no reason outside myself. Perhaps because I 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.080 have not had children, so I have not had to 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.960 meet those needs and I'm no longer looking after my mother. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.040 I feel I'm able to be responsible for myself. And 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.200 what are some of your goals? Like do you want 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.760 a podcast? I think you need a podcast that and 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.880 I barely know what a podcast is. I mean, you know, 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.439 you're doing great. It's a conversation. It's people talking and 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.760 sharing the conversation. Could you tell a Julie about your 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.400 conversation circles in your house, because I was lucky enough 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.760 to be in one. Yes, those are talking circles, which 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.480 I think are an institution beginning in Native American times 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.800 before Europeans ever showed up. So there was a circle 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.480 of people, each of whom had a turn speaking. In fact, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.880 there was a talking stick that people passed around so 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.400 that when you held it you could speak, and then 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.440 you passed it to the next person. And I think 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:47.880 still that's the best form of human organization because everybody 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:53.320 gets to speak, everybody listens. It means that everyone learns. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.040 It's also calm, hopefully non violent. I mean, it's not 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.960 like two opposing sides the miniature in a circle. It's 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.280 better than being in a hierarchy. So I think that's 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.000 a very important form. Yeah, you did. That was one 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.520 of the formats of of the talk that you did 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.400 with Annie lebo Wiz is that we were all in 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.640 community and in stress. And it was really a fascinating 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.680 dynamic because as much as we were all looking to 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.760 you and Annie to lead the conversation, sort of take 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.120 us through the exhibit and take us through these really 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.680 complicated feelings that we were all having in that moment 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.280 and sort of the heat at that moment um. There 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.600 was something so leveling and opening about that format that 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.400 I was really surprised by because it's something that's sort 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.960 of very native to Indian culture. Annie. As as you 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.480 may have noticed, Annie is incredibly shoy. Yes she is. 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.360 She kept leaning over to me and talking, and I 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.160 was like, everybody's over there, Like everyone's over there waiting 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.600 for you. But I felt like I was monopolizing when 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.400 I was like, oh, I think she's you know, she's 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.400 more comfortable having you lead. You know. So some some 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.720 other great photographer, the past Avadon or somebody probably might 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.840 have felt okay lecturing about their photographs, but Annie definitely 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:08.440 did not. And because I had gone to her first exhibit, 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.280 she asked me too and reformed a talking circle as 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.880 you remember. Then she asked me to continue to do that. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.280 So actually I traveled with her to quite a few 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:25.640 different countries, from England to Mexico City with that exhibit, 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:45.360 and talking circle was always part of the exhibit. By 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.160 the way, one more thing on the podcast, your own podcast. 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.120 People would tune in to hear what you have to say. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.760 But we have so many things to teach the younger generation, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.760 you know, the women that are just coming up, and 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.440 who better than you to lead the conversation or to 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:05.600 start the conversation. I agree, well, and and we have 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.240 so many things to learn from them, you know. So 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.040 if we could figure out a way to have a 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.720 talking circle on a podcast, Yeah, maybe you can help 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.280 me with that. I will, I will follow up on that. 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.080 I you know me, I see things and I kind 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.440 of get them to happen. So yes, I would say 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.000 that's an understatement. Yeah, well I still can't even believe 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.440 that you know me, Like I can't even believe that 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.000 I know you and I. It's just kind of that 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.520 crazy world. Yeah, well why not? I mean, look at 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:45.080 what you've accomplished. I mean, you're there aren't many women 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.199 who are called titans of a whole industry, but I 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.520 noticed that people refer to you that way. They also 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.160 call her the O G. We refer to Bobby as 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.680 the O G a lot. I feel like people would 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.600 say that about you tube Claria, But do you know 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.840 what the O G is Gloria. Okay, I didn't either. 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.159 When someone called me the o G. I had to 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.960 ask my kids it meant it means original gangster. Oh 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.520 no kidding, yes, so, but of beauty. But I'm a beauty. 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:17.520 You are women women's empowerment, you know, women's empowerment. Well, 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.359 I've just learned something. I mean, you know, thank you. Yeah, 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.040 I'm going to put this in my bio. I'm going 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.600 to write down to my bio that I tell you 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.320 what it means, and we're going to get her one 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.840 of those gold necklaces that says O G on it. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.600 You know, those cool wrapped necklaces, and you're going to 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.920 walk into some event and I'm like, look at how 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.399 cool glorious steinum is. You know what what what you 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.440 must do? And I found very difficult even when we 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.879 had Miss Magazine, which obviously was our own creation, was 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:54.640 being regularly present nine to five um and being responsible 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:59.119 for a structure and for paying salaries. I mean, that 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.320 is a huge, huge responsibility. I don't do that. I 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.720 have someone that does that. I am no, but honestly 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.440 because of you, I mean, there wouldn't be but it's 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.160 the same. I mean, I'm only successful because I hire 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.800 people around me that do things I don't. I can't do. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.600 I I don't know how to type. I've written nine books. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.480 I do not know how to type. And I, you know, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.480 I asked an Julie to do this with me because 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.040 she's so incredibly well read and smart and I'm just, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.600 you know, observant and I kind of so it's just 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.240 nice to have different people around each other. No, I 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.439 I totally agree with you. And the Miss Magazine was 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:43.920 somewhat like that. But for instance, I remember the trauma 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.840 of ever having to fire anybody at Miss Magazine. You know, 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.639 they would have breakfast with pet Carbine for six weeks 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.840 and lunch with me for three weeks, and then we 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:59.000 would find them a fellowship, right exactly, Yes, Seinfeldt, they 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.560 call it foisting. You like to voice the people you 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.879 don't want around you. Yeah, let's get them another job. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.560 And now now what happens They hire people like me 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.639 to do the fire, which is such a bummer, But 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.520 that's that's the kind of stuff I got hired to do. 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.080 Did you have to do that? And Julie, did you 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.960 always have? Yeah? Not always. I had never fired anybody 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.480 until the last full time job I had, and they 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.920 hired me as the chief people Officer in addition to 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.840 a g C role, and so I had to start 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:27.880 firing people and it was just awful. But I would 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.160 spend like weeks counseling them out. I mean, I basically 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.359 found them internships. I was doing the same thing because 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.640 I was like, don't you want to pursue your dreams? 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.119 I was like, what about this other thing you might 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:37.679 want to do? And now I'm really good at it, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.800 but I sort of and be able to convince people 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.159 it's their idea because that's how good I am. So like, 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:44.840 I don't feel like, this is you living to your 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.480 highest potential. Yeah, I think I think that that's a 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.280 probably a very female cultural thing. Don't you think that 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:56.240 it is difficult because our our model of governance is 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.520 the family, and you don't fire someone from the family. 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.199 But there's moments I really wanted to Gloria, how do 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:06.200 I cancel that? Actually? I have a question to you 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.480 about family. I was listening to and interview did and 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.080 you were talking about how when girls, in particular, when 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.439 they're about eleven twelve years old, that that's when they 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.640 start losing their self confidence. And I hadn't heard it 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:23.159 said that clearly that it was that age exactly. And interestingly, 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.760 my daughter is exactly that. She's a love and going 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.239 on twelve, you know, sort of any day now. Um, 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:32.080 and I'm seeing that difference, and it's really upsetting. You know. 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.080 It's because she's the kind of kid that I think, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:35.879 like so many kids, she just thought the world was 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.040 always her, she could do anything, she was unstoppable, all 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.280 these things. And then suddenly there's it's like confidence gap 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.240 kind of coming up right now where she's starting to 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.560 doubt herself in a way that um, that is it 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.480 just feels like it's society kind of telling her all 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.480 the things she can't do, even in this moment of 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.520 the futures female. And I don't know what to do. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.639 I don't know how to help her. I don't know 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.600 how to to push her along. Well it is, I mean, 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.560 I in a general way, I think it's because the 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.960 gender role comes begins to come down upon us then, 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.440 I mean, gender doesn't really care about us until we're 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:18.800 a reproductive age in a way, so until we're I 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:20.800 don't know, seven or eight or nine or ten. We 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.080 can climb trees and say I know what I want, 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.920