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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece. Can you imagine building your

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Speaker 1: life with your husband, having children, sometimes three, four or

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Speaker 1: five children, sending your husband off to fight for our country,

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Speaker 1: and that moment when you learn he will never come home.

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Speaker 1: With me today, two military widows, one of them the

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Speaker 1: wife of Chris Kyle, the American sniper. The other the

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Speaker 1: wife of Lieutenant Lewis Allen killed in Iraq, leaving behind

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Speaker 1: not only his beautiful wife Barbe, but four boys. She

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Speaker 1: is a podcaster and an author. Also with me today,

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Speaker 1: an incredible author. I know you're gonna love her as

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Speaker 1: much as I do. Her name is Nancy Nagel. She

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Speaker 1: is a best selling author and she has written a

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Speaker 1: book that you're gonna love, The Shell Collector. It is

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Speaker 1: a story about a military widow starting life all over again.

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Speaker 1: Also with me, an incredible actress. Name you may have

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Speaker 1: seen her before, because I have, Caitlin Clark. She is

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Speaker 1: the star of a brand new movie which will drop

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Speaker 1: on Fox Nation September one, The Shell Collector, and she

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Speaker 1: has taken on the burden and the response ability I'll

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Speaker 1: portraying a military widow. Also with me, longtime friend and

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Speaker 1: colleague Karen Stark as Karen with A see New York

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Speaker 1: psychologist at Karen Stark dot com to help us figure

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Speaker 1: out what we do after such an incredible loss. First,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to Tea Kyle, the wife of

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Speaker 1: Navy Seal Chris Kyle, the American Sniper. She is the

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Speaker 1: director of the Tea and Chris Kyle Foundation, author of

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Speaker 1: American Wife and American Spirit. You can find her on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram at Tea Kyle. Everyone, Imancy Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Series one eleven. First of all, Tella,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you and Barbe put one foot

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Speaker 1: in front of the other after suffering the blow that

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Speaker 1: you did. Do you remember when Chris left? I do,

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Speaker 1: And you know each time he left was was different.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's part of what we have to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge as military spouses, is that no time of a

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Speaker 1: deployment is the same when they leave or when they

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Speaker 1: come back. And the day that Chris and his friend

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Speaker 1: Chad were killed was a Saturday morning and we had

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Speaker 1: just taken the kids to basketball games. Everything was great.

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Speaker 1: They were just going to go help somebody who claimed

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Speaker 1: to have had PTS Chris had a lot of success

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Speaker 1: taking guys out in nature and talking to them and

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Speaker 1: doing something they had in common as a way to

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Speaker 1: just open the conversation. And so because the only information

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Speaker 1: that Chris had was this was a person with PTS,

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Speaker 1: he thought, you know, of course I'm going to show

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Speaker 1: up for this guy and we'll take him somewhere really

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Speaker 1: beautiful and it's a nice drive, and I'll get my

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Speaker 1: my best friend Chad to go out there with me.

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Speaker 1: And then the guy turned on them. Of course, I

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Speaker 1: think that in that we're very blessed to have had

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Speaker 1: such a great morning and such a great period of

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Speaker 1: our life to end on a high note. And it's

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Speaker 1: also I think adds to the tragedy in the shock

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Speaker 1: that it takes a long time to really process that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had that that thoughts from my mind

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Speaker 1: over and over and over in the months to come,

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Speaker 1: like you know, just I don't understand would come through

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Speaker 1: my mind anytime i'd stop. It would be like the

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Speaker 1: back of my mind be like I don't understand, I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. So yeah, I do remember obviously very much,

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Speaker 1: so them that morning that you left, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like I said, I'm glad we were in

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Speaker 1: a really good place and had made it. Bob Allen

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Speaker 1: is also with us, wife of a Lieutenant Lewis Allen.

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Speaker 1: He and his co Captain Philip Esposito killed any Rock.

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Speaker 1: He left four boys behind, age six, five, three and

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Speaker 1: one at the time. Bob, do you remember that moment

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Speaker 1: when you sent him on his way, kissed him goodbye? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean that there are certain moments we all have

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Speaker 1: that are branded into us forever, and that's absolutely one

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Speaker 1: of them. You know, I was trying to be strong.

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Speaker 1: First time he drove away from our home and I

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Speaker 1: was holding our youngest child next to our tree, and

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Speaker 1: we were both kind of crying and hugging our baby

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Speaker 1: together while the other ones were inside. And he drove

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Speaker 1: off to go, you know, to go and meet up

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Speaker 1: with people you needed to meet up with. And a

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Speaker 1: second later he came roaring back down the road and

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Speaker 1: jumped out of the car, and he left the door

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Speaker 1: open and came running over to me, you know, gave

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Speaker 1: me they hug. He's like, I don't know how many

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Speaker 1: leave you got, you know, it was one of those

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Speaker 1: moments that you just don't forget, and up to see

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Speaker 1: him on Memorial Day weekend, he had a surprise opportunity

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Speaker 1: from you see him one more time. So on Memorial

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Speaker 1: Day weekend two thousand and five, I was able to

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Speaker 1: go up to Fort Drum and spend one more night

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Speaker 1: with him, just him and I and I will really

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Speaker 1: never forget every single moment of that time. And you

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Speaker 1: know I had to leave the next day and he

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Speaker 1: deployed a Memorial Day two thousand and five, and ten

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Speaker 1: days later he and his commanding officer were murdered by

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Speaker 1: the staff sergeant of the unit. So you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just ten days, was just a lifetime apart, barb How

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Speaker 1: did you discover that he had been killed? I had

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Speaker 1: been up all night waiting to hear back from him,

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Speaker 1: and I was just sort of resting on our bed.

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Speaker 1: It was six am. I had this terrible, terrible feeling

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Speaker 1: something was wrong. I had had some moments the day

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Speaker 1: before or I almost knew, like I just knew in

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Speaker 1: some layer of my being that he had been killed. Barbara,

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Speaker 1: you are giving me chills all over because Karen Stark

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Speaker 1: and I've talked about it a lot before, but so

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Speaker 1: often victims' families. I mean, I knew it happened to

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Speaker 1: me when my fiancee was murdered. You know, before anybody

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Speaker 1: tells you it's the strangest thing. And I swear, of course,

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Speaker 1: I could never bring this in to a court of law.

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Speaker 1: I would never bring it up to a jury even

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Speaker 1: because they'd never believe me. But I've heard it over

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Speaker 1: and over and over, Barb, tell me about that, those

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Speaker 1: moments that you know, the day before I thought I

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Speaker 1: saw him walking down the street as I was flying home,

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Speaker 1: I had missus call, and he sat next to me

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Speaker 1: in the car and he had the space and he see.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I could say this online, you

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Speaker 1: let it down, but he looked at me, so, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then later on in the evening, I was feeding

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Speaker 1: my kids dinner and it was like something literally just

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Speaker 1: it was literally like I was punched in my gut

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Speaker 1: and I fell over on the table. It's just that nowhere,

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Speaker 1: and I knew in that moment, I just knew without knowing,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then you sit up all night telling

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Speaker 1: yourself that you're crazy. But then your doorbell rings at

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Speaker 1: six o'clock in the morning and the military detail is

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Speaker 1: at your door, and your world comes to an end.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, I'm just trying to imagine you, Barb

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Speaker 1: and Taia dealing with the loss of the love of

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Speaker 1: your life and you're spiraling. I mean, Teia, how did

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Speaker 1: you do? What? How did you come out of that?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. It's been a really long process

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Speaker 1: of learning about grace for myself and from my kids,

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Speaker 1: and my faith in God has increased so much. I've

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Speaker 1: I've experienced God in so many different ways in that

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Speaker 1: I would have never imagined in the first place that

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Speaker 1: have carried me. And I remember there was this moment

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Speaker 1: where I have many moments, right, and I've gone back

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Speaker 1: and I've asked my daughter or I've learned so okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm a fragmented because there are so many moments, but

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick two. One of them was when I

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Speaker 1: realized that I was everything. That I had lawsuits, Chris's

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Speaker 1: business partners, somebody else, we had attacks from the family, rumors,

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Speaker 1: you know, it seems to always compound. And it was

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Speaker 1: sort of a five hundred and eighty degree battlefield at

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Speaker 1: the time, and my temper was short, and I was

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Speaker 1: up late, you know, all of those things. And so

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Speaker 1: years later I said to my daughter I was not

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Speaker 1: the mom I wanted to be, and I'm so sorry

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Speaker 1: and I need to ask your forgiveness. And she said, Mama,

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Speaker 1: what are you even? What are you talking about? Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember those things. And I had prayed earlier

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Speaker 1: that God would mend the places that I broke in them,

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Speaker 1: and I had these really intense spiritual experiences where I

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Speaker 1: felt like God was going to pick up where I

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Speaker 1: had fallen short. And the other moment I want to

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Speaker 1: share with you is this moment that I had with

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Speaker 1: my son. I was driving to the house and I

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Speaker 1: was crying so hard in either years after it happened, right,

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Speaker 1: these are probably The conversation with my daughter was maybe

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Speaker 1: seven years after Chris was killed, and we had many

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Speaker 1: conversations before, but the beauty of that one was that

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Speaker 1: she didn't remember all of the things that I did.

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Speaker 1: The one with my son was probably three or four

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Speaker 1: years after Chris was killed, and we're pulling into our

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Speaker 1: house and I said, I had this idea when you

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Speaker 1: were first born and things were so good that I

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Speaker 1: knew I couldn't be a perfect mom, but I thought

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Speaker 1: I was going to be really close, Like it just

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Speaker 1: came naturally to me and I had all this love

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Speaker 1: and I just felt so happy about it, and it

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Speaker 1: hurts me and I have to let go of this

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Speaker 1: that I can't even come close to what I think

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Speaker 1: I might have been able to have been without trauma,

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Speaker 1: and it breaks my heart. But it's time for me

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Speaker 1: to let go because I've held on to it and

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Speaker 1: it's hurting us more than it's helping us. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it was this powerful moment with him where he understood.

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Speaker 1: And my kids are so deep and so faithful and

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Speaker 1: so mature, and they get so much of life that

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Speaker 1: other people their age and get. And I think you

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Speaker 1: realized that it was. It was a powerful thing that

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Speaker 1: I wanted that I had to let go of. And

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Speaker 1: then we all have to give ourselves grace for the

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Speaker 1: things that we can't do in life's attacks. Does that

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Speaker 1: make sense. I'm just listening and hearing how your lives

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Speaker 1: have spun out after losing your husband. Guys with me,

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Speaker 1: two incredible military widows. Barbe allan wife of Lieutenat Lewis Allen.

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Speaker 1: He and his co Captain Philip Esposito killed in Iraq.

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Speaker 1: He left behind four little boys to be raised by Mommy.

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Speaker 1: Tell you Kyle, wife of Navy Sill Chris Kyle, the

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Speaker 1: American Sniper. I'm sure we've all seen the movie American Sniper.

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Speaker 1: I want to bring in our other incredible guests, but

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Speaker 1: I just had to start with the real thing, our

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Speaker 1: military widows who we owe so much. You know, when

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Speaker 1: we look at all the military and we think, oh,

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Speaker 1: what they're sacrificing they're going, never sees they're in training,

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Speaker 1: they're risking their lives. So often we don't think about

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Speaker 1: the military wives and husbands and children that are also

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Speaker 1: risking their world when mom or Dad are deployed. Listen

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Speaker 1: to the shell collector, what are you doing? I think

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Speaker 1: I for ustened down the style read your brother. I

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Speaker 1: don't know Jesse. Jesse, where are you? And over here?

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Speaker 1: It's good you're ready to go to work. Hey, hey,

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Speaker 1: I think I have something you're looking for. It seems

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Speaker 1: like you do. Thank you, Jesse. We talked about this.

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Speaker 1: It's not safe for you to wander off from Sorry, mom,

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Speaker 1: Jesse tells me you're having some sink problems. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was trying to fix our sink and let's just say

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Speaker 1: the sink one. That's why I bought this for her.

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Speaker 1: You're probably not gonna fix it with those. IM sure

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Speaker 1: you don't need my help, but I am pretty handy

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Speaker 1: with clumbing and the storefront back. I can help you

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Speaker 1: find what you're looking for. Two tools you need a basin, ranch,

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Speaker 1: Crescent Ranch time stories with Nancy Grace. I want to

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Speaker 1: go now to Caitlin Clark. She is just stunning and

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Speaker 1: let me just I'll go ahead and confesst Before we

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Speaker 1: started talking on air today, I had to ask her,

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Speaker 1: are you wearing blue contacts? And of course I was

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Speaker 1: devastating when she said no. Her eyes. I mean, once

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Speaker 1: you see them, you'll never forget them. She is an

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Speaker 1: accomplished actress, so many credits to her name, and I

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Speaker 1: was especially interested that she actually this beautiful woman starting

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Speaker 1: horror Fleix, which if I was telling Jack, I would

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Speaker 1: totally be in horror movies. If hor and actress, Caitlyn,

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Speaker 1: you have a really wide range. But my question to you,

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Speaker 1: my first question, hey everybody, is I like to say

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Speaker 1: this is no high tea at windsor Castle or I

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Speaker 1: jump in whenever you feel like at Caitlin, how did

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Speaker 1: you deal with the responsibility of portraying someone like Barbed

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Speaker 1: Allen or tay A, Chile, because I remember when I

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Speaker 1: would go into trial and I would be all prepared,

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Speaker 1: let's say, on a murder trial, and I would have

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Speaker 1: met with the family of the victim, and I would

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Speaker 1: have gone to the medical examina and the crime lab

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Speaker 1: and the crime scene and taking photos and measurements and

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah written opening statement and the closing say.

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Speaker 1: When I would walk into court, I would know that

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Speaker 1: I had to represent the state and everybody was counting

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Speaker 1: on me to somehow pull it out. I mean, when

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Speaker 1: you hear real life military widows, what was in your

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Speaker 1: mind when you went to act one scene one? Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you Nancy for having me on. But I do

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Speaker 1: have to say, especially after listening just now it's barbintella.

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Speaker 1: I remember when we filmed and this is actually the

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Speaker 1: opening scene. And of course there's some scenes where you

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Speaker 1: can't really relate to it, but you know how to prepare,

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Speaker 1: and I might require listening to music, but I remember

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Speaker 1: this one particular scene. The movie starts off, I'm saying

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Speaker 1: goodbye to my husband without getting too much of the

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Speaker 1: story away, and don't you dare give away the end.

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Speaker 1: We're on location there before we shoot the scene, and

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Speaker 1: I just remember thinking seeing the buses pull off the

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Speaker 1: soldiers in their uniforms, the actors actually and I remember thinking,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't imagine what military families and

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Speaker 1: the soldiers must go through. Because immediately I felt like

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Speaker 1: this anxiety and I felt sad already, without having to

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Speaker 1: do much for prayering, I thought, I don't I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to need to listen to music. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know the actor of that well, I only met him

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Speaker 1: a couple of days before Patch May, and just standing

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Speaker 1: there with my two children core actors and seeing the

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Speaker 1: rest of the families surrounding us, I felt so sad.

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Speaker 1: And it really didn't take much for me to say,

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Speaker 1: of this scene, who is my brother, my husband, a boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what Barbin team must have gone through,

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Speaker 1: and so many families and the soldiers, And right away

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Speaker 1: that I was sad, it was easy for the tears

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Speaker 1: to come out because it's just it's something that happens

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Speaker 1: all the time, and it's happened to so many families.

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Speaker 1: So for that that moment particularly, I didn't didn't really

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Speaker 1: require much because you see and you think, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can't believe this. You know how many

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Speaker 1: people this has her, So that seemed for me it

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Speaker 1: was definitely heartbreaking. You know, people often think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we see actresses and actors on the red carpet and

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Speaker 1: they're all glamorous, or we see pictures in the tabloids

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Speaker 1: of them going to dinner or some fun vacation somewhere.

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Speaker 1: When I'm listening to you described that feeling before you

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Speaker 1: started filming, Caitlin, you know, it can really it can

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Speaker 1: take a toll when you take it to heart. And

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Speaker 1: this is not much of a comparison, but I would

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Speaker 1: take my cases to heart, and I felt like so

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Speaker 1: many people were counting on me and relying on me,

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Speaker 1: and I would imagine what it would feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I lost the case and I'd have to tell

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Speaker 1: the victim's mom, you know, I'm sorry, and it just

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a huge burden. Now we have one

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Speaker 1: woman to think for this incredible story, the Shell Collector,

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Speaker 1: which I am so proud is going to be at

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Speaker 1: my home, Fox Nation. We have this woman to thank,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Nagel. Can I tell you about her? She is

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Speaker 1: the best selling author. She's written so many books, but

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Speaker 1: this one. Oh. You can find her at Nancy Nagel

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Speaker 1: dot com in AI g l E. She's on instant Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Of course. The Shell Collector is incredible, Nancy, And I've

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Speaker 1: just got to hear how you are inspired to write

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Speaker 1: this And did you have any idea it was going

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Speaker 1: to be this incredible movie with Caitlyn Clark's starring in it. Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what, this this whole story has been truly

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Speaker 1: a blessing. And Taya and Barb, I mean, I'm just

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Speaker 1: sitting here in balling for you girls. I love y'all,

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Speaker 1: and my voice is shaken. I'm so sorry. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I was born and raised in Virginia Beach, so I

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Speaker 1: don't have that military spouse background, but I have always

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Speaker 1: had boodles of respect because you know, the military wives

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Speaker 1: are just as much at the forefront of protecting us

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Speaker 1: and taking care of us as our soldiers are. There's

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Speaker 1: such a huge commitment and respect and a gift from

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Speaker 1: not only those men and women that are serving, but

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Speaker 1: their families, you know, and the children. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I grew up with all those kids that you know,

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Speaker 1: we're having to say goodbye to their daddies and stuff

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Speaker 1: just for a few months and when tragedy turns. But

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Speaker 1: this story came out of a different inspiration. I lost

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Speaker 1: my husband to a short battle of cancer in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: He was diagnosed in October with stage world one cancer

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Speaker 1: and at the end of January he was gone. And

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Speaker 1: at that time I was a senior vice president with

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Speaker 1: Saint America and the finance and technology industry, and you know,

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Speaker 1: as so many people do, you know, I felt this

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Speaker 1: profound need to pull myself up somehow through that grief,

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Speaker 1: and I was really floundering. And five weeks later I

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Speaker 1: lost my cousin and she had been battling cancer for years.

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Speaker 1: And one of the stories he had told me was

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Speaker 1: of a family friend who lived on the Outer Banks

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Speaker 1: and Kittie Hawk. And as that woman walked the beach

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Speaker 1: one morning with something really heavy on her heart, she

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Speaker 1: kicked up a shell and when she picked it up,

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Speaker 1: I had a scripture written in it, and it happened

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Speaker 1: to be this beautiful scripture that uplifted her and helped

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Speaker 1: her manage through. And over six years she found four

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Speaker 1: shells like that, and nobody else she knew had found any,

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Speaker 1: and she considered them her messages from the Angels Bide

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Speaker 1: the Sea. And I remember, you know, losing Mike on

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Speaker 1: January thirty eighth, and then five weeks later losing Diane,

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Speaker 1: and I was still so crumpled, you know, from losing Mike.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even go to her funeral. And I remember

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Speaker 1: laying in my bed just solving for that loss and

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Speaker 1: thinking I could use the bucket of those shells. And

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Speaker 1: at that point that story really started building in my heart,

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Speaker 1: and sony years to write it, you know, I lost

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Speaker 1: him in twenty fourteen. This book didn't come out uti

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, but I felt such a need to

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Speaker 1: make something good out of it. And I can tell

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Speaker 1: you the Lord has brought so many widows into my

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Speaker 1: path that it's almost a little frightening when I start

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Speaker 1: telling stories, and there are so many, but we have

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Speaker 1: found strength in each other and being able to share

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Speaker 1: our stories and I uplift each other. And so my

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Speaker 1: hopes for this book were that knowing that every single

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Speaker 1: one of us is going to go through this loss someday,

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Speaker 1: it's still we're never going to perfect it. And I

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Speaker 1: thought if I could write a story that would somehow

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Speaker 1: find a permanent place in ladies hearts that when they

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Speaker 1: went to that loss, something would tickle a memory or

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Speaker 1: give them just a little bit of hope to help

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Speaker 1: them manage through it with grace. That would be the

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Speaker 1: biggest gift at all. And when Fox Nation contacted me

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Speaker 1: to optionists for a movie, I mean I couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been happier. I'd had several movies on Hallmark. They were

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Speaker 1: all very special, but just carries such a special message

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Speaker 1: and meaning for me that touching this many people is

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Speaker 1: it's just the biggest blessing of all. I'll tell you what, Nancy, Nagel,

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Speaker 1: Barba Allen, and tell you Kyle, and you too, Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: Now that I think about it, all four of you

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Speaker 1: have just brought me to tears as I'm sitting here

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Speaker 1: listening to what you had to overcome. And one thing

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing from you is that the Lord gave you

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Speaker 1: a strength that you didn't know you have. Nancy, if

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Speaker 1: you would tell me that story one more time and

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Speaker 1: let me sink in about when those shells were found, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that story just touched me from the first

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Speaker 1: moment I heard it. But you know, after I had

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Speaker 1: that loss, it just meant so much more. But I could,

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Speaker 1: you know, I could just picture you know, this friend

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Speaker 1: of our family walking down that beach like she did

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Speaker 1: every morning. And I grew up in Virginia Beach, so

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Speaker 1: you know, we just do that. Doesn't matter what the

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Speaker 1: weather is, you know, sunshine or rain or cold, we

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Speaker 1: walk that beach and love it, you know. And she

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Speaker 1: kicks that shell up and the surf fin sound picks

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Speaker 1: it up, and then as she turns it over, she

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Speaker 1: realized that something's written in it. And to read that

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Speaker 1: scripture and suddenly feel that that lifting, you know, of

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Speaker 1: that burden to make her be able to manage through

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Speaker 1: the problem that she had at that time was just amazing.

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Speaker 1: And that over a six period, six year period, she

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Speaker 1: found four shells, not all of them were scriptures, but

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Speaker 1: all of them were positive messages, and some of them

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Speaker 1: not even on the beach, but out near our home.

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Speaker 1: And so you're like, wow, how did that happen? And

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Speaker 1: she said, you know, she asked people nobody else had

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Speaker 1: had it happened toybody else and found a cell And

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Speaker 1: so that's amazing. It was just an incredible story and

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Speaker 1: and so neat and touching and so you know, as

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Speaker 1: my the wheels in my own mind and heart were

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Speaker 1: turning as I was trying to manage through grief, this

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Speaker 1: story of this this older woman who was kind of

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Speaker 1: the navigator of those shells, even though she didn't know

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Speaker 1: where they were going to end up or whose hands,

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Speaker 1: you know, but that they managed to be in the

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Speaker 1: right people's hands at the right time. Just I mean,

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Speaker 1: it became so real to me. That's an incredible inspiration.

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Speaker 1: Barb Allen joining me, wife of Lieutenant Lewis Allen. He

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Speaker 1: and his co Captain Philip Esposito were killed Iraq two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four. He left four little boys as young

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Speaker 1: as one year old behind to be raised by mommy. Barb,

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Speaker 1: when did you feel that moment of strength, of inspiration

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Speaker 1: when you could actually see the light at the end

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Speaker 1: of the tunnel. I had a lot of those moments

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Speaker 1: over the years, but the one that served to help

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Speaker 1: me change the trajectory of my life and sort of

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Speaker 1: pivot everything around and take my life back was it

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Speaker 1: was actually on my forty second birthday when I got

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Speaker 1: a call, a collect call, of course, from my ex fiance.

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Speaker 1: I was broken, I was in bad health. That was

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Speaker 1: everything I just felt like I failed my kids. I

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Speaker 1: felt God, I failed my husband. I just, you know,

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Speaker 1: a way below rock bottom. And that call it just

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Speaker 1: ended badly, I mean, because how could that not end? Babby?

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Speaker 1: And I fell to my knees, literally dropped to my

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Speaker 1: knees and my driveway. I was sobbing and just broken.

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Speaker 1: This was ten years after my husband had been killed.

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Speaker 1: And I prayed and I just said, I really just

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Speaker 1: prayed to God. I said, please help me figure this out.

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Speaker 1: You know, how how do I have to I have

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Speaker 1: to fix this. I have to change, I have to

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Speaker 1: get myself together. I have to be strong and I

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Speaker 1: don't know how well can you help me? And I

431
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: felt an instant rush of warmth and beauty I can't

432
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: describe it, and strength and and it just it was

433
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: almost like I heard someone saying, finally, you know, I

434
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: sort of had to humble myself, you know, and ask

435
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: for the help and uh and I stood back up,

436
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: and I just felt different. I had all the same problems,

437
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: but now I had hope and I just felt differently

438
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: and I felt like it would going to be okay

439
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: because I had reached that awareness and I had received

440
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: that grace from a place I don't know, you know,

441
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: but so that was the moment that I began taking

442
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: all of those steps that I needed to change everything

443
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: about my life. And more amazing people came into my

444
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: life from that moment, Ya being one of them. So

445
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: you know that I'll never forget that woman either. Listen

446
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: to the Shell Collector, I'm sorry I was so awful

447
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: to you after Jack died. You were trying to be

448
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: there for us, and I blamed you. I know it

449
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: wasn't your fault, but it was. If I hadn't taken

450
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: a different assignment, then I would have been there with him.

451
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: That was the plan, That was the promise. Then I

452
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: broke it. Well, if you had been there, you probably

453
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't have come on either. That'd be better than being

454
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: here without him. Hid you, the kids so much to

455
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: come home to. None of this is fair. Finally coming

456
00:28:54,640 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: in terms of that, I have my bad d's overall,

457
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: I'm okay. Caitlyn Clark joining me, just an incredible actress

458
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: who is starring in what is an incredible movie, and

459
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm so proud to be able to talk to them today. Caitlin,

460
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: what was it like telling this story? The Shell Collector um, well,

461
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: I did feel, I guess a lot of pressure because

462
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: I felt like, well, my husband was killed in the movie,

463
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: and I didn't want it to make it seem like, Okay,

464
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: we forget about him. But I also wanted to hopefully

465
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: my portrayal of Amanda will inspire people to move to

466
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: move on and reach out for help. But I also

467
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: didn't want it to make it like, Okay, I'm move

468
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: on with my life, but then we forget Jack, my husband.

469
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: So that was the pressure of, you know, of thinking, Okay,

470
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: does it make it seem like I moved on and I, um,

471
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: he's out the window. But that was something I discussed

472
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: with the acting teacher and he said, no, you know, um,

473
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: they'll they'll. There's going to be a part in the

474
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: script where you'll make it clear that just because you've

475
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: found your new life with your family and you've moved

476
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: to Newtown, you know he's always going to be there.

477
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: And I'm sure many people who have lost loved ones

478
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: that will be the case for them that they've moved on.

479
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: Of course, their loved one will always be a huge

480
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: part of their life and will always own a corner

481
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: of their hearts. Yeah, that's so poignant the way you

482
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: said that always own a corner of their hearts with me.

483
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: In addition to Barbe Allen and Nancy Nagel, Karen Start,

484
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: and Caitlin Clark is tell A Kyle wife Nabe Still

485
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: Chris Kyle, who I've mentioned earlier is The American Sniper.

486
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure many of you have seen that awesome movie

487
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: The American Sniper. Tell you when was the moment we

488
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: hard Bob describing the moment she literally fell to her

489
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: knees and just could not go forward. When was the

490
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: moment that you saw a light at the end of

491
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: the tunnel. No, it's interesting that you asked that question

492
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: because I had these In hindsight, I look back and

493
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: think what I felt like in losing Chris was an amputation.

494
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: And as a parent, I think if my child was

495
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: going to have an amputation, and I knew it was unavoidable,

496
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 1: then I would do everything I could to prepare them

497
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: ahead of time. But I wouldn't tell them everything. I

498
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't overwhelm them. I would try to just give them

499
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: pieces of information and put them around people who had

500
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: survived hard things, and then I'd be with them during

501
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: the amputation and after would say, Okay, we're gonna heal,

502
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: and we are going to get out there stronger than

503
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: you were before, and we are going to show everyone

504
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: and show yourself importantly that this doesn't take you out

505
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: of game. I say that because I feel like, in hindsight,

506
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: that's what God did with me, knowing that there's free

507
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: will a man knowing that things hit us, but God

508
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: knows those things are going to happen, and so he

509
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: prepares us and my preparation. The way I see it

510
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: is that I had friends who lost their husbands, and

511
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: I watched these young widows go through it, and I

512
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: knew that they survived, and I knew that. After I

513
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: would leave the funeral, I would think, I can't believe

514
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: I have to go to the grocery store for my kids.

515
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: It feels like the world should be stopping for them,

516
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: but it doesn't. Well, yeah, oh, my stars, tell us.

517
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,959
Speaker 1: I have used that exact phrase a million times after

518
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: I can't believe you just said those exact words. You fell.

519
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: The world should be stopping, I've said a hundred times.

520
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: After my fiance case murder, it felt like I stepped

521
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: off the world and looked back because my world had

522
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: stopped and the world was still spinning, and I couldn't

523
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: believe how everything didn't stop because this horrible thing had happened, right,

524
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: And it's so hard to take in. So I'm just

525
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: imagining you coming home from a funeral and thinking I

526
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: got to go to the grocery store for the children.

527
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: It's just so, when did you feel Did you even

528
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: see a tiny light at the end of the tunnel? Well? Yeah,

529
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: I think that was The interesting thing is I believe

530
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: that God did not want those things, but he used

531
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: those things so that when I had my moment and

532
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: when people told me, you know, that Chris had been killed,

533
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: I had this knowing. You know. I had one friend

534
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: with me at the time, and she said, hey, I

535
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: saw you and the tears were pouring down your face

536
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: and you said, are you sure? Are you sure? Because

537
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: I knew there were so many times that I had

538
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: heard that maybe the guys had died or been injured.

539
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: And so I told myself, until it's you, it's not you.

540
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: Don't assume trouble until somebody looks you in the eye

541
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: and tells you it's you. And so when they said that,

542
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: and I asked them three times, are you sure, and

543
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: they said yes. It was like my head fell back

544
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: against the wall. The tears streamed down, and my friends said,

545
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: it's like you went into business mode of Okay, then

546
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: this is it because I knew somewhere inside me, I

547
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: have watched these women do this and the world is

548
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: not going to stop and this is going to be

549
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, hell on Earth for however long it's going

550
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: to be. And it's almost like my number came up,

551
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: you know, like f you know, I'm trying to swear

552
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: on this on this show, but like, oh my god,

553
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: it's you know, oh my god. And then you kind

554
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: of go into shock. And there were some it's a

555
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: long story, but there were some pastors that had gathered

556
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: in my house that I think, you know, people knew,

557
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: maybe before they confirmed it with me, and I remember

558
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: grabbing their hands. I first of all, I said who

559
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: are you because they weren't, you know, they were just

560
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: in street clothes. And they said, oh, we're some local

561
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: pastors and I said okay, and I grabbed their hands.

562
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: I said, then I want you to pray for him.

563
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: I know where he is, I know where he's going,

564
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: I know that God is with him. I just want

565
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: you to pray for that smooth transition, and they had

566
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: some you know, platitudes and all that, and I just

567
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: was I got angry and crying and I said, no, him,

568
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: the person him, and I kind of, you know, went

569
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: into my own version and words of the prayers, and

570
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: I was like, now, you know, I don't want to

571
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: be rude, but I need you to leave. You know.

572
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: It was like one, two three, like this is happening,

573
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: and I've seen it, so it's different. So I guess,

574
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's a very long winded way of saying.

575
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: In some way, from the moment I heard, I knew

576
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: you survived, and my faith was already strong, and I

577
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: knew that I had nothing to do with God wanted

578
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: to hurt any of us, and that was important. So

579
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: I had something of a knowing or a hope that

580
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: we would make it. And part of that too, Nancy

581
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: was devastating to me. I remember when one of my

582
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: friends with a widow said, he it will get better.

583
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: She was years ahead of me, and she said, it

584
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: will get better, and you won't. The missing of him

585
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: won't be so bad. And I ugly cry sobbed because

586
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: part of knowing that I wouldn't have that ache of

587
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: him being so close to my heart destroyed me too.

588
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: So the hope is good and bad at Waynes, at

589
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: ebbs and flows. I think Barbe said it best. She said,

590
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: you know they don't tell you about grief is that

591
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: it repeats in different ways. It really really does. Karen

592
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: Stark is with me, new York psychologist, joining us from

593
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: Manhattan today. Karen, I've got to tell you. Karen and

594
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: I are not just colleagues, but we've sat alone in

595
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: the dark many hours together. Now, let me explain. When

596
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: I first started as a fluke in TV with a

597
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: program called Cochrane and Grace with Johnny Cochrane, I moved

598
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: into trial coverage, live trials, and Karen would be on

599
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: the set with me, and the whole set would be

600
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: dark and would be watching a trial on the monitor,

601
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: a live trial, and then we would analyze what we

602
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: were seeing and when there would be a lull or

603
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: a break. We became very dear friends and for years

604
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: she told me I had to quote move on from

605
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: Keith's murder, but I couldn't, and everything she said was right. Karen, start,

606
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: how does anyone move on? And we're telling this with

607
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: the backdrop of this incredible movie, The Shell Collector, based

608
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: on Nancy Nagel's bestseller book available on Amazon, The Shell Collector.

609
00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: How in real life, not on the silver screen? How

610
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: can you move forward? Because you know it took me

611
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: over twenty years before I could consider remarrying, and I

612
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: would not advise that to any crime victim. Well, but

613
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: nance you couldn't help. But remember, you're traumatized. So I'm

614
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: listening to these stories and so much is familiar. You're

615
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: in shock when you first get that news, and yet

616
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: a part of you is very aware of what's happening.

617
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: And I think about that chilling description of knowing ahead

618
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: of time, and that's a very real phenomenon. That's not

619
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: something that just occurs among the few people. I remember.

620
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: And was just talking to my brother about the fact

621
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: that my dad, who died at fifty. The days before

622
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: he died, we knew, we just knew there was no

623
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: reason he had been sick, but it was a long

624
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: time now afterwards, and we just called each other in

625
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: the night before he died and said, there's this cloud

626
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: over us, and we knew he would die. We just

627
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 1: had that feeling. The next day we're very young, and

628
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: so I feel like that's part of that connection that

629
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: you have with another person, and it's very deep, and

630
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: somehow you know when they're not going to be there anymore.

631
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: You just get it. And one of the things I'm

632
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: hearing from everybody talking about this is the help that

633
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: you need to have. If you have a faith in

634
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: God or people that really make a difference in your life,

635
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: you are with them and need to turn to them

636
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: however you need to do that. The other thing I

637
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: want to say in response to what you ask, Nancy,

638
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: is that it takes a very long time and in

639
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: some ways it never goes away, it just gets smaller.

640
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: It's always a Your love is always there. The connection

641
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: is there that you learn to live again and live

642
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,919
Speaker 1: with that loss, and that's more of what happens. It's

643
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: not like you forget them. You never do, and it's

644
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: always a part of you. There's this growth of pain

645
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: that you live with and you live beyond and it

646
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: gets you to be stronger. But at first it just

647
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: feels like you can't handle it, but you do. Well.

648
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: You know, Karen Stark, You know you spent all that

649
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: time with you and I talking about could I ever

650
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: go forward, but I remember the moment I walked down

651
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: the aisle and saw David at the end of the aisle,

652
00:40:45,680 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: and everything you told me, Karen Stark was right time

653
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Nancy Nagel, the author of The

654
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: Shell Collector, did you have any idea when you were

655
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: writing that book after you gave up your corporate job,

656
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: when you're writing that book that it was going to

657
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: affect people the way it has? Um? You know, when

658
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: I first started writing at it was for me um,

659
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: but in part of kind of my healing. And you know,

660
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, the pain doesn't go away. It

661
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: definitely changes shape and texture so that we can, you know,

662
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: muddle through, but it never goes away. But as I

663
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: began getting into the story and creating it and it

664
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: started coming to life on the page, I knew in

665
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: my heart that it was a message and that God's

666
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: hands were all over it, and that he was helping

667
00:41:55,080 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: me create a story that could touch hearts and many circumstances.

668
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 1: Because you know, and I think we've heard it today

669
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: with Taya and Barbed too, that you know in your

670
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: personal thing, Nancy, you know, it's like we know the story,

671
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: and we kind of had the power like Dorothy and

672
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: her little red slippers that click our heels um and

673
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: it's within us all the time. And I think a

674
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: lot of that's the Holy Spirit, and it gives us

675
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: power to find the people we need to uplift us

676
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: and move on. And so yeah, I did. I feel

677
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: felt like God had special things for that book. And

678
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: when it debuted, it came out number twenty on the

679
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: ECPA bestseller list. It was my first Christian romance or

680
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: Christian women's fiction novel. And so yeah, I mean that

681
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: that just felt like, yeah, Okay, I did the right thing.

682
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: I said the right things, and you sure did, you

683
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 1: sure did. And Caitlin Clark, now that you were hearing

684
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: Tea and Barb all of us talking, how does it

685
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: hit you that you have been the star in such

686
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: an important movement? Well, I definitely feel very honored and

687
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: with also a great reminder the responsibility that I have

688
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: as an actress, you know, and the important part of

689
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: really going through the script and hopefully inspiring others. And

690
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: I hope you all appreciate my portrayal absolutely, Amanda, Oh

691
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 1: my goodness, the portrayal of the Star of Shell Collector.

692
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: I mean when you're hearing real life military widows. I mean,

693
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: that's a very big duty because you're portraying not just

694
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: the heroine of the book Shell Collector, You're portraying bits

695
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: and pieces of all the women and men that I've

696
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: turned in to military widows. Listen to the shell Collector. Hey, hey,

697
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: I got them a bit of a surprise. It's okay, Okay,

698
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: Hey you too. I got three questions for you. Do

699
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: you like to run? Yeah? Do you like to fly?

700
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: You're silly, we can't fly. Do you like monkeys? We love?

701
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: I don't phone one of those before I'll show you

702
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: how I'm prepared to be impressed on you Gotta run

703
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: with me? Or will fly? Hey? You want to give

704
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: the shot? You're doing great. I'm impressed. It was so

705
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: sweet of you. Jack and I used to fla tight

706
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: something from so all the times. Dude, it's that would

707
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: be something to make a share with him. But of

708
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: course you two had to two kite because it would

709
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: be a competition. There always was, except over you. He

710
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: never competed over you. Of course that I oways you wouldn't.

711
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, Barbe, do you ever feel that

712
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: your husband is giving you messages, or is in touch

713
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: with you, or is with you every day. Oh. I

714
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: could talk for a very very long time about about that,

715
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: because the answer is very strong. Yes, in so many

716
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 1: different ways and so many different moments, and especially now

717
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm engaged to an amazing man who

718
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: loves all of me. He has the same birthday as

719
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: my husband, and it's like, you know, um, and even

720
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: his kids have said he was just telling his kids

721
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: the other day, so I know. Sometimes I talked to

722
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: Lou and his two kids, or a teenager said to him, Oh,

723
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: you know that's cool because maybe Lou had a heart

724
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: in sending you to Barb. So even even they get it.

725
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, there have been there and I think probably

726
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: if we turned this into a discussion where we all

727
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: shared our stories, I feel like we could. We would

728
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: all talk for hours about all the moments because I

729
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: don't think they're unique to me, and I feel like

730
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: everybody on this call, I agree with you. I agree

731
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 1: with you. Hey, have you ever felt that Chris had

732
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: has guided you or been with you at your side

733
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 1: over this difficult time? Yeah? I do. And it's it's

734
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: interesting because you know, my daughter was six years old,

735
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: and she's so so so close to Chris. I mean,

736
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: just in January, he's killed beginning of February and January

737
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: he left for our business trip for two days, and

738
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: her eyes filled up with tears, and she said, I

739
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: know Daddy's going to be back in two days, but

740
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: I already miss him. You know, She's just like they

741
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: were so close, and after he was killed, she had

742
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: so many spiritual experiences that she was too young to

743
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: know right, Like one of them was we were leaving,

744
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: and I had enough experience before to know that I

745
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: believe in this. And so even the first time she

746
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: asked me, was like, Mama, I feel like I hear

747
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,479
Speaker 1: Daddy saying I love you, baby girl, but his voice

748
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: sounds different, and you know, so I just said, you know,

749
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure you are, baby, and so forth. So after

750
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: Chad's memorial service, Chad was Littlefield was killed with Chris

751
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: the same day by the same person in the same moment,

752
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: And that was the first memorial service that my daughter

753
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: had been to. We went to the bathroom and we

754
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: were in the same stall before we went to the funeral,

755
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: right because she's little and she's holding this little stuffed

756
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: animal in her little dress, the tears down her face.

757
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: She was Mama said yeah, and she was, I feel

758
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: like I hear daddy saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, baby girl,

759
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: But what is he sorry for? And I was like,

760
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't know why you're hearing it,

761
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: you're not making it up, you know. And so there

762
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: were a lot of Yeah, there were a lot of

763
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: experiences like that, and a lot of um. There were

764
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: some confirmations too, where I thought, man, I I'm crazy,

765
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: like I identified with Barb two thing. Okay, I'm curing

766
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 1: this and feeling this, I'm seeing this. I surely I'm crazy, right,

767
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: because that's you just doubt yourself. And then I've gotten

768
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: confirmations in the most interesting ways that okay, wow, that

769
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: must have been real. And so, yes, you know, a

770
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 1: few stories as usual from Tea over here to answer

771
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: one simple question. But yees, you know what's so great

772
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: about the shell collect What's so great about the shell

773
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 1: Collectors is that you can look at it anytime you

774
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: want on Fox Nation. I'm just so proud to be

775
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: even a small part of putting this out there. To

776
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: Nancy Nagel, incredible author, Barb Alan military widow, Teya Kyle

777
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: military widow, Caitlyn Clark, the incredible actress starring in The

778
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: Shell Collector, and our friend Karen Stark. The time we

779
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: spent together today has meant so much to me, and

780
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: I know it well to everyone listening or watching right now.

781
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: I just wish we could all be together when we

782
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: watch Shell Collector on Fox Nation. But I want to

783
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 1: thank all of you from the bottom of my heart

784
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: and wish you all the very very best, because you

785
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: truly deserve it. God bless you. Nancy Grace signing off

786
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: good bye,