WEBVTT - Outside Interactive CEO on Mission to Encourage Outdoor Activity and Community 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:10.400 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.720 Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.079 America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.960 tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.560 Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.160 It is Bloomberg BusinessWeek. That's Carol Masser on Tim Stenebeck. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.440 Little quiz, Carol, what's you? Outside magazine, the legendary Warren 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.720 Miller film Tour, the mat, my fitness suite of apps. Yes, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.080 that includes about my Ride, my run, et cetera. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:40.600 This is something you know a lot about. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.560 The event registration platform athlete reg and the mountain biking 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.040 site pink Bike all have in common. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:46.960 I don't know. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.960 All right, Well, this is why I have you. Yeah, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.000 here's the answer. They're just a handful of the more 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.240 than two dozen brands under the umbrella of the Outdoor 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.800 Media company. Outside interacts with a lot of stuff. Yeah, 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.040 there's twenty five brands there, some of them that are 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.039 like legacy companies, right, some digital only companies. Really runs 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.039 the gamut. Robin Thurston is the founder and CEO. He's 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.639 been trying to build the antidote to legacy and social media. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.520 He joins us from Boulder, Colorado, which I think makes 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.520 a lot of sense in the space that he's in. 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.640 Totally second day in a row, we've had someone from 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.520 Boulder on the program too. By the way, I am 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.479 keeping track, Robin, welcome. Before we get to what you're 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.759 doing over at Outside Interactive, let's get more of your story. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.520 Because you created matt my Fitness and sold it to 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.680 under Armour a bit more than a decade ago for 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.520 one hundred and fifty million dollars. Then earlier this year 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.320 you bought it back from under Armour. A lot happened 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:40.400 in between. Give us the story there. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.720 Yeah, I've been certainly in this space for a very 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.240 long time. I actually grew up as a bike racer, 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.000 so even in the early eighties, I've been in and 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.360 around the outdoor space. But what happened with Matt May is, 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.360 you know, we had a really good run and stewardship 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.280 from under Armor for a decade and a couple of 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.600 years ago they sold another company we bought while I 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.840 was there, called my Fitness Pal, and I just kind 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.000 of kept knocking at the door and saying, like, you know, 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:11.920 depending on what you do with it, you know, I'd 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.520 love to have an opportunity to buy it back, And 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.600 that opportunity came up at the beginning of this year, 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.840 and we pursued that, you know, sort of with them 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.440 and found a good path to getting it back and 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.080 you know, not only rebranding it to the original matt 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.360 My brands, but you know, having it underneath the Outside 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.080 portfolio and starting to really deeply integrateed. So really exciting 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.520 for me to have it back. And my co founder, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.880 Kevin Callahan was already working at Outside, so he's now 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.840 helping me run matt My again. So he was one 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.080 of the original co founders of matt My. And so 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.040 it's kind of like the whole families back together. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.720 Is there like an anchor brand in the umbrella? 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:50.160 Here? 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.400 Is it matt My? This was a relatively new addition 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.160 to the portfolio, But is this like the anchor now? 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.240 You know, if I think about our biggest products, most 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.400 recognized products outside magazine, outside television, clearly or anchors. I 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.679 mean we actually, you know, when we bought them, we 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.840 renamed the company Outside Interactive because it's the best brand 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:15.600 in the category. Pink Bike is an absolute enormous site 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.320 globally in the mountain bike community. 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:20.960 It's been around forever. I mean since I since like 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:22.919 basically when I started mountain biking. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.760 Yeah, I mean twenty five years. We bought it in 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.160 twenty twenty one, you know, so pink Bike and outside. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.239 But on the mapping side, no question, matt May is 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.520 our biggest asset. Now we own trail forks and Gaya 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.440 GPS as well, and now we're the number two player 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.680 in the mapping space with you know, nearly a hundred 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.440 million users in mapping and over one hundred million users 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.040 total for the outside platform. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:50.960 So I don't like to use the term synergies because 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:52.640 I think it's kind of like a throwaway word. But 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.360 when you're talking about, you know, a portfolio like this, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.360 there are certain synergies I couldn't help. But notice I did. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.840 I read it starred for a cyclic cross race a 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.320 few months ago. Carol Bike. Redge is the company that 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.560 for you know, for ab more than a decade I've 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.040 been using you guys now own it, Robin. I've realized 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.880 I I got this week an outside magazine in the mail. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.919 Did I get that? Did I get that because I 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.720 registered for my cross race on bike Redge. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.599 It's possible or it could have been part of you know, 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.360 if you are a member or have you know, historically 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.520 signed into Pink Bike or Trail Forks or one of 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.719 the other platforms, it's possible it was from one of those, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.240 you know, without looking at your user account, which I 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.360 don't do, you know, unless we're friends on the platform. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.599 You know, I wouldn't know unless we had client service 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.120 look into it. But you know, the ideas, yes, those 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:53.520 synergies exist so that we can cross pollinate and and 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.600 really you know, single sign on now the entire platform, 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.440 you use one log in. We have one membership layer 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.200 called Outside Plus that is you know, over three hundred 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.440 dollars of value that we sell at ninety bucks a year. 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.120 You know, that really gives you premium access to all 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.240 of the pieces. And so the goal really was that 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.920 was creating more of a first party data platform that 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.719 really you know knows you know, when you switch say 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.000 let's say you're a skier and you're skiing in the winter, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.279 you know, you're using Ski Magazine, you're using Gaya for 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:27.080 the trail maps and things like that, and then all 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:28.920 of a sudden, you switch to mountain biking in the summer. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.200 Now we have a good idea about that in the ecosystem, 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.240 and that allows us to serve, you know, the best 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.960 content and services to you kind of in real time 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.640 and make suggestions so that you ultimately spend more time outdoors. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.520 So go to your website. Twenty five brands, eighty million 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.560 and counting monthly reach, twenty eight million plus social followers, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.800 two hundred plus employees. So, Robin, how do you think 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:53.920 about your FO one hundred? 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:55.560 Oh sorry outdated? 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.359 Oh okay, forgive me. You got to talk to your website people. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.200 But I understand like things are moving fast. So how 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.679 do you see you guys? Are you a content company? 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.360 Is it about data like getting a very niche population 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.480 and a data set around them that's certainly going to 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.920 be of interest to other people who will pay for that. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.440 Is it about marketing? Is it about advertising? 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:18.560 Like? 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:19.599 What is it? 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:21.760 Well? 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.719 I think the way we describe Carol is that essentially, 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.400 first we want to inspire you through content. So the 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.760 content piece is really important, and that could be that 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.839 could be video content. We have a twenty four to 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.000 seven you know, TV channel on both fast and linear. 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:42.320 Still that could be through you know, any one of 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.760 the brands from a content perspective in writing or audio 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.200 like the Outside podcast. So once you get inspired, then 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.039 we want to basically shift you into activation. So you know, 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.320 you gave a good example of bike rage. We want 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.560 to suggest events that you could go do and then 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.440 get you registered for those events, or we want to 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.039 suggest trails that you could go do and have you 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.480 go do those and then ultimately celebrate that. And celebration 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.240 could come in the form of you know, recording and 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.080 seeing what you did at the finish, it could be 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.560 sharing it with friends and having those people celebrate that. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.320 And what we ultimately think about that journey is that 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.520 if we can successfully navigate you through that, that you 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.240 kind of keep going back for more. So the metric 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.240 that I use often our goal to be clear like, 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.240 is we want you to spend more time outdoors. Never 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.880 in human history have people spend as much time indoors. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.160 And we know screens are bad for people. We know 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.800 that there is a mental health crisis, and you know, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.880 my view is that the outdoor solves that. And so 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.560 our goal through that journey is to get you to 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.720 do those things and ultimately activate and spend more time outdoors. 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.960 Look, I think everybody agrees that we all need to 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.920 be spending more time outdoors. I think about what you're saying, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.920 Robin and I and Strava just keeps coming to mind. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.040 One of you guys and a buy Stravay. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.680 Look, we're partners with them. You know there certainly there's 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.680 interactivity between you know, our platform and their platform. 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.040 You know, what I would say is you know who knows? 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:16.560 I mean it. 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.360 I think there's still going to be a lot of 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.160 consolidation in the industry. I mean, we're still inquisitive. I 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.400 know others are in the space, and you know, my 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.400 view is that they have a good product. It's pretty 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.720 it's pretty narrow in my mind to outdoor categories. Like 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.000 you know, if you think about something like matt my 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.240 Fitness that records over four hundred and fifty different I 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:41.079 haveivity activity types. Strawa I think has forty activity types 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.120 they record in and and you know, it's frankly, i'd 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.600 say very concentrated in cycling and running. You know, So 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.840 I I you know, who knows what will happen in 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.640 the future. Our view is that your data, so you 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.760 as an individual user. You own your data and you 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.160 should be able to do whateverever you want with it. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.880 You know, there are certainly some people in the industry 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.800 that you are trying to create more closed environments. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.920 And I would say we're very pushing for an open. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.960 Environment, all right, So not know was that on straw. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.600 Tricky question? Maybe I'll leave it with them, fair. 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:17.240 Enough, fair enough. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.199 I want to get right back to Robin Thurston, the 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.920 founder and CEO of Outside Interactive. He's also the guy 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.080 who created and then sold to under Armour the matt 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:30.920 My suite of apps. He joins us once again from Boulder, Colorado. Robin, 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:32.680 and we got a good bit of time left with you. 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.440 There's a lot we want to cover, including the revenue 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.840 model at the new Ish business. Newish, I say, you've 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:40.400 been there for a few years at this point now, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.440 but also go back in time a little bit and 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.520 talk a little bit more about under Armour and about 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.760 matt My, just because you did end up joining after 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.840 you sold the company a little over a decade ago 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.720 to under Armour. You were there for a couple of years, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:54.719 then you left and went off and did your own 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.040 thing for a few years. What was it like watching 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.040 them work have the produc as an outsider and then 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:02.559 being an insider once again. 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.120 You know, I would say after I left, and I 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.280 was there about three years after they acquired US and 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.280 we acquired you know a number of other companies to 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.959 put into what was called Connected Fitness. When I left, 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.400 I think, you know, I had this sort of bigger 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.160 vision for you know, more and more content around the subscription, 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.400 and obviously at the time the business had some had 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.720 some challenges, and so you know, I decided it was, 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.000 you know, better to move on, I would say. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:33.760 For the first couple of years after. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.280 I left, I you know, I want to say I 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.920 disconnected a little bit, like I tried not to maybe 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.400 overthink the fact I'd made a decision. I knew I 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.000 had sold the business, and you know, it was no 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.920 longer in my hands, I would say. As they started 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.480 to you know, sell off assets, I started looking at 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.000 a lot more obviously, continue engaging with the checking the product, 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.959 you know, sort of reliability of the product, you know, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:00.520 And that's one of the reasons I was so excited 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.480 to get it back, because you know, they had stewarded 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.280 it well. It was you know four point nine stars 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.440 in the app Store for Matt My Run and Matt 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.040 My Rod and Matt My Walk, and so you know, 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.240 I knew it was still in decent shape and growing 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.439 from a user based perspective. I mean, when I sold 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.559 it to under Armour in twenty thirteen, it was twenty 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.640 million users, and when we just bought it back it 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.040 was eighty five million users. So you know, they definitely 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.160 had grown it. It's still growing organically very nicely. This 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.760 is part of the benefit of being you know, Matt 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.600 My Run and Matt My Ride we're in the first 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:33.680 hundred apps and the app Store in July of two 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.160 thousand and eight, and so you know, it's still benefiting 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:37.480 from that. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.640 It's still out the way the algorithms work. 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.959 It still has a lot of organic traffic globally and 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.000 a lot of usage in the app every month. And 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.600 so you know, I think, I'm I'm real like, we're gonna, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.760 We're gonna. We're relaunching right now challenges, branded challenges, so 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.360 we'll have a lot of brands on the platform, you know, 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.199 doing branded challenges this year in twenty twenty five, and 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.400 we have advertise that's being turned back on for free users. 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.760 You know, and start to monetize it again and really 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.520 get it back to the point of it being a 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.920 very robust you know, uh, not only monetization platform, but 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.960 certainly developing new features. As you all know in the 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.040 finance world, if you're able to generate revenue, it's easier 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:21.600 to build new features for users. 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.960 Yeah, of course, yeah, that is true. Hey, why do 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.680 you think you know it was there was a really 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.400 interesting moment with apparel companies and digital. You know, Nike 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.120 had its fuel band you mentioned under Armour and connected Fitness. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.719 Why do you think the peril companies weren't able to 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:37.319 make it work? 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.400 You know, I look, I think Nike is still doing 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.679 a good job with you know, I mean, obviously it's 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.280 it's a it's less of a focus than maybe it was. 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:52.800 But you know, obviously as they have to go and 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.080 improve and go back out into distribution. I think Adidas 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.960 and run Tastic in some of their digital products is 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.440 you know, could compliment a six owns run Keeper, which 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.880 was also one of the first early apps in the 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:11.560 store when we were there. You know, I think a 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.120 little bit of it is just like you know, mixing. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.200 You know, I call pure digital companies with you know, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:23.600 really shirts and shoes companies and kind of like what 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.040 that means. I mean, I think the most interesting thing 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.640 about digital products is like it's not a it's not 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.760 a one and done, you know, like when you think 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:32.719 about an app, like you. 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.120 Have to keep investing. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.880 And you know, I think as maybe some of the 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.480 founders left these companies and there were changes, you know, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.320 maybe they didn't have the same vision for what it 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.160 could do for whether it be their e commerce businesses 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:51.120 or you know, how it touches the customer. You know, 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.720 so I think it lost a little focus, and certainly 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.679 as those companies had their own challenges. I mean, even 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.880 look at Lulu, Lemon, Sould, Mirror or sorry shut down 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.880 right right, five hundred million dollar investment, right, it was 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.160 a big number, right, So you know, I think a 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.920 little bit of it's that it's that mixing of you know, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.240 what I call pure digital and sort of app ecosystems 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.440 with you know, basically apparel and footwear. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.160 Silly question for you, Robin, but we're Bloomberg and we 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.600 are always curious, how do you make money? Are you profitable? 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.760 Tell us about kind of the metrics of the business 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.000 to understand, you know, or help us better understand the 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.280 viability going forward. And is it all a lot largely 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.360 based on advertising in marketing. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.680 Yeah, I think what's interesting about this business specifically, and 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.400 I would say this was sort of a goal from 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:46.640 the onset, was that when we acquired these businesses, they 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.920 like even the mapping tools like Gaya and trail Forks, 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.240 were relatively you know, they had very small subscriber bases 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.440 and we're not that focused on monetization. They were more 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.040 focused on user growth, user growth, and like with the 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.840 media businesses, they were one hundred percent advertising. Like, they 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.480 didn't have first party log in, they didn't have any personalization, 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.720 they didn't have a membership. 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:10.800 Tied to the digital piece. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.600 So when we bought these businesses a little you know five, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.680 you know, four or five years ago, you know, we 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:21.120 did twenty twenty three acquisitions during COVID, you know, they 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.840 were mostly advertising. And today we're now at this point, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.480 we are fifty percent you know, arr subscription or sort 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.240 of SaaS businesses with things like bike Ridge and you 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.960 know now and only fifty percent of the business is advertising. 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:37.960 So we continue to. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.840 Dive the mean annual recurring revenue, right, so I make 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:41.600 sure Okay. 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.960 Annual recurring revenue. My apologies to the audience, it's okay. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:46.480 You know. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.680 So these are subscription based businesses and we're really relying 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:50.760 on that for the growth of. 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:52.800 The business, and so we need the support. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.560 Of the community and the users to buy those memberships 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.320 because that is how we're going to develop more and 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.640 more features for them. We're relying les and less on advertising, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.880 although it's an important, very important part of our business, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.800 and we have incredibly important partners, like I just got 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.800 back from the Defender, the land Rover Defender Awards out 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.320 in California. Land Rover is an incredible partner for us. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.080 Same with Toyota. We have a number of autos CpG companies. 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:19.840 But that's the other thing that's happened with us is 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.880 the advertising changed from largely endemic categories. So people like 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.520 north Face and Patagonia and others, and those are still 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.840 partners of our Now fifty percent of the advertising business 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.320 is non endemic. It's it's big autos and other partners 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:36.280 because we have scale. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.040 Okay, so are you profitable, are you growing the top? 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:41.960 What can you share with us about the business man? 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.200 I'll share top I'll share top level with you. 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.320 We're over one hundred million in revenue, and you know, 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.680 we we continue to believe that, you know, we we 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.880 can eventually take the company public and that you know, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.520 we can do that both organically and from an organic 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.160 growth as well as inorganic growth. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.600 So what like, so what kind of business is this 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.320 one hundred million in revenue today? Is this multi billions 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:06.000 of dollars? 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:06.159 Like? 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.200 How do you think about the trajectory here? 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.280 Well, I think you know, the one thing that you said, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.119 Carol is like the some people do perceive this as 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.400 niche I perceive outside very much as general wellness and 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:25.200 that everybody needs something in our ecosystem from a wellness perspective. 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:29.000 And so you know, the addressable market for that, in 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.320 my mind is billions of people. You know, today we 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.800 touch about three hundred million unique people annually through all 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.520 the distribution channels. 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.679 And all the services. You know. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.840 My view is that, you know, in the future, we 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.280 should be able to convert something on the magnitude of 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.240 you know, one to five percent of those people annually 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.960 into membership. And so you know, you talk about a 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.040 ten plus million member business. I mean that's a that's 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.200 a big, multi billion dollar company. 0:17:58.280 --> 0:17:59.000 Is it sticky for you? 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:04.560 Tim steneviek Oh bike Ridge, Oh, bike Ridge is like yeah, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.119 if you're gonna race in a bike race, like a 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:09.919 cycle cross race in the Northeast, and I assume it's 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.960 like this all all over for USA cycling events, bike 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:13.399 Ridge is. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.920 The only place to do it, okay. And it is 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.359 a great product. It's easy to use, and it saves 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.119 my information, and it's fair and it shows me the 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:20.920 races that are close. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:21.760 Yeah. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.960 I just need it to include childcare, which it doesn't 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:26.760 do yet, so I would appreciate that. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:28.639 Right, there's a new revenue stream, right. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.320 Yeah, if you can make the little kids cross race, 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.159 you know needs you know, yeah, you know what I'm 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:41.080 talking about. So I'm wondering about other areas of business 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.119 that you want to get into if like these twenty 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.320 five brands, you said you're still inquisitive, But is there 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.399 an area that you're not playing in right now that 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:50.000 you want to plan? 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:54.600 You know, I think the areas. 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.880 I mean, you know, one one area on our AD 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.720 business that's our second largest AD business is travel, so 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.960 we work with a lot of travel companies. 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:03.920 I mean, one of the things people come to. 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.199 Outside for is like what to go do right, like 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.520 whether that's an event or that's a place to go. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.640 I mean we write two thousand plus pieces a year 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.720 of content that are related to like you know, roundups 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.520 of like top ten hikes in North America, top ten 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:23.240 surf towns, top ten you know, kayaking, places to go, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.199 you know, things like that, And so travel is a 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.320 really big part of our business. And I think travel 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:30.399 is an area where I think we can you know, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.720 if you think about bike ridge, I think travel is 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.879 an area where we can do a lot more for 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:35.520 the customer. 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.000 I think we can help in that journey. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.119 So akin to like Expedia or an Airbnb or like 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:42.160 like where kids. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:43.680 Yeah, it's different. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.840 It's different because a lot of those companies do not 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.919 focus on you know what I call the sort of 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:54.000