WEBVTT - Positively Gam: Self-Doubt w/ Dr. Alfiee Breland-Noble 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.480 What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively gam 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:16.280 something that's been on my mind lately. It is always 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.000 on my mind self doubt. I go through it a 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.720 lot and have spoken about it some of my insecurities 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.040 on this podcast and on Red Table Talk. I know 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.960 we all go through self doubt regarding different things, and 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:29.960 so I wanted to talk to someone who can shed 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.160 some light on why we go through this self doubt 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.919 and ways we can become more confident in ourselves. So 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.680 let's get into the episode. Dr Alfie am Brillian Noble, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:48.000 known professionally as Dr Alfie, is a pioneering psychologist, scientists, author, 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:52.360 and mental health correspondent. As an in demand expert in 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:57.680 BIPOC mental health, she hosts a video podcast, Couch and 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.760 Color with Dr Alfie, and it's a regular broadcast, digital 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:08.280 and print media contributor for various outlets including NBC, CNN, PBS, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.160 and The New York Times, and she's been a guest 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.840 on our own Red Table Talk. So welcome Dr Alfie. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.000 Depositively gam Thank you, Gamy. Yeah, I'm so glad to 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.840 see you again. It was such a joy to have 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.119 you on Red Table Talk and you know, I just 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.240 enjoyed our conversation so much. It just felt a need 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.399 to talk a little bit more about some things that 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.640 I feel a lot of people go through and definitely 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:39.360 me personally so. And it's so interesting because I looked 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.840 at my daily own the other day, I give the 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:48.760 email and it was recognizing your value and I was like, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.920 how approse, Like this is karma or something, because that's 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.480 what came up, and it's changed You're thinking to knowing 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.240 that your life matters and that you are import too, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.680 and you know it can be it says it can 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.360 be easy sometimes to buy into the illusion of our 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:12.560 own insignificance a couple of things. So just thinking about 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.160 coming into this space and having this conversation with you, 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.680 it made me think of both of us as black women. 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.760 Let's start there, right, and then I think start extrapolating 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.360 out to all people who have these marginalized identities. So 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.120 I I want to start there right. So when you 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.839 have an identity where you're not always in spaces where 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.360 people look like you, or think like you, or talk 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.480 like you or share your experiences, I think for many 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.640 of us, particularly, I think about the world that you 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.360 live in and how we we all see you publicly, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.680 I would imagine that they are. Oftentimes, when you're in space, 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.120 you might be the only person of color in the room. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.119 There are times maybe when you're in spaces where you're 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.200 the only woman in the room. There are times when 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.240 you're the only representative of your generation. Not always, but 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.520 sometimes so. I think a lot of us go through 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:59.880 that and have those experiences. And when we're looking to 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.320 round and we don't see people who mirror us, right, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.440 one thing I feel is really important is you need 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.680 your mirrors. That's why parents are so important and caregivers, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.960 because that's somebody who you can look at them and say, Okay, 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.560 so they've had X, y Z experience and they made 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.359 it through. Maybe I can. But when we don't have that, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.880 I think we tend to internalize and think there's something 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.359 wrong with us. That's always the immediate thought, there's something 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.239 wrong with us. And then the final thing I'll add 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.760 is that gets reinforced when you watch things in all 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.280 types of media, whatever kind of media it is. Let's 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.840 not just pick on social media and everything you see 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.960 does not reinforced you positively. So the whole name of 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.360 the show positively gam right, that's a positive reflection of 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.280 who you are and what you represent in the world. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.440 But we don't all always get that, and you don't 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.480 always get it either, neither do I. So that's what 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.080 contributes to ourselves doubt, right, and we don't always feel that. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.440 And I have to say that even being on Red Table, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:01.200 I mean there's sometimes when, first of all, me being 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:06.440 at the table with Jada and Willow, Willow who is 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:12.320 so prolific and so far above her years in her 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.839 thinking and the way she expresses herself and just their 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.760 experience and their comfort level in front of the camera. 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:23.760 Sometimes I'm sitting at the table and I actually shrink right, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.359 and I just I can't find my voice. I can't 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.480 find my words to fit into the conversation. So there 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.719 have been several episodes that I've watched and I'm like, Wow, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.600 I'm actually not saying anything, and it's just my own 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.159 self doubt that I don't feel like that I have 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.080 anything to contribute to the conversation, and sometimes I actually don't. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.160 And so I know when to be quiet. Yeah, I 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.480 don't need to talk if I ain't got nothing to say, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.440 you know, But there are sometimes when I feel like 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.840 I have that I want to say things, but I 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.280 don't know if it's the right thing to say, you know, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.880 And it's a once again that self doubt. I don't 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.560 feel like what I'm thinking is important enough to even share. 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.039 And so that's been challenging for me, even in that setting. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.640 And people assume that, you know, I'm very comfortable, and 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.640 I am not. But I also feel like this is 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.120 something This is not new for me. This is something 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.160 I swear to you. I've always felt this way, even 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:29.720 as a child. I just have always been uncomfortable in 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.520 my own skin, and I don't know how to combat. 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.479 And I've been in therapy and therapists have tried to 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.479 delve into my childhood. Was there something in how my 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.760 mother and father raised me, how I was treated. It's like, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.839 I mean, I was the youngest of four. That's the 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.520 only thing that that I can think of. I don't 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.039 feel like I was neglected. I was the youngest. I 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.279 have a sister who was two years ahead of me. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.880 We were very close and typically I would not do 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.240 things without her right So, I mean I would go 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.880 to school, of course, and be in in class, but 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:15.520 when it came to our outside activities, I you know, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.920 I wanted to be wherever she was, so we went 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.039 to the y. I wanted to be in the same 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.480 classes that she was in. And it didn't always happen 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:29.359 there world classes that we took separately, but it was 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.679 always that comfort to me that when we were switching, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.360 like if she was taking Spanish dance, I might be 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.560 in uh ballet. But I knew, like when it was 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.159 time for us to switch and go to another class, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.840 either I was gonna pass her in the hallway or 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.240 I was gonna see her or meet up. We're not 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.600 taking this class together, but then the next class will 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:51.800 be in the same you know what I mean. It 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.560 was just like and I mean that has gone on 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:02.599 for into my adulthood. It was just always this don't 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:08.240 want to do anything by myself. Mhmm hmmm. I think 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.280 damn some of that. Think about it, like this one 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.480 thing I will I hope that you will carry with 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.240 you the first thing I thought of. And I'll come 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.080 back to this because I gotta say both of these 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.640 things is your feelings are always valid, but they're not 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.760 always accurate. Think about that, right, and so you have 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.520 these feelings, Sometimes feelings come up my Mom's used to see. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.960 She used to say, and my grandma, the devil, you know, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.560 is better than the devil you don't know. You know 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.120 that Black folks say that, and so that idea that 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.960 it's still a devil, but you know it. So it's comfortable. Yeah, 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.760 about that, So that feeling sometimes you're used to having 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.680 that feeling, so when it comes up, we just accept it. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.880 This is accurate because I always feel like, how often 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.920 do we say that's just how I am. Yeah, I'm 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.320 just like that, right, And so I think part of 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.360 it is. So that's a piece of it. I want 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:56.800 to come back to that. Before that, I want to 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.120 say this, I wonder if you and your listeners and 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.840 your viewers can think about reframing it so that you 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.040 focus on those aspects that I'm just listening to you 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.720 talk that you shared, where you talked about what you 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.880 do know. Sometimes I'm gonna reflect it back to you. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.240 Sometimes I said at the red Table and I have 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.920 nothing to say because there's nothing for me to contribute. Damn, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.440 how many people can say that. How many people literally 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.240 just talk and talk because they're just trying to fill 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.880 up the space. Whereas what you shared is I know 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.640 that there are times when there's nothing for me to contribute, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.120 so I don't contribute anything, right, So sometimes all you 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.960 need to do is just acknowledge those aspects of who 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.080 you are and what you bring to this world that 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.040 are positive and that are enough. Right. So those are 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:46.680 two pieces I want to share, and then I gotta 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.120 throw one thing in there because it just made me 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.839 think of it. I really believe this idea that we're valuable, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.680 and I think we talked about this at the Red Table. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.520 Just because we exist, you don't have to do, have 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:04.400 be say anything. You're valuable. I remember this vividly because 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.719 you made it here to be on this planet, and 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.120 there's so many people who did not. Yeah. I think 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.640 it says that in the daily home too. Yes, yeah, 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.040 so I wouldn't you know. I didn't make that up, 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.079 but I remember when it would shared with me. It 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.200 just it was life changing for me. So I think 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.520 this idea that you can acknowledge what your strengths are. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.360 Sometimes it's enough to just acknowledge that strength and just 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.000 sit with that, and then to remember your feelings are 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.600 always valid in the moment you feel them and they're real, 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:40.200 but they are not sure feel accurate. They do feel accurate, 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.000 And I think part of it is practicing. How do 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.720 we practice being in the space where I acknowledge this 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.520 is what I'm feeling and not but and I find 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.200 ways to bring myself to a more positive plane when 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.400 I'm feeling those things. So think about yourself sitting at 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.120 the table and you're thinking to yourself, I don't have 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.160 anything contribute to this conversation. Maybe remembering me or somebody, 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.560 or remembering yourself saying that's okay because there's nothing for 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.959 me to contribute right now, and when the time comes 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.360 to me to contribute, I'll be ready. What if you 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.080 could remind yourself of that in those moments, then there's 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.040 less pressure to feel like I should be saying something, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:17.920 I should be doing something, you know what I mean. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.960 So just reframing it in the moment sometimes it's what 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.960 you need until that practice becomes automatic. Because at this 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.439 point your automatic thought is right, and I'm sure you've 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.720 probably talked about this in therapy. You're automatic thought is 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.319 I'm not saying anything, and then it devolves into I'm 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.080 not worthy should I really hear? Why anything to say? Right? 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.200 That's automatic? So what if the automatic starts to become 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.480 I had this conversation with somebody and they said to me, 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.760 maybe it's okay that I don't have anything to say, 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.439 because that means I know myself well enough to know 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.640 when do I contribute and when do I hang back? 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.080 M Yeah, that's that definitely would have to be in 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.920 reframing from me because I always go to you don't 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:03.600 even need to be sitting here because you ain't even 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.520 saying nothing right and thin. But think about this, gam 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.080 Think about what you represent just by being at the table. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.000 Think about a generation of women right who, like like 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.319 I said, Jade and are gen X. When Jada is 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.080 at the table, I know she's only speaking for Jada, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.559 but there's so many gen X, Black women and women 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.679 of color and women in general who look at her 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.960 and they're like, yeah, she's saying stuff that resonates with me. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.040 Saying with Willow Right as a gen z er, it's 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.600 the same for you for your generation. You just your 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.040 presence and as gorgeous and as radiant as you are, 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.559 and how you just show up. You are giving voice 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.720 and visibility to so many women who are in your 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.040 generation who might have felt they didn't have a voice 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.800 and nobody was reflecting their experiences and you do that 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.520 just by showing up. Speaking of generations, do you think 0:11:55.559 --> 0:12:01.360 that self doubt and these um insecurities are feelings that 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.160 are passed down through generations? Because I feel like I 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.360 was born that way, my mother was, it was not 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.640 this way, my father was not. I just don't know 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.520 where it came from. But do you feel like those 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:21.440 kinds of issues and fears are passed down through generations? 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.920 I mean not only are they passed down internally through generations. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.200 So you think about intergenerational trauma, but you also think 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.199 about societally, what kind of messages do we get from society? 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.520 So even if it wasn't happening in your house that 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.720 you were aware of, think about this. We don't know 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.480 what was happened internally with our love that we don't know. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.800 All we know is what they tell us. So I 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.760 guarantee you there's somebody in the family somewhere, probably close 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.960 first egre relative who's struggling with the same stuff, but 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.480 just never verbalize those things. So I think there's this 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.280 internal part where we pass it generationally. I also think 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.280 society gives us these messages. Think about where end up 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.040 your generation and what women were told they could and 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.960 could not do. Think about that, right, I think about 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.800 women of my generation, we could do a little bit 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.839 more because of the sacrifices that you all mad. And 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.719 then I think about Willows and my daughter's generation, right, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.440 they do even more. So I think it's a little 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.679 bit of both internal passing down but also external messaging 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:29.440 as well. Now, we also did a show on anxiety, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.840 and I never thought of myself as being somebody who 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:39.640 is anxious. Is anxiety and self doubt connected? But they're 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.000 not the same, right, They're not the same. They're not 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.080 the same. But anxiety and self doubt can absolutely be connected. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.679 So when you think about anxiety, I tend to think 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:53.560 about anxiety as worried, right, just making in plain English, worried. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.200 That's out of proportion to whatever the stimulus is that's 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.800 presented to you. Right. So if something happens, whatever it is, 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.679 like somebody cut you off in traffic, many people who 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.880 don't have anxiety, Oh they just cut me off in traffic. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.000 Maybe they get annoyed. An anxious person starts thinking stuff, 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:09.560 what was that in the wrong lane? What did I 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.880 do wrong? Why did they cut me? Off, this is 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.400 just the worst day ever, right, and it just starts spirvuling. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.120 And so I think it's this idea of think about 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.200 fight or flight. We all have fight or flight, right, 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:24.360 It's just it's is born into us anxious people. Their 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.120 fight or flight isn't overdrive, right, and it's varying degrees 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.760 or overdrive. So it's not like everybody's that attend in 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.760 flight all the time. But I think when you're anxious, 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.480 you're in my because I'm anxious too, has a little more, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.960 you're a little more reactive. And so I think absolutely 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.880 self doubt contributes to that. They feed each other, right, 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.560 So it's not necessarily know which came first, but they 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.960 absolutely feed each other. So I'm gonna give you an example. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:54.400 I had a situation recently where I had an opportunity 0:14:54.480 --> 0:15:01.600 to attend an event, right, and they only had one 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.960 ticket though, so that man, I was gonna have to 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.800 go by myself. And it was an important event, something 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.680 that I really would have loved to attend, but I 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.280 didn't want to go by myself, and I had all 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.320 of these reasons why I couldn't go. I can't go, 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.480 I'm going to be at the table by myself. I 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.600 won't know where to sit. I won't there's not gonna 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.920 be anybody there. I just I can't do it. And 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:30.080 my husband was like, Adrian, you absolutely are going to 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:34.920 know some people at the event, and what will happen. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:39.200 What would be the worst thing that would happen if 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.240 you go and you're sitting at the table by yourself. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.760 You know how to talk to people, you know how 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:51.240 to have conversation, and guess what, if you don't like it, 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.720 you can get up and leave. And he really had 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:01.080 to talk me into it. My r rap was like 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.520 I will be there. I will be there and I 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.160 can greet you and make sure that you get in 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.920 your seat and all that and you know, and then 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.400 I was like, Okay, I can do it. I can 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.040 do it. And then it turned out I had to 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:18.760 work and I couldn't go anyway. But then I got 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.880 all ramped up, and you know, ready I wanted to go. 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.440 I was excited about going. It was an event that 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.280 I actually really wanted to attend. I was just I 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.120 let my fear take over, so I see that anxiety 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.160 because my head I went to all of this, just 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.440 all these reasons why I absolutely could not do it. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.160 I just I can't do it. I can't do it, 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.160 you know. And my husband was I mean, I love 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.280 him so much, he just he is a grounding force 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.840 in my life. You know. That was I think a 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:58.480 really good example of anxiety and self doubt, like the 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:04.199 two of them like combusting and creating such a you know, 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:09.920 a negative force in my mind. It wasn't real. It's 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:20.720 just it's you know, I just went left immediately. What 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.680 about codependency Does that that trigger yourself out as well? Yeah, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.360 because think about it like this, codependency is you can't 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.040 It's an extreme version of I am half a person 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.400 and I need another half a person to be whole. Right, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.520 It's not I'm at a whole individual. This other person 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.000 as a whole individual, and together we can be a 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.160 whole couple or a whole partnership, or you know, whatever 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.280 the case may be, whatever your relationship is to that person. 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.119 Codependency is really about we have to really sort of 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.040 lean on each other so much that neither one of 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.800 us can stand on our own. And of course that's 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.119 going to feed self out because you think about it, 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.920 if they're things that you should normally be able to do, 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.040 without any difficulty. I think in our minds, the codependency 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.440 really sort of feeds this idea. Of course, I can't 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.560 do that unless I have this other person to do 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.359 whatever that thing is, So we don't give ourselves an 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.960 opportunity we are. Part of working through self doubt is 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.920 giving yourself enough data to see that when you're faced 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.879 with a difficult situation, you can get through it. But 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.760 if you're codependent and you always need that other person 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:29.960 to help you get through whatever it is, when do 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.760 you ever learn the lesson that you alone, like you 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.680 said in your daily own, are good enough by yourself 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.159 just as you are. You don't give yourself an opportunity. 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.920 So to me, of course, that naturally is going to 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.400 feed self doubt. And I think that's a natural tendency 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.360 for those of us who have anxiety, especially if it's 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.760 really high level anxiety where it's with us all the 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.600 time and it's activated all the time. That's a natural 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.399 tendency to go there because we're not trusting ourselves that 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.119 we can do things on our own, and of course 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:07.280 we can't. We just need practice. Yeah, So how do 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.360 you think the pandemic has affected or triggered people when 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.560 it comes to self doubt, just that being forced to 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.600 be alone all the time. It is, Yeah, you're forced 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.639 to be alone with your thoughts, and you think about it, 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.359 you're you also don't have opportunities to practice. Again, My 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.440 thing is always about you gotta practice behaviors to learn 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.720 them and integrate them into your life day to day. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.080 When do you get to practice things like, say, for example, 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.240 one of your things is you're socially shock, but you're 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.639 really trying to work on engaging people. The pandemic forced 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:39.919 you to be in the house more so, when do 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.919 you get to practice and what do you do? You 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.160 revert back to the stuff that makes you feel comfortable, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.359 and sometimes the stuff that makes you feel comfortable. Remember 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:47.720 what it said, the devil you know, it's been in 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.320 a devil you don't know, but it's still a devil. 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.399 You're hanging out with that devil of self doubt and 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.120 it just you're allowing it to grow. I think there's 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:56.760 a part of it said that. I think there's a 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.440 part of it where we think about things like depression 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.840 and anxi siety often go together, right, So you're maybe 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.919 frustrated because you're in the house anxious, your anxiety is growing, 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.439 and then you get sad because your anxiety is getting worse, 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:12.879 and then it's just a vicious cycle. So when do 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.520 you get the opportunity to help pull yourself out of 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.399 that if you're not out of the house doing things 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.960 that help you relieve your anxiety. I remember one of 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:23.400 the things you said was you like to be out 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.359 in nature, Okay and right, and the nature and nature 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.480 helps you. I'm the same way. I like to be 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.919 outside running the walk, and especially we have like creeks 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.280 and streams by where I live. I love being by 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.720 the water. What happens if I can't get outside to 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.760 be by the water, I'm just sitting with that anxiety. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.000 And one more thing I'll add is people who are 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.520 able to do things like let's say you figured out 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.320 that exercise really helps you with your anxiety, and you 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.399 really like to go to the gym. During the pandemic, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.439 the gym was closed, right, so you couldn't go to 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.040 the gym, And now that it's open, maybe you're worried 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.679 about people are in there without masks. I don't go 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:01.240 in there, get no germs. I don't want to get 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.639 be exposed to COVID and so you keep yourself in 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.320 the house. So I think there are lots of ways 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.480 in which, to your point, the pandemic and isolation and 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:13.640 quarantine have really fed people's anxieties, not intentionally, but it's 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.960 just a byproduct. So what are the different things, Like, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.680 are there exercises or that we can do to just 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.800 kind of help us with this, you know, things that 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:31.280 we can do to build up our self confidence. Absolutely, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.600 so I think it's baby steps. So one of the 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.879 things we teach people when you're teaching them how to 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.159 manage anxiety is something called exposure treatment. I think that 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.840 without getting too formal, we can expose ourselves to things 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.320 step by step, in little baby steps to help us 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.520 get more acclimated to doing those things and develop more 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.560 confidence in ourselves that we can accomplish those things. So, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.680 for example, like when you said your husband was talking 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.040 to you about going to this event by yourself, I 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.560 think an example of that might be can you sit quietly? 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:05.400 This is what I teach my patients when I work 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.760 with patients. Can you sit quietly and just visualize what 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.960 would it be like to show up at that event. 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.280 Let's just start there, work on breathing, what do you 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.119 need to do to help yourself be calm in the moment. 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:20.280