Speaker 1: It happened here. The thing that happened here was anti
Speaker 1: abortion terrorism at high and Christopher Wong. I'm posting this.
Speaker 1: We're doing this really speedy with me, Sharne, Robert Garrison,
Speaker 1: and Sophie. Hi. Yeah, Hi, don't feel too speedy. I
Speaker 1: mean this is an important Yeah, we're we're we're going
Speaker 1: through the interest. We can get to the we can
Speaker 1: get to the content faster. Get to the meat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's get to the fucking meat. Let's get to the
Speaker 1: sandwich portion of the I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: We're talking about terrorism, Sophie, your favorite thing. Christ saved
Speaker 1: the day. So okay, well, we've we've talked about sort
Speaker 1: of abortion as a as a legal issue, but running
Speaker 1: parallel to the sort of legal electoral pain against abortion
Speaker 1: was a wave, a systemic campaign of terror that ranged
Speaker 1: Trevor from you know, sort of individual personal humiliation and
Speaker 1: terrorization of individual women seeking abortion to like nail bombs
Speaker 1: and blowing abortion providers heads off with shotguns. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's it's extremely bad, obviously, but I think there's
Speaker 1: a tendency among people who look at antibution violence is
Speaker 1: sort of like isolated from its historical context, which is that, Okay,
Speaker 1: the American right has always rolled by terror from like
Speaker 1: literally its earliest extermination campaigns against addition as people who
Speaker 1: like whose land they stole to, you know, the sort
Speaker 1: of horrific psychological abuse and violence inflicted against slaves on
Speaker 1: their own plantation. Who there's an entire history of like
Speaker 1: denying abortion people to slaves for numerous reasons. So you know,
Speaker 1: there's no reason really to expect that anti abortion militants
Speaker 1: like wouldn't be violent. And I think it's worth noting
Speaker 1: that that the tactics of of the sort of militant
Speaker 1: wing of the anti orsition movements, which are things like
Speaker 1: our arson bombings and assassination are these these are the
Speaker 1: key tactics of the of the segregationist movement when they're
Speaker 1: finding against integration and you know, low and behold, like
Speaker 1: as as abortion becomes the political glue for the right,
Speaker 1: after they sort of okay, well they sort of losified
Speaker 1: over integration, they lose the ability to legally say like
Speaker 1: that you can't do integration, but a lot of the
Speaker 1: sort of factors segregation like still exists. But yeah, like
Speaker 1: as I do that, like you still see you know,
Speaker 1: you see a new generation of sort of right wing
Speaker 1: militants like taking the tactics of the old right wing
Speaker 1: militants and using them to kill people, which is to add, yeah,
Speaker 1: for the for the record, yes, that is our official position.
Speaker 1: We're taking up bold stands here radicals. So I think
Speaker 1: we should start with someone who was not killing people,
Speaker 1: because I think it's it's useful to see the sort
Speaker 1: of like the arc of of how this movement goes.
Speaker 1: So John O'Keefe was a Catholic anti war protester. He
Speaker 1: his thing was okay, so he's anti abortion, right, but
Speaker 1: he wants to fuse like the anti nuclear anti war
Speaker 1: movements with the anti abortion movements sort of in the
Speaker 1: wake of Roe v. Wade. And this doesn't work because
Speaker 1: the anti war and the answer nuclear movements are like
Speaker 1: driven by leftist and feminists and they're like no, like
Speaker 1: funk off, like we're not gonna like we want people
Speaker 1: to have abortions, so you know, but but he he,
Speaker 1: he still is like dead set that there should be
Speaker 1: this sort of like direct actually against abortion clinics. And
Speaker 1: he managed to convince this convince this like quicker peace
Speaker 1: activist named Charles Fager to like teach the anti abortion
Speaker 1: movement the sort of like techniques of like the civil
Speaker 1: rights movements and do like no violence ofilius obedience, and
Speaker 1: so people like like in the in the early seventies,
Speaker 1: like as az Row like is happening, people start changing
Speaker 1: themselves to abortion clinics, and you know, like, I think
Speaker 1: this is if if you've been around the left long enough,
Speaker 1: like these are tactics, I think you'd recognize. But these
Speaker 1: these are very very different campaigns. Then you're sort of
Speaker 1: like chanting yourself to a tree like the And the
Speaker 1: biggest difference is like the the extent to which the
Speaker 1: focus is just purely on terrorizing people. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to read a quote of like what these protests actually
Speaker 1: look like, um from the book Living in the Crosshairs,
Speaker 1: The Untold Stories of Anti Abortion Terrorism. The protesters stand
Speaker 1: at the entrance to the clinics parking lot and badger
Speaker 1: the patients. When they come in, they get screamed at.
Speaker 1: The protesters write down their license plates, they send them cards,
Speaker 1: They make phone calls to their homes. Protesters also swarm
Speaker 1: clinics and harass the people who work there. Those window blinds.
Speaker 1: Christina Who's works at a clinic, explained while pointing at
Speaker 1: the huge windows that surround the conference table in one
Speaker 1: of her clients. You pull them down, you can look
Speaker 1: through them and you could find the protesters at the
Speaker 1: windows looking in. And Krista, who's the person who's talking
Speaker 1: about this, like she describes like the like these protesters
Speaker 1: would walk up to her and like say her kids names,
Speaker 1: you know, in order to get like the doctor into
Speaker 1: this clinic who is doing the abortions, like they have
Speaker 1: to smuggle him in like that, he can't park in
Speaker 1: the parking lot because the abortion protesters will get to him,
Speaker 1: so they have to they have to like smuggle him
Speaker 1: in in in Christa's car. And like even then people
Speaker 1: follow them constantly, Like the doctors and nurses have to
Speaker 1: like change the roots to work every day. They have
Speaker 1: these like decoys they have to use. Um. Like yeah,
Speaker 1: and for the record, I've gotten reports from folks who
Speaker 1: work for abortion access organizations saying they are now in
Speaker 1: multiple states using drones to follow people as they leave
Speaker 1: the Jesus their their license playing numbers. Yeah that God,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. But it's yeah, like these people like Krista,
Speaker 1: the person I was talking about, like she she had
Speaker 1: to transfer her kids to a private school that like
Speaker 1: knew what her job was so that her kids wouldn't
Speaker 1: get harassed. And like, well, we'll come back to this
Speaker 1: sort of quote unquote non violent stuff later, but like
Speaker 1: even in it's sort of like non violent phase, this
Speaker 1: is a terror campaign, like the the the goal of
Speaker 1: this is to terrorize everyone involved, like stalking them, by
Speaker 1: intimidating them, by harassing them, to get them to not
Speaker 1: do abortions anymore, making patients or people that want abortions
Speaker 1: too afraid to get them, and people that provide them
Speaker 1: too afraid to provide them. Yeah. Yeah, And but you
Speaker 1: know this doesn't really work in the seventies, and but
Speaker 1: by the time you shoot the eighties, it starts to
Speaker 1: get really violent. Um in nice and eight two or
Speaker 1: is this guy named Donnie Ben don Benny Anderson. It
Speaker 1: is two nephews, Matt and Wayne Moore carry out the
Speaker 1: first anti abortion, the first action of this this right
Speaker 1: wig anti abortion. Also they're like really anti gay, Like
Speaker 1: they they have a thing later on where they like
Speaker 1: they have this giant celebration for like the Saudias beheading
Speaker 1: too gay dudes or three gay dudes like they're they're horrible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this this network is called the Army of God. And
Speaker 1: oh these guys there, that sounds familiar, Yeah, they're they're
Speaker 1: this very actually in some ways like they're they were
Speaker 1: very sort of quintessentially modern terrorist organization and that like
Speaker 1: they don't they don't have like a command structure. It's
Speaker 1: not even so much essentialized cells. It's just like people
Speaker 1: just sort of can freely affiliate to it. And like
Speaker 1: he used his name to carry out attacks. And the
Speaker 1: first one of these is it's it's this guy, Johnny
Speaker 1: Benny Anderson. He kidnaps Dr Hector Zavalos and his wife
Speaker 1: Jean and originally, like the their their plan is to
Speaker 1: kill them, um don Benny Anderson like he but what
Speaker 1: he writes about it is that he has been talking
Speaker 1: to God and he has been talking to art Change,
Speaker 1: to the archangel Michael, and they have commanded him to
Speaker 1: go and kill this person. And eventually, like negotiators fortunately
Speaker 1: are able to talk them down, and like the doctor
Speaker 1: makes this like it tells them like yeah, no, no no,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do abortions anymore. That they let them go.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think like it is important to note
Speaker 1: that like among people who are like this hardcore and
Speaker 1: this isn't you know, I said, like, there are people
Speaker 1: a lot of people who more moderate than this, Like
Speaker 1: the the whole sort of talking to God thing like
Speaker 1: that is not uncommon. No, that is like very good. No,
Speaker 1: these are all people who in their churches will like
Speaker 1: say a bunch of gibberish words and tell everyone each
Speaker 1: other that they're speaking in like the secret language of
Speaker 1: God that God has like speak into their brains, speaking
Speaker 1: in tongues. Yes, yeah, so like and yeah, like and
Speaker 1: I think I think like there's some tendency to like,
Speaker 1: like I've seen I've seen people trying to write this
Speaker 1: office people who are mentally illms like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. These are desearching me. They don't believe in
Speaker 1: a different world than you do, and they're willing to
Speaker 1: use violence to make their world real. Yeah, and the
Speaker 1: letter that they right, I like, why while they're holding
Speaker 1: these people captives, says quote, those who truly love God
Speaker 1: would kill the baby killers. And it turned out later
Speaker 1: that they've been funding their activities by robbing abortion clinics.
Speaker 1: And actually that's not that's the thing that doesn't that
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen any of the like,
Speaker 1: like I don't think this doesn't get included in like
Speaker 1: the list of terrorist things people do against abortion clinics.
Speaker 1: But they get robbed a lot, Like there's like a
Speaker 1: lot of these builitants are just robbing abortion clinics so
Speaker 1: to fund their stuff. Um. And and this is again
Speaker 1: like the thing you have to keep in mind when
Speaker 1: you're trying to and it like, if you literally believe
Speaker 1: the things that these people literally believe, this is the
Speaker 1: only moral thing to do. Yeah, if there if there
Speaker 1: were just trying like get in their heads, if there
Speaker 1: were an organization literally murdering babies every single day, this
Speaker 1: would be the right thing to do. That's like you
Speaker 1: have to actually like they're not crazy. They fundamentally exist
Speaker 1: in a world that is is different from from the
Speaker 1: one you live in as the world in a fucking
Speaker 1: Marvel comic. Like it's it's it's just another reality that
Speaker 1: they exist within. Yeah, and like you get sort of
Speaker 1: like you get like like I don't know, you're called
Speaker 1: like people who are trying to play the centrist ango
Speaker 1: who were like, oh, like people on the left don't
Speaker 1: understand that. It's like it's not about autonomy for them.
Speaker 1: They literally believe they're killing babies. And it's like that
Speaker 1: doesn't like a no, but like yeah, like yeah, the
Speaker 1: fact that they literally believe that abortion is killing children.
Speaker 1: The only thing that does is make them more fanatical
Speaker 1: and more militants. And it's like, yeah, like I used
Speaker 1: to sort of believe, like I used to believe that,
Speaker 1: like oh, like people don't understand they really think they're
Speaker 1: killing babies thing. And then I went to college and
Speaker 1: I like read it started reading about the history of genocides,
Speaker 1: and I started reading about like what how how common
Speaker 1: it is for people who commit genocides to literally believe
Speaker 1: that if they don't do this genocide, that the people
Speaker 1: the genocide and you you are going to kill them. And
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, oh no, no, that that actually
Speaker 1: that just makes you more likely to do violence, Like
Speaker 1: it's and and this this goes exactly how to expect
Speaker 1: in fact that the and this is one of the
Speaker 1: other things that they're very effective about, which is each
Speaker 1: attack like radicalizes more people to start doing attacks. So
Speaker 1: remember remember John O'Keefe, the guy who was doing the
Speaker 1: non violent stuff, Like he starts questioning whether non violence
Speaker 1: is like the right tactic and he never like bombs anything,
Speaker 1: but he likes stops condemning violence in public. And this
Speaker 1: this goes really really really badly really quickly. Um, the
Speaker 1: Army of God publishes this like it's initially a very
Speaker 1: clandestine thing, but they publish his manual about how to
Speaker 1: attack abortion clinics, but has stuff from like like pouring
Speaker 1: concrete overheating pipes, how to make bombs. Um, they have
Speaker 1: this thing that the antibortion people do a lot, which
Speaker 1: is pouring bucolic acid, which smells like it is the
Speaker 1: thing that makes vomits smell bad. Like you you can
Speaker 1: you can smell like two parts per ten million like
Speaker 1: of this thing like in a room, and they'll they'll
Speaker 1: take like a syringe and they'll inject it into a
Speaker 1: facility and like like one drop of this stuff is
Speaker 1: enough that like you can smell it like months later
Speaker 1: there's no way to like easily clean it. And eventually
Speaker 1: like they're pouring gallons of this stuff like into abortion clinics,
Speaker 1: into the ventilation system. Yeah. Yeah, it's there are more
Speaker 1: than a hundred of these attacks today too, Like it's
Speaker 1: they've they've done this a lot. Yeah, by four, this
Speaker 1: whole thing goes into overdrive. Um, I'm going to read
Speaker 1: a quote from from the book Armed for Life, The
Speaker 1: Army of God and anti abortion terror. In the United States,
Speaker 1: the National Abortion Federation identifies thirty incidents of arson or
Speaker 1: bombing in night four, exceeding the previous seven years combined.
Speaker 1: The series of bombing is included, but was not limited, to,
Speaker 1: the offices of the National Abortion Fund and the Americans
Speaker 1: Civil Liberties Union in Washington, d c. As well as
Speaker 1: abortion clinics in Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware. The signature of
Speaker 1: the Army of God was also found in a subsequent
Speaker 1: clinic bombing in Saratosa, Florida. Um. One of the other
Speaker 1: things that they do that is that is great is
Speaker 1: so they have have a declaration of war that the
Speaker 1: Army of God sends. They also like, like specifically send
Speaker 1: a death threat to Harry Blackman, who was the black
Speaker 1: Man was who was the guy who wrote the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court justice who wrote Roe v. Wade, which is like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a fun thing if you've been
Speaker 1: like the whole discourse cycle. But oh, we shouldn't protest
Speaker 1: that these houses Like yeah, man, a terrorist group like
Speaker 1: threatened to kill the justice who wrote this thing, like
Speaker 1: and and that guy, um, the guy who wrote that
Speaker 1: eventually carried out like this enormous bombing campaign where he
Speaker 1: started strapping like twenty pound like liquor pro pain tanks
Speaker 1: to dumpowder bombs and blowing up clinics with them. And
Speaker 1: this stuff spreads are spreads like wildfire. People start using
Speaker 1: the Army of God's bomb recipes to attack clinics in
Speaker 1: other ways, like yeah, we talked, We've talked about so
Speaker 1: of the other campaign stuff that they use. Um and
Speaker 1: and this this starts to like a lot of the
Speaker 1: people who wind up in the full on terrorism stuff
Speaker 1: where like people who used to be like non violent protesters,
Speaker 1: So Shelley Shelley Shannon, who who had previously been like
Speaker 1: a non violent protester like goes violent and ninety two
Speaker 1: and starts doing these like fautric acid attacks and then
Speaker 1: she graduates to arson. She attacks seven clinics, offices and
Speaker 1: health centers. And these aren't like when I say attacks,
Speaker 1: like this isn't like they threw a ball off at it.
Speaker 1: Like she is making napalm and like detonating napalm bombs
Speaker 1: like inside of these clinics, it is do they even
Speaker 1: care if people are inside? Or so? It's weird. Initially
Speaker 1: they're they're targeting empty buildings, but they're like they're like
Speaker 1: working themselves up to it, and like they they start
Speaker 1: to be they they you could read this in their writing,
Speaker 1: like they they they're working themselves up to a point
Speaker 1: where they're like, wow, okay, if there was a person
Speaker 1: in this building, we don't really care, and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and but nice ninety two the Army of God like
Speaker 1: specifically in it in its manual, like as justification for
Speaker 1: killing people, m and lo and behold. One year later
Speaker 1: after this is one of the other strategies to use
Speaker 1: what what what was their justification they're killing It's like, well,
Speaker 1: they're killing babies, and they have to have a bunch
Speaker 1: of Bible verses that they sit and they're like, now
Speaker 1: we can kill people because they're killing babies. It's great.
Speaker 1: It's that's that's truly like in writing to horrify. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like like literally the next year there's all these
Speaker 1: they start doing this thing where they put wanted posters
Speaker 1: with like an abortion doctor's name in them, like like
Speaker 1: literally like stuff out of like a like a Battled
Speaker 1: West movie and they'll have like their name and like
Speaker 1: where they live, and like that fact that they're a
Speaker 1: doctor and say they kill babies, and uh so you
Speaker 1: know in in in in three, these posters go up
Speaker 1: for this doctor named Dr David Gunn and he's one
Speaker 1: day walking back to his car when he gets shot
Speaker 1: three times in the back by Michael Griffin and he
Speaker 1: he dies, and he he is the first that David
Speaker 1: Gunn is the first bushed provider to be killed, and
Speaker 1: he is not going to be the last. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: this immediately and you know, the moment someone does it,
Speaker 1: like it opens the floodgates and suddenly everyone is doing it.
Speaker 1: And so you know, this makes people like Shelley Shannon
Speaker 1: and who we talked about like setting off napalm bombs,
Speaker 1: who until this point has only like bombed anti buildings.
Speaker 1: Like she starts like considering killing people and a few
Speaker 1: months later she shoots Dr George Tiller. And if you're
Speaker 1: thinking to yourself, hold on weight, I thought Dr George
Speaker 1: Tiller was killed in two thousand and nine and not,
Speaker 1: you are right, Shelley's assassination attempts like she shot him
Speaker 1: like in both arms but he survived to be murdered
Speaker 1: a a decade and a half later. Um. Meanwhile, there's
Speaker 1: this guy named Paul Hill who's just like a like
Speaker 1: a bustion clinic like protester, right, he urges in like
Speaker 1: the national media scene because he's he's like the he's
Speaker 1: like the guy who will go on TV and defend
Speaker 1: Michael Griffin killing killing a doctor, and they just let
Speaker 1: him do this. He does the whole fucking talk show circuits.
Speaker 1: They just let him do this to defend on Life TV.
Speaker 1: He's on all of the mainstream networks to defend killing
Speaker 1: abortion doctors. And he does it again with Shelley Shannon's
Speaker 1: attempt to kill George Schiller. And a year later, uh,
Speaker 1: Paul Hill walked up to Dr Joe Britton Britain and
Speaker 1: blew his head off with the shotgun wounds. His wife
Speaker 1: turns around and then killed an abortion uh like at
Speaker 1: clinic escort named James Barrett. Like they had this guy
Speaker 1: on TV fucking every night saying that he like calling
Speaker 1: the saying that killing abortion doctors is justified, and then
Speaker 1: he fucking kills he blew an abortion doctor's head off
Speaker 1: with a shotgun. The next year, well, and uh yet
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm what's exciting is that I'm sure
Speaker 1: that when there are more attack x uh by pro
Speaker 1: choice oriented people. Uh, at no point will anyone get
Speaker 1: brought on TV network to say anything. But but asked
Speaker 1: that tops get more money to crack down on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like just the medias in which she was awful.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about this more in a bit because
Speaker 1: it gets even worse. Um so that that same year,
Speaker 1: in ninety four, there's a gunman named John Scali the
Speaker 1: Third who walks into a building and murders Shannon Loney,
Speaker 1: who is a social worker in anti abortion like she's
Speaker 1: she's an anti abortion and an anti child, a brief
Speaker 1: advocate who's working at Plant Parenthood, and he just walks
Speaker 1: and shoots her. She shoots at a bunch of the
Speaker 1: doctors and the patients and luckily they all survived. But
Speaker 1: then he goes to another clinic and he kills social
Speaker 1: worker Leanne Nichols, who was like working at the front
Speaker 1: desk there, and he's eventually arrested. He gets away with
Speaker 1: both of these ones, but then he goes and tries
Speaker 1: to shoot up a third clinic and that one finally
Speaker 1: like he gets arrested for. But like and the other
Speaker 1: thing is like that the third clank that he shoots
Speaker 1: it like that's a clank that already had already been
Speaker 1: bombed as the claimk that they've been protest that for years.
Speaker 1: And he's you know, he goes there and he shoots
Speaker 1: at these these people and he kills two more people,
Speaker 1: and yeah, and it's you know, and they just like
Speaker 1: keep doing this. And one of the sort of incredibly
Speaker 1: grotesque things is that like, Okay, so the Army of
Speaker 1: God has this. They have a website, right, and their
Speaker 1: website has these these things they call like the Prisoners
Speaker 1: of Christ, who are like people who are like it's
Speaker 1: like prisoners of conscience but like Christ, who they like
Speaker 1: celebrate and the like raise funds for. And one of
Speaker 1: the ways they do this is they have this thing
Speaker 1: called the White Rose Banquet, which is like one of
Speaker 1: the most offensive names I've ever seen for an organization.
Speaker 1: That's it's named after the White Rose Society, which is
Speaker 1: just like Christian anti Nazi like nonviolent resistance group who's
Speaker 1: like leaders were all killed by Hitler for opposing Hitler.
Speaker 1: And they they are things like well, okay, so the
Speaker 1: abortion is the is the new Holocaust, and so you
Speaker 1: know they have this banquet that's like in support of
Speaker 1: these terrorists and they at the first one. Then they
Speaker 1: released this thing called the Nuremberg File Project, which was
Speaker 1: this like it was this archive of like abortion providers.
Speaker 1: It has like their names, has their addresses as photos,
Speaker 1: it has their phone numbers. Um. They target like they
Speaker 1: and it's not just like doctors, right, they target clinic staff,
Speaker 1: the target security guards, stark at anyone who's who's around there,
Speaker 1: and that they have like these like lists of different
Speaker 1: categories of people. So first, if you're still alive, your
Speaker 1: name will be in like bolded black. If you've been wounded,
Speaker 1: your name will be grade like grade out. And then
Speaker 1: if you die, there's like if you get killed or
Speaker 1: you die, there's a strike through through it. So this
Speaker 1: is this is a killed list they've assembled and this
Speaker 1: is just like going around the internet. There's enormous numbers
Speaker 1: of people who like providers who are who are put
Speaker 1: on this and they also like the White Rose siety,
Speaker 1: like at this bankot they start putting out wanted posters
Speaker 1: with like a thousand dollar rewards for closing a clinic
Speaker 1: and for like convincing a doctor to stop giving abortions,
Speaker 1: and because these people are just like like I can't
Speaker 1: have is enough like literal monsters. In the auction off
Speaker 1: the gun that Shelly Shannon used to kill George Chiller,
Speaker 1: that's like a fundraising thing. Yeah, and uh, there's a
Speaker 1: number of things you think about that. One of that
Speaker 1: is one of them is the fact that the local
Speaker 1: police department absolutely had to be um involved in that
Speaker 1: because normally murder weapons don't go back to anyone that
Speaker 1: they're destroyed, um, which means the police were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we absolutely want you guys to be able to auction
Speaker 1: this gun on cool stuff. The fear tactics they would
Speaker 1: be like, of course they would work if your whole
Speaker 1: if your name is on this list and you have
Speaker 1: a family and you're you know what I mean, like
Speaker 1: it's it's I will say that there is an interesting
Speaker 1: thing with this, were like a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of people who like get targeted by this stuff, like
Speaker 1: it just pisces them off and they can even more
Speaker 1: committed to it, which is like incredibly rad But also
Speaker 1: like Jesus Christ, they just they have these abortion provider
Speaker 1: kill lists, and people on this list get killed. It's encouraged,
Speaker 1: like the people are encouraging to kill them. And like
Speaker 1: they do this in the open, like there are like
Speaker 1: literally like Christian radio stations will like they will be
Speaker 1: they'll they'll do this thing where like they'll they'll they'll
Speaker 1: start listing like like like by name and the addresses
Speaker 1: of like where the abortion providers dear them are and
Speaker 1: then start talking about the biblical verses to justify killing them.
Speaker 1: And then they will literally say on the radio, go
Speaker 1: kill this person. And they could just do this. No
Speaker 1: one stopped them ever. They just got away with this
Speaker 1: for decades and decades. So what one of one of
Speaker 1: the other. I think this bombing is famous, but I
Speaker 1: don't think the reason why it happened is famous. Um
Speaker 1: so there's a guy Eric Rudolph. Oh yeah, it was
Speaker 1: was wondering when they we're gonna talk about Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's right now. So so Eric Rudolph is most
Speaker 1: famous for nailed bombing Atlanta Olympics. He did. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: put entering hundreds of peace yeah yeah, he enters people,
Speaker 1: he kills killing killed one. Yeah, it was more special
Speaker 1: forces guy right, yeah yeah yeah yeah, And He says
Speaker 1: that his commander in ar assault regiment taught him how
Speaker 1: to make bombs like out of out of like scrap stuff.
Speaker 1: So he like yeah, so okay, so and he does
Speaker 1: his next six. He doesn't get caught, right this this
Speaker 1: this guy, this guy detonated a nail bomb at the
Speaker 1: fucking Olympics. And then at then a year later. Oh,
Speaker 1: don't worry, we're gonna We're gonna a year later, this
Speaker 1: twice next year. The next year, he sets off a
Speaker 1: bunch of bombs, and he sets off a bomb at
Speaker 1: an abortion clinic. And this is like, this is this
Speaker 1: is a double tap bomb. There is a there is
Speaker 1: a bomb in a trash can behind that that's that's
Speaker 1: designed to kill the first responders. Um, this is seven
Speaker 1: people and the seven and it kills the police officer
Speaker 1: actually does it? Oh I didn't, but yeah, it kills
Speaker 1: the police officer. Yeah. And then like the next one,
Speaker 1: he bombs in Atlanta nightclub and win six people. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry specifically, yeah, he bombed, he bombs, I bought, he
Speaker 1: bombs a gay bar. Um and there were that one
Speaker 1: he also like in the adjacent parking lot, because again
Speaker 1: he was trying to kill the first responders, that the
Speaker 1: police find a bomb and diffuse it before it can
Speaker 1: go off. And again they still don't get this guy
Speaker 1: the not until two thousand three. The next year, he
Speaker 1: bombs another rebution clinic with a nail bomb. In this
Speaker 1: kind of just got time, he kills a security guard
Speaker 1: named Robert Sanderson, and like permanently injures a nurse name
Speaker 1: Emi Leons, who was like Emily Leon's who was he
Speaker 1: was left like half blind and like permanently made by
Speaker 1: the fact that again he set off a fucking nail
Speaker 1: bomb and he was not caught. He was not he
Speaker 1: was not caught for a while. Yeah, And I want
Speaker 1: to stop here and talk about like how the bombing
Speaker 1: stuff is carried in the media, right, Um, as best
Speaker 1: I could, talent, I went to look for this. No
Speaker 1: anarchist has killed someone with the bomb in the US
Speaker 1: for hundred years, Like Coral Marx was closer to seeing
Speaker 1: the moon landing than a baby born today is of
Speaker 1: seeing an anarchist kill someoneos with the bomb. And yet
Speaker 1: anarchism everywhere is so constantly associated with bombings. Meanwhile, the
Speaker 1: anti abortion freaks fucking they bombed the nine Olympics with
Speaker 1: a nail bomb, and he on when he was in
Speaker 1: his trial, he released to benifesto talking about how deadly
Speaker 1: force is justified against people who operate abortion clinics. He talks,
Speaker 1: he talks about a whole whole bunch of like whole
Speaker 1: bunch of anti gay stuff, whole bunch of anti abortion stuff,
Speaker 1: like and he's like he's given them like like on
Speaker 1: his trial just used to like read his manifesto. It's
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty wild. Where are the pro life activists
Speaker 1: when it comes to taking life? That's interesting, Well, but
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing though. They're all they're all in
Speaker 1: favor of of like, yeah, there are doing that. It's
Speaker 1: self defense or its defensive, these these these babics. I'm
Speaker 1: not the defense of those who can't defend themselves. What
Speaker 1: they'll talk about it is entirely within them, the moral
Speaker 1: universe within they operate. It's it is entirely consistent. It's
Speaker 1: one of those things. Whenever like liberals will be like,
Speaker 1: why don't they do this or why don't do they that?
Speaker 1: That's not pro life, and it's like, well, because the
Speaker 1: word doesn't mean the same thing to you. Well, and
Speaker 1: and the guy's doing this terror because like you will,
Speaker 1: occasionally you'll get some I mean, some of the pro
Speaker 1: life people oppose this because they think it's bad optics, right,
Speaker 1: But apparently it's not bad optics because again, like, who
Speaker 1: are the people who get fucking remembered as bombers? Like
Speaker 1: and I want to I want to read a quote
Speaker 1: from from the FBI. This is this is This is
Speaker 1: from from the book Armed for Life. In in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, the year with the highest abortion clinic bombings
Speaker 1: to date, FBI Director William Webster went on television and
Speaker 1: informed the public, quote, bombing a bank or a post
Speaker 1: office is terrorism. Bombing an abortion clinic is not an
Speaker 1: active terrorism because the objective is social. Is social and
Speaker 1: anti abortion violence, and I don't believe it currently meets
Speaker 1: our definition of terrorism. Reagan's called Reagan called the It's worse, okay,
Speaker 1: Reagan called called the bombings. The abortion clinic bomb is
Speaker 1: quote anarchist activities. Like they're fucking they're blowing up abortion
Speaker 1: clinics and we're still getting fucking blamed for it. Like
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, I don't know a lot about anything. So
Speaker 1: this is a lot of this is used to me,
Speaker 1: which is wild that I'm hearing about a lot of
Speaker 1: this for the first time. How have I not known
Speaker 1: about this? They bombed the Olympics and know what talks
Speaker 1: about it? Actually, like I was just losing my mind
Speaker 1: the whold like it's it's bad, and it's it's still happening.
Speaker 1: It's not. It's just like three people were killed and
Speaker 1: nine people were injured an attack on the Planned Parenthood
Speaker 1: clinic in Colorado back. Um, there's been over at least
Speaker 1: at least at least eleven murder is tied to of
Speaker 1: anti abortion uh like like action. I guess twenty six
Speaker 1: attempted murders, at least forty two bombings, two hundred arsons,
Speaker 1: and then thousands and thousands of more like assaults and
Speaker 1: random random incidents. We should also point out here when
Speaker 1: we're talking about the murder counts and murder count is
Speaker 1: lower vented actually is because the murder count doesn't count
Speaker 1: to people who like the Americans, like specifically the Americans
Speaker 1: who went to Canada to shoot abortion doctors and the
Speaker 1: Americans who went to Australia to shoot abortion doctors, both
Speaker 1: of which happened, and threats against abortion providers have increased
Speaker 1: exponentially just since just since, like they have more than quadrupled,
Speaker 1: like this is it's constant. It's been escalating at such
Speaker 1: a at such a rate that every year's data is
Speaker 1: insufficient for talking about the current period. Like it's it's
Speaker 1: you can't you can't even talk about it because all
Speaker 1: of the data is so inaccurate. Now that's how fast
Speaker 1: this stuff is accelerating. And and like there's there's a
Speaker 1: few other things that like, like you mentioned when we
Speaker 1: talked about the statistics. So one of the reason is
Speaker 1: the reason the death toll is like quote unquote only
Speaker 1: eleven is because bomb making is really hard and a
Speaker 1: lot of these bombs don't go off. So for example,
Speaker 1: in Canada, a worker right a clinic discovered a bomb
Speaker 1: with two pounds of nails in it that quote how
Speaker 1: to destruct a capability of a hundred feet um and
Speaker 1: you know, and also like I should put this out
Speaker 1: like okay, so like they they there's a lot of
Speaker 1: abotion doctors who are killed like outside of their clinics.
Speaker 1: But also there's a guy named James Copp who who
Speaker 1: shot he shot like four doctors and he shot them
Speaker 1: like in their homes like with with with an s
Speaker 1: KS like in their homes through their windows and he
Speaker 1: he killed Dr Barrett Slippy in in in the nineties
Speaker 1: and like and you know and like it. They like
Speaker 1: they keep doing stuff like this, Like in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one. I don't know if I wonder how many
Speaker 1: people actually remember this. Uh, there was this huge anthrax scare.
Speaker 1: What was an ancestor like that people were like they
Speaker 1: were later they were anthact attacks. People were like mailing
Speaker 1: people letters with anthrax in it, and so right, this
Speaker 1: is happening. Um, A guy named Clay Wagner since eight
Speaker 1: hundred letters signed by the RB of God with fake
Speaker 1: anthrax to plan players heard clinics in seventeen states and
Speaker 1: these antis packets like it's not just like flower, right,
Speaker 1: these antis packets have BT in it, which is there's
Speaker 1: a pesticide that is so similar to anthrax of the
Speaker 1: package just texted tested positive. And so all of these people,
Speaker 1: these eight eight hundred clinics who opened these letters like
Speaker 1: thought they were going to die because they opened they
Speaker 1: opened a letter there was white potter in it. It
Speaker 1: said it was anthrax and then it tested positive for anthrax.
Speaker 1: And like to this day, a bunch of abortion clinics
Speaker 1: like have like like that when when they're they're like
Speaker 1: when they opened their mail, they have they have like
Speaker 1: a special room that is like sealed off so that
Speaker 1: if they open the mail, they open a chemical weapon,
Speaker 1: only the person reading the mail will die. Well. Great,
Speaker 1: that's the side of a good system. Yeah. They also
Speaker 1: a lot of planned parenthoods have something kind of similar
Speaker 1: set up with the receptionist where basically the way it's
Speaker 1: set up is that if there's a mass shooter, the
Speaker 1: receptionists can like seal off everyone but them. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like a thing that you know you're getting into if
Speaker 1: you're in a plant, if you if you're in that gig,
Speaker 1: it's like someone might come in and I might have
Speaker 1: to die to try and stop them from getting to
Speaker 1: everyone else. It's it's bad. I mean, just just from
Speaker 1: there was a hundred increase in reports of assaults and
Speaker 1: batteries uh inside and outside clinics. UM, there was double
Speaker 1: the amount of death threats from and things have not
Speaker 1: gotten better since twenty So we're just waiting for all
Speaker 1: that new data to come in because oh boy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think there's another thing when we need to
Speaker 1: keep in mind with this data is that there's so
Speaker 1: much stuff doesn't get reported. All of those numbers are low,
Speaker 1: every single one of them is normally low. And there
Speaker 1: was a bunch of other stuff that is people do
Speaker 1: that just never gets talked about. Um, well, okay, so
Speaker 1: I think before we get into that, I do want
Speaker 1: to talk about the most famous uh abortion provide you
Speaker 1: who got murdered, which is Dr George Tiller, who is
Speaker 1: like a genuinely incredibly heroic figure who he was keep
Speaker 1: doing it after the first time you were shot, Like
Speaker 1: you would be a hero if you did it up
Speaker 1: until you got shot, going after like he got shot.
Speaker 1: He's a his clinic got bombed. There was an entire eye. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's clinic up on what was the other one? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he he was. He was one of the he was
Speaker 1: I think he was actually I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was that anthrax threat or like a different anthrax threat,
Speaker 1: but like people, people like he kept getting anthrax threats. Um.
Speaker 1: There was this thing called Operation Rescue, which is I
Speaker 1: guess that there's still version of us around. But they're
Speaker 1: these like they do these like giant like non violent
Speaker 1: severe disito obedience campaigns were like thousands of people will
Speaker 1: will will will show up to a place and they'll
Speaker 1: like change themselves the buildings and they'll like prevent anyone
Speaker 1: from getting in, and they'll like terrorize everyone around there.
Speaker 1: And his office is one of the is one of
Speaker 1: the ones that was targeted, which is like in there
Speaker 1: like that they had this big campaign called Operation Rescue.
Speaker 1: It was targeting like him specifically. And there is one
Speaker 1: fun story in this which is they tried this in Minneapolis,
Speaker 1: Nett three, but they got their asss cap by a
Speaker 1: bunch of anarchists and had to all run away, which
Speaker 1: was extremely funny. But yeah, like I'm the The other
Speaker 1: thing that that's important with with Tiller specifically is the
Speaker 1: extent to which the right wing media is like like
Speaker 1: culpable in this um like Tiller. Like Bill o'reiley specifically
Speaker 1: is constantly yelling about Tiller. He calls Tiller the baby killer.
Speaker 1: He accuses him of running a quote operating a death mill,
Speaker 1: executing baby is about to be born, and destroying fetuses
Speaker 1: for just about any reason right up until birthdate. Uh.
Speaker 1: He On one of his rants, he he literally says
Speaker 1: like right before well not like pretty close to when
Speaker 1: Tiller ists assassinated. Uh quote, if I could get my
Speaker 1: hands on tiller, well, you know, can't be vigilantes, can't
Speaker 1: do that. It's just a figure of speech. But despicable.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it doesn't get worse? Does it get worse? No? Wow,
Speaker 1: So he's just like this is just like the ship
Speaker 1: that that he's that that he's being subjected to by
Speaker 1: the media. And then oh lo and behold he gets murdered.
Speaker 1: You know what doesn't I don't know, I have nothing
Speaker 1: to say. It doesn't do uh coordinated you know what
Speaker 1: would be dope? Here here's what I'll say. You know,
Speaker 1: it would be dope if when somebody came to shoot
Speaker 1: George Tyler that person had gotten shot repeatedly. That would
Speaker 1: have been cool. M that would have been neat. But anyway,
Speaker 1: here's ads and we're back with more horrifying stuff. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of focus I think, you know,
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of media coverage recently about this,
Speaker 1: just because, like you knows, as a reaction to the
Speaker 1: incredibly bad faith Like, oh, look at the sanctity of
Speaker 1: people protesting at the Supreme Court. It's like they blew
Speaker 1: people's heads off. The shotguns but you know, and like
Speaker 1: that's good, and I'm really glad there's there's more media
Speaker 1: reporting about this, But I want to talk about you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's an incredible focus here on the shootings and bombings,
Speaker 1: and like there's good reason for that, But I want
Speaker 1: to talk about some other ship that the force birth
Speaker 1: fanatics do because it's horrifying. It doesn't get talked enough
Speaker 1: about enough. Um So, one of the people who gets
Speaker 1: interviewed in Living in the cross Hairs, which is a
Speaker 1: great book by the way, it's it's about I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't agree with all of its policy recommendations, but
Speaker 1: it's a book like interviewing like abortion providers about their experiences.
Speaker 1: One of the people they interview is this guy named
Speaker 1: Rodney Smith, who's an abortion doctor. Um and I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna read the stuff that they do to this guy
Speaker 1: because it's okay, So protesters show up to his son's wedding. Um,
Speaker 1: they burn his house and his farm down, They burns
Speaker 1: to death, They kill their dog, their cats, and all
Speaker 1: of their possessions. Wow. Yeah from the books help kill Babies.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me that the cats? Yeah, we will
Speaker 1: imagine im script did this Yeah, everyone would lose their minds.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read a quote about
Speaker 1: this from this book. Someone mailed a letter postmarked the
Speaker 1: morning of the fire justifying killing the animals on Rodney's
Speaker 1: farm because Rodney quote murdered little children. However, the letter
Speaker 1: was untraceable. Wow. They do this ship all the fucking time,
Speaker 1: and it never gets reported. Because the reason never gets
Speaker 1: reported is because when when when, when this this the
Speaker 1: city comes to investigate, They fucking destroyed the entire scene
Speaker 1: of the crime. They showed the entire scene of the
Speaker 1: crime so thoroughly that when the fire marshal showed up
Speaker 1: the day after, they tried to arrest um. They tried
Speaker 1: to arrest Rodney Smith Smith for evidence tampering because I
Speaker 1: thought that he had done it right. Yeah, that makes sense. Wow,
Speaker 1: And let's less lest you think this is the end
Speaker 1: of the ship, that that that this guy goes through, right,
Speaker 1: Like they when they find out he's like going to
Speaker 1: like a conference, or like they find out he's staying
Speaker 1: in hotel, that they do these campaigns where like they'll
Speaker 1: they'll do these mass collins to the hotel saying hey,
Speaker 1: there's this person here and if you don't kick them out,
Speaker 1: like we're going to protest all your branches. He gets
Speaker 1: kicked out of hotels. Um, he gets attacked by an
Speaker 1: anti abortion protester in the chambers of the Supreme Court,
Speaker 1: like that Supreme Court, the big one. How did they
Speaker 1: even get in the two the chambers of the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: He was just one of it was one of the
Speaker 1: people who was showing up at this thing, and that
Speaker 1: the guy like throws him out of his chair, grabs him,
Speaker 1: throws him out of his chair, picks up the chair
Speaker 1: and starts beating the share out of him with his
Speaker 1: own chair. In this is in the chambers of the
Speaker 1: Supreme courts. They beat an abortion doctor with his own chair.
Speaker 1: And you know, socially, Roddy had had security with him, right,
Speaker 1: because you know it it's yeah, when when you're abortion
Speaker 1: doctor and and people are this targeted at you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have securities. You don't get attacked like this. But
Speaker 1: the court wouldn't let him like bring his private security
Speaker 1: in and their rationalization was, uh, he had been assured
Speaker 1: that quote nothing ever happens in the Supreme Court. To
Speaker 1: think about this, right, you cannot find a news article
Speaker 1: about this. Right, a guy got beat up by these
Speaker 1: people in the Supreme Court. If literally anyone who was
Speaker 1: not a fucking forced birth anti abortion fanatic did this,
Speaker 1: there would have been a new cycle that would have
Speaker 1: lasted until the fucking end of time. There have been
Speaker 1: a movie and three shows made about it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there's just nothing well like that is wild, Like that
Speaker 1: is really showing like these things don't get These things
Speaker 1: aren't big problems, right because they aren't challenging to any
Speaker 1: kind of power structure. So they're allowed to happen because
Speaker 1: they're just reinforcing things. They're not actually challenging things. Um.
Speaker 1: But still it's very brazen. When you're killing like seventeen
Speaker 1: horses and going into the Supreme Court to beat someone
Speaker 1: with a chair, you would think that someone would say something,
Speaker 1: Um and I've never heard of this before either this
Speaker 1: I know, this is like the thing, the thing I
Speaker 1: want to emphasize about this. This is the things they
Speaker 1: did to one guy, right, one doctor. This is happening
Speaker 1: like this is right, Like this stuff, this kind of
Speaker 1: stuff is happening to people every fucking day across the country,
Speaker 1: and there is nothing there is jack shit. You might
Speaker 1: maybe see a report in local papers, like maybe it
Speaker 1: is a it is a it is a just an
Speaker 1: incredible campaign of terror. But this guy is like he
Speaker 1: is staggeringly based. Uh. Here this is quote from that book. Again,
Speaker 1: Rodney is used to this type of verbal abuse and
Speaker 1: sometimes reacting kinds. When a priest called him a murderer, Uh,
Speaker 1: Rodney responded by calling the priest a child molester. When
Speaker 1: the protesters told Rodney they were praying for him, he responded, no,
Speaker 1: you're praying upon us. There's a difference. So she rules
Speaker 1: and she likes she he'd been a doctor who like
Speaker 1: did other stuff and when they worshiped people. I think
Speaker 1: I think it was after they burned his house down.
Speaker 1: She was like, no, fuck you, I'm only going to
Speaker 1: do abortions now. She's exaggeratedly basic, like yeah, which which
Speaker 1: I guess also like this is this is a thing
Speaker 1: that like so like obviously, like I don't think any
Speaker 1: leftist has ever fucking lit people's horses on fire, not
Speaker 1: that I know of them, generally left generally they would
Speaker 1: have more of an instinct to free the horses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like you have to you have to be like genuinely
Speaker 1: monstrous to to light horses on fire, like they screamed
Speaker 1: like horses scream like when you like them on fire.
Speaker 1: I mean, and and and cats and dogs animal like
Speaker 1: an animal abust and animal murder. But it's it's like
Speaker 1: pretty pretty despicable. And there's uh just justifying it by
Speaker 1: saying it's because they were on the property of someone
Speaker 1: who helps gives abortions is some wild some wild thinking. Well,
Speaker 1: none of those what's are in the Bible. Actually there
Speaker 1: is there is a lot of animal murdering in the Bible.
Speaker 1: Never mind yeah, okay, well but but but but I mean,
Speaker 1: I I will say that there is a thing that
Speaker 1: can happen where if if you like, sometimes targeted protests
Speaker 1: on a person just like makes them bin for it,
Speaker 1: like dig into their beliefs. And that's on top and
Speaker 1: and and I think like here, I think like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are just stunning Lee Brave
Speaker 1: who go through this ship and just still keep doing
Speaker 1: it because like this is something that they believe in.
Speaker 1: And you know, and those aren't even like that extreme
Speaker 1: examples of like the kind of stuff that happens. Again
Speaker 1: again we've talked about like again nail bombs, right, like
Speaker 1: people were getting their heads blown off with shotguns. There's
Speaker 1: there's a systemic campaign of terror that has felt incredibly
Speaker 1: acutely by the people who need these services, who need
Speaker 1: to get abortions, who need to get reproductive healthcare, and
Speaker 1: is felt by the providers of that healthcare, and nobody
Speaker 1: else in society sees about it or talks about it,
Speaker 1: and they have you know, Okay, so the I'm I'm
Speaker 1: gonna read another quote from Living in the Crosshairs about
Speaker 1: the tactics that these groups use because they have they
Speaker 1: have so many things. These tactics include bombings, arson and
Speaker 1: threat scares, and mass blockades. Extremists have also thrown beautric
Speaker 1: acid into clinics, glued clinic locks, shut locked themselves to
Speaker 1: clinic property using items such as bicycle locks or chains,
Speaker 1: drilled holes into clinic groups so that clinics flood, invaded,
Speaker 1: invaded clinics, vandalized clinics, made threatening phone calls, try to
Speaker 1: persuade patients to go to fake clinics, which we've talked
Speaker 1: about that in our our episode on Cristis pregnancy centers,
Speaker 1: but those that is also like part of the systemic
Speaker 1: campaign of terror, is deceiving and humiliating people into not
Speaker 1: getting abortions. Uh, they put spikes on driveways. They they
Speaker 1: they'll they'll still stand one of them. This is the
Speaker 1: very common things. They'll stand on stand outside of abortion
Speaker 1: clinics talking about how they're gonna make bombs and like
Speaker 1: the comic clothes that they're mixing, and uh, yeah, they
Speaker 1: they'll they'll lay down on sidewalks in front of buildings.
Speaker 1: They will they will jump on people's cars. Uh, they
Speaker 1: will camp out in front of clinics for like multiple
Speaker 1: day stretches. The they send decoy patients like into the
Speaker 1: clinics and disrupt it. It's just so much. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: like like the brazenness with like again like that if
Speaker 1: there are things on there, like okay, and like okay,
Speaker 1: So like I don't want to like make this point
Speaker 1: too much because like, yeah, you can get away with
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, right, even if the state is
Speaker 1: hunting for you. There's a lot of stuff that you
Speaker 1: could do that you can get away with. But like
Speaker 1: the level of stuff they've been able to get away with,
Speaker 1: like the fact that they've been able to literally on
Speaker 1: the air say that you should murder a specific abortion
Speaker 1: doctor mentioned them by name, and the fact that I
Speaker 1: know people who have had the FBI show up to
Speaker 1: their doors because of jokes they made on Twitter. It
Speaker 1: is it is fucking appalling. Yeah, yeah, because I mean
Speaker 1: they're not they don't. The law doesn't exist a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot doesn't matter. It's all about who's actually challenging
Speaker 1: the systems of power. Yeah, and then the police are
Speaker 1: like again this this is one of those They literally
Speaker 1: do cross burnings, like fucking like, they literally do clan
Speaker 1: style fucking cross burning. So I I can once again
Speaker 1: go back to the old rage against the machine classics.
Speaker 1: Some of those who work forces are the same cooper
Speaker 1: and crosses. Because it is literally the same people, the
Speaker 1: cops will cooperate with them. Like. Um. There's the other
Speaker 1: thing that do a lot is they'll just like shoot
Speaker 1: bullets through the windows of clinics constantly, and they never no, no,
Speaker 1: no one, no one cares. That is very common. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And like fire bombs happened to do this day that
Speaker 1: one of the incidents they talked about in that book was, um,
Speaker 1: so they like this, this is stuff that happened at
Speaker 1: like one clinic, they set the clinic's fence on fire
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night they plug the downspouts
Speaker 1: on like the roof after like a giant snowstorm, so
Speaker 1: that like when when the snow melted, the water like
Speaker 1: poured into this whole, they drilled it flooded the entire clinic.
Speaker 1: Um they had another one where they they drilled holes
Speaker 1: in the ceiling of the clinic and ran a garden
Speaker 1: hose through it and flooded the entire building. And yeah,
Speaker 1: again like none of this stuff ever makes the news,
Speaker 1: Like like well you and you you can compare, you
Speaker 1: compare the reaction to this to like how they reacted
Speaker 1: the Animal Liberation Front, right, yea, that that caused there
Speaker 1: was like there were like that, there were there were
Speaker 1: like like law enforcement like techniques. There are law enforcement
Speaker 1: organizations that exist today specifically to stop people like like
Speaker 1: that existed a specifically because of this campaign to stop
Speaker 1: the Animal Liberation friend for freeing animals like these people.
Speaker 1: And you know, and I should say this's like also
Speaker 1: like there's this whole push to like, oh, we need
Speaker 1: to call these people terrorists, Like yeah, like Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: called these people terrorists, and like what happened nothing Like
Speaker 1: they they they got one law that was like fine,
Speaker 1: that was like that was that was about trying to
Speaker 1: keep people from protesting graphs side of clinic. But I
Speaker 1: got strked own about the scream court, because again, we
Speaker 1: live in in a size society that is constantly moving
Speaker 1: towards theocratic fascism. If you torture construction sites or sedans
Speaker 1: or people wanting to destroy sections the forest, then you're
Speaker 1: then you're a terrorist. Um if the mail pops and
Speaker 1: to and kill a whole bunch of horses, you're just
Speaker 1: You're just some some dudes, I guess. Yeah. And one
Speaker 1: of the things incredibly frustrating about the story is there
Speaker 1: will be people who are being stalked right where that
Speaker 1: they're being harassed like that, they're they're being intimidated. These
Speaker 1: people keep showing up, they'll call the FBI, and the
Speaker 1: FBI will go in, we don't care. And then the
Speaker 1: next day I'll get shot by the same person. This
Speaker 1: happens multiple times with multiple and like like that. We
Speaker 1: talked about this with the person who killed Tiller Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of the people who do use anti abortion
Speaker 1: murders like we're just irregular anti abortion prisoners and protesters,
Speaker 1: and like everything happens a lot is like people will
Speaker 1: go to jail for an abortion bombing, they'll come out
Speaker 1: and they'll do it again. And it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the one of the really scary things about
Speaker 1: this as well, I know this is this has been
Speaker 1: stated before. This isn't by any means a new a
Speaker 1: new a new thought or framing. But with all of
Speaker 1: the laws getting enacted around the whole like bounty hunter
Speaker 1: side of things, for like how there's going to be
Speaker 1: you know, citizens being amputized to track down both abortion
Speaker 1: providers people who thought out abortion. Um, it's giving all
Speaker 1: of this strain of thought, like this whole, all of
Speaker 1: the striving ideology, it's deputizing it, and it's giving it
Speaker 1: actual legal backing. So it's no longer just ignored by
Speaker 1: law enforcement. It is now being encouraged by local governments. Um.
Speaker 1: All of these all of these same motivations are now
Speaker 1: like you can get rewarded for doing this um, And
Speaker 1: oh boy, will people seize on that opportunity. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think that there's a thing we can talk about
Speaker 1: with with fascism here where it's like, okay, so like
Speaker 1: what what is fascism? And if if you're looking at
Speaker 1: like one of the one of the things that like
Speaker 1: if you if you're using like a strict classical definition
Speaker 1: of fascism is the integration of of of like parties
Speaker 1: sort of like party paramilitary forces into the state. And
Speaker 1: this is what we're looking at, is we're looking at
Speaker 1: these people who have been sucking a bombing abortion clinics
Speaker 1: for fifty years, like starting to do this stuff. And
Speaker 1: I think, like, I'm gonna read another passage about the
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff they do to individual people because like
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I mean, I keep going back
Speaker 1: to just like here's the high level terror that they're doing,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, like the individual people. Um. After being
Speaker 1: verbally targeted at our clinic for years, protesters started harassing
Speaker 1: Tammy Madison through various written communications. First, the protesters distributed
Speaker 1: flyers throughout Tammy's neighborhood, including one at Tammy's door. The
Speaker 1: flyer listed Tammy's address, the make and model of Tammy's car,
Speaker 1: and listed a telephone number reporter to be Tammy's number. Then,
Speaker 1: the protester disappeared at her home with science is playing
Speaker 1: her name that said she kills babies and hires the
Speaker 1: baby killers. When they were outside Tammy's house. They handed
Speaker 1: out flyers about her to anyone walking by. They do
Speaker 1: things like they'll they'll use like licenses for example, cause
Speaker 1: again you have to get licenses right to to to
Speaker 1: provide abortions, to be a doctor, and so I'll use
Speaker 1: a licenses to find personal information about people. These the
Speaker 1: people out there are like I mean their right wingers, right,
Speaker 1: So they're they're really racist. They like they they love
Speaker 1: screaming jew doctor at people because yeah, like they racial slurs.
Speaker 1: They constantly out people like the nail bob guy also
Speaker 1: attacked a gay bars. Yeah, there's a lot of crossover
Speaker 1: in terms of who they want to attack. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: like they do constant death thrust. There's also a thing
Speaker 1: I want to talk a bit about, which is like
Speaker 1: these malicious legal lawsuits. So one of one of the
Speaker 1: ways that people go after like clinics is that they're
Speaker 1: constantly these clinics are like constantly under legal for people
Speaker 1: are constantly suing them. People people are suing them just
Speaker 1: to find out personal information about them because the court
Speaker 1: will give court will give you information. Uh, they get
Speaker 1: They have like these fake like fake case inspectors who
Speaker 1: will come in order to infiltrate the things like they have.
Speaker 1: There's legal enormous legal pressure from the state itself, which
Speaker 1: is often trying to destroy these clinics. They're they're like
Speaker 1: they'll they'll pass laws specifically to make us with the
Speaker 1: clinics can't operate in various ways. Um like people who
Speaker 1: are just like district attorneys will will do investigations into
Speaker 1: them over and over again. They a so they go
Speaker 1: after like the kids of providers constantly. I read a
Speaker 1: story from this book that again, like no one ever
Speaker 1: talks about, like they they kidnapped this this provider's child
Speaker 1: like her like twelve year old child like at a
Speaker 1: clinic and like try to indoctrinate them and then eventually
Speaker 1: gave them back after a few hours. But like again,
Speaker 1: like they they kidnapped a child of one of the
Speaker 1: people who works at these things, and there no one
Speaker 1: even talks about it, Like it's never there's never anything.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know, like I just like the
Speaker 1: more you go into this is like the more stuff
Speaker 1: that you see that like like they target people's parents still,
Speaker 1: like show up at like the nursing homes of like
Speaker 1: the parents of like of these doctors, like they'll they'll
Speaker 1: target their neighbors. They go after the donors to clinics
Speaker 1: a lot, like they'll they'll they'll send them pictures of
Speaker 1: like bullets and knives. Um. One of the things they
Speaker 1: do often is that those burned down completely the wrong clinic.
Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of cases where they just
Speaker 1: they attacked the clinic next to it because they're not
Speaker 1: the stuff. They've gone. Yeah, I want to I want
Speaker 1: to end on this guy named John Brockenhoff, who he
Speaker 1: bombs three abortion clinics over two decades, Like he's one
Speaker 1: of the guys who they sent to prison, and then
Speaker 1: he came out and they bounded another abortion clinic. Um,
Speaker 1: And I want I want to read this quote from him.
Speaker 1: My orders to Vietnam didn't suddenly material materialized unexpectedly. I
Speaker 1: volunteered to go because I saw the South Vietnamese people
Speaker 1: were being threatened by a Communist takeover, and I figured
Speaker 1: if they were willing to fight for freedom, they deserved
Speaker 1: to be free and deserved help too. He goes on
Speaker 1: to point out, in January of seventy three, I had
Speaker 1: just returned from voluntary participation in a bombing campaign in
Speaker 1: support of the liberty of people eight thousand miles away.
Speaker 1: So I hope you will believe I will. I would
Speaker 1: not have turned my back on my own people, American babies,
Speaker 1: my own people, American babies. If you had asked for
Speaker 1: my health up in bombing an abortion and abortionary in
Speaker 1: this country, even in seventy three, and especially since it
Speaker 1: was not mere liberty but very but their very lives
Speaker 1: at stake, I would have gone with you. So this
Speaker 1: guy is literally saying he's still fighting the Vietnam War,
Speaker 1: but he's doing it to bom abortion clinics, and he
Speaker 1: went to Vietnam because he wanted to kill comunists. And
Speaker 1: this guy was at the Capitol at January six. But
Speaker 1: that that sounds about right. So yeah, like it's like
Speaker 1: one of yeah, we're we're like the moment we are
Speaker 1: at now is this sort of detritus of like every
Speaker 1: crime the US has ever committed is just rolling back,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're we're we're we're seeing all of
Speaker 1: these people who fought in Vietnam and came back home
Speaker 1: and like killed a bunch of people who did abortions
Speaker 1: and did a bunch of bombings, and now they you know,
Speaker 1: and they tried. They just tried to do a coup.
Speaker 1: They're probably going to get away with like in actually
Speaker 1: like a legal coup pretty soon because they've now seen
Speaker 1: his control of the court system, and it's like, well
Speaker 1: they've done. Really they do a really effective combination of
Speaker 1: violent direct action and legal challenges. Uh. There their actions
Speaker 1: able to be so successful. Uh one because like the
Speaker 1: tactics they choose it cause material damage and material change.
Speaker 1: But also obviously like they're not getting like investigated in
Speaker 1: the same way anyone else would, right because like they
Speaker 1: they are they are capable of doing this effective action
Speaker 1: because they don't face any any similar level of oppression
Speaker 1: to any other group that would that would be doing
Speaker 1: doing this, especially if they're on the left. Um. So,
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's it's always useful to look at
Speaker 1: the tactics of your enemy and how they and how
Speaker 1: they do certain things, but you can always have to realize,
Speaker 1: like this is the same thing with January six, if
Speaker 1: it was a whole bunch of people in black block storming,
Speaker 1: that the response from the cops would have been very
Speaker 1: different initially and continue on throughout the whole day and
Speaker 1: the subsequent investigations. Um. So yeah, always good to look
Speaker 1: into tactics, but the response from the government is always
Speaker 1: going to differ depending on who's doing the actual challenging. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think, as I said, you thinks about this one,
Speaker 1: like there are things you can learn from how the
Speaker 1: right operates. You can't carbon copy their tactics and try
Speaker 1: to do them from the left because it just won't
Speaker 1: work because the start to structural conditions for the left
Speaker 1: are just different. But the second thing is also that,
Speaker 1: like it is simultaneously true that the level of oppression
Speaker 1: against leftist is higher than it is against right wingers.
Speaker 1: And also that's true, and it's also true that you
Speaker 1: can do stuff and like people have and yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean none of the change revenge people have gotten caught yet,
Speaker 1: so like you know, we will we will see. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe by time this episode comes out. And
Speaker 1: I mean, like, well, we'll we'll see, Like in general, right,
Speaker 1: especially when movements are decentralized. Um, but yeah, I mean, wow,
Speaker 1: they shoug get they should get to get away with
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff. You can be doing like
Speaker 1: pretty public of vomiting incidents for almost a decade and
Speaker 1: not get caught. Um, if you just can bomb the
Speaker 1: Olympics and not get caught for like seven years. It's wild.
Speaker 1: And I'm also just assuming the vast majority of these
Speaker 1: guys are white, and so they're not. So it's also
Speaker 1: that and also the fact that this didn't happen like
Speaker 1: a long time ago. It's still happening, and that's crazy
Speaker 1: that we still don't hear about it, like yeah, like
Speaker 1: we we talked about we talked about on this show
Speaker 1: like a few weeks ago, like the people people lit
Speaker 1: another abortion clinic on fire, like that happens still and
Speaker 1: will continue to happen, and people continue to not care
Speaker 1: about it because it doesn't write anyone whos in power
Speaker 1: ins what the media doesn't care, and it's been happening
Speaker 1: long enough that there's this sense of like normalization around it.
Speaker 1: It's not seen as radical, it's seen as oh, obviously
Speaker 1: some people think that's justified. It's not. It's not surprising, um,
Speaker 1: and that normalization allows way more people to both feel
Speaker 1: keep well of doing something and it when it happens,
Speaker 1: there's not as big of a fuss. I do think
Speaker 1: it's also true though, like I think there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people, like I think most people don't know
Speaker 1: that this happened, Like I think, I think there's an
Speaker 1: extent to which the level of violence has been totally invisibilized.
Speaker 1: And you know, because I mean, they ever think about
Speaker 1: this again. Is the reason that they're working like this
Speaker 1: is because this this is a completely minoritarian position, right, Like,
Speaker 1: they don't actually have that many numerical supporters. It's just
Speaker 1: that they're able to sort of, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: they they have enough people to wage systemic a pain
Speaker 1: of terror, and because of that, they're able to inflict
Speaker 1: their sort of are able to inflict their their fascism
Speaker 1: months of the rest of the population. Ah, that was
Speaker 1: a good ending. Sigh. Yeah. Yeah. It could happen here
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Speaker 1: for listening.