WEBVTT - Israel Bombing Aid Workers and World Central Kitchen in Gaza 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.920 Also media. 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Hi everyone, it's James. We just wanted to let you 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.960 know that some new shit has come to light since 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.880 since we recorded this. Specifically, a former staff of was 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.600 A Your Kitchen who resigned, who was of Palestinian descent, 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.279 wrote an op ed, I guess in mund Weis, which 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.680 is a publication that covers Israel than Palestine and the 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.440 United States role there, and it's given us some more 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.240 information about what's the two kitchen that we didn't know 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:31.360 when we first recorded this, and so we are going 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.760 to address out at the end. So after the second 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.680 ad break, Charles will go Sherean and I will come 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.120 back and we're going to address some stuff that we 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.000 found in that op ed. We will also link it 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:42.560 in the description to this podcast. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.320 Yes, it's a really good article. I recommend you guys 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.400 give it a full read. But yeah, we will be 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.560 talking all about it at the end, so please listen 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.160 to the whole episode. Hello, everybody, Welcome to it could 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.360 happen here today. I am joined by my illustrious colleague James. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.440 Hi James, Hi, Serene. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.319 And my now friend Charles McBrien. Hi, Charles, welcome back 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:05.839 to the show. 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.399 Hi know friends, Sharen it's wonderful to be here and 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:10.959 to know that you're a real person, not a. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.640 Yeah, fun fact. I have met Charles in person, but 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:16.200 I have not met James in person, and I think 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:17.200 that's pretty funny. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:22.200 That's why I got colleague and Charles colfriends. I think 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:23.119 we're not taking by. 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:24.080 To it to that. 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:25.080 Don't read it too that. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:26.480 Okay, we have. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:31.080 We're talking about World Central Kitchen and the tragedy that 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.080 happened last week in which seven AID workers were killed. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.360 Both of these gentlemen have personal experience with the organization, 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:39.720 so I thought it would be good to talk about. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.399 But James take it. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.839 Away, Okay, So yeah, I think I think we should 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:46.560 maybe start off Charles, you and I have both seen 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.680 World Central Kitchen in different places. Like my longest experience 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.640 with them was starting in twenty eighteen and Tijuana, right 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.000 when we were trying to feed people who were part 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.360 of a caravan of migrant to It arrived to write 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.920 before the midterms, and what was a relatively normal thing 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:09.280 became a really big political sort of football, which resulted 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.240 in the people, remember, like people being tear gassed in 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.160 Mexico from inside the United States, people being held first 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.160 in a baseball stadium and then in an old strip club, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:24.600 which was really gross. And they're being essentially no NGO 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.960 presence at first, and then Mutual Aid presence and then 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.960 World Center Kitchen. Were one of the first people to 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.240 show up and cook for people, and like at this 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.760 point there was a really dying of need for food. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.480 Like I have this vivid memory of three of my 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:39.960 friends and I are riding in a bed of a 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:44.040 pickup truck into this refugee camp and people just mobbing 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.080 for food and water, and like people would get about 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.360 like not stamping on children once once we stopped, but 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:51.679 like I was really worried there was going to be 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.040 a crash. People were very hungry and very thirsty, and 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.720 I had just had massive respect for people showing up 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.760 and just being like, we are people who cook food. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:01.280 What we hate to do is cook food, and these 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.000 people hungryes who are going to give it to them? 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.640 And so I've always been admiring of their work since then. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.560 And I went to Childs, like what your sort of 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.440 initial experience was with them, and if you could describe 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.680 like sort of what sort of work you've seen them doing. 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:26.280 Yeah, So first experience that I had with World Central 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.639 Kitchen was actually hands off. It was when my friends 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.720 and I we created this thing four years ago called 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.559 the Farm Link Project, which is a food rescue organization. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.960 It basically finds food that's going to waste on farms 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.840 and are pays the wages of the truckers and the 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.320 drivers to transport the food to food banks that are overworked. 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.800 We sort of tagged in with World Central Kitchen in 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.120 the beginning of COVID and talked with them a little bit, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.640 but there was never any official partnership. Some of their 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.920 comms people gave us advice, some of their fundraising people 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.840 with advice. First time I ever saw them in operation 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.800 was coming into the Jimish train station week two of 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.640 the Ukraine War, and they were the organization feeding all 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.760 the refugees coming in a bunch of people in the 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.880 World Central Kitchen, and the thing I noticed was none 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.400 of them were speaking English. They were all speaking Polish 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:26.839 and Ukrainian or Russian. And I started to realize, this 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.800 is an organization that knows how to mobilize a local 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.039 population in a local response as a part of the thing. 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:39.800 And that's something I really noticed when almost a year later, 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.240 I flew from Ukraine to Turkey when a seven point 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:50.840 five Magetude earthquake went through southeastern Turkey Kardastan, and I 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.279 flew into Adnanna and then basically linked up with the 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.360 World Central Kitchen people in the in the city of Osmania. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:02.400 And one of the things I notice was how quickly 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.200 they were able to get into Syria when nobody else 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.719 was getting into Syria. And the reason is because it's 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:14.719 just chefs. It's just using chefs in restaurants in places 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.320 where they already exist. Every place in the world has 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:22.480 chefs and restaurants. And Jose Andres has this amazing quote 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.919 that I really like. He says, everyone already works for 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.800 World Central Kitchen, they just don't know it yet. And 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.359 I saw that in action. I saw all these kitchens 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.760 transformed into you know, shelters and food distribution sites, and 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.600 I got to work alongside their team. So my project, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.880 I was trying to fundraise for heaters and blankets to 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.240 heat the AFAD tents in the affected regions in Kurdistan 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.080 and in the Kurdish villages on the on the border 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.400 with Syria, because there was it was still very cold 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.120 at that time and there was not, you know, adequate 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.760 attention paid to that. Obviously, AFAD and its cronies is 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.600 part of the whole reason that that incident was as 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.800 bad as it was. But World Central Kitchen stepped up 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.320 in a big way in Turkey, and I was really 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.080 impressed with kind of their outfit. We were working out 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.760 of the same distribution center, you know. I got to 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.480 a company, Jose Andres on a couple of his deliveries, 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.120 and we went in to Hate and walked around and 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.159 saw the extent of the devastation and visited all the 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.960 World Central Kitchen feeding sites and it was just it 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.360 was all Turkish people and Gurtish people who were there 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.160 working from World Central Kitchen. They had been mobilized by 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.360 this entity. So there's this decentralized element to World Central 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.839 Kitchen that I found really impressive. It didn't feel like 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.120 the top down, bureaucratic thing I kept running into in 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.160 my humanitarian work with these big NGOs. It was much 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.000 more grassroots, much more bottom up. So it gained a 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.880 lot of respect for me in that sense. Yeah, I 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.240 think that's a really good point to make that they 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.120 do have a different model. It allows them to be 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.520 flexible it allowed them to be places where other people aren't. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.000 Like I think a lot of people, prehaps like are 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.919 not as familiar with the NGO world as you and 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.800 I might be. Like, NGOs often present themselves in places 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.960 where people need help. But it's like, you know, they 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.080 have large office buildings in white Land cruises, and they 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.320 have one way of doing things, and it's their way, 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:19.360 and sometimes that doesn't work well. I can recount countless 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.920 examples of this, right, NGOs that exist to do things 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.000 in a certain way and don't adapt to a local 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.000 situation or culture. And that's something the World Central Kitchen 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.880 have done really well in my experience, all over the world. Yeah, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.960 they graft themselves on to a local response and every 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.240 everywhere that they go, it takes on a local flavor. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.600 And I think it's that's why this happened, is because 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:47.160 they inserted themselves into a highly volatile situation and because 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.480 they are so decentralized, and because they are so on 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.880 the ground, they also expose themselves to the realities of 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.160 what Palestinians have been facing in Gaza and lost members 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.280 of their team, you know, as a result. And I 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.520 think that is part of that is there's a lot 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.280 of people who won't even go into Gaza, you know, 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.360 if they had the opportunity, like you said, these big nngos. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.239 I think last time I was on the podcast Sharen, 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.680 I talked about, you know, seeing these big UN advertisements 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.920 in the Copenhagen airport saying save Ukrainian children when I 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.120 first when I was going over there, and then as 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.040 soon as I got there, I mean, the minute you 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:26.840 go east to Leviv, You're not going to see a 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.680 UN truck anywhere. And it was it was that way 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.520 for nine months, you know, INBA it was just a 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.840 bunch of people with like brand new white Land cruise 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:40.680 or prados sipping cocktails in Leviv while subcontracting with actual 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.240 humanitarians working closer to the front line. World Central Kitchen 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.360 was not that way. They were all the way out, 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.360 all the way on the east. Everywhere I went there 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.280 was World Central Kitchen cars even deep into Donyetsk. And 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:54.240 that was really impressive. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:55.040 It just fit. 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:59.520 It was so it felt antithetical to the whole nonprofit 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:04.040 industrial complex model that I'd become familiar with, and I 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:04.840 was impressed by that. 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.560 Yeah, so perhaps we should to speak about exactly what 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.720 they were doing in Gaza, because I think people are 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.960 practical a little confused. There's been a lot of like 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.880 misinformation from all kinds of angles about what they were 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:19.760 doing in Gaza, So do you have a good handle 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:20.079 on that. 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:26.760 I mean, World Central Kitchen positioned itself. They engage in 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:32.280 slightly more activist humanitarianism than most organizations, which is why 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:36.640 I mean jose Andres went big on Ukraine. He was there, 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:38.520 he brought the whole team. I mean, they put they 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.280 dedicated so many resources to Ukraine, and for him it 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.880 was unequivocal. Ukrainians are the good guys, Russians are the 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.760 bad guys. We're helping the victims of this conflict, and 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.520 you know, we're on the side of the Angels in 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.560 this And that was the positioning, and I think it 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.680 was a bit of a wake up call when after 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.200 October seventh he did the same thing in Israel and 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.640 went and you know, gave food to the to the 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.120 to the different Kibut seam that were affected by the 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:12.240 October seventh attacks, and at first very much positioned himself 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.119 as like, we're here to help relieve the affected Israelis, 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.839 which again, for like polite liberals in the humanitarian world. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:26.160 You know, Israel Ukraine both aligned with Western interests, Western 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:32.760 values theoretically, and I think and then you know, suddenly 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.600 the war focus goes from what happened in the Kibut 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.480 sim to what's happening in Gaza. And so they went 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.760 to Egypt and they started helping the refugees, and then 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.520 they tried to get into Gaza. Then they did get 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.840 into Gaza and they set up, you know, an effective 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:52.520 system of of food aid. And I started to notice 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.360 while that was happening that the perspectives of a lot 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.720 of the people that I was working with in the 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.920 AD community were starting to s on this whole thing. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.880 People who didn't have a political interest in supporting the 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.840 Palestinians and we're just kind of supporting Israel because of 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:11.560 the default. When they actually went to Gaza, they started 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.240 to really change their tune. And you see this a 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.280 little bit with Jose Andres as well. I think Jose 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.400 Andres was, yeah, I mean this in terms of his 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.760 personal views on Israel, they seem to have very clearly evolved. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.760 You can see very soon after October seventh, he is 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:35.160 calling out the Spanish Prime Minister on calling what's happening 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.760 in Palestine and genocide. He's saying that Israel has the 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.240 right to defend itself, and then he spends a bunch 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:44.680 of time in Gaza, and now he's greeting everyone in Arabic, 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.360 and then this thing happens and he immediately points the 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.520 finger at ISRAELI says, you guys targeted my team, you 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.280 killed them deliberately, and you made sure the job was finished, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:12:00.040 and that is just so reproachable. And in doing so, 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.600 he became one of the only really big celebrity voices 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.640 to make what appeared to be something of a one 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.160 to eighty turn on that conflict. And pretty much everyone 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.040 that I've worked with in the humanitarian or journalism space 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.319 has also done the same thing in regard to Gaza. 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.600 I'd say most people thought my views on this were 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.360 too extreme after October seventh, when I began immediately criticizing Israel, 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.280 and now the ones who have actually been there pretty 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.520 much on equivocally say they're the bad actor in this region. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.040 And I think you saw that shift happen in real 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.600 time with sort of the attitude that World Central Kitchen 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.079 took to Gaza. All of that stuff is available from 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.360 public statements, And I don't want to share private sentiments 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.280 that have been shared with me by members of World 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.440 Central Kitchen staff. Those are their own and they don't 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.880 represent the organization. But I think even just watching the 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.640 yo yo of Jose Andres's perspective on this change has 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:54.440 been enlightening. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.720 Yeah, And I think, like it's easy to be critical 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.640 of someone having opinions which like have not aids well, right, Like, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.960 and sometimes that's okay. Sometimes some since we need to 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.520 do that. Sometimes people say shit which is unforgivable. But 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.400 like I think in this instance, like we can be 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.079 critical at a point, but I don't think now it's 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.360 a time for that. Like I think now it's a 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.400 time for like everyone who wants the starving and killing 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.319 of innocent people in Gaza to stop is on our 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.640 side right now, and we need to welcome that. And like, 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:30.959 there are a lot of people in this country right 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.400 who we need to do that same one eighty and 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.640 giving examples of people doing that is good, like they 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.600 and there are a lot of people who don't see 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.520 themselves when they see dead people in Gaza, and that's 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.120 a problem, right, And that's some shit that they need 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.480 to examine. And because there's a lot of bigotry there. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.559 But if they see themselves in those aid workers, or 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.679 they see themselves in Jose Andres and look, fucking when 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.280 I saw the bodies of those aid workers, right you 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.200 have a tall, skinny British guy with long hair in 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.520 a plate carrier with a badge on like that, That's 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.880 what I look like to ninety nine percent of the world, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.080 and it's hard not to feel like, oh shit, like 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.840 that could be me, and I have well, I feel 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.200 like I have a lot of empathy for people in guards, 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.160 are friends in guards that we speak to them on 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.040 the podcast Shearing and I spoke to them last week. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.600 But whatever it takes for those people to change their 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.000 opinions right now is what we need, and we can 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.240 we can dissect how we got here later, but like 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.400 every minute that this continues, more innocent people die. And 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.200 if we can stop this one minute sooner than there's 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.640 important lives that we can save. And I think it's 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.160 really important to focus on where we are, not like 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.760 how how we got here right now if that makes sense. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.000 As far as global conflicts go, I believe it's like 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.800 two hundred and twenty four aid workers have died in Gaza, 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.160 which is not a normal number in any kind of war. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.400 So that's according to the UN. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.560 Yeah, one hundred journalists, right, like every there is one 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.520 person I can think of who has worked with in 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.720 Gaza who is still alive. Everyone I know has lot 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.600 of family members And that's just my tiny slice, you know, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.480 and by no means as affected by this as most people. 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.120 But yeah, three times as many children have died since 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.560 October in Gaza as are normally killed in conflicts in 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:26.000 a year worldwide. It's fucking horrific. And yeah, we will 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.320 do well to put aside our differences and make it stop. 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:29.360 I think. 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.280 Yeah, I agree, opposition to genocide and wanting to end 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.800 it should be a very big tent. And the fact 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.720 that some people on the internet are trying to make 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.720 it a smaller one doesn't make a lot of sense 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:40.960 to me. 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it promotes infighting, which is not helpful 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.040 right now. Yeah, it is helpful to not call it 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.080 a war and continue can't get a genocide because that's 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.680 what it is. So yeah, just continuing to change all 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.800 the rhetoric around this genocide I think is important. This 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.720 is also not the first time that Israel has directly 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.120 targeted aid workers that are clearly labeled as aid workers. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.920 In two thousand and six and Lebanon, Israel struck a 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.560 red cross ambulance right in the center of the logo, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:15.920 right on top of the truck. There was or the 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.000 van was a red cross, a clear red cross, and 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.120 it struck right in the center. I think that image 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.120 is now going around again from two thousand and six again, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.520 I thought the first time that Israel has directly targeted 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.880 aid workers, and I think it's really appalling seeing leadership 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:38.040 in Israel just kind of apologize half hardly, being like 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.280 this was a mistake, and then they just move on. 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.840 It's if this was the red line for people one, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.640 I find that frustrating. But if it's finally the red 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:50.800 line for people, I just hope it continues and people 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:51.480 don't let it go. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.920 That story there was absolutely fucking heartbreaking, right of that 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.880 young girl who is trapped in her car and she 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:59.840 called the ambulance, and the ambulance came and they bombed 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.320 the ambulance. Fight they killed her, and they kill the 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.200 ambulance drivers. Like those two ambulance drivers were Palestinian. They 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.760 were working for the Palestinian recrest, and they deserve every 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.760 bit as much outrage as to what Centralkitchen people do. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.919 What they did with every bit as admirable. But like, 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.680 if this is what it takes for people to change, 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.760 then like I hope that they will also acknowledge that 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.040 everything else that happened before was an a trustee too. 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.000 Talking of like a trustees, we have an advertising break now. 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:44.480 That was good James, good job, and we're back. Charles. 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.720 You recently got some online attention for a video that 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.120 you posted that was highlighting the vast imbalance of attention 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.199 that the targeted assassination of the AID workers got in 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:01.679 comparison to the murder and genocide of Palestinians. Specifically, people 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.520 were talking about how there was also a Palestinian driver 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.840 who was murdered along with the AID workers and his 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.360 name was not getting mentioned. His name is safe, Isam Abudaha. 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.919 And just a reminder of how frustrating it is that 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.040 this had to be the red line for people. There 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.159 are over thirty three thousand people in Gaza who have 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.720 been murdered, nearly half of which are children. There are 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.000 probably thousands more who are trapped under the Rubble and 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.720 other thousands that are just unaccounted for because of the 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.479 bobbing of hospitals and the lack of records. So to 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.280 have the killing of six aid workers be a red 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.440 line for people, That's what I mean by saying it's 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.399 frustrating because it is a tragedy. But tragedy has been 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.200 taking place for the past six months and also the 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:53.360 past seventy six years. So yes, the video that Charles 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:57.119 made got some well deserved attention, and I'd love for 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:58.359 you to talk about it a little bit. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.480 Yeah, this was like a strange convergence of things for 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.120 me because I had been keeping up with the WCK 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.679 team as they went into Gaza. I'd actually even been 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.480 in conversations with some of them about potentially going there, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.400 but I hadn't. I mean, like these were just buddies 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.880 from a humanitarian trip. I mean, you know, like James 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.000 probably knows, you make friends really fast when you're connected, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.879 when you're in these sorts of scenarios, And you know, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.000 I had, I made friendships while I was in Turkey 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.520 that I've I've maintained, and but then my my Palestinian 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.520 advocacy was separate. You know, I'm over here educating and everything, 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:41.639 and then suddenly there's this convergence of like former you know, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.760 co workers on this team dying and then it being 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.880 the fault of this regime that I've spent the last 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.960 six months trying to educate people on why it's bad. 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.720 And I posted a video which was my tribute to 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.080 the fallen WCK employees, who were very close friends of 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.360 people that I got really close to on that project, 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:09.080 and it was a tribute to them and also a 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:14.800 way of pointing out how their martyrdom has has overshadowed 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:19.680 the martyrdom of so many Palestinians who will never get 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.960 the kind of press and attention that they did, and 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.520 I think it achieved that effect. The video went very, 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.880 very viral. It's exceeded a million views on TikTok, It's 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.800 around a quarter of a million on Instagram, and more 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.919 than that on the accounts that have reposted and shared it, 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.720 sometimes without the context that I am not a World 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.480 Central Kitchen employee, nor do I represent the opinions of 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.320 the organization. And one of the things that I think 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.439 made that story go viral is that I did shift 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.000 the attention to I said, this is a genocide, and 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.840 I said, as grieved as I am at the loss 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.080 of these people that I have this connection with, I 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.840 do want to point out that it is overshadowing the 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.560 horrendous loss of life of Palestinians, and I think that 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.239 resonated with a lot of people. It also resonated with 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:13.600 my former my friends at w CK, who reached out 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.640 to say, we appreciate you using your platform to talk 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.080 about this, especially considering the fact that w CK employees 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.000 do not typically are not really supposed to be making 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.439 statements online about this, so they have a little more 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.800 leeway with that concerning the fact that the head of 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.600 the organization has explicitly now condemned Israel for this strike. 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.280 But I've had some very interesting conversations with friends of 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.840 mine that either still work or connected to the organization. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.320 And that's a slightly complicated thing because World Central Kitchen 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.240 subcontracts with so many different people, so at any given point, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.320 there are people who are connected to World Central Kitchen 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.560 who are not representatives of the organization or technically employees, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.480 So you know, you can't say definitively this is what 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.080 the majority of people in WCK f about Gaza or 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.600