WEBVTT - How Do You Keep A Long-Term Relationship Spicy?  

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Bill and Juliana the podcast. Hey guys, welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the podcast. So Bill and I have been together

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<v Speaker 1>for almost twenty years. That's twenty years of making love

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<v Speaker 1>to the same person. And so today's mission is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like between the sheets, if you will. What I

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<v Speaker 1>want to tackle today is how do we keep our

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<v Speaker 1>long term relationship spicy? And I think this applies to

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<v Speaker 1>whether you are in a long term relationship or not,

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<v Speaker 1>because even if you're just let's say you just got

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<v Speaker 1>married or you're dating someone right now, like, how do

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<v Speaker 1>you keep it spicy? Right? So people often, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>feel embarrassed talking about this topic. I am not one

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<v Speaker 1>of those people. I wonder if Bill, who by the way,

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<v Speaker 1>is off today, Bill is, well, I'm not gonna he's

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<v Speaker 1>not at work, He's on vacation. So Bill is on vacation.

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<v Speaker 1>God love him. But so I am kind of taking

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<v Speaker 1>over the show today. But I wonder if Bill was here,

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<v Speaker 1>would he be embarrassed. I feel like he wouldn't because

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<v Speaker 1>he has been unhinged on this podcast since we started it,

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<v Speaker 1>so it would be fun to hear what he has

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<v Speaker 1>to say. But I'll well, I'll just improvise for the

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<v Speaker 1>both of us. So joining us today is someone who

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<v Speaker 1>knows a lot about this topic. She is like a

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<v Speaker 1>total expert in this. She's a licensed sex therapist and

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<v Speaker 1>a psychotherapist. Her name is Vanessa Marin and Vanessa and

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<v Speaker 1>her husband Xander host the number one rated sex podcast

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<v Speaker 1>called Pillow Talks. So if anyone is going to give

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<v Speaker 1>me great advice today, it's going to be Vanessa. Vanessa,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining me.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to

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<v Speaker 2>get to chat today.

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<v Speaker 1>I know so, Vanessa, me too. So you are like,

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<v Speaker 1>you've written books, you have this incredible podcast, and you

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<v Speaker 1>used to see couples right in person. But now you guys,

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<v Speaker 1>because you've gotten so busy and so in demand, but

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<v Speaker 1>people can still see you right Like, how does that work?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? We offer online guides and courses that we have

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<v Speaker 2>things like our Ultimate for Play Guides, Ultimate Sex Positions,

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<v Speaker 2>the Art of Initiation, and we built those out because

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<v Speaker 2>I realized, well, first of all, my practice filled up

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<v Speaker 2>right away, and I wanted to be able to help

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<v Speaker 2>more people. But I also realized this is a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>tough ask to get people that come in person talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the most intimate details of their lives, and we

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<v Speaker 2>realize being able to put things online where you can

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<v Speaker 2>get access to those same tools and resources but have

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<v Speaker 2>the comfort and privacy of your own home was actually

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<v Speaker 2>a much better fit.

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<v Speaker 1>So who are you finding like the need from the most?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it a couple that's been together a long time

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<v Speaker 1>that is looking to spice things up? And when a

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<v Speaker 1>couple does come to you, where do you start with them?

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<v Speaker 2>Xander and I have been together almost nineteen years, so

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<v Speaker 2>we're right behind you and Bill. And as the businesses progressed,

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<v Speaker 2>I've realized that I really love working with couples in

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<v Speaker 2>long term relationships where you have seen it all, you've

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<v Speaker 2>been so annoyed with each other at the socks right

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<v Speaker 2>next to the hamper and the dish on top of

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<v Speaker 2>the dishwasher, instead of just right into it. I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to help people answer this question of how do we

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<v Speaker 2>still want to have sex with each other even after

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<v Speaker 2>all these years and all these annoyances and just the

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<v Speaker 2>challenges of daily life. So that's really our specialty. And

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<v Speaker 2>when people first come to us, mostly what they will

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<v Speaker 2>come to us with is the thought, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have a desire for sex anymore, our desire feels

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<v Speaker 2>really mismatched. We're just not having it. People are really

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<v Speaker 2>focused on frequency, and usually they'll come to us with

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<v Speaker 2>the question how much sex should we be having? We

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<v Speaker 2>all want to know that magic number that like, if

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<v Speaker 2>we just hit that quota, everything will be okay, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>be fine. But actually, what we have found to be

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<v Speaker 2>so much more interesting of a starting place is to

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<v Speaker 2>look at the quality of the sex that you're having,

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<v Speaker 2>because it doesn't make any sense for us to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about desire if you're not having sex that's worth desiring.

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<v Speaker 2>So I call this the mushy broccoli problem. Like do

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<v Speaker 2>you ever find yourself craving a bowl of overly steamed, mushy,

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<v Speaker 2>unseasoned broccoli. Of course not. And do you think anything

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<v Speaker 2>is wrong with you for not wanting mushy broccoli? Obviously not.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes perfect sense, right, But we have to be

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<v Speaker 2>honest with ourselves. A lot of us are having some

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<v Speaker 2>mushy sex, mushy broccoli sex, and then we're beating ourselves

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<v Speaker 2>up for not wanting more of it. So we have

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<v Speaker 2>to look at the quality first before we can look

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<v Speaker 2>at the quantity.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you mean by quality is that are we

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<v Speaker 1>talking like you have to plan a whole thing out

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<v Speaker 1>and like there's candle light and some soft rock playing

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<v Speaker 1>and then you have like, uh, toys and the lighting

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<v Speaker 1>is perfect because can I be honest, I can't. I can't.

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<v Speaker 1>That's like I feel like I'm just so busy, Like

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<v Speaker 1>we're so busy. And I think, and you've probably heard

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<v Speaker 1>this so much. And now, granted we have one child

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<v Speaker 1>who's thirteen. One of my best friends has six kids.

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<v Speaker 1>The other one just had her third, Like I think

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<v Speaker 1>I am tired from parenting. I can imagine most people

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<v Speaker 1>are incredibly tired from parenting. So between that career, all

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<v Speaker 1>of it. So what do you mean by quality? What

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<v Speaker 1>are we talking about here?

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<v Speaker 2>This is such an interesting question because if you ask

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<v Speaker 2>the average person, do you want to have a great

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<v Speaker 2>sex life? Most people will say yeah, absolutely. But then

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<v Speaker 2>if you ask them, okay, what does that mean to you?

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<v Speaker 2>What does great sex mean to you? Most people will

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<v Speaker 2>just be deer in headlights. They don't even know how

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<v Speaker 2>to answer that question. So I think that's a really

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<v Speaker 2>important starting point for all of us, and I would

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<v Speaker 2>encourage everyone listening to this podcast. When you're done, take

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<v Speaker 2>a moment to think about it, like what does great

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<v Speaker 2>sex mean to me? And see if you can just

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<v Speaker 2>come up with like three words or three descriptors, three

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<v Speaker 2>specifics about what it means to you. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>like you were, you were giving up a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>examples of like putting on the soft rug and putting

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<v Speaker 2>the candles on, and for some people that might be, oh, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that is the exact environment that I want to have,

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<v Speaker 2>and other people are going to think, ooh, soft rock candles.

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<v Speaker 2>This feels so cheesy. I don't want to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>So we've got to start identifying like what feels right

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<v Speaker 2>for us. But I'm also really glad that you are

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<v Speaker 2>willing to be vulnerable and share some personal details about

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<v Speaker 2>your own life too, because I think you're illustrating something

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of us get wrong about sex. We

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<v Speaker 2>think that it has to be this big production. We've

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<v Speaker 2>got to do all the things, and it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>take all the time, and let's be real, most of

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<v Speaker 2>us are exhausted. I've actually never worked with a couple

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<v Speaker 2>who said, we just have so much free time and

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<v Speaker 2>so much energy, what do we do with all of this?

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<v Speaker 1>Right, We're all.

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<v Speaker 2>Exhausted and tired, and our days are really filled, and

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<v Speaker 2>so when we think about sex as having to be

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<v Speaker 2>this huge production, it's game over from the beginning. We're

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<v Speaker 2>too tired, we don't have the space for it. So

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<v Speaker 2>I do think it's it's valuable for us to try

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<v Speaker 2>to carve time out and like sometimes have those special

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<v Speaker 2>moments where we do go all in, Like vacation is

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<v Speaker 2>a great example. You know who doesn't love vacation sex

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<v Speaker 2>when you just you have that space and the energy

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<v Speaker 2>and you're sleeping in. But on a day to day basis,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's so much more important for us to

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<v Speaker 2>focus on what's good enough sex, Like what's something that

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<v Speaker 2>it maybe is not gonna you know, it's not gonna

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<v Speaker 2>take a ton of time, it's not gonna take a

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<v Speaker 2>ton of effort, it's not going to be the best

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<v Speaker 2>sex we've ever had, but it's still good enough that

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<v Speaker 2>we get to have that experience of feeling pleasure, of

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<v Speaker 2>feeling connected with each other, and we get to have

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<v Speaker 2>that experience that I think is actually one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most important parts of sex is right after if you notice,

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<v Speaker 2>like even those days where you were so hired or

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<v Speaker 2>it just you weren't really in the mood right after sex.

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<v Speaker 2>The vast majority of us think I'm so glad we

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<v Speaker 2>did that. I think we think of that moment and

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<v Speaker 2>what's the minimum that we could do to get to

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<v Speaker 2>that moment? We'll have much better sex lives.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so funny you say that, You're absolutely right. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like we'll go through stages where we just like, are

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<v Speaker 1>so busy, we're just tired, and we like lights out,

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<v Speaker 1>not fooling around right for a while, and then when

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<v Speaker 1>we do it, and it's usually Bill like being like, honey,

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<v Speaker 1>it's been a while. I'm like, oh okay, because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just like I was tired, tired, And then right after

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<v Speaker 1>I always go we have to do that more often

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<v Speaker 1>go back and they'll actually say, which is beyond laughable

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<v Speaker 1>if you ask Bill, because he would be laughing right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I always go, wait, why don't we do that every day?

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<v Speaker 1>And he's like, I can't. He's like, hello, I'm looking

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<v Speaker 1>at it. I'm looking at the reason we don't do

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<v Speaker 1>it every day, because you know, but you're right right after,

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<v Speaker 1>what is it? It's like that hormones release oxytot oxycytosin. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>look at me, I know, my science girl oxytocin is released.

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<v Speaker 1>I've actually known that. I don't. I remember reading an

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<v Speaker 1>article years ago and that's that feeling of like like

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<v Speaker 1>just that you can't get anywhere else right after and

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<v Speaker 1>it's that oxytocin, and so you have that feeling and

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<v Speaker 1>it's like euphoria. You're just like, oh my gosh, that

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<v Speaker 1>was so amazing, like we need to do this every day,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you go back to your life and you

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<v Speaker 1>don't do it every day most people. So I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like a huge part of this, because it takes two

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<v Speaker 1>to tango is communication. It's like what does the It's

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<v Speaker 1>not just what do you want or what constitutes great

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<v Speaker 1>sex to you, but like what great sex sex to

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<v Speaker 1>your partner because you guys have to be on the

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<v Speaker 1>same page. I mean, if anything takes two to tango,

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<v Speaker 1>it's this, right, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>So first I want everybody listening to think of a

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<v Speaker 2>few specifics for themselves, because you probably haven't ever thought

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<v Speaker 2>about that question. Then I want you to ask your partner.

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<v Speaker 2>So I love blaming podcasts as a way to open

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<v Speaker 2>up a conversation so you can tell your partner, Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I was listening to my favorite podcast today. Juliana had

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<v Speaker 2>this guest on the Sex Therapist, and she asked us

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<v Speaker 2>this question that was so fascinating. I've never thought about

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<v Speaker 2>it before, and here are my answers. I'm really curious

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<v Speaker 2>to know what your answers would be, and you can

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<v Speaker 2>give your partner a little bit of time. They may

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<v Speaker 2>not be able to answer it right on the spot,

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<v Speaker 2>but that can be a great way for the two

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<v Speaker 2>of you to start comparing notes and starting to talk

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<v Speaker 2>more openly about your sex life. Because here's the thing

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<v Speaker 2>about communication. We all know we should be doing it right.

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<v Speaker 2>And you see it, you know when you're up secretly

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<v Speaker 2>googling in incognito mode, like why aren't we having sex anymore?

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<v Speaker 2>How to start having more sex? Like it's in every article,

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<v Speaker 2>like you have to talk to your partner. We all

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<v Speaker 2>know that, but nobody ever talks to us about what

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<v Speaker 2>we're supposed to say and how we're supposed to say it,

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<v Speaker 2>and when we say it, and you know, what do

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<v Speaker 2>we do if our partner responds poorly to it? So

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<v Speaker 2>Xander and I actually wrote a literal book about this

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<v Speaker 2>because I got so frustrated and seeing that same advice

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<v Speaker 2>over and over again, and we actually struggled in our

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<v Speaker 2>own relationship, which was so challenging for me, Like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in this field, I love this topic so much, and

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<v Speaker 2>yet when we were going through challenges in our own

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<v Speaker 2>sex life, I didn't know how to talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So the book is actually everything. It's basically the opposite

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<v Speaker 2>of everything that I actually did. We learned better tools

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<v Speaker 2>and techniques through mucking through it on our own. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's called Sex Talks the five Conversations that every couple

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<v Speaker 2>should have, and it leads you through specific conversations what

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<v Speaker 2>to say, when to say it, how to say it,

0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.120
<v Speaker 2>rather than just that generic just talk about it.

0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.199
<v Speaker 1>I love that. When did you write that? When did

0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:54.640
<v Speaker 1>that come out?

0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.319
<v Speaker 2>That came out in twenty twenty three, and it was

0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 2>an instant New York Times bestseller, so I'd clearly resonated

0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.720
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of people. Yeah, but one of the

0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:04.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, one of the mistakes people make when it

0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.120
<v Speaker 2>comes to talking about sex is we don't want to

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.680
<v Speaker 2>do it because it feels scary and vulnerable. And so

0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:14.080
<v Speaker 2>most people their very first conversation about sex is when

0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.800
<v Speaker 2>something is just gotten so bad that you don't have

0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.720
<v Speaker 2>any choice not to talk about it anymore. That actually

0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.040
<v Speaker 2>was the first conversation, the first real conversation Xander and

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I had in our relationship was me telling him why

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:29.840
<v Speaker 2>do you never want to have sex with me anymore?

0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Not a great conversation, It did not go well. So

0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.719
<v Speaker 2>when we start with something negative that only reinforces our

0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.160
<v Speaker 2>feeling that we don't want to talk about it. It feels

0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.760
<v Speaker 2>scary and vulnerable and overwhelming. So instead, the book is

0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.079
<v Speaker 2>really centered around how do we start talking about sex

0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.000
<v Speaker 2>in a positive way? First, So we build this foundation,

0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.679
<v Speaker 2>we get comfortable with the topic. It even can feel

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.440
<v Speaker 2>fun to talk about it. And then once you have

0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 2>that foundation in place, talking about the trickier actually feels

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot easier.

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>And I think it's about for a lot of people

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.320
<v Speaker 1>as we talk about this, it's like reframing your mind. Right, Like,

0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:15.079
<v Speaker 1>it's not sex, especially in a relationship of a long time, right,

0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:20.760
<v Speaker 1>or you know, any committed relationship. Okay, it is important

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.320
<v Speaker 1>for a lot of reasons, right, It's not just like,

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.800
<v Speaker 1>oh I'm married, I'm in a long term relationship, I

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.679
<v Speaker 1>have to have sex frequently because it's like part of

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.439
<v Speaker 1>it's like what people do. It's also a way obviously

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 1>to connect. It's a connection right, it's an intimate connection.

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 1>And I will tell you, as someone who's been married

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty years, I think what's important to note too is

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.839
<v Speaker 1>that like both people in the relationship have to kind

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.839
<v Speaker 1>of be fulfilled, right. It can't just be about one

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 1>person being fulfilled, because I think what starts to happen is,

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.439
<v Speaker 1>and I'll tell you someone who's been married two decades

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.680
<v Speaker 1>that you know, we both get so busy Bill and

0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.839
<v Speaker 1>I and I think, like in my head, I'm like, well,

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 1>of course he knows I love him and I'm attracted

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.319
<v Speaker 1>to him, so but sometimes it's like just also that

0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 1>feeling of like the other person feeling desirable, you know,

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 1>and wanted that you want. It's not about like we

0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 1>have to have sex because we're married and that's what

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.880
<v Speaker 1>couples do, or we're dating and that's what couples. It's

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 1>also like, oh, wait, she wants to have sex with me,

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.080
<v Speaker 1>not she needs to have sex with me. Let's talk

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.320
<v Speaker 1>about that, because there's a big difference when it comes

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to that, and I think that is very important because

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 1>that's where problems start to happen and things can start

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 1>to unravel in a relationship when there's a distinct difference

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:44.800
<v Speaker 1>because there's a distinct difference between the two.

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 2>We all want to feel wanted, and especially in a

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 2>long term relationship, we want to feel like our partner

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.080
<v Speaker 2>is still choosing us, still desires us, still wants to

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.680
<v Speaker 2>be with us. It's real, really easy to fall into

0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 2>the roommate stage, to fall into taking each other for granted,

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and we are all desperately missing that feeling of being

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 2>wanted by our partner. I think a lot of us,

0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and especially us women, we have the tendency to think

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 2>of sex as just this physical act. It's just body

0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 2>parts going into body parts. It's just about the release.

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 2>And you know, we have a lot of stereotypes about

0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.920
<v Speaker 2>men that they want it wherever, whenever, they'll stick whatever

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>they can get, and we fail to recognize all of

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 2>the emotional components to sex, all of the ways that

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 2>it helps us feel more connected to each other, closer

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 2>to each other. It's the one thing that we do

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>with this one person. It's what differentiates us from being

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 2>just friends, from being household co managers or co parents. Yeah,

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 2>so's It's so much more than just this physical act.

0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>And if we were able to recognize that, I think

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>it would make a huge impact on many relationships.

0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you guys, I think that's really important. If you're listening,

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.640
<v Speaker 1>obviously this is something you've been thinking about, or maybe

0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.040
<v Speaker 1>now you're thinking about it. You're like, huh, I stumbled

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast, and yeah, this is interesting because you know,

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of going through this sort of thing, because

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.120
<v Speaker 1>what does start to happen is, you know, you've been

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.840
<v Speaker 1>together a long time, you get into a routine, and

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I think there is, at least with Bill, and I

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 1>think what starts to happen with us is I just

0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 1>start to like assume. Of course, like he knows that

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I think he's gorgeous, and of course I want to

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>fool around, but like I'm just tired. But of course

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 1>he knows he's still desirable. But he has said it.

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.440
<v Speaker 1>He's like, what are you not? Are you not attracted

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.560
<v Speaker 1>to me? And that's you don't want to you know,

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 1>we don't want to keep that going, you know what

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean? So you have to like and it's not

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.160
<v Speaker 1>just like, oh my god, I am attracted to you,

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 1>let's have sex right now. It's not about that. It's

0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>just about communication and being like, oh wait a second,

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 1>hold on, let me tell you. Why. Of course I'm

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.080
<v Speaker 1>attracted to you, but I've been so busy. I'm tired. I'm

0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.920
<v Speaker 1>going through this at an you know, for some reason.

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, maybe it's my age, I'm going whatever it is, perry, menopause, menopause,

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:12.359
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is. Talking about it together is so important,

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.640
<v Speaker 1>right because otherwise you do, you can start to push

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the other person away. And that's really that's scary that

0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 1>you must see that a lot.

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, relationships are really all about the small things. It's

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.919
<v Speaker 2>it's those little reminders to each other, those things that

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.560
<v Speaker 2>we just assume or take for granted, like he must know,

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.480
<v Speaker 2>he's got to know. But our partner needs to hear

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.320
<v Speaker 2>those things, and we need to hear those things too, right,

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 2>So it's just being willing to say those things out loud,

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.199
<v Speaker 2>often repeating them. Don't you can't you know, like we

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.639
<v Speaker 2>can't say I love you once and then we just

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.239
<v Speaker 2>assume partner knows. Right. I'm just never going to say

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 2>it to them again. We said it on our wedding day,

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.159
<v Speaker 2>We'll never say it again. Like no, we love saying

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.960
<v Speaker 2>I love you often. And I think if we also

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.920
<v Speaker 2>talk about our sex life and our attraction to each other,

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 2>our desire for each other in that same sort of way.

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.679
<v Speaker 2>It's really beneficial. So I recommend that couples follow the

0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 2>seventy two hour rule. And this is not about how

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.359
<v Speaker 2>often you have to have sex, but this is about

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 2>how often you have to talk about sex. All right,

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.760
<v Speaker 2>So every seventy two hours you have to at least

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.040
<v Speaker 2>acknowledge your sex life. So if you guys aren't having it,

0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 2>it could be literally something as simple as, hey, I

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 2>just want to acknowledge. This week has been so busy.

0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:33.919
<v Speaker 2>I know we both have been feeling a little bit

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.199
<v Speaker 2>run down, and you know, we had the kids rehearsal

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.399
<v Speaker 2>and the dance recital and all of that. There just

0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.400
<v Speaker 2>hasn't been the space for it. But I just want

0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>you to know I'm still thinking about you. I wish

0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.399
<v Speaker 2>we had had time to connect, and I'm looking forward

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.520
<v Speaker 2>and I think maybe Thursday would be a great day

0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.000
<v Speaker 2>for us, or even just I hope sometime soon we

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.239
<v Speaker 2>can get back in the saddle with each other. So

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 2>that short little sentence really makes all the difference in

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 2>the world because it helps your partner know what's actually

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.520
<v Speaker 2>going on for you. Their brain doesn't have to spin

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.680
<v Speaker 2>out thinking is she still attracted to me anymore? Does

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.679
<v Speaker 2>she still want me? Is she still into me? Like

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.920
<v Speaker 2>they get to know that you are still thinking about

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 2>it and it still makes the space for Yeah, life's

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 2>busy sometimes you're not going to be able to so

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.320
<v Speaker 2>that's okay, but you just have to acknowledge it.

0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm fifty one and so definitely I don't have a

0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.920
<v Speaker 1>drive like I used to. You know, at certain stages

0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 1>like currently that's why Bill's not here, just getting time.

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm just kidding, but but you know, you go through

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 1>stages where like your sex drive is very low, okay,

0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.160
<v Speaker 1>and I have to say, like Bill and I, it's important.

0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.639
<v Speaker 1>It's embarrassing, Like you know, it's been embarrassing for me,

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Like I you know, I don't like want to talk.

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm not like bringing it up with Bill all that.

0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't bringing it up like hey, by the way,

0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:06.879
<v Speaker 1>I have like no sex drive right now, but like

0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.239
<v Speaker 1>hopefully soon have a good day. You know, it's not you,

0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.800
<v Speaker 1>it's me. But at the same time, I remember we

0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.320
<v Speaker 1>had this conversation and Bill was like, well, are you

0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 1>just gonna like accept that or like why don't we

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 1>like work together on that? Like what can we do, like,

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 1>do you want to talk to you? Like, I'm really

0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.439
<v Speaker 1>close to my obgyn. I'm like, he's like the best,

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 1>He's like a friend. I just love him so much,

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.399
<v Speaker 1>so like I can go to him get advice and

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.480
<v Speaker 1>he and I did, and I got really good advice.

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.760
<v Speaker 1>But I think if I hadn't just told Bill the truth,

0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.120
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean, I would have just let

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.639
<v Speaker 1>it go and keep going and going. Bill would have

0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.120
<v Speaker 1>been confused. I'm just like accepting this as my new

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.560
<v Speaker 1>me and new life. So kind of can you elaborate

0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.480
<v Speaker 1>on that a little bit and what advice you give

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.040
<v Speaker 1>to women who are going through that kind of period

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:54.359
<v Speaker 1>in their life.

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.199
<v Speaker 2>My hot take is that desire is really overrated. I

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.680
<v Speaker 2>think we put pressure on ourselves to feel the desire

0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.200
<v Speaker 2>for sex in a way that we don't put pressure

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.880
<v Speaker 2>on ourselves to feel desire for anything else in our lives.

0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 2>And to be clear, I'm only talking about like safe,

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 2>healthy relationships here, sure, but like let's think about let's

0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.719
<v Speaker 2>think about like who has not had the experience of

0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.479
<v Speaker 2>you make a date with your friend. You guys are

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.160
<v Speaker 2>going to go out to dinner together, and the day

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 2>rolls around, you were sitting on the couch, you're watching

0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.800
<v Speaker 2>new Netflix show. You're in your pajamas already and thinking, oh,

0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I help my friend cancels on me. I would love

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 2>to just stay here on the couch, and I don't

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 2>want to get up and have to change, but you

0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.320
<v Speaker 2>force yourself to do it. You get up, you go out,

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 2>have a great time with your friend, and you're heading

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.399
<v Speaker 2>back to your house thinking I'm so glad I did that.

0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.560
<v Speaker 2>We don't beat ourselves up or put pressure on ourselves

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.000
<v Speaker 2>in the same way with stuff like that, Like we

0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 2>recognize that we can be kind of ambivalent about a

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.199
<v Speaker 2>lot of other things in our life, but we're not

0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.400
<v Speaker 2>focusing so much on the desire. We're thinking more about

0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>the experience afterwards, that feeling of I'm so glad I

0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.840
<v Speaker 2>did it. And I think it would really benefit us

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.399
<v Speaker 2>to think about sex in the same way. So I

0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.160
<v Speaker 2>like to rather than thinking about, like, am I super

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 2>horny right now? I'm so turned on and I have

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.400
<v Speaker 2>to have sex. Because also the thing is, like, let's

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:24.920
<v Speaker 2>think about when Xander initiates with me. It would be

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 2>really weird if every single time he initiated with me,

0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 2>I was I would say, oh my God, what a coincidence.

0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.399
<v Speaker 2>I just happened to be super horny at the exact

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.680
<v Speaker 2>same moment that you're super horny. What a great coincidence.

0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Let's go and have sex. Like we're different people, we

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 2>feel interested in it at different times. So instead I

0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 2>think of it in terms of willingness. Am I open

0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.720
<v Speaker 2>to being intimate? Am I open to getting started and

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.680
<v Speaker 2>seeing if I wind up getting turned on and wanting more?

0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.880
<v Speaker 2>And I think about that experience afterwards. Am I going

0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.720
<v Speaker 2>to enjoy the sex that we have. I'm gonna enjoy

0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.160
<v Speaker 2>that feeling of lying together afterwards and feeling so close.

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:06.480
<v Speaker 2>So when I think about it in that way, it

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>really lowers the bar, It lowers any pressure that I feel,

0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:13.679
<v Speaker 2>and it makes me so much more willing and open

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:15.040
<v Speaker 2>to connect with him.

0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting. So like explain, just like if some if

0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.040
<v Speaker 1>this happens to someone tonight. Okay, they're in bed, They're not,

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 1>They're not. They weren't really in the mood getting into bed.

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:26.959
<v Speaker 1>They thought they were going to watch episode thirteen of

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.480
<v Speaker 1>season thirteen of Love Island UK and they were like

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 1>perfectly content. That was like their night. The husband was

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 1>gonna fall, Bill's gonna fall asleep. I'm going to watch

0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 1>the new episode, you know, my episode of Love Island UK,

0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.119
<v Speaker 1>which by the way, I can't recommend it enough. And

0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:44.400
<v Speaker 1>I thought that was gonna be my night. And next

0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 1>thing I know, Bill's like, you know, you can tell

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.560
<v Speaker 1>like he's doing all his like Bill stuff, like I

0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 1>wanna okay, so what so what exactly? So what would

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 1>I do there?

0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:55.600
<v Speaker 2>What would I Okay? So first we're gonna work with

0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Bill because it's been a while, isn't exactly the sexiest initiation, right, Like,

0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 2>initiation needs to feel like an invitation. I just use

0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.760
<v Speaker 2>an example of like going out with a friend. Imagine

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.400
<v Speaker 2>if you called your friend and you're like, it's been

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.160
<v Speaker 2>a while, you should probably go out to dinner, right,

0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Like your your friend's not going to respond for well.

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.840
<v Speaker 1>To that, right, Like, yeah, we might as well exciting.

0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, we can talk about the initiation styles model

0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 2>that I developed in a minute, but we want a

0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:24.600
<v Speaker 2>more exciting invitation.

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:27.439
<v Speaker 1>And he does all jokes aside he does He'll be like,

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.679
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean is like the thing that like,

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're laying there and they suddenly start getting

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:35.800
<v Speaker 1>closer to you. Then yeah, you know, and and you

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:38.800
<v Speaker 1>get it like you have you know the signs of

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 1>your partner right.

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Xander doesn't have to say a word. I

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.800
<v Speaker 2>like the energy. Yes, tell I'm like, I know, I

0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:46.000
<v Speaker 2>know what you're trying to do right now.

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So when Bill's energy shifts and I'm you know,

0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 1>and like Lorenzo and Jasmine are like just deciding on

0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Love Island UK that like they might get back together,

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:57.639
<v Speaker 1>and I'm so into that moment and all of a sudden,

0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.960
<v Speaker 1>I can feel his energy over here and you want

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:04.679
<v Speaker 1>to you know, like make love? What like, what what

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:06.320
<v Speaker 1>do I do there? Yeah?

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:08.159
<v Speaker 2>We also work a lot with men on learning how

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.760
<v Speaker 2>to read the room a little bit better, because then

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:13.440
<v Speaker 2>often have really bad timing. We also work with them

0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:17.119
<v Speaker 2>on learning how to start for play earlier in the

0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:20.160
<v Speaker 2>day too. I actually think that trying to have sex

0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:22.240
<v Speaker 2>at the very end of the night is the worst

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:24.400
<v Speaker 2>time to have so we can get back to that too.

0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:26.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, so we need to stop that.

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay. What I would recommend to you or any other

0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:33.320
<v Speaker 2>woman in that moment is, no matter how awkwardly or

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.960
<v Speaker 2>unskillfully or even annoyingly your partner is initiating in that moment,

0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:42.919
<v Speaker 2>imagine that what he's actually saying to you is I

0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 2>want to feel close to you right now.

0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Ah, that's what's beautiful.

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:49.640
<v Speaker 2>What is happening again, it's you know, we have all

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 2>these stereotypes that men are just horned dogs. But men

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.200
<v Speaker 2>are not allowed to be emotional creatures in the same

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 2>way that we women are. They've been socialized from very

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>young not to have emotions, not to express emotions it's

0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 2>not okay, and not to be vulnerable. And men tell

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:11.840
<v Speaker 2>us the only time in my entire life that I

0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:16.280
<v Speaker 2>feel comfortable being vulnerable is during sex. The time that

0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>I feel the most open, the most connected, the most

0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 2>present and in the moment is when I'm being intimate

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>with my partner. And so if we are able to

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:31.159
<v Speaker 2>see sex for what it really is for men, I

0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:34.320
<v Speaker 2>think it just opens us up so much like the

0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:37.119
<v Speaker 2>reaction that you just had, you're like, oh, you know.

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, yeah, I love that different. Now tell me

0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>about this theory, Vanessa. And I didn't tell Vanessa this

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 1>ahead of time because I see your thoughts. Just stick

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:50.679
<v Speaker 1>with me here. So I've actually tried this on Bill ready.

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 1>So before I met Bill, I was very I had

0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:00.760
<v Speaker 1>like kind of these rules with guys and relationship and

0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:03.200
<v Speaker 1>dating and like rules okay, like I wouldn't kiss on

0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the first date. I just had these rules, okay. And

0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:10.840
<v Speaker 1>so I always you know, and I stuck to my

0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:13.760
<v Speaker 1>guns on this. So and I kind of played very

0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:17.880
<v Speaker 1>hard to get okay, And that was like my thing.

0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:20.160
<v Speaker 1>And I would give my friends advice and they had

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 1>to play hard to get, whether it was a guy

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:23.840
<v Speaker 1>texting you and you kind of like putting it on

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:25.480
<v Speaker 1>ice for a while. Like I just had all these

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:29.200
<v Speaker 1>like little things I would do, okay, And then Bill

0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and I got together, and so then sometimes you'll say

0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:35.160
<v Speaker 1>to me like, gosh, you know it's been a while, honey,

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'll go, I'm playing hard to get. It's like,

0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:43.120
<v Speaker 1>just because we're married doesn't mean I shouldn't play hard

0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 1>to get. What do you think about this? And maybe

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 1>you've never thought of this vinessa. Maybe you have because

0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:51.640
<v Speaker 1>you are an expert in this, but is there something

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 1>there with like this is so stupid. Even as I'm

0:27:57.000 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>saying this, I'm going, what the hell am I thinking?

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 1>And this is the worst idea? But is it the

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 1>worst idea? Hold on? Just I'm asking an expert even

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 1>though you're married. Should We sometimes play hard to get, which,

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:15.240
<v Speaker 1>by the way, is my sneaky way of like not

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:17.640
<v Speaker 1>having to have sex that night because I'm tired. Oh,

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:20.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm playing hard to get. But okay, I don't know.

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:22.919
<v Speaker 1>Is there anything there, Vanessa, just appease me for a second.

0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'll give you a generous interpretation of it here.

0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:32.080
<v Speaker 2>We have a flirting epidemic in relationships. So if you

0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 2>think back to our dating stages, flirting with our partner

0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:40.400
<v Speaker 2>was one of the best things. It was so fun

0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:43.800
<v Speaker 2>to have that, you know, that banter, that energy that

0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:46.560
<v Speaker 2>will we or won't we kind of vibe? Yes, And

0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:50.840
<v Speaker 2>most couples in long term relationships, their version of flirting

0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>is what do you want to watch tonight?

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Don't do it with each other.

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 1>But I'm doing, Vanessa, That's what I'm doing. Okay, go ahead.

0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:02.080
<v Speaker 2>But where this is your way of like trying to flirt,

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:04.240
<v Speaker 2>trying to keep a little bit of like the energy

0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 2>alive between Okay.

0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 1>The mystery, the mystery just because we've been married twenty years.

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 1>If I keep putting out every night, there's no more mystery.

0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:14.160
<v Speaker 1>And he fell in love with me for the allure,

0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:17.320
<v Speaker 1>the mystery that I was hard to get and so

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to bring that into the relationship. I'm trying to, like,

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:25.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm trying to like start a thing, Vanessa, let's.

0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Do it together.

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Let's write a book on being hard to get. And

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 1>by the way, when I told Bill this, he goes,

0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that is horrible advice. He goes, please do not ever

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:36.160
<v Speaker 1>say that again. I was like, what are you talking about,

0:29:36.160 --> 0:29:38.440
<v Speaker 1>Bill and playing card together? He's like, this isn't going

0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.200
<v Speaker 1>to end well. But anyways, no, he was joking.

0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I will tell you, like, in all seriousness, what I

0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 2>hear very often from women is, you know, I don't

0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 2>even want to like touch my partner or kiss him

0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:52.120
<v Speaker 2>because I don't want to give him the wrong idea.

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't want him to get excited and then he'll

0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:59.280
<v Speaker 2>me disappointed. So most couples will go the entire day

0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 2>with hard any touch, hardly any kiss. And that is

0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:07.040
<v Speaker 2>really what leads you into feeling like roommates, because touching

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:09.880
<v Speaker 2>and kissing, that's the thing that differentiates us from just

0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:14.120
<v Speaker 2>sharing space with another person, right Yeah, And I think

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.640
<v Speaker 2>that that is the exact wrong approach to take. I

0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:21.200
<v Speaker 2>think that we should be getting our partner a little

0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:23.400
<v Speaker 2>bit fired up, getting them a little bit excited.

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:25.680
<v Speaker 1>So flirting, you're going to.

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Flirting, and you know, I would rather have a relationship

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 2>where I feel that spark, that energy between the two

0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:37.120
<v Speaker 2>of us, and I don't always get that fulfilled, versus

0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 2>having a relationship where there's no contact, no touch no

0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:44.440
<v Speaker 2>kissing unless we both agree beforehand that we're going to

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:47.520
<v Speaker 2>go all the way and have sex. So I say,

0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.160
<v Speaker 2>let's bring back, like, bring back the touching, bring back

0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:52.080
<v Speaker 2>the kissing. It's okay to get each other like a

0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:55.080
<v Speaker 2>little bit fired up, but then not go through with it.

0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 2>That was one of the most fun parts of the

0:30:56.840 --> 0:31:00.080
<v Speaker 2>early stages, right, Like we're getting going, but we're not

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 2>finishing the whole thing.

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:04.719
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying my theory of playing hard to get

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 1>twenty years into marriage kind of like flipping that on,

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:13.840
<v Speaker 1>like reframing it to flirting, kind of like like flirting

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:17.040
<v Speaker 1>being cute and sexy and like having something to look

0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 1>forward to at the end of the day, like maybe

0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>being flirty earlier in the day and tonight, watch what happens, honey,

0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:24.320
<v Speaker 1>I have a little surprise for us, like that kind

0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:25.880
<v Speaker 1>of thing, right, Like you used to do when you

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>were dating. Yeah, okay, I like that. I have to

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 1>ask you this, So, like what about when, because this

0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:48.640
<v Speaker 1>can happen even when you've been married, you know, a

0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:51.800
<v Speaker 1>long time. So like when you like we'll joke around,

0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Bill will be like, oh, I remember when when we

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:56.479
<v Speaker 1>first got married or when we were dating, you were

0:31:56.520 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 1>so much more adventurous. You do this, you like this,

0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 1>you do that, and like, for instance, like lights on

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and now I'm like, like, you know, it's funny. Some

0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:10.880
<v Speaker 1>couples get more comfortable as they go on some kind

0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:14.120
<v Speaker 1>of like revert back to like I only want to

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:16.040
<v Speaker 1>do it at night with the lights out, or you know,

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.880
<v Speaker 1>what are your thoughts on that? Like what if one

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.720
<v Speaker 1>one person in the relationship likes lights on and one

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.000
<v Speaker 1>likes lights off? What do you do? Do you compromise

0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 1>with a little candle light? Like what are we doing here? Like,

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:30.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, because you have to think about these things too, right,

0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:33.840
<v Speaker 1>because you're not going to agree on every single thing together.

0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:37.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, couples have a tendency to get so much

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:41.719
<v Speaker 2>more vanilla the longer they've been together. Yeah, so what

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 2>happens is at the beginning of the relationship we're figuring

0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:46.520
<v Speaker 2>each other out, how do our bodies fit, what do

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:51.000
<v Speaker 2>we like doing together? And we're like finding our ideal routine,

0:32:51.040 --> 0:32:55.520
<v Speaker 2>which is great. But then over time the ideal routine

0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 2>really starts to narrow down to the point where it

0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:04.280
<v Speaker 2>gets super predictable. Right, most women can script out for

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:08.640
<v Speaker 2>you exactly what sex looks like. It's like, it's a

0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:12.000
<v Speaker 2>few seconds of kissing, there's a little boob groping, maybe

0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:14.120
<v Speaker 2>the hands go down between the legs, and then we're

0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:16.400
<v Speaker 2>on to intercourse and it's a couple minutes and then

0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 2>we roll up. You know, it's like, who gets excited

0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 2>for that? That is the definition of mushy broccoli sex,

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:27.080
<v Speaker 2>all right. But I think it happens because we stop

0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:31.440
<v Speaker 2>taking risks with each other. Weirdly, the longer you've been

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:35.280
<v Speaker 2>with somebody, the harder it starts. Feeling to be vulnerable

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:37.800
<v Speaker 2>in front of you. We don't want to be seen

0:33:37.880 --> 0:33:42.360
<v Speaker 2>as doing something new or taking a risk. We get

0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:45.560
<v Speaker 2>so comfortable with how we are and to the point

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:49.480
<v Speaker 2>where we are really starting to damage our connection because

0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.920
<v Speaker 2>we don't want to be vulnerable. So, you know, everybody's

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:55.160
<v Speaker 2>heard the advice to spice it up, and it sounds

0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 2>like really cheesy advice, but it actually has science behind it.

0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 2>We need to do new things with our partners. We

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 2>need to mix things up in order to keep us

0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 2>on our toes, to keep us feeling interested and excited.

0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 2>You cannot have great sex without being vulnerable. So I

0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 2>want everybody listening to this to really be honest with

0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 2>themselves and think to themselves, when was the last time

0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 2>I was truly vulnerable during sex? When was the last

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.960
<v Speaker 2>time I took a risk during sex? If you can't

0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:32.319
<v Speaker 2>remember something, if you don't have an answer that comes

0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:35.520
<v Speaker 2>to time, yeah, that's a good sign that it's time

0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 2>to mix things up. And it does not mean so okay.

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:39.760
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people will hear me say I spice

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:41.480
<v Speaker 2>things up and they think, oh my god, now we've

0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:42.920
<v Speaker 2>got to get the whips and chains out and you

0:34:43.000 --> 0:34:46.520
<v Speaker 2>got what I want to get. That's where our brains go, too, right,

0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 2>But that does not have to be the only way

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 2>to mix things up. Of course, if you want to

0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:54.000
<v Speaker 2>do that, go ahead and do that. But mixing things

0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:58.239
<v Speaker 2>up could be just bringing some stuff back that you

0:34:58.360 --> 0:35:01.160
<v Speaker 2>used to do earlier in your lifelationship that you haven't

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.320
<v Speaker 2>done in a while. Doesn't need to be a brand

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 2>new thing that you've never done before. It could be

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, oh, man, we used to spend a lot

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:10.600
<v Speaker 2>more time on oral sex, and I can't even remember

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the last time we had oral sex. Okay, it could be, Oh,

0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:15.480
<v Speaker 2>there was that position that we did that one time

0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:17.239
<v Speaker 2>that actually was really fun, but I don't know why

0:35:17.280 --> 0:35:18.319
<v Speaker 2>we never repeated that.

0:35:18.760 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:21.400
<v Speaker 2>So it's okay if it's something that you've done before.

0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:26.160
<v Speaker 2>But we do need to be taking risks and being

0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:27.160
<v Speaker 2>vulnerable with each other.

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:29.800
<v Speaker 1>It's not just so much like oh, bringing like toys

0:35:29.880 --> 0:35:32.279
<v Speaker 1>or lotions and potions and things like that, and you're

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 1>saying even just going back and being like, oh, it's

0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:36.720
<v Speaker 1>like a position we haven't done in a while or something. Okay,

0:35:36.760 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 1>I got that. I like that right there.

0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, start with stuff that you've already done, because that

0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:43.400
<v Speaker 2>feels easier. You know you've already done it, it's not

0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:47.040
<v Speaker 2>brand new, and that'll give you the confidence to keep

0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:50.240
<v Speaker 2>going and trying other things. But we actually have research

0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:53.960
<v Speaker 2>showing that women are the ones who need more novelty

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:55.960
<v Speaker 2>in relationships than men are.

0:35:57.280 --> 0:35:59.480
<v Speaker 1>But I said, before I let you go, what are

0:35:59.520 --> 0:36:03.240
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts on couples who start to sleep in separate

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 1>bedrooms for different reasons, Like it could be anything, right,

0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:11.360
<v Speaker 1>they have different sleep schedules. Oh, one watches TV, one doesn't.

0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:13.239
<v Speaker 1>They're like, Eh, he knows I love him, she knows

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:15.560
<v Speaker 1>I love her. Let's just sleep in our separate bedroom.

0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on that? And in terms of

0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:21.480
<v Speaker 1>how that applies to the conversation we're having today.

0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:25.560
<v Speaker 2>Is the sleep divorce? Sleep divorces are really on the rise?

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Is that dangerous in your eyes? In terms of like

0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:30.640
<v Speaker 1>the maintaining a healthy sex life, I.

0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:34.759
<v Speaker 2>Think there's something really intimate about having a moment at

0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:37.719
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day together. So I'm okay with

0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:40.720
<v Speaker 2>couples sleeping separately because there are a lot of valid

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:44.239
<v Speaker 2>reasons for that, like totally different schedules. Maybe someone's got

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:47.680
<v Speaker 2>horrific snoring, maybe there or babies. You know, there are

0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:51.080
<v Speaker 2>a lot of perfectly understandable reasons. But what I would

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:53.759
<v Speaker 2>say is, if you're going to sleep separately, make sure

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 2>you have some sort of ritual at the end of

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:57.839
<v Speaker 2>the day. And again, I don't think it should be sex,

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:00.440
<v Speaker 2>because I think that sex is that's the worst time

0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:01.879
<v Speaker 2>to have sex at the very end of the day,

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 2>but some sort of little ritual. It could be two minutes,

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't need to be a big deal. Or maybe you

0:37:06.880 --> 0:37:09.319
<v Speaker 2>both just crawl into bed together and you spend two

0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:12.799
<v Speaker 2>minutes cuddling or two minutes talking about how your day was,

0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:15.800
<v Speaker 2>but do something to wrap up the day together.

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:19.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, And you know what I just thought of. You

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:21.760
<v Speaker 1>know what, Bill and I sometimes sleep in separate rooms

0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:25.880
<v Speaker 1>because of that schedule and that sort of thing. You

0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 1>could even make that part of this flirting and the spiciness.

0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 1>So like I go, good night Bill. Oh no, I'm

0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:35.439
<v Speaker 1>not in the mood. Yeah, no, good night and night. Okay,

0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 1>see you tomorrow. No, I still think you're attractive, but

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:38.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm just not in the mood tonight. And then ten

0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:42.319
<v Speaker 1>minutes later I knock on the door and I go,

0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 1>did someone order chocolate or like special delivery? And I

0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:51.120
<v Speaker 1>come in and like, you kind of make it sexy,

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:51.759
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean?

0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 2>That could be very fun. I think you would like

0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 2>that a lot.

0:37:55.120 --> 0:37:58.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, I'll tell him, all right, Vanessa, thank

0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:02.000
<v Speaker 1>you so much. If people want to get your online guides,

0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:02.960
<v Speaker 1>where did they go for that?

0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:07.800
<v Speaker 2>They can go to vmtherapy dot com. It's my initials

0:38:07.920 --> 0:38:10.960
<v Speaker 2>V M T h E R A p y dot com.

0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Our most popular one is the Ultimate four Play Guide,

0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:17.640
<v Speaker 2>which has over one hundred unique techniques. We have gotten

0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the best feedback. People will tell us like I use

0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:23.520
<v Speaker 2>that on my husband and he was literally speechless for

0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:27.200
<v Speaker 2>ten minutes hourards sois are very fun and it's just

0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:30.440
<v Speaker 2>a fun place to start. It's not, you know, nothing's wrong,

0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 2>nobody's having to have any serious conversations. It's just pure fun.

0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.839
<v Speaker 2>And our ultimate sex positions are very very fun as well,

0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:39.480
<v Speaker 2>so would definitely recommend checking those out. And we'd also

0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:42.400
<v Speaker 2>love to connect with anyone from your community. On Instagram.

0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:46.200
<v Speaker 2>We're at Vanessa and xanders Anders with an x and

0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.400
<v Speaker 2>we make a lot of content there specifically to open

0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:52.200
<v Speaker 2>up conversations between partners. So if you want to get

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:55.080
<v Speaker 2>talking with your partner, want this to feel like a

0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:58.520
<v Speaker 2>more lighthearted topic in your relationship, because it should. Sex

0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:01.239
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have to feel serious and heavy and scary. It

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:04.719
<v Speaker 2>should feel playful and light and fun. You can go

0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:05.759
<v Speaker 2>check us out there too.

0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:08.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm literally coowey. Hold on, I'm not kidding. I'm doing

0:39:08.280 --> 0:39:09.879
<v Speaker 1>it right now, and let me tell you why. I'm

0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:12.240
<v Speaker 1>going to follow you right now on Instagram, and Vanessa

0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and then a ND and then XA and d are

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:15.880
<v Speaker 1>yes exactly.

0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:19.520
<v Speaker 2>We make a lot of ridiculous content too. We act

0:39:19.560 --> 0:39:22.640
<v Speaker 2>out the worst sex positions we've ever found on the internet.

0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, really, hold on, Vanessa's Okay, So here

0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:30.800
<v Speaker 1>it is Vanessa Xander. Okay, so I'm going to follow

0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 1>oh one point three million followers. You go, Okay, I'm

0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:37.800
<v Speaker 1>following you because you know why, because what if I forget,

0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:40.440
<v Speaker 1>like to do all of this and then having following

0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 1>you on Instagram? Now you're just gonna pop up and

0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:44.040
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be fun videos and it's like, you know

0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:45.520
<v Speaker 1>what I mean, And that's the name of the game,

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:48.399
<v Speaker 1>you guys, is to just like you have to make

0:39:48.440 --> 0:39:52.359
<v Speaker 1>this part of your everyday life or every other day life,

0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, like that You're just this has got to

0:39:54.239 --> 0:39:56.320
<v Speaker 1>be top of mind, especially for a lot of people

0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:58.640
<v Speaker 1>who just like I forgotten about it, and by those

0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:01.000
<v Speaker 1>people I mean me. So I'm going to be better

0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:03.279
<v Speaker 1>about it. Vanessa, You're the best. Thank you so much

0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:05.440
<v Speaker 1>for joining me. I'll fill Bill in on the conversation

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.680
<v Speaker 1>for sure, but thank you so much. This was awesome.

0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me