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Speaker 1: Welcome to Bill and Juliana the podcast. Hey guys, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. So Bill and I have been together

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Speaker 1: for almost twenty years. That's twenty years of making love

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Speaker 1: to the same person. And so today's mission is kind

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Speaker 1: of like between the sheets, if you will. What I

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Speaker 1: want to tackle today is how do we keep our

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Speaker 1: long term relationship spicy? And I think this applies to

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Speaker 1: whether you are in a long term relationship or not,

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Speaker 1: because even if you're just let's say you just got

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Speaker 1: married or you're dating someone right now, like, how do

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Speaker 1: you keep it spicy? Right? So people often, you know,

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Speaker 1: feel embarrassed talking about this topic. I am not one

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Speaker 1: of those people. I wonder if Bill, who by the way,

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Speaker 1: is off today, Bill is, well, I'm not gonna he's

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Speaker 1: not at work, He's on vacation. So Bill is on vacation.

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Speaker 1: God love him. But so I am kind of taking

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Speaker 1: over the show today. But I wonder if Bill was here,

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Speaker 1: would he be embarrassed. I feel like he wouldn't because

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Speaker 1: he has been unhinged on this podcast since we started it,

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Speaker 1: so it would be fun to hear what he has

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Speaker 1: to say. But I'll well, I'll just improvise for the

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Speaker 1: both of us. So joining us today is someone who

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Speaker 1: knows a lot about this topic. She is like a

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Speaker 1: total expert in this. She's a licensed sex therapist and

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Speaker 1: a psychotherapist. Her name is Vanessa Marin and Vanessa and

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Speaker 1: her husband Xander host the number one rated sex podcast

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Speaker 1: called Pillow Talks. So if anyone is going to give

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Speaker 1: me great advice today, it's going to be Vanessa. Vanessa,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 2: get to chat today.

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Speaker 1: I know so, Vanessa, me too. So you are like,

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Speaker 1: you've written books, you have this incredible podcast, and you

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Speaker 1: used to see couples right in person. But now you guys,

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Speaker 1: because you've gotten so busy and so in demand, but

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Speaker 1: people can still see you right Like, how does that work?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? We offer online guides and courses that we have

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Speaker 2: things like our Ultimate for Play Guides, Ultimate Sex Positions,

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Speaker 2: the Art of Initiation, and we built those out because

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Speaker 2: I realized, well, first of all, my practice filled up

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Speaker 2: right away, and I wanted to be able to help

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Speaker 2: more people. But I also realized this is a pretty

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Speaker 2: tough ask to get people that come in person talk

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Speaker 2: about the most intimate details of their lives, and we

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Speaker 2: realize being able to put things online where you can

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Speaker 2: get access to those same tools and resources but have

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Speaker 2: the comfort and privacy of your own home was actually

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Speaker 2: a much better fit.

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Speaker 1: So who are you finding like the need from the most?

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Speaker 1: Is it a couple that's been together a long time

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Speaker 1: that is looking to spice things up? And when a

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Speaker 1: couple does come to you, where do you start with them?

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Speaker 2: Xander and I have been together almost nineteen years, so

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Speaker 2: we're right behind you and Bill. And as the businesses progressed,

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Speaker 2: I've realized that I really love working with couples in

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Speaker 2: long term relationships where you have seen it all, you've

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Speaker 2: been so annoyed with each other at the socks right

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Speaker 2: next to the hamper and the dish on top of

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Speaker 2: the dishwasher, instead of just right into it. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to help people answer this question of how do we

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Speaker 2: still want to have sex with each other even after

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Speaker 2: all these years and all these annoyances and just the

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Speaker 2: challenges of daily life. So that's really our specialty. And

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Speaker 2: when people first come to us, mostly what they will

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Speaker 2: come to us with is the thought, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't have a desire for sex anymore, our desire feels

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Speaker 2: really mismatched. We're just not having it. People are really

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Speaker 2: focused on frequency, and usually they'll come to us with

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Speaker 2: the question how much sex should we be having? We

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Speaker 2: all want to know that magic number that like, if

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Speaker 2: we just hit that quota, everything will be okay, we'll

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Speaker 2: be fine. But actually, what we have found to be

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Speaker 2: so much more interesting of a starting place is to

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Speaker 2: look at the quality of the sex that you're having,

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Speaker 2: because it doesn't make any sense for us to talk

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Speaker 2: about desire if you're not having sex that's worth desiring.

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Speaker 2: So I call this the mushy broccoli problem. Like do

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Speaker 2: you ever find yourself craving a bowl of overly steamed, mushy,

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Speaker 2: unseasoned broccoli. Of course not. And do you think anything

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Speaker 2: is wrong with you for not wanting mushy broccoli? Obviously not.

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Speaker 2: It makes perfect sense, right, But we have to be

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Speaker 2: honest with ourselves. A lot of us are having some

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Speaker 2: mushy sex, mushy broccoli sex, and then we're beating ourselves

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Speaker 2: up for not wanting more of it. So we have

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Speaker 2: to look at the quality first before we can look

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Speaker 2: at the quantity.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by quality is that are we

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Speaker 1: talking like you have to plan a whole thing out

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Speaker 1: and like there's candle light and some soft rock playing

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Speaker 1: and then you have like, uh, toys and the lighting

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Speaker 1: is perfect because can I be honest, I can't. I can't.

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Speaker 1: That's like I feel like I'm just so busy, Like

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Speaker 1: we're so busy. And I think, and you've probably heard

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Speaker 1: this so much. And now, granted we have one child

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Speaker 1: who's thirteen. One of my best friends has six kids.

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Speaker 1: The other one just had her third, Like I think

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Speaker 1: I am tired from parenting. I can imagine most people

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Speaker 1: are incredibly tired from parenting. So between that career, all

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Speaker 1: of it. So what do you mean by quality? What

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Speaker 1: are we talking about here?

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Speaker 2: This is such an interesting question because if you ask

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Speaker 2: the average person, do you want to have a great

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Speaker 2: sex life? Most people will say yeah, absolutely. But then

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Speaker 2: if you ask them, okay, what does that mean to you?

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Speaker 2: What does great sex mean to you? Most people will

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Speaker 2: just be deer in headlights. They don't even know how

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Speaker 2: to answer that question. So I think that's a really

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Speaker 2: important starting point for all of us, and I would

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Speaker 2: encourage everyone listening to this podcast. When you're done, take

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Speaker 2: a moment to think about it, like what does great

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Speaker 2: sex mean to me? And see if you can just

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Speaker 2: come up with like three words or three descriptors, three

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Speaker 2: specifics about what it means to you. So, for example,

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Speaker 2: like you were, you were giving up a couple of

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Speaker 2: examples of like putting on the soft rug and putting

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Speaker 2: the candles on, and for some people that might be, oh, yes,

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Speaker 2: that is the exact environment that I want to have,

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Speaker 2: and other people are going to think, ooh, soft rock candles.

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Speaker 2: This feels so cheesy. I don't want to do that.

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Speaker 2: So we've got to start identifying like what feels right

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Speaker 2: for us. But I'm also really glad that you are

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Speaker 2: willing to be vulnerable and share some personal details about

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Speaker 2: your own life too, because I think you're illustrating something

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Speaker 2: that a lot of us get wrong about sex. We

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Speaker 2: think that it has to be this big production. We've

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Speaker 2: got to do all the things, and it's going to

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Speaker 2: take all the time, and let's be real, most of

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Speaker 2: us are exhausted. I've actually never worked with a couple

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Speaker 2: who said, we just have so much free time and

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Speaker 2: so much energy, what do we do with all of this?

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Speaker 1: Right, We're all.

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Speaker 2: Exhausted and tired, and our days are really filled, and

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Speaker 2: so when we think about sex as having to be

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Speaker 2: this huge production, it's game over from the beginning. We're

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Speaker 2: too tired, we don't have the space for it. So

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Speaker 2: I do think it's it's valuable for us to try

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Speaker 2: to carve time out and like sometimes have those special

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Speaker 2: moments where we do go all in, Like vacation is

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Speaker 2: a great example. You know who doesn't love vacation sex

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Speaker 2: when you just you have that space and the energy

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Speaker 2: and you're sleeping in. But on a day to day basis,

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Speaker 2: I think it's so much more important for us to

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Speaker 2: focus on what's good enough sex, Like what's something that

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Speaker 2: it maybe is not gonna you know, it's not gonna

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Speaker 2: take a ton of time, it's not gonna take a

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Speaker 2: ton of effort, it's not going to be the best

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Speaker 2: sex we've ever had, but it's still good enough that

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Speaker 2: we get to have that experience of feeling pleasure, of

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Speaker 2: feeling connected with each other, and we get to have

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Speaker 2: that experience that I think is actually one of the

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Speaker 2: most important parts of sex is right after if you notice,

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Speaker 2: like even those days where you were so hired or

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Speaker 2: it just you weren't really in the mood right after sex.

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Speaker 2: The vast majority of us think I'm so glad we

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Speaker 2: did that. I think we think of that moment and

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Speaker 2: what's the minimum that we could do to get to

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Speaker 2: that moment? We'll have much better sex lives.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that, You're absolutely right. It's

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Speaker 1: like we'll go through stages where we just like, are

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Speaker 1: so busy, we're just tired, and we like lights out,

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Speaker 1: not fooling around right for a while, and then when

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Speaker 1: we do it, and it's usually Bill like being like, honey,

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Speaker 1: it's been a while. I'm like, oh okay, because I'm

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Speaker 1: just like I was tired, tired, And then right after

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Speaker 1: I always go we have to do that more often

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Speaker 1: go back and they'll actually say, which is beyond laughable

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Speaker 1: if you ask Bill, because he would be laughing right now.

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Speaker 1: I always go, wait, why don't we do that every day?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, I can't. He's like, hello, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at it. I'm looking at the reason we don't do

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Speaker 1: it every day, because you know, but you're right right after,

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Speaker 1: what is it? It's like that hormones release oxytot oxycytosin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: look at me, I know, my science girl oxytocin is released.

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Speaker 1: I've actually known that. I don't. I remember reading an

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Speaker 1: article years ago and that's that feeling of like like

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Speaker 1: just that you can't get anywhere else right after and

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Speaker 1: it's that oxytocin, and so you have that feeling and

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Speaker 1: it's like euphoria. You're just like, oh my gosh, that

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Speaker 1: was so amazing, like we need to do this every day,

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Speaker 1: and then you go back to your life and you

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Speaker 1: don't do it every day most people. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like a huge part of this, because it takes two

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Speaker 1: to tango is communication. It's like what does the It's

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Speaker 1: not just what do you want or what constitutes great

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Speaker 1: sex to you, but like what great sex sex to

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Speaker 1: your partner because you guys have to be on the

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Speaker 1: same page. I mean, if anything takes two to tango,

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Speaker 1: it's this, right, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: So first I want everybody listening to think of a

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Speaker 2: few specifics for themselves, because you probably haven't ever thought

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Speaker 2: about that question. Then I want you to ask your partner.

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Speaker 2: So I love blaming podcasts as a way to open

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Speaker 2: up a conversation so you can tell your partner, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I was listening to my favorite podcast today. Juliana had

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Speaker 2: this guest on the Sex Therapist, and she asked us

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Speaker 2: this question that was so fascinating. I've never thought about

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Speaker 2: it before, and here are my answers. I'm really curious

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Speaker 2: to know what your answers would be, and you can

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Speaker 2: give your partner a little bit of time. They may

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Speaker 2: not be able to answer it right on the spot,

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Speaker 2: but that can be a great way for the two

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Speaker 2: of you to start comparing notes and starting to talk

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Speaker 2: more openly about your sex life. Because here's the thing

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Speaker 2: about communication. We all know we should be doing it right.

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Speaker 2: And you see it, you know when you're up secretly

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Speaker 2: googling in incognito mode, like why aren't we having sex anymore?

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Speaker 2: How to start having more sex? Like it's in every article,

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Speaker 2: like you have to talk to your partner. We all

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Speaker 2: know that, but nobody ever talks to us about what

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Speaker 2: we're supposed to say and how we're supposed to say it,

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Speaker 2: and when we say it, and you know, what do

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Speaker 2: we do if our partner responds poorly to it? So

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Speaker 2: Xander and I actually wrote a literal book about this

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Speaker 2: because I got so frustrated and seeing that same advice

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Speaker 2: over and over again, and we actually struggled in our

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Speaker 2: own relationship, which was so challenging for me, Like I'm

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Speaker 2: in this field, I love this topic so much, and

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Speaker 2: yet when we were going through challenges in our own

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Speaker 2: sex life, I didn't know how to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: So the book is actually everything. It's basically the opposite

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Speaker 2: of everything that I actually did. We learned better tools

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Speaker 2: and techniques through mucking through it on our own. But

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Speaker 2: it's called Sex Talks the five Conversations that every couple

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Speaker 2: should have, and it leads you through specific conversations what

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Speaker 2: to say, when to say it, how to say it,

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Speaker 2: rather than just that generic just talk about it.

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Speaker 1: I love that. When did you write that? When did

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Speaker 1: that come out?

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Speaker 2: That came out in twenty twenty three, and it was

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Speaker 2: an instant New York Times bestseller, so I'd clearly resonated

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Speaker 2: with a lot of people. Yeah, but one of the

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the mistakes people make when it

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Speaker 2: comes to talking about sex is we don't want to

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Speaker 2: do it because it feels scary and vulnerable. And so

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Speaker 2: most people their very first conversation about sex is when

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Speaker 2: something is just gotten so bad that you don't have

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Speaker 2: any choice not to talk about it anymore. That actually

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Speaker 2: was the first conversation, the first real conversation Xander and

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Speaker 2: I had in our relationship was me telling him why

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Speaker 2: do you never want to have sex with me anymore?

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Speaker 2: Not a great conversation, It did not go well. So

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Speaker 2: when we start with something negative that only reinforces our

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Speaker 2: feeling that we don't want to talk about it. It feels

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Speaker 2: scary and vulnerable and overwhelming. So instead, the book is

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Speaker 2: really centered around how do we start talking about sex

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Speaker 2: in a positive way? First, So we build this foundation,

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Speaker 2: we get comfortable with the topic. It even can feel

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Speaker 2: fun to talk about it. And then once you have

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Speaker 2: that foundation in place, talking about the trickier actually feels

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Speaker 2: a lot easier.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's about for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: as we talk about this, it's like reframing your mind. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's not sex, especially in a relationship of a long time, right,

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Speaker 1: or you know, any committed relationship. Okay, it is important

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Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, right, It's not just like,

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Speaker 1: oh I'm married, I'm in a long term relationship, I

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Speaker 1: have to have sex frequently because it's like part of

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Speaker 1: it's like what people do. It's also a way obviously

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Speaker 1: to connect. It's a connection right, it's an intimate connection.

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Speaker 1: And I will tell you, as someone who's been married

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Speaker 1: twenty years, I think what's important to note too is

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Speaker 1: that like both people in the relationship have to kind

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Speaker 1: of be fulfilled, right. It can't just be about one

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Speaker 1: person being fulfilled, because I think what starts to happen is,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you someone who's been married two decades

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Speaker 1: that you know, we both get so busy Bill and

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Speaker 1: I and I think, like in my head, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: of course he knows I love him and I'm attracted

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Speaker 1: to him, so but sometimes it's like just also that

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Speaker 1: feeling of like the other person feeling desirable, you know,

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Speaker 1: and wanted that you want. It's not about like we

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Speaker 1: have to have sex because we're married and that's what

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Speaker 1: couples do, or we're dating and that's what couples. It's

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Speaker 1: also like, oh, wait, she wants to have sex with me,

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Speaker 1: not she needs to have sex with me. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about that, because there's a big difference when it comes

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Speaker 1: to that, and I think that is very important because

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Speaker 1: that's where problems start to happen and things can start

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Speaker 1: to unravel in a relationship when there's a distinct difference

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Speaker 1: because there's a distinct difference between the two.

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Speaker 2: We all want to feel wanted, and especially in a

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Speaker 2: long term relationship, we want to feel like our partner

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Speaker 2: is still choosing us, still desires us, still wants to

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Speaker 2: be with us. It's real, really easy to fall into

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Speaker 2: the roommate stage, to fall into taking each other for granted,

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Speaker 2: and we are all desperately missing that feeling of being

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Speaker 2: wanted by our partner. I think a lot of us,

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Speaker 2: and especially us women, we have the tendency to think

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Speaker 2: of sex as just this physical act. It's just body

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Speaker 2: parts going into body parts. It's just about the release.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we have a lot of stereotypes about

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Speaker 2: men that they want it wherever, whenever, they'll stick whatever

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Speaker 2: they can get, and we fail to recognize all of

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Speaker 2: the emotional components to sex, all of the ways that

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Speaker 2: it helps us feel more connected to each other, closer

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Speaker 2: to each other. It's the one thing that we do

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Speaker 2: with this one person. It's what differentiates us from being

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Speaker 2: just friends, from being household co managers or co parents. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so's It's so much more than just this physical act.

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Speaker 2: And if we were able to recognize that, I think

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Speaker 2: it would make a huge impact on many relationships.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys, I think that's really important. If you're listening,

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Speaker 1: obviously this is something you've been thinking about, or maybe

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Speaker 1: now you're thinking about it. You're like, huh, I stumbled

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, and yeah, this is interesting because you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of going through this sort of thing, because

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Speaker 1: what does start to happen is, you know, you've been

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Speaker 1: together a long time, you get into a routine, and

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Speaker 1: I think there is, at least with Bill, and I

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Speaker 1: think what starts to happen with us is I just

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Speaker 1: start to like assume. Of course, like he knows that

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Speaker 1: I think he's gorgeous, and of course I want to

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Speaker 1: fool around, but like I'm just tired. But of course

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Speaker 1: he knows he's still desirable. But he has said it.

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Speaker 1: He's like, what are you not? Are you not attracted

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Speaker 1: to me? And that's you don't want to you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to keep that going, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? So you have to like and it's not

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Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, I am attracted to you,

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Speaker 1: let's have sex right now. It's not about that. It's

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Speaker 1: just about communication and being like, oh wait a second,

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Speaker 1: hold on, let me tell you. Why. Of course I'm

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Speaker 1: attracted to you, but I've been so busy. I'm tired. I'm

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Speaker 1: going through this at an you know, for some reason.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's my age, I'm going whatever it is, perry, menopause, menopause,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. Talking about it together is so important,

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Speaker 1: right because otherwise you do, you can start to push

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Speaker 1: the other person away. And that's really that's scary that

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Speaker 1: you must see that a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, relationships are really all about the small things. It's

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Speaker 2: it's those little reminders to each other, those things that

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Speaker 2: we just assume or take for granted, like he must know,

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Speaker 2: he's got to know. But our partner needs to hear

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Speaker 2: those things, and we need to hear those things too, right,

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Speaker 2: So it's just being willing to say those things out loud,

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Speaker 2: often repeating them. Don't you can't you know, like we

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Speaker 2: can't say I love you once and then we just

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Speaker 2: assume partner knows. Right. I'm just never going to say

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Speaker 2: it to them again. We said it on our wedding day,

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Speaker 2: We'll never say it again. Like no, we love saying

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Speaker 2: I love you often. And I think if we also

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Speaker 2: talk about our sex life and our attraction to each other,

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Speaker 2: our desire for each other in that same sort of way.

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Speaker 2: It's really beneficial. So I recommend that couples follow the

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Speaker 2: seventy two hour rule. And this is not about how

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Speaker 2: often you have to have sex, but this is about

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Speaker 2: how often you have to talk about sex. All right,

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Speaker 2: So every seventy two hours you have to at least

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Speaker 2: acknowledge your sex life. So if you guys aren't having it,

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Speaker 2: it could be literally something as simple as, hey, I

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Speaker 2: just want to acknowledge. This week has been so busy.

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Speaker 2: I know we both have been feeling a little bit

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Speaker 2: run down, and you know, we had the kids rehearsal

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Speaker 2: and the dance recital and all of that. There just

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Speaker 2: hasn't been the space for it. But I just want

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Speaker 2: you to know I'm still thinking about you. I wish

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Speaker 2: we had had time to connect, and I'm looking forward

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Speaker 2: and I think maybe Thursday would be a great day

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Speaker 2: for us, or even just I hope sometime soon we

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Speaker 2: can get back in the saddle with each other. So

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Speaker 2: that short little sentence really makes all the difference in

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Speaker 2: the world because it helps your partner know what's actually

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Speaker 2: going on for you. Their brain doesn't have to spin

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Speaker 2: out thinking is she still attracted to me anymore? Does

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Speaker 2: she still want me? Is she still into me? Like

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Speaker 2: they get to know that you are still thinking about

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Speaker 2: it and it still makes the space for Yeah, life's

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Speaker 2: busy sometimes you're not going to be able to so

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Speaker 2: that's okay, but you just have to acknowledge it.

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Speaker 1: I'm fifty one and so definitely I don't have a

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Speaker 1: drive like I used to. You know, at certain stages

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Speaker 1: like currently that's why Bill's not here, just getting time.

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Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, but but you know, you go through

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Speaker 1: stages where like your sex drive is very low, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say, like Bill and I, it's important.

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Speaker 1: It's embarrassing, Like you know, it's been embarrassing for me,

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Speaker 1: Like I you know, I don't like want to talk.

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Speaker 1: I'm not like bringing it up with Bill all that.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't bringing it up like hey, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I have like no sex drive right now, but like

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Speaker 1: hopefully soon have a good day. You know, it's not you,

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Speaker 1: it's me. But at the same time, I remember we

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Speaker 1: had this conversation and Bill was like, well, are you

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Speaker 1: just gonna like accept that or like why don't we

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Speaker 1: like work together on that? Like what can we do, like,

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Speaker 1: do you want to talk to you? Like, I'm really

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Speaker 1: close to my obgyn. I'm like, he's like the best,

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Speaker 1: He's like a friend. I just love him so much,

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Speaker 1: so like I can go to him get advice and

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Speaker 1: he and I did, and I got really good advice.

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Speaker 1: But I think if I hadn't just told Bill the truth,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I would have just let

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Speaker 1: it go and keep going and going. Bill would have

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Speaker 1: been confused. I'm just like accepting this as my new

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Speaker 1: me and new life. So kind of can you elaborate

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Speaker 1: on that a little bit and what advice you give

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Speaker 1: to women who are going through that kind of period

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Speaker 1: in their life.

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Speaker 2: My hot take is that desire is really overrated. I

400
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Speaker 2: think we put pressure on ourselves to feel the desire

401
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Speaker 2: for sex in a way that we don't put pressure

402
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Speaker 2: on ourselves to feel desire for anything else in our lives.

403
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Speaker 2: And to be clear, I'm only talking about like safe,

404
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Speaker 2: healthy relationships here, sure, but like let's think about let's

405
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Speaker 2: think about like who has not had the experience of

406
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,479
Speaker 2: you make a date with your friend. You guys are

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Speaker 2: going to go out to dinner together, and the day

408
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Speaker 2: rolls around, you were sitting on the couch, you're watching

409
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Speaker 2: new Netflix show. You're in your pajamas already and thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: I help my friend cancels on me. I would love

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Speaker 2: to just stay here on the couch, and I don't

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Speaker 2: want to get up and have to change, but you

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Speaker 2: force yourself to do it. You get up, you go out,

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Speaker 2: have a great time with your friend, and you're heading

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Speaker 2: back to your house thinking I'm so glad I did that.

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Speaker 2: We don't beat ourselves up or put pressure on ourselves

417
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Speaker 2: in the same way with stuff like that, Like we

418
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Speaker 2: recognize that we can be kind of ambivalent about a

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Speaker 2: lot of other things in our life, but we're not

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Speaker 2: focusing so much on the desire. We're thinking more about

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Speaker 2: the experience afterwards, that feeling of I'm so glad I

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Speaker 2: did it. And I think it would really benefit us

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Speaker 2: to think about sex in the same way. So I

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Speaker 2: like to rather than thinking about, like, am I super

425
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Speaker 2: horny right now? I'm so turned on and I have

426
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Speaker 2: to have sex. Because also the thing is, like, let's

427
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Speaker 2: think about when Xander initiates with me. It would be

428
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Speaker 2: really weird if every single time he initiated with me,

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Speaker 2: I was I would say, oh my God, what a coincidence.

430
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: I just happened to be super horny at the exact

431
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: same moment that you're super horny. What a great coincidence.

432
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: Let's go and have sex. Like we're different people, we

433
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 2: feel interested in it at different times. So instead I

434
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: think of it in terms of willingness. Am I open

435
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: to being intimate? Am I open to getting started and

436
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: seeing if I wind up getting turned on and wanting more?

437
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 2: And I think about that experience afterwards. Am I going

438
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: to enjoy the sex that we have. I'm gonna enjoy

439
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: that feeling of lying together afterwards and feeling so close.

440
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: So when I think about it in that way, it

441
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: really lowers the bar, It lowers any pressure that I feel,

442
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 2: and it makes me so much more willing and open

443
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: to connect with him.

444
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So like explain, just like if some if

445
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: this happens to someone tonight. Okay, they're in bed, They're not,

446
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: They're not. They weren't really in the mood getting into bed.

447
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,959
Speaker 1: They thought they were going to watch episode thirteen of

448
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: season thirteen of Love Island UK and they were like

449
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: perfectly content. That was like their night. The husband was

450
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: gonna fall, Bill's gonna fall asleep. I'm going to watch

451
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: the new episode, you know, my episode of Love Island UK,

452
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: which by the way, I can't recommend it enough. And

453
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: I thought that was gonna be my night. And next

454
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: thing I know, Bill's like, you know, you can tell

455
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: like he's doing all his like Bill stuff, like I

456
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: wanna okay, so what so what exactly? So what would

457
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: I do there?

458
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: What would I Okay? So first we're gonna work with

459
00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: Bill because it's been a while, isn't exactly the sexiest initiation, right, Like,

460
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: initiation needs to feel like an invitation. I just use

461
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: an example of like going out with a friend. Imagine

462
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 2: if you called your friend and you're like, it's been

463
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 2: a while, you should probably go out to dinner, right,

464
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: Like your your friend's not going to respond for well.

465
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: To that, right, Like, yeah, we might as well exciting.

466
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we can talk about the initiation styles model

467
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: that I developed in a minute, but we want a

468
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: more exciting invitation.

469
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: And he does all jokes aside he does He'll be like,

470
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: you know what I mean is like the thing that like,

471
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, you're laying there and they suddenly start getting

472
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: closer to you. Then yeah, you know, and and you

473
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: get it like you have you know the signs of

474
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: your partner right.

475
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Xander doesn't have to say a word. I

476
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: like the energy. Yes, tell I'm like, I know, I

477
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: know what you're trying to do right now.

478
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So when Bill's energy shifts and I'm you know,

479
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: and like Lorenzo and Jasmine are like just deciding on

480
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: Love Island UK that like they might get back together,

481
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: and I'm so into that moment and all of a sudden,

482
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: I can feel his energy over here and you want

483
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: to you know, like make love? What like, what what

484
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: do I do there? Yeah?

485
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: We also work a lot with men on learning how

486
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: to read the room a little bit better, because then

487
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: often have really bad timing. We also work with them

488
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: on learning how to start for play earlier in the

489
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 2: day too. I actually think that trying to have sex

490
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: at the very end of the night is the worst

491
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 2: time to have so we can get back to that too.

492
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: All right, so we need to stop that.

493
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: Okay. What I would recommend to you or any other

494
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: woman in that moment is, no matter how awkwardly or

495
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: unskillfully or even annoyingly your partner is initiating in that moment,

496
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: imagine that what he's actually saying to you is I

497
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: want to feel close to you right now.

498
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: Ah, that's what's beautiful.

499
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: What is happening again, it's you know, we have all

500
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: these stereotypes that men are just horned dogs. But men

501
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: are not allowed to be emotional creatures in the same

502
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: way that we women are. They've been socialized from very

503
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: young not to have emotions, not to express emotions it's

504
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: not okay, and not to be vulnerable. And men tell

505
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: us the only time in my entire life that I

506
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: feel comfortable being vulnerable is during sex. The time that

507
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: I feel the most open, the most connected, the most

508
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: present and in the moment is when I'm being intimate

509
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: with my partner. And so if we are able to

510
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: see sex for what it really is for men, I

511
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: think it just opens us up so much like the

512
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: reaction that you just had, you're like, oh, you know.

513
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, yeah, I love that different. Now tell me

514
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: about this theory, Vanessa. And I didn't tell Vanessa this

515
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: ahead of time because I see your thoughts. Just stick

516
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: with me here. So I've actually tried this on Bill ready.

517
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: So before I met Bill, I was very I had

518
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: like kind of these rules with guys and relationship and

519
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: dating and like rules okay, like I wouldn't kiss on

520
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: the first date. I just had these rules, okay. And

521
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: so I always you know, and I stuck to my

522
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: guns on this. So and I kind of played very

523
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 1: hard to get okay, And that was like my thing.

524
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: And I would give my friends advice and they had

525
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: to play hard to get, whether it was a guy

526
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: texting you and you kind of like putting it on

527
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: ice for a while. Like I just had all these

528
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: like little things I would do, okay, And then Bill

529
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: and I got together, and so then sometimes you'll say

530
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: to me like, gosh, you know it's been a while, honey,

531
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: and I'll go, I'm playing hard to get. It's like,

532
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: just because we're married doesn't mean I shouldn't play hard

533
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: to get. What do you think about this? And maybe

534
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: you've never thought of this vinessa. Maybe you have because

535
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: you are an expert in this, but is there something

536
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: there with like this is so stupid. Even as I'm

537
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: saying this, I'm going, what the hell am I thinking?

538
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: And this is the worst idea? But is it the

539
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: worst idea? Hold on? Just I'm asking an expert even

540
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: though you're married. Should We sometimes play hard to get, which,

541
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: by the way, is my sneaky way of like not

542
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: having to have sex that night because I'm tired. Oh,

543
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: I'm playing hard to get. But okay, I don't know.

544
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: Is there anything there, Vanessa, just appease me for a second.

545
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll give you a generous interpretation of it here.

546
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: We have a flirting epidemic in relationships. So if you

547
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: think back to our dating stages, flirting with our partner

548
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: was one of the best things. It was so fun

549
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: to have that, you know, that banter, that energy that

550
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: will we or won't we kind of vibe? Yes, And

551
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: most couples in long term relationships, their version of flirting

552
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: is what do you want to watch tonight?

553
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: Right?

554
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: Don't do it with each other.

555
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: But I'm doing, Vanessa, That's what I'm doing. Okay, go ahead.

556
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: But where this is your way of like trying to flirt,

557
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: trying to keep a little bit of like the energy

558
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: alive between Okay.

559
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: The mystery, the mystery just because we've been married twenty years.

560
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: If I keep putting out every night, there's no more mystery.

561
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: And he fell in love with me for the allure,

562
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: the mystery that I was hard to get and so

563
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm trying to bring that into the relationship. I'm trying to, like,

564
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to like start a thing, Vanessa, let's.

565
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: Do it together.

566
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: Let's write a book on being hard to get. And

567
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: by the way, when I told Bill this, he goes,

568
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: that is horrible advice. He goes, please do not ever

569
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: say that again. I was like, what are you talking about,

570
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: Bill and playing card together? He's like, this isn't going

571
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: to end well. But anyways, no, he was joking.

572
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: I will tell you, like, in all seriousness, what I

573
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: hear very often from women is, you know, I don't

574
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: even want to like touch my partner or kiss him

575
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: because I don't want to give him the wrong idea.

576
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: I don't want him to get excited and then he'll

577
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: me disappointed. So most couples will go the entire day

578
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: with hard any touch, hardly any kiss. And that is

579
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: really what leads you into feeling like roommates, because touching

580
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: and kissing, that's the thing that differentiates us from just

581
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: sharing space with another person, right Yeah, And I think

582
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: that that is the exact wrong approach to take. I

583
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: think that we should be getting our partner a little

584
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: bit fired up, getting them a little bit excited.

585
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: So flirting, you're going to.

586
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: Flirting, and you know, I would rather have a relationship

587
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: where I feel that spark, that energy between the two

588
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: of us, and I don't always get that fulfilled, versus

589
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: having a relationship where there's no contact, no touch no

590
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: kissing unless we both agree beforehand that we're going to

591
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: go all the way and have sex. So I say,

592
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: let's bring back, like, bring back the touching, bring back

593
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: the kissing. It's okay to get each other like a

594
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: little bit fired up, but then not go through with it.

595
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: That was one of the most fun parts of the

596
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 2: early stages, right, Like we're getting going, but we're not

597
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: finishing the whole thing.

598
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 1: So you're saying my theory of playing hard to get

599
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: twenty years into marriage kind of like flipping that on,

600
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: like reframing it to flirting, kind of like like flirting

601
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: being cute and sexy and like having something to look

602
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: forward to at the end of the day, like maybe

603
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: being flirty earlier in the day and tonight, watch what happens, honey,

604
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: I have a little surprise for us, like that kind

605
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: of thing, right, Like you used to do when you

606
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: were dating. Yeah, okay, I like that. I have to

607
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: ask you this, So, like what about when, because this

608
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: can happen even when you've been married, you know, a

609
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: long time. So like when you like we'll joke around,

610
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: Bill will be like, oh, I remember when when we

611
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: first got married or when we were dating, you were

612
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: so much more adventurous. You do this, you like this,

613
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: you do that, and like, for instance, like lights on

614
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, like, you know, it's funny. Some

615
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: couples get more comfortable as they go on some kind

616
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: of like revert back to like I only want to

617
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: do it at night with the lights out, or you know,

618
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on that? Like what if one

619
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: one person in the relationship likes lights on and one

620
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: likes lights off? What do you do? Do you compromise

621
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: with a little candle light? Like what are we doing here? Like,

622
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, because you have to think about these things too, right,

623
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: because you're not going to agree on every single thing together.

624
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: You know, couples have a tendency to get so much

625
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 2: more vanilla the longer they've been together. Yeah, so what

626
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: happens is at the beginning of the relationship we're figuring

627
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: each other out, how do our bodies fit, what do

628
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: we like doing together? And we're like finding our ideal routine,

629
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: which is great. But then over time the ideal routine

630
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: really starts to narrow down to the point where it

631
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: gets super predictable. Right, most women can script out for

632
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: you exactly what sex looks like. It's like, it's a

633
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: few seconds of kissing, there's a little boob groping, maybe

634
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: the hands go down between the legs, and then we're

635
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: on to intercourse and it's a couple minutes and then

636
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: we roll up. You know, it's like, who gets excited

637
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: for that? That is the definition of mushy broccoli sex,

638
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: all right. But I think it happens because we stop

639
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: taking risks with each other. Weirdly, the longer you've been

640
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: with somebody, the harder it starts. Feeling to be vulnerable

641
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: in front of you. We don't want to be seen

642
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: as doing something new or taking a risk. We get

643
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: so comfortable with how we are and to the point

644
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: where we are really starting to damage our connection because

645
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: we don't want to be vulnerable. So, you know, everybody's

646
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: heard the advice to spice it up, and it sounds

647
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: like really cheesy advice, but it actually has science behind it.

648
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: We need to do new things with our partners. We

649
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: need to mix things up in order to keep us

650
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: on our toes, to keep us feeling interested and excited.

651
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: You cannot have great sex without being vulnerable. So I

652
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: want everybody listening to this to really be honest with

653
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: themselves and think to themselves, when was the last time

654
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: I was truly vulnerable during sex? When was the last

655
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: time I took a risk during sex? If you can't

656
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: remember something, if you don't have an answer that comes

657
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: to time, yeah, that's a good sign that it's time

658
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: to mix things up. And it does not mean so okay.

659
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 2: A lot of people will hear me say I spice

660
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: things up and they think, oh my god, now we've

661
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: got to get the whips and chains out and you

662
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: got what I want to get. That's where our brains go, too, right,

663
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 2: But that does not have to be the only way

664
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: to mix things up. Of course, if you want to

665
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: do that, go ahead and do that. But mixing things

666
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: up could be just bringing some stuff back that you

667
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: used to do earlier in your lifelationship that you haven't

668
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 2: done in a while. Doesn't need to be a brand

669
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: new thing that you've never done before. It could be

670
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: you know, oh, man, we used to spend a lot

671
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: more time on oral sex, and I can't even remember

672
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: the last time we had oral sex. Okay, it could be, Oh,

673
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: there was that position that we did that one time

674
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: that actually was really fun, but I don't know why

675
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: we never repeated that.

676
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: Okay.

677
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: So it's okay if it's something that you've done before.

678
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: But we do need to be taking risks and being

679
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: vulnerable with each other.

680
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 1: It's not just so much like oh, bringing like toys

681
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: or lotions and potions and things like that, and you're

682
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: saying even just going back and being like, oh, it's

683
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 1: like a position we haven't done in a while or something. Okay,

684
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: I got that. I like that right there.

685
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, start with stuff that you've already done, because that

686
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: feels easier. You know you've already done it, it's not

687
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: brand new, and that'll give you the confidence to keep

688
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 2: going and trying other things. But we actually have research

689
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: showing that women are the ones who need more novelty

690
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: in relationships than men are.

691
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: But I said, before I let you go, what are

692
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: your thoughts on couples who start to sleep in separate

693
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: bedrooms for different reasons, Like it could be anything, right,

694
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: they have different sleep schedules. Oh, one watches TV, one doesn't.

695
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: They're like, Eh, he knows I love him, she knows

696
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: I love her. Let's just sleep in our separate bedroom.

697
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that? And in terms of

698
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: how that applies to the conversation we're having today.

699
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: Is the sleep divorce? Sleep divorces are really on the rise?

700
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: Is that dangerous in your eyes? In terms of like

701
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: the maintaining a healthy sex life, I.

702
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: Think there's something really intimate about having a moment at

703
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: the end of the day together. So I'm okay with

704
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 2: couples sleeping separately because there are a lot of valid

705
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: reasons for that, like totally different schedules. Maybe someone's got

706
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: horrific snoring, maybe there or babies. You know, there are

707
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: a lot of perfectly understandable reasons. But what I would

708
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: say is, if you're going to sleep separately, make sure

709
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: you have some sort of ritual at the end of

710
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 2: the day. And again, I don't think it should be sex,

711
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: because I think that sex is that's the worst time

712
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 2: to have sex at the very end of the day,

713
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: but some sort of little ritual. It could be two minutes,

714
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 2: doesn't need to be a big deal. Or maybe you

715
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: both just crawl into bed together and you spend two

716
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: minutes cuddling or two minutes talking about how your day was,

717
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 2: but do something to wrap up the day together.

718
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: Okay, And you know what I just thought of. You

719
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: know what, Bill and I sometimes sleep in separate rooms

720
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: because of that schedule and that sort of thing. You

721
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: could even make that part of this flirting and the spiciness.

722
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: So like I go, good night Bill. Oh no, I'm

723
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 1: not in the mood. Yeah, no, good night and night. Okay,

724
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow. No, I still think you're attractive, but

725
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm just not in the mood tonight. And then ten

726
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: minutes later I knock on the door and I go,

727
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: did someone order chocolate or like special delivery? And I

728
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: come in and like, you kind of make it sexy,

729
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

730
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: That could be very fun. I think you would like

731
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: that a lot.

732
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'll tell him, all right, Vanessa, thank

733
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: you so much. If people want to get your online guides,

734
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: where did they go for that?

735
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 2: They can go to vmtherapy dot com. It's my initials

736
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: V M T h E R A p y dot com.

737
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: Our most popular one is the Ultimate four Play Guide,

738
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: which has over one hundred unique techniques. We have gotten

739
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: the best feedback. People will tell us like I use

740
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: that on my husband and he was literally speechless for

741
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: ten minutes hourards sois are very fun and it's just

742
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: a fun place to start. It's not, you know, nothing's wrong,

743
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: nobody's having to have any serious conversations. It's just pure fun.

744
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 2: And our ultimate sex positions are very very fun as well,

745
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: so would definitely recommend checking those out. And we'd also

746
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: love to connect with anyone from your community. On Instagram.

747
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: We're at Vanessa and xanders Anders with an x and

748
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: we make a lot of content there specifically to open

749
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: up conversations between partners. So if you want to get

750
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: talking with your partner, want this to feel like a

751
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: more lighthearted topic in your relationship, because it should. Sex

752
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to feel serious and heavy and scary. It

753
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: should feel playful and light and fun. You can go

754
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: check us out there too.

755
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm literally coowey. Hold on, I'm not kidding. I'm doing

756
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: it right now, and let me tell you why. I'm

757
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: going to follow you right now on Instagram, and Vanessa

758
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: and then a ND and then XA and d are

759
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: yes exactly.

760
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: We make a lot of ridiculous content too. We act

761
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: out the worst sex positions we've ever found on the internet.

762
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, really, hold on, Vanessa's Okay, So here

763
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: it is Vanessa Xander. Okay, so I'm going to follow

764
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: oh one point three million followers. You go, Okay, I'm

765
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: following you because you know why, because what if I forget,

766
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: like to do all of this and then having following

767
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: you on Instagram? Now you're just gonna pop up and

768
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fun videos and it's like, you know

769
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: what I mean, And that's the name of the game,

770
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: you guys, is to just like you have to make

771
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: this part of your everyday life or every other day life,

772
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, like that You're just this has got to

773
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: be top of mind, especially for a lot of people

774
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: who just like I forgotten about it, and by those

775
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: people I mean me. So I'm going to be better

776
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: about it. Vanessa, You're the best. Thank you so much

777
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: for joining me. I'll fill Bill in on the conversation

778
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: for sure, but thank you so much. This was awesome.

779
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me