WEBVTT - Salesforce Now Focused More on Profitability 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:07.240 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.880 This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.640 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.800 global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:26.200 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:29.800 We want to get to a couple of tech companies 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.200 for you. One that is sliding. In today's session, Tim, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:34.480 we are talking about salesforce. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.880 Yeah, sure, sliding by the most in close to two decades. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.640 This after the company projected the slowest quarterly sales growth 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.280 in its history, renewing concerns that the company will be 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.840 left behind in the AI boom. The outlook heightening investors' 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.040 fears over salesforces sliding sales growth in the past year 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.040 as the company has turned its attention to bolstering profit. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.080 Joining us now is on arog Rana, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.920 technology analyst. He joins us from Chicago. Honourah, good to 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.640 have you with us. It was interesting because as soon 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.039 as these numbers came out yesterday, we were covering it 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.039 live on TV and radio. We started we started to 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:13.679 see the selloff start, but it really gained momentum when 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.880 people really started to see what that second quarter outlook 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.520 would mean for the company. What's the big concern here 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:21.000 when it comes to salesforce. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.600 See, the big concern is the size of salesforce is 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.720 too big that it's not immune to any macro slowdown. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.440 And that's what we're seeing right now. What is happening 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.440 is corporations are spending a lot more money on hardware 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.520 and chips right now, and they're reallocating their budgets from 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.920 the bucket of other areas such as software and consulting 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.120 and services, and they are buying you know, hardware equipment 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:47.800 with it, and that's really having an impact on not 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.640 just salesforce. It's is not the only one. We saw. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.240 The same thing happened with Workday a few days ago, 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.600 and you know, we envision this is going to be 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.040 the same story that plays out in July when other 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.960 software companies report, whether it says p Service Now Microsoft, 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:03.800 although we think it's going to be a lot less 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.560 for Microsoft and SAP, but this is going to be 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.080 a common theme of prolonged spending for the entire group. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.760 You mentioned Service Now and other software companies not being 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.600 immune to this service now down twelve percent. Carol in 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:17.400 sympathy with this. 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:19.760 Hey listen, so Anna rug, is it just a case 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.919 of delayed purchasing. So in other words, we're spending on 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.320 you know, hardware, we're spending on chips big, big time 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:28.160 right now. But eventually we're going to get to the 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.520 software and we'll be spending down the road. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.480 Yeah, and again, you know what had happened is we 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.400 saw some signs of recovery a couple of quarters ago 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.480 with this entire group for sales, for example, you know, 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.119 their leading indicator is a metric called CRPO. It went 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.519 from eleven percent growth to thirteen and thirteen and yesterday 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.240 dropped down to ten. So what happens is we were 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.639 baking in a recovery in the second half in terms 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:54.960 of the growth rates picking up. Now that's probably a 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.400 twenty twenty five story. So for the next six months, 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.520 not a whole lot happening in the space. So people 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.960 are basic saying, let me go find value somewhere. That's 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.400 what's really happening. We still believe long term software still 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.000 has a long way to go in terms of total 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.200 addressable market. I think AI helps the space, but it's 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.240 not going to be as quick and as easy to 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.600 see as let's say in video. It's going to take 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:17.040 some time. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.839 Is there a cyclical nature to this? On a rock 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.400 with the idea that Okay, maybe we won't see spending 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.519 on software and services right now, but we'll start to 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.160 see it pick up again once these companies have purchased 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.520 the hardware that they need to sort of make the 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:34.320 transition to AI. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.720 Yeah, that is actually the waterfall effect. It's usually semiconductor 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.640 and hardware first, then it trickles down to software subscriptions, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.240 then it trickles down to services. We have seen this 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.640 game over the last twenty twenty five years. It's not 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.880 the first time, but we were surprised by the degree 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.400 of this what happens. And I think in addition to 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.080 the reallocation of budgets, I think the macroeconomic situation because 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:02.680 of the geopolitical concerns, probably also force CIOs and CFOs 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.320 to say, you know what, let's wait and wait for 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.560 that you know, million dollar software purchase or expanding our 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:09.680 footprint right now. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.160 Hey, we just want to mention a headline crossing the 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.720 Bloomberg terminal. This is coming from routers TikTok is preparing 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.200 a US copy of the app's core algorithm. So again 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.080 this is coming from Router's Hey, anaag before we move 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.520 on to another company. Any thoughts, I know this isn't 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.800 necessarily your world, but to hear that again coming from 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.360 routers TikTok preparing a US copy of the app's core algorithm. 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.160 We talk so much about the importance of that algorithm 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.200 to TikTok. 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.560 Any thoughts, I. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.560 Think this is a lot more about politics than that's 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.200 actually technology. So you know, well, let's leave it at that. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.440 But I think you know this story is not going 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.400 to come to an end very soon. It's going to 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:47.520 be dragged out, all right. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.000 Good to know. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.240 Hey, listen and appreciate you weighing in on Salesforce. Salesforce 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.040 and rag Rana is Bloomberg Intelligence senior technology analyst. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.240 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch Just 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.080 Live weekday afternoons from two pm Eastern Listen on Apple 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.720 car Play and then brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:06.880 app or wants us live on YouTube. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.799 So you know this Inn Muss, who's the bus of Tesla, 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.880 the world's largest ev maker, Tesla though in disarray. Layofs 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:20.280 are mounting, morale shattered, stock cratering, sales are anemic. Here's 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:25.120 the thing. Carol Musk also runs five other companies, SpaceX 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:31.240 X formerly known as Twitter Xai, that Ai intell, that 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.560 Ai Venture, the Boring Company, It's the Tunnel Company, and 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:36.640 then the brain machine startup Neuralink. 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.600 Yeah, he's got his hands in a lot of different pots. 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.760 He oversees more one hundred and thirty thousand people around 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:41.080 the world. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:41.719 That's a lot. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.320 And while he burns brightly at the center of this 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:49.200 corporate universe, a less visible coterie of consultants, fixers, board 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.159 and family members really orbit around him. Which it gets 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.599 us to today's Bloomberg Big Take, which I highly recommend 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.920 you check out on the Bloomberger at Bloomberg dot com 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:59.520 because it's interactive and fun. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:05:59.880 To check out. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:01.560 Yet it is one of the most read stories on 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.480 the terminal, and it maps out the people who make 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.320 Elon's galaxy of companies run. The story by Bloomberg News 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.719 senior technology reporter Dana Hull and Bloomberg News technology reporter 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.760 Kurt Wagner. Dana joins us from San Francisco. Kurt out 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.520 there in Denver. Kurt also the author of Battle for 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.000 the Bird, Jack Dorsey elon Musk in the forty four 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.440 billion dollar Fight for twitters Soul. Check out this story 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.960 and more from the Bloomberg Big Take on the Bloomberg 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.040 Terminal and at Bloomberg dot Com Slash Big Take. Great 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.680 to have you both with us. As Carol mentioned, it's 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.159 a fun interactive piece that you should definitely check out 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.760 online and click around a little bit because you can 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.720 learn a lot with your cursor. Dana, I want to 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.200 start with you, and I want you to set the 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.240 scene here from the Tesla perspective, just how bad are 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.720 things at Tesla and in the musconermy, I. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.919 Mean they're pretty bad. You know, to lose thirty percent 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.040 of your you know, to be down thirty percent at 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.200 this point in the year is pretty significant. And we've 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.960 seen globally sort of a slow down and ev sale 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.120 and Tesla you know, got rid of nearly twenty percent 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.320 of its workforce in April, so just a lot has happened. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.160 LinkedIn is full of people talking about how disappointed they 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.760 are at the way the layoffs went down, and simultaneously, 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.120 Musk is like out raising money for his latest startup, 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.240 So there's this kind of growing consternation that he's not 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.360 fully focused on what's happening at Tesla. 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.640 All right, Kurt, come on into the conversation, because you know, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.560 we think there's six different companies, right, and I guess 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.640 they're not. They all maybe don't seem compatible. But what 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.280 really matters, right is what's going on in Tesla and 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.960 the profitability. Because if things are going well, maybe investors 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.920 and individuals look elsewhere. But when things start to go wrong, 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.520 Tesla the money maker, if you will, things are maybe 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:46.320 looked at differently. 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.160 I mean, we're seeing this right now in terms of 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.720 the complaints that we're hearing from Tesla investors about Elon's time, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.320 Elon being distracted right when the company. When Tesla's doing well, 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.080 when the stock's going up, Elon's allowed to sort of 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.720 tinker with all these other businesses that he's running, and 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.920 people sort of just accept that and they let him 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.080 do that. But when things at Tesla aren't going well, 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.000 all of a sudden, his time is called into question, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.720 his attentions called into question. And you have to remember 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.600 almost all of Elon's wealth is tied up in Tesla too, right, 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.440 So when the stock was doing bad, that effects the 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.520 loans that he takes out of That affects his liquidity, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.080 his ability to finance some of these other businesses. So 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.320 Tesla truly is like the engine behind this entire universe, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.080 and so when things are going poorly there, it really 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:30.160 does have a trickle effect. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.319 All right, So, Dana, how did you guys figure out 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:34.320 I've been playing with this. Tim's been playing them with 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:35.200 this online. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.240 Trying to count how many names we lost. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.960 We lost track, right, and some of them work for 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.240 him directly, some of them don't. So how did you 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.120 guys kind of figure out how many or who you 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:45.760 wanted to put on this list? 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:46.280 Yeah? 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:47.880 So, I mean Kurt and I spent a lot of 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.319 time kind of going back and forth with this spreadsheet 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.880 of names, and it was tricky because it's by no 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.800 means definitive, right, And you know, if you did a 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.959 traditional ORG chart for X or Tesla or even SpaceX, 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.199 it would be obsolete in like a week because executives 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.560 come and go, there's layoffs. So we didn't want to 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.320 publish something that was going to be immediately stale, and 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.080 so we really kind of tried to focus on the 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.280 key executives at each company, but more than that, the 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:20.000 kind of stable of investors, family members, advisors, legal strategists, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.839 people like Jared Birchall, who oversees Musk's family office. Kind 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.439 of like these long time loyalists who are with Musk 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.040 through thick and thin and pop up over and over again. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.760 And then we just sort of had the idea, well, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.959 let's make it a solar system that's kind of fluid 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.120 and dynamic with Elon at the center. And I think 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.560 it turned out really well. You know, I think you 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.520 can learn a lot about a lot. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:43.040 Of these people. 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.320 I mean, Kurt knows this as well as I do 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.000 from working on his book. A lot of these names 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.920 come from trials, depositions, you know, a lot of them. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.160 Like when Musk was first thinking about buying Twitter. I mean, 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.000 there was a trial transcript that had all these text 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.200 messages from all of these friends, and so, you know, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.920 we pulled these names from a lot of public records. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:05.920 Okay, So I want to go through some of the 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.400 names here and then start with the folks who are 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:09.800 closest to Elon's orbit. 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:10.720 Danny. 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.280 You mentioned Jared Birchall. Kurt, I want to ask you 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.480 about Kimball Musk, Elon's brother. By the way, there are 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.280 a few folks on this list who have the same 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.000 last name as Elon, which we'll talk about in a minute. 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.520 But Kimball someone who's been close to Musk his entire life, 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.240 and he's also served on boards various boards of various companies. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:36.440 Kurt, that's right, And I think he's one of those people, 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.200 one of the few people probably in this orbit who 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.440 has been known to push back on Elon right and 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.120 actually call him out in certain things. We know that 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.760 when Elon was looking to buy Twitter, for example, Kimball 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:50.680 was there basically saying, are you sure you want to 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.679 do this? Like this feels like a bad idea, And 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.880 that's not the kind of thing that Elon hears very often. 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.880 And so I think having someone you know, who is 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.000 a family member, who obviously is a huge supporter of 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.520 his brother, you know, Kimball is certainly an ally, but 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.440 at the very least, is you know, willing to sort 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.760 of challenge some of his ideas, I think makes him 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.320 sort of a unique person within this orbit. Dana could 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.240 correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.360 a unique role that he sort of plays as compared 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:20.559 to some of these other folks. 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:22.920 Oh for sure. I mean, you know, the sort of 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.640 wrap on Elon is that he's surrounded by yes men, 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.360 and that Kimball, as his brother, is like one of 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.560 the few people who can actually tell him no or 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.000 feels confident in telling him no. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:32.600 Yeah. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.520 I also should note Kimball makes a pretty good steak. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.000 I was out in Colorado a few weeks ago and 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.280 I went to one of his restaurants, just randomly. A 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:42.959 friend wanted to. 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.040 Go there, you touch, Yeah, this should I try. 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.600 To expense the meal? I think I should. I was 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.320 doing some serious Kimball was not there. I did ask 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.160 the bartender if he comes in much, and she did 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.120 say he's been known to make an appearance. Remember he 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.280 is a chef. Okay, okay, I'm getting off topic here 0:11:58.280 --> 0:11:58.679 a little bit. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:11:59.440 That's okay. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:11:59.920 We like that. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.440 It just shows, you know, interesting folks in. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:08.200 Elon's orbit, Dana, who would you consider when Elon has 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.160 to think something through beyond maybe Kimball? 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:12.440 Like who does he go to? 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.840 Well, that's a really good question, and I think it 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.199 depends on for what. So if it's if we're talking 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.959 about geopolitics, or the twenty twenty four presidential campaign, it's 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:28.119 probably people like David Sachs. If we're talking about a lawsuit, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.240 it's probably Alex Spiro. If we're talking about raising money 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.240 for xat Ai or one of his other adventures, it's 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.760 probably Jared Birshall. So I think it sort of depends 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.280 on what the topic is. But you know, I think 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.160 what's interesting to think through about Elon is that this 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.200 is a guy who became a millionaire when he was 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.720 in his twenties. I mean, he made his first millions 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.920 when he sold his PayPal shares and started SpaceX back 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.839 in twenty two thousand and three, I think for two 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.880 thousand and two, and then you know, when you become 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:01.800 very wealthy at a very young age. I think it's 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.200 hard to trust people, and so the people that Elon 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.480 trusts tend to be people that he's known for quite 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.120 a long time, and a lot of these friendships date 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.000 back to those very early days. 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:11.679 Kurt. 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.000 And one of the things I was thinking about is 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:14.920 we went through this story that you guys put together, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:16.360 is that often. 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:17.720 When we bring up anything to do. 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.480 With Elon's orbit, we talk about Elon, but there are 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.120 really important you know, I think about the cover story 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.240 I think that was on BusinessWeek about SpaceX a few 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.480 years ago that really talked about, you know, Gwen and 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.559 how much she was behind kind of the. 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:33.240 Success of it. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.080 And I just wonder, I think about our audience who 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.880 they should know about in Elon's orbit to kind of 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.199 build on what Dana just said. 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.679 Yeah, I mean, I think the whole reason we did 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.360 this project is he was running six companies. You can't 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.920 actually run six companies and be president all the time, right, 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.319 So there are people like Gwen Shotwell who you alluded to, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.960 that are sort of, you know, holding down the fort 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.240 when Elon's out and about, and so I think Gwen 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.880 is certainly a great example. It's Linda Yakerino is the 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.920 CEO of X. We've talked about her often and she 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.960 is on the list. So I think, you know, Dana 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.080 has a handful of Tesla executives that are very prevalent 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.199 and important to keep that company running when Elon's off 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.480 to another thing. So the whole purpose of this project 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.320 really was to give people a sense of like who 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.480 is running the day to day of these companies when 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.280 Elon is is at one of his other businesses and 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.600 they are very important, very relevant people on this list, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.440 and so I think it's you know, for people who 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.800 care about Musk or the muscotomy. As you mentioned, it's 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:34.520 a good you know, it's a good universe to have 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:35.400 a familiarity with. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:36.520 Is it also important? 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.400 I think it was the Wall Street Journal that was 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:43.120 talking about inside Donald Trump and Elon Musk's growing alliance, 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.760 and you know, Dana, do we need to be thinking 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.520 that maybe Elon could find himself in some kind of 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.160 significant position in the White House and so these people 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.400 become even more important in terms of Elon's businesses. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.640 Yeah, I mean the Wall Street Journal story was fascinating. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.400 Pushed back on that a little bit today early he 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.960 tweeted earlier today that there is there has been no 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.480 discussion about a role for me in a Trump white House. 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.480 But you know, the election is still several months away, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.920 and clearly Musk is going to have some kind of influence, 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.600 whether that's a cabinet position or just being an informal advisor. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.720 I mean, we already know that Musk served on President 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.320 Trump's business councils during the first administration, so it would 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.440 not be unprecedented for him to play some kind of role, 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.040 even though Musk seems to be sort of throwing cold 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.720 water on that idea. But yeah, I mean I think 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.840 I think that Musk's role in the election is going 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.440 to be key. You know, we know that David Sachs, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.240 who's a friend of Musk's, is hosting a fundraiser for 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.680 Trump here in San Francisco next week. And you know 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.200 this is I mean, influential people tend to influence each 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.400 other in all kinds of ways. And you know, again, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.200 we just really hope that people will take time with 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.960 this interactive graphic and get to know these other names, 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.760 because if you're an investor, or an employee or a 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.600 customer of any of these companies, she should really get 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.360 to know the people beyond Elon who have a lot 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.320 to do with how the company is operating. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.760 I was struck by the two names around Neuralink. Chavon Zillis, 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.440 who would be familiar to two people who've been following 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.920 Elon closely for a couple of years, because she doesn't 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:24.520 just work at Neuralink, She's also connected to Elon in 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:25.480 another important way. 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:25.840 Kurt. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.760 Yeah, she's the mother of I believe two of Elon's children, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.200 and so it just kind of goes to show you, 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.760 you know, the relationships that he has with these people 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:42.360 oftentimes are much broader or much deeper than just the 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.160 business aspect of things. And I think one of the 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.640 you know, if you read the accompanying story with this graphic, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.960 what Dan and I tried to do was give people 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.640 a sense of like, if you work for Elon or 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.119 if you have a relationship with Elon in one capacity, 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.600 you sort of are expected to show up in all 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.720 of the other areas of his life where he might 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.120 need you. And so we saw that probably most prominently 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.000 with the Twitter takeover. Right he shows up, walks in 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:07.919 the building with the sink, and all of a sudden, 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.199 all of these people from the various corners of his 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.840 universe show up with him. And you know, Chavan's a 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.080 unique example, not everyone's, you know, having children with Elon, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.040 of course, but the point being is that it's not 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.919 just like a one relationship thing. You know, if you 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:23.880 work with Elon at SpaceX, you might have to help 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.040 out at Tesla X in the future. And that seems 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.359 to be a pattern that we've noticed over the years. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:29.760 We're going to ask you to of you and I'm 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.480 going to start with you first, Kurt. One name you 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.399 want to leave kind of our audience with, because you 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.359 guys have done the homework in a big way and 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.400 put out names that we don't typically maybe talk about 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.800 when we're talking about Elon's orbit. So just you know, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.440 thirty forty seconds here one name. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.840 Sure, this is a little bit of a well known one, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.800 but I just think he's so important. Which is Jared Birchall. 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.560 And I was just literally writing a story last night. He's, 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.080 as Dana mentioned, Elon's sort of money guy, his business manager. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:57.880 And I was just writing a story last night. He's 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.720 been named in lawsuits alongside Elon. He anything that's to 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.760 do with money and Elon, Jared's involved, and so I 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.119 just think, you know, he is so incredibly important to 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.080 understanding the broader universe. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.440 Here, okay, Dana, same question over to you. One name 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:10.560 you want to leave our audience with? 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.520 Oh Mead afshar So. Oh Meied works for Elon and 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.919 like he's he's like this kind of like chief of 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.800 staff role. He was at Tesla. He oversaw the construction 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.040 of the Tesla gigafactory. Then he was on like a 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.280 weird leave of absence, and he popped up at SpaceX 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.800 as like a vice president and he's just always around like, 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.000 oh Mead. Is is kind of like the new Sam 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.879 Teller if you remember who Sam Teller was, but Omeed 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.120 has a very influential role. 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:36.800 Love this. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.040 This is gonna be a go to I know for 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.960