1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:25,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. Growing up, 2 00:00:25,436 --> 00:00:30,356 Speaker 1: there was not a single positive reference that I remember 3 00:00:30,676 --> 00:00:35,156 Speaker 1: in media or popular culture or anything like. I grew 4 00:00:35,236 --> 00:00:37,556 Speaker 1: up with Peter Pan and like the whole like what 5 00:00:37,676 --> 00:00:40,716 Speaker 1: makes the Red Man Red? And then we got Disney Spokeahonis, 6 00:00:40,796 --> 00:00:45,116 Speaker 1: which everyone thought was a sort of good depiction of natives, 7 00:00:45,116 --> 00:00:48,356 Speaker 1: and it did make some limited strides, But then that 8 00:00:48,436 --> 00:00:51,156 Speaker 1: meant that everyone would just when I said I was Native, 9 00:00:51,156 --> 00:00:54,076 Speaker 1: would like sing Colors of the Wind to me. You 10 00:00:54,156 --> 00:00:56,396 Speaker 1: might remember this conversation I had in twenty twenty one 11 00:00:56,436 --> 00:00:59,516 Speaker 1: with doctor Adrian Keane, a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, 12 00:00:59,836 --> 00:01:03,476 Speaker 1: scholar and author of Notable Native People. We were talking 13 00:01:03,476 --> 00:01:07,396 Speaker 1: about the erasiar and invisibility of Indigenous people. We agreed 14 00:01:07,436 --> 00:01:09,756 Speaker 1: that there was a disconnect between the way Natives are 15 00:01:09,756 --> 00:01:13,276 Speaker 1: portrayed on film and television and the realities of Native 16 00:01:13,316 --> 00:01:16,476 Speaker 1: and Indigenous life. What I love about movies and cinemas 17 00:01:16,516 --> 00:01:19,196 Speaker 1: that like, you can create a world, and if you 18 00:01:19,276 --> 00:01:22,196 Speaker 1: do it right, an audience will go along with you, 19 00:01:22,236 --> 00:01:24,916 Speaker 1: and they go into your world that you've created, and 20 00:01:25,796 --> 00:01:28,476 Speaker 1: they give themselves over to that. And already had a 21 00:01:28,556 --> 00:01:31,316 Speaker 1: leg up because the world I come from is so unknown. 22 00:01:32,276 --> 00:01:35,956 Speaker 1: That's filmmaker Sterlin Harjoe, a citizen of the Seminal Nation 23 00:01:35,996 --> 00:01:40,316 Speaker 1: of Oklahoma. He's the creator and showrunner of Reservation Dogs. 24 00:01:40,676 --> 00:01:43,276 Speaker 1: It's an FX series about a group of Native American 25 00:01:43,316 --> 00:01:47,596 Speaker 1: teenagers coming of age on a reservation in Oklahoma. I mean, 26 00:01:47,636 --> 00:01:50,676 Speaker 1: like we only talk about the warriors and the heroes 27 00:01:50,676 --> 00:01:52,316 Speaker 1: and stuff. It was like, you know, what about the 28 00:01:52,316 --> 00:01:55,756 Speaker 1: ones that didn't do shit or they were scared, like 29 00:01:56,356 --> 00:01:59,836 Speaker 1: the diet because their horse hit a gopher hole. You know, 30 00:01:59,876 --> 00:02:02,316 Speaker 1: like like what about them? You know, like that's also 31 00:02:02,356 --> 00:02:05,396 Speaker 1: a part of us. Harjo's other work, including award winning 32 00:02:05,396 --> 00:02:09,116 Speaker 1: feature films and documentaries, has also largely focused on Native 33 00:02:09,156 --> 00:02:13,396 Speaker 1: of history, identity, and culture. In Reservation Dogs, he strives 34 00:02:13,396 --> 00:02:18,636 Speaker 1: to portray fully realized Indigenous books in America, a departure 35 00:02:18,876 --> 00:02:21,516 Speaker 1: from the representation that some of us may be all 36 00:02:21,516 --> 00:02:26,116 Speaker 1: too familiar with. My name is Charlin Harjoe. I am filmmaker, creator, 37 00:02:26,196 --> 00:02:30,196 Speaker 1: showrunner of Reservation Dogs, and I feel that representing the 38 00:02:30,236 --> 00:02:37,596 Speaker 1: humanity of Native people is a solvable problem. I think 39 00:02:37,596 --> 00:02:40,636 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing is very tangible when it 40 00:02:40,676 --> 00:02:43,716 Speaker 1: comes to stopping the erasure of a culture. Can you 41 00:02:43,756 --> 00:02:46,156 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how your work is encouraging 42 00:02:46,196 --> 00:02:50,516 Speaker 1: that visibility. We just tell the truth, you show the good, 43 00:02:50,676 --> 00:02:53,076 Speaker 1: you show the bad, because because that's what's missing is 44 00:02:53,076 --> 00:02:55,476 Speaker 1: we haven't been seen as human and humans are good 45 00:02:55,476 --> 00:02:59,076 Speaker 1: and bad, and we have to show those sides and 46 00:02:59,196 --> 00:03:02,156 Speaker 1: also tell a good story first, and then you're gonna 47 00:03:02,236 --> 00:03:07,236 Speaker 1: get the activism or the real stuff that we're going for. 48 00:03:07,476 --> 00:03:10,236 Speaker 1: Right Like, as long as I a good story, like 49 00:03:10,436 --> 00:03:12,636 Speaker 1: that's the trojan horse, right Like, you tell the good 50 00:03:12,676 --> 00:03:15,156 Speaker 1: story and you get in there. I feel like I 51 00:03:15,276 --> 00:03:17,996 Speaker 1: know how to bring us into the rest of the world. 52 00:03:18,316 --> 00:03:20,356 Speaker 1: I was so proud to be able to do it 53 00:03:20,396 --> 00:03:23,196 Speaker 1: because I feel like I had known how to do 54 00:03:23,236 --> 00:03:24,756 Speaker 1: I feel like I know how to do it, you know, 55 00:03:24,796 --> 00:03:27,036 Speaker 1: because you know how it is, like like as soon 56 00:03:27,076 --> 00:03:30,516 Speaker 1: as you're an underrepresented person gets to tell their story, 57 00:03:30,836 --> 00:03:33,436 Speaker 1: they don't want to share the darkness, they don't want 58 00:03:33,436 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 1: to share the blemishes. They only want us to look perfect. 59 00:03:36,876 --> 00:03:40,636 Speaker 1: They only want us us to be you know, everything, 60 00:03:40,636 --> 00:03:43,676 Speaker 1: to look amazing and like, you know, like like there's 61 00:03:43,676 --> 00:03:46,356 Speaker 1: no issues here, like because like it's it's the pendulum swinging, 62 00:03:46,476 --> 00:03:47,996 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like one of the best things 63 00:03:47,996 --> 00:03:51,556 Speaker 1: about this show is the feedback I've gotten from the community, 64 00:03:51,596 --> 00:03:54,276 Speaker 1: people from all over indigenous communities writing me and saying, men, 65 00:03:54,396 --> 00:03:57,876 Speaker 1: like my kids are finally feel like they're seeing something 66 00:03:57,916 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 1: that represents them. Like I mean, my dad said the 67 00:04:00,156 --> 00:04:02,916 Speaker 1: other day, it was like you've given them an identity again, 68 00:04:02,956 --> 00:04:06,036 Speaker 1: Like we can be proud. And part of that being proud, 69 00:04:06,276 --> 00:04:13,236 Speaker 1: I think is just showing us as flawed, beautiful human 70 00:04:13,276 --> 00:04:17,196 Speaker 1: beings and showing that we face death and that sometimes 71 00:04:17,276 --> 00:04:20,956 Speaker 1: we can't handle life and sometimes we sometimes we are upset, 72 00:04:21,036 --> 00:04:23,916 Speaker 1: and sometimes we're not good people, and sometimes we're really good, 73 00:04:23,956 --> 00:04:26,916 Speaker 1: you know, and just showing that, letting people kind of 74 00:04:26,956 --> 00:04:29,276 Speaker 1: relax a little bit and take a breath, and that 75 00:04:29,316 --> 00:04:32,756 Speaker 1: we don't have to be these historical figures that that 76 00:04:33,076 --> 00:04:36,196 Speaker 1: fought and lost or won for our land and like 77 00:04:36,516 --> 00:04:38,556 Speaker 1: and it was just kind of shaking that off and 78 00:04:39,036 --> 00:04:40,836 Speaker 1: like a good blues song, you know, it's like what 79 00:04:40,956 --> 00:04:43,036 Speaker 1: is the how do you strip it down to what 80 00:04:43,076 --> 00:04:45,156 Speaker 1: it is? You know, It's like, yeah, without all the 81 00:04:45,196 --> 00:04:47,316 Speaker 1: fancy stuff, like what are we? We're human, you know, 82 00:04:47,356 --> 00:04:49,636 Speaker 1: and like you try to tell that the truth and 83 00:04:49,716 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 1: the and the and the and the light and the 84 00:04:51,636 --> 00:04:53,476 Speaker 1: darkness with that, and I think that that's what makes 85 00:04:53,476 --> 00:04:56,356 Speaker 1: a difference, and that's what gets people to identify with it, 86 00:04:56,516 --> 00:04:58,836 Speaker 1: and watching the show, I felt that I felt, you know, 87 00:04:58,876 --> 00:05:02,556 Speaker 1: watching a show like yours, watching a show like Rami Atlanta. 88 00:05:02,876 --> 00:05:05,276 Speaker 1: I feel like there's other shows where they're just showing 89 00:05:05,396 --> 00:05:09,076 Speaker 1: humans of cultures that have been have been in America 90 00:05:09,116 --> 00:05:11,116 Speaker 1: and a part of America for a long time, but 91 00:05:11,196 --> 00:05:12,996 Speaker 1: showing them as human. But I think one of the 92 00:05:12,996 --> 00:05:15,276 Speaker 1: most interesting ways that you did in a Reservation Dogs 93 00:05:15,676 --> 00:05:18,516 Speaker 1: was that you have a bear. One of the main characters, 94 00:05:19,076 --> 00:05:22,116 Speaker 1: Jeans T Shirt, teenage boy. He is talking to one 95 00:05:22,116 --> 00:05:26,516 Speaker 1: of his ancestors, his grandfather uncle cousin, who explicitly states 96 00:05:26,596 --> 00:05:28,676 Speaker 1: that he's not one of the awesome ones. But I 97 00:05:28,756 --> 00:05:31,276 Speaker 1: fought bravely. Well. I didn't actually fight. I actually didn't 98 00:05:31,276 --> 00:05:33,116 Speaker 1: even get into the fight itself, but came over that 99 00:05:33,196 --> 00:05:36,316 Speaker 1: hill real real good like. But then the damn horse 100 00:05:36,956 --> 00:05:39,956 Speaker 1: hit a gopher hole, fucking rolled over and squashed me. 101 00:05:40,876 --> 00:05:44,756 Speaker 1: I died there. He was just the guy who who 102 00:05:44,876 --> 00:05:47,996 Speaker 1: died on his horse after horse fell into a hole. 103 00:05:48,356 --> 00:05:51,836 Speaker 1: I thought, what's hilarious was all of that? The inspiration 104 00:05:51,876 --> 00:05:56,636 Speaker 1: behind giving Bear this very regular ancestor to guide him totally. 105 00:05:56,756 --> 00:05:58,956 Speaker 1: I mean, like we only talked about the warriors and 106 00:05:59,476 --> 00:06:01,236 Speaker 1: the heroes and stuff. I was like, you know, what 107 00:06:01,316 --> 00:06:04,196 Speaker 1: about the ones that didn't do shit or they were 108 00:06:04,236 --> 00:06:09,676 Speaker 1: scared die because their horse hit a gopher hole? Like 109 00:06:09,676 --> 00:06:12,116 Speaker 1: like what about them? Yeah, Like that's also a part 110 00:06:12,156 --> 00:06:14,356 Speaker 1: of us. And I think one thing that's important about 111 00:06:14,356 --> 00:06:17,276 Speaker 1: that character. I'm glad you brought it up is what 112 00:06:17,396 --> 00:06:21,196 Speaker 1: I learned because we had a comedy group Dallas Goals, 113 00:06:21,556 --> 00:06:23,396 Speaker 1: who plays Spirit, We had a comedy We have a 114 00:06:23,396 --> 00:06:25,356 Speaker 1: comedy group and we would travel around and we really 115 00:06:25,436 --> 00:06:28,396 Speaker 1: learned like what works for non native audiences for native 116 00:06:28,476 --> 00:06:31,996 Speaker 1: humor and what doesn't specifically wide audiences. You know what 117 00:06:31,996 --> 00:06:34,956 Speaker 1: I'm saying, um like because you gotta almost give them 118 00:06:34,956 --> 00:06:37,836 Speaker 1: permission to laugh when it's Native stuff because they want 119 00:06:37,876 --> 00:06:40,556 Speaker 1: to be like so like oh I find the same 120 00:06:40,636 --> 00:06:43,916 Speaker 1: thing with black humor, but continue exactly right, like you 121 00:06:43,956 --> 00:06:46,236 Speaker 1: gotta you gotta like oh like like oh I don't 122 00:06:46,236 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 1: want to laugh, like you know, you had to give 123 00:06:48,396 --> 00:06:51,196 Speaker 1: them permission a laugh. And it was it was a 124 00:06:51,436 --> 00:06:53,436 Speaker 1: taking the stereotype that like if I were to say, 125 00:06:53,476 --> 00:06:56,716 Speaker 1: like like draw me a Native American, like they wouldn't 126 00:06:56,756 --> 00:06:58,996 Speaker 1: draw bearer, they would draw spirit. You know. It's a 127 00:06:59,156 --> 00:07:02,196 Speaker 1: delicate thing, like trying to get people to laugh at 128 00:07:02,236 --> 00:07:05,716 Speaker 1: things that they're used to not laughing with or about 129 00:07:05,916 --> 00:07:08,516 Speaker 1: or anything, you know. So I think that that character 130 00:07:08,556 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 1: specifically was kind of works as that mechanism. I guess. 131 00:07:12,796 --> 00:07:16,076 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about how you got into film. 132 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:18,156 Speaker 1: You know. I got into college and I was at 133 00:07:18,196 --> 00:07:22,436 Speaker 1: the University of Oklahoma, and I took an intro to 134 00:07:22,476 --> 00:07:27,116 Speaker 1: film and video studies with this Hungarian professor named Misha Nadelkovich, 135 00:07:27,836 --> 00:07:31,436 Speaker 1: and his like love for cinema was so contagious. And 136 00:07:31,516 --> 00:07:35,116 Speaker 1: it was when I discovered that it was a language 137 00:07:35,356 --> 00:07:37,836 Speaker 1: was when I was pumped, and like that's when I 138 00:07:37,876 --> 00:07:42,756 Speaker 1: really got into it. It was like, okay, I like 139 00:07:42,796 --> 00:07:46,836 Speaker 1: when I realized it wasn't just pointing a camera towards something, 140 00:07:46,916 --> 00:07:49,716 Speaker 1: it was literally like telling stories with the camera and 141 00:07:49,836 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: using cameras and shots too, and music and everything all 142 00:07:53,596 --> 00:07:57,316 Speaker 1: the senses to tell a story. I just really, I 143 00:07:57,356 --> 00:07:59,516 Speaker 1: don't know, I fell in love and I didn't look back. 144 00:07:59,556 --> 00:08:00,916 Speaker 1: I was like, I have to do this, you know, 145 00:08:00,916 --> 00:08:03,396 Speaker 1: And and it's sort of that sort of coincided with 146 00:08:03,436 --> 00:08:06,436 Speaker 1: me discovering that I was a pretty good writer. I 147 00:08:06,436 --> 00:08:08,876 Speaker 1: think I was always a good storyteller. I just was 148 00:08:08,956 --> 00:08:12,116 Speaker 1: not confident in writing. But it was in college that 149 00:08:12,156 --> 00:08:14,676 Speaker 1: I discovered that I could, you know, with a little work, 150 00:08:14,716 --> 00:08:17,436 Speaker 1: I could write. College is the time that we all 151 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:20,156 Speaker 1: become a lot more self aware. I think that was 152 00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:24,236 Speaker 1: identified most with my blackness when I got to college 153 00:08:24,596 --> 00:08:27,476 Speaker 1: and I began to kind of express it and everything 154 00:08:27,516 --> 00:08:30,076 Speaker 1: that I did, you know, whether it was playing music, 155 00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:32,516 Speaker 1: talking to friends, whatever, it was like I had to 156 00:08:32,516 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 1: express my blackness. As you were becoming more creative and 157 00:08:35,436 --> 00:08:39,476 Speaker 1: writing and enjoying telling stories, did you find yourself having 158 00:08:39,516 --> 00:08:42,036 Speaker 1: that same level of expressiveness when it comes to your 159 00:08:42,036 --> 00:08:45,396 Speaker 1: indigenous heritage. Yeah, I mean, like it was there's two things. 160 00:08:45,436 --> 00:08:47,316 Speaker 1: I mean, like, on one hand, like I'd kind of 161 00:08:47,316 --> 00:08:50,356 Speaker 1: grown up in this community and I was hungry for 162 00:08:50,396 --> 00:08:54,476 Speaker 1: things like punk rock and indie rock, and like I 163 00:08:54,516 --> 00:08:58,236 Speaker 1: was wanting to express myself through art, and I was 164 00:08:58,276 --> 00:09:01,036 Speaker 1: discovering artists and cinnamon and all this stuff that had 165 00:09:01,076 --> 00:09:05,236 Speaker 1: nothing to do with my heritage or background, and I 166 00:09:05,316 --> 00:09:08,556 Speaker 1: really just kind of dove into all of that. But, 167 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:11,956 Speaker 1: like you said, a couple of years of that though, 168 00:09:12,356 --> 00:09:15,836 Speaker 1: when I started applying myself and writing and wanting to 169 00:09:15,876 --> 00:09:19,716 Speaker 1: be a filmmaker. Then I was like, oh, but this 170 00:09:19,756 --> 00:09:22,796 Speaker 1: is the thing that's unique about me. And then and 171 00:09:22,836 --> 00:09:25,676 Speaker 1: then it was like, oh, now, then I like discovered 172 00:09:25,756 --> 00:09:28,996 Speaker 1: rediscovered who I was and everything kind of came from 173 00:09:28,996 --> 00:09:33,156 Speaker 1: that lens after that, and I realized that, you know, 174 00:09:33,276 --> 00:09:36,356 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't have the leg up that 175 00:09:36,436 --> 00:09:38,956 Speaker 1: I had, Like I have this like I mean what 176 00:09:38,996 --> 00:09:41,796 Speaker 1: I love about movies and cinemas that like, you can 177 00:09:41,796 --> 00:09:45,116 Speaker 1: create a world and if you do it right, an 178 00:09:45,156 --> 00:09:47,676 Speaker 1: audience will go along with you and they go into 179 00:09:47,756 --> 00:09:51,156 Speaker 1: your world that you've created and they give themselves over 180 00:09:51,196 --> 00:09:53,476 Speaker 1: to that. And already had a leg up because the 181 00:09:53,476 --> 00:09:58,316 Speaker 1: world I come from is so unknown that it was 182 00:09:58,356 --> 00:10:00,356 Speaker 1: a little easier. I felt like to bring people into 183 00:10:00,356 --> 00:10:03,236 Speaker 1: this world that they didn't know, you know. So after that, 184 00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:07,476 Speaker 1: I'm very similar to you. Everything kind of filtered through 185 00:10:07,476 --> 00:10:11,036 Speaker 1: that lens. When you're making discoveries about new things that 186 00:10:11,116 --> 00:10:13,596 Speaker 1: you love that weren't necessarily a part of your culture 187 00:10:13,636 --> 00:10:15,836 Speaker 1: growing up, for instance, punk rock, but there are things 188 00:10:15,836 --> 00:10:18,716 Speaker 1: that you're introduced to that you love. As you become 189 00:10:18,756 --> 00:10:21,236 Speaker 1: more in touch with your culture, do you look for 190 00:10:21,276 --> 00:10:24,236 Speaker 1: the connections between the thing that you love and your culture. 191 00:10:24,436 --> 00:10:29,596 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure. And you know I like hip hop, 192 00:10:29,636 --> 00:10:34,756 Speaker 1: I like punk rock, I like rebellious music, and I 193 00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:38,076 Speaker 1: think that Indigenous people, you know, we've always been in 194 00:10:38,116 --> 00:10:40,676 Speaker 1: a bit of a rebellion. It's like, you know, it's 195 00:10:40,676 --> 00:10:43,956 Speaker 1: like there was always something to fight for to this day, 196 00:10:44,036 --> 00:10:48,036 Speaker 1: and so I connect to that. And you know, the 197 00:10:48,156 --> 00:10:51,356 Speaker 1: show is filled with punk rock and indie rock and 198 00:10:51,436 --> 00:10:54,036 Speaker 1: hip hop, and like the opening as you know, I 199 00:10:54,076 --> 00:10:55,996 Speaker 1: Want to Be Your Dog by the Stooges, and it's like, 200 00:10:56,596 --> 00:10:58,956 Speaker 1: you know, one of my favorite things, definding ways to 201 00:10:59,236 --> 00:11:02,036 Speaker 1: bring all of that back into my community, because I 202 00:11:02,036 --> 00:11:03,756 Speaker 1: mean it's there anyway, but it's like, how do I 203 00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:06,436 Speaker 1: show that and express it? You know, I did not 204 00:11:06,516 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 1: know that that was That song was by the band 205 00:11:09,156 --> 00:11:22,956 Speaker 1: Red Bull. Yeah, come and Get Your Love, incredibly popular song. Yeah, yes, 206 00:11:23,036 --> 00:11:25,516 Speaker 1: it was on I remember as they're singing it, I'm like, 207 00:11:25,796 --> 00:11:28,276 Speaker 1: this is from the Guardians of the Galaxy. What significance 208 00:11:28,316 --> 00:11:30,676 Speaker 1: does have here? And then at the end when you 209 00:11:30,716 --> 00:11:33,236 Speaker 1: show the band playing it, I'm like, oh my goodness, 210 00:11:33,316 --> 00:11:36,356 Speaker 1: this is all of those happy little connections. I imagine 211 00:11:36,356 --> 00:11:39,156 Speaker 1: that that inspires, inspires you to do more work to 212 00:11:39,196 --> 00:11:42,156 Speaker 1: say like see there, look at these connections, understand how 213 00:11:42,156 --> 00:11:43,836 Speaker 1: it all comes together. Oh yeah, I mean that was 214 00:11:43,876 --> 00:11:46,396 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things. It's like kind of reclaiming 215 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:49,276 Speaker 1: red Bone. You know, it's like the world knows who 216 00:11:49,276 --> 00:11:52,156 Speaker 1: they are, but they don't know where they come from 217 00:11:52,196 --> 00:11:53,676 Speaker 1: and who they really are. And it was like, I 218 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:56,116 Speaker 1: want to show that in this unique way as this 219 00:11:56,276 --> 00:11:59,756 Speaker 1: in this episode. A lot of times native people are shown, 220 00:12:00,276 --> 00:12:02,996 Speaker 1: we're only shown in the eighteen hundreds most of the time, 221 00:12:03,076 --> 00:12:05,676 Speaker 1: you know, so trying to show us in a contemporary 222 00:12:05,756 --> 00:12:09,316 Speaker 1: light and how you know, we're just as influenced by 223 00:12:09,396 --> 00:12:11,956 Speaker 1: all these things pop culture like everyone is, you know, 224 00:12:12,076 --> 00:12:17,756 Speaker 1: like from hip hop to movies to um to clothing, 225 00:12:17,756 --> 00:12:20,676 Speaker 1: I mean like style, you know, we're so one of 226 00:12:20,716 --> 00:12:25,676 Speaker 1: our strengths is that we were able to adapt. Like 227 00:12:25,796 --> 00:12:29,316 Speaker 1: for instance, in my community, UM, we have songs that 228 00:12:29,316 --> 00:12:32,036 Speaker 1: are really important and you'll you hear them being sung 229 00:12:32,716 --> 00:12:52,476 Speaker 1: at a funeral scene in the show, and they are hymns. 230 00:12:52,756 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 1: And those hymns were there are a mix of like 231 00:12:56,556 --> 00:13:00,396 Speaker 1: the style of singing was kind of brought here by 232 00:13:00,836 --> 00:13:04,236 Speaker 1: Scottish missionaries and it was called line singing. Well, then 233 00:13:04,276 --> 00:13:08,836 Speaker 1: you had free to African slaves. Next to that, there 234 00:13:08,836 --> 00:13:10,956 Speaker 1: were also a part of our tribe with the Seminal nation, 235 00:13:11,036 --> 00:13:12,916 Speaker 1: but also lived in those in the same area in 236 00:13:12,916 --> 00:13:16,156 Speaker 1: the southeast. And you know, all this style of singing 237 00:13:16,196 --> 00:13:18,756 Speaker 1: emerges and you hear it Enslave spiritual as you also 238 00:13:18,796 --> 00:13:21,236 Speaker 1: hear in these Muscogee Creek and Seminal hymns, and it's 239 00:13:21,236 --> 00:13:23,716 Speaker 1: a style of singing that they call it line singing, 240 00:13:24,356 --> 00:13:26,756 Speaker 1: and you know, it's a way of worshiping. It's a 241 00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:30,636 Speaker 1: way of kind of singing prayer, you know, and all 242 00:13:30,676 --> 00:13:32,436 Speaker 1: of those cultures kind of have a mix of that. 243 00:13:32,516 --> 00:13:35,516 Speaker 1: And I think that that's a beautiful thing. Like that's 244 00:13:35,516 --> 00:13:38,276 Speaker 1: what I love celebrating that, right, Like I love talking 245 00:13:38,316 --> 00:13:41,156 Speaker 1: about how our culture is intersect I think part of 246 00:13:41,156 --> 00:13:43,796 Speaker 1: our survival has been adapting, you know. I think the 247 00:13:43,836 --> 00:13:46,396 Speaker 1: same thing for you know, Black people in this country. 248 00:13:46,436 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 1: It's like part of survival is absorbing things and culture 249 00:13:50,036 --> 00:13:52,836 Speaker 1: and claiming it for ourselves, you know, and like as 250 00:13:52,996 --> 00:13:55,316 Speaker 1: or just like presenting it in a new way, you know. 251 00:13:55,356 --> 00:13:58,236 Speaker 1: And I think that's something beautiful about the intersection of 252 00:13:58,596 --> 00:14:02,316 Speaker 1: cultures us. It's about survival. I think I am I 253 00:14:02,356 --> 00:14:04,076 Speaker 1: am a Black Christian. I've been in the church my 254 00:14:04,116 --> 00:14:06,876 Speaker 1: whole life. My father's an assistant pastor. Like, I'm heavily 255 00:14:06,956 --> 00:14:09,676 Speaker 1: involved in the church. And I do remember that funeral 256 00:14:09,756 --> 00:14:13,756 Speaker 1: scene where they were singing, doing the line singing. I 257 00:14:13,836 --> 00:14:16,276 Speaker 1: was struck by that part. I was like, this is very, 258 00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:19,036 Speaker 1: very familiar. And I think that's one thing about the 259 00:14:19,036 --> 00:14:22,556 Speaker 1: show Reservation Dogs is that it's it's very familiar. As 260 00:14:22,556 --> 00:14:24,836 Speaker 1: soon as it comes on and you realize that the 261 00:14:24,876 --> 00:14:28,836 Speaker 1: main characters are are basically on a quest to get 262 00:14:28,876 --> 00:14:32,156 Speaker 1: out of their little small town. I was like, oh, oh, yeah, 263 00:14:32,156 --> 00:14:34,636 Speaker 1: this is familiar, Like I know this story. Yeah, everybody 264 00:14:34,636 --> 00:14:37,316 Speaker 1: can relate to that, right, yeah, And I like that 265 00:14:37,396 --> 00:14:39,796 Speaker 1: you use that in order to make it familiar. But 266 00:14:39,876 --> 00:14:43,116 Speaker 1: then you you slowly start introducing concepts that I didn't 267 00:14:43,116 --> 00:14:45,116 Speaker 1: know about, which is an episode two. You immediately start 268 00:14:45,156 --> 00:14:49,636 Speaker 1: talking about Indian Health Services and subtly making these little 269 00:14:49,636 --> 00:14:52,716 Speaker 1: statements about it throughout What are you here for? Come 270 00:14:52,756 --> 00:14:57,236 Speaker 1: to a fight bosting my nose? I got some good ones, 271 00:14:57,276 --> 00:15:04,956 Speaker 1: and now tell your mom, no, I didn't. You shouldn't 272 00:15:04,956 --> 00:15:09,516 Speaker 1: either patient doctor protocol or whatever it's called. Tell me 273 00:15:09,516 --> 00:15:12,396 Speaker 1: a little bit about what your intentions were by teasing 274 00:15:12,396 --> 00:15:15,876 Speaker 1: out the lessons that that me is not non indigenous 275 00:15:15,916 --> 00:15:19,636 Speaker 1: person would learn from watching a show like this. We 276 00:15:19,716 --> 00:15:23,876 Speaker 1: all know what bad health care is, right, Like, my 277 00:15:23,916 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 1: whole goal is to be very specific show this culture, 278 00:15:30,236 --> 00:15:33,796 Speaker 1: be very specific about the nuance and the differences and 279 00:15:33,836 --> 00:15:36,636 Speaker 1: the little things that details that make it real. But 280 00:15:37,076 --> 00:15:42,676 Speaker 1: it all has an undercurrent of your universality. And I 281 00:15:42,716 --> 00:15:46,436 Speaker 1: think that those two, the combination of those two things 282 00:15:46,476 --> 00:15:48,636 Speaker 1: are what make people want to come back and watch 283 00:15:48,676 --> 00:15:50,876 Speaker 1: the show, because I think when we're like young and 284 00:15:50,876 --> 00:15:53,636 Speaker 1: we're activists and we're you know, in our early twenties, 285 00:15:53,636 --> 00:15:55,756 Speaker 1: we want to yell, you know, we want like a 286 00:15:55,796 --> 00:15:59,076 Speaker 1: bullhorn to yell. But you realize people don't listen when 287 00:15:59,076 --> 00:16:04,436 Speaker 1: you yell, and if you want people to hear, you 288 00:16:04,556 --> 00:16:07,556 Speaker 1: have to find the right way to deliver it to them, 289 00:16:08,196 --> 00:16:12,396 Speaker 1: like making a podcast, right, making a podcast, making a show, 290 00:16:12,436 --> 00:16:15,436 Speaker 1: but also making a balance of like where I don't 291 00:16:15,516 --> 00:16:19,876 Speaker 1: feel like I'm you don't feel like you're you're getting 292 00:16:19,916 --> 00:16:24,676 Speaker 1: a lecture, You're just getting little tastes of lessons of 293 00:16:24,916 --> 00:16:28,996 Speaker 1: healthcare disparities in America and Indigenous communities through a really 294 00:16:29,036 --> 00:16:32,196 Speaker 1: funny episode that all takes place at the Indian Clinic, 295 00:16:32,276 --> 00:16:34,196 Speaker 1: you know, where Bobby Lee is a doctor and like 296 00:16:34,276 --> 00:16:36,356 Speaker 1: all of these things. Yeah, So I think it's like 297 00:16:36,396 --> 00:16:37,996 Speaker 1: something that I've been this a needle I've been trying 298 00:16:37,996 --> 00:16:41,196 Speaker 1: to threat through from a whole career. Most people that 299 00:16:41,236 --> 00:16:43,916 Speaker 1: have an opportunity, especially when it comes to underserved communities 300 00:16:44,156 --> 00:16:47,476 Speaker 1: and minority groups that are underrepresented, especially in how in 301 00:16:47,516 --> 00:16:49,836 Speaker 1: TV and film, you don't necessarily know if you're going 302 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:52,076 Speaker 1: to get another chance at this, So you kind of 303 00:16:52,076 --> 00:16:54,236 Speaker 1: just have to, you know, set your path straight and 304 00:16:54,716 --> 00:16:57,636 Speaker 1: whatever happens happens. But you guys get a season two, 305 00:16:58,476 --> 00:16:59,996 Speaker 1: Do you have a plan for us to have a 306 00:16:59,996 --> 00:17:03,396 Speaker 1: long term stay with reservation dogs or oh yeah, yeah. 307 00:17:03,436 --> 00:17:07,236 Speaker 1: My friend Taikytt helped open the door for me and 308 00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:08,996 Speaker 1: then he was like all right, you know, there you go. 309 00:17:09,356 --> 00:17:13,716 Speaker 1: And I was like I have to swing for the fences, 310 00:17:13,716 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna not doubt myself. You know, we all 311 00:17:17,956 --> 00:17:22,156 Speaker 1: have that in our heads where where that imposter syndrome 312 00:17:22,236 --> 00:17:24,436 Speaker 1: like should I be here? Like am I supposed to 313 00:17:24,476 --> 00:17:27,356 Speaker 1: be here? Like do I deserve this? I mean, you 314 00:17:27,396 --> 00:17:31,156 Speaker 1: know that's something I've always dealt with and you know, 315 00:17:31,236 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 1: and I've always as a as a Native person minority. 316 00:17:33,916 --> 00:17:37,316 Speaker 1: I've always fought any sort of I don't hand me 317 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:40,916 Speaker 1: anything like, and I've never gotten manned at something that 318 00:17:40,996 --> 00:17:43,596 Speaker 1: I felt was racist. I mean, I've been told so 319 00:17:43,596 --> 00:17:46,556 Speaker 1: many times like this is too native, we can't fund this, 320 00:17:46,676 --> 00:17:49,156 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't like Native films, don't sell 321 00:17:49,236 --> 00:17:51,476 Speaker 1: or anything. I never let that get me, man, it 322 00:17:51,596 --> 00:17:55,676 Speaker 1: just fueled me. I almost wanted the hardest path because 323 00:17:55,756 --> 00:17:57,516 Speaker 1: it's in. It was in my head from a young age. 324 00:17:57,556 --> 00:18:00,036 Speaker 1: My mom, I remember, we would get this. My tribe 325 00:18:00,036 --> 00:18:03,316 Speaker 1: would give us a clothing voucher before school started, two 326 00:18:03,396 --> 00:18:05,116 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty bucks to go to the mall and 327 00:18:05,156 --> 00:18:08,756 Speaker 1: get yourself some clothing. And because it's tribal money, it's 328 00:18:08,916 --> 00:18:12,436 Speaker 1: not untaxable. But you know, the people at Dillards weren't 329 00:18:12,516 --> 00:18:15,796 Speaker 1: used to that, and my mom would just battle them 330 00:18:15,796 --> 00:18:18,996 Speaker 1: and be like, no, it's non taxable. And if they 331 00:18:19,036 --> 00:18:20,996 Speaker 1: made it sound like it was a handout anyway, my 332 00:18:21,036 --> 00:18:22,596 Speaker 1: mom would be like, this is not a handout. This 333 00:18:22,716 --> 00:18:26,596 Speaker 1: is inheritance from our trial, you know. And so I 334 00:18:26,636 --> 00:18:30,036 Speaker 1: always almost like subconsciously one of the harder, like like, yeah, 335 00:18:30,236 --> 00:18:33,116 Speaker 1: be racist, Like I hope you don't understand what Native 336 00:18:33,116 --> 00:18:35,596 Speaker 1: stories are because someday I'm gonna show you, you know. 337 00:18:35,996 --> 00:18:38,636 Speaker 1: And I made all low budget films until this point. 338 00:18:38,796 --> 00:18:41,836 Speaker 1: I mean, like you could have only made two episodes 339 00:18:41,876 --> 00:18:44,476 Speaker 1: of Reservation Dogs with the budget of most of my 340 00:18:44,516 --> 00:18:46,996 Speaker 1: feature films, you know. So when I got here, I 341 00:18:46,996 --> 00:18:48,676 Speaker 1: was like, all right, I fought to be here. I 342 00:18:48,716 --> 00:18:50,956 Speaker 1: got nothing to lose. I'm gonna swing for the fences 343 00:18:50,996 --> 00:18:53,676 Speaker 1: and see what happens. And I never doubted myself and 344 00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:55,356 Speaker 1: I just went for it. And I think that that 345 00:18:55,476 --> 00:19:00,396 Speaker 1: was key to having a successful show because I wasn't 346 00:19:00,436 --> 00:19:03,636 Speaker 1: second guessing myself. I wasn't editing myself. I was just 347 00:19:03,716 --> 00:19:14,636 Speaker 1: going for it. With the success that you're having with 348 00:19:14,676 --> 00:19:17,716 Speaker 1: the show, how do you consider opening the door for 349 00:19:17,876 --> 00:19:21,076 Speaker 1: other Native creators that maybe want to come after you? 350 00:19:21,116 --> 00:19:22,556 Speaker 1: Do you have a plan for to have Do you 351 00:19:22,596 --> 00:19:24,716 Speaker 1: feel a responsibility to do that right? And if so, 352 00:19:25,356 --> 00:19:26,916 Speaker 1: plan for that? I mean definitely. I mean, like I 353 00:19:26,916 --> 00:19:29,676 Speaker 1: don't have the show without Taykott, you know, like like 354 00:19:30,196 --> 00:19:32,836 Speaker 1: um him helping a friend down, and I've done the same. 355 00:19:32,876 --> 00:19:37,636 Speaker 1: I mean, like every writer on the show, they're all Indigenous, 356 00:19:37,676 --> 00:19:40,556 Speaker 1: and they're all friends. All of the directors were friends 357 00:19:40,556 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 1: of mine that I wanted to give you know, their 358 00:19:43,236 --> 00:19:45,636 Speaker 1: first TV shot or and one of them a directs 359 00:19:45,716 --> 00:19:47,436 Speaker 1: TV already, but two others like it was their first 360 00:19:47,476 --> 00:19:50,716 Speaker 1: time directing TV. UM doing the same thing for the 361 00:19:50,756 --> 00:19:53,916 Speaker 1: next season. UM. And then also I have no overall 362 00:19:53,956 --> 00:19:56,236 Speaker 1: deal at ects now and part of that is me 363 00:19:56,436 --> 00:20:01,196 Speaker 1: bringing okay, bringing in other folks. Yeah, so like that's honestly, 364 00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:03,796 Speaker 1: like I think my favorite thing about what's happened is 365 00:20:03,836 --> 00:20:06,596 Speaker 1: like I now get to help people with their projects. 366 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:10,076 Speaker 1: And because I mean, for me, like how I always 367 00:20:10,076 --> 00:20:12,276 Speaker 1: made my films and also how I made Reservation Dogs 368 00:20:12,356 --> 00:20:14,596 Speaker 1: was it was not like a top down thing, like 369 00:20:14,636 --> 00:20:18,516 Speaker 1: I don't like the hierarchy of Hollywood and how they 370 00:20:18,596 --> 00:20:21,396 Speaker 1: usually do it. Like for me, it's just like you 371 00:20:21,476 --> 00:20:28,116 Speaker 1: can't say that old Mike Sterling getting tracked. But like 372 00:20:28,396 --> 00:20:30,396 Speaker 1: you know, I love the community aspect of it, Like 373 00:20:30,436 --> 00:20:33,636 Speaker 1: I love like just how Reservation Dogs is kind of 374 00:20:33,636 --> 00:20:35,916 Speaker 1: about a community. That's how I like making this stuff. 375 00:20:36,156 --> 00:20:38,476 Speaker 1: So with being with bringing in a lot more and 376 00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:41,636 Speaker 1: working with other Native creators, you know, we're seeing kind 377 00:20:41,636 --> 00:20:44,796 Speaker 1: of like an inflection point right now where the Native 378 00:20:44,836 --> 00:20:48,036 Speaker 1: community is receiving a lot of artistic attention. These stories 379 00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:51,476 Speaker 1: and perspectives have always been important, but what do you 380 00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:53,956 Speaker 1: think makes them more important to tell in this moment. 381 00:20:54,876 --> 00:20:59,436 Speaker 1: Like with African American cinema and TV, you know, you 382 00:20:59,516 --> 00:21:01,876 Speaker 1: had these moments like Boys in the Hood and things 383 00:21:01,916 --> 00:21:05,636 Speaker 1: like that where it's like you're reflecting on your communities. 384 00:21:05,676 --> 00:21:07,316 Speaker 1: I mean, like one of my biggest influences on the 385 00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:11,476 Speaker 1: show was was Friday. Oh that's a classic ice cube 386 00:21:11,556 --> 00:21:14,756 Speaker 1: Chris Tucker, nineteen ninety five. I love that movie. By 387 00:21:14,756 --> 00:21:17,636 Speaker 1: all accounts, that neighborhood is supposed to be the ghetto 388 00:21:17,716 --> 00:21:22,196 Speaker 1: and scary and dangerous, but it's you know, in Friday, 389 00:21:22,236 --> 00:21:24,836 Speaker 1: it's like funny, Like it's not thriving, but it's like 390 00:21:24,836 --> 00:21:27,756 Speaker 1: a beautiful you know, it's a celebration. And there might 391 00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:30,716 Speaker 1: be one house that's like an asshole lives in, but 392 00:21:30,756 --> 00:21:32,956 Speaker 1: then the next one was like manicured and they're funny 393 00:21:32,996 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 1: and whatever. You know, It's like, that's what I want 394 00:21:34,436 --> 00:21:38,076 Speaker 1: to do. Like literally, whenever I was designing the kind 395 00:21:38,116 --> 00:21:40,956 Speaker 1: of the neighborhood of the of the reservation where they live, 396 00:21:42,076 --> 00:21:45,836 Speaker 1: we looked at Friday, and we use more pastel colors 397 00:21:45,836 --> 00:21:48,636 Speaker 1: and painted the houses and you know, like I think 398 00:21:48,676 --> 00:21:52,476 Speaker 1: people's first inclination when I think of reservation is to 399 00:21:52,596 --> 00:21:54,716 Speaker 1: make everything trashy, you know, because that's what we've seen 400 00:21:54,716 --> 00:21:57,156 Speaker 1: in the documentaries. I was like, no, Like there might 401 00:21:57,196 --> 00:21:58,956 Speaker 1: be one house that has like a card in the 402 00:21:59,036 --> 00:22:00,716 Speaker 1: yard or whatever, but then the neighbor's house is going 403 00:22:00,796 --> 00:22:03,196 Speaker 1: to be manicured and there's gonna be flowers and stuff, 404 00:22:03,236 --> 00:22:06,636 Speaker 1: you know, Like that's that's we're people, you know, We're 405 00:22:06,636 --> 00:22:09,236 Speaker 1: in this moment that I see that I saw. I 406 00:22:09,276 --> 00:22:12,196 Speaker 1: think with African American cinema, like Friday and all of 407 00:22:12,236 --> 00:22:13,756 Speaker 1: that were like you had boys in the hood, You're 408 00:22:13,756 --> 00:22:16,156 Speaker 1: talking about problems within our community and everything. And then 409 00:22:16,516 --> 00:22:18,116 Speaker 1: and then you move into Friday and it's like, oh, 410 00:22:18,116 --> 00:22:20,196 Speaker 1: but this is a celebration. But also we're still talking 411 00:22:20,236 --> 00:22:22,276 Speaker 1: about like our own issues, you know, like our own 412 00:22:22,316 --> 00:22:25,356 Speaker 1: issues in our community, and we're talking about suicide and 413 00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:28,436 Speaker 1: our own issues that we're facing. And it's not about 414 00:22:28,476 --> 00:22:31,356 Speaker 1: how do white people save us, It's about how do 415 00:22:32,116 --> 00:22:35,356 Speaker 1: we handle these problems ourselves? Like how do we address them? 416 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:37,316 Speaker 1: What is unique about the way that we address them? 417 00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:41,076 Speaker 1: And so I see us in this infancy in our 418 00:22:41,116 --> 00:22:45,036 Speaker 1: storytelling and where we're at and where we can go 419 00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:50,436 Speaker 1: is limitless from every angle. If our listeners want to 420 00:22:50,556 --> 00:22:53,876 Speaker 1: get involved in help seeing more visibility within Native American 421 00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:58,596 Speaker 1: arts and film communities, what can they do. Illuminative is 422 00:22:58,596 --> 00:23:03,436 Speaker 1: a really good organization that kind of covers everything from 423 00:23:03,596 --> 00:23:07,796 Speaker 1: education to entertainment to art. I mean like they really 424 00:23:07,836 --> 00:23:10,556 Speaker 1: cover a lot. And I think that that is My 425 00:23:10,556 --> 00:23:12,676 Speaker 1: friend Crystal elcoh Hawk runs that and I think that 426 00:23:13,236 --> 00:23:15,196 Speaker 1: I don't know that they're just growing and they're building, 427 00:23:15,196 --> 00:23:19,116 Speaker 1: and they've really done so much in helping us be 428 00:23:19,196 --> 00:23:23,916 Speaker 1: visible and also celebrating what's happening in Indian country. You know, 429 00:23:23,996 --> 00:23:27,076 Speaker 1: follow him on Instagram Illuminative and they really give you 430 00:23:27,116 --> 00:23:29,236 Speaker 1: a good broad sense of where you can go and 431 00:23:29,596 --> 00:23:34,196 Speaker 1: who's all involved in the community. Thank you so much 432 00:23:34,196 --> 00:23:42,756 Speaker 1: for being with the Sterlings. Has been incredible. Thank you. Sterlin. 433 00:23:42,836 --> 00:23:46,196 Speaker 1: Hard Joe is the filmmaker, creator, and showrunner of Reservation Dogs, 434 00:23:46,476 --> 00:23:49,396 Speaker 1: and he's directed three future films, including Four Sheets to 435 00:23:49,396 --> 00:23:54,076 Speaker 1: the Wind, Barking Water, and Mecco, and two documentaries This 436 00:23:54,156 --> 00:23:57,276 Speaker 1: May Be the Last Time and Love and Fury. Season 437 00:23:57,276 --> 00:24:00,076 Speaker 1: two of Reservation Dogs is coming later in twenty twenty two. 438 00:24:00,356 --> 00:24:02,116 Speaker 1: You can find a link to his work and also 439 00:24:02,236 --> 00:24:06,756 Speaker 1: Illuminative in our show notes. Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, 440 00:24:07,116 --> 00:24:11,636 Speaker 1: Research by David Jack, book by Lisa Dunn. Editorial support 441 00:24:11,716 --> 00:24:15,516 Speaker 1: from Keishell Williams. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and 442 00:24:15,596 --> 00:24:19,476 Speaker 1: our Executive producer is mio Lebelle. I'm Ronald Young Junior. 443 00:24:20,356 --> 00:24:21,116 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.