WEBVTT - Ep. 292: Render - Black Patch and Black Panthers 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.120 My name is Clay Nukleman. 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.400 This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.720 the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:28.240 and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:34.400 presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.919 and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:39.280 the place as we explore. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.760 Well, I've been looking forward to this render for a while. 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.320 We kind of got off schedule we did the first 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.160 night Rider Tobacco War episode. Now we usually have a 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.440 render where we talk about it like immediately, but we 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.920 kind of had a fill in render with Rich Frohning. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.920 But this works out perfect. Never heard of him, never 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.720 heard of the Fittest man in the world, which frowning 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.080 the uh so we had we had. We've now played 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.199 these two night Rider Tobacco War episodes. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:17.759 So that's what we're here to talk about. 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.520 And we have a pretty good, pretty good guest list 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:26.679 here a varied assortment of guests. Yes, we got my dad, Gary, Bilievernukom, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.880 who I have some I have someone sent you a gift. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.920 I'm gonna go ahead money, I'm gonna go ahead money, 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.600 I'm gonna go ahead and introduce everybody. Uh, then I 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:42.800 have Jeff Gardner. Now you're not from Kentucky, but I 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:43.600 am from Kentucky. 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.320 You are from currently don't live in Kentucky, correct, currently 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:48.240 in Oklahoma. 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:53.600 But Jeff, Jeff did something that's very rare in the 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:58.600 Bear Grease world is that he basically like hand delivered 0:01:58.800 --> 0:01:59.880 this podcast to us. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:01.200 For real. I'm not kidding. 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.400 People all the time suggest stuff, which I love, I mean, 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.960 keep them coming. A lot of times the suggestions are 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.120 about stories that maybe people don't have the full grasp 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.640 on and maybe it's a great idea. It's not someone's 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.640 fault if they send me an incomplete. But when somebody goes, 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.880 this is a great story, here's the book about it. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.760 I know the author, here's his number. Also know a 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.239 secondary guest that you could interview about. 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:30.359 I think this. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.120 Would happen to be my wife's grandpa, right, I mean, 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.440 he just like hand delivered the whole thing. And then 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.840 so we ordered the book and we were just like, yeah, 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.480 this is great. And so anyway, thanks Jeff. 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.120 Hey happy to help. A big fan. Love what you 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.320 guys do. And like I said, you know, I'm sure 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.280 we'll get into it. But I read the story and 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.160 was like, I literally was sitting there in my wife's 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.720 grandfather's house and I went, man, I just I bet 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:59.600 you could make a killing with a podcast of this. 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.320 But then I was like, you know, I would love 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.680 to hear somebody do this. And then it just clicked. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:07.959 I was like, this is exactly what these guys do. Yeah, 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.160 and I was able to find a you know, email 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:12.360 for you and get it to your. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:12.960 Worked out here we are. 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:18.519 So your your grandfather is doctor Lloyd Murdoch, Is that correct? 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.919 So my wife's grandfather, Yeah, he wife, you know, uh 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.000 selfishly consider him my grandfather. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.240 He's been like grandfather to me. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.480 So I may refer to him that, and you may 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.440 hear us refer to him as Bubby because that's what 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.840 the rest of the world calls him outside. 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.960 Of So he was he was on the first episode, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:40.200 and he's essentially as. 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.880 Agronomus and was a tobacco expert. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.160 So he was the one real soft spoken guy that 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.080 spoke on the first episode. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.200 So that that was great. 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.400 And then so your brother in law, So you are 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.120 married to sisters whose grandfather married my sister. 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:57.119 I'm just not gonna. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.280 Yeah, family is Drew's grandfather. 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.280 He is my grandfather, he's your grandfather. We're from Kentucky. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.320 It's family, get messy. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.760 I read the motto of Kentucky was fifteen million people, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.360 fifteen last names. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.000 Wow. Wow, I like it. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.240 I like it anytime we can jab somebody else. 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.400 Exactly, yeah, exactly. You know we're at in Kentucky. Are 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:24.000 you all from? 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:24.560 So? 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.920 I was actually uh born in Princeton, where one of 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.640 the Reds happened, and where my that's where my. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.920 The Vatican of the Night Ridership. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.000 Ye, my U and my grandparents still live there. It's 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.839 where Josh came down and did the interviews with my grandfather. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.799 In one county over was where Bill Conningham was. And 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.359 but now I've since shifted. I'm in Lexington, Kentucky. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:51.000 Now, okay, okay, awesome man. Well I'm from Louisville, born 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:51.800 and raised in Louisville. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:56.080 Are both y'all? So both y'all are Louisville fans. We are, yes, okay. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.800 Yes, we're all sad to see Cali party go. It 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.640 didn't make any different, man. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.520 Yeah, I mean I I kind of wish he was 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:11.200 still there because they'd be. 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:10.159 Loves Mark. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.080 But we are actually two cardinals in a family of wildcats. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.560 So and now I got a little one of my 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.480 own that it's it's tough, clay Man. They're they're wearing 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.159 him out, they're bringing them over to their side. But 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.640 he loves he loves his So I got a feeling, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.480 you know, the more we start running around together, he'll 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.000 be all right, he'll yeah yeah. 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.240 Well to finish out introductions, this is my neighbor friend, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.760 the best chicken farmer that I know, Charles Spencer known 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.960 as Spence, and uh man, I just do you mind 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.400 picking up your t jar. I have a deep respect 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.440 for a man to drink tea out of a pickle 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:52.599 jar Man, this. 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.599 Is uh actually that Spence. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.000 Spence comes to our church every week with a different 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.560 jar showing out everybody. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.159 I get called out. This is like you know when 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.400 you talked about Honore Farmers on this podcast. You call 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.479 a farmer out, he's just gonna dig in right. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.320 Well, it's funny because everybody brings water bottles. Now, this 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.360 generation is obsessed with hydration. I mean back when I 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:22.440 was a kid and Dad you'd be the same. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.040 I mean we watered like cattle, like once a day. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:26.640 You know. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.679 And uh, and now everybody has like huge water bottles, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.479 Stanley cub this is acceptable in my book, like just 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.760 like a like a jar, you know, rather than a 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.360 big water bottle or something. 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.360 So he tastes better out of a jar. But I agree. 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.800 Spence is a farmer and he uh, he's got he 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.240 kind of had some insight into the the farm side 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.200 of it. So wanted to have Spence here. But what 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.440 I haven't told you, if you haven't figured it out already, 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.679 is that, uh, there's a federal officer amongst us. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.800 Jeff works for the FBI. What what I do that 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.960 Dad wouldn't have come if I Gary, what's your hiding? Gary? 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.040 I drove from up here in thirty five minutes, so 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.480 outside of my jurisdiction I can do about that. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.200 No, And I know we don't have to go into 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:19.760 detail about it, but that's interesting. 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:21.239 How long you worked for the FBI. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.240 It'd be five years this summer. Okay, yeah, so I'm 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.920 I'm fairly new, you know, to the career as a whole. 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.760 But it's been to call you kid Utah, Utah, give 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:34.520 me to Kentucky. 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:35.320 That's right now. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.760 But yeah, about five years and and like I said's 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.000 how we ended up out in Oklahoma? 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.880 Were you in law enforcement before? Like, what's the what's 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.120 your career path? Tell you what, Clay, It's been an 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:51.440 interesting ride. So, you know, me and Drew met in college. 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.400 We both played college baseball at at University Louisville, and 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.920 then uh graduated there, kicked around the minor leagues for 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:02.440 a little bit, and then and literally was finishing playing, 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.680 was getting married and to his sister and let me next. 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.920 So I studied criminal justice in college, and then in 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:16.160 twenty seventeen, I was just gotten engaged to Drew's sister, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:22.000 Chelsea and needed something to say at Thanksgiving other than 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.440 I was going to go play independent league baseball again 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:30.120 for you know, eleven hundred bucks a month for four months, okay, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.640 and so and so, you know, I was always interested 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.760 in law enforcement. My dad was a police officer, my 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.719 mom's dad was a police officer, and it's always. 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.320 Been big in my family. So I looked into it. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.960 My dad had always mentioned, you know, trying to go 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.240 the federal route, and so I started looking some of 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.440 that up on USA jobs and I was like, hey, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.600 you can just apply for the FBI. I checked this out. 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:54.079 So I kind of just did it on a whim 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:58.080 and made it through the first couple of steps and 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.160 then got denied, didn't get in. But the more I 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:02.600 looked at it, thought, man, I think this is what 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.640 I actually want to do. So I had to wait 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.320 a year, Like I said, I finished playing baseball one 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:13.679 more year, came back home, got into uh believe it 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.480 or not, like trying to sell advertisements and tickets for 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.920 a like minor league wrestling outfit. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:26.320 So if you look at this, watch Nacho Lebra for 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:27.520 a birthday the other day. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.360 Okay, So if you go on Netflix and you watch 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.880 there's a documentary called like Wrestlers or something or wrestling, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.640 and it's a documentary where they follow Ohio Valley wrestling. Well, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.600 a buddy of mine who had told me whenever I 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.199 was done playing, you know, he'd offered me a job 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.240 in medical sales, which is what he did, and I 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.200 from my locker of my last game, I sent him 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.240 a text and said, hey, dude, just finished up. I'm 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.160 getting married in a month. I need a job, Like, 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.560 is that still you still open? He said, yeah, come 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.440 see me on Monday. So I did, and I'm expected 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.080 like all right, we're gonna start talking about this whole 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:02.960 medical sales thing. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.120 Well, now he says, I got a I got a 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:05.680 job for you. 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.360 He says, I just bought this minor league wrestling you 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.000 ever heard of? It was like, if you follow wrestling, 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:14.920 it's it's huge because like a lot of the greats 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.720 from the old days came up through this Ohio yeah, 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.200 Ohio Valley wrestling. And so it's looking at it on 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.800 on Netflix is a pretty interesting documentary. You could see 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.840 a little insight to to that world. But I did 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.480 that for a few months and then he finally let 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:30.320 me in on the medical sales side. And so I 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.880 was in and out of spine surgeries for about a 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.079 year and a half and then had reapplied to the 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.240 bureau and and ended up getting in. Okay, so it's 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.160 been a wild ride. Wow, here I am, Here, I am. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.960 Now you're a professional podcast scout here. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:47.760 It's not far from wrestling. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.960 I just know if you have anything else you Well, 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.360 that's interesting, very interesting. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.360 So Dad, a guy sent this to you. We have 0:10:59.440 --> 0:10:59.840 his name. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.960 We get that little letter right there, the little handwritten letter. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:04.800 It's torn in half. Not don't know why. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.080 Get the top part. So Yeah. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:13.240 Jeff Dwyer out of Washington sent this to Gary Believer 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.559 nukelem Wow and uh, man, it's so old that it 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.960 has a plug that's like a quarter inch and has 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:20.880 two little plugs. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.840 But it actually it used to work. You may get 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.640 shocked it. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:29.760 It's disco lamp. 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:37.120 It pretty much works. Unfortunately it was broken in transit. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:38.000 It cracked. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.720 He did a great job of packing it. But uh, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.679 do you mind if we keep this here? Though you can, 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:44.560 do you mind? 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.000 It's it's a lamp, but it's also like an ashtray, yeah, 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.559 or an ashtray, or like a plan like put your 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.160 bed in there, you put your pocket knife and your 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:58.040 wall in there at night. 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.280 Well, this is a throwback to the to the Black Panther. 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.160 The first episode of Bear Grease. We did a We 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.560 did an episode called the Myth of the Southern Mountain Lion, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:12.959 and at the end of it we talked about black 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.679 panthers and not a week goes by. I'm without exaggeration, 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.960 but someone doesn't send me something online about black panthers 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.559 because dad believes in them. Yeah, just spurning the science. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:30.720 So anyway, you got a new lamp. I appreciate it. 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.240 It looks like a work on This is just terrible. 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.840 I mean it hardly even looks like a panther, but 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.720 you can see his tail curled right here. I mean, 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.640 like the person that made that, I mean, I don't know, 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:50.480 but it's it's wonderful. So congratulations, than Jeff stylized, Yeah, 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:51.439 thank you, Jeff. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.040 That was That's pretty awesome. And I never had a 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.880 gift that I would treasure more. 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:57.320 I don't think he wrote in. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.040 He wrote in and sent me a picture of it 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.600 and said, I'd like to say this to Gary Believernewkam 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:02.880 And I said, I got an. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.320 Address, will take it. And I had my believer head 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:08.760 in the truck and I forgot. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.560 To put it on. Oh man, So anyway, that's very nice. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:17.680 Well, uh, the night Rider or Tobacco War of Tennessee 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.480 and Kentucky farinating. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:20.040 So sorry. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.200 So would y'all have grown up knowing about this story. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.839 I didn't learn about it until, you know, I married 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.320 into the family. I think my first trip to Princeton 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.080 was actually during the black Patch Festival. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.040 Yeah, first time going down there. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.760 So Princeton still holds the black Patch Festival every fall 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.960 and around the time that their smoke, fire and tobacco, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.840 and uh, I went to that festival ever since. 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.840 I was really what do they do there? 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.120 Oh, it's just they shut down main street. They have 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.760 all kinds of little tints and things set up selling stuff. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.320 I remember when I was super young, we would always 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.520 do like a frisbee contest where accuracy distance and stuff 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.280 like that, So I was always geared up for that. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.480 They do pancake breakfast and serve the town. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.200 How big is Princeton, Kentucky? 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.520 Probably four or five thousand people maybe something like that. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:15.120 Yeah, when you can you smell the dark fire tobacco, 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.120 when it's smell like hickory smoker, does it smell like 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:18.880 tobacco smoke? 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.200 It's very very unique. I will say that you get 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.800 the smell of hickory, you know, much like you you know, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.480 if you throw something in the smoker and put put 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.600 hickory chips in it. It's a lot like that kind 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.640 of smell. But it does have a have a distinct smell. 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.440 Because I get I mean, the tobacco is not burning. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.360 No, no, it's not. It's the woods are the wood 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.520 on the bottom of the of the floor of the 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.920 barn are covered with sawdust and it's just that smoke 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:46.720 that rises up. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.040 And did you have family that grew tobacco? 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.760 Nope, nope, no, No, I don't have any. We don't 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.040 have any other than Western Oklahoma. We don't have any 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:55.040 farmers out in our family. 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:55.760 Yeah. 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.520 I went to basic with the guy that their family 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.560 grew tobac I was thinking about it, and I'm not 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.360 sure it just in Kentucky, isn't it. A big old 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.040 dude name wrecked in He'd talk about going in the 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.120 tobacco patch and if it was wet, like they'd get 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.080 sick like when they worked it. I guess because the nicotine. 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.560 So anyway, oh really it was like brushing up against them. Yeah, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.880 I guess just working in the You can't go in 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.000 there when it's wet. But I just randomly remember that 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.680 the other day listening to this m M. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.360 That's my interesting It used to be all over too, 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.000 I mean even in there. I can recall I grew. 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.400 Up in basically in the city in Louisville, and so 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.520 there would be times where you'd drive through and you'd 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:42.640 see patches of open land, you know, within city limits, 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.880 where people were growing to back it in and. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.440 It just in your lifetime. Absolutely. Yeah. 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.600 I remember in fourth grade it was still like that's 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.600 the grade in Kentucky where you learn all about Kentucky 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.560 history and all that. And I remember learning that that 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.160 was like the number one cash crop. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.040 Huh back then, I doubt it is now. I'm sure 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.280 it's no is it? So? 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.800 I mean it's always been huge, you know, It's Kentucky's 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:10.320 kind of funny. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.640 We were just known for man's vices like tobacco, bourbon, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.840 and horse racing. You know, if you want to, if 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.120 you want to, you know, get drunk, have a cigarette, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:23.280 and horses. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:25.479 It is a one stop. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.720 Shot man I started. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.040 You know, I don't think they grew a lot of 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.000 tobacco here in the Ozarks. It's certainly I think it 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.680 was grown at times, but this was not known for that. 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.800 I really started learning about tobacco when I started going 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.280 to East Tennessee and uh running around with Roy Clark 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.520 whose gouy that Roy's still alives in the seventies, and uh, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.160 they they had tobacco allotments. They just sold their tobacco allotments, 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.120 as I understand it, in the last twenty years. But 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.160 but you know, that's that's the way it went that, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:03.920 I don't know if you knew it. We didn't really 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.640 get into the modern tobacco stuff. But back in the day, 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.240 just people grew it and there wasn't a lot of regulation. 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.280 But after after about the time of the Tobacco Wars, 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.919 and a lot of federal regulation came in on the 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:20.760 tobacco market and they started doing allotments for tobacco and 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:25.240 and basically the government would say, like, you can grow 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.639 five acres or tobacco period every year, but you could 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.679 sell your allotment to a farmer. And so if you 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.280 didn't want to grow it, is that am I? 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.040 Is this right? Do y'all Do y'all know some of 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:36.560 that stuff? 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.280 Yeah, so my grandfather knows obviously a little bit more 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.960 about the allotment. But but from what I've gathered, that's 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:43.520 that sounds pretty accurate. 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:43.800 Yeah. 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.399 Yeah, And so Roy Clark grew up. And now they 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.760 call it backer. I'm sure that's I can't believe I 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.280 went through this whole episode without saying backer, But that's 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.200 the way they say it in East Tennessee. Like, yeah, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:56.840 they're not joking or trying to be cute. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:01.040 It's just it's backerbacker or tobacco, tobacco, tobacco. 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:02.560 Bill Comingham said it several times. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.480 Tobacco, tobacco, yeah, tobacco. Yeah. 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.159 But uh but you know Roy was in his lifetime 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.680 plowing with a with a horse like hand, plowing tobacco. 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.000 But it was such a convenient crop because you could 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.159 grow a small acreage and make that much money. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.440 Yeah, which was astonishing. I did. 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.080 We had a couple of corrections on this episode, and 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:30.240 one of them there was a modern tobacco farmer that 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:35.960 told me, actually, the the the yield ton per acre 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.399 yield that we said was way off. We said it 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.879 was four thousand pounds per acre, and he said even 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.800 today in like the best case. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.680 Scenario, you don't get that much. He said, you get 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:49.440 like two thousand. 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.480 So anyway, but point bing, you could grow a small 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.840 amount of the of tobacco and it just had this 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.840 enormous value. And I mean when you start doing the 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.240 and you see that, you could almost like if you 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:08.120 were just a subsistence guy making well from what Joe 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.080 Scott said twenty five cents a day to a dollar 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.680 a day, Doctor Murdoch said, you can make a dollar 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.240 a day. Joe Scott was talking about making twenty five 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:17.720 cents a day. 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:18.600 Did y'all hear that? 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.720 And so essentially you're making that range of money for 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:28.359 just an uneducated labor and then you could like double 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.000 your income by having three or four acres or tobacco. Yeah, 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.080 and you just you kind of get the sense of 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:35.960 how important that would be. 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:40.160 Yeah, you know, and moving from subsistence to like where 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.720 you can actually buy things. Yeah, that's one of the 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.640 problems on a fund is you can produce a lot, 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.399 but converting it into cash is a big deal, you know. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.240 And I don't know that was just I understand why 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.000 where they're coming from, you know, like just to have 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.080 something you can grow and just there's a ready set market. 0:19:59.000 --> 0:19:59.200 Man. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.840 It just that kind of thing is extremely rare. An egg, yeah, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.919 you know, so, especially on that small of a acreage. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.800 It's just I understand, like a lot of white people 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.560 got upset and blood and all that stuff. You know, 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:18.080 Like it really was kind of a unique situation. Yeah, 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.560 compared to like cotton or something else where, you know, 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.840 by that you need so much land to do it 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.480 and the labor. You know, a small family could, like 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.840 you said, double their income and he gave all the 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.399 like put a calico dress for Easter and you have 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.760 shoes and yeah in that, Like, I don't know, it's 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:35.520