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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman.

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Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called

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Speaker 2: the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

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Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,

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Speaker 2: presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting

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Speaker 2: and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as

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Speaker 2: the place as we explore.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've been looking forward to this render for a while.

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Speaker 3: We kind of got off schedule we did the first

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Speaker 3: night Rider Tobacco War episode. Now we usually have a

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Speaker 3: render where we talk about it like immediately, but we

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Speaker 3: kind of had a fill in render with Rich Frohning.

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Speaker 3: But this works out perfect. Never heard of him, never

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Speaker 3: heard of the Fittest man in the world, which frowning

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Speaker 3: the uh so we had we had. We've now played

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Speaker 3: these two night Rider Tobacco War episodes.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we're here to talk about.

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Speaker 3: And we have a pretty good, pretty good guest list

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Speaker 3: here a varied assortment of guests. Yes, we got my dad, Gary, Bilievernukom,

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Speaker 3: who I have some I have someone sent you a gift.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead money, I'm gonna go ahead money,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and introduce everybody. Uh, then I

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Speaker 3: have Jeff Gardner. Now you're not from Kentucky, but I

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Speaker 3: am from Kentucky.

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Speaker 4: You are from currently don't live in Kentucky, correct, currently

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Speaker 4: in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: But Jeff, Jeff did something that's very rare in the

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Speaker 3: Bear Grease world is that he basically like hand delivered

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Speaker 3: this podcast to us.

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Speaker 1: For real. I'm not kidding.

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Speaker 3: People all the time suggest stuff, which I love, I mean,

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Speaker 3: keep them coming. A lot of times the suggestions are

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Speaker 3: about stories that maybe people don't have the full grasp

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Speaker 3: on and maybe it's a great idea. It's not someone's

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Speaker 3: fault if they send me an incomplete. But when somebody goes,

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Speaker 3: this is a great story, here's the book about it.

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Speaker 3: I know the author, here's his number. Also know a

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Speaker 3: secondary guest that you could interview about.

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Speaker 1: I think this.

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Speaker 3: Would happen to be my wife's grandpa, right, I mean,

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Speaker 3: he just like hand delivered the whole thing. And then

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Speaker 3: so we ordered the book and we were just like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is great. And so anyway, thanks Jeff.

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Speaker 4: Hey happy to help. A big fan. Love what you

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Speaker 4: guys do. And like I said, you know, I'm sure

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Speaker 4: we'll get into it. But I read the story and

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Speaker 4: was like, I literally was sitting there in my wife's

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Speaker 4: grandfather's house and I went, man, I just I bet

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Speaker 4: you could make a killing with a podcast of this.

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Speaker 4: But then I was like, you know, I would love

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Speaker 4: to hear somebody do this. And then it just clicked.

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Speaker 4: I was like, this is exactly what these guys do. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I was able to find a you know, email

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Speaker 4: for you and get it to your.

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Speaker 1: Worked out here we are.

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Speaker 3: So your your grandfather is doctor Lloyd Murdoch, Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: So my wife's grandfather, Yeah, he wife, you know, uh

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Speaker 4: selfishly consider him my grandfather.

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Speaker 1: He's been like grandfather to me.

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Speaker 4: So I may refer to him that, and you may

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Speaker 4: hear us refer to him as Bubby because that's what

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Speaker 4: the rest of the world calls him outside.

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Speaker 3: Of So he was he was on the first episode,

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Speaker 3: and he's essentially as.

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Speaker 1: Agronomus and was a tobacco expert.

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Speaker 3: So he was the one real soft spoken guy that

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Speaker 3: spoke on the first episode.

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Speaker 1: So that that was great.

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Speaker 3: And then so your brother in law, So you are

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Speaker 3: married to sisters whose grandfather married my sister.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, family is Drew's grandfather.

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Speaker 1: He is my grandfather, he's your grandfather. We're from Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: It's family, get messy.

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Speaker 6: I read the motto of Kentucky was fifteen million people,

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Speaker 6: fifteen last names.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, I like it.

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Speaker 3: I like it anytime we can jab somebody else.

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Speaker 5: Exactly, yeah, exactly. You know we're at in Kentucky. Are

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Speaker 5: you all from?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 7: I was actually uh born in Princeton, where one of

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Speaker 7: the Reds happened, and where my that's where my.

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Speaker 1: The Vatican of the Night Ridership.

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Speaker 7: Ye, my U and my grandparents still live there. It's

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Speaker 7: where Josh came down and did the interviews with my grandfather.

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Speaker 7: In one county over was where Bill Conningham was. And

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Speaker 7: but now I've since shifted. I'm in Lexington, Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: Now, okay, okay, awesome man. Well I'm from Louisville, born

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Speaker 1: and raised in Louisville.

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Speaker 5: Are both y'all? So both y'all are Louisville fans. We are, yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we're all sad to see Cali party go. It

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Speaker 1: didn't make any different, man.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I I kind of wish he was

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Speaker 7: still there because they'd be.

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Speaker 5: Loves Mark.

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Speaker 4: But we are actually two cardinals in a family of wildcats.

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Speaker 4: So and now I got a little one of my

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Speaker 4: own that it's it's tough, clay Man. They're they're wearing

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Speaker 4: him out, they're bringing them over to their side. But

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Speaker 4: he loves he loves his So I got a feeling,

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Speaker 4: you know, the more we start running around together, he'll

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Speaker 4: be all right, he'll yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well to finish out introductions, this is my neighbor friend,

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Speaker 3: the best chicken farmer that I know, Charles Spencer known

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Speaker 3: as Spence, and uh man, I just do you mind

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Speaker 3: picking up your t jar. I have a deep respect

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Speaker 3: for a man to drink tea out of a pickle

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Speaker 3: jar Man, this.

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Speaker 1: Is uh actually that Spence.

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Speaker 3: Spence comes to our church every week with a different

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Speaker 3: jar showing out everybody.

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Speaker 5: I get called out. This is like you know when

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Speaker 5: you talked about Honore Farmers on this podcast. You call

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Speaker 5: a farmer out, he's just gonna dig in right.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's funny because everybody brings water bottles. Now, this

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Speaker 3: generation is obsessed with hydration. I mean back when I

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Speaker 3: was a kid and Dad you'd be the same.

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Speaker 1: I mean we watered like cattle, like once a day.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: And uh, and now everybody has like huge water bottles,

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Speaker 3: Stanley cub this is acceptable in my book, like just

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Speaker 3: like a like a jar, you know, rather than a

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Speaker 3: big water bottle or something.

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Speaker 5: So he tastes better out of a jar. But I agree.

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Speaker 3: Spence is a farmer and he uh, he's got he

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Speaker 3: kind of had some insight into the the farm side

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Speaker 3: of it. So wanted to have Spence here. But what

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Speaker 3: I haven't told you, if you haven't figured it out already,

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Speaker 3: is that, uh, there's a federal officer amongst us.

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Speaker 1: Jeff works for the FBI. What what I do that

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Speaker 1: Dad wouldn't have come if I Gary, what's your hiding? Gary?

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Speaker 1: I drove from up here in thirty five minutes, so

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Speaker 1: outside of my jurisdiction I can do about that.

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Speaker 3: No, And I know we don't have to go into

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Speaker 3: detail about it, but that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: How long you worked for the FBI.

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Speaker 4: It'd be five years this summer. Okay, yeah, so I'm

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Speaker 4: I'm fairly new, you know, to the career as a whole.

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Speaker 4: But it's been to call you kid Utah, Utah, give

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Speaker 4: me to Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: That's right now.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, about five years and and like I said's

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Speaker 4: how we ended up out in Oklahoma?

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Speaker 3: Were you in law enforcement before? Like, what's the what's

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Speaker 3: your career path? Tell you what, Clay, It's been an

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Speaker 3: interesting ride. So, you know, me and Drew met in college.

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Speaker 4: We both played college baseball at at University Louisville, and

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Speaker 4: then uh graduated there, kicked around the minor leagues for

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Speaker 4: a little bit, and then and literally was finishing playing,

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Speaker 4: was getting married and to his sister and let me next.

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Speaker 4: So I studied criminal justice in college, and then in

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Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, I was just gotten engaged to Drew's sister,

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Speaker 4: Chelsea and needed something to say at Thanksgiving other than

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Speaker 4: I was going to go play independent league baseball again

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Speaker 4: for you know, eleven hundred bucks a month for four months, okay,

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Speaker 4: and so and so, you know, I was always interested

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Speaker 4: in law enforcement. My dad was a police officer, my

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Speaker 4: mom's dad was a police officer, and it's always.

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Speaker 1: Been big in my family. So I looked into it.

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Speaker 4: My dad had always mentioned, you know, trying to go

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Speaker 4: the federal route, and so I started looking some of

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Speaker 4: that up on USA jobs and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 4: you can just apply for the FBI. I checked this out.

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Speaker 4: So I kind of just did it on a whim

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Speaker 4: and made it through the first couple of steps and

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Speaker 4: then got denied, didn't get in. But the more I

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Speaker 4: looked at it, thought, man, I think this is what

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Speaker 4: I actually want to do. So I had to wait

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Speaker 4: a year, Like I said, I finished playing baseball one

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Speaker 4: more year, came back home, got into uh believe it

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Speaker 4: or not, like trying to sell advertisements and tickets for

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Speaker 4: a like minor league wrestling outfit.

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Speaker 5: So if you look at this, watch Nacho Lebra for

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Speaker 5: a birthday the other day.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So if you go on Netflix and you watch

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Speaker 4: there's a documentary called like Wrestlers or something or wrestling,

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Speaker 4: and it's a documentary where they follow Ohio Valley wrestling. Well,

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Speaker 4: a buddy of mine who had told me whenever I

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Speaker 4: was done playing, you know, he'd offered me a job

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Speaker 4: in medical sales, which is what he did, and I

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Speaker 4: from my locker of my last game, I sent him

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Speaker 4: a text and said, hey, dude, just finished up. I'm

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Speaker 4: getting married in a month. I need a job, Like,

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Speaker 4: is that still you still open? He said, yeah, come

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Speaker 4: see me on Monday. So I did, and I'm expected

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Speaker 4: like all right, we're gonna start talking about this whole

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Speaker 4: medical sales thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, now he says, I got a I got a

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Speaker 1: job for you.

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Speaker 4: He says, I just bought this minor league wrestling you

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Speaker 4: ever heard of? It was like, if you follow wrestling,

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Speaker 4: it's it's huge because like a lot of the greats

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Speaker 4: from the old days came up through this Ohio yeah,

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Speaker 4: Ohio Valley wrestling. And so it's looking at it on

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Speaker 4: on Netflix is a pretty interesting documentary. You could see

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Speaker 4: a little insight to to that world. But I did

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Speaker 4: that for a few months and then he finally let

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Speaker 4: me in on the medical sales side. And so I

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Speaker 4: was in and out of spine surgeries for about a

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Speaker 4: year and a half and then had reapplied to the

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Speaker 4: bureau and and ended up getting in. Okay, so it's

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Speaker 4: been a wild ride. Wow, here I am, Here, I am.

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Speaker 4: Now you're a professional podcast scout here.

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Speaker 5: It's not far from wrestling.

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Speaker 3: I just know if you have anything else you Well,

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Speaker 3: that's interesting, very interesting.

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Speaker 1: So Dad, a guy sent this to you. We have

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Speaker 1: his name.

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Speaker 3: We get that little letter right there, the little handwritten letter.

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Speaker 3: It's torn in half. Not don't know why.

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Speaker 1: Get the top part. So Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Jeff Dwyer out of Washington sent this to Gary Believer

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Speaker 3: nukelem Wow and uh, man, it's so old that it

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Speaker 3: has a plug that's like a quarter inch and has

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Speaker 3: two little plugs.

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Speaker 1: But it actually it used to work. You may get

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Speaker 1: shocked it.

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Speaker 5: It's disco lamp.

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Speaker 1: It pretty much works. Unfortunately it was broken in transit.

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Speaker 1: It cracked.

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Speaker 3: He did a great job of packing it. But uh,

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Speaker 3: do you mind if we keep this here? Though you can,

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Speaker 3: do you mind?

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Speaker 6: It's it's a lamp, but it's also like an ashtray, yeah,

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Speaker 6: or an ashtray, or like a plan like put your

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Speaker 6: bed in there, you put your pocket knife and your

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Speaker 6: wall in there at night.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is a throwback to the to the Black Panther.

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Speaker 3: The first episode of Bear Grease. We did a We

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Speaker 3: did an episode called the Myth of the Southern Mountain Lion,

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Speaker 3: and at the end of it we talked about black

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Speaker 3: panthers and not a week goes by. I'm without exaggeration,

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Speaker 3: but someone doesn't send me something online about black panthers

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Speaker 3: because dad believes in them. Yeah, just spurning the science.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, you got a new lamp. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It looks like a work on This is just terrible.

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Speaker 3: I mean it hardly even looks like a panther, but

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Speaker 3: you can see his tail curled right here. I mean,

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Speaker 3: like the person that made that, I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: but it's it's wonderful. So congratulations, than Jeff stylized, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: thank you, Jeff.

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Speaker 8: That was That's pretty awesome. And I never had a

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Speaker 8: gift that I would treasure more.

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Speaker 5: I don't think he wrote in.

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Speaker 6: He wrote in and sent me a picture of it

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Speaker 6: and said, I'd like to say this to Gary Believernewkam

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Speaker 6: And I said, I got an.

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Speaker 3: Address, will take it. And I had my believer head

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Speaker 3: in the truck and I forgot.

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Speaker 1: To put it on. Oh man, So anyway, that's very nice.

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Speaker 3: Well, uh, the night Rider or Tobacco War of Tennessee

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Speaker 3: and Kentucky farinating.

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Speaker 5: So sorry.

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Speaker 1: So would y'all have grown up knowing about this story.

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Speaker 4: I didn't learn about it until, you know, I married

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Speaker 4: into the family. I think my first trip to Princeton

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Speaker 4: was actually during the black Patch Festival.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, first time going down there.

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Speaker 7: So Princeton still holds the black Patch Festival every fall

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Speaker 7: and around the time that their smoke, fire and tobacco,

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Speaker 7: and uh, I went to that festival ever since.

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Speaker 1: I was really what do they do there?

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Speaker 7: Oh, it's just they shut down main street. They have

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Speaker 7: all kinds of little tints and things set up selling stuff.

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Speaker 7: I remember when I was super young, we would always

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Speaker 7: do like a frisbee contest where accuracy distance and stuff

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Speaker 7: like that, So I was always geared up for that.

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Speaker 7: They do pancake breakfast and serve the town.

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Speaker 1: How big is Princeton, Kentucky?

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Speaker 7: Probably four or five thousand people maybe something like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when you can you smell the dark fire tobacco,

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Speaker 3: when it's smell like hickory smoker, does it smell like

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Speaker 3: tobacco smoke?

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Speaker 7: It's very very unique. I will say that you get

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Speaker 7: the smell of hickory, you know, much like you you know,

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Speaker 7: if you throw something in the smoker and put put

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Speaker 7: hickory chips in it. It's a lot like that kind

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Speaker 7: of smell. But it does have a have a distinct smell.

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Speaker 1: Because I get I mean, the tobacco is not burning.

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Speaker 7: No, no, it's not. It's the woods are the wood

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Speaker 7: on the bottom of the of the floor of the

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Speaker 7: barn are covered with sawdust and it's just that smoke

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Speaker 7: that rises up.

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Speaker 1: And did you have family that grew tobacco?

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Speaker 7: Nope, nope, no, No, I don't have any. We don't

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Speaker 7: have any other than Western Oklahoma. We don't have any

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Speaker 7: farmers out in our family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I went to basic with the guy that their family

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Speaker 5: grew tobac I was thinking about it, and I'm not

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Speaker 5: sure it just in Kentucky, isn't it. A big old

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Speaker 5: dude name wrecked in He'd talk about going in the

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Speaker 5: tobacco patch and if it was wet, like they'd get

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Speaker 5: sick like when they worked it. I guess because the nicotine.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, oh really it was like brushing up against them. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I guess just working in the You can't go in

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Speaker 5: there when it's wet. But I just randomly remember that

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Speaker 5: the other day listening to this m M.

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Speaker 1: That's my interesting It used to be all over too,

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Speaker 1: I mean even in there. I can recall I grew.

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Speaker 4: Up in basically in the city in Louisville, and so

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Speaker 4: there would be times where you'd drive through and you'd

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Speaker 4: see patches of open land, you know, within city limits,

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Speaker 4: where people were growing to back it in and.

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Speaker 1: It just in your lifetime. Absolutely. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I remember in fourth grade it was still like that's

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Speaker 4: the grade in Kentucky where you learn all about Kentucky

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Speaker 4: history and all that. And I remember learning that that

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Speaker 4: was like the number one cash crop.

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Speaker 1: Huh back then, I doubt it is now. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's no is it? So?

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Speaker 4: I mean it's always been huge, you know, It's Kentucky's

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Speaker 4: kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: We were just known for man's vices like tobacco, bourbon,

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Speaker 1: and horse racing. You know, if you want to, if

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Speaker 1: you want to, you know, get drunk, have a cigarette,

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Speaker 1: and horses.

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Speaker 7: It is a one stop.

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Speaker 1: Shot man I started.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think they grew a lot of

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Speaker 3: tobacco here in the Ozarks. It's certainly I think it

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Speaker 3: was grown at times, but this was not known for that.

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Speaker 3: I really started learning about tobacco when I started going

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Speaker 3: to East Tennessee and uh running around with Roy Clark

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Speaker 3: whose gouy that Roy's still alives in the seventies, and uh,

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Speaker 3: they they had tobacco allotments. They just sold their tobacco allotments,

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Speaker 3: as I understand it, in the last twenty years. But

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Speaker 3: but you know, that's that's the way it went that,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you knew it. We didn't really

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Speaker 3: get into the modern tobacco stuff. But back in the day,

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Speaker 3: just people grew it and there wasn't a lot of regulation.

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Speaker 3: But after after about the time of the Tobacco Wars,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of federal regulation came in on the

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Speaker 3: tobacco market and they started doing allotments for tobacco and

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Speaker 3: and basically the government would say, like, you can grow

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Speaker 3: five acres or tobacco period every year, but you could

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Speaker 3: sell your allotment to a farmer. And so if you

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Speaker 3: didn't want to grow it, is that am I?

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Speaker 1: Is this right? Do y'all Do y'all know some of

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Speaker 1: that stuff?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so my grandfather knows obviously a little bit more

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Speaker 7: about the allotment. But but from what I've gathered, that's

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Speaker 7: that sounds pretty accurate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so Roy Clark grew up. And now they

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Speaker 3: call it backer. I'm sure that's I can't believe I

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Speaker 3: went through this whole episode without saying backer, But that's

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Speaker 3: the way they say it in East Tennessee. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're not joking or trying to be cute.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's backerbacker or tobacco, tobacco, tobacco.

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Speaker 7: Bill Comingham said it several times.

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Speaker 1: Tobacco, tobacco, yeah, tobacco. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But uh but you know Roy was in his lifetime

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Speaker 3: plowing with a with a horse like hand, plowing tobacco.

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Speaker 3: But it was such a convenient crop because you could

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Speaker 3: grow a small acreage and make that much money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which was astonishing. I did.

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Speaker 3: We had a couple of corrections on this episode, and

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Speaker 3: one of them there was a modern tobacco farmer that

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Speaker 3: told me, actually, the the the yield ton per acre

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Speaker 3: yield that we said was way off. We said it

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Speaker 3: was four thousand pounds per acre, and he said even

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Speaker 3: today in like the best case.

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Speaker 1: Scenario, you don't get that much. He said, you get

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Speaker 1: like two thousand.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, but point bing, you could grow a small

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Speaker 3: amount of the of tobacco and it just had this

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Speaker 3: enormous value. And I mean when you start doing the

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Speaker 3: and you see that, you could almost like if you

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Speaker 3: were just a subsistence guy making well from what Joe

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Speaker 3: Scott said twenty five cents a day to a dollar

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Speaker 3: a day, Doctor Murdoch said, you can make a dollar

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Speaker 3: a day. Joe Scott was talking about making twenty five

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Speaker 3: cents a day.

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Speaker 1: Did y'all hear that?

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Speaker 3: And so essentially you're making that range of money for

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Speaker 3: just an uneducated labor and then you could like double

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Speaker 3: your income by having three or four acres or tobacco. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you just you kind of get the sense of

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Speaker 3: how important that would be.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and moving from subsistence to like where

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Speaker 5: you can actually buy things. Yeah, that's one of the

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Speaker 5: problems on a fund is you can produce a lot,

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Speaker 5: but converting it into cash is a big deal, you know.

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Speaker 5: And I don't know that was just I understand why

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Speaker 5: where they're coming from, you know, like just to have

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Speaker 5: something you can grow and just there's a ready set market.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 5: It just that kind of thing is extremely rare. An egg, yeah,

391
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Speaker 5: you know, so, especially on that small of a acreage.

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Speaker 5: It's just I understand, like a lot of white people

393
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Speaker 5: got upset and blood and all that stuff. You know,

394
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Speaker 5: Like it really was kind of a unique situation. Yeah,

395
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Speaker 5: compared to like cotton or something else where, you know,

396
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Speaker 5: by that you need so much land to do it

397
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Speaker 5: and the labor. You know, a small family could, like

398
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Speaker 5: you said, double their income and he gave all the

399
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 5: like put a calico dress for Easter and you have

400
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Speaker 5: shoes and yeah in that, Like, I don't know, it's

401
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 5: just it's kind of a unique situation.

402
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Speaker 1: He's really cool to hear about.

403
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'll start off by just asking you guys,

404
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 3: what stood out to you? Jeff, I might start with

405
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: you just like the whole podcast, because there's a hundred

406
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 3: things I want. I want to talk about the Joe

407
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: Scott interview. Uh, I want to talk about Bill Cunningham.

408
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a whole there's one hundred different things

409
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: want to talk about. But usually that's what we did

410
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 3: is just kind of like go around the room and

411
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 3: just be like what stood out to you? What was

412
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 3: your favorite thing or something new you learned? But what's

413
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: that to you?

414
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Speaker 4: Jeff, tell you what, man, I think the biggest thing

415
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 4: is it's you know, I think I said this when

416
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Speaker 4: of our first sent it to you all.

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Speaker 1: It's such a challenging story.

418
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Speaker 4: You know, you have these people who felt like they were,

419
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Speaker 4: you know, being taken advantage of, and by all means

420
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 4: they were, and so they you can't blame them for

421
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: wanting to you know, eventually, like you're saying, eventually getting

422
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 4: to the point where there's bloodshed because they're upset. But

423
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Speaker 4: I think I sent you all the email to this

424
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Speaker 4: thing after I read the first chapter of that book

425
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Speaker 4: and the way it had always been painted to me

426
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 4: was obviously from the local standpoint of who the Night

427
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 4: Writers were, why they were standing up against Duke. Well,

428
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 4: if you read the first chapter of that book, I

429
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 4: mean he was an American success story too.

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, his daddy lived home from the Civil

431
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Speaker 1: War too. I think he had lost his wife. You know,

432
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: they were kids, were living with either an ann or an.

433
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Speaker 4: Uncle something like that, and all they had was one

434
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Speaker 4: mule in a patch of tobacco, you know what I mean.

435
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: And that was Washington Duke, James James Buck, Duke's dad.

436
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 4: Exactly who became in Buck and and Buck hops on

437
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 4: the trailer behind the mule and they go start selling

438
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 4: this tobacco. And next thing, you know, you know, Buck

439
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 4: is growing this thing, and he's moving to New York

440
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 4: and he's the you know, he's the rebel now in

441
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 4: New York City trying to make a name for himself.

442
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: And so you know, in America we celebrate that person too. Yeah.

443
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, But then at what point does it become where

444
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 4: it gets too much, and that's where you saw Washington Duke.

445
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 4: You know, there's a quote he has in the book

446
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: where he says something along the lines of, you know,

447
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 4: there's two or three things I've never understood in this world.

448
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: The Trinity and my son, my son Buck is that

449
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: I remember that?

450
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 4: And you know he says he says that, and it

451
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 4: goes you know, and Judge Cunningham mentioned the same thing

452
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,239
Speaker 4: in there that you know, a successful entrepreneur sometimes is

453
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 4: in the DNA. And so you have this guy who

454
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 4: built this company up and probably reached a point where

455
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 4: he could have started giving back. And you know, at

456
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 4: some point in his career he he forgot what it

457
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 4: was like to be the farmer and to be the

458
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 4: guy grinding every day. But then you also have this

459
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 4: other side. And what challenges me is you have a

460
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 4: guy like David Amos, where you know, I hate to

461
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 4: say it, like this guy, I haven't had this thought

462
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 4: till recently, but I go, this was an educated man

463
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 4: who rallied up a lot of probably uneducated people to

464
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 4: go do his bidding to Was he fulfilling a desire

465
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 4: or dream to be this war general that he never

466
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 4: got to carry out from his days and I think

467
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 4: he went to like Hopkinsville Military School. Yeah, so you

468
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 4: kind of wonder that, right, like was this two egos

469
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 4: that ultimately were collide or is it even not that big?

470
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: Am I overthinking that? You know what I mean? Like

471
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: that's great. It's just a lot we.

472
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 3: Don't really ever see really why David Amos did what

473
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 3: he did, like that he never really tips his hat completely.

474
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, Judge Cunningham, who.

475
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 3: I probably should have referred him as Judge Cunningham of

476
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: the podcast, Sorry sir, uh I called him Bill I

477
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 3: he he he kind of painted the picture of him

478
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: being this uh well, it was just easy to buy

479
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 3: into being this kind of guy that was just looking

480
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 3: out for his people.

481
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 5: With the freed slaves. He treat the freed slaves.

482
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and it makes sense, and I think the

483
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: way the book reads is that that's the case. But

484
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, I just my mind started

485
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 4: going there a little bit, and and that probably is

486
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 4: partly to do what I do for a living. You

487
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 4: you kind of try to examine both sides ago, all right,

488
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 4: what's the motive behind this?

489
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: But I can't help but think was that potentially part of.

490
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: Well man, that's the that's the same thing that happens

491
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: in every story we tell, like we we have in

492
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 3: our mind a narrative that fits something inside of us.

493
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: Because I was thinking the same thing, is like David

494
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: Amos a villain or a hero and I honestly don't

495
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: know still like what I think about him because it

496
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: a story. Yeah, because he could have I mean, if

497
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 3: you could have just met him and talked with him,

498
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 3: you probably could have got a sense of does this

499
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: guy really like feel sorry and empathetic towards people being

500
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: take advantage of by this like corporate criminal or.

501
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: Or was it was there ulterior motive vindictive?

502
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you saw him like a bunch of guys

503
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 5: whooping up on someone with his kids screaming and his

504
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 5: wife in their front yard beating them senseless.

505
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: You'd probably it'd probably be pretty easy.

506
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 5: To make a judgment, you know, and like there's some

507
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 5: real violence in this thing.

508
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 3: And then he absolutely had seemingly everything to do with that.

509
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh yeah, because I mean that was a whole

510
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 5: organization and we're gonna have captains and you're gonna have

511
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 5: squads and yeah, you know, I.

512
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: Mean just and I guess that part where you and

513
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 4: I apologies for cutting you off and on I guess

514
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: that part's what what does it for him? It makes

515
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 4: me go there because you know, it makes a point

516
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 4: to mention that in the book of how this guy

517
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 4: was raised and I think his daddy was a doctor too,

518
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 4: So you go, is this one of you Do you

519
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: see this in movies and all that where you see

520
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 4: people who their family wants them to continue down the

521
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 4: family line or what have you. But did he inside

522
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: always want to be, you know, in this other world

523
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 4: and now this was his opportunity to And that's speculation,

524
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, I don't know, but.

525
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: Well, and it was said in the book.

526
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: We didn't maybe we said it, but he he he

527
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: idolized these Civil war military Yeah so maybe we said that,

528
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 3: but uh yeah, no, that's that's a great point, Drew.

529
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: What stood out to you?

530
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 7: So first, phenomenal job on the podcast. I've heard, like

531
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 7: I said, heard about this story since I was I

532
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 7: was young, young, and and growing up in that in

533
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 7: that area and region of Kentucky. These guys have always

534
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 7: night writers have been idolized. You know, David Amos, he

535
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 7: still has signs in cop Kentucky. I think Josh saw

536
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 7: one of you know, home of David Amos. I mean

537
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 7: he's still here, they're proud of Oh yeah, absolutely, And

538
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 7: uh so I was always one sided towards towards the

539
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 7: Night Writers. But then once you start having experiences you

540
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 7: get older, you kind of are like, I don't know

541
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 7: if they should have been. But as far as the

542
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 7: podcast goes, what I really loved about it was the

543
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 7: the book and I think I think Judge Cunningham talked

544
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 7: about it a little bit, but you know, he was

545
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 7: trying to be unbiased when he wrote the book. But

546
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,239
Speaker 7: that the last monologue of the second one where he

547
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 7: really gives his expresses, his opinions and especially what he

548
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 7: did for a career, his whole life, when you know

549
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 7: he he swore to uphold the Constitution in the law

550
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 7: and h to really get his his perspective on it

551
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 7: all where he sympathizes with him but he can't approve

552
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 7: of it. I love that whole, the whole last twelve

553
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 7: fifteen minutes whatever it was, where he he kind of

554
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 7: ran down his thoughts of it. That was a that

555
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 7: was a really good perspective.

556
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was you know he he brought such authority

557
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 3: on this subject. He was a perfect guest, like really

558
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: he was in and we didn't get into his background

559
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: a ton other than just I kept saying that he

560
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: was a Kentucky Supreme Court judge. He was more than

561
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 3: that though, I mean he was a Prime Court justice justice.

562
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but but.

563
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, him him saying what he said was like a

564
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: pretty balanced view of it. And then his interpretation is

565
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: conclusion of how kind of the country handled the situation.

566
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have thought of it because he said, he said,

567
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: the the corporate criminal got dealt with and and you know,

568
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: the monopoly was broken up. Excuse me, and uh, but

569
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 3: also David Amos didn't get didn't even go to prison,

570
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: which you know, you could look at that and say, well,

571
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: that's being soft on a pretty hard criminal. But he

572
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: saw it as kind of like this this balance. And

573
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: then when he talked about jury nullification, nullification, which was

574
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: a mistake that we made.

575
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: Someone sent it in.

576
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: I said, I thought Judge Bill Cunningham said jury notification,

577
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: which didn't make sense to me. He said, he said,

578
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 3: he said jury nullification, which that makes sense when a

579
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: jury knows someone's guilty and basically just like, let's the

580
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 3: guy off. And he was saying that that was like

581
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: this kind of balance, which now that is the jury nullification.

582
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 3: You could clearly see how that could be used in

583
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: a good old boy system and totally be misused. But

584
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: at the same time, sometimes somebody does something they don't

585
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: really deserve what the law prescribes, and so it's you know,

586
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: kind of a kind of a gray area, probably, but

587
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: it sounds like it happens all the time and probably

588
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 3: usually used in a positive way. But yeah, I liked

589
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: it when he said he said, I've sent a lot

590
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: of people to the penitentiary that.

591
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: I sympathized with.

592
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, for some reason, that like gave a kind of

593
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 3: like humanize the law almost, Like not that it makes

594
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: any difference to the guy who's going to the pen

595
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: for twenty years to know that the judge sympathized with him,

596
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: but it makes you feel a little bit better.

597
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 6: Interesting, how much faith you put in the judicial system,

598
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 6: even if there were things like dream mullification, like that

599
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 6: person went through the proper channels and was dealt with

600
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 6: and now it's done, you know.

601
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was interesting.

602
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 7: Well, and also we have you know, we have the

603
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 7: book or we have the two hour podcast to refer

604
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 7: back to. But at the time that the jury nullified,

605
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 7: this was nineteen eleven and it had been over for

606
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 7: two to three years, so, you know, in the way

607
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 7: when I heard Judge Cunningham talk about it, he's like,

608
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 7: we're just going to put it into this.

609
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: It's done for me. Let's let's just move and bury

610
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 5: the hatchet.

611
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, move on right, yep, Yeah, Spence, what stood out

612
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: to you about it?

613
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 5: There was a part where he was the gentleman. I

614
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 5: get all the names mixed up, but the guy that

615
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 5: was the Supreme Court justice, that's someone's grandpa.

616
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: I apologize sisters, and my kids are the tall, blonde ones.

617
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 5: That's how I go my life. But it's the just

618
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 5: when he talked about like, you know the thirty there's

619
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 5: that lady got thirty five thousand, and it's like, but

620
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 5: Duke was worth two hundred million, didn't even know if

621
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 5: he even knew of the tobacco war.

622
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was kind of a letdown, wasn't it.

623
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 6: Yeah?

624
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 5: And I thought about like Solomon when he's like vanity

625
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 5: of vanities, All things are vanities, you know, and it's

626
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 5: just like like, man, all this people beat, people ruined,

627
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 5: you know, just these lifetime with terrible memories, all the

628
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 5: towns burned down, and the guy that it was all

629
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 5: fighting against didn't may not have even known it was happening,

630
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 5: and just like, golly but it I don't know. And

631
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 5: also just there, so there was that part of just

632
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 5: like and I don't know what to do with that.

633
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 5: Just it's a thinker, yeah, you know, like and you

634
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 5: ask questions of like which side would you would have

635
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 5: been on? And I would have been on the vigilante

636
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 5: side as a young guy, but I wouldn't now because

637
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 5: I change, like like looking at myself in the mirror,

638
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 5: you know, I probably would have turned narc you know,

639
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 5: like at some point the first time I watched some yeah,

640
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 5: well just watching some guy get beat in front of

641
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 5: his kids, Like that's not cool.

642
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: You know.

643
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 5: It's one thing, you're fighting someone that wants to fight.

644
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 5: But so I don't it just and I think it's

645
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 5: like that with a lot of American history because it's

646
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 5: our history. You know, It's it's complicated, it's not one side,

647
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 5: it's mixed, and and I think that's what makes these

648
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 5: stories so powerful, Clay, that you go about is it's

649
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 5: okay that it's complicated because we're complicated when we're flawed,

650
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 5: and a guy. You can respect a guy but really

651
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 5: hate something he did, you know, and just like us,

652
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 5: like there's things I'm ashamed of in my past and

653
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 5: I hope they don't define me. Yeah, yeah, you know,

654
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 5: so that there's that aspect. And then also just like

655
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 5: I've been on the receiving end of something similar to this,

656
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 5: and like pot guests, it's probably it's probably not that big,

657
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 5: but you know, and I sent you a text to

658
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 5: like man that it really hit home. And Carlo was

659
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 5: my wife. We were sitting there, I was having coffee

660
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 5: and when it it was really cold, and so like

661
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 5: that's it's a great way to stay inside by talking

662
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 5: to your wife.

663
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: You know.

664
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 5: It's in the teens. But and just like we were

665
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 5: kind of reminiscent over that, you know, stuff that happened

666
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 5: like a decade ago. And it is hard being an

667
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 5: independent farmer, you know, and farming's just hard, and so

668
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 5: much of like the you know, farmers are great folks generally,

669
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 5: I mean, we're it's a slice of society. You got

670
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 5: your dirt balls in that. But like there's a reason

671
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 5: we romanticize them, like you talked about that. But it's

672
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 5: just like I just feel like sometimes a farming community

673
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 5: throughout the at least in American history, because I don't

674
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 5: have a you know, I don't have a viewpoint to

675
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 5: look at other countries. But Galy, like you know, like

676
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 5: you were talking about there that two hundred million, what

677
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 5: if he would have made a hundred million and all

678
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 5: these other lives could have been radically changed, Like kids

679
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 5: could have went to school with shoes on, and no

680
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 5: one's towns were burned. But there's that thing that always

681
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 5: just like you know, the average farmer gets five cents

682
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 5: of a dollar or something, you know, like, and it's

683
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 5: just that there it's so easy to extract from agriculture,

684
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: and those guys so rarely get what's deserved from something

685
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 5: that we all do three times or maybe more day,

686
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 5: you know. So it just it's just a thinker, man. Yeah,

687
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 5: this was really impacted analysis.

688
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: Man.

689
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,479
Speaker 3: I like what you said about a young you would

690
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 3: have been a vigilanti, but an older you wouldn't have.

691
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: And it's you know, the luxury that we have today

692
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 3: is that we get to hear this whole story and

693
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 3: we're not really emotionally involved with it. I mean, even

694
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,479
Speaker 3: if you're from there, you know, you weren't there during

695
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: that time. And we can like you know, historical revision,

696
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 3: we can look back on it and be be think

697
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: we can understand it. There's stuff going on today that

698
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: they'll be making, you know, Turkey groups podcasts about you know,

699
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: fifty years from now that maybe we're a part of.

700
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: You know, I think about that.

701
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: It's like, what would be an equivalent today of something

702
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: like this.

703
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: It's but it's pretty extreme.

704
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 3: I mean, violence is violence, whether it was done three

705
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: thousand years ago or today in in the but but

706
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 3: human nature is still the same. So people still still

707
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 3: are violent and do crazy stuff even with the law,

708
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 3: and perhaps it's perhaps it's less than it would have

709
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: been anyway.

710
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: Point being, I'm.

711
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 3: With you, I think I think I would have sided

712
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 3: with the farmers one hundred percent.

713
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: But I would have hoped I would have been reason

714
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: oh gotcha got the association farmers.

715
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really would have because I just would have been, like,

716
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: you know, the corporation getting that much just seems unjust

717
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: and what they were doing. But I think I would

718
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: have been I would have been like, hey, there's a

719
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 3: better way to do this, you know, And I would

720
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 3: hope that's the best version of my interpretation, which I

721
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 3: don't know if it really would have been true. But

722
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: I also think that I also think going back to

723
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 3: your question of did it really matter, and essentially Bill

724
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: Cunningham's conclusion was that it really didn't. Like this, the

725
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,959
Speaker 3: black patch is like thirty counties out of how many

726
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: maybe one hundred plus counties that maybe grow tobacco in

727
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: the country.

728
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 5: I don't know, it was, yeah, probably more than that,

729
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 5: probably more than because Virginia and North Carolina.

730
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, in all tons of counties.

731
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it's like I'm just guessing ten percent

732
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: of the tobacco country might be the black patch maybe

733
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: or maybe less.

734
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: So, you know, how would this have.

735
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 3: Affected these guys And maybe it didn't really affect them

736
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: at all. James buck Duke wouldn't even known what was

737
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 3: going on, But it seems like it did get the

738
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 3: attention of the nation at the time, as was evidenced

739
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 3: by articles being written in national publications. And you can't

740
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: help but think that it would have brought attention to

741
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: the powers that be that had the you know that

742
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: we're changing some of these things. So maybe it had

743
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 3: more impact than you would think to.

744
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 5: Break up the monopoly and yeah, yeah.

745
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 3: But then but I guess the main thing was just

746
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 3: the economic factors, you know, that change, just like people

747
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: started smoking more so just like the demand just kept skyrocketing.

748
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: But all pretty wild?

749
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 3: Did y'all think I did a good enough job of like,

750
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 3: uh shaming tobacco users?

751
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 4: As you bring that up, I think there's a story

752
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 4: that you need to clarify that I would love to

753
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 4: hear more. You said you've thought you heard the voice

754
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 4: of God tell you not to not to anymore, and

755
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: I've got to hear that story.

756
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: Well, I mean and when I when I say the

757
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 3: voice of God, I didn't hear the audible voice of God.

758
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: But just and I'm very serious.

759
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: I mean I was probably nineteen years old and uh,

760
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: dip skull behind Juju and Pap Paul's back over here.

761
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 5: Did you know, Gary?

762
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 8: I knew, you knew I knew other things that you

763
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 8: don't know that I knew.

764
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 1: Let's hear I know. I maybe I can't tell you.

765
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't not tell you. I might tell you privately,

766
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: do do no?

767
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I'm very interested to hear what you because

768
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 3: you don't know if I know anything else.

769
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: As soon as you stop wearing tennis shoes, he knew.

770
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 5: That the moment.

771
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 3: No, no, but I just it was the time of

772
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,959
Speaker 3: my life when I when I started to just walk

773
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 3: closer with God.

774
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: And I just I mean, I.

775
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 3: Literally remember one time driving down the road chunking a

776
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 3: can of skull. I was littering, FBI, but I chunk

777
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 3: can of skull.

778
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: And uh.

779
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: Official, and and I just knew it was bad. I

780
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 3: just knew that, like, this is not someone wanted to do.

781
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: So when I did the story, I'm kind of joking.

782
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: I didn't want to glorify tobacco because, in a way,

783
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 3: I mean, the the the agriculture and the farming of

784
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: the tobacco is really cool. It's it's an interest, it's

785
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: interesting tradition. But then when you when you dive into

786
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: it and it's like, yeah, this is really like something

787
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 3: the CD underbelly of of the world. I mean, you know,

788
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 3: and I just don't. I just didn't want people to

789
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: get the wrong idea. I don't view personally tobacco use

790
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: is just like something casual that is like okay, I

791
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 3: mean I have lots of great friends that chew tobacco.

792
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 3: Probably people listening to this podcast and they should stop. So,

793
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 3: I mean it's a period like so that's just the

794
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 3: way I feel about it. Dad, what do you think

795
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: is that?

796
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: Okay?

797
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: Hey, when you when you have your own podcast, you

798
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: can be preachy.

799
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're an FBI am. I right, what's that? I said?

800
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 3: You're you're an FBI agent. What I'm saying is right, right.

801
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all you man, You're I'm the guest here.

802
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: I was looking for the FBI stamp of approval, Like.

803
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 5: Dare McGruff the crime dog was that like back in

804
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 5: the age.

805
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: That's that's me. We're gonna have a branch of bear.

806
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 5: My middle boy is like head over heels with hunting

807
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 5: and all that stuff. So here in Clay like is

808
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 5: a strong role model saying don't do tobacco. You know,

809
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 5: like sometimes you have that kid and need I need,

810
00:41:58,600 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 5: I need.

811
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: A little like hand. So I could talk to these grown.

812
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: Men and be like, I'm mister ferres Use, you shouldn't

813
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 3: do tobacco.

814
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 5: People are gonna have a lot of mixed emotions about this.

815
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 3: I mean I do too, but it's just sometimes the

816
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 3: truth hurts. But Dad, what stood out to you? Well,

817
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: I tell you it was an amazing deal.

818
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 8: But when you think about it, our country is made

819
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 8: up of amazing deals. I mean, you can just take this,

820
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 8: take the personalities out, and stick it in any place.

821
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 8: You know, the way the Indians were treated, it just

822
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 8: keep going all the way through. And uh, but I

823
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 8: think about Mary Lou. Don't monkey with Mary Lou. Remember

824
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 8: Mary Lou? I mean she was pretty. The women didn't

825
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 8: like her, she was opinionated, the men didn't like her.

826
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: And she ended up getting wealthy over this deal.

827
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 5: And she pretty much put a shot to quite a

828
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 5: bunch though.

829
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 8: But she, I mean, she was the first step in

830
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 8: stopping it, wasn't she couldn't you say?

831
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 3: That's the way Bill described that. She was the first

832
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 3: litigation against the night riders.

833
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 8: So if you got something going, you know, you need

834
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 8: to veer from Maryland. And then you think about our

835
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 8: country being so new and young. I mean, it hadn't developed,

836
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 8: We didn't have really strong unions. So they have vigilantes,

837
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 8: so you know, I get upset sometimes with union stuff,

838
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 8: but they really served a purpose in our country. They

839
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 8: established the worker to have a voice. They didn't have

840
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 8: a voice. Yeah, anti trust. I mean all it would

841
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 8: have taken was a few years later and have a

842
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 8: law passed where hey, if you get so big, man,

843
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 8: we're gonna bust you up, and we're gonna take care

844
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 8: of you. You we're gonna make sure think you know.

845
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 8: So a lot of legal things that developed out of

846
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 8: this that kind of put up a quietness on the

847
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 8: I love the Vigilantis. When I was young, I used

848
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 8: to think, man, somebody ought to take that kid right there, take.

849
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 9: Him out behind the barn and juste us.

850
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 8: But you couldn't do it because you might have five

851
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 8: good ideas, but you could have four bad ideas, you know.

852
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 8: So you need the law of the Constitution to come

853
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 8: in and establish all this. And I think we did

854
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 8: a great job of doing that to keep our country

855
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 8: on track. And this story just absolutely puts a magnifying

856
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 8: glass on all that because we didn't have a lot

857
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 8: of that stuff established. And because of this and many

858
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 8: other stories, you know, the law developed anti trust to

859
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 8: break it up monopolies the unions have where the workers

860
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 8: have voices and so forth.

861
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: It was really insightful to me to hear Bill Cunningham

862
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: talk about how this very issue has overthrown a lot

863
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 3: of countries. Yeah, because you know, like when the government

864
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 3: would and I feel like what he's talking about is

865
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: like when the government saw that these monopolies had so

866
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: much power and they came in and said, we're going

867
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 3: to take some of that power away from you. I

868
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 3: mean that's like a step towards communism in a way.

869
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like government control of business. But they

870
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 3: did it just enough that it allowed people to still

871
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: be massively successful without without it just you know, totally

872
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 3: crippling their workers. So they kind of did it like

873
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: just enough. And then yeah, the unions, I agree with

874
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: what you're saying, like, you know, you kind of have

875
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 3: sometimes the union stuff I don't understand fully, but it

876
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 3: has helped a lot of people in the country. And

877
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: so they just did everything kind of just right. That

878
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: set America up for the next hundred years, which would

879
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 3: you know, make us you know, so successful in many ways.

880
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: And you had like it.

881
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 5: They touched on it, and I thought it was really

882
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 5: good because like if you back out a you know,

883
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 5: sometimes you look at little something to get an idea,

884
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 5: but you back out. And this story was playing at

885
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 5: that time, like It was a really turbulent time, right,

886
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 5: Like you had all the barons, like the robber barons

887
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 5: or whatever, like Vanderbilt and all them. You had railroads

888
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 5: going up. You had Upton Sinclair's the jungle with like

889
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 5: people falling into pickle vats or meat packing plants. You

890
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 5: had all the like the automotive stuffs, like where they're

891
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 5: fighting cops and stuff and gunfights. You know, you had

892
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 5: all the al Capone and you know, like Bonnie and

893
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 5: Clyde and like that was all in this time period

894
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 5: coming off the Civil War, the you know, Tulsa was burned,

895
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 5: You had the sharecroppers and like desegregation, all these things.

896
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 5: This country was just roiling and it's all messy, yeah,

897
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 5: you know, and and and I think it's it's just

898
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 5: sometimes it's just messy.

899
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 3: And it could have gone a lot of different ways.

900
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 3: It could have, and it kind of moved towards stability

901
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: to some degree. And you know, there's different groups of

902
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 3: people that would argue that it didn't and and but

903
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 3: in general it moved towards stability, at least as you

904
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 3: compare to other parts of the world, you know. But yeah,

905
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: it's such a what I love about these stories. So

906
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: this book I've got I've got uh Bill Cliningham's book

907
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: right here. This book, as I understand that it would

908
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 3: have been kind of a regionally known I mean, this

909
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: wasn't like a New York Times bestseller, But it's a fantastic,

910
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: fantastic book, fantastic story that many people outside of the

911
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 3: Black Patch would have never heard.

912
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 7: Haven't heard it?

913
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well if you do read, I would encourage anybody

914
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 4: listening to read it because there's so much you guys

915
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: just can't cover in a podcast. Like there's small little

916
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 4: you know, anecdotes and different things in there about some

917
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 4: of the other experiences that were going on out there

918
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 4: that are just unreal, you know, and you really get

919
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 4: that feel for how violent it was, you know at

920
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 4: some points and you know, like he mentions.

921
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: And you know, it.

922
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 4: Was just disgusting there, like it just at some point,

923
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 4: this thing became more violent than it probably was even

924
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 4: intended on on becoming, you know, And I think that's

925
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 4: we see that happen all the time in uh, you know,

926
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: in history and in today's where people join in on

927
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 4: something and then all of a sudden somebody else comes

928
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 4: in to escalate it because they're not really worried about

929
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 4: the mission anymore. Yeah, they're just looking to crack some skulls, right,

930
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 4: And you had some of that infiltrated toros in there.

931
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 3: Well, that and that was something that I'm glad you

932
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: brought that up because I wanted to say that on here.

933
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes in an episode you just don't have

934
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 3: enough space or time to say everything. But there was

935
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 3: there was some accusation of the Night Riders being a

936
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: racist organization because I mean, it would have been probably

937
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 3: at the pinnacle of like klu Klux klu Klux Klan

938
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 3: q klux Klan. You know, it's the k Ku Klux

939
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: q q klux Klan, isn't.

940
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 5: It kkk though it is according to the Ramones song.

941
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 3: Has mocked me before over saying the klu Klux Klan you're.

942
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: Taking was founded in your state, wouldn't it.

943
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: Well, now, I don't know about that, but but there

944
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 3: was there was. There was there was some talk of that,

945
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 3: and basically in Bill's book, which is my source, they

946
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 3: he was he had a section where he talked about

947
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 3: how that there were a lot of African Americans in

948
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 3: the association, not necessarily Night Riders though because that was

949
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 3: a segregate a very segregated society, so they kind of

950
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 3: like lived in different places. But as the thing went

951
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 3: further and further, people would under the name of the

952
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 3: night Riders probably do some stuff completely off mission, and

953
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 3: so there probably was some racist stuff going on that

954
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 3: kind of was like this overlap between you know, these

955
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: groups of people. So that was something that was talked about.

956
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: But then there were a lot of people guys that

957
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 3: just kind of under the hood of a black mask

958
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 3: just started doing crazy stuff that that had nothing to

959
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 3: do with tobacco, but they were kind of lumped in

960
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 3: with night Riders, so it wasn't just all this like

961
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 3: really clear cut mission.

962
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: That a good description, I think, No, I think you're

963
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: right on with it. Yeah.

964
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, And a lot of a lot of bad things

965
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 6: happen under anonymity, yeah, you know what I mean. Anonymity

966
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 6: seems to be a fuel for fire sometimes. You know

967
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 6: what happens all the time on the internet, you know

968
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 6: what I mean, People even comments and saying horrible things

969
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 6: that I guarantee most of them would never say face

970
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 6: to face to another person. That was a kind of

971
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 6: that time period's version of that where they felt the

972
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 6: freedom to go do that. Maybe not freedom, but they

973
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 6: felt the protection or just that anonymity to go and

974
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 6: do things that they that do.

975
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 3: You know what somebody should make fun of me for

976
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 3: in this episode is how many times I said clandestine?

977
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: Did you? Well?

978
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 3: I just felt really smart when I said so. I

979
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 3: think I just kept saying it. And I actually said

980
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: it yesterday in like casual conversation with someone, if you

981
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: They were like, what And I said clandestine just like secret,

982
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 3: and they were like, that word makes me uncomfortable.

983
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: But you just look square as should What are you hiding?

984
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 3: Maybe the last thing I want to talk about we

985
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 3: can continue to talking about. Certainly, something I wanted to

986
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 3: talk about was the Joe Scott interview. So for a

987
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 3: Bear Grease podcast and now going back to Jeff giving

988
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: us this one like all watered up in a little bundle.

989
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 3: We didn't know about Joe this Joe Scott interview, which

990
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 3: to me is so cool. Anytime that you can reach

991
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 3: back into history and actually hear someone that was there

992
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: in an interview format is really unique. It reminded me

993
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 3: of back in the late summer, we did a series

994
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: on the formation of the Buffalo National River, which was over.

995
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: Here in Arkansas.

996
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 3: And in the in the process of interviewing these people,

997
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 3: we'd we'd talked about this lady named Granny Henderson, and

998
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 3: I found out there was this long interview with Grannie

999
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 3: Henderson that essentially nobody had heard.

1000
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: I mean, somebody did, but it was very obscure like.

1001
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 3: And I was able to go into that interview and

1002
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 3: you could hear Grannie Henderson's voice, this woman born in

1003
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 3: the eighteen high hundreds, and hear her talking about her

1004
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 3: life and its super interesting.

1005
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: This was like that.

1006
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,479
Speaker 3: And so this Joe Scott interview, he was ninety seventy

1007
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 3: years old in the nineteen eighties.

1008
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: Bill Cunningham interviews him.

1009
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 3: When Bill's a young man, Bill's in his eighties now

1010
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: probably he's think so Bill would have been in his forties.

1011
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 3: I guess he interviews Joe Scott and yeah, that's that's el.

1012
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: Primo l primo stuff, when you get to hear from

1013
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: the guy. And it was a long interview.

1014
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 3: It was hard to go through and pick out which

1015
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 3: sections to use, but I mainly just wanted people to

1016
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 3: kind of hear his voice. And Joe became kind of

1017
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: like this focal point of Joe as a night rider

1018
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 3: and he was doing all this stuff.

1019
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: I just couldn't quite put it all in.

1020
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: I didn't want to villainize Joe either for being the

1021
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 3: last guy and just being willing to talk. But he

1022
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 3: said the only thing that he really ever did in

1023
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 3: one of the raids was like shoot his gun in

1024
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 3: the air, like he was just kind of there.

1025
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1026
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 3: Now he did insinuate that he was on some of

1027
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 3: the visits, but he didn't ever specifically say like I

1028
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 3: beat somebody. But if you think about it, an eighteen

1029
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 3: year old kid and they're just looking for warm bodies

1030
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 3: to kind of ride with them and just kind of

1031
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 3: be there, I have a feeling he didn't actually do much.

1032
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 3: He was just kind of present, kind of there. That

1033
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: was the insinuation I got because he never got super specific.

1034
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 3: But but you might, I mean at eighty seven years old,

1035
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 3: I mean you might not remember everything.

1036
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 5: But I think those are the things you remember when

1037
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 5: you're eighty seven. Yeah, like that kind of stuff, I

1038
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 5: think you remember it just like when you talk like

1039
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 5: war vets or whatever, like that's those are the things

1040
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 5: that are burned into your brain like you burn Because

1041
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 5: I think that was it hot Hoganville, Hope, he said

1042
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 5: he was there. Yeah, like, I mean that town burned down.

1043
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 5: You don't forget about burning down and down.

1044
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

1045
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 3: They specifically asked him, they said, what did you do it?

1046
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 3: Maybe Hopkinsville, And he said, oh, I didn't do nothing.

1047
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 3: I just rode around on my horse and shot my

1048
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 3: gun in the air.

1049
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: A couple of times.

1050
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 5: Your house is burning down, you probably don't take that

1051
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 5: viewpoint of those.

1052
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: But then again, you know, you wonder how truthful the

1053
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 3: guy was being.

1054
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: I mean, here he is.

1055
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 3: It seems so not innocent, but it seems so like

1056
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 3: like it just was inconsequential him at his age talking

1057
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 3: about it. It's not like they're going to send to

1058
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 3: prison or something. But he was very worried about that. Actually,

1059
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 3: you know, there were parts of the episode when he

1060
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 3: was like, maybe I shouldn't be talking.

1061
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: But interesting.

1062
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 8: View of this would be what would have happened back

1063
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 8: then had doctor Amos had not been there with his

1064
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 8: leadership skills, you know it probably he would have just

1065
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 8: floundered around and the same thing would have happened. It

1066
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 8: would just taken a different route, probably a better route,

1067
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 8: I don't know, probably a better route. Yeah, yeah, so

1068
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 8: the way to handle it, as you look back, would

1069
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 8: be through the courts.

1070
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 9: Hey, we got this big guy out here that's monkeying

1071
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 9: with us. Let's let's levelize the playing field. This isn't fair,

1072
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 9: you know. And they didn't have those tools to go to.

1073
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 9: The only tool they had was, yeah, in a vigilanti stuff.

1074
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 5: Well, because the courts, you ain't gonna win against a

1075
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 5: guy with two hundred million dollars. I mean, like that's

1076
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 5: the that's also part of the American experience.

1077
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: And when you don't even have money.

1078
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 5: To buy for your kids, you know, or the time,

1079
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 5: and you need to be working.

1080
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 8: And well, what they did was probably what they sort

1081
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 8: of had to do. I mean, they didn't have avenues

1082
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 8: like we have today. So it's just like you just

1083
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 8: fold up, fold your tents up, let them take advantage

1084
00:56:58,160 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 8: of you, or we're going to fight.

1085
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 4: It's hard to judge somebody from a position you've never

1086
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 4: been in. And I think that's that's part of what

1087
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 4: you know, Judge Cunningham was getting to when he says

1088
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 4: he I've sent people to the pen that I.

1089
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: Had empathy for.

1090
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 4: And you know, in our line of work, it's you

1091
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 4: see it every day too. I mean, I remember my

1092
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 4: dad telling me, you know, when I was a kid,

1093
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 4: that you know, in police work and in law enforcement,

1094
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 4: the vast majority of people that you're going to interact with,

1095
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 4: they got themselves caught up in something they never meant

1096
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 4: to get caught up in. And there's there's plenty of

1097
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 4: people that it's all they've ever known. Sometimes it's a

1098
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 4: lifestyle of all they've ever known, or like Cunningham said,

1099
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 4: you know, I knew the guy's dad. I knew his

1100
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 4: dad was abusing him his whole life. And you have

1101
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 4: empathy for people, and it doesn't make it right. They

1102
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 4: broke the law, but you're a human being, and that's

1103
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 4: that's what's going to happen, you know. And so I

1104
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 4: think it's it's hard to make a judgment on somebody

1105
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 4: for any kind of situation if you've never been in

1106
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,439
Speaker 4: it yourself. And that's something I you know, I think

1107
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 4: that's I think that's what this podcast does so well.

1108
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 4: And you guys did it with this story. And as

1109
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 4: a Kentuckian, I'm honored that you all did it. But

1110
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 4: it's you know, the beauty of this this deal that

1111
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 4: you all have going on here. Mans You make people think,

1112
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 4: and we are constantly in the today's world just find

1113
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 4: ourselves and echo chambers and never having to think critically.

1114
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 4: And you have to remember, man, life is just history

1115
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 4: is messy.

1116
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: Life is messy.

1117
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,479
Speaker 4: There is not a single thing out here that any

1118
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 4: of us, you know, in my opinions, there's been one

1119
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 4: perfect person walk this earth, and we put him on

1120
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 4: a tree, you know what I mean.

1121
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: And so.

1122
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 4: You know, I think it's just you guys do such

1123
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 4: a good job of that of causing your listeners to

1124
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 4: think about it a go, man, what how do you

1125
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 4: digest this story? And how do you see both sides

1126
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 4: of it and then come to your best.

1127
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 7: Well and to piggyback off that, not only do we

1128
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 7: not know what life was like in that time being

1129
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 7: a farmer who was getting taken advantage of by this trust,

1130
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 7: but much like Joe Scott, I can't tell you what

1131
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 7: I would have done if somebody would have came to

1132
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 7: my to my house, stuck a gun in my face

1133
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 7: and said, let's go yeah.

1134
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the best line from it.

1135
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, from that, from that point on, I'm probably like,

1136
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 7: let's go yeah, I mean, And you know, you think

1137
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 7: about the night Writers, and a lot of times the

1138
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 7: night Writers and the association will get put one in

1139
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 7: the same. But you had twenty five thousand members of

1140
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 7: an association and at most probably five hundred night writers,

1141
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 7: So you're talking two percent of this massive, you know,

1142
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 7: association that a lot of times will get tied in together.

1143
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 7: And as we heard later on, as they continued with

1144
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 7: the raids and then some of the beatings and stuff,

1145
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 7: it probably wasn't even association stuff that they do. So

1146
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 7: but you know, I've never had somebody point a gun

1147
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 7: at me and tell me to do something, but I

1148
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 7: can imagine that give me to react a little bit different.

1149
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly what Joe Scott's answer wasn't it. When

1150
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 3: they say he said why did you join the Night Riders?

1151
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 3: He gave such a great, pointed, clear answer. He said,

1152
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 3: what would you do if they took a gun in

1153
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 3: your face and told.

1154
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: You to go? You probably go, let's go where.

1155
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 5: But it's not just random people either, it's your neighbors

1156
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 5: or the holler yeah, you know, like it's if you

1157
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 5: say no, well you're going to be looking over your

1158
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 5: back for a long time. Right next to this, it

1159
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 5: is your community.

1160
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: Clear too.

1161
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 3: Why these guys weren't getting in trouble because you know,

1162
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 3: when I when we first got to that point in

1163
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 3: the podcast where we're talking about they couldn't prosecute these guys,

1164
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 3: Like in some world you'd kind of be like, well, why,

1165
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 3: how the heck could they not prosecute them? They're doing

1166
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 3: all this criminal activity, But oh gosh it, you would

1167
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 3: have been you'd been narking on your on, on your family,

1168
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:57,919
Speaker 3: on your neighbors, and man, part of the here's one

1169
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 3: thing that I thought about when like, what would I

1170
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 3: have done? I think in the right scenario, you could

1171
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: have just navigated yourself out of the situation and not

1172
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 3: been on either side. I mean, I don't know how,

1173
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 3: but I know in my life I do that a lot.

1174
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: But where would you?

1175
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 5: Where would you?

1176
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: No?

1177
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 3: But in a in a I don't know, I don't

1178
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 3: know the answer, but I just I just feel like

1179
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 3: you can, you could, you could, you could just like

1180
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 3: slide under the radar. I just don't know that I

1181
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 3: would have been the guy that had been coming to

1182
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 3: beat because I was making a big deal about selling

1183
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 3: to the to the to the Duke Trust. But also

1184
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, there's ways to do it like, there's

1185
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 3: there's there's there's social ways to not be a target.

1186
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 7: You know.

1187
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 6: I was thinking about too. I was thinking about too

1188
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 6: because Duke hadn't probably i mean likely had no knowledge

1189
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 6: of the details of what was going on there, and

1190
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 6: I had to think about, like what was causing them

1191
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 6: to drop price, you know, to start paying paying I mean,

1192
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 6: you must have had these regional buyers that were making

1193
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 6: on the fly decisions about what they were going to

1194
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 6: pay people, and they were the ones who were really

1195
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 6: beating up on them, you know, financially and it you know,

1196
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 6: a lot of that stuff was probably had to do

1197
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 6: with that middle management, you know what I mean, these

1198
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 6: guys that are how are we going to get the

1199
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 6: best price for this tobacco? And without this big oversight

1200
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 6: of the Duke, the Big Duke trust and so it's

1201
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 6: you have to be able to to see the small

1202
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 6: details of this. And this was their this was their

1203
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 6: best response was to create this Planner's Protection Association and

1204
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 6: to fight this what they what they perceived as greed.

1205
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 6: So you know, there's just so many, so many minute

1206
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 6: things that you just don't know about. To say who

1207
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 6: the good guys are bad guys I think that's what

1208
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 6: the title of the of the podcast bred lines Good

1209
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 6: Guys Versus Bad Guys, I think is really fitting because

1210
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 6: it's it is hard to know, you know what I mean.

1211
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 6: And I think that I think that bleeds over into

1212
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 6: a lot of the a lot of the the things

1213
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 6: that we deal with, even in modern times. You know,

1214
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 6: it's so easy to jump on a bandwagon and not

1215
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 6: know the details of a situation. And I think, you know,

1216
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 6: probably people in New York would have had they heard

1217
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 6: about this, they would have said, you know that you

1218
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 6: got these rebellious farmers down there just doing these horrible things,

1219
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 6: and then you've got these small, small town farmers saying,

1220
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 6: you know, we got we're getting taken advantage of. And

1221
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 6: I think it I think it has to cause people

1222
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 6: to stop and evaluate and to like try to learn more.

1223
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 6: You know, I think about political situations. I think about

1224
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 6: you know, how how things are perceived there. You can't

1225
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 6: just like you talked about echo chambers or talked about

1226
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 6: echo chambers, you can't just listen to an echo chamber.

1227
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 6: You have to really be on your guard for what

1228
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 6: you hear and what you believe.

1229
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 3: Let's play trivia. Yeah, we got We're gonna end with

1230
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 3: trivia here.

1231
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,439
Speaker 1: Does that sound good?

1232
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 3: You guys think you're all black patch expert? Let me

1233
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 3: why his hand out boards. I want to clarify what

1234
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 3: I said a minute ago. Basically, what I was saying

1235
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 3: was you don't have to pick. You don't have to

1236
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 3: be in every fight that's being fought.

1237
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1238
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, because when I said you can navigate around something,

1239
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 3: an old believer said, what that's what I mean. It's like,

1240
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 3: you don't have to you don't have to fight every fight.

1241
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 5: Why is the serpents harmless as doves?

1242
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go, there you go.

1243
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 3: All right, We're gonna play a little trivia. Josh has

1244
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 3: seven questions. The winner gets the panther lamp. Not true,

1245
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 3: not true, We're keeping that one.

1246
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 5: Everybody's wives just breathed a sigh of relief. You got

1247
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 5: one from me there.

1248
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: Yes, hey, I tell you what. Here's what I am

1249
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: gonna do.

1250
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 3: This is this is this is this, this is what we're

1251
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 3: doing on this this episode. The winner of this trivia,

1252
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 3: which I'm not playing. I'm just gonna be commentating. When's

1253
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 3: this U Moultrie trail camp?

1254
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 5: Oh wow, Silas, I'm trying buddy.

1255
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 3: Stakes are high, stakes are high, and I can I

1256
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 3: can probably even get you, like a subscription from Moultrie

1257
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 3: to to to be able to run this bad boy

1258
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 3: because this is a cell camera.

1259
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 5: Is Josh ellable?

1260
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: He's already got something.

1261
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, and Gary, that would be nepotism really.

1262
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: Down? Three?

1263
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, okay, So the Winter Winners getting a Moultrie

1264
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 3: Trail camp, all right, Josh?

1265
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 6: Okay, First for we got some questions that you that

1266
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 6: everybody should know. We got a couple that you really

1267
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 6: had to be on your game to catch.

1268
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 3: Could you use the one that I said was going

1269
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 3: to be on here?

1270
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 1: Were you paying attention? I forgot about it.

1271
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 3: I knew, I knew it. I knew when I said

1272
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 3: it wouldn't be on here. You can ask that I

1273
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 3: said on that, so I said this will be on trivia.

1274
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 3: Go ahead, carry on, we'll move through this prequel.

1275
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 5: Okay, big question? Who was the founder of the American

1276
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 5: tobacco company?

1277
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: Mmm?

1278
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 3: Don't be uh, don't be misled by Okay, go ahead,

1279
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 3: Christian lady, do you.

1280
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: Think people got that joke?

1281
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 3: And I appreciate it, Guys, I don't know that like

1282
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 3: my twenty year old son or nineteen year old son

1283
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 3: would have got it though they don't know what Christian like.

1284
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 6: There is no Okay, Terrell Spencer, Duke Duke, James Buck Duke,

1285
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 6: James Buck Duke.

1286
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: Duke. I put Washington, Duke.

1287
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 5: It is Washington.

1288
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 3: That's got to be the answer. Y'all are right, but

1289
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 3: Washington Duke.

1290
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 5: I think the more will back this out, the better

1291
01:06:59,240 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 5: for me.

1292
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 3: That's that's what I was gonna That's what I was

1293
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 3: trying to elude to my preamble. It's got to be specific.

1294
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 3: I don't even did we even say that on the

1295
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 3: podcast though?

1296
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: Did we say I? Actually, I don't know, should join

1297
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: a union?

1298
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 5: Okay?

1299
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 6: Second question, everyone should get this one. Who is the

1300
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 6: who was known as the leader of the night writers?

1301
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: This is come on that ship.

1302
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 5: Everyone should get this one. Okay, everybody should get a gimme.

1303
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 6: Okay, Drew was starting with you, David Amos, That is correct,

1304
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 6: David Amos, pH d, it's actually m D.

1305
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: Do I still get the points? Yes, Gary, Sorry, I

1306
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: just couldn't pull it up. Man.

1307
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 5: Okay, zero famous Amos. You think that's the same guy

1308
01:07:58,160 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 5: as a cookie guy?

1309
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 6: Probably no, there there's actually a story about that. I

1310
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 6: know the cookies are addictive though the office. Okay, here's

1311
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 6: a here's a bit of an obscure question that was

1312
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 6: mentioned in there. Okay, who was known as the Moses

1313
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 6: of the black Patch? That that one's some terrible games.

1314
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 6: I just need that one's a bit obscure.

1315
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. He was only mentioned once. It's a

1316
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: tough question.

1317
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 6: We've got a couple of ringers in here, Gary, Okay,

1318
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 6: Drew Felix Felix Ewing, Felix Felix Ewing, Gary.

1319
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: Seinfeld Seinfeld.

1320
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 6: Felix Ewing is correct? Okay, people back in the black

1321
01:08:54,360 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 6: Patch or they're like what here's another question, Spence, you

1322
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 6: might remember this one.

1323
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 5: Thanks.

1324
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 6: What was the term given to those who would scrape

1325
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 6: plant beds as an intimidation?

1326
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: Oh, Spencer, get that?

1327
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 5: I don't wow remember the first word? No, I ain't

1328
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 5: cheating a man of integrity. Okay, Gary, we're gonna start

1329
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 5: with you.

1330
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:31,839
Speaker 6: O hands hands okay, close, Jeff, hotteers, hotets, hototers, hotels.

1331
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 5: I think it's like a hostess.

1332
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: You buy them in the gas, some kind of icing

1333
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: on top of Yeah. Can I ask my question? Yes? Yeah?

1334
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 6: Okay, So wait, how many, Jeff you got you've gotten,

1335
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 6: he's gotten all that it has been three or four?

1336
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: Three? Three?

1337
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 5: That's four actually?

1338
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:54,759
Speaker 1: Okay?

1339
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 5: So four three, two and a half two and a half, okay.

1340
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:04,720
Speaker 1: Okay, okay. So my question is what was the original

1341
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: name of the night Writers? There there was?

1342
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 3: They were first known as the X but then they

1343
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 3: later became known as the night Writers.

1344
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 5: People scribbling here every time? See every time you say

1345
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 5: night writer, I think of the eighties? Car What was

1346
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 5: it that you could ask that? What was the nauld

1347
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 5: have been the bonus question? Mm hmm, Sorry, Silas, Who was.

1348
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: The star of night Writer? Tom all right? Already? Who was?

1349
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 5: Yeah? You think of magnum p that was it? Okay, Drew,

1350
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 5: I didn't know that was the question.

1351
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: He's from Princeton though.

1352
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 7: Prince Born born. I'm not from Jeff's.

1353
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:52,719
Speaker 5: Jeff's.

1354
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 1: This is a judgment called Opossum Hunters.

1355
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 7: I don't know when we when did we? Did we

1356
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 7: just all come together and decide that, oh wasn't going

1357
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 7: in front of possum an It's too hard to say.

1358
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: I mean it was.

1359
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 3: It was a conference in eighteen eighty seven in Nashville, Tennessee. Gary,

1360
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 3: did you get anything powesome possum crew. The possum crew.

1361
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 3: You should get some points for that.

1362
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: Okay.

1363
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 6: Question number six, why did Joe Scott want to tell

1364
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 6: his story so late in life?

1365
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: What was the motivation?

1366
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 5: Why was he willing?

1367
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: Was he willing? That's a better answer.

1368
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:32,719
Speaker 5: Story so late in life?

1369
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: I just mentioned a couple of times.

1370
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:48,520
Speaker 5: Okay, Spence, statute of limitations.

1371
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: That might be the right.

1372
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 5: Drew everyone else was dead?

1373
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: Mmmm, same thing I put. Yep, everyone else was dead.

1374
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: That's all that is correct.

1375
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Okay, next question, we need to have another

1376
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:18,759
Speaker 5: soils based podcast. Where did the mayor of Hopkinsville seek

1377
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 5: refuge during the raid?

1378
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1379
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 5: From the God fearing men?

1380
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, be specific. We're looking for a specific answer. Okay, Jeff,

1381
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 6: we're going to go with you.

1382
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: Coal shoot of the Baptist Church. Oh wow, that was specific.

1383
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: Baptist Church, Methodist.

1384
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 7: They's been to the Baptist Church down the coal shoot.

1385
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: Man.

1386
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 6: These guys are good, the Baptist the coal shoot down

1387
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 6: the coal shoot of the I think Baptist Church.

1388
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 5: Baptist Church, absolutely not the Methodist Church.

1389
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 4: He was.

1390
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: Anybody different than us was just the same. Any denomination

1391
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: I would have I would have said, that same thing.

1392
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: I've got nothing against the methods. Okay, lives, easy shot,

1393
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: right in the kidney.

1394
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 6: Our last question, what was the reported net worth of

1395
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 6: James B. Duke in nineteen oh seven, Spence, I like

1396
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 6: the confidence that you wrote that down with.

1397
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 5: I'm really I'm really calipari in this stuff right now.

1398
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 5: I'm right in the back of the conference man looking up.

1399
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 6: Okay, Spence will start with you. Two hundred million, two

1400
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 6: hundred million, two hundred million. They all got it, And

1401
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 6: for our final question, we have all right answers, Well

1402
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 6: done everybody, Yes, so excellent.

1403
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 5: 's our trivia.

1404
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 7: So Clay said, you know, two hundred million was an

1405
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 7: enormous amount of wealth back then, that's an enormous amount of.

1406
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 5: Wealth now, yeah, no doubt.

1407
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: I mean no doubt.

1408
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 7: I wouldn't mind two hundred million right now.

1409
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: I would imagine that would be like a billionaire today.

1410
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 1: He was, yeah, yeah, Okay.

1411
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 3: Closing down here the final little section of the podcast,

1412
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 3: we learned that James Buck Duke buys buys the name

1413
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 3: of Duke University, which probably, like when I read that,

1414
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 3: I had a tendency to be like, oh, come on,

1415
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 3: rich guyd there's probably a bigger story perhaps, or I

1416
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 3: wonder how.

1417
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 1: The people at Duke feel about Like, is that is

1418
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: that y'all might know? Is that a negative thing? Or

1419
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:57,680
Speaker 1: is that part of their history? It's funny. I think,

1420
01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: you know, he touches on it.

1421
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 5: Are you a Duke fan? I thought you were.

1422
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 1: I'm a little Yeah. We can throw Duke under the bus.

1423
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't care what you did, man.

1424
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:07,560
Speaker 5: Knowing from North Carolina.

1425
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 4: Over there, but it's you know, it's interesting he touches

1426
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 4: on it in the book that like when Duke first

1427
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 4: approached them about giving them this money and want to

1428
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 4: rename it, you know, it seems like it was a

1429
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 4: fairly devout like Methodist college that was.

1430
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 5: Called Trinity College.

1431
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there it seemed like there was some administration

1432
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 1: that was like, you know, this guy's slinging cigarettes. So

1433
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't think we can't take any part of this.

1434
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 4: And then I think it's just kind of funny, Like

1435
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 4: six million dollars I think the Lord gives does.

1436
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 5: He not like has called nullification?

1437
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: That's right.

1438
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 4: I think I think the Lord can overlook this one.

1439
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 4: How many more souls are we going to save? This

1440
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 4: is losing from here. But so it was kind of

1441
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,919
Speaker 4: funny the way he touches on that, but that seemed

1442
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 4: to be his brother was was much more involved with

1443
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,560
Speaker 4: that school and his dad and his dad right, and

1444
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 4: they both were fairly devout Methodists. I think I think

1445
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:13,559
Speaker 4: that was why it was troubling to them as they

1446
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:14,799
Speaker 4: watched Buck kind.

1447
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: Of take off with this, you know, with the corporation.

1448
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 5: And so it's interesting because you'd said that his dad said,

1449
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,600
Speaker 5: the two things I don't understand are the Trinity and

1450
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 5: my son and then his son bias Trinity College.

1451
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just kind of like a full circle, full circle,

1452
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: it is, man, it's well.

1453
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 4: And then the way the book ends with in the

1454
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 4: way you ended the podcast, like, I mean, Amos's son

1455
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 4: goes on to be the first medical uh you know,

1456
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 4: professor medical professor for the like, it's unbelievable. It's just

1457
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:56,679
Speaker 4: such a crazy story with such unique, you know, characters. Yeah,

1458
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:57,640
Speaker 4: it's it's incredible.

1459
01:16:58,040 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: So who won? Jeff one?

1460
01:16:59,479 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 5: Jeff one?

1461
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: Did you did you miss one?

1462
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 7: I missed the first one? James Buck instead of oh well, patriarch.

1463
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 3: There, congratulations on this. Uh so, Jeff, you're gonna get

1464
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 3: a Moultrie edge too. Camera do you do you deer hunt.

1465
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:17,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this will be useful to absolutely and I

1466
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 4: think I can hook you up with three on it

1467
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:20,680
Speaker 4: though it's an edge two.

1468
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,600
Speaker 3: Well this was this was actually my personal camera that

1469
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 3: and so the three is uh this is the third one.

1470
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 3: But uh but uh yeah, they're they're really good.

1471
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: That's awesome, man. I appreciate it.

1472
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 5: Undercover work too.

1473
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is going to revolution. He's going to take

1474
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 3: that back to the FBI and they're gonna be.

1475
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 5: Like, what's that going to get?

1476
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 1: Like we've never had Yeah for about three times a pressure.

1477
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 1: This would be good.

1478
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for coming. Man came all

1479
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 3: the way from Kentucky. Much appreciated.

1480
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 7: Thanks for having us.

1481
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah really and and thanks for the suggestion on the

1482
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: podcast man. Man, Like I said, I'm honored you guys.

1483
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 4: I was not expecting, first off, even to get a reply,

1484
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 4: let alone you guys run with it.

1485
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: But I'm glad you did. And it's been great getting

1486
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:11,840
Speaker 1: to work with you guys and meet you guys through this.

1487
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 5: Man.

1488
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: It's awesome. And keep it up, man, people need it. Yep,

1489
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: thanks a lot. Guys. Keep the wild places wild because

1490
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: that's where the bears love. There's no criminals there and

1491
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: FBI is not there casually, Chick