WEBVTT - You Woke Little Dwarf

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio of the

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<v Speaker 1>George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

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<v Speaker 2>Arm Strong and get Katie and now he Armstrong and Getty.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 4>I just saw this from Peter Baker of the New

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<v Speaker 4>York Times. He's at the Dick Cheney funeral. We've been

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<v Speaker 4>we're talking about that last hour, all the people that

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<v Speaker 4>are there, Peter Baker, New York Times Rights. If anybody

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<v Speaker 4>needed more evidence of how politics have changed in America,

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<v Speaker 4>Rachel Maddow is at Dick Cheney's funeral. Wow, because he's

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<v Speaker 4>now he's now kind of seen as like the grown

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<v Speaker 4>up Republican Party as opposed to the evil, crazy Trump Party.

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<v Speaker 1>Because the Cheney family was anti Trump. Yes, yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>all right? Oh my god, why that took the wind

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<v Speaker 1>right out of my sales? Speaking of things that exhausted me,

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<v Speaker 1>the Epstein Document Release Act of twenty twenty five or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever they're calling it to pass both houses. The President

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<v Speaker 1>said he'll sign it. I think he did sign it.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's the problem. No one will ever be satisfied.

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<v Speaker 1>There are enormous loopholes for things that should not be

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<v Speaker 1>and probably will not be released, at least not now.

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<v Speaker 2>To an extent that again, we'll leave everybody unhappy.

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<v Speaker 4>I think, well, there, Like I said, there's going to

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<v Speaker 4>be tremendous political pressure on everyone if there's a whole

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<v Speaker 4>bunch of stuff redacted to unredacted, and I think it'll

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<v Speaker 4>be enough that there'll be pressure on the President to

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<v Speaker 4>tell Pambondi to tell the Justice Department to get more

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<v Speaker 4>stuff out there.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, what.

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<v Speaker 4>Passed what for twenty three to one in the Senate

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<v Speaker 4>didn't even bother to argue about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's so overwhelming.

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<v Speaker 4>Eighty five percent of Americans or something like that want

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<v Speaker 4>it all to come out. There's gonna be so much

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<v Speaker 4>political pressure to have as little hidden as possible. So

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<v Speaker 4>it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I

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<v Speaker 4>just read this from one of my favorite thinkers. The

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<v Speaker 4>Epstein files release sets a horrible precedent as cowardly politicians

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<v Speaker 4>abandoned long standing norms regarding privacy and the presumption of

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<v Speaker 4>innocence to the mob. And they've got a picture here

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<v Speaker 4>of Larry Summers. Yeah, Larry Summers driven out of his

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<v Speaker 4>final job. He'd quit everything, the former president at Harvard,

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<v Speaker 4>but was going to hang on to his teaching position

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<v Speaker 4>at Harvard.

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<v Speaker 1>You know why, because he's an expert in the area.

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<v Speaker 4>He was teaching, one of the best experts on planet

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<v Speaker 4>Earth in what he was teaching at Harvard. And we

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<v Speaker 4>found out something from many years ago that was very untoward.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's definitely bad behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>But that shouldn't have come out. He didn't commit a crime.

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<v Speaker 2>He wasn't He's not accused of a crime. He didn't.

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<v Speaker 4>He just tangentially related to an investigation. And that could

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<v Speaker 4>happen over and over and over again, just on this

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<v Speaker 4>Epstein thing. And if it becomes the norm that we

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<v Speaker 4>release all this stuff with every investigation, well then forget it.

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<v Speaker 2>Any of us could get caught up in something.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It reminds me metaphorically if you've got a really, really

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<v Speaker 1>good reason to murder somebody, Once you start murdering people,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, it's you know, Katie bar the door.

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<v Speaker 1>There are plenty of good reasons to want to know

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<v Speaker 1>are there more victims that are there more perpetrators you know,

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<v Speaker 1>sex trafficking, sexual exploiting underage girls and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, the government, the cops, local, state, federal.

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<v Speaker 2>FBI, whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>They have the right literally to go through your underwear drawer,

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<v Speaker 1>paw through all of your phone records and texts and emails,

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<v Speaker 1>all your financial records and everything, and the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>everybody's so pristine and has never done anything at all

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<v Speaker 1>embarrassing or untoward or immoral or at a momentary lapse

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<v Speaker 1>of whatever. And therefore the authorities ought to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to just broadcast that to whomever they want, any time

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<v Speaker 1>they want. I mean, that's anathema to our system. Well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I was this bothers me, and I understand the desire

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<v Speaker 1>to look into it.

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<v Speaker 2>I really do.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I was going to say, because I can hear

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<v Speaker 4>people saying, yeah, well I don't care, because I don't.

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<v Speaker 4>I wasn't emailing Jeffrey Epstein about how to get an

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<v Speaker 4>underling in bed, which Larry Summers was, and that's why

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<v Speaker 4>he's lost all of his jobs. Now he's completely he's

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<v Speaker 4>got out of public life. But that's not the way

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<v Speaker 4>we're Are you going to tell me you got nothing

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<v Speaker 4>in your past, nothing at any at any point in

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<v Speaker 4>your past, professionally, personally, romantically, anything that if it were

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<v Speaker 4>acts as criminal, and that if it were exposed it

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<v Speaker 4>wouldn't look bad without explanation.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course you do. Everybody does, and.

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<v Speaker 4>It could be part of an investigation where you're not

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<v Speaker 4>You didn't come in a crime, You have nothing to

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<v Speaker 4>do with the investigation at all. You just got emailed

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<v Speaker 4>the person once, or you know, you hired them once

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<v Speaker 4>to do a jobs here in their tax records or whatever.

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<v Speaker 4>The hell do you want all that sort of stuff

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<v Speaker 4>to come out every time there's an investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you do not well.

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<v Speaker 1>And we were talking more specifically the other day about

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<v Speaker 1>how both of us have been with people that seem

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<v Speaker 1>like they are super fun to hang out with, they

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<v Speaker 1>really like to party, and then as you got to

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<v Speaker 1>know them a little better, you realized, oh, they're going

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<v Speaker 1>well beyond my definition of a good party into something

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be part of.

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<v Speaker 2>But you could absolutely be tied.

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<v Speaker 1>To that person he attended one of his several of

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<v Speaker 1>his parties. You of course had no idea that they

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<v Speaker 1>were doing cocaine with twelve year olds or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>But the minute you got a.

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<v Speaker 1>Hint that, wow, they're doing really bad stuff that I

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<v Speaker 1>have no interest in, you don't go back again. But

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<v Speaker 1>you could easily be tired with that information, and again

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<v Speaker 1>I get we're talking about exploitation of underage girls, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's absolutely the stench of the powerful protect each other.

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<v Speaker 2>But oh man, this is this is a line.

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<v Speaker 1>If we cross it here and again, there are tons

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<v Speaker 1>of documents that are not going to come out for

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<v Speaker 1>various reasons. I want if we cross the line, I

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<v Speaker 1>hope it's just this. Once I walked home from a

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<v Speaker 1>party one time.

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<v Speaker 4>I thought it was just a regular whoopee party, like

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<v Speaker 4>a drink of beer and everything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what we're doing, and that's the way it started.

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<v Speaker 4>And then this guy was brought in that everybody was

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<v Speaker 4>talking about these people I knew and using They called

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<v Speaker 4>him the doctor, and he was coming over and he

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<v Speaker 4>got there and everybody's happy, and then all these crazy

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<v Speaker 4>things came out and it became a different party than

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<v Speaker 4>I want to be at.

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<v Speaker 2>And I left.

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<v Speaker 1>I just I will like sex toys or wild animals

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<v Speaker 1>or dru drugs.

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<v Speaker 4>I walked home and it was not long after that

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<v Speaker 4>that that guy is probably still in prison. He got

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<v Speaker 4>busted big at that kind of a party. The police

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<v Speaker 4>had been keeping an eye on him, and they all

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<v Speaker 4>came in and swarmed in.

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<v Speaker 1>I was always glad that I decided, Yeah, this is

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<v Speaker 1>not what I came here for, and I just walked home.

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<v Speaker 2>I staggered home.

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<v Speaker 4>That's like the it's five minutes to the bar and

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<v Speaker 4>fifteen minutes home. Why the difference is staggering? I staggered

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<v Speaker 4>home from that party, glad I did. There's lots of

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<v Speaker 4>people got caught up in that one total.

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<v Speaker 1>Change topic speaking of good judgment and bad mikey Manual

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<v Speaker 1>of Fox News here story just breaking.

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<v Speaker 2>I think in the last couple of days cliped fifty Michael.

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<v Speaker 5>Some prominent national security Democrats are preaching anti fascism while

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<v Speaker 5>urging US military personnel to defive President Trump.

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<v Speaker 6>Right now, the threats to our constitution aren't just coming

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<v Speaker 6>from Rod but.

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<v Speaker 2>From right here at home. Our laws are clear.

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<v Speaker 1>You can refuse illegal orders.

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<v Speaker 6>You can refuse illegal orders.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, So what is that more specific? Next clip Michael.

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<v Speaker 5>White House Deputy chief of Staff Stephen Miller calling this

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<v Speaker 5>unbecoming of their office.

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<v Speaker 7>There is nothing graver that you could possibly say. It

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<v Speaker 7>encouraging urging directing members of the armed forces of the

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<v Speaker 7>United States are the clandestine services of the United States

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<v Speaker 7>to defy their president, defy their chain of command.

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<v Speaker 4>This has been burbling around for a couple of weeks.

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<v Speaker 4>Now I guess it's now out in the open more.

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<v Speaker 4>There've been opinion pieces and that sort of stuff urging. Well,

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<v Speaker 4>first it started with the people that are blasting the

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<v Speaker 4>boats down there by Venezuela. Are they guilty of a crime?

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<v Speaker 4>If it turns out the Supreme Court says the president

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<v Speaker 4>doesn't have the right to do this, doesn't have the

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<v Speaker 4>authorization to do this, Are they guilty of crime? Then

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<v Speaker 4>there was a ruling that no, they're not guilty of

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<v Speaker 4>a crime. But then there was the push out there

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<v Speaker 4>that you should these orders, it's a crime. Well, then

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<v Speaker 4>the obvious conversation started at how far down the road

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<v Speaker 4>are you going to go of people get to ignore

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<v Speaker 4>orders because they're afraid they might not be legal. And

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<v Speaker 4>what am I supposed to do if I'm a don't know,

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<v Speaker 4>what's a rank above private but slightly higher than that,

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<v Speaker 4>But what am I supposed to hire? I'm told to

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<v Speaker 4>do something, And then I got to get a lawyer,

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<v Speaker 4>have them look it over and write me a paper,

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<v Speaker 4>and then maybe run it by another lawyer to make

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<v Speaker 4>sure I'm on the right side of whatever I'm about

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<v Speaker 4>to do.

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<v Speaker 2>It cares to me.

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<v Speaker 1>This operation is going to destroy private property and I'd

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<v Speaker 1>rather not be prosecuted for you know, vandalism or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>So I got to have my attorney look look at

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<v Speaker 1>this first. Thank you, sergeant. Yeah, no kidding. So here's

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<v Speaker 1>a Republican and Democrat commenting. First, this is Pat Fallon

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<v Speaker 1>of Texas, the Republican.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just as broad. You don't follow illegal orders. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>guess what.

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<v Speaker 6>As a former active duty member of the US military,

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<v Speaker 6>that's one of the first things they teach you is

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<v Speaker 6>that you don't follow illegal orders.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're being redundant as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, worth Worth pointing that out. That is the rule

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<v Speaker 4>constitutionally and in the military. You do not have to

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<v Speaker 4>fall in illegal order. But it has limits, obviously, or

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<v Speaker 4>the whole thing would fall apart. You couldn't You couldn't

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<v Speaker 4>run the military at all.

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<v Speaker 1>He flies and steals things out of golf carts. He's

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<v Speaker 1>representative Jason Crowe, the Democrat of Colorado.

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<v Speaker 6>As a military officer, what I think is important is

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<v Speaker 6>we train people, we give them information, We prepare people

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<v Speaker 6>for challenges coming down the pike. That is what I

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<v Speaker 6>did as a commander in the military. That's what I'm

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<v Speaker 6>doing now, as we are standing by our troops, we

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<v Speaker 6>are reminding them of their obligation.

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<v Speaker 1>The Interestingly enough, nobody cited anything specific, and they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>say which service members might have received or have received

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<v Speaker 1>illegal orders.

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<v Speaker 2>It just the general.

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<v Speaker 1>The crows seem to be calling his name said call

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<v Speaker 1>that's one of my favorite.

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<v Speaker 2>Tjope, hilarious.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that this has been really hot in

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<v Speaker 1>your left wing circles for the last week or so.

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<v Speaker 1>Should be defying orders from an illegal president?

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<v Speaker 2>Got this note from Henry.

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<v Speaker 1>Democrats encouraged American servicemen to disobey presidential orders if they

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<v Speaker 1>felt they were legal, but refused to give an example

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<v Speaker 1>of such an order from Trump. So grand standing from

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<v Speaker 1>the left, who risk nothing from encouraging others to violate

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<v Speaker 1>their sworn oaths. I hope no young soldier, sailor, or

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<v Speaker 1>airman gets deceived by these scoundrels to commit a foolish

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<v Speaker 1>decision that could ruin their life. Oh, the Left would

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<v Speaker 1>love their martyrdom and the media would make them celebrities,

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<v Speaker 1>But when it came to paying the price, these demagogues

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<v Speaker 1>would hide behind their lawyers that's true. Pity the young

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<v Speaker 1>sergeant who goes the way of uh, you know, Chelsea Manning.

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<v Speaker 2>Or you know, yeah, person like that. We like telling

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<v Speaker 2>you about simply safe. Man.

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<v Speaker 4>If you want security for your home and your family,

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<v Speaker 4>It's the only home security you can actually call real

0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.880
<v Speaker 4>security because simply Safe keeps watch outside your home and

0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.640
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0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.360
<v Speaker 4>lurking around out there. That's when simply Safe goes into action,

0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.000
<v Speaker 4>not after they break into your home.

0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the AI cameras alert simply saves live agents. They

0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 1>immediately then let the perpetrator know they're on camera, and

0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.880
<v Speaker 1>if they don't believe, the police will be dispatched. Other

0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.679
<v Speaker 1>security systems have outdoor cameras too, but they rely on

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.319
<v Speaker 1>you getting the alert and looking at the evidence and

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.560
<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out meanwhile you're in a staff meeting

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Simply Safe does it all for you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like having a private security guard stationed outside your home,

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<v Speaker 2>There's no safe like simply Safe. Um.

0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 4>There's a little talk about how the TSA is going

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.120
<v Speaker 4>to be handling the airports maybe over Thanksgiving, bigause travel

0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.760
<v Speaker 4>week of the year coming up next week, and we

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.800
<v Speaker 4>ought to check in on that story, among other things.

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:20.439
<v Speaker 2>Stay with us.

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:22.199
<v Speaker 3>Strong.

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.280
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just looking at this. We got a clip.

0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 4>Man screams when he runs into the neighborhood goat. Let's

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 4>hear what that sounds like.

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Smokey, here is a neighborhood favorite.

0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 2>He's scared the female out of me. I mean, look

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 2>at them. Just looked at the window, make sure he

0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.680
<v Speaker 2>was okay. And my mom running outside with a knife.

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>But she's so scared of animals. Go trying to hump us.

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Goat trying to hump us? Is that what he said?

0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Is the end? Mom ran outside with a knife. I'm

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 1>gonna stab the goat man. Card, Please hand it over

0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.960
<v Speaker 1>feel you overreacted to a goat. The goat we're talking

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.240
<v Speaker 1>about now, if it were a substantial goat and it

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.840
<v Speaker 1>were indeed trying to end I quote humph Us, that

0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>would be alarming.

0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 2>It would.

0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 8>I have a feeling this was like a pigmy goat.

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 4>Probably in a city area, they're almost always your little

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 4>dwarf goats.

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Pigmy goes in there. Yeah, probably working sweater.

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he jumped on his car and then started screaming.

0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 1>That's what goats do, man, they jump on top of

0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 1>every vehicle you got. I think the guy jumped in

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the guy jump in the car. He jumped on streaming goats,

0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.400
<v Speaker 1>screaming guy because of a goat. Well, you can't get

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:46.840
<v Speaker 1>away from a goat that way. It'll just jump on

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.600
<v Speaker 1>top of the car with you. Hey, what are you doing?

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Cool up here in nice view?

0:14:50.720 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Nice view? Mind? If I help you. That's some square

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 2>he's got. It's like goes. It scared the female out

0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 2>of him.

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 4>I'm trying to think if there's a situation where I'd

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 4>ever scream like that.

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm fortunate that well.

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I've had some bad things happen or startling things happen,

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 1>and I've never screamed I don't think.

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't I.

0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Or something like many times in my life, but I've

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 1>never gone ah like that, like I have a like

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>I got a vagina. Wow, that was unnecessary. Yeah, tell

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>me more, Jack, I'll step back and let the lady

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>have some.

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Just go ahead, Jack, keep going with that.

0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:46.400
<v Speaker 4>Though, I think in general, screaming is more the female

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 4>persuasion than the male persuasion on the whole, on the whole,

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:54.720
<v Speaker 4>not obviously working with Larry Summers right, disgusting misogie.

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>On average, I think it's more often women than men

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 2>who scream.

0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 1>When I crested a small hill and him face to

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 1>face with a mountain lion a number of years ago, no,

0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 1>I yelled, holy y yeah, yeah, and the mountain lion

0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 1>turned and looked at me with a look at its

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 1>face like holy yes are you?

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 2>That's Joe Getty from Armstrong and Geddy. Do you love

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 2>your shows? Do you have you ever screamed Katie been

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>startled and screamed No, I don't think so.

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 8>I can think of two times I've been really startled.

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 8>My first reaction was to swing at whatever it was, So.

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:36.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you don't picture me as a screamer. You picture

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.800
<v Speaker 4>me as more of a swing on whatever it is.

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, kick it in the face.

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty much went in doubt.

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, kick it in the face. Do you have any

0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 2>control over that? No?

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:49.880
<v Speaker 9>No.

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 8>My one of one example, it was a dear friend

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.120
<v Speaker 8>of mine and I was standing outside and he came

0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 8>up behind me and thought it would be a good

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.600
<v Speaker 8>idea to pinch the back of my neck and scream

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 8>really loud when he did it, and I came around

0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.680
<v Speaker 8>with an elbow and followed through and just clocked him

0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 8>and I didn't realize it was him until laughter.

0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.080
<v Speaker 4>So so you're your reaction to fright, you don't think

0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 4>you have any control over Maybe you don't.

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 1>No, except through training, But it'd take a lot of

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.600
<v Speaker 1>military training, police training, that sort of thing. And it

0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.119
<v Speaker 1>could be there's some people who just they for whatever

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.240
<v Speaker 1>anthropological reason, they just can't.

0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.359
<v Speaker 4>Or a lot of experiences. Maybe you're not trained, but

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 4>it just happens to you a lot. I'll bet you

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 4>get numbed to it if you you know, I imagine

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.960
<v Speaker 4>the first time a bomb hit your apartment complex in Kiev,

0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.720
<v Speaker 4>you might scream, but the tenth time, it's like here,

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:39.200
<v Speaker 4>we go again.

0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 1>M hmm, yeah, speaking of which, there's a peace plan

0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.080
<v Speaker 1>in the works that will never work for a single second,

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 1>but Trump is trying anyway.

0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.639
<v Speaker 4>I got a question about the ken Burns American Revolution documentary.

0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 4>I only watched like three minutes, and I thought, that's weird.

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.000
<v Speaker 4>I've never heard that. It's already turned into a controversy

0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.240
<v Speaker 4>the first three minutes. I think I'll see if Hanson

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 4>could grabbed the audio because I want to discuss this.

0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 4>I'd never heard it before, and I'll see if Joe's

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 4>ever heard it before.

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Armstrong and Getty.

0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 4>So we're going to talk about this Ken Burns documentary,

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 4>the American Revolution, which I watched like five minutes of

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.000
<v Speaker 4>It's twelve hours long. I've seen five minutes of it,

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 4>and already in the first five minutes, I was like, hm,

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.320
<v Speaker 4>I never heard that before. I'll have to look into that,

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.360
<v Speaker 4>and it's kind of erupted into a controversy already.

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.199
<v Speaker 4>I'm from South Dakota, so I'm well aware of how

0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.760
<v Speaker 4>the Indians got host I mean, I've been hearing that

0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.120
<v Speaker 4>my whole life and reading about it my whole life.

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 4>And I'm also called Kansas home and I think that's

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.919
<v Speaker 4>where the last Indian battle was in American history, but uh,

0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:46.560
<v Speaker 4>yeah it was.

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know. I just maybe it's.

0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.280
<v Speaker 4>Because I'm a white guy, or just because I think, yeah,

0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 4>that's the history of the world. And one team wins

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.760
<v Speaker 4>and one team loses, and I don't know, what do

0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:57.400
<v Speaker 4>you want me to do?

0:18:58.359 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 6>I don't know.

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, like we could go over the history of

0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 1>the part of like you Germany slash Austria, a lot

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 1>of my family's from, and how many warrior tribes have

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.760
<v Speaker 1>held it, taken it, slaughtered, somebody else gotten slaughtered, blah

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 1>blah blah. So I just it's it's unquestionably true, but

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 1>I just know. So what is my question? I mean,

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.399
<v Speaker 1>some of the the dishonesty and double dealing by the

0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 1>government was shameful back in the day.

0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:25.200
<v Speaker 2>But again, what am I going to do?

0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, it's so horrifying, but probably very similar, if

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 4>not much less brutal than what those Indian tribes were

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 4>doing to other Indian tribes when they decided they wanted

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.720
<v Speaker 4>their land. What's that Summer Moon book you read, Empire

0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.680
<v Speaker 4>the Summer Moon. Oh my god, is that a good book?

0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.119
<v Speaker 2>But brutal right, very not for the kids. Get time story.

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.160
<v Speaker 4>God, that first chapter, I that's funny. It pops into

0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.280
<v Speaker 4>my head every now and then, like it gives me

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 4>a shudder. That's how bad it was. Any horrific torture.

0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:58.040
<v Speaker 4>That's all you need to know.

0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.359
<v Speaker 4>So this is from the very like first couple of minutes.

0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.040
<v Speaker 4>This is a couple of minutes long, two minutes long.

0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:12.160
<v Speaker 4>Stick with it if you will, because we'll discuss afterwards.

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.480
<v Speaker 4>I don't feel guilty about playing it since it's PBS

0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 4>and my tax Paramonney.

0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Paid for it, at least partially. Anyway. So it's ken Burns.

0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.679
<v Speaker 4>It's about the American Revolution, and I knew it was

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.320
<v Speaker 4>going to have more how the Native Americans got hosed

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 4>than you usually get out of.

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Founding Father stuff.

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.919
<v Speaker 1>I thought, yeah, that's probably fine, you know.

0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, here's how it goes.

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.520
<v Speaker 9>This is the very ow we know our lands are

0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.239
<v Speaker 9>now become more valuable. The white people think we do

0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:49.800
<v Speaker 9>not know their value, but we are sensible that the

0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 9>land is everlasting. Knastego, spokesman for the Six Nations.

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:04.160
<v Speaker 3>Long before thirteen British colonies made themselves into the United States,

0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:13.200
<v Speaker 3>the Six Nations of the Iroquois confederacy Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Tuscarora, Oneida,

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.399
<v Speaker 3>and Mohawk had created a union of their own that

0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.879
<v Speaker 3>they called the Hoda Nashone, a democracy that had flourished

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:22.920
<v Speaker 3>for centuries.

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 2>We heartily recommend union.

0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.919
<v Speaker 9>We are a powerful confederacy, and by your observing the

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 9>same methods our wise forefathers have taken, you will acquire

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:42.920
<v Speaker 9>fresh strength and power. Therefore, whatever befalls you never fall

0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 9>out one with another.

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 3>In the spring of seventeen fifty four, the celebrated scientist

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 3>and writer Benjamin Franklin proposed that the British colonies form

0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 3>a similar union.

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:03.480
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so the implication being there that the Indians had

0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 4>a democracy going for centuries.

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 2>That's what they said a couple hundred.

0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Years before we got here, and we Benjamin Frankin took

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:17.560
<v Speaker 4>our kind of cue from them on starting the similar thing.

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:19.720
<v Speaker 2>I'd never heard that before.

0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Specifically a union of separate entities.

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.800
<v Speaker 4>I'd never heard that before, and it made me go, hm,

0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:28.679
<v Speaker 4>have to look into that anyway. So it's kind of

0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.479
<v Speaker 4>turned into a controversy a little bit, with a variety

0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 4>of my favorite thinkers arguing on Twitter, which is where

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.040
<v Speaker 4>you argue if you're a part of the intelligence. Less

0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 4>than three minutes into the Ken Burns documentary on the

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.960
<v Speaker 4>American Revolution, we get one, white people are bad. Two

0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.879
<v Speaker 4>Native Americans had a centuries old democracy before British Collins arrived,

0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.639
<v Speaker 4>and three Benjamin Franklin copied the Native American Blueprint. A

0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:53.119
<v Speaker 4>different thinker with a different point of view said, the

0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:55.680
<v Speaker 4>League of the Iroquois being a framework for the Constitution

0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 4>is pretty basic middle high school history textbook stuff.

0:22:58.960 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Sorry you didn't pay attention.

0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.280
<v Speaker 4>I hadn't heard that, and I've done a lot of

0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.679
<v Speaker 4>reading about this over my life that we took our

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.399
<v Speaker 4>cue from the Indians on the whole democracy thing, it

0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:08.879
<v Speaker 4>was a model for the Constitution.

0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:10.200
<v Speaker 2>And then Charles C. W.

0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 4>Cook, who we both like, from the National Review, said

0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:17.200
<v Speaker 4>it's also pretty basic nonsense. So I would like to

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.920
<v Speaker 4>get Tim Sanderfer involved in this because I had never

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:20.359
<v Speaker 4>heard that.

0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:23.200
<v Speaker 2>And to lead with that, I.

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 4>Mean, the opening of the Twelve Hours is, you know,

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.080
<v Speaker 4>it really came up with the idea from the Indians

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 4>who were already here and doing a democracy, and everything

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.840
<v Speaker 4>was just hunky dory, and then we know killed them

0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.399
<v Speaker 4>all off and took their idea, is that what the

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:37.199
<v Speaker 4>point of this is?

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Wow? Wow? Is that a reach? That's what I sa

0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.080
<v Speaker 2>several different ways. That's what I thought.

0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 4>It just seemed like such a reach, And to lead

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.440
<v Speaker 4>with it makes me think. I was really looking forward

0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 4>to this because he's such a great documentary filmmaker. I

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:52.560
<v Speaker 4>was really looking forward to it. And I'm sure there's

0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:54.160
<v Speaker 4>a whole bunch of stuff in there that I'm gonna love.

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.040
<v Speaker 4>But if you lead with that, how much? Oh, this

0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:58.119
<v Speaker 4>is gonna be hard to watch.

0:23:59.080 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.840
<v Speaker 1>The subtitle is how British colonists imitated the Indians and

0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:06.199
<v Speaker 1>built a country and kicked the Indians off their country?

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, great, all right?

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Had you ever heard that before that Benjamin Franklin got

0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 4>his idea that he pitched to the colonists from the Indians.

0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:20.399
<v Speaker 2>No, no, it doesn't ring a bell.

0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, the fact that there were democratic systems quote

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:28.520
<v Speaker 1>unquote among the tribes I'd known, but like as that was,

0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:33.320
<v Speaker 1>that was portrayed as a direct inspiration a b C.

0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:37.880
<v Speaker 1>As opposed to you know, the Roman and Greek republics

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:41.480
<v Speaker 1>and the you know, the various philosophers and John Locke

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 1>and all sorts of you know, I could.

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Go on and on John Stuart mill.

0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:50.359
<v Speaker 1>Later, ah, but to be no, that was there was

0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 1>a way to direct a line to draw, and that's

0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:56.280
<v Speaker 1>an odd place to begin. That is not what the

0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the documentary is not about the receding of the Indian tribes.

0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm willing to be corrected, but I've done scrunching

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.879
<v Speaker 4>up my nose at the idea of a multi century

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 4>long successful democracy among the Indian nations.

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I just don't buy that.

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 1>It could have been a confederation and there could have

0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 1>been some sort of voting, but it's not like the

0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:23.720
<v Speaker 1>individual tribal members probably with regular wars to the death

0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>in which they you know, redraw the boundaries and come

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>to some sort of truth for a little while, would

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:31.119
<v Speaker 1>be my guess. Yeah, it's more likely that, you know,

0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:33.960
<v Speaker 1>the leaders of the various tribes got together and said, hey,

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:35.600
<v Speaker 1>all right, four to three, we're gonna go to war

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:40.440
<v Speaker 1>with the Sioux or whatever. But yeah, yeah, that's a stretch.

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I tell you what if that's the beginning of the

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 1>very beginning, that's the first very minutes collect I know,

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:53.879
<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to enjoy this. Why is everybody so

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:59.119
<v Speaker 1>not everybody, But why are why is a certain crowd

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:02.719
<v Speaker 1>so re existent to just tell him the story of

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:03.880
<v Speaker 1>what happened.

0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Because they getting over from a.

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Ken Burns would get the hell beat out of

0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:15.360
<v Speaker 1>him by the people he holds dear the left if

0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 1>he were just to tell the story of the formation

0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 1>of the most successful country on.

0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Earth that change the world forever.

0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:23.639
<v Speaker 2>They did have that in the run up.

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 4>They did have that in the run up, Like the

0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 4>previews before the thing started about how this is the

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.120
<v Speaker 4>most important revolution in world history and this kicked off,

0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:35.919
<v Speaker 4>you know, an entirely different era from mankind, and all

0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:38.440
<v Speaker 4>the importance of it was not left out. And I've

0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:41.919
<v Speaker 4>heard him doing interviews where he talks about that. He doesn't,

0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:45.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean, he's definitely not leaning into the America as

0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:48.840
<v Speaker 4>a force for evil. It was founded on slavery. The

0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:50.960
<v Speaker 4>world would have been better off if we never happened.

0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:56.080
<v Speaker 4>Fang that the you know garbage Hannah Jones, whatever her

0:26:56.160 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 4>name is, pitches Howard's in filth. Bet he wouldn't have

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:02.600
<v Speaker 4>been able to get the funding to even do the

0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:05.639
<v Speaker 4>damn thing if he hadn't leaned this hard into We

0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 4>just copied the Indians really, ain't it.

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 2>They'd already done it. Why didn't we just let them

0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:13.399
<v Speaker 2>keep it? All right?

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.800
<v Speaker 4>Eh, I'll watch a little more of it out before

0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:19.960
<v Speaker 4>I can get if that's what happened in the first

0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 4>one hundred and eighty seconds, damn it. It was like

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:28.640
<v Speaker 4>there have been a couple of shows that have been

0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 4>fairly highly recommended, including one in particular, Slow Horses, which

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:38.000
<v Speaker 4>is a really good British drama with what's his face?

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:41.880
<v Speaker 1>The actor, you know, the guy with two arms? Anyway,

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:44.280
<v Speaker 1>what is it, Gary oldman?

0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:51.520
<v Speaker 2>You know it? And it became Rudy Calhoun.

0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:57.800
<v Speaker 1>And the plot was there'd been an Islamic extremist bombing

0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:02.600
<v Speaker 1>in London. But then the twist was quickly early that no,

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:09.679
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't Islamic terrists. It was white nationalists, racists trying

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.360
<v Speaker 1>to fake a Muslim attack to discredit them because there's

0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.800
<v Speaker 1>such bigots. I was like, I'm out, and it's set

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:20.840
<v Speaker 1>in London. We'll test out an enormous problem with the

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Islamization of the great cities of Britain, much like most

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 1>of Europe, having let in rampant immigration from North Africa

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:29.680
<v Speaker 1>for years and years and years. I was like, okay,

0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:33.240
<v Speaker 1>come on, and I tell you what, Ken, you screw up.

0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Your woke little dwarf and you die your hair.

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 1>What there's no reason to go through him and shot

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:40.880
<v Speaker 1>him in this very studio.

0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:43.880
<v Speaker 4>He dies his air. We saw it up clothes. I'm

0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:46.280
<v Speaker 4>not denying it's true. He's like eighty years old and

0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:50.520
<v Speaker 4>he protects thirty five. It's not salient, is my objection.

0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 4>Well that's probably true.

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Oh, you're gonna make it about okay. I don't know.

0:28:57.240 --> 0:28:59.239
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he feels like he has to buy off his

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:02.080
<v Speaker 1>crowd so then he can get to the story of

0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 1>the revolution.

0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I'd love to ask him that question. Dude, why would

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:08.720
<v Speaker 1>you start with that? I mean, even if they had

0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>a functioning democracy in you know that we modern people

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:15.840
<v Speaker 1>would recognize as a quote.

0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:17.840
<v Speaker 4>Unquote demonscription out of my face. And it hasn't been

0:29:17.840 --> 0:29:20.360
<v Speaker 4>covered very well. I'll tell you that that may have.

0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Been one of many inspirations and examples that the Enlightenment

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:29.040
<v Speaker 1>generation studied. Tact like it's abc. Like I said before,

0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:31.440
<v Speaker 1>it's just not true. The hair on your head doesn't

0:29:31.440 --> 0:29:34.600
<v Speaker 1>match your beard at tall All right, then I'm done.

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:35.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm through here.

0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I've tried.

0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Any thoughts on this text line four one five two

0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 1>nine five KFTC.

0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 3>In the spring of seventeen fifty four, the celebrated scientist

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:56.600
<v Speaker 3>and writer Benjamin Franklin proposed that the British colonies form

0:29:56.760 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 3>a similar union.

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:04.200
<v Speaker 4>So that's from ken Burn's new twelve hour documentary The

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:06.640
<v Speaker 4>American Revolution, which I was really really looking forward to,

0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:10.440
<v Speaker 4>and three minutes into it, they open with the Indian

0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:13.240
<v Speaker 4>tribes having had a democracy for several hundred years and

0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 4>it worked fine, and Benjamin Franklin thought, man, that's a

0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 4>good idea.

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:16.880
<v Speaker 2>We should try that here.

0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 4>And it took that queue from the Indians to try

0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:22.600
<v Speaker 4>to create a democracy ourselves and.

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Put at them off the land, which did their form

0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:26.800
<v Speaker 1>of government, which was news to me. I had never

0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:29.240
<v Speaker 1>heard that angle before, and I thought, and now it's

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of turned into an online argument.

0:30:31.960 --> 0:30:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, Jack, I'd forgotten.

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I've spent my life studying this and I totally didn't

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.680
<v Speaker 1>just do an AI search on the question, and I'm

0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:42.560
<v Speaker 1>not reading that. I'm just recalling my schooling and reading.

0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:47.320
<v Speaker 1>So this is chat GPT. It's probably worth mentioning that

0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:50.560
<v Speaker 1>a new university study of mental health literature found that

0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 1>chat GPT fabricated fabricated roughly one in five academic citation.

0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Hey, I've got a theory on that.

0:30:57.320 --> 0:30:59.920
<v Speaker 1>By the way, the whole hallucination thing.

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:03.640
<v Speaker 4>Since AI is learning from us, I wonder if it's

0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:07.640
<v Speaker 4>just that, since we found out years ago, like half

0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 4>of papers and studies can't be replicated, maybe it's just

0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 4>figured out that's the way humans do it.

0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:17.760
<v Speaker 2>They make so AI has figured nobody checks anyway.

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:19.960
<v Speaker 4>People make stuff up all the time. They're like they're

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 4>called university professors.

0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah maybe so anyway, Yes, many North American natives had

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 1>sophisticated systems of governance that qualify as functioning democracies, often

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:35.720
<v Speaker 1>more participatory and consensual than European models of the time.

0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, that's because they're mostly monarchies. But anyway, they

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 1>varied enormously by region nation. But to the point of

0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the one that ken Burns was citing, the Iroquois Confederacy,

0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:51.280
<v Speaker 1>which indeed hung together for hundreds of years, there were

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:56.040
<v Speaker 1>six Indian nations united under the Great Law of Peace.

0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Here is this so called democracy. They had a grand

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:04.080
<v Speaker 1>end Council of fifty civil chiefs known as sachems, that

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:09.320
<v Speaker 1>were chosen interestingly by clan mothers, so the women, the

0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 1>senior women of the tribes, would choose their senators. In effect,

0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:19.520
<v Speaker 1>decisions required unanimity, not simple majority. Satams could be removed

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:21.920
<v Speaker 1>by the clan mothers if they failed to serve the people.

0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:25.160
<v Speaker 1>And there was a separation of war chiefs and peace chiefs,

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:27.400
<v Speaker 1>which was viewed.

0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:30.280
<v Speaker 2>As something like civilian control of the military.

0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:36.440
<v Speaker 1>But the idea that fifty emissaries would get together it

0:32:36.480 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 1>could be described as an oligarchy as easily as a democracy.

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:45.120
<v Speaker 1>I think these fifty chiefs got together and had a vote,

0:32:45.240 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 1>and it had to be unanimous over thousands of people,

0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:49.640
<v Speaker 1>thousands and thousands of people.

0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.120
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't call that a democracy exactly. Well, so that's

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:54.760
<v Speaker 2>one thing that's just confederation.

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh and Ben Franklin, John Adams and other founders explicitly

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 1>referenced the Confederacy as an example of the sort of

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 1>union that was possible.

0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 6>Right.

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 4>But well, anybody who's into this stuff has done enough

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:10.800
<v Speaker 4>reading on all the founding fathers that they were super into,

0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:14.000
<v Speaker 4>as you already pointed out what the Greeks and the

0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:16.640
<v Speaker 4>Romans had done, and writers like John Locke and all

0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:19.840
<v Speaker 4>that sort of stuff. I don't remember regular references to

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:22.840
<v Speaker 4>what the Indian tribes have pulled off well, right, And

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 4>it's easy to.

0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Imagine John Adams or Ben Franklin saying, I mean, for instance,

0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:31.440
<v Speaker 1>right here you witnessed that these tribes came together and

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:33.320
<v Speaker 1>confederated and work out their differences.

0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:34.080
<v Speaker 2>So it's possible.

0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:37.320
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, they studied the Greek and Roman systems in

0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 1>particular in their strengths and weaknesses exhaustively. So again the

0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 1>idea that hey, wait a minute, look at those what

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.440
<v Speaker 1>there's Indians are doing. I got an idea, and that's

0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 1>what launched the American Revolution.

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:49.959
<v Speaker 2>That's just silly, ken.

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 4>So each of those representatives that would go in and vote,

0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:56.440
<v Speaker 4>were they taking a vote back at home with their

0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:58.680
<v Speaker 4>tribe or were they just decided what was best for them?

0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh, they were just you know, they were probably reflecting

0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:04.719
<v Speaker 1>the desires of the tribe.

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:08.319
<v Speaker 4>Maybe they could be booted knowing human nature. Maybe maybe not.

0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 1>If the old gals of the tribe didn't think they

0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:12.880
<v Speaker 1>were doing a good job, they could say, no, you

0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:16.680
<v Speaker 1>don't get to be a satiem anymore. But yeah, to

0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:18.960
<v Speaker 1>call that a democracy is a hell of a stretch.

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 4>And then the other stretch to say that's what gave

0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:26.440
<v Speaker 4>Ben Franklin the idea for forming a democracy in the colonies.

0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:30.040
<v Speaker 1>It's trying way too hard, it really is. Yeah, Ken,

0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:31.840
<v Speaker 1>you're guilty of trying way.

0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:34.680
<v Speaker 4>To art in the first three minutes of the show.

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 4>You're a little more excusable if that had come in

0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:40.719
<v Speaker 4>an hour eight. And by the way, the Indians had

0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:44.240
<v Speaker 4>done something similar that the Founding Fathers had fired among

0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:47.480
<v Speaker 4>the structural examples they followed happened to be. Now that

0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 4>would be interesting, sure, but to act like that was

0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:53.319
<v Speaker 4>the uh, you know, what's the Latin phrase? That's the

0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:58.000
<v Speaker 4>moment of genesis, that is the seed of the American system.

0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not. Hmmm, I'll watch more of it. See

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:07.080
<v Speaker 2>what I think. Democracy is a terrible idea.

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:10.680
<v Speaker 4>Speaking of history, I was told the new Netflix series

0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 4>about the assassination of James Garfield is really really good,

0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:15.920
<v Speaker 4>like really good with big time actors and stuff.

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:17.640
<v Speaker 2>You was that just last night? No?

0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 1>No, I hadn't, but a friend who's very very sophisticated

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:22.640
<v Speaker 1>recommended it quite strongly.

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I'll have to check that out. Maybe I'll get to

0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.000
<v Speaker 2>that before I get to the American Revolution.

0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh what I was it's starting to say was democracies

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:31.280
<v Speaker 1>are a terrible idea just because the.

0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Mob rule is terrifying. It's horrible.

0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:38.040
<v Speaker 1>You have to have, you know, sober representatives who have

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:43.040
<v Speaker 1>allegedly the good of the people in their hearts. I

0:35:43.080 --> 0:35:45.200
<v Speaker 1>think we've gotten a little off track with that, I'd

0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:50.600
<v Speaker 1>say anyway, Okay, well I'll check it out and report back.

0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:54.040
<v Speaker 1>So we do twenty hours of this show every single week.

0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:55.719
<v Speaker 1>There are lots of segments or lots of hours. Some

0:35:55.760 --> 0:35:57.880
<v Speaker 1>of them are so good you want to hear multiple

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:00.600
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