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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and CNN's Harry Enton says jd Vance

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Speaker 1: is most likely to be the GOP nominee in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty eight.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today. Substacks

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Speaker 2: owned Ken Klippenstein stops by to talk to us about

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Speaker 2: the time the FBI showed up at his door. Then

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Speaker 2: we'll talk to the Brennan Center's own Michael Waldman about

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Speaker 2: the Brennan Center's report on how Trump is trying to

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Speaker 2: rig the midterms with a number of insane proposals.

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Speaker 3: But first the news Somali Trump's team is picking a

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Speaker 3: fight with a big boy.

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Speaker 4: I don't think they should mess with it because he's

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Speaker 4: way smarter than them.

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Speaker 2: He's smarter, he's richer, and he's tougher, and he's also

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Speaker 2: just gonna win Governor Pritzker. Donald Trump very mad anyone

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Speaker 2: who dare disobey his insane cryptocracy. Basically, the White House

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Speaker 2: had a project to keep invasive fish out of the

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Speaker 2: Great Lakes. Installed Why Donald Trump cares about invasive fish?

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Speaker 2: I mean, my man doesn't believe climate change is real.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the point is he's using something to

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Speaker 2: blame pritz Gart.

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Speaker 3: When I heard about this, I thought this was like

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Speaker 3: the plot of the South Park episode the other night,

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Speaker 3: like like an invasive fish, Like, what the hell is

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Speaker 3: going on here?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think it's important to take a

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Speaker 2: minute here to talk about South Park.

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Speaker 4: I watched last night. Was amazing.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe I think South Park is amazing in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, but it was amazing.

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Speaker 4: They did a great job.

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Speaker 2: South Park is the new CNN. I think we should

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Speaker 2: all agree that the White House Press Corps dreams of

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Speaker 2: doing as good a job of summing up this White

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Speaker 2: House as South Park. Thank you Trey and Matt for

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Speaker 2: doing what the mainstream media cannot narrating our downfall into kryptocracy.

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Speaker 3: Personally, I never thought i'd be spiling while dogs get shot.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you're giving it away. And by the way, let

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Speaker 2: me just say, if you don't think that Matt and

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Speaker 2: Trey are going to end up in Seacott or Alligator Alcatraz,

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Speaker 2: you are wrong, because Christy Nome has Actually, I think

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Speaker 2: she responded to the episode numerous times.

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Speaker 3: In fact, as did mister j Dvantz pretending he's hit

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Speaker 3: on the joke when he very much is not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you really see how much politics is

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Speaker 2: downstream of culture and how the culture does in fact dictate,

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Speaker 2: and South Park is a great example of that. They

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Speaker 2: have really just nailed it in a way that is

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Speaker 2: important and also accurate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you make a great point, like too much the

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Speaker 3: character it doesn't resemble the actual person charactered, and this

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Speaker 3: really is like just dead on showing what.

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Speaker 4: They are like.

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Speaker 2: It's actually weirdly more accurate because there's so much anxiety

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Speaker 2: about all of the lawsuits and ways in which different

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Speaker 2: groups have been targeted, and that anxiety has really worked

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Speaker 2: to silence a lot of us. So to watch Matt

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Speaker 2: and Trey just go after it, I mean, Bravo team.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of that, there's actually been some really interesting pushbacks

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Speaker 3: from journalists this week going much harder on politicians. This

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Speaker 3: one you flagged for me, I think is really really

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Speaker 3: great with.

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Speaker 2: You, Nancy Mace, that was really that was really great.

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Speaker 3: But this is Joe Scarborough versus Mike Waller, one of

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Speaker 3: the biggest lying liars there is in our congressional body,

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Speaker 3: which is really saying something.

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Speaker 4: Let me play it for you.

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Speaker 6: Well, respectfully, Mike. The Congressional Budget Office, which obviously is

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Speaker 6: part of the institution where you serve, says that it

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Speaker 6: should be about nine hundred billion to one trillion dollars

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Speaker 6: in Medicaid cuts. If you look at the hospitals in

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Speaker 6: your own district, Modi forty Nayak Hospital is already saying

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Speaker 6: because of that vote, because of these cuts, they're going

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Speaker 6: to have to cut back services, They're going to have

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Speaker 6: to cut staff, they're going to have to cut care.

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Speaker 6: Same thing with Westchester Hospital. Hospitals across your district are

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Speaker 6: going to have to cut services and care and staff

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Speaker 6: members and budgets because of your vote and because of

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Speaker 6: this bill that passes. That's what they're saying. It's not

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Speaker 6: some left wing focus. Well, I'm just telling you what

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Speaker 6: they what they've said. Uh.

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Speaker 7: And so what they're what you're parroting, what they're parenting

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Speaker 7: is the same talking points being put out by the state.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 8: And you one to know their business matter.

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Speaker 6: You know, you know their business better than they know

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Speaker 6: their business. Conferenceman, you can keep talking if you want to,

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Speaker 6: But are you saying that they know you know their business?

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Speaker 8: You know doctor's business.

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Speaker 6: You know hospital administrator's business better than they know their

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Speaker 6: own business. Is that what you're telling us here.

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Speaker 7: No, Joe, if you'd stop putting words in my mouth

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Speaker 7: and let me answer the.

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Speaker 2: Question, awesome, Yeah, awesome, awesome, awesome.

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Speaker 3: More of that, especially because he's one of the main

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Speaker 3: people who knows that the journalists won't push background, so

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Speaker 3: he whis his ass off. He is one of the

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Speaker 3: worst in the business at it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that is such an incredible piece of

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Speaker 2: pushing back. And also you see like they just don't

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Speaker 2: have an answer, and it's really why we have to

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Speaker 2: when you're interviewing these people, you have to do it

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Speaker 2: so molly.

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Speaker 3: As we know, Democrats have fled Texas to not allow

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Speaker 3: quorum and you know who's big Matt, Texas Governor Greg ABBITTT.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, they're threatening a lot to do a lot

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Speaker 2: of stupid crap. But the reality is breaking quorum is

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Speaker 2: not breaking the law. This is a sort of civil

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Speaker 2: Texas and not an illegal, illegal thing. And despite the

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Speaker 2: fact that John Cornyn called in for the FBI and

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Speaker 2: Cash is making noise to make noise, this is not right,

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Speaker 2: like they are representing their district and in fact, Trump

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Speaker 2: one fifty six percent of the votes in Texas in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, which means that redistricting would in fact

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Speaker 2: make it so that Republicans controlled I don't know one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent of the seats.

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Speaker 4: Hm, it's not a representative of democracy.

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Speaker 2: I think what Democrats are doing here is really good

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Speaker 2: and really smart, and I also think that they should

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Speaker 2: keep it going, and I don't think they should go back.

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Speaker 2: There's some talk that maybe a Paxton an Abbott will

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Speaker 2: try and call another special session, but you know, they

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Speaker 2: could just stay. Like, there is no reason that those

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Speaker 2: Democrats have to go back. I mean, obviously it sucks

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Speaker 2: for them not to be at home, but like this

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Speaker 2: matters more. This is like they're morally correct, they're politically

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Speaker 2: on the right side of history. And the more that

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Speaker 2: this builds, the more attention it gets, the better served

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Speaker 2: everyone who is on this side of democracy is these

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Speaker 2: Texas state reps are doing God's work and they need

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Speaker 2: to keep doing it, and we need to keep telling

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Speaker 2: them they're doing the right thing, because like this is

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Speaker 2: undermining our democracy in a big, big way. Kenklippenstein is

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Speaker 2: the author of the substack of the same name. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to fast politics.

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Speaker 5: Ken, Hey, go to be back with you.

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Speaker 2: I was saying before this that I feel like you're

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Speaker 2: the troublemaker I dream of being, and you are getting

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Speaker 2: into you'll excuse the cliche, here some good trouble. So

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Speaker 2: you have run a foul of the cash Patel FBI,

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Speaker 2: and I would love for you to start with this

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Speaker 2: story because it's amazing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you're talking about the nihilistic, violent extremist story.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would love you to start with when they

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Speaker 2: visited you, Like, I feel like there's a there's a

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Speaker 2: long character r about car. Yeah, start with how the

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Speaker 2: FBI came to recognize you.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So the JD Vance vetting documents called the dossier.

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Speaker 5: I feel like that elevates it a little bit higher

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Speaker 5: than it should, because really what it was was the

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Speaker 5: Trump campaigns just looking at different potential candidates for VP

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Speaker 5: prior to when they picked Senator then Senator Vance and

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Speaker 5: just listing out his liabilities and so you know, when

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Speaker 5: I had this described me it ultimately sent to me

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Speaker 5: by it was hacked by the Ran government and said

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Speaker 5: I said that in the story so we could know yep,

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Speaker 5: and that's what precipitated the FBI visit because I thought, well,

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Speaker 5: you know, back during Clinton they'd published this stuff, and

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Speaker 5: in this case, I look at it and there's no

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Speaker 5: question that it's factual. If there was any question that

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Speaker 5: it was factual, I would approach it differently. But it's

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Speaker 5: all just open source stuff that you can go and verify.

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Speaker 5: So I would, you know, I would feel bad just

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Speaker 5: putting out like say, for instance, the Steele dossier has

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Speaker 5: all these sensational claims that you can't really vet. So

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Speaker 5: it's like I would feel bad post something like that.

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Speaker 5: But like in the case of just open stories stuff

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Speaker 5: on like his votes, on his comments on Trump in

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Speaker 5: the past, just like explicitly political stuff. So I thought, well,

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Speaker 5: why shouldn't this be out there as long as you

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Speaker 5: explain to people the providence and let them come to

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Speaker 5: their own conclusion so that they're not seeing that, you know,

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Speaker 5: like the Uranians put this out there, they obviously have

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Speaker 5: their set of reasons for doing so, you know, make

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Speaker 5: of that what you will. And so that's what I did.

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Speaker 5: And about two weeks later, I got a visit from

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Speaker 5: a pencil neck, very young FBI special agent who looked

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Speaker 5: like he might have tripped on his himbilical cord on

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Speaker 5: the way here, because he was just so such a youngster,

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Speaker 5: a nice guy, and he he introduced himself, you know,

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Speaker 5: counter intelligence officer, blah blah blah. And so he's he

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Speaker 5: reads me a written statement that he kind of opens

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Speaker 5: up from his pocket. It's all very robotic and sort

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Speaker 5: of stiff, and he's even sort of admitting. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: this is a little weird. I don't think the fbis

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Speaker 5: necessarily should be always interacting with the media like this.

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Speaker 5: But you know, I got sent here by Washington, so

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Speaker 5: I got to read you the statement. So he says,

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Speaker 5: you were the recipient of an Iranian government and then

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Speaker 5: I kind off I said, yeah, I said that the story.

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Speaker 5: He goes, you did I said, yeah, did you read it?

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Speaker 5: He says no, he said when did you publish it?

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Speaker 5: And I'm thinking to myself, this guy didn't even read

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Speaker 5: the thing he's visiting to brief me on.

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Speaker 2: So you just read the headline. I feel like this

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Speaker 2: is a great example of someone just re reading the

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Speaker 2: headline exactly.

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Speaker 5: So he says, how long would you publish it? I said, ah,

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Speaker 5: about two weeks ago, And I joked I was like,

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Speaker 5: I thought you guys were going to consumer because I

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Speaker 5: knew there would be a risk of something like this

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Speaker 5: happening because of the politics involved. And he says, he says,

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Speaker 5: two weeks that's pretty fast for the federal government, and

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Speaker 5: so we're laughing about it. So the whole thing had

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Speaker 5: this kind of kaugh Cask quality to it where he

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Speaker 5: knew it was absurd. I knew it was absurd. He

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Speaker 5: knew I knew it was absurd. So anyways, and then

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Speaker 5: he leaves, Fortunately nothing happens, and then I got a

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Speaker 5: second visit when I published the Manifesto of the Israel

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Speaker 5: Embassy shooter in Washington several weeks ago, not to glorify him,

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Speaker 5: and I very explicitly in the story say this is

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Speaker 5: a terrible thing to have happened. And it wasn't a

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Speaker 5: positive story. I talk about his Yeah.

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Speaker 2: How do you get that that was leaked t L Yes, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: go on.

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Speaker 5: So, so you know, in the story, I describe some

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Speaker 5: of his personal problems and like kind of awful things

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Speaker 5: he did to his friends. Like, I don't think anyone

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Speaker 5: could look at that and say, this person who's glorifying

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Speaker 5: what happened. I'm trying to tell what happens, that we

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Speaker 5: understand what led up to this moment, and hopefully you

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Speaker 5: can prevent the next one. So any case, I write

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Speaker 5: that story, put it out there, the response is pretty positive.

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Speaker 5: I thought it was going to be more angry, and

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Speaker 5: so there wasn't much backlash until the FBI visit literally

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Speaker 5: I think it was the next day, and this time

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Speaker 5: it was much more aggressive than the first time. It

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Speaker 5: was two older special agents that start saying, how did

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Speaker 5: you get this? Why do you have this? And it's like,

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Speaker 5: you know, I can't tell them who I got it from,

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Speaker 5: but you know, you can guess that after something like

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Speaker 5: this happens, this stuff is people are, you know, sending

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Speaker 5: it around and so it's like pretty straightfward explanation. But

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Speaker 5: D had this whole theory that, oh, did you have

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Speaker 5: fore knowledge? I didn't have four knowledge of it. I

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Speaker 5: found out the words like everyone else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that wouldn't make any sense. I guess that's the

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Speaker 2: only button they can press on that. But people, really,

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Speaker 2: I mean releasing a manifesto, I mean there's a precedent

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Speaker 2: for that too, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. To me, it's not about do you publish

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Speaker 5: or now, it's how do you publish it? What kind

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Speaker 5: of context do you include?

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Speaker 4: Are you?

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Speaker 5: Are you like it's a legitimate question, I ask, like,

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Speaker 5: don't glorify it. But there's all kinds of ways you

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Speaker 5: can talk about something. You can talk about it from

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Speaker 5: the perspective of are there other people have these attitudes

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Speaker 5: or something like this might happen? Are the things we

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Speaker 5: can do to prevent or to kind of rebut these

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Speaker 5: belief systems that lead people to do something like this,

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Speaker 5: and so all of that I think is like a

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Speaker 5: more healthy response to it, rather than sticking your head

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Speaker 5: in the sand and being like, we're not going to

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Speaker 5: talk about this because it's bad thing, and if people

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Speaker 5: see it, they're just gonna, like the masuring candidate, just

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Speaker 5: stand up and carry out order. It's like, people don't

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Speaker 5: work that way. I have a higher respect for the

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Speaker 5: public than evidently the FBI does.

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Speaker 2: So what about talk to us about this? Nihil is this? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Talk to us about this?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: A third next chapter of this story. Yeah, So they

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Speaker 5: have a new threat category the FBI that I first

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Speaker 5: reported based on court documents that I found. I saw

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Speaker 5: this phrases like wait, I've never seen this before. I

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Speaker 5: pay very close attention to The FBI has all kinds

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Speaker 5: of different designations for threat actors. This is a completely

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Speaker 5: new and nihilistic violent extremist. So I look it up

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Speaker 5: and start talking to some special agent. I have some

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Speaker 5: friends at FBI. I don't want to give the impression

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Speaker 5: that across the board there were good people in all

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Speaker 5: sorts of agencies, including that one, right, And so I

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Speaker 5: asked them about it, and they basically tell me, oh,

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Speaker 5: this is the new thing from Washington. Basically it's going

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Speaker 5: to shift attention away from the white supremacist groups and

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Speaker 5: the January sixth style stuff that they were focused on

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Speaker 5: under the previous administration, and that carries with it. It's

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Speaker 5: a cold on a second, you just did this and

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Speaker 5: there's no public debate about like that. Were like, first

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Speaker 5: of all, what even is that? And I'll get into

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Speaker 5: that in a second. A second, is it okay to

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Speaker 5: let this replace and supplant these other categories that they've

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Speaker 5: been using for years and years? And is this going

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Speaker 5: to mean that there's a politicized component to how they're

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Speaker 5: going after these things? And so if you look at

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Speaker 5: the definition, the definition is consistent. They're like they believe

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Speaker 5: nothing and so I start looking through and there's some

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Speaker 5: stomach turning cases. I don't want to minimize how awful

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Speaker 5: it is some of the groups that they're going after

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Speaker 5: what they do, but to call them nihilist just erases

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Speaker 5: their politics. In some cases they're neo Nazis. That's not nihilists,

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Speaker 5: that's a belief system.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but let me just push back on that. Isn't

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Speaker 2: it good that they're still going after neo Nazis?

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Speaker 5: Oh definitely. I'm not saying that they shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Just like I was worried that they had stopped doing

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Speaker 2: that stuff because they were like, these are our guys.

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Speaker 5: My concern isn't that they're going after people committing crimes.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely do that, particularly neo Nazis. My problem is that

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Speaker 5: when you designate it something, then at the end of

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Speaker 5: the year, in their own internal data and what they

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Speaker 5: brief to Congress and how what informs their priorities going forward,

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Speaker 5: they're going to say, ooh, there was an increase in

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Speaker 5: Nihilsic violent extremists. And what they're going to see also

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Speaker 5: is suddenly, oh, look at that Neo Nazi extremism went

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Speaker 5: down because you've reclassified it under a different category. That's

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Speaker 5: my concern is it's not It doesn't seem to me

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Speaker 5: to be the appropriate category for what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Right no question. I mean, that's for sure true. So

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Speaker 2: I would love you to sort of talk to me

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Speaker 2: about what you kind of think the national security landscape

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Speaker 2: looks like at this moment, because you have Cash Batal

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Speaker 2: and Dan Bongino at the FBI. You have, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you just have so many, so much weirdness happening there.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering if you could, yeah, talk us through what

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Speaker 2: you think it looks, what these agencies look like right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of ironic because Trump is trying to relitigate

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Speaker 5: somebody having a decade ago Russia Gate and talking about

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Speaker 5: the declassification of some of these records, which I'm not

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Speaker 5: necessarily against, but it's like so long ago. And the

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Speaker 5: biggest irony here is he's talking about how politicized that

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Speaker 5: that whole thing was, which I in part can can

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Speaker 5: see why he didn't like it and what his christims are,

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Speaker 5: but then he's responding to it with this overtly politicized administration. Yes,

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Speaker 5: everything he says is like, you know, call me and

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Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton and the Democrats in Obama, It's like, are

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Speaker 5: you kidding? I thought you said that you didn't like

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Speaker 5: the politicization, so you're going to bond a fire with

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Speaker 5: fire and it just doesn't make any sense. And if

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Speaker 5: you look at the individual guys, I've been amazed at

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Speaker 5: how much lack of vision in some ways there is

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Speaker 5: because it is politicized, and they have this list of enemies,

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Speaker 5: but it feels so dated, like who's thought about any

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Speaker 5: of these names in ten years? And you know what

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Speaker 5: I mean, It's like they're living in twenty sixteen. And

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Speaker 5: then in addition to that, their ideas for the Bureau,

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Speaker 5: this is very interesting. Initially the Trump proposed cuts to

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Speaker 5: the bureau cash bat push back and said we actually

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Speaker 5: need more money. I think what ended up happening at

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Speaker 5: appropriations is they end up giving them that more money.

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Speaker 5: So the kind of promise of shrinking the quote unquote

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Speaker 5: deep state has just completely fallen by the wayside. And

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Speaker 5: I don't think I don't think there's much appreciate. I mean,

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Speaker 5: the paradox I think is most evident in the in

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Speaker 5: the Epstein case, where they make all these lofty promises

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Speaker 5: and then you see the Justice Department review, which if

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Speaker 5: you read it carefully, has a sent incident that says

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Speaker 5: Epstein had over a thousand victims, which suggests like, that's

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Speaker 5: a that's more than I would have, that's more than

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Speaker 5: we knew publicly before that prosecutor said it was something

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Speaker 5: in the dozens. I thought it was two hundred. That's

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Speaker 5: what they previously it said. And then in the final review,

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Speaker 5: based on the documents and whatever, it's like, Okay, so

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Speaker 5: there's something bigger here. I don't know exactly what, but

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Speaker 5: like it's not unreasonable for people to say all those

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Speaker 5: guys and just these two people did all of that.

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Speaker 5: So but the administration is like pretending like nothing happened.

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Speaker 5: They're just like, oh, what are you talking about? There's

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Speaker 5: nothing there. It's like you just talked. You were just

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Speaker 5: gas people up about this for the last eight years.

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Speaker 5: So they're in this position where they have to deliver

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Speaker 5: on demands for their base because they've failed in these

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Speaker 5: different ways, like I'm talking about like the fbid budget,

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Speaker 5: the Ebstein investigation, and that makes me nervous because it's like, well,

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Speaker 5: how are they going to do that? And then you

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Speaker 5: have these deployments to Los Angeles, you have the militarized

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Speaker 5: FBI where they're blurring people's faces and public press releases.

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Speaker 5: So it's like, I think they're under pressure to look

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Speaker 5: like they're changing something, doing something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to go into Ebstein because it's just fascinating.

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Speaker 2: So the polling for like releasing the Ebstein files is

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Speaker 2: like eighty percent. Like all Americans, they don't necessarily believe

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Speaker 2: in God, they don't believe in Santa Claus, they don't

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Speaker 2: believe in climate change, but they do believe that they

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Speaker 2: want to see those fucking files. And I feel like

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Speaker 2: what's important about this story is it's a story about

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Speaker 2: the base and not a story about you know, like

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Speaker 2: it's one thing for people on CNN to be like,

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Speaker 2: this is beyond the pale, but this is Trump. These

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Speaker 2: are the people who put Trump in there. This is

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Speaker 2: the Marjorie Taylor Greens. So do you think they're stay

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Speaker 2: still feeling the same way, because I know, like Charlie

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Speaker 2: Kirk and some of Trump's people have been like no, no,

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Speaker 2: you know, but do you think there's still that ground

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Speaker 2: swell number one and number two? Like what could they

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Speaker 2: theoretically even do?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So you have to distinguish between the parts of

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Speaker 5: the base that are like the influencers that are kind

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Speaker 5: of like pushing Trump's agenda, and then just the ordinary voters.

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Speaker 5: I would say the influencer class has largely been bought.

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Speaker 5: If you look at like Charlie Kirk, he goes on

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Speaker 5: his show and says, I'm done talking about Epstein for now.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to quote this is a direct quote. I'm

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Speaker 5: going to trust my friends in government. It's like, wait,

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Speaker 5: I thought you were a conservative. The hell's frozen over

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Speaker 5: that they got to can trust the government? It was yeah.

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Speaker 5: And and then just to give you another example, there

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Speaker 5: was Denesh Desuza him saying, oh, yeah, we got to

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Speaker 5: move on and focus on other things. But if it's

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Speaker 5: very interesting, if you look at the base, they're not

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Speaker 5: having it, or at least when I looked at it

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Speaker 5: this past couple of weeks, they were like, what are

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Speaker 5: you talking about? This was one of your promises. And

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Speaker 5: you know that the cash Betel talked about it repeatedly.

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Speaker 5: And so I'm honestly sort of sympathetic to the base.

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Speaker 5: Not that I have the same interpretation of what Epstein

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Speaker 5: means that they do, but they're right. They were promised

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Speaker 5: something and they haven't been given anything close to it.

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Speaker 5: It was like a two page Justice Department review and

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Speaker 5: a thousand victims. There's got to be a little bit

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Speaker 5: more at least, right, So that's kind of my perspective

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Speaker 5: on it. And it's interesting too because it parallels a

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Speaker 5: collapse in the public support for the deportation regime. If

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Speaker 5: you look at the polling right now, it's gone like

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Speaker 5: straight down. So I wonder if Epstein is actually symptomatic

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Speaker 5: of a deeper dissatisfaction with the administration. But that's an

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Speaker 5: acceptable way to express it because you're not going to

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Speaker 5: come out and say, oh, actually immigration, I'm okay, you're

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Speaker 5: going You've got to sub media through something else, you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I'm that's just really an interesting No, that's an interesting theory,

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Speaker 2: and I hadn't. I mean, they're definitely there's something like

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Speaker 2: the bottom has fallen out on Trump's support, So that

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Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense that this would be a

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Speaker 2: sort of palpable way to express it. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: push you for a minute, just because I'm this is

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Speaker 2: like my own edification here more than anything. What do

434
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 2: you think is in there that like I always just

435
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 2: assumed and we're just get we're just spitballing here. So

436
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 2: this is not cable news like we can just we're

437
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 2: just making guesses here. So but like I always assumed

438
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 2: they went into the files saw there was nothing, maybe

439
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 2: that Epstein had done some like low level government participation

440
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 2: with certain stuff, you know, not like a high level

441
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 2: CIA guy, but just someone who you know, they CIA

442
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 2: has people who just sort of push on other people

443
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: but aren't really like in it the same way, say

444
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 2: like whatever is I mean? And that they just were like,

445
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: it's all you know, stuff that implicates some celebrities or

446
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 2: wealthy people, and also just nothing that makes anyone look good.

447
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 2: But I mean, do you think there's more than that

448
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 2: in there?

449
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 5: I think that there needs to be more nuanced and

450
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 5: how Epstein is a figure and how the intelligence community

451
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 5: is characterized, because when people say, oh, was he an asset,

452
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 5: they don't understand that there's different like levels of relationships

453
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 5: that exist, right these agencies, Like it takes almost nothing

454
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 5: to just fill out a confidential human source report and

455
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 5: say hey, here's what somebody said. That doesn't mean that

456
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 5: you're like meeting with them and paying them and directing

457
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 5: them or anything. They processed. Just to give you another example,

458
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 5: I was just we're gonna sorry about this. The CIA

459
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 5: has a program called the National Resource Agency, I think

460
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 5: it's called, and where they just process interviews of Americans

461
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 5: coming back travelers coming back over abroad from countries of

462
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 5: interests in CIA. So say you've traveled to I don't know,

463
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 5: Russia or Ukraine or North career for whatever reason, and

464
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 5: then they say, oh, what did you see there? What

465
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 5: was the you know, did you see any weapons here

466
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 5: in this town or something? And this is a routine

467
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 5: thing that they probably do thousands and thousands of people

468
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 5: just intake. And it's like, so that's not an asset relationship.

469
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 5: You don't fill something out, you're not being tasked with things.

470
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 5: It's just them asking a couple of things when they

471
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 5: come back in, and it's like, that's the low level

472
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 5: of association that I would expect to come out if

473
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 5: they if just because Epstein knew everybody. And that's another

474
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 5: part of this thing I think people are not entirely

475
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 5: honest about, which is that this guy was an almost

476
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 5: pathological collector of people in relationships and he just loved

477
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 5: being around important people. That doesn't mean that he was

478
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 5: like like, we probably all have this friend that's like,

479
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 5: look at this photo I have of so and so

480
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 5: famous person, you know what I mean. And it's like, okay,

481
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 5: I'm sure that you kind of took a picture with

482
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 5: him for a second and said hi, Like that doesn't

483
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 5: mean that there's some sustained relationship there. So that to

484
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 5: me is some of the nuance I'd like to see

485
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 5: in this is like, Okay, yes he had an they

486
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 5: say Epstein associate, like you and I and are associate

487
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 5: right now, because you know what I mean, It's like,

488
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 5: it doesn't mean that there's some deep financial relation so

489
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:03,719
Speaker 5: he did.

490
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's your take too, is that he just was

491
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: sort of knew everybody is in photos.

492
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 5: Let's be real. The guy was a con man, and

493
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 5: he went around telling people that he has at these

494
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 5: connections and it's very much as interest to do so

495
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 5: because then he can dine out on these names. Is

496
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 5: that I know Bill Clinton, I know so and so on?

497
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 5: But who really knows what that means? You can't trust someone, right,

498
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 5: an inveterate liar.

499
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 2: Right, so just a con man, like he just was

500
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: good at conning people out of money, right, and also

501
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 2: blackmailing them.

502
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 5: I have kind of a nuanced position on this, which

503
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 5: is that I don't like when the major press just says, oh,

504
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 5: this whole thing is a conspiracy theory because the attitude

505
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 5: and the part of the public to look at this

506
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 5: and see, Okay, there's a lot of influential people here

507
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 5: and they seem okay with this world of whatever, all

508
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 5: these young women. That's an appropriate reaction to this. This

509
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 5: is kind of like a me too thing.

510
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: I think definitely is.

511
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 5: And so but that's different than he's cavorting with. You know,

512
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 5: the CI is sending him here to target this guy.

513
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 5: That's just a high society tolerating grossness thing, and that's

514
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 5: bad and something should be done about that. And it's

515
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 5: appropriate that people feel that something should be done about that.

516
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 5: But it's different, I think, than something more, something more

517
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 5: conscious or planned out, if that makes sense.

518
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 2: So that's what I think it is, too, is that,

519
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: like you know, the Weinstein stuff, it's like disgusting sexual malfeasance, rape,

520
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 2: harassment of children, women who are between the ages of

521
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 2: fourteen and eighteen, which is insane, but that it's not

522
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: a sort of larger like you know, Seria is doing

523
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: this to get this.

524
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 5: To get that Donald Trump the president. Now, I don't

525
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 5: know if anyone knew. Is on record in New York

526
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 5: Daily News. I think in the two thousand.

527
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: Thin York Magazine two say the joys beautiful women as

528
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: much as I do, some of them are the many

529
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: of them are on the younger.

530
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 5: Isn't that bad enough? I mean, that's it, That's what

531
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 5: the conspiracy, That's what the thing is here. That's bad

532
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 5: enough that these guys look the other way on this stuff.

533
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: I think that the fundamental important element here is that

534
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: that is bad enough, that the fact that he was

535
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: going around with teenage girls is bad enough. And in fact,

536
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: he was on the sex predator there's like a sex

537
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: predator registrary as sex offender registry, and Jeffrey Epstein was

538
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: on it after two thousand and five, you know, and

539
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 2: it was like his house, like on the map, you

540
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: could see it. And I remember actually looking up and thinking, oh, yeah,

541
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: there's that rich guy who everyone knows is a sex predator.

542
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: But for some reason it has avoided punishment this.

543
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 5: Whole time, right, And that's where I hesitate to have

544
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 5: the reaction that some quarters of kind of elite opinion

545
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 5: have with are just like ew, this UFO style conspiracy stuff.

546
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 5: It's like, no, there's something there. Even if it's not

547
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 5: it's the extreme.

548
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 2: It's also like it's Weinstein, right, It's like, you know,

549
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: these people are doing something bad and you don't exactly

550
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 2: know what it is, but you know, I mean I

551
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: think it's you know, and you know, and you don't

552
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 2: go to dinner at their house.

553
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 5: Because his brand, he was kind of supposed to be

554
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 5: the playboy ish guy who fucks and his hanging out

555
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 5: like you can't tell me they didn't have some ink,

556
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 5: Like come on, you know that's basically my position is,

557
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 5: come on, like this does not reflect well. I mean,

558
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 5: Noam Chowsky met with this guy, I think after the conviction,

559
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 5: and this is somebody that loves yeah and said, you know,

560
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 5: he did his time, and it's kind of like that's

561
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 5: something that should be an attitude shift, like yeah, yeah,

562
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 5: Like I guess they don't necessarily need to be like

563
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 5: exiled to an island, but there should be some attitude

564
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 5: of like, Okay, has this person changed at all or

565
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 5: no one seems to care about that and in the

566
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 5: kind of highnxiety.

567
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: I mean, we're out of time, but I want to

568
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: quote the great Jesse Cannon, who just said to me,

569
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: producer Jesse, who does not get a lot of respect

570
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: on this podcast because I give him a very hard time,

571
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: but he was the one who said, no one is

572
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: ever canceled. That cancelation is like bullshit that these people

573
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 2: always are able to whether it. So, if you are

574
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: a sex predator of children, you should be canceled. I

575
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: think we should go out and that should be like

576
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: a bumper sticker.

577
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 5: And that's what this is all about. If the public

578
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 5: hadn't had the outcry that it did, he would have

579
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 5: gotten off with the brief sentence he had and he'd

580
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 5: be back doing the same thing he was doing. And

581
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 5: that's why people don't trust the system, because I think,

582
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 5: we'll look how you handled it last time. I honestly

583
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 5: empathize with even the most extreme conspiraence miney people because

584
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 5: I get why they don't trust them anymore. They really

585
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 5: did blow this the first time around.

586
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: And many many other things too. Ken. I hope you

587
00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 2: will come back. Michael Waldman is the president end of

588
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: the Brennan Center for Justice. Welcome to past violand Michael Waldman.

589
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 8: It's great to be with you again. Mollie.

590
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: So you've head the Brandan Center for Justice, which is

591
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: extremely important legal resource you provide towards You provide all

592
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: of the work the NEAT for many of the nonprofits

593
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 2: that protect our democracy. You guys have a truly harrowing

594
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: report about the midterms and the Trump administration's plan for them.

595
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: Can you talk us through it? And first, I would

596
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: love you to talk just like before you even start

597
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: talking us through it, just explain to us a little bit,

598
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: just like a quick refresher on what Brennan does and

599
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: where you are in this process.

600
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 5: Sure.

601
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 8: So we are a non partisan law and policy institute.

602
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 8: We work to strengthen, to reform and when necessary, to

603
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 8: defend the systems of democracy and justice in this country.

604
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 8: So they worked for everybody, and so as you can imagine,

605
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 8: this is an intense time given how much assault there

606
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 8: is on our democracy and a lot of the details,

607
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 8: a lot of the arcane stuff turns out to matter

608
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 8: a lot. And so we're part of mostly a thank tank,

609
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 8: also an advocacy group and a communications hub, and we're busy,

610
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 8: and you know, it really feels in a lot of ways,

611
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 8: like in the last week or two that the twenty

612
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 8: twenty six midterms have kind of swung into view as

613
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 8: the looming next year of political activity in this country.

614
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 8: And the key thing is voters in our democracy have

615
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 8: to have the final say, and they have to have

616
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 8: the final say in twenty twenty six. And in the

617
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 8: last several elections, there were a lot of pressures on

618
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 8: the election system, from COVID to violence, but the system held.

619
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 8: Election officials from both parties worked well together and the

620
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 8: elections were accurate and safe and secure. But now, as

621
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 8: our new analysis shows, there's a new factor that we've

622
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 8: not had before, which is the federal government itself as

623
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 8: a threat to the elections, a concerted campaign by the

624
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 8: Trump administration to undermine the twenty twenty six elections. And

625
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 8: some of this stuff is well known, more or less.

626
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 8: Some of it is kind of under the radar, but

627
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 8: it clearly is adding up to a concerted campaign. And

628
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 8: in this new analysis that we published this week, we

629
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 8: connect the dots.

630
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: So the first thing is very well known, which is

631
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: that Trump is trying to re gerrymander states in time

632
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: for the midterms, and that he's even said, for example,

633
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: he said in Texas that he was entitled to five

634
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: more seats, So talk us through that because I feel

635
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: like that's the first part of the story.

636
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, it is. And interestingly that came up so recently

637
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 8: and so abruptly. It's not in this report, but there's

638
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 8: no question that this is. There's a lot going on

639
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 8: and that's visible now. Our report, as great as it is,

640
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 8: doesn't have people, you know, hiding them in by the interstate.

641
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 8: That thing of leaving Austin to avoid a quorum on

642
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 8: jerrymandering is this is not actually the first time that's

643
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 8: happened in Texas. This is kind of a bit of

644
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 8: a tradition. We want Congress to be representative. Jerrymandering has

645
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 8: been bad throughout American history. It's a bad thing for

646
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 8: politicians to choose the voters rather than the other way around.

647
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 8: What is happening in Texas is particularly egregious. It is

648
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 8: just being explicitly done to squeeze five seats out for

649
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 8: the Republicans. It's at the expense of, very often of

650
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 8: voters of color. It's being done under the orders of

651
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 8: someone who doesn't live in Texas, Donald Trump, and it's

652
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 8: in the middle of the decade. Remember the census happens

653
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 8: every ten years. And that's when you're supposed to draw

654
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 8: the district lines. So it's a big fight that the

655
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 8: Democrats have left the state to avoid a quorum. The

656
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 8: Republican leadership of the state is trying to have them arrested.

657
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 8: I don't think that's going to work. It's not a

658
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 8: surprise that the Democrats in blue states are readying a

659
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 8: response or are responding accordingly, and I don't think we

660
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 8: should be surprised by that. I don't think it's a

661
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 8: good thing ultimately for the country to have this kind

662
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 8: of arms race. So the final answer, I think it's

663
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 8: really important that we never lose sight of the following.

664
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 8: The answer has to be ultimately national standards that apply

665
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 8: to red states and blue states alike. And you know,

666
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 8: the Supreme Court was going to do this and then

667
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 8: backed out and said that federal courts cannot police parties

668
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 8: and jerrymandering, but Congress could do it. The Freedom to

669
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 8: Vote Act, which you've heard me rant about, came really

670
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 8: close to passage two years ago. It would ban jerry

671
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 8: mandering nationwide in red states and in blue states and

672
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 8: bar mid decade redistricting. In other words, if it had

673
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 8: become law, this would not be happening. And it's really

674
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 8: critical that politicians who talk about democracy, who like to

675
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 8: give speeches about democracy being under threat, that when they

676
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 8: get their hands on the levers of power, do something

677
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 8: about protecting democracy. Unrigged the system just as enthusiastically and

678
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 8: energetically as some other politicians are rigging the system. So

679
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 8: that's that piece of it, and you know you're going

680
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 8: to see this play out in a bunch of states.

681
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 8: California is considering putting a new map on the ballot

682
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 8: in November because the Redistrict and Commission was created not

683
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 8: by Democrats but actually by voters and by Governor Schwarzenegger

684
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 8: backing it. He's a Republican. And in other states like

685
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 8: Illinois and New York and Maryland, again the Democrats are

686
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 8: looking to effect, you know, fight fire with fire. But

687
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 8: ultimately the answer is national standards, I think. But that's

688
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 8: only part of the story. Rights about voting and how

689
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 8: and the threats to the voting system with a little

690
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 8: less drama are really important and unnerving.

691
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: So that is what I wanted to talk about next.

692
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: So in this report, you have a bunch of different

693
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: issues that the federal government is trying to mess with

694
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: elections with and I would love you to talk about

695
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: this attempting to rewrite election rules and interfere with election

696
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: administration by executive order, because executive orders they don't have

697
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: a ton of legal weight. It's more like just you know,

698
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: they're not it's not real, but it's real if the

699
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: Supreme Court will allow it to stand.

700
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 8: So very often we're like a malevolent press release.

701
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 2: Exactly, malevolent press release. I'm writing that down. That's very sark.

702
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 8: So the key thing to start is to remember that

703
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 8: under the law and under the constitution, states run elections,

704
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 8: and the Congress can pass laws setting national standards, but

705
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 8: the executive branch and especially the president, has almost no

706
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 8: role in these elections under normal circumstances. So it's just

707
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 8: Trump's impersonal attempts to seize control over the election system

708
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 8: at all is its own form of an egregious breach.

709
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 8: Among the things that are part of this kind of

710
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 8: concerted strategy is an executive order. As you said, that

711
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 8: was one of gazillions, and so it was easy to

712
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 8: lose sight on that required would require, if it were

713
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 8: to go into effect, you to show a passport to

714
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 8: register to vote in the United States under the federal form,

715
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 8: which you know half of all Americans don't have a passport.

716
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 8: It wouldn't even allow a birth certificate, as problematic as

717
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 8: that is. You need to have a passport or something

718
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 8: like that. What the Trump White House has done as

719
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 8: well is purge the election security officials and agencies that

720
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 8: have been doing a good job of helping states protect

721
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 8: their elections. It is requiring trying to require states to

722
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 8: turnover voter data to DOGE because you know what, could

723
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 8: ye find the fraud just like they found all those

724
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 8: non existent frauds whatever security And according to the Associated Press,

725
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 8: in the last few days, nineteen states already have gotten

726
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 8: demands or requests from the Justice Department for their voter records.

727
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 8: So this is happening. The whole of the federal government

728
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 8: is being sort of weaponized in this way. And of course,

729
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 8: as you know, Trump himself went to the Justice Department,

730
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 8: spoke to the cheering attorneys who he had appointed there

731
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 8: and said, I want you to prosecute election officials. Yeah,

732
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 8: and it's a whole gearing up of the prosecution mechanisms

733
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 8: to threaten these election officials. And when you think about

734
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 8: what happened in twenty twenty. You know, it was a

735
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 8: handful of Republican very often officials at different levels of

736
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 8: government who, whatever they might have done wrong or right,

737
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 8: other realms of their work stood up. Whether it was

738
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 8: Brad Raffensberger, the Secretary of State of Georgia, who you

739
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 8: know wouldn't quote find eleven thousand votes, or Attorney General

740
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 8: bar who told Trump that this is that it was

741
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 8: a Barnard epithet, that his claims that were bs. So

742
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 8: you know, now the administration is stocked with election deniers.

743
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 8: So all of this adds up to something new. We

744
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 8: haven't had this before in this country. To have the

745
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 8: old federal government weigh in put some on the scale

746
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 8: in this way.

747
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: So you have the executive orders, and then you have

748
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: what's happened in I think it's already happened in Wyoming,

749
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 2: right where some red states are mandating proof of whatever.

750
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 8: Well, you know, some states are trying to have done

751
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 8: it and actually backed off doing it because it turned

752
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 8: out it disenfranchised so many eligible voters, including.

753
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Trump voters too, because Trump has us low frequency.

754
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 8: There's a reason why states don't do this, and yeah,

755
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 8: now you know, so there's a lot of this goes

756
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 8: back to this conspiracy theory that there's lots of non

757
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 8: citizens who are voting, and it's just not it's not true.

758
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 8: And states have very robust systems in place to make

759
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 8: sure that only citizens are voting, only citizens should vote.

760
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 8: But that good news is only citizens basically do.

761
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: Vote, and there's very little evidence of non citizens voting.

762
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, and you know people, I you know as you can.

763
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 8: We have found when we make these arguments to people

764
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 8: publicly that it's less effective to point out that it

765
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 8: doesn't happen or that it's illegal already many times over

766
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 8: could but but but more that the states take this

767
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 8: really seriously and have a lot of safeguards in place

768
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 8: to prevent cheating of that kind.

769
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 2: So executive orders, and then one of the scarier ones

770
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: is messing with the machine, the election of quote. So

771
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: talk us through that.

772
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 8: So if you remember, one of the key things Trump

773
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 8: tried to do in twenty twenty was to seize the

774
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 8: voting machines. I don't know what that would have told him,

775
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 8: but the executive order that they did earlier in the

776
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 8: year would basically decertify take away the approval for the

777
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 8: use of the voting machines that are used all over

778
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 8: the country. One of the notions that sometimes Trump and

779
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 8: his people have is that all ballots should be counted

780
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 8: by hand. And that's a really bad idea because you

781
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 8: actually get more errors that way, and it also would

782
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 8: delay the counting and the reason we as a society

783
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 8: have moved past counting our fingers. But a lot of

784
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 8: these things, as you say, are in this executive were.

785
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 8: One of the things that's happened, broadly speaking, is the

786
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 8: courts have stepped up on a lot of these things.

787
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 8: In particular, this is something the Brennan Center did. We

788
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 8: represented the League of Women Voters in a lawsuit on

789
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 8: this executive work, and a federal court actually blocked some

790
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 8: of the worst parts of it, the parts that where

791
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 8: Trump is pretending to order an independent agency that he

792
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 8: has no authority over to do these things. But it's

793
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 8: still playing out in the courts and the story isn't

794
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 8: finished yet.

795
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: So you have the seizing machines, which is really scary,

796
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: and then you have another thing, which I also thought

797
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: was horrifying, accessing sensitive voter file data. Explain to us

798
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: what this story there is.

799
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 8: Well, the states keep these voter records. There's lots of

800
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,479
Speaker 8: sensitive stuff in it, often social security numbers, other things

801
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 8: like that. The federal government has no place demanding that

802
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 8: data just to look at it. What it seems to

803
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 8: be the case is that this will be used to say, Aha,

804
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 8: look at all the fraud and to try to undermine

805
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 8: the elections in advance. A lot of this violence, privacy rules,

806
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 8: a lot of it is illegal. Some of it, as

807
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 8: I said, came in this demand that the states turn

808
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 8: over these records to DOGE or they will lose federal money.

809
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 8: Now you're starting to see the Justice Department make these demands,

810
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 8: and there are now task forces set up in the

811
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 8: Justice Department, in the US Attorney's Office in Washington, DC

812
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 8: and other places that are very explicitly rattling the cage

813
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 8: to threaten election officials, to threaten prosecutions of election officials

814
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 8: who do their job. And there's a guy named Chris Krebs.

815
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 8: I don't know if you have heard it, but he

816
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 8: was just the head of cybersecurity in the Trump Department

817
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 8: of pum Land Security in twenty twenty, and he said

818
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 8: accurately that the twenty twenty election was secure and the

819
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 8: most secure in history. And Trump fired him at the time,

820
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 8: and now he's having him investigated. And the goal here

821
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 8: is to rattle and shake the confidence and shake the

822
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 8: courage of state and local officials so that when it

823
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 8: should be necessary, when the moment comes and they need

824
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 8: to show their backbone, they'll be afraid to do it.

825
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 8: So far, the state and local officials have been great.

826
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 8: They know their job. You know, none of them signed

827
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 8: up for being high stakes combatants and politics. They're not

828
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 8: the big glamour jobs. A lot of the stuff that

829
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 8: they're being asked to do is illegal. We and others

830
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 8: are talking to lots of lawyers to make sure people

831
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 8: know what their legal remedies are and that sort of thing.

832
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really scary to me that it's largely an

833
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 2: intimidation campaign, right, Yes, I.

834
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 8: Think it's an intimidation campaign that will grow in intensity

835
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 8: over the months. And the question again is, well, why's

836
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 8: the what's the endgame? Why do this?

837
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 7: You know?

838
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 8: And I do think that undermining public confidence in the results,

839
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 8: making people think wrongly that there's lots of fraud, endlessly

840
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 8: discovering Aha, now we found the smoking gun of the

841
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 8: of the of the phantom vote, and this and that

842
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 8: kind of stuff, to create a fog of misinformation about

843
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 8: the elections in advance seems to be one of the goals.

844
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 2: So what can people do If you're listening to this

845
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: and you're freaking out, or you read it last weekend

846
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: and with your husband and both freaked out about it.

847
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: What can people do?

848
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 8: So, first of all, back up those state and local officials.

849
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 8: Let them know that you understand what they're going through.

850
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 8: They need to stand strong, they need to do their part.

851
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 8: They need support from all across the political spectrum.

852
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 5: You know, as the.

853
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 8: Elections draw closer, there are all kinds of things people

854
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 8: can do, working with law enforcement and others, poll watching

855
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 8: and those things. Though it's a little early for that.

856
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 8: It's really important that courts do their part as well.

857
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 8: And like I said, a lot of them have, but

858
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 8: we haven't heard from the Supreme Court on a lot

859
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 8: of this stuff. So much of this effort is illegal,

860
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 8: and courts need to continue to rule when that comes

861
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 8: before them on that. And ultimately, I think that it

862
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 8: is a lot harder to rig an election. There's a

863
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 8: lot harder to stealing election when lots of people are

864
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 8: voting and lots of people are yelling and lots of

865
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 8: people are watching. And the more focus on this there is,

866
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 8: the better it is because I think one of the

867
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 8: things that I hope comes out of this period of

868
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 8: democratic destruction is a renewed commitment to fixing our democracy

869
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 8: and making sure that this kind of thing can happen again.

870
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 8: I worry that, like as you may have followed, you know,

871
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 8: there's a lot of chatter, oh, you know, what issues

872
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 8: are there?

873
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 4: Gee?

874
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 8: You know Biden talked about democracy that means it's a.

875
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 9: Dud, right, And I think that what we're seeing with

876
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 9: the Texas gerrymander shows that no, these issues are really

877
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 9: vital and that it's we need some courage from some

878
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 9: politicians to actually take action when they have the chance

879
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 9: to strengthen democracy and not just issue cresh releases.

880
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 2: Right, And I'm in that is like gonna come later.

881
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: Right now, Probably the only thing anyone can do is

882
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 2: try to protect our midterms so that they are so

883
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: that people have the freedom to go and vote, and

884
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: so that the votes are you know, that no one

885
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: messes with anything. One of the things they spend a

886
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: lot of time thinking about is if we do have

887
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: if there are free and fair elections and Democrats are

888
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: able to regain the levers of power, there has to

889
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: be an anti corruption legislation. Like Democrats have spent a

890
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: lot of time not legislating for any number of reasons.

891
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a Kirsten Cinema that derails them. Sometimes it's

892
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 2: their own anxiety about seeming you know, seeming overly partisan

893
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 2: or whatever.

894
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 8: Yeah, So to give credit to Nancy Pelosi and people

895
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 8: like that, you know, they really push the Freedom to

896
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 8: Vote Act and the John R. Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act,

897
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 8: which were really important bills that would have addressed dark

898
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 8: money in politics, that would have addressed theair remagering that

899
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 8: we've strengthened early voting and automatic voter registration, a lot

900
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 8: of the other things, restored the Voting Rights Act. Those

901
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 8: bills had pass the House, they had a majority in

902
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 8: the Senate, and the problem then was that two Senators

903
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 8: mansioned in cinema who supported supposedly the bills wouldn't change

904
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 8: the philibuster rules to enable them to overcome the Republican blockade.

905
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 8: I think it's the case now that Democrats part of

906
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 8: the lesson they drew from that whole period was they

907
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 8: were going to change the filibuster rules to enable it

908
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 8: to pass it. You know, last year when visions danced

909
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 8: in some of their heads about a trifecta, they made

910
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 8: clear they were going to pass that bill, those bills

911
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 8: with a majority vote. I think that right now there's

912
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 8: a lot of looking at what the most important reforms

913
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 8: are today because of the extraordinary corruption and the breaches

914
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 8: of law and norms that we see from this administration.

915
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 8: And so what are the corruption measures to deal with

916
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 8: an era of Elon m and Donald Trump and the

917
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 8: monetization of government. How can we address the Supreme Court

918
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 8: and the role it plays. I think there's a lot

919
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 8: of enthusiasm for something like term limits as part of

920
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 8: any reform package. I think that it makes partisans of

921
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 8: all parties uncomfortable. But I think there ultimately needs to

922
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 8: be something on redistricting as there was, and voting of

923
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 8: course as well. So there's a lot of issues in

924
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 8: play and formulating what that package looks like. What counts

925
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 8: as not just what one is against, but what one

926
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 8: is for. And if you don't have a really robust

927
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 8: vision for how to strengthen democracy, people are going to

928
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 8: think it's just partisan wind. The main problem, honestly in

929
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 8: twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two was they waited.

930
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 8: The White House under President Biden waited a long time

931
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 8: to try to move that bill. And that's the kind

932
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 8: of thing one needs to do right at the start,

933
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 8: and not worry about twelve editorial boards if those exist anymore,

934
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 8: saying oh whoo, this is partisan.

935
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 2: Michael Wallman, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you

936
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: for for than keep.

937
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 8: Us sane and educated.

938
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 6: They're normal fu Jesse Cannon, Molly.

939
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 4: So I'm going to tell you a really tragic story.

940
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: Please, big balls driving through the d C in a

941
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 3: very heavily policed area, he was attacked by a group

942
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 3: of teenagers in a carjacking. Police came literally as it

943
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 3: was happening. And now Trump says, you know, we got

944
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 3: to basically declare Marshall in DC. Is probably the next

945
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: step of whatever many people are assuming. But they're going

946
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 3: to order federal law enforcement officers to patrol the DC streets.

947
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 2: We saw this happen in California. We've seen this happen

948
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: when Governor Hocal sent National Guard into our subways. It's

949
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: just a waste of everybody's time, right he's going to

950
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: federalize it. He's going to send all these people. They're

951
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: going to sit on the street and stare at their

952
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: phone and have nothing to you. And no one will

953
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 2: be better off for it, and it will be like

954
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: Trump's big power grab, but it won't do anything, and

955
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 2: it's just incredibly wasteful and stupid and makes no sense.

956
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: And he'll do it.

957
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: You say, no one will be better off for it.

958
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: But candy Crush is going to make a lot of money.

959
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 2: Candy Crush, Instagram. Those are the things that will benefit

960
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: tech companies, will TikTok, because you know TikTok, the Chinese

961
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 2: government will.

962
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 5: Make some money.

963
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 4: Oracle Larry Awesome.

964
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas to all whose help. That's it for this

965
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 2: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday

966
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense.

967
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 5: Of all this chaos.

968
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 2: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a

969
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.