1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:02,080
Speaker 1: Trust me?

2
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 2: Do you trust her?

3
00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: Where I ever lead you astray?

4
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,240
Speaker 3: Trust This is the truth, the only truth.

5
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 4: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

6
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,960
Speaker 4: welcome to trust me. The podcast about colts, extreme belief

7
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 4: and manipulation from two Queens of England who have actually

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 4: experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth and

9
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,640
Speaker 4: today is part two with my family friend Nomes bistline

10
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 4: from the Netflix docuseries Trust Me the False Prophet, which

11
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 4: centers around largely my mother Christine Marie. This week, Nomes

12
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 4: is going to share what it was like getting raided

13
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,159
Speaker 4: by the FBI, how she felt about my mom when

14
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 4: she learned that she was the FBI informant, and why

15
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 4: these so called prophet Samuel Bateman was obsessed with marrying

16
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 4: the Queen of England.

17
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 1: She'll tell us about the events leading up to her

18
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 1: time and gel how she began the painful process of

19
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: deconstructing while in prison, and what life has been like

20
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 1: since getting out and finally being free of Samuel Bateman.

21
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 1: Thank god, thank god.

22
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, before we get into this second part of GNOME's story,

23
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 5: which is just like, it's so compelling that what she

24
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 5: has been through and how much she has been able

25
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 5: to deconstruct in such a short amount of time, and like,

26
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 5: I mean, you're all gonna you're you're about to hear it,

27
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 5: but just it's very impressive.

28
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm very impressed by her. Chill's She's unbelievable.

29
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, before we get into that all of that with

30
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 5: gnomes Megan, I must know what your cultiest thing this

31
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 5: week is.

32
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,720
Speaker 1: Okay, my cultiest thing of this week is pretty personal. Actually,

33
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 1: this is a first hand experience.

34
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 2: Are you ready to hear it?

35
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: I'm ready? Okay, So I'm moving already a stressful situation.

36
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 1: We often find that people join cults when somebody dies

37
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: or when they're having to move or big life changes

38
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: to just something to note, you know what I mean,

39
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,560
Speaker 1: I have to move right. So I'm looking online. I'm

40
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: looking online, and I'm emailing people, and I'm looking at apartments,

41
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 1: and the first house that I like says, come on

42
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 1: over and look at it. Okay, mm hmm, this is

43
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,959
Speaker 1: the first house I'm looking at. So I first noticed

44
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 1: something was weird when the person I was texting with

45
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, you may now move on to the

46
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 1: man of the homes. Text message so the first person

47
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 1: I was texting with didn't even live in the house,

48
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 1: right oh, And I was like, oh, okay, so now

49
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm speaking to the person who lives there, and it's

50
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 1: a cute house.

51
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm excited to go look at it.

52
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 1: I give one of our mutual guy friends my location

53
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: in case something bad happens, which, looking back, it's like,

54
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 1: what could he possibly do? He wouldn't even notice I

55
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 1: was missing for like a month.

56
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:50,359
Speaker 4: But.

57
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,240
Speaker 1: I felt I was taking all the safety precautions.

58
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: I get to the house.

59
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 1: This very nice looking man, very polite, opens the gate.

60
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 3: Hello.

61
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 1: The first thing I noticed is that there is a

62
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:12,799
Speaker 1: semi truck made of clear glass. Huh yeah, that's I go,

63
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,560
Speaker 1: I'm my picture that. Okay, that sounds cool. Yeah, So

64
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 1: I go, what's that? And he says, sometimes we do

65
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,639
Speaker 1: karaoke in it. People do like individualized garage sales out

66
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,519
Speaker 1: of it. And I'm like, cute, look at the pool.

67
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,120
Speaker 1: Let's go show me the pool. Right, we go, look

68
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 1: at the pool. Yes, there's a pool. Obsessed And on

69
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: our way to the pool, I see this little statue

70
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: of an alien and I'm like, oh my god, he's

71
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 1: so cute, Like it's a very intricate statue. He's like really,

72
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I love him, you know,

73
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 1: like aliens better come save us soon, haha.

74
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 2: And he's like yeah, and I was like great.

75
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 1: So then we get into the house and he's showing

76
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,480
Speaker 1: me my room and it's a cute room.

77
00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 2: I'm looking around.

78
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,640
Speaker 1: I look out one of the windows and I see

79
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 1: on this clear box semi track a like phrase that

80
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: seems rather culty with an alien on it. And the

81
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: alien is wearing a crown of thorns. Okay, oh no,

82
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: like a Jesus what kind of alien? Like? What's the

83
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,200
Speaker 1: look of the alien? A gray, like just a normal gray,

84
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 1: like peace signed style, like big head, big eyes. Yeah, okay,

85
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't doing normal, But I was like,

86
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,800
Speaker 1: oh dear, for some reason, I'm still interested in the

87
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: room makes sense this salt tracks for you. So I'm like,

88
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 1: we're measuring it together. But I am at the same

89
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 1: time rather anxious. So I had like an iced coffee

90
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,599
Speaker 1: with me, and it was doing a lot of prop work,

91
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 1: like I kept shaking it a lot, kind of like

92
00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 1: holding it very much in between us, and I was

93
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 1: just a little nervous, right, So then he's like, do

94
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,960
Speaker 1: you want to see the storage room? And you said yes,

95
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, sure, I would love someplace to

96
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,479
Speaker 1: keep my Christmas decorations. True, I would I'm in a

97
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,559
Speaker 1: new place now and they're just sitting out. I would

98
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 1: love a storage room. Takes me down to the storage room.

99
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 1: Life sized alien on across stop.

100
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 5: First of all, Megan, I can't believe you went down

101
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 5: into the store room with a strange man in the

102
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 5: house with the aliens with the crowns of thorns.

103
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:34,000
Speaker 2: Like, what the hell?

104
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 5: He was really nice and there's an alien on a

105
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 5: fucking cross, Like how yeah? Are we talking like life

106
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 5: size size, life size alien on across?

107
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 3: Yes?

108
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 2: Oh oh that's cool.

109
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,240
Speaker 1: And this iced coffee is now just like propping around

110
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,839
Speaker 1: like I'm shaking it. I'm like whoop, woop poop, and

111
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,600
Speaker 1: he's like yeah, but you know, like he's kind of

112
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: proud of it, right, And I was like, well, I

113
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 1: got a lot more places to see today. This place

114
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 1: is great. You'll be hearing from me soon. And I

115
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 1: leave and I walk out to my car and I

116
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: call you and you're like that's insane.

117
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 2: And there's a part of me that's still like but

118
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,279
Speaker 2: I like the room. Wait did we learn like what

119
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:29,599
Speaker 2: the deal is?

120
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 1: Well, of course it's very easy to google, and you know,

121
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,240
Speaker 1: please just don't because I don't want him to be

122
00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:36,839
Speaker 1: mad at me.

123
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:38,159
Speaker 2: But I did.

124
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 1: I told someone the story and they were like, oh,

125
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 1: it's this church, and I do think he might be

126
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 1: the leader of it. I'm not looking too deeply into it.

127
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,559
Speaker 1: And everyone was like. My friends were like, you should

128
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 1: do like a thing where you move in like kind

129
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: of like your mom with the gnomes and you know,

130
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 1: Sam Bateman stuff, like you just start documenting it.

131
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,440
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, because I would join it.

132
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,280
Speaker 5: I mean yes, you would join it, especially because you

133
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 5: love living amongst other people in like a communal communal vibe,

134
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 5: like you.

135
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:19,200
Speaker 1: Love that, and an alien I mean yeah. So it's

136
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 1: a religion. It's a religion, and there's like a there's

137
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: a building, there's a you know. People are saying like

138
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 1: it's coercive. Some people are saying it's lovely.

139
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 2: So wow.

140
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,160
Speaker 1: The one last thing I'll add is that he did

141
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: ask for my Instagram and I sent it to him

142
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,680
Speaker 1: and the bio is just like cult hunting, so I'm

143
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 1: like his mind, Oh yours yours? I was like, what Okay,

144
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I used to say that maybe it

145
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 1: says like getting culty or like, I don't know, yeah, yeah,

146
00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 1: he doesn't think he's in a cult, right, He's like,

147
00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 1: who cares if this girl likes looking at cults? This

148
00:07:59,280 --> 00:07:59,880
Speaker 1: isn't a cult.

149
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 2: It's the right correct thing. I mean.

150
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 5: I was just like, whoa, wow, wow, Well, I'm really

151
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 5: sad you didn't move in, som My.

152
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: Honestly, the pool was really really good. It was cold,

153
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: otherwise it didn't have a heater. Otherwise, I'll be honest,

154
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 1: I would be living there also, like a carpet situation.

155
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, but listen, I didn't move in. I'm

156
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 1: not going to move in. I really hope he doesn't

157
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: get mad at me because he was so so nice.

158
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 2: And polite and showed me around.

159
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,280
Speaker 1: And I don't feel totally comfortable like talking about somebody

160
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 1: like that. But it was just too weird. The whole

161
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 1: concept of this podcast, trust Me, is that you and

162
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 1: I have both been involved in cult groups.

163
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:46,839
Speaker 2: What are the.

164
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: Odds that the first house that I look at is

165
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,200
Speaker 1: going to be a cult? Apparently very high because it.

166
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 2: Was that's crazy.

167
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,200
Speaker 5: It's like you knew it just was calling to you

168
00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 5: the first one.

169
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you didn't move in, so that's the first step.

170
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 1: I didn't move in. Yeah, old me would have moved

171
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,000
Speaker 1: in without planning to be doing a documentary on it.

172
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,080
Speaker 1: So they just small step, small steps. Yes, what about you?

173
00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,559
Speaker 1: What's your cultiest thing of the week, Lola.

174
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 5: Mine is just that I found out that uh A

175
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 5: twenty four the film production company that has a cult

176
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 5: following in a very different way from the way we

177
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,560
Speaker 5: traditionally use the word cult obviously more just a rabbit

178
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 5: fan base or whatever. Yeah, they now have a theater

179
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 5: and a restaurant in New York.

180
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,560
Speaker 2: Oh, No, restaurants are the gateway.

181
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 5: They're the gateway, and they're expanding the brand to have

182
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 5: all of these other cultural things that have nothing to

183
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 5: do with the movies. And listen, I am like, I know,

184
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 5: it's like not as cool anymore because they're so big now,

185
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 5: but I still am a total A twenty four fangirl,

186
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,839
Speaker 5: and I would I want to direct movies for them

187
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 5: so badly.

188
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,720
Speaker 1: So what I'm actually saying is.

189
00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:02,840
Speaker 5: The line between cool brand and unhealthy fixation on brand

190
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 5: to levels of cultiness like it can be very blurry.

191
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:08,600
Speaker 1: I definitely still very much.

192
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,199
Speaker 5: I am obsessed with this brand and if anyone wants to

193
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 5: let me in, listen, I'm joining.

194
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,359
Speaker 1: They make incredible things, and I will say, like, obviously

195
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 1: they aren't a cults. I don't think no, but the

196
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 1: cult following, which is different. Yeah, but but it is

197
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 1: worth noting to listeners that restaurants are the gateway drugs

198
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 1: of cults. They love opening a restaurant. So whenever you

199
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 1: see a religion or a movement say we got a restaurant,

200
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 1: you can still eat there if it's good, but just beware,

201
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:39,840
Speaker 1: but listen.

202
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 5: There are people quoted in this Hollywood Reporter article which

203
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 5: is called twenty four Hours Inside the Cult of A

204
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,680
Speaker 5: twenty four, which came out today, written by Julian Sankton.

205
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 5: There are quotes from people who like are attending some

206
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,280
Speaker 5: of these events, who are like, I would do anything

207
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 5: to work for A twenty four, you know, like the

208
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 5: brand loyalty is so strong, but like I get why

209
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,720
Speaker 5: they titled it that, and they they listen, they do

210
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 5: really make the best movies.

211
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 2: Like they just obvious.

212
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm gonna make one one day.

213
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,319
Speaker 5: And when we do our inevitable East Coast trust me

214
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,439
Speaker 5: trip for some reason, we will go to the restaurant

215
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:20,600
Speaker 5: and we will report back.

216
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have our live show at the age twenty

217
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 1: four restaurant. Oh my god, totally, thank you, good job.

218
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,480
Speaker 1: All right, should we start talking to Nomes now?

219
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 2: I think we absolutely must.

220
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:35,200
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

221
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:47,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

222
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,680
Speaker 5: So up until the raid, you're like Tolga and Christina

223
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 5: are a little sus And then the RAI raid happens, which,

224
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 5: first of all, was that like insanely traumatic? Like what

225
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 5: what did you think on the day of the raid?

226
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,120
Speaker 3: Yes, it was very traumatic, very chaotic. We were all

227
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:11,280
Speaker 3: desperate and terrified, especially being told against the government, being

228
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,960
Speaker 3: trained and taught and raised, thinking these people are always

229
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,720
Speaker 3: going to be out to get us, right, then, it

230
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:24,000
Speaker 3: was terrifying. And I believe Sam knew before they came,

231
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 3: because the few weeks between his first arrest and the

232
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 3: raid then he was very paranoid and he started clamping down.

233
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 3: They were the most intense weeks, and he started telling

234
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 3: us how to respond to these police officers, and he

235
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,040
Speaker 3: started talking about they're going to try to take me

236
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 3: from you, and he would talk about lying like hell

237
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 3: if we had to, or answer them nothing right, And

238
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,719
Speaker 3: I remember him getting very adamant, very area about that,

239
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 3: and we were still clueless what was going to happen.

240
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 5: Was it the Do you think it was the arrest

241
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,440
Speaker 5: with the trailer that triggered his paranoia? Like what do

242
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 5: you think was making him so paranoid?

243
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I do. I do remember him saying

244
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 3: things that I remember Tolga even saying things Toga like

245
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,079
Speaker 3: just be just tell the truth, just tell them everything.

246
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 3: Because yes, after the first arrest, and he was really paranoid,

247
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 3: and then Toga started dropping these huge hints that I'm

248
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 3: shocked that he didn't catch on too, because total the'd

249
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,600
Speaker 3: be like, yep, they're gonna come in and take you

250
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 3: and just tell the truth. And he would also say

251
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 3: say things like have the younger girls with their mothers,

252
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 3: like send them back with the moms. Don't don't have

253
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 3: anything to do with them. He tried, Toga really tried

254
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 3: to warn Sam that he was doing the wrong. And

255
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 3: thinking back now, I think that Tolgo was very very

256
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,080
Speaker 3: disturbed with Sam, and he it was all he could

257
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,680
Speaker 3: have to not to strangle him.

258
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, it makes sense.

259
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like just act like all this stuff was

260
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 3: amazing that he was doing when he's hiking in his.

261
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 1: Him saying, Wow, that's amazing. It's just to have one

262
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 1: ounce of Sam's motorcycle confidence. I know, I couldn't be

263
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 1: the president. What do you think his obsession with the

264
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 1: queen was about? Oh?

265
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 2: What the heck was that?

266
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320
Speaker 3: I can tell, Like I mean, I was just video

267
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 3: and earlier telling about that, because, like I get, I'm

268
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 3: getting a lot of people asking me to tell the

269
00:14:54,640 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 3: story behind the Queen of England. I mean, it is

270
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,320
Speaker 3: pretty wild, it's kind of crazy. But one morning he

271
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 3: came in and talked about he had this dream and

272
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 3: in the dream then it was so random too, it

273
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 3: was very random, he said. In his dream then he

274
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 3: was with the Queen of England and he was kissing

275
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 3: her wrists. Oh and as the days went by, then

276
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 3: pretty soon he started talking about how the Queen of

277
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 3: England belonged to him, belonged to his family, and then

278
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 3: he started saying things like he's going to marry the

279
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 3: Queen of England and therefore he would be King of England. R.

280
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there, that's what the goal is.

281
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,400
Speaker 5: But weren't there other people besides the queen too that

282
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,600
Speaker 5: he was convinced, like weren't there other famous people.

283
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 3: There was this singer lady, I don't exactly remember her name,

284
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,360
Speaker 3: and then there was Christine, and he started telling us

285
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 3: like Christine's going to be your sister wives and stuff.

286
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 3: And then there was Elie in.

287
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 5: Meryl, sorry at least in Meryl for context, are are

288
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 5: my friends since you know, since I was nineteen or something, And.

289
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,479
Speaker 3: They came and helped with a lot of the filming.

290
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: The filming in the town.

291
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is before Netflix was ever involved, but Elise

292
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 5: had filmed some and stuff, and maryl was her twin

293
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 5: sister who also did a little bit of filming in

294
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 5: the town.

295
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: That's that's so funny.

296
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 3: But that was that was the time when it was

297
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,400
Speaker 3: when he brought up Elisa and Meryl, when I finally

298
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 3: came up with the audacity to question him, And in

299
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 3: the way I questioned him was kind of very hesitant,

300
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 3: very and I still was very I was very punished

301
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 3: for it. So what happened was one night then after Tolgian,

302
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 3: Christine and ELISEA and Merrill came Olbur and was helping

303
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 3: with the filming of his birthday party or something. And

304
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 3: that night then he gathered us all around, and he

305
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,560
Speaker 3: said something to the effect of those girls belong in

306
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 3: my family. And I finally had the courage and I said,

307
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 3: I'm tempted to think evil of you, because every girl

308
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 3: you see that's pretty or something's happening in their life

309
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,400
Speaker 3: that they're doing, then they suddenly belonged to you.

310
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 2: Wow.

311
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 3: He did not like that.

312
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine he didn't.

313
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,280
Speaker 3: He didn't have any explanation, explanation to me why, and

314
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 3: he just told me to pack my stuff. And then

315
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 3: I was vanished for three months out living in that

316
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,880
Speaker 3: box trailer out on Bailmland.

317
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

318
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, spend a few months out there and with him.

319
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: A lot, and oh okay, he was there, yes.

320
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 3: And then he would have different girls and women out there,

321
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 3: and he kept telling he told them that I was

322
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,879
Speaker 3: always out there because the old man were lusting after me.

323
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,280
Speaker 3: And then he would tell me why it was because

324
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 3: I was questioning him and he would say, like, because

325
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 3: you think you're smarter than me, Well technically I.

326
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 2: Was any scale.

327
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is really hard to square like with him

328
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 5: in particular, like because sometimes we'll talk to people and like.

329
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: Their cult leader or their profit or whatever.

330
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,639
Speaker 5: Like it was clearly very smart and very capable, and

331
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 5: just like you know, with Sam, I'm like, it's it's

332
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 5: hard to square how goofy and like dorky he is

333
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 5: with how evil he is, Like I feel like those

334
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 5: things aren't supposed to go together, you know what I mean?

335
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 3: Well, truthfully, all the trending videos mocking him, I feel

336
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 3: very validated. I feel like, yes, like he deserves it.

337
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly, I'm going to compensate for this.

338
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 3: I will tell more crazy stupid things that he did

339
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 3: that was so bizarre.

340
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, are there any you haven't told tons? Give us one.

341
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 3: Well, there's the Queen of England thing, there's All of

342
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 3: his goals were pretty bizarre, and even his marble palace stuff.

343
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 3: I remember questioning him about that, and it got so

344
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 3: it got to a point where I was so terrified

345
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,120
Speaker 3: to approach him on different things. And when I would

346
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 3: say something, one of the other girls I remember her

347
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,439
Speaker 3: coming to me and she said, if you'd learned to

348
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,159
Speaker 3: shut up, then he wouldn't punish you so much. And

349
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 3: then that night then she got up in front of

350
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 3: everyone and said something about tempted to always continually thinkingful

351
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 3: of notes because she always she always says things that

352
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 3: are that get her in trouble.

353
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 1: Wow, reble at heart is what I'm hearing.

354
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: I'm on me too.

355
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,199
Speaker 3: I feel like I was ninety nine percent committed, but

356
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 3: oh that one percent saved me.

357
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 4: Right.

358
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,239
Speaker 1: Just to address Sam's goofiness with how evil he was,

359
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: I feel like he would have never been able to

360
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 1: do even a single ounce of it. About the three

361
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: other men, I feel like once those men were like

362
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 1: contributing the money, and then he had the time to

363
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: end a little bit more resources.

364
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 3: And also he got all the girls from.

365
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: Them, exactly right, that's a good point.

366
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 3: All of the women he had were from either those

367
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 3: men's daughters or their caretake keys.

368
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it kind yeah it just

369
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: power is interesting.

370
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at how it can be.

371
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 5: Right, It's not just like pure charisma, Like, you also

372
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 5: need some of these you need support, you need material.

373
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 3: They kind of like fed the monster though.

374
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

375
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 3: Oh through the whole entire experience.

376
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 5: Indeed, indeed, okay, talk about running away from the cops.

377
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: We have to know.

378
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: If you want.

379
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 3: I really don't remember a lot of that. I remember

380
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 3: them coming in and asking me where the nine minor

381
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: girls were or they eight at the time. That was

382
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 3: eight that had ran away. I remember them coming in

383
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 3: and asking me, and at that point I had no idea. Yeah,

384
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 3: I really didn't know because they had gone with Maretta.

385
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 5: Oh sorry, okay, I'm skipping ahead. So just for context,

386
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 5: So the raid happened, Sam gets arrested, some of these

387
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 5: the underage girls get put into foster care, and.

388
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 3: Then they nine the nine underage nine girls that he

389
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 3: was claiming at saying that were his wives. Then they

390
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 3: went into foster care.

391
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 5: They ran away, and they and but they ran away

392
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 5: with the help of yes, with some of the adults,

393
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 5: adult women.

394
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 3: Right, We didn't really tell many to run away or anything.

395
00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 3: That was something they came up with, and Sam told

396
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 3: them to. He kept telling them to. They actually ran

397
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 3: away like four times before that, but it was when

398
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 3: we were still in before Christine and Toga had been outed,

399
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 3: and so we would tell Christine and Toga, and Christine

400
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: would say tell them to cooperate. Just the faster the

401
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 3: more they cooperate, the sooner that the moms will get

402
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 3: them back. Then the DCS outed Christine and Sam had

403
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 3: us all caught all communication anything with Christine and Toga.

404
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: I still can't believe they did that this documentary really

405
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: highlights all the failures of our systems. You know. Number one,

406
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: you tell the police that a bunch of people are

407
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 1: being raped and they don't give a shit. Number Two,

408
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: you have to prove so much to get people involved

409
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: in then this detail that you're talking about now, as

410
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: well as just letting Sam call the girls find Yeah,

411
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: I know that was crazy.

412
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: He should have had his communication cut because he was

413
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: communicating with the minors through the adults horrible, which is

414
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 3: kind of weird because I wasn't like the lead person

415
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 3: in that. It was the moms. I mean, they weren't

416
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 3: my siblings, they weren't my kids. It was their moms

417
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: that the communication was coming through, and I was just

418
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 3: one of them going along with them.

419
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 5: So he's instructing from jail, Yes, the girls to run away.

420
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, after Christine and Togo were cut off, then the

421
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 3: fourth time they ran doing what Sam told them to.

422
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: Then he said if they run again, like he encouraged

423
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 3: them to run, and then he told us go pick

424
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: them up and run, and so we did. We were

425
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 3: just being obedient, doing whatever he said. And that was

426
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 3: another time where I questioned, only very carefully. Then I said,

427
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 3: what they're going to do to us because they had

428
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: taken him, they'd taken them, right, and I was starting

429
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: to wonder, what's going to happen to us now, right right?

430
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: And the weird thing is this prison didn't even cross

431
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: my mind. I thought more of more raids, more interviews

432
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: and interrogations with the FBI, but not prison. But he

433
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: kind of blew that off and he said, well, they

434
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 3: already did the worst thing because they took me.

435
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

436
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 3: And in the culty mindset that I was in the

437
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: I was just like, oh, yeah, that is the worst thing.

438
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: He risked our lives.

439
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and yeah.

440
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 3: So we went down there and we picked him up

441
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: from under the freeway bridge. To this day, I have

442
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 3: no idea where those group homes were. I've never known

443
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: the addresses to them.

444
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 5: Oh oh well, okay, and that was Yeah, that was

445
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 5: like extremely orchestrated because it was more from more than

446
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 5: one home at the same time.

447
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a lot of coordinations.

448
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 3: And a lot of it had to do with not

449
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 3: just the three that went and picked them up. We

450
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: were just the minions. It was the entire group.

451
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

452
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 5: So at that point, you're still a SAM believer and

453
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 5: then then what happens you get arrested?

454
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: I went so me I was there for picking up

455
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 3: three of them. There was eight of them, and then

456
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 3: we dropped them off with Maretta and she took all

457
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: eight of them to Washington and I went back to

458
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: the greenhouse. Then the cops showed up and they they

459
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: asked me my name, they asked me where. They a

460
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: ton of questions about where the minor girls were, and

461
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: I had no idea because there was no communication going

462
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 3: on at the time because they started cutting. They finally

463
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: started cutting Sam off and banned all his calls, so

464
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: we were all just lost what we're supposed to do.

465
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: And then after he asked him all these questions, then

466
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: he said, you're under arrest. The next thing I remembered,

467
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: I was running in the mountains.

468
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: So you you just took up.

469
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 3: Yes, it was adrenaline.

470
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

471
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 3: Seeing the video then I'm like, oh, that's what I did.

472
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 3: I had no.

473
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 5: Knowledge of this, watching an episode of Cops, which I

474
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 5: guess you never would have watched growing up.

475
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: But it's crazy. But it's you. It's tiny. You like,

476
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: it's so wild.

477
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is kind of wild to me. Yeah. The

478
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: next thing memory I had I was running in the mountains,

479
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: and I started thinking, why am I under arrest? What

480
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: did I do? And am I really running from the cops?

481
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: Like this is this is wild? So I went back

482
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 3: to turn myself in. Didn't have the courage to climbed

483
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 3: up and then climbed underneath a box trailer in the

484
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: neighbor's yard and climbed up in the axle and waited

485
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: there all night.

486
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: It broke my heart when you said in the dock

487
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: that your lag froze.

488
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: It was it, it did, it froze really bad. I

489
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 3: had to go through a little bit of physical therapy

490
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: even in prison.

491
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

492
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: Wow.

493
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just really contextualizes how much pain.

494
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 5: And yeah, yeah, you have had the most one of

495
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 5: the more extreme journeys of folks we've talked to on

496
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 5: here for sure, I mean.

497
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: On the planet Earth.

498
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, well we talked, we

499
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 5: talked to people from cults every week, but like, this

500
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 5: is just so extreme. So we are dying to know

501
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 5: about prison if you're willing to share.

502
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: But I guess before we get there.

503
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 5: I mean, you obviously had to go to you get arrested,

504
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 5: you go to trial like that must have been terrifying.

505
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: I went to It was interesting how even after turning

506
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: myself in, I didn't know why until three days later

507
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 3: when I was standing in front of the judge and

508
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 3: the judge explained why I was arrested, and allegedly it

509
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 3: was for the kidnapping. It was conspiracy to kidnapping because

510
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 3: I was involved in that. And I remember even then

511
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: thinking thoughts like I didn't kidnap and I didn't go

512
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: on their property they ran. It was very a very

513
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: confusing time. But I also remember telling my attorney literally

514
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: days after my arrest that I was really glad to

515
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: be in there because it was over and I wasn't

516
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 3: talking about like I was Again, I wasn't against Sam

517
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: at the moment. I was more like thinking, God is

518
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: going to justify me not having to do what he's

519
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: saying because I'm.

520
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: In here, right. So God was through breaking you guys up.

521
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: God was kind of giving you an out from his

522
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: control for a minute to regroup.

523
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's what it was.

524
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 5: The mindset was crazy, you have to go to prison

525
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 5: to get your freedom? Is that's bunkers.

526
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: It was.

527
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: It was very culture shocking.

528
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, okay, tell us who was like the

529
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: first person you met, what was the like, what was

530
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: it like getting.

531
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: I actually don't really remember a lot of the names,

532
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: like for the first few months because I was under

533
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: this trence of culture shock. Then the news came over

534
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: of the whole traffic stop in flag Staff, and now

535
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: I wasn't there, and so I got beat up really

536
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: bad within the first two weeks. They put me in

537
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 3: segregation for six weeks in medical and until I healed,

538
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 3: and then they put me back in gen Pop where

539
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: I was, but was kind of crazy. The people and

540
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: there were so interesting. They were so fascinating to me

541
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 3: because my whole life everybody was the same, but to

542
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: see the individuality and the variety, and these were all

543
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: criminals or waiting to you know, they weren't convicted, but

544
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: there were people that had done bad things and waiting

545
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: for the judge to decide their sentences. But they were

546
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 3: just so fascinating to me. And even the ones that

547
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: had beat me up, Like when I came back and

548
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: they were they were kind of strange because they were like,

549
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: oh my god, like you're pretty brave to come back here,

550
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: like like I had a choice and then wanted to

551
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: be my friend.

552
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: It was.

553
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: It was really strange.

554
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: Did you make friends with anyone in particular?

555
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: Like?

556
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: Are there women you're like?

557
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: That?

558
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: Girl? Ruled?

559
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 3: I mostly just I wouldn't necessarily call them friends because

560
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 3: I knew nothing about their life before and there was

561
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: no way to fact check it. But I did what's

562
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: the word homies? I guess I did have a lot

563
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: of homies and there we did did a lot of

564
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: things together, and we like play games, and I learned

565
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: how to gamble and play different stop at gambling games,

566
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: card games, and even different board games like scrabble, Monopoly

567
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: and chess and things like that.

568
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: Were you like having some fun at first?

569
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: No? At first it was so it was so numb,

570
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: and I was still processing everything and questioning, starting to

571
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 3: wonder about my belief. Of course, yeah, like I have

572
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 3: been perfectly obedient to God. I have done everything he

573
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: wanted me to do, and here I am in prison

574
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 3: for what's going on.

575
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: I One of my favorite parts of the documentary, well

576
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: it's so again a failure in the system is when

577
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: they put you in a cell next to Sam like

578
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: so you guys hate.

579
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: I never understood why they did that.

580
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: So maddening because that could have gone the exact opposite

581
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: direction that it went.

582
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: It could have, and it did. Prison actually did that

583
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: with some of the other adult women. Then it drove

584
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 3: them deeper.

585
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: In of course. So they put you in a holding

586
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: cell next to Sam so you can talk to this

587
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: person that you're finally getting some freedom from. And he goes, oh,

588
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: it's so good to talk to you. I haven't talked

589
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: to anybody in a year.

590
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: That was He said a lot more than that, but

591
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: that was just the only part so they could actually

592
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 3: fit in the documentary. But it was like several things

593
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 3: that he said that I started recognizing he's lying.

594
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: That's a lie, right he has You were like, yes,

595
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: it hasn't been a year since.

596
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: Even the thoughts, even the thoughts like that. Then I

597
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: had to build up to those like mm hmm. In

598
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: prison was when I got introduced to different novels and

599
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 3: self help books. And because I was so confused about

600
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: my beliefs, then I read through the entire history of

601
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: the church because of the different LDS people that were

602
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: in there, and they have to grant their religious beliefs,

603
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: so they had all the journals, they had all the

604
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: history of the church stuff. They had a lot of

605
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 3: a lot of like scriptures in there, and being raised

606
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: on these scriptures and now being so confused. Then I

607
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: went and did this deep dive, and the dots still

608
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: weren't connecting. And then I started reading into I'm reading

609
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: into other religions. I read fourteen different versions of the Bible. Wow,

610
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: I mean twenty one months is a long time in there,

611
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: and I was being a really fastrated. Then I would

612
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: just go through these books, and then I started reading

613
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 3: self help books, and that was when I started to

614
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: question things because I would read books like there was

615
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: one that I really gravitated toward and it was called

616
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 3: The Pathway to Surrender Letting Go, and the whole book

617
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 3: was about owning the truth. And my entire life, I

618
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 3: had been taught to keep everything secret, right or lie

619
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: about it, and then here in this book then it's

620
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: saying it sets you free if you just own it

621
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 3: and tell the truth. And that was one of the

622
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: that was when I started to wonder, like, so why

623
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: do I believe the way I believe? Because it would

624
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: talk about that too, and it said, also question everything,

625
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 3: because that's the only way you're going to find the

626
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: truth is if you question everything. And being not allowed

627
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 3: to question anything growing up. Then it was just so

628
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: fascinating to me.

629
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: Whoa yeah.

630
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 3: So in that mindset, I still didn't dare question Sam

631
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 3: or because every time I questioned him, in my mind,

632
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: it would defer to Warren Jess because they were very

633
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: much the same. And Sam was using his trainings, he

634
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 3: was using his pershonal diaries, and that's where he was

635
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 3: getting a lot of his ideas, right. It wasn't until

636
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: that court hearing and that time sitting there and listening

637
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: to him talk to me for four hours and just

638
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 3: lie after a lie, and I was in a position

639
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: I was like in my mindset where I'm starting to

640
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: recognize this.

641
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: So you had already read this book that talked about

642
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 5: the value of truth when you were placed next to

643
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 5: Sam in the cell.

644
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: Yes, wow, thank god too?

645
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank god, thank god?

646
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Wow?

647
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: Did you play kahem? Are you like? Oh my gosh, yes, yes.

648
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: At first I did. Yeah. I remember just being so

649
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 3: shocked at his bold audacity to lie like so much.

650
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: And then in my mind I started questioning things even

651
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 3: sitting there, like, oh my god, he's lying to me.

652
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 3: How many times has he lied to me? And then

653
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: everything started like coming up in my mind like this

654
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: whole time, he's been lying to me, and he hurt

655
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 3: me so much in all these different areas, and he

656
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: would use God and he would use a lot of

657
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: blackmailing and lying, and it was yeah, in those moments

658
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: that I would so I would started to kind of yeah,

659
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: play into it, and he would lie more. And then

660
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 3: when they finally came, his like came to take us

661
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: back to the prisoner, back to the jail. Then when

662
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: I was walking away, the last words that I ever

663
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 3: said to him is you lie to me. Wow. And

664
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: then that was the last.

665
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: Things I have, Oh God, chills.

666
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 3: That was the last time I saw him. After that,

667
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: I asked my attorneys, I never want to see him again.

668
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 3: If there's every a group court hearing, which shows a

669
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: lot of those, I don't want to be there. So

670
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: they started to wait my presence and my attorneys would go,

671
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 3: but I didn't have to go anymore.

672
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

673
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: So that was the last time I saw him. And

674
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: the last words.

675
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I still have chills. They're still chilling.

676
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: The chills are chilling. I'm crying, I'm chilling, I'm laughing. No,

677
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, how long have you been in jail at

678
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: that point.

679
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: By once I think it was was arrested in I

680
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 3: was arrested in December of twenty twenty two, on the

681
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 3: second of December, and then I was I think it

682
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: was around May when that happened.

683
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 5: I mean, it's amazing. It's like you've been educating yourself.

684
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 5: If you've been learning, you've been learning, and then he

685
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 5: just tells on himself like you just kind of did yeah,

686
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 5: like he kind.

687
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: Of have to say any do that in that moment.

688
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: Well he was so dumb, he really was, But I said, awesome.

689
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 3: I mean it was after that that I started to

690
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 3: deconstruct even more and more because I remember going back

691
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 3: to the jail and then I finally dared think questions

692
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 3: against Warren Jeffs And that was when basically the house

693
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: of cards just crumbled. Wow. And I started like, oh

694
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 3: my god, I was born and raised in lies. Yeah,

695
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 3: And it was insane, it was scary. I went through

696
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: very The next few months were very dark for me,

697
00:38:54,560 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: attempted suicide. It was just the grief, the loss and

698
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: knowing I'm never going back to any anything that has

699
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: to do with the FLDS.

700
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: Wow.

701
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: And then the old whole outside world was so scary

702
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 3: to me. I knew nothing about it. I was getting

703
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: a crush course on it in prison.

704
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was still so scary.

705
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 5: It was well, yeah, because that's not that's also just

706
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 5: that's the other extreme, right, Like, yes.

707
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 3: It was definitely something that I've had to heal from.

708
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 2: And to deconstruct that fast.

709
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: You would like in the normal world, they'd be like,

710
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: you should go to and patient treatment, you know.

711
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: I actually did, Oh good, I have for six months

712
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 3: and I went to therapy. I went like twice.

713
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: A week, and during your prisons today.

714
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 3: Yes, because I was so after realizing the truth and

715
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: then going through these dark months of suicidal and the grief,

716
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: the loss, the anger, and the shame and guilt for

717
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: even existing, then started going to therapy. And even then

718
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 3: I was so terrified to open up to the FBI

719
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: after I knew too. When I finally opened up to

720
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 3: the FBI, it was an eight month period. In six

721
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 3: months of that time, I was in therapy and they

722
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: were talking me through a lot of this. And when

723
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: I did find the open up to the FBI, just

724
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 3: accepting that I had been lied to my whole life

725
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: and here I am with this huge criminal charge that

726
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: didn't really even belong to me. Then, just the acceptance

727
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 3: of that was it took a lot to accept that

728
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: I had been lied to and the only way forward

729
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: is to completely let go of everything in my past,

730
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: and that included my family.

731
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Wow, oh, are you going through that?

732
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 5: So you're able to go to a therapy program, which

733
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 5: that's great that they had that available to you, But

734
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 5: are you talking to anyone anyone else about what about

735
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 5: this deconstruction that's happening.

736
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 3: No. At the time, it was just I would get

737
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: on the phones with the people that were still in

738
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: and every time they brought it up, then I would

739
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,919
Speaker 3: just I don't want to talk about it. I don't

740
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: want to talk about it, And so we would talk

741
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 3: about anything else other than that. And Moretta was in

742
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 3: the pod next to me, and she was going through

743
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 3: the same thing, but we couldn't talk about it, and

744
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 3: even our attorneys were warning us not to talk about

745
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: it to each other the case and our lives before

746
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 3: and everything, but we started to hint things and it

747
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: wasn't until trial that I found out Moretta was also

748
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: had turned and was on the opposite side, and she

749
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: was also testifying against him, and that was such a

750
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: relief to be like, oh, I have somebody on my

751
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 3: side here.

752
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I cannot imagine how isolating that must have

753
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 5: felt and how dark that must have been. I mean, yeah,

754
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 5: there's just like no worse way to like exactly what

755
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 5: Megan was saying, Like it's already so challenging for people.

756
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 5: It's like turning their whole lives upside down, like everything they've.

757
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: Believed in is wrong.

758
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 5: Everyone they love is like they're alienated from them now,

759
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 5: Like no matter what, that's traumatic and no matter what,

760
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 5: that's like the crazy life transition. But then also to

761
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 5: be going through it alone in jail for months, like girl, yep,

762
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 5: oh my god.

763
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 3: I don't know how I got through it, honestly. Yeah,

764
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 3: even I look back on those days and the things

765
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 3: that were going through inside and the realization the transition,

766
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: the deconstruction, It was so heavy. But I do remember

767
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 3: having thoughts of a year towards Sam and in my

768
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 3: mind thinking as soon as I'm getting out, I'm making

769
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: a commitment that I will do anything I can to

770
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 3: stop him and anybody like him, because I was so angry.

771
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: But the anchor came after the grief and loss, and

772
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 3: I journaled a lot of it.

773
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and drew a lot too.

774
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: It seems like you got to be back with your

775
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: artist self that was like pushed down when you were.

776
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also would write a lot about it too.

777
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 3: I wrote poems and got into writing different songs about it.

778
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 3: That helped me process a lot, helped me release it

779
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 3: a lot was my art and my poems, nice and

780
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: singing about it. I even remember the song that just

781
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 3: resonated with me because I had no exposure to the

782
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 3: outside music it was. It came on MTV and it

783
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 3: was Olivia Rodrigo singing Vampire. I love that song and

784
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,479
Speaker 3: I was I remember feeling like, this is my song?

785
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 3: He did he sold me for parts.

786
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: And yeah, he.

787
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 3: Everything about that song. I just resonated with it.

788
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: Wow. I wish we could play it.

789
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 5: I bet we can't get but we're not allowed to,

790
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 5: but I wish I could.

791
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: I just did it justice. Oh, I know that sounded

792
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 2: exactly what the same?

793
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, Olly, I'm sorry, but I just remembered when you

794
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 5: came to film Quest and showed a video it was her,

795
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 5: right or was it someone else that was her?

796
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: It was her?

797
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: Do you want to tell that story?

798
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: So?

799
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I recorded my right after prison. It was

800
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: like a few months after then. I videoed myself singing

801
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: Vampire and some of my friends in New York contacted

802
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: Olivia Rodrigol and end it to her. I think I

803
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 3: would have done a better job if they if I

804
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: knew they were going to send it to the artist. Anyway,

805
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: So last year, on my birthday, she reached out to me,

806
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: what and she was like, I heard your story and

807
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 3: I'm rooting for you, and you did such a very

808
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: good cover of that song. Oh I'm still blown away

809
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: thinking about That's unbelieved.

810
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: I know, it's so cool. That was so cool of her. Yeah, wow,

811
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: how did you have friends in New York?

812
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 3: They were through the filming of the Netflix documentary Who

813
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 3: Who Was? It?

814
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: Was it that it was like the dark people nails Sharon.

815
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 3: I think that's how Sarah how to say his name

816
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 3: and his girlfriend agree that connected.

817
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: That deconstructing that fast and moving to.

818
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 1: New York and I integrating And did you get out first?

819
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 5: I just want to know the timeline of Sam getting

820
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 5: convicted versus you getting out which one came first.

821
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: So I was actually released on pre trial in September

822
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four. Okay. Then I went to sentencing

823
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: four months later before Sam was sentenced.

824
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: Okay, got it.

825
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: During that time, then the whole trial happened against Liddell

826
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 3: and Torrance.

827
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: Okay, did you go to any event.

828
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: Yes, I had to testify. I was on the stand

829
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 3: for two days.

830
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

831
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, was that rough? It kind of was. It was

832
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 3: five days after I had been released from prison. WHOA,

833
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 3: the overwhelming being reintroduced to society, but not just introduced

834
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: to society, but to a new life that I had

835
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: never experienced. Plus five days later sitting on the stand

836
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 3: talking about this very sensitive, horrific things that happened to

837
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 3: me and things that I had witnessed. It was a

838
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: lot of pressure. And even after trial then I remember

839
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: this break in the middle of testifying and going into

840
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: the restroom and just throwing up and throwing up, and

841
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 3: then I'd go back out there. You don't on the stand.

842
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: Was anyone there with you to support you?

843
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 3: My aunt Carol? Okay, she was the one that came

844
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 3: down there and signed it to because I can't remember

845
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: what it's called, but you have to have somebody that

846
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: has that you're signed off to when you're on a

847
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 3: great trial, and she was the one that I was

848
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 3: signed to okay, and then she supported me through the

849
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 3: trial and the four next months. And during those months

850
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 3: I got really sick because everything was so overwhelming, and

851
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 3: I got really sick and I couldn't hold anything down

852
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,479
Speaker 3: and lost a lot of weight, and it was really rough,

853
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: and I didn't feel free at all. During those months.

854
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 3: I felt more overwhelming and scared and everything was so

855
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 3: new and then readapting to society. I remember a lot

856
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: of nights I would sleep on the floor because the

857
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 3: bed was too soft and it was too quiet, and

858
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: being able to just walk around without an officer yelling

859
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 3: at you for being in the wrong place, and it

860
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 3: was definitely something I had to adapt to, as well

861
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: as the choices, the abundance of opportunities and choices that

862
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 3: I could do with my life.

863
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: It was a lot to accept, overwhelming.

864
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: Where were you living?

865
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 3: I was living with my aunt and I went back

866
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: to Colorado City and was living with her.

867
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: Do you remember the first moment that it maybe felt

868
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: more exciting than scarier, like like the future might be exciting.

869
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 3: It was after I was sentenced, because during those few

870
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 3: months of being released on pre trial and sentencing. I

871
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 3: had no idea what was going to happen with my life. Yeah,

872
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: I didn't know if they were going to send me back.

873
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 3: I didn't know if if I should. I didn't know

874
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: if I dared plan for a future.

875
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

876
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: Right. It was after I was sentenced. Then it was

877
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 3: such a relief. Yeah, And I started feeling like I

878
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: could explore more. And then I started experiencing more. And

879
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact moments, but I do remember,

880
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: like several other things. I don't remember if it was

881
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 3: the first moment, but I remember the first time I

882
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 3: got to eat out at a restaurant and that was

883
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 3: exciting and new. And the first time I went to

884
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 3: the theater and watched a movie. Yeah, that was another

885
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: very exciting thing. And I started to save the different

886
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: tickets and receipts and different things that I tried for

887
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 3: the first time. Wow, And I started this book called

888
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 3: My First Time Book. Oh, like the first time going

889
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 3: to Vegas and walking down the strip. It was so

890
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 3: mind blowing.

891
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm so wow.

892
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: I mean, and I relate to this.

893
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 1: I don't mean any shade by this because I relate

894
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: to this for my own upbringing, but it's like bringing

895
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: somebody from the seventeen hundreds to like twenty twenty whatever,

896
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: and you're like, here you go, and you're like, like

897
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: so many lights, so many sounds, I can't even imagine.

898
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. I do keep even now then, I

899
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 3: have kept this book of my first time book, first

900
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: time I went to New York, the first time I

901
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 3: went up to Idaho, like different places that I went. Yes,

902
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 3: I call it my first time book, and I have

903
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 3: tons of different pictures and receipts and the feelings about it.

904
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 1: What's the most exciting thing you've done for the first time?

905
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 3: Oh, all of them are quite equal. And I don't

906
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 3: remember my first roller coaster ride, and it was at

907
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 3: the New York New York in Vegas.

908
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: That's a scary one.

909
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't. To me.

910
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: It felt like I was finally equalizing the emotions inside.

911
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: Basically you're like, this is what it feels like in

912
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: my body.

913
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

914
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was totally chilled, just relaxed.

915
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: So funny Gnomes, I can't believe that.

916
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 5: How did you How did you reconnect with my mom

917
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 5: because last when you went into jail you hated her.

918
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 3: Yes, it took I would say two years exactly, because

919
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 3: I went to prison on decen December second, and was

920
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 3: and then was sentenced on December second of two, twenty four,

921
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 3: exactly two years later.

922
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

923
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: So I don't know how the dates lined up, which

924
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: is kind of ironic with the whole trial too. The

925
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 3: first day that I testified was September thirteenth, which was

926
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 3: two years to the day exactly from the day that

927
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 3: was we were raided by the FBI in twenty twenty two. Wow,

928
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 3: So it's kind of ironic how things landed like that.

929
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 3: But on my way down to sentencing, I at this

930
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 3: time was still very angry at Christine for what she

931
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: had done, and I didn't understand her, and I also

932
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 3: I was very against them. I hated him and was

933
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 3: committed to talking out against him, and yet I didn't

934
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 3: understand Christine's role because the whole time I knew her,

935
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 3: then she was kind of befriending him and then betrayed

936
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 3: us with that. So I didn't like her for those

937
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 3: those two years, but I was really sorry for the

938
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 3: things that I'd sent her, and I remember even in

939
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 3: prison then I texted Tolga and told him how sorry

940
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 3: I was. From prison, I had called her for really

941
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 3: bad names and texted her and toldan called him trader

942
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 3: and all this stuff. But so after I was released,

943
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 3: then I finally felt like I could could find in

944
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 3: my aunt and I told her what I felt and

945
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 3: how I felt about Christine and Tolga. She didn't agree,

946
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: and she would just say things like, I think that

947
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 3: you should talk to her first. And little did I

948
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 3: know that she was in cohoots with Christine and she

949
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 3: was telling Christine how I was doing. I wasn't allowed

950
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 3: to talk to her during those months because of all

951
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 3: the trial stuff, and she was another witness in the trial.

952
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 3: It was Yeah, it was a very intense time. But

953
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 3: so on the way down to sentencing, then Christine sent

954
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: me a podcast, actually with You. Oh yes, it was

955
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: a trust me podcast of her telling briefly telling her

956
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 3: story what happened to her. I listened to that on

957
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 3: the way down to Phoenix and had an entire paradigm shift.

958
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 3: I had no idea what her life was. I didn't

959
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: know why she did what she did until I listened

960
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 3: to that, and I had this whole I don't know awakening, like,

961
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 3: oh my god, our lives are so similar. She went

962
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: through exact same experiences as me. The next day, when

963
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 3: I was sentenced to time served and I knew that

964
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: I was safe and I would not be going back

965
00:54:54,680 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 3: and I was free, then I told my aunt that

966
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 3: I really needed to talk to Christine. And the next

967
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 3: day we went and talked to her and it ended

968
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 3: up being a very long conversation. We were up all

969
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 3: night and it was emotional. And what was so interesting

970
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: that day was the first thing she said to me was,

971
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 3: you don't have to prove yourself. I already know. I

972
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 3: already know what you've been through, And up until then

973
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 3: then I felt like I was constantly trying to prove

974
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 3: myself that I was a good person. Anyway, that was

975
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 3: when I reconnected and we just got closer and closer

976
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 3: since she became like my adopted godmother and.

977
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 5: Oh, I mean Sam, Yeah, she's like she's America's mother.

978
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 3: I feel like she she played such a big, huge part,

979
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 3: a big role in my deconstructing because she knows about

980
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 3: the outside world a lot more than me, and she's

981
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 3: not helped me navigate my life, and I feel like

982
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: that's a huge reason why I'm out so much and

983
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 3: I've been able to process and deconstruct so fast was

984
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 3: because of her.

985
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah that's amazing. Well how are you doing now? How

986
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: are you feeling?

987
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 5: You have the whole world is knows who you are

988
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 5: now and hopefully even seems like very supportive, like what

989
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 5: does the future whole?

990
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't expect thus much support. It was crazy,

991
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 3: Like when I did this show, I was expecting more

992
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 3: hate because I was being very vulnerable telling exactly how

993
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 3: it was very honest, and I expected more judgment and hate.

994
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 3: But it has been the expect talk of that, except

995
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 3: with a lot of local people.

996
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there, that's a whole other thing.

997
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm still I'm getting used to it. I guess

998
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: it's kind of new to be recognized everywhere.

999
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh, So.

1000
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 3: It is something I'm getting used to. I don't know.

1001
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 3: I feel like I did. I was the one that

1002
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: was very committed in talking about this and bringing this awareness,

1003
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 3: and so I want to just accept this new life

1004
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 3: that I'm getting have to at this point.

1005
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 5: Well, I am so proud of you. I can't believe

1006
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 5: how far you've come. I mean, we all can't. It's

1007
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 5: amazing to see you now, a free woman thinking for herself,

1008
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 5: looking so beautiful.

1009
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1010
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: It's so inspired.

1011
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 5: I know, and you you're dating and I'm just like,

1012
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's amazing.

1013
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: You're so impressive. Gnomes, thank you. Yeah, You're just a

1014
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: force of nature and letting us be a part of it.

1015
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 3: I want to prove that you can recover from really

1016
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 3: horrible things that happened in your past. You can recover.

1017
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 3: It takes a lot of work inside, but it's possible.

1018
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: Can you give somebody who's maybe in the darkest moment,

1019
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: like you were in the jail, like just something like

1020
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: like that they can hang on to, or like anything

1021
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: that helped you kind of hang in there?

1022
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 3: A quote I remember repeating to myself a lot even

1023
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 3: in there after I started coming out of very dark

1024
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 3: depression and grief and loss, and I started saying to

1025
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 3: myself a lot whenever I would get into this suicidal

1026
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 3: mindset that I would pull myself out of it with

1027
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 3: I'll be okay either way, and I'd just tell myself

1028
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 3: that over and over. It was like this motto in

1029
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 3: my mind. And then I also remember, I think is

1030
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 3: seeing other people that I idolized, that had left a

1031
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: cult and became someone amazing. Then I would look up

1032
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 3: to them and just be like, if they can, I

1033
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 3: can too. With somebody that's still deep inside a cult,

1034
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 3: then I feel like the best thing to do is

1035
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 3: not talk against their perpetrator directly, but try to drop

1036
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 3: hints that are parallel until they come to their own conclusion.

1037
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,919
Speaker 1: Hints have been I mean, I haven't heard the word

1038
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: hint and so long. And hints were such a big

1039
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: part of this documentary and this conversation, and it's a

1040
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: great point, like Lola's mom At one point, Sam is

1041
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: going off about some stupid bullshit and Lola's mom is like, no,

1042
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: that's a really good point. You should read The Gift

1043
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: of Fear about you know, drop the hints to us. Yeah,

1044
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: and you know what, he wouldn't let us read that book,

1045
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: of course, not it first, let.

1046
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 3: Us read it. But I read it in prisons later.

1047
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did good. And it's a good book. Yeah.

1048
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: But but like hints, it is true that even subconsciously,

1049
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: maybe people are picking up on something. It's just a

1050
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: little seed, just plant a little baby passive, aggressive.

1051
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, not too direct either.

1052
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it's hot.

1053
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's a really challenging thing. To know

1054
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 5: exactly how to do correctly and like we might exactly correctly.

1055
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 3: Even me. Then I feel like there's a school like

1056
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: you can only lead a horse to water, it's up

1057
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 3: to them to drink. Yeah, totally, and as many hints

1058
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 3: that you drop, then it's still up to them to realize.

1059
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important. Well, Normes, what are what's

1060
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 5: on the docket? What are you doing next? Where do

1061
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 5: people find you?

1062
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 3: I have Instagram at gnomes underscore b the same on TikTok.

1063
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 3: Hopefully I start a YouTube channel a little soon. I'll

1064
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 3: be talking more about my story and my deconstructing through

1065
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 3: that and as well as I've really been getting into

1066
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 3: a lot of seeing I have a vocal coach that

1067
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 3: I've been taking lessons from, Adriana McPhee her name is

1068
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 3: and Toga's introduced me to different producers and songwriters and

1069
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 3: I hope to have a career in that area. Yeah,

1070
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 3: I also want to. I almost feel this obligation to

1071
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 3: advocate for people that have been through similar experiences that

1072
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 3: I went through. I want to be able to help

1073
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 3: them through the process of healings from that. And I

1074
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 3: feel like one of the reasons why I'm so driven

1075
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 3: in that area is because survivor's guilt. I don't understand

1076
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 3: how I was able to wake up and pull out

1077
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: of it, whereas so many are still stuck, and I

1078
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 3: feel this obligation, this drive to help them.

1079
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 5: I mean, it's admirable and it also makes sense it. Yeah,

1080
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 5: you went through so much, and why would we ever

1081
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 5: want anyone else to go through that, you know without.

1082
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I don't. I would rather like put my

1083
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 3: pain and comfort aside so that they wouldn't have to

1084
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 3: go through what I went through waking up in prison.

1085
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it was the best and worst thing that

1086
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 3: happened to me, but it was something that I did

1087
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: have to heal from, right, Yeah, there were funny things

1088
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 3: that happened in there, though I.

1089
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 5: Have to say, I wish we had nine more hours.

1090
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 5: You'll have to tell us when you come back, we'll

1091
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 5: grill you.

1092
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a whole there's so much. There's so much

1093
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 3: to talk about, even and I think it would be

1094
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,919
Speaker 3: so good to even have like mckel on the show too,

1095
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 3: because even our our friendship and the ups and downs

1096
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,439
Speaker 3: and the things that it went through, it's a whole

1097
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 3: nother story in and of itself.

1098
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, and the video you two posted together.

1099
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 5: You guys are so cute.

1100
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: I think I have a song collaboration and mind between

1101
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: the two of you, but I want to be a

1102
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: part of it too, So Abram for me, go coach,

1103
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: start a band. It's it's just a song. It's just

1104
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: a song. And I can't wait to see what the

1105
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: future holds for you. And I am just so excited

1106
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: for you and and thank you, thank you for joining.

1107
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, thank you.

1108
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 5: And that's all we have with Gnomes, and I am

1109
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 5: just so grateful that she came on and talked to us,

1110
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 5: and so proud of her.

1111
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm so proud. It's unbelievable. It's inspiring, and it is

1112
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: a conversation I will never forget.

1113
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 5: I know, and hopefully we will see her in person soon.

1114
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 5: I'm not going to ask you any of the questions

1115
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 5: because we asked you last week. But for folks who

1116
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 5: are new listeners, I do typically ask Megan if she

1117
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 5: would join the cult. In this case, we're gonna just

1118
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 5: not do that question.

1119
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: We're just gonna not do it.

1120
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 5: But go follow Nomes wherever she exists online. And thank

1121
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 5: you for listening. Yeah, give some love to nomes, Thank

1122
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 5: you for listening. Give some love to us right us

1123
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 5: fagstars if you want to, and always remember to follow

1124
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 5: your gut, watch out for rad flags.

1125
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: And never ever trust me why.

1126
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 5: This has been an exactly right production Hosted by me

1127
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 5: Lola Blanc.

1128
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: And Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holee.

1129
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by John Bradley. Our associate producer

1130
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick. Our

1131
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: theme song was composed by Holly Ambert Church Trust Me

1132
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hartstark and Daniel Kramer.

1133
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 5: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

1134
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 5: or on TikTok at trust Me Cult podcast.

1135
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation,

1136
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

1137
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 5: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1138
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts