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Speaker 1: The country has never shied away from the actual reality,

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Speaker 1: how hard it is to make a living, how hard

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Speaker 1: it is to keep the love going.

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Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome to episode four fifty two. Coming up,

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Speaker 2: we'll talk to Alice Randall. She wrote My Black Country,

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Speaker 2: a journey through country music's black past, present, and future,

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Speaker 2: and also a really good songwriter and has written hits,

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Speaker 2: massive hits, So we'll talk to her. Also, she's a professor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, after this, I want to go to her class. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: me too, the cooking class, Yeah, me too. I just

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Speaker 3: want to eat though at that cooking class.

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Speaker 2: So that's coming up again, Vanderbilt professor, award winning songwriter, novelist,

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Speaker 2: and author, Alice Randall. And again i'll encourage you to

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Speaker 2: check out My Black Country. There's also a musical companion

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Speaker 2: to that as well. Shall we tease what or like

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Speaker 2: spoil what? She wrote at least one of the big songs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a big one.

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Speaker 3: X's and O's Trishy Eetterwood.

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Speaker 1: She used to nama his and have been sending boos.

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Speaker 3: Who in nexu zanos that goes I think that's it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And we're gonna start with this.

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Speaker 2: Stacker looked into the twenty five most covered country songs

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Speaker 2: of all time.

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Speaker 3: And so Eddie and I talked about this a bit.

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Speaker 2: The number one song has been covered like almost five

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Speaker 2: hundred times, and you'll find out what that song is.

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Speaker 2: We discussed each of these songs, their significance and country

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Speaker 2: music history. Some of these we discovered for the very

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Speaker 2: first time ever because they are so old. But this

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Speaker 2: is a very historic Bobby Cast. How do you feel

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Speaker 2: about that? It's good I should teach a class.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we can keep some of the really really old

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Speaker 3: ones in there because the.

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Speaker 2: The law, yeah, like the law that keeps us from

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Speaker 2: putting music in doesn't affect these songs because they're so

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Speaker 2: old and it's so old, like public domain even yeah,

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Speaker 2: like I'm a little teapot or these really old country songs.

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Speaker 3: I think it falls under that. Okay, here you go.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate you guys being here, Episode four fifty two on

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Speaker 2: the Bobby Cast. It's Bobby and Eddie talk music.

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Speaker 3: Hey man, hey man, you want to talk music, Let's

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Speaker 3: talk about something. Might as well talk music.

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Speaker 2: From stacker dot com, these are the top twenty five

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Speaker 2: most covered country songs. Oh and just data search it

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Speaker 2: see how many versions See if you can sing it

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Speaker 2: to me, okay, and if we can't, we just kind

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Speaker 2: of screwed because we can't really play the podcast or

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Speaker 2: a clip on the podcast. But number twenty five it

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Speaker 2: has one hundred and sixty two covers, originally recorded by

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Speaker 2: Hank Williams and his Drifting Cowboys, Clyde Grubb and his

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Speaker 2: Tennessee Valley Boys.

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Speaker 3: I saw the light. I saw the light.

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Speaker 5: I was that's Brooks and Done and then Luke Combs

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Speaker 5: when he did brand New Man Brooks Reboot Brooks and Done.

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Speaker 3: So what is I saw the light? We can't play anything, Mike, No,

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Speaker 3: just a piece of it? Can't Can I play it

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Speaker 3: for my phone?

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Speaker 5: Noh, we need reference to this.

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Speaker 3: It starts, I wondered, so aimless, life filled with sin.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't let my dear savior in. That's not gonna

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Speaker 3: do anything, no nothing. What if I listened to it

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Speaker 3: in my ear? You can do that, then sing it.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to jail, Mike, Hey, Mike it over yourself.

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Speaker 5: Well, we're going to jail. It's gonna be YouTube, not mean.

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Speaker 5: I'm just a guess man.

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Speaker 3: I saw the light. There you go. It's a fiddle.

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Speaker 3: You're good, all right, it's good, dude, I saw the light, Okay,

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Speaker 3: got it.

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Speaker 5: They must have covered that a long time ago too,

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Speaker 5: because they don't do that one anymore.

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Speaker 3: All right, Moving on.

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Speaker 2: Number twenty four, all right, right, all right, Crazy Arms

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Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy covers.

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Speaker 5: I on Earth, He's got to be old again, crazy

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Speaker 5: arm crazy, I'm crazy for your arm.

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Speaker 3: There's some fiddley. This is old man, old fiddle. It sucks.

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Speaker 3: We can't play a clip word documentary show.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 3: We're not gonna know this. Who's singing that one? Ray Price?

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Speaker 3: Oh wow? That one? All right?

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Speaker 2: Number twenty three, This one's easy. We'll know this one.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and eighty eight covers of it. Stand by your.

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Speaker 3: Man, stand by ol Man one hundred and why not? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Is she the og? And then recovered he wrote it, Wow,

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Speaker 2: that's cool. Number twenty two, one hundred and eighty nine

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Speaker 2: covers Joline.

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Speaker 3: Joline Joline Joline Jolie.

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Speaker 2: Wrote it by herself. Number twenty one, one hundred and

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Speaker 2: ninety one covers. I can't help but if I'm still

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Speaker 2: in love with you. Original record about Hank Williams and

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Speaker 2: is Drifting Cowboys, written by Hank Williams.

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Speaker 3: No Blue Moon a Kentucky. I know Bloe Moon, I've

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Speaker 3: heard of that, but I don't think I can sing

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Speaker 3: that one. Can you play it in my ear? Bloomon

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Speaker 3: of Kentucky? Old school, dude, old school? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Number nineteen you'll know, original recorded by Patsy Klein. I

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Speaker 2: fall to pieces, Wow, I.

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Speaker 3: Fall dude pieces. Do you know? Do you know her story?

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Speaker 3: Patsy Cline? Yeah? In what way? Do you know? She died? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 3: plank crash yeah, here near?

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Speaker 5: I mean yeah, there was this like this, this show

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Speaker 5: on I think Max maybe that's like a movie, like

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Speaker 5: a movie that they made about her life, and I

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Speaker 5: watched it. Man, she had a rough life, Yeah, rough life.

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Speaker 5: Husband was a bad dude.

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Speaker 3: Anyway. Else had a rough life? Was me and Bobby McGee.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Danis Joplin rough live And she didn't even

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Speaker 3: get to have success alive. Neither did Patsy really, she

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Speaker 3: was just coming up.

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Speaker 2: Number eighteen is possibly my favorite song ever. That's all

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Speaker 2: I want to say.

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Speaker 3: Blue Eyes Crying, well, wass gonna.

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Speaker 2: Give you hints, but yeah, it's two hundred and ten covers.

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Speaker 2: God will Willie was crying in the ring written by

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Speaker 2: Fred Rose, not Willie not Willie wow So who was

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Speaker 2: the original singer of that.

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Speaker 3: Roy Acuff Really?

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Speaker 2: Number seventeen, two hundred and thirteen covers Karne Karna relates

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Speaker 2: to nineteen twenty eight by blues artist Charlie McCoy and Bochapman.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I'll know that one anyway, I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing in my ears Number sixteen recorded by Johnny Cash.

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Speaker 2: In the Tennessee Too, written by Johnny Cash, two hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixteen covers, I walked the line.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I walked the line. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, that's gotta be amazing to have so many

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Speaker 5: covers of your song two hundred and twenty four covers,

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Speaker 5: Number fifteen and I know this when you know this

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Speaker 5: one too?

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Speaker 3: Hey good Looking, Hank Williams.

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Speaker 5: Singor Hey good looking, what you got cooking?

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Speaker 3: How a boy cooking something up for me?

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Speaker 2: And then the cheese like the National Cheese Federation took

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Speaker 2: it and changed it to.

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Speaker 3: Hey, good looking, what you got cooking? How'd you like

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Speaker 3: cooking something up with cheese? Really? They ran it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't remember that. I was singing a song with

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Speaker 3: my wife through the day.

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Speaker 2: I was like I love eggs from my head down

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Speaker 2: to my legs.

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Speaker 3: And she was like, that's not a real song.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yes from the egg commission from back

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Speaker 2: in the day commercials because she was incredible edaway egg.

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Speaker 3: I was like, no, is that real? Yeah? Oh you

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Speaker 3: guys are remember you know know a song I do?

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Speaker 3: I love eggs. I do like singing old jingles though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, from my head down to my legs. Cold Cold

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Speaker 2: Heart two hundred and thirty eight covers Cold Cold Heart.

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Speaker 3: That's not my Q what about Hank Williams. This Hank

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Speaker 3: Williams song has just been covered by everybody in country.

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Speaker 3: My cold Cold Hort we'll tell Can you play that

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Speaker 3: in my ear? Yeap, I don't know it, my cold

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Speaker 3: cold Hall. Maybe he does that? That sounds it sounds

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Speaker 3: like that would be next.

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Speaker 2: Number thirteen, two hundred and fifty five covers I Will

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Speaker 2: Always Love You, Dolly Parton, I've written by yourself, Dolly Parton.

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Speaker 3: I'll let you sing that one. No do real low

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Speaker 3: smart Yeah. Number twelve, Hank Williams, You're cheating heart.

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Speaker 1: You're cheating old har.

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Speaker 2: It's like the twist, like Cheby Checker. He did the twist.

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Speaker 2: But they need to twist again. Oh yeah, same song,

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Speaker 2: but just want to make a little money.

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Speaker 3: That's funny. Let's twist again like we did last summer.

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Speaker 2: John Henry three hundred and ten covers one of the

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Speaker 2: most popular folk songs in American history.

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Speaker 3: Sean Henry, recorded nineteen twenty four. This could be public

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Speaker 3: domain if we have the old version of it. Let's

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Speaker 3: see who's this by? What do you got through?

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Speaker 2: Sounds like I was playing the CELLPHONEZ that was for sure, hundred.

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Speaker 4: Sounds public domain to me.

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Speaker 2: Fidland, John Carson, and covered three hundred and ten times

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Speaker 2: by who.

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Speaker 3: I think all the other folk artists around them Airbay

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Speaker 3: in Town.

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Speaker 2: Love's Ring of Fire Love is originally recorded by Anita Carter,

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Speaker 2: written by June Carter and Merle Kilgore. Oh wow, but

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Speaker 2: that is Ring of Fire. So songs that Johnny Cash.

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Speaker 3: Saying huge. He made it made it huge, a little different,

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Speaker 3: but that same song. Uh. Number nine, three hundred twenty

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Speaker 3: five covers of it. Take Me Home, Country Road, Yes,

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Speaker 3: take take you road.

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Speaker 2: We should know all the rest of these, right, have

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Speaker 2: any of the place. Number eight I'm so lonesome Hank

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Speaker 2: Williams again, I'm so lonesome.

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Speaker 5: I can cry, I'm so lonesome, my good cry.

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Speaker 3: Riders in the Sky, Riders in the Sky. That's the doors.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know that I know this one yet,

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Speaker 2: but that's the doors you play at Mike. So that

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Speaker 2: version is Johnny Cash right.

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Speaker 3: M m Goho Riders. It sounds like a small movie.

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Speaker 2: Nine hundred Miles Away from Home, covered three hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty one times, but it's fiddling John Carson again, so

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Speaker 2: recorded with the suit can Frame long Ly Sure Number

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Speaker 2: five three hundred and seventy two covers written by Willie Nelson.

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Speaker 2: Original recorded about Patsy c Line crazy, I'm crazy for

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Speaker 2: feeling so lonely. Help me make it through the night,

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Speaker 2: written by Chris Christopherson. Four hundred and three covers recorded

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Speaker 2: by Chris Christopherson and Percy Sledge.

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Speaker 3: Wow, don't know that one? I bet we do? You

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Speaker 3: play it my ear? I mean kind of? It may

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Speaker 3: help me make it through the not but I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that one.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy that it's number four and we don't really

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Speaker 2: like no, No, it number three is here's the hints.

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Speaker 2: It's been covered four hundred and thirty six times. That

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Speaker 2: it's a lot. It was written by Jack Rawlins and

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Speaker 2: Steve Nelson. That Won't Help You, originally recorded by Gene

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Speaker 2: Autry and the Cass County Boys.

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Speaker 5: Ruto off the Red Nose randew No, but You're close. Oh,

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Speaker 5: what's the one that click click click up on the

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Speaker 5: house top.

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Speaker 3: Frosty the Snowman. Dang it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you would.

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Speaker 5: That's crazy If that was their original, they must have

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Speaker 5: made so much money off of that.

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Speaker 2: Number two covered four hundred and thirty nine times, the

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Speaker 2: original version of nineteen thirty nine by the Pine Ridge Boys.

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Speaker 3: You for sure know this song pine Ridge Boys. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I would try to give you a hints or to

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Speaker 2: do something, but it's just too easy. Number two most

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Speaker 2: covered song of all time.

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Speaker 3: You are My Sunshine. Oh wo my oldest sunshine. That's crazy.

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Speaker 3: That's a country song. I mean, that's got to be

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Speaker 3: an old yu song too, nineteen thirty nine. Yeah, do

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Speaker 3: you have the original? You are my sun Shot? That's cool?

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Speaker 3: Only some shot, Oh my only only son. Time you

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Speaker 3: make me have me on Sky's are great. You'll never

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Speaker 3: know how much oild of you. Please don't take my

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Speaker 3: song shine always some of those harmonies, that's awesome. I

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Speaker 3: just picked one of the one of those jugs too,

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Speaker 3: three xes on it. Yeah, that's awesome and.

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Speaker 2: The number one most covered country song of all time,

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Speaker 2: written by Pea week King and Red Stewart the Special

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Speaker 2: Record in nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if the song isn't could you give me

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Speaker 3: the artist or is that too? I can give you

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Speaker 3: a bunch of them.

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Speaker 2: Originally recorded by Cowboy copas Pee Wee King and his

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Speaker 2: Golden West Cowboy so it's really old, right, And then

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Speaker 2: artists like Otashred and Eli Fitzgerald, Patsy Kline, Elvis Presley

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Speaker 2: all did a standard of it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, suck the version? Oh no way you get this?

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Speaker 3: You ain't nothing but a hond on no Tennessee waltz?

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Speaker 2: What on earth can you play some of that Tennessee waltz?

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Speaker 2: I don't the most covered song of all time, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know that song.

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Speaker 5: I thought I knew a lot about music until now.

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Speaker 5: A lot of music I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Of a lot of Hank Williams senior. Yeah, and also

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Speaker 2: some guy recording himself with a fiddle.

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Speaker 3: And uh, what what was his name? Henry what Winkler?

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Speaker 3: One bo Henry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's another episode of Eddie and Boby talking

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Speaker 2: about music.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I learned a lot there. Hey, thanks for talking

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Speaker 3: about music with me. Man anytime, dude.

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Speaker 6: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,

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Speaker 6: and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

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Speaker 2: First, thank you for coming over. This is cool for

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Speaker 2: me because when somebody that I adore adore somebody and says, hey,

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Speaker 2: you should really talk to them, I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: let's go. And then I started actually researching about you.

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Speaker 2: So Charlotte and the Gods are my best friends, like

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Speaker 2: so we're so close to it, and I my company

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Speaker 2: may here, may not, like we switch out and and

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Speaker 2: take care of each other like internal like lang, like

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Speaker 2: we grew up the same way. So he called and

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Speaker 2: he said, hey, told me you writing this book. And

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Speaker 2: the book that I read was the because I've written

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Speaker 2: a couple of books to Alice, this was the like

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Speaker 2: the publicity book. So all the chapters are like zero

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Speaker 2: zero zero zero, So I forget the places.

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Speaker 3: And like go back.

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Speaker 2: But you have such a wonderful story yourself, and I'd

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Speaker 2: like to start with just talking about a couple of

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Speaker 2: personal things, a couple things that I had pulled from

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Speaker 2: the book that I was like, I got to talk

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Speaker 2: about this because I'm interested in this that even if

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Speaker 2: there weren't microphones, I would ask you about. So I

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Speaker 2: was part of the Charli Pride documentary because it was

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Speaker 2: a massive Charlie Pride fan. My grandma was My grandma

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Speaker 2: grew up and she was country music. So it was

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Speaker 2: pushed on to me. But you had the chance to

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Speaker 2: Actually I never get to meet him.

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Speaker 1: I got to meet him from nineteen eighty three, from

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Speaker 1: the beginning of when I came down here, and I

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Speaker 1: got to spend some really sweet time with him at

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Speaker 1: the very end of his life. Yeah, you said that

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Speaker 1: you were in that Charlie Pride.

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so was I and it was really funny.

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Speaker 1: And for your listeners, who don't mean I've been in

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Speaker 1: country music forty one years where we are today. I

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Speaker 1: remember when George and Tammy lived here in Franklin, wrote

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Speaker 1: and I would come back and drive past their house.

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Speaker 1: But so I was in the Charlie Pride documentary in

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Speaker 1: my role being a professor at Vanderbilt teaching about country music,

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Speaker 1: and so I was in the second VIP section, not

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Speaker 1: the good one. But I was really there.

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Speaker 3: Not good VIP.

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Speaker 1: There's levels of VIP. You're always in the top one,

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Speaker 1: so you didn't know about the other one. But so

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Speaker 1: I was lucky to be there and so thrilled to

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Speaker 1: actually just be And Tanne Tucker, I remember she was

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Speaker 1: in the first one, as she deserved to be, And

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Speaker 1: there was a seat by me, and Charlie Pride walks

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Speaker 1: in and he comes and sits at his own documentary

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Speaker 1: in the second VIP section to sit beside me, And

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Speaker 1: of all the honors I have received, I almost cheer

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Speaker 1: up to this moment. He died, not I think within

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Speaker 1: a year of that that he sat there, and when

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Speaker 1: I came on, he's pointing to me. And when I

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Speaker 1: arrived in Nashville in.

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Speaker 3: Eighty eighty three, that what herote about.

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Speaker 1: He had already been at the top of the charts

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Speaker 1: twenty nine times, twenty nine times. He was about to

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Speaker 1: go up with his last time to the number one spot.

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Speaker 1: And I remember being askcap dinner of black tie and

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Speaker 1: walking across the room to see him. He has no

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Speaker 1: idea who I am, and he stood up. I teasily

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Speaker 1: say maybe he just had to go to the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: I don't. Maybe because I was one of the only

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Speaker 1: black ladies in the room, maybe because he just had

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Speaker 1: that good hod trading. He stood up and we had

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Speaker 1: to encounter each other from eighty three to the end

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Speaker 1: of his life, and it meant so much to me.

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Speaker 1: He got a Lifetime Achievement award and I was getting

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Speaker 1: my hair DoD and Garth. I got a phone call

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Speaker 1: from Garth Brooks's manager, Bob Doyle, and it was Charlie

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Speaker 1: Pride is getting this big award and Garth wants you

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Speaker 1: to be on the stage with him and talk to

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Speaker 1: him about Charlie Pride. And that was when COVID was

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Speaker 1: still going on. I have the breast cancer things, so

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Speaker 1: I was really afraid of going out. That's how much

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Speaker 1: Charlie Pride meant to me. That I got on my

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Speaker 1: mask and got on that stage and took it off

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Speaker 1: and we just had Garth that I had an amazing

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Speaker 1: conversation about Charlie Pride because his voice he carves layers

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Speaker 1: of mean. He didn't write, and I'm a songwriter. I

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Speaker 1: don't sing, but I've been hearing about Charlie Pritt. I

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Speaker 1: was born in Detroit in nineteen fifty nine. I remember

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Speaker 1: when he came out as black in Detroit City, his

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Speaker 1: audience didn't know that. It was talked about so much

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Speaker 1: that even as a little girl in black Detroit, I

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Speaker 1: heard that gossip right then at his voice on the radio.

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Speaker 1: It was just so utterly universal, kissing Angel, good morning lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so there was just so much in every time,

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Speaker 1: every song.

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Speaker 2: What do you think aside from how good he sounded it?

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Speaker 2: And I want to give my incorrect, probably opinion and

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Speaker 2: correct me one hundred times. And if i'm if you

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Speaker 2: feel differently about it, because again I'm coming from it

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Speaker 2: in my perspective as a white dude that grew up

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Speaker 2: in a segregated black and white town. M hm, So

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Speaker 2: my perspective isn't always going to be correct, Like I'm

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Speaker 2: not coming from the center of it. I'm coming from

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Speaker 2: near the outside of the edge. And so but I

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Speaker 2: also know that so if I say something you're like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't feel like that's actually a like,

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Speaker 2: let me know, why do you feel. Charlie Pride was

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Speaker 2: extremely valuable to country music in general, but he literally was.

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Speaker 1: A brilliant singer. The way he bit notes very similar

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Speaker 1: to George Jones. He got that bit how he ben

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Speaker 1: did it. But all that truth, the passion, you know.

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Speaker 1: But he was important to country music for so many

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Speaker 1: different reasons. But remember his audience fell in love with him.

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Speaker 1: They didn't even know he was black, so they didn't

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Speaker 1: fall in love with him because he was blacky. He

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Speaker 1: had that juke blox voice. He had that I call

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Speaker 1: it that Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning paradox. Like

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Speaker 1: he had all the sin in him and all the sacred.

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Speaker 1: And when you got all the sin and all the

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Speaker 1: sacred in it, you got a great country song. He

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Speaker 1: was raggedy and right. But to me, part of the

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Speaker 1: genius of Charlie Pride that I hadn't thought of back

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Speaker 1: when in nineteen eighty three eighty four is when he

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Speaker 1: stood on the stage. He stood like an athlete.

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Speaker 3: He was such an athlete, like he was a professional athlete.

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Speaker 1: He was a baseball player. He had been in the

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Speaker 1: Negro leagues, he even had some time in the bigs,

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Speaker 1: And he was an athlete. He reminded some people of

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Speaker 1: what cash is Clay. He stood on the stage as

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Speaker 1: a man and not as a performer. He was delivering

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Speaker 1: the reality of a grown man's life, and I think

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Speaker 1: people got it. Men, women, people got it. They were

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Speaker 1: attracted to the power, the power in his stance. He

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Speaker 1: was so charismatic. I mean, the man had a twinkle

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Speaker 1: in his eye to the end. And that last time

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Speaker 1: I was sitting beside my husband and husband I'm now divorced,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the documentary I could tell

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Speaker 1: something was he needed to get to the bathroom and

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Speaker 1: we were on this stair stadium type seating and I

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Speaker 1: asked him, do you need David to help you get there?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely yes, and he he accepted the help. David walked

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Speaker 1: him out. Was proud to be his walking stick. But

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Speaker 1: even with walking, he still had his swagger. He's so

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Speaker 1: still gorgeous. He still had it.

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Speaker 2: The reason that they had asked me to be a

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Speaker 2: part of the Charlie Pride documentary. Again, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of country music from when country music and gospel really

399
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Speaker 2: were crossing over, and so that's what I listened to

400
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Speaker 2: a lot as a kid because my grandmother adopted me

401
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Speaker 2: for a long time, so her music was my music.

402
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Speaker 2: You know, everything from you know, Andy Griffith's gospel records

403
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Speaker 2: to Ray Charles modern sounds, the country music like all

404
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Speaker 2: of that area. But Charlie pride to me was I

405
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Speaker 2: loved his songs. But I also am a massive sports fan,

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Speaker 2: so I know I knew he had like a double

407
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Speaker 2: life where he was such an athlete. But his story

408
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Speaker 2: of all of his music being sent out places and

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Speaker 2: never having a picture on it because he did not

410
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Speaker 2: want to be judged or have someone not give him

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Speaker 2: equal treatment because he was a black man, and the

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Speaker 2: fact that they had to keep that up for a

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Speaker 2: long time, Like that's what I talked about, and how

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Speaker 2: there must have been such a range of emotions internally

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Speaker 2: inside of him. One to understand like this, Okay, if

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Speaker 2: the record level was going to do this, this may

417
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: be lead to success, but too I would imagine you

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Speaker 2: probably want to be who you are at the same time.

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Speaker 2: And from my understanding, like that was always something that

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Speaker 2: plagued him a bit.

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Speaker 1: Well I said that phrase he went incognigro. People did

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Speaker 1: not know he was black. But I also think he

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Speaker 1: was very strategic man. He was a businessman aside from

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Speaker 1: being a musician. One of the things he was a

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Speaker 1: role model to me about. I've got to tell you

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Speaker 1: in a moment, he's in my first family of Black

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00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: Country is He came in about real estate. He came

428
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: and invested in publishing. He came in and supported other writers.

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Speaker 1: He was a man among men, And I don't always

430
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Speaker 1: like that because I say about country small towns are

431
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: smaller for girls, all girls. That that was business men

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Speaker 1: were running this town when Charlie Pride came to town and

433
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Speaker 1: he found a space in that business life. But he

434
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Speaker 1: had that visionary sense that he was both an artist

435
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Speaker 1: and a business person. He understood it's a music business.

436
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,919
Speaker 1: If you want control of your fate, you've got to

437
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: get control of some part of the business.

438
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 2: Where do you think that came from his acumen? Like

439
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 2: what part of his life do you think that really developed?

440
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 3: Being probably very.

441
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: Poor and hard, coming up really hard, and having nobody

442
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: trying to help him. I mean, one of the stories

443
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's true or not that I

444
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 1: wasn't able to document, but supposedly when he was in

445
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: the negro leagues at one time somebody traded him for

446
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: a bus. Like being treated like an object and knowing

447
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: you weren't. But what I love is that brilliance that

448
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: that he It's like he was so successful in one

449
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: area that he was able to translate it into another. Sure,

450
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: and this so Americans stand. So you know, to me,

451
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: I call it country as corn bed Charlie Pride, because

452
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, people want to talk about it. Most people

453
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: didn't even realize. It's just on the radio with somebody

454
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: who said they then they fell in love with Charlie Pride.

455
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: They didn't even know he was black. Like that, he

456
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: quote unquote sounds white to a lot of people. And

457
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: that's one of the things when I talk about my

458
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: book My Black Country, I talk about a first family

459
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: of Black country, and the two the MoMA and pop

460
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: of that is Defour Bailey and Lil Harden. But one

461
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: of the things about Lil Harden that's so interesting is

462
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: she played on this song called Blue Yodel Number nine.

463
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that song. It was the first million seller.

464
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: It sounds like what people think a hill billy, old

465
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: hill billy record should sound like. But the reality is

466
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: two black people played on it, Lil Harden and Louis

467
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: Armstrong and Jimmy Rodgers. People think they know what black

468
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: people sound like, but they don't. Always they didn't know

469
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: Charlie Pride is a stone black man.

470
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: We were talking about the book before you came in,

471
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 2: and I was talking about how you were talking. You

472
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: had mentioned the First Family, and I think you said

473
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 2: Ray Charles was like the kid genius, the child genius

474
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 2: something Will d Ford's brilliant child. Yeah, like he was

475
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: the kid genius. What'd you love about Ray Charles?

476
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: Oh? I love the way he plays a piano. You

477
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: talk about the gospel piano. My aunt had lost a

478
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: baby in a house fire before I was born, and

479
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: she basically had descended into a bottle. And when I

480
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 1: was born, she came out of that. But what really

481
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: really helped her She used to cha cha around the

482
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,239
Speaker 1: living room with me to Ray Charles the first year

483
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: I was born. It was just for a thrill. That

484
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: became one of the theme songs of my life. But

485
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: when modern Sounds in Country and Western dropped that song,

486
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: Bye Bye Love, it was an entire grammar of love

487
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: for her. One of those songs is was written by

488
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: Felice and Buddolo O'Bryant and pleeere one of the greatest

489
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: women songwriters country ever knew. But she's also a great

490
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: rock songwriter. Bye Bye Love. Ray Charles had the most

491
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: extraordinary song since but when he plays his piano, it

492
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: takes you to church. And what I'll say in the book,

493
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: I talk about but that piano that came from Arizona

494
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: Dreams a blind woman who played in the Kojik church

495
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: out in Los Angeles, the way Jerry Lee Lewis pounded

496
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: his piano, the way Ray Charles pounded his piano. Even

497
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: Aretha Owes a lot to a black woman called it Arizona.

498
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 3: My Black country. The book in general, the entire project.

499
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: Is this something that you set out, I'm going to

500
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: write this specific book or was it a different like

501
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: collections of stories that you've had over an amount of time.

502
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: Because I've done both kinds of books. I've just set

503
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: out and wrote, I want to write this book, and

504
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 2: then I've also had a bunch of stuff that I've

505
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: accumulated and went, oh, this makes sense together.

506
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: Where did this book come from?

507
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: But you're a real writer because it's a little bit

508
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: of both of those things. That's that process.

509
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 3: You know.

510
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: When I first came here forty one years ago out

511
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: of Harvard, of all strange things, where I was listening

512
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: to country while I was typing papers, I knew I

513
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about people like Defour Bailey and Lil Hardened.

514
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: Black people have been a race from the history of

515
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: country and the banjo, because I sincerely love country music

516
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: and I love it as a profound American art forum

517
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: that has been, in my opinion, co created by black

518
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: and white people. And like you, you know, I was

519
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: born in Detroit, Michigan, when it was a really segregated city.

520
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: My black Detroit was Detroit was a majority white city,

521
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: but my world was completely black. The wasn't just a

522
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: popsicle truck that went down the road. It was a

523
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: watermelon truck in the summer. It was might as well

524
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: be in Detroit, Alabama. But those people, my aunt, my grandmother,

525
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: my mother, they all listened to countries. So I have

526
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: known that black people listened to country because if you

527
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: were in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi back in the forties, there

528
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: was no black radio to listen to. You can go

529
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: to a juke joint, but if you listen, we're on

530
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: radio right now. Black people, including Ray Charles, listen to

531
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: country on the radio. That's why I'm honored to be

532
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: on this show, because this is the show. Radio is

533
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: what introduced Ray Charles to Defot Bailey. That's where he

534
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: first heard Defot.

535
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: When I do my stand up shows, I talk a

536
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: bit about the history of country music, and I tell

537
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: the story about how generationally, we'll say generationally every decade,

538
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 2: every fifteen years or so, in country music, the same

539
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: argument of well, that ain't country happens. Regardless, it's cyclical,

540
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 2: it happen. And anybody that I've talked to, from Kenny

541
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: Rodgers to Garth to they all will have the same

542
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: story of when they came to talent and since they

543
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: were a bit different, they were told that's not country.

544
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: And so but what I rooted in and usually now

545
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: I'm from a rural town in Arkansas, So I say

546
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: this about other rural, semi uneducated white dudes who go, well,

547
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: that ain't country, they have no idea that really, what

548
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: real country is is the combination of Europeans with a

549
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: fiddle and the slave ships with string banjo. Like that's

550
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: if you want to say what exactly is country, it's

551
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: those black artists and it's those Europeans, and that's what

552
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: got the music to the hills to even start to

553
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 2: be created. Like to me, that's what the original country

554
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: music is.

555
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely and I would just add this.

556
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: One thing, please tell me I love it.

557
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: So it's a Celtic, English, Irish, Scottish ballot forms plus

558
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: the Black influences, plus Evangelical Christianity. You need that, that

559
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: the Black Church, and that belief in God in heaven

560
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: because if not, if you don't have that, you may

561
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: have a blues song. You may have a country blues

562
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: and if you don't have the black influences, you may

563
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: have a folk song. And all of those are real.

564
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: But I think you're so right, and it's important to

565
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: know when we're arguing about what is country, we're really

566
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: arguing about what is America, because country claims itself and

567
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: is in some real ways America's music.

568
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: And I like normal, peace, normal.

569
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: There's no such things normal, but like common, hardworking people's anthems.

570
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: And that feels like that's where it started, because you're

571
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: looking at immigrants, and you're looking at people that are

572
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: forced to come here, and it gets no more hard

573
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: working than people who are either forced to find a

574
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: new life or have to move from their old life

575
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: because it's so hard.

576
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely, life is hard. Is one of the rules of

577
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: country music. I look this not to get into the wild.

578
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: But sixteen carriages to me when I heard that song,

579
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: I hear the relationship to sixteen tons, and I assure

580
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: you that song, which is a country stone country classic,

581
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: But I would go up in Detroit. These men, black

582
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: and white working on the assembly lines, they knew everything

583
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: about sixteen times. They weren't digging coal in a West

584
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: Virginia coal mine or Alabama, but they were working assembly

585
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: line that same way. Merle Haggard, hungry eyes. This resonates

586
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: across lives when people are living hard lives. Johnny Cash,

587
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: I shot a man just to watch him die. All

588
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: kinds of mothers have felt that same pain. Country is

589
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: hard music for hard people, which is one of the

590
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: things I love about it. And my four Country rules

591
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: are what makes us on country. Life is hard, God

592
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: is real, the road, liquor, and family are significant compensations,

593
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: and the past is better than the present.

594
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 3: The third one is kind of funny.

595
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: The road, liquor and family are significant compensations for the

596
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: fact life is hard and blues there's no significant And

597
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: is it true? I read somewhere and sometimes you read

598
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: things aren't true that one of your first interviews was

599
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: Darius Rucker.

600
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: It was my very first ever Well, I read that.

601
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: And one of the things I tried to that song

602
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: of his from Hooting the Blowfish, let Her Cry. That's

603
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: a country song, but I was saying, because it has

604
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: a prayer in it, his mama, it is God in it.

605
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: That changes everything.

606
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 7: Oh Mama, please hell? I mean yes, yeah. And this

607
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 7: woman is about to go use YEP drugs, but he

608
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 7: is asking God, He's begging his godden mama. There is

609
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 7: nothing more stone country than asking your mama and God

610
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 7: to help you get through something.

611
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that too, because he's

612
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: South Carolina, right, a lot of it. And I think, again,

613
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: you're you're the expert. So but I feel like regionally,

614
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: even for me growing up before streaming music hit, you

615
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: could really only get what was around music wise, so

616
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: the influence was whatever's in the store or unless you

617
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: signed up for one of those eight pennies for twenty

618
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: ced deals and then you get like a Chili Pepper CD.

619
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: But it was all country music all the time. So

620
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: if you lived in South Carolina, if you live like Darius,

621
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: if you live in Arkansas like myself Georgia, if you so,

622
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: regardless of what music you liked all that regional influence

623
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: was built in. So when HOODI comes down and they're

624
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: a rock band, there's so much country influence because Darius

625
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: is from Charleston, South.

626
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: Carolina, absolutely, and what's going on in those southern college scenes,

627
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: they cross pollinating through the sports teams, through the SEC.

628
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: There is so much of that rooted countriness in that.

629
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: What was the goal when you started writing the book?

630
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: What did you want to when someone finished it? What

631
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: did you want them to have?

632
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: I wanted them to have an understanding of how black, white,

633
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: and indigenous people came in together and built this thing

634
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: we call country and that we love, and that it

635
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: already has been baked into it these cross collaborations, and

636
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 1: it's the cross collaborations that actually make it amazing. I

637
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: also wanted to go back and celebrate. I think life

638
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: is hard and God is real, and those are some real,

639
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: centered think truths that we all be better off holding onto,

640
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: in my opinion right now. And I didn't answer your

641
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: question when you asked me five years ago. I had died,

642
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: got diagnosed with cancer, and that's I thought, I've got

643
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: to do this book. I've got to tell this truth

644
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: of what I've been researching for forty some years, and

645
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: how this, how this hard This music helped me get

646
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: through that moment and helped me get through hard moments

647
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: before that. I love country music because country music has

648
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: helped me get through so much over the years. And

649
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: so many other.

650
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: People can ask where you started, not page one of

651
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: the book, but where you started with the book, because

652
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: it's always a fundamental jump off point, something that's very

653
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: important to your foundation. Where did you start this book

654
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: from in your heart, in your head, I'll.

655
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: Cry over it. Daddy don't go in that var that

656
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: I wrote my first country song in a motown cherry tree.

657
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: And I also knew as I got older in Harvard,

658
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: the other kids didn't have didn't write songs like Daddy,

659
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: don't go in that bar because my daddy was an alcoholic.

660
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: He was actually a great father too, and he would

661
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: jump into bar get a drink. I don't even know

662
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: what was on the other side of the door. And

663
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: one day I said, Daddy, don't go in that v

664
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: just reading the sign, and he took me in with him,

665
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: and it's like that Guy Clark song. He taught me

666
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: how to drive when he was too drunk. To. But

667
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: I later, maybe a year after that, I was sitting

668
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: up in a little cherry tree in Detroit looking out

669
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: the highway, and I started turning that into a song.

670
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: I was singing to the birds, Daddy, don't go in

671
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: that var Please don't leave me alone in the car.

672
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: And you talked about that early gospel. When I came

673
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: to town, there's a man called Archie Jordan had written

674
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: a huge song called What a Difference She Made in

675
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: My Life. It was one of those gospel songs that

676
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: was a country song. He touched that one and said,

677
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: that's the hit. I said, that happened to me. He said,

678
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: I know. I said, how can you know? He said,

679
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: you can't invent something like that. So all my biggest

680
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: songs x's and o's that happened to me. So I

681
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: started with Daddy, don't go in that var And you

682
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: know I became friends with in my life now Bobby Braddock,

683
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: he wrote DI V O RC and he stopped loving

684
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: her today. I heard that in the back of my mind.

685
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: That's what kept that song alive. I was making the

686
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: same kind of wordplay, letter play that Bobby did because

687
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: I learned it from country.

688
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: How long did you hold on to that song because

689
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 2: obviously you're singing it, you have it, You hold it

690
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: until it actually came to where you were having somebody

691
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: listen to it and record it.

692
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: Because that one I didn't. I couldn't let it go. Okay,

693
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: that one, it was so everything for me and my

694
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: father and him taking me inside. I could never collaborate

695
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 1: on that song. Another song I brought here about a

696
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: reckless Night, about a girl and the girl and a

697
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: boy make love and the green grass. They meet in

698
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: the choir, make love in the green glass. He's still

699
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: in the choir, and she shunned with her baby outside

700
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: the choir. That was the first song I had recorded.

701
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: That was the first when I brought here that I

702
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: could collaborate with with Mark Sanders and Bobby Braddock. He

703
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: listened to the chorus of that. He said, you never

704
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: get to get two lines as good as your first two,

705
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: so just use those the ones you have twice. So

706
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: that but by then on that I was turning bar

707
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: was just too much my life. I could never turn

708
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: it into art. But when I wrote the art of

709
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: this memoir, I knew it's the cornerstone.

710
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm just thinking about your career.

711
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 2: Were there other black songwriters here at all that you

712
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: would see regularly?

713
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: No, there was not. As far as I knew at

714
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: the time, there had never been another black woman writer.

715
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: You know, Oblee Clinton. It depends on how you look

716
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: at it. There weren't here. Phil Withers, I believe, is

717
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: a country songwriter, Grandma's Hands, railroad man. I knew he existed.

718
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: I knew Lionel Ritchie existed. I was not seeing these

719
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: people anyway regularly, and as far as I knew, I

720
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: never saw any other black women. D four Bailey had

721
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: died the year before I go. I knew he had

722
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: written songs. Charlie Pridde is amazing, But one of the

723
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: few things Charlie Pride did not do was write a

724
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: lot of songs. George Jones is not known for writing songs,

725
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: but he did. Roseanne Cash was actually a huge influence.

726
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: I could tear up about her.

727
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 2: Charlotte made me a picture of him and her together

728
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: a few days ago, and he said, do you know

729
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: Roseanne Cash? And I said, I know, I'm from Arkansas.

730
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: I said, I know over her, but I don't know

731
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: Roseanne Cash. And so were you were you there with him.

732
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: I brought her that that was my book launch, got

733
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 1: it and I have known you gave me no context.

734
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 3: He just sent a picture of him and Roseen Cash.

735
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: It was like, do you know her? I was like,

736
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: I know over, but.

737
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: What is Roseanne? That's really so much about that.

738
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

739
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: I've known Roseanne since the first year I came here.

740
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: I was listening to her when I was at Harvard.

741
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: She had her first album out in about seventy eight,

742
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: and I was in college seventy seven to eighty one.

743
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: I came here. One of the first things I got

744
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: to do was work on a series of Johnny Cash

745
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: videos and get to meet him. But I cross strung

746
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: with past with Roseanne, and particularly we were doing some

747
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: environmental activism she was getting started with and she had

748
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: a video production company early on, and that video company

749
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: actually gave me the chance to write what became a

750
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: Reba McIntyre Video of the Year. But my closest thing

751
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: with Roseanne her daughter, Chelsea, considers me one of her

752
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: top mentors and I am, and she produced my podcast.

753
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: I've loved Chelsea through, but Roseanne and I've known each

754
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: other the whole way through. And so she had eleven

755
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: number ones as a woman writer, I teasally said her

756
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: seven Year Ach was one of the songs that helped

757
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: me leave my husband, my first one. So I have

758
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: been following Roseanne's path, and she's also a memoirist, and

759
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: she has been watching me across a distance. I actually

760
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: did more work with Rodney along the way, but Roseanne

761
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: and I have truly come together and done in these

762
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: later years some important things together, and both of us

763
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: are great admirers of the other's daughter and Chelsea. I

764
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: love Chelsea, she loves Caroline, and when she's up in

765
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: New York. When I was launching this book, I asked

766
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: her if she would come and be in conversation with me,

767
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: and she said yes. And that's one of the most

768
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: important yeses any woman ever gave me in country. The

769
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: other one was Trisha Yearwood as a whole nother story.

770
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: But Roseanne and I will this her story to tell more.

771
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: But she now knows that her mama was black, part black,

772
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: and she didn't know that growing up, and so that's

773
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: been an interesting, small a conversation that we've had. So

774
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: I will, she reasily say, if you want to depend

775
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: on how you look at it with her eleven number ones.

776
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: She was the first, but she didn't know she was

777
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: a black woman, and the audience didn't see her that way.

778
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to say anything about her identity

779
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: sure here, but I just am so proud that Roseanne

780
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: and Cash would come out because she was a songwriter

781
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: that was ahead of me when I was here, and

782
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: as a woman writer meant so much to me.

783
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: Such a big deal, especially to kids, because it's like

784
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: kids need to see that things can't exist and they

785
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: are part of that existence. But who what was your

786
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: representation in country music that you saw, because again, it

787
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: feels like you're the only black woman in town, writing

788
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: in rooms or writing with folks.

789
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: That's how I've been at that. My Black Family, my

790
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: mythic Black Family, D four it Lil Harden.

791
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 3: I knew that liter you got to go to history

792
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 3: for representation.

793
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: I had to go to history. I had Emily Dickinson.

794
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: I have that Mobiindi song that starts out hope as

795
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: a thing with feathers that poaches on the soul that

796
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: is now Alison Russell has covered. That's Emily Dickinson. I

797
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: had to remember when nobody believed in Emily Dickinson. She

798
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: died with I think only having had six poems published.

799
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: We now know Emily Dickinson is one of perhaps the

800
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: greatest American poet, the greatest American woman poet. I had

801
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: to believe maybe I was going to die without getting

802
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: a song recorded. Now I did get my first one

803
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: recorded two years after getting here, and it's interesting to

804
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: me that Bobby Braddock and Bob Bigdill, these are the

805
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: two in my time, those are two of the greatest

806
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: songwriters here Roseanne. Both of them supported me in different ways.

807
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: Bobby and I would actually write a big song together.

808
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: Bob McDill, who wrote good old boys like me, Amanda.

809
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: He took me seriously, but I did not have anyone

810
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: who looked like me in the room. I was the

811
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: unexpected body. I don't know if I could tell this

812
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: or should tell it. You know one of my favorite writers.

813
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to call his name, but really a

814
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: person I came here thinking this is one of the

815
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: great country poets. He met me, shook hands, stood back

816
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: four feet from me, and said, I'm not going to

817
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: say exactly what he said. I've been at this too long.

818
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: If I have to compete with in were girls from

819
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: Harvard Cutts, and I stepped right towards him and I said,

820
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: I am, and you do. But I never spoke to

821
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: that man again. That was one of the worst things

822
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: anyone has ever said to me in my life.

823
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 2: Do you feel like that was a common feeling amongst

824
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: the older male white writer in town, or even the

825
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: younger male They just didn't say it.

826
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: I can't judge me. Steve Girl said he thought it

827
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: was so wild. He wanted to help me be a

828
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: big writer. Certainly Bob McDill and Bob B. Braddock sat

829
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: there and helped me. I think I think a lot

830
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: of people thought. I think a lot of people use

831
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: that word a lot of places, and I think a

832
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: lot of people thought it was just impossible. But on

833
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: the other hand, of all strange things, Merle Haggard loved

834
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: the way I talked about his songs. I remember getting

835
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: to dance with him one of those October weeks at

836
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: a Sony party on the and talk about Hungry Eyes

837
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: and what his poetry meant to me and him. He

838
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: had a song about an interracial love relationship or I

839
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: always get the title way back. You know that people

840
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: are more complex than they seem there's an old joke,

841
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I'm gonna tell it. It's they said,

842
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, I came up from Harvard. They say, up

843
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: North people love black people in general and hate them

844
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: and particular, and down South they hate black people in

845
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: general and love them in particular. What was wild is

846
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: under the surface, there's a lot of love and country

847
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: for anybody who really loves country and knows it. And

848
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: what people understood about me is I knew my country music,

849
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: and they began to think if I thought it was

850
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: blacker than they thought it was, maybe it was. Does

851
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: that make sense? I knew so many songs I knew

852
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: Lefty Frizel.

853
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: Did you feel like you had to prove yourself constantly,

854
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 2: because that's what I hear That's what I hear you saying,

855
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: is that you knew a lot and sometimes maybe people

856
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: didn't think you wouldn't know a lot since you weren't

857
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 2: white and from the South.

858
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: Oh. I felt like if I was willing to try

859
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: to prevent yeah, I was doubted, and that the whole

860
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: Harvard thing didn't help either. Frankly that but you know,

861
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: on the other hand, one of the reasons I loved

862
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: but I did love about country music. There was more.

863
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: There's more genius here than there was at Harvard, and

864
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: I'd be fair and that Ray Charles, because being educated

865
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: is not the same as being intelligent. And one of

866
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: the things I love about country, I don't recall a

867
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: change of any size. I love he stopped loving her

868
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: to dead. It's going to be horrible for a moment,

869
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: but good dynamic stasis. In almost all of Western literature,

870
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: we love it when the hero changes grows, But in

871
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: real life people often die without changing. And a country

872
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: song will scare you about that. That song of Bobby Breddicks.

873
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: They hung a wreath upon his door. Soon they'll carry

874
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: him away. He stopped loving her today. That song inspires

875
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: you to do something.

876
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: Because you don't because you don't want to be that.

877
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: You don't want to be that, you don't want to

878
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: just be stuck there. Country talks about the hard truths

879
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: of hard loves. I was teasing say, rock and roll

880
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: is about chasing women, chasing men. Country is about finding

881
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: some love when you're twenty five years in it, like

882
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Conway in that with your hair all up and curlers

883
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: and that faded something down. I just love to lay

884
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: you down. There's nothing in punk rock hard in that,

885
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: or Roseanne saying take the baby, grab the babies, and

886
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: the clothes on your back right now, Hardy wait in

887
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: the truck. The Dixie Chicks when they're talking about the

888
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: viral with some Black Eyed Peas. There's some hard things

889
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: going on in people's lives, and I am totally anti violence,

890
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: but there is Country has never shied away from the

891
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: actual reality of how hard it is to make a living,

892
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: how hard it is to keep the love going. But

893
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: I love That's one of the things I love about

894
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: this new song, Texas Hold Them. It's about keeping the

895
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: love going way into the thing. The Country has always been.

896
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 4: About that the Bobby cast will be right back. This

897
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 4: is the Bobby Cast.

898
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: Was this just happened to be timed that Beyonce put

899
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 2: her record out and then the book was there because

900
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 2: the timing's perfect.

901
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: I think it's a God thing. I think there is

902
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: some proof that God loves. There is God to get

903
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: It is totally Uh, there was no there was no

904
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 1: plan to it, that was any part of my plan.

905
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: Sure, it has been.

906
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: As I said, my whole thing started five years ago

907
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: when I thought I might only have you know, if

908
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: I only had a live amount of time to live

909
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: what I want to do. I started writing country songs

910
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: and getting the recorded thirty nine years ago. So this

911
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: album of songs that are re recording of songs that

912
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: have been recorded, it's been in the making thirty nine years.

913
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: It's a literal god thing of the universe coming together

914
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: that then it also shows that there's a common cause.

915
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: A lot of people all over the world love country music.

916
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: And one of the things I have experienced this as

917
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: I love that Dolly Parton, who's one of my favorite

918
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: songwriters of all time, and Willie Nelson, who's one of

919
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: my favorite songwriters of all time, are on this album.

920
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: But Anne Linda Martel because it's like a great, big

921
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: family reunion and the whole family's invited. And I feel

922
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: a little tearfully about that of being on your show

923
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: right now, because the Bobby Bone Show is the biggest

924
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 1: radio show in country. And when I was a young bride,

925
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: I was Marrie in eighty five, my first husband Black,

926
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 1: we got sent off to the he was a foreign

927
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: service officer to Manila in time for a revolution. And

928
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: I used to have friends in Nashville white friends Mark Sanders,

929
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: who would tape the country down I'm little cassettes and

930
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: send it to me in Manila because it's the only

931
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: way I could hear it. And I would play it

932
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: on a cassette player in the Philippines even during your

933
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: revolution and wait to hear those songs and wait to

934
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: see what it jumped up on the chart, what haddn't

935
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: And now people are doing that with yours thirty year countdown.

936
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: It's that same spirit. It's part of a family reunion.

937
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: Everybody loving this music all over the world.

938
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: So I have three final questions for you, Hope, I'm

939
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: not keeping you too long, Okay, Bill to be here.

940
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 2: Three final questions for you. What do you think has

941
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: been successful by country music from its creation to now?

942
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 2: What's the common theme that has been successful and has

943
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 2: maintained even though everybody complains about it changing all the time.

944
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: Do you still believe it has the four principles or

945
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 2: whatever you like? What's the common thread in successful country

946
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: music that has happened since day one to now?

947
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: It gives people those three compensations that they need for

948
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: the fact life life is hard, because it gives you

949
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: with the even when people are talking about the bro company.

950
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: Some countries, sometimes all you need to do is shake

951
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: your booty. Sometimes you just need the distraction from how

952
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: hard it is that it has. It recognizes life is hard,

953
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: and it's giving people either the wisdom or the distraction

954
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: to make it through another day.

955
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 2: Where do you think country music has lost? It's the

956
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: exact opposite question, but the same. Where do you think

957
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: it's lost its realness or it's you know, from its uh,

958
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 2: from its from its beginning that you kind of wish

959
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: it would go back to, and it might because it

960
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: happens to cycles.

961
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 3: What do you wish would happen?

962
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: I don't think it should be chasing trying to be

963
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: the coolest rock thing. I think it is grown folks

964
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: music for grown people. That and some grown people are

965
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: six years old because their life is so hard. And

966
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: so when it moves away from wisdom completely doesn't have

967
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: any God or faith in it, It is going the

968
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: wrong direction. It is trying to be something it will

969
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: never be because part of country music is it's wise,

970
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: it's wise and it's.

971
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: True perspective is what I feel about is a lot

972
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 2: of country music, right, Yeah, you don't, you don't give

973
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: perspective how easy things happening.

974
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: No, that's why that song, the hardy song Wait in

975
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: the track is so important, because that is about having

976
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: a series of bad choices to make and making the

977
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 1: best bad choice.

978
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: Final question about the book especially, I have a lot

979
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: of friends that they don't really read. They act like

980
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: they read, but they like to read just a little

981
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: bit so they can act like they So if I

982
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: were to be like, hey, I want you to read

983
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 2: this book, and they're gonna lie to me and say

984
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: they're gonna read it, but they're really just going to

985
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 2: read one chapter of the book. Now, I know it's

986
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: it's it's a terribly hard question, but I know they're

987
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: not gonna read the whole book.

988
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 3: I'm be honest with you.

989
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: Well, one they can listen to the audiobook.

990
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 3: And you're not gonna do that. I'm ya, what's gonna

991
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 3: happen right now? They're gonna go, They're gonna go, I'm

992
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: gonna read it.

993
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: But what can I What can I serve them that

994
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: they're going to finish reading this section of the book

995
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 2: and they're going to go, oh dang, I felt that,

996
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:55,959
Speaker 2: and it's actually going to inspire.

997
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 3: Them to read more, Like I need you to hit

998
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: them with something.

999
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: I think it's chapter eight. That's the one where you're

1000
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: going across country and you're hearing about the black cowboys

1001
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: and had some wild sex and some deep business stuff

1002
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: in it.

1003
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: It's got everything.

1004
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: Okay, that might be it, because what my friends do.

1005
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: They lie about reading books to me, They lie, did

1006
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: you read this? They're like, yeah, they read like people.

1007
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: That's one of the grown up things that that's part

1008
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: of the reality.

1009
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: Baby all to write a country song, I can't read,

1010
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: or baby allied about reading? Thank you, No, this is

1011
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: this has been amazing for me. Do you do you

1012
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: teach in classrooms still?

1013
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I am a professor.

1014
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 3: I know you're a professor. Yeah, and I do. I

1015
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 3: told everybody what you did before you came in.

1016
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'll be teaching two things. I'll teach black country.

1017
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: In the fall. I teach about two of the most

1018
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: fun things in the South, southern and soul food and

1019
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: country music.

1020
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 3: I when you teach sulfo, do people cook it?

1021
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: Do you do they cook? They read cookbooks. We also

1022
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: read theory, but yes, they actually have to cook and

1023
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: serve the food. So in the so, I do think

1024
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: I teach about two of the most important things that

1025
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: Southerners are most proud of and where American culture is

1026
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: that it's greatest, our great food and our great meats.

1027
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: Man, I wish I could eat because again, I went

1028
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 2: to probably one out of four weeks I went, so

1029
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: my town railroad tracks segregated. They had white quarters and

1030
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: black quarters. Still today, No, it's still what's crazy, it's

1031
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, still segregated, and about one out of

1032
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: four because I went to the Baptist church, but I

1033
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 2: would go over to Black church. And the thing about

1034
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: Black church was it may started a but you might

1035
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 2: all go home till two pm.

1036
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 3: Like it was all day, all day and all night.

1037
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: But you also got fed, which at white church that

1038
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: didn't hardly ever happen. A Black churches got fed well fed. Yeah,

1039
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 3: And it was like at the time, I guess my

1040
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 3: metabolism worked pretty well. I stayed skinny.

1041
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 2: I have a feeling if I went and was well

1042
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: fed at the same Black church today, i'd put on

1043
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: about forty pounds.

1044
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: Well, I'm still eating all that great food and I

1045
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: carry it.

1046
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: I love it.

1047
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: But I'm enjoying every moment of the great music and

1048
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: great food.

1049
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 3: I am not. I love I love the book.

1050
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to What I'm going to try

1051
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: to do is make my friends that I know like

1052
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 2: to lie about reading read little passages of it that

1053
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: hopefully inspire them to read other little passages of it.

1054
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: Well, I'm honored that you read it.

1055
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I read it as the version that's

1056
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: not even full, you know, when the pa they're not

1057
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 2: as much.

1058
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 3: I brought one for you, a gift that would.

1059
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: Be I brought this one. And I love that you

1060
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: and charlottage and are friends. One of the things I

1061
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: love about country songs are Poncho and Lefty, the friendship

1062
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: songs I and Paul. I love the great friendship songs

1063
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: to country, and I think I've written some of them too.

1064
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 3: I love that that's my guy.

1065
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 2: Like if he needed a kidney and he would take

1066
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 2: one from the white Devil what she calls all white people,

1067
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 2: I would give him one of my white Devil kidneys.

1068
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 3: I would because I love them. I mean, that's that's

1069
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 3: my guy, and he's.

1070
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: Been my main number one in all media, and we're

1071
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: each other's confidant in a lot of ways, and we share.

1072
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 2: You know, when people talk about their money. When you

1073
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: grow up like we did, we don't who do we

1074
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: talk about that with.

1075
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 3: We didn't know how to have it. We don't know

1076
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: who to talk to about it. And that's what we like.

1077
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 3: We trade that information because we trust each other. There's

1078
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 3: so much.

1079
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: Well, i'm his old auntie now, and so since you

1080
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: both are brother you're like some kind of soul twin brothers.

1081
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: I will give you some space if you ever want

1082
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: any over here.

1083
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 3: But he does call all white people the white devil.

1084
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 3: And I'm like, you know, not all of us. He's like, nah,

1085
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: it's the white devil.

1086
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: Well, you know, be like, not all, not all.

1087
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 3: You know.

1088
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you a little This end country

1089
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: thing is that when my father was when I was

1090
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: going up, my father used to say to me, if

1091
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: I ever dated a white boy, the only question would

1092
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 1: be who would he shoot first, me or the boy.

1093
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: And then one day I had to tell him I

1094
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: was dating someone that was white, and my father looked

1095
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: at me and he said, I can't help but love

1096
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: who you love. He turned on that don he was

1097
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: because he loved body country music. That's what country family

1098
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: it does. The hard thing.

1099
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 3: Well, thank you again, Alice. This has been amazing for me.

1100
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 2: And you know, we talked about a lot of you accolades,

1101
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: the songs you wrote before you got here, and I

1102
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: want to encourage everybody my Black country lie and say

1103
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: you read it all, but just start a chapter eight

1104
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 2: and then move from there. That'd be the way to

1105
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 2: get most of my people.

1106
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: I love that.

1107
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you. Please keep up the good work.

1108
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: It is so needed and instrumental.

1109
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: And sometimes history can get away from us because we

1110
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 2: either try to cover it up or make new versions

1111
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 2: of it, or even forget because people behind us covered

1112
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 2: it up or made new versions of it. So I

1113
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: really appreciate the effort and the passion that you have

1114
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 2: for this, and thank you for coming

1115
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: Over, Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.