1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Blomberg Business app, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: The NATO summit gets underway in Vilnius, Lithuania, Secretary General 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 2: again Stoltenberg giving a nine to the fresh faces in 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: the Alliance war. 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 3: Welcome to Prime Minister de Cristo Jean. Following the agreement yesterday, 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: we will soon also be welcoming Sweden as a full 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 3: fledged member. Let me also welcome President Ninosto, who have 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: been at many NATO summits before, but this is the 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 3: first NATO summit where you actually attend as a full 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 3: fledged member. So welcome to you. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 2: Saudi, welcome, Welcome indeed Finland and a full fledged member 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: of Stoltenberg says Sweden close behind. After Turkey dropped its 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: opposition yesterday, a very important development that followed our program 17 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: in an apparent response to the promise of F sixteen 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 2: fighter jets from the US. Remembering we talked about this 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 2: the key senators on the Foreign Relations Committee, we're holding 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: up the jets till Turkey allowed Sweden to join. And 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: here we are White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: making clear this is the policy of the administration. 23 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 4: President Biden has been clear and unequivocal for months that 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 4: he supported the transfer of F sixteen's to Turkya, that 25 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 4: this is in our national interest, it's in the interests 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 4: of NATO that Turkey had get that capability. He has 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 4: placed no caveats or conditions on that in his public 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 4: and private comments over the past few months, and he 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 4: intends to move forward with that transfer and consultation with Congress. 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 2: So a lot to talk about today with Mark Esper. 31 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: I'm glad to say the former Secretary of Defense is 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: with us, author of a sacred oath, who, by the way, 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: was just in Lithuania, I believe last time we spoke, 34 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: mister secretary. Welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. What is the 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: most important development coming from this summit today? 36 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 5: Thanks Joe, good to be with you. 37 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 6: Look, yes, and I was in Vilnius a couple months 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 6: ago talking about all these issues. I think in the 39 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 6: past twenty four thirty six hours. The important things are that, 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 6: as you noted, Turkey yielded and Sweden now has a 41 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 6: path to joining NATO. 42 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 5: That's good news. 43 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 6: Now it will take some time because it has to 44 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 6: be approved by Hungary as well, and then both the 45 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 6: parliaments of those countries. So that's number one. I think 46 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 6: number two is the news the frustration, if you will, 47 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 6: coming from bolodmore Zelenski about Ukraine not having a clear 48 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 6: action plan to join NATO. And I would pin that 49 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 6: mostly on Washington in terms of holding back on what 50 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 6: a clear, unfettered timeline would look like. And so I 51 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 6: think you have a very positive thing that happened, and 52 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 6: then you have this negative thing that seems to be 53 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 6: hanging over the meeting right now, the gathering. 54 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: Let's pick through these a little bit here with regard 55 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: to Turkey, remembering that Turkey was kicked out of the 56 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: F thirty five program, they wanted even more advanced jets, 57 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: mister secretary, now that they're going to get the F 58 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: sixteen's more conventional a few decades older. Is that the 59 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: right policy for this administration? 60 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, just to go back to your point, if you recall, 61 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 6: Turkey bought S four hundred Russian air defense systems, which 62 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 6: are very capable air defense systems, and Turkey was part 63 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 6: of the F thirty five program. The F thirty five 64 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 6: is a fifth generation stealth fighter, so clearly them having 65 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 6: both systems was incompatible, and I said internally and publicly 66 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 6: as well at the time that I could not support 67 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 6: them remaining part of the program or getting the F 68 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 6: thirty five. The F sixteen, however, is a fourth generation 69 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 6: fighter no stealth capabilities. So I don't see a problem 70 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 6: in terms of selling that capability to Turkey if it 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 6: will make them a better partner and more capable and 72 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 6: maybe help improve their behavior, if you will, within the 73 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 6: Alliance itself. They've been quite a troublesome ally at times, 74 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 6: at least over the last five years or so. 75 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: Well, based on your experience, your personal experience, mister secretary, 76 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: do you trust Turkey? 77 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 5: Well? You know, I write about this in my memoir. 78 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 6: How there were any number of issues that would that 79 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 6: would occur, whether it was the F thirty five. As 80 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 6: we just discussed Turkey holding up plans with regard to 81 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 6: how NATO would respond to a Russian invasion. Look, I 82 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 6: don't pin it on Turkey as much as I pinned 83 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 6: on Erwan, the man himself, who is who has moved 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 6: in a more authoritarian direction over the past many years, 85 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 6: and I think he's the issue, and we see it 86 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 6: playing out of the past twelve plus months with. 87 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 5: Sweden's bid to join NATO. He took us right to 88 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 5: the last. 89 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 6: Minute hold out and to finally assent to Sweden joining. 90 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 6: So to me, it's more about Ertuwan than it is 91 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 6: the people the country of Turkey itself. 92 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: Well, you know, President Ertawan has a big, guess, a 93 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 2: special relationship we can call it with Vladimir Putin. I 94 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: don't know if that's a help or a hindrance here 95 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: to the alliance to have that line of communication, but 96 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: is that mission here to pull Turkey away from Russia. 97 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, he's had a special relationship with another number 98 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 6: of countries in the region. It's hard to tell how 99 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 6: he will play on any issue in the case. Is 100 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 6: you just noted? You know, his relationship with Kutin enabled 101 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 6: the Black Seed deal that facilitated getting grain and other 102 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 6: food stuffs out of Ukraine so we could help feed 103 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 6: the world, and so it's been positive in that regard. Look, 104 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 6: I think it's good that he has a connection with Putin, 105 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 6: that he can speak to him. I'd like to see 106 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 6: him Erduwan be less troublesome within NATO with NATO partners 107 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 6: such as Greece. 108 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 5: He's had issues with. 109 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 6: France and others in the past, and you know he's played, 110 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 6: you know, an interesting role in Syria as well. 111 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 5: So he's all over the map, and. 112 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 6: It's part of him trying to to find his place 113 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 6: in Turkish history and his place in today's geoplogic political realm, 114 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 6: to be a leader, to be seen as an action 115 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 6: taker on any number of issues. 116 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned the other matter at hand, and that's 117 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: admitting Ukraine itself. We know that Presidents lens has been 118 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: asking for this, We know that Joe Biden has said 119 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 2: it's not the right time. And of course the idea 120 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: here is, you know, if you bring in a country 121 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: at war, that pretty much puts the entire alliance immediately 122 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: at war through Article five. Butin Stoltenberg did speak about 123 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: this today. There's a headline on our terminal. Mister Secretary 124 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: says NATO to offer Ukraine fast path to join when 125 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: conditions are met. Here's Stoltenberg today. 126 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: We will make many decisions for an even stronger alliance. 127 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: We will increase our practical and political support to Ukraine. 128 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: This will bring Ukraine closer to NATO where it belongs. 129 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: Mark Asper, I think this is what you were asking for. 130 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: Is the Alliance moving in the right direction, How would 131 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: it work? 132 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 6: Well that The unclear word is conditions, and that's what 133 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 6: Zelenski raised. What conditions are there that it need to 134 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 6: be met, because they can be defined at any time 135 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 6: by anybody, and so look, I think there are some 136 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 6: basic facts that most would agree on. Everybody the Alliance 137 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 6: agrees that Ukraine should be part of NATO. Everybody understands it. 138 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 6: It's not going to happen today, right because there is 139 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 6: an active war. But I think you could find some 140 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 6: type of language between not today and sometime, you know, 141 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 6: ill defined in the future. I've stated, I don't know 142 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 6: if it's feasible, but maybe you have some type of 143 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 6: conditional invitation if you will to Ukraine to join. First 144 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 6: of all, we know because we've just seen Finland and 145 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 6: Sweden it could take up to a year or longer 146 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 6: for countries for governments to approve a country's succession. So 147 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 6: you could begin that process now, but you would hold 148 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 6: out at the end once all the ratifications are in. 149 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 6: You could possibly say, look, We're not going to let 150 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 6: you in until the war meets some phase, maybe it 151 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 6: becomes frozen or something like that, and you're that much 152 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 6: quicker to getting to that entry point. And I think 153 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 6: that's part of Zelensky's concern. Look, the challenge was saying 154 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 6: when the war ends, which is what President Biden has said, 155 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 6: putin right, putin will just keep the war going on 156 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 6: forever and ever and ever. And that's not good enough either. 157 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 6: We have these frozen conflicts now all around the world. 158 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 6: I don't want to overstate I'm sorry in Georgia, Moldova, a 159 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 6: couple other places, but. 160 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 5: We can figure out a way short of that to 161 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 5: do it. 162 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 6: Look, we admitted West Germany into NATO at a time 163 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 6: when that country was divided between West and East, and 164 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 6: East was occupied by the Soviets. But yet we had 165 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 6: West Germany in and we never conceded East Germany to 166 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 6: the Soviets. 167 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 5: So I think there are. 168 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 6: Ways to do that if we could just be a 169 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 6: little bit more creative in Washington, the White House being 170 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 6: a little bit more willing to take some risk here. 171 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: I want to ask you about military readiness against the 172 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: backdrop of this blockade that Senator Tommy Tuberville has put 173 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: in place here with regard to the Pentagon's policy on abortion. 174 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: This is something I talked about recently with retired General 175 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: Arnold Punaro, who I'm sure you have worked with Marine 176 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 2: Corps on the number of nominees. At that point, we 177 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: were at two hundred and fifty three. There's a lot 178 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: of people being held up. Here's what he said, all the. 179 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 7: People in our military. They need to have confidence that 180 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 7: the promotion process is free from improper influence or bulletics. 181 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 7: And Senator Tubbabill has basically taken these flag and general 182 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 7: officers as political hostages. He has politicized the military promotion 183 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 7: and confirmation system. 184 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: This came to a head and a hearing today with 185 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: General Charles Brown, who is of course set to be 186 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 2: our next Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. What's your thought 187 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: on this, the level of readiness that might be impacted, 188 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: families that are waiting to move in temporary housing, those 189 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: who haven't received their promotions and therefore have not received 190 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: their raises. 191 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 5: Yeah. 192 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 6: Let me first begin by saying, look, Centator Tubberville has 193 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 6: a credible, honest, sincere policy issue with the Pentagon with 194 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 6: regard to the funding of abortions or the travel to 195 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 6: do so. That's one issue, So I don't take that 196 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 6: away from him. But I think it's wrong that uniformed 197 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 6: military officers are being held as political pawns until he 198 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 6: gets his way. I think there are other ways for 199 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 6: him to pursue that. I don't think I do. I 200 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 6: think it politicizes the military, the uniforms if you are 201 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 6: using them to extort what you want, right, it's after all, 202 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 6: it's the uniform guys are not making the policy here, 203 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 6: it's their civilian leader. So I don't agree with the 204 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 6: approach to do this. I do believe that it can 205 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 6: hurt military readiness. Over time, it gets worse and could 206 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 6: affect our national security. In fact, I joined my other predecessors, 207 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 6: former secretaries of Defense in May and we wrote a 208 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 6: letter to Minority Leader McConnell and Majority Leader Schumer to say, look, 209 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 6: we think this is the wrong approach. We are concerned 210 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 6: about readiness and national security and do not use do 211 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 6: not politicize the military. That's one thing I tried my 212 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 6: best to do when I was in office was not 213 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 6: allow the uniform military DoD to be politicized. 214 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 2: So it sounds like it is impacting our readiness or 215 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: it's about you. 216 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 6: Well, if you don't have a confirmed leader in a role, 217 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 6: and that's what we have today with regard to the 218 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 6: common out of the Marine Corps, then they don't have 219 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 6: really the full means. They can't act in ways it 220 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 6: could presume confirmation by the Senate. I know it sounds 221 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 6: a little technical, but it does inhibit their ability to 222 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 6: make certain decisions and to do certain things. And this 223 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 6: is just one of nearly the entire Joint Chiefs of 224 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 6: Staff is changing over the next few months. You know, 225 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 6: Millie is going to be replaced, the Air Force chief 226 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 6: is going to be replaced, The Chief of Staff the 227 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 6: Army is replaced, the Cno the Navy's going to be replaced, 228 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 6: and you had to comment on replaced yesterday. So look, 229 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 6: you're going to have all but I think two members 230 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 6: of the Joint Chiefs turn over, and then there's one 231 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 6: hundreds a couple hundred other people in key positions, whether 232 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 6: it's the head of the fifth Fleet in Bahrain, seventh 233 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 6: Fleet in the Pacific. You know, I think the military 234 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 6: Advisor in NATO to NATO is also going to be 235 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 6: held up. So this has ramifications all around the world 236 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 6: with regard to again military readiness and our ability to 237 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 6: interact with allies and adversaries. 238 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in 239 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: on it. Mark Esper the former US Secretary of Defense, 240 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: former Secretary of the Army as well. He's been very 241 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: close to this stuff for a long time, an author 242 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: a sacred oath. Thanks for being with us, mister Secretary. 243 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington as we assembled our panel 244 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: on this first day of the NATO summitt. Rick Davis 245 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: is here along with Genie Shanzino Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, 246 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: after we spoke on the radio here at this time 247 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: yesterday we learned the news about Sweden. Is this just 248 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 2: a transactional relationship that we have with Turkey, Fine, we'll 249 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: give you the jets Sweden suddenly gets in. Well, look, these. 250 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 8: Are sovereign countries. Turkey's no different and they have different priorities. 251 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 8: And as Secretary Esper just described, Turkey has been very 252 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 8: helpful to us in some cases and very problematic in others. 253 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 8: And yet you put that right on the leadership. This 254 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 8: is an Erdawan problem. And so in this case, it 255 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 8: was transactional. I mean, it was predictable. We talked about 256 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 8: it as you say yesterday. I mean, you know, there's 257 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 8: as much a trade going on with F six seeds 258 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 8: as there were with changing the rules in Sweden around 259 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 8: their treatment of terrorist groups as defined by Turkey. So 260 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 8: everybody sort of played their role. It's political solutions to 261 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 8: these kinds of problems. But the bottom line is something 262 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 8: really good came out of it, with Sweden's ascension into NATO. 263 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 8: I would say you're kind of missing that in the 264 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 8: conversations around Ukraine, where Zelenski's definitely going to leave this 265 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 8: NATO meeting disappointed. He wanted a clear path, and even 266 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 8: though they made it a shorter path, they didn't make 267 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 8: it any clearer. 268 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: GINI just the last of what twenty four to forty 269 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 2: eight hours, it was cluster munitions, now it's F sixteen's 270 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 2: for Turkey. Is this administration following the right policies? 271 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 9: You know, I disagree with them on the cluster munitions. 272 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 9: I do agree on the F sixteens, and I think 273 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 9: we should not you know, we should underscore the amount 274 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 9: of diplomacy that went into getting Turkey to move on 275 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 9: this and they did not get everything they wanted. You know, 276 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 9: Erdigan has been talking a lot about entry into the EU. 277 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 9: That's not going to happen anytime soon, but I think 278 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 9: it is really important in a huge success story that 279 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 9: they moved on this issue of Sweden, and Sweden will eventually, 280 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 9: as you were just discussing, it's going to take some 281 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 9: time be an official member of NATO. And let's not 282 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 9: forget what the map looks like today in terms of 283 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 9: NATO compared to what it looked like when the war 284 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 9: with Ukraine and Russia began. This is all of Putin's doing. 285 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 9: He is now facing a front of NATO which is 286 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 9: something like you know, he and other Russians could have 287 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 9: never imagined what occurs. So it is a huge, huge 288 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 9: loss for Putin and a big win for NATO. 289 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: It is quite remarkable to think that the very thing 290 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin didn't want he actually hastened. He made it 291 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: happen by invading Ukraine. We'll have more on that with 292 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: our panel next. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 293 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 294 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 295 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 296 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 297 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Hey Alexa played Bloomberg eleven. 298 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: The summit underway in Vilnius, NATO leaders agreeing that Ukraine 299 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: will not need a so called membership action plan to 300 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: prepare for joining the Alliance. President Biden, of course on 301 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: the ground there as well, with Ukraine very much the 302 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: topic of conversation and Vladimir Putin watching along the way. 303 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 10: It's great to be back in Bilis. I was here 304 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 10: in twenty fourteen as Vice president, shortly after the Russian 305 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 10: invasion of Ukraine first time, and at the time talked 306 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 10: about what I thought Russia was likely to continue to do. 307 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 10: Some people were somewhat skeptical of my judgment at the time, 308 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 10: but unfortunately it turned out to be accurate. 309 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: Fortunately he was right. Let's reassemble the panel. Rick Davis, 310 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: GD Schanzeno join us Bloomberg Politics contributors with an ie 311 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 2: on Lithuania today. This idea of admitting Ukraine to the 312 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: Alliance Genie is a confounding one. I know that the 313 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: idea is to expand NATO. But you've got a country 314 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: in a hot war. What should these conditions look like 315 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: that Ukraine would have to meet. 316 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 9: Well, you know, I was reading what Zelensky said, and 317 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 9: he was very very clear. He described this as unprecedented 318 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 9: and absurd. He wants, as you mentioned, clear guidelines, and 319 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 9: he said this is a sign of weakness to Russia. 320 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 9: And he said, I think uncertainty is weakness. So we 321 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 9: need certainty in terms of some kind of time frame 322 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 9: and some kind of conditions to join. That said, I 323 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 9: think that is going to be a little bit hard 324 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 9: to achieve at this NATO meeting. It's probably premature. I mean, 325 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 9: let's just look at one issue. If the NATO was 326 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 9: to invite Ukraine in now, what would they be signing 327 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 9: What would we be signing on to defend? Is it NATO? 328 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 9: Is it rather Ukraine as it looks today? Is it 329 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 9: Ukraine as it looked before the invasion? Is Ukraine has 330 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 9: looked in the nineties. I mean, that's just one of 331 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 9: the big questions. The Article five trigger is another. So 332 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 9: there's a whole bunch of questions that need to be addressed. 333 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 9: And it's just the US. There are other member States 334 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 9: who are reluctant to move forward on this at this time. 335 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 9: So I think what we're going to see is we 336 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 9: are going to see this language, which is arguably not 337 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 9: as detailed and strong as as Lelensky would like, until 338 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 9: they could come together with some kind of agreement on conditions, 339 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 9: the number one being there's got to be some kind 340 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 9: of peace fire. But to your point, that sets put 341 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 9: in a measure or to what we just heard previously 342 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 9: from the secretary that tells Putin just keep this war going, 343 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 9: and you know they'll never join. So that's a problem 344 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 9: as well. 345 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: What do you think of that? Rick Mark Asper got 346 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: to that. I mean, even talking about this threatens to 347 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: possibly prolong this war for Ukraine, and certainly Vladimir Lensky 348 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: doesn't want that. 349 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, the hot mic around President Biden has this way 350 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 8: of really screwing up foreign policy. I mean, the idea 351 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 8: that we're going to predicate the Ukraine ascension to NATO 352 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 8: on its quote end of the war is just a 353 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 8: gift of Vladimir Putin. I mean, you know, it's like 354 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 8: when we going to walk that one back. The reality 355 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 8: is there are it's a sovereign country, it has borders. 356 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 8: Those borders were recommitted to in the Mesk agreements when 357 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 8: Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and Russia signed that agreement. 358 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 8: So there's no question where Ukraine starts and where it stops. 359 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 8: And so it's not a matter of adjusting borders. It's 360 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 8: a matter of whether or not you have the technical 361 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 8: capabilities to be able to support the NATO system. And 362 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 8: so you know they've got work to do. And this 363 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 8: is what the NATO Agreement is is to say, look, 364 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 8: we're going to rationalize your communication so that if it's 365 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 8: into the NATO system, We're going to rationalize your system 366 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 8: of military so that it is consistent with the NATO system. 367 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 8: There's a lot of equipment that needs to be upgraded 368 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 8: in order to be able to communicate across NATO. So 369 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 8: there are some specific things, but the idea to then 370 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 8: stop short and say even if you do those things, 371 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 8: we're not going to grant you access to NATO. It 372 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 8: doesn't mean that they have to actually say at the 373 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 8: end of the day, we're to declare war on Russia. 374 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 8: We didn't declare war on Eastern Germany when we let 375 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 8: Western Germany in, and so there are conditions to being 376 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 8: a NATO member and Article five does not have to 377 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 8: be triggered in the course of this battle, but it 378 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 8: would send a much stronger message to Vladimir Putin to 379 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 8: be able to say that Zelensky got what he wanted, 380 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 8: a commitment to come into NATO under certain conditions that 381 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 8: he has to meet that are clear and just, and 382 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 8: that would have been a much better signal to send 383 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 8: Russia about trying to stop this war if they knew 384 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 8: that ultimately it's only going to get stronger with Ukraine's 385 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 8: participation in NATO. 386 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: An important conversation in Washington today about our military readiness, 387 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: which we also discussed with the former Defense Secretary. An 388 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: important hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee, that would 389 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 2: be General Charles Q. Brown se Q. Brown. This is 390 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: the future chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and 391 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: he was asked about this hole, the blockade that Senator 392 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: Tommy Tuberville, who incidentally is on that committee, has brought 393 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: forth to delay the promotions of Now it appears to 394 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: be several hundred military officers, including in this case the 395 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 2: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who might not get a 396 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 2: floor vote because of all of this Turberville's hold has 397 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: also caused the Marine Corps to go without a confirmed 398 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: leader for the first time since eighteen fifty nine, according 399 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: to the Defense Department. Now the General General Brown was 400 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: asked it was actually a conversation with Elizabeth Warren, which 401 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: may not come as a surprise, about the impact of 402 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 2: the blockade, and he talked about what it meant for 403 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 2: senior officers, what it meant for junior officers waiting for 404 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: their pay increases, and kind of being in the wrong 405 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 2: position at some point, holding a seat somebody else deserved. 406 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 2: But then he got to military families. Listen to what 407 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: he said. 408 00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 5: Theary that hits us. 409 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 11: I think that we do need to think about is 410 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 11: how it impacts our families, because it has an impact 411 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 11: not just for the senior officer, but. 412 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 5: All their staff and all those below them. It has 413 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 5: an impact. 414 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 11: And as you had, it's whether it's schools, whether it's employment, 415 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 11: or the fact that they've already sold their home because 416 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 11: they thought they were going to move and now are 417 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 11: living in temporary quarters. That creates a challenge. The lasting 418 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 11: at highlight on Thatt is my concern. There's future retention 419 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 11: because we have our more junior officers who now will 420 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 11: look up and say, if that's the challenge I'm going 421 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 11: to have to deal with in the future, I want 422 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 11: to I'm gonna balance between my family and serving in 423 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 11: a senior position, and we will lose. 424 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: Talent because everyone asks why would I sign up? Jinny, 425 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: what's your thought on this? And I don't think this 426 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: is a part is an issue. Although Tommy Tuberville didn't 427 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: bring it up himself, by the way, he was checked 428 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: on this by Elizabeth Larren, of course not a fan 429 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 2: of this Republican senator, but it's pretty clear according to 430 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: not only General Brown, but what we heard from Mark Asper, 431 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: that this is having an impact. 432 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 9: It absolutely is. We also heard from the commanding General 433 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 9: in the US Army of Europe and Africa yesterday over 434 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,239 Speaker 9: at the NATO summit, who asked the senators there to 435 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 9: help them overcome his filibuster because it is. He described 436 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 9: the actions as reprehensible, irresponsible, and dangerous. This is all 437 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 9: coming and it has been months. This has been going 438 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 9: on the eleventh time. Tuberbilt took the floor yesterday saying 439 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 9: he will not back down. As the military is facing 440 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 9: recruiting problems, he is stopping any actions why because women 441 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 9: are being allowed in the military to get legal health care. 442 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 9: That is what he is doing. It is reprehensible and 443 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 9: it is dangerous and it should be stopped. And I 444 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 9: don't know if there's anything Schumer can do at this point, 445 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 9: but the other senators should step up. I know it's 446 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 9: a difficult situation for them because this is how our 447 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 9: Senate works, but it is dangerous for the United States 448 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 9: for this to continue. 449 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 2: How do you see this playing out here? Rick, We're 450 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: talking about an abortion policy. As Genie mentioned women's healthcare 451 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: at the Pentagon. The Senator is pretty clear he's not 452 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: going to back down on this. 453 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know where the confusion is with Tommy. 454 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 8: You know, the job of the Senate is to confirm. 455 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 8: That means they look into the backgrounds and look in 456 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 8: the capabilities and determine whether these individuals can serve our 457 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 8: country in the jobs that they've been appointed to by 458 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 8: the President of the United States. It's not everybody who 459 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 8: has to go through confirmation. He's the most important people 460 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 8: in the federal government who have lad through confirmation. And 461 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 8: it is not extortion. It doesn't say the Senate will 462 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 8: extort its confirmation capability. And so you know, Tommy, I'm 463 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 8: sure considers himself a strict constitutionalist, and he really ought 464 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 8: to look into this and figure out how much he's 465 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 8: warping the sensibility of the role of the Senate. And 466 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 8: the one person who I think could have an impact 467 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 8: on this is Mitch McConnell, and the minority leader of 468 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 8: the United States Senate has been incredibly silent on this. 469 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 5: And he's not a wallflower. 470 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 8: He's not used to sitting in the back seat. And 471 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 8: so I think this is an issue that at this point, 472 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 8: you know, the c Q Brown testimony guy going up 473 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 8: to become the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the president's 474 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 8: number one advisor on the military at a time when 475 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 8: the world is a dangerous place, and Tommy's keeping him 476 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 8: from taking his job because he wants to change up 477 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 8: policy that they don't even have the ability to implement. 478 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 8: I mean, it's nuts. And so where's Mitch McConnell when 479 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 8: you need him? 480 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: Wow? 481 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: Rick just just said a lot, Genie. I don't know 482 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 2: if you want to try to put a bow on that, 483 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 2: but we're looking at potentially fifteen hundred amendments that are 484 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: many of which related to culture wars tied to the 485 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: NDAA that could impact Pentagon funding. 486 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 9: That's right, and this is going to be another struggle. 487 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 9: I love to put on bow on what Rick Davis says, 488 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 9: but I don't think I'm capable. But I couldn't agree 489 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 9: more with what he said. And Mitch McConnell has been 490 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 9: saying this is not the best way to go about this, 491 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 9: but he hasn't. They haven't really pushed Coach Tupperville, and 492 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 9: they really need to because this has been going on 493 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 9: for months and the problems are stacking up. As you mentioned, 494 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 9: this issue involving how it is impacting people not just 495 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 9: at the top echelons of the military, but people at 496 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 9: a time line officers when the military is desperate for 497 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 9: recruits is dramatic. And he is holding this all up 498 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 9: and the Pentagon is not going to blink, nor should they. 499 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis. We're going to turn to 500 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 2: the Microsoft News. Coming up next, Jennifer Ree will join 501 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: us a win in court for mister Softy. 502 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 503 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 504 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App or listen on 505 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 506 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 2: You could call it a shot across the ball at 507 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 2: the FTC. It's just unclear if it will matter. Microsoft's 508 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 2: It's a major win in court. Amazing move here in 509 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 2: shares of Activision, those who had patients are being rewarded. 510 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: Microsoft now set to move forward with the big deal 511 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 2: to buy Activision Blizzard, a sixty nine billion dollars deal 512 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: that we've talked about quite a bit bit here on 513 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 2: sound On. This has been going on for a while. 514 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: So they beat the FTC, but of course they already 515 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 2: lost the case in the UK right and it's unclear 516 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: how any of this will come together, but investors seem 517 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: to think it's all green lights. You know who we 518 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: need to talk to when it comes to this story, 519 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 2: along with anything having to do with antitrust. That would 520 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: be Jennifer Ree, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior litigation analyst. Jenet, it's 521 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: great to have you finally happened. You said it would 522 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: happen by now that we'd get a ruling because this 523 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: deal was just about to expire. Can Microsoft actually move 524 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: forward though, considering the other obstacles. 525 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 12: Well, Joe you know, things aren't moving really fast. The 526 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 12: news is coming in hot and heavy. It really looks 527 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 12: like the UK at this point is backpedaling a little bit. 528 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 12: And I think you laid it out really well. You know, 529 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 12: they're basically free to clear in the US, but they 530 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 12: still have this hurdle in the UK which had blocked 531 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 12: the deal, and they have an appeal now pending of 532 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 12: that decision. But it looks like that litigation has been stayed. 533 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 12: The companies are to talking to the UK Competition of 534 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 12: Markets Authority about restructuring the deal, as they said, which 535 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 12: I think is kind of more of a safe faced 536 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 12: way of looking at it, and they're talking about a settlement. 537 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 12: I believe they'll get there. I don't think they would 538 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 12: have stayed the litigation and be engaging in talks if 539 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 12: the CMA wasn't serious and Joe unbelievable. If they can 540 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 12: get that done, and they can get it done in 541 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 12: the next couple days, they could actually close this deal 542 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 12: before their July eighteenth end date. 543 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 2: Wow. And I guess a lot of people on Wall 544 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 2: Street seem to think that's going to happen. And this 545 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 2: has been a remarkable turnaround, and I wonder what it 546 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: says to Lena Conn's tenure here at the FTC as 547 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 2: you know, well, she has what could be a pretty 548 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: challenging hearing on Capitol Hill this week. 549 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 12: You know, she really does, and her mission was a 550 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 12: tough one to begin with. What she's trying to do 551 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 12: is hard, and she knew that it would be hard. 552 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: You know. 553 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 12: I've kind of likened these lawsuits that she's been bringing 554 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 12: against mergers and even some of the monopolization cases bringing 555 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 12: against companies kind of like playing the lottery. You don't 556 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 12: have a very good chance of winning, but you have 557 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 12: to be in it to win it. And I think 558 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 12: her view is that if I'm going to try to 559 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 12: move antitrust Lockboward to expand it, to make it easier 560 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 12: in the future to try to block other deals that 561 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 12: are pending, I have to try. I have to go 562 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 12: to Port on these cases. If I don't go to 563 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 12: port at all, it's not going to change anything. And 564 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 12: it's not really a surprise that she lost here. It's 565 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 12: very difficult to prove in court that a deal that 566 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 12: really just vertically integrates two companies could actually cause harm 567 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 12: to a market, and they failed to show evidence of 568 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 12: that in this case. 569 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: How about that the deal expires? Was it the eighteenth? 570 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: Do I remember that right? A week from today? 571 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 9: Yes? 572 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 2: So this ing the next week? You expect significant news? 573 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 12: Sounds like I do now a couple things. The end 574 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 12: it's the eighteenth. That doesn't necessarily mean the deal expires. 575 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 12: It means the eighteenth is the day that either party 576 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 12: could walk away. If neither walk away, the agreement is 577 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 12: still in effect. But I suspect they're trying really hard 578 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 12: to get this closed before the eighteenth. And so in 579 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 12: the UK, if they're negotiating settlements, if worse comes to worse, 580 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 12: what they may be able to do If they can't 581 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 12: get to an agreement by then, they may agree with 582 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 12: the UK to allow them to close, but hold the 583 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 12: asset separate until those negotiations are done. So I think 584 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 12: I think they'll get closed. That's my prediction here, Joe, 585 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 12: that they're going to get closed before their end date 586 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 12: of the eighteenth. 587 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: This is why I love Bloomberg Intelligence and Jennifer Reed, 588 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: among other things, because you guys actually say what you 589 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 2: think and it's based on real research. Jennifer, thank you 590 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: for great reporting on this and analysis here on Bloomberg's 591 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 2: sound on, curious to hear what the panel thinks about it. 592 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano have been watching this with 593 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: us here along with a number of other challenges to 594 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: m and A by this administration. Genie, is Lena Kahan 595 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: going to be on her heels at this testimony. She's 596 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 2: going to be in front of Jim Jordan's panel Judiciary 597 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: Committee this week, and she just had a pretty major 598 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 2: loss in court. 599 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 9: That's right, and it's one of several and it's the 600 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 9: House Judiciary Committee. They are going to be tough. As 601 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 9: we know, when she took the helm of the Commission, 602 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 9: you had a lot of Republican commissioners leave. So I 603 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 9: think it is going to clearly be a really, really 604 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 9: tough hearing for her. No surprise there. I am not 605 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 9: surprised by the judge's decision in this case. I think, 606 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 9: as you were just talking to Jen about, it always 607 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 9: was an uphill battle. But I do think, and that's 608 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 9: what has driven some of this with Lena Khan, that 609 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 9: she does really feel what Jen says. She has to 610 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 9: move these cases forward, in other words, in risk losing 611 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 9: as she has to make progress. So I don't think 612 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 9: she regrets these actions, but she knows what is in 613 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 9: front of her. 614 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: Now that we see this unfolding the way it is, Rick, 615 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: does it behoove this administration to start picking its battles 616 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: more carefully here? 617 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 8: Well, you know, look, this is the problem with being 618 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 8: in power, right. You have all these very well trained 619 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 8: people in all these agencies fighting what they think is 620 00:30:59,440 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 8: the good fight. 621 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like wacka moll. 622 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 8: When I was in the Reagan White House, I ran 623 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 8: the Domestic Policy Council and and we woke up every 624 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 8: morning finding out new things in the newspaper about what 625 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 8: our appointees had done. And sometimes it was good, sometimes 626 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,239 Speaker 8: it wasn't so good. So h look, at the end 627 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 8: of the day. Uh, you know, Lina might be proven 628 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 8: right if in six months Sony PlayStation can't get Call 629 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 8: of Duty on it, then you're going to see a backlash. 630 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 8: You know, call of Duty has to be on a 631 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 8: Sony PlayStation. So, uh, we'll see whether or not she 632 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 8: proves correct or not. But look, I mean this is 633 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 8: a heavy burden to carry by any administration. You know, 634 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 8: these big companies like lockeed Martin and the Video they 635 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 8: have a plan and frankly, you know, they tend to 636 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 8: have a bigger ability to compete overall across the world. Uh, 637 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 8: it's scale, and so you got to just weigh what 638 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 8: those consequences are if these if these firms aren't able 639 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 8: to grow beyond the giant size that they've become. 640 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was last June, June seventeen. I just looked 641 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 2: it up that Steve Balmer himself predicted on this program. 642 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 2: Of course, the former CEO of Microsoft, predicted that this 643 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 2: would actually go through, that they would win the case 644 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: in court. Activision's CEO Bobby Kotik spoke to this back 645 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: in April. 646 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 13: It clearly is an a rational conclusion, and I think 647 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,719 Speaker 13: we have every expectation, as does Microsoft, that we should 648 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 13: prevail in an appeal with the tribunal. 649 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 2: And here we are with Activision shares surgeing eleven percent. 650 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: It actually happened, as I mentioned, those who were patient 651 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: apparently rewarded. But as we heard from Jenniferree as well, 652 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: we have some things to iron out overseas, specifically with 653 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: the UK, but you've got one week to get it done. 654 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: The eighteenth of July is when the deal expires. We'll 655 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 2: see what happens with all of this final thoughts Ahead 656 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 2: from Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano. As baseball once again 657 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 2: collides with presidential politics. 658 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 659 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 660 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 661 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 662 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:18,239 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 663 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 2: To gear up for the big All Star Game tonight. 664 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 2: We're reminded of the many occasions that baseball intersects with 665 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 2: presidential politics. In nineteen eighty nine, former president guy with 666 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: the name of Ronald Reagan got into the booth to 667 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: do color commentary with Vince Scully. As Ozzie Smith was 668 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 2: thrown out stealing second base, Bo Jackson was on deck, 669 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 2: and as. 670 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 13: Bo Jackson comes up, we talked about Ozzie Smith and 671 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 13: you were in a Cardinal uniform, and Jackson wears baseball 672 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 13: and football, and you did football. 673 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 10: I yes, I played the gibber, but I also played 674 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 10: for real in a much earlier time. 675 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: Put that bow down there. That's a pretty interesting hobby. 676 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 5: He has for his vacation. When baseball ends, he winds up. 677 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: Playing playing football. I just I don't know if there's 678 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: everything on Mark von and look at that one. 679 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 5: Yes says hello. 680 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: Bo Jackson says hello, and so does the former president. 681 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: He spent quite a bit of time in the booth 682 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 2: that night, capturing the attention of Americans watching this unfold 683 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: at home as we reassembled a panel with Rick Davis 684 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 2: and Genie Shanzano. There's something about it, Rick, I don't 685 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 2: know what it is when when high level Paul's when 686 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 2: it's a senator or a president caught in the act 687 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: doing something normal people can't get enough of it. 688 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. 689 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 8: I remember one of the moments that that struck home 690 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 8: here in New York is in two thousand and one, 691 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 8: in October, the Arizona Diamondbacks playing the Yankees in the 692 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 8: World Series Game three, John McCain and Rudy Giuliani's sitting 693 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 8: down at the field, and that was one of the 694 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 8: greatest standing ovations I've ever seen for at the time 695 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 8: Mayor Giuliani and just being there with John McCain was 696 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 8: enough to really take it all in. 697 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 2: How great is that? Genie? What's the lesson here for 698 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: Joe Biden. 699 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 9: Well, the lesson for you is always go to Rick 700 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 9: when you're going to talk sports, because that is always 701 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 9: the best option. You know, there's a long history, obviously, 702 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 9: we can think back to Franklin Roosevelt throwing out the 703 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 9: first pitch in nineteen thirty four between presidents at baseball. 704 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 9: It is America's institution. Not that I know so much 705 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 9: about it, but you know, I think that Joe Biden, 706 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 9: he like all presidents, is going to try to join 707 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 9: in on what Americans think of as their pastime. And 708 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 9: you know, if he wasn't overseas, he'd be here tonight. 709 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 9: I'm sure. 710 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well put your shields down. I guess is maybe 711 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 2: the lesson act like a normal person for once. Rick 712 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 2: and Jeanie as normal as they get. Thank you, as always, 713 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast. Make sure 714 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 2: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and 715 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 2: anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find 716 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, d See at one 717 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 2: pm Eastern times at Bloomberg dot com.