WEBVTT - Why Do People Believe In Faith Healing? 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:14.000 dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.880 and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there, 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.759 and this is stuff you should know. We're about to 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:25.840 lay our hands all over you. Who knows what will happen? 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:32.960 Maybe nothing, who knows? Yeah? That was gross? How so 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.640 lay your hands on me? That a bon Jovie song? Uh? No? 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:45.960 Hold on? Who was that? Was that? Bon job? Oh? 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.159 Thompson Twins? Maybe Jerry, did you hear she just said 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.280 duff Leppard. No, I don't think that's pour some sugar 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.640 on me, good cob. What it's wrong with you to 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.880 pour some hands on me? No? Lay your hands on me? 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.200 On me is like, Uh, I think it's a Tompson 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.280 Twins song or something like that. Well, that's not the 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.160 one I'm thinking of. I don't know what you're thinking of. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:08.840 I'm thinking of the bon Jovi song. I'll be the 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.520 bon Jovi song is dirtier than this song. Uh. Then 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:17.280 Thompson Twins, Yeah, yeah, I would say so. Yeah, Thompson 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.840 Twins were real clean cut, not bon Jovi. Ended up 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:26.039 weirdly seeing bon Jovi in concert. Uh two times. I'll 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.720 bet that was rid. I'll bet you're like, what am 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.080 I doing here? Well? One time they opened up for 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:35.399 thirty eight Special? How did I get here? Wait? Wait, wait, wait, 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.880 wait a second, I'm sorry you walk right that's that way? Yeah? 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.360 Does that mean you intended to be at the thirty 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.800 eight Special concerts? Oh yeah, dude. Yeah. It was like 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.040 twelve all right, way into the southern rock scene back then, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:52.920 and still am to some degree. I still like me 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:56.080 them some thirty eight Special. Uh. And then bon Jovi 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.080 opened up. It was before they were uh, you know, 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.440 before they were bond VI, like they were opening up 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.360 for bands. Well, sure, yeah. And then I saw them again. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.240 I won't name names, but I saw them again in 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.640 high school at the peak of their fame, when a 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.040 person at my high school had bought two tickets and 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.640 could not get any of the girls at school to 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.680 go with him. Weird, during the height of bon Jovi's fame. Yeah, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.560 and so this guy must have been a real dog. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.359 I felt bad for this person, and so I went 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.880 and saw bon Jovi with this person. And that's just 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:33.560 the kind of guy I was back then. These days, 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.600 I would have said buzz off. Are you still friends 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:41.440 with this guy? Okay? Does he listen to the podcast? Uh? Maybe? Well, 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.399 let's just edit out me calling him a dog. Then 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:50.079 I'm sure he grew into a fine specimen. Okay. Well, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.480 as you know, I can play all of bon Jovi's 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:56.920 Slippery when Wet on the Quaker oat Boxes in my 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:02.000 air band. Oh that's right, yep. Although I never saw 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.200 him in concert, well, I gotta say that that second Uh, like, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.800 I never would have paid to go see them, But 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.400 it wasn't bad. Yeah, I wouldn't think it would be. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.040 I mean, they're they're they're pros. They know what they're doing. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:20.120 You know. So the first concert not so great. I 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.639 mean for an opening band. You know, I got Runaway. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.000 That was kind of the only notable song they had 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.440 at the time. Um, that Tom Petty's song. No, No No, No, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.280 She's a little Runaway. I didn't know it was. I 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.440 thought that was Thompson Twins. This has been a great 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.920 open Yeah, especially for people who are interested in faith healing. 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.400 You're like, who are these guys. Let's get to it, 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:48.200 shall we? Yes? Okay, so we're talking today about faith healing. 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.680 We've actually talked about some of this before, I would 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:55.000 refer everybody to our two thousand eight twenty minute long 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:02.360 how Prayer Healing episode works? Remember of that. Nope, that 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.360 that whole that cardiology study about intercessory prayer didn't ring 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.800 a bell with you at all. A little bit that 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:13.160 was that's where it found. It's it's purchased originally. So 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.960 this is much much bigger, broader picture that we're looking at. Right, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.440 But when you talk about faith healing, there are basically 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:29.080 two types that people kind of lump into two different categories. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.880 One is prayer. Right, There's this idea and it's it's 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.599 a pretty widely held idea among people all around the 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.839 world of different religions, of different cultures that by praying 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:45.839 to God, you're kind of beaming some well wishes to 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.200 God in the hopes that He acts as a bit 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.240 of a satellite and beams them down onto the person 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.440 you're you're praying for, whether it be like that they 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.400 they the ants that have taken up residents in their 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:04.960 cast go away, or um, that they get over their cancer, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.520 or that they have a better day than you know 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.240 they're having, um, whatever it is. If you step back 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.280 and look at it, what you're talking about is completely 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.120 senseless as far as science is concerned. And it's a 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.200 form of faith healing. It's it's saying I believe that 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.360 by praying, I can affect something about this this person's 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:30.200 physical or mental state, and that's one form of faith healing. Yeah, 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:35.000 and for me, I'm not a religious guy anymore as 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.600 people know. But uh, if someone says to me for 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.719 any reason that they're going to pray for me, depending 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:44.560 on who it is in the mood I'm in, it 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.360 can vary from me just sort of quality, Like I 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.080 would never confront someone over that or say don't do that. 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.200 I don't believe in that. You don't bear your teeth 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.599 and hiss at him. But it might in my own 0:05:55.640 --> 0:06:01.240 brain either be like whatever all the way to you 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.960 know what, I'll take that, thank you. Well, depending on 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.839 what kind of um procedure you're going in for, somebody 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:11.640 says that you may want to be like whoa, whoa, 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.640 Just hold off on that one. Okay, what do you mean? 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.080 So there was a study, Yeah, there was a study 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:24.640 on intercessory prayer and it was a pretty good study 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.800 using the scientific method that cut people up into three 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:33.560 different categories. It was and I think two patients all 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:38.000 receiving the exact same procedure coronary bypass surgery at six 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.719 different hospitals, and three groups of people, um who I 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:47.240 think like represented Catholics, uh nondenominational Christians, and I think 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.840 Carmelite nuns were all approached and asked to pray for 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:55.320 these people. These carmelized nuns, carmel lite nuns, they're not 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.240 nearly as delicious they're they're regular nuns. So the the 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.960 three groups prayed for these people, and they said they 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.839 prayed for them based on their first name and last initial, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.840 so please help John C. To feel better. And then 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:14.320 they specifically, all of them prayed specifically for a successful 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:19.120 surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications. Those 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.280 are the two the two requirements that they used their 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.960 first name, last initial, and then they include that however 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.880 else they wanted to pray is just totally fine. And 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.720 they studied these groups that were actually prayed for and 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.960 they divided them up into three groups. Right, there was 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.400 a group that did not receive any prayer. There was 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.320 a group that did receive prayer, but we're told they 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.480 may or may not be receiving prayer. Then there was 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.120 a third group that was that received prayer and were 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.760 told that they were receiving prayer. And then when they 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.360 went back and looked at these two patients, they found 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.760 that the group that received prayer and knew they were 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:01.040 receiving prayer fared worse than both to the other groups, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.440 and that actually the group that didn't receive any prayer 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.400 at all fair the best of the three. So if 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.280 you're going and getting a cardiac bypass surgery, you may 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.360 want to say, just just don't pray for me this 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:18.920 time around. Okay. Yeah, And was this a Grabster article? Yeah? Um, 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.800 he points out in what we may get touch on 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.440 this a bit more later, but he points out that 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:28.000 it's just it's really tough to scientifically study intercessory prayer. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.200 And I don't remember if we covered that ten years 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:35.720 ago or not. Um, but it's just, you know, sample 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.319 sizes are tough. Um. The measuring of the health outcome 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.520 like is hard because did they live for a week, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.760 did they live for the rest of their you know, 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.720 what would have been a long long life. Uh. He 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.880 mentions the sharpshooter effect, which is there are so many 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:57.200 potential outcomes that anyone can group something together and say 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:01.360 what we learned this, and then you know who's doing 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.280 the praying, How hard are they praying, how long are 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.000 they praying, what God are they praying to. It's just 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.080 it's tough to study something like that. And if if 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.440 prayer actually does have an impact, if there's a group 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.800 that's a control group that's not being prayed for, how 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.120 do you control for like the friends and family who 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.760 are actually praying for them and interfering in the study. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.320 So there's you know, people have taken this quite seriously. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.440 They studied it seriously, but they've they keep running up 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.000 into these conceptual walls as far as the structure of 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:34.960 the study is concerned, and no one's been able to 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.240 figure it out. But that coronary bypass study was about 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.000 as close as any of them came. But even still, 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:47.280 that one was fraught with methodological methodological problems. So intercessory prayer, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.560 out of all of the types of faith healing, are 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.880 probably the most investigated through science and scientific studies pure 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:58.920 viewed journal studies. The other side of faith healing is 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.040 the kind that probably comes to mind when somebody brings 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.240 up faith healing and that is usually an evangelical preacher 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.720 putting his hands on you and casting out the demons 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:14.439 or casting out the disease, or doing something to where 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:19.560 the power of God is coursing through that person and 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.040 getting rid of your disease or condition or whatever. That's 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.400 the other type of faith healing, and that's the one 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:31.199 that most people think of you. In the last however, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.079 many minutes that was had a great band name, and 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.680 I wonder if you can guess what it was, cast 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.800 the Demons Out? No, that would be the album title 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:51.600 profitbly Lay evangelical Preacher, No no, no conceptual balls. Oh nice, Okay, 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.839 that would be kind of like a Thompson Twins cover band. Uh. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.840 So you said he in the terms of the faith healers, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:03.680 and you generally see this more as a man that 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.480 does this um in my research at least, But there 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.440 was a woman UM in the sixties and seventies it 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.280 was very popular named Catherine Coleman who UM was a 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.640 faith healer. And you know, it looks like she should 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.800 have been on the on he haa or something with her. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.680 This just great lacey long dresses that they were in 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.320 the sixties and seventies. Uh, and in nineteen sixty seven, 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.600 they did a case study and again these are problematic 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.440 but because of sample size, but they studied twenty three 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.680 people that she supposedly healed, um and they found out 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.520 later on that none of them were healed. And in fact, 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.000 one woman, they do this this old trick where they're like, 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:46.560 you know, get out of your wheelchair and walk over 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.920 to me. Uh. And this woman in a wheelchair had 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.600 spinal cancer. She threw off her back brace and ran 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.880 across the stage. Uh. And then they followed up with her. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.559 Her spine collapsed the next day and she died four 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.880 months later. So these mentioning that because all of these 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:09.240 people are when you go to one of these performances, 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.680 everyone thinks that they're healed, and no one here's the 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.040 follow up story that's in that auditorium, right, Yeah, And 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.480 a lot of the success stories are anecdotal for sure, 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.600 with with little or no follow up, and when there 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.319 is follow up, it's usually finds that that's not the case. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.080 But so how about this, chuck, Let's go take a 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.600 commercial and when'll come back, we'll tell we'll tell everybody 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.240 what it would be like to go to a faith 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.880 healing sermon and then after that we'll talk about the 0:12:38.960 --> 0:13:13.200 skeptical view of the whole thing. Alright, so we promised to, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.360 um tell you what it's like to go to one 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.199 of these faith healing Um what do you call them? 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.439 I call them performances. But um, it depends on what 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:23.920 type it is. It could be a service, a sermon, 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:29.199 a revival. Um. Yeah, probably a revival is usually a 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.160 good way to put it, which is also a sermon 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.640 in a service. Uh. One thing you're gonna have in 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.679 your pocket is some cash, money or a checkbook, alright. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.520 Imagine they probably take credit cards these days, because there 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.480 is generally some kind of money changing hands at one 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.600 of these events, whether or not you have paid a 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.880 fee to get in or made a quote unquote donation 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.600 while you were there to get up on stage and 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:03.840 have your your chance to faint in front of thousands 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:09.160 of people. Right. So usually, UM, we'll take Benny Hin 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.000 as an example of what these things can be like. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.199 So Benny Hin is a he's a faith healer. Um, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.160 I'm not sure I believe he's nondenominational. But all of 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.680 this stuff traces back. Actually I didn't realize this. I 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.480 don't know if you did or not. But all evangelical, 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:32.040 charismatic and Pentecostal Christianity actually finds its source in one 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.080 place in nineteen o six called the Azeusus Street Revival. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.840 Have you heard of that? Yeah? And and we should 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.760 point out you said charismatic. Um Ed is quick to 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.120 point out that charismatic religion doesn't mean boy, that that 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.280 person up there preaching shore has a lot of charisma. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:54.400 It's actually a form of Christianity that is rooted in uh, Pentecostalism. Yes, 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.440 that that basically means that they believe that God is 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.680 in the building that day and literally can do things 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.080 in that room. Yep. So there's a lot so and 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.480 this is actually I didn't realize this either until I 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.800 started researching this article. There's a pretty big schism actually 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:15.560 in Christianity today between Pentecostalism, which is a form of 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:23.400 charismatic Christianity, and traditional Christianity. And with Pentecostalism and charismatic Christianity. 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.240 Because you believe that God is in the room, you 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.600 also believe that God can operate through you, and there's 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.480 certain gifts that are available to you. There's the gift 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.640 of knowledge, which is just you just know stuff because 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.200 the Holy Spirit or God is telling you this. There's 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.520 the gift of tongues called gloss alalia, where you suddenly 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.600 start speaking in tongues. We cover that in earnest I 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:46.720 don't think so. Man. If not, we definitely should. We 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.360 did snake handling, which definitely fits a great one charismatic. 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.040 It definitely does. But the basis of charismatic is that 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.720 God is part of your everyday life and can do 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:01.160 things to you, imbue you with divine ours. And one 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.560 of those divine gifts is called the gift of healing. Now, 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.960 not everybody has it, but potentially anybody could have it 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.680 if if you your soul has been baptized anointed to 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:18.520 where you are saved. Plus basically, and that's a big 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.720 theme that you find in charismatic religion is that the 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.440 more somebody speaks in tongues, the more somebody is able 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:29.000 to heal through faith. The more somebody is wealthy, I 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.920 think we need to do a prosperity gospel episode by itself, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.480 but this ties into that as well. The idea of 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.640 all behind all those things is that those people who 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.480 are the wealthiest who speak in tongues, the most who 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.920 can faith heal? Are the are the ones who are 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:50.360 UM who are saved more than other people. That's charismatic religion. 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.360 The other side, the traditional origin religion that you're probably 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.960 familiar with, is like WHOA, the scriptures, the Bible, that 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.520 stuff doesn't talk about any of this, and it does, 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:02.960 it is not in the way that you guys are 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.160 interpreting it. So there's a real there's a collision going 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.000 on in Christianity today between people who say God is 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.119 part of your everyday life and other people say, no, 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.600 God is in scripture and that's where you where you 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.520 find your answers to God, not in you know, Holy 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.240 Laughter or gloss Lalia or anything like that. And so 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:26.280 there's this kind of traditional Christian group in America that 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.880 is losing ground very quickly to charismatic Christians who are 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.119 UM gaining more and more members, and one of the 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.159 ways that they're doing that is through faith healing. Is 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.600 that true? Is it growing? Yeah? Apparently one and every 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.840 four American Christians is a UM Pentecostal. Now interesting, I 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.560 think it's the fastest growing group in America by far. 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.840 So none of this is new. This this all started 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.480 in the nineteenth century. As far as faith healing goes. Uh, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:59.800 people like John Alexander Dowie, Um, people like uh ru 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:06.879 uh Hepapa Tippappetta. So I like the second one more tip. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.640 I'll bet Rule likes it more too. Uh. Frank Sandford 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:17.680 not Fred Sandford, Benson Idahosa. These are all faith healers 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:23.919 who have done everything from said I can he'll like 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.080 raise people from the dead too. I am actually Jesus Christ. 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.040 So it kind of has run the gamut throughout history. 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.320 People like Benny hen and um, who's the other guy, Yeah, 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.280 Peter pop Off are some of the well not they've 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.600 been around for a while too, but they're they're the 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:47.560 the newer version of this nineteenth century um huckster. Yeah. 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.119 And so so as I was starting with the Benny 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.800 Hint thing, that Benny Hints service or revival is about 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.800 twenty four hours long. Man, they maybe actually a little 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.080 longer because I think it can. It's usually of six 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.639 services each about four and a half hours each. Okay, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.520 so we're talking like twenty seven hours of this revival. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.359 And the whole thing is basically stage. You're created or 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.280 carried out in a way that you you're getting more 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.240 and more excited, more and more jazzed, and and from 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.200 the perspective of the believers who are there, the Holy 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:26.399 Spirit is now coming to this place. And you've got 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.640 all this, like all the its appearances going on through 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.000 holy laughter where people are just ecstatically laughing and they 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.720 feel so great, or they're speaking in tongues and they're 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.760 writhing on the floor. The Holy Spirit is present in 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.679 the building. Right and after everybody is good and worked 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.080 up and the Holy Spirit is present, finally Benny Hin 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.200 will come onto the stage and the revival really truly begins. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.280 Then then that's when the healing starts. Yeah, but here's 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.720 the thing. Like growing up in church, like the Holy 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:00.479 Spirit was in the room every Sunday, but it's just 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.600 a different thing with these more um. I guess any 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.760 kind of preaching as some kind of a performance um 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.240 or sermon is. But like in the nineteen twenties is when, 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.359 especially with Amy Simple McPherson, is when these really highly produced, 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.919 dramatic stage shows started to kind of take place. I 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.160 was I was reading about her. It blows my mind 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.359 that she does not have multiple movies made about her. Yeah, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.199 she was extraordinarily interesting and she was based in l 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.600 A too. That means we're really surprised there should be. Uh, 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.480 I'm trying to think of I would cast who should 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.119 I his career? Should I make Jennifer Lawrence would probably 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.160 do a pretty good Amy simple McPherson. You think, yeah, 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.600 I think so. I think she could carry that. All right, Well, 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.920 stay tuned. We'll see if you have the casting powers 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:50.760 as well. What if it turns out to be Hugh 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:57.640 Jackman very brave performance? Um so she Yeah, she really 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.440 got things going in the nineteen twenties and she used 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:07.760 everything from props like ships and and trojan horses to motorcycles. Um, Benny, hen, 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.119 I mean did you watch did you go into too? 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:14.040 A YouTube rabbit hole? With these things like he will 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:19.760 he's one of the most um physically uh say, charismatic, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:21.639 but I don't want to confuse it, but in the 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:25.560 true sense of the word charismatic, physically aggressive and charismatic. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.280 And that he's he's running all over the place, He's 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.840 using his coat, his jacket. Two, he will wave it 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.840 over the crowd and the first twenty rows of people 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.200 will fall back into their seats as if blown by 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.120 back by the spirit. Um. He will you know, put 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.600 his hands on on a guy who will jump up 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.400 and kick his feet out and land on his back. 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.159 He'll get up and he'll do it again. He'll get 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.160 up and he'll do it again. And they have what's 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.200 called catchers on stage, these uh, these kind of big 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.200 men usually who who catch these people and put them 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.280 on the stage, help him back up again, and they're 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.800 all a part of the if you've ever seen well, 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.679 you never saw Fletch one, right, No? I didn't. Was 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.520 there a preacher in Flesh one? No? And Fletch two. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:11.400 I'm waiting for you like, oh, no, I saw the sequel. 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.680 I don't know. I didn't fledged two. That's what the 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:19.280 story was, was what's his face? Arlie Army from Full 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:23.520 Metal Jacket played a faith healer um who was using 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:25.920 I mean, we can go ahead and say it here. 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.560 A lot of these people use tricks like earpieces and 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.080 there's someone off stage reading them cards that people fill 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.080 in and say, Hi, I'm so and so and I 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.600 have this ailment. And then they will put in the 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.119 earpiece and they will say I'm thinking of someone. Uh, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.960 perhaps their name is James or Jim or Jamie and 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.679 they have something wrong with their foot and then all 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.159 of a sudden, the guy who filled out that card says, oh, 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:53.199 you're talking about me. Get him on stage, lay the hands, 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:58.280 and by all accounts, these people are so caught up 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.480 in this religious hysteri area of the moment and the 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.960 drama that sometimes they do faint, right, So this is 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.040 that's I'm glad you brought that up, because I think 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.720 it's really important to get across. Like, the people who 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:15.320 attend these revivals are true believers and they are caught 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:17.520 up in What they would say is they would describe 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.920 all this to the Holy Spirit flowing through them being 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.359 at this revival, being you know, the part of the 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.240 energy in the air. What skeptics would say is, well, 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.200 actually this is all just part of a you know, masssteria, 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.920 mass delusion regardless, it's basically two sides of the same coin. 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:36.600 Whether it's divine or whether it's internal. These people are 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:41.760 experiencing fainting. They are they are falling backwards, and to them, 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.000 they feel like they're just being lifted right off of 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.840 their feet. They are like experiencing this holy laughter or whatever. 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:52.600 They're not they're not faking in in the sense that 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.680 you and I would be like, Oh, these these people 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.800 are faking. They're participating in something that is happening, that's 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.239 connecting them to everybody around them and the people on 0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.360 stage at the very least in the ones that are 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:08.840 the most legitimate. Well yeah, they're they're either that or 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.560 they sometimes they are actual plants. Okay, So so here's 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.040 so there's let me give you three examples. Benny Hin, 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:19.960 Peter pop Off in Hobart Freeman. They represent three different 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.919 versions of faith healers. Benny Hin, his thing is is, 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:25.960 like you're saying, he runs around on stage and waves 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.399 his coat. His thing is he is healing like a 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.400 specific disease. At that moment, he'll be like, I can 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.560 feel the cancer being healed in this room. And then 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:39.919 after that he'll be like, who's felt that? Whose cancer was? 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:42.160 Just He'll come on up here and somebody will run 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:44.040 up and be like, you just here my cancer. Thanks 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:47.280