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Speaker 1: I absolutely know that issues exist, and they are cultural

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Speaker 1: and they are baked into society, but that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: we don't have an obligation to try. That's what I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: That's what we all have to do, and we have

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Speaker 1: to do it together.

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Speaker 2: From Fudromidia and BrX, It's Latino USA. I'm Marieno Rosa

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Speaker 2: today a conversation with Robert Santos, the first Latino to

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Speaker 2: lead the US Census Bureau. President Joe Biden announced last

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Speaker 2: April that his intended nominee to lead the US Census

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Speaker 2: would be Robert Santos. Then just a few weeks later,

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Speaker 2: Santos went before the Senate Homeland Security Committee for his

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Speaker 2: confirmation hearing.

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Speaker 1: It's an honor and I'm humbled to appear before you

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Speaker 1: today as the nominee for the Director of the Census Bureau.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to thank the President and Secretary Rimando for

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Speaker 1: the trust they have placed in me with this nomination.

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Speaker 2: Santos is super proud about being born and raised in

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Speaker 2: the barrios of San Antonio, Texas. He has served as

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Speaker 2: President of the American Statistical Association, vice President and chief

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Speaker 2: methodologist at the Urban Institute, along with other big roles

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Speaker 2: throughout his career. Santos has more than forty years of

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Speaker 2: experience in survey research and he specializes in quantitative and

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Speaker 2: qualitative research design.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be here today without the enduring support of

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Speaker 1: my family. At age eighteen, I married my wife, Adela,

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Speaker 1: and we've now been married forty eight years. She's my

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Speaker 1: most important source of support, counsel and love. Our two children,

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Speaker 1: Emilio and Clarissa, always support me and are constant sources

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Speaker 1: of comfort and pride.

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Speaker 2: During his confirmation hearing, Santos was asked about redistrict along

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Speaker 2: with potential big challenges for the upcoming twenty thirty Census.

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Speaker 2: Santos was confirmed in November of twenty twenty one. A

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Speaker 2: few months later and January of this year, he was

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Speaker 2: sworn in as the twenty sixth director of the US Census,

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Speaker 2: and he is the first Latino to hold that position.

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Speaker 3: Hi Robert Santos, I Robert Sambo, will support in the

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Speaker 3: will support in thefan.

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Speaker 2: Santos is no stranger to the US Census. Before his

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Speaker 2: nomination and confirmation, he warned in October of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: that former President Trump's interference with the census count could

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Speaker 2: result in one of the most flawed census counts in history.

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Speaker 2: Census counts are important because they helped determine the number

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Speaker 2: of seats each state has in the US House of Representatives.

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Speaker 2: It's also used to help allocate and distribute billions of

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Speaker 2: federal dollars across local communities throughout the entire country. Trump

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Speaker 2: wanted a question on the past census that asked for

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Speaker 2: people's US citizenship status.

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Speaker 4: Well, you need it for many reasons.

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Speaker 3: Number One, you needed with Congress, you needed for Congress,

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Speaker 3: for despriting, you needed for appropriations. Citizenship has been on

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Speaker 3: that thing most of the time for many, many years.

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Speaker 2: A citizenship question had not been on the census for

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Speaker 2: several decades, and of course, citizenship status is not used

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Speaker 2: for redistricting. And after several lawsuits, the Supreme Court ultimately

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Speaker 2: blocked the citizenship question from being on the twenty twenty census,

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Speaker 2: but the damage had already been done and there was

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Speaker 2: an even further gap in trust with communities across the

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Speaker 2: United States. The weaponization of the US census isn't something new.

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Speaker 2: We've seen it with the founding of this country, when

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Speaker 2: enslaved Africans were counted as three fifths of a person

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Speaker 2: and later when Japanese Americans were in prison and tracked

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Speaker 2: down by using the senses. So on today's episode, I

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Speaker 2: have a conversation with director Robert Santos about his new role,

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Speaker 2: his love for his hometown of San Antonio, and the

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Speaker 2: complicated history of the US Censes. Director Robert Santos, Hello,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much for being with me here

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Speaker 2: today on Latino USA.

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Speaker 1: I was ready to climb a ladder and do the

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Speaker 1: interview upside down if I could have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: be a part of this experience with you, because I've

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Speaker 1: always valued everything that you've done on your program.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, well, thank you. I don't I am

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Speaker 2: actually I'm having a moment. Did the director of the

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Speaker 2: US Census just say to me that he values the

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Speaker 2: work that I've been doing and knows my work? I

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Speaker 2: really am having a moment.

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Speaker 1: Every week we listen to your program and the job

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Speaker 1: you're doing to help the United States understand the value

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Speaker 1: of our rich diversity of Latinos, I think is amazing.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Director Santos for being for being a supporter

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Speaker 2: of our work and knowing our work. It really means

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Speaker 2: a lot. And I think I'm going to start there

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Speaker 2: because if I think about my experience as a Latina

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Speaker 2: in the media over the last thirty years, I think

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Speaker 2: that people always saw me kind of like, you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: here she goes again bringing up Latinos and Latinas, and

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Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I'm not a big mathematician or

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Speaker 2: a statistician like you, but I can read a demographic

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Speaker 2: chart and I could see that the Latino population was

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Speaker 2: just increasing.

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Speaker 4: And so for a lot of my career, people have kind.

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Speaker 2: Of been like, oh God, here she comes talking about

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Speaker 2: Latinos again. I always found it very interesting that people

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Speaker 2: felt like it was a bother or a like a

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Speaker 2: threat or a problem instead of just like, no, but

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Speaker 2: we're just kind of looking at that, And I'm wondering

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Speaker 2: if you're kind of having that same sensation in your

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Speaker 2: life right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for offering that perspective, because actually, I've

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Speaker 1: been having that type of interaction my entire career. I've

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Speaker 1: had episode after episode where I was the sole Latino

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Speaker 1: in a room of research decision makers who maybe hadn't

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Speaker 1: realized that when they come to the table and they

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Speaker 1: frame research questions, or they perceive problems that they want

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Speaker 1: to help society solve, they do it with their cultural lens.

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Speaker 1: I've had many instances where I basically say, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: if you do that, you actually will be doing harm

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Speaker 1: and not good. Even though the statistical design and the

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Speaker 1: research design was pristine. However, if you frame the question

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Speaker 1: the wrong way, or you capture information in a way

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Speaker 1: that doesn't really reveal what's going on, or interpret it

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Speaker 1: by talking to people in the community to help get

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Speaker 1: it better understanding, you can end up actually doing more

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Speaker 1: harm than good.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing I need to know, Director Santos,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I just need to know. I know you

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Speaker 2: used to have a ponytail. Do you still it's growing hotly.

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Speaker 1: I was asked to be considered for the nomination and

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Speaker 1: I decided to do it. I did it out of

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Speaker 1: you know, Goda son. I wanted to help my country,

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Speaker 1: and I believed I could offer something as a Latino

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Speaker 1: from my rich perspective, cultural perspective and research perspective. But

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Speaker 1: the one thing that I decided is that I have

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Speaker 1: to be myself, and myself is Santos with a ponytail.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm going to be myself and try to

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Speaker 1: do the best I can to help the Census Bureau

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Speaker 1: to help the American people. And if it works, great,

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Speaker 1: and if it doesn't, I tried.

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Speaker 4: I think it's really cool.

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Speaker 2: I just want to say, because when you're rocking it,

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Speaker 2: it works. And two, I just think you're saying something

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Speaker 2: about just having to be yourself.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: So recently I was in San Antonio. That's the city

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Speaker 2: of where you were born and raised. I was at

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Speaker 2: Trinity University giving a lecture, and you know, I love

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Speaker 2: San Antonio. It's one of my favorite cities because what

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Speaker 2: I've been going to it ever since a little girl,

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Speaker 2: because I was always driving through Texas to get from

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Speaker 2: Chicago to Mexico. It's a majority Latino city in the

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Speaker 2: United States, in the state of Texas. So yeah, not

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Speaker 2: as a kid from San Antonio, but as somebody who

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Speaker 2: understands the power of the work of the Census and

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Speaker 2: demography and the picture of the future of the United States.

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Speaker 2: I mean, is San Antonio in fact the future of

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Speaker 2: what the United States looks like? And what does that

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Speaker 2: mean to you?

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Speaker 1: Well, there are many really interesting things about San Antonio.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it has always had a very prominent

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Speaker 1: place for Mexican Americans in particular, but Latinos more generally

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Speaker 1: as being part of the city. Yet when I was

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Speaker 1: growing up, it was pretty effectively segregated, and even in

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Speaker 1: some of the Latino communities. You know, I lived on

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Speaker 1: the side of the Woodland Lake that you know, wasn't

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Speaker 1: considered the best part, and so if I went into

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Speaker 1: the other side where there were folks were better off,

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Speaker 1: I might be looked upon a little differently. But it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that we've embraced the culture of the Mexican American

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Speaker 1: community in San Antonio.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the reason why one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons why I keep on asking about San Antonio as

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Speaker 2: a city of the future and what it looks like.

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Speaker 4: And you're right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you get out of the airport in San Antonio,

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Speaker 2: because I was just there and there were these like

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Speaker 2: huge artists representations of LATAs, the Chipotle Chiles, Chipotle salsa ervees,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, only in San Antonio will you

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Speaker 2: see this? Like at the airport it's and and all

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Speaker 2: of this is like we're talking about San Antonio, and

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Speaker 2: you know, as it relates to a kind of city

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Speaker 2: of the future, with a kind of sense of joy

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Speaker 2: and hope and laughter. But you know this, Director Santos,

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Speaker 2: that actually the way the narrative goes right now in

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Speaker 2: the United States today is that Latinos and Latinas pose

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Speaker 2: some kind of a threat, that we're majority not from

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Speaker 2: the United States, that we're coming here, that we're new.

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Speaker 4: So put those two things together for.

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Speaker 1: Me, Well, it's not unusual for societies to have segments

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Speaker 1: of the population that view individuals of different backgrounds to

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Speaker 1: be threats, when in fact it's very much of an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: We could not survive without immigrants coming in and helping

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Speaker 1: our economy in ways that otherwise the citizen population would

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Speaker 1: not be able to contribute. So I very much value

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Speaker 1: the diversity, and I think that's one of our strongest

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Speaker 1: points as a nation. And that's why I take so

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Speaker 1: much pride in being able to advance the measurement and

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Speaker 1: the accounting and the learning about the rich diversity of

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Speaker 1: our population and how it's getting more diverse. It's inevitable,

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Speaker 1: as you said, it's coming, and we need to find

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Speaker 1: better ways to leverage and embrace that because it's going

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Speaker 1: to improve society. But I bring a different perspective. I

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Speaker 1: think to research and the Census Bureau and sort of

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Speaker 1: research more generally social science research, and I believe that

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Speaker 1: you have to bring your whole self. So I believe

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Speaker 1: in diversity, equity, inclusion, and I think in order to

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Speaker 1: be a better scientist, a better mathematician, a better statistician,

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Speaker 1: you need to bring your culture to the table when

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Speaker 1: you talk about and think about research, about interpreting results,

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Speaker 1: about how you analyze it, even how you frame what

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Speaker 1: it is that you're going to look at, because that

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Speaker 1: way you can actually learn more and gain more relevant

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Speaker 1: insights into particular problems, whether it's hunger or housing, or

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Speaker 1: the pandemic and vaccination statuses or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so, Director Santos, I actually want to take you

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Speaker 2: back to those days when you were growing up as

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Speaker 2: a kid in San Antonio. You were on the west

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Speaker 2: side of the city. You said it was a very

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Speaker 2: segregated city, and so you growing up. What was life

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Speaker 2: like back then as a kid. Were you like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're definitely the majority. We got this, We're going places,

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Speaker 2: or did you feel like, wow, this country's in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a civil rights era. Latinos and Latinas were

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Speaker 2: not necessarily visible.

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Speaker 4: So what was it to.

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Speaker 1: Be honest, I was a kid in the sixties. I

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Speaker 1: was in elementary school and middle school, and I graduated

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Speaker 1: in seventy two, and so I didn't I wasn't able

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Speaker 1: until I was maybe in grad school at Michigan to

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Speaker 1: really connect the dots fully, to realize the value and

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Speaker 1: importance of being a Latino. And that's where between my

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Speaker 1: college and graduate school years where I really embraced and

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Speaker 1: understood the magnitude of the societal issues that we were

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Speaker 1: dealing with. But back when I was a kid, I

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Speaker 1: was basically surviving. I was fortunate enough to go to

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Speaker 1: parochial school for twelve years. That instilled some great values

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Speaker 1: in me that I take with me and I use

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Speaker 1: every day of my forty year career as well as

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Speaker 1: now my continuing career at the Census Bureau. And those

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Speaker 1: values of trying to help people, those values of being

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Speaker 1: inclusive and treating people fairly and trying to help society,

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Speaker 1: those are really important and they drive me and they've

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Speaker 1: drive everything that I've done, you know, treating people with

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Speaker 1: respect regardless of race, color, creed, religion, or whatever.

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Speaker 4: So your mom and dad worked at the Air Force Base.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there were some very fortunate to have civil service

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Speaker 1: positions at Kelly Air Force Base while it was open.

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Speaker 2: So this notion of I see you as my equal,

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Speaker 2: a child of the civil rights era? Where was that

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Speaker 2: coming from? Was that your mom and dad bringing it home?

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Speaker 2: And talk to me a little bit about having a

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Speaker 2: mom and dad in the Air Force, because, I mean,

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Speaker 2: my dad was a scientist, medical doctor, researcher. But we

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Speaker 2: didn't talk that stuff over dinner. But like your dad

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Speaker 2: was asking you math questions, So take me a little

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Speaker 2: bit back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. We had a really tightly knit family

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Speaker 1: and everything circulated around familiar and because everything revolved around family,

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Speaker 1: our focus was we didn't necessarily at the dinner table

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Speaker 1: talk about the inequities of society as much as talked

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Speaker 1: about familia and how we help each other and how

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Speaker 1: we need to strive to get better education and get

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Speaker 1: good jobs. I mean, that was what it was all about.

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Speaker 1: And you know, how could anyone blame familias for talking

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Speaker 1: about that? In San Antonio who were Mexican American and

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Speaker 1: whose grandparents had fled because of the revolution, the violence

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Speaker 1: in northern Mexico that was going on to survive, and

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Speaker 1: they started in new life and with almost nothing, and

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Speaker 1: my grandparents starting with jobs as gardeners or as cleaning people.

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Speaker 1: We then grew and generation after generation improved and that

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Speaker 1: pursuit of the American dream, that's really what was the

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Speaker 1: focus of discussion. And me as a little kid with

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Speaker 1: my brother who's no longer with us, our focus was

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Speaker 1: on trying to have as good of a time as

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Speaker 1: we could, especially with my parents both being off to

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Speaker 1: work in us being latchkey kids, so we got into

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Speaker 1: all kinds of mischief.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I need to know what mischief looks like

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Speaker 2: in West San Antonio.

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Speaker 4: Then give me a couple of examples. What were you

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Speaker 4: guys doing.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was mischief in the sense of, you know,

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Speaker 1: we'd have you know, mudball fights in San Antonio where

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Speaker 1: the back of the house was yeah, mudball. We just

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Speaker 1: you know, throw water in the dirt, make mudballs and

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Speaker 1: come at it and the back of the house would

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Speaker 1: be covered with mudballs that stuck to the side of

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Speaker 1: the house. Or we'd grab our bicycles and we were

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Speaker 1: like what a nine ten years old now, I'd say ten,

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Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, and then head off from Woodlawn Lake

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Speaker 1: area to pass downtown to Hemisphere where it was being built,

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Speaker 1: so we could watch the tower going up the wow

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Speaker 1: or go out to the airport and watch the jets

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Speaker 1: come in. And that's really long distances for kids in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the summer with no water. We just

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Speaker 1: stop at gas stations, but we would do crazy, crazy

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Speaker 1: stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of incredible that kids get into all that

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Speaker 2: mischief and survive, right, It's kind of amazing.

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Speaker 1: What's really important, though, is if you combine that sense

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Speaker 1: of adventure with the values that were instilled during the

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Speaker 1: schooling that I had, it's those two things that have

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Speaker 1: propelled me to take chances and risks where maybe other

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Speaker 1: folks would not have done it. So pretty much in

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Speaker 1: every job I've ever taken, it's been a step up,

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Speaker 1: and I've said, oh my god, can I Am I really.

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Speaker 4: Going to be able to do this?

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Speaker 1: And then I'd end up saying, well, look, just like

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Speaker 1: I told you earlier, I'm going to try my best.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be myself and if I if I

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Speaker 1: can contribute, great, and if I can't, I'll be able

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Speaker 1: to look myself in the mirror and say I try my.

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Speaker 4: Best coming up on LEATINGO USA.

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Speaker 2: Director Santos on rebuilding trust and facing the systemic problems

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Speaker 2: at the Census.

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Speaker 4: Stay with us, Yes, Hey, we're back.

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Speaker 2: We're going to continue now with my conversation with Director

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Speaker 2: of the US Census Bureau Robert Santos. The interesting thing,

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Speaker 2: Director Santos, is that I have a lot of feelings

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Speaker 2: about the senses. With the senses, it's actually something that

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Speaker 2: has had an impact in my life in very interesting ways.

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Speaker 2: And I kind of be honest with you, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you're not going to be surprised when I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a love hate relationtionship with the Census.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 2: I remember as a little girl that Hispanic was a

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Speaker 2: term that was created for the Census by a Republican administration,

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Speaker 2: and my family did not like the Republicans. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm not Hispanic, I'm not a term that

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Speaker 2: was created. So the Census has this kind of again

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Speaker 2: this impact. In fact, in twenty ten, when I form

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Speaker 2: Futuro Media, my own company, one of the things that

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Speaker 2: made me believe that I could do it was data

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Speaker 2: from the Census.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: The data was that the Latino population growth from twenty

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Speaker 2: to twenty ten had grown at forty three percent. So

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Speaker 2: the Census is an organization that we I think you

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Speaker 2: too have had a love hate relationship with.

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Speaker 4: Am I right?

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Speaker 2: How do you see how the Census has impacted your

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Speaker 2: personal life? Were you that guy who was like thinking

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Speaker 2: about the Census like decades.

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Speaker 1: Ago, actually decades ago? I was because I actually did

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Speaker 1: projects for the Census A as a researcher. I served

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Speaker 1: for six years on the advisory committee and said the

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Speaker 1: same thing day one as I did six years later

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Speaker 1: as I walked out the door in terms of advice.

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Speaker 1: But I actually have not had a love hate relationship.

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Speaker 1: I've had a love love relationship with the Census my

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Speaker 1: entire career because I recognize.

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Speaker 4: Love love like I mean, you've been critical of it, though.

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Speaker 1: Right, because I love the Census Bureau.

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Speaker 2: Are you, like really that person who's like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I've always loved this.

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Speaker 4: Are you that person?

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Speaker 1: I am in the sense that I want it and

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Speaker 1: we need it to improve and to be the best

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Speaker 1: that it is. It's been, It's done some exceptionally great

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Speaker 1: stuff in the past. All statistics have strengths and limitations.

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Speaker 1: The limitation for desennial Census historically have been ones where

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Speaker 1: people of color are undercounted. That's an issue I've been

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Speaker 1: critical before the Census, and now that i'm director, we're

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Speaker 1: looking at that. And it's not like they don't look

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Speaker 1: at it every day of our lives. We have experts

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Speaker 1: who are trying their best to think of new, creative

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Speaker 1: ways to help with participation, et cetera. But I recognize

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Speaker 1: that the data that the census provides is a vital

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Speaker 1: part of our democracy. We can't improve communities, neighborhoods, we

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Speaker 1: can't identify problems unless we can measure properly that the

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Speaker 1: state of the nation who we are as a people.

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Speaker 1: And it's in that context that I've always loved the

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Speaker 1: Census Bureau because I admire them doing the best that

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Speaker 1: can be done, even though it's not perfection.

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Speaker 4: Because I mean, that's what I was going to say.

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Speaker 2: So is it that you've been up at night not

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Speaker 2: now just because you're the director of the Census, but

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Speaker 2: that in the past because the undercounting of in particular

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Speaker 2: Latino Latina LATINX community and frankly, and I know this

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Speaker 2: is not a surprise to you, there's deep distrust now

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Speaker 2: with any government institution in the United States. I mean,

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Speaker 2: are those things that have kept you up at night?

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Speaker 2: This whole notion of like the deep, deep undercounting that

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Speaker 2: comes from one I suppose deep disorganization, but also deep distrust.

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Speaker 1: I'm not prepared to say it keeps me up at night,

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Speaker 1: as much as it's a core issue that we need

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Speaker 1: to address for the future, we need to recognize its existence.

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Speaker 1: There are mistrust issues that have been historical as well

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Speaker 1: as more recent, and I would never have taken job

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Speaker 1: unless I thought I could help in that regard. So

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Speaker 1: one of the primary agenda items for me, or contributions

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Speaker 1: that I want to make as Director of the Census

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Speaker 1: Bureau is to put a human face on the Census Bureau.

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Speaker 1: We're not a bunch of mathematicians in our little offices

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Speaker 1: thinking big thoughts. We're actually human beings.

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Speaker 4: We all have.

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Speaker 1: Cultures, we all have issues, we all are human in nature.

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Speaker 1: And I'm bringing that because I think I can. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to outreach to communities, to neighborhoods, to stakeholders, to congress,

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Speaker 1: to local governments, to tribal communities. I want to get

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Speaker 1: out there and I want to find out what those

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Speaker 1: issues are with my staff.

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Speaker 4: So the Census.

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Speaker 1: SPIRO will be a part of all of that and

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Speaker 1: establish a continuous relationship with people and with communities, rather

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Speaker 1: than simply two years before a census saying, Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: time for us to have partnerships. We recognize that we

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Speaker 1: need to have this continuously, and I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: upfront and center trying to work with everyone to establish

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Speaker 1: a true two way relationship, not just to help us

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Speaker 1: get participation, but also here is information that's useful for

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Speaker 1: your specific community. Here are some tools you can use

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Speaker 1: to identify community needs, to solve problems, to create more

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Speaker 1: economic development. That's the type of two way relationship that

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Speaker 1: I really want.

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Speaker 4: To get, Director Santos.

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Speaker 2: The last administration and all of the controversy leading up

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Speaker 2: to the twenty twenty senses has, I mean, it's so polarized,

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Speaker 2: and it forced people more into a place of darkness,

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Speaker 2: I suppose in regards to the Senses. So I mean

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Speaker 2: you're trying to kind of I don't want to say

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Speaker 2: catch up, because you're actually trying to do something very future.

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Speaker 2: But you've got a lot of lead from the last

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Speaker 2: administration in the last decades. I mean that lead is

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Speaker 2: how do you deal with that lead that is weighing

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Speaker 2: you down, which is part historical and you know, systemic.

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Speaker 1: I do not view this as an issue of oh

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Speaker 1: my god, look what's happened in the past. I view

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Speaker 1: it as where do we need to get into the

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Speaker 1: future and how do we need to address these types

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Speaker 1: of issues. So I'm I'm looking forward because one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest attributes and strengths of the Census Bureau is

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Speaker 1: that it is a non partisan federal statistical agency. So

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Speaker 1: I'll say it again, it's a non partisan federal statistical agency,

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Speaker 1: which is the only reason that I was willing to join.

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Speaker 1: Because the notion of scientific integrity, objectivity is something and

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Speaker 1: transparency not many organizations want to reveal, like the good

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Speaker 1: and the bad and the ugly about everything we do.

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Speaker 1: We put that up front because that's part of our

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Speaker 1: job that the American people deserve to hear and to

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Speaker 1: see the strengths and limitations of all of our data products.

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Speaker 1: And it's because of that scientific integrity and our non

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Speaker 1: powers in nature that I think we have a really

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Speaker 1: good starting point to take wherever we are right now

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Speaker 1: and move forward and create really great ties to communities

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Speaker 1: and great things, and that's what I'm going to be doing,

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Speaker 1: and I know that that's what the rest of the

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Speaker 1: sense of spirit is going to be doing as well.

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Speaker 2: Your excitement about being at the Census is clear, like

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Speaker 2: we can feel it.

441
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 4: We absolutely can feel it. I can see it.

442
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: So I want to zoom out for a bit, because

443
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: when I think about the senses, I think the other

444
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: word that comes to mind is white supremacy and systemic

445
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: racism and how that is a part of the institution.

446
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: We have to acknowledge how people in this country were

447
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: first counted right, Enslaved black people were basic counted only

448
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: as three fifths of a human being, and areas with

449
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: large enslaved populations benefited from this in terms of federal

450
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: funding and political power and representation. So again, your excitement

451
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: to be at the Census, But the question I'm going

452
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: to ask you is, well, should the Census be dismantled,

453
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: should it be reassembled? How do we deal with the

454
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 2: fact that, you know, close to four out of the

455
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: five senior executives at the Bureau identify as white, according

456
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: to an NPR study from last year. So you're dealing

457
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: with your big dreams and a powerful institution, but one

458
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: that has, in this case issues of white supremacy.

459
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Well, I think that, you know, pundits and others can

460
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: characterize the Census Bureau as they might. I do know

461
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: that because of things like the pandemic, we are at

462
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: a wonderful inflection point where we understand the value of

463
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: diverse city equity and inclusion, and everyone I've spoken to

464
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: wants to make progress in this regard, including myself. I

465
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: think that it would be naive to think that any

466
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: government or any society does not have issues with them

467
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: with regard to historical racism and things of that sort.

468
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: But in terms of where we go from now, by

469
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: leveraging this diversity, equity and inclusion principles, we are recognizing

470
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: the value not only for creating a more diverse workforce

471
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: within the Census Bureau, but also questioning every single thing

472
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 1: we do with regard to what we measure, how we

473
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: measure it, how relevant it is, and not only that

474
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: when we produce it, how valuable it is based on

475
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: community engagement and getting folks reaction to results and things

476
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: of that sort. So I'm very much you know, I

477
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: am absolutely not a Pollyanna. I absolutely know that issues

478
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: exist and they are cultural and they are baked into society.

479
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean we cannot don't have an obligation

480
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: to try. That's what I'm doing, That's what we all

481
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: have to do, and we have to do it together

482
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: and we need each other's support.

483
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: Director Santos forgive me that I should know the answer

484
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: to this question, but I don't. Has the census apologized

485
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: for the fact that the data from the census was

486
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: used to enter, i e. Imprison American citizens of Japanese

487
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: descent and that they were targeted because of the use

488
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: of the census data. Has there been a formal apology

489
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: that I just didn't know about.

490
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you for asking. That's a really

491
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: really important question. Can prove it Actually years back, apologized

492
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: formally to representatives of the Japanese community.

493
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: So how do we because you know this as well

494
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: in our community, especially after the last administration, the previous

495
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: administration in particular Latinos and Latinas and building this trust

496
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 2: and immigrants and refugees, undocumented people, how do you rebuild

497
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: the trust? And I know I get the whole like

498
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: we are the census, we are you, But I mean

499
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: you also deal with hard facts. You also want to

500
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: deal with the humanizing of it. How do you create

501
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: trust in an institution that is so large and that

502
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: has this past history And I know you want to

503
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: look at the future. So in the future, how do

504
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: you want to create.

505
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: And we are already taking steps in that direction. It

506
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: is critical that we engage with the public with we

507
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: engage in local communities. We engage with people of color

508
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: and communities of color in their various manifestations, whether it's

509
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: through with non Leo or maldef or the Asian American

510
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: associations that look out for those interests. It's really important

511
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: to have those types of conversations that are continuous, and

512
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: it's through having those conversations and demonstrating that their concerns

513
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: matter by incorporating those into actions we take in the future.

514
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: Through that loop and through us demonstrating with hard data

515
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: that we can we can help their communities and all communities,

516
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: I think we will build build trust.

517
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,239
Speaker 2: And what are we going to do or what are

518
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 2: you going to do with the fact that there's an

519
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: acknowledgment of a pretty severe undercount that happened, particularly in black, Latino,

520
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: Latin and LATINX communities. What's your plan you again, if

521
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: you're like, well, we can't deal with what happened in

522
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: the past, that's already happened. But then what is the plan,

523
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: like a very specific plan.

524
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: Yes, and we're in the midst of forming plans for

525
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: the twenty thirty census, but please be aware that the

526
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: plans for increasing participation and representation in the data collections

527
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: that we do are spread to all of the one

528
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty or so surveys that we do every year,

529
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: as well as our economic censuses that are coming up.

530
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: And Latinos and African Americans have local businesses and such,

531
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 1: so we're looking to to do that.

532
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: So again, I love the fact that I have these

533
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: very specific reactions about the Census when every year, every decade,

534
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: you know, when I have to deal with this. But

535
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: the term Hispanic, the term Latino, Latina, LATINX, you know,

536
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: Afro Latiniva, indigenous cells. I mean, I every time I

537
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: look at the Census, I'm like, but I'm not here.

538
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: I don't feel I like, I don't the boxes, which box,

539
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: checking of the box. I'm sure you felt this way too,

540
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: So what's your plan to kind of make the senses

541
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: like read the room, understand the United States and it's

542
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: actually living in because it feels like it's the senses

543
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: again of the white men from the nineteen fifties that

544
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: were kind of creating the paradigms, and the paradigms have

545
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: all shifted.

546
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: That is a wonderful starting point for this notion that

547
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: society has tangibly changed over the last twenty thirty forty years,

548
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: where people are understanding and embracing different cultures and ancestries,

549
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: and an organization like the Census Bureau and more broadly,

550
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: the federal statistical system, because there's lots of other groups

551
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: in the federal government that collect data, need to understand

552
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: and be contemporary with the way that people identify themselves

553
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: and our notions of who we are, especially with multi

554
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: race couples and children and multi ethnic couples and children.

555
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: People are just becoming more aware of who they are,

556
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: and when they do that, they think of themselves differently,

557
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: and so using standards like the ones we currently have

558
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: that we're developed in nineteen ninety seven aren't necessarily the

559
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: best ones to capture the rich diversity of our wonderful population.

560
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: Right now, we are at the Census Bureau don't have

561
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: the authority to simply change race ethnicity questions. It needs

562
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: to go through a process by the federal government to

563
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: update the standards, and we are actively working with the

564
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: Office of Management and Budget, which is part of the

565
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: White House. They're the group that creates and revises standards,

566
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: and our understanding is that that process with regard to

567
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: ethnicity as well as with regard to SOJII questions, sexual

568
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: orientation and gender identity, well, those discussions will become soon

569
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: and we have existing research that we've already done as

570
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: well as ideas on how to go forward to better

571
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: capture that rich diversity and the disaggregation of Latinos, disaggregation

572
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: of whites, disaggregation African Americans, Asians, tribal communities, and so forth.

573
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: I remember when I started hearing that term disaggregation, So

574
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 2: just so people get it, can you just define what

575
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: disaggregation means, because I think while you're the head of

576
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 2: the census, people will be hearing that murd a lot more.

577
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, forgive me, I like to pride myself as being

578
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: someone who can speak more.

579
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 5: To the public.

580
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: But then I throw out, I bust out the term

581
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: disaggregation and Oh, it's obviously it's a it's an industry term.

582
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: Disaggregation really is very basic. Latinos are not a monolithic population.

583
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: We're luck together as a group of different groups of

584
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: a set of peoples. They're Kubanos, you know, folks from

585
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: Dominican Mexicans, even you know, Central and South America and

586
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: so forth in Puerto Ricans. And it's important to be

587
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: able to understand those differences because different communities can have

588
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: different mixes of a specific type of Latino. Not to mention,

589
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: you bring in immigrant status as well, and that will

590
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: trigger notions of what types of community needs there are.

591
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: How to better address issues like, you know, how do

592
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: we convince folks to take vaccines, how do we get

593
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: folks to register to vote? How do we get folks

594
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: to understand the value of fruits and vegetables for a

595
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: more nutritious meal, even though they may not have a

596
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: Liverpool wage to you know, to buy those types of products.

597
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: So we really need to understand the rich diversity, and

598
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: that's what desegregation means.

599
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: I think part of what you're trying to do is,

600
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: as you say, you want you and your whole staff

601
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 2: to bring their entire selves into the Census Bureau because

602
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: that ultimately will lead to a better Census Bureau. You

603
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: have actually and you talk a lot about equity and inclusion,

604
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: and you've actually taken some steps. So what are you

605
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: doing in terms of your own staff and that diversity

606
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: representation and inclusion.

607
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: Well, on the staff that I work with directly, there

608
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: is actually a incredibly rich diversity of Latinos, of African Americans,

609
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: of white individuals from different backgrounds. We have efforts to

610
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: transform and modernize the Census Bureau because we absolutely need

611
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: it in order to survive in the future. And part

612
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: of that is making sure that we do things like

613
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: review all of our policies and practices for two things.

614
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: One is to make sure they are equitable, and my

615
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: guess is that most, if not all, will end up

616
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: being equitable. We've got to do our due diligence. And

617
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: the second is the practice. It's policies and practice. You

618
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: can have an equitable policy, but if it's not implemented

619
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: in the right way, you may as well not have

620
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: the policy. You know, all together, we're also looking in

621
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: a very honed way at assembling data from different sources

622
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: in ways that can facilitate a better understanding of community

623
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: from an equity lens.

624
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: All right, well, you've been able to tell us a

625
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 2: lot about you know, kind of your work right now,

626
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: but we do know that you'll there will be a

627
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: finite period of time in which you serve as the

628
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 2: director of the Senses. And I can tell, with all

629
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: due respect that you're a little bit of a nerd.

630
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 4: Am I right? Yes, I confess.

631
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: So what do you want the legacy? Your legacy? You're

632
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: the first Latino to lead the Senses. You're the first

633
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: man with a bonytail that we know of in the

634
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: modern ages.

635
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 4: So what do you want your legacy to be?

636
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: It's interesting people keep asking me that, and I keep

637
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: telling them I am not that type of leader, don't.

638
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: I don't want to leave the Census Bureau? And folks say, well,

639
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: Rob did X, Rob did Y, and Rob did C.

640
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: I would much rather because of who I am and

641
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: my belief in how I lead to enable all kinds

642
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: of staff to do great things, and then to help

643
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: them find the resources, to be innovative, to tangibly demonstrate

644
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: what it means to live in an equitable work environment.

645
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: So my legacy, if you look at it from the

646
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: in that sense, isn't going to be an accomplishment as

647
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: much as a driver to allow people to become excellent

648
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: in the context of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And that's

649
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: what my legacy. I want my legacy to be. I

650
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: helped people do their job better well.

651
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 4: Director Robert Roberto Santos, thank you so much for joining

652
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 4: me on Let You Know USA.

653
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: It was an absolute honor, Maria, and thank you very

654
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: much for this opportunity to let folks know who I am.

655
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: Since my conversation with Director Santos, the White House Office

656
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: of Management and Budget announced that it has started a

657
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: formal review in order to revise the race and Ethnicity classifications.

658
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: It uses these to collect data across federal agencies to

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Speaker 2: quote better reflect the diversity of the American people end quote.

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Speaker 2: These classifications have not been revised since nine Team ninety seven.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior and edited by.

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Speaker 4: Julio Ricardo Barella.

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Speaker 2: It was mixed by Stefane Lebau and Julia Caruso. The

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Speaker 2: Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Grusado, Marta Martinez, Daisy Contreres,

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Speaker 2: Mike Sergent, Julieta Martinelli, Victoriestrera, Alejandra Sarrassa, Patricia Sulvan and

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00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: Julia Rocha, with help from Raoul Pees. Our associate engineers

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00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: are gabriel A. Bias and JJ Carubin. Our marketing manager

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00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: is Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Zane Rubinos.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host and executive producer Mario Josa joins again

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Speaker 2: on our next episode, and remember not tevayas and I'll

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Speaker 2: see you on all of our social media aste.

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Speaker 5: La Proxima Joe Latino USA is made possible in part

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00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 5: by W. K. Kellogg Foundation, a partner with communities where

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00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 5: children come first, the Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking Knowledge, opportunity

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Speaker 5: and possibilities more at hsfoundation dot org and the John D.

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00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 5: And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, I hear you're a big griller

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Speaker 2: and you love to barbecue, and I'm like, okay, I

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Speaker 2: want to be invited to that barbecue, Director Santos, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's the barbecue I want to be invited to. Yours

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Speaker 2: your open invitation, Jean san Antonio barbecue.

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Speaker 4: But anyway,