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Speaker 1: And so a lot of times you run into obstacles

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Speaker 1: when people don't have the vision for themselves. They don't

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Speaker 1: have that vision for you, they will criticize you or

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Speaker 1: they will become even an obstacle. So I went out

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Speaker 1: when Arch brought us this international thing. Is now being

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Speaker 1: prepared for the moment, For the moment.

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Speaker 2: What if I told you there was more to the

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Speaker 2: story behind game changing events. Get ready for my new podcast,

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Speaker 2: That Moment with Damon John will jump into the personal

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Speaker 2: stories of some of the most influential people on the planet,

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Speaker 2: from business mobiles and celebrities to athletes and artists. One

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Speaker 2: thing about me that will never change is I love

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Speaker 2: a couple of movies that I will watch ten times

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Speaker 2: a year. And come into America is one of those movies,

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Speaker 2: and I am excited to interview an actor that a

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Speaker 2: lot of us know is breaking out on that role.

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Speaker 2: But that role is probably one percent of what this

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Speaker 2: man has accomplished. Eric Lasal Eric was not just a

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Speaker 2: character in that movie, but he won awards for his

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Speaker 2: roles as doctor Peter Benton and er. Broadway performers start

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Speaker 2: alongside of people such as Robin Williams, Hugh Jackman, and

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Speaker 2: logan and many many more. But besides being an actor,

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Speaker 2: Eric found success in being a director many of you

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Speaker 2: may not know that, and a producer and a writer. HBO, Showtime, Netflix, Amazon, Prime, ABC, NBC, Fox,

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Speaker 2: and other major entertainment companies have utilized his talent, whether

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Speaker 2: in front of the camera but also in back of

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Speaker 2: the camera, and of course your favorite shows like Chicago

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Speaker 2: PD and Law and Order. Now, most recently, Eric has

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Speaker 2: released his latest book, Laws of Annihilation. Now, this is

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Speaker 2: the third installment on his Martyr Maaker crime series. And

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Speaker 2: some people say, if you're a jack of all trades,

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Speaker 2: you're a master or none. I think Eric has actually

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Speaker 2: mastered several and we're going to talk about it, but

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Speaker 2: you know, we're going to get into that moment when

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Speaker 2: Eric decided that he was going to overcome all the

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Speaker 2: challenges that most people in front of the camera have

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Speaker 2: to deal with, as well as a lot of other

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Speaker 2: life experiences. We're going to learn from him.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait.

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Speaker 2: Let's jump into it with Eric LESU. All right, So, Eric,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. And I know

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Speaker 2: that we had briefly met when you were then you're

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Speaker 2: going up to sway over and you were you going

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Speaker 2: over the new book, and so so this is your

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Speaker 2: what installment?

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Speaker 1: Is this your third? This is the third installment in

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Speaker 1: the series. Originally it was going to be a one off,

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Speaker 1: then I did a second one, then it was going

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Speaker 1: to be a trilogy. But I'm already on the fourth

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Speaker 1: and fifth book in the series. This is the Laws

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Speaker 1: of Annihilation is the third one that was just released

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Speaker 1: October twenty fourth.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean congratulations, first of all, because I know

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Speaker 2: how hard it is to write a.

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Speaker 1: Book, but.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you when you think about this book,

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Speaker 2: where where is? And I didn't know about the series

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Speaker 2: prior and then I started telling people that I briefly

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Speaker 2: make you up and a fan of a lot of

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Speaker 2: your work, and you and I shared some of that,

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Speaker 2: and then people knew why it. People were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know what plant I was on? Where did?

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Speaker 2: For those for those who are like me? And of

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Speaker 2: course that's why we do certain things like this to

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Speaker 2: reach a bigger and broader audience. Because I even say,

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Speaker 2: and even like all your work, I mean I read

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Speaker 2: it in the openings from some of these things. I

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Speaker 2: didn't even realize in logan that I that I probably

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Speaker 2: saw you, and you You've been such a chameleon in

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Speaker 2: the way that you've been in front of the camera

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Speaker 2: and definitely in back of the camera, and of course

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Speaker 2: with all the Broadway stuff and everything else. So I

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Speaker 1: And somebody may say.

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Speaker 2: Well, fifteen years when the longest running show, da da da.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's everywhere right where the Kardashians, the CNBC.

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Speaker 2: But I'm actually happy when I see people who say that,

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Speaker 2: because I go there's more people out there who don't know,

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Speaker 2: and it's a fascinating world, a fast moving world. So

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Speaker 2: can you tell me the origin of the of the

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Speaker 2: series where it starts from. Because the whole theory, the whole,

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Speaker 2: the whole theory of this podcast is being such an

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Speaker 2: accomplished person. When was it that moment that you said,

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Speaker 2: I want to do this. Now that moment could have

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Speaker 2: been thirty years ago when you finally got to it.

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Speaker 2: You know a lot of times that moment is damn,

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Speaker 2: I want to do it, Damn, I want to do it,

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Speaker 2: and I'm doing so much and I'm doing someone you

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Speaker 2: know what. This is eating at me so much god

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Speaker 2: damn much. Or it's the Mike Myers coming home one

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Speaker 2: day and talking like Austin powers for for for ten

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Speaker 2: hours to his wife and then like, Hey, I'm want

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Speaker 2: to do this. So when was that moment and what

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting journey about twelve years ago. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's go back even farther. When I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: You know, I used to write poetry, you know, eight

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Speaker 1: years old. I mean as much as one can write

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Speaker 1: poetry at eight years old, but you know, basically between

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Speaker 1: writing and reading, and so I didn't think about being

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Speaker 1: a writer. I at fourteen thought I was going to

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Speaker 1: write a play for my high school drama club to perform.

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Speaker 1: But when I showed up, they were like, we're not

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Speaker 1: interested in that. We want you to audition to be

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Speaker 1: in a role, to play a role. And that was

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Speaker 1: in the play Raising in the Sun by of course

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Speaker 1: Ryan Hansbury. And so then at fourteen the acting bug bit,

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Speaker 1: and so obviously for the next couple of decades that

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Speaker 1: the beginning of my career, I was fired from a

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Speaker 1: movie I had replaced Denzel Washington in a interracial love

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Speaker 1: story with Michelle Pfiffer, and I was, you know, that

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be my That was gonna be the

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Speaker 1: And so I know, I'm down in North Carolina with filming,

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Speaker 1: after looking at Daily's, producer comes to my apartment and says,

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Speaker 1: you look too young to play on film. You look

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Speaker 1: too young to play Michelle Peiffer's love interest. We're going

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Speaker 1: to have to let you go. So I was, you know, fired,

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Speaker 1: I was devastated, And you know the thing about it,

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Speaker 1: there was a moment of saying, you know, I did

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Speaker 1: everything right. I worked my ass off. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: I was screwing up. It wasn't like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was doing the work, and that still wasn't enough. And

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Speaker 1: so I knew I didn't want to spend the rest

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Speaker 1: allowed myself to mourn and be depressed for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days, and then I enrolled in filmmaking class and

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Speaker 1: that started my directing career. Well, simultaneous with a directing career.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you have to write the short films that

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Speaker 1: you're going to direct. So that got me back into

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Speaker 1: a love of writing, but I didn't aggressively pursue it.

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Speaker 1: I was writing more out of necessity to do these films.

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Speaker 1: I wrote and directed and produced a short film that

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg saw and Mel Gibson. They called over to

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Speaker 1: HBO and recommended me for a project, and that launched

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Speaker 1: my directing career. So that was in ninety four ninety five.

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Speaker 1: Sometime I just kept writing short films, kept doing things,

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Speaker 1: and then you got my break. And then it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until eleven twelve years ago. I had this notion that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to write, try my hand out of writing

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Speaker 1: a novel, and I did some stuff, wasn't crazy about it.

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Speaker 1: Then read an interesting article about how all of Jesus's

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Speaker 1: disciples were brutally murdered and which is true, and I

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Speaker 1: just got this epiphany. I was like, that would make

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Speaker 1: a great thing for a serial killer, someone who is

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Speaker 1: killing fallen clergy in the same way that Jesus's disciples

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Speaker 1: were killed. They were beheaded, they were crucified, they were

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Speaker 1: torn Limb from Limb, they died in very vicious ways.

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Speaker 1: So years before I had produced and directed. I produced

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Speaker 1: and starred in a television movie that was by John Sandford,

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Speaker 1: who's a big thriller novelist, and so I love that

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Speaker 1: genre I love and so I thought, well, if I'm

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Speaker 1: going to start writing these books, let me do that genre.

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Speaker 1: So I started writing this based on that articles. So

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Speaker 1: that was the beginning. That was Laws of Gravity, which

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Speaker 1: was the first book. Couldn't get a publisher, self published it.

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Speaker 1: Then I was like, well, you know, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: write another one. So I write the next one, which

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Speaker 1: was called Laws of Wrath. Again got rejected by everyone.

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Speaker 1: And then but along the way I met some really

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Speaker 1: cool people. I started working with a woman by the

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Speaker 1: name of rock Hel Henderson who was into marketing, but

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Speaker 1: she started working with me more as an agent and

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Speaker 1: she just started saying, I don't want you self publishing anymore.

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Speaker 1: I want to get a publisher. So it took us

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Speaker 1: another eight years and we got a publisher. But the

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Speaker 1: cool thing with this with the source books is my

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Speaker 1: publisher in Lavelle Levette, they said, what we want to

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Speaker 1: do is we want to rebrand the two books that

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Speaker 1: you self publish, and we want to remarket them. We

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Speaker 1: want to put those back out. We know you have

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Speaker 1: some new ones coming out, but we want to kick

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Speaker 1: off this series with these two books, and so we

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Speaker 1: did that last year, and then Laws of Annihilation is

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Speaker 1: the first of the new wave of books and in

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Speaker 1: the series. So that's kind of you know, what got

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Speaker 1: me here? And now I'm working on books of four

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Speaker 1: and five in the series. So that's that's the long

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Speaker 1: journey of how I got here.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think as a journey that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people can really relate to, because I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's that's why I do this because I

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Speaker 2: never I never heard everybody hears about Jordan getting cut, right,

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Speaker 2: but what did he do that night? What did he

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Speaker 2: do that week? I don't know what he did. I

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Speaker 2: never heard that story. And for first of all, for

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Speaker 2: you to get a role you know where you know,

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Speaker 2: you know you whether you beat out or I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure how it happened, but you know, the Denzel was

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Speaker 2: considered for it is an extreme high I assume because

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Speaker 2: you sit out in the nineties, right late nineties, was

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Speaker 2: Denzel See Denzel wasn't who he is today.

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Speaker 1: But no, Denzel had the role. He walked away from

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Speaker 1: the product. He walked away. It was so I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if they were creative differences.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure what, but no, that's still that's still

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Speaker 2: a difference, right because it doesn't matter. You got Danzel

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Speaker 2: and then you say, okay, well I think this person

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Speaker 2: is equal, better, greater.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, they did. You know, they did a big

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Speaker 1: you know, they did a big search trying to replace him.

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Speaker 1: And so when I was cast in the role, they

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Speaker 1: were you know, I mean, People Magazine was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is he's on his way and so, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, not that you buy into all of that,

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Speaker 1: but it you know, it sounds great. So and then cut.

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Speaker 2: How many roles did you have? Because the famous role

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Speaker 2: that I think I'm not sure if it was, was

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Speaker 2: it your first role, the coming in America role that

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Speaker 2: everybody was it your breakout role?

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Speaker 1: Was that was one of my first breakout role I'd

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Speaker 1: been working. I was twenty seven at the time. I'd

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Speaker 1: been working for six years, you know, obviously I graduated

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Speaker 1: at twenty one, and so, you know, I'd done some

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Speaker 1: bad movies, some television appearances, soapar per you dude, listen,

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Speaker 1: you just you do what you can, You get whatever

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Speaker 1: job comes your way that you know you can hold

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Speaker 1: your head up. Uh So I was, you know, doing that?

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Speaker 1: So coming to America was the first breakout role?

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, and and and and trust me, I'm getting

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Speaker 2: to where I want to land. There have been people

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Speaker 2: who have had breakout roles like that, who have been

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Speaker 2: pigeon health, and then there's been people who have gone

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Speaker 2: on with massive careers. Right Brad Pitt in True Romance,

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Speaker 2: you know the guys coming in, look at everybody, and

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Speaker 2: he's what you know, he's almost like the role he

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Speaker 2: wanted to Oscar for, you know, like like you're just

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Speaker 2: sitting in there with his weed, right or whatever, or

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Speaker 2: I think Charlie Sheen and Ferris Bueller's day off. And

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Speaker 2: then obviously you and in that role that you were,

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Speaker 2: it was just a small stepping stone to who you

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Speaker 2: are today. However, in between that stepping stone and the

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Speaker 2: very accomplished person you are today, you got that shining

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Speaker 2: moment when across from Michelle Pfeiffer. Even if Denzel was

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Speaker 2: never even in the picture, You're there. It's that moment.

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Speaker 1: Get out of here.

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Speaker 2: Actors aren't guaranteed anything. You have to earn every single

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Speaker 2: room you walk into. I know how it goes. I'm

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Speaker 2: not an actor, but I know when you walk in

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Speaker 2: the room, you're joking and laughing, but you're up against

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Speaker 2: your frenemies. You're wishing each other luck, but it's hard.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's telling you you should get a job because there's

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Speaker 2: no guaranteed they work out there. You get from what

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Speaker 2: you feel is that moment that and you know probably

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Speaker 2: an actor that even if it was that break, that

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Speaker 2: real break moment, you still got it, didn't do it

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Speaker 2: ten more times or twenty more time. What do you

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Speaker 2: do that you just said you felt sorry for yourself?

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Speaker 2: Are things that for a week or something like that?

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Speaker 2: What is the mentality to still say I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go after something where I got to depend on the script,

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Speaker 2: the director, the producer.

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Speaker 1: The author.

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Speaker 2: I I got nine hundred people that have to approve

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Speaker 2: of me, and then after that it's solely up to

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Speaker 2: me to do a good job and maybe the editor

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Speaker 2: screws it up.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know, for me, that process is

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Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I was devastated because you know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I knew I was doing the best

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Speaker 1: that I could do, and so then that's really all

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Speaker 1: you can ever do. And so that wasn't enough. So

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Speaker 1: that night obviously a very very hard night. I felt.

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Speaker 1: It was a nightmare that I just kept trying to

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Speaker 1: even when the producer was telling me that they were

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Speaker 1: you going to have to release me, I kept waiting

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Speaker 1: to wake up and be like, oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: had a nightmare that I lost the shot. Well that

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Speaker 1: nightmare never ended. It was real. So so I what

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Speaker 1: I So, you know, they still had to pay me,

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Speaker 1: and it was the most money I had ever made

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Speaker 1: in my life. And it was like ninety eight thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars I'll never forget, right, And so I took that

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Speaker 1: money and I bought a condo off of the money

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Speaker 1: I made from coming to America, but I hadn't furnished it.

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Speaker 1: So I went to this expensive furniture store Roache Bouboah

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Speaker 1: in New York and spent you know, ten twenty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: I mean, which was so not me. I'm more responsible.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, and then then I

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Speaker 1: said to myself, now what And then that's when the

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Speaker 1: directing concept came along, because I said, I want to

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Speaker 1: empower myself. I want to, like you said, you go

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Speaker 1: through all these things as an actor, and then you

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Speaker 1: don't control this. You don't control that, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I just and it's funny because you know, when you're

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Speaker 1: all of twenty six years old or whatever, and you're

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Speaker 1: like twenty seven, you're like, oh, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be fifty years old. Don't want to be an old

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Speaker 1: man at fifty and still going through this. So and

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Speaker 1: so you try to give yourself other alternatives, other opportunities.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what directing. Directing was was intended for

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Speaker 1: me to be empower self empowerment, and so I you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's that was the evolution of this horrible, what

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Speaker 1: what felt as a horrible situation, making it into something

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Speaker 1: positive and strong. And so that's why I became a director,

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Speaker 1: That's why I got back into writing. And so it's

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Speaker 1: just interesting when the universe does its things, we don't

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Speaker 1: see it in the beginning, but then you realize that

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Speaker 1: it was actually one of the best things to happen. Happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so all of a sudden, ire I'm on the

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Speaker 2: video set. I paid ten hundred thousand dollars to get

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Speaker 2: the shirt in the video, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: I you know, I wait for three months with the

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Speaker 2: video to come out. The shirt is way in the back,

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Speaker 2: barely see it. I paid my twenty thirty, I mean

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Speaker 2: because of trust me. Those rappers didn't take checks right.

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Speaker 2: And then I realized I need to go to directing

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Speaker 2: school because when they say a camera move, or they

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Speaker 2: say they're shooting super slow moll or they're shooting, you

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Speaker 2: know they're gonna get there. They're gonna get there far,

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Speaker 2: then their mid then they're close up, and then I

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Speaker 2: need to know a little bit about editing, from transitions

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Speaker 2: to everything else. I went to directing school. I went

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Speaker 2: to New York Film Academy. I only went there a

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Speaker 2: hot six weeks, and I'm a horrible director. But at

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Speaker 2: least I knew where the camera was moving. I knew

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Speaker 2: where the key light was with the filter fil light was.

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Speaker 2: I knew what lens they were shooting with. I knew

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Speaker 2: that when I was in the car and they were

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Speaker 2: saying a camera move, I knew that I had an

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Speaker 2: hour two hours. I knew how many crew was going there.

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Speaker 2: I knew how to save my time. So the six

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Speaker 2: weeks I may have spent in film Academy, I sayed,

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Speaker 2: on the back end of not having to wonder what

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Speaker 2: was everybody doing in life. But then I get called

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Speaker 2: for Shark Tank, and now, because I know about continuity,

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Speaker 2: the positioning and various other things, well I'm on there

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Speaker 2: for the pilot. Barbara already was doing the morning show,

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Speaker 2: Kevin and Robert were on Dragons, then Laurie was already

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Speaker 2: doing QVC, and Mark Cuban's been on TV for twenty years.

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Speaker 2: I was able to hold my own and that's how

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Speaker 2: I beat out everybody else because that little bit of

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Speaker 2: time that I invested in something that has something to

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Speaker 2: do with my career. So I mean it shows that

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Speaker 2: instead of you sitting there and sulking, you know you

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Speaker 2: made a You didn't just go I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: back to it. You said I'm going to go back

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Speaker 2: to it. I'm going to build a bigger moat around

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Speaker 2: my castle. Now, they say to be a good leader,

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Speaker 2: you have to be a good follower, a good student. Now,

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Speaker 2: with you understanding how it's supposed to be shot and

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Speaker 2: a very intimate understanding of it, how do you then

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Speaker 2: move back? Because I look at the Clint Eastwoods of

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Speaker 2: the world. I look at you, I look at a

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Speaker 2: lot of people who will still leave it up to

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Speaker 2: the director and play the role and be a student

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Speaker 2: or be a follower, you know, And how difficult is

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Speaker 2: that at times when you know better than what's happening.

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Speaker 2: Or do you just decide to only work with really

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Speaker 2: people you've been comfortable with and you're respect and you're

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Speaker 2: probably learning from them simultaneously.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's a combination, you know. Over my evolution,

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Speaker 1: I don't pursue acting as aggressively as I used to.

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Speaker 1: I focus much more on directing and executive producing. I'm

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Speaker 1: doing a project right now. We were shut down, of

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Speaker 1: course with the strike, but you know, back in May,

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Speaker 1: I was doing a project. I work a lot with

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Speaker 1: the Dick Wolf camp. The been amazing to me. They've

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Speaker 1: they've supported my career, They've they trust me, They've they've

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Speaker 1: given me amazing opportunities. So I'm very, very loyal to

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Speaker 1: that camp, and they're very loyal to the people in

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Speaker 1: their camp. Uh So, I just finished directing the pilot

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Speaker 1: and uh and I'll be directing half the episodes of

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Speaker 1: he has a brand new show that will be coming

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Speaker 1: out and it's his first for rate into streaming. So

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Speaker 1: his new show is on it's called on Call, will

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Speaker 1: be uh airing on Amazon. So I, you know, I

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Speaker 1: come in, I direct the pilot, I direct the first

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Speaker 1: two episodes and then I'll direct two more episodes. We're

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Speaker 1: doing eight episodes, and so I'm I'm directing, I'm executive producing,

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Speaker 1: and I'm acting uh in it. So I haven't acted

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Speaker 1: really in a while, and so I have the luxury

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Speaker 1: of you know, saying, Okay, if I feel like doing this,

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Speaker 1: if this is a good role, this is a good director.

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Speaker 1: That was the case back in twenty sixteen when Logan

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Speaker 1: came along and I had the opportunity and I auditioned

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Speaker 1: for it. I you know, I wanted it, and working

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Speaker 1: with James Mangold was just awesome. I mean great, really

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Speaker 1: really good director, actors, director, fun, cool and knows his stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I still, you know, I get to work with

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Speaker 1: people like that, I still grow, I still, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. I look at even his his first

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Speaker 1: ad was you know, was amazing, and his his the

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Speaker 1: crew that he had, So I'm still learning and that

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Speaker 1: was Sometimes it's great to just show up because he

390
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Speaker 1: has actors, you have to focus on one thing, your role.

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Speaker 1: As a director and a producer, you have to focus

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Speaker 1: on everybody's role, the writing, the lighting, and every every

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Speaker 1: aspect of filmmaking. I happened to be built for that.

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Speaker 1: So but right now, you know, my career has afforded

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Speaker 1: me the luxury. I'm blessed to be able to say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I want to do this, I want

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Speaker 1: to do that. I think I would be a I

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Speaker 1: think personally I would be a bitter actor if I

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Speaker 1: were just relying on acting, because you know, sometimes you

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Speaker 1: get in a room and you realize that you know

401
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: more about storytelling than the director that you' you know

402
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Speaker 1: what I mean? And so I don't. And that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a tough one. And I'm not saying like I

404
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Speaker 1: know it all. I'm not, by no means saying that.

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Speaker 1: I'm simply saying I'm a student. I study the craft.

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Speaker 1: I've studied, I've you know, I put a lot into it.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, there are some directors that they show up,

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Speaker 1: they're not prepared, they don't really know how to work

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Speaker 1: with actors. They don't even to communicate with actors. I'm

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Speaker 1: known as a performance director because coming from acting, I

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Speaker 1: know how to communicate with actors. I know how to

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Speaker 1: get their best performances out of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get what you're saying. You're saying you would

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Speaker 2: never want to work with me. I get it.

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Speaker 1: I understand.

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Speaker 2: I get yo, hire a good DP. I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 2: you what I want for lunch and get this ship

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Speaker 2: set up. No, that's not that's not that's not that's

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Speaker 2: not it.

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Speaker 1: So but you know, but I but if I had

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Speaker 1: to rely on that, if that's my only source of

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Speaker 1: income and my only source of survival, then I think

423
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Speaker 1: you become That's one way to become bitter because you

424
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: start going this person doesn't know what they're doing. They

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Speaker 1: want me now to audition for the tenth lead. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to pay me any money. Look, I'm a

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Speaker 1: middle age African American artist. So the opportunities they're just

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Speaker 1: not there for you know, in general, for like a

429
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 1: great livelihood of this. You know that it's more competitive

430
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Speaker 1: in that pool. So you know a lot of times

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00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: you go in and now they're like they forget that

432
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: you were on one of the biggest shows and history,

433
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: or it's not even so much. I they forget. It

434
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter to them, and so you go and announce.

435
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: They want you to. They want you to make, you know,

436
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: scale money when they're paying, you know, some of your

437
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: counterparts lots of money. So I instead of sitting around

438
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: and griping about, oh the woes of being an actor,

439
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: the woes of being a middle aged African American actor,

440
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: I go out and create my own opportunities. I go

441
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: out and do my thing. I focus on the directing

442
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: and the producer, which you know obviously has much more power.

443
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: And I also help to shape the overall story more

444
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: because here's the other dynamic thing. As an actor, maybe

445
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: they bring on three two to three other African Americans,

446
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: someone to play my wife, someone to play my children,

447
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: a relative. As a director, I can magnify, I can

448
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: multiply that number. But I make sure that we have

449
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 1: a diverse crew, that we have diverse actors. I can

450
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,239
Speaker 1: go in even as a guest director. I've been on

451
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: shows where I've gone and said, I know this was written,

452
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: this judge was written for a white male. Why can't

453
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: we cast an Asian female in this role? And a

454
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, it's not like they're resistant

455
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: they're just go, oh, I never thought of that. That's

456
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: the importance of having representation in the room. That's the

457
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: importance of having presence in the room where we can

458
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: mix up different ideas. So I have much more power,

459
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: I have much more input. I have much more control

460
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: as a director and executive producer than I do as

461
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: an actor. And so that really feeds me.

462
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: I think there's so many powerful things there because I

463
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 2: want to get to you know, I really want to

464
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: get to the law of the annihilation. But in right there,

465
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: you said something so powerful that I don't know if

466
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: I've ever heard it all or it's been very obvious

467
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: the way somebody said it. You said, I would have

468
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 2: become a bitter actor. And the reason why I think

469
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: that that is powerful is there's so many people in

470
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: positions bittioning, moaning about what they're doing in life, and

471
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 2: they'll do it for thirty years at some office or someplace,

472
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: but they didn't try to either become a manager or

473
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: put in more time on something else. So sol to

474
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: compounds and they get to leave there and they're so

475
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: bitter at that place that first of all, they're showing

476
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: up every day and the person's employing them. They're pissed

477
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: off though, and they're making it everybody else's problem, when

478
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: really they would have been bitter if they didn't judge.

479
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: They're bitter because they didn't change any of the potential outcomes.

480
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 2: So I think that's so whether you're in a relationship

481
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: and you keep taking the same shit all the time

482
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: and you become bitter, and I think that's really powerful.

483
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 2: But also I don't want to brush over now maybe it,

484
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: maybe it happened, and maybe all of a sudden because

485
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: the way that I have read about all your information,

486
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like you're somebody who takes no for

487
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: an answer. But you know, as you as you talk

488
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 2: about the beauty and the and the and the ability

489
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: of being a director and those things that you have

490
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: a little more under your control. I'm sure that you

491
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: didn't say I want to direct and somebody just said

492
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: here take my story and take all this money and

493
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: no problem. I'm sure that wasn't the easiest thing to

494
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 2: uh transfer over to as well, because like you said,

495
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: people hold you in the box, so you must have

496
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: had failures and we don't need to go all over

497
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: overall them. But was it an easy transition because or

498
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: what do you think it was a little more challenging.

499
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: Well, I think this. I think people judge so much

500
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: based on their own ability and their own vision, your

501
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: self vision. So if as a as an individual, I

502
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: can't see like you look at Michael Jordan, you look

503
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: at Dion Sanders, you look at Bo Jackson. These were

504
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: guys and there were many, there were more, but these

505
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: were people that were able to do not just won't

506
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: be great in one sport, they were able to do

507
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: multiple sports. Now most of us can't truly grasp that,

508
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: most of Now here's the difference though, those of us

509
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: that can't grasp it. Some of us we're not criticizing

510
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: those that can't. And so a lot of times you

511
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: run into obstacles when people don't have the vision for themselves.

512
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: They don't have that vision for you, they will criticize you,

513
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: or they will become even an obstacle because they were like, well, oh,

514
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: he's an actor. So when I you know, look, there

515
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: are many more directors actors that direct now, but when

516
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: I started, there really weren't a lot, and so I

517
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: had to fight with the whole concept. But well, you're

518
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: an actor, Well yeah, no, I'm and so I started

519
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: doing small, sometimes big and medium sized moves, which was this.

520
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: I made a conscious choice to not direct R when

521
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: I started doing so, I went out when e Ark

522
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: brought us this international thing. Is now being prepared for

523
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: the moment. And this is something that you touched on

524
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: in your journey when you said you went and went

525
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: to filmmaking classes to understand the crowd, which then ultimately

526
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: prepared you more for the big moment of Shark Tank.

527
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: You were able to hold you the right. What people

528
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: have to understand is be prepared so you don't have

529
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: to get prepared because when the opportunity presents itself, you

530
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: don't want to be like, oh, I wish I was

531
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: more prepared. Now I'm going to go, because that opportunity

532
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: may never come around again. So when Er hit big,

533
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: I had an opportunity. Steven Spielberg was an executive producer

534
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: on it. So I'm now in proximity to people that

535
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: I only dreamed of being in proximity. So what did

536
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: I do. I went and shot a short film so

537
00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: that they could have something to evaluate my talent. And

538
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: so I gave it. You know, I made sure he

539
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: saw it. He was a fan of what I did,

540
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: Mel Gibson. So now I'm in a different thing. So

541
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: I was already prepared.

542
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, wait, how do you shaid that you

543
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: had you got your audition to direct the short film?

544
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: Or this is your own film?

545
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: I know, I know. I spent my own money. It

546
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: was my investment and I had done a few short films,

547
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: but this was my big one. This was I'll never forget.

548
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: This was a forty thousand dollars short film for a

549
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: half hound, you know, on my first year of er.

550
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: You know. So I had some money I invested in me,

551
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: We got a we shot, and then that became my

552
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: calling card. So that was my way of showing, hey,

553
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: not only am I talking about film, this is what

554
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: I can do with film. So they loved how I

555
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: told stories. So by the time this opportunity presented itself

556
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: at HBO, I had fans to support me, and I

557
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: had material for them to view and say, this guy

558
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: knows how to tell a story. So that was my

559
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: breakout as a rector. But it was an investment. And

560
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: so those are the kinds of steps that I think

561
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: people instead of talking about things, instead of being better,

562
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: I think you have to be prepared, be ready, so

563
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: you don't have to get ready like I like, you

564
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: know what, I like to start preparing on things before

565
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: before I'm making it. The transition, I think if you

566
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: wait to and sometimes you have no choice, but when

567
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: you wait to make a decision in transition, you're more

568
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: susceptible to desperation, You're more But if you've been planning

569
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: this thing, like I was planning directing before R. I

570
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: was shooting short films before R. So all these years,

571
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: now as I get better opportunities, I go, oh, let

572
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: me really focus on this thing, because here's an opportunity

573
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: because now I'm rubbing elbows with people that was not

574
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: available to me before. So my big thing is, don't

575
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: get ready, be ready, like you know what I mean.

576
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: So because you never know, shark tank comes along. You

577
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: don't know anything about film, you don't know anything about

578
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: you know, holding yourself, holding your own against these colleagues

579
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: that are you know, they're killing it, they're doing their thing.

580
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: And here you come going, well, I don't know, I

581
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: don't know. Well, that opportunity may never come back, that

582
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: specific opportunity may never come back around. So if you

583
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: weren't ready, you would have missed a life changing opportunity,

584
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: and so being prepared it allowed you to allowed us

585
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: to be where we are right now. And I think

586
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 1: that that's really really important for people to understand.

587
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, you don't talk, you live

588
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 2: it right because you know you got you know, at

589
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: a pivotal point in your life. You know you got

590
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: whatever right you didn't get picked for something. You then

591
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: invested in yourself and then invested in going directing school.

592
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: Then you're doing great. And then you go and invest

593
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars in your own short film. That's just

594
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 2: purely investment because you were confident that you needed to

595
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: be more aggressive about you didn't wait with your hand out.

596
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: And then you don't stop there. You invest in your

597
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: own self published book, in your own series. Not one.

598
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: I think you invested in two of your own because

599
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: the first one, I mean, I have self publish a

600
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: book didn't go that well. But my drive to want

601
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: to keep educating people in yours, to want to keep

602
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: entertaining people with this with laws annihilation now as we're

603
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: calling it, was driving you and then all of a

604
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: sudden boom, you're here. And I want people to understand that.

605
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: Obviously this clearly comes from a passion to drive. And

606
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: I guess probably was what made you want to go more?

607
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: Series?

608
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: Was it that the people that were getting a hold

609
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: of the series of what your stuff were were just

610
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: enthrall Because a lot of times when you do something

611
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: just like food, I close it down three times. Why

612
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: I ran out a couple of dollars. But every time I,

613
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: unlike my other businesses, I'd walk down the street, somebody say,

614
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: oh yo, you can't believe when I wore this food

615
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 2: with shirt, this and that, what are you gonna sell morning?

616
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it again? Are you crazy? And I

617
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: was like, And after a while, it pulled me back

618
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: in the business, pulled me back in what was What

619
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: was those things or those moments or whatever that you said,

620
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: I gotta keep going. You may have just said, you

621
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: know what, I'm only into two out of five. I

622
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 2: got so much more for this to unravel, and it's

623
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: therapeutic for me. I have no idea. But what was

624
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: the driving force that keep you going, that kept you

625
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: going on this?

626
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: Well, it's a couple of things. I mean, first and foremost,

627
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: I love what I do. I love being an artist,

628
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: and it took me several years. You Okay, well, I'm

629
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: I'm an actor and now I'm a director, and people

630
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: want to put titles on things, and so at some

631
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: point I realized the title that I'm most comfortable with

632
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: is I'm a storyteller. I love telling stories. That's mys

633
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: you have my mans. The title that I'm most comfortable

634
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: with is I'm a storyteller. I love telling stories, like

635
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: that's my passion. I think very similar to the concept

636
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: of Shark Tank. I think any good business person and

637
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: I don't profess to be the most the best business

638
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: person because I'm very passionate about my art and sometimes,

639
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: you know, I can't just be sort of, you know,

640
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: separate and just be like this is business. But one

641
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: business thing that I that I the few things that

642
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: I do succeed well in, is this, like with sharp Tank,

643
00:35:54,160 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: understanding first and foremost a need for a product. What

644
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: will make your product different than what's out there? What? Oh,

645
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: no one thought of? You know what? You know? Story

646
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: I love. I love the story of the guy that

647
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: created the scrunchy for women, the thing that women put

648
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: in their hair. It's of rubber with cloth around it. Right,

649
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: it's a game changer though, right, But that around and said, okay,

650
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: if you just put regular rubber bands on it, it

651
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: breaks your hair, it does this, it does that. So

652
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: someone said I'm gonna put cloth on it. So someone

653
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: recognized a need, and that's to me, that's the first

654
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: thing towards successful business endeavors. Well, what I realized is that,

655
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: what's the first thing we said? When we see a

656
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: movie that has been adapted from a book? Most of

657
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: us say ninety nine percent of the time, the book

658
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: was much better. There's why because authors will write these books,

659
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: then someone comes along and says they want to option

660
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: it for a lot of money. They sell, They basically

661
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: give their baby away and say raise my I'm trusting

662
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: you to raise my baby with my values. No, you're

663
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: going to raise the baby with your value because you

664
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: want the guardian of this baby. So I feel like

665
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: these books were always meant to be a strong and

666
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:32,959
Speaker 1: successful literary franchise that then turns into a strong television,

667
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: streaming or movie franchise. And who better to be in

668
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: a position to tell that story and take care of

669
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: the baby than the person that birthed it. And so,

670
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: but there aren't many people that know how to do

671
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: all of these things. So everything that I do feeds.

672
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: So I'm like when I turn these into movies, when

673
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: I turn these into television series, it's the same point

674
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: of view of the person that wrote it. So I

675
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about someone coming on, Oh that's

676
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: not important, that chapter is not important. Oh we can

677
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: change this, We can do it. And that's exactly what

678
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: happens with books. And then that's why they don't translate

679
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: always that Well, it's rare for a movie to be

680
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: as good as the book. Those you can count that

681
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: on two hands, right, So that's from a business point

682
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: of view, I saw that as a great opportunity and

683
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: that's a part of my goal and a part of

684
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: my strategy.

685
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: And when we check out Laws of Annihilation, what are

686
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: we going to take away from it? Because I love

687
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 2: the I love where where you're coming from with it

688
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,479
Speaker 2: is that you know a martyr and those who who

689
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: really get hunted down basically in a sense of you

690
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: know where you're originating and you're from. What am I

691
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: going to take away? What is a reader going to

692
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: take away from this? Aeries?

693
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: Well, I think this. I think there's another thing when

694
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: I talk about understanding need in business and recognizing needs.

695
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: I think the thriller genre, and you have to understand

696
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: that there aren't many people of color in this genre.

697
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: I don't think the industry has done I don't think

698
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: the publishing industry has done much to promote that or

699
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: to you know, multiply that. And I think, you know,

700
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: so I recognize that a lot of times with thrillers,

701
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: you have a bad guy, you have the good guy

702
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: chasing the bad guy. We all know, as we're sophisticated

703
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: enough readers and audience to know the good guy's going

704
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: to catch the bad guy at some point. So what

705
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: I saw in that structure in that, you know, just

706
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: just just having that format consistent, was I make my

707
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: characters it's not it's not just the mystery of will

708
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: they catch the bad guy, it's they go in a

709
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: spiritual quest as well. So the question is will they

710
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: lose their souls in pursuit of the bad will they

711
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: like so, they might, they might solve the case, but

712
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: what will it cost them? Because all of my books

713
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: cost my protagonists and sometimes in the first book, we've

714
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: had people rooting for the bad guy because it was

715
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: a it was a serial killer that was killing pedophiles

716
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: and fallen priests, et cetera. So so when you when you

717
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: ask what do you take away, you take away some

718
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: great characterization. My books are very visual because of where

719
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: I come from. My books people always talk about how

720
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: cinematic they are. I also recognize a need in that.

721
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: A lot of times when you read a book, people

722
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: will tell you, oh, once you make it past the

723
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: first hundred pages, it gets really good, and I go,

724
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 1: I don't want to wait for one hundred pages. Come

725
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: out the gate. So my books come out the gate

726
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 1: literally on page one or two. We come out sprinting,

727
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: and we sprint through the whole thing. So you have

728
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: a different type of a read and particularly with Laws

729
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: of Annihilation. Laws of Annihilation deals with their three protagonists

730
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: very much like the movie Seven. When you have a

731
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: Salt and Pepper team. You have a Irish Italian American

732
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: detective who's partner with an African American detective. They are

733
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: the best closers in New York City. They only investigate

734
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: high profile serial killings. They team up with a Jewish

735
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: female FBI agent who has also been chasing after one

736
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: of their killers for years. So those are my protagonists.

737
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: Each book. Each of these three books so far deals

738
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 1: with one of their stories. So the first book, Laws

739
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: of Propriety, the Irish Italian cop was an altar boy

740
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: who was molested by his priest. He's now investigating a

741
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: serial killer who's killing pedophiles, the priests that are pedophiles.

742
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: The second book the African America and his father was

743
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: a famous, notorious gangster considered the godfather of Harlem. Some

744
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: of the case, some of the things that he did

745
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: in his past comes back to Hantam. In this third book,

746
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: Laws of Annihilation, we have our Jewish female FBI agent

747
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer and she's

748
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: now presented with the biggest case of her career, which

749
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: are hate crimes. Two rabbis are viciously murdered in a synagogue.

750
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: So we have a Jewish woman who's also finding her

751
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: She's been a bit detached from her Jewishness, so this

752
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 1: case forces her to connect more with that. So our

753
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: question there is ay not just will she find will

754
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: she live long enough to stop the bad guy. So

755
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: you have a couple of different things going on, but

756
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: you have the personal thing and what we're witnessing in

757
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: the world right now. Unfortunately, all of this racial hatred

758
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: and Laws of Annihilation. You have the African American community

759
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: at war with the Jewish community, and you also realize

760
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: that someone greater than both of those communities are manipulating

761
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: them against each other. So you have stuff that's happening

762
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: in the world in real time. We have all this

763
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: racial hatred going on right now, We have a lot

764
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: of anti Semitic crimes are on the rise right now.

765
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: These are real things. So to put that into a

766
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: book and then to give you a protagonist who every

767
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: page you don't know if she's going to make it

768
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: or not, and then you don't know if she's going

769
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: to be able to stop the bad guys. That's to me,

770
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: that makes a great, strong thriller. And so that's what

771
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: this book. That's the takeaway from Laws of Annihilation, and

772
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: that's what people are responding to, coupled with the writing style,

773
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: the breakneck turn you know, the page turner mentality, the quickness,

774
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: and people are like, I can't put the book down.

775
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 1: So that's what you expect in my books, and that's

776
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: what Laws of Annihilation offers in spades.

777
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: Well, I love about it, you know, and so for

778
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: somebody who may see this two years from now, I

779
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 2: want them to be very clear that the book was

780
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: written before we've had some recent events that we just

781
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: talked about, so this was a precursor to unfortunately those events.

782
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: And I think that also thinking about your directing when

783
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 2: you said it's written from a cinematic because I can

784
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: see you looking at the shot when you're pulling back

785
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 2: or when you're you're in on the shot, so I

786
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: can see the description really in the book. I also

787
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: love the fact that the protagonist, you know, a lot

788
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: of times where we are today, we don't want to

789
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: become the thing we're fighting against, but we end up

790
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: almost becoming the thing we're fighting against. You have to

791
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: take on a little bit of that you know that

792
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: you're fighting against, Like, you know, this person wants to

793
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: stop somebody who's killing individuals that they feel may or

794
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: may not need to be, don't need to be on

795
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 2: this planet. However, you got to take that personally. It's

796
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: really a challenging situation.

797
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: Well what lines are you willing to cross? And so

798
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: you do you keep your integrity intact? Do you keep

799
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: your morals intact? And that's when you ask what makes

800
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: my books different. That's a central theme of all of

801
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: the entire franchise is will these people respect the fact

802
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: that they are cops? Will they? Will they whether it

803
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: be a fidelity to that and so and and you

804
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: know what, will they be faithful to to to who

805
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: they who their core beliefs are. And we as we

806
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: started investigating these these horrible crimes, it pulls them and

807
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: it makes them want to across the line. And sometimes

808
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: maybe they do, you know what I mean, maybe they

809
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: get very gray. Maybe so. And that's the other thing.

810
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: Law enforcement is not black and white, and so I

811
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: also show that. But that's something that is really really key,

812
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: and it just adds different elements. So it's not just

813
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: a regular book you pick up. There's so many books.

814
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: I think this. I think the average reader takes about

815
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: two weeks, two to three weeks to read a book.

816
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: Asking for two to three weeks of your life, I

817
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: have to give you something different, I have to give

818
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: you something. How many times have you read a book

819
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: and literally four days later you don't even remember most

820
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: of it? And so I want something that you go wow,

821
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: like I went on a journey. And that's what I

822
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: love about the reviews. That's what I love about the

823
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: passion from the readers is that they go on a

824
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: journey and they write about the journey they talk about.

825
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: I was up late at night. I couldn't put the

826
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: book down. This thing resonated with me. All the hatred

827
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: that's going on in the world right now, and you

828
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: know this in France, Chisement, all of that stuff. Those

829
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: are the things that make me feel really, really, really

830
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: really great about being a writer in.

831
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: A straight well, I love it. I want to see

832
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: I want to I want to read it. And that

833
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: says a lot when I'm dyslexic, because I think that

834
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 2: you know, if you really compile, you know, I always say,

835
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 2: the only thing that's more important than the information hearing

836
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: is a person that's coming from a source. And for

837
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: you to be somebody that knows the cameras don't roll,

838
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: and actors and actresses aren't there unless every single minute

839
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: a second they're shooting it is for a bigger purpose

840
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: and it means something. It's not there just to kind

841
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 2: of shoot the ship, right. And you know, when you

842
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: look at people who are altered, often because they have

843
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: the the freelance and the style to make things they

844
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: don't think about it from time is money Tom nothing

845
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: against them. A lot of people want, you know, really

846
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: really great long stories. But you're packing this thing filled

847
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 2: because of where you come from. You're packing and filled

848
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: with what the reader is looking for for the ups,

849
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: the downs, the the challenging moments, the things that they

850
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: probably need to reflect in themselves, what's going on out there,

851
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: and you know that they have limited time and you

852
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 2: want to tell a story in that time, and you're

853
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: also telling it from the director's standpoint.

854
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: I love it.

855
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: I think I think that you were built for this

856
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 2: a long time ago, and I appreciate the fact that

857
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 2: you're doing it. So any last, any last where can

858
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 2: we get it? What? What should we be looking forward to?

859
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: Any ways that we can support you? Because you've been

860
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: you've been, You've been entertaining and bringing joy to us

861
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: and education us for so many years. Where do we

862
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 2: get the book? Tell us more and more about how

863
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: we can support you.

864
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So my books are sold everywhere. Books are sold now, Amazon,

865
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble obviously the end of pendent bookstores, which

866
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 1: we love to support, but it's you know, it's everywhere,

867
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: and that's of course the beauty of you know, being

868
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: not being self published is that you are, you end

869
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 1: up in better places. My social media, I'm on Facebook, x, Instagram,

870
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: everything's under Eric Lacel and I also have a website.

871
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 1: I am Eric lsu dot com and that tells you appearances,

872
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: new things. You know, we post when my new show

873
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: is coming out, so all the acting stuff, all the

874
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: writing stuff. So I'm pretty accessible and I actually really

875
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: like to respond to readers when they hit me and

876
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: engage in conversations and you know, via social media. So

877
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: so yeah, so I'm I'm pretty easy to find. And

878
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: the book just came out, Laws of Annihilation, and like

879
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: I said, anywhere books are sold and I'm working on

880
00:49:58,600 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: the fourth and fifth book now.

881
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: All right, brother, Well, thank you so much, man, and

882
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: I will be supporting you and I'm a huge fan

883
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,439
Speaker 2: of your work and keep bringing us joy.

884
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks man, it's just been great talking to you.

885
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: I'm glad we got a chance to bump into each

886
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: other in New York and make this happen, and definitely

887
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: hope our paths cross more. You know, love what you're

888
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: doing and what you represent, and it's been just so

889
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: absolutely pleasure to getting a chance to talk to.

890
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much, you do

891
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: that Moment with Damon John is a production of the

892
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black

893
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

894
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite show and don't forget

895
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,879
Speaker 2: to subscribe to and rate the show. And of course

896
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 2: you didn't all connect with me on any of my

897
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: social media platforms. At the Shark, Damon spelled like Raymond,

898
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: but what a d