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Speaker 1: On today's news episode, we're also talking to your friendly

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Speaker 1: neighborhood spider Man showrunner Jeff Tremmel and more, and he

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Speaker 1: drops a juicy nugget in this interview, so stay tuned.

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Speaker 2: Here we go.

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Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Jason Young and I'm Mersey Night,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to the X revision of the podcast

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Speaker 1: where we dive deep for dear favorite shows, movies, comics,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture. Coming over our podcast or we're bringing

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Speaker 1: you three huge episodes every single week's news on the weekends.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and in today's previously on news episode, we are

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Speaker 3: catching up on all the biggest geek news of the week,

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Speaker 3: including we got a premier day the Last of Us

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Speaker 3: season two were and we're also cl some first pictures

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Speaker 3: from the adaptation of Martha Well's Murder Box that's going

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Speaker 3: to be on Apple TV.

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Speaker 2: Plus.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that could be a set level here

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Speaker 3: if they get it right. We got some Doom news,

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Speaker 3: Marvel Rivals layoffs chat, and that aforementioned interview with your

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Speaker 3: friendly neighborhood spider Man right Jeff Trumout, which does include

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Speaker 3: some spoilers for the season one finale and the series,

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Speaker 3: but also includes a nice interesting scoop for season two,

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Speaker 3: so make sure you stay listening.

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Speaker 4: But first, let's talk about news.

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Speaker 1: First up, the Last of Us Season two on HBO

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Speaker 1: gets its premiere date. For those of you who have

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Speaker 1: been upset because it appears that Catherine Devor did not

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Speaker 1: get into the gym get swollen, it ripped for Abby, well,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to be satisfied with this news about

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Speaker 1: the release date, which is April thirteenth, nine pm Eastern.

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Speaker 1: Not long to wait, guys, here it comes on HBON Max.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be covering the show and we're super excited.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'm very too about it. I'm excited about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm scared about it. I'm worried about it. Yeah, trepidacious

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Speaker 1: the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: I think that Catherine Deava has the chops. I don't

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Speaker 3: think she needs to get buff to be Abby. I

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Speaker 3: think she just needs to be menacing and paralyzing. We

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Speaker 3: need you to get just like It's fine, like the

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Speaker 3: characters important. Jason, were you a fan of the Last

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Speaker 3: of Us Part two?

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Speaker 4: The game?

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: It was absolutely grim and gritty and morally questionable and

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Speaker 1: emotionally hard hitting and ultra ultra violence. And a incredible story.

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Speaker 3: Truly an unbelievable experience to play that game, and I'm

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Speaker 3: very interested to see how that translates to the season.

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Speaker 3: I also saw that they had a great poster with

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Speaker 3: Pedro Pascal as Joel and it says the tagline is

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Speaker 3: something like every choice has consequences, and I think that

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Speaker 3: that is going to be so interesting to see how

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Speaker 3: that plays out.

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Speaker 4: Can't wait for that show.

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Speaker 3: Yep, we'll be covering it and it is going to

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Speaker 3: be coming up much sooner than it feels possible. So

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Speaker 3: if you want to replay the game, great time to

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Speaker 3: start now, and you know we'll be chatting about it

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Speaker 3: in the discord. There's lots of conversation about Last of

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Speaker 3: Us Season two in there.

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Speaker 1: Next up, Apple TV plus has unveiled a couple of

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Speaker 1: images two images from its highly anticipated upcoming sci fi

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Speaker 1: thriller series murder Bots, which is, of course the adaptation

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Speaker 1: of Martha Well's Hugo and Nebula Award winning book series.

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Speaker 1: Very very readable, great book series about a robot who

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Speaker 1: is fascinated by human emotion. Yeah, I'll just say that,

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Speaker 1: and it stars Alexander Alexander Scarsguard of Succession true Blood,

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Speaker 1: big littleized others, and if they get this right, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be huge.

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Speaker 3: It feels like this could be another massive breakthrough hit.

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Speaker 3: We were talking in the group chat and super producer

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Speaker 3: Carmen mentioned, you know, I only ever see memes from

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Speaker 3: Apple Plus TV that are about Severance.

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Speaker 4: And I was thinking about it, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: that is.

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Speaker 3: Their first massive breakthrough hit where people who have never

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Speaker 3: watched Severance know who Milchick is, people who have never

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Speaker 3: watched Severance are using inyan auiti as colloquial.

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Speaker 4: Terms about going to work.

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Speaker 3: Like it has really had that cultural smash hit feeling.

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Speaker 4: And I'm very interested.

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Speaker 3: To see how they adapt this book because Martha Wells

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Speaker 3: has such a light touch when it comes to comedic

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Speaker 3: sci fi kind of dystopia, and she is murder Bot

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Speaker 3: is definitely her.

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Speaker 4: Most popular series.

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Speaker 3: She also writes fantasy stuff like The Witch King and

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Speaker 3: other books. But I think that getting that tone right

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Speaker 3: is going to be the most important thing. And also

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Speaker 3: like the breeziness of the books, as you said, Jason,

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Speaker 3: feels very readable. I'm interested to see if they're going

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Speaker 3: to be able to capture that in a prestige TV setting.

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Speaker 3: But I have to say, until this reveal of the photos,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that it was Alexander Scarsguard starring in this.

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Speaker 4: And I think he absolutely has the chops.

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Speaker 2: He can be.

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Speaker 3: Funny, he can be scary, he can be weird, he

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Speaker 3: can be emotionless, he can be vulnerable. I think that

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Speaker 3: with a writing team that includes Academy Award nominees, you know,

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Speaker 3: created by Chris and Paul White who did About a

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Speaker 3: Boy and Mozige in the Jungle, I'm interested and I

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Speaker 3: think this could potentially become Prestige TV magic.

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Speaker 4: But it will be interesting to see.

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Speaker 3: Because Apple has had some huge properties that they've managed

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Speaker 3: to adapt, they have not necessarily hit the lofty heights

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Speaker 3: of severance. But I can't wait to see this, and

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Speaker 3: I think Scarsguard is a Kia Costing.

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Speaker 5: I agree.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break, be right back, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we're back. Video game fans, Dune Awakening has just released

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Speaker 1: a trailer announcing its release date. The game is coming

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Speaker 1: out on PC May twentieth. It is a massively multiplayer

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Speaker 1: online style game of survival game a lot of sandworm action.

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Speaker 1: In the trailer, dune heads, get ready, this looks right

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Speaker 1: up your alley.

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Speaker 3: You can do spice, you can get the blue eyed glow.

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Speaker 4: You can And also a very.

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Speaker 3: Important point here, thank you to whom stever amongst you

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Speaker 3: mentioned this in our show notes. But the main character

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Speaker 3: is very hot, and that is very important in a

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Speaker 3: modern game, whether it is Balder's Gate Anasterian, whether.

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Speaker 4: It is the recent billion dollar.

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Speaker 3: Making romance game Love and Deep Space, which if you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, and just made its creator a billion dollars

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Speaker 3: for the first time, one of the most popular boyfriend

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Speaker 3: sim games.

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Speaker 4: You gotta have a hot video game character.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like in an era where Zendaa and.

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Speaker 4: Timmy Shallo may are your leads in Dune.

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Speaker 3: Alongside stars like you know, Oscar Isaac, Famous Daddy and

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Speaker 3: other hotties. Austin Bala he wasn't looking too hot, but

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Speaker 3: you know he's got his fans. He's got his fans,

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Speaker 3: even with that fair, bold head. But I feel like

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Speaker 3: having a hot main character is very important. Also absolutely

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Speaker 3: obsessed with a power waiting to be harneched power like

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Speaker 3: that's it's so silly, You're.

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Speaker 4: Gonna have those heavy drums. But twenty and the game.

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Speaker 1: Will launch on Xbox some some point.

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Speaker 3: Coming soon, But yes, I am. I'm intrigued about this.

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Speaker 1: It seems like yeah.

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Speaker 3: Game that if you get it right, it could become

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Speaker 3: huge and if you get it right.

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Speaker 1: No early reviews yet obviously, but just looking at the trailer,

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Speaker 1: it the feel to me is like Mass Effect. So

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Speaker 1: as a fan of the Mass Effect series, I'm very

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Speaker 1: intrigued and I think I'll be there a super producer,

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Speaker 1: and Spice Lord Taboo is of course wanting to know

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Speaker 1: if we're going to do a Dune Awakening hang. Yes,

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Speaker 1: of course we're going to do a Dune Awakening hang,

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Speaker 1: but that's after we do the Marvel Rivals hang. That

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Speaker 1: has yet to happen. Speaking of Marvel Rivals. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: Marvel Rivals.

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Speaker 2: Please.

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Speaker 1: So late stage capitalism news from net Ease, the maker

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Speaker 1: of Marvel Rivals. On February eighteenth, Marvel Rivals revealed the

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Speaker 1: power sets and the look of Fantastic Force, Human Torch

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Speaker 1: and the Thing that Are. They released February twenty first Friday,

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Speaker 1: So those are out now and playable if you are

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Speaker 1: a fan of the game and very fun.

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Speaker 3: Looks great, nothing could go wrong. This is a very

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Speaker 3: popular game.

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Speaker 1: And then it announced that they were shutting down the

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Speaker 1: US support division of Marvel Rival is a game that

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Speaker 1: has made hundreds of millions of.

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Speaker 4: Dollars and has been massively successful in North.

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Speaker 1: America, extremely extremely successful. This group includes level designers, people

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Speaker 1: that work work on maps, and some support for the

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Speaker 1: team that is based in China. Now, this is we

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Speaker 1: can blame Neti's for this, but this is also this

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Speaker 1: is a sad fact of how the industry works, and

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Speaker 1: this particular division is like not the Also, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is not the harm division. This is this is the

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Speaker 1: overseas contractor in a reversal of many of the kind

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Speaker 1: of tech stories that we think and know about, whether

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Speaker 1: it's in movies and TV and video games of animators

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Speaker 1: that are based somewhere overseas because they're cheaper and then

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Speaker 1: you can just lay them off. Well that's the thing

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Speaker 1: that happened here to these American contractors.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we found outvia LinkedIn faddyus. Sessa, who is a

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Speaker 3: game director that worked on Budgets and sat and staff, said,

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Speaker 3: this is such a weird industry and my stellar talent

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Speaker 3: team just helped deliver an incredibly successful new franchise in

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Speaker 3: Marvel Rivals for Netty's Games. And we're just laid off.

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Speaker 3: We also leveled designer Jack Burrows confirmed the layoff. WELP,

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Speaker 3: just got laid off for my job. Was enormous pleasure

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Speaker 3: to work with my American coworkers who joined me in

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Speaker 3: this sad culling. Turns out the size of the US

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Speaker 3: team was actually it was six people, but as noted,

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Speaker 3: Hit Natties has twenty nine, one hundred and twenty eight employees,

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Speaker 3: so it felt like a huge hit here because we

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Speaker 3: were like, wait, Marvel Rivals is so successful, been the

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Speaker 3: grand scheme of things.

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Speaker 4: It was not a huge.

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Speaker 3: Set of layoffs, but it is a classic video game situation,

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Speaker 3: classic tech spased situation.

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Speaker 1: Really, up next, we're gonna speak to your friendly neighborhood

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Speaker 1: Spider Man showrunner Jeff Trammel is just a wonderful guy

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Speaker 1: and he's gonna provide some great insights into a really

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Speaker 1: fun series, including dropping some really interesting news about season two.

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Speaker 1: Jeff tremil back.

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Speaker 3: After this, Hey, Jeff, thanks so much for joining us

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Speaker 3: on the X ray vision with excited to have you

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Speaker 3: here with big fans of your friendly neighbhood.

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Speaker 5: Spider Man as our discord.

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Speaker 3: I just want to start seeing as we're talking to

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Speaker 3: you so soon after the show has ended. How you

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Speaker 3: feeling now the first season is out there and people

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Speaker 3: have watched it, and you're getting those responses.

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Speaker 6: Back, feeling great? I mean, I think there was a

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Speaker 6: you know, a little trepidation with the show from fans,

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Speaker 6: which I get. You know, there's a very high bar

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Speaker 6: for Spider Man series. But I like to think that we,

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Speaker 6: you know, we're able to kind of meet that. People

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Speaker 6: were excited about seeing the show, and I think so

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Speaker 6: many people have messaged me about how much they've loved it.

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Speaker 6: So it's been really cool to kind of see that

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Speaker 6: gradual rollout and people really start to appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the genesis of this show,

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Speaker 1: how you arrived at the approach and the look and

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Speaker 1: the feel and the tone of it, because it really

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Speaker 1: is such a singular take on Spider Man, something that's

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Speaker 1: very hard to do after what has it been sixty

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Speaker 1: years of Spider Man. Uh yeah, tell us about it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So, like, very early on, we kind of had

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Speaker 6: a very core concept of what the show could be,

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Speaker 6: so and it was kind of evolving that out to like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: what's something that would be exciting for me as a fan,

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Speaker 6: what's something that's exciting for the studio, but also just

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Speaker 6: like if you're watching and you're a longtime fan, what's

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Speaker 6: something that's going to kind of prepeak your interest as

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Speaker 6: well as like if you're completely new to Spider Man,

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Speaker 6: what's going to get you to stay here? So for me,

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Speaker 6: it was like finding that mixture of I'm a longtime fan,

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Speaker 6: I would love this, whether that's the look, whether that's

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Speaker 6: the feel of the characters, whether that's you know, just

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Speaker 6: changing who Peter interacts with just to kind of like

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Speaker 6: immediately change his worldview, or you know, being able to

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Speaker 6: pull in newer characters, and you know, honestly just more

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Speaker 6: diverse characters as well, because you know, coming from Creak

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Speaker 6: of the Creek, I want to make sure that our

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Speaker 6: show has that representation and making sure that people can

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Speaker 6: kind of see themselves in the characters. So and honestly

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Speaker 6: became like, you know, we have this character like Lonnie

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Speaker 6: Lincoln who's very attached to Spider Man Cannon, but still

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Speaker 6: out of room to build in a character for him

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Speaker 6: even beyond what we know or where we know he

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Speaker 6: ends up in the comics. And then on that same foot,

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Speaker 6: being able to take a character like Nico Monoru who

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Speaker 6: is not as vintage of a character, but still be

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Speaker 6: able to like take her introduce her to a new

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Speaker 6: audience as well as like a Pearl as well as

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Speaker 6: like a reinvention on a Harry or Norman. So honestly,

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Speaker 6: it's a lot of like kind of mixing and matching

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Speaker 6: of just kind of like classic elements and new fun twists.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad you brought Lonnie because that was

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I was dming you about it

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Speaker 3: like that was like a seriously, in my opinion, like

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Speaker 3: a seriously incredible arc that you crafted for him. Like

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Speaker 3: in our disc we had people saying, I don't want

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Speaker 3: to see where this goes. I know who Lonnie is,

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Speaker 3: Like this is you know, we're going to get this

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Speaker 3: story about the reality of being a kid in New

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Speaker 3: York and gangs. But you guys managed to take that

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Speaker 3: on a really unexpected journey and end up with Lonnie

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Speaker 3: and Peter still working together. Could you talk a little

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Speaker 3: bit about Lonnie and his journey.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean Lonnie is a character that we really,

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Speaker 6: I really wanted to dig into, and I think one

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Speaker 6: of the great kind of like pros of the show

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Speaker 6: is that everyone is coming to it for better or worse,

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Speaker 6: with a oh I know how this goes, and being

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Speaker 6: able to like live have that expectation and play with it,

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Speaker 6: I think, and keep you on your toes. It's one

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Speaker 6: of the greatest strengths of the show because again, like

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Speaker 6: I've been saying this all you know for weeks now,

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Speaker 6: but like the second you hear like Peter's working with Norman,

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Speaker 6: your brain is like, Nope, that's not going don't do it,

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Speaker 6: don't but you know, knowing that and then still trying

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Speaker 6: to like, Okay, well, what can we do to make

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Speaker 6: sure that, like you aren't constantly suspicious of Norman, you know,

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Speaker 6: like they could be a suspicion there, but like maybe

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Speaker 6: you don't know this dude. You're coming up with preconceived notions.

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Speaker 6: Maybe it's not so bad. And the same for Lannie,

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Speaker 6: Like I think even more so with Lonnie because we've

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Speaker 6: never really dug into his past to this level. So

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Speaker 6: the fact that you can like see this guy immediately

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Speaker 6: kind of like take one glance at him through Peter's

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Speaker 6: lenses and be like, well, he's tall, he's popular, he's

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Speaker 6: with the girl, I like, this guy.

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Speaker 5: Sucks, and you're.

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Speaker 6: Like, no, actually, this guy is actually really dope. Please

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Speaker 6: don't become what you've become in the comics. So being

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Speaker 6: able to kind of again play with those expectations has

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Speaker 6: made it really I think engaging, because it would have

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Speaker 6: been I think it would have been really easy to

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Speaker 6: just like make him Tombstone and the audience not care,

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Speaker 6: but to kind of like get the audience on board

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Speaker 6: of like, no, please don't go down that path, and

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Speaker 6: then to see that but then it's still not go

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Speaker 6: the way you think it's going to go. I think

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Speaker 6: it's just a really fun twist, and just like I

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Speaker 6: think there's something so cool about that episode nine, like

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Speaker 6: team up and a shot of like the two faces

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Speaker 6: and lighting because they've been on the same path this

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Speaker 6: whole time. Just very different, you know, variables along the way.

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Speaker 1: There's so many wonderful spins on characters, as you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that people are very conversant with. You mentioned Lannie, of

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Speaker 1: course Peter, but there's a take on doctor Octopus here

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Speaker 1: that I think is so dashing and charming and like

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Speaker 1: wonderfully modern as well. The Scorpion is more brutal and

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Speaker 1: scary than I can remember him being tell us about

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Speaker 1: how you took what you looked at and saw his

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Speaker 1: classic elements and how you decided to add these little dashes.

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Speaker 6: You know, Honestly, we can lean a lot on our

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Speaker 6: visual elements for that classic look, and that's been awesome,

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Speaker 6: like having our team led by Leonardo Romero, who is

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Speaker 6: just phenomenal, but like, yeah, being able to take like

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Speaker 6: the classic doc doc look with like the Eric Larson

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Speaker 6: starbursts on the glasses and like uh sunbursts, uh star wars.

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Speaker 5: Yes with the candies. Yeah, but yeah, being.

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Speaker 6: Able to like take a character that looks so classic

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Speaker 6: and then tweak him a bit so he's a little

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Speaker 6: more uh debonair. He's a little more you know. And

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Speaker 6: that's the thing too, like we really wanted to dig

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Speaker 6: into these characters and make sure that they don't feel

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Speaker 6: really one note and they feel multi layer, like oh,

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Speaker 6: I think you know, we all kind of expect what

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Speaker 6: we see when we see OC to kind of be like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: he's annoyed. He's annoyed all the time. He's constantly and

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Speaker 6: to a degree he is, but also like he's got

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Speaker 6: that salesmanship of like, oh Meela's here, looking for tech. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: and like that was a thing where we dug into like, okay,

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Speaker 6: what if we kind of treat him like, knowing what

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Speaker 6: now that we're at the end of the season, knowing

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Speaker 6: that he used to work with Norman and they split.

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Speaker 6: What's the thing that he thinks Norman has that he doesn't.

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Speaker 6: Maybe it's a salesmanship attitude. Maybe it said used car

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Speaker 6: salesman kind of vibe. So he's trying to turn that

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Speaker 6: on when he's you know, selling his wares, and then

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Speaker 6: the second his person is gone that he bought the stuff,

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Speaker 6: he drops it. And to me, I think that's fun

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Speaker 6: because it again shows how doc Ock and Norman complimented

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Speaker 6: each other, like one of them was the salesman, one

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Speaker 6: of them was the scientists, and without them each having

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Speaker 6: that other part, they each kind of have to overcompensate

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Speaker 6: to kind of fill the void that the other one fell.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of Norman, you know, there has to be and

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Speaker 3: as Jason mentioned things that comics readers are conversant in

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Speaker 3: that has long been a conversation about Norman and his

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Speaker 3: waves that he's drawn with in the comic, And here

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Speaker 3: we get black Norman kind of cininically with his culturally

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Speaker 3: appropriate hairstyle and his delightful son Harry. So could you

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Speaker 3: talk a little bit about that choice, because the way

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Speaker 3: you bring Norman to life in this me and Jason

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Speaker 3: in those middle episodes when we were talking about we

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Speaker 3: really were like, hey, maybe he's benevolent, maybe he's maybe

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Speaker 3: maybe in his universe, Norman really doesn't have machinations.

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Speaker 4: So could you talk a little bit about that balance

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Speaker 4: and kind.

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Speaker 3: Of holding the truth about Norman till that last couple

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Speaker 3: of episodes.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, honestly, the Norman of it all was

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Speaker 6: a mixture of you wanting to shake things up, you

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Speaker 6: wanting to like, okay, again, if we're going to introduce Norman,

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Speaker 6: you're gonna come with so many preconceived notions, especially if

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Speaker 6: he is like exactly how you've always seen it. So

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Speaker 6: even just changing that, I think visually you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: well I know the name Norman Osborne, but this guy

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Speaker 6: is a completely different guy. So I think that helps.

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Speaker 6: It's also, you know, going back to my previous statement

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Speaker 6: about like wanting New York to feel a bit more real,

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Speaker 6: a bit more like accurate to kind of modern day,

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Speaker 6: and I think like being able to come tomorrow and

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Speaker 6: be like, hey, I'd be down to like gender swap

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Speaker 6: these characters if you guys are or race swap these characters.

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Speaker 6: Is that something I can do with Norman and them

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Speaker 6: to immediately be on board them like yeah, sure.

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Speaker 4: Like for many years they're like, well this makes sense.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, oh good, he brought it up.

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Speaker 6: No, but no, like I think so many things like

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Speaker 6: the same way that we're able to like lean on

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Speaker 6: doc Ock or lean on like a classic Scorpion and

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Speaker 6: then kind of ratchet up. This was the other version

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Speaker 6: where it's like, Okay, we can take elements from Norman,

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Speaker 6: but at the end of the day, this is a

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Speaker 6: different guy. So am I unfairly judging this guy based

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Speaker 6: on the actions of another Norman Osborne? So honestly, that

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Speaker 6: I think was the kind of just having that and

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Speaker 6: knowing that's what we wanted to do made sense to

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Speaker 6: also kind of change up Norman because so much of

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Speaker 6: our world is different, and then extending that to Harry

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Speaker 6: and then just like digging into how it's Harry different

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Speaker 6: in this world. And one of the things that I

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Speaker 6: thought was cool is like, Okay, well he's a super

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Speaker 6: popular kid in this world. What does that mean for him,

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Speaker 6: does that mean he's kind of very closed off? And

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Speaker 6: if so, like he's going to value having Peter as

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Speaker 6: a friend. Because what I didn't want to do is like, Okay,

399
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Speaker 6: here's Harry and here's Peter and here's Norman, and they're

400
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Speaker 6: both fighting for Norman's love, and it's like this Norman, he.

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Speaker 5: This is his son. He's like, ooh, new son.

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Speaker 6: So like even that, you know, it was like, okay, well,

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Speaker 6: if we're not doing that, what do they appreciate about

404
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 6: each other? And I think Harry appreciates something about Peter,

405
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Speaker 6: even beyond the power. It's just that he's a nice,

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Speaker 6: likable guy that is seen as well liked and has

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Speaker 6: a community that like Harry doesn't have. And on the

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Speaker 6: other hand, Peter is very much like Harry's super cool,

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Speaker 6: he's popular, he's kind of Debonair's wild, He's all these

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Speaker 6: things that I don't have. So they both have something

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Speaker 6: to appreciate the same way that, like Norman and Atto

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Speaker 6: each kind of could take something from one another, Peter

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Speaker 6: and Harry could theoretically have a similar.

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Speaker 1: Bump another Norman question, because I love this moment. As

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Speaker 1: Rosie mentioned, you know, we spent a lot of the

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Speaker 1: series after the introduction of Norman being like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 1: he's yeah, maybe he's good, Like he seems like a

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Speaker 1: really cool guy, and it is not.

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Speaker 4: When Norman is so real.

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Speaker 1: It's like a partnership. It seems beneficial to everybody, and

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Speaker 1: it's really not until you know there's inklings. But it's

422
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Speaker 1: not until he gives Peter the advice that with great

423
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: power comes great respect. Then you're like, oh shit, tell

424
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: us about that moment and that really wonderful inversion of

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Speaker 1: like the classic Spider Man philosophy.

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Speaker 6: Knowing that we weren't going to do the kind of

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Speaker 6: like classic Uncle Ben's story, that opened it up immediately.

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Speaker 6: So it was like, okay, well, eventually Peter needs to

429
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Speaker 6: hear the line, right, you know, everyone everyone wants it,

430
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Speaker 6: everyone's craving it. And as we were like going down

431
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Speaker 6: the story, going to the path, it was like, okay, well,

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Speaker 6: you know, it makes sense to Norman's a lot in

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Speaker 6: a lot of ways. It's mentor it makes sense for

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Speaker 6: Norman deliver it. But Norman wouldn't say this, Like it

435
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 6: would feel forced if Norman said it, and like no

436
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 6: one would be happy if Norman said it. So then

437
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 6: it was like, okay, well, if I'm Norman, if I'm

438
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 6: this guy that's literally like started from nowhere and now

439
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 6: I have one of the tallest buildings in New York

440
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 6: and like this is my company and I've like done

441
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 6: all it takes to kind of like escalate my value

442
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 6: in the eyes of the world. What would I value

443
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 6: the most? And it's clearer than it's respect. So then

444
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 6: it was just like trying to find the verbiage to

445
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 6: find it, and the second like with great power comes

446
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 6: great respect clicked. It was like, Okay, yep, we got it.

447
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 5: The show. The show's done. We figured it out.

448
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 6: But no, like honestly like that, I think that speaks

449
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 6: true to like Norman's entire like journey, and it does

450
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 6: feel like something you believe in. But also we as

451
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 6: the audience are like, that's the You're that's not it.

452
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 6: It's icky, and I don't like it.

453
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're like, we know this is not gonna be good.

454
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 6: Yeah. So like it's also the kind of thing that

455
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 6: like would leave an impact on a young person, let

456
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 6: alone a young hero. So it's like, Okay, you're getting

457
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 6: bad advice at the worst possible time to get it.

458
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 6: What does this mean for Peter. So that was always

459
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 6: like an exciting thing that I really wanted to like

460
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 6: dig into and how that affects Peter, because I didn't

461
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 6: want it to be like, oh, well Norman's bad to

462
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 6: Peter's bad, and it's very like one note. But like

463
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 6: that to me is like you're slowly watching Peter become

464
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 6: more confident and in a lot of ways less confident,

465
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 6: so like Norman catches him at the right time to.

466
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 5: Impart this knowledge in him.

467
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that as well, because we all know

468
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 3: that even though Peter gets that advice from Uncle Ben

469
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 3: in the classics story like Great Power Cone's Great Suppose Billy,

470
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: he still messes up at the beginning and depending on

471
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: the version, allows you know, Uncle Ben to be killed.

472
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 4: So I love that.

473
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 3: Here his moment is that fight with Scorpion where he

474
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: almost goes too far, but then you have Lonnie come

475
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 3: in and say like, that's that's not who you are.

476
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: I love that so much. Another kind of Norman centric

477
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 3: thing that I thought was really cool is my nephew

478
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: is eleven, and he really got into Spider Man through

479
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: obviously the old movies.

480
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 4: He likes weird stuff, so he loves Spider Man.

481
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: Three, but he loves he loves doing the dance, but

482
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: he loves the video games.

483
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: So I've played them pretty extensively with him. It was

484
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 4: really cool to see.

485
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 3: Video game stuff built in here, from the suits to

486
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: the visualization of how you go across New York to

487
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: collecting the little things that you need to that are

488
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 3: impacted by.

489
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: Gamma radiation, etc.

490
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 3: Could you talk a little bit about building that in

491
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 3: and kind of the way that you guys understood that

492
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: for a lot of kids, that is there in was

493
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: actually the games rather than the movies or the comics.

494
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 6: You know, that's a It's funny because so many so

495
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 6: many people on our show are you know, of course

496
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 6: fans of Spidey, and as we've talked about, there's sixty

497
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 6: years of Spidey. So there's like, in a lot of ways,

498
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 6: weird lead no blind spots because everyone is like, oh,

499
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 6: I loved this or I grew up with this version.

500
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 6: I love the games, or I love the films, or

501
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 6: I love Spider Man three.

502
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 5: You know, so what happens.

503
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 6: It becomes a thing where like we're all like, oh,

504
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 6: we should try this thing, or we should do this,

505
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 6: or we should do that, and like, I'm such a

506
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 6: fan of the games as well, it was like it

507
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 6: was kind of a no brainer because it's like they're

508
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 6: fantastic and we can like, really, there's something nice about

509
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 6: being rewarded as a fan for watching a thing and

510
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 6: not in a way where it's like ostracizing to people

511
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 6: that don't get it, but just like a oh, I

512
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 6: picked up on that, you know, whether it's like a

513
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 6: pizza time side at the pizza shop in the first episode,

514
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 6: or whether it's just like the pose that Peter hits

515
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 6: when he scorpion efforts thing is just yeah, that's a

516
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 6: video game holding screen, Like you know, like those things

517
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 6: I think are so even just talking about them like

518
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 6: makes me get goosewomps because it's so it's to me,

519
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 6: like the perfect payoff of I love this character. I

520
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 6: love these stories, and it's not just like referential for

521
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 6: referential sake, but you know, building them into the story

522
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 6: in a way that feels satisfying. Like one of my

523
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 6: favorite ones that I haven't I've seen a few people

524
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 6: talk about, but honestly not a ton is like in

525
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 6: the finale when Peter webs the alien goes, you got

526
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 6: to go Home Man that is from But it's like,

527
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 6: I just love that moment so much, and there's something

528
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 6: so nice about like linking all these characters together through

529
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 6: every incarnation and having the opportunity to do so, because

530
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 6: it's also like in a lot of ways us paying

531
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 6: respect to everything that's come before us. So, I mean,

532
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 6: I feel like I might have answered that question, but.

533
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great to know like all the different Yeah,

534
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: we can feel all the different inspirations. But it's really

535
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 3: lovely when you speak to someone and they're like, oh, yeah, no,

536
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: those were on Papa's It wasn't the fluid.

537
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about the ending, because I found it

538
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: truly a jaw dropper as a time fan of Spidey

539
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: and Spidey stories. And for if anybody has not finished

540
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: Your Friendly Room Spider Man, spoiler.

541
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 7: Stop now, spoiler warning, put your ammas on. Spoiler amas interview. Now,

542
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 7: go finish it and then come back. I'm gonna give

543
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 7: you a three count to get out of here. Three

544
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 7: two one, Okay, here we go. The reveal that Richard

545
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 7: Parker is here, is in this world, that he is

546
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 7: in jail for something opens up so many crazy possibilities.

547
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 7: Tell us about the decision to add Richard Parker to

548
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 7: this story.

549
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 6: So much of this show is you know, same bit different, similar,

550
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 6: bit different, And when I was trying to figure out, like, okay,

551
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 6: what is our season one? What's the story I want

552
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 6: to tell? What's this world? There was something very interesting

553
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 6: to me about like, oh, there's there's something that we

554
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 6: shouldn't know that the character should And for me, I'm like, okay,

555
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 6: well we aren't doing the typical Uncle Ben moment. We're

556
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 6: taking that off screen and then we're going to feel

557
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 6: Ben's kind of like guidance through Peter throughout the season.

558
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 6: But also like there's something so interesting to me about

559
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 6: like digging into a world where like Peter is Spider Man,

560
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 6: but there's character, there's a character around that's never around

561
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 6: when he's Spider Man, because what does that mean for

562
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 6: like just you know the intersection of it. So then

563
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 6: it became like, okay, well Richard will be really interesting.

564
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 6: And then it was just kind of like figuring out

565
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 6: a story that really worked for that character and then

566
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 6: kind of like finding ways to hint at it without

567
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 6: saying it outright so it doesn't feel like, oh my god,

568
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 6: what happened this guy's here, and like there's little moments

569
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 6: like in episode six where they're talking about their families

570
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 6: and Peter purposely says my mom passed away a while

571
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 6: ago and doesn't say my parents. And I'm like, okay,

572
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 6: that's a little if you catch it cool, if you don't, like,

573
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 6: you're not going to overthink it either.

574
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 4: You're just kind of exactly you start to find this exactly.

575
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 6: So I love having Richard out there. I'm really excited

576
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 6: to dig into Richard, and I think it's a fun,

577
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 6: fun place.

578
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the discord.

579
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 4: The discord was going crazy. Okay, just before you go,

580
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 4: you just drop.

581
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: The Gwen Stacy and Spider Gwen images as a tease

582
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: for season two, could you just do like a little

583
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: fun ties, not necessarily about Gwen, but about where these

584
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: characters are going to go next and kind of where

585
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: you guys are at on season two.

586
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 6: We're pretty deep into season two. I know a few

587
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 6: weeks ago, Brad Wonderbaum mentioned in an interview that, like

588
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 6: where near the end of writing, we've already started getting

589
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 6: a little animation back, so you know, the wait for

590
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 6: season two shouldn't be as long as season one was.

591
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 6: We're kind of like building the world. But even that,

592
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 6: we're like continuing to build upon and push even further

593
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 6: in terms of the Gwen of it all. She is

594
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 6: in the show and that's kind of all.

595
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 5: I feel comfortable, well perfect, It's true. Come find Yeah,

596
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: I'll say this.

597
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 6: Everyone was asking me where did that spider go in

598
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 6: the first episode. I think now we have an idea.

599
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 5: For the.

600
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: Exciting, exciting side. Well, Jeff t showrunner, your friendly neighborhood

601
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: spider Man. Watch it now on Disney Plus. Thank you

602
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. It is wonderful to have

603
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: you here.

604
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 5: Thank you guys for having me.

605
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 4: It was so great to have you.

606
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: Where can people find you online, Jeff if they want

607
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: to follow you, and you will if you.

608
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 6: Want to follow me. I am on some social Media's

609
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 6: at mister Jeff Trammel. Two f's, two m's, two l's.

610
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

611
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 6: Please, if you you know, reach out to me. Tell

612
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 6: me how much you enjoy the show. Please don't yell

613
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 6: at me about thanks.

614
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: You every day.

615
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: If you've got nice things to say, like many and

616
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: not this quote, do Jeff.

617
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: Let me on Tuesday, it's our first book club. Wednesday,

618
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: we continue our weekly coverage Severance. Yes, We're doing that weekly.

619
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: Send us your theories, let us know what you think

620
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: Luman is up to. And then on Thursday, the Road

621
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: to Born Again continues with the first season recap of

622
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: Daredevil season one. Formerly on Netflix, you can find it

623
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: now on Disney Plus. That's it for this episode. Thanks

624
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: for listening well. But x ray Vision is hosted by Jasoncepcion.

625
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 4: And Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

626
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kaufman.

627
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

628
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 4: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan.

629
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: And Fay Wax.

630
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

631
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

632
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Saul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

633
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 3: Heidi Our disc called Moderate th