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Speaker 1: Look at the issues that just keeps coming up again

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Speaker 1: and again and again and again, and it doesn't come

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Speaker 1: up or it isn't talked about sufficiently for how important

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Speaker 1: it is to the country. Is the role major corporations

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Speaker 1: in this country, the influence they exert on day to

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Speaker 1: day life, and if you think about it, it is profound.

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Speaker 1: First of all, they are a major employer. So let's

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Speaker 1: say Fortune five hundred companies decide we're not going to

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Speaker 1: hire black people. Well, that's going to close. That's an

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Speaker 1: avenue that is shut off to black people. But what

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Speaker 1: if instead they said we're not going to hire conservatives,

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Speaker 1: or we're not going to hire military veterans, or we're

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Speaker 1: not going to hire men, or we're not going to

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Speaker 1: hire Christians. As an employer, that is a massive influence

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Speaker 1: on American culture. But it's so much more than that.

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Speaker 1: They are not only an employer, they are a client.

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Speaker 1: Major corporations, particularly retail corporations, spend a lot of money

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Speaker 1: on marketing and advertising and brand building and as an

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Speaker 1: outlet of that and increasingly digital to include social media.

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Speaker 1: So you've got companies that are spending money with Twitter

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Speaker 1: and Facebook, and for instance, there now I think it's

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Speaker 1: one hundred companies now have pulled their their spend with Twitter.

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Speaker 1: You pull your spend with Twitter, you get Elon's attention.

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Speaker 1: Because that's a massive way that this play. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's a large percentage of how these companies, these platforms

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Speaker 1: make their money. I have committed to spending more time

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Speaker 1: talking about how these companies crush the spirit of their employees.

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Speaker 1: And we found a story. And I didn't do this

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Speaker 1: sooner because we had the election to deal with. The

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Speaker 1: New York Post had a piece on October twenty fourth

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Speaker 1: that was an excerpt of the book. And the book

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Speaker 1: is called Levi's Unbuttoned The Woke Bob took my job

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Speaker 1: but gave me my voice. It's about a woman named

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say. That spelled se Y if you want to

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Speaker 1: look this up for yourself. She wrote this book. Did

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say? She was on track to become the first

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Speaker 1: woman CEO of Levi, Strauss and Company. Pretty big deal

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Speaker 1: considering how long that company's been around. And my wife

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Speaker 1: being on the board of directors of a fortune five

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Speaker 1: hundred company and a former Secretary of State of Texas

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Speaker 1: and a law firm partner and all those sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you have to be not only smart

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Speaker 1: and smarter than the dudes, but typically tougher than the

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Speaker 1: dudes to make it to the top as a woman

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Speaker 1: in corporate America. It's true, it's tough, it's not easy.

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Speaker 1: And she was the president of the Levi's brand. This

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Speaker 1: is a big deal. And this is not something you

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Speaker 1: fall into lightly. It's not something you show up on

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Speaker 1: the first day. You put your career into this. This

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Speaker 1: is a commitment. But as we will discuss with her,

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Speaker 1: she's our guest. As we will discuss with her, she

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Speaker 1: was silenced and she didn't go oh quietly. That's the

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Speaker 1: problem with tough women. You want tough women to lead

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Speaker 1: your organization. But when you do a tough woman wrong,

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Speaker 1: hell hath no fury and Jennifer say is our guest.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you for having me. I love the intro.

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Speaker 1: Now, before we get to your professional career, you've done

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Speaker 1: all this while in addition, and this has to be

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Speaker 1: the hardest part of your career life experiences energy, exerted frustration,

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Speaker 1: emotional distress. You're also the mother of four children.

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Speaker 2: I am, and wait till you hear the range of ages.

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Speaker 2: They go from twenty two to six all the way

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Speaker 2: down to six.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay, well, let's start with the professional

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Speaker 1: stuff that is the subject of the book, and then

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Speaker 1: I want to get into your personal life. We have

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Speaker 1: dedicated some time to you this evening because I think

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Speaker 1: this could be a wonderful opportunity for us to see

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Speaker 1: inside the belly of the beast, a sort of whistleblower,

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Speaker 1: first hand perspective from an embedded not journalist, but a

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Speaker 1: first person player. All right, so tell me a little

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Speaker 1: bit about why you chose to write the book. Levi's unbuttoned.

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Speaker 1: The woke mob took my job but gave me my voice.

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Speaker 1: You knew that not everybody would like that you did this.

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Speaker 1: You knew that some would argue this was sour grapes.

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Speaker 1: Why do this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know, the long and short of the

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Speaker 2: story is in March twenty twenty, when lockdowns and school

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Speaker 2: closures happened, I was outspoken about it, and I was

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Speaker 2: focused on the impact to children in public schools in

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Speaker 2: the city where I lived, San Francisco, public schools were

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Speaker 2: closed for eighteen months, and I was very outspoken about

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Speaker 2: it on social media. I led rallies to get the

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Speaker 2: schools open, and I was repeatedly told over the course

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Speaker 2: of two years at the company that I needed to

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Speaker 2: stop doing that, all while my peers who were telling

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Speaker 2: me this, and my boss, the CEO, were sending their

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Speaker 2: children to open in person private schools. My kids went

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Speaker 2: to public, but I wasn't just speaking for my children.

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Speaker 2: I was speaking for the fifty thousand public school students

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco and those across the country. You know.

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Speaker 2: I was alarmed by the harms to the children, of course,

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Speaker 2: and we're seeing that all played out. But as I

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Speaker 2: was censored and pushed repeatedly to stop talking about it,

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Speaker 2: despite the hypocrisy that they were sending their own children

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Speaker 2: to school, I became more and more alarmed by the

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Speaker 2: censorship and by this inability to debate issues that matter,

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Speaker 2: that are of critical importance, not just to our children,

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Speaker 2: but to all of us, which you know that ability

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Speaker 2: debate is really, you know, the bedrock of our democracy

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Speaker 2: and it's the only way we can find truth, really,

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Speaker 2: And so eventually, after two years of speaking out on

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Speaker 2: this subject, I was told there wasn't a place for

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Speaker 2: me at the company any longer. I wasn't lying to

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Speaker 2: be CEO. I was. You know, there were others, but

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Speaker 2: I was. I was probably first in mine, I would say,

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Speaker 2: as told to me by the CEO. I'd been at

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Speaker 2: a company for close to twenty three years, but because

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Speaker 2: of my views and my outspokenness, I was told, you know,

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Speaker 2: they were too problematic, the things I said, even though

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Speaker 2: they were true, and we all know they're true now,

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Speaker 2: and I just couldn't assume that position, and therefore couldn't

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Speaker 2: hold my existing position either, because it was a quote

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Speaker 2: unquote feeder role for CEO, meaning you know, the succession role.

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Speaker 2: And so I was offered severance, which I did not accept.

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Speaker 2: I because severance comes. I was offered a million dollars

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Speaker 2: in severance, but that comes indisputably with a non disclosure agreement,

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Speaker 2: and signing a non disclosure agreement to keep me quiet

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Speaker 2: just felt like more censorship and I would not abide,

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Speaker 2: and so I very publicly resigned in February of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two with an op ed on Barry Wise's Common

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Speaker 2: Sense sub deck, exposing the hypocrisy and the censorship and

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Speaker 2: the lack of inclusiveness, you know, for a company and

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Speaker 2: a lot of companies are touting all their inclusiveness to today.

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Speaker 2: We ran a campaign led by me that said, you know,

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Speaker 2: urged people to use their voices to stand up for

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Speaker 2: the things they cared about. But apparently that did not

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Speaker 2: include me, because my view was deemed as an al

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Speaker 2: right conspiracy theory, despite the fact that it's now true

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Speaker 2: and we know it's true. I said, it's too early,

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Speaker 2: and so the reason I wrote the book, the reason

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Speaker 2: I didn't sign a non disclosure agreement, was so that

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Speaker 2: I could write the book and so that I could

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Speaker 2: talk to you, because I agree with you one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: This is a really dangerous situation we find ourselves in

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Speaker 2: for a million reasons, but these a million reasons. But

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Speaker 2: these well companies are essentially acting as arms of the government,

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Speaker 2: either directly like Twitter we've seen sort of taking its

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Speaker 2: cues from the government to banish people which hopefully elon

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Speaker 2: you know, he's starting to let them back on, or

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Speaker 2: less directly by just outink folks that go against the

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Speaker 2: approved narrative issued by the government in left leaning cities

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Speaker 2: and states at least during COVID and supported and furthered

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Speaker 2: by the media. I want I wanted to expose it

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Speaker 2: from the inside. There hasn't been a first person account

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Speaker 2: of this from the inside of corporate America.

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Speaker 1: Just just want to say, let me hold you right there.

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Speaker 1: We're going to continue our conversation with Jennifer Say. The

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Speaker 1: book is Levi's Unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job,

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Speaker 1: but gave me my voice.

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Speaker 2: This is the Michael Bay Show.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say is our guest. She was the president of

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Speaker 1: the Levi's brand and on track to be the first

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Speaker 1: woman to be CEO of Levi Strausen Company. She opposed

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Speaker 1: the closure of San Francisco's public schools at the height

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Speaker 1: of the pandemic. She spoke out and spoke up. She said,

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Speaker 1: that's not right. You know you other people, your kids

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Speaker 1: are going to private schools, but these public schools need

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Speaker 1: to be open so the kids can learn. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, the data is out now and we're only

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Speaker 1: going to see this more and more as this time trend.

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Speaker 1: When when this when the tale of this thing continues,

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Speaker 1: you're seeing that kids that didn't go to school, that's

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Speaker 1: that that did school from home. We're seeing developmental lags.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing that children that had to sit behind a

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Speaker 1: mask Also for the record, speech pathologists are saying that

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Speaker 1: their business is booming because kids learn through mimicry. And

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Speaker 1: when they didn't have a teacher to teach them how

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Speaker 1: to talk, and they couldn't see anybody, that was a problem.

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Speaker 1: Kids didn't get to socialize. Isn't it funny the same

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Speaker 1: public education industry cartel that told us that kids shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be homeschooled because they need socialization, how quickly they turned

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Speaker 1: that and said, yeah, we don't want to show up

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Speaker 1: to work, let's close down because of the pandemic. When

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say spoke out against that, she found the doors

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Speaker 1: closed to her at Levi's, and rather than continue on

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Speaker 1: a very high power, high paying career, she chose to

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Speaker 1: walk away and write her story. And that is Levi's unbuttoned.

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Speaker 1: The woke mob took my job, but gave me my

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Speaker 1: voice when you left. Did you ever regret it?

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Speaker 2: I have my moments. I don't want to be there.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't be there and sacrifice my voice and my integrity.

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Speaker 2: But my life is unrecognizable from what I thought it

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Speaker 2: would be. Two years ago, I left my home city

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Speaker 2: of San Francisco, which i'd lived in for thirty three years.

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Speaker 2: I don't have the hundreds, if not thousands of colleagues

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Speaker 2: that I've spent time with every day. I've lost many

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Speaker 2: friends and even some family members, and so I certainly

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Speaker 2: have my moment of you know, what have I done?

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Speaker 2: But I know there was no other path forward for me.

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Speaker 2: This is what I had to do. I couldn't stare

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Speaker 2: the truth in the face and not speak it, no

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Speaker 2: matter how many people told me that I couldn't. And

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you you know a moment that really sort

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Speaker 2: of lit me up internally, when I was still at Levi's,

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Speaker 2: was our head of HR saying to me privately that

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Speaker 2: she agreed with everything I was saying, but I still

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Speaker 2: couldn't say it. And that is that is you know this,

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Speaker 2: this is of the problem, And that gets it what

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Speaker 2: you were talking about in terms of the chilling effects.

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Speaker 2: People watched what was happening to me publicly on social media.

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Speaker 2: I was being vilified and demonized as like this, all right,

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Speaker 2: lunatic who wanted to kill children. I was called terrible, terrible, unemployable, names, racist, eugenesis,

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Speaker 2: everything you can think of. And so who was going

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Speaker 2: to join me, even if they also believed that schools

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Speaker 2: should be open. No one and so you know, as

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Speaker 2: it pertains to COVID specifically, but so many issues, there

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Speaker 2: was this manufactured consensus because anyone who disagreed or dissented,

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Speaker 2: including very reputable, renowned doctors, they were censored and silenced

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Speaker 2: and vilified. And I just wouldn't allow that. I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: allow that to silence me. And I do believe in

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Speaker 2: my heart of hearts, even on my dark days when

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Speaker 2: I questioned what I've done, I believe that courage begets courage,

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Speaker 2: and that a cohort will build with time and the

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Speaker 2: truth will be spoken. That the truth always went out

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Speaker 2: in the end. I cling tight to that, and I

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Speaker 2: will not be silent when you spoke about It's just

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Speaker 2: when you when you spoke out against you.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me let me finish it. When you've spoke

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Speaker 1: out against the closing of the San Francisco Public schools,

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Speaker 1: how did you do that and what was your argument?

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Speaker 2: So I started doing it on social media. I started

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Speaker 2: in the sort of Facebook realm, but ended up arguing

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Speaker 2: with friends and family, so I hopped over to Twitter.

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Speaker 2: I had very few followers at the time, but it

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Speaker 2: built over time. I cited data. I read the data

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Speaker 2: that kids were very unlikely to have adverse out outcomes,

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Speaker 2: they were less likely to spread it than adults. I

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Speaker 2: read the CDC's pre pandemic playbook, which said schools should

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Speaker 2: never be closed for more than a few weeks, even

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Speaker 2: with fatality rates much much higher than COVID. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I clicked every link to read the actual data sets,

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Speaker 2: not just the you know, the headlines. And then eventually

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Speaker 2: I began to write op eds and I led rallies

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco in the fall and winter of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and I appeared on local news, and I should

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Speaker 2: mention I never identified myself as the president of Levi's.

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Speaker 2: I was just a mom of four, so I was

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Speaker 2: very clear I was not speaking on behalf of the company. Certainly,

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Speaker 2: it's easy enough to find out. All you had to

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Speaker 2: do was, you know, google me. But I didn't identify

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Speaker 2: myself as such in my social media profiles. And eventually

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Speaker 2: I was invited on Fox News in the spring of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, on Laura Ingram's show, and that really

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Speaker 2: just incensed the mob, you know, employees as well as

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Speaker 2: the social media mob. And while many folks even internally agreed.

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Speaker 2: There was nothing I said at that point that they

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Speaker 2: disagreed with. Schools had been closed for over a year.

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Speaker 2: At this point, the frustration was growing. My crime was

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Speaker 2: saying it to her. So now I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: there was this guilt by association. I had said it

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Speaker 2: to somebody they found unacceptable and you know, really really disagreeable,

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Speaker 2: and that made me evil.

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Speaker 1: And how did they address the fact that you, as

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Speaker 1: an individual had made this statement and they didn't like it.

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Speaker 1: What was their means of of letting you know their displeasure?

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Speaker 2: Peers were assigned. I got the unfortunate assignment to speak

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Speaker 2: to me privately. That started in the fall of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and continued for another year and a half. The

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Speaker 2: message delivered by the head of corporate communications, human resources,

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Speaker 2: as well as legal and ultimately my boss, the CEO,

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Speaker 2: even a board member, was when you speak, you speak

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Speaker 2: on behalf of the company. So you need to be

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Speaker 2: cognizant and you really need to stop doing this. And

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Speaker 2: my answer was I don't. I'm a citizen. I don't

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Speaker 2: check those rights at the door just because I work here.

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Speaker 2: One might argue, in such a visible position of influence

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Speaker 2: that I need to be more careful. I reject that,

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Speaker 2: you know. And frankly, if somebody like me, a well liked,

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Speaker 2: you know, beloved employee with influence can be ousted for

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Speaker 2: saying a true thing, then we're all at risk. And

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Speaker 2: do we believe that every employee needs to hold their

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Speaker 2: tongue and not stand up for what they believe in,

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Speaker 2: not say what they think outside of work just because.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, John, let me interrupt you, because I have

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Speaker 1: about a minute and a half and I have I

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Speaker 1: want to pursue two lines of questions here. The first

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Speaker 1: one is, well, let me I tell you what. The

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Speaker 1: second one, which we'll get to in the next segment,

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Speaker 1: is do that how have they reacted when officials within

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Speaker 1: the company have ever had an opinion on anything else

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Speaker 1: in the past, And I'll get to that. But the

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Speaker 1: first one is sort of ask folks to consider for

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Speaker 1: a moment. It's not a questions to statement. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: like to know what people who are professionally very successful

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Speaker 1: feel about issues of the day? Lord knows every Hollywood actor,

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Speaker 1: every musician, every influencer. We know Kim Kardashian's opinion on everything,

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Speaker 1: and Kanye West and well not anymore. But every every

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Speaker 1: famous person, person's opinion is blasted at us daily. And

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Speaker 1: that's perfectly fine until that opinion runs contrary to the

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Speaker 1: woke mob. And that is the reason the book is

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Speaker 1: called Levi's Unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job, but

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Speaker 1: gave me my voice. Now, folks, we're going to continue

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Speaker 1: our conversation with Jennifer Say. This is longer than we

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Speaker 1: generally devote to an interview, but it's because we don't

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Speaker 1: get many folks who are this high up in major

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Speaker 1: American corporations, especially retailers who are the worst about this

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Speaker 1: that they're so afraid of the woke mob because they're

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Speaker 1: so afraid of being boycotted. And ail and gas company

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Speaker 1: can say, oh hell, we can sell our all to

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Speaker 1: you don't want to buy it, We'll sell it to Europe.

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Speaker 1: But retailers are so scared of the left, and especially

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Speaker 1: when you sell products to young people. Young people are

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Speaker 1: off and liberal for her. For us to have this

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Speaker 1: opportunity is very special and we're going to make the

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Speaker 1: most of it. We'll continue our conversation with Jennifer Say.

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Speaker 1: Coming up to Michael Barry Show. We are talking to

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say. She is the former president of the Levi's brand.

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Speaker 1: She was on track to become the first woman CEO

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Speaker 1: of Levi Straussing Company and CEO of Levi Strausing Company.

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Speaker 1: That's a big job. That's not the sort of thing

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Speaker 1: somebody throws away lightly. But when she spoke out against

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Speaker 1: the closing of the San Francisco Public schools, the company

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Speaker 1: said no, no, no, no, no, no no. The woke mob

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Speaker 1: says that we have to close the schools and wear

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Speaker 1: the mask and get the vacs and it's COVID and

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Speaker 1: we're all who cares if the kids ever go to

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Speaker 1: school again. And for her to have an independent opinion,

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Speaker 1: whatever that opinion may be, whether you agree with her

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Speaker 1: opinion or not, that was unacceptable to the company, and

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Speaker 1: they made life miserable for her. And they offered her

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Speaker 1: a chance to leave and sign a non disclosure and

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Speaker 1: not tell her story, and she said, no, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to sign a non disclosure. I'm going to tell

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Speaker 1: the world what's going on. Because bigger than COVID, which

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Speaker 1: will come and go, how the woke mob, how they

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Speaker 1: keep control of people, how they manage to silence dissent.

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Speaker 1: You will think and say what we tell you to

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Speaker 1: think and say it's very Orwellian, Jennifer. We talked about

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Speaker 1: you speaking out as a person and why that's important

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Speaker 1: whatever your job may be. But what does Levi's have

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Speaker 1: or did they have? Did the corporation levi Ostrausen Company

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Speaker 1: have a policy on employees speaking out on issues unrelated

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Speaker 1: to blue jeans?

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Speaker 2: No, I never signed anything. There was no policy about

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Speaker 2: what you could or couldn't say on social media, about

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Speaker 2: what protests you could attend or not attend. And I

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Speaker 2: have been outspoken about politics, and I should be clear

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Speaker 2: I came from the left. I would now call myself,

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Speaker 2: you know, an independent voter or unaffiliated. But I had

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Speaker 2: been very outspoken and when those the were considered acceptable

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Speaker 2: because they were of the left, that was fine. I

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Speaker 2: could talk about candidates, I could talk about causes, that

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Speaker 2: was fine. So this is clearly a case of viewpoint discrimination.

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Speaker 1: Well, I let that hang in the air for a moment,

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Speaker 1: not because I'm surprised, but because I want people to understand.

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Speaker 1: You're allowed to speak out if you're the president of Levi's,

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Speaker 1: as long as what you're speaking out about is exactly

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Speaker 1: what every other major corporate executive says, and may or

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Speaker 1: may not believe that is a sense of control, that

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Speaker 1: is a scarecrow effect. You had to go What did

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Speaker 1: the people within the company that were your friends, allies, employees, bosses, colleagues.

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Speaker 1: What was their reaction to what happened to you?

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Speaker 2: I had no allies at the end. And it's important

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Speaker 2: to note that having been there for twenty two and

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Speaker 2: a half years, I had a lot of friends across

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Speaker 2: the decades. But you know, as I continued to speak out,

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Speaker 2: I really had no supporters. People tried to distance themselves

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Speaker 2: from me. A few said, you know, why are you

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Speaker 2: doing this? It's not really worth it. What are you doing?

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Speaker 2: And so I have no contact really with almost anyone.

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Speaker 2: Every once in a while I get a little private

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Speaker 2: DM saying I hope you're okay from one or two.

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Speaker 2: But really I had no support. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: they were stunned that I did what I did, because

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Speaker 2: here's the thing, I broke the pact. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: this whole thing around well capitalism. It's all a lie,

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Speaker 2: and as you mentioned, it's an attempt to profit off

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Speaker 2: of millennial and gen z views and their activism. But

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Speaker 2: it's a very cinem full thing. I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of the leaders don't even agree with some of these views,

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Speaker 2: but it provides them cover for the fact that they

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Speaker 2: really just are as greedy as they've always been. But

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Speaker 2: that's unacceptable now. It used to be greed was good.

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Speaker 2: No longer. Now you have to sort of pretend to

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Speaker 2: be this altruist, which we saw happen with Sam Brankman Freed.

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Speaker 2: He eventually got caught because the business fell apart, but

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Speaker 2: he wrapped himself in this cloak of altruism and no

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Speaker 2: and avoided any scrutiny in doing so. I think that's

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Speaker 2: what corporate executives are doing. More broadly, if I threatened

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Speaker 2: to expose that that it would beyond their wildest imagination

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Speaker 2: that I wouldn't accept the million dollars. Every single other

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Speaker 2: person would accept the money, stay quiet, and walk away.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's just astonishing to them that that

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Speaker 2: for me was not the key driver. The driver for

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Speaker 2: me was to keep my voice. I don't know why

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Speaker 2: it was surprising. I'd made that very clear in the

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Speaker 2: final two years of the company, and really throughout my

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Speaker 2: twenty two and a half years the company. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it was unthinkable that somebody would do this,

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Speaker 2: give up money to keep their voice.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say is her name. It's spelled se Y. She's

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Speaker 1: on Twitter if you choose to follow her there at

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Say, the book is Levi's unbuttoned. The woke mob

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Speaker 1: took my job, but gave me my voice. What would

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Speaker 1: you say to young people who are within the corporate world,

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Speaker 1: which is very different than working for a small employer,

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Speaker 1: an independent business, you know, different things. What would you

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Speaker 1: say to people who are coming up through the ranks

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Speaker 1: of the corporate world who still want to be true

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Speaker 1: to their beliefs. I'm not saying they want to hold

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Speaker 1: a Trump or a Dysantis rally, you know, on the

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Speaker 1: third floor in the lobby where all the employees are.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying just.

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Speaker 1: People who say, when I want to be able to

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Speaker 1: express myself on Facebook, I want to be able to

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Speaker 1: worship openly. I want to be able to have my

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Speaker 1: own opinions. What would you say as to how to

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Speaker 1: handle that, how to set expectations, how to defend oneself

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Speaker 1: when you're.

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Speaker 2: Called hr Well, first off, I would say do it.

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Speaker 2: The only thing that protects free speech is more speech.

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Speaker 2: That's it. And if everybody does it, they can't cancel us.

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Speaker 2: All right, we can't all be canceled. When you stand alone.

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Speaker 2: It's easy to banish one person. But if the sixty

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Speaker 2: three percent of people who say they can't they feel

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Speaker 2: they can't say what they really think in the workplace

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Speaker 2: or in the world, if they did it, that's a majority.

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Speaker 2: So that's the first point is you have to do it,

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Speaker 2: and I agree with you. You don't need to do

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Speaker 2: it at work. You know you don't need to do

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Speaker 2: it in your cube. You should be working at work anyway.

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Speaker 2: But in your life, in your free time, you have

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Speaker 2: every right as a citizen to say what you think,

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Speaker 2: to tend protests, post what you think. Do you know,

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Speaker 2: stand behind your beliefs. So the first step is really

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Speaker 2: have to do it, And that's really what the book

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Speaker 2: is about. It's an exhortation in a sense to call

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Speaker 2: people to stand up and use their voices. Do not

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Speaker 2: be afraid. You cannot be afraid. Protect your neighbor, protect

431
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: your friend, even if you disagree with them, protect their

432
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: right to speak up and use their voice, because we

433
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: will all lose that opportunity.

434
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Jennifer hold Rut there.

435
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: Hold right there.

436
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: The book is Levi's unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job,

437
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: but gave me my voice. We'll hear more of that

438
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: voice coming up.

439
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: That did a risk me or take me to Texas?

440
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 2: So talking ready to get out of this state. I

441
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: think Michael Barry robs Michael I like.

442
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: Jennifer Say is our guest. She was the president of

443
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: the Levi's brand and was on track to be the

444
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: CEO of lev Ostrauss and Company when she chose to

445
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: leave rather than take a payout because she was being

446
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: ousted because she dared do the most awful thing imaginable

447
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: for an employee. She as an individual and a mother

448
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: of four, spoke out when the San Francisco school district

449
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: decided to close classes during COVID, saying that this was

450
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: bad for kids. And you know, by the way, it's

451
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: really bad for poor kids. That's who suffered the most.

452
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: That's who the data now shows suffered the most. Because

453
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: the kids of means they had tutors who come to

454
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: their house, They had computers with a big screen on it,

455
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: They had in many cases a stay at home mom

456
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: or someone at home who could help them get online

457
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: or parents that are two parents, which already gives you

458
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: an advantage, who were making sure that they're on top

459
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: of their kid being on the zoom class. Imagine the

460
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: kid that lives in an apartment section eight apartment, single mom.

461
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: She's not there, and you can go down the trail

462
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: from who might be there and the bad influences. A

463
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: lot of kids go to school with the hope of

464
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: just getting away from a bad home life. So she's

465
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: peaking up for more than just her kids here. And

466
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: we now know all the data tells us, and anyone

467
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: who's objective now says closing the schools was a huge,

468
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: huge mistake, in fact, so interesting. Randy Winingarden, the head

469
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: of the Teachers Union, went to Ukraine at the request

470
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: of the Biden administration and declared that America needed to

471
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: get involved to stop Russian missiles landing in Ukraine because

472
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: the schools are closed and kids needed to go to school.

473
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: She didn't care if American kids went to school. Jennifer

474
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: Say wrote the book. Jennifer Say wrote the book Levi's Unbuttoned.

475
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: The woke mob took my job but gave me my voice. Jennifer,

476
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: what do you want people to take from this, What

477
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: would be the change that you will have brought into

478
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: the world as a result of your efforts to write this.

479
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 2: I want people to find the courage to speak up

480
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 2: and challenge things that are not true. State their beliefs

481
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: vociferously in your everyday life. You don't have to do

482
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: what I did. You don't have to blow up your

483
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: whole life, but challenge the narrative if you disagree with it.

484
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: If your school, if you're a parent in a school

485
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: that still doesn't do in person parent teacher conferences, don't

486
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: accept it. Tell the principle. Tell them that's not okay.

487
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: You know, do something in your life each day, because

488
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: when you don't speak up, they think we're all fine

489
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: with it, and that is how they manufacture this consensus.

490
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 2: But it's not real, and it means we're accepting dangerous lives.

491
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: That's really my goal is to just encourage people to

492
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: speak up in their everyday lives.

493
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: You set something in the last segment and I'm going

494
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: to bring up again, and that is to take away

495
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: from this discussion, and that is the answer to free

496
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: speech is more free speech. When people choose to silence themselves,

497
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: the government doesn't need to do it. It's the equivalent

498
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: of people telling me, well, I'm not going to vote

499
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: because there's going to be cheating. Well, if you don't

500
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: bother to vote, they don't even need to cheat, in

501
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: which case you're self defeating. And when people choose to

502
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: censor themselves, which many, many, many people do. I have

503
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: people who im They'll say, you know, I'd like to

504
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: speak out about this, but I can't. How come, Well,

505
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: I'd get fired. Prove it, make them fire. You do

506
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: what is necessary, speak out. And I love that you

507
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: are telling this story because there are a lot of

508
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: other people with stories similar to yours, but they don't

509
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: have the Levi's brand name. It's it's ubiquitous, It's it's

510
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: in every household. I grew up with the Uh what

511
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: were mine? The three O eights?

512
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: What were what?

513
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: What would a mine have been? Jennifer, I think Bravo ones.

514
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: One. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna say. It had to

515
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: be a frival one.

516
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: Uh are you wearing Levi's jeans right now, Jennifer On,

517
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: You're wearing the five Zho ones.

518
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: I am.

519
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: Tell me what was the saddest part about getting fired

520
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: from a I mean a purely self indulgent perspective, What

521
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: would have been the coolest thing about being CEO of

522
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: Levi Ostraussen Company. And I don't want to hear all

523
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: the you know, I don't want to hear the high

524
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: minded stuff. I want to know, like did you have

525
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: your own bathroom in the office? Like what does the

526
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: CEUO of lev Ostrauss Company have that you didn't have.

527
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: I don't care about that bathroom stuff. I think he

528
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 2: did have a bathroom. I'm not totally sure. I just

529
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: think it would have been so cool to have come

530
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: up from the very bottom. You know, I started as

531
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: a marketing assistants. And to your point in your opener,

532
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: it's not an easy journey for a woman. It's part

533
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: of what I write about in the book. It's not

534
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: all about my last two years. It's about the sexism

535
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: in corporate America, certainly in the nineties and two thousands

536
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: when I came up. But it persists today and you

537
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: force yourself to be better and you force yourself to

538
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: push through it. I think so that I think that

539
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: would have been pretty cool to have kind of risen

540
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: from the ground up. But Michael would be to create

541
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: a truly inclusive environment you know, all viewpoints real inclusivity,

542
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: not just the kind folks are virtue signaling about today,

543
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: which also matters. I think, you know, gender and racial

544
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: diversity matter. If you want to kind of be able

545
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: to reflect the views of your consumers, you know, you

546
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: want kind of lots of different viewpoints. What I used

547
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: to always say in leading my team is great ideas

548
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: can come from everywhere, and I want to hear your ideas.

549
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: And that is the other issue with all of the

550
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: silencing and censorship, is it limits innovation. I think it

551
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: ultimately will lead to bad business results, you know, and

552
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to I would have wanted to create an

553
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: environment where all voices were heard.

554
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: You know, this is happening all day, every day. This

555
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: is happening, and it's destroying careers. You know, we had

556
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: a number of nurses on who lost their jobs because

557
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: they wouldn't take the JAB that turned out not to

558
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: be a vaccine at all. And the thing about it

559
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: was it wasn't just that this was a job and

560
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: they go get another one. This is their passion, this

561
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: is their ministry. You don't get into nursing for any

562
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: reason other than you want to help people and heal

563
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: people and comfort people. And it broke my heart to

564
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: talk to these people to see how devastated they were

565
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: by all of this. I don't know if you were

566
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: devastated or disappointed. I don't know where it left you emotionally.

567
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: But this is the sort of thing that you never forget.

568
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: You know, you don't end up the president of the

569
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Levi's brand and on track to be the CEO of

570
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: Levi Strauss and Company unless you're highly committed to your

571
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: work and you make a lot lot of sacrifices. I

572
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: know my wife was a professional for a number of years.

573
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: She's still on the board of a fortune five hundred company.

574
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: And that takes travel and time away from the family,

575
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: and it takes time away from you know, an evening

576
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: in front of a television or an evening in front

577
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: of a book, and it's it's it's a struggle. And

578
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: then and then to have it all taken away from

579
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: you because you have to speak your conscience. Boy, that's

580
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: a tough thing. I'm out of time, Jennifer say, thanks

581
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: for being our guest. I really appreciate it. The book

582
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: is Levi Is Unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job,

583
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: but gave me my voice and more important than telling

584
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: your story here, thank you for reducing this to writing

585
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: so that this story is documented and people can share

586
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: it and read it and learn from it. That's wonderful.

587
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I really loved

588
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: our conversation, My pleasure, my dear.

589
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: All right, guys, go get it, go read it, and

590
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: then put it to action. Get engaged, get on the

591
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: field of life. Don't be a bystander.

592
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: Light light