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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck, Brian over there, and Jerry's even here,

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Speaker 1: which means this is a bona fide bonafid they shut

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Speaker 1: your mouth episode of Stuff you should Know, right until

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Speaker 1: Jerry's like, who go to Google? You know, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna outer like that, but you did, so She'll probably

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Speaker 1: end up being sore at me about it, though. We're

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Speaker 1: all busy these days. Seriously, life man, lifetime's a hundred, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean thirteen years in and we're still working out

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Speaker 1: technical difficulties. I know, I know, but we're working it out.

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Speaker 1: We're working it out. Chuck like a brilliant scientists, one

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Speaker 1: of my all time favorites and a frequent guest star

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Speaker 1: of the show in the early years. Paul Baroka, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been a while. Huh Yeah, Like he worked out

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Speaker 1: a little puzzle that he had handed to him almost

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Speaker 1: literally in the eighteen seventies. That's right. This is one

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Speaker 1: of those where I was positive we had covered it before.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, no, I knew, I knew four a fact

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Speaker 1: we had and I'll explain why in a minute. I'll explain.

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Speaker 1: Did it had to be on an Internet roundup or something?

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. I know we talked about the

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Speaker 1: movie Pie when he drilled a hole in his head.

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Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Uh. I just can't remember what

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Speaker 1: episode or what it what format it was? Maybe or right,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was an Internet round up, because I could

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Speaker 1: see us talking about that Internet group doing that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff, the International Trepid Nation Advocacy Group. I'll bet

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Speaker 1: I even went to our Wikipedia page because they have

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Speaker 1: a place where they list things that we've redone. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see that. Yeah. And by the way, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to put out a call if you are a

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia editor, our pages years and years years out of date.

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Speaker 1: It says that we're writers for how stuff works. We

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Speaker 1: haven't written for them in what like eight years. It's

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Speaker 1: been a little while. Yeah, so if anyone wants updated,

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Speaker 1: it's got I mean, God bless her, I miss Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: but it said that Rebecca is our web publisher right

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Speaker 1: a long time ago. Yeah, it has been a little while.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, if anyone feels like blowing the dust off

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Speaker 1: of that thing, well free Okay, so well, that was

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Speaker 1: a great call out, Chuck. But let's get back to

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Speaker 1: trepid nation. Okay. And like you said before we started recording,

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Speaker 1: no No, Chuck said he has no trepidation about trepid nation.

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Speaker 1: That was for year years. That was great though it

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Speaker 1: is definitely worth sharing terrible. But so maybe I mentioned

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Speaker 1: it before then because I always associate trepid nation with

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Speaker 1: this little second one second long snippet from those time

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Speaker 1: life Mysteries of the Unknown book ads from the and

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Speaker 1: there's like one moment where they like show somebody like

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Speaker 1: doing a trepid nation surgery on somebody else's head in

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Speaker 1: like a cave by torchlight. I think I remember that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, wait, what is that? I want

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Speaker 1: to know more about that. So this has been sitting

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Speaker 1: in our back pocket all this time, and I guess

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Speaker 1: we busted it out at least once before. It had

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Speaker 1: to have been Internet round up. It definitely wasn't an episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you're probably right. Unless we talked about it

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Speaker 1: during lobotomy is I don't know, it could have been.

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Speaker 1: It could have been Chuck, because a lot of people say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the lobotomy was the natural progression to um trepid trepid

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Speaker 1: nation and not really no, no, it's actually that's incredibly false.

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Speaker 1: It turns out trepid nation is maybe one of the

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Speaker 1: oldest medical techniques, if not the oldest medical technique we have,

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Speaker 1: aside from like slapping someone on the back when they're choking,

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Speaker 1: that might be older, but we don't have any evidence

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Speaker 1: to back that up. We actually have the evidence from

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Speaker 1: trepid nation. And to get back to Monsieur Broca um

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Speaker 1: famous for the Broker area, which is the first region

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Speaker 1: of the brain that demonstrated localized UM function like the

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Speaker 1: speech center is um. It produces speech, and it's the

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Speaker 1: first time we could ever say this part of the

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Speaker 1: brain is responsible for this function. And Broca was the

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Speaker 1: guy who did that. He had a skull handed to

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Speaker 1: him in the eighteen seventies and it turned out to

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Speaker 1: be an inc in skull. I couldn't find out anywhere

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Speaker 1: how old it was, but we can guess that by

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Speaker 1: the time Broca got his hands on it, it was

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Speaker 1: at least a couple of hundred years old, if not

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Speaker 1: more than a thousand years old. Yeah, can you imagine

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Speaker 1: the feather in your cap of you're just sitting around

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Speaker 1: with your other cohorts. You're like, I have a part

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Speaker 1: of the brain named after me, by the way, So

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you guys have done, but I

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Speaker 1: know they're like Paul, you in every argument with that Hi, Um,

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Speaker 1: Paul broke broke his area. It says it on his

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Speaker 1: card to Paul broke a comma broke his area. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he was obviously like, well, this is an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing because what he was looking at was a

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Speaker 1: piece of skull, what was his human skull where a

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Speaker 1: piece of it had been purposefully cut away and removed

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Speaker 1: remarkably well, and it actually actually started to grow back,

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Speaker 1: which indicates that whoever had this performed on them. That

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Speaker 1: means they survived and was trying to heal. Yeah, at

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Speaker 1: least for a little while. Yeah, Like it takes a

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Speaker 1: little time for the bone to heal around like a

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Speaker 1: skull cut away. So yeah, they had to have lived.

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Speaker 1: I think in some cases I've seen, um, when the

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Speaker 1: skull starts going back, it indicates at least a year

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Speaker 1: of survival. I was gonna ask that. So I only

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Speaker 1: saw that one or two places. I didn't see exactly, Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know a d percent, but it seems like

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Speaker 1: it's it's a little while right, It's not like a

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Speaker 1: right yea. So the thing is is like Broca's sitting

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Speaker 1: here saying like, Okay, this is this is evidence of

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Speaker 1: like this is a purposeful medical procedure. I believe that

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Speaker 1: this person had what had their brain cut into to

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Speaker 1: treat some form of malady or something like that. It's

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Speaker 1: a proto brain surgery basically. And it was called trepi nation.

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Speaker 1: And Paul Broca went to the French Anthropological Society I think,

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Speaker 1: which he founded. Yeah, that was another thing he did,

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Speaker 1: was the first pay of the Anthropological Society. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they still were like, no, you got this one wrong,

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Speaker 1: Paul um. But he went to them and said as much,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, no, that's just not possible. And here's

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Speaker 1: the thing that stuck out to me, Chuck. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: that they were saying it's not possible that somebody could

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Speaker 1: cut into someone else's head. Because these these people, these

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Speaker 1: members of the Anthropological Society or just people in general

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Speaker 1: in France in the eighteen seventies were well aware of

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Speaker 1: that procedure. It had a name trepid Nation, and you

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Speaker 1: could go to the hospital and get trepanned, depending on

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Speaker 1: what kind of problem you had with your head. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like they were just totally unfamiliar with this.

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Speaker 1: They were super familiar with it. What they refused to

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Speaker 1: believe is that some other society, and non European society,

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Speaker 1: especially when removed in time, was capable of performing the

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Speaker 1: surgery and in performing it in a good enough way

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Speaker 1: that the person could possibly survive it. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: they were like, I just I just don't know. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like they certainly weren't performing medical procedures. The Incas

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Speaker 1: weren't doing that. And he was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: look at that whole Yeah, it's pretty purposeful to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so what Broca figured out was he was the

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Speaker 1: first one to really stumble upon this evidence that this

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Speaker 1: medical procedure that they were carrying out in the hospitals

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Speaker 1: trepa nation was part of like a really ancient medical procedure,

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Speaker 1: virtually unchanged in a lot of ways, Like, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: tools that they used were kind of changed and kind

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Speaker 1: of updated, but basically the procedure they were carrying out

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Speaker 1: in the hospitals of France in the eighteen seventies and

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Speaker 1: elsewhere in Europe and America. It was basically the same

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Speaker 1: thing that people were doing thousands of years ago and

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Speaker 1: had been doing for thousands of years as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they were doing it so much. In Europe

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Speaker 1: in the eighteenth century it was known as the is

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Speaker 1: it tree pin or trip In I say trapin trip

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Speaker 1: in the Trepin century, or because it's us, we'll call

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Speaker 1: it the golden age of Trepa nation. Now I'm doubting myself,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like the Golden Age might have been

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Speaker 1: you know, a thousand years ago. Yeah, I think you

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Speaker 1: might be right about that too. But it's started out

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Speaker 1: as a veterinary practice. And we'll get a little bit too,

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Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, they were we'll get to

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Speaker 1: the famous cow later on, right, antient cow. But in

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Speaker 1: the eighteenth century they think that it started out as

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Speaker 1: a veterinary practice, correct, and then we'll get to the

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Speaker 1: ancient cow a bit later. But it extended humans after

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Speaker 1: the veterinary procedures, and you know, doctors at the time

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Speaker 1: we're like, you know, we think it's useful, we think

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Speaker 1: it hell us out with certain things that we'll get

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Speaker 1: to as well. But they said, it's also killing a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and it's got a survival rate of

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Speaker 1: about ten. And here's the little like a whopper of

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Speaker 1: a detail here. The survival rate in ancient times was

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Speaker 1: really really high, Like it made the modern survival rate

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Speaker 1: just look embarrassingly low. It was flip whopped, really, wasn't it? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And the Golden Age, like you were mentioning, it seems

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Speaker 1: like the golden age of trepid nation occurred thousands of

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Speaker 1: years before modern medicine ever came around, and that when

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Speaker 1: modern medicine came around and kind of took over, trepid

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Speaker 1: nation really dropped the ball kind of well yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, of course, once he finds that one skull,

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Speaker 1: other skulls start coming forward. They start walking forward and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: check me out. I'm out here as evidence as well,

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Speaker 1: which was pretty remarkable. That's like compariously, that Mystery Science

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Speaker 1: Theater three thousand episode on the Screaming Skull. It's like

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Speaker 1: the villain in the in the movie is like a

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Speaker 1: skull that can move around and fly at people, kind

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Speaker 1: of like the money from uh Monty Python and the

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Speaker 1: Holy Grail, but it's a skull version of that, uh

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Speaker 1: they found or we now know that the oldest trepon

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Speaker 1: skull comes all the way back from about eight thousand

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Speaker 1: years ago in the Stone Age during the Meso Philic Mesolithic.

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Speaker 1: Sorry and my first and that was eight thousand years ago,

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Speaker 1: and like this is the beginnings of sort of uh,

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Speaker 1: planting things and eating vegetables and like building cities, like

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Speaker 1: the very beginnings of civilization basically, yeah, and we're like

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Speaker 1: cutting holes into one another's heads, and that we found

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Speaker 1: evidence of this stuff like all over the world. This

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Speaker 1: wasn't just like one one weird old city do doing this,

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Speaker 1: Like this was everywhere in places that were really removed

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Speaker 1: from one another. Like there's evidence of ancient trepid nation

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Speaker 1: among indigenous peoples in Canada and North America. There's the

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Speaker 1: same thing in Ukraine, North Africa, Portugal, everywhere that the Scandinavia,

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Speaker 1: the iraq Um, all over the place there there's evidence

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Speaker 1: of trapan skulls that turn up. South America is another one.

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Speaker 1: And so it just kind of goes to show you

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Speaker 1: either it was something that evolved independently in all these places,

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Speaker 1: or it's so ancient that it it originated somewhere and

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Speaker 1: then managed to spread out as people spread across the globe,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty interesting either way. Yeah, and it was

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Speaker 1: it like it got like really popular. This set really

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Speaker 1: got me. During the copper Age, which was just after

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Speaker 1: Stone Age, they found that about five to ten of

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Speaker 1: all skulls that they found from the Neolithic area where

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Speaker 1: Trapan's yeah not just yeah, like like up to ten

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Speaker 1: percent of all the skulls that have ever turned up

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Speaker 1: had holes cut into their skull. And the thing is

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Speaker 1: is like we were saying, like, if if that had

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Speaker 1: just been in, if that were the sum total of it,

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Speaker 1: that you know, wow, that's really interesting. People used to

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Speaker 1: cut holes in in their skulls and that was it. Um,

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Speaker 1: it would still be worth remarking remarking on, you know,

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Speaker 1: or talking about probably would have just stayed at the

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Speaker 1: Internet round up. But the reason that it's worth a

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Speaker 1: whole episode is because of that survival rate. That not

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Speaker 1: only do they cut skulls in each other's heads with

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Speaker 1: with rocks, actual rocks, Um, the people survived these operations

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Speaker 1: and may have actually been improved as a result of

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Speaker 1: these operations, and that it had been going on for

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Speaker 1: thousands of years and still kind of continues today. That's

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Speaker 1: what really makes the whole thing noteworthy. And when you

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Speaker 1: look back at trepid nation in like the Mesolithic and

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Speaker 1: Neolithic era, um, like that's part of medical history. It's

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Speaker 1: not just some weird thing that people used to do

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Speaker 1: in other cultures. Like that was the beginning of a

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Speaker 1: surgery that we still carry out today. I don't think

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Speaker 1: we can get that across enough. Yeah, there's a neuroscientist

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Speaker 1: named Charles G. Gross that put the estimate of survival

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Speaker 1: sometimes up to fifty And then a survey of skulls

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Speaker 1: from the Iberian Peninsula showed evidence that they had healed

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Speaker 1: or at least we're healing at that site, which means

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Speaker 1: they lived for a while. Um. Like you said, skull

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Speaker 1: just doesn't grow overnight. It takes a little while. And

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Speaker 1: as long as that blood flowing, I guess it's healing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then that actually dropped, so, like I said, that's

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Speaker 1: flip flopped from success rates, you know, thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of years later in Europe. Uh. And then when the

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Speaker 1: Holy Roman Empire was doing this in medieval Europe, they

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Speaker 1: weren't doing it as good. They had a higher mortality rate,

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Speaker 1: and the thinking is is because they used um knives

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Speaker 1: and then like wiped them off and then lives got

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Speaker 1: really dirty. Waras in the olden days they would fashion

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Speaker 1: like brand new tools out of bone and rock and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you know they were I guess comparatively pretty sanitary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because if you if you nap um, you know, cut

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Speaker 1: off the face of a rock to create a new

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Speaker 1: stone tool to to perform a trepidation, that rock hasn't

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Speaker 1: been exposed to anything. It's basically sterile now because you

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Speaker 1: just cut off the face and now you're using it.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if you're performing surgery using the same tools and

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Speaker 1: all you're doing is washing it off, like that's just

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Speaker 1: bacterious city and it's not that hard to get a

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Speaker 1: brain infection when you cut into a skull using reusing

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Speaker 1: tools that have just been kind of washed off with

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Speaker 1: water a little bit. So yeah, that was probably a

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Speaker 1: really good reason why the survival rate went down. But

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why it was so high also

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Speaker 1: earlier is because people like even back in the Mesolithic

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Speaker 1: and Neil, they seem to have understood a couple of things,

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Speaker 1: and one was you stay away from the dura mater,

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Speaker 1: which is that really hard tough, not hard, but really

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Speaker 1: tough membrane that encases the brain and the spinal cord

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Speaker 1: and protects it from the outside. Even if your skull

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Speaker 1: cracks open, as long as you stay away from that

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Speaker 1: and don't cut into that, your your chances of survival

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Speaker 1: are pretty high. And ancient people seem to have really

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Speaker 1: understood this. They also knew to stay away from sutures,

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Speaker 1: which is where your skull the pieces of your skull

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Speaker 1: which are not set, which are not um fused together

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Speaker 1: when you're born. They fuse as you grow older. The

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Speaker 1: places the lines where your skull plates formed together. Those

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Speaker 1: are called sutures, and they also need to stay away

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Speaker 1: from those as well. So apparently, if you just do

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Speaker 1: those few things and create a new stone tool every

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Speaker 1: time you perform the surgery, your your survival rates going

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Speaker 1: to go through the roof. Yeah, and you know, before

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Speaker 1: we get called out, maybe we shouldn't refer to those

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Speaker 1: stone tools as sterile. Maybe we should just say like

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Speaker 1: pretty clean for the time, clean enough, How about that

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Speaker 1: clean enough for rock and roles? All right, I guess

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Speaker 1: we should take a break, right set up? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought so too, man, And uh, we'll come back and

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Speaker 1: try and answer the big question after this, which is

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Speaker 1: why the heck were they doing this? All Right, so

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Speaker 1: they know this was happening, they know it was working

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Speaker 1: pretty well, and that people were surviving at remarkable rates.

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Speaker 1: But the big sort of question that they had then

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Speaker 1: and that we're still trying to kind of figure out

291
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Speaker 1: and we don't know for sure, is like, why would

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Speaker 1: they do this to begin with? Why a day dig

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Speaker 1: into a person's head and cut out a piece of

294
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Speaker 1: their skull eight thousand years ago? Uh? And you know,

295
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,120
Speaker 1: we've got some decent ideas that all makes sense to me. Yeah, um.

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Speaker 1: And the whole problem is is kind of like like

297
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Speaker 1: put you have to put yourself in the mentality in

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Speaker 1: the shoes in the world view of somebody who was

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Speaker 1: no shoes right right exactly. There's a huge different people

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Speaker 1: who are still humans. They were modern humans in every

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Speaker 1: sense of the word, aside from not living in the

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Speaker 1: modern era. Um. But they didn't have the benefit of,

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Speaker 1: you know, a general knowledge of medicine that that just

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Speaker 1: about every human alive has today just from living in

305
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Speaker 1: the twenty one century UM, or just kind of under

306
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Speaker 1: having read about something on the internet, you know, like

307
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Speaker 1: there's just so many pieces of the way we see

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Speaker 1: the world that we take for granted because it's just

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Speaker 1: there's just so many ways that we absorb information, and

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Speaker 1: there's so much information available to us that wasn't before that.

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Speaker 1: To to kind of remove yourself from that and put

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Speaker 1: yourself in the position of somebody six thousand years ago

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Speaker 1: and and to understand what they were thinking when they

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Speaker 1: were cutting into someone's head that drove that purpose, it's

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Speaker 1: really tough to do. But yeah, like you were saying,

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Speaker 1: there's some some researchers have come up with some pretty

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00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: good ideas, general ideas, um, broad categories that you could

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Speaker 1: probably put just about anything into. And there's actually three

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Speaker 1: researchers that are worth shouting out. There was um Lopez,

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Speaker 1: Carro and Pardin, Yes, three Spanish researchers who wrote a

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven paper that, um it was a pretty

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Speaker 1: one of the better recent comprehensive looks at at trepid

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Speaker 1: nation ancient trepid nation. Yeah, so one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: and like you said, you, I mean, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's lazy, but you could kind of slap these reasons

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Speaker 1: on anything that happened back then. Uh, one of them

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Speaker 1: was magic a religious UM like, you know, free the

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Speaker 1: demons from someone's head. I kind of read that as, uh,

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Speaker 1: possibly to help cure mental illness, which they were definitely

330
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Speaker 1: doing in Europe thousands of years later, So I don't

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Speaker 1: see why they wouldn't have maybe done the same thing.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, it's it's remarkable though, to think that

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Speaker 1: eight thousand years ago that they they knew enough or

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Speaker 1: we're guessing enough to know that there is even a

335
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Speaker 1: brain in there that was really important to the human body,

336
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, calling the shots. Yeah, yeah, I mean how

337
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,919
Speaker 1: they even know that, I don't know. And similarly, that

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Speaker 1: whole idea that like the third eye, that that part

339
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 1: that kind of connects you to the to the metaphysical

340
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 1: world UM was located somewhere, you know, in the front

341
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: of your head, which I think is actually right where

342
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,640
Speaker 1: the pineal gland was, which was later associated with that too. UM.

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00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: That kind of falls into that same tranche as well.

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Speaker 1: The magic religious which is UM to kind of open

345
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Speaker 1: yourself to a greater plane of spirituality, like they think

346
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: that in some in some dimensions or in some cultures

347
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: UM like shaman or medicine people or UM. The high

348
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: priests whoever we were kind of responsible for that would

349
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: would possibly be trepanned to kind of connect to that

350
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Speaker 1: that different level, that other way of thinking. Yeah. Another one,

351
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: and this is definitely one that you could probably say

352
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: explains away a lot of things. Is some sort of initiation, right, uh,

353
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: child passing into adulthood at you know, the age of seven,

354
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Speaker 1: or uh, if you want to turn someone to into

355
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Speaker 1: a great warrior, maybe before some big battle, hopefully a

356
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: little bit before that big battle, you know, just to

357
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Speaker 1: give a chance to heal up. But that you know,

358
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: that makes sense. They did all kinds of things back

359
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: then for writes of passage, so why not this? Um.

360
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Speaker 1: There's also those two me are the ones that are

361
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: the hardest to to grasp, I think even harder than

362
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: magic religious the ones for initiations not grasp I mean

363
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: to to pin down definitively, to say, yes, that's exactly

364
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 1: what was going on here, you know what I mean? Yeah,

365
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 1: and then follow like real legit medical purposes like if

366
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:16,959
Speaker 1: someone if tooktok had epilepsy or something, or chronic migraine headaches, uh,

367
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: any weird changes in behavior or convulsions or anything like that,

368
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 1: they maybe tumors um as a literal way to maybe

369
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Speaker 1: relieve like brain swelling or pressure on the brain, which

370
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: is I mean, if that's real, then that's that's remarkable

371
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: because that is very much a medical procedure that they

372
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: still do today. Craniotomy's right, and then kind of tied

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Speaker 1: into that is a treatment of trauma, UH, specifically head wounds.

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Speaker 1: And there's an anthropologist who specializes in I think UM

375
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: maybe the INCA. His name is John Rizzo, and he

376
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Speaker 1: thinks that the ink with the inc at least um

377
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: and the INCA went on to become prolific trepans. I

378
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Speaker 1: think maybe half of all of the Trapan skulls that

379
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: have been discovered came from the inca. They were big

380
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: time into trepainning um. But he thinks that there their

381
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: trepi nation may have started when somebody was picking bone

382
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: out of a head wound to like clean it or

383
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: treat it, and that that person went on to survive

384
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 1: and they thought, Okay, maybe this is a thing. Maybe

385
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: like you want a hole in your head or um,

386
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 1: if you have a hole in your head, it's supposed

387
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 1: to be a little more cleaner than you know, just

388
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: bone sticking out and that you know you can it's

389
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: not hard to make the leap to Okay, we're actually

390
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: going to carve a hole in your head to maybe

391
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: treat something else that is associated with the head. To

392
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: us um that that that's not really a big stretch

393
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: to tell you the truth. And I definitely bought into it. Yeah,

394
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: the one that didn't see, which um, I think is

395
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: is sort of plausible. Is just like ancient curiosity, Sure,

396
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: what happens when I carve a hole in my friends?

397
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: Or what's in that thing? What is in this round

398
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: thing that had this very hard protective covering, Like maybe

399
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: something important is in there that we should take a

400
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: peek at. I wonder because I know that there's like

401
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: a mechanism among people against self harm, and if I

402
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: feel like there's a mechanism against harm as well, I

403
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: don't know how just letting that, yeah, or harming somebody,

404
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: like doing that to somebody else, you know what I mean.

405
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: Like there's just it's almost like there's some innate sense

406
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: of like you shouldn't shouldn't crack open ahead someone's or

407
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: yourselves or your own, um, and that there's like some

408
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: in a instinct against it. And I would guess it's

409
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: older than ten thou years old, you know. Yeah, And

410
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: you know you made a great point and you put

411
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: this one together yourself that even if it was to

412
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: like because there was a head injury or something like that,

413
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: that's a big difference. Like treating a wound with some

414
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: sort of surgical procedure is way way different than that

415
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: being the surgical procedure to begin with. Yeah, and it's there,

416
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: that's where it's like murky. That's where it's like, Okay,

417
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: you're really kind of making some assumptions and leaps here

418
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: when you put yourself in that person's position and try

419
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: to say, this is why they were doing it, you

420
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, like the medical thing to

421
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: reduce influ Like maybe they did have some really vague

422
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: understanding of what swelling was in uh and on other

423
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: parts of the body, and maybe it just made sense.

424
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's I mean, I think it it

425
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: might be an overlapping of all these reasons. Um. And

426
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: also like, hey, we did this for this thing, so

427
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: why not try it for this thing? Not gonna deal. Yeah,

428
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I think like, um, like I get

429
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: what you're saying with the curiosity but I think tied

430
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: into that is is observation to like somebody falls down

431
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 1: and hits their head on a rock, or they're attacked

432
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: by some other group and gets hit on the head

433
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: with a rock and they see brain people, yeah, and

434
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: people like the other people around like watch what happens,

435
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: just out of natural curiosity, and they learn from that.

436
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: So I feel like it was probably a series of

437
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: accidents and that that knowledge was gleaned from that that

438
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: kind of got passed along and then developed into an

439
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: actual procedure, you know. Yeah, And then you know, there

440
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: are other cases where they may not fall into any

441
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: of these categories. I think people in modern day Hungary

442
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: during the Neolithic they did this after death as a

443
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: funeral rite, which I think, I guess I could fall

444
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: into magic religious reasons, or write a passage even especially

445
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: if you believe that there's some other there's some part

446
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: of the body that survives after death that maybe needs

447
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: to escape or whatever. I could see trepanning a skull

448
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: to let that out to go onto the afterlife. Again,

449
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm well aware I'm falling victim of the

450
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: very thing I was warning about that I'm just totally

451
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: putting myself into their shoes and answering for them like

452
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: it's I'm not a I'm not a professional anthropologist, just

453
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: an intense hobbyist, you know. And what was the deal

454
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: with the Russians that we're trepanning where the man bun sits? Yeah,

455
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: so that'sn't the Obelian I think? Yeah, Yeah, which is

456
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: a really risky place to trapan because that's where the

457
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: blood supply to your head collects, Like where I saw

458
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: it described I think on the BBC is where a

459
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: high ponytail would be gathered. Yeah, that's where the blood

460
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: that's going to be distributed throughout your brain first collects

461
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: and gathers. So it's really risky to cut in there.

462
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: And I think something like one percent or less of

463
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: all the trapan skulls ever found show a Trepi nation

464
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: site there. And yet there's um a number of uh

465
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: calculithic copper age skulls that have been found that are

466
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: endemic to Russia only that have the Trepi nation at

467
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: that site, and they seem to have been healthy, and

468
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: they most of them seem to have healed. So they're like,

469
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: we're pretty sure this is some sort of ritual maybe

470
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: in an uh an initiation, I could see that being

471
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: like a warrior thinging or like a you know, priestly

472
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: class kind of thing early KGB. Yeah. Probably probably they

473
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: stuck some sort of proto micro chip in there and

474
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: keep an eye on everybody. So I mentioned the famous

475
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: cow um Like we mentioned it was a purposeful veterinary

476
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: procedure in Europe in the in what they call the

477
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: Golden Age of trepid nation UH in the eighteenth century.

478
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: But they found a cow skull from about five to

479
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: six thousand years ago in France that was the so

480
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: far the first sign of trepid nation on an animal.

481
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: And this was another one where it was like it

482
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: was clear that it was very purposeful. It wasn't a fracture,

483
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't a cow fight or a cow scrap uh

484
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: there wasn't a tumor or at least no signs of

485
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: anything like that. But they did find a very purposeful

486
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: trepid nation And it could have been It's either either way.

487
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: It's cool, it could have been then practicing on an

488
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: animal before they did it on humans, which shows pretty

489
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: decent amount of sophistication medically, or it's just early that

490
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: nary medicine, which is also remarkable. Yeah, and either way, it's,

491
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: as far as we know, the earliest example of either

492
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: one of those. So yeah, it's a it's a cow

493
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: skull worth hanging on to if it ever comes. They

494
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: all are into your possession. But I mean it's a

495
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: special one because it's got a whole like right in

496
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: the front. I've seen a picture of it. It's pretty cool. So, um,

497
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: once we enter history, things become a lot clearer because

498
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: by definition, everybody wrote stuff down. That's when you enter history, right,

499
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: it's recorded, and the ancient Greeks continued trepanning, and I

500
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: would guess, Chuck that the reasons and the procedures that

501
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks were performing, as far as chupin Nation

502
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: goes closely resembled stuff that that the reasons and the

503
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: procedures from prehistory as well. Yeah, we uh, like you said,

504
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: once they started writing stuff down, we could read it

505
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: in the Hippocratic Corpus, which was a collection of ancient

506
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: Greek medical texts, uh, from the teachings of Hippocrates. Obviously, Um,

507
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: they talk about therapeutic reasonings behind it. Some of the

508
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: ones that we already talked about basically UM, including something

509
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: called uh Places in Man, which is one of the

510
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: texts in there, and it recommended trepid nation for the

511
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: president prevention of UM probably swelling because of skull fractures

512
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: and swelling. And then they were also preventing infection of

513
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: that diameter um, that membrane that in cases the brain um.

514
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: And they were saying basically, if you have a fracture,

515
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: especially a fracture along one of the sutures, you want

516
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: to actually trepan and open up a bigger hole because

517
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: pus can get into the fracture that suture and it

518
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: can't get back out, and it's going to infect the

519
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: dirameter and the brain and have all calls, all sorts

520
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: of problems. So you want to open up a larger

521
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: hole to let some of that puss out and clean

522
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: some of the puss out. And that's pretty sophisticated. That's

523
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: brain surgery they're describing right there. And you know, Hippocrates

524
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: was in the third i think third or fourth century BC,

525
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: so UM like if they understood this by this time,

526
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: keep puss out of the derrimator. You know what did

527
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: they understand a thousand years before? Five years before they

528
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: just don't. They just weren't writing it down, but they

529
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: still they still had that knowledge. You know what I'm saying,

530
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: that's my guess. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and throw

531
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: in then this, this is so official, it can go

532
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: on the Wikipedia page I'm doing. With plus, that's my

533
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: worst word. Worse than moist. Oh, plus is way way worse.

534
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: What about really moist? A turkey can be moist, but

535
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: a turkey with plus, that's true, you know a turkey

536
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: could be moist with pus? Oh, oh man, I can't

537
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: take that word. It's pretty it's the worst. It's the

538
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: word for a three letter word, usually three letter. It's

539
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: not packing a big punch you need for letters. Yeah,

540
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: p us, I thought, Oh yeah, I guess never mind. Uh,

541
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: mentioning earlier that mental illness, like you know, releasing the

542
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: demons or something could have been a reason thousands of

543
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: years ago, and that they also did that in medieval Europe.

544
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: There was something called the stone of madness, uh that

545
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: where they believed that was an actual like stone inside

546
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: your head, like a foreign literal foreign object that caused

547
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: people to go crazy. And there are even painters, specifically

548
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: Horonymous Bosh and others who depicted this surgery removing the

549
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: stone of madness. Yeah, have you seen that painting? It's

550
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: pretty famous one. Yeah, it's pretty great. I mean I

551
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't want it on my wall, but and yeah, so

552
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: so it's almost like understanding of, um, you wouldn't want it,

553
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want it next to your frame poster of

554
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: the guy melting with stoned again written underneath it, and

555
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: then that's right next to the kitten that's going to

556
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: hang in there, hang in there baby. Um. So it's

557
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: it's it's worth pointing out again that by the time

558
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: the Medieval area and even the Renaissance came around, we

559
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: had we had gotten really bad at trepid nation as

560
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: far as survival rates go, and our reasons for it

561
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: possibly had degraded as well, you know. Uh yeah, And

562
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: just real quickly, my favorite part of that painting is

563
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: the the funnel on the surgeon's head. Yeah. Well I

564
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: was reading about that and I read it. So if

565
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: you notice also there's a nun seated at the table

566
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: where the man is being trepanned, and she's wearing a

567
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: book on her head, And I mean maybe that was

568
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: for balance practice at least Supposedly, Bosch was basically mocking

569
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: the doctor in the nun um for like basically taking

570
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: them to tasks, suggesting they should know better, that that

571
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: a stone of madness was b s and that they

572
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: shouldn't be inflicting this on this poor this poor individual

573
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: who wouldn't necessarily know better, because I think he's depicted

574
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: as a fool in it, so he's he wouldn't have

575
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: any No, no, no no, the patient, the doctor, and the

576
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: nun should know better than to perform this kind of

577
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: sentrey on somebody because there is no stone of madness.

578
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: That was the interpretation I read, which makes me like

579
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: even more with the armadillo and his trousers. Yeah, really breaches.

580
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: So you want to take a second break and come

581
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: back and explain a little bit more about how this

582
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: might happen, Yeah, okay, and how they even did it? Good. Yeah,

583
00:33:41,240 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: we'll be right back, everybody, all right, So our old

584
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: pals Lopez Carro and Pardinis, the Spanish researchers who wrote

585
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: that two thousand and eleven paper um also kind of said, hey,

586
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: we've we've got some general ways from what we can tell.

587
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: There's some like three maybe four I saw, but you

588
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: can really lump them into three categories of how trepid

589
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: nation surgery was performed. Um, and they are basically they

590
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: boiled down to grooving, scraping, and boring and cutting. And

591
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: if you just wiggle in your seat, that's the appropriate

592
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: response to hearing about that. Yeah, the first one I get. Um,

593
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. If I had a skull

594
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: and primitive tools, the way that I would cut a

595
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: hole in it would probably be to groove it. That

596
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: is too Ah, take a hard stone, something really sharp

597
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: that you probably even sharpened further, and and carve basically

598
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: do little digging, little half turns or full turns in

599
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: a circle. Uh, you know, carving until you can kind

600
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: of just pop that thing off or lift it off.

601
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: You don't want to there's no where to pop it

602
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: into you know one of those Yeah, you don't pop

603
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: it into your into your brain. Um, you know one

604
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: of those like apple cores that's like kind of like

605
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: an open tube. It's like open in the middle. Yeah,

606
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: and there is such a thing as an apple core,

607
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: by the way, But if you took one of those

608
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: and you put a handle, a cross wise handle on

609
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: top to grip that's that was kind of the tool

610
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: that you would use for grooving, and there's actually the

611
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: Romans head it. The Greeks had it. I think there's

612
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: I saw a picture of a sixteenth century Trepi nation

613
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: kit that had one of those. It's a really ancient tool.

614
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: But like you're saying, you could also do it with

615
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: a stone, And I think grooven sounds pretty bad. Scray

616
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: being I think would be worse. Yeah, I didn't quite

617
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: understand scraping. It sounded like grooving to me. Oh no,

618
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: I'm no dancer. Imagine that somebody has peeled back part

619
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: of your your your scalp, and this is this is

620
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: worth pointing out, like cutting into your scalp is far

621
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: and away the worst part. Once you do that, your

622
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: skull in your brain, they don't have pain receptors, so

623
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,479
Speaker 1: it's the scalp being cut back that actually really hurts

624
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: and produces the most blood. So they do brain surgery

625
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: with you awake like now, precisely because you don't can

626
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: You don't feel any pain um because there's not pain

627
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: receptors there. So once you have the scalp peel back,

628
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: what they do with scraping, or what they would do

629
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: is take a very sharp rock and then later on

630
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: tools too. But they're basically taking advantage of the fact

631
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: that your skull is curved and just making a straight

632
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: motion kind of like you would with like a would

633
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: um is it would laugh, a would grasp something like that,

634
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: where you're just scraping away a little by little would,

635
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: but you're doing this instead with the skull until you

636
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: finally wear a hole into the skull. That's the scraping technique. Okay,

637
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: I guess that sounds a little like grooving to me,

638
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: but no. Grooving is like taking a circular tube, putting

639
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: it down on top of the skull and twisting it

640
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 1: back and forth until you like that. Yeah, yeah, it's different.

641
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: It's definitely different. I'll show you. I'll show you. We'll

642
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: get a cow skull, uh, and then I have one

643
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: no problem boring and cutting. This one was not used

644
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: much in Europe. I think this is more of a

645
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: South American Arabic jam. Also in Africa. This is when

646
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: and this is something that it's sort of a carpentry trick.

647
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: If you're ever carpentry trick of your cot without the

648
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: right saw me be um. Let's say you wanted to

649
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: make a hole in a piece of wood and all

650
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: you had was a drill. You would drill little holes

651
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: in a circle and then you know, as close together

652
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: as you can, and then from there it's not too

653
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: hard to kind of punch out the areas in between.

654
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: But instead you're doing this with a skull, that's right,

655
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: and you don't have a drill, and uh, this one

656
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: to me would be the one that's the most rough

657
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: around the edges, probably right. Yeah, they know that this

658
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: is the technique used when they find a skull that

659
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: has like a serrited opening. And apparently the Inco were

660
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: super fond to that one, right sure, as as I

661
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: did this just last week actually, but not in a

662
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: skull because I was stuck without us all and all

663
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: I had was my drill. So I did that and

664
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: it works, Okay, you just gotta have like some sandpaper

665
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: file or something to kind of smooth it out. Well, yeah,

666
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: I saw like one of the ways that they thought

667
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: they might have done the drill is by rolling the

668
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, pointed sharp guess rock in between your two palms,

669
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: you know, like you're trying to start a fire, which

670
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: is actually something I saw that that the ancient people

671
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: would have known you want to avoid heating the bone.

672
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: Whatever technique you're using, you've got to stop and like

673
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: rest for a little while to prevent the bone from

674
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: heating up because you don't want to transfer that heat

675
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: you want to start a fire inside the skull, which

676
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: is essentially what you could all also be doing if

677
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: you're not careful with letting the friction, the heat produced

678
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: by the friction to cool off in between little sessions. Yeah,

679
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: it's funny that this came up now because, um, you know,

680
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: I mentioned a couple of times watching that survival show

681
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: and History Channel Alone where you have you can bring

682
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: like ten things and then they throw out in the woods.

683
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: There's a new spinoff series now called Alone Beast where

684
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: it's only thirty days but you take nothing but the

685
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: clothes on your back. So the people that are dropped

686
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: here are are literally fashioning stone tools and stuff, and

687
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of cool to watch. At least they

688
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: have clothes on. They have clothes, and that's it. I

689
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: guess the next step would be naked, and uh, the

690
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: beast thing comes in is that the only thing they

691
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: give you as a one large dead animal in the buyou,

692
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: it's an alligator. And the arc ticket's like a or

693
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: or a bore, and the arctickets like a moose or

694
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: a buffalo or something. It's not for a companionship. No,

695
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: no, no no, the animal is dead and they're like, this

696
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: is all you got, so you can, you know, use

697
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: their bones. Like an animal's jawbone is really useful because

698
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: that's like super sharp. A boar's tusk is can be

699
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: really sharp. So they make knives out of that stuff.

700
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: And they use some of these carving and boring grooving

701
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: techniques to break off bone to make like sharper things. Yeah,

702
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I'll bet getting your your hands

703
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: on that first tusk or that first jawbone to get

704
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: started as pretty messy. Well it is. And they have

705
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: to get in these I mean it's kind of gruesome,

706
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: especially if you're uh a vegetarian. But they have to

707
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: get into these animals without a knife to begin with.

708
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: So they have to start with like a sharper rock

709
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: as they can get basically and go from there. How ghastly.

710
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: This is just pretty reality television now, Well, I mean sure,

711
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: I guess. So. Wow. Next up is the Stone of Madness. Well,

712
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of interesting. Because it's not like,

713
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: look at some cool modern reality idea. It's like, well,

714
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: let's take people back to the Stone Age and see

715
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: how they could do. No. I get that, I get that,

716
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: that's cool, but you just know there's a coked up

717
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: producer fifteen feet away. You're really kind of dragging the

718
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: whole thing down as far as the Stone Age goes. Yes. Correct,

719
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: So um, you might be saying, chuck. Uh, well wait

720
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, they're cutting into your head here,

721
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: and yeah, maybe the bone doesn't hurt and the brain

722
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: doesn't have pain receptors, but it's gonna hurt to get

723
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: to the skull. What are they're doing here? Um? And

724
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: it depends on where you are. Um. A lot of

725
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: places supposedly just used restraint. Like you were awake, you

726
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: were not innesthetized. There were just a couple of dudes

727
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: holding you down while whoever was performing the Trepid Nation

728
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: performed the Trepid Nation. Yeah, that's rough. Another thing they

729
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: would do, and to me, this is one of the

730
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: better band names we've had in a while. They would

731
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: use uh somniferous agents and that's you know, depends on

732
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: where you are in the world. And when it is,

733
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: it could be coco extract, could be poppy, it could

734
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: be just getting them super drunk on wine, just basically

735
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: anything to kind of dull somebody out a little bit. Yeah,

736
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: and one of the places that just used restraint was

737
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: among the Kisi I think I'm saying that right, the

738
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: Kisi people uh and Kenya who were practicing this as

739
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: recently as the mid nineties sixties, UM using basically the

740
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: old traditions and uh A, I think an anthropologist Im

741
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: sure El Margetts went back um tive years later, decade

742
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: or two ago and reported that they're still doing the

743
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: trepid nation surgery, but now they're using like local anesthetic

744
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: and some other stuff. But this is still performed in

745
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: some in some places, and um for that reason, there's

746
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: like a group of people in the Western world, UM

747
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: on the Internet even who basically who basically say like, hey,

748
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: you know what the Kisi people are doing in Kenya,

749
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: Like that's part of a really ancient tradition and we

750
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: are here for it. And there's a a trepid Nation

751
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: basically appreciation society that has developed pre Internet, but really

752
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: took off when the Internet came around. Yeah, and there

753
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: are people, and I know this is what we talked

754
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: about at some point because I remember self trepend Nation. Yeah,

755
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: I kind of talking about that. But there was an

756
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: artist name and a lobbyist name, Avanda Amanda Fielding, uh,

757
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: Countess of Wemyss and March whatever that means. And and

758
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: then night is that what that is? Yeah, she's got

759
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: she's royalty. She's a minor royalty. But that's for real.

760
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: I thought it was just something she made up. No, No,

761
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: I think she's ractual royalty all right. Well, in nineteen

762
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: seventy she performed an act of self trep nation. A

763
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: couple of years after that, a man named Pever Halverson

764
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: did it? Peter? Would I say, Pever? Why am I

765
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: sticking VS in there? Leave it to Pever? What is

766
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: going on with me? Can't you just see Peter Halverson

767
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: listening to this? And he's like, oh, they mentioned a

768
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: man Fielding I know I'm next to Can you hit

769
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: him with the Pever? And he's like, man, I'm so sorry, Pete,

770
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: very sorry. Uh. And then there's a guy named Bert.

771
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Bart. You know what the real problem is.

772
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: I have a light off in here, and I can't

773
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: see as well. Oh, I would say that might have

774
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: something to do with it. Yeah, Bart, you just well

775
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: he's Dutch, so I'll bet it's we would say, Bart

776
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: here really just it's probably that. Uh. He is a

777
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: former med student and he got really into this. In

778
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two he had a he wrote something called

779
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: large Mechanism of Brain blood volume one word and he

780
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: said that you know what, a person's level of consciousness

781
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: really depends on how much blood is flowing to the brain.

782
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: Maybe there's something to that, and he said it falls, Uh,

783
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: it falls as we get older, and um, so maybe

784
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: what we should do is trepan ourselves basically and open

785
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: up our creativity. Yeah. His his whole point was that

786
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: if you look at kids, kids are way more creative,

787
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: they're way more free, they enjoy life more, and that

788
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: just so happens that their skulls haven't fully fused. So

789
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: his whole thing was, if you are an adult, your

790
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: skulls fused for the most part, you're you have a

791
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: few skulls. Some very lucky people, um don't ever have

792
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: their skull fused. According to Bart Hughes, and he actually

793
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: apparently talked John and out of self trepen nation or

794
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: being trepanned, because he said, you probably wouldn't notice a

795
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: difference because I suspect that your skull isn't fully fused.

796
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: Your very creative person. Yeah, I don't know that, but real. Yeah.

797
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: But then John Lennon went to recommend trapanning to Paul McCartney,

798
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 1: who said, no, and I can't do that. But this

799
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: guy head, this guy was like a guru of Trepi

800
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: Nation and ended up like creating this following including a

801
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: Mando Fielding and Peter Halverson, and they went on to

802
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: basically carry on this guy's vision. Um. Halverson formed the

803
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 1: International Trepid Nation Advocacy Group. Fielding runs the Beckley Foundation,

804
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: and both of them help people get trepien nation surgery.

805
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: I think from this one surgeon down in Mexico, and

806
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: they all believe that it's like this basically shortcut to

807
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: psychedelic existence and opening up the third eye and becoming

808
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: more spiritual, happier person, and so um, you know, Western

809
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: researchers like, no, this, this goes against science. This doesn't

810
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: make sense. Like, yes, if you have a problem in

811
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: your brain, if there's like if you have inflammation, opening

812
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: up your brain will help with blood flow. We know

813
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: that we perform that surgery. It's trepen nation. We call

814
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 1: it craniotomy, but we do it. But if you're healthy

815
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: and you don't have inflammation in your brain and everything

816
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: is just normal, this is not going to help you.

817
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: And the internet said, I can't hear you. All I

818
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: heard was what these other people said, and it kind

819
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: of took off on the internet first to some extent.

820
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to say it's like huge, but it's

821
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: still got some sort of traction and following on online

822
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: I believe, well, it took off so much that the

823
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 1: British Medical Journal Journal felt the need to say, hey,

824
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: medical establishment, be on the lookout for this. If someone

825
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: shows up that has drilled their head, at least you

826
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: know what's going on. And all the trepen Nation people

827
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, establishment, Yeah, exactly, my freedoms. So yeah,

828
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: that's out there. It's a thing, and it's probably not

829
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: helpful at all. So it's not going to cure depression

830
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: or anxiety or anything like that, which is some of

831
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: the things that tout. So be careful out there, everybody

832
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: meaning to wit. Don't trepan yourself or have somebody else

833
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: trepan you okay, No, the only only groop and you

834
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: should be doing is on that wooden floor. Yeah. I

835
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: love it when we're grooving together. Very nice. Uh you

836
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 1: got anything else? Like nothing else? Well? I don't either,

837
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: So that means that this episode of trepid Nation has

838
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I keep trying to end everything like a

839
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: short stop. Let me do it differently, everybody. If you

840
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: want to know more about trepreate Nation, go read up

841
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: on entrepren Nation. It's pretty interesting stuff. And since I

842
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: said that it's time for a listener mail, I'm gonna

843
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: call this Josh made me quit vaping. Oh I saw

844
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: this one. I was so proud. That's great. Hi, guys.

845
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: Never thought i'd have a reason the email, but now

846
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: I do. I want to say thank you for essentially

847
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: making me want to quit vaping. I was listening to

848
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: your child Labor episode and got to the part where

849
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Speaker 1: Josh said Eve been smoking. Uh started smoking in his

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00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: young teens and and quit in his adult years. I

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00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: only started using a vape one year ago and hadn't

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00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: really considered quitting anytime soon. I just kept telling myself

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00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: I would get around to it. You guys made me

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00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: get around to it. A policy episode. Wow, through the

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00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: vape Away and now I'm one week off of it

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00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: May That's awesome. As a goal, I told myself I

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00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: couldn't listen to the rest of the podcast until September one. Wow.

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00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: I love this uh, and could only listen if I

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00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: avoided vaping. So far, I've had no urge to go back.

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00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for helping me get a jump on

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00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: quitting early on. I believe you saved me from some

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00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: unnecessary future misery. I appreciate everything you guys do, and

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00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: that is from Tim. That's awesome, Tim. I was so

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Speaker 1: glad to hear that. I haven't written him back quite yet,

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00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: but he's in my inbox. Well, I'm gonna tell me

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00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: he made listener mail. So hopefully Tim will be like, uh,

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Speaker 1: won't be like I started vaping again? Right, No, don't

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00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: don't don't do that. Um, congratulations Tim. I really do

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00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: think that was a very good move. And if you

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00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: want to be like Tim, then you just throw your

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00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: vapor away, to throw your pack of cigarettes away and

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00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: get started. It's like, um, It's like Bob Hope always said,

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00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

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00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: That's right, And that was from Tim of course, So

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00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: if you want to write twist like Tim did, you

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00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: can send us an email. Everybody Stuff podcast at iHeart

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00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production

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00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit

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00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.