WEBVTT - Mass Shootings in Buffalo and Laguna Woods 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.200 Talk to your zoom h six about crack cocaine abuse. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.200 Some amount of crack cocaine is perfectly normal for recording 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.040 device you to use. It is part of the recording industry. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.960 But everyone can overdo it. And if your zoom h 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.439 six starts not reading cards, or for example, stealing from 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.920 you in ordered upon your stuff to buy more crack cocaine, 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.640 you might need to do an intervention. This has been 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.040 Robert Evans and a public service announcement about the zoom 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.680 h six handhold recorder. How's that? Are we good? Is 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:38.080 that a good way to introduce a podcast? What depends answer? 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.199 That's a great question, Sophie. Scholars have debated for decades 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.760 which show this is. But personally it is the opinion 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.680 of myself, uh and a large body of researchers at 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.040 Oxford and Cambridge that this is. It could happen here 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.680 a podcast about how things are falling apart and how 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.120 maybe put them back together. One of these days figured out. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:00.760 I'm here with Garrison and Chris. How are you guys? 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:06.399 How how are y'all doing? Just just absolutely splendid. I'm 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.440 extremely excited that every time I leave twitters a new 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.319 mass shooting. There's there was, Like this has been weekend. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:16.760 There have been quite a few mass shootings in the 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.680 last forty eight hours, and there's a non zero chance 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.840 there's been at least one between when we record this 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.800 podcast and when you listen to it. I'm not trying 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.400 to be flippant. That's just a reality. UM. So I 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.520 think we're going to talk about the two most recent ones, 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.920 one of which UM was the mass shooting in Buffalo, 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:41.800 New York by a four chan motherfucking white supremacist very 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.039 much patterned after the twenty nineteen eight Chan shootings, particularly 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.639 the christ Church massacre UM. And then the day after. 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.320 I guess it's not technically a mass shooting because only 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.920 one person was killed, thankfully, UM. But there was a 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.320 shooting that was certainly an attempt to be a mass 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.480 shooting because he attempted to close the exit and stop 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.520 people from leaving at a a Taiwanese church UM in 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.080 southern California, UM, which was stopped by the congregation before 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.440 nearly as many people could get killed. UM. It appears 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:15.600 to be it's just come out UM, motivated by nationalist 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.960 hatred of Taiwan by a Chinese man UM. That's the 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:26.480 broad understanding of both. Its complicated. Yeah, I'm sure we'll 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:32.240 get into that, but we should probably deal with them chronologically. UM. 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:37.040 The Buffalo shooting is it's one of those things I 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.880 made a big chunk of my bones as a journalist 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.680 in the field that I used to spend most of 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.280 my time reporting and covering the eight Chan shootings, and 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:48.800 after every one of those in twenty nineteen, I had 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.640 an article within about two hours. I haven't written anything 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.200 about this one. I don't plan to because there's not 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.040 much to say. It is what we've seen before. UM. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:02:59.840 I know there's some debate over how much of the 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:01.480 man and as there should be over like how much 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.239 of the manifesto you can take at face value, which 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.519 is none of it, um, and as to whether or 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.040 not there might be something more going on here. But 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.120 it is kind of my opinion from the information we have, 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.320 that this is the kind of attack we've seen before 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.240 and the kind of attack we will probably see again 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.519 more than once before the years over. You know, this 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:25.600 is someone who was radicalized primarily against uh the immigration 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.600 or the existence really of people who are not white 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.119 in the United States, um and believes that the best 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.760 way to cleanse the country of people who are not 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.680 white is to carry out mass shootings that will radicalize 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.200 other people and that will lead further to the breakdown 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.040 of civil society in the United States by pushing it 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.920 kind of like hot button issues like gun control, um, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.920 in order to further you know, it's an accelerationist sort 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.360 of attack. UM. So yeah, that's that's what I'm seeing here. Yep. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.000 I mean it's yeah, like like we said, it's very 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.680 very much riffing off of christ Church. I mean, at 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:11.080 least over half of his manifesto was like specifically rich manifesto, which, 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.520 of course that manifesto itself was was ripped from a 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.840 lot of other manifestos. It's kind of this just a 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:21.160 series of like launching the medic language from one shooting 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.360 to another, just kind of compiling into this massive conglomerate 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.880 that's all based on trying to convince more people to 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.960 do the same act. Um. That's really that's that's why 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.440 when people are like talking about this and people try 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.600 to limit the attention on the manifestos and that kind 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.960 of stuff, because it's it's all crafted specifically to get 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.279 other people to do the exact same thing. Um, it's 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.360 it's filled with themes, filmed with filled filled with in jokes, 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.039 full of like in grip up group stuff to convince 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.760 people to kind of go down a similar path, and 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.120 all of it's carefully crafted that way. The one really 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.159 interesting thing about this is that there's not only manifesto 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.000 but also like unless seven hundred pages of diaries that 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.200 he posted as well, um and dogs from from like 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.480 over like like like from a long, long long time, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.120 tracking his inner thoughts. But also like again, he posted 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:10.680 it and he knew he was gonna do this. There's 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.760 no telling how how accurate that is. It's all it's 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.120 all in this package that he wants to present to people. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.520 So a lot of the navy gritty are is not 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.160 even worth talking about in a lot of a lot 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.640 of cases. No, and I'm not I think there's broadly speaking, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:26.960 things you can learn. And I'm also to be clear, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.159 I'm not against researchers studying, and I think it should 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.200 be absolutely I am against just finding a thing in 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.520 there and like posting it. Like when I when I 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.440 made my post, I was pretty careful to note a 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.359 couple of things that seemed consistent based on other aspects 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.080 of the like things that he claimed about his radicalization 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.400 that seemed consistent with what we were seeing. Like he 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.840 noted that he was primarily radicalized online. That seems plausible 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:54.160 to me because of how fucking online the manifesto is. Um. Like, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.560 and and it's one of those folks are not entirely 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.599 wrongfully bringing up the fact that the great Placement white 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.000 genocide sort of conspiracy theory that seems to have motivated 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.120 this fellow is basically identical to Ship Tucker Carlson says, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.720 that's not not that's that's not what radicalized him though, 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.760 But that's not what radicalized Yes, this is not a 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.360 dude who was watching Fox right. That's something I've been 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.720 frustrated by looking at the discourse because yes, obviously Tucker 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.359 shouldn't be talking about this because he's normalizing this very 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.760 rhetoric that you find in these manifestos. But he did. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.320 He did not find this from Tucker. This is like 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.040 it's it's it's a whole whole different ball game. Um. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:33.760 And when there's that conflation, I do find it to 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.560 be slightly frustrating. Yeah, And some of the problem with 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.840 discussing this is the problem with discussing basically any of 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.720 these attacks is that the mass media coverage of it 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.560 is nearly always going to flatten it to a degree 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.440 that works in the favor of the people who are 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.800 using this as propaganda of the deed. Yeah, and we 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.480 can talk about maybe are there ways to detern that, 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.680 you know, I've definitely that's something that I've spent a 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.719 decent amount of my career kind of struggling with. It's 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:09.880 it's a tough thing to do because, um, one of 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:11.920 the things that's very frustrating that we've we've seen in 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.320 the wake of this attack, and that we see in 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:17.960 the wake of basically every politically motivated attack is a 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.880 whole bunch of people from a whole different bunch of 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.720 belief systems insides immediately trying to spin it in order 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.520 to push the narrative they think is useful for the 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.240 attack to have, and some of them believe legitimately what 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:33.880 they're saying. Like the folks, I think most of the 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.240 people who are like this is you know, Tucker Carlson's 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.960 doing are generally just folks who have not spent as 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.880 much time in the fever swamps as we have and 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.280 see oh, Tucker Carlson's talking about this, this this get carried 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:45.880 out of shooting. They must be related, right. I don't 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.600 think that's like, that's wrong, but I don't think that's malicious. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.120 And then you get folks who are malicious with it, right, 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.280 like you have the folks right. One of the one 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.520 of the narratives we've seen form, particularly from what I 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.560 like to call the ship head left, Um, is folks 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.680 being like, well there was a san and Rod the 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.680 black Sun. It's a Nazi a culty symbol. People who 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.560 are more nerds about Nazis we even equipped that. But 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.040 that's that's the broad strokes of what it is. Um. 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.280 And it's it's a symbol that's definitely on some as 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.480 off gear. It's also on a has been on a 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.400 bunch of ship well before there was an since it's 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.960 all over the place. And um, the reason he did it, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.120 the reason he had a black son on some ship 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.320 was not because of the azof Battalion um it. In fact, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.400 he talked about wanting to break up NATO a bunch, 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:34.920 but it was because the san and Rad was on 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.960 the chest of the plate carrier of the christ Schurt shooter. Yes, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:40.960 but there's all, he's a big fan of the christ 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.920 Church shooter. There's all of these people who are like, yeah, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.640 authoritarian left or whatever who are being like, oh, how 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:52.960 can Americans condemn this attack when this guy is using 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.400 as of imagery and there there's no telling how genuine 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.120 they are with this, Like, there's there's no telling if 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.160 if they actually know what they're doing, or if they're 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.760 just or if they're just being like if they're purposely misinformed, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.640 or what's going on. It's like he doesn't mind, it 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:13.760 doesn't matter. But yeah, my my assumption with those folks 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.480 is that they are doing it because if you are 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.880 a competent, paid propagandist, you want to always be pushing 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.320 the narrative in a way that furthers whatever it is 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.160 your job to push. And if your job is connecting 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.080 Ukraine to every bad thing that happens, and a mass 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.400 shooting that has nothing to fucking do with with Ukraine 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.320 or the Ukrainian government, um, if you can connect it 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.760 back to them, then you're back in your wheelhouse, right, 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.160 Because maybe you're not so strong talking about the fact 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.320 that you and some of the people around you have 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.480 been friendly with fucking Tucker Carlson. Uh, and he pushes 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.600 a similar narrative to the one this mass shooter used. 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.320 Maybe that's uncomfortable. What is comfortable is saying, no, this 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.840 guy who did this bad thing is tied to these 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.480 other bad people who are tied to this group, that 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.160 my entire career is about attack sacking. That's a much 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.280 stronger position to be in, you know, if you're you know, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.320 a propagandist. It's just like you see folks on the 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.040 right who don't want to grapple with the fact that 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.560 this was a right wing or who carried out a 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.280 terrorist attack based on an ideology that even motherfucking Ben 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.240 Shapiro has pushed elements of. Um, you don't want to 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.480 deal with that, So you call him a leftist because 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.640 we saw the same thing with christ Turn He could Yeah, 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.760 he made a couple of vague he's not a leftist. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.640 He repeatedly identified himself as right wing and as a fascist, 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:31.440 as a Nazi, UM, as an ethno nationalist, UM. But 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.240 he made like a couple of vague comments that they're 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.000 taking out of context and being like, see, he was 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.400 on the left. What she wanted to happen, that what 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.320 she wanted to happen. That's why he put it in there. Right, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:42.839 It's like it is like it is all part of 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.680 the bit. It's all this, it's it's it's it's all 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.480 of this, like like irony poisoned thing that they do 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.480 on purpose to give any one a propaganda out or 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.360 give anyone a propaganda it's all Yeah, if you'll remember 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.959 it before, it's not it's not new, but it's frustrating. Yeah. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.000 In the christ Church Manifesto, arrant Um said that he'd 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.719 been radicalized by Candice Owens, who's like a person who 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.199 says a bunch of shitty, fucked up stuff. I don't 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.160 like Candace Owens, but like had nothing to do with 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.800 that guy's radicalization, right, Like that's not that's not where 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.520 he's fucking coming from. Um. But he did it because 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.680 he wanted to, because because it's fucking it's ship posting, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.240 you know. It's to muddy the water. It's to get 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:23.439 people like it's too it's to reduce the ability of 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.320 people trying to grapple with what has happened, to accurately 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.920 see what has happened and accurately identify the problem and 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:32.920 respond to a big, big motive for the stuff is 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.719 to cause this kind of social and discourse chaos. Right. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.280 They want people, they want everyone to be confused, and 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.200 they want everyone to be fighting each other and distance 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.800 agreeing on basic terms. Right. The whole, the whole point 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.679 of this is to encourage gun control legislation, which we'll 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.160 get the right match, to cause people be to be 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.760 more willing to do mass shootings or to do a 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.640 tax against government. Right. It's it's it's all part of 0:11:54.679 --> 0:12:01.240 the very basic accelerationist like talking points and tactics, and 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.080 the confusion is not accidental, it's all. It's it's all. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.040 If you, I think a good way to look at this, 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.840 if you like fighter planes and helicopters in a combat 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.640 zone will have a type of countermeasure they will launch 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.280 if someone shooting a missile that's like a tracking missile, 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.800 heat seeking or whatever at them. It's called chaff, and 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:23.319 it basically it looks to the missile the same as 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:25.280 a helicopter does. So you shoot a bunch of these 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.400 out and the missile goes and hits something that's not 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.120 the fucking helicopter, but to its sensors looks like a helicopter. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.880 That's what they're doing. They're shooting out chaff. They're getting 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:37.560 you to like about box with shadows rather than potentially 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.160 landing a blow against like the central problem. And the 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.600 central problem is not an easy one to grapple with 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.120 without all that stuff around it, right, because the the 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.880 issue here is how the way in which the Internet 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.960 enables radicalization, the way in which online communities are prone 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:01.720 to radicalization, UM, the way in which uh, the conservative 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:06.640 media and aspects of like just basic American history play 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.680 into this specific people who want to do violence in 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.320 this way for this reason, um, which is why the 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.880 cops don't notice them even when they're on their radar, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.840 which is why that like the warning signs don't get spotted. Um. 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.160 And the ways in which, I think, more than anything, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.560 the ways in which the Internet has created a perfect 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.199 incubation chamber for radical violence. And that is one of 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.160 the stories here, right. Um. You know people are focusing 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.240 on gun control, um, which this guy bought his gun 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:40.600 in the state of New York, which has the most 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.920 restrictive gun laws in the country. UM. Was more relevant 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.080 even if you're on that end, is this guy was 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.559 deeply involved in like tactical Reddit. This guy was heavily 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.400 involved in in tactical videos and training videos, in talking 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.000 with other people about the best weapons, the best ways 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.559 to use them, and if you watch the I don't 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:04.559 watch the video. But he was competent, he engaged, competently, 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.600 he did, he maximized his ability to do damage. He 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.800 took out somebody, um with a gun who was attempting 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.000 to stop him. Um, that ship, the stuff that he 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.720 did to prepare tactically worked. And the kind of tactical 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.200 chunks of of of reddit of the internet which are 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:23.840 not all right wing, but a hell of a lot 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.000 of them are, and a hell of a lot of 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.240 them have gone in very scary directions in the last 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.640 couple of years. Um. Not only do I suspect contributed 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.200 to his radicalization, but I can say certainly contributed to 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.280 his ability to effectively kill people. Yeah. I mean, he 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.040 had like over five pages just on what helmet he 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.600 picked out. He had pages on what socks he was wearing, 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.240 which is not which is for multiple reasons. It's one 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.160 to make the actual act more effective. It's two to 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.560 inspire not like discourse like this, but also to to 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.160 get people to replicate what he did. Right, It's crafting 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.520 all of these symbols that people like. Oh he picked 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.920 out these socks. I mean, I'm gonna these socks. I'm 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.640 going to get these socks. And it's it's it's all 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.920 this branding thing. Um, we should take we should take 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.400 a break, and then I want to come back and 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.680 talk about some ME medic language stuff. You know who 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:12.040 else can give you good advice on socks? Oh all right, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:24.960 here's ads Okay, Um, I want to talk about some 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.000 ME medic language stuff because this was all heavily riffing 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.000 and I specifically you use the term riffing um off 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.880 of the christ Church shooting, which itself was riffing with 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.200 other stuff, right, but he went so far. I mean 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.760 the christ Church shooting was a copycat shooting of the 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.120 anders Bredvik shooting, or at least descendant of whatever term 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.120 you want to use. But that's what inspired the christ 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:49.800 Church shooting. And it's I mean, he was for for 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.440 the Buffalo shooting. He was testing on different live streaming platforms. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.520 He was doing all the stuff to craft a very 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.640 specific image, and like images are very very very powerful. 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.680 We've talked about like me magic. But if we want 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.280 to get silly about it. Um. But he was very 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.320 very much involved in crafting these things that could be 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.400 replicated visually. Um. That's that's why he wanted to live stream. 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.920 It's so bad. It's that he just the same way, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.240 the same way of christ Church was. And this is 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.000 like really important for why we don't share this type 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.920 of stuff and why we why we specifically clamped down 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.200 on this, on this, on this style of propaganda, and 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.240 why we really encourage people not to share it, not 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:29.920 to look at it, not to do that stuff. Because 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.720 he he does in a few parts of the manifest 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.160 that he did right, Um, he does. He didn't say 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.680 like watching the christ Church video was very impactful for him, 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.680 which I don't disagree with. I'm sure, I'm sure it was. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.520 He he did change, he even and he did great 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.200 links to recreate um. And this is why we people 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.720 who are like researchers and people who kind of hand 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.080 try to handle this kind of stuff um in like 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.080 in their time on Earth, Uh, are so particular about this. 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.240 Like a thing last year, like a year and a 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.640 half ago, there was this film company based in New 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.200 Zealand who wanted to make a christ Church film. Uh. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.520 And they want they were going to film a recreation 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.320 of the shooting, but they said, like, oh, but it's 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.520 too to show the horror and to show the impact 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.000 hit on the victims doesn't fucking matter. It matter, It 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.960 matters zero amount, because once you put that language into cinematography, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.720 you are giving them basically ammunition to help create propaganda 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.879 and will get more more people killed. This is why 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.320 the same thing we see the same thing on fucking 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.720 um roadblocks, we see people recreate the christ Church shooting 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.960 on roadblocks. There was actually a major problem like a 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.600 year ago. Specifically, it was a huge problem of people 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.440 recreating the footage inside this game engine. And it's it's specifically, 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.119 it's it's very it's a very powerful tool that they 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.359 used to spread around. It's targeted specifically people ages twelve 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.760 to eighteen. This this guy was eighteen years old. Um, 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.199 it's he was heavily involved in online gaming. He was 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.879 really heavy Reddit user, specifically, um he loved discord. So 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.680 it's these are the places where where it spreads even 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.960 more so than now to Yeah, and I would say, 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:07.840 we know and that called him like a four chance 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.399 shooter because number one he definitely was familiar with with 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.400 Pole and number was there, he announced his livestream there. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.439 I do agree with you read it was a bigger 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.360 part of his radicalization. I suspect, and in a lot 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.600 of and Discord probably, and I suspect he did purposefully 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.680 minimize the extent to which conversations on discord were part 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.840 of his radicalization journey in particular, that would be my 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.199 assumption at the moment. But for countering this type of rhetoric, 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.440 in this type of propaganda, right, because they're they're trying 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.560 to make themselves look cool, They're trying to make themselves 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.880 look tactical. They're trying to look they're trying to make 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.359 themselves they look like they're in a video game. They 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:42.720 make it look like they're in a movie. Right, They're 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.879 trying to be cinematic. He was, he was testing on 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.560 different cameras. Um he tested like a go pro. He 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.560 just said, he test out his phone camera, right, trying 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.000 to get this specific look. And then we just we 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.560 just talked about how he was tactically proficient in some ways, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.480 but in handling this type of thing, we have to 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.240 when we're crafting counter stuff to make this, to make 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.679 this thing less likely, we need to not even focus 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:08.800 on that we need to make them look stupid, make 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.959 them look juvenile, make them look like they're pathetic, make 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.440 them look like they're stupid and silly, like they're Larper's. 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.440 That's one of the things that saved god knows how 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.919 many lives at kind of the high point of the 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.960 eight Chance shootings in nineteen was that fucker in Hall, 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.640 Germany tried to carry one out and got the piss 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.040 beat out of him by a dude at a mosque 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.439 um and was photographed the next day in court just covered. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:38.160 It's like beat two ship um. That image probably saved 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.040 some lives. They want to be cool, they want to 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.119 be mamdic, they want to be spread around as a symbol, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.560 and we need, like culturally, need to. Yes, this is 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.040 obviously very scarce, this is a very real threat for 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.119 many for many people, many people of color, many black people, 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.159 many many Muslims, people of different religions, Jewish people, queer people. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.919 But we need to when when specifically crafting rhetoric and 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.240 propaganda against these things, we need to make them look pathetic, 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.920 right that that that's what it needs to be framed as, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.800 because if you make them look scary and competent, that's 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.800 actually gonna make these things worse because they love that, right, 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.320 Like as if you film the Christ, if you do 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.399 any kind of like movie about the Christ shooting, no 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.520 matter how you shoot it, they're gonna love it. If 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:25.840 you're shooting people in pain, they they want that. They 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.840 want that. It's that's that's what they're looking for. You 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.159 need to specifically frame this as these people larning and 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:37.200 these people being pathetic and people being terminally online um 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.040 and having bad social skills like you need, you need. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.440 You need to frame it in this way that makes 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.480 them look not desirable because their whole point is to 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:49.680 craft is desirable and visually stunning propaganda. Um. And I think, yeah, 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.399 that's that's that's I've been thinking about this for the 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.280 past because it's just been so much. But like I 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.120 identify these people, isn't the problem? Right? Like this guy 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.159 he is he was talked to you by by counselors 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.240