1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: Hello everyone. Quick note that this episode is part two 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: of my conversation with theoretical physicist Matt Stressler about his 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: new book Waves in an Impossible Scene. If you haven't 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: yet heard part one, pause this episode and go back 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: listen to the first part. This stuff is hard enough 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: without listening to it backwards, so do the first things first. 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: Pause this episode and come right back. We'll wait for you. Hi. 8 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 9 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and welcome to the podcast. Daniel and Jorge 10 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: explain the Universe, in which we dig deep into the 11 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: nature of space and time and particles, in which we 12 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: want you to understand our new ideas about how the 13 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: universe works and be bewildered with us about everything we 14 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: don't understand about the universe. Today we have an unusual episode, 15 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: and then it's part two. This is the second half 16 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: of my conversation with Professor Matt Stressler. In the first 17 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: part of the conversation, we reviewed relativity. How waves travel 18 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: through media, but light waves seem to travel through empty space. 19 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: How you can measure the speed of most waves like sound, 20 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 1: relative to their medium, but you can't measure the speed 21 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: of light relative to space, only to other things in space. 22 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: Matt is painting us a careful and insightful picture of 23 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: how everything is made out of waves, and why that's 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: crucial to understanding the last, the craziest, the most recent 25 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: wave to be discovered, waves in the Higgs field. So 26 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: here is part two of my conversation with Matt. Give 27 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: us a glimpse of how your mind works, how you 28 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: see the universe as being built out of waves, and 29 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: why you think this is so important for understanding the 30 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: Higgs field. 31 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: I'll take you through that in a few steps, but 32 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: the most important to start with is we have to 33 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: deal with words. And this is a theme of the 34 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: book because I think it's a theme of human affairs 35 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 2: in general, and it's certainly a theme of scientific communication. 36 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And physics is terrible about words. I mean, 37 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: we use names for things totally inappropriately. Quarks have color 38 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: and flavor, Like, what are we talking about here? Why 39 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: don't we just invent new words to describe new things? Right? 40 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: And we used to? I mean, you know, this is 41 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: in some sense of mid twentieth century development. But that said, 42 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: in order to think about things ourselves, we often borrowed 43 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: words from English, and particle is one of them. Wave 44 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: is another force, even theory. We have lots of words 45 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: that are part of physics dialect that we have taken 46 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: from English. And we humans, just in ordinary language, are 47 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: spectacularly good at using a single word with many definitions, 48 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: right we all know. You go to the dictionary and 49 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: you look up simple words and there's twelve definitions of 50 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: the same word. And yet in language we communicate with 51 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: each other switching definitions all the time. We may use 52 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: the same word in one sense in two different ways 53 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: and it doesn't bother us. Well, this is true of 54 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: physicists as well. We have our dialect, some words have 55 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: multiple meanings. We switch back and forth without a problem. 56 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: But of course, when you are switching dialects, when you 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: are trying to communicate physics to a non physics speaking 58 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: English speaker, just as when you try to switch from 59 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: French to English and you're trying to use words that 60 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: have multiple meanings without even thinking about it, you may 61 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: easily confuse your listener. And we do this all the time. 62 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: So they are famous phrases like an electron is part particle, 63 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: part way, it's a wave, part of the time, and 64 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: it's a particle part of the time. And aside from 65 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: the fact that that could mean many different things, and 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: over history it has meant at least two different things 67 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: to two different classes of people. It's really problematic that 68 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: the word particle has multiple meanings and the word wave 69 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: has multiple meanings, and the most common meanings in English 70 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: are not the ones that we are using here. So 71 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: we will not get anywhere if I don't spend a 72 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 2: minute on those definitions. So I'll start with wave. We'll 73 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: talk about waves for a while, because waves are such 74 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: a wonderful phenomenon. They underlie so many aspects. Obviously, I'm 75 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: the sound I'm using to communicate and the radio waves 76 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: that we're using to send all this information back and forth. 77 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: And also they're the fundamentals in music, just surrounded by 78 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: music in our modern world in the best and we're 79 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: senses and we should take a moment to think about 80 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: what we mean. And one thing we do not mean 81 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: is the thing that everybody means when they go to 82 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: the beach. Right, you go to the beach, Oh, that 83 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: is a great wave. I want to serf that one. Ooh, 84 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: here comes a big wave. Okay, what do we mean. 85 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: We mean, here comes a big crest in the water, 86 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: a big high point in the water, and it is 87 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: separated from the next high point by two low points, 88 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: and we call that crest a wave. That is not 89 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: what we are talking about here. We are not made 90 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: from single wave crests. No. Yet, the word wave as 91 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: used in science is a rich concept. There are waves 92 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: of many different shapes and sizes. For example, I'm speaking 93 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: now making sound waves, or if you're a recording engineer, 94 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: you will say I'm making a sound wave singular. So 95 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: a wave can be a very complicated shape. But to 96 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: keep things focused, let's talk about the simplest waves. And 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: the simplest waves are the ones that you make when 98 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: you sing. You sing a note, or you make a 99 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: pure tone on a musical instrument, and then you are 100 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: making a wave which consists of a whole bunch of 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: high points and a whole bunch of low points, a 102 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: whole bunch of crests and troughs equally spaced, and it 103 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: may be a long series of them. 104 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: So imagine like a sine wave extending all the way 105 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: from negave infinity to positive infinity along the x axis 106 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: or something. 107 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: If you like your tenth grade, eleventh grade math, Yes exactly, 108 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: or if you don't, it's just the ripples that you 109 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: would make in a pond. If you put your hand 110 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: in the water and moved it up and down regularly, 111 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: you would get a set of ripples. It would move outward. 112 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 2: That's a wave in science rather than a set of waves. 113 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 2: So it's more what a beach gore would call a 114 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: wave set or a wave train. And now even that 115 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: has a subtlety which I'll come back to you. But 116 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: of the types of waves that we encounter which scientists 117 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: talk about, there are two types, both of which are 118 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 2: really important and which have slightly different properties. And the 119 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: first one is the one that you would talk about 120 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: when you're talking about sound waves most of the time 121 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: from my voice to your ears. Those are traveling waves, 122 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: traveling meaning, as you would guess, they're moving in a 123 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: certain direction at a certain speed. And traveling waves include sound, 124 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: they include ocean waves, they include the seismic waves which 125 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: across the earth. They include light waves which cross the universe, 126 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: and they include the things we call particles and when 127 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: they're moving around. And the other type of wave that 128 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: we encounter is standing waves and standing waves have crests 129 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: and troughs that don't go anywhere. They just sort of 130 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: vibrate in place. So a classic example would be the 131 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: way in which a guitar string or a violin string 132 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: vibrates pluck it. It goes up and down and up 133 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: and down and up and down. There's a crest where 134 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: it bends upward, and then a moment later it's a 135 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: trough where it bends downward, and it goes up and 136 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: down and up and down and up and down. Or 137 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: maybe the air vibrating in an organ pipe. When you 138 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: make the organ pipe sound, what you're doing is you're 139 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: making the air inside ripple back and forth where it's 140 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: more dense in one place and then less dense, and 141 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: it goes back and forth and back and forth in 142 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: a regular repeating fashion. But it's not actually moving outside 143 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: the organ pipe. It's staying in the organ. OK. So 144 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: we have these two different types of waves, traveling waves 145 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: which move around, standing waves which they put and in 146 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: the case of traveling waves, as I described, it's not 147 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: a single wave crest, it's a whole set of them. 148 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: With standing waves, it can be any number of crests, 149 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 2: including just one. So it's still not a wave at 150 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: the beach because the wave of the beach is moving. 151 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: But it can be as simple as a wave at 152 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: the beach in the case of a guitar string, for example. 153 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: So we have these distinctions, which we're gonna have to 154 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: keep track of for a minute, between traveling waves and 155 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: standing waves. And what I want to emphasize is how 156 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: important both types of waves are in music. You can't 157 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: have music without both of them. And the reason is 158 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: that what you do when you play the guitar, or 159 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: play a piano or play an organ is you're creating 160 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 2: a standing wave somewhere on the instrument. You're making a 161 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: wave in a part of the instrument that doesn't have 162 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: to move anywhere. It's staying on the instrument. The instrument 163 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: is not moving. There's a piece of it that's vibrating 164 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: back and forth, but it's vibrating in place. 165 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: So the guitar string has a standing wave on it exactly. 166 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 2: But that standing wave then creates traveling waves in the air, 167 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: and those sound waves then move outward a wave from 168 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: the instrument and eventually reach the ears of listeners. So 169 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: you need both of them. You need something to happen 170 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: on the instrument, and then you need that whatever it 171 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: is to create waves that can go somewhere and be heard. 172 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: And this brings up the most important distinction between these 173 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: two types of waves for the purposes of particle physics, 174 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: aside from the fact that one of them goes somewhere 175 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: the other doesn't, which is that traveling waves can vibrate 176 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: at any frequency you like, standing waves cannot. So what 177 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: do I mean by that, Well, when you pluck a 178 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: guitar string, assuming you're not putting your hands on it anywhere, 179 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: just you just take the guitar string as it is 180 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 2: and you pluck it. Where you take a violin and 181 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: string and you pluck it, or you take a string 182 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: on a piano and you hammer it, you will get 183 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: one tone and it's the same tone every time. And 184 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: so a musical instrument like a piano or like a 185 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: guitar piano is a better example because with guitars, we 186 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 2: put our hands on the instrument shortened the strings of 187 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: it gets complicated, and a piano, we just hit the strings. 188 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: We only get the notes we get. We can't get 189 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 2: notes in between, because each string gives you a particular note, 190 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: and so you know there are eighty eight notes on 191 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: a piano keyboard, and we have eighty eight sets of strings, 192 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: one for each. 193 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: Note, and each one is a different length, etc. And 194 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: that's what gives them the different. 195 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: Notes, different length and tension. But yes, each one has 196 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: a particular frequency associated with it, and the reason for 197 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: this is a phenomenon known as resonance. It's the same 198 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: reason that when we strike a pendulum or make a 199 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: pendulum swing back and forth, as in the old pendulum 200 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 2: clocks of previous generations, they vibrate with a predictable frequency. 201 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: And this predictability and this single mindedness, this resonance phenomenon, 202 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 2: is what allows us to make musical instruments of most types, 203 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: because most musical instruments, the human voice being an exception, 204 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: are not designed to make all possible notes. They're designed 205 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: to make some set of them. But fortunately this is 206 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: not true of traveling waves, which can have any frequency. 207 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: And if you think about it, that's essential in music. 208 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: Suppose that air and its waves could only carry specific frequencies, well, 209 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: then you'd have to match your instrument to the air 210 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: or the sound just wouldn't go anywhere. Whereas in fact, 211 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: musical instruments of any frequency, or if you sing a note, 212 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: no matter what note you see, it will always travel 213 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: through the air because traveling waves are free to go out, 214 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: they're flexible. So that's a key distinction that standing waves 215 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: have to do with resonance and traveling waves have to 216 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: do with non resonant phenomena and can have any frequency 217 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: they like. OK, this is as I said, It's key 218 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: for music, but it's also key for the. 219 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: Universe connected to us. For the universe, how do this 220 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: concept of standing waves and traveling waves help us understand 221 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: what we're made out of and how everything works. 222 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: There's certain things about light and light waves, which are 223 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: essential features of all the waves of the universe, but 224 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 2: there's also a thing they don't have. Light waves are 225 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: always traveling waves, or precisely, lightwaves in empty space are 226 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: always traveling waves. You can do things in materials to 227 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: make them do other things, but that's not really critical. 228 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 2: I'm trying to focus our attention on what happens in 229 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 2: empty space, and lightwaves can cross empty space just fine, 230 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: no matter what their frequency. Radio waves, microwaves, gamma rays, 231 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: X rays, and visible light. They all cross the universe 232 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: at the speed of light, and they have no problem 233 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: with that, and they can have any frequency you like, 234 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: all the colors that we can see, and then all 235 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: the other frequencies that our eyes cannot detect, but our 236 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: scientific instruments can. So light waves are of a certain sort, 237 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: and there are a couple of other types of waves 238 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: that are part of the cosmos. Gravitational waves are another 239 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: example that have this property. They're only traveling lives. But 240 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: the waves that we are made from that ultimately we 241 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: call electrons or the quarks out of which protons and 242 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: neutrons are made. These waves can both travel and stand, 243 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: and that's connected with the fact that the particles that 244 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: we call electrons can move and they can also stop, 245 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: whereas the particles that are associated with light, which we 246 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 2: call photons, they cannot stop in empty space. They always 247 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: are traveling. 248 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: So we talk about this on the podcast sometimes and 249 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: we say that particles can have energy of motion, the 250 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: kinetic energy they're moving through the universe, but they can 251 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: also have energy in their mass. Right so electron just 252 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: sitting there has energy inside of it. It's equals mc squared, 253 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: but that photons only have energy of motion. 254 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 2: For example, right now, we have to be careful about 255 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: language again because the word mass is also ambiguous. We 256 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: are specifically talking about what scientists referred to as rest mass, 257 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: which is the mass that's intrinsic to an object. You 258 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: will also hear people say that mass increases with speed. 259 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,479 Speaker 2: They are talking about a different type. 260 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: Of mass, right, And we had a whole podcast episode 261 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: about relativistic mass and why it's actually just to stand 262 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: in for energy, and so people should go dig into 263 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: that if they're curious. But here we're talking about mass 264 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: as being the energy of an object at rest. 265 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: That's right, And so photons don't have any and effectively 266 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: that's why they can never stop. But electrons and quarks 267 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: and most of the different types of particles that we 268 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: know about so far in the universe, most of them 269 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: do indeed have the ability to be at re and 270 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: they have a certain amount of energy even when they're 271 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: at rest, and that energy, via equals mc squared, translates 272 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: into what we call their mass, which is the difficulty 273 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: for anyone to make them go from at rest to 274 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: moving at a certain speed. It's a form of stubbornness. 275 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: If a rock has mass, it's the statement that you're 276 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: going to have to make an effort if you want 277 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: to throw it across the room. 278 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: I hear you trying to avoid using the word inertia. 279 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: You're explaining all the same concepts where you're not using 280 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: that word. 281 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: Why is that, Well, inertia has, like most words in English, 282 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: has a couple of different meanings. Right, Inertia is certainly 283 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: a notion of the difficulty of making something stop in English, Right, 284 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: if something has inertia, you mean that I'm not going 285 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 2: to be able to change its direction or slow it 286 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: down very much. It's going to continue doing what it's 287 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: doing via inertia. But what scientists mean by inertia is 288 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: subtly different from that. It's not exactly the same. So 289 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: it's another word which requires a discussion. And the unnecessary 290 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: discussions are ones that I don't I don't avoid because 291 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: they're not worth having. But we only have so much time, 292 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: and there's only so many pages in a book. We 293 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: have to pick our battles carefully, so I decided not 294 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: to pick that one. 295 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: All right. I have a bunch more questions for Matt 296 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: about how the universe works and how we can really 297 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: understand the Higgs field correctly. But first, let's take a 298 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: quick break. Okay, we're back and we're talking to Professor 299 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: Matt Stressler, author of the new book Waves in an 300 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: Impossible See, who wants us to really understand how the 301 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: universe is all made of waves and how that's crucial 302 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: to understanding how particle physics and the Higgs Boson works. 303 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: All right, so now you've described the universe to us 304 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: in terms of waves, and you're saying that particles that 305 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: have mass are little standing waves, and particles in motion 306 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: are traveling waves. And this is kind of re utionary 307 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: way to think about the universe, but it's also something 308 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: we hear about sometimes, like particles are ripples and quantum fields, 309 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: they're not actually little dots of stuff. And so I 310 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: went out there and I asked our listeners to give 311 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: us their sort of mental image of these things, because 312 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: I wanted us to be able to calibrate this conversation, 313 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: and also I was curious your reaction to some of 314 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: these thoughts. So I asked our listeners to give us 315 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: their mental picture of an electron, and then I also 316 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: asked them to give us their mental picture of a 317 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 1: ripple in a quantum field, which was a little bit 318 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: of a trick question because you know, we think of 319 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: an electron as a ripple in a quantum field. I 320 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: was curious if listeners had the same mental picture for 321 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: these two or not. So here's what listeners had to 322 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: say for the mental picture of an electron, and those 323 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: of you out there listening, pause for a moment and think, 324 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: what is your mental picture of an electron. 325 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 3: My mental image of an electron is probably still from 326 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 3: back in my Navy days when I learned electronics, a 327 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 3: group of a small little marbles surrounded by a one 328 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: or more spinning marbles in an orbit around the center, 329 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 3: looking more like a nuclear power plant logo or something. 330 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 4: I see an electron as kind of like a ripple, 331 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 4: almost like in space itself, in a certain way that 332 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 4: you can squeeze closer together in anyone direction, so you 333 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 4: can look at it closer and closer in anyone direction, 334 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 4: but as you squeeze it, it gets bigger in the 335 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 4: other directions, keeping you from like localizing it. I used 336 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: to think of it as a particle, but that didn't 337 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 4: super make sense to me, because you can always localize 338 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 4: it down smaller, so it would have no volume. So 339 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 4: I think of it as a ripple in something though 340 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 4: I'm not really sure what. 341 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 5: Well, I don't know, like a little fuzzy blob that's 342 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 5: right where I see it, except it's not where I 343 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 5: see it, because something about observing something changes it. But 344 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 5: it's not really there anymore. 345 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: And here's what people say when I asked them what 346 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 1: they thought about a quantum field ripple. 347 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 3: I would have to say the best way to describe 348 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 3: for me is like looking at a piece of lasagna 349 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 3: with ripples in at lengthwise. That's the only thing I 350 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 3: can think of, like a. 351 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: Wave in a pond, but without the vertical more of 352 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: a horizontal side side. 353 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 4: In a lot of ways, it's the same thing as 354 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 4: a particle to me. It's really just a wave that's 355 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 4: sort of localized in one space. 356 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: When I think about a quantum field, I see the 357 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: image of a three dimension of great space moving. 358 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 6: Like a wave. 359 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 5: It's like the geometry of existence shifts. It doesn't look 360 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 5: like it normally does, and you can almost see through 361 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 5: to the other side of it. 362 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 7: Pretty much. I think as you would have a ripple 363 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 7: in a pond if you threw a stone in so 364 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 7: concentric series of waves heading away but getting less in magnitude, 365 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 7: but trying to imagine that is going out in three 366 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 7: dimensions as opposed to two. 367 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 8: Well, actually it's a black space surrounded by a water 368 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 8: like wave small one. 369 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 9: That is, so if you imagine an infinite plane and 370 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 9: then someone takes I don't know around, you know, lollipopper sucker, 371 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 9: and this plane is somehow elastic, are made of rubber, 372 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 9: and you push up on that plane, except that it 373 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 9: only wants to deform locally. It doesn't stretch out evenly 374 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 9: across the width of the plane. I sort of envision 375 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 9: it as a large plane with like a sort of 376 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 9: three D parabolic shape pushed up into it. 377 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 6: I guess I kind of picture a sheet that you've 378 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 6: been pulled taut and then shake it like a salt shaker. 379 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 10: I picture a quantum field being kind of like a 380 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 10: transparent sphere, and then a ripple in it would be 381 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 10: like a little light bulb or something in the middle 382 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 10: flicking on. 383 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: So quite a variety of answers here, Matt, What do 384 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: you think about these mental pictures of electrons versus quantum fields. 385 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: Do any of these aligned with the way you think 386 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: about it? 387 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 6: Well? 388 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 2: I love this range of answers because I think it 389 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: points out a range of fascinating challenges that both non 390 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 2: scientists have and trying to understand what physicists are saying, 391 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: and physicists have and journalists are trying to convey the 392 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 2: stuff have in trying to come up with a language 393 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: that is clear enough, and of course some of the 394 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: things we've been talking about, the difficulty of understanding the 395 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 2: word wave as scientists use it and don't use it 396 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 2: is one of the difficulties because if your image of 397 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: an electron is as a single crest in water, well 398 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: that may or may not work very well. For example, 399 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: if your image of a photon, a particle of light 400 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: is as a single crest. If your mental image somehow 401 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 2: takes a light wave that consists of many crests and 402 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: it divides it into its individual crests, well then it's 403 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: confusing because why would a photon if it's just a 404 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 2: single crest have a frequency or a wavelength. Wavelength has 405 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 2: to do with how far apart the crests are. You 406 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 2: end up in puzzles that you can't pull yourself out of. 407 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 2: And then we have the problem of the word particle. 408 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: We haven't talked about it yet. So let's spend a 409 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 2: moment on that. In English, we have all sorts of 410 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: things that we would refer to as a particle, a dust, particle, 411 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 2: it's a tiny little thing that it looks a little 412 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: bit like a ball or something, you know, ball like 413 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: but small, A particle of sand, it's a grain, it's 414 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: a little thing. You could put it in your hand, 415 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: it'll just sit there. And that is a concept of 416 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 2: particle which is reinforced for those who do take physics 417 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 2: in freshman year, that's the way it's talked about. For 418 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: those who even go on to junior year quantum physics, 419 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: that's still kind of the way it's talked about. Even 420 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 2: though there's some wavelike things that come in when we 421 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: talk about particle, we still sort of envision this thing 422 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: with a position. And if you've read about quantum physics 423 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: just as a layperson, and you read what Neils Bore, 424 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: the great quantum physics pioneer, had to say about the electrons, 425 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: he said, sometimes they're like particles, sometimes they're like waves. 426 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: And what did he mean. He meant that it's an 427 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: object with a position. But come nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, 428 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 2: slowly but surely, the math stopped talking about electrons that way. 429 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: And the weird thing is that the language of physicists 430 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: it's took much longer to change, and even the way 431 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: I was taught, because first I learned junior quantum physics, 432 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: in which we think of particles as things with positions 433 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 2: and moving around. Maybe you can't specify how they move 434 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: around as well as you did, but a particle is 435 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: an object with a position that moves around on some path. 436 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 2: That is not what we mean when we talk about 437 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: elementary particles, not since the nineteen fifties or so, and 438 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: instead we mean something much stranger and much less familiar. 439 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 2: And so I'll come back to that, but you need 440 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: to step away from the notion of particle that's in 441 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: your head, and a notion which is hard to step 442 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: away from because, as a number of listeners sort of 443 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: referred to, there is this cartoon of an atom, which 444 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: is a part of our culture. It consists of a 445 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 2: blob at the center made of neutrons and protons, with 446 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 2: these electrons going around in orbits outside, and the electron 447 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 2: is drawn as a dot usually blue. Okay, it's not blue, 448 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: but it's also not a ball or a dot. That's 449 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 2: not the right way to think about it, and this 450 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: is critically important if you want to understand why an 451 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: electron has mass. Why does an electron that is at 452 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 2: rest have any energy if it's just the dot, why 453 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: would there be any in there? Where would it come from? 454 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 2: You know, that's a fundamental puzzle, and understanding that electrons 455 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,239 Speaker 2: are waves in the nineteen fifties language of what is 456 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: the math of what is known as quantum field theory 457 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: is where we get our modern notion of what electrons 458 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: are and what their mass consists of. And in that picture, 459 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: electrons are not to be thought of as dots going 460 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: around on paths. Now, quantum physics of the nineteen twenties 461 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: already taught us that, but even the word particle as 462 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: we use it in quantum field theory should not be 463 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 2: thought of in that way. So let's now take a 464 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: step back with that rather cryptic remark and look at 465 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 2: what the language of quantum field theory really tells us 466 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: about electrons and photons, because we should kind of do 467 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: them in parallel. Remembering there's this difference that electrons can 468 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 2: be standing waves or traveling waves, but photons are easier 469 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 2: to think about because we know something about them in life, 470 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: and our eyes absorb them. Let's kind of do them 471 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 2: a little bit in parallel. So the real surprise about 472 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: light is that it doesn't behave like we'd expect waves 473 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: to behave. And yet another way, and one way to 474 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: talk about that is to talk about sound. We have 475 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 2: this naive notion which makes perfect sense that if you 476 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 2: speak at a certain volume, you could speak at half 477 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: that volume and then the sound would be quieter, or 478 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: you could speak at half of that volume and then 479 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: be even quieter, and half of that and be even quieter, 480 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: and you could keep going, you know, sort of a 481 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: you know's paradox kind of thing. Divide in half and 482 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: then divide in half and find and you can just 483 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 2: speak in a quieter and quieter voice as far down 484 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: as you like. And you could have the same idea 485 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: about a beam of light like a laser, like a 486 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: laser pointer, that you could, you know, sort of turn 487 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 2: it down so it's half as bright, and turn it 488 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: down so it's half as bright again, and half is 489 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 2: bright again every time, we just get a dimmer beam, 490 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: and you could go down as far as you like 491 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 2: to infinity. It's not true, and it's similar to the 492 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 2: idea that if you were a person who'd never seen 493 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: paper before, and you were given a gigantic stack of 494 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: paper six feet high, you might not initially realize that, oh, 495 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: this thing is actually made of a large number of 496 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: sheets of paper. It's so big you don't recognize it. 497 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 2: But of course if you took the thing apart, you 498 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 2: would realize, oh, this stack of paper is made from 499 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 2: a huge number of individual sheets. In a similar non 500 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: obvious way, a light wave and again that's a series 501 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 2: of crests and troughs corresponding to a laser beam, can 502 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: be pulled apart into individual lit miniature waves and again 503 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: wave meaning a series of crests and troughs stacked together 504 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: to make something bright, but made from a huge number 505 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: of things that are extremely dim. And so you can't 506 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: take your bright thing and make it half as bright 507 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: and half as bright and half as bright again, any 508 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: more than you could take your stack of paper and 509 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: divide it in half, and divide it in half, and divide 510 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 2: and half forever, you would eventually reach individual sheets, and 511 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 2: you couldn't go any further. Well, that's the way it 512 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: is with laser light. It's not obvious, but you can 513 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: break laser light up in half and again and again, 514 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 2: and you will eventually find yourself with something indivisible in 515 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: individual indivisible flashes of light, which we call photons. And 516 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: it was Einstein who proposed this without really fully understanding 517 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 2: yet how it would work. But he's responsible for this 518 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: idea too. So that's our first image of what photons are. 519 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 2: But remember, particle physicists call them particles. But you see, 520 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: they're not dots. They're like laser beams, only much dimmer. 521 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: Right, They're flashes. They're not dots. 522 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 2: They are particulate in the sense of indivisible, but they 523 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: are not particle like in the sense of dust boats 524 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: or sand grains. They don't have that shape. That's really 525 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: critically important. And what I've just told you about photons 526 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 2: is also true of electrons. They are not dots. They 527 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 2: are waves of minimal height, minimal brightness, you could say. 528 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: All of course, we understand the word brightness for light. 529 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: The word we use is intensity. In the scientific context, 530 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: we would say light has a certain intensity and there's 531 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: a minimum intensity that it can have, and electrons, in 532 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: a sense, are waves in something with a minimum intensity. 533 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: And the question now, though, is all right, But the 534 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: light waves they're always traveling. With electrons, they could be 535 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: traveling or they could be standing what's the difference. And 536 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: as you make an electron slow down, which you could 537 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: do with a battery nothing special, you can ask yourself, well, 538 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 2: how is the electron changing shape? Does it still look 539 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: like a long series of crests and troughs. And the 540 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: slower it is, the more it looks like just one 541 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: or two crests and troughs. And by the time you 542 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 2: slowed it down, it really does look a lot like 543 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: the ripple on a guitar string, just one crest standing still. 544 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: It's still vibrating, though like a guitar string, it's going 545 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: up and down. In some sense, it's diving back and forth. 546 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: It's doing something that's i mean, exactly how you visualize 547 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 2: it is a bit of a matter of taste. But 548 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: what's for sure is it might be standing still, but 549 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean it's not doing anything. 550 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: It's a standing wave, it's a vibration. 551 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: It's a standing wave. So standing waves don't go anywhere, 552 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: but they're still doing something. And that picture an electron, 553 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 2: rather than being a dot, is a vibrating thing is 554 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 2: critical to understanding what it is and how it works. 555 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: And in particular, unlike a dot, which if it's moving, 556 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: would have motion energy, but if it's stopped, doesn't seem 557 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 2: dive energy at all. A vibrating thing has energy even 558 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: when it's not going anywhere. Ah, that's where the E 559 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: comes from. That gives us the mass the mc squared, 560 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: it's the energy of the vibration, and that's generally true. 561 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: That's fundamentally how particle physics works. The particles that have 562 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: mass can be slowed to a stop, at which point 563 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: they are standing waves. But they are not standing and 564 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: doing nothing. They are standing and vibrating, and they have 565 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 2: a certain amount of energy associated with them. So that 566 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 2: is why the particles of nature have a variety of 567 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: specific masses. They're standing waves, and remember, traveling waves can 568 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 2: have any energy you like, but standing waves tend to 569 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: have a specific energy associated with the idea of resonance. 570 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: So an electron is a little vibration of the electron field, 571 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: and when it's at rest, it's vibrating at the resinant 572 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: frequency of the electron field, and the muon fields has 573 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: its own resonant frequency, and the quark fields have their 574 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: own resonant frequency, and that's what gives all these particles 575 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: different masses. 576 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: That's the bigger picture, right. So up to this point, 577 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: I've really only explained that the electron is a resonant, 578 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 2: vibrating thing, but I haven't told you what it's a 579 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: vibration of. And that does bring us back to the 580 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: question at the very beginning when I suggested that you know, 581 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 2: we're made of waves, but I avoided the question of 582 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 2: what we are waves in. Yeah, and I said, well, 583 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: maybe we're waves of the universe in some sense, and 584 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: scientists don't know what we are waves in in some 585 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 2: sort of deep sense, but we do know something. We 586 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: understand how these waves work. And the language that we 587 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: use is the language of fields, which are things that 588 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 2: are present everywhere in the universe, the most famous being 589 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: the electric field or the magnetic field, which scientists put 590 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,239 Speaker 2: together into the electromagnetic field that you treat them as 591 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 2: a single unit. And waves in the electromagnetic field are 592 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:31,479 Speaker 2: what we call light. And there are again these quote particles, namely, 593 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 2: the dimmest possible wave in the electromagnetic field is what 594 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: we call a photon, a quote particle of light. So 595 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: that gives us a conceptual package where Okay, there's something 596 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 2: called the electromagnetic field that's an aspect of the universe. 597 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: We don't really understand what it is, but we understand 598 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 2: how it works. We know that it has waves, and 599 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 2: those waves have the dimmest possible flash associated with them, 600 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: the dimmest possible wave, and those waves are what we 601 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 2: call particles. Although, as I emphasized the book, the word 602 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: particle is not a very good word, and there is 603 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 2: another word available, which once I reach that part of 604 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 2: the book, I only use that word afterwards, which is 605 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 2: the word wavecle And I like it because it emphasizes 606 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 2: this thing is really wavelike and not dust particle like. 607 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 2: But it also brings forth the notion that it's particulate. 608 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 2: It's somehow a bit of a wave, and yet it's 609 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 2: sufficiently unfamiliar as a term that it carries less cultural 610 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: and conceptual baggage. It leaves your brain fear to understand 611 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: what it might actually be. And so this little bit 612 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 2: of a wave is a good concept, I. 613 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: Think, yeah, And I'll say that reading your book it 614 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: made it, at the same time easier to understand, because 615 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: you invented some of your own words for clarity. It 616 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: also made it more of a challenge because it was 617 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: sometimes harder to connect it to existing established ideas and 618 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: concepts that people might have in their heads. But I 619 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: think it's beautiful as a sort of like standalone structure, 620 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna start from nothing and build up a 621 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: bunch of concrete ideas and piece them together for you. 622 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: You follow along that road, it really does all come together. 623 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: All right, We're gonna get even deeper into this, but 624 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 1: first we're going to take a quick break. We're back 625 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: and I'm talking to Professor Matt Strassler, author of Waves 626 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: and an Impossible See. So bring it together for us now, 627 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: because we could talk for hours, but I want to 628 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: get our listeners to a place where they can understand 629 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: how this wavecle picture of the universe and wavecles as 630 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 1: like either standing waves or traveling waves or both, helps 631 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: us understand the Higgs boson and then why this new 632 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: understanding can be consistent with the principle of relativity. 633 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's summarize kind of where we've which is 634 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 2: a long way. We went from electrons being these blue 635 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 2: dots and now suddenly they are these standing vibrations. They 636 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 2: have energy associated with their vibration. And it's really important 637 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: to understand the electron is really the vibration. It's not 638 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 2: that an electron is vibrating. The electron is the vibration. Right. 639 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: There is this thing which is a part of the universe. 640 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 2: We don't understand it very well. We call it the 641 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: electron field. It's analogous to the electromagnetic field, whose ripples 642 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: are associated with photons. There is this thing we call 643 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 2: the electron field. We understand good math for it, we 644 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 2: don't understand what it is, but its vibrations are what 645 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: we call electrons, and those electrons have a particular frequency 646 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 2: when they are standing. There is a resonance associated with 647 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: the electron field that determines how fast a stationary electron vibrates, 648 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 2: and that in turn determines how much energy it has 649 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 2: and therefore determines how much mass it has. This connection 650 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: between resonant frequency, energy and mass, which comes out of 651 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 2: Einstein's core ideas, is what gives us a link between 652 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 2: resonance and mass. But now, what about this resonance, What 653 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 2: is resonating? Well, again, what's resonating is the thing that's vibrating, 654 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 2: the electron field itself. We don't understand what it is, 655 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 2: but we understand what it's doing. It is vibrating in 656 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: a resonant way, somewhat as a guitar string, when plucked, 657 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 2: will vibrate at a particular resonant frequency. So when you 658 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 2: take a guitar or piano and you play all its notes, 659 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 2: you get various frequencies. When you take the universe and 660 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 2: you make it vibrate in all the ways it likes 661 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 2: to vibrate, you get the particle masses. There's a direct 662 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 2: link between the frequencies at which the universe likes to 663 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: vibrate and the masses of the elementary particles. And now 664 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 2: that gives us a chance to guess what the Higgs 665 00:37:54,280 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 2: field is actually doing. The Higgs field is changing the 666 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: frequencies of the other field. It's like tuning a guitar. 667 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 2: It is able to change the electron field's resonant frequency, 668 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 2: and therefore it can change the mass of the electron. Now, 669 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: a guitar player would be able to change all the 670 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 2: frequencies independently, right if you could tune anyone's string independently 671 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 2: of all the others. The Higgs field can't do all that. 672 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 2: It just changes the frequencies of all of the elementary 673 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 2: particles together, starting from zero and moving them up to 674 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 2: where they are today. 675 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: But they all get different values. 676 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 2: They all get different values, and the key to why 677 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 2: they get different values is related to how strongly the 678 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 2: Higgs field interacts with a particular field. So, for example, 679 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 2: the electron field. The electron has a relatively small mass, 680 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 2: and that reflects the fact that the electron field interacts 681 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 2: relatively weakly with the Higgs field, and so when the 682 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 2: Higgs field does its thing, it doesn't change the electron 683 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 2: frequency that much. But the top quark, which is the 684 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 2: particle whose mass is largest among all the particles known 685 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 2: so far, that is a vibration of the top quark field. 686 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: We're really inventive with our names, right. Top quark is 687 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,479 Speaker 2: a vibration of the top quark field. The top quark 688 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 2: field interacts very strongly with the Higgs field, and therefore 689 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 2: the top quark field has a high resonant frequency, and 690 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 2: therefore the top quark has a high mass. 691 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: So the Higgs is changing how all these fields vibrate, 692 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: changing their resonant frequencies, which really changes the masses of 693 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: what we're calling particles or wavecles. There's no molasses or 694 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: snow involved at all. 695 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 2: That's right. In fact, if you think about it, what 696 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 2: the Higgs field is doing is really not affecting particles directly, right. 697 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 2: It affects the other fields, changes their properties, and then 698 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 2: it's just a consequence of quantum physics that the waves 699 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 2: in those fields come in these unks that we call 700 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 2: quote particles or wavehicles. And then it's a consequence of 701 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 2: relativity that the energy of their vibration has something to 702 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 2: do with mass equals mc squared. The direct link between 703 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: the mass of the electron and the Higgs field doesn't 704 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 2: really exist. You have to go through these other pieces, 705 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 2: and that is why in order to explain how the 706 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: Higgs field works, I had to explain both quantum physics 707 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 2: to some degree and relativity to some degree in the 708 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 2: book before we could get to that. So, in a way, 709 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 2: the book was about trying to make sure some aspects 710 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 2: of relativity were clear, some aspects of waves were clear, 711 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 2: some aspects of quantum physics were clear, and then bringing 712 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 2: them all together so that we could understand what wavecles are. 713 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,359 Speaker 2: And at that point explaining what the Higgs field does 714 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 2: is not so difficult. Just change the frequency of a field. 715 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 2: Changes the frequency of a field, then it changes the 716 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 2: way it vibrates, and that's going to change the mass 717 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 2: of the corresponding particle. That's all. You have to first 718 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 2: understand that electrons aren't like dust particles, and they don't 719 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 2: get their mass through any mechanism that particles could possibly have. 720 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: They have to be vibrating objects in order for that 721 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 2: to make any sense. 722 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: And photons, you're saying, are just traveling waves, which means 723 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,879 Speaker 1: there is no standing wave for a photon. Photons have 724 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: no resonant frequency because the Higgs doesn't interact with the 725 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: electromagnetic field. 726 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, to be more precise, the electromagnetic field has no 727 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: resonant frequency, and correspondingly, it has no standing waves in 728 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 2: empty space, and therefore photons don't have any rest mass. 729 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 2: And yes, one reason for this, let's say, is that 730 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 2: the Higgs field does not directly interact with the electromagnetic field. 731 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 2: But it's important that not only the Higgs field that 732 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 2: we know doesn't do that, but there aren't any other 733 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 2: Higgs like fields that get in the way either. Now, 734 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,479 Speaker 2: why is this? Why is it that the electromagnetic field 735 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 2: has this property whereas the electron field doesn't. Why is 736 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 2: it that the electromagnetic field doesn't interact with the Higgs 737 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: field and its particles remain massless while the electron field does. 738 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 2: We don't know. We don't have an understanding of the 739 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: pattern of which fields the Higgs field interacts with, or 740 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 2: more precisely, we have partial understanding. We understand why Higgs 741 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 2: field of the sort that we have in our universe 742 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 2: can't interact with the electromagnetic field, but we don't know 743 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 2: why we had to have a Higgs field of that 744 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 2: particular sort as opposed to Higgs field of some other sort. 745 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 2: And we certainly don't know why the electron fields interaction 746 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 2: with the Higgs field is weak while the top quarnfield's 747 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 2: interaction with the Higgs field is strong. We don't understand 748 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 2: that pattern at all, and not that there haven't been 749 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 2: many attempts to understand it. I, as a theoretical physicist, 750 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 2: have tried a few times, many others have, and we 751 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 2: have lots of great ideas, but we have no idea 752 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 2: which one of these ideas, if any, is correct, And 753 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 2: we keep hoping that particle physics garments will give us 754 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 2: some clues, and up to now Unfortunately they have not, and. 755 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: It's really crucial because if the photon had even a 756 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: tiny amount of mass, it wouldn't have this property that 757 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: it's only a traveling wave, which would mean that you 758 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,720 Speaker 1: could catch up to it. You could see photons at rest. 759 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: You could have like a handful of photons, the way 760 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: you could have a handful of electrons, and you could 761 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: have them at various velocities, which would mean that observers 762 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't have to see the speed of light always as 763 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: the speed of light. It would feel like a very 764 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: different universe. 765 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 2: It certainly would feel very different because there would be 766 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 2: situations in which light and radio waves from a single 767 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 2: event would arrive at different times. There would be distortions 768 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: of things that you see. I mean, you can sort 769 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 2: of imagine if sound waves didn't all arrive at the 770 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 2: same time, if the speed of sound weren't basically a constant. 771 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 2: Just think what would happen to music. You play a 772 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 2: piano and then the low notes arrive late and later 773 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 2: than the I mean, it would make a mess I. 774 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: Thing the cellists have to play ahead of the violinists. 775 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 2: Speaking would be tough, right, would be a very different world, 776 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 2: and so it is an important feature of our world. 777 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 2: Not only that speeds of different frequencies of light would 778 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 2: be different, but there's another consequence which in a way 779 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 2: might be even more important depending on how much mass 780 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 2: photons would have, which is that the range of electric 781 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 2: and magnetic fields would not be as large. The connection 782 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 2: is not obvious, and the reason has to do with 783 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,320 Speaker 2: the following that the way that the Higgs field changes 784 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 2: the resonant frequency of another field is it makes it stiffer. 785 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 2: It makes it more difficult for it to vibrate, but 786 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 2: even more generally, it makes it more difficult for it 787 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 2: to change to vary. And so when you have an 788 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 2: electrically charged object, it can make in our universe an 789 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 2: electric field that goes out into the stars. A planet 790 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 2: can have a magnetic field that goes way out beyond 791 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 2: where the planet is, and that's very important for us 792 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 2: because the magnetic field off the Earth deflects particles from 793 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 2: the Sun that are flung out during solar flares, and 794 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 2: it protects us from the damage that such particles would do. 795 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,720 Speaker 2: But if the photon had a mass, or more precisely, 796 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 2: if the electromagnetic field had a resonant frequency, that in turn, 797 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 2: would mean that the electromagnetic field would have more difficulty 798 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 2: spreading out, and magnetic fields wouldn't spread as far, and 799 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 2: so you could end up with a situation where the 800 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,760 Speaker 2: magnetic field of the Earth might not reach out beyond 801 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 2: the surface of the Earth, and then we would not 802 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 2: be protected from these solar storms. So you know, we'd 803 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 2: survive because evolution is that way, right, Evolution would find 804 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 2: a way to create life that could survive all of that. Right, 805 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 2: we wouldn't, but we are certainly dependent upon this particular 806 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,320 Speaker 2: feature of the universe, and so you know that's one 807 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 2: of the many ways in which the details of particle 808 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 2: physics affect the universe on a macro scale. 809 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: Well, I think my last question for you is to 810 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: try to interpret what this all means. You've painted a 811 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: picture of the universe as field with waves, and in 812 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: your book, near the end, you write the universe rings 813 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: everywhere in everything, which I thought was very poetic. But 814 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 1: it makes me wonder, why is this, like, Why is 815 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 1: it that the mathematics of waves, which are very simple 816 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: and beautiful, are everywhere. Why are waves all over our universe, 817 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: both fundamental and emergent at so many different scales? What 818 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,360 Speaker 1: does that say about the universe, that waves are everywhere? 819 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,719 Speaker 2: Well, I think maybe that question has two parts to it. 820 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 2: The first is why are waves everywhere? Even in the 821 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 2: macroscopic universe? Why do we see ocean waves and seismic 822 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,840 Speaker 2: waves and waves and rubber And if you look closely 823 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 2: as find waves in metal. If you strike a bell, 824 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 2: there's waves inside. The why is that? And that turns 825 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 2: out to be a consequence of a simple idea, which 826 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 2: is that if I have a substance which is fairly 827 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 2: uniform and spread out like a chunk of metal, then 828 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 2: it is very easy to cause waves to occur. Let's 829 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 2: take the example of just water. Maybe that's simplest. If 830 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 2: you take a huge bucket of water or a big 831 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 2: pond or something, why is it so easy to get 832 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 2: ripples in it? Well, it's because it's so easy to 833 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 2: do something to one little piece of the water. Put 834 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 2: your hand in the water in one place, but that 835 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 2: is then going to have an impact on the bits 836 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 2: of the water right around it, which in turn is 837 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 2: going to have an impact on the parts of the 838 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 2: water right around them. You do something locally to the water, 839 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 2: but then the water can bring that effect outward. Further 840 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,919 Speaker 2: and further away from where you pressed on the water 841 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 2: or hit the water, whatever it is you did to it, 842 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 2: And that propagation of an initial effect through this uniform 843 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 2: material almost automatically leads to waves. The math of waves 844 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,720 Speaker 2: drops out of the equations, no matter what their details. 845 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: So as long as you have a material where information 846 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: doesn't propagate instantly, then you're going to get propagation of 847 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: information and those are waves. 848 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it needs to be a uniform material because 849 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 2: if it isn't uniform, if it's just an agglomeration of 850 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 2: lots of different things, then as things move out, they'll 851 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 2: move out of completely different speeds depending on exactly what 852 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 2: they run into. But when you have a single material 853 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 2: like water or air, the speed at which things propagate 854 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 2: is constant or mere constant, and so as things propagate out, 855 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 2: they do so in a nice uniform way, and that 856 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 2: allows you to get ripples, where you get waves which 857 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:42,280 Speaker 2: are simple and remain simple as they travel. So that's true. 858 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 2: In any material that's uniform, you almost always can get 859 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 2: waves of a certain type. So that's why they're ubiquitous 860 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,759 Speaker 2: around us in ordinary materials. Now, if you think the 861 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 2: universe is like a material, it's certainly a uniform leaving 862 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,360 Speaker 2: aside places where there's actually stuck. But if you go 863 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 2: out into the deep space, you're surrounded by whatever space is. 864 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 2: It's the same in all directions. It's the same in 865 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 2: all places. And we know this because we can measure 866 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 2: what the laws of nature are by looking at stars 867 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 2: or looking at other things in space, and the stars 868 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 2: are the same basically all across the universe. We don't 869 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 2: see big differences, so we know the universe is remarkably uniform, 870 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 2: and so to the extent it's a uniform material like thing, 871 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 2: the fact that it has waves in it is no surprise. 872 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 2: But we don't know why it's a uniform thing, and 873 00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 2: so at some level there's still plenty of why questions 874 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 2: that are out there for which we don't know answers. 875 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:42,799 Speaker 2: That's kind of where we. 876 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 1: Are, wonderful. Well, tell us again the title of your 877 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,800 Speaker 1: book and where listeners can find it if they'd like 878 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: to understand even deeper all of these concepts. 879 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 2: Well, the title I came up with, and I'm delighted 880 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:58,640 Speaker 2: that the publisher accepted it is waves in an impossible see, 881 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 2: beautiful waves being us the stuff we're made from and 882 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 2: the impossible see being this space we live in that's 883 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 2: kind of like a material and kind of isn't. And 884 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,839 Speaker 2: the book is available at any of your independent local 885 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 2: bookstores and of course at Amazon and Barnes and Noble 886 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 2: and all the other monsters that are happy out there 887 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,680 Speaker 2: to show you the full range of books that are 888 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 2: available in the world. But yes, it's going to be 889 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,600 Speaker 2: widely carried in bookstores and you should definitely check it out. 890 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,920 Speaker 1: Wonderful. Well, thanks again very much for coming on to 891 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: talk to us about all these incredible concepts and sharing 892 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,799 Speaker 1: your particular view of the universe with all of us. 893 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,399 Speaker 11: Thank you so much, Dan, It's been really fun, all right, 894 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 11: interesting conversation there, sort of like a new way to 895 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,319 Speaker 11: look at the world and to look at physics and 896 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 11: the nature of reality. Almost. 897 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:45,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 898 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,800 Speaker 1: I hope that it gives listeners and readers of the 899 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,799 Speaker 1: book a new way to think about these objects that 900 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,799 Speaker 1: form the foundations of our whole world. That when you 901 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: take your body apart and imagine that it's made out 902 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: of atoms and protons and electrons, that you think about 903 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: those particles a little bit differently. Maybe you replace your 904 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 1: high school concept of an electron as a tiny little 905 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 1: blue ball with a little ripple in that electron field, 906 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: and have a better understanding for what's rippling there and 907 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: why the electron has mass, and how it's all connected 908 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:13,760 Speaker 1: to the Higgs boson. 909 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 11: Well, I was waving in and out of the interview 910 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,400 Speaker 11: a little bit. So then the idea is that everything 911 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 11: is a wave. So it was wave, would you say 912 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 11: is a better word to describe what's going on at 913 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,160 Speaker 11: the fundamental levels? 914 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: Maths vision is that everything is a wave, a wave 915 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: in these things we call quantum fields that we don't 916 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,400 Speaker 1: really understand. But if you dig into what it means 917 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,279 Speaker 1: for a quantum field to do some waving, it can 918 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,319 Speaker 1: give you a better understanding of what motion is, of 919 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 1: what mass is, of what energy is, and how the 920 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: Higgs boson gives those particles mass, not by filling the 921 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: universe with molasses that slows things down, but by changing 922 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,799 Speaker 1: how those fields resonate, which really is what mass is 923 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: all about. So standing wave of resonance and a quantum field. 924 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 9: Mmm. 925 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 11: Interesting, Well, another cool idea out there, and it may 926 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,480 Speaker 11: be a revolutionary way to look at the universe on 927 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 11: this journey to figure out how everything works. 928 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: That's right. Matt Straussler is not just a super smart 929 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,319 Speaker 1: theoretical physicist. He really does have a gift for accessible 930 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,600 Speaker 1: explanations of deeply important concepts using intuitive ideas. Sometimes he 931 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 1: makes up his own words, like wavehicles because he wants 932 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,000 Speaker 1: to avoid the baggage of words you've already heard. But 933 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,399 Speaker 1: if you listen carefully and follow along, I really think 934 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,320 Speaker 1: it can give you a deeper understanding of quantum fields. 935 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,880 Speaker 11: All right, well, check out his book Waves in an 936 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 11: Impossible Scene. We hope you enjoyed that. 937 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time. For more 938 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: science and curiosity, come find us on social media where 939 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 1: we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, this 940 00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: word instant and now TikTok. Thanks for listening and remember 941 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,440 Speaker 1: that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production 942 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:08,880 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. More podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, 943 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.