WEBVTT - Mike Shinoda on Beats, Rhymes and Linkin Park 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:25.236 Pushkin. Since forming in nineteen ninety six, Lincoln Park has 0:00:25.276 --> 0:00:31.156 sold over one hundred million records worldwide. Their enormous success 0:00:31.156 --> 0:00:34.916 mixing genres like hip hop, metal, and anthemic pop, was 0:00:34.996 --> 0:00:39.756 spearheaded by the band's ultra talented founder, Mike Shinoda. Two 0:00:39.756 --> 0:00:43.396 months after Lincoln Park released their seventh album in twenty seventeen, 0:00:43.796 --> 0:00:48.356 their charismatic frontman Chester Bunnington, died by suicide, sending the 0:00:48.396 --> 0:00:52.556 band and millions of fans into a tales. Following year, 0:00:52.636 --> 0:00:56.716 Mike Shinoda detailed his grief on his solo release, Post Traumatic, 0:00:57.396 --> 0:01:00.956 and since that time, Mike has continued its relentless dedication 0:01:01.076 --> 0:01:04.876 to making music all through Quarantine. For instance, Mike has 0:01:04.916 --> 0:01:08.516 been creating tracks from scratch live on Twitch five days 0:01:08.556 --> 0:01:12.156 a week. He's a massive community of thousands of followers 0:01:12.236 --> 0:01:14.556 who scour the Internet for new artists from Mike to 0:01:14.596 --> 0:01:19.636 collaborate with, using the hashtag Shinoda produced me. In this episode, 0:01:20.036 --> 0:01:22.836 Rick Rubin talks to Mike about the albums he produced 0:01:22.876 --> 0:01:25.956 with Lincoln Park that helped we define the band's sound. 0:01:26.556 --> 0:01:30.836 Mike also reminisces about the band's early interpersonal dynamics and 0:01:30.916 --> 0:01:33.356 how the Beastie Boys License to Ill helped lay the 0:01:33.396 --> 0:01:40.636 foundation from Mike's life world. This is broken record liner 0:01:40.716 --> 0:01:48.356 notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick 0:01:48.436 --> 0:01:51.956 Rubin and Mike Shinoda. Tell me about what you're doing 0:01:52.076 --> 0:01:56.236 on twitch. That's so weird, man, it's great. I love it. 0:01:56.596 --> 0:01:59.876 When Quarantine first started, every day was the same day. 0:02:00.036 --> 0:02:01.756 I was in pajamas half the time. I was just 0:02:01.756 --> 0:02:04.996 like walking around in sweats. Like it wasn't depressed, but 0:02:05.036 --> 0:02:07.676 it was just like everything is the same. So when 0:02:07.676 --> 0:02:12.676 I started streaming effectively, because it created like structure, so 0:02:12.756 --> 0:02:15.636 I stream. I started then and I still do stream 0:02:15.676 --> 0:02:19.276 five days a week. I stream weekdays ten to you know, 0:02:19.596 --> 0:02:23.356 noon or one ish. And that was a nice like 0:02:23.596 --> 0:02:25.196 it was a nice way to be like, oh, I've 0:02:25.196 --> 0:02:27.316 got like you know, I've got my weekdays now, and 0:02:27.516 --> 0:02:29.596 oh I'm not streaming today. I know it's Saturday. Like 0:02:29.636 --> 0:02:31.676 it's just a stupid thing. And I got to use 0:02:31.716 --> 0:02:35.156 really dig in with this space and get creative and 0:02:35.476 --> 0:02:38.276 get weird, which is part of the most fun part 0:02:38.316 --> 0:02:39.716 of it is doing stuff you go, oh, I didn't 0:02:39.716 --> 0:02:42.076 even know that was a weird idea. That was fun 0:02:42.076 --> 0:02:44.116 to do. And all last year I was getting I 0:02:44.196 --> 0:02:46.796 was getting faster and faster and faster in terms of 0:02:46.836 --> 0:02:50.036 like making a track, and then I realized at the 0:02:50.196 --> 0:02:52.396 end of last year, like, how do I do Now 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:53.716 that I've done this for a while, I'm starting to 0:02:53.756 --> 0:02:55.436 get a little bit burnt on it, like I want 0:02:55.436 --> 0:02:57.676 to do something different with it. And I decided early 0:02:57.716 --> 0:03:00.156 on I wouldn't do vocals because I think that would 0:03:00.196 --> 0:03:02.836 burn me out. So I was just making instrumentals, and 0:03:02.876 --> 0:03:05.716 then I realized I could since I'm live on Twitch 0:03:05.756 --> 0:03:09.076 and there's anywhere between I don't know, like a thousand, 0:03:08.916 --> 0:03:11.796 and I think we peaked at like almost thirty thousand 0:03:11.796 --> 0:03:14.236 people watching at one time. I wanted to do something 0:03:14.276 --> 0:03:16.236 to like enhance the channel and give back to the 0:03:16.276 --> 0:03:20.356 people they've been watching. So I started taking like fans 0:03:20.396 --> 0:03:24.396 submissions of vocalists and songs because I just realized, like 0:03:24.436 --> 0:03:26.476 looking at Instagram and looking at TikTok, like there's so 0:03:26.516 --> 0:03:29.076 many good artists out there who have no following. They've 0:03:29.076 --> 0:03:32.716 got like, you know, six hundred people following them, and 0:03:32.756 --> 0:03:36.796 they're actually very good, and so I just started taking 0:03:36.796 --> 0:03:38.956 submissions from those people. Now I I called, you know, 0:03:38.996 --> 0:03:41.596 and I mean you'll get this joke right away. I 0:03:41.596 --> 0:03:45.116 started calling the chat the A and Army. So it's 0:03:45.156 --> 0:03:48.036 like it's like, you know, nine hundred people whose job 0:03:48.076 --> 0:03:50.196 it is to go find me the best stuff, and 0:03:50.236 --> 0:03:51.996 they do. They go, they go and find the good 0:03:52.036 --> 0:03:53.396 stuff and they bring it to me, and they're like, 0:03:53.756 --> 0:03:56.956 you know, the more they say, the more they shout, 0:03:56.996 --> 0:03:58.836 like look at this one, look at this one. I know, 0:03:58.916 --> 0:04:01.796 it's like pretty good. So cool. Yeah, And so I've 0:04:01.836 --> 0:04:04.636 been I do two to three, starting like a couple 0:04:04.676 --> 0:04:06.516 of weeks ago, I've been able to do two to 0:04:06.596 --> 0:04:11.996 three brand new songs all like I'm in a morning, 0:04:12.036 --> 0:04:15.116 I'm probably like a stream and a half. I'd get 0:04:15.116 --> 0:04:18.716 a song done from scratch to like finished, and I 0:04:18.756 --> 0:04:21.356 send them something that's effectively like mixed and mastered. It's 0:04:21.396 --> 0:04:25.116 incredible that they can release. It's so fun, man, it's 0:04:25.156 --> 0:04:27.276 really really fun. And the fans, I mean, you can 0:04:27.316 --> 0:04:29.956 imagine how excited they are, right and and some of 0:04:29.996 --> 0:04:32.196 the cases what I haven't like talked to the fans 0:04:32.196 --> 0:04:34.236 on the channel about actually I'm telling you about this 0:04:34.796 --> 0:04:37.436 is that I will reach out to somebody and say, hey, 0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:41.196 that thing you posted on TikTok or Instagram was really cool? 0:04:41.636 --> 0:04:43.276 Would you want me to produce it? And I say 0:04:43.316 --> 0:04:46.396 that because they've used the hashtag. They've used shinoda produce 0:04:46.476 --> 0:04:49.476 me as the hashtag would do. So they've they've raised 0:04:49.476 --> 0:04:51.116 their hand and said I want Mike to produce me. 0:04:51.276 --> 0:04:53.036 So I hit them on the DMS and I say, 0:04:53.276 --> 0:04:55.556 you want me to produce and they always say yes, 0:04:56.116 --> 0:04:58.996 and then half the time they say I haven't finished 0:04:58.996 --> 0:05:01.236 the song though, Like the thing I posted is it's 0:05:01.236 --> 0:05:03.076 a verse and a chorus, and I don't have a 0:05:03.116 --> 0:05:05.396 second verse. I don't have a bridge or any you know, 0:05:05.836 --> 0:05:08.156 middle aid or whatever. I don't have anything else. And 0:05:08.196 --> 0:05:11.756 so it's like, okay, like take your time, don't rush it, 0:05:11.796 --> 0:05:13.236 because I want you to be I want you to 0:05:13.276 --> 0:05:17.076 submit something you love, because like the whole idea is 0:05:17.076 --> 0:05:18.676 for you to get to more people than you've already 0:05:18.716 --> 0:05:22.036 got to. So give me something great and when it's ready, 0:05:22.156 --> 0:05:24.476 then send it to me and I and that's generally 0:05:24.476 --> 0:05:27.356 it's if it's if it's somebody in that scenario I 0:05:27.396 --> 0:05:28.956 find that they're getting they get back to me within 0:05:29.036 --> 0:05:31.596 like three or four days, And what do they usually 0:05:31.596 --> 0:05:34.876 get back to you with like a more expanded same demo, 0:05:35.316 --> 0:05:38.756 but with all the parts. Yeah, it's usually like we 0:05:39.036 --> 0:05:42.676 we transfer link or something like that with multi tracked vocals, 0:05:42.716 --> 0:05:45.236 and I always tell them like I'll tell them like 0:05:45.356 --> 0:05:48.716 speed it up like to this bpm or whatever, or 0:05:48.756 --> 0:05:51.156 I'll tell them make sure it's in your like very 0:05:51.196 --> 0:05:54.516 best range. It sounded low to me, but up to you. 0:05:54.796 --> 0:05:56.556 And then I can and they can go crazy on 0:05:56.596 --> 0:06:00.476 the on the over dubs and harmonies and background vocal 0:06:00.516 --> 0:06:04.116 whatever else they want to do, they do, but they 0:06:04.156 --> 0:06:06.876 do that before the track is before there's a track. 0:06:07.076 --> 0:06:09.716 Is that correct, Yeah, before there's a before there's a track. 0:06:09.996 --> 0:06:15.116 So what you get is basically finished vocal stems for 0:06:15.196 --> 0:06:18.916 a song. Yeah, and then you start from scrat you 0:06:18.956 --> 0:06:21.876 take it as an a cappella yeah, and you build 0:06:22.316 --> 0:06:26.636 music to support whatever that is. Yeah. Do you remember 0:06:26.636 --> 0:06:30.476 when we were doing the Thousand Sons Together that at 0:06:30.476 --> 0:06:33.156 the end of that record, before the first single, The 0:06:33.196 --> 0:06:36.996 Catalyst was the single on that record, before the single 0:06:37.036 --> 0:06:40.316 came out, so no fan had heard the song. We 0:06:40.436 --> 0:06:45.916 released pieces of stems to that song and we told 0:06:45.916 --> 0:06:49.236 them take these pieces, make a song out of them. 0:06:49.316 --> 0:06:51.116 We didn't give them enough to know what the song 0:06:51.156 --> 0:06:54.236 even was. We just said, take pieces and make a 0:06:54.276 --> 0:06:57.996 song out of it, and whoever's thing is the coolest 0:06:58.036 --> 0:07:00.236 to us, we're going to put you on our record, 0:07:00.636 --> 0:07:03.316 on the album itself, and we ended up putting them on. 0:07:03.396 --> 0:07:05.676 I think it was When They Come for Me was 0:07:05.676 --> 0:07:08.636 the song we put them on. But we chose it 0:07:08.676 --> 0:07:12.156 based on who is like, as I recall, like I 0:07:12.156 --> 0:07:13.956 could be getting some of this wrong, but as I recall, 0:07:13.996 --> 0:07:17.796 it was like we gave them pieces to remix, but 0:07:17.836 --> 0:07:20.476 they'd never heard the song they were remixing, so I 0:07:20.516 --> 0:07:23.516 called it like the premix, like they just they had 0:07:23.556 --> 0:07:26.676 to just assume the song. And that's why I feel 0:07:26.716 --> 0:07:28.956 I feel like there's something to that, something about that 0:07:28.956 --> 0:07:30.756 that relates to this where it's like, I don't know 0:07:30.796 --> 0:07:32.876 what you were thinking your song is, but here's what 0:07:32.956 --> 0:07:35.676 I hear, just based on that vocal on a grid 0:07:36.236 --> 0:07:40.436 so cool. It's fun, man, super fun. That Thousand Sons 0:07:40.476 --> 0:07:44.196 is my favorite of the things we worked on together. 0:07:44.316 --> 0:07:48.036 That's my favorite, just because I feel like it really is. 0:07:48.556 --> 0:07:52.156 It felt like the beginning of something new and something 0:07:52.196 --> 0:07:56.716 new and really good. We didn't like the record before 0:07:56.716 --> 0:07:59.436 it Minutes to Midnight was that the whole effort the whole. 0:07:59.476 --> 0:08:03.436 When we first met, you asked the band, what do 0:08:03.556 --> 0:08:07.876 you guys envision doing with this album? Like why why 0:08:07.916 --> 0:08:10.156 are we talking like what you want to do? And 0:08:10.196 --> 0:08:12.436 we all said, like we want to we want to 0:08:12.516 --> 0:08:15.076 redefine the identity the band, Like the whole point was 0:08:15.116 --> 0:08:17.436 to make something that didn't sound like the stuff the 0:08:17.436 --> 0:08:19.476 people that already heard, because albums one and two were 0:08:19.476 --> 0:08:22.716 so similar. And You're like, great, that's exactly how I feel, 0:08:22.756 --> 0:08:25.236 and He's you said, I don't know if I would 0:08:25.276 --> 0:08:27.756 want to work with the band if you didn't feel 0:08:27.796 --> 0:08:29.796 that way. So it's great. We're all on the same 0:08:29.796 --> 0:08:31.476 page and we just kind of hit it off from there, 0:08:31.596 --> 0:08:33.196 and that first record we did together, it was a 0:08:33.396 --> 0:08:37.436 very long, hard process, was very difficult. We were like 0:08:37.716 --> 0:08:41.476 one hundred and fifty demos eighteen months or something, and 0:08:41.516 --> 0:08:43.396 you and I had a couple conversations towards the end 0:08:43.396 --> 0:08:44.796 of it where I was like, Rick, I can't do 0:08:44.836 --> 0:08:46.956 this anymore. It's like we're turning it into guns n' 0:08:47.036 --> 0:08:49.716 roses Chinese democracy. We're just gonna be in the studio 0:08:49.756 --> 0:08:51.316 for years on this thing, so we need to put 0:08:51.356 --> 0:08:54.396 a stop to it. And I think that's because we 0:08:54.436 --> 0:08:57.356 hadn't gotten to the place place yet where we're gonna 0:08:57.356 --> 0:08:59.196 get on the next record, and I didn't want to 0:08:59.236 --> 0:09:03.116 like just have our heads down underground until we thought 0:09:03.196 --> 0:09:04.996 we were there. I don't think we could have gotten 0:09:05.036 --> 0:09:08.356 there on one try. It was a two record evolution, yeah, 0:09:08.396 --> 0:09:10.956 and I think it worked fine, and it ended up 0:09:10.996 --> 0:09:16.436 being more of a somewhat more smoother transition for the 0:09:16.476 --> 0:09:19.236 audience as well, because yeah, oh god, it would you 0:09:19.276 --> 0:09:21.876 imagine if they had been if if Thousand Sons came 0:09:21.916 --> 0:09:25.116 out first, it would have just been, like I mean, 0:09:25.556 --> 0:09:27.356 there would have been a lot of people who just said, 0:09:27.356 --> 0:09:30.476 fuck these guys. Yeah, yeah, that even as it was 0:09:30.756 --> 0:09:34.436 that album, like a Thousand Sons was one or five stars, 0:09:34.596 --> 0:09:36.516 like it was a solid two and a half star record, 0:09:36.556 --> 0:09:40.196 because nobody was in the middle. Everybody was on what 0:09:40.356 --> 0:09:42.196 we love it or we hate it every day, which 0:09:42.276 --> 0:09:45.716 is which is there is no better way to know 0:09:46.716 --> 0:09:48.756 you took it as far as it needs to go. 0:09:49.356 --> 0:09:51.516 When people love it or hate it and no one's 0:09:51.516 --> 0:09:54.556 in the middle, that it tells you everything. That's the 0:09:54.676 --> 0:09:59.996 dream is to have people love it or really hate it. 0:10:00.316 --> 0:10:03.756 Totally totally agreed. I remember us having a lot of 0:10:03.756 --> 0:10:08.076 conversations about like music technology stuff around the time of 0:10:08.116 --> 0:10:12.116 soos and do you know what I'm saying, Like you've 0:10:12.156 --> 0:10:15.836 always been interested in well, I mean you've always been 0:10:15.876 --> 0:10:19.236 interested in cutting edge technology. Let me ask you this, 0:10:19.556 --> 0:10:21.996 is there stuff in music technology that you're interested in 0:10:22.076 --> 0:10:23.796 right now? And then beyond that, is there stuff in 0:10:23.796 --> 0:10:26.996 technology at large that you're really interested in? These days? 0:10:27.636 --> 0:10:33.116 I'm interested in how blockchain is going to affect music distribution. 0:10:33.756 --> 0:10:37.076 I'm looking forward to a place where if an artist 0:10:37.116 --> 0:10:40.636 makes something that can put it out and people who 0:10:40.676 --> 0:10:42.956 want it can get to it. Even from the early 0:10:42.996 --> 0:10:46.396 days of hip hop, it's always been a struggle of 0:10:46.476 --> 0:10:49.596 people wanting to silence hip hop. I mean the right 0:10:49.676 --> 0:10:53.356 to express your feelings. You're not saying what's No one 0:10:53.436 --> 0:10:57.476 knows what is or isn't. All you have is All 0:10:57.516 --> 0:11:00.236 we have is our experience of the world and we 0:11:00.276 --> 0:11:03.356 share it. And as artists, that's what the game is. 0:11:03.396 --> 0:11:06.796 It's just sharing what you notice that no one else notices, 0:11:07.636 --> 0:11:10.156 or that what you notice that other people notice and 0:11:10.276 --> 0:11:15.516 like oh yeah that or not or something to react to. 0:11:15.916 --> 0:11:19.036 You know, Like as we talked about, I like the 0:11:19.076 --> 0:11:21.396 fact that the people who vote one star for a 0:11:21.476 --> 0:11:24.556 thousand sons get to say that. It's like, that's right, 0:11:24.676 --> 0:11:27.756 that's what that's their opinion. They don't have to like it. 0:11:28.476 --> 0:11:32.396 That's fine, Yeah right, No, I love I mean you 0:11:32.436 --> 0:11:35.996 know this, I love polarizing music. I love stuff that, like, 0:11:36.356 --> 0:11:39.956 I mean, one of my favorite groups ever is something 0:11:39.996 --> 0:11:41.916 like I had said this the other day. We did 0:11:41.916 --> 0:11:45.436 a remix. We gave you know, one hundred guess yeah, 0:11:45.476 --> 0:11:48.276 I gave we did we let one hundred gecks remix 0:11:48.356 --> 0:11:52.556 one step closer, And so obviously the fans were like, wait, 0:11:53.196 --> 0:11:55.596 that's what they look like. Wait, that's what it sounds like, 0:11:55.596 --> 0:11:58.876 like like they could they hate, like so many people 0:11:58.956 --> 0:12:00.996 were hated it so much, and then other people were like, 0:12:01.396 --> 0:12:04.676 this is their favorite thing. I posted about it because 0:12:04.716 --> 0:12:06.276 I was seeing all that. I was like, you guys know, 0:12:06.396 --> 0:12:11.116 like ever since from from Public Enemy to Death Grips, like, 0:12:11.516 --> 0:12:17.036 I love stuff that. I love that dissonance. I love that, 0:12:17.316 --> 0:12:22.836 like Visceral. It takes it's hard to like get that 0:12:23.956 --> 0:12:26.956 like in tune with almost like your intuition to like 0:12:27.036 --> 0:12:30.916 make those weird sonic experiments to make something sound that way, 0:12:30.956 --> 0:12:34.476 like you don't get you don't arrive at m one 0:12:34.556 --> 0:12:37.036 hundred guess or like by the Way, or like Umru, 0:12:37.396 --> 0:12:41.556 or like Sophie, you don't arrive at that just in 0:12:41.596 --> 0:12:44.876 a day, like screwing around and mistakenly like making it. 0:12:45.196 --> 0:12:49.396 Like there's so much work and experimentation and like self 0:12:49.836 --> 0:12:54.796 reflection in a sense that that is required to find 0:12:54.836 --> 0:12:59.956 that that sonic like identity. I love that work absolutely 0:13:00.516 --> 0:13:02.356 me too. I can remember the first time I heard 0:13:02.396 --> 0:13:05.436 Sophie and how my mind was blown, just like you know, 0:13:05.516 --> 0:13:11.276 like Lemonade song destroyed Me. Destroy was so cool, it 0:13:11.436 --> 0:13:15.396 was so original and so cool. I can't believe Sophie 0:13:15.396 --> 0:13:19.556 passed away, kind of believe it. Yeah, it's crazy. We'll 0:13:19.596 --> 0:13:21.956 be back with Mike Shinoda and Rick Rubin after a 0:13:22.036 --> 0:13:28.756 quick break. We're back with more from Mike Shinoda and 0:13:28.876 --> 0:13:32.996 Rick Rubin. What's your first memory of music in your life. 0:13:33.516 --> 0:13:37.596 I remembered listening to my parents' records. They had like 0:13:37.716 --> 0:13:41.316 a what my dad would call a high five system. 0:13:41.996 --> 0:13:45.356 Any we play vinyl, and I remember their music like 0:13:45.676 --> 0:13:47.716 they didn't listen to stuff that was very exciting to me. 0:13:48.276 --> 0:13:53.116 They listened to a lot of like slower seventies, like 0:13:53.796 --> 0:13:55.876 almost sounded like ballads and love songs. It was like 0:13:55.916 --> 0:14:00.356 this whole soft rock period. And then honestly, like the 0:14:00.396 --> 0:14:02.236 first record that I was like, what is that was 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:05.116 Beastie Boys License Ill. Wow. That was the first time. Yeah, 0:14:05.316 --> 0:14:08.396 I mean music was happening, was happening all over the place. 0:14:08.436 --> 0:14:13.076 But the first record that I was obsessed with was 0:14:13.076 --> 0:14:17.676 was Licensed Ill. And that opened the door for because 0:14:17.716 --> 0:14:20.916 it's funny, it's weird to think that, like at the time, 0:14:20.956 --> 0:14:24.236 I wouldn't have known that that hip hop was, that 0:14:24.276 --> 0:14:26.796 these guys were underdogs, that the style of music was 0:14:26.836 --> 0:14:29.716 being what you'd call it today, you'd call it a meme, 0:14:29.916 --> 0:14:33.716 like they was being it was being minimized as like 0:14:33.836 --> 0:14:36.356 not real music, it's just a bunch of and part 0:14:36.356 --> 0:14:38.236 of that there was a racism involved with that too. 0:14:38.276 --> 0:14:40.876 It's like, oh, it's just these black guys talking over 0:14:40.996 --> 0:14:45.236 other people's beats, other people's songs, so like it's not 0:14:45.436 --> 0:14:48.076 music right. But to me, I was like, these are 0:14:48.076 --> 0:14:50.836 the first songs that I've ever felt like, that's that's 0:14:50.876 --> 0:14:53.636 what I listened to, and I memorized every word. I 0:14:53.716 --> 0:14:56.156 knew everything. Then I was buying Ella Cool J and 0:14:56.196 --> 0:14:59.476 I was buying Run DMC. Eventually, like Iced tea and 0:14:59.476 --> 0:15:01.996 stuff that my parents didn't know what I was listening to, 0:15:02.556 --> 0:15:05.316 had a lot more profanity and whatever. My mom. I 0:15:05.396 --> 0:15:08.676 tried to get the first the debut Cypress Hill record 0:15:08.716 --> 0:15:11.916 for Chris Smith, and my mom like Christmas Day came 0:15:11.916 --> 0:15:13.516 and went and I didn't get it, and I was like, 0:15:13.556 --> 0:15:15.076 that was like the number one thing on my life. 0:15:15.076 --> 0:15:16.756 I had more expensive things on my list, but the 0:15:16.876 --> 0:15:20.196 number one thing was the Cypress Hill CD. My mom 0:15:20.316 --> 0:15:22.796 is like, are you kidding? She's like, I realized that's 0:15:22.836 --> 0:15:24.596 what you wanted, but like, do you see the names 0:15:24.596 --> 0:15:26.956 of the songs? How I could just kill a man 0:15:27.116 --> 0:15:29.796 and pigs and hole in the head. She's like, I'm 0:15:29.836 --> 0:15:33.756 not buying you any album with that you cannot listen. 0:15:33.796 --> 0:15:36.676 I had that album the next day. I think I 0:15:37.076 --> 0:15:39.756 went I found a way to get it, like in me. 0:15:39.836 --> 0:15:41.636 As soon as I knew that, She's like, I'm not 0:15:41.636 --> 0:15:44.836 buying it for you. Well I get this record, yeah, right, 0:15:45.396 --> 0:15:48.436 because we didn't believe that, Like no, but any any 0:15:48.676 --> 0:15:51.156 person who's ever been on that side of the equation knows, 0:15:51.196 --> 0:15:53.236 like listening to this stuff, it's like, I'm not gonna 0:15:53.356 --> 0:15:55.556 go and like do anything. I'm not gonna go shoot 0:15:55.556 --> 0:15:58.996 cops because I listened to Cypress Hill. That's stupid, obviously, Yes, 0:15:59.196 --> 0:16:01.996 it was funny like I thought. I thought they were hysterical. 0:16:02.316 --> 0:16:04.276 And by the way, all of those things, like there 0:16:04.356 --> 0:16:06.996 was something I related to in terms of like this 0:16:07.036 --> 0:16:09.556 feeling of like being an outsider, and I think it 0:16:09.596 --> 0:16:10.956 was a I think it had to do a little 0:16:10.956 --> 0:16:13.676 bit with being mixed race and like people would think 0:16:13.716 --> 0:16:16.476 I do. Even nobody ever knew what I was. I 0:16:16.596 --> 0:16:18.196 was just like, oh, they just talkally speak to me 0:16:18.236 --> 0:16:20.996 in Spanish. I was like, I'm not Mexican life. So 0:16:21.036 --> 0:16:25.396 if your entry into your love of music is hip hop, 0:16:26.076 --> 0:16:29.036 did you start with the idea of making music? Did 0:16:29.076 --> 0:16:31.236 it start with the idea of being a writer and 0:16:31.276 --> 0:16:35.516 writing at being an MC or did you think about 0:16:35.596 --> 0:16:39.836 making beats? Where were you on the scale? My mom 0:16:39.876 --> 0:16:43.996 made me do piano, so I was doing I was 0:16:44.116 --> 0:16:48.236 listening to rap and I was playing classical piano and 0:16:48.356 --> 0:16:51.396 I hate I didn't really care. I didn't hate classical, 0:16:51.716 --> 0:16:53.396 but I didn't care for it. I was just doing 0:16:53.396 --> 0:16:56.236 it because it was a class that my mom was 0:16:56.276 --> 0:16:59.436 making me take. I think an important moment was around 0:17:00.516 --> 0:17:02.476 my must have been in junior high I'm gonna say, 0:17:02.636 --> 0:17:06.556 I don't know. Like twelve ish, thirteen ish, my piano 0:17:06.636 --> 0:17:10.956 teacher had a songwriting contest with another teacher or a 0:17:10.996 --> 0:17:14.356 couple of teachers. So there's a recital, and before the recital, 0:17:14.356 --> 0:17:18.796 everybody submitted their their songs on paper, and you play. 0:17:18.836 --> 0:17:21.316 Everybody played their song too in the concert, and then 0:17:21.396 --> 0:17:23.956 and then afterwards you went down a hallway and they 0:17:24.036 --> 0:17:26.956 put like ribbons on the songs that won, and I 0:17:27.116 --> 0:17:30.716 won first place, and I won and there were kids 0:17:30.756 --> 0:17:32.676 who were they're like high school kids who had submitted 0:17:32.676 --> 0:17:35.156 songs and I was I beat them, and that was 0:17:35.156 --> 0:17:38.676 the first moment where I was like, oh, that's so crazy. 0:17:38.716 --> 0:17:40.756 I beat that, like I've I've wrote a better song 0:17:40.796 --> 0:17:42.356 than those guys. And I was like looking at their 0:17:43.076 --> 0:17:45.036 thinking about what they played and looking at theirs and 0:17:45.076 --> 0:17:47.796 like figuring out, like why, I don't know, why do 0:17:47.836 --> 0:17:51.476 you remember the piece of music? I can still play it? Yeah, 0:17:51.516 --> 0:17:54.876 it's basically a thirteen year olds version of like a 0:17:55.036 --> 0:17:58.676 Dungeons and Dragons theme, Like imagine the most simple medieval 0:17:59.076 --> 0:18:02.636 like fifths and a minor and that's it's that, Like 0:18:02.676 --> 0:18:05.516 that's all it is. It sounds like the hobbit like 0:18:05.676 --> 0:18:07.636 so that and I don't know, I guess that's what 0:18:07.676 --> 0:18:10.156 I was into since I was also drawing all the time. 0:18:10.236 --> 0:18:12.596 I drew a lot of that type of thing, So 0:18:12.716 --> 0:18:17.836 those things all converge. So eventually shortly after that, I know, 0:18:17.956 --> 0:18:20.076 I went to my piano teacher and I was like, 0:18:20.476 --> 0:18:23.716 I want to get more into like writing music. I 0:18:23.796 --> 0:18:26.516 love it and I want to write stuff like my 0:18:26.556 --> 0:18:30.396 favorite rap songs, So like, can we do more blues 0:18:30.436 --> 0:18:34.676 and jazz? And she was like, well, number one, like 0:18:34.756 --> 0:18:37.636 I'm not your best resource for that kind of kind 0:18:37.636 --> 0:18:40.996 of music, partially because jazz in particular is so specific 0:18:41.436 --> 0:18:43.796 and it's not something she studied or really and there 0:18:43.876 --> 0:18:46.636 was an improvisation element to it too, so she's like, 0:18:46.636 --> 0:18:48.676 this is this goes outside of the academic trading that 0:18:48.716 --> 0:18:50.756 I'm prepared to teach you. The other thing is you 0:18:50.796 --> 0:18:52.356 what you're talking about, she said to me, with the 0:18:52.356 --> 0:18:55.156 other thing you're talking about is making and recording things, 0:18:55.596 --> 0:18:58.916 and that's not what I do. So she basically talked 0:18:58.956 --> 0:19:01.236 me into quitting her lessons. She said, you should go 0:19:01.276 --> 0:19:04.276 buy a keyboard and buy these types of pieces of 0:19:04.716 --> 0:19:07.716 equipment to learn, and you'll learn hands on how to 0:19:07.836 --> 0:19:10.436 use it. And if you can imagine, I always say, 0:19:10.476 --> 0:19:14.916 like two people, imagine somebody who makes their living teaching 0:19:15.036 --> 0:19:19.036 students piano and is telling their student to quit piano 0:19:19.396 --> 0:19:23.036 because it's the right thing. Like there's them no more admirable, 0:19:23.276 --> 0:19:27.036 that's amazing. I always incredible, incredible. So you're you're so lucky, 0:19:27.116 --> 0:19:31.476 You're so super lucky, super lucky. Big lesson too. Yeah, 0:19:31.516 --> 0:19:34.316 what was the recommended equipment then? Like what did you 0:19:34.356 --> 0:19:37.076 start with? Well? I got she said to get a 0:19:37.156 --> 0:19:40.156 keyboard that had other sounds so I can start playing 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:42.996 different sounds with the same notes that I already knew, 0:19:43.076 --> 0:19:47.316 which I did. And then after that I think it 0:19:47.436 --> 0:19:51.796 was um like an SM fifty seven, Mike a task 0:19:51.876 --> 0:19:55.756 Camp four track, and then my big purchases were I 0:19:55.796 --> 0:20:00.236 got a little Mackey mixing console and a and a 0:20:00.316 --> 0:20:05.436 Kai S nine hundred sampler, and that needed to be 0:20:05.676 --> 0:20:09.476 to be programmed with something else, so like you needed 0:20:09.516 --> 0:20:11.796 to send MIDI to it. It didn't have an internal sequencer. 0:20:11.876 --> 0:20:15.196 So I bought this Eleasis I think it's they're called. 0:20:15.316 --> 0:20:18.316 I think it's an HR sixteen drum machine. And I 0:20:18.356 --> 0:20:20.716 could use the HR sixteen as a drum machine or 0:20:20.756 --> 0:20:22.996 I could shut the volume off and run the sampler 0:20:23.036 --> 0:20:24.556 off of it, and then I was Then I was 0:20:24.596 --> 0:20:26.836 off to the races. That's how my band started. It's 0:20:26.876 --> 0:20:29.676 once I got those pieces of gear. I was making beats. 0:20:30.116 --> 0:20:32.636 My friend was coming over with his guitar, and we 0:20:32.636 --> 0:20:35.716 were making like we started by making joke tracks, like 0:20:35.716 --> 0:20:37.596 we were making almost like we think of like weird 0:20:37.636 --> 0:20:40.436 Al Yankovic, Like we had this thing, this thing that 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:43.956 was like like G Funk Snoop Dogg style Gfunk Gangster 0:20:44.036 --> 0:20:47.276 app his group peripheral group was the dog Pound, so 0:20:47.356 --> 0:20:49.716 ours was the Pooch Pound, and we had this we 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:52.996 had this song where we were North Coast killers, so 0:20:52.996 --> 0:20:56.556 we hated Canadians, so stupid my friends. It was only 0:20:56.596 --> 0:20:59.156 to make our friends laugh and to get and meanwhile 0:20:59.196 --> 0:21:01.236 like learn how to use the gear like I was. 0:21:01.396 --> 0:21:03.876 The more songs I made, as stupid as they were, 0:21:04.036 --> 0:21:06.036 they made my friends laugh and I was learning how 0:21:06.076 --> 0:21:08.236 to put a song together. Well, that that was how 0:21:08.356 --> 0:21:11.116 to be. The album that influenced you is made as well. 0:21:11.156 --> 0:21:13.156 It was like it was just everything was written with 0:21:13.196 --> 0:21:16.276 the idea of making our friends laugh and that's all. Yeah, 0:21:16.276 --> 0:21:19.836 it was never thought past that yeah. Do you think 0:21:19.876 --> 0:21:25.476 that the fact that you started learning piano before getting 0:21:25.516 --> 0:21:29.956 into the production aspect of recording turned out to be 0:21:29.996 --> 0:21:32.476 a good thing for you? I do. I mean for me, 0:21:32.516 --> 0:21:35.116