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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Since forming in nineteen ninety six, Lincoln Park has

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Speaker 1: sold over one hundred million records worldwide. Their enormous success

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Speaker 1: mixing genres like hip hop, metal, and anthemic pop, was

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Speaker 1: spearheaded by the band's ultra talented founder, Mike Shinoda. Two

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Speaker 1: months after Lincoln Park released their seventh album in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: their charismatic frontman Chester Bunnington, died by suicide, sending the

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Speaker 1: band and millions of fans into a tales. Following year,

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Speaker 1: Mike Shinoda detailed his grief on his solo release, Post Traumatic,

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Speaker 1: and since that time, Mike has continued its relentless dedication

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Speaker 1: to making music all through Quarantine. For instance, Mike has

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Speaker 1: been creating tracks from scratch live on Twitch five days

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Speaker 1: a week. He's a massive community of thousands of followers

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Speaker 1: who scour the Internet for new artists from Mike to

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Speaker 1: collaborate with, using the hashtag Shinoda produced me. In this episode,

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Speaker 1: Rick Rubin talks to Mike about the albums he produced

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Speaker 1: with Lincoln Park that helped we define the band's sound.

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Speaker 1: Mike also reminisces about the band's early interpersonal dynamics and

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Speaker 1: how the Beastie Boys License to Ill helped lay the

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Speaker 1: foundation from Mike's life world. This is broken record liner

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Speaker 1: notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick

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Speaker 1: Rubin and Mike Shinoda. Tell me about what you're doing

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Speaker 1: on twitch. That's so weird, man, it's great. I love it.

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Speaker 1: When Quarantine first started, every day was the same day.

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Speaker 1: I was in pajamas half the time. I was just

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Speaker 1: like walking around in sweats. Like it wasn't depressed, but

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Speaker 1: it was just like everything is the same. So when

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Speaker 1: I started streaming effectively, because it created like structure, so

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Speaker 1: I stream. I started then and I still do stream

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Speaker 1: five days a week. I stream weekdays ten to you know,

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Speaker 1: noon or one ish. And that was a nice like

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Speaker 1: it was a nice way to be like, oh, I've

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Speaker 1: got like you know, I've got my weekdays now, and

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Speaker 1: oh I'm not streaming today. I know it's Saturday. Like

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Speaker 1: it's just a stupid thing. And I got to use

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Speaker 1: really dig in with this space and get creative and

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Speaker 1: get weird, which is part of the most fun part

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Speaker 1: of it is doing stuff you go, oh, I didn't

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Speaker 1: even know that was a weird idea. That was fun

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Speaker 1: to do. And all last year I was getting I

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Speaker 1: was getting faster and faster and faster in terms of

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Speaker 1: like making a track, and then I realized at the

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Speaker 1: end of last year, like, how do I do Now

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Speaker 1: that I've done this for a while, I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: get a little bit burnt on it, like I want

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Speaker 1: to do something different with it. And I decided early

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Speaker 1: on I wouldn't do vocals because I think that would

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Speaker 1: burn me out. So I was just making instrumentals, and

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Speaker 1: then I realized I could since I'm live on Twitch

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Speaker 1: and there's anywhere between I don't know, like a thousand,

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Speaker 1: and I think we peaked at like almost thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: people watching at one time. I wanted to do something

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Speaker 1: to like enhance the channel and give back to the

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Speaker 1: people they've been watching. So I started taking like fans

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Speaker 1: submissions of vocalists and songs because I just realized, like

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Speaker 1: looking at Instagram and looking at TikTok, like there's so

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Speaker 1: many good artists out there who have no following. They've

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Speaker 1: got like, you know, six hundred people following them, and

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Speaker 1: they're actually very good, and so I just started taking

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Speaker 1: submissions from those people. Now I I called, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I mean you'll get this joke right away. I

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Speaker 1: started calling the chat the A and Army. So it's

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Speaker 1: like it's like, you know, nine hundred people whose job

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Speaker 1: it is to go find me the best stuff, and

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Speaker 1: they do. They go, they go and find the good

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Speaker 1: stuff and they bring it to me, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the more they say, the more they shout,

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Speaker 1: like look at this one, look at this one. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's like pretty good. So cool. Yeah, And so I've

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Speaker 1: been I do two to three, starting like a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago, I've been able to do two to

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Speaker 1: three brand new songs all like I'm in a morning,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably like a stream and a half. I'd get

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Speaker 1: a song done from scratch to like finished, and I

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Speaker 1: send them something that's effectively like mixed and mastered. It's

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Speaker 1: incredible that they can release. It's so fun, man, it's

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Speaker 1: really really fun. And the fans, I mean, you can

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Speaker 1: imagine how excited they are, right and and some of

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Speaker 1: the cases what I haven't like talked to the fans

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Speaker 1: on the channel about actually I'm telling you about this

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Speaker 1: is that I will reach out to somebody and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: that thing you posted on TikTok or Instagram was really cool?

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Speaker 1: Would you want me to produce it? And I say

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Speaker 1: that because they've used the hashtag. They've used shinoda produce

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Speaker 1: me as the hashtag would do. So they've they've raised

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Speaker 1: their hand and said I want Mike to produce me.

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Speaker 1: So I hit them on the DMS and I say,

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Speaker 1: you want me to produce and they always say yes,

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Speaker 1: and then half the time they say I haven't finished

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Speaker 1: the song though, Like the thing I posted is it's

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Speaker 1: a verse and a chorus, and I don't have a

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Speaker 1: second verse. I don't have a bridge or any you know,

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Speaker 1: middle aid or whatever. I don't have anything else. And

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Speaker 1: so it's like, okay, like take your time, don't rush it,

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Speaker 1: because I want you to be I want you to

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Speaker 1: submit something you love, because like the whole idea is

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Speaker 1: for you to get to more people than you've already

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Speaker 1: got to. So give me something great and when it's ready,

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Speaker 1: then send it to me and I and that's generally

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Speaker 1: it's if it's if it's somebody in that scenario I

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Speaker 1: find that they're getting they get back to me within

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Speaker 1: like three or four days, And what do they usually

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Speaker 1: get back to you with like a more expanded same demo,

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Speaker 1: but with all the parts. Yeah, it's usually like we

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Speaker 1: we transfer link or something like that with multi tracked vocals,

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Speaker 1: and I always tell them like I'll tell them like

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Speaker 1: speed it up like to this bpm or whatever, or

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Speaker 1: I'll tell them make sure it's in your like very

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Speaker 1: best range. It sounded low to me, but up to you.

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Speaker 1: And then I can and they can go crazy on

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Speaker 1: the on the over dubs and harmonies and background vocal

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Speaker 1: whatever else they want to do, they do, but they

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Speaker 1: do that before the track is before there's a track.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct, Yeah, before there's a before there's a track.

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Speaker 1: So what you get is basically finished vocal stems for

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Speaker 1: a song. Yeah, and then you start from scrat you

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Speaker 1: take it as an a cappella yeah, and you build

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Speaker 1: music to support whatever that is. Yeah. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: when we were doing the Thousand Sons Together that at

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Speaker 1: the end of that record, before the first single, The

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Speaker 1: Catalyst was the single on that record, before the single

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Speaker 1: came out, so no fan had heard the song. We

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Speaker 1: released pieces of stems to that song and we told

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Speaker 1: them take these pieces, make a song out of them.

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Speaker 1: We didn't give them enough to know what the song

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Speaker 1: even was. We just said, take pieces and make a

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Speaker 1: song out of it, and whoever's thing is the coolest

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Speaker 1: to us, we're going to put you on our record,

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Speaker 1: on the album itself, and we ended up putting them on.

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Speaker 1: I think it was When They Come for Me was

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Speaker 1: the song we put them on. But we chose it

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Speaker 1: based on who is like, as I recall, like I

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Speaker 1: could be getting some of this wrong, but as I recall,

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Speaker 1: it was like we gave them pieces to remix, but

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Speaker 1: they'd never heard the song they were remixing, so I

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Speaker 1: called it like the premix, like they just they had

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Speaker 1: to just assume the song. And that's why I feel

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's something to that, something about that

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Speaker 1: that relates to this where it's like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you were thinking your song is, but here's what

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Speaker 1: I hear, just based on that vocal on a grid

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Speaker 1: so cool. It's fun, man, super fun. That Thousand Sons

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Speaker 1: is my favorite of the things we worked on together.

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Speaker 1: That's my favorite, just because I feel like it really is.

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Speaker 1: It felt like the beginning of something new and something

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Speaker 1: new and really good. We didn't like the record before

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Speaker 1: it Minutes to Midnight was that the whole effort the whole.

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Speaker 1: When we first met, you asked the band, what do

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Speaker 1: you guys envision doing with this album? Like why why

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Speaker 1: are we talking like what you want to do? And

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Speaker 1: we all said, like we want to we want to

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Speaker 1: redefine the identity the band, Like the whole point was

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Speaker 1: to make something that didn't sound like the stuff the

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Speaker 1: people that already heard, because albums one and two were

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Speaker 1: so similar. And You're like, great, that's exactly how I feel,

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Speaker 1: and He's you said, I don't know if I would

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Speaker 1: want to work with the band if you didn't feel

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Speaker 1: that way. So it's great. We're all on the same

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Speaker 1: page and we just kind of hit it off from there,

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Speaker 1: and that first record we did together, it was a

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Speaker 1: very long, hard process, was very difficult. We were like

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty demos eighteen months or something, and

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Speaker 1: you and I had a couple conversations towards the end

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Speaker 1: of it where I was like, Rick, I can't do

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Speaker 1: this anymore. It's like we're turning it into guns n'

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Speaker 1: roses Chinese democracy. We're just gonna be in the studio

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Speaker 1: for years on this thing, so we need to put

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Speaker 1: a stop to it. And I think that's because we

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Speaker 1: hadn't gotten to the place place yet where we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get on the next record, and I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: like just have our heads down underground until we thought

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Speaker 1: we were there. I don't think we could have gotten

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Speaker 1: there on one try. It was a two record evolution, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think it worked fine, and it ended up

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Speaker 1: being more of a somewhat more smoother transition for the

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Speaker 1: audience as well, because yeah, oh god, it would you

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Speaker 1: imagine if they had been if if Thousand Sons came

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Speaker 1: out first, it would have just been, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: there would have been a lot of people who just said,

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Speaker 1: fuck these guys. Yeah, yeah, that even as it was

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Speaker 1: that album, like a Thousand Sons was one or five stars,

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Speaker 1: like it was a solid two and a half star record,

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Speaker 1: because nobody was in the middle. Everybody was on what

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Speaker 1: we love it or we hate it every day, which

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Speaker 1: is which is there is no better way to know

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Speaker 1: you took it as far as it needs to go.

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Speaker 1: When people love it or hate it and no one's

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Speaker 1: in the middle, that it tells you everything. That's the

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Speaker 1: dream is to have people love it or really hate it.

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Speaker 1: Totally totally agreed. I remember us having a lot of

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Speaker 1: conversations about like music technology stuff around the time of

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Speaker 1: soos and do you know what I'm saying, Like you've

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Speaker 1: always been interested in well, I mean you've always been

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Speaker 1: interested in cutting edge technology. Let me ask you this,

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Speaker 1: is there stuff in music technology that you're interested in

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Speaker 1: right now? And then beyond that, is there stuff in

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Speaker 1: technology at large that you're really interested in? These days?

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in how blockchain is going to affect music distribution.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to a place where if an artist

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Speaker 1: makes something that can put it out and people who

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Speaker 1: want it can get to it. Even from the early

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Speaker 1: days of hip hop, it's always been a struggle of

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Speaker 1: people wanting to silence hip hop. I mean the right

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Speaker 1: to express your feelings. You're not saying what's No one

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Speaker 1: knows what is or isn't. All you have is All

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Speaker 1: we have is our experience of the world and we

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Speaker 1: share it. And as artists, that's what the game is.

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Speaker 1: It's just sharing what you notice that no one else notices,

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Speaker 1: or that what you notice that other people notice and

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Speaker 1: like oh yeah that or not or something to react to.

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Speaker 1: You know, Like as we talked about, I like the

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Speaker 1: fact that the people who vote one star for a

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Speaker 1: thousand sons get to say that. It's like, that's right,

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Speaker 1: that's what that's their opinion. They don't have to like it.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, Yeah right, No, I love I mean you

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Speaker 1: know this, I love polarizing music. I love stuff that, like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, one of my favorite groups ever is something

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Speaker 1: like I had said this the other day. We did

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Speaker 1: a remix. We gave you know, one hundred guess yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gave we did we let one hundred gecks remix

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Speaker 1: one step closer, And so obviously the fans were like, wait,

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Speaker 1: that's what they look like. Wait, that's what it sounds like,

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Speaker 1: like like they could they hate, like so many people

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Speaker 1: were hated it so much, and then other people were like,

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Speaker 1: this is their favorite thing. I posted about it because

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Speaker 1: I was seeing all that. I was like, you guys know,

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Speaker 1: like ever since from from Public Enemy to Death Grips, like,

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Speaker 1: I love stuff that. I love that dissonance. I love that,

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Speaker 1: like Visceral. It takes it's hard to like get that

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Speaker 1: like in tune with almost like your intuition to like

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Speaker 1: make those weird sonic experiments to make something sound that way,

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Speaker 1: like you don't get you don't arrive at m one

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Speaker 1: hundred guess or like by the Way, or like Umru,

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Speaker 1: or like Sophie, you don't arrive at that just in

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Speaker 1: a day, like screwing around and mistakenly like making it.

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Speaker 1: Like there's so much work and experimentation and like self

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Speaker 1: reflection in a sense that that is required to find

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Speaker 1: that that sonic like identity. I love that work absolutely

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Speaker 1: me too. I can remember the first time I heard

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Speaker 1: Sophie and how my mind was blown, just like you know,

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Speaker 1: like Lemonade song destroyed Me. Destroy was so cool, it

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Speaker 1: was so original and so cool. I can't believe Sophie

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Speaker 1: passed away, kind of believe it. Yeah, it's crazy. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back with Mike Shinoda and Rick Rubin after a

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Speaker 1: quick break. We're back with more from Mike Shinoda and

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Speaker 1: Rick Rubin. What's your first memory of music in your life.

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Speaker 1: I remembered listening to my parents' records. They had like

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Speaker 1: a what my dad would call a high five system.

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Speaker 1: Any we play vinyl, and I remember their music like

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Speaker 1: they didn't listen to stuff that was very exciting to me.

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Speaker 1: They listened to a lot of like slower seventies, like

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Speaker 1: almost sounded like ballads and love songs. It was like

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Speaker 1: this whole soft rock period. And then honestly, like the

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Speaker 1: first record that I was like, what is that was

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Speaker 1: Beastie Boys License Ill. Wow. That was the first time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean music was happening, was happening all over the place.

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Speaker 1: But the first record that I was obsessed with was

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Speaker 1: was Licensed Ill. And that opened the door for because

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Speaker 1: it's funny, it's weird to think that, like at the time,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known that that hip hop was, that

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Speaker 1: these guys were underdogs, that the style of music was

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Speaker 1: being what you'd call it today, you'd call it a meme,

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Speaker 1: like they was being it was being minimized as like

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Speaker 1: not real music, it's just a bunch of and part

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Speaker 1: of that there was a racism involved with that too.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it's just these black guys talking over

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Speaker 1: other people's beats, other people's songs, so like it's not

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Speaker 1: music right. But to me, I was like, these are

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Speaker 1: the first songs that I've ever felt like, that's that's

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Speaker 1: what I listened to, and I memorized every word. I

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Speaker 1: knew everything. Then I was buying Ella Cool J and

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Speaker 1: I was buying Run DMC. Eventually, like Iced tea and

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Speaker 1: stuff that my parents didn't know what I was listening to,

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Speaker 1: had a lot more profanity and whatever. My mom. I

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Speaker 1: tried to get the first the debut Cypress Hill record

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Speaker 1: for Chris Smith, and my mom like Christmas Day came

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Speaker 1: and went and I didn't get it, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: that was like the number one thing on my life.

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Speaker 1: I had more expensive things on my list, but the

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Speaker 1: number one thing was the Cypress Hill CD. My mom

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Speaker 1: is like, are you kidding? She's like, I realized that's

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Speaker 1: what you wanted, but like, do you see the names

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Speaker 1: of the songs? How I could just kill a man

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Speaker 1: and pigs and hole in the head. She's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not buying you any album with that you cannot listen.

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Speaker 1: I had that album the next day. I think I

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Speaker 1: went I found a way to get it, like in me.

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Speaker 1: As soon as I knew that, She's like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: buying it for you. Well I get this record, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: because we didn't believe that, Like no, but any any

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Speaker 1: person who's ever been on that side of the equation knows,

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Speaker 1: like listening to this stuff, it's like, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: go and like do anything. I'm not gonna go shoot

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Speaker 1: cops because I listened to Cypress Hill. That's stupid, obviously, Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was funny like I thought. I thought they were hysterical.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, all of those things, like there

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Speaker 1: was something I related to in terms of like this

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Speaker 1: feeling of like being an outsider, and I think it

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Speaker 1: was a I think it had to do a little

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Speaker 1: bit with being mixed race and like people would think

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Speaker 1: I do. Even nobody ever knew what I was. I

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Speaker 1: was just like, oh, they just talkally speak to me

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Speaker 1: in Spanish. I was like, I'm not Mexican life. So

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Speaker 1: if your entry into your love of music is hip hop,

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Speaker 1: did you start with the idea of making music? Did

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Speaker 1: it start with the idea of being a writer and

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Speaker 1: writing at being an MC or did you think about

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Speaker 1: making beats? Where were you on the scale? My mom

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Speaker 1: made me do piano, so I was doing I was

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Speaker 1: listening to rap and I was playing classical piano and

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Speaker 1: I hate I didn't really care. I didn't hate classical,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't care for it. I was just doing

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Speaker 1: it because it was a class that my mom was

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Speaker 1: making me take. I think an important moment was around

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Speaker 1: my must have been in junior high I'm gonna say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Like twelve ish, thirteen ish, my piano

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Speaker 1: teacher had a songwriting contest with another teacher or a

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Speaker 1: couple of teachers. So there's a recital, and before the recital,

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Speaker 1: everybody submitted their their songs on paper, and you play.

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Speaker 1: Everybody played their song too in the concert, and then

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Speaker 1: and then afterwards you went down a hallway and they

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Speaker 1: put like ribbons on the songs that won, and I

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Speaker 1: won first place, and I won and there were kids

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Speaker 1: who were they're like high school kids who had submitted

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Speaker 1: songs and I was I beat them, and that was

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Speaker 1: the first moment where I was like, oh, that's so crazy.

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Speaker 1: I beat that, like I've I've wrote a better song

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Speaker 1: than those guys. And I was like looking at their

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Speaker 1: thinking about what they played and looking at theirs and

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Speaker 1: like figuring out, like why, I don't know, why do

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Speaker 1: you remember the piece of music? I can still play it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's basically a thirteen year olds version of like a

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Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons theme, Like imagine the most simple medieval

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Speaker 1: like fifths and a minor and that's it's that, Like

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Speaker 1: that's all it is. It sounds like the hobbit like

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Speaker 1: so that and I don't know, I guess that's what

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Speaker 1: I was into since I was also drawing all the time.

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Speaker 1: I drew a lot of that type of thing, So

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Speaker 1: those things all converge. So eventually shortly after that, I know,

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Speaker 1: I went to my piano teacher and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to get more into like writing music. I

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Speaker 1: love it and I want to write stuff like my

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Speaker 1: favorite rap songs, So like, can we do more blues

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Speaker 1: and jazz? And she was like, well, number one, like

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Speaker 1: I'm not your best resource for that kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of music, partially because jazz in particular is so specific

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Speaker 1: and it's not something she studied or really and there

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Speaker 1: was an improvisation element to it too, so she's like,

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Speaker 1: this is this goes outside of the academic trading that

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Speaker 1: I'm prepared to teach you. The other thing is you

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about, she said to me, with the

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Speaker 1: other thing you're talking about is making and recording things,

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Speaker 1: and that's not what I do. So she basically talked

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Speaker 1: me into quitting her lessons. She said, you should go

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Speaker 1: buy a keyboard and buy these types of pieces of

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Speaker 1: equipment to learn, and you'll learn hands on how to

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Speaker 1: use it. And if you can imagine, I always say,

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Speaker 1: like two people, imagine somebody who makes their living teaching

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Speaker 1: students piano and is telling their student to quit piano

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Speaker 1: because it's the right thing. Like there's them no more admirable,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. I always incredible, incredible. So you're you're so lucky,

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Speaker 1: You're so super lucky, super lucky. Big lesson too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what was the recommended equipment then? Like what did you

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Speaker 1: start with? Well? I got she said to get a

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Speaker 1: keyboard that had other sounds so I can start playing

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Speaker 1: different sounds with the same notes that I already knew,

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Speaker 1: which I did. And then after that I think it

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Speaker 1: was um like an SM fifty seven, Mike a task

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Speaker 1: Camp four track, and then my big purchases were I

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Speaker 1: got a little Mackey mixing console and a and a

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Speaker 1: Kai S nine hundred sampler, and that needed to be

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Speaker 1: to be programmed with something else, so like you needed

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Speaker 1: to send MIDI to it. It didn't have an internal sequencer.

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Speaker 1: So I bought this Eleasis I think it's they're called.

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Speaker 1: I think it's an HR sixteen drum machine. And I

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Speaker 1: could use the HR sixteen as a drum machine or

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Speaker 1: I could shut the volume off and run the sampler

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Speaker 1: off of it, and then I was Then I was

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Speaker 1: off to the races. That's how my band started. It's

379
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Speaker 1: once I got those pieces of gear. I was making beats.

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Speaker 1: My friend was coming over with his guitar, and we

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Speaker 1: were making like we started by making joke tracks, like

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Speaker 1: we were making almost like we think of like weird

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Speaker 1: Al Yankovic, Like we had this thing, this thing that

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Speaker 1: was like like G Funk Snoop Dogg style Gfunk Gangster

385
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Speaker 1: app his group peripheral group was the dog Pound, so

386
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Speaker 1: ours was the Pooch Pound, and we had this we

387
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Speaker 1: had this song where we were North Coast killers, so

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00:20:52,996 --> 00:20:56,556
Speaker 1: we hated Canadians, so stupid my friends. It was only

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Speaker 1: to make our friends laugh and to get and meanwhile

390
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Speaker 1: like learn how to use the gear like I was.

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Speaker 1: The more songs I made, as stupid as they were,

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Speaker 1: they made my friends laugh and I was learning how

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Speaker 1: to put a song together. Well, that that was how

394
00:21:08,356 --> 00:21:11,116
Speaker 1: to be. The album that influenced you is made as well.

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Speaker 1: It was like it was just everything was written with

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00:21:13,196 --> 00:21:16,276
Speaker 1: the idea of making our friends laugh and that's all. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was never thought past that yeah. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that the fact that you started learning piano before getting

399
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Speaker 1: into the production aspect of recording turned out to be

400
00:21:29,996 --> 00:21:32,476
Speaker 1: a good thing for you? I do. I mean for me,

401
00:21:32,516 --> 00:21:35,116
Speaker 1: that was like those are fundamentals, those are your building blocks.

402
00:21:35,196 --> 00:21:37,076
Speaker 1: Like I don't know if I don't know what I

403
00:21:37,076 --> 00:21:39,316
Speaker 1: would have done. I don't know if I would have

404
00:21:39,316 --> 00:21:42,276
Speaker 1: had the tools to get excited. Yeah, if I didn't

405
00:21:42,356 --> 00:21:45,036
Speaker 1: have that, right, if it was just about plugging things

406
00:21:45,076 --> 00:21:48,476
Speaker 1: in and making noises. Some people are very excited about

407
00:21:48,516 --> 00:21:51,076
Speaker 1: just making noises and they don't have to be musical.

408
00:21:51,396 --> 00:21:53,916
Speaker 1: But for me, there was always like hip hop was

409
00:21:53,956 --> 00:21:59,036
Speaker 1: based on hookey moments, whether that's like finding the best

410
00:21:59,196 --> 00:22:02,276
Speaker 1: loop off of an obscure record and turning that into

411
00:22:02,356 --> 00:22:06,556
Speaker 1: a song or like creating your own That has always

412
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Speaker 1: been something I've been drawn to. Like everything is just

413
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Speaker 1: like like it's like lego bricks of the most catchy

414
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Speaker 1: little bits and then you assemble them into either something

415
00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:18,876
Speaker 1: that's kind of linear and doesn't change a lot, or

416
00:22:18,916 --> 00:22:20,916
Speaker 1: something that changes a lot, and it's more I think

417
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Speaker 1: of it as more like an arranged like pop song.

418
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Speaker 1: And then how has your relationship to the technology and

419
00:22:29,956 --> 00:22:32,756
Speaker 1: the technology change from then, so we know what you

420
00:22:32,796 --> 00:22:36,516
Speaker 1: started with. How is that different than what you use now.

421
00:22:36,636 --> 00:22:40,356
Speaker 1: Let's say so in the beginning of Lincoln Park's career,

422
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Speaker 1: it was very much of like a hip hop you

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Speaker 1: remember you probably remember this very much of a hip

424
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Speaker 1: hop approach, where it was like track first and vocals

425
00:22:48,436 --> 00:22:52,396
Speaker 1: on the track. And then when we met you, you said, okay, well,

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00:22:52,516 --> 00:22:54,636
Speaker 1: I remember this one conversation you and I had where

427
00:22:54,956 --> 00:22:57,196
Speaker 1: You're like, well, have you got have you ever you

428
00:22:57,236 --> 00:22:59,636
Speaker 1: know you're since I was like the primary writer, you

429
00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:03,316
Speaker 1: were like, have you ever done a song demo starting

430
00:23:03,316 --> 00:23:05,636
Speaker 1: with just vocals and an instrument like you you know,

431
00:23:05,676 --> 00:23:08,436
Speaker 1: piano and vocals would seem obvious? And I was like,

432
00:23:08,556 --> 00:23:10,716
Speaker 1: usually not, but like there have been a couple cases.

433
00:23:10,796 --> 00:23:12,636
Speaker 1: You hear like which ones And I'm like, well, in

434
00:23:12,676 --> 00:23:15,116
Speaker 1: the end and breaking the habits like big So our

435
00:23:15,156 --> 00:23:18,676
Speaker 1: biggest songs were the ones that started that way, and

436
00:23:18,716 --> 00:23:20,316
Speaker 1: he like looked at me like this. I was like,

437
00:23:20,396 --> 00:23:23,276
Speaker 1: I know, Rick, Like, I know, it's not that I

438
00:23:23,476 --> 00:23:25,716
Speaker 1: it's not that I don't recognize it, it's that it's

439
00:23:25,716 --> 00:23:27,676
Speaker 1: hard for me to do for some reason, I don't

440
00:23:27,756 --> 00:23:29,436
Speaker 1: want to sit down to do it. And then I

441
00:23:29,476 --> 00:23:32,876
Speaker 1: don't want to do it, and it was just because

442
00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:36,116
Speaker 1: it was so comfortable doing it the other way. I think, yeah,

443
00:23:36,156 --> 00:23:38,996
Speaker 1: that's really funny. Not that we didn't have good results

444
00:23:38,996 --> 00:23:41,116
Speaker 1: doing it the other way too, we did, yeah, and

445
00:23:41,156 --> 00:23:43,236
Speaker 1: then eventually, so I think that the next step in

446
00:23:43,276 --> 00:23:47,956
Speaker 1: the evolution was learning how to like identify parts in

447
00:23:47,996 --> 00:23:51,596
Speaker 1: a more abstract way, Like I don't need to have

448
00:23:51,676 --> 00:23:55,636
Speaker 1: the full backdrop of a fully produced track to get

449
00:23:55,676 --> 00:23:58,836
Speaker 1: me excited to make words and melodies or to make

450
00:23:58,996 --> 00:24:01,756
Speaker 1: rap lyrics or whatever. I can make a great rap

451
00:24:01,796 --> 00:24:05,476
Speaker 1: song off a click track, and that's happened so and

452
00:24:05,516 --> 00:24:08,316
Speaker 1: that In terms of technology, I remember when we had

453
00:24:08,356 --> 00:24:11,676
Speaker 1: to have like, you know, like a computer rig the

454
00:24:11,676 --> 00:24:14,876
Speaker 1: size of a refrigerator to make a song. Now I

455
00:24:14,956 --> 00:24:17,356
Speaker 1: gonna do it on my phone. I had a nice

456
00:24:17,396 --> 00:24:19,876
Speaker 1: a couple of nice sessions with Tom Morello a few

457
00:24:19,956 --> 00:24:22,236
Speaker 1: years ago, and we didn't come up with much, but

458
00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:23,956
Speaker 1: it was just nice to like get together and hang

459
00:24:23,956 --> 00:24:26,156
Speaker 1: out and pick his brain in whatever. But I love

460
00:24:26,236 --> 00:24:28,036
Speaker 1: Tom and he's credible. And one of the things that

461
00:24:28,076 --> 00:24:30,196
Speaker 1: he's all about is like he's got his pedal board,

462
00:24:30,196 --> 00:24:32,636
Speaker 1: he's got his guitar, Like it's punk rock it's like

463
00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:36,516
Speaker 1: not a lot of stuff doesn't want it. He doesn't

464
00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:39,076
Speaker 1: even want the newer version of his wah pedal, like

465
00:24:39,116 --> 00:24:43,236
Speaker 1: he just wants the old one. And that got me thinking, like, yeah,

466
00:24:43,276 --> 00:24:45,396
Speaker 1: you know what, Like I've got a lot of plugins,

467
00:24:45,916 --> 00:24:48,116
Speaker 1: got so many of them, and once you know how

468
00:24:48,116 --> 00:24:50,476
Speaker 1: they work, like you can download a brand new plug

469
00:24:50,516 --> 00:24:54,036
Speaker 1: in and already know how it works. But my tried

470
00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:56,116
Speaker 1: and true stuff, like there's some there's some stuff that

471
00:24:56,156 --> 00:24:58,156
Speaker 1: I know that I've used for years that like just

472
00:24:58,236 --> 00:25:00,836
Speaker 1: works really well, and it's kind of signature stuff, and

473
00:25:00,876 --> 00:25:02,596
Speaker 1: I just know how to manipulate it to find a

474
00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:04,436
Speaker 1: new thing too that doesn't have to be the same

475
00:25:04,476 --> 00:25:06,236
Speaker 1: sound every time. I just know how to get in

476
00:25:06,276 --> 00:25:09,436
Speaker 1: there by plugging in this sampler to that guitar dull

477
00:25:09,476 --> 00:25:11,516
Speaker 1: to that speaker and it's and miking it with this

478
00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:14,316
Speaker 1: mic and it sounds great. When did you start with guitar?

479
00:25:15,076 --> 00:25:18,796
Speaker 1: When I had to? When it was like it was

480
00:25:18,916 --> 00:25:21,876
Speaker 1: like my friends. I used to play casually with my

481
00:25:21,876 --> 00:25:23,996
Speaker 1: friend who was like he was taking guitar lessons. He

482
00:25:24,036 --> 00:25:25,676
Speaker 1: was way into Zeppelin. He would teach me a couple

483
00:25:25,676 --> 00:25:28,516
Speaker 1: of the like riffs and stuff. But I started really

484
00:25:28,516 --> 00:25:30,476
Speaker 1: getting into it as the band was starting to take off,

485
00:25:30,756 --> 00:25:33,556
Speaker 1: just because we needed a second guitar player and I

486
00:25:33,716 --> 00:25:36,076
Speaker 1: and the riffs weren't hard to play. I don't think

487
00:25:36,116 --> 00:25:38,436
Speaker 1: I ever asked you how did how did Lincoln Park start?

488
00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:41,956
Speaker 1: It was really just me and my Like, remember I

489
00:25:41,956 --> 00:25:45,436
Speaker 1: told you about the joke songs. My friend Mark and

490
00:25:45,476 --> 00:25:50,876
Speaker 1: I were doing that. We made four real songs and

491
00:25:51,356 --> 00:25:53,596
Speaker 1: sent those to this guy who's like it was. He

492
00:25:53,636 --> 00:25:55,556
Speaker 1: was an A and R guy. He put the record

493
00:25:55,636 --> 00:25:59,956
Speaker 1: labels address on the back of the CDs was Immortal Records,

494
00:26:00,316 --> 00:26:03,516
Speaker 1: and they had corn and Incubus and so, and the

495
00:26:04,236 --> 00:26:06,236
Speaker 1: mailing address was on the bat So we just sent

496
00:26:06,276 --> 00:26:09,596
Speaker 1: it there and it was just like whatever. And then

497
00:26:09,636 --> 00:26:12,116
Speaker 1: he called us and we were like, holy shit, we

498
00:26:12,236 --> 00:26:14,196
Speaker 1: have to go in now, we have to go see

499
00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:20,156
Speaker 1: this guy. And he was so flabbergasted that we made

500
00:26:20,356 --> 00:26:23,636
Speaker 1: the music that we were making on that cassette four

501
00:26:23,756 --> 00:26:27,236
Speaker 1: track and sample that thing I described he was. He

502
00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:28,916
Speaker 1: was like, okay, so how many people are in the band.

503
00:26:28,956 --> 00:26:30,836
Speaker 1: We were like two. He's like, who plays all the

504
00:26:30,956 --> 00:26:33,076
Speaker 1: who plays the drums? I was like, it's our all

505
00:26:33,116 --> 00:26:37,436
Speaker 1: samples and like drum machines, and he's like well, I

506
00:26:37,556 --> 00:26:39,756
Speaker 1: hear like multiple guitars and bass, and he was like, yeah,

507
00:26:39,756 --> 00:26:42,836
Speaker 1: we switch off on that stuff. And he's like, do

508
00:26:42,956 --> 00:26:46,276
Speaker 1: you have you ever played live? We're like no, Like,

509
00:26:46,596 --> 00:26:49,516
Speaker 1: have you ever been in a real studio. No. He's like, okay,

510
00:26:49,716 --> 00:26:52,356
Speaker 1: so you need to do everything, like please get a

511
00:26:52,356 --> 00:26:55,716
Speaker 1: band together, please play shows, please get into a real

512
00:26:55,756 --> 00:26:58,276
Speaker 1: studio and record, and when you do some of those things,

513
00:26:58,276 --> 00:26:59,996
Speaker 1: to come back and play me what you're doing. Like,

514
00:27:00,036 --> 00:27:01,756
Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is great. You guys are

515
00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:04,996
Speaker 1: just you have a really like long way to go

516
00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:08,036
Speaker 1: before you're doing you can You're gonna experience so many things.

517
00:27:08,036 --> 00:27:09,556
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear how good it is once

518
00:27:09,556 --> 00:27:11,996
Speaker 1: you get to that point. And his story is that

519
00:27:12,036 --> 00:27:14,716
Speaker 1: we never came back. I obviously know that we did.

520
00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:17,396
Speaker 1: We did send him more demos and he was not interested.

521
00:27:17,836 --> 00:27:19,676
Speaker 1: We would have we would have killed to get on

522
00:27:19,716 --> 00:27:21,516
Speaker 1: there to be signed by that label, and I am

523
00:27:21,516 --> 00:27:25,036
Speaker 1: positive we sent them demos. But yeah, it ended up

524
00:27:25,076 --> 00:27:28,836
Speaker 1: being that Mark was I've known I've been like super

525
00:27:28,836 --> 00:27:31,516
Speaker 1: super close friends with Mark since we were since around

526
00:27:31,556 --> 00:27:34,836
Speaker 1: that age, since twelve, and we had to part ways

527
00:27:35,356 --> 00:27:38,916
Speaker 1: because he was going to give himself an ulcer being

528
00:27:38,956 --> 00:27:40,916
Speaker 1: in the band, Like he couldn't get up on stage

529
00:27:40,916 --> 00:27:43,756
Speaker 1: in front of people. He had a panic attacks. He

530
00:27:43,836 --> 00:27:46,676
Speaker 1: was just freaking out whenever. He was the kind of

531
00:27:46,676 --> 00:27:48,796
Speaker 1: guy that like, we would show up for our sound

532
00:27:48,836 --> 00:27:52,876
Speaker 1: check and he'd lash out at the monitor engineer, like

533
00:27:53,076 --> 00:27:55,516
Speaker 1: five minutes into the being at the club, and the

534
00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:58,476
Speaker 1: monitor engineer would just be like, fuck these kids, and

535
00:27:58,556 --> 00:28:00,956
Speaker 1: he'd screw us the whole night. Mike's would he feeding

536
00:28:00,956 --> 00:28:03,116
Speaker 1: back everywhere because he was just he literally just like

537
00:28:03,156 --> 00:28:05,676
Speaker 1: set the faders up and went to the bathroom. And

538
00:28:05,876 --> 00:28:07,796
Speaker 1: part of that was like, okay, Mark, like can you

539
00:28:07,836 --> 00:28:10,676
Speaker 1: please not scream at the guy who's in charge of

540
00:28:10,756 --> 00:28:12,676
Speaker 1: us not sounding like crap and having a fun night.

541
00:28:13,036 --> 00:28:15,356
Speaker 1: But he was just so panicked about the whole thing

542
00:28:15,356 --> 00:28:18,076
Speaker 1: all the time, and so like he at the end

543
00:28:18,076 --> 00:28:20,556
Speaker 1: of the day, he knew that it was just not

544
00:28:20,596 --> 00:28:23,076
Speaker 1: a good fit for him. He loved music, he loved

545
00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:27,196
Speaker 1: he actually loved more of it than just being on

546
00:28:27,276 --> 00:28:30,036
Speaker 1: stage part and he and he ended up being he manages,

547
00:28:30,396 --> 00:28:34,556
Speaker 1: helps manage you know, Mark Wakefield's system, great system of

548
00:28:34,556 --> 00:28:37,796
Speaker 1: a down, Alison Chain's Deftnes like so many great bands.

549
00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:41,916
Speaker 1: He's doing great, amazing, So he found what was right

550
00:28:42,076 --> 00:28:45,676
Speaker 1: for his life. It's like so funny how we the

551
00:28:45,836 --> 00:28:49,596
Speaker 1: path becomes clear? Yeah, you know exactly who was the

552
00:28:49,676 --> 00:28:53,676
Speaker 1: first of the members we of the classic assemblage of

553
00:28:53,756 --> 00:28:58,596
Speaker 1: Lincoln Park. Yeah, who was the first member after you? Brad? Right?

554
00:28:58,676 --> 00:29:00,716
Speaker 1: And how do you How did you know Brad? So

555
00:29:00,916 --> 00:29:03,956
Speaker 1: Brad was Mark's next door neighbor. It was like a

556
00:29:04,036 --> 00:29:06,956
Speaker 1: TV show, Like you could look out Mark's bedroom window

557
00:29:07,276 --> 00:29:09,916
Speaker 1: on the second story and throw a pebble and hit

558
00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:12,876
Speaker 1: Brad's window and Brad would open it and he'd be

559
00:29:12,956 --> 00:29:15,756
Speaker 1: in there with like his slightly long hair and his

560
00:29:15,916 --> 00:29:20,516
Speaker 1: like ibanez or whatever it was, practicing Metallica. And I

561
00:29:20,676 --> 00:29:23,076
Speaker 1: didn't know Brad very well in high school, like we

562
00:29:23,236 --> 00:29:25,396
Speaker 1: knew we knew of each other, and Mark was his

563
00:29:25,476 --> 00:29:28,436
Speaker 1: next door neighbor and whatever. But Brad hung with different people, remember,

564
00:29:28,556 --> 00:29:33,796
Speaker 1: like hip hop kids and metal kids. Didn't like co mingle. Yeah,

565
00:29:34,476 --> 00:29:37,676
Speaker 1: Mark was in a band with Brad before he was

566
00:29:37,876 --> 00:29:40,836
Speaker 1: with me. He was a little more of a rock

567
00:29:41,116 --> 00:29:44,476
Speaker 1: kid than me, Like he would he played me Rage

568
00:29:44,476 --> 00:29:46,556
Speaker 1: against Machine for the first time. He played me Chili

569
00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:48,876
Speaker 1: Peppers for the first time. He played anything that had

570
00:29:48,916 --> 00:29:52,236
Speaker 1: a rap like element to it. We saw our both

571
00:29:52,316 --> 00:29:56,956
Speaker 1: of our first show together was pe Anthrax, Primus and

572
00:29:57,076 --> 00:30:00,276
Speaker 1: Young Black Teenagers, and we saw in the crowd before

573
00:30:00,316 --> 00:30:02,596
Speaker 1: the show started. We saw Iced Tea in the crowd

574
00:30:02,636 --> 00:30:04,916
Speaker 1: and ran over and got his autograph before anybody else

575
00:30:05,156 --> 00:30:07,836
Speaker 1: like bothered him. So cool, what an InCred I mean?

576
00:30:07,836 --> 00:30:09,516
Speaker 1: So it's almost like a joke that was my first

577
00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:11,636
Speaker 1: concert because that's like what I ended up doing. So cool.

578
00:30:11,916 --> 00:30:16,476
Speaker 1: So but yeah, Brett Mark and I like they had

579
00:30:16,476 --> 00:30:18,876
Speaker 1: already been in bands together, and then I kind of

580
00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:21,036
Speaker 1: started writing stuff with Mark on the side just because

581
00:30:21,036 --> 00:30:22,796
Speaker 1: we were such close friends. And they had this they

582
00:30:22,796 --> 00:30:25,836
Speaker 1: had this awesome like like rap metal band called The Pricks,

583
00:30:26,556 --> 00:30:28,556
Speaker 1: which is such a punk rock nay. I love that name.

584
00:30:28,756 --> 00:30:31,436
Speaker 1: And when did Joe and Dave? Yeah, Brat was the

585
00:30:31,516 --> 00:30:34,036
Speaker 1: UCLA with Dave. I was at Art Center with Joe.

586
00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:37,036
Speaker 1: Rob was from a neighboring high school. And then eventually

587
00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:40,676
Speaker 1: we found Chester through we had gotten like an attorney

588
00:30:40,756 --> 00:30:43,116
Speaker 1: that was interested in us and a publisher who was

589
00:30:43,196 --> 00:30:46,596
Speaker 1: interested in us, and they found this kid from Arizona

590
00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:48,676
Speaker 1: named Chester who we should check out, like we were

591
00:30:48,956 --> 00:30:50,556
Speaker 1: trying out A bunch of people tried out, Like I

592
00:30:50,596 --> 00:30:52,676
Speaker 1: don't know how many people tried out a bunch of people,

593
00:30:52,716 --> 00:30:56,716
Speaker 1: and it was pretty obvious to us, as you can imagine. Yeah,

594
00:30:57,036 --> 00:31:00,436
Speaker 1: once the group got together, even even before you found Chester,

595
00:31:00,916 --> 00:31:04,836
Speaker 1: once you started making music together as a group, was

596
00:31:04,916 --> 00:31:08,916
Speaker 1: the direction of the sound very clear right from the beginning. Yeah,

597
00:31:09,116 --> 00:31:10,996
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was clear to the extent that,

598
00:31:11,116 --> 00:31:15,476
Speaker 1: like so even right now. It last year we released

599
00:31:15,676 --> 00:31:19,156
Speaker 1: um this Hybrid Theory box set, which I was when

600
00:31:19,236 --> 00:31:21,916
Speaker 1: it first started, the idea of putting out a box

601
00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:25,036
Speaker 1: set of our oldest demos and whatever was like, I

602
00:31:25,196 --> 00:31:26,996
Speaker 1: was like, that just sounds like you're cashing in on

603
00:31:27,276 --> 00:31:30,796
Speaker 1: whatever on Like you know, we're not doing other things

604
00:31:30,876 --> 00:31:32,676
Speaker 1: as a band, so like you're going to release this thing,

605
00:31:32,796 --> 00:31:35,116
Speaker 1: Like I'm not into it, but you're welcome to like

606
00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:37,916
Speaker 1: prove me wrong. I just I don't at face value,

607
00:31:37,916 --> 00:31:41,196
Speaker 1: I don't know why we would do that. And management

608
00:31:41,476 --> 00:31:43,756
Speaker 1: started to come back with some ideas about what it

609
00:31:43,796 --> 00:31:45,836
Speaker 1: could be, and they had already I had already sent

610
00:31:45,916 --> 00:31:49,196
Speaker 1: them some demos of things from back then for our

611
00:31:49,236 --> 00:31:51,876
Speaker 1: fan club that we didn't use, and they were like, well,

612
00:31:51,996 --> 00:31:54,676
Speaker 1: you've got all these things, and we know you've got more.

613
00:31:55,436 --> 00:31:59,156
Speaker 1: And other people have found demos and we found all

614
00:31:59,236 --> 00:32:03,236
Speaker 1: this material. They ended up finding like a whole hard

615
00:32:03,316 --> 00:32:08,236
Speaker 1: drive full of video from that time. So this conversation, like,

616
00:32:08,436 --> 00:32:12,876
Speaker 1: it's all documented on this Hybrid Theory twentieth edition thing

617
00:32:13,116 --> 00:32:14,716
Speaker 1: that we put out last year. If you want to

618
00:32:14,836 --> 00:32:17,356
Speaker 1: want to hear those early demos right after we stopped

619
00:32:17,396 --> 00:32:18,956
Speaker 1: making jokes songs and we we want to hear our

620
00:32:18,996 --> 00:32:22,996
Speaker 1: first three demos with Mark that's on Spotify right now. Wow,

621
00:32:23,196 --> 00:32:25,796
Speaker 1: so cool, and and I couldn't believe we found all

622
00:32:25,836 --> 00:32:27,676
Speaker 1: that stuff. So all this stuff is like top kind

623
00:32:27,716 --> 00:32:29,476
Speaker 1: of top of mind because we just went through all

624
00:32:29,516 --> 00:32:32,916
Speaker 1: of that and he was there, Like you can hear

625
00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:36,076
Speaker 1: my favorite one of my favorite tracks is track called

626
00:32:36,116 --> 00:32:39,396
Speaker 1: she Couldn't, which there's not a single distorted guitar in it.

627
00:32:39,836 --> 00:32:42,516
Speaker 1: It's a it's a hip hop beat with some really weird,

628
00:32:42,676 --> 00:32:47,636
Speaker 1: like weird organic like vocally sounding samples, and like it's

629
00:32:47,716 --> 00:32:50,876
Speaker 1: done on my old Akai S nine hundred, which is

630
00:32:50,876 --> 00:32:54,556
Speaker 1: like a twelve bit like boom bap sampler and has

631
00:32:54,956 --> 00:32:57,476
Speaker 1: a clean guitar with delay on it and Chester singing

632
00:32:57,516 --> 00:33:01,036
Speaker 1: the entire time. And we wouldn't one of the lines

633
00:33:01,076 --> 00:33:03,076
Speaker 1: as you are not alone in that song and I'm

634
00:33:03,116 --> 00:33:06,796
Speaker 1: like that everything in that song is stuff that we

635
00:33:06,956 --> 00:33:10,556
Speaker 1: were still that was the identity of the band until

636
00:33:10,996 --> 00:33:15,076
Speaker 1: like five six years later, Like it was still we

637
00:33:15,196 --> 00:33:21,796
Speaker 1: were still exploring that identity and catching up with ourselves

638
00:33:21,836 --> 00:33:24,516
Speaker 1: in a sense like amazing. It was all baked in

639
00:33:24,636 --> 00:33:26,436
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. It was all there. It was

640
00:33:26,476 --> 00:33:29,276
Speaker 1: just really messy. It's amazing too, And it wasn't It

641
00:33:29,476 --> 00:33:33,156
Speaker 1: wasn't conceptual. It was just you guys making the music

642
00:33:33,236 --> 00:33:38,796
Speaker 1: you like, yeah, and exploring different like facets of the

643
00:33:39,516 --> 00:33:43,356
Speaker 1: architecture that I already existed between us because we weren't

644
00:33:43,516 --> 00:33:48,396
Speaker 1: naturally all super good friends. We just had similar like

645
00:33:48,596 --> 00:33:52,636
Speaker 1: once we got interested in a thing creatively or stuff

646
00:33:52,756 --> 00:33:55,156
Speaker 1: something we would make, or something we would hear or

647
00:33:55,196 --> 00:33:58,196
Speaker 1: something we would see, then we geek out together. And

648
00:33:58,316 --> 00:34:01,036
Speaker 1: that's again there's things like oh, man, isn't that cool? Yeah,

649
00:34:01,036 --> 00:34:02,756
Speaker 1: it's so cool? Have you seen this? And we'd go

650
00:34:02,876 --> 00:34:05,596
Speaker 1: down these weird rabbit holes together because it because it

651
00:34:05,716 --> 00:34:09,516
Speaker 1: faced value, Like when Chester first auditioned for the band

652
00:34:09,676 --> 00:34:12,596
Speaker 1: and we and then we talked, and then we talked

653
00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:18,116
Speaker 1: after the audition a little more. The reservation my recollection

654
00:34:18,276 --> 00:34:21,796
Speaker 1: is the reservations that came up. Weren't about his singing obviously.

655
00:34:21,996 --> 00:34:24,916
Speaker 1: Everyone was like, he's the best singer, He's better than

656
00:34:24,996 --> 00:34:27,716
Speaker 1: anyone we're hearing on the radio, Like he's the best singer,

657
00:34:29,196 --> 00:34:32,276
Speaker 1: but his person, Like, but what kind of person is he? Like?

658
00:34:32,356 --> 00:34:34,316
Speaker 1: We know, we got the sense of like I think

659
00:34:34,356 --> 00:34:37,436
Speaker 1: he's like kind of into drugs, and like we got

660
00:34:37,596 --> 00:34:41,116
Speaker 1: Rob's in the band, Rob's straight edge, like Rob was

661
00:34:41,156 --> 00:34:43,676
Speaker 1: in the programs. He's an a for who knows how

662
00:34:43,716 --> 00:34:47,676
Speaker 1: long at that point, and that might be a rub,

663
00:34:47,876 --> 00:34:49,516
Speaker 1: like I don't know, And so we really had to

664
00:34:49,596 --> 00:34:54,356
Speaker 1: get to know him as a person before we could commit.

665
00:34:54,516 --> 00:34:56,396
Speaker 1: And that was the part it was like okay, yeah,

666
00:34:56,676 --> 00:35:00,076
Speaker 1: like we're really different, but we're definitely cool, Like we're

667
00:35:00,156 --> 00:35:03,596
Speaker 1: definitely we we like each other, and it's it's like

668
00:35:03,796 --> 00:35:06,076
Speaker 1: we're going to disagree on some things, as any band will,

669
00:35:06,236 --> 00:35:09,076
Speaker 1: especially with six people in it, but I think we're

670
00:35:09,196 --> 00:35:16,236
Speaker 1: fun sometimes that the fact that having outliers working together

671
00:35:17,476 --> 00:35:21,156
Speaker 1: leads to something that could never happen without those different

672
00:35:21,596 --> 00:35:27,876
Speaker 1: opposing energies coming together. It creates something much more intense

673
00:35:28,676 --> 00:35:31,516
Speaker 1: and much bigger. So I'm glad that you chose to

674
00:35:31,596 --> 00:35:33,396
Speaker 1: go out of your in a way go out of

675
00:35:33,436 --> 00:35:36,956
Speaker 1: your comfort zone to allow that to happen. It's like, well,

676
00:35:36,996 --> 00:35:41,716
Speaker 1: he's not one of us, but we can do this together. Yeah. Well,

677
00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:44,436
Speaker 1: I think what we realized is there wasn't there wasn't

678
00:35:44,476 --> 00:35:48,556
Speaker 1: an united US. There wasn't like us and us and him.

679
00:35:49,436 --> 00:35:52,716
Speaker 1: It was like Joe and Brad for example, like Joe's

680
00:35:52,756 --> 00:35:54,516
Speaker 1: favorite kind of stuff. Would you ever hear a group

681
00:35:54,516 --> 00:35:58,156
Speaker 1: called Lutirics. There's a rap group called the Lutirics, and

682
00:35:58,236 --> 00:36:01,276
Speaker 1: one of their songs they both rapped at the same

683
00:36:01,356 --> 00:36:04,076
Speaker 1: time and panned their vocals left and right, so they

684
00:36:04,116 --> 00:36:06,236
Speaker 1: were just it was a beat going and two guys

685
00:36:06,356 --> 00:36:09,196
Speaker 1: rapping different verses at once, and you go an you

686
00:36:09,276 --> 00:36:10,836
Speaker 1: listen to kind of one guy and you listen to

687
00:36:10,836 --> 00:36:12,636
Speaker 1: the other. But it wasn't it wasn't a type of

688
00:36:12,676 --> 00:36:14,636
Speaker 1: thing you'd want to just put on and listen to.

689
00:36:15,396 --> 00:36:17,756
Speaker 1: And Joe loved that kind of thing. That was like

690
00:36:17,836 --> 00:36:19,356
Speaker 1: one of in that time. It was his one of

691
00:36:19,396 --> 00:36:22,996
Speaker 1: his favorite records. Brad was meanwhile listening to Britney Spears

692
00:36:24,156 --> 00:36:26,716
Speaker 1: like right, So like we had to remind ourselves and

693
00:36:26,796 --> 00:36:31,316
Speaker 1: the conversation it's like all of us, are you know,

694
00:36:32,196 --> 00:36:36,876
Speaker 1: similarities or whatever, Like we overlap on certain things, but

695
00:36:37,036 --> 00:36:40,396
Speaker 1: we we definitely are polar opposites in a lot of

696
00:36:40,436 --> 00:36:44,436
Speaker 1: different ways. Like we we definitely rub this, there's friction

697
00:36:44,516 --> 00:36:47,156
Speaker 1: in a bunch of other ways. So this this other

698
00:36:47,236 --> 00:36:49,556
Speaker 1: guy who we don't didn't know very well at the time,

699
00:36:49,916 --> 00:36:53,756
Speaker 1: Like what's the difference between Brad and Joe and like

700
00:36:53,956 --> 00:36:57,756
Speaker 1: Brad and Chester, Like we'll have to find out. Yeah,

701
00:36:58,636 --> 00:37:05,276
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more from Mike Shinoda. We're

702
00:37:05,356 --> 00:37:08,356
Speaker 1: back with the rest of Rick's conversation with Mike Shinoda.

703
00:37:09,156 --> 00:37:13,756
Speaker 1: You've played all over the world and a lot of shows,

704
00:37:14,556 --> 00:37:18,236
Speaker 1: from very big shows to small shows over the course

705
00:37:18,316 --> 00:37:21,156
Speaker 1: of your career. Tell me what you've learned from playing

706
00:37:21,276 --> 00:37:24,516
Speaker 1: live that you've that you bring with you into the

707
00:37:24,676 --> 00:37:29,956
Speaker 1: music making process. M Sometimes I beat myself up a

708
00:37:30,036 --> 00:37:35,236
Speaker 1: little bit for not slowing down and like thinking more

709
00:37:35,516 --> 00:37:40,316
Speaker 1: deeply about like some of the bigger picture why and

710
00:37:40,476 --> 00:37:42,916
Speaker 1: what you know what I mean, because I know that

711
00:37:42,956 --> 00:37:44,516
Speaker 1: would be and part of me says, like that's the

712
00:37:44,636 --> 00:37:47,396
Speaker 1: right thing to do, to like think about the kinds

713
00:37:47,396 --> 00:37:50,636
Speaker 1: of questions you just asked. Then the other part of

714
00:37:50,676 --> 00:37:55,196
Speaker 1: me is like really loves like letting intuition drive the

715
00:37:55,876 --> 00:37:58,596
Speaker 1: ship and just going with it, because I feel like

716
00:37:59,156 --> 00:38:01,356
Speaker 1: it's not just the creative flow, but there's also like

717
00:38:01,436 --> 00:38:04,836
Speaker 1: a flow to things. Chester and I used to always

718
00:38:04,836 --> 00:38:08,236
Speaker 1: talk about like riding the wave. And sometimes you just

719
00:38:08,436 --> 00:38:12,796
Speaker 1: notice like, well, this came up in conversation yesterday randomly.

720
00:38:12,956 --> 00:38:14,636
Speaker 1: I don't know why that came up in conversation, And

721
00:38:14,716 --> 00:38:17,276
Speaker 1: then I got I saw it on a Twitter yesterday

722
00:38:17,396 --> 00:38:19,676
Speaker 1: or Instagram, and then and now we're talking about in

723
00:38:19,716 --> 00:38:22,556
Speaker 1: the studio and that Isn't it weird that that's come

724
00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:24,876
Speaker 1: up three times in two days and you just start

725
00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:26,996
Speaker 1: to pay attention to like little things like that. It's like, Okay,

726
00:38:27,036 --> 00:38:29,636
Speaker 1: well that feels like a pattern. It's just like in

727
00:38:29,716 --> 00:38:32,636
Speaker 1: the ether. Let's write a song about that. Why not?

728
00:38:32,836 --> 00:38:34,476
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. I mean, it's stupid,

729
00:38:34,556 --> 00:38:37,556
Speaker 1: but it's worth it seems like a thing. With that said,

730
00:38:37,836 --> 00:38:41,476
Speaker 1: I feel like the show thing I didn't, by the way,

731
00:38:41,516 --> 00:38:43,596
Speaker 1: I didn't just say that just to buy myself time

732
00:38:43,636 --> 00:38:46,316
Speaker 1: to think about the answer the question that was. By

733
00:38:46,356 --> 00:38:49,076
Speaker 1: the way, that was a great answer. I feel like

734
00:38:49,236 --> 00:38:54,076
Speaker 1: that's a thing that for me, like doing the things

735
00:38:54,156 --> 00:38:57,916
Speaker 1: that I do, I probably learned things from them consciously.

736
00:38:58,076 --> 00:39:01,676
Speaker 1: I probably learned some things from them subconsciously that I

737
00:39:01,796 --> 00:39:05,116
Speaker 1: don't know that I know because because at the end

738
00:39:05,156 --> 00:39:08,436
Speaker 1: of the day, when I'm making making a song, I

739
00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:12,076
Speaker 1: know it's up. Like just like any artist when you've

740
00:39:12,116 --> 00:39:13,756
Speaker 1: toured a bunch, you go, oh, that's not gonna be

741
00:39:13,876 --> 00:39:16,516
Speaker 1: very fun to play live. It's not question, it's like,

742
00:39:16,756 --> 00:39:18,316
Speaker 1: it's not like I wonder if it is, like no,

743
00:39:18,436 --> 00:39:22,276
Speaker 1: if it definitively is not. Like, So I've to now

744
00:39:22,356 --> 00:39:25,916
Speaker 1: make a decision as I'm writing it, like is it

745
00:39:26,436 --> 00:39:28,876
Speaker 1: a thing that I record or I write right now

746
00:39:29,396 --> 00:39:30,996
Speaker 1: because I'm going to have to live with it later.

747
00:39:32,276 --> 00:39:35,036
Speaker 1: I think maybe the reason I asked it is of

748
00:39:35,396 --> 00:39:37,476
Speaker 1: all the artists I've worked with, you were the first

749
00:39:38,396 --> 00:39:42,756
Speaker 1: band who didn't do the process like a band. So

750
00:39:43,676 --> 00:39:47,716
Speaker 1: it struck me as here are a group of people

751
00:39:47,836 --> 00:39:55,676
Speaker 1: who all are essentially producers, and they would create something

752
00:39:55,836 --> 00:39:58,796
Speaker 1: and share the files and pass around the files to

753
00:39:58,956 --> 00:40:00,916
Speaker 1: create it, and then at the end of the day

754
00:40:01,036 --> 00:40:06,276
Speaker 1: make the most interesting music. Virtually the whole process was virtual.

755
00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:09,516
Speaker 1: And then when it would come time to or you'd

756
00:40:09,556 --> 00:40:11,676
Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, who's gonna play what, how's this going

757
00:40:11,716 --> 00:40:13,756
Speaker 1: to work? How what would the band version be like

758
00:40:14,116 --> 00:40:17,716
Speaker 1: because it was never made like a banned version in

759
00:40:17,836 --> 00:40:21,156
Speaker 1: the recording. I was shocked when I found out, just

760
00:40:21,356 --> 00:40:25,716
Speaker 1: like how some people would like write a thing in

761
00:40:25,956 --> 00:40:29,196
Speaker 1: person or jam a thing out until they got the pieces.

762
00:40:29,316 --> 00:40:31,796
Speaker 1: Like we were talking about Tom earlier, like when they

763
00:40:31,836 --> 00:40:34,756
Speaker 1: were doing that first Rage record, they like just went

764
00:40:34,796 --> 00:40:37,636
Speaker 1: in and jam stuff and then Zach and the producer

765
00:40:37,716 --> 00:40:39,996
Speaker 1: would like assemble it and then he'd like rap over it.

766
00:40:40,516 --> 00:40:44,556
Speaker 1: I thought that was crazy, Like to just jam for

767
00:40:44,956 --> 00:40:47,876
Speaker 1: a couple weeks and walk away and then come back

768
00:40:48,076 --> 00:40:50,636
Speaker 1: a month or two later and have a record. That's

769
00:40:50,716 --> 00:40:52,956
Speaker 1: super weird to me because you're leaving all of your

770
00:40:53,316 --> 00:40:56,356
Speaker 1: You're leaving like all of the why what about all

771
00:40:56,356 --> 00:40:58,556
Speaker 1: the development time? In my head, I'm thinking, like I

772
00:40:58,636 --> 00:41:01,276
Speaker 1: could have if I had a good bit have peace

773
00:41:01,716 --> 00:41:04,516
Speaker 1: in the jam that I then took home and I

774
00:41:04,636 --> 00:41:07,636
Speaker 1: really thought about, And so this riff caught my ear.

775
00:41:08,076 --> 00:41:11,276
Speaker 1: What elements are that are cool? What if I change

776
00:41:11,356 --> 00:41:13,836
Speaker 1: the drum sound? What if I change the tempo? What

777
00:41:13,916 --> 00:41:16,476
Speaker 1: if I change instead of it being four bars, what

778
00:41:16,596 --> 00:41:18,916
Speaker 1: if it's two? What if it's eight? What if it's

779
00:41:18,956 --> 00:41:21,756
Speaker 1: instead of being that guitar, it's it's a keyboard. You

780
00:41:21,796 --> 00:41:23,996
Speaker 1: have a whole universe of ways to change it. I

781
00:41:24,036 --> 00:41:28,156
Speaker 1: think that's where the like producer slash hip hop producer

782
00:41:28,756 --> 00:41:33,076
Speaker 1: comes in, right. I love that process of experimentation. By

783
00:41:33,116 --> 00:41:35,716
Speaker 1: the way, the Twitch. Coming back to the twitch thing.

784
00:41:36,236 --> 00:41:39,036
Speaker 1: One thing that's awesome about doing that same process that

785
00:41:39,076 --> 00:41:41,716
Speaker 1: I'm talking about on twitch. I just had two thoughts

786
00:41:42,036 --> 00:41:44,836
Speaker 1: the Twitch thing. I can get immediate feedback from the fans.

787
00:41:44,876 --> 00:41:46,876
Speaker 1: You know, you're playing a thing on stage, like people

788
00:41:47,036 --> 00:41:50,076
Speaker 1: used to do this, people in the seventies. They'd write

789
00:41:50,076 --> 00:41:54,636
Speaker 1: a song, play it, and then they'd get audience feedback,

790
00:41:54,676 --> 00:41:56,156
Speaker 1: and then they change it and then go on the

791
00:41:56,196 --> 00:41:58,876
Speaker 1: next show and play it again. Oh tonight it was.

792
00:41:59,196 --> 00:42:01,796
Speaker 1: It got better feedback. But fans really love this part,

793
00:42:01,916 --> 00:42:03,996
Speaker 1: or the fans really reacted when we did this. So

794
00:42:04,036 --> 00:42:05,836
Speaker 1: then they kept that, and they changed other thing, and

795
00:42:05,836 --> 00:42:08,956
Speaker 1: they kept doing it. They kept doing this trial and

796
00:42:09,196 --> 00:42:11,396
Speaker 1: error with these test groups of people who are in

797
00:42:11,476 --> 00:42:14,276
Speaker 1: the club listening to them, and eventually the song got

798
00:42:14,356 --> 00:42:16,636
Speaker 1: good and they recorded it. They went into studio and

799
00:42:16,676 --> 00:42:18,556
Speaker 1: they play the exact same thing that they've worked up

800
00:42:18,956 --> 00:42:21,756
Speaker 1: however many times, and that was the track Twitch. I'm

801
00:42:21,836 --> 00:42:26,516
Speaker 1: on the channel, I'm recording. I'm writing and recording in

802
00:42:26,676 --> 00:42:31,156
Speaker 1: real time, very fast, and at every moment where I

803
00:42:31,276 --> 00:42:34,316
Speaker 1: go what's better this or that, I literally just asked

804
00:42:34,356 --> 00:42:36,836
Speaker 1: the chat. I can literally put a pole up. There's

805
00:42:36,836 --> 00:42:38,796
Speaker 1: sometimes there's people in the chat who are louder than others.

806
00:42:39,036 --> 00:42:41,076
Speaker 1: Other people don't want to talk. I can put a

807
00:42:41,116 --> 00:42:44,916
Speaker 1: poll up and get an and know exactly how popular

808
00:42:45,276 --> 00:42:47,636
Speaker 1: a choice is the other day, I had a song

809
00:42:47,796 --> 00:42:50,716
Speaker 1: that was like it was I had vocals and I

810
00:42:50,796 --> 00:42:53,796
Speaker 1: had like drums, and I was like, should I go

811
00:42:54,076 --> 00:42:59,436
Speaker 1: keyboard like a like a low whole note keyboard thing,

812
00:42:59,636 --> 00:43:02,516
Speaker 1: or should I do this like more funky bassline with

813
00:43:02,596 --> 00:43:05,636
Speaker 1: a live bass. So I did both, and I asked

814
00:43:05,676 --> 00:43:08,516
Speaker 1: the chat which one's better, and they and in my

815
00:43:08,636 --> 00:43:11,396
Speaker 1: mind they're both equally good. In their mind's eighty percent

816
00:43:11,476 --> 00:43:14,756
Speaker 1: for the belive base. So cool. So that's taking everything

817
00:43:14,796 --> 00:43:17,116
Speaker 1: we just talked about and wrapping it up into one

818
00:43:17,236 --> 00:43:20,396
Speaker 1: moment in four minutes, right, I'm jamming in real time,

819
00:43:20,596 --> 00:43:22,396
Speaker 1: like an idea pops in my head, my fingers go

820
00:43:22,476 --> 00:43:24,636
Speaker 1: to whatever, frets like, my fingers go whatever keys maybe

821
00:43:24,676 --> 00:43:28,916
Speaker 1: some accidentally like that's what's recorded. I've just now made

822
00:43:28,916 --> 00:43:30,676
Speaker 1: a thing. And then they can give me their feedback

823
00:43:30,716 --> 00:43:33,036
Speaker 1: in real time, and I can know, oh, the audience

824
00:43:33,676 --> 00:43:37,476
Speaker 1: actually prefers this thing. And now I'm it's done. I'm sorry,

825
00:43:37,516 --> 00:43:39,316
Speaker 1: it's not only is written, it's recorded, and I just

826
00:43:39,396 --> 00:43:42,396
Speaker 1: move on. So cool. There was also an aspect of

827
00:43:42,596 --> 00:43:46,356
Speaker 1: an artist playing playing live in a club and getting

828
00:43:46,396 --> 00:43:49,876
Speaker 1: the feedback that wasn't only based on the feedback coming

829
00:43:49,916 --> 00:43:54,476
Speaker 1: back from the audience, but how the artist's relationship to

830
00:43:54,556 --> 00:43:56,796
Speaker 1: the music changed when they're playing it in front of people,

831
00:43:56,996 --> 00:43:59,356
Speaker 1: which it does change. Like when you play a song

832
00:43:59,436 --> 00:44:02,996
Speaker 1: for the first time in front of people, you might realize, oh, this, uh,

833
00:44:03,196 --> 00:44:05,156
Speaker 1: this solo section is twice as long as as it

834
00:44:05,276 --> 00:44:08,436
Speaker 1: wants to be, or the opposite, it wants to go

835
00:44:08,596 --> 00:44:10,076
Speaker 1: longer at the end, you know, it wants to have

836
00:44:10,236 --> 00:44:14,316
Speaker 1: this Like you feel the energy of the music in

837
00:44:14,396 --> 00:44:17,876
Speaker 1: a different way when even just people are listening, not

838
00:44:18,116 --> 00:44:23,116
Speaker 1: based on their reaction. Yeah, I also realize if you're

839
00:44:23,196 --> 00:44:28,196
Speaker 1: playing the same song for twenty years, sometimes you play

840
00:44:28,276 --> 00:44:34,116
Speaker 1: with those things just like you just those those realities change,

841
00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:36,996
Speaker 1: Like we've played this song and back when we first

842
00:44:37,036 --> 00:44:40,436
Speaker 1: started playing this song, they really the fans wanted to

843
00:44:40,516 --> 00:44:42,596
Speaker 1: hear the album version and so did we If we

844
00:44:42,796 --> 00:44:44,876
Speaker 1: changed it, it was less, it was it made it

845
00:44:45,676 --> 00:44:49,516
Speaker 1: worse right, And then at a certain point, once everyone

846
00:44:49,596 --> 00:44:52,316
Speaker 1: has heard it that way, then not only did we

847
00:44:52,516 --> 00:44:54,076
Speaker 1: want to hear it a different way, like they wanted

848
00:44:54,076 --> 00:44:55,956
Speaker 1: to hear it a different way. So all of a sudden,

849
00:44:55,996 --> 00:44:57,516
Speaker 1: then it was like, well, let's take a song that's

850
00:44:57,556 --> 00:45:00,716
Speaker 1: two minutes and forty five seconds and expand it to

851
00:45:00,836 --> 00:45:03,556
Speaker 1: four minutes by like doing a brand new thing in

852
00:45:03,636 --> 00:45:06,676
Speaker 1: the bridge for like two minutes. Yeah, just because like

853
00:45:06,836 --> 00:45:09,396
Speaker 1: because now that's fresh. Now that's you've heard thing, and

854
00:45:09,476 --> 00:45:12,796
Speaker 1: now we can play with the expectation absolutely, and there

855
00:45:12,916 --> 00:45:16,516
Speaker 1: might even be a time in the future again we

856
00:45:16,676 --> 00:45:18,516
Speaker 1: want to go back to the album version and it'll

857
00:45:18,556 --> 00:45:21,316
Speaker 1: feel new again. And then it feels new again. Yeah.

858
00:45:22,636 --> 00:45:26,636
Speaker 1: So the last three projects you've put out were instrumental only.

859
00:45:27,116 --> 00:45:29,436
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah, I did. I mean, I know I

860
00:45:29,556 --> 00:45:33,196
Speaker 1: consider those like mixtapes or something, Okay, but did they

861
00:45:33,396 --> 00:45:36,036
Speaker 1: tell me how did that happen? Those are the things

862
00:45:36,076 --> 00:45:37,916
Speaker 1: I was making on Twitch So I was just making

863
00:45:38,036 --> 00:45:40,676
Speaker 1: like all like for nine months last year, I was

864
00:45:40,716 --> 00:45:44,236
Speaker 1: just making instrumentals. So I generated over one hundred songs.

865
00:45:44,276 --> 00:45:48,756
Speaker 1: I made a ton of songs, and some of them

866
00:45:48,836 --> 00:45:51,476
Speaker 1: got released. I put some of them together in this

867
00:45:52,236 --> 00:45:55,596
Speaker 1: like trilogy called Dropped Frames, which is a reference to

868
00:45:55,716 --> 00:45:58,276
Speaker 1: like basically having bad Internet and not being able to

869
00:45:58,316 --> 00:46:00,716
Speaker 1: stream properly, which was the case and when I was

870
00:46:00,756 --> 00:46:04,676
Speaker 1: first streaming and I put some of those out, and

871
00:46:05,196 --> 00:46:07,876
Speaker 1: like part of me was like, I know that those

872
00:46:07,956 --> 00:46:11,116
Speaker 1: types of releases are some all they're not for everybody.

873
00:46:11,556 --> 00:46:15,516
Speaker 1: I also love I've always loved like Dyla and DJ

874
00:46:15,676 --> 00:46:19,556
Speaker 1: Shadow and like so many fine lotus, like so many

875
00:46:19,956 --> 00:46:24,396
Speaker 1: producers who when you listen to their tracks it's almost

876
00:46:24,436 --> 00:46:28,356
Speaker 1: like they can hold my attention with no vocal yeah,

877
00:46:28,716 --> 00:46:31,516
Speaker 1: you know, because it's it's just they're creative enough without it.

878
00:46:31,596 --> 00:46:35,836
Speaker 1: And so I felt like encouraged in a way by

879
00:46:35,956 --> 00:46:37,596
Speaker 1: listening to some of that stuff to be like, oh

880
00:46:37,636 --> 00:46:40,316
Speaker 1: it was you know, it's with COVID and everything, Like

881
00:46:40,956 --> 00:46:42,956
Speaker 1: I feel like, actually, it wasn't just COVID. It was

882
00:46:43,156 --> 00:46:46,276
Speaker 1: it was like with Trump and COVID and all of

883
00:46:46,356 --> 00:46:50,236
Speaker 1: the noise on social media. I felt like everyone's always screaming,

884
00:46:51,036 --> 00:46:52,996
Speaker 1: So it's nice to listen to music with no words.

885
00:46:53,676 --> 00:46:56,796
Speaker 1: There's a break, Yeah, really cool And it's funny when

886
00:46:56,796 --> 00:47:00,796
Speaker 1: I would listen to them. I would hear like baby

887
00:47:00,916 --> 00:47:03,276
Speaker 1: Lincoln Park songs, you know, like often like I could

888
00:47:03,356 --> 00:47:05,236
Speaker 1: hear it's like, oh, I if this was going to

889
00:47:05,316 --> 00:47:07,196
Speaker 1: be a Lincoln Park song, I know where this would go.

890
00:47:07,436 --> 00:47:10,636
Speaker 1: Like it wouldn't be so different than the seed ideas

891
00:47:10,716 --> 00:47:15,076
Speaker 1: that would start that would often start songs. Yeah, that's

892
00:47:15,196 --> 00:47:17,836
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's I think that's the for people

893
00:47:17,956 --> 00:47:22,236
Speaker 1: that make music, or it's aspire to make music they love.

894
00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:25,596
Speaker 1: There's a lot of folks in my who watched that channel,

895
00:47:25,796 --> 00:47:28,916
Speaker 1: my channel, who are in that category. A track like that,

896
00:47:29,476 --> 00:47:31,236
Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago, that would be like two

897
00:47:31,316 --> 00:47:33,516
Speaker 1: days of work, and these days it's like ninety minutes

898
00:47:33,516 --> 00:47:36,116
Speaker 1: of work. Right, I just get there. I get there

899
00:47:36,236 --> 00:47:40,676
Speaker 1: very fast now. And it's because of the repetition. And

900
00:47:40,756 --> 00:47:43,476
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's like like my my worry. Actually

901
00:47:43,516 --> 00:47:46,156
Speaker 1: sometimes I worry because there are some little I don't

902
00:47:46,196 --> 00:47:48,796
Speaker 1: expect everything to be great. I don't expect everything to

903
00:47:48,876 --> 00:47:52,276
Speaker 1: even be good, but I do know I do guess

904
00:47:52,516 --> 00:47:56,476
Speaker 1: that just because of the the volume, that there's actually

905
00:47:56,516 --> 00:47:59,276
Speaker 1: gems in there. And it's like am I throwing away

906
00:47:59,316 --> 00:48:02,236
Speaker 1: these gems? Like one of these little pieces of a

907
00:48:02,396 --> 00:48:06,436
Speaker 1: thing could actually be like a very like big song. Yes,

908
00:48:06,756 --> 00:48:09,516
Speaker 1: is it worth it to like just throw them out

909
00:48:09,516 --> 00:48:11,476
Speaker 1: there on twitch and do it in live and then

910
00:48:11,916 --> 00:48:14,596
Speaker 1: maybe not even release it? Like is that? Is that

911
00:48:14,676 --> 00:48:16,796
Speaker 1: a dumb thing to be doing? And at the end

912
00:48:16,836 --> 00:48:21,556
Speaker 1: of the day, I feel like that's where modern culture is.

913
00:48:22,436 --> 00:48:26,116
Speaker 1: Like that to me, that's that's right on the edge

914
00:48:26,156 --> 00:48:28,996
Speaker 1: of like where we're at in terms of like like

915
00:48:29,356 --> 00:48:33,116
Speaker 1: entertainment and music. Like music is not music. Music doesn't

916
00:48:33,756 --> 00:48:36,796
Speaker 1: mean what it used to mean back in the day.

917
00:48:36,836 --> 00:48:38,476
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that in terms of value. I

918
00:48:38,556 --> 00:48:41,276
Speaker 1: just mean that in terms of identity. It doesn't it

919
00:48:41,396 --> 00:48:47,076
Speaker 1: does to a thirteen year old. A song generally is

920
00:48:47,196 --> 00:48:50,076
Speaker 1: just like a little piece of background thing that you

921
00:48:50,156 --> 00:48:53,796
Speaker 1: associate with a moment, and that moment is short. Once

922
00:48:53,916 --> 00:48:56,516
Speaker 1: in a while, it kind of goes back to that

923
00:48:56,556 --> 00:48:59,076
Speaker 1: you remember that long tail, the book The long Tail.

924
00:48:59,316 --> 00:49:01,956
Speaker 1: It's kind of like that, Like once in a while,

925
00:49:02,276 --> 00:49:04,916
Speaker 1: something will go up the rise up to the to

926
00:49:05,036 --> 00:49:08,396
Speaker 1: the front of that long tail and become like, I mean,

927
00:49:08,436 --> 00:49:10,316
Speaker 1: we're looking at it with right right now, there's a

928
00:49:10,436 --> 00:49:13,436
Speaker 1: song that song is it Driver's License? Am I gonna

929
00:49:13,436 --> 00:49:16,916
Speaker 1: screw up the name? Huge song? Number one? On at

930
00:49:16,996 --> 00:49:20,436
Speaker 1: least the US charts for three weeks, and the first

931
00:49:20,476 --> 00:49:22,076
Speaker 1: time I heard it, I listened to it twice. I

932
00:49:22,196 --> 00:49:23,796
Speaker 1: was like, what the fuck did I just listen to?

933
00:49:23,916 --> 00:49:26,916
Speaker 1: That's incredible? I love this and it takes that It's

934
00:49:26,916 --> 00:49:29,116
Speaker 1: almost like a Yeah, it takes that level of a song.

935
00:49:29,396 --> 00:49:32,916
Speaker 1: That's how it's got to be that special, and everything

936
00:49:32,956 --> 00:49:37,756
Speaker 1: else is just way lower on the on the long tail. Yeah, yeah,

937
00:49:37,876 --> 00:49:41,316
Speaker 1: it feels like that too. With you know, when you

938
00:49:41,396 --> 00:49:44,796
Speaker 1: put out Hybrid Theory, you probably put out how many

939
00:49:44,836 --> 00:49:50,556
Speaker 1: singles did it have? Do you remember? Oh god, five? Yeah,

940
00:49:51,276 --> 00:49:54,996
Speaker 1: arguably five, Chester would say six, five or six and

941
00:49:55,436 --> 00:49:58,196
Speaker 1: that was over a two year period till the next album,

942
00:49:58,276 --> 00:50:01,876
Speaker 1: would you say more three something like that? Yeah, eighteen

943
00:50:02,076 --> 00:50:06,596
Speaker 1: eighteen plus over eighteen months. And in today's world nothing

944
00:50:06,676 --> 00:50:10,196
Speaker 1: exists like that. There's no such thing. Whatever. Whatever the

945
00:50:10,356 --> 00:50:15,236
Speaker 1: biggest record in the world is comes and the super

946
00:50:15,316 --> 00:50:19,196
Speaker 1: fans of that record a month later are probably over it.

947
00:50:19,716 --> 00:50:23,596
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, it's just like the rhythm, the rhythm

948
00:50:23,716 --> 00:50:28,316
Speaker 1: has changed. Yeah, they burn really really bright and really fast. Yes,

949
00:50:28,476 --> 00:50:33,396
Speaker 1: And that being said, you could put out something on

950
00:50:33,596 --> 00:50:39,716
Speaker 1: Twitch that's that in its use feels disposable, but you

951
00:50:39,876 --> 00:50:42,596
Speaker 1: did write it, and it does exist, and you could

952
00:50:42,756 --> 00:50:45,076
Speaker 1: take one of those and turn it into a giant

953
00:50:45,156 --> 00:50:47,556
Speaker 1: song at some point if you wanted to. It's like that,

954
00:50:47,916 --> 00:50:51,396
Speaker 1: the beauty is now. It's like they're not gone. Yeah.

955
00:50:51,436 --> 00:50:53,436
Speaker 1: I think the reason one of the one of the

956
00:50:53,596 --> 00:50:58,916
Speaker 1: reasons I switched to the idea of working these songs

957
00:50:59,116 --> 00:51:02,756
Speaker 1: off of like to include the fan vocalists and the

958
00:51:02,916 --> 00:51:06,116
Speaker 1: and the aspiring vocalist is because all of them, I mean,

959
00:51:06,156 --> 00:51:09,356
Speaker 1: they literally have a thousand followers on their biggest social platform, right,

960
00:51:09,436 --> 00:51:13,636
Speaker 1: most of them are very comparatively very small, and so

961
00:51:14,516 --> 00:51:17,316
Speaker 1: doing it this way, then I get to deal in volume.

962
00:51:17,876 --> 00:51:21,116
Speaker 1: I can finish five songs in two weeks. Yes, give

963
00:51:21,156 --> 00:51:24,476
Speaker 1: those to the artists. That's the that's their best ticket

964
00:51:24,636 --> 00:51:27,476
Speaker 1: so far of having a shot to get on playlist

965
00:51:27,516 --> 00:51:28,956
Speaker 1: and get in front of more fans. And they're going

966
00:51:29,036 --> 00:51:31,036
Speaker 1: to work really hard to get there with it. It

967
00:51:31,116 --> 00:51:34,916
Speaker 1: has my name attached. So that's that helps them, right,

968
00:51:35,156 --> 00:51:38,076
Speaker 1: hopefully with some people, it helps them. With other people,

969
00:51:38,076 --> 00:51:41,676
Speaker 1: it hurts them. Hopefully it helps yes, And then your

970
00:51:41,716 --> 00:51:45,156
Speaker 1: intentions are good and I get to explore every genre.

971
00:51:45,316 --> 00:51:48,636
Speaker 1: I feel like exploring every type of song. Today's today

972
00:51:48,756 --> 00:51:50,556
Speaker 1: is a rap song, tomorrow's a metal song. The next

973
00:51:50,636 --> 00:51:54,116
Speaker 1: day we're doing a female vocalist, no drums, like it's

974
00:51:54,996 --> 00:51:58,156
Speaker 1: every day. It can be something completely different, super fun,

975
00:51:58,436 --> 00:52:02,196
Speaker 1: great experience. It's fun cool. I love seeing you. I

976
00:52:02,356 --> 00:52:05,476
Speaker 1: miss you you too. Man. All right, Rick, Thanks Man,

977
00:52:05,636 --> 00:52:10,836
Speaker 1: great to talk to you. Thanks to Mike Shinoda for

978
00:52:10,916 --> 00:52:13,556
Speaker 1: taking time away from making beats to talk to Rick.

979
00:52:13,916 --> 00:52:15,956
Speaker 1: Do you hear a playlist of our favorite Mike Shinoda

980
00:52:16,076 --> 00:52:18,676
Speaker 1: and Lincoln Park songs. Check out a playlist we created

981
00:52:18,836 --> 00:52:22,276
Speaker 1: at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe

982
00:52:22,316 --> 00:52:24,996
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken

983
00:52:25,076 --> 00:52:27,796
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where you can find extended cuts at new

984
00:52:27,876 --> 00:52:30,916
Speaker 1: and all episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at

985
00:52:30,996 --> 00:52:34,556
Speaker 1: broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from Leah Rose,

986
00:52:34,876 --> 00:52:40,276
Speaker 1: Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with

987
00:52:40,476 --> 00:52:44,436
Speaker 1: engineering help from Nick Chafee. Our executive producer is Mia LaBelle.

988
00:52:44,876 --> 00:52:47,316
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushing Industries and if

989
00:52:47,356 --> 00:52:49,596
Speaker 1: you'd like the show, please remember to share, rate, and

990
00:52:49,716 --> 00:52:53,036
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast at right. Music by Kenny Beats,

991
00:52:53,236 --> 00:52:54,716
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond Bass