WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 194 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.120 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.880 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.479 Hello, and welcome to It could happen here. I'm Andrew 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.360 Siege as soon as andreism on YouTube, and I'm here 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.400 with me. It's James, And honestly I shouldn't see welcome 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.680 to it could happen. Yeah, I shouldlready see welcome to 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.320 it is happening here, because I mean, just just a 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.720 second with you, James, how are you doing. You're safe? 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.920 I'm okay, Yeah, I'm safe. Right now. We are living 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.640 through wild times in the United States. Every day is 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:56.760 a new hell. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.200 Indeed, indeed, and although I'm not in the US, the 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.160 flames of that hell definitely lack the rest of the 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:04.840 world in weis big and small. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.360 Yeah, they definitely do. I was just talking to people 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:11.800 in Syria yesterday and like the alavis Ala white whenever 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.119 you want to call a levees, so if you want 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:18.200 to say it, are facing quite substantial persecution currently, and 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.080 like one of the larger refugee accepting countries in the 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.440 world just isn't doing that anymore unless you're a white 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.199 South African of course, and like that has these massive 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.840 trickle down effects for everywhere. It's just one example of 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.920 how America so goes, the US so goes the world. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:34.160 You know. 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:38.160 Indeed, indeed, and not just in Syria, are the flames 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.080 of conflict tearing up with the part I think most 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.520 people I now know what the situation in Palestine, the 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.320 way that Israel was carrying on to genocide there. You know, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.600 the Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the civil war in Myanmar, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.960 in Sudan, the you know, struggle between India and Pakistan 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.200 over Kashmir and the kashmir people who are you know, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.840 left on the on the wayside. You know, the Tamil 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.280 genocide yep, taking place some in Sri Lanka. I mean, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.240 there's so many things happening across the world right now, 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.720 it's really difficult to keep up. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.119 Yeah, the friends in me Emma would prefer the framing 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.320 of revolution to civil war. They're pretty explicit about that. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.440 Okay, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, I should 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.040 be using that that terminology. 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:31.919 Yeah, it's not it's not appropriate everywhere. But in their case, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:33.799 there has been a civil war since forty eight, and 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.079 it's a substantial change with the twenty twenty one revolution. 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.560 Right right, right, right, Yeah, thank you for that correction. 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:41.720 Yeah, yeah, of course. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.639 I think now is a really good time to have 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:51.440 a general, almost strategic discussion on anti war struggle, and 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:52.880 so today I really want to look at how we 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.560 can come to the propaganda around war, the actions that 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.079 are possible to take against militarism at home, and we 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:05.360 could build solidarity across oceans and borders. So to understand 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.959 how to actuate against war, we first need to agitate 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:12.400 against militarism. And those who don't know, militarism is the 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.120 belief or policy that the nation should maintain a strong 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.160 military and be prepare to use it aggressively to defend 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.480 or promote its interests. It often involves glorifying military virtues 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.280 and ideals, and prioritizing military strength and readiness above other 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.680 aspects of society such a basic Google definition. My copy 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.320 of the Anarchist Encyclopedia is the English version, which is aberged, sadly, 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.320 but the original French has the full unabridged Anarchist Encyclopedia. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.480 So with a bit of shaky online translation magic and 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.960 managed to pull its definition of militarism as well. Miltarism 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.119 is a system that consists of having and maintaining military personnel. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.080 It's essential and avoult goal is a preparation for war. 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.560 The recruitment of a standing army in the organization of 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.520 the cageris of reserve army. The accumulation that put it 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.840 in place turn into the state of service of ever 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.720 more modern, more perfected war material. In short, is the 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:10.680 preliminary organization of war. All are the implications of that, well, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.800 all over the world, I think we can see, you know, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:19.480 the consequences of statism, the might makes right, pursuit of conquest, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.520 the fighting wars abroad or at home, for the strategic interests, 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.680 ideological commitments, resource claims, whatever the case may be. The 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.080 rivalries within the ruling class, and how that pleas out, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.599 and how it's that that blows back on all of 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.520 our faces. You know, the profits the military industrial complex 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:42.000 which keeps this whole system chuning on, you know, the 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:47.800 blood of innocence. Of course, the longstanding consequences and continued 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.400 work of colonialism. And of course the way is that 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.839 militarism gets turned inward with this suppression of strikes, of activism, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:05:00.800 of popular unrest. When the now militarized police aren't enough, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.720 they often bring in the military itself and reports. With militarism, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.159 we also have the narrative component, you know, the building 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:16.360 of patriotism that so plans the seed of fascism. States 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.800 can survive without militaries. It is true the state typically 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:27.320 depends upon some effort or some attempt at monopoly on 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.240 the legitimate use of violence within the territory by some definitions. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.720 But the states which do not have militaries often can 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.239 do so because they've outsourced the military functions to another state, 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.000 and or because they have other systems in place to 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.520 control descent, to develop a certain degree of social condition 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.200 and pacify the population. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:52.560 I'm just trying to think of states that are militaries 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.560 like in my experience, I guess you have like the 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.599 Panama right doesn't have a military, it has the Center Front, 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.320 which are like the frontier Protection I guess, but essentially 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.279 like a militarized border patrol. And they do have marines 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:06.719 and stuff as well, I guess, so they kind of 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.359 do have a military, but it's a kind of a 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.120 renaming exercise more than anything. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.359 Indeed, the same thing of having a militarized police, but 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.040 it's not a military technically. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:15.560 Yeah. 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:17.840 Well, having a militarized coast guard and it's not a 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:19.240 military technically, you know. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:19.840 Yeah. 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.120 Yeah. You have the countries like the Republic the Marshall Islands, 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:28.040 which just outsources its militarization to the United States, right 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.000 like the US. Well, I think that is a distinct thing. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.440 The people in the Marshall Islands have seen the horrors 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:39.280 of war very closely and also the danger of militarization, 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.400 right like, the United States nuked the Marshall Islands, a 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.560 country with which it had no quarrel, with which it 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.120 was not at war, just to practice in case it 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:49.840 needed to in Nuk, a country with which it did 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.560 have a quarrel. I guess the legacy of that is 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.440 very obvious and continues to this day there. But if 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.479 marshal Ly's people wish to join a military. They can 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.560 join the US military, and the US guarantees the security 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.919 and theory that it's it's yeah, it is again distinctly. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.080 For instance, if you join the US military in the 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.760 Marshall Islands wish to access your veterans benefits, the easiest 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.120 way to do so is to take a five hour 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.240 flight to Hawaii. Like, like, they don't have any any 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.560 any benefits for victual veterans there. So I guess in 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.560 that case, like maybe it does give people a different 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.520 relationship to like state violence. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:27.040 Yeah, it's I mean, obviously different places to have different 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.280 histories as to how they came to those arrangements. But 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:35.840 you definitely see our relationship between colonialism and the outsourcing 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.360 of military functions. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:38.960 Yeah, definitely. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:46.440 Now, historically anarchists have been anti militarists. The encyclopedias call 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:51.080 this aspect of the anarchist struggle, the aim to disqualifying militarism, 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.280 to denounce it's terrible and painful consequences, to combat the 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.640 warlike and barracks for distigmatize and dishonor war to a 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.440 ball the regime of the armies, so abolish and militarism 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:10.480 looks like material relief from the oppression military violence, the 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:16.800 redirection of resources that go toward military toward instead things 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.280 that actually benefit the lives of everyday people, you know, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.000 the reduction of pain and suffering throughout the world, the 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.960 abolition of borders which so often are the motivating force 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:33.280 behind military exercise. And while no anarchist to deny that 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.120 armed struggle is necessary for defense, it's not the same 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.800 as having an imperialistic or hierarchical ambition toward you know, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.480 power over towards dominating populations of people. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.319 Yeah, this reminds me of the discussion that happened in 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.959 the CNT and Spain in the nineteen thirties previous to 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.840 the Civil War. Even before that, right where they there 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.679 was a very profound, an obvious discussion on like how 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.920 to defend their evolution, how to defend communities whilst maintaining 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:11.679 anti militarism. And that's why we didn't see like there 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:18.120 was not a like standing army beyond you had affinity groups, right, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.760 and then you had like defense committees of six six 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.840 to eight people, and those people like took on the 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:29.160 role of organizing for a potential violent like in order 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.080 to defend the community right, like to use violence to 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.439 defend the community against violence. But even as it became 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.679 clearer and clearer that Spain was like spiraling towards conflict, 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.720 they resisted the idea of establishing and I think more 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:42.840 militarized than that. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:44.960 Yeah, and I think so core. It's been a really 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.120 good place to look at for really some experiments or efforts, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.920 so ideas would have played out, strategies would have played out, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.160 and I think it's really important to take those experiments 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.280 and see how we can iterate on them. Yeah, and 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.160 build upon them, because I mean what I've always admired 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.280 that we've carried on this anti militarist torch. It's very 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:11.840 important to remember the landscape has changed from war times past. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.200 You know, we're not in World War times anymore. You know, 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:20.120 the strategies and the discussions and the approaches that may 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.240 have worked back then, it doesn't work this in the 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.679 same way now. You don't even have to declare war 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.680 officially anymore. In this day and age. You can just 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.720 say that, oh, you're doing a special military operation, or 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.200 you can just send billions of dollars of aid to 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:41.320 a country that you want to support, and even troops 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.560 to the countries want to support, and technically you have 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.319 un declared warrior. Yeah, and you know, not only that, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:54.480 you also get to unleash generational trauma and poison upon 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.240 generations of people. But it's okay because you're going after 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:01.000 some terrorists. You know, you just get to push money 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.040 and supplies towards this camp or that and whether the 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.600 US is concerned and at least used to have to 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:13.320 seek congressional approval, but as we see, that's not really 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.920 a thing now, especially post nine eleven. You know, back 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.800 in the day, people thought putting pressure on the elected 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.400 officials through protests probably enough, and you know there's the 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:24.959 b to be had to the extent to which that 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.160 worked for situations like the Vietnam War. But as we've 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.880 seen with this song and Dance again and again and again, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.240 the protests are not hitting like they used to. You know, 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.800 the response to the protest has been so it's routine 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.280 at this point. You know, you just send the police 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.840 to bash the heads in or bet to get the military, 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.000 because the movers and the shakers on the people who 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.240 can actually be reached with these protests, you know, and 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.400 no matter how peaceful we proclaim our protests to be 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.840 we're talking about moneyed interests here. You know, a military 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.600 industrial complex that has to have lyne go up, you 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.920 know who, Yeah, doesn't have to give a down about 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.120 some people walking on the road. You know, the system 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.000 has grown since the nineteen tens, the nineteen fourteen years. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.000 It has grown in such size and complexity to the 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.480 point where you know, you don't have to care necessarily 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.199 about a single movement part about a single action of protests. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.000 Yeah, and the two kind of combine. And like what 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:25.920 we're seeing in the United Kingdom right now, right like 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:31.120 there's the complete dismissal of protests and this like I'm 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.719 thinking a better word than imprecise, but like the vagueness 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.920 of the definition of terrorism has allowed the government of 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.480 the United Kingdom, in combination with the absence of a 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.040 Bill of Rights in the United Kingdom, right to just 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.120 be like, oh, Palestine Action and terrorists like you are 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.800 the same as the Islamic State, because Palestine Action undertook 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.920 it in non violent direct action. Right, But it's ludicrous 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.079 to suggest that that that was terrorism and that it 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.319 doesn't mean any reasonable definition of the term. But yet, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.400 where we were in a stage now where governments can 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:07.400 declare anyone the enemy without any particular oversight, and that's 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.440 the logical conclusion of two decades of this. 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.240 Yeah, I mean to an extent, that has always been 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.240 the case. I think what's different now is that they're 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.680 not even really attempting to hide behind any sort of 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:23.520 consistent principles or consistent standards, you know, because even back 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.079 back then, you know, the nartists are being called terrorists 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.320 and being m m true, you know, chastised for that. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:35.160 Yeah, I guess also, like our class system is more 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.320 entrenched than it ever has been in a sense, I'm 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:43.000 just thinking, like, wars are not fought by the mass 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.960 of middle class, and like the people who become senators 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:48.760 for the most part, right, I mean, in the US 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.839 and downs, senators will have done military service. It can 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.440 sort of boost their career opportunities. I get that, But 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.560 like it is not for the most part, the sons 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.199 of the of the people who who start the wars 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:02.240 who die in the wars. 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.199 Right, it's indeed people of. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.240 A different class in a way that even in a 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.040 distinct way from the era of the World wars. Right, 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.400 when when large numbers of people of the middle class, 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.440 especially maybe not the very privileged people that like did 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.640 die in those wars. And I think like the memory 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.600 of the First World War probably did have some impact 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.400 on like the reticence of some politicians to dive into 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:32.000 the second one. But we don't really have that now. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:47.360 Indeed, so we criticize this particular approach of the protest, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.120 and I know that the inavertable question is, so what 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.960 can we even do at this point? And you know, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.720 this is why I consider it very important to take 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.560 a step back and look at what is actually keeping 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.880 the system going right, and what's keeping the system going 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.600 is and has always been labor right. Not to say 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.120 that labor and labor struggles to be all and and 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.040 all of our politics, but it is to say that 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:19.520 if we want to make a significant impact, that is 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.920 what we have the greatest control over our labor. And 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.400 so when I talk about things we can do to 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.680 affect change, I always had to take it back to 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.640 the ongoing process of social revolution. The things you do 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.560 to oppose and the things you do to propose, you know, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.240 on the opposing side of things, that includes counter messaging. 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.520 You know, even though we may not have the resources 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:47.280 of mainstream media or government communications, We have weight of mouth, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.280 we have trust between ourselves, and we have alternative media 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.240 that can be, especially in this day and age, just 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:58.200 as powerful if sparked right, especially considering the fact that 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:04.000 the general center and the populist sentiment has, whether coming 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.920 from a leftist direction or a right dist direction, the 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:12.240 general sentiment has been moving toward anti establishment poll of sics. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:18.480 The anti establishment sort of momentum is what's growing right now, 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.080 and the issue of course being that sometimes that anti 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.600 establishment momentum can be hijacked, such as what Trump did, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.320 you know, to get himself elected the first time he 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:32.800 rode that wave and you know, this whole Epstein situation, 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:38.480 we may see that foundation of his base potentially crumbling 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.280 apart a bit. But we have to look at what 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.760 is actually motivating people right now and how they can 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.280 be reached. An alternative media with an anti establishment mess 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.800 message is I think one of the better ways to 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.640 do so, you know, wherever you see it. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:56.640 He needs to be out. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.120 There, you know, on social media or through a the 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.960 avenue is calling out the ridiculous Cassius bellues used to 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.960 manufacture consent for war. You know, to be wary of 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.000 potential forced flags can be used as a justification for 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:18.040 military action to consistently poke holes in the narratives that 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:23.040 have allowed you know, nationalists and and xenophobic sentiments to 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.600 become the force that they have become today, and of 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.120 course even engaged in that message, and of course ty 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.440 not to let campus infect your counter message in either. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.320 You know, that's how you get people who are you know, 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.719 they gung, who are about a free Palestine, and then they 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.080 start when they ask them about Ukraine, all of a sudden, 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.399 it's actually really complicated. It's actually the fault of the 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.919 US and the EU and na too, and not Russia, 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.000 even though Russia is the one who actually invaded and 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:56.240 is actively killing people in distrial infrastructure as we speak, right. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.560 I Mean, there's conversation to be had about the US 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.880 and EU and about NATO obviously, but it's very. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.000 Clear, Yeah, it's very uncomplicated who's. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.440 Actually killing people right now? 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.520 You know, Yeah, there is one country which is taking 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.040 children right and trying to like re educate them give 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:20.960 them to families in Russia, which is committing murders of civilians. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:25.360 Like we don't have to like resort to like ten 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.600 year geopolitical trajectories to say that it's wrong and it 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.480 should be opposed exactly exactly. 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.800 And also I want to make this point about counter 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.000 messaging because it's a consistent gripe I've had, In fact, 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.040 one of the main reasons I started my channel in 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.480 the first place. With your comment message in whether it's 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.280 in person or on the internet or wherever, does stay 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.560 perpetually on the back foot, you know, the words don't 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.840 just counter message? Yeah, you know, right now, And it's 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.840 what irritates me so much. The right wing sets the conversation. Yeah, 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.120 you know, you have people they say, oh, we want 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.560 to talk about critical race theory, and then everybody's talking 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.840 about critical race theory because they talk to or they 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.160 want to target trans people, and all of a sudden, 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.320 we have to scrabble to respond to all their erroneous 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.439 and ridiculous claims about trans people. That comets messages is important, 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:23.040 is important, but it cannot be all that we do, right, Yeah, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.280 and this is a bit how to let feel. But 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.879 you know, of course I'm not the one who is 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:32.720 partialty liketoral approaches. But you can see some of that 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:39.159 not just counter message in but also actively messaging taking 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.840 place with Zora Mum. Danny's strategy, you know, when you 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.359 look at how he speaks, how he addresses some of 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.400 the badly the arguments are made against him. His rhetorical 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.639 strength and popularity in part lies on his refusal to 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.919 carry on the conversation on the enemies too, you know, 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.760 so they will go at him for something and he's 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.280 going to spit it right back around owned to talking 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.520 about the things that it's just really matter to people 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.280 to set the conversations to get people to respond to that, 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.359 because all other response is toward him have been trying 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.080 to distract from his actual messaging and his ability to 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.760 steal on message as something I find really admirable, despite 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.399 you know, my concerns about the investment of energy and 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:23.720 electoral strategies. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.400 Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, there are certain things we can 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.520 admire about these people if we don't agree with everything. 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:33.080 And I do think like in that sense, something I 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.760 think about a lot with like messaging and countermessaging, especially 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:41.520 around war. It's like I spent some time in the 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:46.479 Anes and what people call Java, and like one of 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.600 the framings that I've consistently seen and it's mostly in 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.760 like the lib leaning mass media, I guess is that 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.280 people went to Rejaba to fight against IS or Dash 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.680 or Isis, whatever you want to call it, right, and 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:05.840 like in doing so, that is how the revolutionary Jarba 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:07.800 is not understood by most people, right, and they have 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.720 taken the power away from it in their framing of it, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:15.240 because people didn't just go. Some people did go. Justify 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.840 I s right that there. They went because they saw 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.959 what I was doing. They understood its inhumane and they 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.720 wanted that to stop, and that's admirable. But people also 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.840 went because they saw what people were building in Rajava 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:28.720 and they thought that was beautiful and they wanted to 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:34.160 defend it, and that's admirable too. And sometimes the messaging 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.760 around specifically ra Java, Mi and Mar to an extent 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.199 right there international volunteers there too, and of course that 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.480 like folks from the Amma who have picked up weapons 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.040 who never thought they would, and they didn't just do 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.159 it to oppose the Hunter. They did it because like 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.840 in there, despite all the horrible things about war then 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.960 and like it should be avoided at all costs. In 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.080 the conflict, they have built liberated spaces and they've experienced freedom, 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:04.919 they have experienced how that feels and they've built a 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:09.320 revolution that is beautiful in spite of the war, not 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.760 not because of it, and they want to defend that. 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:14.879 And I think that's a messaging that we should we 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:19.800 should consider, right, like, because the messaging that everything has 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:25.280 to be against something bad always sort of it presupposes 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:27.520 that that they can't have been something good, and in 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.240 some cases there has been something good, and like, we 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:35.680 won't fully understand what was happening there unless we understand that. 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.880 And I think we should push back on that messaging 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.720 what we see it, especially in the great legacy media. 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:46.119 Absolutely absolutely, and that really connects to the you know, 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.680 the other aspect of the social revolution paradigm, because it's 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.080 not just about a pousion and so it's proposing that 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.320 that's something different. Yeah, and that is often far more 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.720 energizing than simply talking everything that's wrong with the world. 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:04.639 Yeah, definitely. 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.159 And I think also for those who maybe have concerns 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:15.040 about the risks of oppositional messaging, there's another area where 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.720 you can direct your energy to support the opposition without 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.560 necessarily actively being involved in it, you know, because it's 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.639 not enough to just oppose the system. You have to 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:26.239 build something else, and you could be part of that 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.439 building something else. You know, swim a message and you 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:31.840 want to be able to redirect people's energies to the 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.320 actual frustrations and interests, you know, to re center the 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:39.280 conflict and the lens on the actual divisions of society, 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:44.159 such as class, to make money interests known. And you know, 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.480 even though it's never been easy to be anti war, 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.280 you know, especially in the center of empire, and in 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:54.600 many ways, technologies today have empowered much greater repression. You know, 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:58.800 in Russia, individual and mass protests are met with severe oppression, 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:02.520 massive finds, sentences, et cetera. In the US you can 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:08.200 face police brutality, censorship, even deportation. And in Israel, well, 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:13.840 I haven't seen or heard anything from the Israeli populus 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.240 in terms of resisting what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. 0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:21.679 But I know that those who do stand against the 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.880 mandatory conscription do face jail time for their refusal. So 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.359 it's not easy to be anti war, especially in militarized 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:35.560 and empire building territories. I get that stress and that worry, 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:38.639 that opposition is still necessary, but there's other things. But 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:40.399 we can we do it than just message it. 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:41.640 Yeah. 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:44.640 You know, there are things that take on less risk, 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:47.960 such as building an alternative, and there are things that 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:53.080 take on more risks. Now protests, even peaceful protests, are 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:56.720 no longer risk free endeaverts. And I know what most 0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:58.760 people hear about, you know, we need to push back. 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.040 They hear, okay, that's all going to as a protest. Honestly, 0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:14.840 we could use a bit more imagination in this day 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:17.040 and age. Like I said, the protest is not hitten 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:20.240 like I used to. It's become like a pressure valve 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.560 or a tool of passification that could be tolerated for 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:25.840 a time and then met with repression the moment it's 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.400 time to wrap it up. And they have a couple 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:32.639 of reasons why protests are not you know, able to 0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:35.600 do as much. You know, they have the moneyed interests. 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:39.280 You know, they can end up being divided according to 0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:43.000 various arguments of a strategy. And I'm sorry to say this, 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:48.440 but protests as of late haven't accomplished very much besides 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:53.320 getting people mutilated or jailed or worse in the past 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:55.399 few years. And in fact, a lot of the resources 0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:58.920 that could be spent you know, building alternatives are being 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:03.399 spent instead on you know, paying people's bonds and getting 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:05.360 people out of jail, prison, relieve that sort of thing. 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.000 Not to say those things are not necessary, you know, 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:11.600 don't leave your comrades to trot and jail. But I 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:15.640 think we need to consider the free data that we've 0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:19.600 basically been giving away to the relaying class in the 0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:23.760 form of pictures, names, addresses, identifying data that they can 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:28.680 be used to repress or dis erupt or infiltrate protesters 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:33.520 and protesting organizations down the line, as James Herod and 0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:38.159 synother James. As James Herod wrote in the Weakness of 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:41.320 our Politics of protest, we have been getting some of 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:46.760 these critiques of protests from He says, thus, instead of 0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:50.600 powerfully concentrate in our mental and physical energies on solving 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:54.439 this problem to eliminate this obstacle to defeating capitalism, we 0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:57.640 are taking to the streets once again, mainly protested, merely 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:02.280 incased in what is basically mindless active end quote. Later, 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.200 he says, it's easy to agree on what to protest against. 0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:07.040 The list of things that need to be stopped on 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:09.560 the capitalism is long, so long, in fact, we don't 0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:12.240 even need to agree, there's plenty to choose from, so 0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.080 just pick something that suits you. Perhaps this is why 0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:18.320 I meant so many activists got involved in protesting. It's 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:20.000 not so easy though, to figure out what we want 0:27:20.040 --> 0:27:23.320 to replace capitalism with, to work out convincing arguments about 0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:25.760 how it will possibly work, and they set about creating 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:28.960 such a social world, especially since so little energy has 0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:33.399 been devoted to the task end quote. And you know, 0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:36.560 I get why protests are popular. You know, as he says, 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:38.679 it has a low barrier to entry. You just have 0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:41.800 to show up. And in a society that has been 0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:45.320 so deliberately atomized, where mass collective action has we made 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:50.240 so difficult, protests has become pretty much a very easy 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.520 avenue to get those things done. Yeah, and you know, 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:57.560 protests can work in Sydney instances for limits any goals. 0:27:57.840 --> 0:28:01.800 But I think that those uses are diminishing dyd in 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:03.240 the cost benefits analysis. 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:07.560 Yeah, I'm just thinking about Like there was a letter 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:09.679 Georgi or wil wrote to one of his readers on 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.520 the subject of anti fascism, where all Well was lamenting 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:17.240 that the anti fascism that he was encountering in England. 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.840 Right in between his participation in the Spanish Civil War 0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:23.560 and the Second World War was always centered on hate, 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:26.119 and like it's sort of an idea. We get the 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.199 two Minutes of Hate later in nineteen eighty four, right, 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:32.080 but maybe it comes from here, And like it never 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:36.280 proposed an alternative. It just said it pointed to something. 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:39.080 It said bad, something I've tried not to do in 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.200 my journalism, right. It is very often we do this 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:43.200 with a journalists too. We point something and say bad, 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:46.840 and we don't look for the ways that it could 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:51.120 become better. And so like protesting could become such an 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:54.280 identity for people like you see it. I'm just thinking 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:59.000 of like every time I get sent a link to Instagram, right, 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:01.160 which is a platform m I don't really participate on, 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:04.720 but I will look at things and they'll be like, oh, 0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:09.600 San Diego protest news, San Diego protester, so cow protester, 0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:12.760 And like, I think we should resist that being an 0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.800 identity because we want to build something beautiful as well 0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:17.680 as oppose what is bad. And if we don't have 0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:22.160 something beautiful to propose, what are we doing out there? 0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:28.280 Exactly exactly? And you know there's room for protests. I 0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:30.720 don't want to give off the impression that there isn't. 0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:31.400 Yeah. 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:34.960 You know, but for all the lovely talk about peaceful protests, 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:38.480 that works when there's an actual threat backing up those protests. 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:41.120 You know, you don't just do the peaceful protest. You know, 0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:46.440 Gandhi didn't single handedly win India's independence by march and peacefully. Yeah, 0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:48.360 you know, there has to be something back, and it's 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:49.920 up or else it's going to be very easy to 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:55.400 ignore and suppress. Yeah, And I think that protests should 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:58.040 not be our default right now. They are our default, 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.000 and I think they are better uses of our collective time, energy, 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:05.440 and resources, even though protests are very easy compared to 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:07.920 some of the things that are more necessary right now. 0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:10.800 You know, but if protest is where your dead set 0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:13.720 on funneling your energy, I would just say that you 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:17.880 should at least learn de arrest strategies. You know, there 0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:21.640 are resources online to get some information on that ond 0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:24.880 arrest strategies. You can look it up. But if it's possible, 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.680 if you see the situation playing out, you know, trying 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.400 not to sit by and let your comrades get pulled away, 0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.600 you know, it is very possible the numbers on your 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:39.360 side to prevent the police from harassment targets and taking 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.400 away people. You know, there's other stuff you can do 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:44.800 as well, besides protests that I keep alluding to, because 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:47.520 you know, sadly the media is no longer you know, 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:53.560 a safe space to share things and depth in some cases. 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:57.880 But just remember the key is actual disruption. You know, 0:30:57.920 --> 0:30:59.640 the media will not be with you, It'll be trying 0:30:59.640 --> 0:31:02.080 to get my factor consent on everything that you do, 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:05.400 manufacturer consent against any action taken on the things that 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.600 you do. And the only way to counteract that is 0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:12.960 to maintain relationships on the ground, to maintain actual local solidarity. 0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:16.719 Because once you have those local relationships and that local solidarity, 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:18.959 there's no amount of things that the media can do 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.240 the media could stir up that can prevent the people 0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:24.760 who see that you're on their side, see that you're 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:28.480 stand up for them, to turn attention right. What problem 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.480 happens is when you don't have any relationships, you don't 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:33.440 have any networks, you don't have any community building, You 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:37.960 just doing stuff. The messaging is unclear. You know, That's 0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:40.640 where I think the media could really pounce on that. 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:43.920 I would also say, you know, sabotage you know, hit 0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:47.440 their pockets. And the main thing, the thing that I've 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:52.240 alluded to earlier, is to strike, you know, to organize 0:31:52.240 --> 0:31:56.800 strikes to use the labor power. Workers power still comes 0:31:56.960 --> 0:32:00.560 from a participation in production and the threat of withdrawing 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:05.160 our participation. We have to realize that in this time 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:09.360 we'll live an in even the effectiveness of strikes have 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:12.760 come on the threat in two ways. The first way 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:17.200 is that the permanence of employment is not what it 0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:21.080 used to be. And with the rise and spread of AI, 0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:23.600 you know, you have to ask yourself how long will 0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:27.960 strike since certain fields be effective anymore. You know, I 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:30.560 have my doubt that EI will ever reach a point 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:33.040 where it can replace people. But honestly, for a lot 0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:36.760 of these companies, they don't necessarily care about whether it's 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:40.280 capable of replacing people or not. They will still try 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:43.800 and use it to replace people. So we have to 0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:47.080 be cognizant of the fact that this is the direction 0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:50.200 they're pushing things in, and we have to be able 0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:53.400 to stand up against that. Before we reach a point 0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:57.760 where between AI and you know, the nature of temporary 0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:00.520 work of the gig economy, it becomes was harder and 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:02.440 harder to organize ourselves. 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:03.320 Yeah. 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:06.120 The other thing that I've noticed that has made strikeing 0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:10.760 so difficult and that we have to be aware of, 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:19.560 is the pacification of the domestication of unions. Right, there 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:24.360 was a time historically where unions were a powerful, influential, 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:30.520 revolutionary even for us such as not the case today unfortunately. Yeah, 0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:33.840 you know, they have some legislation put in place that 0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:38.600 many unions are terrified of crossing. Every I has to 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:41.840 be dotted, every ts to be crossed, and so the 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:45.120 things that would actually make union action the most effective 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:48.160 after the things that unions nowadays will refuse to do, 0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:52.480 sympathy strikes, general strikes, and so, what can we do 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:55.080 if we are in an industry where the union is 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:59.360 collaboration with management, with union is utterly reformist to the 0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:02.840 union review U is to actually step up and represent 0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:06.600 the people supposed to represent it. And this is where 0:34:07.040 --> 0:34:12.080 historically wildcat illegalist strikes have had to come into play. 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:16.800 Strikes that do not depend upon legality, that do not 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:21.359 sit back and wave per mission, that carry far more risk, 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:25.920 of course, that are far more difficult to organize, but 0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:30.600 are going to be necessary if we want to liberate 0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:35.920 ourselves from this constant capitulation toward the machine. In the 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.800 article Striking against the Work War Machine by Jeff Schant 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:44.799 and PJ. Lily, this head quote wartime strikes and sabotage 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:48.480 party because they're illegal and unsanched of nature, bring rank 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:52.440 and file workers together outside of union structures. Workers have 0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:55.360 to make crucial decisions work for this strike directly in 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:58.960 face to face meetings or on the picquet lines. Bureaucrats 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:01.719 who are left to their fundamental role of broken with 0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:05.399 the bosses can be relegated to the sidelines, and such situations. 0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:09.399 In Germany in nineteen seventeen, illegal strikes helped us sweep 0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:13.560 the union structures right out of workplaces. Strikes increasingly took 0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:17.520 on an anti union as well as anti boss character, 0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:22.280 with wildcats occurring in crowing numbers throughout the Armistice and beyond. 0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:25.160 So I wanted to of course pull on this example 0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:29.080 because this is not a unique issue. Right Even historically, 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:34.320 where unions have stood against the struggle of workers, against 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:39.000 WAW or against you know, actually defending the class interests, 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:42.920 the rank and file have had to organize themselves accordingly. 0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:45.919 So that's also something to keep in mind. And last, 0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:47.560 but not least. I just wanted to see to Stroy 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:51.480 briefly on the proposed side of the social revolution equation 0:35:52.120 --> 0:35:55.080 when it comes to anti war struggle, and as usual, 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:58.760 this is going to take solidarity materially, not just saying 0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:01.120 that we stand in sor diarity with such and such 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:04.480 and such, actually share an aid, share a notes, support 0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:08.480 and refugees and going fully there, because this, I think 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:10.080 is where a lot of our energy needs to be 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:13.080 right now. Our efforts to oppose are going to be 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.719 for the most part, to us as long as we 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:18.879 don't have an underlying structure that we are building upon 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:22.520 that we are seken to defend and to Expand you know, 0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:24.719 we are not at a position right now where we 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:28.759 pose much of a threat yet, and we also have 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:34.200 to consider that merely posing a threat is not going 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:38.600 to liberate us by itself. So I wanted to consider, 0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:42.560 as we, you know, wrap up this episode, what you 0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:45.400 can do to put forward out all seriative to actually 0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:48.839 try to create the new social arrangements that we think 0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:54.359 should replace capitalist, statist, militarist order. And this is something 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:56.840 that I talk about on my channel, of course, I 0:36:56.960 --> 0:37:00.399 talk about building the commons, building alternative media, well sense 0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:03.960 of the economy and developing all powers or drives and 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.880 our consciousness and so you can check that out if 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:13.320 you'd like. Unfortunately, this is it is happening here and 0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:15.520 don't forget. You could check out the YouTube, the picture 0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.120 on et cetera. All power to all the people. 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:38.920 Peace, Hello everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. 0:37:39.280 --> 0:37:42.279 My name is Daniel Kurd. I'm a writer, analyst, and 0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:46.240 researcher of Palestinian and air politics. I'm an associate professor 0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:49.040 of political science and a senior nonresident Fellow at the 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:52.880 Arab Center Washington. Today we'll be speaking with Charity, the 0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:56.680 policy lead for Oxfam. Our discussion will cover oxtam's work 0:37:56.800 --> 0:37:59.640 in occupied passing in territories and the current crisis in 0:37:59.760 --> 0:38:04.319 a distribution we are recording end of July July twenty seventh, 0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:08.680 twenty twenty five. NPR reported in May of this year 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:12.480 that Gaza has already reached Phase four of the Integrated 0:38:12.520 --> 0:38:16.680 Food Security phase classification. The IPC just coordinated out of 0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:20.719 the UN Food and Agriculture Organization and an organization called 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.080 the Famine Early Warning Systems Network. 0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:25.080 So what does this all mean? 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.680 Phase four means emergency as NPR rights in there may 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:33.920 report hardships deepen, food gaps widen, and people resort to 0:38:34.000 --> 0:38:37.919 really extreme forms of coping. So the Famine Early Warning 0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:40.759 Systems Network does not have a presence in Gaza at 0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:44.279 the moment. This is their best guess. Phase five is 0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:49.000 when they declare a famine. We're seeing very terrible images 0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:51.920 in the media and on our phone screens about the 0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.439 level of deprivation in Gaza at the moment because aid 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:57.720 has been blocked off by the Israeli government. 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.239 Writing for Al Ja Zero just a few. 0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:04.080 Days ago, former UN official Munzakhrane accuses the UN of 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:08.520 not declaring famine despite overwhelming evidence, because he says officials 0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:11.799 are worried about their careers and possibly worried about antagonizing 0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:14.759 the US. But regardless of whether it's Phase four or 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.279 Phase five, the situation in Gaza is dire. In July 0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:22.279 twenty seventh today, when we're recording, there's reporting that there 0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:25.320 might be air drops, that the trucks on the Egyptian 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:28.880 border are moving towards Gaza, after the Israeli government has 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:32.440 received a lot of pressure over the ongoing aid crisis. 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:36.440 But of course that may be too late for many gazas. 0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:39.719 As I said, we're speaking with Bush today, who will 0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:42.399 talk to us about her work from the vantage point 0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:43.000 of ox Jam. 0:39:43.160 --> 0:39:45.480 Bush, thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for 0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:45.880 having me. 0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:50.000 So let's begin with first describing Oxfam's work and occupied 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:51.080 Palsitate territories. 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:51.759 Yeah. 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:55.279 Sure, we've been here since nineteen fifty six. We have 0:39:55.400 --> 0:40:00.120 offices in Ramala and Jerusalem and Gaza and also was 0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:03.080 originally set up as an organization to fight famine, you know, 0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:06.640 the first kind of famines that we've seen globally. That's 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:09.480 the originally why Alxlam was got to set up. And 0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:12.080 then so a lot of its programming is around water 0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:16.160 and sanitation, food security, lively goods, working with farmers. A 0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:19.080 big part of our program is water and sanitation, helping 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:24.400 for example, farming communities, providing them with irrigation pipelines. You know, 0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:28.840 it could be agricultural inputs needed for growing their crops. 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:32.080 It could be technical support to farmers to support them 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:35.360 and growing, for example, vegetables. How do you grow crops 0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:38.839 of vegetables around date trees? You know, So it's kind 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:41.680 of that kind of work in terms of the food 0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:44.920 security component of that we have a big part of 0:40:44.960 --> 0:40:48.600 our work is with women's organizations, women's cooperatives, women's farming 0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:49.720 cooperatives as well. 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:51.680 Especially in the West Bank. 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:54.520 And then a lot of a lot of work with 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:58.960 kind of the relevant ministries and relevant trade unions on 0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:02.960 for example, agricultural insurance, so getting you know, trying to 0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:07.359 get insurance for farmers in case their crops or are 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:11.160 are ruined or sabotaged or damaged for example by settler violence, 0:41:11.200 --> 0:41:14.239 et cetera. So there's kind of like a piloting kind 0:41:14.280 --> 0:41:18.040 of program where we're looking at the potential of providing 0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:22.160 insurance to the farming sector here and palastline. Other things 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.480 could be could look like, you know, small grants to 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:31.080 start a small kind of business women for example, ceramics, 0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:34.920 women's cooperatives and farming. I mean, so a lot of 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.319 it worked like this, and most of our operations are 0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:41.040 actually run through partners. So we have about ninety partners 0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:45.280 kind of across the OFFI fied filesting territory, and about 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:48.520 eighty to ninety hoard of our operations are actually completely 0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:52.040 implemented through partners. But of course after seventh of October, 0:41:52.680 --> 0:41:56.520 our programming really drastically kind of shifted to fully humanitarian 0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:00.760 where you know, we are now basically providing high eigiene kits, 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:05.680 food parcels, some agricultural inputs as well. Where we could 0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:09.600 you know, set in Gaza, it looks like setting up latrines, 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:13.279 hand washing, state like mobile stations. It can be like 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:16.440 water trucking. I mean, it's it's changed, you know, depending 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:19.080 on the access that we've had. So for example, since 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:22.440 March this year, we've not been able to enter anything 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:26.040 because of Israel's full total siege on Gaza, so nothing 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:30.960 kind of entered. So our operations look like psychosocial support 0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:36.200 to women, young girls and shelters, trucking water from one 0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:39.520 area to another where we've felt like these communities potentially 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:42.440 needed water or had a little access to water. It 0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:44.320 could look it looked like a cash for work. We 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:47.319 do a big, big, big, big part of our both 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:49.840 now in the West Bank and in Gaza is providing 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:53.440 cash for work. So for example, we have daily workers 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:57.440 that will remove solid waste with their bare hands unfortunately 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:01.120 because there's no materials to remove waste in Gaza. But 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:04.400 then they would receive like kind of daily daily rates 0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:07.160 in order to get paid and then there's like cash 0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:10.160 vouchers for the most vulnerable, where they can you know, 0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:13.040 have a voucher in a store and they can you know, 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:16.239 purchase items that we've read for example with the store 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:18.880 owner to that you know, people can purchase with our 0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:20.240 with our kind of cards. 0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:21.799 So it's very. 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:26.080 Versatile, versatile and especially in last years, had to adapt 0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:29.840 and change, you know, very quickly and flexibly depending on 0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:31.680 the situation what's available in the markets. 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:34.120 But that's kind of like what our programming looks like 0:43:34.280 --> 0:43:35.200 across the territory. 0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:37.920 Yeah, thank you for explaining that, and it brings me 0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:39.640 to I mean, you touched on it a little bit, 0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:42.920 but it brings me to a second question that I 0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:46.640 think is important for listeners to to understand is how 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:52.279 has the war in post October seventh really impacted that 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:55.520 the restrictions that the really government is imposing. 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.040 So we know there's a stage in Gaza, but also 0:43:58.160 --> 0:43:58.839 in the West Bank. 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:02.000 Absolutely there is so much happening. How has that impacted 0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:05.120 Oxygen's work. It's completely restricted. 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:07.960 US and not just US, it's all of the international 0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:10.400 kind of sector, including UN agencies. 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:11.920 I mean, we know what they did with in Owa. 0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:13.000 We'll maybe explain that. 0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:16.560 Yeah, I'll all, I mean Israel, the Government of Israel's 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:20.520 kind of attacks or let's say, attacks on the humanitarian 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:24.520 civic space. It's been a long standing policy of THEIRS 0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:29.200 and started well before seventh of October. It's gotten just 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:33.920 you know, much tighter, much more restrictive since. But you know, 0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:36.400 this goes back decades. I would say kind of the 0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:40.720 most notorious development in shrinking space we call it shrinking 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:45.240 space is twenty twenty one when they declare six organizations 0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:50.239 Palestinian civil society organizations mostly are human rights organizations that 0:44:50.320 --> 0:44:53.520 some of the most notorious and well known human rights 0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:57.440 organization where they're designated as terrorists organizations. So that was 0:44:57.520 --> 0:45:01.800 kind of the first big you know where many of 0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:05.719 those partners, those six partners were actually partners of international organizations. 0:45:05.760 --> 0:45:08.880 So you know, we found ourselves kind of advocating for 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:14.800 continuing our support to these six despite the designation by Israel. 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.040 Never you know, and there was never, of course evidence 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:20.640 provided by the Israeli government as to what evidence they had, 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:26.680 why would they deem these organizations terrorist organizations? But you know, 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:31.319 they continued to operate under very very difficult circumstances. Their 0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:35.239 offices were rated, their assets were confiscated, but you know, 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:39.560 they're still operational and we're still certainly supporting them. And 0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:42.719 of course, you know shrinking space or the restrictions on 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:48.080 humanitarian civic space, it translates into, you know, into so 0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:51.680 many different restrictions. It could be you know, restrictions on permits, 0:45:51.880 --> 0:45:54.400 restrictions on what crossings you're able to use as a 0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:57.880 humanitarian you know, whether you can go through that crossing 0:45:58.040 --> 0:45:58.400 or another. 0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:00.600 It can be visa restrictions. 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.160 And we started seeing that these are restrictions even before 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:05.839 the war. And after the war, of course everything kind 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:09.560 of changed and now we're facing and I'm talking more 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:12.759 about like legal restrictions in terms of our work, and 0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:15.080 then I can talk more about like the siege and 0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:20.480 the actual blockade of humanitarian aid in Ta Gaza, which 0:46:20.600 --> 0:46:24.560 is you know, effectively completely restricted in our operations and 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:28.400 has dismantled really the humanitarians sector in its entirety and 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:32.440 has reverberating impacts to the rest of the terrritory. But 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:35.800 for us, I think the first kind of sign of 0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:40.520 turmoil was when there was already a decision but nothing 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:44.600 had been kind of formally communicated of a new registration 0:46:44.760 --> 0:46:49.640 process for international organizations that started already in twenty twenty four, 0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:56.440 where the civil Administration announced to our respective organizations that 0:46:56.520 --> 0:47:00.560 there will be a new registration procedures Israeli Simple Administration, 0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:05.000 Israeli Civil Administration. And so it was only kind of 0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:08.760 ten months later that the criteria was kind of presented 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:11.760 to us, and only a year later that the criteria 0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:15.759 actually came into effect. But in that time where they 0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:19.880 were announcing these new measures, there were lots of visa denials. 0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:23.480 Permits of course, were completely non existent for humanitarians. So 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:25.960 for example, you know, I had a permit to Gaza 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:29.279 for six months, that of course stopped. All of our 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:32.160 staff in the West Bank had permits to travel both 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:35.080 to Gaza and in Israel. Those stopped on the seventh 0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:38.480 of October, and say, and vice versa. Are our colleagues 0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:41.040 in Gaza who had permits to come to Israel to 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:44.160 travel through the Allen b Bridge because of course, you know, 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:46.960 policies don't have an airport, so they have to travel 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:49.120 through ALLENB to travel through Ammen. 0:47:49.640 --> 0:47:50.800 Those also stopped. 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:54.000 So that's one other kind of like you know, measure 0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:58.400 that was taken against international organizations. And then when the 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:02.960 new registered rules were made public and the criteria was 0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:05.480 made public, there was a new there's a new ministry 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:09.080 set up called the Ministry of Dyspora and something Affairs, 0:48:09.440 --> 0:48:12.040 I know, Dyspora Affairs. I forget the full name of 0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:16.840 the ministry, but it's it's an interministerial committee that you know, 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:20.680 it's made of basically thucks. You know, if you look 0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:22.759 at the background of some of these people that are 0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:24.879 in the committee, I mean, you know, it's and they 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:26.319 are now deciding of. 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:28.839 The registration of international organizations. 0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:34.719 And the criteria is onerous, it's political, it's big, and 0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:38.239 you know, even even it crosses some of our red 0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:40.400 lines in terms of organization. 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:42.400 I mean, one of one of the I think the most. 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:46.960 Contentious criteria is submitting staff lists and all of the 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.040 information of our staff to the Israeli authorities, which is 0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:53.120 something we never had to do before. It's not something 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:56.600 that is actually in any other context, It's not abnormal 0:48:56.840 --> 0:49:01.200 for an authority or country or states to ask, you know, 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:04.200 who is your staff working for this organization you're seeking 0:49:04.280 --> 0:49:08.160 registration from. But obviously because of the you know, unrecedented 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:11.239 number of humanitarian workers that have been targeted and indiscriminately 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:14.600 targeted as well. In Gaza, we've got more than four 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:18.440 hundred humanitarian workers killed. At this point, we are unable 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:21.040 to submit our staff lists because of you know, we 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:24.800 have no guarantees of protection. Even though we have guarantees 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:27.720 under protect you know, international law, this is not applied 0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.960 when it comes to Gaza and in Israel's conducts, and 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:34.600 it's in the hostilities against humanitarian workers in humanity in space. 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:37.440 So that's one of the criteria. But there's also other 0:49:37.520 --> 0:49:40.360 criteria where, for example, we would be revoked our registration 0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:44.400 or not re registered if we are seen to support 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:48.120 some of the designated organizations that were designated early on, 0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:52.160 which most of our organizations do. So many of us 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:55.520 are facing about to face basically being deregistered in Israel 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:59.200 and losing our presence in Jerusalem, which is you know, 0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:02.919 has such a big implications, not because you know, we're 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:05.320 so desperate to have presence in Jerusalem, but because it 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:08.480 says a lot about what the future of East Jerusalem means. 0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:12.920 Because you're moving aener wha, you're removing the INGOs, and 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:15.560 you're moving all the program and the support that goes 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:19.880 to organizations that are operating in Jerusalem, providing legal services 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:21.919 to people that are losing their homes, that are getting 0:50:21.920 --> 0:50:24.880 their homes demolished on a daily basis, legal services for 0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:28.720 settler attacks that happen also in East Jerusalem, and school 0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:34.400 provision of school services, educational items, educational activities, summer caps, 0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:37.399 you know, I mean, et cetera, et cetera. The list 0:50:37.480 --> 0:50:40.400 goes on that will be removed. And that's kind of 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:43.239 you know, it's working now in parallel with the annexation 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:47.200 kind of plan that Israel has been threatening and implementing 0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.439 at the same time, so you know, everything is moving 0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:54.399 towards this annexation. It also has fast implications because many 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:57.279 of our organizations operate in areas C because the most 0:50:57.360 --> 0:51:01.560 vulnerable communities you know, are in area and so we always, 0:51:01.680 --> 0:51:03.800 you know, we as part of our programming is obviously 0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:06.960 reaching the most vulnerable Palestinians and those that need to 0:51:07.040 --> 0:51:10.840 help and support the most and so annexing areas CE 0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:14.080 and de registering at the same time de registering us 0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:17.400 from Israel means that we will also have very a 0:51:17.440 --> 0:51:20.759 lot of difficulty assing these communities and accessing areas see 0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:24.160 as we mention here in organizations, we've not had visas 0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:26.440 for international staff for since the. 0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:27.279 Beginning of the war. 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:29.800 And then when you look at you know, Gaza, so 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:31.319 this is kind of like looking at the West Bank 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.239 and what is how it's evolving in the West Bank. 0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:36.400 But then you know the fact that we would be deregistered, 0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:39.080 would effectively need that we cannot operate in Gaza. Need 0:51:39.920 --> 0:51:42.839 because you have to have an Israeli registration in order 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:45.600 to be able to bring goods in inside Gaza. And 0:51:45.719 --> 0:51:48.640 so if you're deregistered, you can't bring in goods into Gaza. 0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:03.400 This tribulation of the humanitarians civic spaces is all encompassing 0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:06.120 in Gaza. Of course, it looks like our materials have 0:52:06.200 --> 0:52:10.520 been systematically and deliberately denied, rejected, delayed, you know, over 0:52:10.600 --> 0:52:12.480 the course of the last twenty months. But of course, 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.160 adding it's worse since March second, when Israel imposed it's 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:19.520 total sea jong Gaza and basically has completely sidelined the 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:22.239 un IGOs and policy in the civil society. And since 0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:24.480 then we've not been able to enter anything in Gaza, 0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:27.160 and I doubt that we will be able to enter 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:31.880 anything moving forward, especially that the registration kind of window 0:52:32.120 --> 0:52:35.080 ends in September. Beginning of September, that's when we'll finally 0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:37.960 know who is going to be registered who's not. But 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:40.960 I expect for an organization like OXBAM, it's part of 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:44.080 the registration process. It's very vague, so we don't know 0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:47.000 how they will apply it. But there's something about basically 0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.160 calling again, you know, calling out or speaking out or 0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:54.879 calling for accountability of individual soldiers and members. 0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:56.800 Of the IDEF. So what that means I don't know. 0:52:56.920 --> 0:52:59.239 But we call for accountability every day because it's part 0:52:59.280 --> 0:53:01.960 of our mandate or not just an operational organization, where 0:53:01.960 --> 0:53:04.360 a rights based organization, and so we have a mandate 0:53:04.440 --> 0:53:07.439 to also you know, where we witness violations of human 0:53:07.520 --> 0:53:10.239 rights or of international law, it is our mandate to 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:13.200 speak out on it. And so there's no operations without that. 0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:17.000 So that's where we're at right now. It's an incredibly 0:53:17.080 --> 0:53:20.600 difficult space. It is of course deliberate. This is a 0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:23.200 deliberate policy of Israel. That is, you know, it's carried 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:27.800 out against the kind of human humanitarians, civic space for years. 0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.560 It's also there's another law, there's a law that's against 0:53:31.719 --> 0:53:34.600 Israel a human rights organization where it will start taxing. 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:37.840 It's really human rights organization that are receiving foreign funding 0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:40.360 by fifty to eighty percent or something like that. So 0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:43.400 it's just it's it's you know, it's deliberate, it's thematic. 0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:47.200 We have been the only ones in Gaza that have 0:53:47.320 --> 0:53:52.040 been able to actually report independently on what's happening in Gaza, 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:55.239 like the humanitarians happen, not even the journalists, because of course, 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:59.360 you know, I can argue that, yes, Palestine journalists are independent, 0:53:59.480 --> 0:54:01.520 but you know, the most of the world would probably 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:05.239 disagree with that. So really, I mean the independent kind 0:54:05.280 --> 0:54:08.799 of eyes and the neutral eyes, or let's say part 0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:12.080 impartial eyes, I won't say neutral happened the humanitarians and 0:54:12.200 --> 0:54:16.800 UN agencies. Sidelining us means that we'll also see a 0:54:16.960 --> 0:54:20.840 reduction of quality reporting on what's actually happening in Gaza. 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:22.160 So it's terrifying. 0:54:22.520 --> 0:54:25.320 It's an attack on our ability to even understand the 0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:28.360 level of the problem. Absolutely that is being left in 0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:30.840 the wake of this war, which of course is ongoing. 0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:32.800 But also I think it's really important. I mean, the 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:34.880 things you just described, I think it's really important for 0:54:35.000 --> 0:54:38.600 listeners to understand this the AID question, the question of 0:54:38.920 --> 0:54:42.120 these humanitarian organizations and what's happening to them, whether it's 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:44.640 the registration through the Ministry of Daspreaffairs. 0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:47.680 And I think combating anti Semitism is its full name. 0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:47.960 That's it. 0:54:48.239 --> 0:54:50.120 That's Lacky should have red. 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:53.080 So yeah, I mean there are so many problems with 0:54:53.640 --> 0:54:56.960 this ministry and it has been even internally criticized by 0:54:57.040 --> 0:54:58.239 by Tel Aviv University for. 0:54:58.280 --> 0:55:01.560 Example, Yeah, or even at see members of the government itself. 0:55:01.640 --> 0:55:03.360 By the way, I think there was a there was 0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:07.440 something about somebody in Israel government not attending the intermn 0:55:07.480 --> 0:55:10.600 is Serial Committee meeting, you know, because it was wanting 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:12.040 to be associated to it. 0:55:12.200 --> 0:55:15.880 So yeah, it's a very problematic committee. 0:55:16.239 --> 0:55:19.640 But I mean if this kind of committee is responsible 0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:23.480 for registering Internet you know, international organizations and humanitarian organizations, 0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:25.440 then there's all the blockade of AID. All of these 0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:30.120 are parts of the same ethnic cleansing strategy that what 0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:32.120 we're seeing in Gaza, whatether you want to call it 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:33.600 ethnic cleansing or genocide. 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:36.040 You know, people are being eradicated. 0:55:36.320 --> 0:55:38.680 We're seeing large scale displacements in the West Bank, and 0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:42.040 as you mentioned, if these organizations also stop existing in Jerusalem. 0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:45.200 We'll see Jerusalem next, not piecemeal the way that we've 0:55:45.239 --> 0:55:49.600 been seeing it possible, absolutely, you know, a more aggressive way. 0:55:49.719 --> 0:55:52.279 And so I really think it's important to kind of 0:55:52.360 --> 0:55:55.640 underscore for listeners that this is part and parcel of 0:55:55.800 --> 0:56:00.120 an annexation and ethnic cleansing plan that people from the 0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:04.400 Religious Zionist Party have been saying since the early twenty tens. 0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:09.960 Bazilos Motrich, finance minister today had the decisive plan that said, 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:13.040 you know, you either surrender or transfer, and we're at 0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:13.520 that level. 0:56:13.840 --> 0:56:16.920 They are transferring, they are making sure that that happens, 0:56:17.040 --> 0:56:18.520 and they are in the West Bank as well. 0:56:18.600 --> 0:56:21.600 I mean, you know, it's quiet and all eyes aren't Gaza, 0:56:21.760 --> 0:56:24.239 but I mean we've seen displacement of entire communities in 0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:27.320 the last few weeks only, let alone the largest numbers 0:56:27.360 --> 0:56:31.120 have forcibly displaced Palestinian since nineteen sixty seven in the 0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:34.320 West Bank this year and in the refugee camps that 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:37.759 have been attacked exactly, so you know, and again, I mean, 0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:40.440 you know, you can look at the history of smear 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:45.040 campaigns against Ohawa by these really authorities. I mean, that's 0:56:45.280 --> 0:56:49.160 just in itself. You know the services that ohwa provide. 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:53.759 You know, we have to re emphasize like education, health services, 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:57.279 I mean, you know, shelter, oh no, what provides key 0:56:57.440 --> 0:57:01.279 services that the Pelstine authority is none to respond to? 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:03.760 What is going to happen to all of these people 0:57:04.000 --> 0:57:11.000 when you know and already know what So listeners, electricity 0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:12.200 cut off and real love. 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:15.080 This is our lives. Yeah, so we might have to 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:18.640 restart some of that answer, that's fine. Yeah, So did 0:57:18.720 --> 0:57:20.200 you want to pick up where you lost up? 0:57:20.480 --> 0:57:21.000 I was, yeah. 0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:22.720 I mean the point is is that this is you know, 0:57:22.840 --> 0:57:26.080 a long standing policy by Israel. It's just like very 0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:29.400 much accelerated like every other policy if there is when 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:34.320 it comes to you know, forcible displacement, collective punishment, you know, detensions. 0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:37.760 I mean, everything is at a record high and accelerating 0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:41.640 so quickly with this. You know, right wing, far right 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:45.440 wing government that's you know, has zero checks and balances, 0:57:45.560 --> 0:57:48.960 zero nobody holds them accountable to anything, and so you 0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:50.720 know they're able to get away with all of this. 0:57:51.280 --> 0:57:53.280 So I mean, my my sense is that you know, 0:57:53.800 --> 0:57:57.400 very soon you will no longer see kind of the 0:57:57.520 --> 0:58:02.360 long standing organizations that have been here for decades that 0:58:02.560 --> 0:58:05.600 have very much understood the context very well and have 0:58:05.760 --> 0:58:08.880 understood that it's impossible to do the work that we 0:58:09.040 --> 0:58:12.960 do without also bearing witness and speaking out on what 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:15.680 we're witnessing. And I think the UN and it's in 0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:20.200 that way, you know, even the United Nations, where in Pelsline, 0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:23.920 has made sure that the States committed to that mandate 0:58:24.200 --> 0:58:28.440 because of how important it is to speak out on 0:58:28.560 --> 0:58:31.120 what you're seeing around you. I think like that's purely 0:58:31.760 --> 0:58:34.360 I think, like, you know, we're the only ones that 0:58:34.440 --> 0:58:38.520 are able to witness and record independently what we're seeing 0:58:38.640 --> 0:58:40.720 on a daily day basis. And I think the UN 0:58:40.880 --> 0:58:44.560 has been incredible in keeping a record of that. I mean, 0:58:44.600 --> 0:58:47.400 I think they started recording in two thousand and eight, 0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:52.680 so it's like eighteen years now almost of monitoring violations 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:55.800 all across the territory. And if it wasn't for the 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:58.640 work that the UN has done in that, we wouldn't 0:58:58.680 --> 0:59:02.240 be able to say that there is a genocide being 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:05.280 carried out in Gaza, or that the risk of ethnic 0:59:05.360 --> 0:59:09.240 cleansing has risen exponentially in the West Bank. The reason 0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:11.040 why we're able to say this is because we're able 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:13.360 to see the patterns and the data, and you know, 0:59:13.520 --> 0:59:16.680 you can contest the data. But you know, even you 0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:19.800 were talking about the IPC, the IPC is not even 0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:23.880 reflective of what's really happening, and they say it themselves. 0:59:23.920 --> 0:59:25.680 But you know, of course the media the way the 0:59:25.760 --> 0:59:28.200 media kind of focuses on what the results because you know, 0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:30.720 you only have time for sound bites. But if we 0:59:30.880 --> 0:59:34.800 read the IPC alerts, it's clear that one they're always delayed, 0:59:35.240 --> 0:59:39.200 so they're always talking about a time that's already passed 0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:42.040 and we're way, we won't beyond that. And two it 0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:44.480 says that it doesn't have access to Gaza. But look 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:47.120 at the testimonies, you know, just like just reading the 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:50.760 testimonies that some of our organizations have recorded in the 0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:54.040 last week, just talking about our own colleagues and how 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.640 they're facing starvation themselves. I mean, I think the testimonies 0:59:57.680 --> 1:00:00.520 speak to themselves on what is happening, guys. And I 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:03.160 don't need the IPC to tell me that there's a 1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:06.920 classification four or five. It's never going to declare famine 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:09.160 when it's not there, Like, there's never going to be 1:00:09.240 --> 1:00:11.120 a time where the IPC because that's not even the 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:11.960 role of the IPC. 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:14.400 The role of the IPCs not to declare FAM and 1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:15.760 the role the IPC is just. 1:00:16.040 --> 1:00:18.600 To collect the data and publish the data and then 1:00:18.640 --> 1:00:21.840 it's the role of the UN or another international body 1:00:21.920 --> 1:00:23.840 to do so. So we're not going to see if 1:00:23.840 --> 1:00:26.600 I'm at declaration because we don't have access, and so 1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.360 you know, we're not going to be able to say 1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:32.440 that with confidence because the IPC is never going to 1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:34.200 be able to publish that data. 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:35.360 But I don't think it matters. 1:00:35.520 --> 1:00:38.080 I think what matters is what we're seeing on the ground, 1:00:38.480 --> 1:00:41.760 what's being reported, and you know, I mean it's undeniable 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:44.840 really by the pictures themselves. I mean that the videos 1:00:44.880 --> 1:00:46.600 and the pictures that are coming out of guys are 1:00:46.760 --> 1:00:50.640 just speak for themselves really. So it's definitely unprecedented times 1:00:50.680 --> 1:00:52.720 for us, and it's going to be a very very 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:55.600 interesting and frightening, terrifying here to be frank. 1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:58.320 Yeah, No, I mean, as I said at the beginning, 1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:01.960 and there are of course critiques as of the limitations 1:01:02.000 --> 1:01:08.240 of the UN, but this idea that they are wanting 1:01:08.480 --> 1:01:14.160 organizations as a condition of registering them to somehow not 1:01:14.280 --> 1:01:17.280 bear witness to what is happening and not to write 1:01:17.320 --> 1:01:20.800 reports about what's happening. It's a way of hobbling the 1:01:21.520 --> 1:01:25.480 ability of actually creating policies, like if you want to 1:01:25.520 --> 1:01:27.840 talk about famine, or if you want to talk about poverty, 1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:31.840 as OXGM does, how could you solve it without talking 1:01:31.920 --> 1:01:35.040 about the root cause? In every way, in every direction, 1:01:35.760 --> 1:01:38.640 the Israeli government is attempting to hobble the ability of 1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:42.720 international organizations of the Palestinians themselves to be able to 1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:45.240 solve the root causes of these problems. Yeah. 1:01:45.280 --> 1:01:48.160 Absolutely, I mean it will have to be fine, creative ways, 1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:51.640 just like you know, our Pulstinian Civil Society partners that 1:01:51.880 --> 1:01:55.880 you have been also designated have had to find, you know, 1:01:56.040 --> 1:01:58.880 ways to continue doing their work. But you know, I 1:01:58.960 --> 1:02:02.680 mean even them, you know, they've lost funding, They've had 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:05.240 to reduce their operations, They've had to reduce their field 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:07.840 officers that go to the field and do this work. 1:02:08.400 --> 1:02:11.840 So I mean, I I it's it's so uncertain, but 1:02:11.960 --> 1:02:14.760 I think the fact that many of these organizations have 1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:18.640 been here for so long understand so deeply the context. 1:02:18.680 --> 1:02:22.080 I think organizations will also do whatever they can in 1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:25.400 order to ensure that they continue the important work here 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:28.360 and find ways to continue to work. 1:02:28.720 --> 1:02:29.400 I don't know how. 1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:31.960 It's really a new time for us, like we've never 1:02:32.040 --> 1:02:33.800 been there before, so we don't know what it looks 1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:37.720 like how we're going to be able to continue our work, 1:02:37.800 --> 1:02:41.200 but we're committed to that, so we will find, you 1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:44.640 know whatever. I don't want to say loophole because you 1:02:44.720 --> 1:02:47.840 know there are none, but we'll find whatever way. 1:02:47.920 --> 1:02:50.280 To continue to continue kind of. 1:02:50.320 --> 1:02:53.919 Being here and being present and remain remaining present because 1:02:53.920 --> 1:02:57.520 I think it's also part of our commitment to the 1:02:57.640 --> 1:02:59.520 work that we've been doing in OPT for decades. 1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:02.360 So yeah, yeah, I. 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:07.240 Think maybe we should end on a discussion about the 1:03:07.440 --> 1:03:10.720 Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. I mean, I've already mentioned it in 1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:14.840 a previous episode, so I encourage listeners to look into that, 1:03:15.680 --> 1:03:18.640 but I you know, I think it's important we discuss 1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:23.360 what is this foundation and what is the impact has 1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:26.960 had on people in Gaza and on international organizations that 1:03:27.000 --> 1:03:27.960 are already doing this work. 1:03:28.800 --> 1:03:33.480 Yeah, okay, the GHF for Gaza Humanity and Foundation slash GHF. 1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:37.400 I don't like talking about it as such because it's 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:39.800 the issue, of course, is that's one of the issues. 1:03:39.880 --> 1:03:43.480 But GHF is part of many actors, okay, and it's 1:03:43.600 --> 1:03:44.440 not GHF. 1:03:44.600 --> 1:03:48.240 GHF is a facade for many actors that you know, 1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:51.200 the US and Israeli's isn't as really planned. And I 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:53.800 don't think we need to we cannot, you know, I 1:03:53.960 --> 1:03:57.040 know there's US military actors in GHF at you know, 1:03:57.200 --> 1:03:59.520 the border and shooting at people. But this isn't a 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:02.800 really plan, okay, and we have to dub it as such. 1:04:03.480 --> 1:04:07.520 This plan actually came into We started hearing about this 1:04:07.720 --> 1:04:10.720 plan a year and a half ago. It was maybe 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:14.520 May last year we saw the General Islands plan on 1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:16.680 what they wanted to do in the north when they 1:04:16.760 --> 1:04:19.840 started the ethnic cleansing campaign in the north of Gaza 1:04:19.880 --> 1:04:22.600 where they besieged the north and tried to force everybody south. 1:04:23.080 --> 1:04:26.280 The idea then was already they had already were already 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:30.480 hearing about something called humanitarian bubbles. And the bubbles are 1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:33.920 the sites of what it's what's what's become the sites. Right, 1:04:34.000 --> 1:04:36.440 But this idea of what has been floating around for 1:04:37.240 --> 1:04:40.200 more than eighteen months. It's just that nothing kind of 1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:44.600 transpired until May. I guess that's when May the operation started. 1:04:45.120 --> 1:04:49.680 So it's really launched. This as an authorization mechanism. This 1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:52.439 is how it was originally kind of and that would 1:04:52.600 --> 1:04:57.920 expand basically Israeli military control over how aid enters, moves 1:04:58.000 --> 1:05:01.840 within and is distributed inside Gaza. And of course I 1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:04.680 mean that and on its own is a clear attempt 1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:09.960 to instrumentalize humanitarian aid. So you know, and I think 1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:12.800 it's it's it's it's very important to clarify. You know, 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:17.600 our organizations we operate and there's extremely rigorous standards and 1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:21.400 mechanisms where we're ensure the aid is not diverted. And 1:05:21.720 --> 1:05:23.880 I think a diversion, you know, it's been talked about 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:28.360 like Hamas eight divers A diversion exists everywhere. Its exists 1:05:28.400 --> 1:05:30.720 in every crisis we work in. Like it's something that 1:05:30.880 --> 1:05:34.520 is part of you know, crisis mode, like this is 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:38.040 where when there's a crisis, when there's chaos, that's where 1:05:38.080 --> 1:05:41.760 there's space for informal actors to start popping up. So 1:05:42.160 --> 1:05:45.120 it's a symptom of every crisis around the world. And 1:05:45.240 --> 1:05:47.840 so you know, it's not just a Gaza thing. So 1:05:47.960 --> 1:05:51.880 we have totalcols on how we can ensure that a 1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:56.440 diversion doesn't happen in operations. And of course as humanitarians, 1:05:56.480 --> 1:06:02.720 we would never accept military or profit driven intermediaries overriding 1:06:03.200 --> 1:06:07.640 what we call principled aid delivery, because it basically means 1:06:07.720 --> 1:06:11.520 that you're expanding military control over aid operations by an 1:06:11.640 --> 1:06:14.800 actual party to the conflict you know, which, of course, 1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:18.400 risks that aid will never reach the most vulnerable you know, 1:06:18.520 --> 1:06:20.920 of course at a time when it was most needed. 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:25.840 So from our perspective, there is no scenario where we 1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:29.720 would accept any attempts to militarize and privatize humanitarian aid, 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:33.120 whether it's a GAZO or anywhere else, because such actions 1:06:33.240 --> 1:06:37.480 actually biolate international humanitarian law, but also they undermine the 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:41.960 core principles of humanitarian law, which are in partiality, independence, 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:45.560 in humanity. These are principles that guide all of our work. 1:06:46.040 --> 1:06:48.960 And of course, what is the most dangerous about this 1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:54.040 model is not only the massacres that have occurred near 1:06:54.200 --> 1:06:58.400 daily at these food distribution sites run by the GJEP 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:01.840 and other actors. It's it's set such a dangerous precedent 1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:06.360 where occupying powers around the world will now be able 1:07:06.400 --> 1:07:09.400 to dictate the terms of aid based on their political 1:07:09.440 --> 1:07:12.880 agendas and their military goals. That is what's effectively now 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:15.240 happened is that if it's happened in gays of why 1:07:15.320 --> 1:07:18.160 can it not happen in Uganda and d Orski and Sudan? 1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:30.680 And I want to also take it a little back. 1:07:31.120 --> 1:07:34.560 Let's talk about the peer. The peer last year is 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:36.000 exactly the same. 1:07:36.320 --> 1:07:39.440 It's the same thing. It's an international. 1:07:39.280 --> 1:07:45.040 Company called Fogbow run by former US military veterans and 1:07:45.920 --> 1:07:50.040 soldiers and others, other actors that you know, spent three 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:53.400 hundred and twenty million dollars on a floating pier that 1:07:53.640 --> 1:07:57.280 brought virtually nothing in and in fact was used for 1:07:57.480 --> 1:08:02.840 one rescue mission, rescue operation by special forces where they entered. 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:05.600 I think it was the way that camp the refugee 1:08:05.600 --> 1:08:08.560 camp at the time and were able to obviously, yeah, 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:12.640 rescue hostages, but kill I mean, you know a dozens 1:08:12.800 --> 1:08:15.480 in that operation using the peer, and hence why we're 1:08:15.560 --> 1:08:18.400 like we do not we would distance ourselves and from 1:08:18.439 --> 1:08:20.679 the beginning distance ourselves from the peer. 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:23.200 There's no difference with the distribution sites. 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:27.080 It's the same kind of idea that with logistics we 1:08:27.240 --> 1:08:31.280 can we can address a political issue. The issue of 1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:34.080 Gaza is not an issue of logistics. Something you enter 1:08:34.200 --> 1:08:36.040 angios don't know how to do the work policies, So 1:08:36.320 --> 1:08:39.200 tell us the use of society has been responding to 1:08:39.640 --> 1:08:43.280 the civilian needs in Gaza from before the war, right, 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:46.120 you know, eighty percent of the Gaza population was dependent 1:08:46.120 --> 1:08:49.200 on humanitarian assistance before the war. So, I mean, you know, 1:08:49.880 --> 1:08:51.400 it's not that we didn't know how to do it, 1:08:51.560 --> 1:08:54.640 it's that we were prevented from doing it. We were 1:08:54.720 --> 1:08:58.400 deliberately prevented from doing it. So it's a political decision. 1:08:58.439 --> 1:09:02.120 It's not a logistical decision that prevents us from doing 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:06.320 our work in Gaza. And so branch thing Israel control 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:08.800 over who receives the aid, where they received the aid, 1:09:08.840 --> 1:09:12.000 and from who has basically turned what is relief what 1:09:12.080 --> 1:09:15.040 should be relieved to the civilian population is actually a 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:18.320 tool of coorsion because what we saw is massacres, people 1:09:18.400 --> 1:09:22.639 being shot indiscriminately at I mean, we heard doctor Nick 1:09:22.760 --> 1:09:26.080 Maynard yesterday. Yesterday he came back from Gaza a week 1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:30.120 ago where we've heard of children being shot in the 1:09:30.200 --> 1:09:34.160 testicles at these distribution sites, you know, and no one 1:09:34.320 --> 1:09:38.160 he mentioned on the same date he saw half a 1:09:38.240 --> 1:09:42.639 dozen boys with the same injury, sniper shot, sniper shots 1:09:42.880 --> 1:09:47.280 in the testicles at food distribution sites. So what's happened 1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:49.479 now is that what Israel has done is that it 1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:53.040 blurred the line between what humanitarian assistance is, what a 1:09:53.120 --> 1:09:56.280 military objective is, and of course putting the civilian helstine 1:09:56.320 --> 1:09:59.560 civilians and aid workers as well, because aid workers, we 1:09:59.680 --> 1:10:01.800 know some of our colleagues in different organizations that but 1:10:01.920 --> 1:10:04.360 even themselves I've had to go to these food distribution 1:10:04.479 --> 1:10:07.519 sites because there's nothing and we're unable to even support our. 1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:08.840 Own staff at risk. 1:10:09.000 --> 1:10:11.439 And of course, I mean this entire system has eroded 1:10:12.080 --> 1:10:17.200 any protections that are guaranteed to aid workers and humanitarian 1:10:17.240 --> 1:10:20.440 responses under international law and under the Geneva Conventions. 1:10:21.000 --> 1:10:24.479 So it's not only that it killed people and that 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.000 it's harmed Palestinians, but. 1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:31.639 It actually it's also a complete disregard for international law, 1:10:31.800 --> 1:10:35.880 complete disregard of international law. And at the same time, 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:39.280 I think what people failed to remember is that at 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:42.400 the same time as this plan of the distribution sites 1:10:42.880 --> 1:10:45.560 was set being set up in the south, at the 1:10:45.600 --> 1:10:50.200 same time Israel every two days was evacuating forcibly displaced, 1:10:50.240 --> 1:10:54.439 saying basically the population towards the south right and in 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:57.320 less than two months, we've got almost a thousand Palestines 1:10:57.360 --> 1:11:01.000 that were killed. But also and in that movement of 1:11:01.080 --> 1:11:03.679 the population towards the south, because that's the only place 1:11:03.720 --> 1:11:06.760 that they had food, right, So, you know, this is 1:11:06.840 --> 1:11:07.360 not protection. 1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:10.799 This is complete coercion. You know, when you move aid into. 1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:16.080 Fence, supervise spaces under militaries, really military control. Frankly, and 1:11:16.240 --> 1:11:18.800 what we saw from the pictures recalls some of the 1:11:18.880 --> 1:11:21.920 darkest chapters of humanitarian. 1:11:21.320 --> 1:11:25.919 Failure of our history. It's not protection, it's coercion. 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:30.680 And you know, no countries, nobody should ever support a 1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:35.000 model that is basically treating civilians as prisoners. And that's 1:11:35.080 --> 1:11:38.840 not what humanitarian aid is about. Humanitarian responses have to 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.040 be guided by international law. It has to remain voluntary, 1:11:42.360 --> 1:11:44.639 it has to be grounded in the dignity of the people, 1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:47.720 and it has to be delivered impartially not shaped by 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:52.920 Israel's occupation or israel siege or Israel's military control. So 1:11:53.280 --> 1:11:56.760 not only has this scheme reinforced military control over the 1:11:56.800 --> 1:12:01.280 God's ship, it has completely dehumanized posts by design, like 1:12:01.400 --> 1:12:04.800 Palasinians are only worth a box of food. That's that's 1:12:04.920 --> 1:12:07.439 what basically essentially What has happened is that we have 1:12:08.400 --> 1:12:15.120 reduced a humanitarian response that addresses hospitals, medical care, water sanitation, 1:12:15.600 --> 1:12:19.880 wastewater shelter. It goes right to dignity, to a box 1:12:20.040 --> 1:12:23.360 of flour. You know that you can get killed getting 1:12:23.800 --> 1:12:26.439 or you get killed. And not only that, it's the 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:30.400 first come, first serf. You know, it's whoever's the strongest. 1:12:30.920 --> 1:12:33.160 It's the survival of the fittest. That's not what a 1:12:33.280 --> 1:12:37.400 humanitarian aday is about. We're supposed to meet the most vulnerable. 1:12:37.439 --> 1:12:40.640 We need to reach the pregnant moms, the people with 1:12:40.720 --> 1:12:44.000 di stabilities, the number of record number of amputees in Gaza, 1:12:44.320 --> 1:12:46.920 the record number of disabled people than Gaza right now. 1:12:47.400 --> 1:12:47.799 Children. 1:12:48.040 --> 1:12:50.439 Half of Gaza are children. They are part of some 1:12:50.560 --> 1:12:53.479 of the most vulnerable sections of society. Age should be 1:12:53.760 --> 1:12:56.080 going to them. They don't have They shouldn't have to 1:12:56.160 --> 1:12:59.400 come to us walk for you know, I mean some 1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:01.800 people have said twenty kilometers they've had to walk to 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:04.160 go to these distribution sides in the middle of the 1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:07.879 night in sand dunes. They have to duck because otherwise 1:13:07.920 --> 1:13:10.479 they might get shot by sniper shot. And then when 1:13:10.520 --> 1:13:14.160 the gates of hell open of these you know, fence zones, 1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:16.320 whatever you want to call them. I don't even like 1:13:16.400 --> 1:13:19.200 calling them distribution sites because they're not distribution sizes. It 1:13:19.360 --> 1:13:21.560 implies that there's some sort of like system to it. 1:13:21.640 --> 1:13:24.519 There's no system. It's literally the gates to hell. And 1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:29.200 then everybody flows into the you know, floods, and we've 1:13:29.240 --> 1:13:31.840 heard of people carrying knives to protect themselves because they're 1:13:31.840 --> 1:13:34.800 getting looted because's not enough of course food. 1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:37.680 And then there are gangs that are being weaponized by. 1:13:37.680 --> 1:13:39.240 The stop you know so. 1:13:39.479 --> 1:13:42.120 And actually what I what I was saying to people 1:13:42.240 --> 1:13:45.800 is that actually, what GDHF has created is created the 1:13:46.080 --> 1:13:50.320 perfect it's the perfect recipe for armed gangs and a 1:13:50.479 --> 1:13:51.400 diversion to occur. 1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:55.480 Like it's actually like providing the perfect environment. 1:13:55.600 --> 1:13:59.960 For these informal actors, gangs, criminals to prosper to you know, 1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:02.439 this is you're creating that kind of environment. 1:14:02.800 --> 1:14:06.240 Because let's just be very directed. This is not about 1:14:06.280 --> 1:14:09.800 aid no, of course not no, It's not coercion. It's 1:14:09.800 --> 1:14:13.160 about coercion. I mean, as you mentioned from the very beginning, 1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:14.840 it was about sequestering Palestinians. 1:14:15.120 --> 1:14:17.640 And they said it actually and by the way they 1:14:17.800 --> 1:14:21.000 said it, it's really work. Cabinet has said that, you know, 1:14:21.080 --> 1:14:24.000 and it's like we have to take things that face values. 1:14:24.080 --> 1:14:26.479 Sometimes they said it, they've been seeing it for the 1:14:26.560 --> 1:14:29.120 last year. We just you know, waited until it happened 1:14:29.160 --> 1:14:30.640 on the ground to be able to now say it 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:34.160 and confirm it. But this was their plan from the beginning, 1:14:34.240 --> 1:14:37.840 and there was nothing implied. It was very explicit, right, no, 1:14:37.960 --> 1:14:39.040 I mean, very very. 1:14:39.000 --> 1:14:43.800 Clear, and it really frustrates me personally because you know, 1:14:44.240 --> 1:14:47.600 Arab media of Palestinian journalists, Palestinians on the ground testimonies 1:14:47.640 --> 1:14:51.160 would would say, we're being arrested at these sites, they're 1:14:51.240 --> 1:14:56.880 using facial recognition, they're very much politicizing AID And it 1:14:56.960 --> 1:15:00.439 took forever for us to be even be able to 1:15:00.479 --> 1:15:02.360 say it, to be able to even be able to 1:15:02.439 --> 1:15:07.360 report on it, until Western media sources confirmed yesterday a 1:15:07.479 --> 1:15:10.639 number of children were released saw that from being arrested 1:15:10.680 --> 1:15:13.320 at the at these age sites, and I couldn't mention 1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:16.320 that in things that I wrote because they didn't believe 1:15:16.400 --> 1:15:17.759 Kalestinian testin I mean. 1:15:17.640 --> 1:15:23.000 The GHF contractor themselves themselves have admitted to what is 1:15:23.080 --> 1:15:25.320 happening and everything that we've been seeing and saying and 1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:27.400 you know and warning. I mean, you know, I'd like 1:15:27.479 --> 1:15:28.960 to say as well. I mean, I want to I 1:15:29.000 --> 1:15:33.479 want to underscore actually, humanitarians have been underlining this very 1:15:33.640 --> 1:15:37.240 very explicitly to everybody since before they were even set. 1:15:37.320 --> 1:15:40.040 So you know, I can see for the clear conscience 1:15:40.080 --> 1:15:41.880 that we did what we needed and we could you know, 1:15:42.000 --> 1:15:44.640 what we could do, and we did warn that this 1:15:44.760 --> 1:15:48.000 would happen and this would be the result, and now. 1:15:48.120 --> 1:15:52.839 Here we are right. No, I mean, it's it's absolutely important, Pauline. 1:15:53.040 --> 1:15:56.240 So I want to mention to listeners that I will 1:15:56.320 --> 1:15:58.680 put in the show notes a lot of you know, 1:15:58.800 --> 1:16:01.719 these citations that you reporting that close to a thousand 1:16:01.720 --> 1:16:05.679 people have died at these sites. The doctor Nick Maynard, 1:16:05.800 --> 1:16:08.960 speaking to Channel four News in Britain about what he saw. 1:16:09.720 --> 1:16:13.080 I also want to point listeners to a volume that 1:16:13.439 --> 1:16:17.759 was released called Suppressing Dissent, edited by Zaha Hassan and h. A. Hellier, 1:16:18.200 --> 1:16:20.639 because full disclosure, I do have a chapter in that book, 1:16:20.720 --> 1:16:25.320 but it's about the shrinking civic space prior to October 1:16:25.360 --> 1:16:29.320 seventh and the dynamics that we have we have seen, 1:16:29.680 --> 1:16:32.479 you know, basically playing out at this point. Thank you 1:16:32.560 --> 1:16:36.120 so much, Bushel for coming and speaking with us under 1:16:36.200 --> 1:16:42.439 such severe circumstances and explaining I think really succinctly the 1:16:42.600 --> 1:16:47.040 dangers of this moment, because what is happening in Gaza 1:16:47.439 --> 1:16:48.360 will change the world. 1:16:48.640 --> 1:16:50.320 It will change everywhere, and. 1:16:50.920 --> 1:16:52.760 It already is I think, you know, I would tell 1:16:52.800 --> 1:16:55.960 listeners go look at AP's article on fog Bow and 1:16:56.040 --> 1:16:59.240 Uganda and Soudan. Remember you're seeing it. It's not even 1:16:59.280 --> 1:17:01.200 that it will change the world. We're already seeing the 1:17:01.280 --> 1:17:04.920 precedent that Gaza has set for other humanitarying crises and 1:17:05.040 --> 1:17:09.680 for these military actors and private contractors to profit from 1:17:09.760 --> 1:17:12.719 misery like that's that's essentially what is happening. 1:17:12.800 --> 1:17:13.320 That's happening. 1:17:13.400 --> 1:17:15.680 So you know, I would also direct you to that 1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:17.880 article from AP that came out a couple of weeks 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:21.760 ago about the same companies operating in Gaza and you know, 1:17:21.880 --> 1:17:24.960 being complicit in the atrocities that we're seeing unfolded Gaza 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:29.240 now operating in other contexts and prices humanitearing. 1:17:28.720 --> 1:17:31.479 Crises really terrible breaking world. 1:17:31.640 --> 1:17:32.160 Yeah, I know. 1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:34.280 Yeah, Well, thank you so much. 1:17:34.200 --> 1:17:38.360 And thanks Dan, thank you, and hopefully see you soon 1:17:38.400 --> 1:17:39.040 and talk to you soon. 1:17:39.920 --> 1:17:40.320 Take care. 1:17:56.800 --> 1:18:00.519 Hello everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's Media Today, 1:18:00.680 --> 1:18:03.439 and I'm very lucky to be joined by Bryce from 1:18:03.520 --> 1:18:05.439 No More Deaths And what we're going to talk about 1:18:05.439 --> 1:18:09.560 today is this really excellent piece of data visualization and 1:18:09.680 --> 1:18:14.040 research that depicts a very sad topic, which is the 1:18:14.240 --> 1:18:17.560 deaths of migrants entering the United States. And Bryce, I 1:18:17.600 --> 1:18:18.800 know he's done a lot of work on this, So 1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:19.639 welcome to the show. 1:18:19.680 --> 1:18:20.800 Bryce, thank you. 1:18:21.200 --> 1:18:21.920 Yeah, you're welcome. 1:18:22.479 --> 1:18:25.439 I guess maybe we can start off. I'm looking at 1:18:25.479 --> 1:18:28.000 this data visualization on a map right now, and we'll 1:18:28.040 --> 1:18:30.280 have links in the show notes for other people who 1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:34.120 want to look at it. Can you explain, like what 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:36.439 this data set is? 1:18:37.479 --> 1:18:41.719 Yeah, So we collected through a bunch of different sources, 1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:46.479 medical examiners, Justices of the Peace, SHERIFFISAL partner CBPS owned data, 1:18:46.960 --> 1:18:51.000 just a bunch of data on individual micrant deaths along 1:18:51.040 --> 1:18:55.040 the US Mexico border. And so this is different data 1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:57.320 through each source, but generally we tried to get a 1:18:57.360 --> 1:19:00.559 lot of demographic data, location data, posit death than at 1:19:00.680 --> 1:19:03.720 least some form of the instagram laertive to kind of 1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:05.760 get a little bit of the context on how you 1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:06.719 produce people guide. 1:19:07.320 --> 1:19:09.080 Yeah, if people are looking at the map. 1:19:09.160 --> 1:19:12.760 They can see various colored dots, right, and they can 1:19:12.800 --> 1:19:14.960 click on that dot and that will give them the 1:19:15.040 --> 1:19:18.200 fiscal year the border trail sector. In some cases you'll 1:19:18.240 --> 1:19:22.200 see like the type of death, maybe a gender and age, 1:19:22.280 --> 1:19:25.920 things like that. I know, looking at it, like it's 1:19:25.960 --> 1:19:28.679 one of those things that maybe is more emotionally difficult 1:19:28.720 --> 1:19:31.400 to view if you're more familiar, Like I can look 1:19:31.439 --> 1:19:34.400 at these dots and I can think of places I've been. 1:19:35.520 --> 1:19:38.080 I can even think of that the day I was there, 1:19:38.320 --> 1:19:42.599 and it's quite it's impactful to see that all these 1:19:42.640 --> 1:19:45.360 people have died in places I know so well. Perhaps 1:19:46.040 --> 1:19:49.400 we can explain, like the scale of this is huge, right, 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:51.320 do you know how many exactly how many data points 1:19:51.320 --> 1:19:52.080 there are on here? 1:19:52.840 --> 1:19:55.519 I think there's something like solve a thirteen thousand. Yeah, 1:19:55.640 --> 1:19:59.479 it's fast, which overall is like not a great sort 1:19:59.520 --> 1:20:02.479 of liking a cater of how many people have actually 1:20:02.560 --> 1:20:05.439 died or even know how many people could be reported 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:08.120 to have diet just because the Texas dated all is 1:20:08.280 --> 1:20:08.759 so wonky. 1:20:09.920 --> 1:20:13.040 Yeah, let's get into that. Then let's talk about maybe 1:20:13.920 --> 1:20:17.160 the sources for this data, and then maybe perhaps how 1:20:18.280 --> 1:20:22.400 your estimates are much high even with some of the emissions, 1:20:22.479 --> 1:20:25.719 Like the data that you have tends to show under reporting, 1:20:25.880 --> 1:20:28.360 So like can you explain first, like where does this 1:20:28.520 --> 1:20:31.080 data come from and how how did you get it? 1:20:31.160 --> 1:20:33.599 You were saying the Texas numbers are lower, but can 1:20:33.640 --> 1:20:36.560 you explain how like there are these multiple jurisdictions and 1:20:36.600 --> 1:20:39.240 how you can't just like ask someone for this information. 1:20:39.720 --> 1:20:42.439 Yeah, there's your people were able to disask for it. 1:20:42.560 --> 1:20:46.559 Well, generally it all comes from formal public records requests 1:20:46.920 --> 1:20:50.679 from medical examiners. When we're lucky because medical examiners usually 1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:52.599 have really good, reasonly shapable data. 1:20:53.560 --> 1:20:55.439 So so we did for San Diego County. 1:20:55.720 --> 1:20:56.599 Yeah, they're very good. 1:20:56.760 --> 1:21:00.360 Pima County are the stated in Mexico, al Paso. Other 1:21:00.439 --> 1:21:03.920 places have a coroner that are associated with or sheriff department, 1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:08.120 and that's usually a little dice year they're a little more. 1:21:08.120 --> 1:21:09.439 Reluctant to give up records. 1:21:10.040 --> 1:21:14.599 The Imperial County or Yuma County and then Texas it's 1:21:14.760 --> 1:21:19.400 just like a medical legal nightmare. So there's if smaller 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:23.160 counties don't have medical examiners, they just had Justices of the. 1:21:23.200 --> 1:21:25.600 Peace, which are part of like the courts, and. 1:21:25.800 --> 1:21:29.320 They'll go out and investigate deaths and if an autopsy 1:21:29.400 --> 1:21:31.519 is needed, they'll send it off to another county to 1:21:31.560 --> 1:21:34.040 get an autopsy. There's a huge amount of counties in 1:21:34.120 --> 1:21:37.160 Texas like this. So that data all came from this researcher, 1:21:37.320 --> 1:21:41.360 Stephanie Luister from the University of Texas Austin, who is 1:21:41.400 --> 1:21:44.400 working on a different project, but was gracious enough to share. 1:21:44.160 --> 1:21:46.040 Everything that she had collected. 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:48.800 But that was like just a huge amount of work 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:52.040 physically going to each of these counties looking at what 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:56.000 vapor records from justices of the peace, writing down all 1:21:56.040 --> 1:21:59.799 that data. There's some that comes from like Sheriff's department, 1:22:00.120 --> 1:22:04.439 some that comes from various other sources, so the Texas 1:22:04.560 --> 1:22:08.200 data and some for example, Wegg County Medical Examiner. They 1:22:08.280 --> 1:22:12.080 don't give up their data to anybody, and there's a 1:22:12.160 --> 1:22:15.240 lot of issues with them potentially like not having actually 1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:17.439 performed autopsy on a lot of autopsies on a lot 1:22:17.479 --> 1:22:21.560 of migrants, and there's some potential bookcases about that going on. 1:22:22.400 --> 1:22:22.800 But yeah, so. 1:22:22.880 --> 1:22:26.240 Texas is really messing and a lot of it you'll notice, 1:22:26.320 --> 1:22:27.080 like Texas has. 1:22:26.960 --> 1:22:27.960 A lot of the purple dots. 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:33.120 Yeah, the purple dots on their location data from Border 1:22:33.160 --> 1:22:34.080 Patrols database. 1:22:34.360 --> 1:22:36.920 Yeah, and so that ends in twenty eighteen. 1:22:37.000 --> 1:22:39.479 So we have data possible needs in border patrol over 1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:42.479 not location data. Yeah, and so a lot of Texas 1:22:42.600 --> 1:22:46.639 on that being that's just the Border patrol data unless 1:22:46.680 --> 1:22:51.599 we have love specific access to that place. Is Justice 1:22:51.600 --> 1:22:54.360 to the Pace data. It's so the Texas data is 1:22:54.600 --> 1:22:56.479 pretty limited for about reason. 1:22:57.040 --> 1:23:00.000 Yeah, you can see a sort of very few red dogs, 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:04.479 which which are your your other data sources like in 1:23:04.600 --> 1:23:07.120 Texas aside from it, So maybe Brooks County you're able 1:23:07.160 --> 1:23:09.120 to get Justice to the Peace data there because yeah, 1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:11.560 the density is profound. 1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:15.040 Yeah, it's just the So it's the Brooks County Checks 1:23:15.080 --> 1:23:18.360 Department that actually puts together that data, and they're really 1:23:18.560 --> 1:23:22.160 keen on the whole thing. Okay, And partially it's because 1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:25.040 the data exists, but partially it really wills just to 1:23:25.280 --> 1:23:28.599 reach fluster death in that area because of a checkpoint 1:23:28.760 --> 1:23:31.559 south of there where people will get dropped off south 1:23:31.560 --> 1:23:35.120 of the checkpoint pipe around and it's just like massive, 1:23:36.240 --> 1:23:38.960 massive open grade yard in Brooks County. 1:23:39.320 --> 1:23:41.800 Jeez. Yeah, I don't think I spent much time in 1:23:41.920 --> 1:23:44.240 that part of Texas, but certainly, like some of these 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:47.439 other ones that I'm much more familiar with. Let's talk 1:23:47.479 --> 1:23:51.760 about the CBP data, right, you mentioned it there. One 1:23:51.800 --> 1:23:55.360 of the things you've found was that CBP has a 1:23:55.439 --> 1:24:00.439 systemic issue with undercounting deaths, right, yeah, So where does 1:24:00.520 --> 1:24:01.120 that come from? 1:24:01.520 --> 1:24:05.479 So I've heard from I guess for years Humane Borders 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:08.960 and Pema County Medical Examiner has been documenting this since 1:24:09.080 --> 1:24:12.840 at least twenty fourteen. The major undercount on Border patrols data. 1:24:13.280 --> 1:24:15.200 But something I've here a lot is just that it's 1:24:15.280 --> 1:24:18.800 cases where border patrol wasn't personally involved in the search, 1:24:18.840 --> 1:24:21.439 and that they had changed their counting system to only 1:24:21.520 --> 1:24:23.280 be counting in cases where they were involved. 1:24:23.520 --> 1:24:26.240 And I think that may account for some of it. 1:24:26.720 --> 1:24:30.439 But in order to compare these deaths, border patrols data 1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:35.559 is just really gnarly and messy, and that there's typos, 1:24:35.600 --> 1:24:39.360 there's no spelling. States are wrong, ages are wrong, genders 1:24:39.400 --> 1:24:42.360 are wrong. So you really, in order to compare them, 1:24:42.400 --> 1:24:45.080 you really have to go person by person, go down 1:24:45.120 --> 1:24:48.000 the list, find the death and in order patrol database, 1:24:48.120 --> 1:24:50.840 look at the Medical Examiner data on time to matches 1:24:50.920 --> 1:24:53.920 person by person. So because we have so much of 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:57.439 the incident narratives from the medical examiners. We can actually 1:24:57.479 --> 1:24:59.920 tell when Border patrol was involved, and so we mark 1:25:00.200 --> 1:25:03.160 when border patrols involved when they're not involved, and then 1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:06.519 when that case doesn't actually get counted by Border patrol, okay, 1:25:06.840 --> 1:25:08.519 and it doesn't actually really line up. 1:25:08.720 --> 1:25:10.880 There's not a huge correlation there. 1:25:11.080 --> 1:25:14.080 I mean, there is some correlation, like older skeletal remains 1:25:14.160 --> 1:25:17.080 things like that often won't get counted, but generally there 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:19.120 are a lot of cases where they directly involved, where 1:25:19.320 --> 1:25:22.240 even they were the first responders on the scene to 1:25:22.320 --> 1:25:26.240 a distress call or any number of things, where that 1:25:26.400 --> 1:25:28.960 person will end up in Vorda Patrol's database. And then 1:25:29.000 --> 1:25:31.000 other cases where it seems like they had no involvement, 1:25:31.560 --> 1:25:34.160 that person ends up being in Vortical Patrol's database. So, 1:25:34.439 --> 1:25:37.120 I mean, they've been in trouble with the GAO multiple 1:25:37.200 --> 1:25:41.599 times for undercounting or improperly counting or recording these debts, 1:25:42.000 --> 1:25:45.559 and so they have access to medical examiner data. Medical 1:25:45.600 --> 1:25:48.560 examiners send them the data, they just don't use it. 1:25:49.280 --> 1:25:52.720 We often also noticed that the causes that get really 1:25:52.920 --> 1:25:55.559 don't match up in a lot of really specific cases 1:25:55.760 --> 1:25:59.240 like yeah, for Walfalls, for instance, was the most notable 1:25:59.280 --> 1:26:03.160 one see a huge amount of cases that medical examiner 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:07.200 will say one force trauma, and then border Patrols data 1:26:07.360 --> 1:26:12.040 will say medical examiner and detainment or exposure or any 1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:14.679 number of other things which like for the most part, 1:26:14.960 --> 1:26:17.120 causes the death seem to line up. So the fact 1:26:17.200 --> 1:26:20.040 that these Waalfall deaths it happens to not line up 1:26:20.600 --> 1:26:23.439 is like, you know, I don't want to assume they 1:26:23.479 --> 1:26:26.519 have that intent, although obviously Bordemtrol is bad intent, but 1:26:27.640 --> 1:26:30.519 it seems like it happens regularly enough that it's hard 1:26:30.600 --> 1:26:33.120 to feel like it's not at is somewhat intentional that 1:26:33.560 --> 1:26:36.120 the cases that they're kind of choosing to change the 1:26:36.160 --> 1:26:36.960 couses of death. 1:26:36.840 --> 1:26:40.600 For right, so let's get obfuscates the lethality of the 1:26:40.680 --> 1:26:42.920 border war, right length, it's the amount of people who 1:26:43.000 --> 1:26:43.439 it kills. 1:26:43.800 --> 1:26:45.360 Yeah, I mean to a huge degree too. 1:26:45.400 --> 1:26:47.720 I mean the fact that Bordertrol's data is kind of 1:26:47.760 --> 1:26:50.680 our only source of data for micrant deaths and then 1:26:50.720 --> 1:26:54.000 specifically for deaths caused by border patrol or like Walfall deaths, 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.120 means that the amount of death that we need the 1:26:57.160 --> 1:27:00.439 public has access to, like Walhall deaths for instance, is 1:27:00.560 --> 1:27:02.920 just a drop in the bucket compared to what's actually happening. 1:27:03.040 --> 1:27:05.280 So all of the research and reporting and all the 1:27:05.320 --> 1:27:08.559 stuff that happens around these CNC related deaths is drawing 1:27:08.600 --> 1:27:11.120 off just like truly false numbers. 1:27:12.040 --> 1:27:16.600 Yeah, yeah, and that leads to people drawing bad conclusions. 1:27:16.720 --> 1:27:16.840 Right. 1:27:28.520 --> 1:27:31.640 The other thing that you found is that like that, 1:27:31.720 --> 1:27:35.000 there seems to be an underreporting of in custody deaths, right, 1:27:35.160 --> 1:27:38.800 or an undercounting of people who die in custody. So 1:27:38.880 --> 1:27:40.880 can you explain how you were able to ascertain that 1:27:41.040 --> 1:27:44.639 difference between the in custody death recorded by the Office 1:27:44.680 --> 1:27:47.760 of Professional Responsibility. That's just the ones that you found, right. 1:27:48.040 --> 1:27:52.160 Right, So the opposite Professional Responsibility is all part of CBP, 1:27:52.680 --> 1:27:57.040 and they're supposed to be recording all the saw CBP 1:27:57.120 --> 1:28:01.479 related deaths, including according to the Deaths and Custody Reporting 1:28:01.520 --> 1:28:03.880 Act to like twenty thirteen or whatever it was, army 1:28:03.960 --> 1:28:06.560 destin plustody. There's a really specific definition of what in 1:28:06.640 --> 1:28:11.120 custody means, and so we tried to follow pretty strictly 1:28:11.240 --> 1:28:14.120 what that definition was to kind of make our own 1:28:14.439 --> 1:28:16.960 assessments using the incident narratives. 1:28:17.240 --> 1:28:20.400 Yeah, I'm curious, what does it mean, like I'm thinking 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:23.679 about door detention, right, Like, does that count as in custody? 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:26.479 Yeah? So any only time if a person is in 1:28:26.560 --> 1:28:29.280 the process of being apprehended, if the person has been apprehended, 1:28:29.640 --> 1:28:32.120 if a person has been detained, if the person is 1:28:32.320 --> 1:28:36.080 physically in custody, bordertrol, in a bordertrol vehicle, in a 1:28:36.200 --> 1:28:39.719 cup facility, all those things, who would count as in custody. Okay, 1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:42.880 it's just important because at least one of the cases, 1:28:42.920 --> 1:28:46.200 the border patrol agent involved said the person wasn't in custody, 1:28:46.280 --> 1:28:49.519 he was just detained, which for the purposes of reporting, 1:28:49.560 --> 1:28:52.479 there's actually no difference, right, Yeah, but he said that 1:28:52.680 --> 1:28:55.599 clearly to not have it be labeled as in custody 1:28:55.680 --> 1:28:58.519 death right, and what it seems like that ended up 1:28:58.560 --> 1:29:01.280 not being very able to deserve custody death. So it's 1:29:01.360 --> 1:29:04.519 definitely I think they're they're aware the fact that these 1:29:04.560 --> 1:29:06.680 are being equalted and kind of frown not to have. 1:29:06.760 --> 1:29:09.120 That due to case they have too many of them, 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:12.720 like uppere Another interesting data interesting is your own word, 1:29:12.760 --> 1:29:16.000 but another data point here was the amount of death 1:29:16.160 --> 1:29:20.040 caused by pursuit, right or in pursuit I guess maybe 1:29:20.280 --> 1:29:23.639 you should just explain, like what pursuit is to people 1:29:23.680 --> 1:29:24.400 if they're not aware. 1:29:25.040 --> 1:29:28.360 Yeah, so there's two kinds of pursuit. We listen at 1:29:28.400 --> 1:29:31.639 the same gear on their database. You can see the difference. 1:29:32.120 --> 1:29:36.640 There's chases on motor vehicle and there's chases on foot. So, 1:29:37.360 --> 1:29:41.000 for example, a person's getting chase through the desert and 1:29:41.320 --> 1:29:44.920 collapses and dies be considered a death either pursuit or EF. 1:29:44.960 --> 1:29:48.160 A person is like in al Paso or San Diego 1:29:48.840 --> 1:29:52.880 or Imperial County more is chased, ends up going in 1:29:52.960 --> 1:29:56.160 a canal or jumping into a canal to escape and 1:29:56.320 --> 1:30:00.439 drowns the idea or chase on foot, and then motor 1:30:00.520 --> 1:30:04.240 vehicle pursuits are Yeah, the person is being chased by 1:30:04.320 --> 1:30:06.760 Border patrol and the glowing passions and people are chilled. 1:30:06.960 --> 1:30:07.160 Yeah. 1:30:07.560 --> 1:30:10.920 Use of force cases also include some of these chases 1:30:11.360 --> 1:30:16.280 through OPR standards and CVP standards. If spike strips are deployed, 1:30:16.560 --> 1:30:19.439 or if a vehicle is ran by a Border Patrol vehicle, 1:30:19.560 --> 1:30:22.920 that's considered use of force. So that's where a person 1:30:23.080 --> 1:30:25.479 died due to that, we would call that a use 1:30:25.479 --> 1:30:27.960 of force staff. Yeah, so I guess those are the 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:31.320 two to three different times perceived. That's a great doo. 1:30:31.800 --> 1:30:34.120 And so like, yeah, those are as you say, they're 1:30:34.120 --> 1:30:37.840 broken down the database, right, but in the spreadsheet they 1:30:37.880 --> 1:30:39.000 are combined. 1:30:40.479 --> 1:30:42.120 What does this data show. 1:30:42.000 --> 1:30:45.360 Us about, Like, I guess if we look at the 1:30:45.479 --> 1:30:48.800 last half decade or so, let's go back to like 1:30:48.920 --> 1:30:52.800 twenty sixteen, right, border policy, Like, what does it show 1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:57.000 us about like title eight, Title forty two. We're like 1:30:57.080 --> 1:31:00.479 a little too too close to the Biden assylum band 1:31:00.640 --> 1:31:04.200 to have I guess, like good data on that yet. 1:31:04.720 --> 1:31:07.479 But do you see a clear pattern in like the 1:31:08.560 --> 1:31:13.439 border rhetoric and border quote unquote enforcement and the amount 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:14.760 of death or the type of death? 1:31:15.400 --> 1:31:20.479 Oh, definitely, Yeah, It's it's immediately clear. I mean even 1:31:20.680 --> 1:31:23.799 Biden's asylum ban, I think there is an immediate effect. 1:31:23.840 --> 1:31:26.360 I mean even just with as a normal desk volunteer, 1:31:26.520 --> 1:31:30.240 we started seeing people crossing the border, crossing the desert 1:31:30.360 --> 1:31:33.080 that just never would have yet made the attempt previously, 1:31:33.479 --> 1:31:35.320 you know, and then started to see as people reported 1:31:35.400 --> 1:31:36.160 the death data too. 1:31:36.360 --> 1:31:39.599 So I think all of that is pretty clear. 1:31:40.520 --> 1:31:45.720 So with Trump's restrictions on asylum, I think the biggest thing, 1:31:45.800 --> 1:31:49.360 honestly was all the metering policies rather than just Tiital 1:31:49.439 --> 1:31:52.040 forty two or like protection protocols or any of that. 1:31:52.600 --> 1:31:54.800 It was just the facts that people weren't allowed to 1:31:54.840 --> 1:31:57.640 access the border country. Yeah, I ended up kind of 1:31:57.680 --> 1:32:00.680 like going around to enter like other places in the 1:32:00.720 --> 1:32:02.439 desert border sort of picked them up. 1:32:02.840 --> 1:32:04.040 That all this started happening. 1:32:04.280 --> 1:32:07.040 Yeah, and so it's kind of like a trickle in 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:10.040 twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, a little bit more in twenty 1:32:10.080 --> 1:32:12.800 twenty one, and then twenty twenty two you suddenly seen 1:32:12.920 --> 1:32:16.479 just huge amounts of people from countries other than Mexico 1:32:16.520 --> 1:32:19.639 and Central America starting to show up in the data. 1:32:19.880 --> 1:32:23.400 And then also like people who clearly were trying to 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:27.360 seep asylum showing up in this gap data all the 1:32:27.400 --> 1:32:30.880 way up until it slowed down after you know, the 1:32:31.000 --> 1:32:35.160 end of twenty twenty three, and then but definitely continue 1:32:35.240 --> 1:32:37.599 through through full time of four. Yeah. 1:32:37.800 --> 1:32:40.960 Definitely, Like I speaking from my own experience on the 1:32:41.000 --> 1:32:43.840 border here, we saw the same thing, right, like people 1:32:43.920 --> 1:32:48.080 crossing you wouldn't have seen making that crossing in places 1:32:48.160 --> 1:32:52.200 and times that they wouldn't have crossed, you know, before 1:32:52.240 --> 1:32:55.680 the Biden asylum ban, and like that definitely resulted in 1:32:56.000 --> 1:32:59.040 I mean, there was a weekend September where I think 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:03.320 five people died. September twenty twenty four, we had a 1:33:03.400 --> 1:33:07.280 heat wave and like it immediately resulted in multiple fatalities 1:33:07.320 --> 1:33:11.639 that like wouldn't have been the case previously. I wonder, 1:33:11.800 --> 1:33:17.000 like what does this data set in terms of like recommendations, 1:33:17.120 --> 1:33:19.720 right in terms of like how we can use this 1:33:19.920 --> 1:33:22.000 data set? Obviously, we're at a time when I when 1:33:22.040 --> 1:33:25.040 I guess the Trump administration like had its complete asylum 1:33:25.120 --> 1:33:28.840 band stayed, but we're back at like people can't in 1:33:28.960 --> 1:33:30.800 good faith like turn up to a port of entry 1:33:30.840 --> 1:33:32.360 anymore and just be like, Hey, I'd like to claim 1:33:32.360 --> 1:33:34.920 asylum and really really hope for the best. Like what 1:33:35.160 --> 1:33:37.080 does this data set tell us in terms of like 1:33:37.600 --> 1:33:40.240 what policies kill more people? And like I guess, like 1:33:40.360 --> 1:33:43.439 like what recommendations arise from the data in terms obviously, 1:33:44.120 --> 1:33:46.559 I guess bit of the recommendation is to have laws 1:33:46.600 --> 1:33:49.160 that allow people to fucking enter this country and claim 1:33:49.160 --> 1:33:52.320 asylum without walking across the desert. But that seems like 1:33:52.360 --> 1:33:53.960 it's too much to ask, So like what do we 1:33:54.120 --> 1:33:57.240 learn in terms of like specific policies that are particularly 1:33:57.360 --> 1:34:02.120 fatal and like the way is that that could be 1:34:02.280 --> 1:34:06.400 mitigated and if it's not already by like water drops 1:34:06.439 --> 1:34:06.800 and search. 1:34:07.600 --> 1:34:11.920 Yeah, that's a hard question, just because talking to the 1:34:12.000 --> 1:34:14.479 older people and the more deaths who've been around since 1:34:14.600 --> 1:34:18.080 like kind of the early years of prevention to the terrence, Yeah, 1:34:18.280 --> 1:34:20.599 they talked about sort of feeling like you know, when 1:34:20.640 --> 1:34:22.479 they were first out there, being like, man, this is 1:34:22.560 --> 1:34:25.439 really unsustainable. It came out here all the time like 1:34:25.520 --> 1:34:27.960 this maybe like a few more years we could probably 1:34:28.000 --> 1:34:31.040 handle and then hopefully this prevention through de terrence thing 1:34:31.120 --> 1:34:33.040 will have like kind of stopped. They'll see like this 1:34:33.160 --> 1:34:35.920 is unsustainable, and then here we are all these years 1:34:36.000 --> 1:34:38.479 later and it's worse than it's at again. Yeah, and 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:41.560 the original prevention to de terance policy is like this 1:34:41.720 --> 1:34:44.880 strategy of essentially killing people in the hopes, I know, 1:34:44.920 --> 1:34:47.080 people will stop trying to cross the border or something, 1:34:47.320 --> 1:34:50.120 and kind of just is the original thing that it's 1:34:50.200 --> 1:34:51.240 really hard to get away from. 1:34:51.520 --> 1:34:55.240 And yeah, the fact that right now applying the same. 1:34:55.920 --> 1:35:00.920 Strategy of death and suffering to asylum seekers is really horrifying. 1:35:01.240 --> 1:35:04.719 So I think yeah, Number one, open up ports. 1:35:04.520 --> 1:35:07.360 Eventually to allow asylum secret to seek asylum, bring back 1:35:07.520 --> 1:35:10.240 like even the sort of minimum asylum projections that we 1:35:10.360 --> 1:35:13.720 had back then. Other things like how people are dying 1:35:13.800 --> 1:35:14.400 really matters. 1:35:14.880 --> 1:35:15.080 Yeah. 1:35:15.280 --> 1:35:19.360 So for example, in the Olpasto sector, there was very 1:35:19.479 --> 1:35:22.160 very few deaths in twenty fourteen. The last couple of years, 1:35:22.200 --> 1:35:25.759 it's been the deadliest single small area in the entire border. 1:35:26.200 --> 1:35:29.000 And a lot of that was just because the border 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:31.519 has just become so militarized that even this like urban 1:35:31.600 --> 1:35:35.479 area where you know, people are dying a mile from town, 1:35:35.600 --> 1:35:37.960 people are dying in town. We I was part of 1:35:38.040 --> 1:35:41.000 the recovery where we this person was on a road, 1:35:41.520 --> 1:35:44.320 had been there for about three days dead. It was 1:35:44.360 --> 1:35:48.120 about forty feet from the busiest the busiest road in 1:35:48.160 --> 1:35:52.280 the entire town. Yeah, and that's just not something that 1:35:52.479 --> 1:35:56.120 really fits in with the ordinary narrative like Prevenual to 1:35:56.160 --> 1:35:58.519 de Terrance, people getting pushed out to these more remote areas, 1:35:59.080 --> 1:36:02.120 and I think just a level of militarization is just 1:36:02.240 --> 1:36:04.679 up to the level that it really is just deadly 1:36:04.880 --> 1:36:06.640 kind of. I mean even yea, all these deaths in 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:10.479 San Diego, as you know, also do so like all 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:13.639 these Walfall deaths are pretty much all since like twenty seventeen, 1:36:13.680 --> 1:36:16.560 we're even more recently so the construction of all this 1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:19.000 new border wall. You can point very directly to a 1:36:19.040 --> 1:36:19.800 huge amount. 1:36:19.520 --> 1:36:21.400 Of deaths just caused by walfalls. 1:36:21.680 --> 1:36:27.400 There's the canals in Imperial County and al Paso that 1:36:27.840 --> 1:36:30.559 there a huge amount of people. There's Alpasa right now 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:32.840 is in the process of revamping their whole canal system. 1:36:33.200 --> 1:36:34.120 Would be a great. 1:36:33.920 --> 1:36:37.120 Opportunity to add some sort of like safety systems in 1:36:37.160 --> 1:36:40.599 place so that people don't die. Yeah, it is all 1:36:40.680 --> 1:36:42.840 the pursue deaths which now are not just being caused 1:36:42.880 --> 1:36:46.040 the border patrol, but also like the Texas Department of 1:36:46.040 --> 1:36:49.760 Public Public Safety now that Operation Lone Star has helped up. 1:36:50.240 --> 1:36:52.880 There's all these things where the kinds of deaths and 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.680 the kinds of people dying and all that stuff has 1:36:56.960 --> 1:37:00.719 changed and increased really drastically in the last few years. 1:37:00.840 --> 1:37:02.720 And you can kind of point to a lot of them. 1:37:02.880 --> 1:37:05.519 But also it's like, yeah, I don't know, it's hard 1:37:05.720 --> 1:37:09.000 to really have any smart thoughts on it. Besides, just 1:37:09.320 --> 1:37:11.439 like boor control is underformable and. 1:37:11.560 --> 1:37:14.880 Just needs to be disbanded entire Yeah, and like this 1:37:15.080 --> 1:37:17.920 whole border regime, right, the whole idea of like an 1:37:18.000 --> 1:37:22.519 iron border that we enforce in a physical space. The 1:37:22.680 --> 1:37:25.360 point of it is to kill people, Like, the point 1:37:25.400 --> 1:37:30.040 of it is to hurt people by having perfectly innocent 1:37:30.200 --> 1:37:32.200 people who you'd be happy to have with your neighbor 1:37:32.360 --> 1:37:35.120 die in the desert. Like that's that is, that is 1:37:35.200 --> 1:37:37.840 the policy goal. Like I'm just looking, like I'm looking 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:40.360 at Pinto Canyon, which San Diego people will know it is, 1:37:40.439 --> 1:37:42.519 Like it's pretty like, don't if you're listening to this, 1:37:42.600 --> 1:37:45.280 don't go to Pinto Canyon. You might die. It's not 1:37:45.320 --> 1:37:47.720 a place to just go looking around if you're not 1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:50.960 experienced traveling out in the desert. But like, even Pinto 1:37:51.040 --> 1:37:54.559 Canyon is Gnali. But looking along the wall, the wall 1:37:54.640 --> 1:37:58.920 kills way more people than this rugged and difficult piece 1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:00.960 of terrain in the middle of now. Well, it's it's 1:38:01.840 --> 1:38:03.960 things that we have paid a lot of money for 1:38:04.160 --> 1:38:07.160 that kill the most people. And that's pretty brutal to confront. 1:38:18.439 --> 1:38:22.880 One of the other things that you guys were able 1:38:22.960 --> 1:38:25.719 to determine was that like a number of United States 1:38:25.880 --> 1:38:29.479 residents had died right in this data set. 1:38:29.640 --> 1:38:31.759 Yeah, can you explain that for people? 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:32.639 Totally? 1:38:32.760 --> 1:38:32.800 So? 1:38:33.000 --> 1:38:35.280 Yeah, Like you said, there's people you'd love to have 1:38:35.400 --> 1:38:38.360 as your neighbor dying in all these places, and not 1:38:38.560 --> 1:38:41.160 just that, but your actual neighbor. The amount of people 1:38:42.120 --> 1:38:45.599 whose main residence listed was just in San Diego County, 1:38:45.720 --> 1:38:51.400 in Oceanside, in Bakersfield and Indianapolis, places. 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:51.880 That we've all been to. 1:38:52.320 --> 1:38:55.519 Yeah, we were able to record for San Diego County 1:38:55.800 --> 1:38:58.920 and a few other counties a lot of where people 1:38:59.040 --> 1:39:03.360 actually lived in some of the circumstances for why they 1:39:03.400 --> 1:39:05.640 were crossing through the desert in the first place. A 1:39:05.720 --> 1:39:08.280 lot of it is people who are very recently deported, 1:39:08.640 --> 1:39:11.400 or who just traveled to Mexico because they had to 1:39:11.439 --> 1:39:14.680 get some paperwork done or wanted to visit family or 1:39:14.760 --> 1:39:17.559 things like this. Just had entire lives in the United 1:39:17.600 --> 1:39:20.400 States and then and then passed away on the way 1:39:20.439 --> 1:39:24.400 back ends of the country. Yeah, including I mean, it's 1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:26.760 really heartbreaking to even see. There's there's a lot of 1:39:26.840 --> 1:39:30.519 cases where the person who actually finds the body or 1:39:30.560 --> 1:39:34.000 recovers the body is not person's family members or their 1:39:34.240 --> 1:39:39.560 spouse or their children, even which only happens because you know, 1:39:39.640 --> 1:39:43.120 Board of Control is generally not that interested in recovering 1:39:43.160 --> 1:39:46.040 bodies or in looking for people who are lost. So 1:39:46.640 --> 1:39:50.040 often Yeah, often it will be yes, somebody's somebody's spouse 1:39:50.040 --> 1:39:52.240 who comes when when it is actually the first person 1:39:52.280 --> 1:39:52.719 on listening. 1:39:53.360 --> 1:39:58.200 Yeah, it's it's very common right for volunteers to be 1:39:58.280 --> 1:40:01.519 alerted VIO. You know, I know some of the certain 1:40:01.520 --> 1:40:04.320 rescue groups are alerted by like Instagram for instance, that 1:40:04.520 --> 1:40:07.800 like someone is missing. Right, It's not like there is 1:40:08.920 --> 1:40:13.240 like despite this being massively overfunded, you can't just call 1:40:13.320 --> 1:40:15.479 and they won't just send out an ambulance like a 1:40:15.520 --> 1:40:18.120 lot of a lot of times it is either the 1:40:18.240 --> 1:40:21.840 family members or like a bunch of volunteers just driving 1:40:21.880 --> 1:40:23.479 out there in the trucks the last night. Like I 1:40:23.560 --> 1:40:26.559 can remember in running into some migrants in like twenty 1:40:26.600 --> 1:40:28.280 twenty three and then being like, hey, there are some 1:40:28.400 --> 1:40:31.320 other people down there and I was like where, how 1:40:31.360 --> 1:40:33.120 do you know? And they found them on a snapchat 1:40:33.240 --> 1:40:36.200 mat wow, and like that that was you know, the 1:40:36.320 --> 1:40:39.679 only thing that maybe said those people's lives And yeah, 1:40:39.720 --> 1:40:42.559 it's pretty brutal to think that like there's still really 1:40:42.960 --> 1:40:44.680 there's no one where there are people you can call, 1:40:44.760 --> 1:40:46.120 I'm help you, But it's not the people who are 1:40:46.120 --> 1:40:50.040 getting billions of dollars. Let's talk very briefly before we 1:40:50.080 --> 1:40:52.519 finish up about desks outside of the United States. I 1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:56.120 see you have some data, Like obviously my familiarity is 1:40:57.080 --> 1:40:59.719 with the Daddy and GAP, which I could like getting. 1:41:00.200 --> 1:41:02.960 I don't think that data exists, but like, I see 1:41:03.000 --> 1:41:05.880 you have a number of data points within Mexico. Can 1:41:05.960 --> 1:41:08.120 you explain like how you came across service and to 1:41:08.200 --> 1:41:12.720 what extent that data is if a toll like representative 1:41:12.800 --> 1:41:13.280 or complete. 1:41:14.040 --> 1:41:16.800 Yeah, so it's not at all representative or complete. It 1:41:16.920 --> 1:41:20.120 all comes from the National Institute of Immigration, the. 1:41:20.360 --> 1:41:22.400 I and M in Mexico. 1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:23.120 Yeah. 1:41:23.640 --> 1:41:23.800 Two. 1:41:25.280 --> 1:41:28.880 Yes, the warder working people's data are they're like sort 1:41:28.920 --> 1:41:34.640 of like quotun cloth entertain and it were migrants instituted 1:41:34.720 --> 1:41:38.880 by the government of Mexico, New Mexico. And so we 1:41:39.680 --> 1:41:44.080 through the Mexicano Google Eployer, you're able to get data 1:41:44.240 --> 1:41:47.760 from the group of VETA, which throughout the years there's 1:41:47.840 --> 1:41:50.360 been kind of like changing locations of offices. 1:41:51.240 --> 1:41:54.200 So the data we have is just from where their 1:41:54.280 --> 1:41:55.840 offices are. 1:41:56.120 --> 1:41:58.080 So it's usually just sort of like a number of 1:41:58.200 --> 1:42:01.559 deaths for that particular office for that particular year. 1:42:01.760 --> 1:42:03.640 Yes, it's very very limited, and. 1:42:05.160 --> 1:42:09.960 There's many many, many deaths that we then have other 1:42:10.160 --> 1:42:13.040 data to show that doesn't exist here. 1:42:13.200 --> 1:42:14.760 So it's really just planet life. 1:42:15.400 --> 1:42:17.080 Yeah, it shouldn't be taken as any kind of like 1:42:17.160 --> 1:42:20.400 representative sample or it's goodly just the one piece of 1:42:21.160 --> 1:42:22.519 Mexican data that we were able to. 1:42:22.840 --> 1:42:23.800 Quickly put on the map. 1:42:24.040 --> 1:42:24.240 Yeah. 1:42:24.520 --> 1:42:26.679 We shod get other data. 1:42:26.640 --> 1:42:31.760 From my specific states in Mexico, but we through because 1:42:31.800 --> 1:42:34.760 of time and capacity and just the data itself, we 1:42:34.840 --> 1:42:37.280 were unable to turn back into that. 1:42:37.880 --> 1:42:40.720 Yeah, we wouldn't do something with that. 1:42:41.680 --> 1:42:44.200 Yeah, and I think it still remains true that like 1:42:44.320 --> 1:42:47.200 the single deadliest mine of this journey is the United 1:42:47.240 --> 1:42:52.639 States border, at least from this data that you're seeing. 1:42:52.680 --> 1:42:56.280 Did would you say this data still supports that probably? 1:42:56.800 --> 1:42:57.200 I don't know. 1:42:57.479 --> 1:43:01.880 Yeah, Yeah, I just don't want to say, because the 1:43:01.960 --> 1:43:03.880 data is just so bad in so many places, especially 1:43:03.880 --> 1:43:04.639 in Mexico abought. 1:43:04.960 --> 1:43:07.760 Yeah, I'm thinking of like the Daddy in right, Like 1:43:07.880 --> 1:43:12.960 it's it's very deadly. I've seen people die there, Like 1:43:14.160 --> 1:43:16.840 it's obviously a very very difficult and rugged place. But 1:43:16.920 --> 1:43:20.000 I think comparatively, probably more people die at the US border, 1:43:20.120 --> 1:43:24.400 just because there were more of them and because people 1:43:24.479 --> 1:43:27.080 come like people are Yeah, not everyone has to cross 1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:29.439 a dairy end. Like people can fly to Mexico or 1:43:30.040 --> 1:43:32.880 somewhere further south, right and then come up that way. 1:43:33.800 --> 1:43:36.400 Where if people want to find this data, or perhaps 1:43:36.439 --> 1:43:39.840 there's someone who's like a ninja with with data and 1:43:40.000 --> 1:43:42.240 data visualization and they want to offer to help, like 1:43:42.479 --> 1:43:44.519 where can people find this and how can they reach 1:43:44.560 --> 1:43:46.200 out to no more desks if they'd like to help 1:43:46.240 --> 1:43:46.760 in some way. 1:43:47.320 --> 1:43:49.439 Yeah, So just on the normal desk website you can 1:43:49.520 --> 1:43:51.880 see the report and the map and all that stuff. 1:43:52.120 --> 1:43:57.599 And in there there's a link to the media outreach email, 1:43:57.760 --> 1:44:00.280 which in the next couple of months is my email, 1:44:00.720 --> 1:44:04.679 and just Felker to send send an email there and yeah, 1:44:04.840 --> 1:44:08.360 happy to give greater accents. And right now the data 1:44:08.439 --> 1:44:14.160 is pretty anonymized for privacy and safety. Yeah, and there's 1:44:14.200 --> 1:44:16.200 a lot of the fields that we've kind of talked 1:44:16.200 --> 1:44:19.320 about that don't look here in the public database. So 1:44:19.520 --> 1:44:25.000 happy to share that with researchers, activists, advocacy people, journal. 1:44:24.760 --> 1:44:25.400 US and things like that. 1:44:25.720 --> 1:44:30.040 And also we desperately would out to help, so interested 1:44:30.080 --> 1:44:31.600 in looking at some spreadsheets? 1:44:31.920 --> 1:44:34.720 Yeah, yeah, cool, great, Thank you so much your time 1:44:34.800 --> 1:44:36.120 and for all the work on this I know this 1:44:36.280 --> 1:44:38.040 was a lot of work getting those records, and I 1:44:38.120 --> 1:44:40.800 think it I know it gives us something to point 1:44:40.840 --> 1:44:43.479 to to show how many people this this ball of 1:44:43.520 --> 1:44:44.960 shit is killing totally. 1:45:02.360 --> 1:45:05.240 This is it could happen here, a show about things 1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:08.960 falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis this episode. I'm joined by 1:45:09.080 --> 1:45:09.679 Mia Wong. 1:45:10.240 --> 1:45:10.439 Mia. 1:45:10.840 --> 1:45:12.719 I have some upsetting news. 1:45:13.040 --> 1:45:18.559 Oh no, which is frankly one of the best ways 1:45:18.600 --> 1:45:20.559 to start in this episode and one of the best 1:45:20.600 --> 1:45:24.040 ways to start the show. So I'm pretty sure that 1:45:24.240 --> 1:45:28.519 I found this account called, uh, let's see at Haill Hitler, 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:31.240 and I think he's posting some things that is a 1:45:31.400 --> 1:45:32.439 little bit fascist. 1:45:32.600 --> 1:45:33.080 Oh wow. 1:45:33.360 --> 1:45:37.400 I have decoded some of at Hell Hitler's communications and 1:45:37.560 --> 1:45:41.519 I have uncovered a secret a secret Nazi code. 1:45:42.760 --> 1:45:43.040 Wow. 1:45:43.439 --> 1:45:46.559 This is this is an incredibly unexpected revelation from Hailed Hitler. 1:45:47.040 --> 1:45:49.599 He has posted some pictures in like what I would 1:45:49.600 --> 1:45:52.439 assume is some kind of military uniform that looks like 1:45:52.520 --> 1:45:54.360 I don't know, it's it's some kind of like like 1:45:54.520 --> 1:45:58.719 Germanic military uniform. But I've noticed that there's some runes 1:45:59.000 --> 1:46:01.800 on this uniform, oh, that look very similar to the 1:46:01.880 --> 1:46:05.160 Odal rune. So I'm thinking because of the run, this 1:46:05.320 --> 1:46:05.960 guy might. 1:46:05.920 --> 1:46:06.519 Be a Nazi. 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:08.840 Thank you for your work, Erison. We can never have 1:46:08.960 --> 1:46:11.600 determined this, that's right, I am. You can find me 1:46:11.680 --> 1:46:19.120 at osen to Defender online and no that doesn't for 1:46:19.240 --> 1:46:22.080 us today, and it could happen here now. So this emisode, 1:46:22.120 --> 1:46:25.280 we're gonna talk about something that's been slowly frustrating me 1:46:25.400 --> 1:46:29.600 the past few weeks, and that is the misapplication of 1:46:29.720 --> 1:46:30.520 dog whistles. 1:46:31.360 --> 1:46:35.960 And let's just get right into it. People have been 1:46:36.280 --> 1:46:43.120 noticing patterns, noticing trends in official communications from the dhs 1:46:43.520 --> 1:46:46.880 gov online accounts, which now is the main way the 1:46:46.960 --> 1:46:53.080 government sends out communications unfortunately, especially on X the Everything app. 1:46:53.479 --> 1:46:56.720 But this, this extends outside of X the Everything after, 1:46:56.720 --> 1:47:00.400 this extends outside of Blue Sky the Internet in general. 1:47:00.640 --> 1:47:05.080 This is about how we understand the messaging of fascists 1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:10.000 and understand how rhetoric and anti fascist like education works 1:47:10.520 --> 1:47:13.280 and ways that I think it's currently being misapplied. 1:47:13.800 --> 1:47:14.960 So bear with me. 1:47:15.160 --> 1:47:18.519 This is gonna be kind of an odd episode, but 1:47:18.680 --> 1:47:21.760 I think I think it's worth it because I don't 1:47:21.800 --> 1:47:24.679 want us falling into the same traps that we maybe 1:47:24.760 --> 1:47:27.960 fell into eight years ago. So let's Let's let's start 1:47:28.000 --> 1:47:32.120 by talking about some communications posted on the internet by 1:47:32.200 --> 1:47:37.680 at DHS gov. A picture of a painting titled American 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:43.000 Progress by John Gast, captioned a heritage to be proud of, 1:47:43.520 --> 1:47:48.880 comma a homeland worth defending. So on the surface, you know, 1:47:49.160 --> 1:47:54.519 maybe a slightly hashtag problematic sentiment here with a hashtag 1:47:54.760 --> 1:47:57.919 problematic painting or at the very least of painting depicting 1:47:58.360 --> 1:48:02.840 the genocide of Native Americans and Indigenous people specifically with 1:48:03.000 --> 1:48:08.200 like a white supremacist outlook, with this enlarged white woman 1:48:08.439 --> 1:48:12.880 bathed in a white cloak, bringing forth that the tide 1:48:12.880 --> 1:48:17.040 of quote unquote progress as Indigenous people are are forced 1:48:17.640 --> 1:48:20.240 to flee from the edge of the painting. 1:48:20.720 --> 1:48:23.599 It's it's fun because this is a painting we literally 1:48:24.200 --> 1:48:28.040 when they had to explain manifest destiny like colonialism good. 1:48:28.240 --> 1:48:30.479 This is the painting that was in my textbook in 1:48:31.080 --> 1:48:34.080 high school. Is three class like and it is like 1:48:34.200 --> 1:48:37.920 the er, the er colonialism good, genocide good painting. 1:48:37.920 --> 1:48:42.080 Genocide good. That that's what the painting is. But what 1:48:42.280 --> 1:48:46.400 I have found through some hashtag research, there might be 1:48:46.439 --> 1:48:50.040 a hidden code in this in this communication from the 1:48:50.160 --> 1:48:53.880 DHS who already an agency that only has the best 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:57.400 interests and of really all people who strive for human rights, 1:48:57.479 --> 1:49:00.960 the DHS. So if you count all of the words 1:49:01.000 --> 1:49:02.560 in the tweet, guess how many words there are in 1:49:02.640 --> 1:49:07.480 this tweet? Mea fifteen no, so close, so close, fourteen 1:49:07.800 --> 1:49:12.280 fourteen words in this tweet, which might remind you of 1:49:12.880 --> 1:49:19.280 the fourteen words the Nazi signifier, which I probably just explain. 1:49:19.680 --> 1:49:22.439 Surely most people listening to this is familiar with the 1:49:22.479 --> 1:49:25.080 fourteen words, since it seems everybody thinks they are an 1:49:25.200 --> 1:49:31.280 armchair expert on fascist rhetoric. But the fourteen words we 1:49:31.800 --> 1:49:35.479 must secure the existence of our people and a future 1:49:35.640 --> 1:49:41.120 for white children. This became a popular hashtag dog whistle, 1:49:41.840 --> 1:49:46.559 especially in the past. I would say ten fifteen years, 1:49:47.600 --> 1:49:52.519 usually by implanting fourteen's and usually fourteen eighty eights with 1:49:52.680 --> 1:49:56.040 eighty eight meaning Hale Hitler because H is the eighth 1:49:56.160 --> 1:49:59.719 letter of the alphabet. This became a common Nazi tag. 1:50:00.080 --> 1:50:02.719 You could see this in graffiti, You see this embedded 1:50:02.800 --> 1:50:06.680 into into posts, see this in like Nazi artwork. And 1:50:07.439 --> 1:50:11.559 going back to this DHS post, we cannot only count 1:50:12.040 --> 1:50:15.280 fourteen words in this tweet. This is actually a fourteen 1:50:15.360 --> 1:50:19.560 eighty eight because two of the h's in this in 1:50:19.680 --> 1:50:24.280 this post are capitalized unusually, and that means hal Hitler 1:50:24.439 --> 1:50:26.080 Wow because hc eighth letter. 1:50:26.200 --> 1:50:26.760 Uh huh oh. 1:50:26.960 --> 1:50:30.040 But wait, actually looking at this post again, there's actually 1:50:30.200 --> 1:50:33.760 other words in this tweet that are also unusually capitalized. 1:50:33.800 --> 1:50:34.439 But don't worry. 1:50:34.439 --> 1:50:34.880 Don't worry. 1:50:35.200 --> 1:50:38.000 This is still a dog whistle because those other words 1:50:38.040 --> 1:50:40.800 that are capitalized in the first sentence are the letters 1:50:40.880 --> 1:50:44.519 A and D, which if you convert those into numbers, 1:50:45.040 --> 1:50:47.839 are one in four, so it's actually another fourteen. 1:50:48.640 --> 1:50:52.640 Oh wow, we're doing we're doing numerology. We're doing jamatria, 1:50:52.800 --> 1:50:55.960 where we've become q and on. We're so back. 1:50:56.720 --> 1:50:59.880 So if you cannot tell by my, my, my thinly 1:51:00.080 --> 1:51:05.120 veiled sarcasm in that last section, I think this methodology 1:51:05.200 --> 1:51:06.080 is a little bit silly. 1:51:06.760 --> 1:51:07.360 What are we doing? 1:51:07.479 --> 1:51:08.160 What are we doing here? 1:51:08.200 --> 1:51:11.320 We're converting capitalized letters in the first half of a 1:51:11.479 --> 1:51:14.800 tweet into numbers and then rearranging the order of those 1:51:14.880 --> 1:51:17.640 letters to get a fourteen eighty eight it's literally jerbatria, 1:51:17.680 --> 1:51:21.200 and then also counting the total words in the whole 1:51:21.320 --> 1:51:25.000 suite while still disregarding the capitalizations in the last four 1:51:25.120 --> 1:51:29.320 words for another fourteen What are we doing? How is 1:51:29.400 --> 1:51:32.240 this the piece of evidence that sinks sinks the Trump 1:51:32.240 --> 1:51:36.040 administration and finally proves that they're fascist. You can just 1:51:36.200 --> 1:51:39.280 look at all of the fascist policies the Trump administration 1:51:39.520 --> 1:51:44.479 is enacting. Instead of doing numerology on tweets, people are thinking, 1:51:44.600 --> 1:51:48.360 ha ha ha ha, I have decoded the secret Nazi 1:51:48.439 --> 1:51:56.080 message with AHHD one eight eight fourteen. Nice trigroipers. Meanwhile, 1:51:56.400 --> 1:51:59.280 you can just look at the actual text of the post. 1:51:59.439 --> 1:52:02.360 You can look at the painting. Both of those things 1:52:02.479 --> 1:52:07.240 have an inherent fascist quality. It's literally defending the concept 1:52:07.320 --> 1:52:13.400 of ethnic genocide, of manifest destiny. While the administration, the 1:52:13.520 --> 1:52:17.200 DHS is currently furthering as no nationalist policies. 1:52:17.520 --> 1:52:20.720 They are doing this. This is homeland security, right. I 1:52:20.760 --> 1:52:22.760 don't know if people realize that ICE is a part 1:52:22.800 --> 1:52:25.640 of homeland security, but like, this is the agency that 1:52:25.800 --> 1:52:28.639 is literally rounding people up and sending them to camps. 1:52:28.760 --> 1:52:31.960 We have camps in multiple countries. Now what I say, 1:52:32.000 --> 1:52:34.440 they're being round up and sent to camps. It's genuinely 1:52:34.560 --> 1:52:37.799 unclear whether what I'm talking about is the fucking concentration camp. 1:52:37.680 --> 1:52:39.920 In Florida see cot In nol Salvador. 1:52:40.200 --> 1:52:42.799 Yeah, I mean I think I think people have now escaped, 1:52:42.840 --> 1:52:46.559 so I can't technically call the Honduras want a death camp. 1:52:46.600 --> 1:52:48.280 But like again there's sending people to South u Dan, 1:52:48.360 --> 1:52:52.560 They're like, they're just doing this, Like what are we 1:52:52.640 --> 1:52:53.080 doing here? 1:52:53.920 --> 1:52:57.840 So this episode I want to focus on how people 1:52:57.960 --> 1:53:01.320 are misusing anti fascist edge, or I would argue they're 1:53:01.320 --> 1:53:04.639 misusing anti fascist education and kind of missing the forest 1:53:04.880 --> 1:53:09.679 for a cardboard cutout of trees, not even trees, kind 1:53:09.720 --> 1:53:11.840 of something that could be a tree if you look 1:53:11.880 --> 1:53:14.960 at it from one angle, but maybe isn't actually a 1:53:15.040 --> 1:53:18.120 real tree. And you don't need to sound like a 1:53:18.200 --> 1:53:21.639 Da Vinci Code conspiracy theorist to point out the obvious, 1:53:22.080 --> 1:53:27.040 like dog whistles don't matter if the regular whistle is 1:53:27.240 --> 1:53:32.200 already fascist. If they're just saying things openly and furthermore 1:53:32.400 --> 1:53:37.439 doing things, what purpose does a dog whistle haen? And 1:53:37.560 --> 1:53:40.200 this is something that we're going to discuss. Are not 1:53:40.439 --> 1:53:43.040 just saying this and closing the episode, We're going to 1:53:43.080 --> 1:53:47.080 get into these And I think part of what's happening 1:53:47.439 --> 1:53:52.680 here everybody is so cooked by the paranoid style of 1:53:52.800 --> 1:53:58.759 American politics. Everyone is so eager to decode the hidden 1:53:58.840 --> 1:54:01.800 messages that we're missing what's right in front of us. 1:54:02.640 --> 1:54:07.040 QAnon has a total victory. Qwanon does not really exist 1:54:07.280 --> 1:54:09.720 in the way that it did in twenty eighteen. That 1:54:09.960 --> 1:54:13.439 the q Andon cult conspiracy theory as like a singular 1:54:14.120 --> 1:54:17.679 cultish project is kind of no more. But q Andon 1:54:17.760 --> 1:54:20.960 has a cultural victory over the entire United States, and 1:54:21.080 --> 1:54:23.000 not just on the right wing, not just on Mega. 1:54:23.640 --> 1:54:24.160 So much of. 1:54:24.160 --> 1:54:27.960 American politics now is litigating who is and is not 1:54:28.080 --> 1:54:31.599 a pedophile, who is and is not trafficking children, who 1:54:31.720 --> 1:54:36.120 can notice which events are staged, who can notice hidden codes, 1:54:36.160 --> 1:54:39.280 who can decode anonymous messages on the Internet, And this 1:54:39.520 --> 1:54:43.920 is what like everything is. And like the real turning 1:54:43.960 --> 1:54:46.920 point I think for the right wing was probably the 1:54:46.960 --> 1:54:50.400 twenty twenty election in like a massive fracture from reality 1:54:50.680 --> 1:54:53.200 in which they think that election was legitimately stolen. And 1:54:53.240 --> 1:54:55.640 obviously there was many events leading up to that which 1:54:55.680 --> 1:54:57.840 contributed to this. Yeah, and I think one of the 1:54:57.880 --> 1:55:02.000 biggest fracture points for liberal was the attempted assassination of 1:55:02.040 --> 1:55:05.640 Donald Trump, with people creating whole new alternate realities that 1:55:05.760 --> 1:55:08.160 that event was staged and because that door is opened. 1:55:08.520 --> 1:55:11.040 Now I am seeing such a massive flood of things 1:55:11.080 --> 1:55:13.720 that I would label as bluing on conspiracy theories, which 1:55:13.760 --> 1:55:16.120 is kind of a nonsense term, but it gets the 1:55:16.160 --> 1:55:19.080 point across. And gonna do a whole piece on bluing 1:55:19.160 --> 1:55:21.640 on very soon. I've been collecting blueing on conspiracy theories 1:55:21.680 --> 1:55:23.680 for a while, but I want to do something specifically 1:55:23.720 --> 1:55:26.400 about this fourteen eighty eight and like secret codes thing, 1:55:26.880 --> 1:55:31.560 because it's so evocative of like, you know, Q drops, 1:55:31.920 --> 1:55:35.560 and it's evocative of, you know, searching for Masonic codes, 1:55:35.720 --> 1:55:40.320 something that American conspiracy theorists have been doing for generations. 1:55:41.000 --> 1:55:43.440 And we're to talk about that more and read a 1:55:43.480 --> 1:55:47.240 little bit of an essay on that topic after this 1:55:47.400 --> 1:55:50.000 ad break, and I will let you know there's gonna 1:55:50.000 --> 1:55:52.160 be two messages in the ad break that if you decode, 1:55:52.440 --> 1:55:54.600 you win a special prize at the end of the episode, 1:55:54.720 --> 1:55:57.480 So make sure you listen to every single second of 1:55:57.560 --> 1:56:10.120 the ad in case you miss the code. Okay, we 1:56:10.560 --> 1:56:15.960 are back, speaking of the paranoid style in American politics. 1:56:16.040 --> 1:56:18.680 I want to quote a few sections to kind of 1:56:18.760 --> 1:56:21.880 frame what I'm talking about here. This was an essay 1:56:21.960 --> 1:56:29.839 written in the sixties by Richard hoff Setter Hofstetter Richard 1:56:29.920 --> 1:56:35.520 Hoffstetter one of the first like modern pieces on American 1:56:35.680 --> 1:56:39.880 conspiracy culture and politics. I'm gonna I have three paragraphs 1:56:39.880 --> 1:56:42.360 here that I that I selected as as being relevant 1:56:42.400 --> 1:56:45.160 to the current the current topic at hand. 1:56:45.320 --> 1:56:45.640 Quote. 1:56:46.240 --> 1:56:48.280 There is a style of mind that is far from 1:56:48.400 --> 1:56:52.240 new and that is not necessarily right wing. I call 1:56:52.280 --> 1:56:55.720 it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately 1:56:55.760 --> 1:57:00.600 evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratory fantasy 1:57:00.680 --> 1:57:03.680 that I have in mind. Nothing really prevents a sound 1:57:03.800 --> 1:57:07.320 program or demand from being advocated in the paranoid style. 1:57:07.920 --> 1:57:10.640 Style has more to do with the way in which 1:57:10.840 --> 1:57:15.000 ideas are believed than with the truth or falsity of 1:57:15.080 --> 1:57:15.800 their content. 1:57:16.400 --> 1:57:16.879 Unquote. 1:57:17.160 --> 1:57:20.160 And I like that section specifically because fourteen eighty eight 1:57:20.280 --> 1:57:23.480 is a real dog whistle. We can see this used. 1:57:23.840 --> 1:57:26.720 There's aspects of people who are trying to search for 1:57:26.880 --> 1:57:31.040 this and trying to search for patterns in the communications 1:57:31.120 --> 1:57:35.520 of an admittedly fascistic government agency that I find like sympathetic, 1:57:35.600 --> 1:57:38.680 like I can under I can understand because yeah, that 1:57:38.840 --> 1:57:40.840 is a real dog whistle. I'm going to continue the 1:57:40.920 --> 1:57:44.440 quote quote the paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy 1:57:44.640 --> 1:57:48.200 in apocalyptic terms. He traffics in the birth and death 1:57:48.280 --> 1:57:52.879 of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. 1:57:53.360 --> 1:57:57.560 He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly 1:57:57.600 --> 1:58:00.560 lives at a turning point, like religious millinery. Now he 1:58:00.640 --> 1:58:03.400 expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the 1:58:03.520 --> 1:58:07.520 last days, and he is sometimes disposed to set a 1:58:07.680 --> 1:58:11.280 date for the apocalypse. As a member of the avant 1:58:11.320 --> 1:58:14.600 garde who is capable of perceiving the conspiracy before it 1:58:14.720 --> 1:58:17.720 is fully obvious to it. As of yet to unaroused public, 1:58:18.160 --> 1:58:22.240 the paranoid is a militant leader. Demand for total triumph 1:58:22.600 --> 1:58:27.200 leads to the formulation of hopelessly unrealistic goals, and since 1:58:27.480 --> 1:58:31.760 these goals are not even remotely attainable, failure constantly heightens 1:58:31.840 --> 1:58:36.960 the paranoid's sense of frustration. Unquote, Hofstetter is talking about 1:58:37.000 --> 1:58:39.680 something that that me and Robert specifically have have have 1:58:39.800 --> 1:58:43.480 discussed a lot on this show before. How everyone in 1:58:43.600 --> 1:58:47.680 America wants to have access to secret information m h. 1:58:48.800 --> 1:58:52.560 Everyone wants to have the exclusive piece of secret intel 1:58:52.880 --> 1:58:55.960 that will solve everything, and like having having that like 1:58:56.120 --> 1:59:01.160 informational exclusivity in a world of information saturation, right of 1:59:01.200 --> 1:59:05.200 a vortex of like meaningless noise. It's such a romantic 1:59:05.320 --> 1:59:08.360 idea that that I alone have the info or the 1:59:08.480 --> 1:59:12.440 clue to pieces together, and it's my duty to inform 1:59:12.520 --> 1:59:16.840 the masses. It's a very romantic notion, and it's also 1:59:16.920 --> 1:59:22.080 one that is exactly perfectly anti suited for the moment 1:59:22.160 --> 1:59:25.240 we live in, which is actually just a moment where 1:59:25.280 --> 1:59:28.360 everything that is happening is just so clearingly literal, like 1:59:28.560 --> 1:59:30.920 it's all out of the Oden, like what is happening 1:59:30.960 --> 1:59:33.400 with the Trump administration. Okay, In twenty twenty, there is 1:59:33.440 --> 1:59:37.520 a massive uprising to attempt to attempt to fundamentally change 1:59:38.240 --> 1:59:41.160 like the structurally racist nature of the United States, to 1:59:41.280 --> 1:59:43.840 deal with its fucking class inequalities, to deal with the 1:59:43.880 --> 1:59:47.560 structural violence of the state. This was reacted to by 1:59:47.600 --> 1:59:50.520 a massive fascist movement that spent half a decade gaining 1:59:50.600 --> 1:59:53.760 power and then finally took power in the form of 1:59:54.040 --> 1:59:57.600 like a bunch of pissed off petite bourgeois fucking car 1:59:57.720 --> 2:00:02.040 dealers and like literally a billionaire real estate mogul backed 2:00:02.080 --> 2:00:04.760 by the richest tech company guy in the world right, 2:00:04.840 --> 2:00:08.000 and they came together to build fascism. This is the 2:00:08.200 --> 2:00:14.160 most straightforward, like if this is a conception of how 2:00:14.280 --> 2:00:19.040 a fascist takeover works that is so thuddingly literal that 2:00:19.280 --> 2:00:24.280 it defies narrativization because it's just there. There's no subtlety 2:00:24.360 --> 2:00:26.120 to it. They're just saying it. They just want to 2:00:26.200 --> 2:00:28.960 do it, and they're doing it. But everyone is convinced 2:00:28.960 --> 2:00:31.000 that there's like some kind of secret hitting conspiracy and 2:00:31.040 --> 2:00:34.000 it's like, no, they're just doing the thing that they're saying. Yeah, 2:00:34.400 --> 2:00:38.160 you can argue that we have a griper occupied government 2:00:38.840 --> 2:00:43.200 not because of counting words and posts, but because of 2:00:43.320 --> 2:00:46.320 not only who they're bringing on for DOGE, but literally 2:00:46.400 --> 2:00:49.080 Ice in DHS as of today, which I'm recording this 2:00:49.200 --> 2:00:51.120 on Wednesday, I think, because this comes out Wednesday night, 2:00:51.520 --> 2:00:55.160 are copying like Patriot Front style tactics of loading up 2:00:55.200 --> 2:00:59.440 ICE agents in U haul style rentable trucks to do 2:00:59.640 --> 2:01:03.200 hunt down people to assault and kidnap, like they're just 2:01:03.320 --> 2:01:07.600 copying the Patriot Front playbook. Here the ICE director said 2:01:07.640 --> 2:01:11.640 that he wants an Amazon like mass deportation system, calling 2:01:11.640 --> 2:01:15.840 it quote unquote Amazon Prime, but with human beings. They're 2:01:15.880 --> 2:01:20.560 saying this, you can say, listen to the actual words. 2:01:20.880 --> 2:01:23.920 I'm going to read another quote here from the Paranoid 2:01:23.920 --> 2:01:27.920 Style of American Politics essay quote. A final characteristic of 2:01:27.960 --> 2:01:31.560 the paranoid style is related to the quality of its pedantry. 2:01:31.960 --> 2:01:34.680 One of the impressive things about paranoid literature is the 2:01:34.720 --> 2:01:39.480 contrast between its fantasized conclusions and the almost touching concern 2:01:39.680 --> 2:01:44.640 with factuality it invariably shows. It produces heroic strivings for 2:01:44.720 --> 2:01:47.440 evidence to prove that the unbelievable is the only thing 2:01:47.520 --> 2:01:52.280 that can be believed respectable. Paranoid literature not only starts 2:01:52.320 --> 2:01:56.120 from certain mortal commitments that can indeed be justified, but 2:01:56.360 --> 2:02:01.600 also carefully and all but obsessively accumulates unquote evidence. The 2:02:01.680 --> 2:02:06.480 paranoid seems to have little expectation for actually convincing a 2:02:06.600 --> 2:02:09.960 hostile world, but he can accumulate evidence in order to 2:02:10.040 --> 2:02:15.120 protect his cherished convictions from it unquote. And I think 2:02:15.200 --> 2:02:18.320 that gets into the psychological mechanisms on why people are 2:02:18.440 --> 2:02:22.120 doing this Nazi code hunting. It's actually a form of 2:02:22.360 --> 2:02:26.280 self coping. Looking at the horrific state of the federal government, 2:02:26.440 --> 2:02:29.880 looking at the brazenness in which ICE is operating, and 2:02:30.120 --> 2:02:33.000 this is a self preservation mechanism. Someone on Blue Sky 2:02:33.080 --> 2:02:34.880 that I was talking to about this is like arguing, 2:02:34.960 --> 2:02:37.560 like ICE doesn't need to dog whistle, they have no 2:02:37.720 --> 2:02:38.160 reason to. 2:02:38.440 --> 2:02:38.480 Like. 2:02:38.560 --> 2:02:42.320 Dog whistling is for trying to like sneakily get racists 2:02:42.400 --> 2:02:46.440 or fascists into power while signaling to a nationalistic base 2:02:46.760 --> 2:02:49.560 that they are like one of them. Right, But these 2:02:49.600 --> 2:02:52.680 guys are already in power, and the base already knows 2:02:52.720 --> 2:02:55.640 that they're in power. There's no point in dog whistling. 2:02:56.080 --> 2:02:58.920 They're just using ICE to establish an ethno state. They're 2:02:59.000 --> 2:03:02.800 using explicit ethno state rhetoric. In a post from this 2:03:03.000 --> 2:03:06.520 morning which has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, 2:03:06.600 --> 2:03:11.520 eight nine ten words not fourteen ten words, Wow, DHS 2:03:11.600 --> 2:03:16.800 said quote, serve your country, Defend your culture, no undergraduate 2:03:16.880 --> 2:03:21.040 degree required. Defend your culture. It's not about locking up 2:03:21.080 --> 2:03:25.040 criminal migrants. It's about defending a culture from its destruction 2:03:25.280 --> 2:03:30.000 through ethnic demographic shifts. It's they're not trying to obscure 2:03:30.160 --> 2:03:32.880 what they're doing. In the slightest No, And I want 2:03:32.880 --> 2:03:35.640 to return to something else that the Hofstater said that 2:03:35.720 --> 2:03:37.560 in that second paragraph that you read about how like 2:03:38.560 --> 2:03:40.800 one of the central conceits is that, like, you know, 2:03:40.880 --> 2:03:43.440 there's this giant conspiracy that's being unleashed and the American 2:03:43.440 --> 2:03:46.720 public doesn't know anything about it, and like, yeah, you can. 2:03:46.880 --> 2:03:49.080 You know, it is distressing to a large extent, the 2:03:49.080 --> 2:03:51.680 extent to which people just don't know what the government 2:03:51.760 --> 2:03:54.440 is doing. But also like if you look at any 2:03:54.760 --> 2:03:57.680 pulling at all, but anything these people are doing, everyone 2:03:57.760 --> 2:04:00.320 hates it. There isn't like a secret thing you can 2:04:00.360 --> 2:04:02.240 say to convince people that they're that all these people 2:04:02.280 --> 2:04:04.800 are Nazis, because it's like and that's not even a 2:04:04.840 --> 2:04:08.200 particularly useful project because everyone fucking hates them already, Like 2:04:08.320 --> 2:04:10.680 trying to fight this in the realm of sort of 2:04:11.040 --> 2:04:14.080 the accumulation of the evidence of conspiracy instead of in 2:04:14.200 --> 2:04:17.480 the realm of like, hi, i'm your neighbor, you also. 2:04:17.360 --> 2:04:20.240 Fucking hate this. Let's go fucking like do they shoul 2:04:20.240 --> 2:04:22.400 people are doing in la and like follow these fucking 2:04:22.440 --> 2:04:26.560 ice fans around, right, That is stuff that people are doing, 2:04:27.360 --> 2:04:31.919 but it doesn't have the kind of like instant emotional 2:04:32.000 --> 2:04:36.160 gratification and register of trying to like accumulate hordes of 2:04:36.200 --> 2:04:39.440 secret knowledge, so people do it less even though it's 2:04:39.480 --> 2:04:40.080 less effective. 2:04:40.640 --> 2:04:44.160 In my discussion of this, like online on various cursed 2:04:44.280 --> 2:04:46.840 social media sites, I've gotten a lot of pushback to 2:04:46.960 --> 2:04:51.400 my pushback of these tactics and what I what I 2:04:51.480 --> 2:04:54.720 see as a sort of like abuse of anti fascist education, 2:04:54.880 --> 2:04:58.160 right because people, you know, Robert Evans, myself, you know, 2:04:58.280 --> 2:05:01.920 Molly Conger, spent the past eight years trying to actually, 2:05:02.040 --> 2:05:04.920 you know, educate people about like Nazi rhetoric, like in 2:05:04.960 --> 2:05:08.440 like Nazi signals and dog whistles, right, and as an 2:05:08.480 --> 2:05:13.160 attempt to hopefully prevent them from expanding their power. And 2:05:14.280 --> 2:05:16.800 we may have succeeded in education, but we may have 2:05:17.040 --> 2:05:19.360 failed in the prevention. 2:05:20.880 --> 2:05:22.160 Of them seizing power. 2:05:22.560 --> 2:05:25.080 And that also makes me kind of question the effectiveness 2:05:25.120 --> 2:05:28.600 of certain tactics. And it's now very odd to see 2:05:28.920 --> 2:05:31.880 things that we you know, argued for visibility around to 2:05:32.000 --> 2:05:35.640 kind of be used in ways that don't really make sense. 2:05:35.680 --> 2:05:38.480 That it's it's it's kind of like trying to tame 2:05:38.480 --> 2:05:43.120 a monster that you've partially created. And it's so frustrating 2:05:43.200 --> 2:05:45.560 to me because I mean, one person who I was 2:05:46.120 --> 2:05:49.360 lightly arguing about the line was saying, like, this is 2:05:49.480 --> 2:05:53.120 not numerology, and we don't have to be just okay 2:05:53.680 --> 2:05:58.240 with a clear attempt to normalize white nationalist rhetoric. And like, 2:05:58.320 --> 2:06:02.560 first of all, like codes aren't rhetoric, codes or codes, 2:06:03.320 --> 2:06:06.400 And the textual fascist sentence. 2:06:06.240 --> 2:06:06.880 Is the rhetoric. 2:06:07.440 --> 2:06:10.360 What they're actually like saying, which which has like proto 2:06:10.400 --> 2:06:14.320 fascist or fascistic aspects, That is the rhetoric and they're 2:06:14.680 --> 2:06:18.600 doing it. Is there somebody out there in twenty twenty 2:06:18.680 --> 2:06:22.360 five who's gonna finally realize that DHS as an agency 2:06:22.480 --> 2:06:26.600 has fascistic underpinnings via a chronically online Twitter user explaining 2:06:26.680 --> 2:06:29.320 that if you count words and turn certain captize letters 2:06:29.360 --> 2:06:33.000 into numbers, it makes a secret Nazi message. Is there 2:06:33.040 --> 2:06:35.400 one person is going to become convinced to us, No, 2:06:36.240 --> 2:06:38.800 that's not the purpose. So trying to conceptionize this is 2:06:38.840 --> 2:06:40.920 like we have to we have to make sure we 2:06:41.320 --> 2:06:45.280 call out the use of Nazi rhetoric that doesn't apply 2:06:45.440 --> 2:06:47.680 to this specific thing that we're talking about. 2:06:48.200 --> 2:06:50.160 Yeah, and also like I think, you know, like I 2:06:50.920 --> 2:06:52.960 think we sort of kind of just to some extent, 2:06:53.000 --> 2:06:55.480 we've just failed on the normalization from it because again, 2:06:55.640 --> 2:06:58.080 like it's the president of the United States. Yeah, this 2:06:58.240 --> 2:07:01.560 is the official account of the Department of Homeland Security. 2:07:01.680 --> 2:07:04.000 It has already become normalized because they have power. The 2:07:04.040 --> 2:07:06.920 only way to denormalize it is not actually to do 2:07:07.120 --> 2:07:11.520 media critique. It's to like actually oppose them. But that's scary, 2:07:11.840 --> 2:07:12.280 that's scary. 2:07:12.400 --> 2:07:15.640 Repet Marybia, do you know what's easy posting on X 2:07:15.720 --> 2:07:16.800 the everything app Yeah. 2:07:16.880 --> 2:07:21.080 This is how this kind of conspiratorial worldview actually empowers 2:07:21.120 --> 2:07:25.320 the state, because the central conceit of the conspiratorial worldview 2:07:25.480 --> 2:07:28.080 is that there is a nearly all powerful agency that 2:07:28.240 --> 2:07:32.000 controls in apparatus that enables it to basically control any 2:07:32.040 --> 2:07:33.720 events that it wants. Right, this is why I can 2:07:33.800 --> 2:07:35.600 stage things, this is why I can recollection. This is 2:07:35.680 --> 2:07:37.960 why it can like I don't know, like it can 2:07:38.120 --> 2:07:41.880 just like magically like disappear anyone. It can replace them 2:07:41.920 --> 2:07:44.880 with anyone. It can stage any protest movement it wants 2:07:44.920 --> 2:07:48.200 to right. And I think you've seen this a lot 2:07:48.240 --> 2:07:50.320 in the American case, where like I see people who 2:07:50.400 --> 2:07:52.840 are like genuinely well meaning leftists who are convinced that 2:07:52.920 --> 2:07:54.600 if you do anything to resist the American State, you 2:07:54.600 --> 2:07:57.400 will immediately be killed because the American state is all 2:07:57.480 --> 2:08:01.040 powerful and irresistible. And that's just fast just propaganda. Yeah, 2:08:01.080 --> 2:08:03.560 you're falling victim to the panoptic house. Yeah, but but 2:08:03.840 --> 2:08:07.240 it's it's fascist propaganda that fits into the narrative structure 2:08:07.880 --> 2:08:12.480 of conspiracy. And because the state is dangerous, right and 2:08:12.720 --> 2:08:15.520 can hurt you, it's very very easy to you know, 2:08:15.640 --> 2:08:18.760 accumulate structures of evidence that support the emotional sort of 2:08:19.000 --> 2:08:22.800 core of this thing that is just literally fascist propaganda. 2:08:22.840 --> 2:08:25.600 People are resisting the state every day, right, Why is 2:08:25.680 --> 2:08:29.040 ICE fucking doing patriot prayer tactics and fucking like hiding 2:08:29.120 --> 2:08:31.840 people in like fucking U hauls to jump out and 2:08:31.880 --> 2:08:33.920 grab people. It's because when they tried to fucking mass 2:08:34.000 --> 2:08:36.880 we stomped them, right. And when they drive around in 2:08:37.120 --> 2:08:38.920 their cars and you can see them through the window, 2:08:39.040 --> 2:08:41.600 everyone follows them. People can follow them around and alert 2:08:41.680 --> 2:08:44.839 their community members on where ICE is. Like again, mother 2:08:44.920 --> 2:08:48.640 motherfuckers and fucking Lulu Levin shit are like screaming at 2:08:48.680 --> 2:08:50.840 ICE agents when they try to arrest people, like yeah, 2:08:50.880 --> 2:08:54.480 that's the actual condition we're in, and like we get 2:08:54.520 --> 2:08:55.200 regular people. 2:08:55.480 --> 2:08:57.200 And that's why I find some people who would be 2:08:57.240 --> 2:08:59.880 you know, self described as like anti fascists or selfist 2:09:00.000 --> 2:09:04.200 described as leftists almost falling into this trap like more 2:09:04.280 --> 2:09:06.880 so than others. And it's a little bit evident of 2:09:07.000 --> 2:09:10.120 something that like I've described as like the forever twenty sixteen, 2:09:10.240 --> 2:09:12.720 how we're all kind of stuck in the mindset of 2:09:12.800 --> 2:09:16.160 this twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen era and where 2:09:16.160 --> 2:09:19.000 we have this unwillingness to realize that that's not the 2:09:19.160 --> 2:09:22.520 political situation on the ground anymore. We are actually not 2:09:22.800 --> 2:09:26.360 in Charlottesville. This is a different situation. This is twenty 2:09:26.400 --> 2:09:29.960 twenty five. And one other like defense of this, you know, 2:09:30.200 --> 2:09:34.200 code hunting that I've seen people say is, quote, Nazis 2:09:34.240 --> 2:09:36.720 love playing games like this, so it's important that we 2:09:36.920 --> 2:09:40.360 call it out. And another person saying, quote, this is 2:09:40.440 --> 2:09:42.680 a fun little game for their group chats while they 2:09:42.800 --> 2:09:45.520 kill and disappear people, unquote, and like, first of all, 2:09:46.120 --> 2:09:50.000 this is not a game. This is actual people's lives 2:09:50.240 --> 2:09:52.680 are who are being deported, who are being sent to 2:09:52.920 --> 2:09:55.840 foreign prison camps. These are not games. And and I 2:09:55.920 --> 2:10:00.360 think that view of like anti fascist like education risks 2:10:00.480 --> 2:10:04.480 repeating like the Okay symbol debacle right where dog whistles 2:10:04.560 --> 2:10:07.600 end up being created or spread further due to this 2:10:07.800 --> 2:10:11.880 gamified version of like Easter egg anti fascism, It's kind 2:10:11.880 --> 2:10:14.360 of like the Barber streisand effect where you end up 2:10:14.480 --> 2:10:18.879 almost accidentally making them start doing the thing, which Nazis 2:10:18.880 --> 2:10:23.120 always have that like frustrating impulse because they're the little 2:10:23.160 --> 2:10:26.480 bitch boy ideology. I think as a rat, Limit put 2:10:26.520 --> 2:10:29.120 it one of one of my favorite posters, and like, 2:10:29.400 --> 2:10:32.600 I'm not saying that Nazi signposting should be ignored, but 2:10:32.680 --> 2:10:36.000 I think we should be thoughtful and careful of how 2:10:36.040 --> 2:10:38.840 we do it. To recap the Okay symbol thing that 2:10:39.000 --> 2:10:41.960 was invented as like a fake dog whistle to try 2:10:42.000 --> 2:10:45.760 to trick leftists into convincing like the media, and had 2:10:45.800 --> 2:10:47.680 then having the media trying to convinceate with people that 2:10:47.800 --> 2:10:51.320 anyone who uses like the okayhand symbol is secretly a fascist. 2:10:51.600 --> 2:10:55.640 And this scheme worked, and eventually the Oka symbol became 2:10:55.680 --> 2:10:58.800 an actual symbol used for fascists to identify each other 2:10:59.040 --> 2:11:02.640 through this ironic attachment because it was being talked about 2:11:02.680 --> 2:11:04.680 in the news as a secret Nazi symbol, even though 2:11:04.720 --> 2:11:07.520 this whole thing was like invented as like a joke online. 2:11:08.880 --> 2:11:11.920 And I'm afraid I've started to already see a similar 2:11:12.000 --> 2:11:14.840 thing happen with the fourteen words dog whistle, with an 2:11:15.040 --> 2:11:18.879 increased use of the fourteen words and invoking the fourteen 2:11:18.960 --> 2:11:23.040 words among far right accounts, specifically because of this whole 2:11:23.200 --> 2:11:27.600 debacle with the DHS gov account and there a heritage 2:11:27.760 --> 2:11:31.360 to be proud of, homeland worth defending American Progress like 2:11:31.400 --> 2:11:36.480 ethnonationalist posting. And I truly cannot say one way or 2:11:36.520 --> 2:11:42.120 another if that American Progress post had a intentionally embedded 2:11:42.480 --> 2:11:46.520 fourteen words dog whistle inside, I can't. I can't tell 2:11:46.600 --> 2:11:48.760 you that. And the point trying to make is that 2:11:49.400 --> 2:11:53.880 it kind of doesn't matter, but the way we talk 2:11:53.960 --> 2:11:57.000 about dog whistles does matter. And as frustrating as it 2:11:57.160 --> 2:11:59.440 is that sometimes this feels like we're just living in 2:11:59.480 --> 2:12:01.880 the meme where where the Nazi starts shaving his head 2:12:01.920 --> 2:12:06.959 because everyone's calling him a Nazi, that is how Nazis 2:12:07.160 --> 2:12:09.600 work sometimes. And I don't want to play into this 2:12:09.880 --> 2:12:14.040 attention spectacle that they so badly want. But you know 2:12:14.120 --> 2:12:14.920 what I do want right now? 2:12:15.200 --> 2:12:17.200 Is it the process and services that support this podcast. 2:12:17.480 --> 2:12:20.880 Another ad break, that's right, be sure to listen for 2:12:21.160 --> 2:12:24.640 the third and fourth hidden clue in these ads. 2:12:35.640 --> 2:12:37.320 All right, we are back to. 2:12:37.400 --> 2:12:39.480 Briefly take a small tangent here. I think there was 2:12:39.520 --> 2:12:42.720 something very important about like the fact that role stuck 2:12:42.760 --> 2:12:44.920 in twenty sixteen, which was sort of like the peak 2:12:44.960 --> 2:12:47.760 of irony right as a social affect has left us 2:12:47.760 --> 2:12:50.920 really unprepared for now where everything is just sort of like, 2:12:51.800 --> 2:12:55.760 you know, they're just doing it and saying it right, yeah, 2:12:55.960 --> 2:12:58.960 And it's not this sort of like irony pill deniability. Shit. 2:12:59.000 --> 2:13:01.560 They just do it and people are just not prepared 2:13:01.600 --> 2:13:01.760 for that. 2:13:02.360 --> 2:13:04.800 They're able to wage this war kind of on both fronts, 2:13:05.280 --> 2:13:08.640 and I think they are still pushing this. I'm going 2:13:08.720 --> 2:13:12.200 to quote from a friend of the pod rat Limit 2:13:12.520 --> 2:13:16.880 one of my favorite mutes quote prediction, the Nazi salute 2:13:16.880 --> 2:13:19.480 will become common within two years. Right wingers will half 2:13:19.520 --> 2:13:23.760 asset for plausible deniability, mimify the backlash, and then start 2:13:23.800 --> 2:13:26.080 fully doing it quote unquote as a joke to quote 2:13:26.120 --> 2:13:29.720 unquote troll the Libs for being hysterical enough to think 2:13:29.800 --> 2:13:32.720 that they were doing it in the first place. Fascism 2:13:32.920 --> 2:13:35.640 is a little bitch ideology because it's too timid to 2:13:35.760 --> 2:13:37.920 enact as cruelty until it can frame its cruelty as 2:13:38.000 --> 2:13:42.600 retaliation against others for anticipating it, and this has been 2:13:42.760 --> 2:13:45.919 proven right faster than I think what rat limit predicted. 2:13:46.000 --> 2:13:48.920 There's this current trend on x the Everything app where 2:13:49.520 --> 2:13:56.200 white girl aspiring influencers are doing Nazi style salutes and 2:13:56.360 --> 2:14:00.640 trying to mimify the backlash. Several posts going going viral 2:14:00.760 --> 2:14:04.200 of these. Of these like aspiring influencers either at the 2:14:04.320 --> 2:14:07.800 pool or cooking or doing laundry or walking your dog 2:14:08.560 --> 2:14:11.640 while having a your arm in a Elon Musk, my 2:14:11.720 --> 2:14:15.080 heart goes out to you Nazi salute style fashion. Yeah, 2:14:15.640 --> 2:14:18.680 and I think focusing media attention on someone like Musk 2:14:18.800 --> 2:14:21.160 doing a Nazi salute makes sense, right, he is like 2:14:21.200 --> 2:14:25.000 an actual person affiliated with the government. But making a 2:14:25.040 --> 2:14:29.600 whole media blitz about random blue check Twitter girls, maybe 2:14:29.680 --> 2:14:32.520 not so much. Maybe that doesn't have any actual value 2:14:32.640 --> 2:14:37.440 if a random like a random Twitter poster from Missouri 2:14:37.600 --> 2:14:41.160 is trying to garner backlash by doing a Hyle Hitler 2:14:41.240 --> 2:14:43.320 salute in their kitchen next to their instapot. 2:14:44.320 --> 2:14:47.200 I keep coming back to the thing that I wrote 2:14:47.240 --> 2:14:49.880 about the original Loss salute and about the ways that 2:14:50.000 --> 2:14:53.680 everyone you know, like one of the functions of capitalism 2:14:53.760 --> 2:14:57.040 is that everyone has been trained to experience the world 2:14:57.120 --> 2:14:59.920 and think in the image of action instead of like 2:15:00.120 --> 2:15:03.440 actually existing things. That's what I want to talk about next. Yeah, yeah, 2:15:03.520 --> 2:15:04.400 let's do this, Let's do this. 2:15:04.520 --> 2:15:05.280 Yeah, go for go for it. 2:15:05.440 --> 2:15:05.480 No. 2:15:05.880 --> 2:15:09.120 I think part of this focus on on on like 2:15:09.560 --> 2:15:12.400 these hidden codes and even just like these messages online 2:15:13.120 --> 2:15:17.640 is a liberal opposition to the aesthetics of deportation, but 2:15:17.800 --> 2:15:21.640 not necessarily the act itself. It's carrying out deportations in 2:15:21.760 --> 2:15:26.720 a mode that seems not in line with like neoliberal governing. 2:15:27.200 --> 2:15:29.919 And that's I think what a bunch of the backlash 2:15:30.000 --> 2:15:32.200 being focused on the aesthetics of the Trump administration, like 2:15:32.240 --> 2:15:35.360 how they film like gaudy ASMR videos that they post 2:15:35.360 --> 2:15:38.720 from the White House account of deportations and use military planes. 2:15:39.080 --> 2:15:42.280 Those are aesthetic differences, and those differences may be important, 2:15:42.720 --> 2:15:45.040 and they're they're bad, right, It's I'm not saying these 2:15:45.080 --> 2:15:46.680 things are good. Those things are still bad. 2:15:46.800 --> 2:15:47.000 Yeah. 2:15:47.480 --> 2:15:51.320 But when that gets focused on slightly more than just 2:15:51.400 --> 2:15:54.400 the pure acti deportation itself, that I think is evident 2:15:54.600 --> 2:15:57.720 of being trapped in this like capitalist realism, being trapped 2:15:57.800 --> 2:16:01.200 in this like like this neoliberal Yeah, the society of 2:16:01.200 --> 2:16:04.800 the spectacle exactly, right, let's like in June, Ice arrested 2:16:04.960 --> 2:16:08.680 thirty thousand people and did eighteen thousand deportations. In May 2:16:08.760 --> 2:16:11.600 it was twenty four thousand arrests in eighteen thousand deportations. 2:16:12.200 --> 2:16:15.600 Since February, the Trump admin has averaged about fourteen thousand 2:16:15.600 --> 2:16:19.320 and seven hundred deportations of month. The highest number of 2:16:19.360 --> 2:16:25.680 deportations ever was in twenty thirteen under Obama, averaging thirty 2:16:25.760 --> 2:16:30.760 six thousand a month. The Biden admin averaged almost thirteen thousand. 2:16:31.640 --> 2:16:34.959 When the Trump administration started using military planes for deportations 2:16:35.320 --> 2:16:39.680 back in January, mainly as an esthetic choice, that triggered 2:16:39.800 --> 2:16:44.880 backlash and rejections from Mexico and Colombia. Mexico refused to 2:16:44.920 --> 2:16:48.040 allow US military aircraft carrying deported migrants to land in 2:16:48.080 --> 2:16:51.400 their country. Colombia also barred two military planes full of migrants, 2:16:51.440 --> 2:16:55.720 but later caved as Trump threatened unitive tariffs. And you 2:16:55.760 --> 2:16:58.280 can see the same thing about deploying military to the border, 2:16:58.400 --> 2:17:00.680 something that Biden also did, but it has a larger 2:17:00.760 --> 2:17:03.800 aesthetic backlash under Trump. Do you have something you want 2:17:03.840 --> 2:17:06.320 to say on this like image aspect? I have some 2:17:06.520 --> 2:17:08.600 quotes from Fisher and that's kind of all I have left. 2:17:09.200 --> 2:17:12.400 Yeah, I mean it is very fitting of our styles 2:17:12.440 --> 2:17:14.400 of politics that you're going to Fisher here and I'm 2:17:14.440 --> 2:17:15.520 going to Benjamin. 2:17:15.800 --> 2:17:18.920 Benjamin is quoted in these sections that Fisher is pulling 2:17:18.959 --> 2:17:19.440 from as well. 2:17:19.680 --> 2:17:22.720 Yep, yep. So I'll go into the source. I'm not 2:17:22.840 --> 2:17:28.760 going through the fucking cru bullshit like pop marks, this 2:17:29.320 --> 2:17:34.360 bourmois running doc. But no, but like, you know, like 2:17:34.440 --> 2:17:36.960 one of the things that that Walter Benjamin, who people 2:17:37.400 --> 2:17:41.200 genuinely really should read. He's one of the great original 2:17:41.240 --> 2:17:44.720 theorists of fascism, and he fucking died trying to flee 2:17:44.760 --> 2:17:48.800 the Nazis. And one of his arguments was that, you know, 2:17:49.280 --> 2:17:51.920 one of the cores of fascism is the replacement of 2:17:52.120 --> 2:17:56.040 politics with aesthetics, Right, that aesthetics would allow you to 2:17:56.640 --> 2:18:01.280 you know, feels like feel representations of do the action. 2:18:01.879 --> 2:18:03.680 And this is this is an analysis that has been 2:18:03.720 --> 2:18:07.640 sort of like folded through a whole bunch of different 2:18:07.680 --> 2:18:10.160 analyzes of how capitalism functions. Right, this is this is 2:18:10.200 --> 2:18:12.080 one of the three lines of the society a spectacle, 2:18:12.440 --> 2:18:14.880 and it's this real issue that we're dealing with now 2:18:14.920 --> 2:18:18.280 because again kind of in a sense, what has happened 2:18:18.720 --> 2:18:22.200 to everything right, And you can argue to some extent 2:18:22.240 --> 2:18:25.640 that like our channel being called cool zone Media is 2:18:25.760 --> 2:18:29.480 sort of this is that all politics from every side 2:18:29.520 --> 2:18:32.240 has been completely reduced to aesthetics. And completely reducing it 2:18:32.280 --> 2:18:35.680 to aesthetics allows like allows the fascist mode of politics 2:18:35.720 --> 2:18:38.000 to simply draw in a bunch of people who can 2:18:38.080 --> 2:18:42.000 sort of just now passively experience living through these sort 2:18:42.040 --> 2:18:43.560 of through this sort of collection of images and this 2:18:43.640 --> 2:18:46.640 emotional aesthetic. Yeah, and it also is doing the same 2:18:46.720 --> 2:18:48.680 thing to us. But the thing is they have the 2:18:48.760 --> 2:18:51.640 fucking state and we don't, right, And so if you 2:18:51.720 --> 2:18:53.840 don't fucking exit, if you don't exit the sort of 2:18:53.920 --> 2:18:57.280 mirror world of esthetic of sort of like of fucking 2:18:57.400 --> 2:19:00.960 living in images, right, and you know, go do the 2:19:01.000 --> 2:19:02.560 actual shit that the board is talking about in the 2:19:02.600 --> 2:19:04.720 society a spectacle. Were you when all your friends formed 2:19:04.720 --> 2:19:07.480 workers councils and fucking start taking all of the ship 2:19:07.600 --> 2:19:09.600 back from all of the people who were taking it 2:19:09.680 --> 2:19:12.120 from you, You're just gonna live in the fascist nightmare forever. 2:19:12.240 --> 2:19:13.960 I mean, you could look at the union resistance to 2:19:14.160 --> 2:19:17.160 icedy iportations, specifically in LA with russaurant workers that it's 2:19:17.360 --> 2:19:19.840 literally doing that and like I would argue, like now, 2:19:20.720 --> 2:19:23.800 it's not so much that fascism is politics as athetics, 2:19:23.879 --> 2:19:27.200 but especially now, it is an aestheticized politics. And you 2:19:27.280 --> 2:19:29.520 can even see that in so far as its focuses 2:19:29.600 --> 2:19:32.440 on you know, like race and like ethnic purity, like 2:19:32.520 --> 2:19:36.640 blood and soil. That's why they're posting American progress driving 2:19:36.680 --> 2:19:40.800 out the indigenous people with the aryan white lady carrying 2:19:40.920 --> 2:19:44.160 the torch of progress. It is an aestheticized politics on 2:19:44.240 --> 2:19:47.480 like a very pure level. And again, to quote from 2:19:47.680 --> 2:19:53.720 my goat, uh this antigoat quote Mark Fisher in captust 2:19:53.760 --> 2:19:59.040 Realism quote, ultra authoritarianism and capital are by no means incompatible. 2:19:59.440 --> 2:20:04.040 In tournament Camp's enfranchise coffee bars co exist, neoliberals, the 2:20:04.120 --> 2:20:07.800 capitalist realists par excellence have celebrated the destruction of public space, 2:20:07.879 --> 2:20:10.800 but contrary to their official hopes, there is no withering 2:20:10.879 --> 2:20:13.120 away of the state, only a stripping back of the 2:20:13.200 --> 2:20:17.760 state to its core military and police functions. Unquote. This 2:20:17.879 --> 2:20:20.400 is very similar to something that me and Mia talked 2:20:20.440 --> 2:20:23.160 about right as Trump got elected, in terms of the 2:20:23.240 --> 2:20:26.000 state becoming more removed but hostile. 2:20:26.480 --> 2:20:29.320 Yeah, although although I see again I disagree official here 2:20:29.320 --> 2:20:31.120 because the neo liberals understood what they were doing to 2:20:31.160 --> 2:20:32.920 begin with. They were never trying to wither the state away. 2:20:32.959 --> 2:20:34.920 That was just the lies that they told the fucking 2:20:35.000 --> 2:20:38.040 basses Like sure, I mean that's what contrary to their 2:20:38.120 --> 2:20:43.199 official Yeah, yeah, and it's like you know, quote, such. 2:20:43.000 --> 2:20:46.280 A blight can only be eased by an intervention that 2:20:46.440 --> 2:20:49.640 can be no more anticipated than was the onset of 2:20:49.720 --> 2:20:53.080 the curse in the first place. Action is pointless, only senseless. 2:20:53.240 --> 2:20:57.400 Hope makes sense. Superstition and religion the first resorts the 2:20:57.480 --> 2:21:02.480 helpless proliferate unquote. This is part of what I conceptualize 2:21:02.480 --> 2:21:04.520 as this code hunting is almost a form of this 2:21:04.720 --> 2:21:09.680 hopeless superstition. To continue quote, the catastrophe is neither waiting 2:21:09.760 --> 2:21:12.440 down the road, nor has it already happened. Rather, it 2:21:12.600 --> 2:21:15.880 is being lived through. There is no punctual moment of disaster. 2:21:16.000 --> 2:21:19.480 The world doesn't end with a bang. It winks out, unravels, 2:21:19.680 --> 2:21:23.680 gradually falls apart. What caused the catastrophe to occur? Who 2:21:23.800 --> 2:21:27.200 knows its cause? Lies long in the past, so absolutely 2:21:27.240 --> 2:21:29.920 detached from the present as to seem like the caprice 2:21:30.040 --> 2:21:34.120 of a maligned being, a negative miracle, a melidation which 2:21:34.200 --> 2:21:38.279 no penance can ameliorate the turn from belief to aesthetics, 2:21:38.520 --> 2:21:42.280 from engagement to spectatorship is held to be one of 2:21:42.400 --> 2:21:46.480 the virtues of capitalist realism unquote. And yeah, that's what 2:21:46.600 --> 2:21:49.160 me is talking about with Gidebor and society of the spectacle. 2:21:49.720 --> 2:21:51.840 That's a trap that I think a lot of people 2:21:51.879 --> 2:21:56.640 are falling into right now. And though it's arguable that 2:21:56.840 --> 2:22:02.000 living in a liberal contradiction may be preferable to fascist authoritarianism, 2:22:02.480 --> 2:22:05.480 that stullsn't mean it's like good, right, That's not what 2:22:05.560 --> 2:22:09.480 we're arguing here. Fisher then quotes French philosopher Alawn Badu 2:22:09.840 --> 2:22:13.480 quote to justify their conservatism. The partisans of the established 2:22:13.560 --> 2:22:17.080 order cannot really call it ideal or wonderful, so instead 2:22:17.480 --> 2:22:20.800 they've decided to say that all of the rest is horrible. Sure, 2:22:21.080 --> 2:22:23.840 they say, we may not live in a condition of 2:22:23.959 --> 2:22:26.600 perfect goodness, but we are lucky that we don't live 2:22:26.680 --> 2:22:29.480 in a condition of evil. Our democracy is not perfect, 2:22:29.720 --> 2:22:33.640 but it's better than bloody dictatorships. Capitalism is unjust, but 2:22:33.760 --> 2:22:37.279 it's not criminal like Stalinism. We let millions of Africans 2:22:37.360 --> 2:22:41.000 die of AIDS, but we don't make racist nationalist declarations 2:22:41.120 --> 2:22:44.640 like Lamosovich. We kill Iraqis with our airplanes, but we 2:22:44.720 --> 2:22:47.000 don't cut their throats with machetes like they do in 2:22:47.120 --> 2:22:51.800 Rwanda unquote. And already parts of this are slightly outdated. 2:22:51.959 --> 2:22:52.879 Oh yeah, because. 2:22:54.360 --> 2:22:58.160 Now, But this is the thing is both are tragedies 2:22:58.200 --> 2:23:00.720 where millions people die, right. One of them is through 2:23:00.760 --> 2:23:03.960 the aesthetics of neoliberalism. The other one is through asthetics 2:23:04.000 --> 2:23:08.000 of racist nationalistic declarations, which the Trump administration is currently 2:23:08.040 --> 2:23:10.560 playing with. That is what they decided to do. Yeah, 2:23:10.720 --> 2:23:14.040 and so the reaction to it is on this aesthetic note, 2:23:14.400 --> 2:23:19.279 not necessarily on this pure actual humanistic opposition to deportations 2:23:19.320 --> 2:23:21.600 as a process that is inhumane that we should not 2:23:21.680 --> 2:23:22.360 allow at all. 2:23:23.080 --> 2:23:25.680 Yeah. I see the logic of this all the fucking time, 2:23:25.760 --> 2:23:27.400 talking to people where like we'll be like, okay, like 2:23:27.480 --> 2:23:29.840 no deportations, and then you get a whole bunch of 2:23:29.879 --> 2:23:32.000 people being like, wow, but what about criminals just like 2:23:32.200 --> 2:23:35.480 some some deportation? What do is this is the structural 2:23:35.640 --> 2:23:39.119 logic of the original like deportation blitz from Trump. 2:23:38.959 --> 2:23:41.080 Creating a class of undesirables that you can then always 2:23:41.080 --> 2:23:42.920 add to and press the border on. Like what Karl 2:23:42.959 --> 2:23:45.600 Schmid talks about this is the structural logic of fascism. Yeah, 2:23:45.600 --> 2:23:49.240 but everyone everyone thinks about deportations this way now, and 2:23:49.360 --> 2:23:51.680 they're mad that Trump is doing it and not Biden. 2:23:52.240 --> 2:23:55.080 But you know, until people actually break through the sort 2:23:55.120 --> 2:23:59.640 of pure opposition to the aesthetics and actually start, you know, 2:24:00.840 --> 2:24:03.400 having a kind of totalizing opposition to the system that 2:24:03.560 --> 2:24:05.520 is doing this, we're just going to be stuck here. 2:24:06.280 --> 2:24:08.240 And this is I think one of the limits of 2:24:09.040 --> 2:24:13.320 using anti fascism as this like aesthetic code hunting, is 2:24:13.360 --> 2:24:17.480 because a few days ago, the ths posted a Woody 2:24:17.560 --> 2:24:21.199 Guthrie song, his song America the Beautiful, with the DHS 2:24:21.280 --> 2:24:24.480 posting the promise of America is worth protecting the future 2:24:24.600 --> 2:24:27.920 of our homeland is worth defending. Notably, everyone in this 2:24:28.080 --> 2:24:31.000 video is all white people, which this sentiment is the 2:24:31.120 --> 2:24:35.320 same thing as the fourteen words, except it has fifteen words, 2:24:35.400 --> 2:24:39.080 so therefore not a Nazi dog whistle. We're safe, guys, 2:24:39.160 --> 2:24:41.800 we're good. I counted the words. There's fifteen of them, 2:24:42.120 --> 2:24:45.240 so you can disregard what the actual text is saying. 2:24:45.640 --> 2:24:49.520 And I think that is like the prime the prime 2:24:49.600 --> 2:24:54.320 contradiction in which I am growing increasingly frustrated So that's 2:24:54.440 --> 2:24:57.440 most of what I have to say about the limits 2:24:57.440 --> 2:25:02.560 of Nazi code hunting and the the aesthetics of superstition 2:25:02.720 --> 2:25:05.960 and the paranoid style in American politics. Mia, do you 2:25:06.000 --> 2:25:08.560 have any any final wise notes? 2:25:09.200 --> 2:25:12.080 The time for Nazi code hunting, if there ever was one, 2:25:12.280 --> 2:25:16.600 has passed. It is now time to end the episode 2:25:16.640 --> 2:25:17.000 right here. 2:25:17.640 --> 2:25:18.040 That's right. 2:25:18.120 --> 2:25:21.280 It is related for anything. Oh and if you were 2:25:21.280 --> 2:25:23.840 able to decode the hidden message in the ad break, 2:25:24.480 --> 2:25:27.880 send the contents of the message via email to your 2:25:27.920 --> 2:25:30.440 local congressman to redeem your prize. 2:25:30.920 --> 2:25:31.320 Bye bye. 2:25:49.560 --> 2:25:52.600 This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:25:52.680 --> 2:25:55.640 newscast covering what is happening in the White House, the 2:25:55.680 --> 2:25:57.960 crumbling world what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. 2:25:58.040 --> 2:26:01.200 This episode, I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Tout, and 2:26:01.320 --> 2:26:06.879 Robert Evans. Were covering the week of July thirtieth August seventh. Robert, 2:26:06.959 --> 2:26:07.800 what is Texas? 2:26:08.280 --> 2:26:12.200 So the original root word of the state's name is Tejas, 2:26:12.280 --> 2:26:15.080 which means friendship, a thing that no one in Texas 2:26:15.160 --> 2:26:18.040 has ever known because it's the angriest meana state in 2:26:18.160 --> 2:26:19.840 the country. That's that's Texas. 2:26:19.959 --> 2:26:22.480 Garrison up for some stiff competition these days, for some 2:26:22.600 --> 2:26:23.440 stiff competition. 2:26:23.600 --> 2:26:25.520 But it's still it's still holding out, isn't it. 2:26:25.720 --> 2:26:27.600 Everything's bigger in Texas Garrison. 2:26:27.760 --> 2:26:31.320 It's it's famed as being the second or third worst 2:26:31.440 --> 2:26:35.760 state that borders New Mexico. So you know, rarefied company. 2:26:36.400 --> 2:26:38.959 Really it can compete with all of the states bordering 2:26:39.000 --> 2:26:42.320 New Mexico except for Colorado. But the state's bordering New 2:26:42.360 --> 2:26:46.240 Mexico except for Colorado are Oklahoma and Arizona and Texas, 2:26:46.520 --> 2:26:48.440 so not high bars. 2:26:48.800 --> 2:26:51.880 Texas has some of the finest abt and breakfasts that 2:26:52.000 --> 2:26:54.520 I've ever stayed in, that's right, including one with a 2:26:54.760 --> 2:26:56.119 deeply disturbing basement. 2:26:56.320 --> 2:26:59.360 Okay, just because they had one torture based on James. 2:26:59.640 --> 2:27:03.000 So we're talking about Texas right now because a bunch 2:27:03.080 --> 2:27:07.640 of the Democratic state legislators just fled the state for Illinois, 2:27:08.000 --> 2:27:08.400 I believe. 2:27:08.520 --> 2:27:11.199 Is how the name of the state has pronounced yea French. 2:27:11.240 --> 2:27:12.280 It's French. It's French. 2:27:12.680 --> 2:27:18.600 Fact check for a real illinoisan wrongsupposed fact checks by 2:27:18.680 --> 2:27:19.520 really annoyance. 2:27:20.320 --> 2:27:23.640 So when you've got a legislature of pretty much any type, 2:27:23.640 --> 2:27:25.520 at least in the US I'm sure there's other countries 2:27:25.560 --> 2:27:27.240 that don't do it this way. But you need what's 2:27:27.280 --> 2:27:29.880 called a quorum in order to actually do anything, which 2:27:29.959 --> 2:27:33.520 means of the total number of elected members of the legislature, 2:27:33.600 --> 2:27:37.440 you need a certain number of them. Otherwise you can't 2:27:37.600 --> 2:27:40.840 like do anything because there's not enough people there in 2:27:41.040 --> 2:27:44.120 order to actually have it be a valid vote. And 2:27:44.360 --> 2:27:46.200 I probably don't have to explain the reasonings why. There's 2:27:46.200 --> 2:27:48.160 some pretty obvious reasons why you'd want it to work 2:27:48.200 --> 2:27:51.800 this way. But there are, however, some downsides to it. 2:27:51.920 --> 2:27:54.640 You know, potentially you can be depending on whether or 2:27:54.680 --> 2:27:56.760 not your side is doing it. It's a downside or 2:27:56.800 --> 2:28:00.320 an upside, right, which is that if you have a 2:28:00.560 --> 2:28:03.800 side that is the minority in the government and they 2:28:03.959 --> 2:28:07.480 don't want a vote to go through, they can just bounce. 2:28:08.080 --> 2:28:10.320 And if they bounce at the right time, before the 2:28:10.400 --> 2:28:13.080 legislature has been called and like no one's there, then 2:28:13.120 --> 2:28:15.840 you can't get a quorum and nothing can get done. 2:28:16.440 --> 2:28:19.960 And this is big news right now because in order 2:28:20.040 --> 2:28:24.320 to stop a redistricting vote, a bunch of Democratic legislators 2:28:24.360 --> 2:28:26.120 have fled. But this is a thing that has been 2:28:26.200 --> 2:28:29.320 going on for well over a century. And it is 2:28:29.400 --> 2:28:32.640 a thing that both sides of the aisle have engaged 2:28:32.720 --> 2:28:36.720 in with substantial regularity. I'm not an expert on any 2:28:36.800 --> 2:28:40.520 of this. The earliest example I can find if anyone 2:28:40.680 --> 2:28:42.720 doing this is in Texas. And I'm not saying that 2:28:42.800 --> 2:28:44.640 means it's the earliest example of anyone in the US 2:28:44.760 --> 2:28:47.600 doing this, But the earliest example I found in my 2:28:47.959 --> 2:28:51.440 research was from eighteen seventy. So there's an article on 2:28:51.520 --> 2:28:54.760 this in that by the Texas State Historical Association called 2:28:54.879 --> 2:28:58.200 understanding the rump Senate of the twelfth Texas Legislature, and 2:28:58.280 --> 2:29:01.360 the rump Senate is a term applied to the fifteen 2:29:01.840 --> 2:29:06.000 radical Republican members of the twelfth Texas Legislature who fled 2:29:06.040 --> 2:29:08.640 in eighteen seventy to stop a vote on a militia bill. 2:29:08.800 --> 2:29:12.440 And this bill gave the governor power to declare martial law. 2:29:12.760 --> 2:29:15.920 It gave him the power to establish a state police force. 2:29:16.440 --> 2:29:18.480 It increased the appointed power of the governor. 2:29:18.520 --> 2:29:20.880 A bunch of stuff that's not all that interesting to 2:29:21.000 --> 2:29:24.520 us today because governors, like every state does this today, 2:29:24.680 --> 2:29:28.360 right Like there's state police everywhere. Every state governor has 2:29:28.400 --> 2:29:30.440 the power to call a militia, you know, a national 2:29:30.480 --> 2:29:31.640 guard or whatever. Like. 2:29:31.760 --> 2:29:34.520 This is not controversial today, but it was back then. 2:29:34.600 --> 2:29:36.600 And it's important that I note that while it was 2:29:36.720 --> 2:29:41.520 fifteen radical Republicans who fled in eighteen seventy, those were conservatives, right, 2:29:41.680 --> 2:29:46.360 Like the radical Republicans were conservatives in eighteen seventy. Right, 2:29:46.480 --> 2:29:48.680 So this is this is kind of a reverse if 2:29:48.720 --> 2:29:50.560 you're just sort of looking at things from a liberal 2:29:50.680 --> 2:29:52.800 or conservative point of view. This is kind of a 2:29:52.840 --> 2:29:56.520 reversal of what's happening right now in Texas, although it's 2:29:56.560 --> 2:29:58.680 happened a lot of other times since. Right, So this 2:29:58.800 --> 2:30:03.080 is eighteen seventy. Should note it didn't succeed, right. This is, however, 2:30:03.240 --> 2:30:05.960 one of the fairly rare times when this kind of 2:30:06.040 --> 2:30:09.120 thing happens. If it goes on long enough, every time, 2:30:09.360 --> 2:30:12.520 the governor basically will declare an arrest warrant for the 2:30:12.600 --> 2:30:15.760 legislators who have left, And as a general rule, this 2:30:15.959 --> 2:30:18.560 does nothing, right, Like, the governor has the ability to 2:30:18.680 --> 2:30:20.760 find them a certain amount per day, and it has 2:30:20.800 --> 2:30:22.879 the ability to call out an arrest warrant, but it's 2:30:22.879 --> 2:30:25.560 not like a real arrest warrant, like if you murder 2:30:25.640 --> 2:30:28.680 a guy and then lead to another state an arrest 2:30:28.760 --> 2:30:31.920 warrant will be issued that law enforcement in that state 2:30:32.080 --> 2:30:35.560 has to abide by. Right because you murdered somebody, this 2:30:35.800 --> 2:30:38.160 is not a real crime. Basically, if you flee back, 2:30:38.280 --> 2:30:40.720 if you wind up back in the state that you left, 2:30:41.360 --> 2:30:45.040 you can be taken into custody by law enforcement in 2:30:45.160 --> 2:30:47.400 the state, but they can't leave the state to get you. 2:30:48.000 --> 2:30:50.160 And almost I would say, like ninety percent of the 2:30:50.240 --> 2:30:53.039 time when something like this happens, nobody actually gets arrested. However, 2:30:53.080 --> 2:30:56.880 in eighteen seventy several Conservative members were held under arrest 2:30:56.920 --> 2:31:00.320 for like three weeks until the Senate could pass the legislation. So, 2:31:01.080 --> 2:31:03.600 as is usually the case, whenever stuff like this happens, 2:31:04.000 --> 2:31:08.320 it only succeeded in kind of delaying the inevitable. It 2:31:08.400 --> 2:31:11.800 didn't succeed in actually stopping things. And this has happened 2:31:11.800 --> 2:31:15.720 a number of times in Texas, most recently Texas Democratic 2:31:15.840 --> 2:31:19.039 lawmakers broke quorum in twenty twenty one. And I want 2:31:19.080 --> 2:31:22.200 to quote here from an article in ABC News. Quote 2:31:22.280 --> 2:31:25.320 Texas state lawmakers left Brookquarran twenty twenty one when Democratic 2:31:25.400 --> 2:31:29.040 House representatives fled Texas to prevent measures restricting voting options. 2:31:29.280 --> 2:31:32.440 The measures eventually passed after internal democratic fissures led to 2:31:32.560 --> 2:31:36.920 enough representatives returning to form a quorum. And this is 2:31:36.959 --> 2:31:39.920 the kind of thing where Governor Abbott allowed the Sergeant 2:31:40.000 --> 2:31:42.480 of Arms or commanded the Sergeant of Arms to arrest 2:31:42.520 --> 2:31:45.680 the members within Texas. Weirdly enough, a couple of them 2:31:45.760 --> 2:31:50.280 did return. The first was Philip Cortes, who briefly came 2:31:50.360 --> 2:31:53.040 back to Austin to handle personal business and there was 2:31:53.080 --> 2:31:55.280 a civil arrest warrant signed, but then he fled the 2:31:55.360 --> 2:31:59.160 state again before he could be arrested. There were warrant 2:31:59.200 --> 2:32:02.840 signed for the fifty two remaining absent legislators, but law 2:32:02.879 --> 2:32:07.760 enforcement didn't arrest or detain anybody. Eventually, enough democratic legislators 2:32:07.800 --> 2:32:10.520 came back into the state for like personal reasons. Some 2:32:10.640 --> 2:32:12.959 of them had like shit to handle, like in their 2:32:13.000 --> 2:32:16.040 own life. Some of them had other things they wanted 2:32:16.080 --> 2:32:18.400 to push through in terms of like legislature, and so 2:32:18.720 --> 2:32:20.879 they were like, I guess I'll come back and let 2:32:20.920 --> 2:32:24.520 this happen. And eventually the House reached quorum. And this 2:32:24.760 --> 2:32:27.560 past Democrats did not face the five hundred dollars a 2:32:27.680 --> 2:32:29.960 day fine that they'd been threatened by the governor, and 2:32:30.080 --> 2:32:33.640 nobody was arrested. Now, I've been talking about Texas here, 2:32:33.760 --> 2:32:36.000 but this happens all over the place. In fact, when 2:32:36.040 --> 2:32:38.480 this story first broke, the immediate thing I thought back 2:32:38.560 --> 2:32:42.240 on was what happened very recently in the state of Oregon, 2:32:42.320 --> 2:32:44.400 and has happened a couple of times in the state 2:32:44.480 --> 2:32:45.039 of Oregon. 2:32:45.200 --> 2:32:46.520 You know it was mine too. They do this all 2:32:46.560 --> 2:32:48.640 the time, They do this a lot. 2:32:49.120 --> 2:32:53.800 But yes, this is a common thing in Oregon. It 2:32:53.920 --> 2:32:56.680 has started, and this is both parties have done this. 2:32:56.879 --> 2:32:59.800 I should note right, both Democrats and Republicans in Oregon, 2:33:00.200 --> 2:33:02.119 as in Texas, have done walkouts. 2:33:02.240 --> 2:33:03.600 They don't even have to leave the state. 2:33:04.240 --> 2:33:06.360 They don't even have to leave the state, although they 2:33:06.440 --> 2:33:09.040 have recently. This seems to have started an Oregon I 2:33:09.080 --> 2:33:11.680 think in the nineteen seventies. There's actually a really good 2:33:11.840 --> 2:33:14.959 article that's like an overview of a bunch of different 2:33:15.000 --> 2:33:20.000 states history of doing this in Oregon Central Oregon Daily News, 2:33:20.440 --> 2:33:22.600 although it's an ap Press article, so I guess Central 2:33:22.600 --> 2:33:27.080 Oregon Daily just is licensing this thing. But anyway, in Oregon, 2:33:27.400 --> 2:33:31.040 the most recent case of this happening was in twenty 2:33:31.120 --> 2:33:34.600 twenty three, after Republicans staged a six week boycott, which 2:33:34.600 --> 2:33:37.600 is the longest so far in Oregon legislature history, over 2:33:37.800 --> 2:33:40.119 a rule a law of the Democratic Party was pushing 2:33:40.200 --> 2:33:42.800 to protect abortion rights and the right to gender firming 2:33:42.879 --> 2:33:46.600 care for transgender people. This again did not succeed. This 2:33:46.920 --> 2:33:51.200 was passed in the legislature and there were actually some consequences, 2:33:51.240 --> 2:33:53.800 although it hasn't been enough time to see how serious 2:33:53.840 --> 2:33:56.680 there will be. Because there was a different GOP walkout 2:33:56.720 --> 2:34:01.119 over climate change legislation which also failed in twenty twenty two, 2:34:01.680 --> 2:34:04.920 and as a result of that twenty twenty two walk out, 2:34:05.120 --> 2:34:07.720 voters approved an amendment to the state constitution in Oregon 2:34:07.760 --> 2:34:10.560 which barred lawmakers from getting re elected if they had 2:34:10.600 --> 2:34:14.600 more than ten unexcused absences in a single annual legislative session. 2:34:14.920 --> 2:34:17.080 And as a result of the walkout the next year 2:34:17.320 --> 2:34:21.040 over abortion rights and gender firming care, ten Oregon Republican 2:34:21.120 --> 2:34:25.119 lawmakers were barred from seeking re election again. As I stated, 2:34:25.160 --> 2:34:29.080 this is something that very rarely actually does anything. There's 2:34:29.240 --> 2:34:31.840 a twenty twenty one case in New Hampshire where Democrats 2:34:31.920 --> 2:34:35.160 walked out in protest of an anti abortion bill. The 2:34:35.240 --> 2:34:38.440 Republican House speaker locked the doors to maintain a quorum. 2:34:38.840 --> 2:34:40.880 I'm going to quote from the Central organ Daily article. 2:34:41.040 --> 2:34:43.080 I'm locking the doors right now so that everybody in 2:34:43.160 --> 2:34:45.119 the chamber will stay in the chamber. Shout at House 2:34:45.160 --> 2:34:47.920 Speaker Sherman Packard, who later refused to let Democrats back 2:34:47.959 --> 2:34:48.880 in to vote on the bill. 2:34:50.160 --> 2:34:54.800 It's just fucking like representative politics is just snol children 2:34:54.959 --> 2:34:57.560 shouting at each other. I want them to fight with canes. 2:34:57.720 --> 2:35:00.840 They should be fighting with King agreed. Give them, give 2:35:00.879 --> 2:35:02.800 them all enough, let them fights it out. 2:35:03.360 --> 2:35:05.680 I would say ninety percent of the time, nothing is 2:35:05.959 --> 2:35:08.800 at least from the reading I've done, nothing is achieved 2:35:08.879 --> 2:35:10.720 except for a delay, which is not to say that 2:35:10.800 --> 2:35:12.680 that's nothing. And also I do believe, like in the 2:35:12.720 --> 2:35:15.120 case of the Democratic Party, I don't think what the 2:35:15.160 --> 2:35:18.880 Texas Democrats are doing will stop the redistricting. Like the 2:35:18.959 --> 2:35:22.440 Republicans are going to win this fight. It's worth fighting. Yeah, 2:35:22.520 --> 2:35:26.000 I'm glad they're fighting it. However, very rarely is the 2:35:26.160 --> 2:35:29.400 actual law stopped or is anything but a delay achieved. 2:35:29.720 --> 2:35:31.840 One of the rare cases in which something more was 2:35:31.879 --> 2:35:36.000 achieved is in twenty eleven in Wisconsin, Democratic state senators 2:35:36.200 --> 2:35:40.440 fled to Illinois as a protest against Governor Scott Walker. 2:35:40.600 --> 2:35:43.119 He was attempting to strip public workers of their union 2:35:43.240 --> 2:35:46.400 rights and this, you know, this walkout was staged at 2:35:46.440 --> 2:35:48.840 the same time as a mass pro union demonstration at 2:35:48.879 --> 2:35:53.080 the capitol, and after several weeks they won a partial victory. 2:35:53.160 --> 2:35:57.240 Republicans weakened the legislation, which is like significant, right, like 2:35:57.400 --> 2:36:01.120 the fact that they actually got concessions over this, and 2:36:01.240 --> 2:36:03.600 sometimes the delay can be significant. The same year that 2:36:03.680 --> 2:36:07.200 that all went down in Wisconsin, Indiana Democrats also left, 2:36:07.280 --> 2:36:10.280 for for whatever reason, ILLINOI is where you go if 2:36:10.320 --> 2:36:12.760 you're doing this. I don't No one wants to come 2:36:12.840 --> 2:36:13.560 get you know, wants to go. 2:36:14.000 --> 2:36:15.280 No one's coming to Illinois. 2:36:15.560 --> 2:36:16.360 It's just not worth it. 2:36:16.760 --> 2:36:19.680 I've been to fuck Illinois and sorry, Illinois is the 2:36:19.720 --> 2:36:23.039 hero of this story. We love you Illinois. Yeah, Chicago's five, 2:36:23.160 --> 2:36:25.720 Chicago's fined for whatever reason. This is the state you 2:36:25.879 --> 2:36:28.040 go to if you're a Democrat doing this in the 2:36:28.120 --> 2:36:30.480 modern era. If you're in Wisconsin, it's not that far away. 2:36:30.520 --> 2:36:33.320 I guess, well, this is Indiana too, and also not 2:36:33.480 --> 2:36:35.840 very far away. Yeah, it's also not far Yeah, they 2:36:35.879 --> 2:36:38.320 couldn't make it to California. You know, it's further now 2:36:38.360 --> 2:36:39.480 that Texans are doing it. 2:36:39.640 --> 2:36:42.320 Yeah, but Indiana Democrats left in twenty eleven to prevent 2:36:42.480 --> 2:36:47.440 Republican law that would have stopped unions from levying mandatory 2:36:47.560 --> 2:36:50.720 fees on union members, which would kind of make could 2:36:50.879 --> 2:36:53.760 potentially make it impossible to do a union because nobody 2:36:53.800 --> 2:36:57.520 wants to pay for a union, but everyone wants won right, Yeah, 2:36:57.720 --> 2:37:00.040 every worker does you want the union protecting you. You 2:37:00.080 --> 2:37:01.680 don't want to have to give up your money, So 2:37:01.760 --> 2:37:03.560 it's the kind of thing you could I think the 2:37:03.840 --> 2:37:07.000 Republican plan was use the natural greed that people have 2:37:07.280 --> 2:37:11.840 in order to hamstring unionizing efforts. Many such cases and 2:37:13.200 --> 2:37:15.480 the Democrats left, which left the House short of its 2:37:15.600 --> 2:37:19.360 quorum and threatened to stay in the other states until 2:37:19.680 --> 2:37:22.440 they were promised that the bills would not be called. 2:37:23.240 --> 2:37:25.840 Republicans successfully passed the bill, but they had to wait 2:37:25.920 --> 2:37:29.240 until the next year. So again, every now and then 2:37:29.520 --> 2:37:32.200 you ECO win out here or the side doing this 2:37:32.360 --> 2:37:35.119 eeks out a win, and everyone does it, and everyone 2:37:35.240 --> 2:37:37.120 has been doing it for more than one hundred and 2:37:37.200 --> 2:37:40.160 fifty years. Nothing about this is new, with the exception 2:37:40.240 --> 2:37:42.560 of the fact that they actually look to be pushing 2:37:42.640 --> 2:37:45.680 some serious legal consequences. The most I've been able to 2:37:45.720 --> 2:37:47.680 find in the history of this is what happened in 2:37:47.760 --> 2:37:50.760 eighteen seventy where a number of people were arrested and 2:37:50.879 --> 2:37:53.960 held in custody for a few weeks. Usually no one 2:37:54.080 --> 2:37:57.320 is arrested, and usually the fines aren't even actually levy. 2:37:57.520 --> 2:38:00.720 Right now, this does cost money. The last text walkout, 2:38:01.040 --> 2:38:03.680 Texas Democrats were spending like ten grand a day on 2:38:04.440 --> 2:38:08.360 food and board, you know, paying for their hotels or whatever, 2:38:08.760 --> 2:38:11.160 which was I think Beato Olor raised most of the 2:38:11.240 --> 2:38:13.400 money through his pack which is what covered it. 2:38:13.520 --> 2:38:15.160 A few hundred grand, Yeah. 2:38:15.320 --> 2:38:17.240 Like six hundred thousand dollars. So you know, this does 2:38:17.360 --> 2:38:19.200 cost money to do because you've got to put these 2:38:19.240 --> 2:38:22.400 people up. But generally you're not really hiding them, and 2:38:22.560 --> 2:38:26.520 generally the legal consequences are more of a threat than 2:38:26.560 --> 2:38:27.760 a reality. 2:38:27.560 --> 2:38:30.760 Right, and that might not be true in this most 2:38:30.840 --> 2:38:31.480 recent year. 2:38:31.560 --> 2:38:34.400 Yes case, Yes, And we're going to throw to you, Garrison, 2:38:34.520 --> 2:38:39.160 But first you know who does force serious life changing 2:38:39.240 --> 2:38:40.880 legal consequences on people? 2:38:41.480 --> 2:38:42.120 Jay Pritzk. 2:38:42.520 --> 2:38:42.680 Yes. 2:38:43.200 --> 2:38:45.640 And the products and services that support this podcast, which 2:38:45.640 --> 2:38:48.119 are entirely we're actually backed entirely by JB. 2:38:48.200 --> 2:38:51.680 Pritzker from your mouth to God's ears, Robert. 2:38:51.400 --> 2:38:55.800 Not like knowingly I stole his debit card, and boy, 2:38:55.920 --> 2:38:58.680 that guy has a high daily spending lem let me 2:38:58.760 --> 2:39:00.440 tell you yeah, but he has a lot of shadow 2:39:00.520 --> 2:39:04.680 companies anyway, Thanks JB. Please don't change your password to 2:39:04.760 --> 2:39:19.000 your online bank. Garrison, Hi, We're. 2:39:18.920 --> 2:39:23.400 Back, so as Roberts said, Republicans in the Texas Legislature 2:39:24.080 --> 2:39:27.160 are trying to jerrymander Texas to increase their total power 2:39:27.200 --> 2:39:30.080 over the state, proposing a redistricting map that would add 2:39:30.280 --> 2:39:34.000 five more Republican seats, and in an effort to prevent 2:39:34.200 --> 2:39:38.240 or delay this, this past Sunday, sixty two Texas Democrats 2:39:38.280 --> 2:39:41.280 have fled to Illinois to deny quorum in the Texas House, 2:39:41.560 --> 2:39:44.680 and only twelve need to return in order for the 2:39:44.760 --> 2:39:48.480 redistricting to go through, with the main goal right now 2:39:49.000 --> 2:39:52.280 being trying to stay out of the state until November. 2:39:52.840 --> 2:39:56.480 In terms of consequences, new House rules adopted back in 2:39:56.520 --> 2:40:00.080 twenty twenty three after the twenty twenty one quorum, I 2:40:00.240 --> 2:40:03.560 can impose a five hundred dollars fine per day for 2:40:03.760 --> 2:40:07.320 missing lawmakers, not just from the governor. Now on Monday, 2:40:07.520 --> 2:40:11.200 the Texas House Republicans voted to issue civil arrestaurants for 2:40:11.360 --> 2:40:14.119 the lawmakers, empowering the Sergeant of Arms and the Texas 2:40:14.280 --> 2:40:18.280 State Troopers to locate, apprehend, and transport the rogue legislators 2:40:18.360 --> 2:40:21.200 back to the capitol. Governor Greg Abbot announced he had 2:40:21.240 --> 2:40:23.600 mobilized the Texas Department of Public Safety to return the 2:40:23.640 --> 2:40:27.320 Democrats to the chamber. Now, these warrants really only apply 2:40:27.480 --> 2:40:30.560 within state lines. These are civil warrants. They're not facing 2:40:30.600 --> 2:40:34.520 criminal charges though. Back in twenty and three, during a 2:40:34.640 --> 2:40:39.039 similar quorum break due to gerrymandering efforts, fedral resources were 2:40:39.240 --> 2:40:44.200 used to track planes with suspected rogue Democrat lawmakers. An 2:40:44.280 --> 2:40:47.279 Abbot has already proposed trying to declare their House seats 2:40:47.400 --> 2:40:50.280 vacant if they do not return, a tactic which would 2:40:50.879 --> 2:40:56.400 probably prompt some lengthy legal battles and require new special 2:40:56.400 --> 2:40:59.040 elections to take place to fill the seats. So that 2:40:59.200 --> 2:41:03.280 still would like delay this process. That's not a quick solution. 2:41:04.720 --> 2:41:06.600 But there has been some breaking news as of this 2:41:06.840 --> 2:41:11.760 morning recording Thursday. On Thursday morning, Texas Senator John Corbin 2:41:11.959 --> 2:41:15.920 announced that the FBI would now be investigating and working 2:41:16.040 --> 2:41:20.199 to locate the Texas House Democrats saying in a press release, quote, 2:41:20.440 --> 2:41:23.840 I thank President Trump and Director Patel for supporting and 2:41:23.920 --> 2:41:26.280 swiftly acting on my call for the federal government to 2:41:26.360 --> 2:41:30.879 hold these supposed lawmakers accountable for fleeing Texas. We cannot 2:41:30.879 --> 2:41:36.440 allow these rogue legislators to avoid their constitutional responsibilities unquote. 2:41:37.280 --> 2:41:40.800 So the extent of the FBI's involvement in tracking, down, locating, 2:41:40.959 --> 2:41:44.840 or apprehending the Democrats is currently unknown. The FBI has 2:41:44.920 --> 2:41:47.680 declined to comment, but this is something that's going to 2:41:47.760 --> 2:41:49.879 develop in the next week, which. 2:41:49.760 --> 2:41:54.240 They always do when ongoing case. Is like, sure, if 2:41:54.280 --> 2:41:57.240 you email or whatever the FBI about any ongoing case. 2:41:57.320 --> 2:41:59.680 This is what they do, period. It's been their policy 2:41:59.720 --> 2:42:00.600 for p Yeah. 2:42:00.879 --> 2:42:03.360 So it doesn't tell you anything, just saying that in 2:42:03.480 --> 2:42:05.440 terms of like, we do not know what the extent 2:42:05.520 --> 2:42:08.000 of their involvement is going to be at this point, right, yeah, right, 2:42:08.040 --> 2:42:10.120 And they might not even know either. 2:42:10.640 --> 2:42:10.840 Yeah. 2:42:10.920 --> 2:42:12.960 This could just be a tech cashpitl TikTok. 2:42:13.520 --> 2:42:13.720 Yeah. 2:42:14.160 --> 2:42:17.280 Yeah, there's a good chance they're internally scrambling to like 2:42:17.440 --> 2:42:18.480 what are we gonna do? 2:42:19.280 --> 2:42:22.360 Like this would be unprecedented sending a federal like law 2:42:22.440 --> 2:42:26.080 enforcement arm to to to physically apprehend and return lawmakers. 2:42:26.560 --> 2:42:29.879 That is certainly an escalation from using like federal resources 2:42:29.920 --> 2:42:31.720 to track planes like they did in twos and three. 2:42:32.320 --> 2:42:33.720 This would be a whole new ballgame. 2:42:34.200 --> 2:42:37.160 Yeah. As I noted, it's uncommon for them to be 2:42:37.320 --> 2:42:40.240 arrested inside the state by the sergeant at arms. 2:42:40.480 --> 2:42:42.760 Yeah sure, I mean, like arrest just means, you know, 2:42:42.840 --> 2:42:45.760 you'd like accompany them back to the capital or force 2:42:45.840 --> 2:42:47.160 them to return to the capital. 2:42:47.480 --> 2:42:49.400 You're staying here, You're not going to leave to the state. 2:42:49.560 --> 2:42:52.360 Yeah, you've got a guy called sogeant Arms involved. It's 2:42:52.400 --> 2:42:55.480 not serious, but even that's purely uncommon. Yeah. 2:42:55.760 --> 2:42:58.959 No, I mean, like most corm breaks fail because legislators 2:42:59.080 --> 2:43:01.920 just choose to return, whether to do personal business, whether 2:43:01.959 --> 2:43:05.360 to do political business. It takes a lot of discipline 2:43:05.520 --> 2:43:08.080 to not return to your home for a period of 2:43:08.240 --> 2:43:09.640 like three to six months. 2:43:09.959 --> 2:43:12.800 Yeah, you get stuff to do. Most people, a lot 2:43:12.840 --> 2:43:17.720 of people have what are called familized Famali's something like that. 2:43:17.959 --> 2:43:19.040 For media, I don't know. 2:43:19.360 --> 2:43:23.039 I think it's a new concept. Yeah, we're still working 2:43:23.080 --> 2:43:24.560 at cool Zone to get a handle on it. We'll 2:43:24.600 --> 2:43:26.720 have a report on whatever that is, so don't worry. 2:43:27.120 --> 2:43:29.840 Yeah, they got to get back to the polycule or whatever. 2:43:29.959 --> 2:43:36.160 But they haven't violated a federal law right lately. No, 2:43:36.600 --> 2:43:39.280 so federal, they'ven't violated a Texas law. 2:43:39.720 --> 2:43:42.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not a law violation. It is 2:43:42.680 --> 2:43:45.560 literally the governor saying I'm sending guys for you. 2:43:46.080 --> 2:43:49.000 Yeah, it's just some old timey parliamentarian shit. 2:43:49.200 --> 2:43:49.360 Yeah. 2:43:49.440 --> 2:43:51.640 And like you know, as I was saying, it's like again, 2:43:51.760 --> 2:43:54.440 it isn't this could just be a cash hotel TikTok op. 2:43:54.920 --> 2:43:57.080 But also I hate the way that sounds. 2:43:57.600 --> 2:43:59.959 I what a fucking way to describe a federal law 2:44:00.160 --> 2:44:01.960 enforcement Oh it's on hinge. 2:44:02.040 --> 2:44:03.920 This is genuinely okay, I'm gonna take a very very 2:44:03.959 --> 2:44:05.920 slight detour, which I said this before. But also, like 2:44:06.000 --> 2:44:08.080 the thing that gives me the most hope about all 2:44:08.160 --> 2:44:11.480 of this is that, like, look, they found the right 2:44:11.560 --> 2:44:14.040 winger to put in charge of the American seecret Police, 2:44:14.080 --> 2:44:15.720 and he doesn't want to do his job because he 2:44:15.800 --> 2:44:16.920 just wants to be a podcaster. 2:44:17.200 --> 2:44:22.280 Hey understand, Look, you make me director the FBI, and 2:44:22.400 --> 2:44:24.480 I promise to be more or less the same. 2:44:25.440 --> 2:44:25.640 Yeah. 2:44:25.720 --> 2:44:28.600 But you know, but if this is actually a thing, 2:44:28.840 --> 2:44:32.080 right and federal agents is only grabbing vallmakers out of Illinois. 2:44:32.800 --> 2:44:36.560 That is that's a big deal. Yeah, that's a massive escalation. 2:44:36.800 --> 2:44:40.000 And that's why, as people fully supported by Pritzker's private militia, 2:44:40.200 --> 2:44:42.400 we will be on the front lines defending the Texas 2:44:42.440 --> 2:44:46.240 lav makers. That's right, saluting the Chicago flag. 2:44:46.560 --> 2:44:46.840 M hm. 2:44:47.400 --> 2:44:51.520 Yes, as as governor, Pritzker recently stated blood for the 2:44:51.600 --> 2:44:54.600 blood gods, skulls for the skull throne. Classic Pritzker. 2:44:55.160 --> 2:44:57.000 I mean, you need to do some Pritzker not even 2:44:57.080 --> 2:44:59.920 slander here. So just fuck you. Tiny bit of fun 2:45:00.200 --> 2:45:02.199 Pritzker news, which I was gonna talk about a little 2:45:02.200 --> 2:45:07.480 bit anyways later. But Pritzker has basically allowed a bunch 2:45:07.520 --> 2:45:10.959 of hospitals in Chicago to stop covering gender affirming care 2:45:11.040 --> 2:45:14.119 for minors, even though it's like illegal under Illinois state law. 2:45:14.720 --> 2:45:18.280 So fuck him for that. Eat shit. Yeah we we 2:45:18.440 --> 2:45:21.640 we will unfortunately oppose the Kannie of the Great Plains. 2:45:23.560 --> 2:45:26.600 And what's the reasoning there? Has he given any He was. 2:45:26.640 --> 2:45:28.160 Just like, oh, well they're gonna lose funding. 2:45:29.040 --> 2:45:32.320 Ah, oh no, it is over yeah, okay, yeahs it 2:45:32.440 --> 2:45:34.400 is over the threats. But like, yeah, a number of 2:45:34.480 --> 2:45:37.600 states have been have been something similar as brewing in Oregon, 2:45:37.720 --> 2:45:38.040 right now. 2:45:39.000 --> 2:45:40.920 Yeah, we've we've Yeah, this has been happening Oregon. We 2:45:41.320 --> 2:45:45.480 just had an episode about people resisting this in Pennsylvania. 2:45:45.800 --> 2:45:48.360 This will be a continuing, ongoing struggle. But I fuck 2:45:48.400 --> 2:45:49.480 you Pritzker eat shit. 2:45:50.200 --> 2:45:56.800 Like I do have two science stories for this middle 2:45:57.080 --> 2:46:02.160 segment here. First one, I'm gonna call on everyone's I 2:46:02.200 --> 2:46:04.439 don't know, probably my least favorite Kennedy. 2:46:04.879 --> 2:46:10.119 RFRS Wow controversial. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of bad Kennedys. 2:46:11.040 --> 2:46:15.160 After reviewing the science and consulting top experts at NIH 2:46:15.280 --> 2:46:20.960 and FDA, HHS has determined that mRNA technology poses more 2:46:21.080 --> 2:46:26.040 risks than benefits for these respiratory viruses. That's why, after 2:46:26.160 --> 2:46:30.119 extensive review, BARTA has begun the process of terminating these 2:46:30.200 --> 2:46:32.439 twenty two contracts totaling. 2:46:32.480 --> 2:46:34.240 Just under five hundred million dollars. 2:46:35.400 --> 2:46:39.600 To replace the troubled mRNA programs, we're prioritizing the development 2:46:39.640 --> 2:46:42.279 of the safer, broader vaccine strategies. 2:46:43.040 --> 2:46:45.680 Sure, sure thing, sure thing, mister Kennedy. 2:46:45.840 --> 2:46:47.320 Oh Jesus fucking Christ. 2:46:47.920 --> 2:46:50.800 Yeah that sounds true, and not like we're throwing away 2:46:50.920 --> 2:46:54.440 a holy grail of medical miracles. 2:46:54.080 --> 2:46:55.560 Literally won the Nobel Price. 2:46:56.080 --> 2:46:59.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, so this is this is some devastating 2:46:59.200 --> 2:47:03.320 news where he is removing twenty two contracts researchers and 2:47:03.400 --> 2:47:08.800 universities that are developing new mRNA vaccine technology and earlier 2:47:08.879 --> 2:47:10.400 in that video. So I'm not going to play because 2:47:10.400 --> 2:47:14.240 it's just him basically lying. But he was lying about 2:47:14.280 --> 2:47:18.760 how mRNA technology has been ineffective against upper respiratory infections 2:47:19.000 --> 2:47:21.560 because it only targets a single protein which not only 2:47:21.600 --> 2:47:24.959 becomes obsolete due to mutations, but actually accelerates the mutation 2:47:25.160 --> 2:47:26.879 process in prolongs pandemics. 2:47:27.440 --> 2:47:28.440 This is not true. 2:47:28.560 --> 2:47:30.880 You can no, it's not true. This is not true. 2:47:31.000 --> 2:47:34.439 And one of the most unique aspects of mRNA technology 2:47:34.840 --> 2:47:37.240 is that the vaccines can be developed at a much 2:47:37.560 --> 2:47:41.760 faster pace to be deployed against mutations. And even if 2:47:42.080 --> 2:47:45.199 a vaccine is not does not one hundred percent prevent 2:47:45.360 --> 2:47:49.000 an infection, that doesn't mean they still won't like decrease 2:47:49.040 --> 2:47:52.760 the severity of symptoms. He is trying to coat his 2:47:53.240 --> 2:47:58.400 decades decades long like anti vaccine advocacy in this like 2:47:58.520 --> 2:48:01.920 scientific language while actually just like stripping away all of 2:48:02.040 --> 2:48:05.040 the funding and removing access to vaccines. And this is 2:48:05.080 --> 2:48:06.720 the stuff that he promised not to do. In his 2:48:06.840 --> 2:48:08.720 confirmation hearings, he said that he would not take away 2:48:08.760 --> 2:48:11.400 vaccines yep, and he would not change who's on the 2:48:11.520 --> 2:48:12.840 vaccine advisory panels. 2:48:13.320 --> 2:48:14.720 He has done both of those things so far. 2:48:15.320 --> 2:48:17.440 Like two months ago, he fired all seventy members of 2:48:17.600 --> 2:48:20.640 the advisory panel. I talked with Cave about this, and 2:48:20.720 --> 2:48:23.920 he replaced them with eight anti vaxxers. And not only 2:48:23.959 --> 2:48:27.200 did he remove a multi billion dollar contract from Derna 2:48:27.480 --> 2:48:31.520 to continue mRNA vaccine research, he now canceled these twenty 2:48:31.560 --> 2:48:34.520 two other contracts, totally five hundred million dollars of technology. 2:48:34.720 --> 2:48:37.200 People are going to die and get sick because of 2:48:37.440 --> 2:48:40.720 these changes, yes, yeah, which doesn't just affect like COVID 2:48:40.840 --> 2:48:43.400 and the flu. It also affects all of the other 2:48:43.480 --> 2:48:47.560 ways that mRNA technology can be utilized. A lot of 2:48:47.600 --> 2:48:50.600 these research projects are about expanding the possible use of 2:48:50.680 --> 2:48:53.520 this technology beyond upper respiratory infections. 2:48:54.120 --> 2:48:55.279 So this sucks. 2:48:56.959 --> 2:48:58.039 Yeah, this is real bad. 2:48:58.120 --> 2:49:01.040 It's I am very nerve about the development of the 2:49:01.200 --> 2:49:04.240 HIV vaccine and cancer vaccines, things that we were getting 2:49:04.520 --> 2:49:08.440 so close to now being put intojeopardy because this fucking 2:49:08.520 --> 2:49:10.880 clown is in charge of health and human services. 2:49:11.720 --> 2:49:13.439 A ton of is who I've done at the Salkansche 2:49:13.520 --> 2:49:14.480 in San Diego, Itchile. 2:49:15.360 --> 2:49:19.640 It was reported earlier this week that some Republicans and 2:49:19.680 --> 2:49:22.960 Trump himself might actually not be happy about this. And 2:49:23.200 --> 2:49:26.080 Trump has a meeting scheduled with RFT Junior today to 2:49:26.240 --> 2:49:30.880 discuss these cancelations, so we'll see where that goes. In 2:49:31.440 --> 2:49:36.920 some other science news, Sean Duffy, interm NASA administrator who 2:49:36.959 --> 2:49:40.120 also has the Secretary of Transportation, who directed his employees 2:49:40.240 --> 2:49:44.879 to prioritize funding and grants to towards demographics with high 2:49:44.959 --> 2:49:50.320 marriage rates. He announced that he was expediating plans to 2:49:50.400 --> 2:49:53.160 launch and operate a one hundred kilowatt nuclear. 2:49:52.920 --> 2:49:54.680 Reactor for the Moon. 2:49:55.280 --> 2:49:58.040 Great. Look, there's a lot of people living on the 2:49:58.160 --> 2:50:01.800 Moon and power outages have been a constant problem there. Garrison, 2:50:01.959 --> 2:50:06.119 if this science fiction novel from the nineteen sixties is accurate. 2:50:06.879 --> 2:50:09.160 I talk with a friend of mine who is an 2:50:09.200 --> 2:50:14.200 anonymous NASA contractor. She gave a quote, quote I need 2:50:14.280 --> 2:50:15.959 a cigarette unquote. 2:50:17.120 --> 2:50:18.960 Great, because he just got fucked. 2:50:19.920 --> 2:50:21.760 It's also worth noting that all of this is coming 2:50:21.959 --> 2:50:26.119 in the context of the largest really like the largest 2:50:26.200 --> 2:50:28.840 cuts in the history of American science across the board 2:50:28.920 --> 2:50:32.720 to anything that's actually like I'm gonna get remotely doing science, 2:50:32.840 --> 2:50:34.680 Like yeah, sorry, I just I just want to go 2:50:34.720 --> 2:50:38.119 on it, especially space science. Like Duffy's trying to manufacture 2:50:38.160 --> 2:50:41.720 this new space race and prioritize like manned moon missions, 2:50:41.959 --> 2:50:46.360 all while cutting at least fifty percent all NASA science 2:50:46.400 --> 2:50:50.080 missions and just like absolutely crippling NASA's capacity to actually 2:50:50.080 --> 2:50:53.320 develop technology. Now, Duffy said at a press conference and 2:50:53.440 --> 2:50:55.640 end seeing this new directive on Tuesday, quote, we are 2:50:55.720 --> 2:50:59.640 in a race to the moon, a race with China 2:50:59.800 --> 2:51:02.880 to the moon, and to have a base on the moon, 2:51:03.080 --> 2:51:07.760 we need energy. Unquote is that fucking nineteen fifty talk? 2:51:07.840 --> 2:51:09.959 What are you talking about? That is the time when 2:51:10.000 --> 2:51:11.440 the greatness happened Garson. 2:51:12.000 --> 2:51:13.440 They want to go back to that. 2:51:13.920 --> 2:51:17.240 The NASA contractor I spoke with said, quote, NASA is 2:51:17.320 --> 2:51:20.520 already down at least twenty percent of its workforce and 2:51:20.680 --> 2:51:23.640 behind on its previously announced to lunar missions and objectives 2:51:23.879 --> 2:51:26.880 see the Lunar Gateway and Artemis three. I just don't 2:51:26.879 --> 2:51:30.400 immediately see a world where NASA does this successfully, even 2:51:30.440 --> 2:51:32.959 if they go the route of contracting it out. If 2:51:33.000 --> 2:51:36.720 the success. Specifically, the lack thereof of the Commercial Lunar 2:51:36.800 --> 2:51:41.400 Payload Services Program and the Commercial LEEO Destinations program has 2:51:41.520 --> 2:51:43.680 any indication for how this will go. It will be 2:51:43.760 --> 2:51:47.560 mirrored in failure and many years behind schedule at best 2:51:47.879 --> 2:51:51.120 un quote. This new NASA directive from Shan Daffey calls 2:51:51.200 --> 2:51:55.520 for a Fission Surface Power Program Executive to be named 2:51:55.560 --> 2:52:00.600 by the end of August, who will then yes, yes, impleant, 2:52:00.640 --> 2:52:03.959 and oversee the project while reporting directly to the NASA Administrator. 2:52:04.040 --> 2:52:07.760 The directive reads quote. Since March twenty twenty four, China 2:52:07.920 --> 2:52:10.960 and Russia have announced on at least three occasions a 2:52:11.120 --> 2:52:13.120 joint effort to place a reactor on the Moon by 2:52:13.120 --> 2:52:15.320 the mid twenty thirties. The first country to do so 2:52:15.400 --> 2:52:18.800 could potentially declare a keep out zone, which would significantly 2:52:18.840 --> 2:52:22.560 inhibit the United States from establishing a planned Artemis presence 2:52:22.720 --> 2:52:27.480 if not their first unquote. And this is I think 2:52:27.520 --> 2:52:29.960 a big part of why Duffy is wanting to do this, 2:52:30.280 --> 2:52:33.240 and the contractor I spoke to you said quote, if 2:52:33.240 --> 2:52:36.920 they're able to extend some quote unquote exclusion zone around 2:52:37.160 --> 2:52:40.279 a reactor on the surface where other countries aren't allowed 2:52:40.360 --> 2:52:42.720 to land. It's not difficult to imagine that they may 2:52:42.800 --> 2:52:46.120 try to use this to de facto claim areas of 2:52:46.240 --> 2:52:48.160 the Moon for the United States. 2:52:48.560 --> 2:52:49.080 Unquote. 2:52:49.400 --> 2:52:52.119 Hell yeah, we have colonized the Moon. 2:52:52.640 --> 2:52:57.200 And there is even more troubling use cases. Part of 2:52:57.240 --> 2:53:00.240 the directive reads that this would quote encourage do will 2:53:00.560 --> 2:53:06.119 use civil and defense operational architectures, Yes, for deployed fission 2:53:06.680 --> 2:53:12.840 surface power systems in coordination with interagency partners Moon base unquote. 2:53:13.120 --> 2:53:16.360 Space Force finally getting its moment in the sun on 2:53:16.480 --> 2:53:16.800 the Moon. 2:53:16.879 --> 2:53:18.640 I guess this really is just like. 2:53:18.760 --> 2:53:23.400 The pure unspeakable tragedy is unspeakable first version of colonialism, 2:53:23.440 --> 2:53:26.400 because it's like the Moon is the one place that 2:53:26.560 --> 2:53:30.040 is actually tyrannualists and there's nothing there and there's nothing 2:53:30.240 --> 2:53:36.040 to gain from being there. There's just nothing. But you know, 2:53:36.200 --> 2:53:37.560 we got to colonize it. 2:53:37.760 --> 2:53:40.280 Yeah, but the sun ever sets on the American Empire 2:53:40.320 --> 2:53:42.440 if you've got the Moon on it as well, so 2:53:42.520 --> 2:53:43.560 you got that going for you. 2:53:44.240 --> 2:53:48.040 It's just just it's just pure drive of colonialism detached 2:53:48.320 --> 2:53:52.000 from its actual like material motives. 2:53:52.520 --> 2:53:55.320 Having failed to gain Greenland, we will pivot and take 2:53:55.400 --> 2:53:56.320 the Moon instead. 2:53:57.160 --> 2:53:59.200 I mean, you know, the moon and Greenland are both 2:53:59.480 --> 2:54:01.360 similar habitable territories, so. 2:54:01.760 --> 2:54:04.440 It's true, but you can't do backflips in Greenland. 2:54:04.600 --> 2:54:07.880 So like, this is the plant of despicable meat. Like 2:54:08.400 --> 2:54:10.640 that's what we're doing here, We're doing the plaut of 2:54:10.680 --> 2:54:11.280 despicable me. 2:54:13.240 --> 2:54:17.920 Yeah, many science fiction movies have predicted this, Please send 2:54:17.959 --> 2:54:18.960 them all to us. 2:54:19.200 --> 2:54:21.720 Yes, as was noted by Robert Heinlend, the moon is 2:54:21.800 --> 2:54:25.800 indeed a harsh mistress. Wait, what is that I hear? 2:54:26.400 --> 2:54:28.240 Is that the tariff song? 2:54:32.480 --> 2:54:42.519 Rocky jazz, rocky jazz. Sorry, rocky jazz, rocky. 2:54:42.560 --> 2:54:47.960 Jazz, ah god, every time, every time, it's good. 2:54:48.480 --> 2:54:50.640 Let's talk tariff tariffs. There's so many of them. The 2:54:50.720 --> 2:54:54.280 tariffs have gone into effect. So all right, we're gonna 2:54:54.280 --> 2:54:57.320 do a full episode about this on Monday, because there 2:54:57.440 --> 2:55:00.480 is so much tariff bullshit that it quite for needs 2:55:00.480 --> 2:55:02.360 its own actual episode in which we're going to be 2:55:02.440 --> 2:55:07.680 talking about shit like, for example, the US has maybe 2:55:07.800 --> 2:55:10.840 on accident, maybe on purpose, recognized the Junta meen Maar 2:55:10.959 --> 2:55:13.520 is the legitimate government to the tariff stuff. We're talking 2:55:13.520 --> 2:55:15.120 about that on Monday because we don't have time for 2:55:15.160 --> 2:55:19.080 that shit. What we instead have time for is the 2:55:19.560 --> 2:55:23.760 just massive array of tariffs on a list of countries 2:55:23.840 --> 2:55:27.520 so long that we just genuinely can't read them all. Okay, 2:55:27.720 --> 2:55:30.600 this is a very very confusing raft of tariffs. In 2:55:30.640 --> 2:55:33.600 a lot of ways, it's simpler than the other ones. 2:55:33.879 --> 2:55:36.920 But okay, so so Persian, And if the US runs 2:55:36.959 --> 2:55:39.000 a trade deficit with you and you're not also in 2:55:39.040 --> 2:55:41.400 one of the other special categories where we have imposed 2:55:41.520 --> 2:55:43.480 a really high tariff on you, it's like fifteen percent. 2:55:43.879 --> 2:55:47.000 If we have a trade surplus with the country we 2:55:47.160 --> 2:55:51.480 imposed a ten percent tariff. This doesn't make any sense, sure, Okay. 2:55:51.560 --> 2:55:53.119 So it's like in terms of the state of motives 2:55:53.160 --> 2:55:55.200 of the tariffs, it doesn't make any sense except in 2:55:55.320 --> 2:55:59.000 terms of like raising money, which these raised very little 2:55:59.120 --> 2:56:01.360 actual money run relative to like the amount of money 2:56:01.400 --> 2:56:02.240 the US spends. 2:56:02.560 --> 2:56:02.800 I mean. 2:56:03.080 --> 2:56:07.200 Right wing commentators have stated that the end goal of 2:56:07.560 --> 2:56:10.680 this massive tariff program is to abolish income tax because 2:56:10.720 --> 2:56:12.480 we can fund the government through TIFFs. 2:56:12.560 --> 2:56:16.160 Actually great, yeah, and I just know that, No, you 2:56:16.280 --> 2:56:20.960 can't like this, No, this is just yeah. At the 2:56:21.000 --> 2:56:24.320 same time as said, driving the deficit into the fucking sky. 2:56:24.560 --> 2:56:27.280 Like yeah, And we've talked about the sort of riffs 2:56:27.320 --> 2:56:29.240 that this has caused with like the sort of true 2:56:29.280 --> 2:56:34.720 believer deficit hawks versus these just completely unhinged fund the 2:56:34.760 --> 2:56:38.040 government with tariff weirdos. But Comma, there have been a 2:56:38.160 --> 2:56:40.520 huge number of countries that now we have fifteen percent 2:56:40.560 --> 2:56:45.200 tariffs on We've also gotten a formal announcement of the 2:56:45.280 --> 2:56:48.960 one hundred percent tariffs on semiconductors unless you invest do 2:56:49.120 --> 2:56:52.080 some kind of certificant investment in the US. It's deeply 2:56:52.240 --> 2:56:57.040 unclear what the fuck that means. Apple hasn't pledged to 2:56:57.120 --> 2:57:00.560 invest one hundred billion dollars in the US. There's this 2:57:01.200 --> 2:57:04.240 very very weird thing on the right where like they 2:57:04.360 --> 2:57:07.440 just they think that you can make iPhones here. You can't. 2:57:07.720 --> 2:57:09.920 You just simply cannot. We you don't have the labor force, 2:57:09.959 --> 2:57:12.800 you don't have the technology. Yeah, but Tim Cook did 2:57:13.000 --> 2:57:14.039 just bribe Trump with a. 2:57:14.920 --> 2:57:19.520 Nice plate golden iPhone, big ing get to gold. 2:57:19.800 --> 2:57:22.520 So I thought it was a gold iPhone. There was 2:57:22.560 --> 2:57:23.760 some glass involved. 2:57:23.480 --> 2:57:24.880 As well, No, it was it was it was a 2:57:24.959 --> 2:57:28.760 plate that was on like a gold like brick base. 2:57:29.440 --> 2:57:31.120 I love that. Yeah, that's the way we're doing now 2:57:32.240 --> 2:57:33.320 beside it under the radar. 2:57:34.879 --> 2:57:35.119 Cool. 2:57:35.440 --> 2:57:38.959 You have to bribe the Supreme ruler by giving gifts 2:57:39.000 --> 2:57:41.600 of gold to grand good favor o. 2:57:42.000 --> 2:57:42.800 God it is. 2:57:44.600 --> 2:57:48.080 It's like fucking smoke whatever, Like it has this pile 2:57:48.120 --> 2:57:50.039 of gold that he's going to be sitting on. It's 2:57:50.040 --> 2:57:52.320 going to be Scrooge mcducking in that ship by the 2:57:52.440 --> 2:57:53.120 end of four years. 2:57:53.120 --> 2:57:55.160 Oh, don't get us started on darktails. 2:57:55.320 --> 2:57:59.640 Oh no, no, no, no, Yeah, that'll really inflate the 2:57:59.720 --> 2:58:02.279 length of this episode. That's what they call a layup 2:58:02.480 --> 2:58:06.320 in nine sports ball. Yeah, what's the tear us up too? 2:58:06.640 --> 2:58:09.960 They're calling me the fucking webbin Yabo, fucking a fucking 2:58:10.360 --> 2:58:13.680 inflation shop blocking. Fuck this we're talking about. We're talking 2:58:13.680 --> 2:58:16.680 about hip infrastructure. People have been trying to develop like 2:58:16.800 --> 2:58:18.600 the infrastructure developed ships for a long time. 2:58:18.640 --> 2:58:18.760 Now. 2:58:18.800 --> 2:58:21.600 The Biden administration did this. The Chinese government isn't boring 2:58:21.600 --> 2:58:23.520 a bunch of money into it. And it's basically impossible 2:58:23.560 --> 2:58:27.040 to actually develop domestic hip infrastructure other than the kinds 2:58:27.080 --> 2:58:30.600 of infrastructure that the US already has, because the really 2:58:30.640 --> 2:58:33.560 short version of it is that it's not just a 2:58:33.680 --> 2:58:36.640 technological problem, and it is it's really hard to actually 2:58:36.640 --> 2:58:38.880 felt the technology. This is why almost all of the 2:58:39.680 --> 2:58:42.199 direct productions off the're trying to replicate basically just happens 2:58:42.200 --> 2:58:45.760 in Taiwan. It's not just a problem of the technology 2:58:45.840 --> 2:58:48.920 is really hard. It's a problem of the machines to 2:58:49.080 --> 2:58:52.840 make the machines that you need to make. These things 2:58:53.400 --> 2:58:56.560 exist in like one place in the world, in Switzerland, right, 2:58:56.959 --> 2:58:59.720 So in order to actually scale up production of this 2:58:59.800 --> 2:59:02.160 would just in theory, what these one hundred percent imported 2:59:02.200 --> 2:59:05.120 semi conductor tariffs are supposed to do. Right, You have 2:59:05.280 --> 2:59:08.760 to go up three layers of the supply chain. You 2:59:08.840 --> 2:59:10.480 have to make the machines to make the machines that 2:59:10.560 --> 2:59:13.039 make the machines that make the semi conductors. Right, That's 2:59:13.080 --> 2:59:14.840 like the simplest way to explain it. 2:59:15.600 --> 2:59:15.880 We don't. 2:59:16.160 --> 2:59:17.920 We can't fucking do that, like a we could throw 2:59:17.920 --> 2:59:20.400 a fucking hundred billion dollars, that's what they would do. Shit, Right, 2:59:20.800 --> 2:59:24.960 So they're chasing just a ghost. But you know, our 2:59:25.160 --> 2:59:28.080 entire sort of like trade policy is just being run 2:59:28.280 --> 2:59:34.040 by the just weird, fascist, miasmic phantoms of all of 2:59:34.120 --> 2:59:37.600 these trade policy people. Now, it's also worth noting that 2:59:37.680 --> 2:59:41.560 there's been you know, another I guess kind of tariff 2:59:41.600 --> 2:59:44.400 that's been enacted other than hilariously the countries that tried 2:59:44.400 --> 2:59:47.160 to negotiate with Trump got worse rates than the ones 2:59:47.200 --> 2:59:49.240 who just waited until the imposted fifteen percent rate. 2:59:49.920 --> 2:59:53.040 Generally that's good, it's funny. 2:59:53.320 --> 2:59:54.440 But also so. 2:59:54.760 --> 2:59:58.240 Trump has been threatening anyone who buys oil from Russia, 2:59:58.400 --> 3:00:01.200 and also I think then is weyla although it's been 3:00:01.400 --> 3:00:04.320 less for US on that with fifty percent tariffs. Right 3:00:04.440 --> 3:00:07.959 now he's threatening India with fifty percent tariffs because India 3:00:07.959 --> 3:00:10.120 has been buying oil from Russia that India's tariffs are 3:00:10.120 --> 3:00:13.160 currently a twenty five percent. He has also just straight 3:00:13.240 --> 3:00:15.959 up imposed to fifty percent tariff on Brazil for refusing 3:00:16.000 --> 3:00:19.400 to release Bolsonaro. There's been some updates on that front 3:00:19.480 --> 3:00:22.640 where Lula is just straight up refusing to do direct 3:00:22.680 --> 3:00:24.960 talks at the US. Lula had an exclusive interview with 3:00:25.080 --> 3:00:28.800 Reuters where he said, quote, we had already pardoned the 3:00:28.920 --> 3:00:31.600 US interventions in the nineteen sixty four coup, said Lula, 3:00:31.640 --> 3:00:34.160 who got his political stri blah blah. Listen, listen to 3:00:34.200 --> 3:00:36.720 the Lula episodes we did, They're very good. More more 3:00:36.800 --> 3:00:39.240 Lula quote, but this is now not a small intervention. 3:00:39.400 --> 3:00:41.400 It's the president of the United States thinking he can 3:00:41.520 --> 3:00:45.520 dictate rules for a sovereign country like Brazil, it's unacceptable. 3:00:45.959 --> 3:00:48.360 It's worth noting that this is actually a pretty massive 3:00:49.040 --> 3:00:52.320 change for like Lula specifically relations with the US. Lula 3:00:52.400 --> 3:00:55.600 actually had very good relations with George Bush. But he 3:00:55.760 --> 3:01:00.000 is writing a massive tide of Brazilian anti American nationalists, 3:01:00.240 --> 3:01:03.320 and he's attempting to spread this tide elsewhere. 3:01:03.400 --> 3:01:03.520 Right. 3:01:03.600 --> 3:01:07.600 He's been specifically saying that he's calling on organized resistance 3:01:07.600 --> 3:01:10.039 from particularly India and China. But the rest of bricks, 3:01:10.640 --> 3:01:14.439 which is a well, okay, bricks was originally a category 3:01:14.480 --> 3:01:18.440 of assets that's now kind of a vaguely a political alliance. 3:01:18.480 --> 3:01:21.920 Who's made members are Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. 3:01:22.480 --> 3:01:25.560 It's unclear if this will happen. I kind of I 3:01:25.560 --> 3:01:29.400 don't know, but Lula is the first person really really 3:01:29.520 --> 3:01:32.680 seriously trying to organize resistance to this outside of the EU. 3:01:33.760 --> 3:01:36.040 The EU's also wonder a thread of thirty percent tariffs 3:01:36.040 --> 3:01:38.359 if they don't just sort of like see the Trump's demands. 3:01:38.440 --> 3:01:41.560 But like you know, again, India also negotiated a deal 3:01:41.600 --> 3:01:43.960 with the US and then immediately got their tariffs, like 3:01:44.080 --> 3:01:46.120 he's now being threatened with eighty percent tariffs, so you 3:01:46.200 --> 3:01:50.000 can't negotiate with him to escape this. So I don't know, Lula, 3:01:50.080 --> 3:01:52.200 maybe this is the beginning of sort of organized, like 3:01:52.360 --> 3:01:56.440 large scale organized terriff resistance to the US being framed 3:01:56.480 --> 3:01:59.160 in this sort of like collective struggle versus the US thing. 3:01:59.360 --> 3:02:01.560 That's an interesting political trend that will be following as 3:02:01.600 --> 3:02:06.360 all of this continues. Okay, and the rest of the 3:02:07.240 --> 3:02:09.880 unhinged amount of tariff news we're going to be covering Monday. 3:02:10.600 --> 3:02:13.440 I will make a brief note that the Yale Budget 3:02:13.520 --> 3:02:16.440 Lab is estimating like like a twenty four hundred dollars 3:02:16.480 --> 3:02:18.680 increase for the average family just in terms of like 3:02:19.080 --> 3:02:24.240 inflation prices for this, especially on things like clothing. They 3:02:24.240 --> 3:02:26.520 are specifically, I think there's a Ceneta articleipus. They're specifically 3:02:26.560 --> 3:02:30.800 talking about running shorts and shoes and anything any goods 3:02:30.840 --> 3:02:34.199 from South Asia massively increasing in price at talking thirty 3:02:34.200 --> 3:02:38.840 percent increases very quickly. So yeah, now, obviously all of 3:02:38.920 --> 3:02:42.480 this news is I don't know, the stock market has 3:02:42.560 --> 3:02:46.720 kind of like accustomed itself to tariff news. Yeah, but COMA, 3:02:46.760 --> 3:02:49.680 we've got a really really bad job support last month, and. 3:02:50.120 --> 3:02:52.959 Well actually, well well I don't know if that's true. 3:02:53.120 --> 3:02:56.520 I think the jobs report could be completely faked. Yeah, 3:02:56.560 --> 3:02:59.280 who can say, Jesus, if the president says it, it 3:02:59.360 --> 3:03:02.240 has to be true. It's a Biden did you have 3:03:02.240 --> 3:03:06.359 a Biden appointee? All crazy crazy. 3:03:06.560 --> 3:03:12.600 The auto pen is issued to his job's report. So yeah, Trump, 3:03:12.640 --> 3:03:16.120 Trump has fired the Commission of the Bureau of Labor 3:03:16.120 --> 3:03:19.840 Statistics for releasing this report. We are just we are 3:03:20.000 --> 3:03:22.960 just truly fully into the deep end of shit now, 3:03:23.200 --> 3:03:23.720 Like the. 3:03:23.800 --> 3:03:27.440 Report just showed that we didn't have very positive job grouths, 3:03:27.520 --> 3:03:30.040 and like anyone who's trying to get a job right 3:03:30.080 --> 3:03:31.120 now can confirm that. 3:03:31.320 --> 3:03:33.680 It's like a nightmare. Yeah, and yeah, we're just like 3:03:33.760 --> 3:03:37.200 we're just like fully going to be in Like, you know, 3:03:37.720 --> 3:03:41.160 it's unclear exactly how fast American data collection capacity is 3:03:41.200 --> 3:03:43.080 going to degrade. It is worth noting this is the 3:03:43.120 --> 3:03:44.840 thing that kind of happens at the end of dictatorships 3:03:44.879 --> 3:03:47.200 when they really start going to shit, is that they 3:03:47.320 --> 3:03:49.560 lose the ability to trust their artistical apparatus. 3:03:50.040 --> 3:03:52.920 Yeah, I mean, like anything that happens that Trump just 3:03:53.040 --> 3:03:55.120 doesn't like, you can claim it's fake and rigged. 3:03:55.480 --> 3:03:56.760 Whether that's losing an election. 3:03:57.200 --> 3:04:01.359 Whether that's his good, his good close personal friend Jeffrey Epstein, 3:04:01.680 --> 3:04:04.199 or if that's a Bureau of Labor Statistics job report, 3:04:04.640 --> 3:04:06.280 it's all rigged. It's all a hope. 3:04:06.360 --> 3:04:06.520 Yeah. 3:04:06.879 --> 3:04:07.080 Yeah. 3:04:07.280 --> 3:04:09.360 But to tie this back to Lula for a second, 3:04:09.440 --> 3:04:12.680 I think it's actually really a really interesting historical parallel 3:04:12.720 --> 3:04:17.160 that's worth noting that Lula's rise to political prominence came 3:04:17.320 --> 3:04:20.000 off of a series of shrikes that was held because 3:04:20.600 --> 3:04:22.840 because a bunch of economists that were working with the 3:04:22.879 --> 3:04:25.840 inside the Brazilian labor unions figured out the military dictatorship 3:04:25.840 --> 3:04:28.600 of Brazil had been faking their inflation numbers, and like, 3:04:28.879 --> 3:04:30.400 this is one of the things that caused the end 3:04:30.440 --> 3:04:33.600 of the dictatorship. So you know, you can only lie 3:04:33.640 --> 3:04:37.039 about the inflation rate for so long before like someone 3:04:37.200 --> 3:04:39.720 goes like, hey, you've been lying about this the whole time, 3:04:40.120 --> 3:04:42.760 and I don't know this has this has brought down 3:04:42.840 --> 3:04:45.440 military katters just before, and that's why we have to 3:04:45.560 --> 3:04:48.920 hold archive of our own accountable for faking those inflation numbers. 3:04:49.480 --> 3:04:51.000 I agree with you entirely, Garrison. 3:04:51.040 --> 3:04:53.000 I don't get paid enough for this. He's lost me 3:04:54.320 --> 3:04:57.240 not following and yeah, that has been terriff talk. 3:04:58.040 --> 3:05:00.440 You know what will continue to be of available to 3:05:00.520 --> 3:05:05.800 our listeners at an excellent price despite tariffs, the products 3:05:05.800 --> 3:05:10.040 and services that support this podcast. That's absolutely correct, Garrison, 3:05:10.080 --> 3:05:26.400 well done. All right, we're back, so bad And also 3:05:26.600 --> 3:05:30.480 back is the United Kingdom, where a poll shows that 3:05:30.600 --> 3:05:33.039 more than half of Britain's think there are more migrants 3:05:33.120 --> 3:05:36.880 in the UK illegally than legally. This isn't true, no, 3:05:37.080 --> 3:05:40.680 but feelings matter way more than facts. Failings matter, yes 3:05:40.760 --> 3:05:44.200 they do. The actual data, even at the highest estimate 3:05:44.240 --> 3:05:47.520 of undocumented people, shows that it's around ten times more 3:05:47.560 --> 3:05:50.760 foreign people who are in the UK with documents. This 3:05:50.959 --> 3:05:55.240 is indicative of a broader issue, right that the discussions 3:05:55.520 --> 3:05:58.840 we're having around immigration are nearly all based on massive 3:05:58.879 --> 3:06:04.440 amounts of misinformy. Misinformation by a mission was extremely common 3:06:04.560 --> 3:06:09.160 in legacy media until very recently, right like, there was 3:06:09.200 --> 3:06:14.480 simply not people covering immigration in a serious fashion. Even 3:06:14.560 --> 3:06:20.320 in the Biden administration, the reporting that was done was atrocious. 3:06:21.120 --> 3:06:23.440 This comes as the Labor government's disapproval rating in the 3:06:23.560 --> 3:06:27.039 UK hit sixty seven percent in a yugo of pol 3:06:27.440 --> 3:06:30.280 which I think is very indicative. What Labor did right 3:06:30.400 --> 3:06:33.080 was try to adopt right wing culture war positions to 3:06:33.480 --> 3:06:37.000 get people to vote for them, and it does not work, 3:06:37.080 --> 3:06:39.160 and it is not working for them. You can look 3:06:39.160 --> 3:06:42.440 at their policies towards trans people, right, they're atrocious, and 3:06:42.600 --> 3:06:45.840 it's not buying them to favor they wanted to moving 3:06:45.959 --> 3:06:49.560 back to the United States. Yon sou Go, she's called 3:06:49.840 --> 3:06:53.080 Sue by her friends. It's been released by Ice after 3:06:53.160 --> 3:06:55.959 being detained at a routine hearing. A twenty year old 3:06:56.080 --> 3:07:00.240 young woman as a Korean national South Korean evidently right, 3:07:00.560 --> 3:07:02.720 and the daughter of a priest. So she's here on 3:07:03.600 --> 3:07:07.400 a visa as a dependent of a religious worker. There 3:07:07.400 --> 3:07:09.879 are religious worker visas, and she's here as a dependent. 3:07:10.280 --> 3:07:12.640 She is I believe in the process of transitioning to 3:07:12.800 --> 3:07:18.400 a student visa. She had the hearing, her case wasn't 3:07:18.760 --> 3:07:22.120 dismissed or evoked. She had another hearing set for October. 3:07:22.840 --> 3:07:25.800 I claim that she overstayed her visa. Her lawyer says, 3:07:25.840 --> 3:07:28.880 I claim it's not true. I'm particularly interested in this 3:07:29.080 --> 3:07:33.720 case because of the intervention of the diocese, the Episcopalian 3:07:33.800 --> 3:07:36.800 Diocese of New York, and so it was the Episcopalian 3:07:36.840 --> 3:07:40.000 Diocese New York's legal team who fought for her release. 3:07:40.400 --> 3:07:43.520 She was very quickly moved to Louisiana. We know that 3:07:43.760 --> 3:07:45.520 ICE likes so do this right. It likes to move 3:07:45.560 --> 3:07:47.600 people to places where it feels like it has a 3:07:47.680 --> 3:07:50.720 favorable circuit court. The dioces of legal team was able 3:07:50.840 --> 3:07:52.880 to secure her release, but they are still working on 3:07:52.959 --> 3:07:54.760 the rease of a fifty nine year old ProView and 3:07:54.760 --> 3:07:57.720 asylum seeker who has been detained after having her court 3:07:57.800 --> 3:07:59.920 date moved up. So in her case, they said, hey, 3:08:00.040 --> 3:08:02.400 we've got a hearing that's opened up. When don't you 3:08:02.440 --> 3:08:05.440 come in on Thursday and then detained her, which is 3:08:05.600 --> 3:08:09.360 just reprehensible. It is really good. I think that these 3:08:09.480 --> 3:08:14.040 big religious organizations are getting involved directly in these cases, 3:08:14.120 --> 3:08:17.000 that they are taking on responsibility, that they're using their 3:08:17.040 --> 3:08:21.280 pulpits as a place to oppose this. I think that's good. 3:08:21.400 --> 3:08:24.560 I think, regardless of your stance, aren't organized religion, you 3:08:24.600 --> 3:08:27.640 should be happy about that. These are institutions that have 3:08:27.720 --> 3:08:31.600 power in this country. Talking of institutions that have power, 3:08:31.879 --> 3:08:36.640 detainees in Florida's Alligator Alcatraz are being denied their right 3:08:36.720 --> 3:08:40.480 to file court documents because federal courts are claiming they're 3:08:40.560 --> 3:08:44.600 not under federal jurisdiction. State courts are claiming they're not 3:08:44.680 --> 3:08:47.240 under state jurisdiction, which is fairly reasonable given that they 3:08:47.800 --> 3:08:50.680 have not been charged, whether or accused of, in many cases, 3:08:50.720 --> 3:08:53.080 any crimes in the state of Florida. Right then, they're 3:08:53.120 --> 3:08:55.959 not being held They were not detained by well, sometimes 3:08:56.000 --> 3:08:57.960 they were detained by Florida law enforcement, I guess, but 3:08:58.040 --> 3:09:00.720 only in their capacity to enforce federal immigrates law. Yes, 3:09:01.600 --> 3:09:04.680 with the special deputized nawty, Yes, it's yeah, it's deputies, 3:09:04.720 --> 3:09:06.720 which we're about to talk about. There have been some 3:09:06.840 --> 3:09:09.680 very funny outcomes of that. This isn't it like I've 3:09:09.720 --> 3:09:11.760 seen it report as a loophole. It's not a loophole. 3:09:12.040 --> 3:09:14.920 It's extremely fucking clear that they were detained by the 3:09:15.000 --> 3:09:20.000 federal government for immigration reasons, and they have every right 3:09:20.120 --> 3:09:24.240 to representation in immigration court right that this is not 3:09:24.320 --> 3:09:29.400 a loophole. They're just denying people their rights, and I 3:09:29.480 --> 3:09:32.920 think reporting it as a loophole is entirely ridiculous. A 3:09:33.000 --> 3:09:35.640 judge has ordered a document showing who is contracted by 3:09:35.680 --> 3:09:37.840 whom at the facility be produced as part of a 3:09:37.879 --> 3:09:40.560 civil rights lawsuit. So what that will do would obviously 3:09:40.640 --> 3:09:42.599 document in the federal government's. 3:09:42.120 --> 3:09:43.360 Paying some of this. 3:09:43.600 --> 3:09:47.879 I know Rick DeSantis had wanted to use FEMA money 3:09:48.120 --> 3:09:51.760 for some of this breaking news. So Federal Judge Kathleen 3:09:51.800 --> 3:09:57.360 Williams has ordered the construction new construction holt. They won't 3:09:57.360 --> 3:09:59.520 be allowed to do any new filling, paving, or infrastructre 3:09:59.520 --> 3:10:04.320 building for fourteen days temporary pause. They can still continue 3:10:04.360 --> 3:10:07.120 to hold people right like. This is not going to 3:10:07.160 --> 3:10:10.360 stop those people being denied their rights, which is what 3:10:10.520 --> 3:10:12.879 sort of stake here. So we talked a little bit 3:10:12.920 --> 3:10:16.600 about those Florida deputies right who have been I guess 3:10:16.680 --> 3:10:20.680 secondid to ICE orgs. They've been crossworn to do ICE work. 3:10:21.080 --> 3:10:24.440 ICE is recruiting very heavily right now. I'm offering fifty 3:10:24.520 --> 3:10:29.040 thousand dollars sign on bonuses. It has reduced the minimum 3:10:29.120 --> 3:10:31.880 age and it seems to have no maximum age cap. 3:10:32.640 --> 3:10:35.200 From what I can tell, this thing. Border Patrol has 3:10:35.240 --> 3:10:37.920 been issuing all kinds of waivers for years, right for 3:10:37.959 --> 3:10:39.840 all kinds of things that it's supposed to have as 3:10:39.920 --> 3:10:42.480 like standard for its recruiting. So it isn't particularly new. 3:10:43.240 --> 3:10:45.720 ICE has been known for a while as kind of 3:10:45.840 --> 3:10:48.080 if you want to be a FED and go around 3:10:48.080 --> 3:10:51.120 and carry a gun, and you can't get hired to 3:10:51.240 --> 3:10:54.040 do gun stuff for the FED. To other agencies, ICE 3:10:54.160 --> 3:10:56.080 is probably the place you're going to end up, right, 3:10:56.760 --> 3:11:00.280 their standards are lower than other agencies. 3:11:00.120 --> 3:11:03.840 And now they're like specifically selecting for the most like 3:11:04.040 --> 3:11:08.119 online unhinged right wing free to join their agency as 3:11:08.240 --> 3:11:11.080 like a national police force. Yes, and that's like what 3:11:11.200 --> 3:11:15.000 they're doing in their messaging online. And also some news 3:11:15.080 --> 3:11:18.720 this week Dean Kane has has joined I. Yeah, yeah, 3:11:18.959 --> 3:11:23.640 it's most likely in like a promotional capacity, but still 3:11:23.800 --> 3:11:24.400 worth noting. 3:11:24.640 --> 3:11:27.720 Yeah, you might get chased by middle aged superman. So 3:11:28.200 --> 3:11:30.480 let's talk about what I was doing to recruiter festival. 3:11:30.600 --> 3:11:34.720 It is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on big trucks. 3:11:35.080 --> 3:11:37.160 We know Donald Trump himself, it's a found of big trucks, 3:11:37.280 --> 3:11:40.280 many pictures of him enjoying big trucks. Over the years, 3:11:40.879 --> 3:11:43.520 ICE has spent one hundred and ninety six thousand dollars 3:11:43.680 --> 3:11:48.080 on Ford raptors for recruiting purposes. The raptor, for those 3:11:48.200 --> 3:11:50.360 not familiar, is like a tricked out F one fifty. 3:11:50.840 --> 3:11:54.120 They were issuing raptors to field agents for a while. 3:11:54.640 --> 3:11:56.880 They're not the best vehicles. Like, I've had plenty of 3:11:56.920 --> 3:11:58.320 agents complain about the raptism. 3:11:58.480 --> 3:12:00.360 Yeah they're not yeah, yeah know. 3:12:00.400 --> 3:12:04.440 And the BP had a special lowest possible trim of 3:12:04.520 --> 3:12:07.200 the raptor that like, they're popular now because people will 3:12:07.200 --> 3:12:09.400 buy them used as government surplus and make them good. 3:12:09.480 --> 3:12:12.960 But they yeah, the raptors they had didn't work too well. 3:12:13.040 --> 3:12:16.440 They also bought a GMC Yukon for one hundred and 3:12:16.600 --> 3:12:21.080 one thousand dollars, which is a very expensive GMC Yukon. 3:12:21.640 --> 3:12:25.600 I have also noted that ICE is recruiting from the 3:12:25.800 --> 3:12:29.160 police who have been cross sworn into doing ICE enforcement. 3:12:29.520 --> 3:12:33.000 This has resulted in some very funny beefs between agencies 3:12:33.360 --> 3:12:36.680 including can I share this video? Can I screenshare? 3:12:37.280 --> 3:12:37.480 Yeah? 3:12:37.840 --> 3:12:39.000 Yeah, let's that's what's the video. 3:12:39.520 --> 3:12:42.959 And then what has happened is ICE has sent emails 3:12:43.080 --> 3:12:46.720 to I don't know how many agencies by no, several agencies. 3:12:46.760 --> 3:12:50.160 I've talked to several sheriffs that their debuts have received 3:12:50.200 --> 3:12:54.039 these this request and basically it's a recruiting tactic. It's hey, 3:12:54.400 --> 3:12:57.880 we got your email, now you got certified, And there's 3:12:57.920 --> 3:13:00.600 something like dear colleague, you showed an interest in this 3:13:00.800 --> 3:13:02.440 and that, and we won't let you know that we 3:13:02.520 --> 3:13:06.600 are offering a fifty thousand dollars bonus paid ten thousand 3:13:06.600 --> 3:13:07.840 dollars at a time, and it. 3:13:08.000 --> 3:13:11.080 Is for five years. Obviously, man, is that not you know? 3:13:11.160 --> 3:13:12.200 Biden handed feeds you. 3:13:12.320 --> 3:13:15.560 We we went through all of that, took our time, 3:13:15.800 --> 3:13:18.520 utilizing our local resource, not ours yet. 3:13:18.520 --> 3:13:21.600 But local resources. And then they try to recruit you right. 3:13:21.520 --> 3:13:24.000 Out for Monday, using the very emails that we give you. 3:13:24.840 --> 3:13:26.680 Finally they've found something bad. 3:13:26.800 --> 3:13:27.480 Ice is done. 3:13:28.480 --> 3:13:31.000 Yeah, this is a new low even for Ice. 3:13:31.879 --> 3:13:35.760 Yeah, Sheriff Chip simmons that calling Ice out for that 3:13:36.000 --> 3:13:36.680 poor form. 3:13:37.000 --> 3:13:41.640 Sheriff Chip finally found something that shows the true depraperty, 3:13:41.800 --> 3:13:43.520 a compromised heart of Ice. 3:13:43.920 --> 3:13:44.720 Yeah yeah, yeah. 3:13:45.920 --> 3:13:46.880 Where will they stop? 3:13:47.440 --> 3:13:49.480 Well, let's talk about where they will stop or at 3:13:49.520 --> 3:13:54.000 least start spending. Ice has been spending some money this week. 3:13:54.680 --> 3:13:56.800 Some of this, I think, like some of the sort 3:13:56.840 --> 3:14:00.520 of reporting on IFC isn't hugely responsible. So like I 3:14:00.520 --> 3:14:03.000 as to sign a sole source contract with B two 3:14:03.080 --> 3:14:07.360 Technologies for example, for quote licenses for the inmate identification 3:14:07.480 --> 3:14:12.080 A recognition system and the mobile offender Recognition Information System. 3:14:12.680 --> 3:14:15.680 They call these IRIS and MORRIS based on their initials. Right, 3:14:16.040 --> 3:14:18.520 these are for ers, so that's their enforcement and removal 3:14:18.560 --> 3:14:21.640 operations brands BO two pitches. IRIS is being able to 3:14:21.680 --> 3:14:24.960 identify people with no physical contact based on the tears 3:14:25.040 --> 3:14:29.240 in their IRIS. This technology has been used by police 3:14:29.400 --> 3:14:32.120 for a while, so you'll notice it was called the 3:14:32.280 --> 3:14:35.160 inmate identification so that the way they would obtain these 3:14:35.200 --> 3:14:40.039 Irish scans would be scanning people who were detained. CBP 3:14:40.440 --> 3:14:44.600 will also have IRIS scans so well. Uscis right. This 3:14:44.760 --> 3:14:47.360 is one of the pieces of biometric data that's sometimes 3:14:47.440 --> 3:14:50.200 collected from migrants as part of their process and moving 3:14:50.240 --> 3:14:53.200 into the United States and then getting their documents, etc. 3:14:54.000 --> 3:14:57.560 What MORRIS will do is allow them to search a 3:14:57.640 --> 3:15:01.680 registry of previous offenders. In twenty twenty four, Niagara County 3:15:01.720 --> 3:15:04.879 Sheriff's Office were the first sheriff's office to add IRIS 3:15:04.920 --> 3:15:08.120 to their vehicles. But a feeling reported as this is 3:15:08.680 --> 3:15:10.800 as a CBP officer or ice officers are going to 3:15:10.800 --> 3:15:14.000 be scanning people's arises with their phones. I don't see 3:15:14.040 --> 3:15:18.480 any evidence of that technology existing either in the contract 3:15:18.560 --> 3:15:21.080 that the government has or on the website for the 3:15:21.160 --> 3:15:24.320 company that makes it. And guessing what this will do 3:15:24.760 --> 3:15:27.280 is if they have somebody who for instance, has previously 3:15:27.360 --> 3:15:31.119 been detained, somebody who has done time and come out, 3:15:31.680 --> 3:15:33.640 then they will users to like as a web of 3:15:33.680 --> 3:15:36.560 identifying them right when after they've detained them, before they 3:15:36.640 --> 3:15:39.440 take them to wherever. The big issue here, right, is 3:15:39.480 --> 3:15:42.800 that B two owns this database of scants. So this 3:15:42.959 --> 3:15:46.680 database includes Morris right, which is previous people who have 3:15:46.760 --> 3:15:50.480 previous offenders. They have a sex offender registry within it. 3:15:50.959 --> 3:15:54.080 They also have databases of seniors who are at risk 3:15:54.200 --> 3:15:56.240 for going missing, so that I think there's people with 3:15:56.320 --> 3:15:59.400 dementia that people can voluntarily sign up to. And they 3:15:59.440 --> 3:16:02.480 have a data of missing children as well. They are 3:16:02.560 --> 3:16:05.480 two interesting company. They also they offer a bunch of 3:16:05.760 --> 3:16:08.800 services for detention companies. They previously partnered with the support 3:16:08.840 --> 3:16:12.680 our Sheriff's Foundation to provide lower cost prescriptions to sheriffs 3:16:12.720 --> 3:16:16.480 and deputies. They're pretty embedded in this law enforcement world. 3:16:16.920 --> 3:16:20.000 Other contracts they saw for ice new tech solutions for 3:16:20.160 --> 3:16:25.000 fingerprint scanners. Again, fingerprint information is routinely taken from migrants 3:16:25.120 --> 3:16:28.279 and many one people getting green cards, people getting visas, 3:16:28.320 --> 3:16:31.560 people getting citizenship. Yes, yeah, anyone who has in any 3:16:31.680 --> 3:16:35.879 capacity and really engaged with uscis like all those categories 3:16:35.920 --> 3:16:38.520 you mentioned, Garrison will have already done this. They did 3:16:38.560 --> 3:16:42.640 also purchase gray Key, which is more concerning, which is 3:16:42.840 --> 3:16:46.160 for breaking into cell phones locked cell phones. Yes, it's 3:16:46.240 --> 3:16:48.039 trying to get around the lock on your cell phone. 3:16:48.520 --> 3:16:51.880 I've written about grey Key before for Input magazine. Generally, 3:16:51.959 --> 3:16:54.600 the way they do this is that they try and 3:16:54.680 --> 3:16:56.080 make a copy of the cell phone and work on 3:16:56.160 --> 3:16:57.480 a copy so they don't get locked out of your 3:16:57.520 --> 3:17:00.760 cell phone. But grey Key is an extremely various piece 3:17:00.800 --> 3:17:03.879 of technology for breaking into people's phones which you otherwise 3:17:03.879 --> 3:17:06.760 wouldn't be able to access. So yeah, that is that 3:17:06.920 --> 3:17:10.240 is what I have for ices spending spree this week. 3:17:10.920 --> 3:17:14.400 For our last story I related to also talk about technology, 3:17:14.480 --> 3:17:19.880 but technology in the news some some AI incidents that 3:17:20.000 --> 3:17:25.560 have broken into people's news news gathering process. Former CNN 3:17:25.640 --> 3:17:29.840 anchor Chris Clomo has shared a fake AI video of 3:17:30.080 --> 3:17:33.920 AOC giving a speech in Congress calling out the Sydney 3:17:34.040 --> 3:17:37.400 Sweety American Eagle ad as racist. 3:17:37.720 --> 3:17:39.720 Damn it, I got to see this. Why does it 3:17:39.840 --> 3:17:41.600 have to all be so stupid? 3:17:42.000 --> 3:17:43.920 I was tweeting today and saw a clip of AOC 3:17:44.160 --> 3:17:49.200 saying that Sydney sweeneyad was racist, and so I replied 3:17:49.240 --> 3:17:50.760 to it, and I said, why do you care about 3:17:50.800 --> 3:17:52.640 this and ignore what matters most? 3:17:53.440 --> 3:17:55.560 Why in all the times that you've. 3:17:55.440 --> 3:17:57.959 Called on Israel to stop, why have you never told 3:17:58.000 --> 3:18:02.920 Hamas to stop, told Moss to surrender? Why would you 3:18:03.040 --> 3:18:05.600 ignore the Saint Louis attack on that Jewish guy who 3:18:05.640 --> 3:18:10.039 had his car bomb. AOC tweeted back and said, dude, 3:18:10.680 --> 3:18:12.920 that's a deep fake that Sidney tweety. 3:18:13.280 --> 3:18:17.760 You suck in so many words, and she was right, 3:18:18.280 --> 3:18:18.760 they got me. 3:18:20.520 --> 3:18:25.320 She was right, I suck. He has been owned. That's 3:18:25.400 --> 3:18:27.240 not bad, that's pretty good. That's funny. 3:18:27.800 --> 3:18:29.680 I chose to I chose to cut off the click there. 3:18:31.040 --> 3:18:33.560 Yeah, yeah, that's the right place for it to go. 3:18:35.000 --> 3:18:38.640 On this AI video of AOC. It is clearly like 3:18:39.120 --> 3:18:41.400 like in Boston into the video himself. This is an 3:18:41.440 --> 3:18:47.040 AI video from from chat GPT memes plus AI art 3:18:47.240 --> 3:18:47.959 on Instagram. 3:18:50.560 --> 3:18:54.800 Fucking this, this guy is being elevated as a fucking journalist. 3:18:55.520 --> 3:18:56.880 Jesus wept. 3:18:57.080 --> 3:19:00.240 He later said on on Newstation on his show They 3:19:00.360 --> 3:19:02.959 Got Me AI. It was really good and it did 3:19:03.080 --> 3:19:06.240 seem like something she would say, I'm gonna now play 3:19:06.480 --> 3:19:09.640 yeah video in question to see if you think this 3:19:09.800 --> 3:19:11.600 is something that AOC would say. 3:19:11.840 --> 3:19:15.240 Sidney Sweeney looks like an Aryan goddess and the American 3:19:15.320 --> 3:19:21.160 Eagle Jean's campaign is nazipaganda. I mean fuck watching that 3:19:21.360 --> 3:19:26.040 sultry little temptress squeeze into a Canadian Technice three silent 3:19:27.400 --> 3:19:29.439 with her bouncy little fun bags. 3:19:30.240 --> 3:19:36.200 Staring at you. Oh my god, I don't know no more, 3:19:36.320 --> 3:19:54.720 no more. In the episode they. 3:19:47.000 --> 3:19:52.720 Got me, Oh man, what a one of our greatest journalists. 3:19:53.360 --> 3:19:57.680 You know, AI really has to be. You know, we've 3:19:57.800 --> 3:20:00.800 hit a g I if it can, it can crack 3:20:00.879 --> 3:20:03.199 a mind as keen as chrism. 3:20:03.560 --> 3:20:06.080 It was really good and it did seem like something 3:20:06.200 --> 3:20:06.920 she would say. 3:20:07.800 --> 3:20:17.680 Good, even how her voice sounds unbelievable, unbelievable, some one 3:20:17.680 --> 3:20:19.760 of the most union things I've I've ever seen. 3:20:21.120 --> 3:20:23.440 To watch that and then wonder why she hasn't commented 3:20:23.520 --> 3:20:26.760 on hermus in the same breath truating indication of where 3:20:26.760 --> 3:20:27.520 our country's hat. 3:20:28.400 --> 3:20:31.560 That AI video is eighty seconds long. It gets so 3:20:31.720 --> 3:20:34.080 much crazier, but we don't need to say anymore. The 3:20:34.240 --> 3:20:37.640 other incident of AI in the News. Former CNN chief 3:20:37.640 --> 3:20:42.360 White It's correspondent Jim Acosta interviewed an AI avatar impersonating 3:20:42.720 --> 3:20:44.360 a school shooting victim. 3:20:44.480 --> 3:20:47.760 Oh noess one of those things that like every town 3:20:47.879 --> 3:20:48.720 or someone was doing. 3:20:49.440 --> 3:20:53.080 Yeah, yeah, yes, I caught this when it happened. Here's 3:20:53.120 --> 3:20:53.480 a video. 3:20:54.080 --> 3:20:57.520 I would like to know what your solution would be 3:20:58.120 --> 3:20:58.959 for gun violence. 3:21:00.120 --> 3:21:00.680 Great question. 3:21:01.040 --> 3:21:03.480 I believe in a mix of stronger gun control laws, 3:21:03.600 --> 3:21:04.879 mental health support. 3:21:04.600 --> 3:21:05.720 And community engagement. 3:21:05.840 --> 3:21:09.439 We need to create safe spaces for conversations and connections, 3:21:09.560 --> 3:21:11.520 making sure everyone feels seen and heard. 3:21:11.879 --> 3:21:12.879 It's about building a. 3:21:12.959 --> 3:21:14.600 Culture of kindness and understanding. 3:21:14.680 --> 3:21:15.480 What do you think about that. 3:21:16.120 --> 3:21:17.680 I think that's a great idea, Joaquin. 3:21:17.800 --> 3:21:20.320 That's not even an answer. That's not an answer. 3:21:22.040 --> 3:21:23.960 This is one of the good things I've ever seen, 3:21:24.080 --> 3:21:26.080 create a culture of kindness and understanding. 3:21:26.160 --> 3:21:27.480 Yeah, that'll fix it. Thanks. 3:21:27.600 --> 3:21:28.560 Incredible humanity. 3:21:29.080 --> 3:21:31.440 Not a person that's someone's child. 3:21:31.760 --> 3:21:34.240 That's not someone's child, all right, Jim Acosta, routt is 3:21:34.240 --> 3:21:37.480 just a generic Well, no, it's it's it's not a person. 3:21:37.920 --> 3:21:39.240 This isn't a humanous Yeah. 3:21:39.320 --> 3:21:43.680 Yeah, but they've attempted to reanimate through cringeji someone's kid 3:21:43.760 --> 3:21:45.720 and they look like a character and it's a small world. 3:21:45.920 --> 3:21:49.320 Yes, the parents are involved in this process. Jim Acosta 3:21:49.320 --> 3:21:52.160 wrote on Blue Sky at four pm, I'll have a 3:21:52.360 --> 3:21:55.640 one of a kind interview with Hakeem Oliver. He died 3:21:55.680 --> 3:21:57.800 in the Parkland school shooting, but his parents have created 3:21:57.800 --> 3:22:00.400 an AI version of their son for a powerful message 3:22:00.440 --> 3:22:03.800 on gun violence. Unquote, you did not interview Lachem Oliver. 3:22:04.120 --> 3:22:07.080 That's that's not that's not him. You did not interview 3:22:07.160 --> 3:22:07.640 that person. 3:22:07.760 --> 3:22:08.320 No, you did not. 3:22:08.520 --> 3:22:09.800 You didn't interview anybody. 3:22:09.840 --> 3:22:12.760 You have helped to spread a fake puppet of someone 3:22:12.840 --> 3:22:16.440 without their knowledge and consent, just as just as gross 3:22:16.520 --> 3:22:19.160 is doing it for like movie actors right who have 3:22:19.200 --> 3:22:22.039 who have died. This is and you know, more more 3:22:22.120 --> 3:22:25.320 gross actually actually like significantly more gross. 3:22:25.720 --> 3:22:29.720 Yeah, it didn't even suggest like it it wasn't even 3:22:30.320 --> 3:22:34.280 like willing to be like ban AR fifteen's or whatever. Yeah, 3:22:34.360 --> 3:22:38.040 like there was no nothing suggested here, Like I can't 3:22:38.040 --> 3:22:41.400 believe how milk toast for a dead person who was 3:22:41.520 --> 3:22:43.840 killed by an AR fifteen. It wasn't even willingness. It 3:22:43.920 --> 3:22:46.600 was just like vaguely new gun control and also a 3:22:46.680 --> 3:22:51.160 culture of kindness. But like can't even be specific. 3:22:50.840 --> 3:22:53.720 This ghoul that you've made, You're putting fake words in 3:22:53.840 --> 3:22:57.320 someone else's like death mask mouth. It's yes, it's so, 3:22:57.680 --> 3:23:00.440 it's so unethical, Like I don't even know what to say. 3:23:00.520 --> 3:23:03.760 It doesn't work at CNN anymore. But my god, Like 3:23:04.240 --> 3:23:07.960 this is not journalism in any way, shape or form. 3:23:08.320 --> 3:23:10.560 No, I don't want to like punch down on the 3:23:10.920 --> 3:23:13.960 and I don't understand, Like I know parents who have 3:23:14.040 --> 3:23:16.720 lost children right through my work. I've talked to lots 3:23:16.720 --> 3:23:18.600 of them what I'd like to and I understand the 3:23:18.680 --> 3:23:21.120 desire to get your kid back in some form and 3:23:21.200 --> 3:23:23.520 if sure, whoever the fuck came to them and said, 3:23:23.560 --> 3:23:25.520 we're going to make an AI of your child so 3:23:25.640 --> 3:23:27.800 it can argue with journalists about gun control? 3:23:28.200 --> 3:23:29.840 Is a fucking ghoul perival. 3:23:30.120 --> 3:23:32.040 No, the the fault here is on the people promoting 3:23:32.080 --> 3:23:35.160 technology and in effect that's what Jim Accosta is doing 3:23:35.200 --> 3:23:35.720 here as well. 3:23:35.840 --> 3:23:39.760 Yeah, totally no, because the journalist is totally irresponsible. 3:23:39.160 --> 3:23:40.280 And profiting off of it. 3:23:40.480 --> 3:23:41.160 It's so gross. 3:23:41.720 --> 3:23:46.080 So anyway, that was our AI news to close the episode. Sorry, 3:23:46.160 --> 3:23:48.280 we couldn't end on the aoc ad. Instead had to 3:23:48.440 --> 3:23:51.560 end on a bit of a more more sour. 3:23:51.480 --> 3:23:54.280 Note, Yeah, I generally want to know where that aoc 3:23:54.400 --> 3:23:55.560 ad goes. I'm gonna watch it. 3:23:55.959 --> 3:23:58.840 Oh, I'll send it to you, James. Yeah, okay, we 3:23:59.000 --> 3:23:59.879 reported the news. 3:24:00.360 --> 3:24:04.560 Yeah, I guess we reported the news. 3:24:09.240 --> 3:24:09.400 Hey. 3:24:09.520 --> 3:24:12.600 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:24:12.680 --> 3:24:14.320 now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:24:15.120 --> 3:24:17.600 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:24:17.800 --> 3:24:20.800 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:24:20.959 --> 3:24:24.440 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:24:24.560 --> 3:24:27.400 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:24:27.879 --> 3:24:29.800 You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here, 3:24:29.840 --> 3:24:31.640 listed directly in episode descriptions. 3:24:32.000 --> 3:24:32.800 Thanks for listening.