1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome 5 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, my name 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: is They call me Ben. We are joined as always 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul, Mission controlled dec and most importantly, 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here and that makes this 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. A very interesting 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: episode for us today, guys, because we watched a documentary 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: together that blew our collective minds. What a story and 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: how often do we get a night at the movies 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: as a collective. You know, we shared a big bucket 14 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: of popcorn. We had the giants soda. We were drinking 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: from three straws stuck in there. It was a whole 16 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: bonding experience. We need we need those air bra T shirts. 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: You guys think I'm joking with dolphins and sunsets, I 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: mean preferably so. So this this film we watched, it's 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: called the Legend of Cocaine Island, and it has it 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: has so many things going on that we thought would 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: be of interest to you. We also decided, because we 22 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: do get good ideas occasionally, not to dive into this 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: on our collective lonesome We are lucky enough to have 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: with us on the show today the director of Legend 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: of Cocaine Island. He's also the editor, also the editor, 26 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: the director documentary and editor and producer. THEO love THEO. 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show. Dude, 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. It's it's crazy, 29 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, Noelan Ben and I have done our fair 30 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: share of video editing in the past, and at the 31 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: very end you see that it was you actually editing. Uh. 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: That that brought a lot of joy to our hearts. 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: Knowing some of the things that you get to watch 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: happen in the show, in the documentary, uh, and also 35 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: knowing that you directed the entire thing. It's it's pretty awesome. Well, 36 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: it's so funny too. When you think of a documentary director, 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: it's sort of an amorphous idea. But this movie, I mean, 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: it's it feels like a movie. It is a documentary, 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: but it's this amazing kind of hodgepodge mishmash of like, 40 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, interviews talking to interviews, but these incredible recreations 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: that have this energy and like tension that I have 42 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: never really seen in the documentary before. So kudos to 43 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: you just on the production level right up front. Yes, 44 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: oh thanks guys. Uh yeah, I mean that that was 45 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: our goal was to make it feel like a movie experience, 46 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: um and and kind of take it away from a 47 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: more traditional documentary field. So I'm glad it's working. Heck yeah. 48 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: And look, before we jump into this too hard everyone, uh. 49 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: The following is a message from the incoming Spoiler Alert Association. 50 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: In this episode, you will hear spoilers. If you have 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: not seen The Legend of Cocaine Island yet, do yourself 52 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: a favor, pull up Netflix and get out right now. 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: And then this conversation will be super interesting on multiple levels. 54 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: And we're going to dive into some of the questions 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: that were raised by the movie, the story, some plot points, 56 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: and so having seen the movie before you hear us do, 57 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: this conversation is going to be key. So stop what 58 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: you're doing right now. Watch the movie. So let's begin 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: with a quote from a character in the documentary, Mr 60 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: Andy Colepepper, a character and a real life human being. 61 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: It's hard to believe, but it's true. Um, we think 62 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: he really encapsulates this. He encapsulates this entire thing. So 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: here's that quote. Now, he says, if you knew where 64 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: two million dollars was buried in the ground, would you 65 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: go get it? Who wouldn't the American dream bro. And 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: it makes me think of that line from The Wire 67 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: where it's like, you gotta play. It's America, baby, you 68 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: gotta play. You know. It's totally the same idea. And 69 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: this character again actually human being I could only describe 70 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: as like the most hysterically drug adduled, kind hearted weirdo 71 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: that I've ever seen in my life. So he has 72 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: really positive energy. He's the word and I found the 73 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: word for this guy. It is Lucy. Yes, yes, disreputable 74 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: or sorted in a rakish or appealing way. Oh that's 75 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: that's what popped into my head. This okay, so broad overview. 76 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: The legend of Cocaine Island centers on something that's like 77 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: a modern urban myth, quite literally a campfire story. And 78 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: one of our first questions for you THEO is how 79 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: did you and how did you and your group discover 80 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: this story in the first place. Well, we were looking 81 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: for crime story that was a little bit more lighthearted. 82 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: I love the prime genre and documentaries. I mean, it's 83 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: super popular now, but most of them are grewsome murders, 84 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: really heavy subject matter. So I was wanting something that 85 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: just felt a little bit sunnier and uh So, although 86 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: all roads led to Florida and uh and I started 87 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: reading just the entire internet uh library on Florida man primes, 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: and I finally found Rodney and this cocaine treasure hunt 89 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,239 Speaker 1: sing and it seems way too good to be true. 90 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: There was already a couple of articles about it, um, 91 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, some local news and but then I read 92 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: an article in g Q about it. But it wasn't 93 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: until I called. I started calling the subject. I was like, man, 94 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: not only is this true, but it's even crazier than 95 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: I could have ever imagined. And these characters are just 96 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: absolutely bonkers and deserve a movie. And so we went 97 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: on May one like the way that ends. So for 98 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: everyone listening, as we know, we've all seen the film now, 99 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: but for everyone listening who wants a brief, like high 100 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: level recap of the actual legend, could could you tell 101 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: us the story theo that that are protagonist originally here's Yeah. 102 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: So the story starts out with a man named Julian. 103 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: I gotta describe him a little bit for you. He's 104 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: he's basically a hippie version of Gandalf. Uh. She starts 105 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: his story in an island named Culebra. It's right up 106 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: the coast of Puerto Rico, and Julian is walking on 107 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: the beach one day saving sea turtles and sees a 108 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: duffel bag washed up on shore. He goes and unzips 109 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: his bag and finds two million dollars worth of cocaine. 110 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: He's absolutely terrified, uh with you know, this amount of drugs, 111 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: doesn't know what to do with that, doesn't feel like 112 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: he go to the cops. Um doesn't want to be 113 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: seen with it, and so he just buries it. And 114 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: and he moved back to Florida and for the past 115 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty years has just been telling this drunken fireside 116 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: story about this buried treasure on this tropical island. And 117 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: that that led, you know, that story of his kind 118 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: of grew into you know, more details, and more people 119 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: heard it, and more people kind of thought about, you know, 120 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: was he telling the truth? Was he you know, was 121 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: it really that much cocaine. But when Rodney Haydn heard 122 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: the story, he didn't question it one bit. He he 123 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: did not view it as a legend at all and 124 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: actually thought that he could go dig that treasure up. Okay, So, 125 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: Rodney Haydn, this is the gentleman that we follow for 126 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: most of the film. And this guy, this guy is 127 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: again like every single character we keeps saying, it's is 128 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: larger than life in so many ways. Tell us who 129 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: is this man? Rodney Hyden Rody is as you said, 130 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: it was great. He's larger than life in every way. 131 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: He is a very jolly, happy, go lucky dreamer. He 132 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: did always sees the bright side of everything. Uh. He's 133 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: a family man. He's the owner of a small construction business, 134 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: UM and he lives in central Florida. UM. He had 135 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: a pretty successful construction business up until the recession, and he, 136 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, Florida got hit really hard, UM in the 137 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: construction business, and so he lost pretty much everything, had 138 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: to move out of his big house in the city, 139 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: had to you know, go from forty employees down to two, 140 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: and he was, you know, in crazy amounts of debt 141 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: and his his family was was pretty heartbroken to leave 142 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: that lifestyle behind, so so that that was how where 143 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: Rodney was at in his life when he heard the 144 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: story from Julian. It's interesting too, because he really does 145 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: kind of represent this idea of the American dream, Like 146 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: he is this big dreamer. He wanted all of these things, 147 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: these physical objects in this life of luxury and all that. 148 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: And you know, he talked about in the film how 149 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: it was never enough. They had to have the motorcycle 150 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: and then the pool, and then this and then that, 151 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: and then they lose it all, which is uh. Certainly 152 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: you do a good job of making that his motivation 153 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: in the movie. Why he might really enteraentertain this idea 154 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: of like getting this life changing money, no matter how 155 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: stupid or dangerous it might seem, right, I mean, I 156 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: that's the thing is that that the motivation is is understandable. 157 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: I think that everybody's motivated in similar ways to um. 158 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: But there is this underlying absurdity to his conclusion that 159 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: you know that I'm gonna go try to get you know, 160 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: a douffle bag full of cocaine that's fared in the ground. Yeah. 161 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: But but really you do such a great job of 162 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: having that representation even In the words of Rodney's wife, 163 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: she likens it to the forbidden fruit featured in the 164 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: Bible's Garden of Eden. This like almost unattainable thing, but 165 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: achieving it or getting it could represent everything for you, 166 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: right and you almost don't even know what it could represent, 167 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: but you feel that it could be the answer to 168 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: all your problems totally. And I think that we can 169 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: be attempted by anything, you know, anything, any quick fix 170 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: is gonna feel feel really tempting, and you know, not 171 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: not to jump too far ahead, but you know, there 172 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of morality in this film. 173 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: We're not judging Rodney for for what he does in 174 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: that big of a way, but there is some sort 175 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: of moral uh thought at the end that's delivered by 176 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: by the main drug dealer in the story, who on 177 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: the surface looks like the bad guy, but he actually 178 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: kind of talks about how there's really no shortcuts in 179 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: life and that whether you're drug dealing or you're running 180 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: a small, you know, construction business, you just have to 181 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: work hard. That's it. And and I thought that that 182 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: was really funny coming from him. Agreed, Agreed, This is 183 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: this is something that that brings us to a a 184 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,479 Speaker 1: sort of procedural or behind the camera question. In multiple 185 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: parts of the Legend of Cocaine Islands, people are describing 186 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: both the intent to commit crimes and the attempt to 187 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: commit crimes. How easy or difficult was it to get 188 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: these these folks to sit down and to just be 189 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: honest with to you while the film's rolling. You know, 190 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: it was surprisingly easy to get access. And I when 191 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: I first started this project, I was like, man, these 192 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: are these are active drug dealers, these are active uh people, 193 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: and and there's no way they're gonna actually talk to me. 194 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: There's no way they're gonna want to. And but then 195 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: they started reaching out to me once they heard that 196 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: the project was going and and they were just fans 197 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: of drug documentaries. They mentioned cocaine Cowboys and uh it 198 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: said that they really wanted to be a part of 199 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: the story. Now, once we got to the like the 200 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: logistics of oh, your your face is gonna be on 201 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: camera and that might not be very good for your business, 202 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: then we had to talk about, hey, can we work 203 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: at disguise in there? And you know, so, so we 204 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: we got creative with how to protect their identity. But 205 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this was a silly 206 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: story from beginning to end. Everybody knew that this was 207 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: a ridiculous story, and it didn't feel like anybody took 208 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: it seriously. Um. And that that was true across the 209 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: board with everybody. UM. And so even though it this 210 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: is definitely crime and it's very serious and I don't 211 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: recommend anybody try to traffic seventy pounds of cocaine, um there, 212 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: it does kind of feel light and like there weren't 213 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: really that dramatic of stakes. So, I mean, getting access 214 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: with a lot easier than that I anticipated. But once 215 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: you actually sit down, it was really funny. I told them, 216 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ask you any questions about your your business, 217 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: your criminal business, um, outside of this story. We're just 218 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: gonna stick to this story. But the funny thing about 219 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: getting into a conversation with people is that sometimes they 220 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: don't know when to shut up. And so we got 221 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: so much more detail than we ever imagined just because 222 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: people got into the storytelling of it. It wasn't really 223 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: an interview as much as just kind of prompting them 224 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: to tell the best version of the story. Like they 225 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: were hanging out in the bar and We'll be back 226 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: with more from THEO Love right after this. So tell 227 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: tell us about Andy Kulpepper. What was it like to 228 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: hang out with him in that tattoo parlor? Good lord, 229 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: He's like one of my favorite human beings on this planet. 230 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: He is hilarious, a very unpredictable fellow. The initial contact 231 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: with him was was pretty interesting. Um We met him 232 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: in a parking lot outside of j C. Pennies and 233 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: he was trying to sell his car. I think, Um, 234 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: I wasn't really sure. People kept stopping and getting in 235 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: his car for a couple of minutes, and then they 236 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: would get out and drive away, and then he keep 237 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: talking to us. I had no idea what he was doing. Yeah, definitely, 238 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: definitely right. Um So, there's there's always something a little 239 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: off with every interaction that I've ever had with Andy, 240 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: where you're just kind of feeling like something else is 241 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: going on, or maybe he's not all the way there. 242 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: Um So. I don't know if he was tied during 243 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: the interview or if he was putting on an act 244 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: or what, but he really just turned it on and 245 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: had the entire crew laughing hysterically. He's just the most 246 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: likable drug addict that I know well, to be fair, 247 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: in his words, he doesn't have a drug problem. He's 248 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: he's done drugs, but it's not a problem for him anymore, 249 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: which I just think it means he's like figured out 250 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: how to maintain at a comfortable level, at least for him. 251 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the thing that he didn't seem like 252 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: a dangerous dude. He didn't seem like sketchy and like 253 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: he was gonna rob you or a creepy way. And 254 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: it seemed like he genuinely had a friendship with Rodney, 255 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: who was known for like picking up these strays and 256 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: trying to help them improve their lives, which and kind 257 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: of how he ends up going down this rabbit hole 258 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: because he just it was a world that he really 259 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: had no part of or no business being in, but 260 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: he had this weird in road through guys like Rodney, 261 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: which I thought was really fascinating because I mean, I'm 262 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: sorry guys like Andy, but Rodney is a very likable 263 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: character as much of a kind of goof he is, 264 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: He's like a good natured goof and you root for 265 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: him the whole time, which I thought was really really 266 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: important totally, And and that's That's the what we really 267 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: wanted out of this this movie was to kind of 268 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: have it be a buddy comedy a little bit where 269 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: you've got me this happy, go lucky family businessman in 270 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: his fifties, and then you've got Andy, who's uh you 271 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: know it is one eve and partied way too hard 272 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: and it's just I mean, crazy, colorful character. You combine 273 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: those two and send them on this adventure, it's it's 274 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: bound to be hilarious. I completely agree with that. In fact, 275 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: one thing that I thought of while watching it, it's like, 276 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: this is a much more affable Walter White Jesse Pinkman 277 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: kind of dynamic duo. And uh this you know, without 278 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: all the terrible things that happened and breaking bad, but 279 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: just like that duo, regardless of how effervescent and compelling 280 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: their personalities are. This is, as you said, an examination 281 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: of crime, quite a serious crime or attempt at one. 282 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: And that's where a lot of our stuff they don't 283 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: want you to know occurs. Here. Could you tell us 284 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: a little bit about this area in Puerto Rico where 285 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: you know, where Julian said he buried all this cocaine. Yeah, 286 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: it's on it's a it's technically on um protected land. 287 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: It's a wildlife refuge um, but it's not it's not 288 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: like the place where he buried it was where the 289 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: animals were or protected ecosystem. This was actually just where 290 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: the staff of the refuge would live. And and so 291 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: there was um. There's like a couple of offices there. 292 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: And then he had his trailer and he he dug 293 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: a hole right behind his trailer between the trailer and 294 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: this sisterm um. But in the years since then, this 295 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: was about twenty years ago, since then, his trailer has 296 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: been torn down, and so the exact location it's hard 297 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 1: to determine, but it's it's still right around there, you know, 298 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: in in this um, I think of the parking lot 299 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: right next to it. Now. Wow. So as we were 300 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: doing research for this, we we noticed that Puerto Rico, 301 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: in particular, not necessarily Calebra, but the surrounding area there there, 302 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: it's seen an increase in drug trafficking just at least 303 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: since uh twenty the early twenty tens, I guess um, 304 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: and specifically it's seen an increase in heroin and cocaine 305 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: drug trafficking. And I was wondering, like, as you're shooting this. 306 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: Did that affect your production at all? Like, were you 307 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: guys actually out in Puerto Rico on location shooting any 308 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: of this stuff? And did you have problems with law enforcement? Um? No, 309 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: we we didn't have any problem with law enforcement. Actually 310 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: that Uh. We did film on on location in Culebra, 311 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: and we did all the normal things that we do 312 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: when we film in an area like that. We checked 313 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: in with the with the local governments and checking with 314 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: the local police, let them know that we're, you know, 315 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: making a film there, and they were they were supportive. 316 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: We we told them that we wanted to make the 317 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 1: island that look beautiful and they're very supportive. Um. But uh, 318 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, it wasn't the We never approached 319 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: this like it was a drug movie, if that makes sense, 320 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: you know. And so so we we didn't do a 321 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: whole lot of research about the drug trade because this 322 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: story was about somebody who was not a drug traffic 323 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: They're attempting to traffic drugs for the first time, and 324 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: so the less information we had was probably better for 325 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, to represent our main character. If that makes sense, 326 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: got you, I guess. Just the the big point is 327 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: that it makes a lot of sense that in the film, 328 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: as You learned, Department of Homeland Secure, he was very 329 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: much interested in cocaine coming out of Puerto Rico. Um 330 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: According to uh the Washington Examiner, the U S Customs 331 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: and Border Protection, they seized around sixty six thousand pounds 332 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: of narcotics in and around Puerto Rico uh in, which 333 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: was more than any previous year on record. So you 334 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: can you can imagine why, like, as that's ramping up, 335 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: they were really really interested in this. But one of 336 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: the main things that this documentary goes into is the 337 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: legality of what the main character and some of the 338 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: other characters involved did what they did, and how bad 339 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: it was essentially, So let's let's talk about some of that. 340 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: Do you think Rodney would have actually uh again, you 341 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: need to watch the film. Do you think Rodney actually 342 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: would have just left the whole thing alone if he 343 00:21:52,680 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: wasn't contacted by Carlos. I personally think that he would 344 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: have made the attempt the first time, But he went 345 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: a second time and it was so unsuccessful. I mean, 346 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't even like he got close, and so he 347 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: he made two trips that I think he would have 348 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: made on his own, regardless of who else was involved, 349 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: But there was that that third element, that third trip 350 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: that he didn't go on. But this, you know, Carlos 351 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: guy went on to dig it up for him and 352 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: and I don't think that Rodney would have done. I 353 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: think that's where he would have stopped. I think that 354 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: after Rodney's you know, to failed trips, he would have stopped. 355 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: But that's where Homeland Security really pushed it. That that 356 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: extra mile. Yeah, that's that is a fascinating part of 357 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: the story for us because we've looked back at other 358 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: situations in the US and abroad, these sorts of kind 359 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: of undercover law operations, right, and it seems that despite 360 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: his uh frankly very endearing can do attitude Rodney, Rodney 361 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: runs into things that time and time again, people who 362 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: aren't even career criminals would see his bad moves. I 363 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: refer specifically to that time where Andy is saying, Andy 364 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: is saying, yeah, Carlos said, tell him, just tell him 365 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: where it is, give him the map. And I was like, bro, 366 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: that's a terrible idea. Yeah, you'll just get a cut 367 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: at the end, right, right, Because he seemed like he 368 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: was very trusting with people. But it also seems like, 369 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: first off, it seems difficult to believe with the benefit 370 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: of retrospect that he did not suspect anything was up 371 00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: with this mysterious Carlos character. However, what what do you 372 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: feel about the legality of law enforcements actions, because you 373 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: said he probably would have given up after that second attempt, 374 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: but then he gets some real firepower in the form 375 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: of Carlos and his mysterious enigmatic organization. Was law enforcement 376 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: on the right side of things legally speaking by essentially 377 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, let's say it essentially committing this crime for Rottney, Yeah, right, 378 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: And I think, well, that question is is getting at 379 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: is whate of this was entrapment? Absolutely right? Yeah, and 380 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: and and that's that's where you really have to to 381 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: get down to the legal the legal definitions of entrapment 382 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: and what law enforcement have to do um in order 383 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: to to execute a proper drugs sting without in traveling 384 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: and they go through I mean, our our law enforcement 385 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: is very thorough and they have they have procedures and 386 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: they stuck to them on these and this was a 387 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: very well executed investigation in the sense that they got 388 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: what they were after and they went to trial, they 389 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: got the conviction and uh, and the bad guy got punished. 390 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: So from there, from that standpoint, the law enforcement did 391 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: great now and and and that's from a legal standpoint, 392 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: they won the case. From a common sense standpoint, I 393 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: think that this was a whole they waste of time. 394 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: And oh and nobody looks good in this story because 395 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: Rodney was not an active member of the drug trade 396 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: and would have had no ability to move into that 397 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: um without completely changing his life. What he did do 398 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: was that he showed an interest in committing a crime 399 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,719 Speaker 1: and had deliberate action, multiple deliberate actions um to commit 400 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: that crime. And so that's that's where where technically it's 401 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: all legal to arrest Rodney. Should they have done it? Uh? 402 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: I don't think so. The big question for me is, 403 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: it's not Rodney's cocaine, right, It's it's cocaine that exists 404 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: somewhere on an island in Puerto Rico that is just 405 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: sitting there if it even exists in the first place, 406 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: and he at no point ever had possession of it. 407 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: He's like the producer of this operation. Well, he does 408 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: have possession of it when he takes it out of 409 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: the trunk and puts it in his truck rigidly the cocaine. Yes, 410 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: that was somehow you know, made it out of the ground, 411 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: made it into Carlos's car, and then he picks it up. 412 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: That's the one moment that he ever touches it. But 413 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: that's the moment that they get you on any drug charge, 414 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 1: is they call them hand to hands or whatever when 415 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: they yeah, when you take it from somebody in the 416 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: cups that you do it, then you that is now 417 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: you're cocaine. But did he pay money for it? That 418 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: does that really matter? I'm just saying, like, at no 419 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: point was it his He like took it. It's just 420 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: so confusing to me when you're thinking about it from 421 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: uh in like if you're trying to argue it and 422 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: if a juror is listening to it. I'm just trying 423 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: to understand. Uh, I don't know, like chain of custody. Know, 424 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: it absolutely feels like in trapping in that respect. Were 425 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: they yeah, I mean you know, it's like, here's the 426 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: keys to my trunk. It's in my trunk, you know, 427 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: take it. I Mean, I don't know. That's the part 428 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: that really got me. I Mean, you brought up a 429 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: really good point about that Rodney didn't paid for it, 430 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: and that he wasn't paid for it that and that's 431 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: that's one of the technicalities that I think is really 432 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: really suspicious, because their deal was that Harlow only got 433 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: a portion of the cocaine. It's not like Rodney pads 434 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: to go bring this cotine in. It was it was 435 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: a share of the of the loot, which in my opinion, 436 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't mean that there's a real transaction here. It's 437 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: just that they were partners in this crazy scheme. Yeah, 438 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: that's that's a crucial distinction here. And just just on 439 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: the side, I'm curious. I don't know if you guys are, 440 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: but I'm curious, did you in the creation of the documentary, 441 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: did you ever speak with anybody on the law enforcement side, 442 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: like off camera, that was associated with this operation. Is 443 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: there anything you want to talk to us about about it? 444 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: I mean, let's just put it this way. Every single 445 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: person that I talked to on the law enforcement side 446 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: couldn't up laughing as they were telling the story. Yeah, 447 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: like the the underlying like the underlying implication there is 448 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: that I don't think that they were viewing this as 449 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: a serious case. I don't think that they were taking 450 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: it in any ways seriously and and so yes, they 451 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: technically executed a a good investigation, but like a lot 452 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: of the bigger issues surrounding drugs, I don't think really 453 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: even came into play him that. So that's that's my 454 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: personal opinion about just the impression I got interacting with 455 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: them off camera well, and also given like the sentence, 456 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: the very lenient sentence that Rodney got from a you know, 457 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: admittedly sympathetic judge who was like he kind of saw 458 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: everything we're talking about. He's like, this guy was a patsy, 459 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: he was a fish out of water. He had no 460 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: business being in this world and had no means of 461 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: flipping these drugs. So he gave him like a slap 462 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: on the wrist, and like, you know, the community service 463 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: with habitat for human So it's ultimately like a fairy 464 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: tale with a happy ending, which I love that about it, 465 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: because you're right, so many of these crime things are 466 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: so dark and depressing, and this one is not only 467 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: funny and intriguing, it has like a happy ending, but 468 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: it also ends with this notion that maybe they never 469 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: dug up the drugs in the first place, and That's 470 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: fascinating to me because it's like, to what end, who 471 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: were they going after? It seems like an awful lot 472 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: of effort just to embarrass a you know, washed up 473 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: construction guy. It does, it really does. It's as I said, 474 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: it feels like a big waste of time. I think 475 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: that that the stories um like that are really entertaining. 476 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: But you know, in the real world, yeah, it doesn't 477 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 1: seem worse homeland security time to two chase after this 478 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: whole thing, but it is. It's maddening to think that 479 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: all of this happened and maybe maybe nobody even touched 480 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: that cocaine at all, everything that happened, this whole adventure 481 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: and all of these consequences, and nobody actually even dug 482 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: it up. That to me, that's just hilarious. We'll continue 483 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: our exploration of Cocaine Island after a brief word from 484 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: our sponsors. Can I tell you my theory theo, and 485 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: then you just tell me what you think about it. 486 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: So I think the police officers, uh and what I 487 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: don't know what county was in where D got picked up, 488 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: but I think the police officers that picked D up 489 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,959 Speaker 1: that one night with oxy cotton, they heard the story 490 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: about the same story that the Julie has been telling, 491 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: the same story that Rodney bought into. They heard two 492 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: million dollars cocaine Puerto Rico, and they then got so 493 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: interested and excited by the fact that maybe our you know, 494 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: maybe our small department could put two million dollars in 495 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: cocaine on the table, have a press conference that they 496 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: end up getting involved with, maybe homeland security, and then 497 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: they get, oh, man, we could put two million dollars 498 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: in cocaine. That would look really great if we could 499 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: just you know, get that on camera and put it 500 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: on the news. And then it became snowballing to the 501 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: point where they realized all they had was Rodney and 502 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: that was it, and uh, there's nothing they could do. 503 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: So they had to they had to do something essentially 504 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: to justify the amount of dollars they put into the 505 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: man hours of all the people looking into this. That's 506 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: my theory. What do you think I think that is? 507 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: That's completely plausible. That actually, yeah, that makes a lot 508 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: of thanks as did like, how it could how it 509 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: get actually spiral into this you know the Um, Yeah, 510 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: I think that that's that's pretty spot on. Um, it 511 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: really did. It really did start with the local police 512 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: and and that's how you know, that's how it started. 513 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: So um, yeah, nobody could have anticipated that it would 514 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: have led to two you know, the two trips to 515 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico and then you know, the big arrest with Rodney. 516 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: I don't think that that was like a game plan 517 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: from the beginning, but yeah, you would, you would hope 518 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: that they had bigger ambitions, like bigger fish to fry, 519 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, for this investigation when they started. Hope, Yeah, 520 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: you'd think that at least if they did, if Homeland 521 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: Security actually did pick up that two million dollars of cocaine, 522 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: hopefully you will you hope that there was some kind 523 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: of forensics on the bag or in the bag, or 524 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: on the cocaine or the containers that you could actually 525 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: follow that chain right of custody of it back to 526 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: some bigger fish like they were talking about, but in 527 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: this case, like it just yeah, it doesn't make much 528 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: stinking sense. Uh. And and in the trial they actually 529 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: talked about the cocaine that they found and they just 530 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: said that it was it was completely unusable. It was 531 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: just it had been rotted away and couldn't be sold 532 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 1: or used in any way. So you know that that's 533 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: another that's another thing, like they weren't able to get 534 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: anything from from that evidence, even if it's true that 535 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: they dug it up. So I have one follow up 536 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: question that I've been thinking about this whole time. Why 537 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: in the hell did Julian not just leave it in 538 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: the damn ocean. I think he wanted to see what 539 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: it smelled like. Okay, that's fair, that's fair. So he 540 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: just took a little taste and then it was like, 541 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: I can't have all this that makes sense, all right? 542 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I'm not getting into that part 543 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: of it. That's fair, that's totally fair. Was that actually 544 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: Julian at the end I saw that he had somebody 545 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: he was playing him, but that was him. Yeah, at 546 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: the very end, that was him. And and at the 547 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: very beginning, you know him walking in the um in 548 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: the forest. Yeah, yeah, he's and he is just the sweetest, 549 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: sweetest old hippie and just wants to be left alone 550 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: and wants to live a simple life. And I got 551 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: to be really close with him, uh while we're making this, 552 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: and he just he really just didn't want He's just 553 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 1: embarrassed that this whole thing happened, and so so he 554 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: he was okay with us making the movie, and I 555 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: pleaded with him that everybody just wants to see his face, 556 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: and so he agreed to do an interview with one 557 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: question where I asked him to tell his story and 558 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: then politely to tell me know and and then and 559 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: then I squeaked in the follow up question there um 560 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: as well. So uh so, yeah, it was it was nice. 561 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: I felt like that was the appropriate amount of amount 562 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: of Julian to keep the legend of life. Oh. Absolutely. 563 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: And it was also a nice big reveal where it's like, 564 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: I thought, you picture him as this mythical creature kind 565 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: of almost and I love the fact that he's like, 566 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: it's not my story to tell anymore. Yeah, and then 567 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: he just leaves it at that, and that's uh, I 568 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: think that's really smart. Um. Yeah, he had some great 569 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: philosophical notes. I remember remember when he talked about finding 570 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: the cocaine somewhere and saying, oh, I'm a millionaire, just 571 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: not with money, and uh, and I can completely I 572 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: can completely see the uh this slightly anti authoritarian idea 573 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 1: of that one question interview, which, by the way, THEO 574 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: thanks for not doing that to us today. Yes, seriously, 575 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: this has been great. Yeah. So one one thing we 576 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: always like to we always like to end with when 577 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: we're exploring these kind of current projects, is something related 578 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: to the future. Can you share with us any any 579 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: next projects you have on the horizon or things that 580 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: are fellow listeners should keep an eye out for. Well, 581 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: I can't announce anything officially yet. There's a there's but 582 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: there's quite a few things in the works. Um, I 583 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: can't tell you creatively the direction that I'm moving in. Um. 584 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: The the whole idea of blending documentaries and narratives is 585 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: something that I think is just we're just at the 586 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: beginning of exploring right now, and where we're in documentaries, 587 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: we don't just have we don't think of cheesy recreations. 588 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: We think of them as as more cinematic experiences. And 589 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: so the next couple of projects that I'm working on, 590 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: I'm working on a horror documentary that incorporates a lot 591 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: of horror visuals, and then UM, I'm also working on 592 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: an action documentary that has more explosions than you can imagine. 593 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: It's Uh, I'm hoping to make it like Michael Bay 594 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: makes the documentary. Oh my gosh, So that's the direction 595 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: I'm heading in. I thought the Transformers movies were documentaries, 596 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: Now they were actually Yeah, speaking speaking of documentaries, tell 597 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: tell us just a little bit about Little Hope was Arson. 598 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: I just want to know more about that before we 599 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: move on. So Little Hope was Arson was my very 600 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: first film. I was actually writing a screenplay about this 601 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: true story about ten churches that burned down in East 602 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: Texas and it was a massive criminal investigation and it 603 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 1: wasn't racially motivated, it wasn't terrorism. The people in East 604 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: Texas thought that it was Satan himself burning these churches down, 605 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: but in reality, it was just two local boys who 606 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: had gone to Sunday school every week of their life. 607 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: And so I was writing the screenplay about this, and 608 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: I went out to Texas and started, you know, doing 609 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: research and interviews with the actual people, and I found 610 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: that they were giving me their stories in ways that 611 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,439 Speaker 1: I could never write, and their emotion was was so 612 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: real that it just kind of inspired me to make 613 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: a documentary. And I had literally never considered making a 614 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: documentary before that point, and so I made it was 615 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: a tiny little movie, but it was lucky enough to 616 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: played a couple of festivals and get picked up for 617 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: a distribution by the Orchard and it played on PBS 618 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 1: and it was a really great starting point for my 619 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: documentary career. You could almost say it started a fire 620 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: within you. Sorry, sorry, well the uh I thought, I 621 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: thought that was all right. That The good news is, folks, 622 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: that you can uh you can watch The Alleged of 623 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: Cocaine Island now again, the second look for all the 624 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: Easter eggs that we uncovered in this fantastic interview. Yes, absolutely, 625 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 1: you can find it available now live and direct on Netflix. 626 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 1: Do check it out. Who doesn't love a Bury treasure story? 627 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: And as you said, you know, I think that's the 628 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: nail on the head for you. I was looking for 629 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: the right way to describe it. It's one hell of 630 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 1: a buddy comedy, it really is. And the entire thing 631 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: is worth it for this, for this one shot with 632 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: Rodney when he's looking up and he's in a studio 633 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: somewhere and there's cocaine falling onto him, There's there's money 634 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: flourishing around him. It's beautiful. There's also a lot of 635 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: really intense mustache shots in this movie. I have to 636 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: have to have to. I have to really compliment you 637 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: on your mustache shots because it's just like this guy, 638 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: he's he is like a human mustache, is what Rodney is. 639 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: I love him, you know, I really aspreciate that nobody's 640 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: commented on my mustache shots. And that meant a lot 641 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: to me. I from the from the very first time 642 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: I saw rod me I was like the first thing 643 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: that you will ever see if this man is his mustache, 644 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: I never heard from that day one. You gotta follow 645 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: your creative choices to the to the bitter. And I 646 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 1: love it. No, I enjoyed it very much. And it's 647 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: super fun talking about this stuff. And UM, thank you 648 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: so much for making the time. Thank you guys so much. 649 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: This was a really really fun Hey, thank you. And uh, alright, 650 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,919 Speaker 1: anything else anyone needs to know about where to find 651 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: you or anything for you? Uh No, But there's some 652 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: there's some really interesting uh movement on on Reddit with 653 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 1: people finding some some making making their own own trip, 654 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, to the place, and even on on Google 655 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: Maps if you look on it. Uh, there's a review 656 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,879 Speaker 1: for the Wildlife Area with um it's funny. Just check 657 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 1: it out. The review is talking about people actually showing 658 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: out the dig It's so so for anyone that doesn't remember, 659 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: I didn't notice. It flashes at the end of the 660 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: film some coordinates after the two Homeland security guys like, yeah, definitely, 661 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: don't do that. Definitely. The review says, too many tourists 662 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: for my taste, mostly young men in need for shovels. 663 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: I saw the business opportunity visit Cocaine Shovel Puerto Rico 664 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: dot com today. It's fantastic. That's fantastic. So thank you 665 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: again so much THEO. We hope that you have enjoyed 666 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: learning about Cocaine Island. This concludes our episode, but not 667 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: our show. We will be back with more strange, unusual 668 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. In the meantime, 669 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, all the hits, 670 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: all that slow jazz. Yeah, if you want to check 671 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,879 Speaker 1: us out on our Facebook group it's called Here's Where 672 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: It Gets Crazy. Or you can talk about this and 673 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: all the other episodes we put out and just hang 674 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: out with your fellow listeners. If you don't want to 675 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: do any of that, you can send us a good 676 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: old fashioned email where we are conspiracy at how stuff works. 677 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: Dot Com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is 678 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For 679 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,439 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 680 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 681 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: favorite shows.