Speaker 1: Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: Good People, How you doing? What's up?
Speaker 3: On this week's Quest Love Show, I talked to the
Speaker 3: one and only Open Mike Eagle. I did a whole
Speaker 3: season one of the best interviews I think I've ever
Speaker 3: given in life. Look up what it happened was if
Speaker 3: I Open Mike Eagle. It's one of my favorite podcasts.
Speaker 3: I'm so jealous that I don't do that podcast, that's
Speaker 3: how much I love it. It's basically an artist gets
Speaker 3: an entire cannon for a season. There's the Prince Paul season,
Speaker 3: not even episode seasons. Dante Ross season LP is also
Speaker 3: part of it, and of course mine is there. I
Speaker 3: covered the first four albums of the Roots career. Very insightful,
Speaker 3: but you know, for this particular episode, I will say
Speaker 3: that it's more like a conversation between friends. Mike was
Speaker 3: my facto therapist for this episode. He's a calm, present,
Speaker 3: very thoughtful guy. And this also marks the first time
Speaker 3: where I kind of publicly spoke about the struggle in
Speaker 3: processing and dealing with our dearly departed Michael D'Angelo Archer. Anyway,
Speaker 3: I was supposed to be interviewing Mike, but instead, I
Speaker 3: used Mike as a soundboard to talk about my problems.
Speaker 3: But that's the kind of guy he is. So I
Speaker 3: hope you enjoy this. Open Mike Eagle on the Quest
Speaker 3: Love Show. I could start off just on your boombox
Speaker 3: collection in the back.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I mean this is this is a
Speaker 2: small portion of the overall boomboxes scattered throughout. Well, what
Speaker 2: you're looking at these couple right here. I probably got
Speaker 2: like eight or nine of them in the house or
Speaker 2: something like that total.
Speaker 1: So are you just sentimental like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Man, it was funny during COVID that ended up
Speaker 2: being part of my therapy journey, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: going back and trying to get stuff that I could
Speaker 2: touch right from childhood to ground me. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. It was all of that. So yeah, So
Speaker 2: even the stereo piece that I have that I got
Speaker 2: converted into a helmet. I bought all of these pieces
Speaker 2: off of eBay like the same year. I spent way
Speaker 2: too much money on it now that I think about it,
Speaker 2: But you know it was good for me.
Speaker 1: As I suspected.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, besides, you're am seeing but really in
Speaker 3: your conversations on what had happened was I was like,
Speaker 3: I think Mike and I are the same person.
Speaker 2: Definitely part of the same tribe. Yeah, I'm saying, definitely
Speaker 2: part of the same tribe, fruit from the same tree.
Speaker 1: If anything. I feel like this is my chance to
Speaker 1: get to know you as a human.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: So see I'm already messing up because I should have
Speaker 3: did an intro first. But see that we just went
Speaker 3: right into the conversation time an illusion anyway, we are
Speaker 3: the same person. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Don't matter,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 1: So, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: In past episodes, I've mentioned how transformative the pandemic of
Speaker 3: twenty twenty changed me for the better in terms of
Speaker 3: my life, my mental health, my physical health, and my
Speaker 3: creative endeavors and also my relationships. And of course I
Speaker 3: spoke of all the books that I read that you know,
Speaker 3: changed me. You know, if you're a long time listener
Speaker 3: of this podcast, you've heard me mention like Nevill Goddard
Speaker 3: and Jodaspenza and Breonna Wist and Richard Rudd and Kay Hendrix,
Speaker 3: David Hawkins, like the list is endless, but.
Speaker 1: It wasn't all you know, wo wu seriousness.
Speaker 3: Podcast diving also became my gountu pastime as I did
Speaker 3: morning walks or just like you know it was isolated
Speaker 3: on a farm in upstate New York. One particular podcast
Speaker 3: that was, I would say, a godsend. And I know,
Speaker 3: again those who know me well know this this podcast
Speaker 3: format that I'm on, you know my tendency to sort
Speaker 3: of go over the top in terms of enthusiasm hyperbole. However,
Speaker 3: I will say that one particular podcast that really truly
Speaker 3: became my go to safe place in dystopian times was
Speaker 3: What had Happened was And I often find out that
Speaker 3: you know, my people, and yeah, black people are kind
Speaker 3: of slow to dive into history portal, which you know
Speaker 3: is understandable for a lot of us living day to
Speaker 3: day and fight a flight. And you know, for a
Speaker 3: lot of us, looking anything north of yesterday might not
Speaker 3: be rose colored glasses, schip.
Speaker 2: My yesterday wasn't necessarily my favorite.
Speaker 3: So that said, like this whole fight to the finished
Speaker 3: hustle attitude that we have really, I guess stems we're
Speaker 3: looking for better tomorrow then, you know, and if you
Speaker 3: look in that mood, you might not want to look
Speaker 3: back in.
Speaker 1: The rear view mirror.
Speaker 3: So you know, I will say, enter our guest's genius creation,
Speaker 3: which kind of in a backwards way, I got drawn
Speaker 3: into the stratosphere of open mic Eagle, even though I've
Speaker 3: heard of him too, Ganders and whatnot. It wasn't until
Speaker 3: that podcast that I decided that, you know what, I
Speaker 3: want to be a champion of this guy and just
Speaker 3: look at his.
Speaker 1: Whole entire history.
Speaker 3: The thing is, I wouldn't exactly call our guest a podcaster,
Speaker 3: even though he's awesome at it, first and foremost much
Speaker 3: appreciating he is. Oh, I mean, dude, this is why
Speaker 3: I think we're the same person, because we're all things,
Speaker 3: are all people.
Speaker 1: You know, he's also an excellent MC.
Speaker 3: He's also comedian, even a singer sometimes who balances music, television,
Speaker 3: podcasting his personal life.
Speaker 2: Balance is a strong word, but I try, yes, exactly,
Speaker 2: I mean, but we're both trying to do this.
Speaker 3: So earlier this year he dropped an amazing, amazing album
Speaker 3: called Neighborhood God's Unlimited and this is on his Auto
Speaker 3: Reverse label. And I gotta say, one of the adjustments
Speaker 3: I made in my life was not to put so
Speaker 3: much weight on critical acclaim. I stuck to critical claim
Speaker 3: because I felt that that was the surviving grace for
Speaker 3: my life. But I have to say that was a
Speaker 3: mighty damn impressed with seeing his eight point five rating
Speaker 3: and pitchfork, yo dog. I felt like de Niro felt
Speaker 3: when what's his name is getting made and goodfellas like
Speaker 3: like ah man, like one of us got through the
Speaker 3: other side, which is also sad state of affairs, because again,
Speaker 3: I'm not looking for the the critical gaze to make
Speaker 3: us legit or not legit.
Speaker 1: But anyway, all this.
Speaker 3: Long ass intros to say, even though we spoken a
Speaker 3: few times, I wanted to reverse the roles here and
Speaker 3: speak to him about his life because I kind of
Speaker 3: get the feeling that we are the same person and
Speaker 3: we should be friends.
Speaker 1: So hopefully this is that. So that's what's up. Open,
Speaker 1: Mike Eagle, Welcome to the Quest Love Show to Q.
Speaker 2: How are you today, man, I'm good, I'm good. Thanks
Speaker 2: for having me. Do you remember the airplane story that's
Speaker 2: when we first met. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 3: Okay, So here's we first met at we were sitting
Speaker 3: together in the airplane.
Speaker 2: And let me let me do it. Let me run it.
Speaker 2: Let's do your thing. I think it's funnier from my
Speaker 2: side anyway. Right is, So I'm in the I'm in
Speaker 2: one of those airport bars in Lax and it's me
Speaker 2: and my partner, Video Dave, sitting there Video Day and
Speaker 2: we look over and like, wait a minute, that look
Speaker 2: likes love over there. You know you have the thing. Internally,
Speaker 2: We're like, damn to be as aware of you as
Speaker 2: I am. I'm like, damn, should I go say what up?
Speaker 2: O don't know? But then I thought about it, like, nah,
Speaker 2: I've wrapped over one of his beats before. That at
Speaker 2: least is a conversational open. Because one of the joints
Speaker 2: that you slid MC Paul Barman, yeah, one of his albums,
Speaker 2: I got on that. So I'm like, well, that should
Speaker 2: at least give me a conversation. So I gave my
Speaker 2: self license to come say what up? So me and
Speaker 2: him we came and said what up? And it turned
Speaker 2: out we was both flying to Austin. I think it
Speaker 2: was south by Southwest weekend, yes, and I was being
Speaker 2: flown out there by Comedy Central because we were doing
Speaker 2: a premiere event for our show New Negroes. So this
Speaker 2: is one of the few times in my life I
Speaker 2: happened to be flying first class, and so we end
Speaker 2: up near each other on the plane. You're in the
Speaker 2: road next to each other. Well, but let me tell
Speaker 2: you how that happened, because that's funny too. I'm sitting
Speaker 2: actually behind you, to the left, and then there's a
Speaker 2: person to me, and then a lady comes who's about
Speaker 2: to sit down in first class, and she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: do you mind if me and you switch seats? And
Speaker 2: her seat was in front of me, next to you,
Speaker 2: and this woman was Jody Foster.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, you're right, you are absolutely right. Jody
Speaker 3: Foster was on this flight.
Speaker 2: Yes, uh huh uh. So I'm like, you're damn right,
Speaker 2: I'll switch seats with you, Jody Foster. And so I'm
Speaker 2: like yeah, and I'm like, man, I'm sitting next to
Speaker 2: quest Love. Ooh, I'm about to talk his ear off.
Speaker 2: And I think I even said that. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: if I come up there, so on exactly, because we
Speaker 2: must have exchanged six words, and at ten minutes in,
Speaker 2: you was out like a light. I'm talking about deep sleep.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, god, damn it. But the story would
Speaker 2: have been funny if it just ended there. But then
Speaker 2: the plane lands right, and you know, I think I
Speaker 2: got your number in because I'm like, at least I'm
Speaker 2: gonna do that. At least I'm gonna do that right.
Speaker 2: And then we get off the plane and I'm waiting
Speaker 2: on video day because Comedy Central didn't fly in first class,
Speaker 2: so I'm waiting on him. And then you walk out
Speaker 2: of the plane and you're like, oh, you forgot this,
Speaker 2: and you hand me my laptop, which I had left
Speaker 2: in the seat back pocket and completely forgot about. Like
Speaker 2: you saved my entire weekend and didn't even know it.
Speaker 2: Like I was there to do shows I wouldn't have
Speaker 2: been able to do because my laptop would have been
Speaker 2: in Montana somewhere and I would have been up Ship's Creek.
Speaker 2: So that's the story of how we actually met. Man.
Speaker 3: You can now verify probably the question that I'm asking
Speaker 3: the most people always ask, when do you sleep?
Speaker 1: Ye?
Speaker 2: Okay, I sent it. You're right because I seen it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the thing is is that if I sit fel
Speaker 3: for good ten minutes, there's.
Speaker 1: Likely, ugh that's likely to happen.
Speaker 3: I'm glad that the story ended that way because you know,
Speaker 3: there are also some people that will say that, wow,
Speaker 3: you're very stand offis Shamir and whatnot? You know, And
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's my work. I don't know
Speaker 3: if that's I'm trying to get better at being a
Speaker 3: people person.
Speaker 2: Aren't you not? Are you not already the ultimate people person? Like?
Speaker 2: What that's the thing from you?
Speaker 3: I think if there's a shield, like this is kind
Speaker 3: of a shield, you know, even though we're one on
Speaker 3: one in each other in conversation, if I'm writing something,
Speaker 3: people might think I'm chatty because of the you know,
Speaker 3: the same amount of paragraphs that I'll type in an
Speaker 3: Instagram post. One of my goals for twenty twenty six
Speaker 3: is to really go outside of my comfort zone like
Speaker 3: right now, you know, because I live in such an
Speaker 3: expansive world of me as a producer, me as the
Speaker 3: Tonight Show person, me as a root, me as a DJ, me.
Speaker 2: As an filmmaker.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all these things for each job I have, there's
Speaker 3: about eight to twelve people in that stratosphere. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I would say maybe the first twe hundred and twelve
Speaker 3: people in my life are friends, but you know, they're
Speaker 3: also on payroll, right and I really I say this,
Speaker 3: one of the hardest things for me to do is
Speaker 3: to step outside of that comfort zone.
Speaker 2: What do you think is outside of that comfort zone
Speaker 2: that you're wanting to experience?
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just see the convenience of this model right
Speaker 3: now is also it gives you probably the most convenient
Speaker 3: out ever because if we're not working together and it's
Speaker 3: not again, it's not personal. If we're not working together,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of a I'm trying to figure out the
Speaker 3: idiom that this fits. Like, if you're in my face,
Speaker 3: then we have interaction, right, but if you're not there, then,
Speaker 3: oh god, I sound like the worst person in the
Speaker 3: world right now.
Speaker 2: Well, I know, I think I know what you're trying
Speaker 2: to say. It's like when people aren't in your face,
Speaker 2: it's probably like they don't exist. And that's that's probably cold,
Speaker 2: Like you know, the words are cold, but I think
Speaker 2: it speaks to your focus on all of the things
Speaker 2: that you have to do. Right.
Speaker 3: The thing that people don't understand about this life I've
Speaker 3: lived for thirty five years. Like I think, on the
Speaker 3: average a person knows about you might could recall two
Speaker 3: hundred people. If you thing about it, it's probably you
Speaker 3: could probably recall maybe a good thirty people between elementary
Speaker 3: and junior high. You could probably name maybe twelve to
Speaker 3: fourteen people in your high school. Whatever jobs you've had,
Speaker 3: you might remember like three or four names. I'm sure
Speaker 3: if it's family members, you can add another forty to it.
Speaker 3: So for me, I think the average person by the
Speaker 3: time they reach thirty, knows at least about two hundred people.
Speaker 3: But when you're me, you know, like I know fifteen
Speaker 3: people in Miami. I know seventy people in Manhattan. I
Speaker 3: know one hundred people in Brooklyn. I know one hundred
Speaker 3: people in Los Angeles. I know twelve people in Paris.
Speaker 3: So if you take just the total number, when you're
Speaker 3: juggling six hundred people and names and faces and whatnot,
Speaker 3: and don't let someone change their hairstyle or whatnot.
Speaker 2: Oh jeez.
Speaker 3: And everyone's favorite question is do you remember me? Spike
Speaker 3: Lee fish out Yo Dog? For real? It's like, well,
Speaker 3: in my world everything is closer to scrubs or if
Speaker 3: you're old enough, Parker Lewis can't lose.
Speaker 2: Parker Lewis can't what a pull with.
Speaker 3: This sound effect, you know, So, because that to me
Speaker 3: is the most I used to that used to embarrass me,
Speaker 3: and that then it used to make me angry because
Speaker 3: it's like, really that's your intro. Okay, so what if
Speaker 3: the answers no, then we're both or I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 2: That means you've definitely answered no at some point. So
Speaker 2: what happens?
Speaker 3: Then my go to jokey but serious answer, which is
Speaker 3: the truth, is like, dog, I don't even remember what
Speaker 3: I had for breakfast this.
Speaker 2: Morning, right right right right right.
Speaker 3: I hope and I put it in perspective, but it's
Speaker 3: hard to spring clean and start all over again. But
Speaker 3: I know the one thing that I really want is
Speaker 3: I would like to have ten friends that aren't on
Speaker 3: payroll and really maintain because there's also a.
Speaker 1: Trust factor, a trust issue.
Speaker 3: I've done this before and then usually like seven months
Speaker 3: into it.
Speaker 1: An entitlement thing happens.
Speaker 2: When people feel entitled to your time or you feel
Speaker 2: entitled to theirs.
Speaker 3: Where people feel entitled to my accessibility, my resources. I
Speaker 3: don't know what the perception of me is outside of
Speaker 3: what I think the perception of me is, but I
Speaker 3: promise you that the world only knows twenty percent of
Speaker 3: the daily activities. Like there's some things that happen to
Speaker 3: me that are just so mind blowing. That and again,
Speaker 3: this is a separation anxiety thing, Like you don't want
Speaker 3: to be the guy that's like ostracized because you get
Speaker 3: a certain privilege that your friends don't get to have.
Speaker 3: You know, I want to be likable and relatable, but
Speaker 3: I also want to grow and relatable.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be tough, bro relatables going tough, right exactly?
Speaker 2: I mean, who do you who do you even have
Speaker 2: to compare experiences with? You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: I imagine a lot of people can relate to parts
Speaker 2: of your life, but the whole of it's gonna be
Speaker 2: hard for him to put together.
Speaker 3: I'm in a weird zone, yo, because it's like there
Speaker 3: is a period where I really thought, like Hoove and
Speaker 3: I were going to be tight, but he has a
Speaker 3: whole different set of reality and life matters that I
Speaker 3: can't relate to. He did it probably the most ideal way,
Speaker 3: which is that the people that are with him are
Speaker 3: the people that came in the door with him, right.
Speaker 3: I wound up doing a business with those people. I'll
Speaker 3: say that Tarik is probably the most consistent, and I've
Speaker 3: said this before, like we're going on thirty eight years
Speaker 3: where you know, he and I wait a minute, am
Speaker 3: I on your podcast again?
Speaker 2: I don't even start. Hey, man, how this is how
Speaker 2: friendship's happen? Man, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So basically our audience is just easdropping in on this conversation.
Speaker 3: You know, I started a business with Treiq, but then
Speaker 3: the danger of that is like I'm under the impression
Speaker 3: that you can't have a successful business, and I don't know.
Speaker 3: I see business and friendship as church and state.
Speaker 2: It's hard to do both, it really is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because when you have a conflict, like we had
Speaker 3: one conflict, one conflict back in ninety four, which it's
Speaker 3: in the asked, But I'm also once bitten twice shy person.
Speaker 3: So my only teachable lesson of that one fight we
Speaker 3: had back in ninety four was like, you know, I
Speaker 3: should keep a professional distance so that the business doesn't
Speaker 3: get ruined.
Speaker 2: And that will I mean, that can't help but affect
Speaker 2: a friendship. It can't help it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because the thing is is like the thing that
Speaker 3: I really miss about our friendship, you know those first
Speaker 3: and I mean, but this also applies to like the
Speaker 3: soul aquarians. This applies to even with the departure of di'angelo.
Speaker 3: The way I'm happy is the most is that he
Speaker 3: and I ended it the way that we started it.
Speaker 3: You know, in the beginning, we had to get to
Speaker 3: know each other and it was like, Hey, what music
Speaker 3: do you like?
Speaker 1: Hey? I like that music too. Hey, what artists you know?
Speaker 1: You know about this artist? You know about that? Artists
Speaker 1: you know about this? Oh, man, I listen to that
Speaker 1: record too. What you know about Fishbone?
Speaker 3: And once we found out that we had so much
Speaker 3: in common then and you know, that's how the musical
Speaker 3: marriage part of it happened, and so kind of the
Speaker 3: last three months we didn't have any instruments, and so
Speaker 3: it was weird at first, like sitting there, you know,
Speaker 3: by his bedside and us talking and kind of in
Speaker 3: the beginning, in the first like month or so, there
Speaker 3: was a point where I thought like, Okay, he's going
Speaker 3: to get through. This will be cool. Like we were
Speaker 3: like talking about normal. But I had such a fear
Speaker 3: in not having a protective shield of a drum set or.
Speaker 2: Just something else to focus on except yeah, because he
Speaker 2: happened this moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for that first hour, man for that first hour,
Speaker 3: I just sat there wondering, what does he think of
Speaker 3: the person in front of him now that's clearly wasn't
Speaker 3: the person whom he met thirty years ago. And I
Speaker 3: was in my head about I was like, I wondered
Speaker 3: if he's judging me. I wonder if he's did he
Speaker 3: think I was a sellout?
Speaker 2: Did he?
Speaker 3: You know we we once said mid mid Black Messiah.
Speaker 3: He really wasn't. He didn't know how he felt about
Speaker 3: us taking a day job.
Speaker 2: Interesting, did you see that a conversation that thought in
Speaker 2: Red Man?
Speaker 3: Had I seen the clip on ig? I didn't have
Speaker 3: time to watch the entire thing, but what we.
Speaker 2: Saying Red Man literally like they had a great conversation.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean this to steer away from the moment.
Speaker 2: The Red Man literally in the middle of the conversation
Speaker 2: asked him like what kind of reactions did y'all hear
Speaker 2: from people when y'all got a day job? Like and
Speaker 2: for me, it was mind blowing to even think that,
Speaker 2: especially on like the Indian side of this rap shit,
Speaker 2: like it's always so precarious financially, It's like, Wow, what
Speaker 2: how awesome would it be to have a gig, right,
Speaker 2: like a gig where you're you're not like, you know,
Speaker 2: stuff in boxes at Amazon. You're doing what you do musically,
Speaker 2: You're just getting paid to show up and do it.
Speaker 2: You know. To me, it's like it's it's that's pities
Speaker 2: from heaven, Like that's something anybody would want. But when
Speaker 2: he asked the question was like, oh shit, right, like
Speaker 2: from peers, from fans, like there are people who could
Speaker 2: have seen it as a sort of like selling out
Speaker 2: and that that thought. It never occurred to me until
Speaker 2: I heard him sit there and ask that question. And
Speaker 2: so it's interesting to hear that D'Angelo had some of
Speaker 2: those similar concerns.
Speaker 3: So the thing is, I always felt that the roots
Speaker 3: magic power was always being underestimated. And you know, the
Speaker 3: first the first time I felt that power of lowering
Speaker 3: your expectations only for your your expectations to fly, was
Speaker 3: when we did our first hood gig kind of out
Speaker 3: of the comfort zone of the utopian South Street, you know,
Speaker 3: where it's black white girls, boys d.
Speaker 2: Or not, you know, like it's off of shops and
Speaker 2: hair wraps and exactly home base, right.
Speaker 3: And the thing is is that I didn't know what
Speaker 3: the Prince's Lounge was. The Prince's Lounge was like this
Speaker 3: club in North Philly that I think was like part
Speaker 3: strip club, part bar or whatever. But they would have
Speaker 3: like some hip hop event or something. And you know
Speaker 3: the way that the Roots got our gigs was that
Speaker 3: people will just come up and be like, yo, play
Speaker 3: my poetry slam.
Speaker 1: You know, Philly had like five colleges.
Speaker 3: So someone from Temple comes up, someone from Saint Joe's
Speaker 3: comes up, someone from Drexel comes up. And that's basically
Speaker 3: how we got the word out about the Roots. And
Speaker 3: someone said like, yo, come to the Prince's Lounge whatever.
Speaker 3: We were like, just green, anybody willing to have us
Speaker 3: as an audience, We'll show up. And we co up
Speaker 3: to North Philly and we walk inside and I look
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh no, and they looking at
Speaker 3: us like you know the moment in the old Western
Speaker 3: where like the bad guy walks in and the piano
Speaker 3: stops playing and he closed piano and sets up shop
Speaker 3: like leaves, and you know, we're walking through and dog
Speaker 3: like I'm wearing exactly what I had on in the
Speaker 3: Motown Philly video, Like I got on Oshkosh Bagosh Jumpers
Speaker 3: this is the year I discovered where birken stocks were.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, he was doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know my hair was braided and now
Speaker 3: that's normal. But like it took no, oh, this is
Speaker 3: ninety two, okay, so this is three years after three
Speaker 3: feet high and rising. So it took that period of
Speaker 3: even having like it's like, why have him snakes in
Speaker 3: your head?
Speaker 1: Like people look at Dreadline, right, and I'm from Philly.
Speaker 3: So the way that they villainized as the Africa family
Speaker 3: from Osge Avenue, I lived on O s Ja Avenue,
Speaker 3: so Ramona, Africa.
Speaker 2: Airty, like all that family.
Speaker 3: The move family, you know, conservative Christian black people always
Speaker 3: being judgmental and that sort of thing. So they even
Speaker 3: looked at Dreadlock people as like demons and those are
Speaker 3: stakes in their heads. So they're just looking at us,
Speaker 3: like what planet did y'all land in? But they were
Speaker 3: also hip hop hits. So the second we started doing Dwick,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, that abyss sub zero judgmental thing
Speaker 3: went the opposite direction, and you know, they did their version.
Speaker 1: Of He's a jolly goodfellow.
Speaker 3: Like but that would happen also because seventy percent of
Speaker 3: all the gigs that we did between ninety three and
Speaker 3: ninety six were mainly Wu Tang cancelation shows at colleges,
Speaker 3: so you know, the audience this thing on, Hey guys,
Speaker 3: how you doing Brown University? It was hey, as you know,
Speaker 3: welcome to Spring fleeen nineteen ninety five. Ray Kwan and
Speaker 3: Ghost couldn't make it, but you know, but not to
Speaker 3: be out done, we have a really awesome group from Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: They're a live banded No No, no, No, The Roots, and
Speaker 3: it's like, m So the reason why we had to
Speaker 3: put so much emphasis on a live show, we knew
Speaker 3: we had ten minutes to make an impression. So all
Speaker 3: that's to say is like the lowered expectation part of
Speaker 3: it is something that I'm used to. And so I
Speaker 3: went into this job knowing. And sure enough, someone on
Speaker 3: I forgot what the reddit of, Like the Reddit of
Speaker 3: two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Nine was a message board or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was a message board of like a really popular
Speaker 3: and this journalist said, man, like, this is a sad
Speaker 3: day in history. Watching The Roots take a day job
Speaker 3: as a comedy show Sidekicks is the equivalent of watching
Speaker 3: Miles Davis become a Subway buster.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so that's a whole different paradigm than I
Speaker 2: never even would have but never would have answered my mind.
Speaker 1: But the thing was, I knew, I knew the amount
Speaker 1: of inside winking I was going to do taking advantage
Speaker 1: of the show, Like wait a minute, they're doing Jay
Speaker 1: Dillon interludes, they're doing what walk on song for.
Speaker 3: It, Like suddenly we were so underestimated that, Like I'm
Speaker 3: just used to that. I'm used to people kind of
Speaker 3: prejudging us. And you know, so in the case of DiAngelo,
Speaker 3: the fourteen year Journey of Black Messiah was ones with
Speaker 3: highs and lows in it. So the moment where like, Okay,
Speaker 3: now I live in New York and I'll come to
Speaker 3: the studio and start drumming and whatnot, he still didn't
Speaker 3: know he felt about it. And I was like, well,
Speaker 3: that's a weird unsolicited SoundBite you're giving.
Speaker 2: Me, so not even in a conversation. He's just offering
Speaker 2: this opinion of what you.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, just the first month, everyone was like,
Speaker 3: so late night television, huh. You know, there's some people
Speaker 3: that brought up bamboozle, the irony and bamboozles and you know,
Speaker 3: all this all this stuff, and I knew what he
Speaker 3: was hinting towards, like you're going to become the establishment.
Speaker 1: Now, huh, Like I see you, I see you, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, no.
Speaker 3: Like just because I'm wearing a suit on television doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that I'm burning cigars with one hundred dollar bills.
Speaker 3: And you know, we kind of had a heated it
Speaker 3: was like a heated two days of what I would
Speaker 3: call like if you if you remember Spy versus Spy
Speaker 3: and Man magazine, like kind of, uh.
Speaker 2: What you thinking?
Speaker 1: Oh what you think?
Speaker 3: Like I don't know if we're going to fight, argue.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm about to walk out in
Speaker 3: five minutes or we make a classic or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I kind of had to push back on him. It's
Speaker 3: sort of a passive aggressive way. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, man, like I said, I couldn't sit in
Speaker 3: the passenger see forever and look to my left and
Speaker 3: no one's behind the wheel.
Speaker 1: And He's like, what was that supposed to me?
Speaker 3: And you know I had to remind him, like we
Speaker 3: kind of in this weird I don't know if you
Speaker 3: ever read the epic of Gilga Mission or I haven't. Yeah, like, okay,
Speaker 3: I went to a school in which you had to
Speaker 3: read like all this Greek ideology, like.
Speaker 2: I supposed to read it. I just didn't.
Speaker 3: We went deep on like you know, the Odyssey and
Speaker 3: like all the Greek mythology stuff. When you know you're
Speaker 3: listening to hip hop back then, you want to know
Speaker 3: more about Africa, not Greek.
Speaker 1: Started starting a modern culture.
Speaker 3: But I thought we were supposed to be like this
Speaker 3: whole brothers in arms thing, like Okay, we're going to
Speaker 3: start a movement and take one step at a time
Speaker 3: together and do this movement. And I held up my
Speaker 3: end of the deal, you know, like no one takes
Speaker 3: a year off from their momentum to go and help
Speaker 3: someone else. Like the year that I took off was
Speaker 3: the year that we won the Grammy, we finally broke
Speaker 3: through the other side. Like that should have been the
Speaker 3: year we cashed in and kept the momentum going of
Speaker 3: the success that we got, and instead, you know, much
Speaker 3: of the band Cigrine, they were not happy with me
Speaker 3: and taken off an entire year. But I did it
Speaker 3: because I knew that was history and I wanted to
Speaker 3: be a part of history, and so he got offended that.
Speaker 3: I was like, well, you can't say that I'm selling
Speaker 3: out when you abandoned our movement. And so that was
Speaker 3: a hard kind of first few days where even when
Speaker 3: we were jamming with each other, it wasn't the same,
Speaker 3: like we changed those words. And then we start playing
Speaker 3: a groove and he's just like going through the motions
Speaker 3: and I'm not really dead, and I'm like, man, something
Speaker 3: better happened. I was all right, three am, I'm gonna leave.
Speaker 3: That's three am. All right, three fifteen. It don't happen.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna leave. And the craziest thing happened. I said,
Speaker 3: all right, let me just take a break and then
Speaker 3: we'll come back and just one more time.
Speaker 2: We're gonna try.
Speaker 3: This thing, and if it doesn't work this time, then
Speaker 3: it's an end of an era. And so I happened
Speaker 3: to go into the break room and The Fresh Prince
Speaker 3: of bel Air was on Nicked night.
Speaker 1: It was an episode where Carlton was doing the Carlton right.
Speaker 3: And earlier Dad played me sugar Daddy, and that made
Speaker 3: me mad because damn funkiest shit on this record, and
Speaker 3: I'm not on this record. I'm not on Sugar Daddy,
Speaker 3: And so that was fucking with me because he's like
Speaker 3: playing it.
Speaker 2: And like stank facing, like he's the.
Speaker 1: Only mother icker I know that gets high on his
Speaker 1: own supply.
Speaker 3: Like his level of funk moves him, like when he
Speaker 3: hears his ship, he feels that shit, and I have
Speaker 3: to act like I like it.
Speaker 1: Whoo, that's dope.
Speaker 2: You have to you have to not feel the self
Speaker 2: denial part of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I'm like, wait a minute, are you playing
Speaker 3: this for me because you want me to drum on
Speaker 3: this thing or.
Speaker 1: You just showing me that you moved on without me?
Speaker 3: And so you know, once he told me the story
Speaker 3: that Bill Withers drummer James Gapson, who is I mean,
Speaker 3: my idol. He is, like just his entire resume is
Speaker 3: just mind blowing. He tells the story that James and
Speaker 3: heard the groove for Sugar Daddy on Black Messiah, and
Speaker 3: he says, all right, play the song back for me,
Speaker 3: and he goes to the booth, puts the headphones on.
Speaker 3: He's just trying to figure out what he would do.
Speaker 3: So he starts doing this like then he picks up
Speaker 3: to six. He's like, all right, I'm ready to go
Speaker 3: and they're like, no, that was it, thank you. He's
Speaker 3: like no, no, no, I was just hit my lap.
Speaker 3: Like oh, They're like that was perfect.
Speaker 1: James Gadson never played the drums because just the.
Speaker 3: Whole hand boon sound though the collapse in Sugar Daddy
Speaker 3: was enough for D'Angelo and I was like, well, damn,
Speaker 3: that's an incredible story.
Speaker 1: So I definitely know I'm not drumming on this song.
Speaker 3: And so the whole time, like I feel like an outcast,
Speaker 3: Like not only am I getting judged for a career
Speaker 3: move I did, but now you're just flawning in me
Speaker 3: that you got someone else that's my idol from my
Speaker 3: childhood and you know I got someone better than like
Speaker 3: that sort of thing. And so in my mind, I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: this is probably gonna be the funky song on the record.
Speaker 3: So I immediately went back to Prince Language and I said,
Speaker 3: if this is Sheila E's album, this song is a
Speaker 3: love Bizarre. And for if you're a Prince fan and
Speaker 3: you listen to Sheila EA's record, love Bizarre is third
Speaker 3: on that album. But for me, the way that my
Speaker 3: mind thinks in terms of sequencing, Love Bizarre really starts
Speaker 3: with the second song, which is Dear Michael Angelo, which
Speaker 3: is a song that people ignore. But if you are
Speaker 3: an album person, you know what's happening next. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's almost like knowing that Billy Jean's gonna come right
Speaker 3: after beat It, or that human nature is gonna come
Speaker 3: at like you can't separate the positioning of other songs
Speaker 3: and how you judge an album.
Speaker 2: Skypager into scenario.
Speaker 1: Exactly, we don't treat what as its own song?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: What is just a movie trailer?
Speaker 2: Oh? What in? Instead of just right?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: So basically what is an incredible song? But in your mind,
Speaker 3: you know you got three minutes to do what you
Speaker 3: gotta do so that when that Areo comes on, you're
Speaker 3: all in. And I've never listened to what on its
Speaker 3: own without expecting what chicka what?
Speaker 1: Right? In my mind?
Speaker 3: This is this is how calculating I am, and how
Speaker 3: petty I am. I said, okay, okay, I need to
Speaker 3: get in front of this train. Whatever song comes before
Speaker 3: Sugar Daddy, I need to be on that song. I
Speaker 3: got to create the Dear Michael Angelo that comes right
Speaker 3: before Love Bizarre. And so I'm back on the drum
Speaker 3: set and I'm thinking of Carolton doing this dance. So
Speaker 3: I said, okay, I'm gonna take you out your comfort zone.
Speaker 3: D I'm not gonna do no head nodding dell of shit.
Speaker 3: And I started playing this thing on the time time.
Speaker 3: I'm not even looking at dal on the piano. I'm
Speaker 3: just in my mind. I'm trying to imagine people in
Speaker 3: the audience, black people doing the Carlton or like, like,
Speaker 3: I want this shit to sound like Fleetwood Mac shit
Speaker 3: with some ump to it. And I don't know how
Speaker 3: I forced the will, but this is out the song
Speaker 3: charade got made, which I was like, I gotta be
Speaker 3: the song that's right before Sugar Daddy.
Speaker 1: So that I can territorial piss.
Speaker 3: And then when I'm done, okay, James Gatson, come in
Speaker 3: with your little hands lap so you know all that
Speaker 3: have to say?
Speaker 1: Is that back to his hospital bed?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I just wondered, was he going to to
Speaker 3: judge what became of my life, you know, because I
Speaker 3: became so professional To them, I was a professional, you know.
Speaker 2: But look at what you use your profession to do.
Speaker 2: Though some are a soul and slid stone, like you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, it's it's using your profession to
Speaker 2: advance the same shit that everybody knows was fly though,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: feel like that's a different way to go about it.
Speaker 2: It is sellout shit, you know, I know.
Speaker 3: But you know, I think there's this mind state that
Speaker 3: when we're in this rock and roll lifestyle or whatever
Speaker 3: it is, that it's supposed to be debaucherius. It's supposed
Speaker 3: to be hedonistic. It's supposed to be Watch the Lenny
Speaker 3: Kravits Where Are We Running video? That's a great example.
Speaker 3: Look at where are We Running from? Lenny Kravitz. And
Speaker 3: for most people, that's what the rock star's supposed to be,
Speaker 3: like like a bottle jack in your hands. You know,
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be irresponsible, and if you're responsible.
Speaker 1: Then you're seen as a suit or whatever.
Speaker 3: So you know that said, I'm in a position in
Speaker 3: which I don't think of myself as like the privilege
Speaker 3: one percent or whatever, like people think the monopoly whateverver,
Speaker 3: the monocule monopoly guy is like the feed up on
Speaker 3: the desk. I'm not that person. But I'm also not
Speaker 3: the guy who's count up change. So that Treaka and
Speaker 3: I can split a bag of Famous Amos cookies and
Speaker 3: a half gallon of orange juice while we watched Do
Speaker 3: the Right Thing for the twentieth time in the living room.
Speaker 3: So but you know, I will say that the conversation was,
Speaker 3: you know, he was proud of what my life had become.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, anyway, I've realized that maybe for
Speaker 3: the first fifty.
Speaker 1: Minutes of this podcast it won't up being your podcast.
Speaker 3: So I want to know from you, new friend, what
Speaker 3: is your general warning routine.
Speaker 2: I make my little healthy breakfast. It's strawberries, blackberries, yogurt
Speaker 2: and pecans and a bowl, and I have coffee and
Speaker 2: I do wordle.
Speaker 3: And then speaking of Barnman, is he also sending you
Speaker 3: his custom word awards?
Speaker 2: Now no, I don't think so. I don't think I've
Speaker 2: gotten a custom wordal he sends me a lot of wraps.
Speaker 3: Okay, so now that wordle is almost at the bottom
Speaker 3: of the barrel with five letter words, they probably, I believe,
Speaker 3: at the top of two thousand and twenty seven, they
Speaker 3: will have going through every five letter word that's not
Speaker 3: a proper down. I mean, you know, Frank is a
Speaker 3: proper down and Trump is a proper you know. So
Speaker 3: now they're figuring out new ways to deliver words. So
Speaker 3: now you can make up your own wordal clue and
Speaker 3: hand it to your people's right.
Speaker 2: I did see that functionality, but I haven't used it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Varmin's already on it. So you are conscious of
Speaker 3: your health in terms had.
Speaker 2: To be man because in the pandemic so right at
Speaker 2: the beginning of it, I also got divorced. So suddenly,
Speaker 2: as an adult, I'm really living on my own for
Speaker 2: the first time too, other than when I have my son. Right,
Speaker 2: I looked up one day and stepped on a scale
Speaker 2: and saw a number I couldn't even believe, Like I
Speaker 2: couldn't even like, I couldn't believe that my body could
Speaker 2: do that much bread, I mean that much everything. At
Speaker 2: that time, what I was eating for breakfast was like
Speaker 2: a fried chicken sausage sandwich in an English muffin and
Speaker 2: an egg and a you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 2: I had a little fruit bias. I thought I was
Speaker 2: doing something, but like I just wasn't paying attention to
Speaker 2: how I was eating. I didn't know how to cook.
Speaker 2: I was eating a bunch of frozen shit. I was
Speaker 2: eating take out all the time, and I wasn't really
Speaker 2: being active. So you know, I look at what it
Speaker 2: happened was that I did with with like Lpe or
Speaker 2: that I did with Dante Ross, and yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 2: my neck is like two times wider than it's supposed
Speaker 2: to be, right, and you know, and I remember what
Speaker 2: my body looked like then too. But you know, I
Speaker 2: started being more health conscious when I saw that that number,
Speaker 2: and so it drastically changed how I eat because I
Speaker 2: actually started to learn about food and shit. You know.
Speaker 3: See you're round about being forty five on the new
Speaker 3: album You're forty five right now.
Speaker 2: I turned forty five tomorrow, God damn tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well happy, Uh by the time it's
Speaker 3: theres you will have been.
Speaker 2: Forty five, of course, of course, thank you.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like there's an unspoken pandemic happening with
Speaker 3: anyone that's in the rap game and their inability to
Speaker 3: get past the age of fifty?
Speaker 2: I think I need you to say a little bit
Speaker 2: more about that, because my mind interpret that a few
Speaker 2: different ways.
Speaker 3: Okay, So my girl once kind of joked that, you know,
Speaker 3: there was a point where follow me on Instagram was
Speaker 3: very depressing because she said that your Instagram is basically
Speaker 3: a digital morgue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and you.
Speaker 1: Know, I was kind of in denial and I was like,
Speaker 1: let me look, and then when I.
Speaker 3: Looked, I was like, wow, okay, Well what I stopped
Speaker 3: doing was, you know, in normal times, you know, two
Speaker 3: thousand and fourteen, fifteen sixties, whatever, you know, like the
Speaker 3: early first five years in Instagram.
Speaker 1: Of course I'm gonna like, hey, my favorite bowl of cereal,
Speaker 1: or I got.
Speaker 2: This new drum set mundane sort of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And somehow my finger just became more concentrated about
Speaker 3: things that I'm obligated to post and things that, you know,
Speaker 3: but most importantly because I didn't want history to be lost. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I will talk about this MC passing away and that
Speaker 3: MC passingway, and this drummer passed away, and this musician
Speaker 3: passing away. And there was one point where there was
Speaker 3: more death posts than there were just regular life posts.
Speaker 3: I wonder, just in general, because of a lot of
Speaker 3: your subject matters of just like like when you rhyme,
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm listening to the inside thoughts of
Speaker 3: your head. Of course, you know, it's not exterior rhymes.
Speaker 3: It's not about I'm the best at my craft, and
Speaker 3: I'll take all.
Speaker 2: Used to be it used to be right.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that as far as your evolution is concerned,
Speaker 1: I clearly feel that all your rhymes are coming from
Speaker 1: what your inner voice is saying.
Speaker 2: It's some part of my mind talking to the other
Speaker 2: part or what part of aizations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, five parts of our brain alpha, beta, faded, data,
Speaker 3: and gamma, And I feel like those four kind of
Speaker 3: like inside out right, like they're Pixar.
Speaker 2: Is inside out.
Speaker 3: And so in general, I'll ask you, like, during this
Speaker 3: time period, is this a thought or concern of you.
Speaker 1: Have you ever said when I'm sixty, when I'm seventy,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't have kids, So I think maybe when you
Speaker 3: have a kid, you have a purpose.
Speaker 2: There is a sort of force of will to me
Speaker 2: that feels like it shifts into automatic once you do
Speaker 2: have a child. I don't know if that serves true
Speaker 2: for everybody, because certainly there's many people who have kids
Speaker 2: who you also feel like that will to exists not
Speaker 2: necessarily continued on, but I did feel that shift personally,
Speaker 2: that there was a certain offloading of desire to exist
Speaker 2: just for myself, but to also make sure that this
Speaker 2: being that I care about more than anything in the
Speaker 2: world is also provided for and that I'm here for him,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So for you, it's just the second he came on
Speaker 1: earth and you just felt.
Speaker 2: Like it changed everything. It really did. It really did change.
Speaker 2: It put everything that I did in a different context.
Speaker 2: But the hard part about that is that it puts
Speaker 2: my mistakes in a different context too. Like I had
Speaker 2: a couple like a couple of years ago, maybe even
Speaker 2: just over a year ago. I was like the brokest
Speaker 2: I've ever been in my life, and it had me
Speaker 2: questioning my life choices existentially because it's like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: have lived so many of my dreams, but what does
Speaker 2: it matter if I have nothing to provide for my child?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Like, what how is he?
Speaker 2: He's sixteen? Okay? You know, Like, what is the value
Speaker 2: of having lived one's dream if that only adds up
Speaker 2: to seventeen dollars and you have a mouth to feed?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It's like those it's a
Speaker 2: different way of looking at everything I've been able to accomplish,
Speaker 2: not that you know, of course, success and money aren't
Speaker 2: always hand in hand, but specifically in the context of
Speaker 2: how having a child makes you examine the things you've
Speaker 2: done and the choices you make.
Speaker 3: You know, all right, I almost feel like this would
Speaker 3: be a private conversation, but I want you to no,
Speaker 3: I want you to stay here because for me, one
Speaker 3: of the biggest fears I have in life is becoming
Speaker 3: a father fear and I'm not a father, and I
Speaker 3: have kicked that can down the road, all right, when
Speaker 3: I'm thirty three, I'm ready. All right, I'm thirty six.
Speaker 3: And all it takes is just like a day with
Speaker 3: one of the Root's kids for me to be like, Nope,
Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I wait till I'm forty one.
Speaker 3: All right, forty five, I'll wait till that, and it's
Speaker 3: time to shit it. Get off the pot. This is
Speaker 3: the first time I'm asking these questions. I can't believe
Speaker 3: I'm using my own platform to ask these questions.
Speaker 1: So what was the feeling sixteen years ago?
Speaker 2: I mean, I was in a very stable partnership with
Speaker 2: a very stable person. The only instability was really me
Speaker 2: and my artistic endeavors and the risks involved in that.
Speaker 2: And I certainly thought with all of my cells right
Speaker 2: that in that year, like when I was living that
Speaker 2: year of two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: that this is I'm committing to this future, like this
Speaker 2: is this is the partnership I'm going to be in
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. So this is the
Speaker 2: perfect time to bring a child into the world.
Speaker 3: Am I allowed to ask did you plan or just
Speaker 3: plank plan?
Speaker 1: Did you feel like you were ready?
Speaker 3: Because in my mind, I always felt like, Okay, I
Speaker 3: got to make this amount of money and I got
Speaker 3: to have these projects done and everything, and then then
Speaker 3: I'm ready Or is it just a thing where you
Speaker 3: just jump in the water.
Speaker 2: And I mean there was a little jump in the water,
Speaker 2: like I said, Like my partner at the time was
Speaker 2: in a very stable, like rock solid place, and I
Speaker 2: still had a lot to figure out career wise, Like
Speaker 2: at that point, I honestly didn't know if I was
Speaker 2: going to be able to successfully make a career out
Speaker 2: of music or not. But I was like, if not,
Speaker 2: then I'll just get another day job, because I had
Speaker 2: always had day jobs up until that point. And when
Speaker 2: confronted with those thoughts of I don't know if I
Speaker 2: could do this. What I will always do is just
Speaker 2: look around and and remember that like almost every adult
Speaker 2: in my purview, and this is just people in my circles,
Speaker 2: people at the grocery store or whatever, like a very
Speaker 2: small number of these people were planned, Like every all
Speaker 2: of these people were babies once, and very very few
Speaker 2: of them were planned. And it just reminds you that
Speaker 2: just like as a species, we've just been doing this.
Speaker 2: We've been doing this for thousands of years, Like we
Speaker 2: know how to do it. We know how to take
Speaker 2: care of kids, we know how to put our lives
Speaker 2: in a position where if we give a shit enough
Speaker 2: to do this, we'll figure it out, you know. Like
Speaker 2: I that was a thought that comforted me a lot, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm looking on I'm looking at NBA on T and T.
Speaker 2: I'm like, damn Shaquille O'Neil with somebody's baby ones Like
Speaker 2: that's crazy, you know what I'm saying. But like literally
Speaker 2: all of us were in that position, and very few
Speaker 2: of us were in that position in the most ideal circumstances,
Speaker 2: Like that's not how it goes. Like we all have
Speaker 2: sex and then people have kids, and then people figure
Speaker 2: it out. I was a child of the eighties crack era.
Speaker 2: My mom got in a lot of trouble when I
Speaker 2: was young. My grandparents raised me. You know, shit happened
Speaker 2: to me, Shit happen to all the kids that I know.
Speaker 2: And I've had to check myself a lot and making
Speaker 2: sure that I wasn't being overprotective of my son. In
Speaker 2: ways it didn't even make any sense, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: he's in a different circumstance than I would in so
Speaker 2: many ways, Like not only is.
Speaker 1: He in LA with you now? Like where, Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: in LA.
Speaker 2: He's in LA. Like he goes to school in Culver City,
Speaker 2: Like it's not the South Side of Chicago in the
Speaker 2: late eighties. You know what I'm saying, Like it's a
Speaker 2: different environment. There's threats, but there's they're very different, and
Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily like my fears aren't going to prepare
Speaker 2: him for the environment that he's in right now. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. It doesn't translate like so I'm
Speaker 2: always monitoring for dangers that I am aware of.
Speaker 1: What does his father look out for or worry about?
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty five, the internet or a sixteen year
Speaker 2: old kid the Internet?
Speaker 1: Oh damn, I don't even think about that.
Speaker 2: The Internet, like the Internet, who he's playing, I mean,
Speaker 2: it all goes back to the Internet, because it can
Speaker 2: be social media, it can be who he's playing online
Speaker 2: games with, you know what I'm saying, Like you got
Speaker 2: to look out for people on roadblocks, and you know,
Speaker 2: like what's robots roadblocks is a it's a game engine,
Speaker 2: but it's a closed sort of economy where you like
Speaker 2: a bunch of people make difference types of games in roadblocks.
Speaker 2: But predators go crazy in there grooming kids on roadblocks.
Speaker 2: Like it's a very serious thing, like like you know,
Speaker 2: you can you can enact protections to make sure that
Speaker 2: you know, things are as safe as possible, but it's
Speaker 2: just such a wild West part of gaming that like,
Speaker 2: predators have really taken a hold of that spot.
Speaker 3: And Doug, I literally thought, the only thing I have
Speaker 3: to worry about is sending them to the story to
Speaker 3: get toilet paper or by flower or I didn't even
Speaker 3: fathom or think about that part of life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the that's the part and like all
Speaker 2: of my fears, you know what I'm saying, all of
Speaker 2: the ghetto myths we used to make up like that
Speaker 2: that's always so interesting to me to think about. Like
Speaker 2: we used to make up villains in the hood, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, and they were reflective of real things.
Speaker 2: But we used to like tell like it's almost like
Speaker 2: ghost stories about shit that would happen to you, like,
Speaker 2: and that was the way we sort of knew how
Speaker 2: to stay safe for whatever. But like, yeah, like it
Speaker 2: don't translate to now. And I think being very mindful
Speaker 2: of you know, your kids not having accounts on things,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to control the screen time and all
Speaker 2: of that shit is really important. Like it's really important.
Speaker 3: So a new fifteen year old just entered my life
Speaker 3: right now in terms of mentorship, and you know, their
Speaker 3: parents sort of expressed a concern or fear of like
Speaker 3: explaining like this is the most dangerous times of the life.
Speaker 3: For me, that dangerous time was seven to nine, like
Speaker 3: you know, the whole don't take candy from a stranger,
Speaker 3: don't you know.
Speaker 2: But but you know what that's reflective of too, is
Speaker 2: that when we were younger, we used to go out
Speaker 2: outside by ourselves, right right, And that's not really a
Speaker 2: thing that happens now. So society has sort of changed
Speaker 2: on that level too, Like I'm not. I never sent
Speaker 2: my son to the store when he was nine or
Speaker 2: ten by himself to do anything like this is like,
Speaker 2: and if he had been seen walking around my neighborhood
Speaker 2: or his mom's neighborhood at that age, it would have
Speaker 2: looked crazy. Really yeah, really, I think so, Like I
Speaker 2: think kids walking around with other kids, that's one thing.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, like a third fourth grader walking
Speaker 2: around solo, I don't see that much out here.
Speaker 3: Then I'm the most blessed even being on earth, because like,
Speaker 3: starting in third grade by myself, I would take the trolley,
Speaker 3: the subway and another train to go to school circle
Speaker 3: back by myself, and.
Speaker 2: Did a lot of that too when I was younger.
Speaker 2: But I think that if I sent my kid out
Speaker 2: into the world now the way I was sent out
Speaker 2: into the world, it would look crazy.
Speaker 3: So this is one of the adjustment things that I
Speaker 3: thought was normal in the seventies and eighties, like a
Speaker 3: like a carporal punishment, like we are like I think
Speaker 3: I think it's similar to that, Like that sort of
Speaker 3: all thought that was normal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, got it.
Speaker 1: To our listeners out there. I really apologized. I was
Speaker 1: trying to sneak in Mike's profession.
Speaker 3: But I told you guys at the beginning that the
Speaker 3: format of the show is gonna be way different than
Speaker 3: just like your first musical memory, what was your first
Speaker 3: memory in life?
Speaker 2: I want to say it was walking into my grandmother's
Speaker 2: apartment when I was like I had to be three
Speaker 2: or four or something like that. But the reason I
Speaker 2: would remember it is because it became where I lived,
Speaker 2: you know, So I feel like it was my first
Speaker 2: time walking into what would become my childhood home.
Speaker 3: And for the record, and this blew my mind when
Speaker 3: I did your podcast, could you share with the audience
Speaker 3: the first rap song you ever heard in your life?
Speaker 2: Oh? My mom, I got in a car. Remember I
Speaker 2: told you my I got in some trouble because she
Speaker 2: was she was an eighties kind of party girl some
Speaker 2: so oh is she when she has you? Oh? I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how if I know how to
Speaker 2: do that math, but I would say it had to
Speaker 2: be early twenties. I had to be early twenties, Okay.
Speaker 2: I got in her car because this is one of
Speaker 2: the days I wasn't living with her, but she picked
Speaker 2: me up from school that day. We was staying at
Speaker 2: her house for the weekend. R This was first grade.
Speaker 2: I get in her car and she's playing Easy. I
Speaker 2: distinctly remember hearing we Want Easy, and I remember hearing
Speaker 2: is it Nobody Moved, Nobody get hurt? Yes, those are
Speaker 2: Those are the two songs that I remember because I
Speaker 2: just couldn't wrap my head around like the bang process. Yes,
Speaker 2: the process by which this was happening, Like I didn't
Speaker 2: know how to deal with it, Like I'm in my
Speaker 2: mother's car, I'm hearing music with curse words in it
Speaker 2: that doesn't like it made me feel like if I
Speaker 2: was in a movie and it would have been a
Speaker 2: part where she would have covered my eyes, but like
Speaker 2: she's just playing it. And this guy's voice sounds funny,
Speaker 2: like I can't even tell if he's like a serious
Speaker 2: person or not.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a cartoon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was incredibly entertaining to me. And I'm just
Speaker 2: sitting here like wide eyed and slack jaw, like not
Speaker 2: even knowing how to engage with this. And that was
Speaker 2: the first rap music I ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1: At ten years old. What do you remember about Chicago?
Speaker 2: So that's when I'm going to Drake elementary school, which
Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore, but it was a school in the
Speaker 2: middle of the projects. One of my craziest memories from
Speaker 2: that school is that we had a kid who transferred
Speaker 2: in seemed like a generally cool kid, got along with everybody.
Speaker 2: He was leaning back in his chair one day in
Speaker 2: the back of the class and we all heard a
Speaker 2: crash and everybody started laughing because he fell. But then
Speaker 2: he like didn't get up, and then they took him
Speaker 2: to the hospital. And I still don't understand these words,
Speaker 2: but the teacher told us that they were told that
Speaker 2: this little boy, because he went he was living in
Speaker 2: the projects immediately surrounding the school. This little boy had
Speaker 2: a s them full of cocaine when he went to
Speaker 2: the hospital, and they were saying they don't know if
Speaker 2: he had an older sibling or something, or a parent
Speaker 2: who was dealing, but like it like h shit, just
Speaker 2: completely like an overdose basically for a child. And so
Speaker 2: that week all of our curriculum was thrown out of
Speaker 2: the window and we just had like Dare Like it
Speaker 2: was like Dare programming like all week long.
Speaker 3: When I first visited Chicago, I mean, we were taught
Speaker 3: to fear Chicago and really a lot of these one
Speaker 3: stop shops, you know, when you're first promoting your record
Speaker 3: and all that stuff, you gotta go to Georgia's record
Speaker 3: shops and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And we were just told, like Chicago has more projects.
Speaker 3: Per capita, like you know, Cabrina Green's right there, and
Speaker 3: Oprah's Pinhounce is right there, like it was amongst each other.
Speaker 3: So in general, are you walking around like it's normal
Speaker 3: or are you consumed with any second you could be
Speaker 3: out of here.
Speaker 2: So it felt very normal to me, but I could
Speaker 2: tell that to the adults in my life, it wasn't
Speaker 2: very normal. Like I could tell that to my grandparents,
Speaker 2: it wasn't very normal. Like we would hear gunshots outside
Speaker 2: of our building and they would tell us to get low,
Speaker 2: but like you could you could see that it was
Speaker 2: like very frustrating to them, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Like we didn't live in the projects. We lived in
Speaker 2: a you know, a set of high rises that were
Speaker 2: very close to us, another set of projects. So for us,
Speaker 2: it was normal, like hearing gunshots, like crime, like you know, crackheads, crackheads.
Speaker 2: We had, you know, like drug addicts in our family
Speaker 2: and seeing your auntie turn into something else that was
Speaker 2: very normal. But when I look back on it, it
Speaker 2: seems crazy and like I feel like even now it
Speaker 2: would be nuts to see some of the stuff that
Speaker 2: we saw. But at the time it did feel normal.
Speaker 2: It didn't feel like and I used to come to
Speaker 2: call the four yar a lot too. My dad always
Speaker 2: lived out here, okay, but it never felt like super
Speaker 2: crazier than La to me.
Speaker 3: If I think of my childhood, I miss it and
Speaker 3: reminisce it often I go back. I'll rent a car
Speaker 3: just to drive in Philly, Yeah, and just sit on
Speaker 3: the corner, no specific destination. I'll just sit in front
Speaker 3: of my grandmother's house. Never get out the car. But
Speaker 3: just like that in Chicago, wonder like just see if
Speaker 3: old ghilst pass by for for you, like, do you
Speaker 3: have fond memories of what I would assume is one
Speaker 3: of the most dangerous times in Chicago.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because it was my childhood, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Like it was my childhood now, you know, because of
Speaker 2: all of that. And it's funny because it reminds me
Speaker 2: of the pandemic in a way, because of all of
Speaker 2: the hurricane, the bullshit I grew up in. I was
Speaker 2: in a house a lot, so you know, the boom
Speaker 2: boxes and all of that shit, the stereos, like that's
Speaker 2: all Like I'm trying. I'm trying to, like Rea plain
Speaker 2: memories of shit that was in my house that I
Speaker 2: grew up in and I felt very safe, and you know,
Speaker 2: like my fond memories are around like playing Nintendo, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Or like certain parts of episodes
Speaker 2: of The Cosby Show, you know, like like you know,
Speaker 2: it was earlier we were talking about you said the
Speaker 2: Epica gilgame action. In my head, I'm like Cleveland notes,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, version a cliff note,
Speaker 2: like that ype of stuff.
Speaker 1: That episode, or you end up on the street or
Speaker 1: on the street when they did that, like.
Speaker 2: That that type of shit MTV at that time, Nickelodeon
Speaker 2: at that time, Like that's a lot of shit. Like
Speaker 2: when I live stream sometimes I just find like our
Speaker 2: long blocks of time people have uploaded from you know,
Speaker 2: MTV nineteen ninety one, and well I'll just play that
Speaker 2: and react to it just because it takes me back
Speaker 2: to that place, Like a lot of that media is
Speaker 2: so important to me.
Speaker 1: Did you ever dream of escaping it.
Speaker 2: I think I did escape it. But that's how I
Speaker 2: escaped it was through the media, through music, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like through through the music in my headphones.
Speaker 2: Like that's I know it's fucked up when I say this,
Speaker 2: but it's the truth for me. It's why I never
Speaker 2: really got excited or could fuck with gangster rap because
Speaker 2: it always sounded like the shit going on outside my window.
Speaker 2: And I had enough of that shit, like trying to
Speaker 2: go to school, you know what I'm saying. I had
Speaker 2: enough of that shit. Lily wasn't funny to me. It
Speaker 2: wasn't cute to me, like like and we were talking
Speaker 2: about easy E but that felt like more of an abstracted,
Speaker 2: sort of cartoonist version of it. But like real serious
Speaker 2: gangster rap. I had zero appetite for that shit. Zero.
Speaker 3: I think that music was created for those that vicariously
Speaker 3: wanted to know what we were like without having to
Speaker 3: physically come in.
Speaker 2: And experience the voy your experience, you know. But I've
Speaker 2: known a lot of people even you know, in those
Speaker 2: environments that really connected to that because that's what felt
Speaker 2: authentic and really and they wanted the music that reflected outside.
Speaker 2: I just never wanted that. But that's why I think
Speaker 2: that's the answer to your question, because to me, the
Speaker 2: escapism was always like what sounds different than this? What
Speaker 2: looks different than this? You know?
Speaker 3: So I have a theory that you know, once nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety seven came nineteen ninety seven, really ninety two, but
Speaker 3: it came to fruition in ninety seven in which I
Speaker 3: felt that there was these lines drawn in the sand
Speaker 3: where suddenly now there are successful rappers, a list rappers,
Speaker 3: privileged a list successful rappers, and then to my left,
Speaker 3: you know, they're the underground, backpack rappers, you know, the subculture,
Speaker 3: the abyss, the below underground, and then there's the middle ground,
Speaker 3: right kind of a person that has their foot in
Speaker 3: both of these things?
Speaker 1: You know, in general, do you still feel the.
Speaker 3: Apartheid effect of you know, like if you were to
Speaker 3: meet a playboy PARTI right now, even though look I
Speaker 3: did understand the age difference and all those things right
Speaker 3: right right, Like, is it still the three way civil
Speaker 3: war apartheid that I felt it was back in ninety.
Speaker 1: Ninety seven.
Speaker 2: I mean, you saying you felt it was, I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: on the ground it definitely was that. Now, part of
Speaker 2: it was marketing that we bought into, but it was
Speaker 2: serious for us. Like I was part of the kids
Speaker 2: that were ciphering on the corner. Like so when something
Speaker 2: like soundbombing or lyricist lounge came out, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is for me, this is for us, this is
Speaker 2: our shit, right like so that and then how the
Speaker 2: roots of that sin not intended, but the rulers of
Speaker 2: that sprang up and you know, you get you get
Speaker 2: most deaf and quality, and then they're messing with y'all
Speaker 2: and common. So like there's there's a sort of line
Speaker 2: to be drawn, you know, like back to but did you.
Speaker 3: Know that you were choosing the duebs? Did you know
Speaker 3: that you were choosing the Yeah, because the losers? Yo,
Speaker 3: I was in high school. Like I was in high school.
Speaker 2: I was in high school in Chicago, where like there
Speaker 2: were enormous philosophical, sometimes heated debates about Biggie versus pop,
Speaker 2: and I was part of the crew that was like,
Speaker 2: fuck both of them. We don't listen to none of
Speaker 2: that shit. We was listening to like early MF. Doom
Speaker 2: and Cool Keith and you know Doctor Octagon like like
Speaker 2: and really we were rapping, we were underground. Of course
Speaker 2: we were the dwebs. Like that was us, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, And if you fast forward to now,
Speaker 2: I think what I often have to be careful of
Speaker 2: is not bringing those old dichotomies that I have learned.
Speaker 2: I had to undo the marketing part of it. Like
Speaker 2: I had to undo the fact that like a lot
Speaker 2: of these were artists signed to different offices within the
Speaker 2: same building, and you know, they were pointing back at
Speaker 2: us saying that this is the real shit and then
Speaker 2: this is the popular shit. But they was making the
Speaker 2: same money either way, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: I have to like investigate a lot of that and
Speaker 2: make sure that I'm not bringing a lot of that
Speaker 2: with me, because one thing that I've learned is very
Speaker 2: clear is that the audience doesn't separate them. The audience
Speaker 2: like listeners hip hop fans these days, they fuck with everything.
Speaker 2: They don't mean that they like every artist, but they're
Speaker 2: not going to not listen to somebody because they're underground.
Speaker 2: They're not going to not listen to somebody because they're
Speaker 2: mainstream or because they're popular.
Speaker 1: This is where we might differ.
Speaker 3: I'm under the impression based on just their early Internet
Speaker 3: reaction or just you know, it could be just the
Speaker 3: seven people that would catch me at the diner after
Speaker 3: show in Denver, or me putting my crates back in
Speaker 3: the car after a gig and you know, Houston or something.
Speaker 3: I was under the impression that a big part of
Speaker 3: our success was it's one thing to be chosen, like
Speaker 3: I choose you, like I choose to listen.
Speaker 1: It's open mic eagle.
Speaker 3: But I was finding out that a big part of
Speaker 3: our fan base or the attendees was more like, nah, man,
Speaker 3: I hate.
Speaker 2: That, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: Which kind of makes me feel like, oh, well, you're
Speaker 3: the only one left. It would be like, you know,
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, there's nothing worse than being
Speaker 3: the last person chosen for.
Speaker 2: Anything A sported, a dodgeball team or whatever. The fuck.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, I'm here, you know, And sometimes
Speaker 1: I felt like that, Like I.
Speaker 2: Do, think it was different, but I'm but this is
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. The marketing was in effect then. But
Speaker 2: right if you look at let's look at doctor MC.
Speaker 2: Would anybody be surprised to see him on a song?
Speaker 2: Which or J Cole or you know, Drake and people
Speaker 2: still like them or Kendrick or anybody like is there
Speaker 2: like maybe thoughting Carti is a little too far right,
Speaker 2: But that's more of a stylistic thing than like a
Speaker 2: popularity thing, you know what I'm saying, Like like literally,
Speaker 2: you know, Carti literally mumbles, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: thought literally elocutes better than anyone. So you know, So
Speaker 2: I think that, of course is a bridge, maybe too far.
Speaker 2: But I think in terms of the there used to
Speaker 2: be a stratifying based on popularity, you know, like you know,
Speaker 2: you look at the what they do video y'all going
Speaker 2: at the images of rappers who were popular, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. When now I feel like popularity doesn't
Speaker 2: play that much of a part in what listeners are
Speaker 2: choosing these days, not as much anyway. I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot less separation these days. I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot less separation these days than there used to be.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you have hope.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that I'm seeing out there in the trenches
Speaker 2: that it ain't like it used to be. That don't
Speaker 2: necessarily mean it's better, but it ain't like it used
Speaker 2: to be. Okay, that'll help.
Speaker 3: Look, I promise that we're gonna have a professional conversation
Speaker 3: one day.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, let's have three to five unprofessional ones in between.
Speaker 3: Then that half of the audience that stayed for this conversation,
Speaker 3: Oh no, I think that's locked in. This conversation is
Speaker 3: almost close to what a therapy session is like for me.
Speaker 3: I believe that my general belief in and I hate
Speaker 3: just pitcheonholing the term hip hop because it sounds so limiting,
Speaker 3: but okay, I'll take it out of hip hop. I
Speaker 3: believe that the voice is the most important element of
Speaker 3: anyone worth their grain AsSalt.
Speaker 1: The voice is the thing that pulls you in. And
Speaker 1: you have.
Speaker 3: A voice that is like and I don't know how
Speaker 3: to explain it, but it's almost like a safe space
Speaker 3: of that of like a therapist or a psychologist.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you this. I do have a bachelor's
Speaker 2: degree in psychology now. And at one point that was
Speaker 2: gonna be my life path.
Speaker 1: Well why did't you just do the extra four years
Speaker 1: and become a doctor.
Speaker 2: Because I moved to LA and got married and had
Speaker 2: a kid and started making rap music instead, it was
Speaker 2: that's a whole that's a whole nother side story. But
Speaker 2: I hesitate to even say that because it's not something
Speaker 2: that I do on purpose. But I genuinely like talking
Speaker 2: and like listening to people, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Like I genuinely enjoy it, like I can tell yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, in.
Speaker 3: The podcast, I wound up like this is a confessional.
Speaker 3: I think I said.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 3: My producers are like, wait a minute, he never said
Speaker 3: that before, Like you know, so damn you got me.
Speaker 3: Connecting is important, man. I just think it's important, and
Speaker 3: I think it's important. I think it's also important for
Speaker 3: people to hear people connecting that I do believe, which
Speaker 3: is this new format that we're on. It's going to
Speaker 3: take people to get used to this. But you know,
Speaker 3: I did this episode with Willow Smith once. I didn't
Speaker 3: realize how catharic that felt. I've never I rarely have
Speaker 3: done like one on one episodes, and you know, kind
Speaker 3: of the impetus of the old Quest Love Supreme was
Speaker 3: sort of like my ongoing hiding and plain sight things interesting. Well,
Speaker 3: I got Fonte here and I got like, I got
Speaker 3: the cat characters. You know, it's like D'Angelo in the background,
Speaker 3: you know, voices. I always told him, like you do
Speaker 3: all these intricate back things so that you don't have
Speaker 3: to face the people, like you're somewhere back here, but
Speaker 3: all the music and all this other stuff and you
Speaker 3: know art. Yeah, and having that high, that first high
Speaker 3: of the cathartic healing that it felt to have a
Speaker 3: conversation because these are things that I I don't do
Speaker 3: that often, Like this will probably be the first two
Speaker 3: hour conversation I've had with someone this month, which is
Speaker 3: more of a.
Speaker 2: I mean probably stame here now that I think of it,
Speaker 2: I mean, who has two hours these days? So, Mike,
Speaker 2: before I let you go, I definitely want to talk
Speaker 2: about neighborhood gods unlimited. First of all, can you just
Speaker 2: talk to me about the process of your creativity, Like
Speaker 2: when you are at the beginning of a project, are
Speaker 2: you one of these artists who just sort of does
Speaker 2: things by the daily and then act throughout time. There
Speaker 2: maybe twenty five songs sitting around, and then you have
Speaker 2: to figure out which of the bats can fit this
Speaker 2: or do you have a concept in mind before you
Speaker 2: release it out? No, to me, it's it's a little
Speaker 2: bit of a hybrid situation where Typically what I'll do
Speaker 2: is I'll start making songs. I'll get like five or
Speaker 2: six songs in, and then I'll start to understand what
Speaker 2: I'm trying to say with this music, and then I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is what I'm trying to talk about. And then
Speaker 2: I sort of like finished the project, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, And I say finished, But I might only
Speaker 2: be like a third in when I sort of when
Speaker 2: the theme or the narrative or whatever I'm trying to
Speaker 2: do really emerges for me, and then I sort of
Speaker 2: take that through the rest of it, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Okay, so what is what is your theory with
Speaker 3: Neighborhood Gods Unlimited?
Speaker 1: Then like, what's what's your.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is a story, Like it's
Speaker 2: a trauma story about what trauma does in a lot
Speaker 2: of cases, and shadow shadow a per into a bunch
Speaker 2: of little pieces, right. This is a story of somebody
Speaker 2: trying to put themselves back together but going about it
Speaker 2: the wrong way. And then that's that sort of sets
Speaker 2: the table for everything that happens in this album one
Speaker 2: way or another.
Speaker 3: How do you deal with trauma in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 2: I mean, I have to give all praise due to
Speaker 2: my therapists. Man, I really do. And I went through
Speaker 2: a lot of therapists in my life, but I had
Speaker 2: to find one that was specifically trauma focused because nobody
Speaker 2: else is going to be able to get around all
Speaker 2: of my verbal bullshit that I do to make everything
Speaker 2: make sense in my mind. You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: somebody has to be trained in trauma therapy for me
Speaker 2: to like get outside of myself and actually see you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, what I'm doing, the choices that
Speaker 2: I'm making, and be able to actually like start to reintegrate.
Speaker 3: Kind of under the impression that all therapists should be
Speaker 3: prepared for trauma in other words.
Speaker 2: I think preparation, but like, there are specific avenues of
Speaker 2: therapy that are built around dealing with trauma. And it's
Speaker 2: not just like cognitive behavioral therapy or this or that.
Speaker 2: It's like, this is trauma therapy. People do like EMDR
Speaker 2: like that sort of stuff, Like these are particular trauma
Speaker 2: centered approaches to dealing with there.
Speaker 3: And so in terms of connecting, is this more of
Speaker 3: just a cathartic exercise for you?
Speaker 1: Do you? Like, what's your general fan base?
Speaker 3: Because again, as as I stated, I feel like you
Speaker 3: are rhyming from the inside of your head, right the
Speaker 3: thoughts in your head, and you know, your courses sound
Speaker 3: like affirmations, so it's almost like I hear you actively
Speaker 3: working it out in general when you are performing or
Speaker 3: just getting general feedback of it, Like what's the reaction
Speaker 3: as far as like the connection, and.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, I feel like people that enjoy it, because
Speaker 2: there's obviously it's people who aren't who don't, but the
Speaker 2: people that do, they can enjoy it on a bunch
Speaker 2: of levels or different levels. Like some people just like
Speaker 2: like you say, some people just like how my voice sounds,
Speaker 2: some people like the ways the choruses are, some people
Speaker 2: like the sort of beat choices that I make, and
Speaker 2: some people get really really deep into trying to unpack
Speaker 2: the story of the album and dig really deep into it.
Speaker 2: Now that's you know, that's what I'm always most pleased by.
Speaker 2: But I understand that that's asking a lot of a
Speaker 2: rap listener to like try to put a puzzle together.
Speaker 2: But to me, like that's like the work that most
Speaker 2: interests me from other people from like film directors, authors, whatever,
Speaker 2: like it does that like it doesn't necessarily handhold you
Speaker 2: through the entire process, you know, like it asks you
Speaker 2: to like jump in here, make an impression, make an interpretation,
Speaker 2: and see where you land.
Speaker 3: I want to know, like, are you a night person
Speaker 3: creating this? Are you you a morning person? If we
Speaker 3: weren't podcasting right now, would you be?
Speaker 2: I have another podcast that I usually tape during this time.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no, no, no, don't apologize. I mean actually
Speaker 2: we don't even we don't even podcast here. We have
Speaker 2: like a planning meeting we usually do during this time.
Speaker 2: But like, typically this part of my morning is just
Speaker 2: about every day is me sitting in this room talking
Speaker 2: on this microphone for one reason or another. And so
Speaker 2: I tend to work on my creative works after this
Speaker 2: into the afternoon, and then when I have my son,
Speaker 2: I'm going to pick him up from school and we
Speaker 2: have an evening, and when I don't have him, I
Speaker 2: might be working all night.
Speaker 1: Speaking of podcasting, can we expect anything? Well? Wait, how
Speaker 1: many do you have so far?
Speaker 2: Besides how many podcasts? Yes? Uh, okay, what had Happened
Speaker 2: was in past Due? Those are the only two active
Speaker 2: ones right now. Past Do is a podcast I do
Speaker 2: with Anna Marie Cox where we talk to creators about
Speaker 2: like their financial realities. So that's like a whole different beast.
Speaker 2: And then you know, I'm cooking something else. I'm cooking
Speaker 2: something else that you know, Uh y'all might hear about
Speaker 2: association with the with the family over here?
Speaker 1: Can we talk about it?
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm working on this podcast called uh well,
Speaker 2: the working title is called The Album that Changed My
Speaker 2: Life h where I interview people from all walks of
Speaker 2: life about the music that changed them, the music that
Speaker 2: sticks with them, their their favorite music ever. And the
Speaker 2: way that the show is constructed will have somebody involved
Speaker 2: in that project there in the conversation too, and we
Speaker 2: think it'll give it an interesting insight into the person
Speaker 2: that we're talking to and that music. And I'm really
Speaker 2: excited to start digging into that.
Speaker 3: All right there, I ask you, can you give us
Speaker 3: a what is the album that changed your life? In
Speaker 3: see but is it the album that changed your life?
Speaker 3: Or is it your favorite album?
Speaker 2: I think for different guests it'll be a different answer,
Speaker 2: like what I would go with, like if I was
Speaker 2: if I was a guest and not the host, I
Speaker 2: would to say Midnight Marauders. And you know, what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: and I would talk to anybody for midnight marauders, you know,
Speaker 2: whether it be a Q tip or by Power or
Speaker 2: you know, Ali or whoever we could talk to it.
Speaker 2: It'd be that sort of configuration. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: saying we got nothing like that in the can. I
Speaker 2: don't want people getting too excited. But that's where we
Speaker 2: aim it.
Speaker 3: Okay, we got to aim high if we're doing this,
Speaker 3: behind it one hundred percent. Well, thank you, brother, I
Speaker 3: really appreciate you. Uh, probably the most unusual episode of QLs,
Speaker 3: and you know, I will let our audience know that. Selfishly,
Speaker 3: I decided to use Mike's episode as my own therapy
Speaker 3: session because.
Speaker 2: I think we're all the better for it. It's always
Speaker 2: a pleasure to talk to you, and I feel I
Speaker 2: feel privileged to peel some of the layers back in
Speaker 2: either direction. You know what I'm saying, and actually, you know,
Speaker 2: forge a relationship, you know what I'm saying, because I
Speaker 2: think that's really important. It asked that.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, brother, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Plead go open, Mike Eagle, this is QLs and I
Speaker 3: will see you on the next go round. The Quest
Speaker 3: Love Show is hosted by me Mere Quest Love Thompson.
Speaker 3: The executive producers are Sean g Brian Calhoun, and Me
Speaker 3: Produced Dude by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Paine. Produced for
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Speaker 1: Edited by Alex Convoyman.
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