WEBVTT - One of Their Own 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:09.280 Paper Ghosts is a production of iHeartRadio previously on Paper Ghosts. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:11.360 So they come to you and you give them the 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.720 ok to consume that DNA. I first called Joanne and 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.600 we have this discussion about this is our one shot. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.480 You know, we may not get it again if we 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.560 agree to do this. She was in complete agreement and said, 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.159 we've got to do what we've got to do. In 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:31.040 the process of our analysis of the physical evidence using 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.080 more modern DNA tests, the shoelaces were of tremendous interest 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.360 to us. A couple of local FBI agents came to 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.879 my house and took a DNA swab for me. They 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.240 apparently have found mail DNA that they can use. Obviously 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:51.640 they have something that they're processing. My name isem William Phelps. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.280 I'm an investigative journalist, the author more than forty true 0:00:55.280 --> 0:01:00.960 crime books. This is season three of Paper Ghosts in 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:11.080 Plain Sight. Over the course of my investigation into Tammy 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:17.039 Ziwiki's murder, I kept coming back to one word trust. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.839 From the beginning. Everything in Tammy's case, the crime scene 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.320 on I eighty, the time of day, a highway full 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:35.200 of witnesses, just about everything pointed to one conclusion, Tammy 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:40.600 trusted her killer enough to willingly accept a ride. I 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.760 think she trusted somebody and took a ride or whatever, 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.520 and then it went off the rails from there. I 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.080 don't know if it would be a serial killer. It 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.320 could be just a random, one time event. You know, 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.480 the opportunity was there, they took her. I believe her 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.680 murderer posed as a good samaritan, pulled over under the 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.120 guy eyes of offering help, and he probably offered her 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:07.440 a ride. So many of the people interviewed for this 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.520 podcast agreed that on the surface, whoever abducted and murdered 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:17.240 Tammy did not ostensibly pose a threat, and despite what 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.400 early witness statements and the media seemed to imply, I'm 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:27.440 convinced this person was not a trucker. I believe that 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.840 she was dumped across the state to draw interest away 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.320 from where she was picked up, and I believe that 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.360 that's because that area has a connection to her killer. 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:44.840 And I really believe that the case was getting national news, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.480 it was getting a lot of attention, and I think 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.400 that the body was left so that we would find it. 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.360 It could have been dumped in a far more remote, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.440 discreete area. If you're a trucker, you know where people 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.440 are not going to be. You know there are places 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.800 that are deserted. And while it wasn't left in the 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.400 middle of the road, it was left in a place 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.880 where it was going to be found. And I think 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.240 that that was on purpose, so that we would look 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:19.440 in Missouri and stop looking in Illinois. Tammy's friends Stacy 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.440 Pappus states perfectly what I have come to believe over 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.880 the past year that Tammy's killer likely acted on an 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.440 opportunity and abducted her at random, but had certainly thought 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:38.400 things out meticulously afterwards. Like Stacy, I believe his movements 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.920 after Tammy's death were calculated and meant to distract, and 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.440 he knew a thing or two about where to dump 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:51.800 a body. Here's Tammy's best friend, Jen Nelson. I think 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:57.400 it's hard to imagine a monster who would abduct a 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:02.120 young woman, kill them and only do that once in 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.680 their life. No, I think it's a monster who was 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.520 out there and was going to hurt somebody else. There 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.440 are so many different ways that life in nineteen ninety 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.720 two were different than today that it sometimes makes it 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.560 hard for listeners to imagine how did this happen. Why 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.920 did this happen? You know, well, why didn't she do 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.839 this or that? And you have to really put yourself 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.360 back into nineteen ninety two to have a better grasp of, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.200 you know, what she was thinking, what she was feeling, 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.000 what the investigators were doing to try to investigate this case. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:43.560 Brian town is a special prosecutor for the State of Illinois. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.320 Prior to that, he was the state's attorney for LaSalle 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.479 County from two thousand and six two sixteen and the 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:56.360 assistant state's attorney in nineteen ninety two when Tammy went missing. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.440 I mean, I say this all the time that you 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.359 can't look at a nineteen ninety two case through a 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:07.080 contemporary lens or an emotional feeling of what's going on today. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.359 But subconsciously you do unless you're conscious of the fact 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.240 that you shouldn't exactly right. It's all about, you know, 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.760 the era. And I certainly wouldn't call this a cold case, 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.880 but in virtually every cold case in the United States 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.440 of America, that's the first and sometimes most difficult hurdle 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.440 for an investigation is to say, Okay, I've got to 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.240 get back to nineteen fifty six or nineteen seventy three 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.839 or whatever year we're talking about. And I've got to 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.600 think like they thought then and try to have that perspective. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:46.159 Otherwise it's going to be a difficult investigation. If she 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.279 felt any discomfort from a truck driver, she could easily 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.920 ran into those corn fields. I mean, you run into 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.719 one of those corn fields right there, you're gone. You're hiding. Yeah. 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.000 Being a Midwest guy, I can tell you that in August, 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.800 the corn is pretty high, and absolutely she could have 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.960 very easily escaped any kind of attacker. And I eighty 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.520 in that particular area of that corridor is wide open. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.839 There might be some fences, but certainly I think she 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.240 would would have been able to escape if she had 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.680 felt threatened or if someone was trying to abduct her. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:28.840 It's a thought that haunts me. Tammy was abducted from 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.520 a busy highway in Illinois in broad daylight on a 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:37.640 hot afternoon in August nineteen ninety two. A flood of 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.400 tips led law enforcement to search for a trucker a 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.240 connection with her disappearance. It was even a composite of 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:49.200 an eighteen wheeler with two stripes released. Tammy's body was 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.719 found nine days later in Missouri, just fifteen feet off 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.280 the shoulder of an exit ramp frequented by truckers, which 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:02.279 begs the question did her are capitalized on the frenzied 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:09.400 search for a trucker. Here's former IP Lieutenant Jeff Paedia. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.640 One of the things that led to the overall truck 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.040 driver theme was the fact that the betting that she 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:19.320 was wrapped in would have fit the betting in the 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.240 back of a sleeper birth. That doesn't mean it was 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.160 from a sleeper birth, and that doesn't mean that that 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.200 betting wasn't just bought at a Walmart or any other 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.760 store along the way. And so, you know, that's I think, 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.280 sort of a good lesson about jumping to conclusions. You know, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.760 you have, all right, it fits the betting that she's 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.440 wrapped in fits a sleeper birth. That doesn't mean that 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.280 it was a truck And then it, particularly as a supervisor, 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.440 you start saying something like that, or you even voice that, oh, 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.600 it must have been a truck driver. Every one of 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.240 your detectives then is focused on truck drivers. And that's 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.200 the last thing we wanted, you know, because we did 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.160 have other information out there. And then you know, you 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:01.240 want to keep all things open. I've said it all along. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.600 There's been an element of tunnel vision that, in my view, 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:10.840 hindered progress in the investigation, at least in the early days. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.000 And as the saying goes, if you don't change the 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.760 way you look at things, the things you look at 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:23.520 will not change. So if I shift my focus from 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.680 truck driver to someone Tammy could have trusted, a new 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:32.800 pool of potential suspects opens up. We always struggled with 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.400 the idea of, you know, the couple things somebody in 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:42.640 a position of authority, or somebody right at her age 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.720 that she may have known. Like, we had the idea 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.320 that we thought that there was a possibility that the 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:58.120 actual offender was another Grinnell College male student, because she 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.760 would have to have recognized, you know, like, oh, I 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.120 recognize you from campus, aren't you? You know? Or you 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.560 have somebody with a badge in a uniform that they're like, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.320 come on, i'll hop in, I'll give you a ride, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.880 and then she would feel comfortable with that. Law enforcement 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.160 followed that threat, but there was no evidence to support 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.800 a fellow Grinnell's students involvement, or any student for that matter. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.479 So then if you apply the logic that Tammy instinctively 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.520 trusted a stranger, you could draw the conclusion that this 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:39.040 person was someone in a position of authority. If you 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.400 recall from an earlier episode, Tammy's car was found locked 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.720 on the shoulder of the interstate. There was no sign 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.880 of a struggle in or around the vehicle. Her purse, 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.720 along with her I D were not in the car, 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.640 So it seems that when her abductor arrived to offer help, 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.560 Tammy felt at ease, took her bag and left willingly 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:05.960 with that person. It's a point I brought up with 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.520 Jeff Hanford, a former ISP officer who worked on Tammy's case. 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.640 You know, I mean, in my talks that I gave 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.360 after this, I would tell them I wouldn't accept any 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.200 help from anybody who is not a uniform policeman. I said, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.400 because I know how you know what they're going to 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.080 do for you. They're going to call you a tow 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.640 truck that's on a list that's been vetted. You said, 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:34.040 uniform policeman. Why only uniform policemen. People are impersonating policeman, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.600 aren't going to be in a marked car with a uniform, 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.480 and they're just not. It's too much, it's too dangerous. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.800 You know, it's too easy to get caught. Nowadays, they'll 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.280 see county deputies out there quite a bit too. I've 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.280 noticed that, so you know, I've been a uniform police 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.360 officer in a mark squad car. That's what you want, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.680 that's the ultimate, because you'll be out of there in 0:10:54.679 --> 0:11:00.319 twenty minutes. Law enforcement received countless tips from motorists about 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.760 the day Tammy went missing, and looking at an ISP 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.880 handwritten witness tipsheet and time sequence report, I didn't see 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.520 any indication of a marked or unmarked police vehicle stopping 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.840 to help. Then again, if people driving on the interstate 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.400 saw a police vehicle park next to a stalled car, 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.280 I think there would be relief, no cause for alarm, 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:33.200 and no reason to report it. In my view, it's 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.800 safe to assume there was something about the person who 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.800 pulled over that put Tammy at ease, the collar of 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:47.559 a clergyman, perhaps maybe an elderly man, or someone with 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:55.840 a badge. Tammy was tough. Tammy grew up with three brothers. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.440 Tammy wasn't naive. But if a guy shows up in 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.760 a collar, or a guy shows up with a badge, 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.120 she's going with him. Sure, I agree with you, And 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.960 that kind of dovetails in perfectly with the fact that 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.880 Tammy's family firmly believes that she never would have gotten 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.520 into a semi truck with a truck driver that you know, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.000 she didn't know and had no connection to nineteen ninety two. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.880 It was a different era, as a different time. You know, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.400 a young lady, college bound or somewhat college educated or 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.360 getting her education would have trusted police and would have, 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.640 when stranded on the side of a busy road, happily 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.600 gotten into a squad car with someone in a position 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.800 of authority. The possibility that a man in uniform was 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.240 responsible for Tammy's a Wiki's abduction and murder is a 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.040 theory I've been pursuing since I learned from someone deeply 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.920 connected to the case that, as of early twenty twenty two, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.360 the prime suspect law enforcement has been zeroing in on 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:25.720 is a former police officer Waitnia from the slum. In 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.720 the days and weeks after I learned that a former 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.079 police officer was now the prime suspect and Tammy's a 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.400 Wiki's abduction and murder, the puzzle pieces in this case 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.959 began to fall into place. My source, who was asked 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:46.240 to remain anonymous, told me this officer has been on 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.400 law enforcement's radar since the earliest days of the investigation, 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.360 and he remains at the center of the latest inquiries today. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.680 I worked for months to back up this information and 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.600 aid carefully whether to include it in the podcast. In 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.199 the end, I was told that including this detail would 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:14.640 not hinder the act of investigation. An accusation against a 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.120 member of law enforcement isn't an easy one to make 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.520 or prove. Investigators didn't want to tip off a potential 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:27.160 suspect too early, which, for reasons I now understand, is 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.760 why for many decades it was imperative that any word 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.720 about the suspect stay out of the press. And in 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.360 thinking about this suspect, it makes a little more sense 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.360 now why it felt as if someone was mucking around 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:46.400 with the case in the beginning of the investigation. It 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.800 could also be the reason why the IP dissolved the 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:54.160 task force after just six months. Was it because they 0:14:54.280 --> 0:15:00.600 thought one of their own could be responsible. What's even 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:05.000 more alarming is what I heard in early twenty twenty three, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.400 I met with another law enforcement source who confirmed the 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:15.560 cops suspect theory. That source told me this suspect had 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:21.840 taken two previously unplanned days off from work after Tammy 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:26.200 was abducted, which could account for a lot of unanswered questions, 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:31.880 most importantly why her body was found five hundred miles away. 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:39.880 It's a point I brought up with Jeff Padilla. There's 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.320 so much land out there to dump a body that 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:46.320 no one would ever find. And if I'm familiar with it, 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.320 the land, why put her on the side of the 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.320 road exactly exactly? And typically we know, you know from 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.200 my experience, a body dump is meant to create time 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.840 and distance between the offender and the victim. You know now, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.280 now that lends credence to some of those other theories. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.000 You know, why would somebody want to create time and 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.720 distance between them and Tammy? Many serial killers I have 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.280 interviewed have told me that the more distance they put 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.880 between themselves and their victims, the better the chances are 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.720 of never being connected to that victim. The fact that 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.240 Tammy was missing for nine days and then found alongside 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.200 a busy exit ramp in a neighboring state tells me 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.440 her killer was well aware of this concept. If I'm 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.480 a cop in Illinois. The last thing I'd want is 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:41.160 for one of my colleagues to find her body another state, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:49.080 another jurisdiction. So here's a theory, right, So she's abducted, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.920 the call goes out and everyone's looking for an eighteen 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.880 wheel or truck driver, right right. Nine days pass, and 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.800 she's dumped by a truck stop. Yep, because everybody thought 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.200 it was you know, everybody believed it was a truck driver. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.119 So why not make it look like it was a 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.080 truck driver, right right, and going buy the betting that 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:18.560 fits the size of a truck birth. An important point 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.879 to factor into the trucker theory is how easy it 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.040 would have been for a truck driver to dump Tammy's 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:29.879 body anywhere else but where she was found. Consider the 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:34.560 typical over the road trucker who spends days traversing the country. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.560 If he's holding onto the body for nine days, he 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.040 might as well have driven to Washington State and dumped 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.119 her there. But to travel five hundred miles and then 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.879 dump her out in the open, it defies logic, even 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.639 for a psychopath. If I'm the offender and I'm the 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.119 truck driver, and for whatever reason, she gets in the 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.080 truck with me. I've got her, I'm going to take 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:00.600 care of business. And then when she dies straight down 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:05.040 I eighty, I just pull over, wait for nobody's coming by, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.840 pull her body out, and dump her in the ditch. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.119 My second source told me that a search warrant was 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.160 conducted on the police officer's home in nineteen ninety three, 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.320 and during that search, many items of interest were found, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.120 including an old mattress in his basement and other items 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:28.400 that made it quote appear as though someone was being restrained. 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.200 The mattress, I'm told was dirty and had been recently 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.240 slept on, and had stains that appeared to resemble blood. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.480 Could the mattress be the piece of evidence investigators were 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.560 able to recently extract DNA from test and build a 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:51.240 profile off of Many of those involved in the investigation 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.679 have agreed on the theory that Tammy was restrained and 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.199 held hostage for the period of time she was missing. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.040 As I was speaking to Jeff Padilla about the case 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:07.200 in general, I slipped in a question about this. Part 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.440 of our concern was that, you know, if you're going 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:15.640 to restrain someone, you're going to have some ligature marks somewhere, 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.119 and we had a hard time with that. We didn't 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:24.040 there was no clear distinct ligature marks, which led them 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.679 to you know, particularly in the in the beginning, some 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.679 people believing that she was immediately killed. A victim who 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.719 has been restrained for days may not always end up 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.440 with ligature marks on their wrists or ankles. It all 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.320 depends on how the victim is being restrained. This all 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.840 led to that other issue. Found that Tammy's autopsy she 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.160 still had the undigested food that she had eaten right 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.880 before she broke down from whatever that was, the heartsease 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.000 or whatever. So you know that that all lent to 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.680 the fact, you know that she may have been killed 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:01.560 right away, and then maybe she was just kept because 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.480 you know, her body is kept for whatever reason. But 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.040 that doesn't make like from from a bad guy's perspective, 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.600 that doesn't make sense because you know, going back to 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.000 the whole body dump thing, you want to get rid 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.680 of that as quickly as it would be very strange 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.439 to hang on to somebody like that unless you have, 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.080 you know, you had somebody like you know that that 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.040 had kept her alive somewhere. Whether Tammy was kept alive 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.480 or killed right away is an important factor, especially for 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.920 those desperate to know what happened to her, But it's 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.320 irrelevant to the science behind catching her killer. That comes 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.680 down to the DNA testing, completing a profile, and matching 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.960 it to the suspect. My source said investigators are currently 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.879 missing one piece, but that once they have it and 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:56.000 arrest MORMP will be signed, sealed, and served. I am 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.600 fairly certain the field work on all of this has 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.720 been completed and it's just a matter of time to 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:08.199 confirm what they already know. I recently shared some of 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.600 what I had learned with Jeff Padia, who oversaw Tammy's 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:16.280 case for many years. I'll just I will only say this, 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:20.000 it's not the first I've heard of that. I have 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:26.840 no knowledge that he is the current focus of the investigation. 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:33.200 I am familiar with that line of inquiry. I guess 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.240 we could call it. Among all the theories and leads 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.160 over the past thirty years, this one seems the most credible, 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.959 and according to my sources, current law enforcement believes this 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:50.080 suspect is Tammy's killer. The news seemed to catch Jeff 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:54.160 Padia off guard. I would be interested as to who 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.879 would provide you that information With knowledge of the current investigation, 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.120 but I also don't want to know. So yeah, I mean, 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.480 I you know, I'd love to tell you, but I can't. 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.160 I just can't. And no I did it. It It would 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.679 be somebody with the same access to my friends and 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.359 colleagues and folks that I worked with, so and I 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.119 was told all their weight and to do now is 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.600 just matched the DNA to this person. That's very interesting. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.880 That's very interesting that you say that. I've reached out 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.720 to those leading the current investigation a number of times, 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:33.000 but they've declined to participate. A spokesperson for the FBI 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.840 said they were unable to provide any comments outside of 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:41.399 what has already been released, but they appreciate the podcast's 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:50.200 efforts in helping to bring attention to the case. After 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:52.440 working on this case for as long as I have, 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:57.320 I'll say this, the best lead, the most practical suspect 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.679 is the former police officer. I'm hold law enforcement is 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:06.080 currently pursuing from all the intel I have been given 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:10.440 and a few off the record conversations, and arrest could 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:14.880 be imminent, which in the real world of investigations could 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:21.119 mean months or even years. I am not holding my breath, 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:25.880 and neither should Tammy's friends and family. The last thing 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.880 I want to do is give hope where there is none. 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.440 I am simply reporting the information I have developed from 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:37.440 sources with impeccable credibility, and what I have been told 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.560 by those who have the access and knowledge to make 0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:46.879 such claims. If this is all true, the sadder reality 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:51.960 is that Tammy made the most responsible decision in her situation. 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:57.160 She went with someone reliable, someone she should have been 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:02.320 able to trust, and that fact alone makes this story 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:19.159 all the more difficult to tell, not do once it 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:22.199 with Today, I'm just saying it in there. I just 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:26.920 so can't do much else with it, and there are 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:29.200 I know there's going to be a couple of things, 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.880 a couple of articles going out about it, but I'm 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:38.399 just hanging in. I called Joanne Ziwiki last August on 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:43.120 the thirtieth anniversary of her daughter's abduction. I thought about 0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:47.160 how hard this all must be, how draining it can get. 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.080 I know what it's like from my own nephews and 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:55.359 niece who lost their mother to murder in nineteen ninety six. 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:59.640 As a family member, you think about this stuff often, 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:03.840 but on certain days of the year, it's impossible to 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:08.000 think of anything else. It's hard because it brings it 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:12.240 up against you know, everything again and at the same time, 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.520 you know you never know what might come out of that. 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.240 There's been some intings that have insolved after so many 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.840 years because of it's being left in the spotlight. So 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.199 you know, I looked forward for either way. But some 0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:28.920 days are good, some days aren't so good. If hope 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:31.080 is part of this, then I can at least offer 0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:35.639 a slight bright spot for Joanne. Twenty six years after 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:39.960 my sister in law's murder, I have been told investigators 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:43.480 now have a few suspects they know committed the crime. 0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:49.160 So despite the times when it seemed law enforcement had 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.600 someone only to then be let down or they had 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:57.520 given up, there is sometimes light at the end or 0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:02.520 justice however you look cat it. Joanne told me that 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:05.560 some people in her life encourage her to forget about 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:08.879 all of this, to move on, to go about her 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:12.679 days without stepping back in time. You have to go 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.919 through it to know what it's like, especially when you 0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:17.680 have the other kids, because you see what the other 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:19.800 kids have done them, what they're going through and everything. 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:23.760 Joanne went on to tell me how hard it has 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.119 been for her youngest son, Darren, who shared the first 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:29.240 part of the road trip with Tammy and was the 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.639 last one from the family to be with her. You know, 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:36.399 you have to kind of just go with it and 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:40.480 just take things a best you can from day to day. Now, 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:43.600 you know, we all go through subsic and you know, 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.520 as long as with each other and help each other, 0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:50.000 and you know, it works out well. I don't know. 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:53.560 I don't know right now, and anything I know now 0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:56.960 it supposedly the DNA is being destined in California by 0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.720 one of the best lamps out there. They haven't heard 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:02.920 any say yeah, so anything comes up, you know, I'll 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:07.000 let you know. The impact Tammy's a Wiki had on 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:10.840 those in her life is everlasting. It's something that struck 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:13.800 me in this case, how memories of the victim were 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:18.400 so permanent. It's rare, actually not something I hear all 0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:22.720 the time. Tammy's best friend Jen Nelson summed it up perfectly. 0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:26.439