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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, how's the podcast email inbox looking?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's pretty massive?

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Speaker 1: Massive? You mean like people are asking about mask or

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Speaker 1: are you just getting a lot of emails both?

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Speaker 2: Actually, we're getting many emails about massive topics.

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Speaker 1: Well, it must be weighing heavily in the minds of

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Speaker 1: our listeners. But do you ever worry that your inbox

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Speaker 1: is going to collapse into a black hole.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing my best to keep it from growing by

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Speaker 2: emitting email Hawking radiation to shrink it.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, how do you do that? You just like give

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Speaker 1: out Stephen Hawking vibes.

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Speaker 2: Now I try to answer as many limb as I can.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if that works. You know that

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Speaker 1: the more emails you write, the more emaos you get.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you might be right, you know. I was hoping

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Speaker 2: to get to some sort of like general relativity singularity

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Speaker 2: like inbox zero.

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Speaker 1: But zero is not a singularity, and similarity means one.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe you mean like all of the emails in

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Speaker 1: the universe crime into one message.

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Speaker 2: That would be awesome and I could answer all the

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Speaker 2: questions all at once, But.

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Speaker 1: Then what happens when you hit reply? Then it's not

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Speaker 1: a singularity anymore.

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Speaker 2: Then I Collapse.

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Speaker 1: Hi am Horehem, a cartoonist and the creator of PHP comments.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 2: at UC Irvine, and I love reading your emails. Send

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Speaker 2: me more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: Like all of a person's emails, or just the ones

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Speaker 1: related to physics.

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Speaker 2: I love reading the emails they send to me. Emails

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Speaker 2: between other people not interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's kind of nosy there. I love

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Speaker 1: reading emails.

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Speaker 2: I am not the NSA. I'm not interested in what

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Speaker 2: you wrote to your partner, or to your kids, or

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Speaker 2: really to anybody else. But when you say and me

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Speaker 2: emails with questions about the universe, I love seeing those.

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Speaker 1: But wait, if you were the NSA, would you tell us.

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Speaker 2: If I was the NSA, I would say exactly what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying now.

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Speaker 1: Which is nothing very suspicious.

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Speaker 2: Den I deny. That's the playbook.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: In which we dig into our questions about the nature

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Speaker 2: of the universe. Why is it like this, why isn't

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Speaker 2: it some other way? How does it work? What's out there? Anyway,

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Speaker 2: and can we make sense of it. We marinate in

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Speaker 2: those questions and try to think up answers. We take

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Speaker 2: you to the very forefront of human and scientific knowledge

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Speaker 2: about what we do and do not know. And we

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Speaker 2: also love hearing about your questions about the universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it is an amazing universe, but it is

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Speaker 1: kind of questionable. I feel the universe in the sense

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Speaker 1: that it's a kind of a little bit sus you know,

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Speaker 1: like it pretends to be one thing, but then when

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Speaker 1: you dig into it, it's like totally different, very questionable.

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Speaker 2: That's just your interpretation. Man, The universe has been consistent

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Speaker 2: this whole time. You just misunderstood what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Well, I see the blame you for being fooled.

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Speaker 2: I guess I blame all of humanity for its misunderstanding

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Speaker 2: of the universe. You know, it's not like the Sun

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Speaker 2: was going around the Earth for thousands of years while

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Speaker 2: we thought that was happening. The Earth was going around

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Speaker 2: the Sun the whole time. We just misunderstood.

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Speaker 1: I see. So all those flat earthers out there, it's

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Speaker 1: not their fault.

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Speaker 2: It is their fault, exactly, It's their fault. They're misunderstanding

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Speaker 2: what the universe is doing. The most amazing, incredible thing

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Speaker 2: about the universe is that it does seem to be

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Speaker 2: logically consistent, that it does make some sense, that it

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Speaker 2: can be described at all by mathematical formulas that make

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Speaker 2: sense to humanity. We don't even know why that is,

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Speaker 2: but it gives us the power to unravel some of

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Speaker 2: these mysteries through careful experimentation and thought.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of what I meant also when I

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Speaker 1: said the universe is questionable, but it's like you can

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Speaker 1: ask questions about it, you know, like you can think

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Speaker 1: about it, look at things, and formulate questions about it

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Speaker 1: that then you can and kind of confirm or denying

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Speaker 1: or answer using experiments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish we could directly just ask questions to

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Speaker 2: like an oracle of the universe and get answers that

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Speaker 2: made sense to us. Instead, we have to sort of

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Speaker 2: like corner of the universe into revealing secrets, setting up

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Speaker 2: special circumstances that will answer our question and say like, oh,

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Speaker 2: are you doing this or are you doing that. That's

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Speaker 2: basically what we call experimental science is forcing the universe

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Speaker 2: to reveal some of its secrets. But I wish it

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Speaker 2: would just come right out and tell us.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could ask chad GPT that's sort of

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Speaker 1: like an oracle. Have you tried that? Have you tried

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Speaker 1: asking it physics questions?

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Speaker 3: I have?

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Speaker 2: Actually, it's just a nonsense generator. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 2: generates words. It doesn't have any understanding behind it. There's

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Speaker 2: no like mind there, not yet yet.

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Speaker 1: Exactly do you think you'll replace physicists someday?

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Speaker 2: No, Chad GPT is not capable of generating new knowledge.

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Speaker 2: It's like a huge interpolation scheme. It just like reads

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Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff, and when you ask a question,

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Speaker 2: it's like maybe the answer is sort of between this

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Speaker 2: thing I and that other thing that I read.

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Speaker 1: I think you're describing all of the entertainment industry there.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, Yeah, exactly. It's like Diehard meets Fast

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Speaker 2: and Furious or something. Right, that's exactly what they're up

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Speaker 2: there doing.

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Speaker 1: Meets physics. Just mix physics in there, and we've got

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Speaker 1: a blockbuster.

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Speaker 2: Netflix. We are ready to pitch you the details.

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Speaker 1: But do you think maybe someday it will be able

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Speaker 1: to do science? Like you know, you could say the

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Speaker 1: same thing about humans that humans can't come up with

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Speaker 1: anything new. But yet humans are still able to.

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Speaker 2: Humans are definitely capable of coming up with new stuff.

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Speaker 2: We're not just constrained by what we have learned. I

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Speaker 2: think that our neural networks are much further advanced than

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Speaker 2: chat GPT. It is, for example, possible to imagine a

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Speaker 2: neural network which comes up with new theories and then

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Speaker 2: like runs simulations to verify at least that its theories

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Speaker 2: makes sense. So you can imagine a chat GPT based theorist,

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Speaker 2: for example, be.

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Speaker 1: A chat PhD.

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Speaker 2: Maybe.

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Speaker 1: So you think it is possible then for an AI

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Speaker 1: to do signs in the.

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Speaker 2: Future, Oh, in the future, absolutely, yes, because.

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Speaker 1: Then you just have to plug it into external sensors

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Speaker 1: and then it's taking data from the universe, and then

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Speaker 1: it could formulate its own theories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I don't think there's a theoretical limit. But

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Speaker 2: large language models are not doing that at all. They

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Speaker 2: don't have a model inside them of how the universe

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Speaker 2: works that they're using to generate hypotheses, so just generating

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Speaker 2: strings of text.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder if right now, like maybe like you know,

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Speaker 1: like the asterisk to the universe is there in all

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Speaker 1: of the literature, all the physics literature that humans have made.

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Speaker 1: We just don't see it right now. Maybe an AI could,

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Speaker 1: you know, string together some papers and come up with

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Speaker 1: the one theory.

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Speaker 2: It's certainly possible. There were lots of moments in the

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Speaker 2: history of physics when great ideas were out there in papers,

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Speaker 2: just waiting for somebody to read them and put them together.

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Speaker 2: Like Einstein's formulation of a photon is an explanation for

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Speaker 2: the photoelectric effect. All that dude did is read Plank's

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Speaker 2: papers and read papers about the photoelectric effect and put

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Speaker 2: those two things together. Chocolate plus peanut butter, and boom,

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Speaker 2: he had a Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 1: There you go. He just did a reboot, is what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, right. He was like, I have a new theory.

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Speaker 1: It's dark matter meets black holes meets electromagnetic force. Boom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what he did. He was like Vin Diesel

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Speaker 2: plus Bruce Willis equals movie gold.

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Speaker 1: But speaking about asking questions about the universe, that is

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Speaker 1: sort of how scientists explore the universe. It's by asking questions.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just scientists that ask questions. Everyone has questions,

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Speaker 1: even our.

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Speaker 2: Listeners, especially our listeners. These are folks who think deeply

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Speaker 2: about the nature of the universe and are inherently curious

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Speaker 2: about why things work the way that they do. People

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Speaker 2: who are listening to the podcast are trying to assemble

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Speaker 2: in their minds some understanding of what's going on out there,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes a bit of that like sticks out or

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Speaker 2: doesn't mesh well with another part, and so then they

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Speaker 2: write to us and they ask us about it. Can

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Speaker 2: you explain this to me? Or you said this and

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say that and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. Please clarify. And I love getting

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Speaker 2: your questions. So if you are thinking about the nature

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Speaker 2: of the universe or don't understand something that we said,

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Speaker 2: please write to us to questions at Danielandjorge dot com.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder if a lot of people don't know

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Speaker 1: this by now that you can write to that email

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Speaker 1: and actually get an answer. You're sort of like chat

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Speaker 1: gipt for physics and podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to take that as a compliment.

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Speaker 2: I do, indeed string words together to answer people's questions.

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Speaker 1: There you go, and you don't do any new research.

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Speaker 1: You're just kind of like parsing old research to give

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Speaker 1: them answers.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's true that answering these emails prevents me from

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Speaker 2: doing research because it takes my time, but I'm very

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Speaker 2: glad to do it. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you should getchat Gypt to do your job and

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Speaker 1: then you can just answer questions.

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Speaker 2: Maybe all I'm doing right now is reading chat gipt

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Speaker 2: responses to what you say.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, maybe you mean I'm talking to an

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Speaker 1: Ai right now.

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Speaker 2: Could be could be maybe I'm the NSA. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: an AI. Maybe I'm a combination.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you're the NSAI. Oh my god, that's greenlight that movie.

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Speaker 2: Maybe even Diesel is talking to an Ai and the

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Speaker 2: NSA is spying on them, and I'm relaying what the

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Speaker 2: NSA has learned.

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Speaker 1: Or you go up being I.

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Speaker 2: Knew it this whole time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I need a deeper, more

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Speaker 1: gravelly voice. But anyways, people do have questions, and Daniell

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Speaker 1: always answer them, and sometimes you pick some of these

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Speaker 1: questions to answer on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Sometimes there's a question that requires me to

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Speaker 2: do a little bit of research, or there's a question

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Speaker 2: I imagine a lot of people might be asking and would

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Speaker 2: like to hear any answer to do.

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Speaker 1: They get a price. If they stump people.

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Speaker 2: They get to hear their question on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but do they get a price like a value? Exkidding?

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Speaker 1: You get to have your question heard by tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people.

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Speaker 2: And you get the warm feeling that other people out

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Speaker 2: there who were curious about the same thing are also

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Speaker 2: hearing an answer.

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Speaker 1: So to the end the podcast, we'll be tackling listener

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Speaker 1: questions number thirty eight. This is our thirty eight episode

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Speaker 1: where we answer questions.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, and we have many more of these sucked up.

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Speaker 2: I get these emails every single day and they are

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Speaker 2: piling up, so we are trying to work through the backlog.

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Speaker 1: Well, today we have some awesome questions here about rogue planets,

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Speaker 1: about the electromagnetic force and the event horizon, and also

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Speaker 1: about black holes and hamsters. Our first one comes from

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Speaker 1: Spencer Hygien Jorge.

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Speaker 3: My name is Spencer. I hear the ramillions of rogue

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Speaker 3: planets in the Milky Way? Do we know how close

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Speaker 3: in yours?

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Speaker 1: One is?

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Speaker 3: What would happen if one got so close the song's

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Speaker 3: gravity put it into our Solar system? Even if I'm

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Speaker 3: passed by the York Cloud, would it cause problems.

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Speaker 1: Thank you all right. Awesome question from Spencer. He sounds young.

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Speaker 2: He sounds young and curious.

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Speaker 1: Which is the best, which also applies to me. I

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Speaker 1: think he.

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Speaker 2: Also sounds kind of concerned. He's a little bit worried

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Speaker 2: about what's going to happen to our solar system if

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Speaker 2: one of these rogue planets comes for a visit.

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Speaker 1: It does sound a little concerning. Even the name rogue planet.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a narrow, duel planet or a planet

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Speaker 1: that's up to no good.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of sus right, like what do you doing

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Speaker 2: over their planet? Like get in mine?

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Speaker 1: They go? She just call them suss planets.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why astronomers don't just adopt your names.

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Speaker 1: I don't either. But let's dig into this question here.

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Speaker 1: Spencer wanted to know how close is the closest rogue

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Speaker 1: planet out there and what would happen if one came

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Speaker 1: into our Solar system? Would it kind of mess things up?

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Speaker 1: Or would it change things? Would it cause a meteor shower?

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Speaker 1: What would happen? So let's dig into Daniel, what exactly

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Speaker 1: is a rogue planet?

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Speaker 2: So a rogue planet is the name we give to

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Speaker 2: a planet that's not gravitationally bound to a star. So

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Speaker 2: the Earth, for example, is orbiting the Sun, and you

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Speaker 2: can think of it as like trapped by the Sun's

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Speaker 2: gravitational field. There are other planets out there wandering the

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Speaker 2: Milky Way, just zooming around that are not trapped by

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Speaker 2: any particular star. They feel the tugs of those stars,

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Speaker 2: but they have like enough velocity that they can escape

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Speaker 2: the gravitational attraction of any particular star, so they're sort

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Speaker 2: of like on their own. You might also call them

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Speaker 2: like orphan planets.

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Speaker 1: Oh sounds sad, little bit. Can you adopt the planet?

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Speaker 2: It's possible, Yeah, absolutely. You can also give up planets

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Speaker 2: for adoption, or you can just sort of like eject them.

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Speaker 2: And in fact, we think that's where most of the

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Speaker 2: rogue planets came from. We think that probably planets are

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Speaker 2: formed in the same process as stars are formed. They

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Speaker 2: have a big cloud of gas and dust which collapses

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Speaker 2: to form a planetary system, and you have the star

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Speaker 2: at the heart, and you form planets also further out

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Speaker 2: in the disk. But in the early days of that

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Speaker 2: formation it can be a little bit chaotic. It's not

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Speaker 2: necessarily the case that gravity forms objects in a way

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Speaker 2: that's going to be stable forever. So sometimes those objects

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Speaker 2: will interact with each other, and like a big planet

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Speaker 2: might even eject little planets from the Solar system.

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Speaker 1: You mean, like every planet, even the rogue planets out there,

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Speaker 1: have to have come from a star. Is it possible

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Speaker 1: to make a planet just out of like gas and

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Speaker 1: debris out there in space without a star forming?

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Speaker 2: It is possible, And there's a big debate exactly about

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Speaker 2: what constitutes a rogue planet, because, for example, you can

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Speaker 2: imagine a clump of stuff that doesn't have enough mass

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Speaker 2: to turn into a star that ignites into fusion, something

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Speaker 2: like a brown dwarf right, or like a super jupiter,

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Speaker 2: And so as that clump gets smaller and smaller, it

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Speaker 2: could still form into an object. So there's a bunch

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Speaker 2: of stuff out there that people are wondering, like did

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Speaker 2: this come from a solar system or did it form

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Speaker 2: on its own?

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Speaker 1: But the basic answer is that a rope planet is

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Speaker 1: just a planet that's out there in space, but it's

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Speaker 1: not orbiting a star, and it could have come from

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Speaker 1: a star system or it could have maybe just formed

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Speaker 1: out there by itself exactly.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that might be surprising to a lot

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Speaker 2: of people. Is how not very rare. This is like

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Speaker 2: in our Solar System, we have good reason to believe

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Speaker 2: that there was once another big planet that got ejected.

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Speaker 2: When Jupiter and Saturn wandered into the Inner Solar System

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Speaker 2: and then turned around and went back out to their

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Speaker 2: current locations, they probably ejected a big planet out there

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Speaker 2: into the Milky Way. So we probably have lost a planet.

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Speaker 2: If you look out there into the Milky Way. There's

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Speaker 2: evidence that there might be billions or even trillions of

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Speaker 2: these things in the Milky Way. Whoa.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait, wait wait. First of all, I mean like

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Speaker 1: there might be like like the Earth might have a

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Speaker 1: twin sibling out there that's out there in space lost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We don't know if it's an rocky planet like

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Speaker 2: the Earth or another gas giant. But if you look

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Speaker 2: at the history of the Solar System, it makes the

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Speaker 2: most sense of gravitationally if there was another planet which

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Speaker 2: has now been lost.

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Speaker 1: Whoa, it's like that story where you know twins are

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Speaker 1: born and then separated at birth and what if it

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Speaker 1: comes back.

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Speaker 2: This is more like Joseph and the Technical dream Coade.

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Speaker 2: You know, there were like ten kids and one of

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Speaker 2: them got given up.

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Speaker 1: Mmm, I'm not familiar with that Broadway reference, but tyke

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Speaker 1: care word for it.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: The other amazing thing you said was that the Milky

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Speaker 1: Way maybe has trillions up to possibly trillions of rogue

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Speaker 1: planets in it. That's maybe more than regular planets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really uncertain because these things are hard to see.

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Speaker 2: You know, Planets in general are difficult to spot because

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Speaker 2: they don't glow right stars you can see in the sky.

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Speaker 2: They send you photons, you know they're there, even if

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Speaker 2: they're distant, even if they're in other gallon. Planets of

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Speaker 2: course don't glow, so you can best see them when

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Speaker 2: they're close to stars, so they reflect their light. Even

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Speaker 2: that's tricky, right, because the stars are far away and

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Speaker 2: the planets are pretty close to the stars, So you

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Speaker 2: need really fancy technology to see the planets near the stars.

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Speaker 2: But planets that are just like out there floating in

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Speaker 2: the black, it's pretty hard to spot them. So there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of uncertainty about how many there are.

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Speaker 1: But you're saying it's possible there could be more than

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Speaker 1: there are regular planets orbiting stars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They did this really cool study looking for micro lensing,

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Speaker 2: looking for examples of when a star's light is distorted

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Speaker 2: because some massive object passes in front of it. So

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Speaker 2: imagine there's some star out there in the Milky Way

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Speaker 2: and a rogue planet like interrupts the path of photons

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Speaker 2: between us and it. It can basically create an eclipse

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Speaker 2: or a little gravitational microlensing event. So people have looked

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Speaker 2: for these and seen a bunch of them, and you,

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Speaker 2: of course can't see every single rogue planet out there

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Speaker 2: using this technique. You have to get very, very lucky.

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Speaker 2: But they saw so many of them that they were

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Speaker 2: able to extrapolate the numbers of rogue planets, and that's

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Speaker 2: where this estimate comes from. But it's a really big

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Speaker 2: extrapolation with a lot of uncertainty.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the fact that they're hard to see,

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Speaker 1: it's very un brand with the name rogue planets.

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Speaker 2: And like, declare your intentions planet, What are you doing

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Speaker 2: out there sneaking around in the dark.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean if they were open and invisible, you

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't call them rogue planets.

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Speaker 2: We need to get the Galactic NSA to go spy

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Speaker 2: on these things and figure out what they're up to.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, you mean like a Galactic Physics Team or

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Speaker 1: something GPT.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to send Vin Diesel out there to do this. Well.

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Speaker 1: Spencer's question here was what would happen if maybe a

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Speaker 1: rogue planet came into our Solar system, because that can

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Speaker 1: totally happen, right, These rogue planets are just floating around

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Speaker 1: in between stars and the space between stars, and so

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Speaker 1: it's totally possible that maybe one of them, maybe a

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Speaker 1: big one, could come into our Solar system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely possible. And the number of billions, maybe

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Speaker 2: trillions is kind of scary, but remember that stars are

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Speaker 2: really far apart, so there's a lot of space out

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Speaker 2: there for planets to be floating around and just never

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Speaker 2: bother anyone. We don't know how close the closest rogue

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Speaker 2: planet is because of course they're very dark, and so

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Speaker 2: there could be one kind of close that we don't see.

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Speaker 2: The closest one that we have seen is about seven

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Speaker 2: light years away. Now, I remember the closest star is

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Speaker 2: about four light years away, So the closest rogue planet

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Speaker 2: is further than the closest star. But we saw it,

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Speaker 2: and we saw it from its infrared emission. These things

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Speaker 2: are pretty cold, so they don't glow in the visible light,

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Speaker 2: but they do glow in the infrared. So some of

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Speaker 2: our infrared space telescopes can spot these things.

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Speaker 1: Well, wait, we've actually seen one, Like what does it

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Speaker 1: look like? It looks like a star, but it's really

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Speaker 1: dim and mostly in the infrared. Is that how we

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Speaker 1: detected it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. This one is called WYSE eight five fives

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Speaker 2: zero seven one four, and it's called WYSE because it

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Speaker 2: was the Wise telescope, which is an infrared telescope, which

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Speaker 2: spotted this thing. And from its emissions you can estimate

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Speaker 2: its temperature because remember everything in the universe glows, and

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Speaker 2: it glows at a different spectrum based on its temperature.

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Speaker 2: Hotter things glow UV, Colder things glow in the infrared.

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Speaker 2: So from its emissions they can estimate that this thing

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Speaker 2: surface temperature is like two hundred and sixty kelvin, so

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Speaker 2: like kind of like our temperature, but it's like something

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Speaker 2: between five and ten times the mass of Jupiter.

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Speaker 1: Whoa, it's huge. What didn't you call that just like

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Speaker 1: a red dwarf or something, or wouldn't it be equivalent

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Speaker 1: to a red dwarf?

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Speaker 2: A red dwarf has to be bigger, because a red

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Speaker 2: dwarf actually has fusion going on in the heart of it,

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Speaker 2: it is glowing. But something that isn't big enough to

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Speaker 2: actually ignite fusion is called a brown dwarf. And in

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Speaker 2: order to be called a brown dwarf, you have to

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Speaker 2: have thirteen times the mass of Jupiter, and this thing

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Speaker 2: is like five to ten. So it's ryan on the

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Speaker 2: threshold between rogue planet and sort of a failed star.

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Speaker 1: It's a rogue dwarf maybe, which I think is a

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Speaker 1: new kind of dungeons and dragons class of character.

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Speaker 2: It's got some special spills.

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Speaker 1: Well that's interesting. You can see one. And how do

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Speaker 1: we know how big it is? I mean, it's so

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Speaker 1: far away seven point three light years, wouldn't it just

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Speaker 1: look like a pinpoint from here? How can we know

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Speaker 1: how heavy it is?

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Speaker 2: It comes from model of brown dwarfs, like we have

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Speaker 2: ideas or how these things form, how they get to

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Speaker 2: be a certain temperature. So from the temperature, basically we

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Speaker 2: infer like how massive it would have to be in

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Speaker 2: order to have that temperature. So that's also like very uncertain.

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Speaker 2: We can't measure the physical size of this thing. It

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Speaker 2: is just a pinprick but just from the spectrum, we

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Speaker 2: could say what's the most likely object to have emitted

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Speaker 2: this kind of photon, and that's where we get the

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Speaker 2: mass from.

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Speaker 1: Now, you said this is the closest one we've observed.

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Speaker 1: Do you think this is the closest rope planet to us?

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Speaker 1: Or could there be more rogue planets that are closer

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Speaker 1: to us?

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Speaker 2: Almost certainly there are more rogue planets that are closer

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Speaker 2: to us. Right, we look at a tiny spectrum of

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Speaker 2: the sky. These things are very dim. You basically have

444
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 2: to point the telescope right at one of these things

445
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 2: in order to see it. So we kind of got lucky.

446
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,679
Speaker 2: It's almost certainly true that there are other rogue planets

447
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 2: that are closer. We just haven't seen them yet. I mean,

448
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,640
Speaker 2: we haven't even seen every rock in our solar system. Right,

449
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 2: Asteroids inside our solar system escape our detection all the

450
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 2: time because they just don't reflect light at the right

451
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 2: angle for us to spot them. We're talking about stuff

452
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 2: that's much further away than inside our solar system. It's

453
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 2: definitely possible for there to be other rogue planets pretty

454
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 2: close by.

455
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into Spenser's idea for a new Netflix

456
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: movie What if a rogue planet came into our Solar System?

457
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: What what happen? Would it mess things up? Or would it

458
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 1: just go straight through?

459
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 2: It would be bad. We do not want a rogue

460
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 2: planet to go through our solar system. There's a whole

461
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 2: spectrum from like disastrously terribly vin diesel bad, all the

462
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: way up to dinosaur annihilation of the Earth kind of

463
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 2: bad or possibly maybe not very much happens. There's a

464
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 2: huge spectrum there, Like the worst case scenario is a

465
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: rogue planet comes in and smashes into the Earth, like

466
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 2: actually collides planet on planet.

467
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: I guess that's a possibility, but it seems almost impossible, right,

468
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean, the Solar System is a huge place. It's

469
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,360
Speaker 1: almost like, what are the chances that we'll run into

470
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 1: an asteroid or anything like that? Right? It'd be really

471
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: bad luck.

472
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 2: It would be really bad luck. Somebody would have to

473
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: throw a dart from a zillion miles away and hit

474
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 2: a bull's eye. Absolutely, this thing would be moving really fast,

475
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: so it's not like it'st in Earth's gravity would attract

476
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: each other. The typical velocity in the Milky ways, you know,

477
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 2: tens of kilometers per second, so it'd be zipping quite

478
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 2: a long. On the other hand, you know, Earth has

479
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: had big collisions in the past. We think that the

480
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 2: formation of the Moon came from the collision of Earth

481
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 2: and some other planet. So there have been like massive

482
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 2: planet planet collisions in the Solar System before.

483
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 1: And I guess if these things are maybe five times

484
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: bigger than Jupiter, that's that's pretty big. That makes it

485
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 1: that makes it more likely to run into it.

486
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Earth would be like a mosquito on the

487
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 2: windshield of this thing if that happened right, it might

488
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 2: not even impact that planet too much. If Earth smashed into.

489
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: It, who that would be a sad death.

490
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: That would be a sad death exactly. Remember when that

491
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 2: comet hit Jupiter, we saw those big collisions that made

492
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 2: fireballs the size of the Earth, and Jupiter just like

493
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: shrugged it off. So now you're talking about a planet

494
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 2: like five or ten times the size of Jupiter and

495
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: running into Earth. It would just like gobble us up

496
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: without even noticing. It would gobble Jupiter up without That

497
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: would be really spectacular. A huge collision between Jupiter and

498
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: something else would create an enormous light show in our

499
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: Solar system. And at first it really fascinating because we

500
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 2: learned a lot about the interior of Jupiter and this

501
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: other planet, because it would be strewn all over the

502
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: Solar System. On the other hand, it would create a

503
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: lot of debris and some of that would probably come

504
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 2: down to Earth and rain down on us, which would

505
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: be bad.

506
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say it sounds cool, but not

507
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: if you live in Jupiter.

508
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: Even if this thing hit the Sun, which is not

509
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 2: too unlikely, that would also be dangerous. I mean, the

510
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 2: thing would be tiny compared to the Sun, right, but

511
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 2: it could cause like a disruption in the Sun, maybe

512
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 2: a huge coronal mass ejection, which should like fry all

513
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: of our satellites.

514
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: All right, Maybe step us through some of the possibilities

515
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: I could. I mean you said it can come in

516
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: and hit us. It could maybe come in and hit

517
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: another planet and create a bunch of debris that then

518
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: gets to us. Are there other possibilities like could it

519
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: disrupt the meteor clouds out there, like Spencer mentioned.

520
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: Even if it doesn't smack into the Sun or smack

521
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: into any planets. Spencer was told right that it could

522
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: cause other disturbances in our Solar system, Like number one,

523
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: It could tug on planets and change their orbits, Like

524
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: it could make the Earth's orbit more elliptical so that

525
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: we have like weirder seasons, or so that we're like

526
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: not really in the habitable zone anymore. Or even if

527
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 2: it doesn't affect the Earth's orbit directly, our Sun and

528
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: our Solar system is surrounded by a huge pile of

529
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 2: snowballs out in the orc cloud that Spencer mentioned, and

530
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: sometimes things will come by and disturb one of those

531
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: and it'll fall into the Inner Solar System as a comet.

532
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: Those comets are spectacular, but they're also dangerous.

533
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 3: Right.

534
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: We are a downwind of all of those things, and

535
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: if one of them smacks into the Earth, it's like

536
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: dinosaur extinction all over again.

537
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: So overall, not a good picture to invite a rogue

538
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: planet into our system exactly.

539
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 2: Do not invite any rogue planets?

540
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: Is there a positive outcome? Like could we adopt this planet?

541
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: Like could this planet come in and just join the

542
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: party and everything's all right?

543
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: It's possible. I suppose that it comes into the outer

544
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: Solar System and doesn't really disrupt the Inner Solar System

545
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: that much, but a really big one and would have

546
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: impacts all over the Solar System. I mean Jupiter, for example,

547
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: influences every other object in the Solar System gravitationally because

548
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: of its mass. Now, a small rogue planet in the

549
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: outer Solar System might not do much damage and it

550
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: might just be kind of cool, So the benefits would

551
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: be like ooh, astronomers would be pretty excited.

552
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: Hmm interesting. All right, well, it sounds like the answer

553
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: is that the closest rogue planet that we know about

554
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: is seven point three light years away, and if one

555
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: ever came into our Solar system, it would probably not

556
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: be good.

557
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: It would be pretty bad news, but it might make

558
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: Vin Diesel have a cool adventure.

559
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: For the last time. Unfortunately, we would all have one

560
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: last adventure.

561
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: Seem the ultimate, Fast and Furious.

562
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: The last and furious. All right, let's get into some

563
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: of these other questions from listeners, but first let's take

564
00:24:45,440 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: a quick break. All right, we're answering listener questions today,

565
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: and we just answered the question from Spencer about road planets,

566
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: and so let's get into some of these other questions.

567
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: The next question comes from Mark, who's from Belgium.

568
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 4: Hi, Daniel and Jorge, this is Mark from Belgium. I

569
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 4: have a question for you guys. You told us on

570
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 4: the podcast that you can know three things of a

571
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 4: black hole, namely it's mass, its rotation, and it's electrical charge. Now,

572
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 4: on the other hand, if the electromagnetic force is transmitted

573
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 4: by photons but they are not able to escape the

574
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 4: event horizon of the black hole, how can any observer

575
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 4: ever measure the electrical charge of a black hole? Thank

576
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 4: you love the podcast awesome.

577
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: Thank you Mark for that great question, and also thank

578
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: you to Spencer. I forgot to thank him for his question.

579
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: But Mark has an interesting question here about black holes

580
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: and their charge.

581
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love this question from Mark. It gets to

582
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: the heart of a question that I get all the

583
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: time about how information can escape the event horizon and

584
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: if you're feeling a black hole's mass or charge or

585
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: you gain information from inside the event horizon.

586
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of a tricky question because, as we've

587
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: mentioned here in the podcast, a black hole is called

588
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: a hole because information and things like like cannot escape

589
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: it once it goes in. And so I guess the

590
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: general question is like, how do we measure anything about

591
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: black holes because if nothing can come out of them?

592
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you can measure things about black holes the

593
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: way you can measure things about any other object. You know,

594
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: you can measure black hole's mass by seeing the gravity

595
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: that it induces on nearby stuff. That's one way that

596
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: we detect black holes. We see like stars whizzing around them,

597
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: being pulled by their gravity, And you could, in theory,

598
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: do the same thing about its charge. You could see

599
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: the effect of a black hole on an electron, or

600
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: on a proton or any other charge particle that would

601
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: feel its field. The way you can feel a black

602
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: hole's gravitational field even if you're not inside the event horizon,

603
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: you can also feel its electric field even if you're

604
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: not inside the event horizon.

605
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: That's interesting. It makes me wonder if, like you know,

606
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: gravity is made out of particles like gravitons, for example,

607
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: could gravit escape a black hole.

608
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really the heart of Mark's question. He's imagining

609
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: that all information about forces is transmitted via particles. And

610
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 2: I think he asked his question about an electromagnetism because

611
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: we know that electromagnetism is communicated via photons. So he's wondering, like,

612
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 2: how does that work when a particle flies by a

613
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: black hole? Can the singularity. If it has electric charge,

614
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: emit a photon to pull on that particle and affect it.

615
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 2: How does that work if the photons are trapped inside

616
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: the event horizon. I think that's the core of his question.

617
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's sort of asking, how do you measure the

618
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: charge of a black hole if you can't really talk

619
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: to a black hole because the black hole can't emit photons.

620
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 2: And the short answer to the question is that the

621
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 2: event horizon doesn't prevent a field from existing. It sort

622
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 2: of freezes the field of the black hole. Like the

623
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 2: black hole gets its electric charge from something that fell

624
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: into the black hole that had electric charge, Like you

625
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: threw an electron into it. Right, Well, what happens when

626
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: you throw an electron into a black hole is it

627
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: had a field just before it fell into the black hole.

628
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: What happens when it falls past the event horizon is

629
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: that field is now frozen. Anything else that the electron

630
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: does inside the event horizon, move around, wiggle, do a

631
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 2: little dance, whatever. You don't learn anything about that. You

632
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: just see the electrons field from the moment before it

633
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: fell in. That field is frozen, and so you can

634
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: still feel that field. In fact, it has to freeze,

635
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: otherwise you would be learning something about what's going on

636
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: beyond the event horizon.

637
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: Well, I think what you're saying is that when an

638
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: electron goes into a black hole, the field doesn't disappear,

639
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: It just kind of gets frozen. But you also said

640
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: that you can feel that electric field. But to feel

641
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: that electric field, you need photons, right to feel it,

642
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: to have it impact something else, it needs to communicate

643
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: a photon, And so how did that photon escape the

644
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: event horizon.

645
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. The short answer is that

646
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: you don't need photons to feel an electric field. You

647
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: only need photons to get updates about the electric field.

648
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: In fact, that's what a photon is. I mean, step

649
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: away from a black for a moment and think about

650
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: how you make a photon. How would you generate radiation?

651
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: Take an electron, it's just floating in space. It has

652
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: an electric field. If it just sits there and keeps

653
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: its electric field, it's not shooting photons out. It just

654
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: has a static electric field. To make photons, you got

655
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: to like wiggle the electron. Wiggling the electron moves that

656
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: electric field, and so it like changes the electric field.

657
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: It makes it go up and down and up and down.

658
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: That's what a photon is. A photon is an update

659
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: to the electric field. It's a ripple in that electric field.

660
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: A static electric field. You shouldn't think of it as

661
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: like shooting photons out is just sort of like sitting

662
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: there unchanging. A photon carries information about a change in

663
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: the electric field. But once the electron falls into the

664
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: black hole, there is no change in the electric field.

665
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: It's just frozen.

666
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: So wait, so you just feel like you can fuss

667
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: me a little bit because you just said that feeling

668
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: an electric field m is when the electron field changes.

669
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: But now you're saying that the electric field gets frozen

670
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: at the edge of a black hole. So then there's

671
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: how can you feel the electric field?

672
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: If there's no changing you can feel a static electric field.

673
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: Is no photon required there. A photon is emitted when

674
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: the electric field changes. When you wiggle the electric field,

675
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: you have an update to the electric field. That's when

676
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: information is moving through the electric field. That's what a

677
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: photon is. A photon is a wiggle in the electric field,

678
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 2: and that's a real photon, right. There's also this concept

679
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: of like virtual photons for people who don't like to

680
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: think in terms of fields. There's two pictures to like

681
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: how two particles interact with each other. The field picture

682
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: is that an electron creates an electric field, and that

683
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: field can push on other charged particles. The other picture

684
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: is like, no, fields are nonsense, everything's particles. What's happening

685
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: instead is that there are virtual particles being emitted by

686
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 2: one electron that pushes on the other electron. Mathematically, they're

687
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: really equivalent. It's just like writing things down in different

688
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: terms and giving them different philosophical names. I think the

689
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: field field picture is clearest here because you can think

690
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: of it as frozen. You can think of it as

691
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: like fixed in space, as no information being moved.

692
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: Oh, I see you're saying. There's sort of two kinds

693
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 1: of photons. Or there are the real photons that are

694
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: sort of like the light that you can see, and

695
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: then there's virtual photons, which is sort of how maybe

696
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: particles interact or feel each other's electric fields exactly.

697
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: And you shouldn't think of virtual photons as like particles.

698
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: They don't follow the same rules, they aren't limited by

699
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: the same rules. They can have weird properties like negative

700
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: mass or all sorts of weird things. They're not really particles.

701
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: They're really just another way of describing interactions for people

702
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: who like to avoid thinking in terms of fields, and

703
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: you can choose fields or particles. They're philosophically different but

704
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: mathematically equivalent. And so if you don't like to think

705
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: about fields, you can think about instead as like an

706
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: infinite sum of virtual particles. But really it's the same thing,

707
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: and in this case, it's much easier to understand what's

708
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: going on if you think about it in terms of fields.

709
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: So then an electron that goes or is about to

710
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: go into a black hole, that electron that's at the

711
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: edge can't emit a real photon, like you can never

712
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: see that electron, but you can still maybe feel its

713
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: pull through these virtual photons or it's kind of it's.

714
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's the same thing with mass, right, Like

715
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: you can still feel the mass of an object when

716
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: it falls into the event horizon. It makes the black

717
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: hole more massive, it has more gravity, which you're feeling

718
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: is the gravity of that object just before it fell

719
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: into the event horizon. It's frozen there. Now the object

720
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: can do whatever it likes when it's inside the event horizon.

721
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: You'll never know what the electron inside the event horizon

722
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: may be wiggling and dancing and emitting all sorts of

723
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: real photons within the event horizon you will never see,

724
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: but the field that it had just before it fell in,

725
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 2: that's now frozen in space.

726
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: I still feel like maybe, and I think this is

727
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: what maybe Mark is wondering. Even if it is a

728
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: virtual photon that it's emitting and not a real one,

729
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: still feels like there's information coming out of the black hole,

730
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: and that information feels like it shouldn't be able to

731
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: come out of it because it's a black hole.

732
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: But the only information you're sensing is that an electron

733
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: has fallen in. Right. The field tells you an electron

734
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: has fallen in. You knew that already. That's information from

735
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: outside the event horizon. No information from within the event horizon,

736
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: like what the electron did, if it got Annihilator to destroyed,

737
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: or went to another universe or ate a banana. None

738
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: of that information is coming out past the event horizon.

739
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: The only thing you know is what you already knew

740
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: before the electron went in, that there's an electron there

741
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: and it has a field. Once it goes in boom,

742
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: that gets frozen in time. There's no more information coming out.

743
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: Oh, I see it sort of like because a black

744
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: hole freezes time at its edge, you're not getting information

745
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: from the electron inside the black hole. You're getting the

746
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: information of the electron right before it fell into the

747
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: black hole.

748
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's exactly the right way to think about it.

749
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: Whatever field it had just before it fell in, it

750
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: can't change because in order for it to change, you

751
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: would have to be getting information about what it did

752
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: after it fell through the event horizon. You can only

753
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: know about what happened just before the moment it fell

754
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: through the event horizon. That gets frozen in time.

755
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: But then I guess, if it gets frozen in time,

756
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: how does it get out. If it's frozen in time.

757
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: The electron can't get out and no more information can

758
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: get out. But the field is still there because the

759
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: black hole itself now has a charge. Right. An electromagnetism

760
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: says anything with a charge has an electric field. So

761
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: think of the black hole as just like a big

762
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: particle with a charge on it. It generates an electric field, right,

763
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: You don't wonder like, how does the electrons electric field

764
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 2: come out of the electron. That's just what an electric

765
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 2: charge is. It's something that generates an electric field through space. Now,

766
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: assign the electric charge to the black hole, the whole thing,

767
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: instead of to the electron within it. Assign it to

768
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: the event horizon instead, if you like.

769
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: Right, But like, let's say that a black hole has

770
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: an overall negative charge. Like I have a neutral black hole,

771
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: but I throw a bunch of electrons in. So now

772
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: the black hole has a negative charge, and it's over

773
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: there and over here, I have one electron. These two

774
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: things are going to repel each other. Right, my electron

775
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: is going to be repelled by this negative black hole.

776
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: How does that force get exchanged? Don't they need to

777
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 1: swap real photons in order to push against each other?

778
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: Mm hm. But those photons do not need to come

779
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: from within the event horizon, right, Those photons can come

780
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: from the outside the event horizon. If you're just imagining

781
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: the whole black hole itself has a charge. Now, then

782
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 2: it interacts the way anything with a charge does. The

783
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: way like you could replace it with just another particle

784
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: that has a negative charge instead of thinking about it

785
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 2: as a black hole.

786
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, it's sort of like the nature of

787
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: these virtual particles, they're not really being exchanged back and forth.

788
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: They're more like they're they're coming into existence around my

789
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: electron exactly.

790
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: But a black hole can emit real photons also, Like,

791
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: take a charge black hole and wiggle it. What happens

792
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: is it's electric field wiggles because you're moving the black hole,

793
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: and it generates electromagnetic radiation from the outside of the

794
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 2: event horizon. The same way if you wiggle a black hole,

795
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 2: it generates gravitational radiation because you're changing the gravitational field

796
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: in the vicinity. In the same way, anything with mass

797
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: that you wiggle generates gravitational radiation, anything with charge that

798
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: you wiggle generates electromagnetic radiation from its outside. You don't

799
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 2: have to know anything about what's going on inside past

800
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: the event horizon.

801
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: But wait, if you wiggle a black hole, you're saying

802
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: it's supposed to glow, But wouldn't that light just get

803
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: sucked back right into the black hole?

804
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, it's emitted from just outside the event horizon.

805
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: So depending on the direction, it might like orbit the

806
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: black hole or fall back in, or it might escape. Yes, absolutely,

807
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: that's cool.

808
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: All right, it sounds like it's a little bit complicated.

809
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: But to answer Mark's question, black holes that have charge,

810
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: you can still measure their charge because that's just kind

811
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: of how the universe is. I feel like that's the answer.

812
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: You just can't because Daniel says so.

813
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: Because the field is frozen, right, you can't learn about

814
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: what happens after it falls into the event horizon. You've

815
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: stuck with a story of what happened just before it

816
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: fell in.

817
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: I guess maybe the answer is more like, that's how

818
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: the universe works. Like, if something has charged, even if

819
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: it's a black hole or something else, you can feel

820
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: it from a distance. That's just the way the universe

821
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: is with something has a charge that you feel it

822
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: from a distance, and the exact mechanism, whether it's like photons,

823
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,479
Speaker 1: virtual photons, or if it's just that's how fields work.

824
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe that's kind of the answer.

825
00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. You know,

826
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: the electron that falls in, maybe it's transformed into something else,

827
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: it's not an electron anymore, but the charge persists, right,

828
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: So now just put that charge on the event horizon. Say,

829
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 2: now the event horizon has a charge and it acts

830
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: like any other charge object in the universe.

831
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: Well, thank you Mark for that question. And so let's

832
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: get into our last question of the episode, and this

833
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: one comes from a ten year old in Canada who

834
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 1: has a question about black holes and lamas. So let's

835
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: get into that, but first let's take another quick break.

836
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: All right, we are answering listener questions today and our

837
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: last question comes from Daniel. Another Daniel. Is this your

838
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: alternate universe Daniel version? Or did you clone yourself?

839
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: This is like mini media ten year old Daniel curious

840
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 2: about black holes?

841
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: WHOA did you go back in time and ask yourself

842
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: what you wanted to know in your future podcast? That

843
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: sounds like another Netflix movie idea.

844
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: By the way, that does Is Vin Diesel going to

845
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: play me in that version?

846
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: I think maybe that is the plot of a Netflix

847
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: movie starring Ryan Reynolds.

848
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: I think they'd be more likely to get Seth Rogan

849
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 2: to play me than Ryan Reynolds.

850
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 1: That would be a pretty good cat actually, and I'll

851
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: take us simu liu.

852
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: I guess see sounds good.

853
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: Well, anyways, that this last question comes from a Daniel

854
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: and he's ten years old and he's from Canada.

855
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 5: Hello Daniel, and Jorge. I'm Daniel, ten years old and

856
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 5: from Canada. I love your podcast and thank you for

857
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 5: choosing me for it. I was wondering whether it was

858
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 5: possible to make a black hole out of a single particle,

859
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 5: and if you can, we'll to be able to suck

860
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 5: in something bigger like a hamster or a lama.

861
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: Thank you. Awesome question. Daniels must have a really good

862
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: questions in Jenna.

863
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: You know, I'm worried about this Daniel's pets. Does he

864
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: have a hamster and a lama and he's like thinking

865
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: about making a black hole and what it would do

866
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 2: to them? Is he planning an experiment.

867
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: He wants to get rid of with his hamster or lama?

868
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: Or maybe he wants to get rid of the lama

869
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 1: but not the hamster, And so he's wondering, like how

870
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: big of a black hole do I need to make

871
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: so I can get rid of one but not the other.

872
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: Maybe he's tired of cleaning up after this lama and

873
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: he's got plans.

874
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe he needs more room for more hamster

875
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: that I don't know.

876
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: Well, it's a great question, absolutely.

877
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question. Daniel's question here is can

878
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: you make a black hole out of a single particle,

879
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: And if you can, what size of mammo can it

880
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: absorb exactly? And I think we need to be precise here.

881
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: He's very interested up to a few decimal points.

882
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: Maybe we should have corresponded with Daniel's parents before we

883
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 2: gave him instructions for how to destroy the family pet.

884
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: But hey, let's just go with it.

885
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: Why constrain the curiosity of youth?

886
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: iHeart legal will defend us in court.

887
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure there you go.

888
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: Well, it's a great question, and the answer is that

889
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: we don't know because we don't understand the gravity of

890
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: tiny little particles. It's a fun question because in general

891
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: relativity we say that you can make a black hole

892
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: out of basically anything, as long as you squeeze it

893
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: down to be dense enough. Like you take the Earth

894
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: and you squeeze it down to like the size of

895
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: a peanut, it could make a black hole. You don't

896
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 2: need a huge amount of masks to make a black hole.

897
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: What you need is an enormous density. So the Sun

898
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: could be a black hole, the Earth could be a

899
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: black hole. You could be a black hole if you

900
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: squeeze it down hard enough that's in general relativity, which

901
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: says that like space and matter are continuous and so

902
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: you can have infinitely small stuff and you can squeeze

903
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: things down as much as you like, and the rules

904
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 2: don't change. And as you get to really small.

905
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: Stuff, even a hamster, right, like, you can make a

906
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: black hole out of a hamster. How big would you

907
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: have to squeeze a hamster or how small would you

908
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 1: have to squeeze it to make a black hamster hole?

909
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: Man, the human in me doesn't want to answer that question,

910
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: but the physicist says that it's smaller than a millimeter.

911
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: Give in to the dark type.

912
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: Nobody out there, please squeeze your hamster down to a

913
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: millimeter size hamster reno to test my calculations.

914
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: It's probably smaller than a millimeter, right, isn't it?

915
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: All right, let's do the calculation. So if you look

916
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: up the swartziled radius, that's like basically the radius that

917
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: you need to compress an object to make it a

918
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: black hole. It's a pretty simple formula. It's two times

919
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: big G times the mass divided by the speed of

920
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: lights squared. Big G is the gravitational constant. So if

921
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 2: we plug that in and we say, like, how massive

922
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: is a hamster? It's like, what point one kilograms?

923
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I haven't haven't weighed a lot

924
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: of hamsters in my life.

925
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 2: Well, if you assume the object is point one kilograms

926
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: and you plug that all in, then the math tells

927
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: us that you need to squeeze your hamster down to

928
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: less than one point five times ten to the negative

929
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 2: twenty eight meters. So that's a really pretty tiny number.

930
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: WHOA, what is that? Is that down to the size

931
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: of like an atom maybe? Or what how much is

932
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: an engstrm oh?

933
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: An atom is much much big than ten to the

934
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: minus twenty eight meters. Humanities only ever probe down to

935
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: like ten of the minus twenty meters in our deepest

936
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: collisions in proton colliders, for example. So we're talking about

937
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: things that are much much smaller than our idea of

938
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 2: like the size of a quark.

939
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So I guess if you take a hamster

940
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: and squeeze it down that small, then it would be

941
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: a mini black hole hamster.

942
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: According to general relativity. Right, But we don't think that

943
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: general relativity is an accurate description of what happens when

944
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: things get really really small, because that's when quantum mechanics

945
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: takes over. Quantum mechanics tells us the universe is not

946
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 2: smooth and continuous, but it's discrete, that matter is broken

947
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: up into chunks, and then maybe even space is quantized.

948
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: And so in order to answer this question, we need

949
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 2: a theory of quantum gravity that tells us what happens

950
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: to gravity for particles.

951
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think maybe Daniel's general question is like, if

952
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: you can make a black hole out of anything, and

953
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: why can you make it out of one particle? Because,

954
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: as you say, all you need is a bunch of

955
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: mass concentrated in one place. And maybe he's thinking, like

956
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: a single particle out there in space by itself is

957
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: mass and it is constrained to a very small spot

958
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: because technically particles point masses, and so then doesn't mean

959
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: you have kind of like infinite density in a particle

960
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: out there in space, And wouldn't that make a black hole?

961
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question, and he's totally right, right,

962
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: If electrons really are point particles when they have mass

963
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: and no volume, then they're already singularities and they should

964
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: be black holes. And so one to answer to that

965
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 2: question is, well, quantum mechanics must prevent it from happening.

966
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 2: There's something going on there that says this theory of

967
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: black holes just doesn't work anymore when you get to

968
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: really really small masses, something else takes over.

969
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: Or could it be that electrons are black holes? They

970
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: just look like electrons from the outside to us.

971
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: That's the other answers, like, well, how would you know? Right,

972
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: Maybe electrons actually are black holes and they have been

973
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: this whole time, And there's actually a theory about that

974
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: that suggests that all electrons actually are black holes. And

975
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: this connects with Mark's question because like, how would you

976
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 2: tell how do you know what's going on inside an electron? Anyway?

977
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 2: If it was a super tiny black hole, you just

978
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: assign it's charged to its electronic event horizon and it

979
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 2: acts exactly the same way.

980
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, there is a theory out there that

981
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: says that all particles, electrons, quarks, everything that exists in

982
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: nature is its own little black hole.

983
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: Yes, there is actually a theory out there. It's kind

984
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: of fringe, but there are some theorists who are working

985
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: on that saying, like, hmm, if these things really are

986
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: point particles, maybe we don't need to explain away why

987
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: they're not black holes, because there's no consequence of them

988
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: being black holes. They just are, which would mean that like, hey,

989
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 2: your hamster is already made of black holes.

990
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: It would mean we're made out of black holes. Yeah,

991
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: it would mean like every particle in my body that

992
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: I'm made out of is a black hole. I am

993
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: like a giant black hole system.

994
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you're wondering, well, why wouldn't the electron

995
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 2: black hole then just like suck everything up. Remember, black

996
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: holes don't really just suck things up. I mean they

997
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: have gravity, just like anything else with that mass has gravity.

998
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: And we're talking about an electron. It has almost no

999
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 2: mass as a tiny tiny mass, and so its mass

1000
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: isn't enough to suck other things up. Like the gravity

1001
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: between an electron and a proton in the hydrogen atom

1002
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 2: is basically zero, especially compared to their electromagnetic interaction, and

1003
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: so it's totally possible for the proton and the electron

1004
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: to be black holes orbiting each other, making black hole

1005
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: hydrogen interesting.

1006
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just made me think, like, what if a

1007
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: black hole kind of referencing our previous question, what if

1008
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 1: a black hole has a super amount of negative charge?

1009
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: Like you throw a bunch of electrons into it, so

1010
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: it's super negatively charged, and then you take two of

1011
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: those negatively charge electrons, they would repel each other mostly right, Like,

1012
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: if you put enough electric charge, they wouldn't be attracted

1013
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: to each other and suck each other in. They would

1014
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: actually repel each other, and so from a long distance away,

1015
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: they would just look like two giant electrons.

1016
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because remember gravity is very very weak. I mean,

1017
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: in the case of black holes, it happens to be

1018
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: powerful because typical stellar black holes are super massive, so

1019
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: you can get really close to a lot of mass.

1020
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: But if you can make black holes that have low

1021
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: mass things like electrons, that doesn't mean they're very powerful.

1022
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: Their electromagnetic charge is much more powerful than their mass.

1023
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: And so the most interesting thing about these electron black holes,

1024
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 2: it's not their mass, it's their charge that dominates what

1025
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 2: they do.

1026
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: So maybe one answer to Daniel's question is can you

1027
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: make a black hole out of a single particle? The

1028
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: answer is maybe yes, Maybe all particles are black holes.

1029
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 2: Maybe you already did, Daniel without asking your parents.

1030
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: Maybe well, his hamster and Lama will already be black holes,

1031
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: So good luck. Getting rid of them.

1032
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, but to the relief of his hamster and his lama,

1033
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: if you did make an electron black hole, or if

1034
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: electrons are black holes, they would have almost no effect

1035
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: on your nearby hamster or lama, because again, their gravity

1036
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: would be so tiny. Right. Not all black holes instantaneously

1037
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: grow to become super big black holes. In fact, we

1038
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 2: think that really small black holes radiate away their mass

1039
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: really rapidly and don't last for very long. Hawking says

1040
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: that tiny black holes radiate that. We've never seen that.

1041
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 2: So that's in conflict with this theory of like electron

1042
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 2: black holes, because Hawking would say an electron black hole

1043
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't last very long. It would radiate away all of

1044
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: its energy. But we don't know what's going on for

1045
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 2: these particles. These are two very different ideas of microscopic

1046
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: black holes, neither of which is probably right. Their universe

1047
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: is probably doing something even weirder.

1048
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: Well. I think the general answer is that once you

1049
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: get down to single particles, or at least at that scale,

1050
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: then you get these quantum effects, and basically you don't

1051
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: know what happens at that level, Like it could be

1052
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: that all particles are black holes. Or it could be

1053
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: that there's something quantum about them that prevents a black hole.

1054
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: For me, some people think that there might be a

1055
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 2: minimum mass to a black hole, because a black hole

1056
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 2: smaller than that would radiate away all of its energy

1057
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: basically instantly. But we just don't know. We do not

1058
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 2: have a theory of quantum gravity, and it prevents us

1059
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: from asking really interesting and important questions that affect the

1060
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: lives of hamsters and lamas all over the world.

1061
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: Well, maybe to ask Daniel's curiosity here, what would be

1062
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: the size of a black hole that could suck in

1063
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: a hamster or a lama, or a hamster but not

1064
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: a lama, or a lama but not a hamster.

1065
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. In order to put your

1066
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: hamster in danger, you need an object with approximately the

1067
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: gravity of the Earth, so you could like feel its

1068
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: force or maybe a little bit less. But you wouldn't

1069
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: need something the mass of the Earth because you could

1070
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: feel the same equivalent strength of its gravity much much

1071
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 2: closer up. So you wouldn't need a black hole the

1072
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: mass of the Earth, but it would have to be

1073
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 2: really pretty massive. I think you're talking about something like

1074
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 2: the mass of the Empire. State Building.

1075
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: You mean to make like a tiny black hole that

1076
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: could actually, you know, if you put it close to

1077
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: your hamster, would suck your hamster in.

1078
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 2: It would need enough gravity to suck your hamster in,

1079
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,959
Speaker 2: and for that it would need to have a significant

1080
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: amount of mass. An electron would not do it. Even

1081
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: another hamster mass black hole would not do it because

1082
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 2: a hamster has very very low gravity.

1083
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: Well, Daniel, that's your answer, Then go get the Empire

1084
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: State Building and make a black hole that and then

1085
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: you can suck in your lama.

1086
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: And for the sake of iHeart legal that was jorge suggestion.

1087
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: I do not condone turning the Empire State Building into

1088
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 2: a black hole.

1089
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: But your ten year old self does want to know,

1090
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: and so which means maybe we've now altered the timeline.

1091
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: We've given your younger self disinformation and then created a

1092
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: split timeline where a ten year old do you creates

1093
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: a black hole to suck in Islama or your your lama,

1094
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: I guess Islama, and then destroyed the earth in that timeline,

1095
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: so it's not gonna affect our time, and so I

1096
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: think we're safe. Legally.

1097
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: I didn't follow any of that, but I'm gonna trust you.

1098
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: Well, that was a plot of my new Netflix movies

1099
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: starring Vin Diesel and Ryan Reynolds.

1100
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 2: Is there an alternate post credit scene where Daniel is

1101
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 2: the Lama?

1102
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: Yes, that happens too, and coincidentally, that whole plot was

1103
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: just written by Chad Gpt. So all right, Well, thank

1104
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: you young Daniel, who may or may not be Daniel's

1105
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: real younger self. And thanks to all of our listeners

1106
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: who sent us questions today.

1107
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: Thanks very much to everybody who's curiosity ePower science empowers

1108
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: this podcast and keeps us entertained. Please continue to write

1109
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: to us with your questions, your thoughts, your musings, your

1110
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: complaints about the universe two questions at Danielandhorge dot com.

1111
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: You hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See

1112
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: you next time.

1113
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1114
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 2: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1115
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1116
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.