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Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. We should

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Speaker 1: be allowed to take up space, not just allowed to

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Speaker 1: take up space. We should be just be taking up

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Speaker 1: space ourselves because we deserve it. In recent years, calls

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Speaker 1: for more diverse representation in Hollywood and show business have

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Speaker 1: grown louder and more frequent, whether it's April Rains starting

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Speaker 1: the hashtag oscar so white or writer director actor Issa

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Speaker 1: Ray using her large following to be rooting for everybody black.

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Speaker 1: There have been many public calls for action around and

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Speaker 1: criticism of the lack of visibility for non white folks

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Without the visibility, there's no change. Without visibility,

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Speaker 1: there's no access. So it's really about getting in front

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Speaker 1: of as many eyes and ears as possible to get

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Speaker 1: your story out there. And in order to tell a store,

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Speaker 1: you need to be in the room where stories are written,

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Speaker 1: specifically writers rooms. According to a twenty seventeen report on

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Speaker 1: representation in Hollywood and in television, of nearly four thousand writers,

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Speaker 1: four point eight percent of them were black, and over

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Speaker 1: half of all shows have zero black writers. Mike Goyo

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Speaker 1: is one of the very few who have made it

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Speaker 1: to the inside we're in this space now. We have

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Speaker 1: to build out these programs for ourselves, because if we

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Speaker 1: don't build them out, everything will remain the same. So

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Speaker 1: we have to kind of like take the initiative to

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Speaker 1: do that. Goya's most recent job was writing for a

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Speaker 1: little show on HBO. You might have heard to be

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Speaker 1: shout out on a previous Solvable episode. That show is

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Speaker 1: called Insecure and Today. Goyo is also the founder of

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Speaker 1: a mentorship organization called Black Boy Rights and Black Girl Rights.

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Speaker 1: They help burgeoning writers not only find their footing when

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Speaker 1: entering a largely white landscape, but also offer support and

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Speaker 1: a network as they continue to grow their careers in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: The lack of creatives of color in positions of power

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood if solvable. I met Etha early twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and like, she had a mixer at her production company

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Speaker 1: for creatives of color, and I went to that mixer,

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Speaker 1: met her for all of two minutes. But Etha, I

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Speaker 1: mean I credit her to helping me in my career.

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Speaker 1: She has always helped up and coming creatives. And I

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Speaker 1: met several people there that became my people, that became

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Speaker 1: my tribe of people. She was like, you know, look

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Speaker 1: to the people in the room to grow with. And

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what I did, you know, and that is

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Speaker 1: my group chat like that is those are my people.

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Speaker 1: We all came up at the same time, we all

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Speaker 1: got staffed around the same time, we all continue to

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Speaker 1: rise around the same time. And she really helped make

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Speaker 1: that happen. So it's about how are all these creatives

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Speaker 1: that are out here, creatives of colors that are coming

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Speaker 1: up the business, how they're helping others come up. And

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Speaker 1: I want to be able to do the same thing. Originally,

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Speaker 1: you weren't going to be a writer. So tell me

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Speaker 1: what your aspirations were or what your parents wanted you

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Speaker 1: to be originally. You know what, I love that last

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Speaker 1: minute correction there, because it really was my parents. I

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Speaker 1: was like, my aspirations, I don't think I knew what

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Speaker 1: they were until my parents told me what they were. No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, being groomed to be a doctor

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Speaker 1: by my parents, you know, from a young age. That's

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Speaker 1: the road I went down. I didn't know anything else.

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Speaker 1: But once I got to college and I started taking

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Speaker 1: you know, theater classes and screenwriting classes, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh wow, I really enjoy this. I also came across

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Speaker 1: you know, organic chemistry and was like, oh, okay, this

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Speaker 1: is this is the enemy. Definitely not getting past this

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Speaker 1: level before you made that switch. You're a child of

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Speaker 1: Haitian immigrants. I am. The earthquake in Haiti in twenty

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Speaker 1: ten it bore some influence on making the switch from

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Speaker 1: becoming a doctor to being fully focused on writing. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about that Ronald did his research.

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Speaker 1: Basically what happened was my both my parents and my

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Speaker 1: sister were in Haiti during the earthquake, so we couldn't

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Speaker 1: have reached them for three days, so we were thinking

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Speaker 1: the worst at the time. My little brother, who's he's

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Speaker 1: twelve years younger than me, he was in my care

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Speaker 1: at the time, so I'm also having to think of like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, like, okay, my parents can't locate them.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, trying to put aside thoughts about

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Speaker 1: like the idea of raising my little brother alone. So

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Speaker 1: after discovering they were okay and everything was fine, and

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Speaker 1: you know, they eventually flew back to the States. I

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Speaker 1: really had an aha moment of like, just life too

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Speaker 1: short to live for other people, and I was really

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Speaker 1: kind of living for everyone else but myself. I was

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Speaker 1: living for my parents. It just wasn't working for me.

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Speaker 1: I was really kind of like honestly depressed. That's when

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Speaker 1: I decided to change my major in the theater with

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Speaker 1: a concentration in creative writing. And then I also came

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Speaker 1: out in the same year to my parents too, So

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Speaker 1: that was that was what was that like for them?

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Speaker 1: I mean it was man when I when I changed

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Speaker 1: career path, my mother cried, was like, I can't believe

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Speaker 1: you're doing this. Oh you were, you know, on such

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Speaker 1: a good path. Now you're writing. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: what that is, what does that even mean? And then

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Speaker 1: my dad was like, it's gonna be all right, just

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Speaker 1: let him fly, like, let him do what he wants

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Speaker 1: to do. He was very supportive in that way. And

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Speaker 1: then I was, oh, fantastic. And then later that year

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Speaker 1: when I came out, like my dad was crying and

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Speaker 1: my mom was like, let him do what he wants,

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Speaker 1: like you said, let him be free. I love that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that was really a pivotal year for me,

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Speaker 1: not just in my career what would become my career,

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Speaker 1: but in my life. You know, your story really resonates

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Speaker 1: with me because I was in it for most of

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Speaker 1: my adult life. I'm still fairly due to this job,

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Speaker 1: so I appreciate that. So making that adjustment was something

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Speaker 1: that it was easy to wrap my head around because

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Speaker 1: it was my dream job. But there were some difficulties

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Speaker 1: in terms of switching industries and learning the industry and

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Speaker 1: learning the people around me. My Granted, I don't think

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Speaker 1: you did a career switch, but even starting in this

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Speaker 1: career in this world, tell me what that world was like,

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Speaker 1: especially for you a black man, Like, what was that like?

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Speaker 1: Interacting with all these folks and even though it is

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Speaker 1: your dream job, what was that like? After graduating college,

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Speaker 1: I knew that I wanted to pursue television. I knew

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Speaker 1: I wanted to move to LA So I was making

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Speaker 1: plans to move to LA. While making those plans, I

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Speaker 1: was working as a production assistant in Boston. You know.

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Speaker 1: I worked on the Equalizer as a production assistant with

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Speaker 1: Denzel Washington. I worked on American Idol. I worked on

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Speaker 1: a few other reality TV shows. But when I was

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Speaker 1: working on American Idol, who was in Boston for their

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Speaker 1: Boston auditions, I happened to mention a production like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm moving to LA in a month, and they're like, okay, great.

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Speaker 1: Once he moved to La, come work with us, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, say no. More So, once I moved,

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Speaker 1: I had a job which was which was great. But

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Speaker 1: to your question, like when I got here, I felt like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the opportunity I was asking the universe for.

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Speaker 1: So I need to kind of really focus and make

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Speaker 1: some connections, start networking. Part of the my success has

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Speaker 1: been building my network. And what I came to realize

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Speaker 1: very quickly that my network will dictate my net worth

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Speaker 1: in this business, and it's really about who you know

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Speaker 1: as well as your talent. Some have been able to

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Speaker 1: succeed with you know, without both, but as if you're

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Speaker 1: a person of color, you will most likely you will

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Speaker 1: need both. It's far and being a person of color

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Speaker 1: in this industry trying to come up and being able

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Speaker 1: to create some type of like sustainable pathway program for

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Speaker 1: other writers or some type of like access that stays

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Speaker 1: open for us is really important. So much of Hollywood

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Speaker 1: is about who you know across all areas of work.

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Speaker 1: Researchers have found that people in positions of power demonstrate

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Speaker 1: unconscious bias that's when we hire people who look like

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Speaker 1: us or have a similar background or path to the

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Speaker 1: one we followed. Some people have a conscious bias too,

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Speaker 1: of course, which leads to the same result. Doors shut

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Speaker 1: to people of color in TV and film. The many

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Speaker 1: white writers making it bring on other white writers, who

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Speaker 1: in turn bring on more white writers. Only seven of

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Speaker 1: every twenty writers is currently a person of color. Discrimination

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Speaker 1: is perpetuated Mike with your organization, black boy writes, black

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Speaker 1: girl writes, Are you seeking to create work and opportunities

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Speaker 1: to overlooked folks in writing or is it more that

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Speaker 1: you're trying to teach them about writing? Or is it both?

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Speaker 1: It's really both. Once you're in the program, some of

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Speaker 1: the features include writer round tables with other writers in

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Speaker 1: the business who are established, and we try to invite

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Speaker 1: as many people that feel like relatable to our mentees

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Speaker 1: imparting you know, tips about writing and also just like

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Speaker 1: writer's room etiquette and things like that, like things you

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Speaker 1: would normally you would not know unless you were in

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Speaker 1: a writer's room. But it is also about providing access.

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Speaker 1: You know, these conversations that we're having with these you know,

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Speaker 1: established writers or like intimate conversations where they get to

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Speaker 1: be free to ask any type of question they'd like

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Speaker 1: to ask. They have some face time with the writers.

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Speaker 1: They get the writers contact information so that they can

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Speaker 1: contact them themselves and build like a personal their own,

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Speaker 1: like genuine personal relationship with that person. I try to

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Speaker 1: provide them with access to securing general meetings with executives.

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Speaker 1: It's really about creating a sense of visibility for them

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Speaker 1: so that you can get the access that you need. Also,

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Speaker 1: once the program is over, we have an alumni system

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Speaker 1: where we're not going to let you just go off

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Speaker 1: on your own and expect you to fly. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like it's like it's that thing of like when a

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Speaker 1: mother bird like watches there baby fly off the branch.

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Speaker 1: They at least look down and make sure that they

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Speaker 1: made it, like that they're okay. So as soon as

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Speaker 1: like the program's over and it's really just a year program,

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Speaker 1: the intention is to keep up with all our alumni

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Speaker 1: and make sure that they are okay, make sure they've

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Speaker 1: made it, make sure that they still have what they need.

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Speaker 1: So Mike, like you you give them a lot, Like

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Speaker 1: that's a lot for a person to get, like, especially

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Speaker 1: starting off as a writer. I imagine that this has

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Speaker 1: to be connected to something that you felt was lacking

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Speaker 1: as you were coming up in the program, Like man,

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Speaker 1: I wish it I had would have had this. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if you have any stories or anything that are

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Speaker 1: attached to what you did not have a kind of

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Speaker 1: what you had to fight for an advocate for yourself

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Speaker 1: growing up as a young black writer in the game.

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Speaker 1: You know what the funny thing is, Ronald, It's it's

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Speaker 1: because of what I had that I'm doing what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It's of people that

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Speaker 1: came up before me, who gave me a helping hand,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean, and who like and

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Speaker 1: pulled me up. Yes. I credit my career to hard

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Speaker 1: work and to ambition, right, but I also credited to

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Speaker 1: people who have been mentors of mine and who have

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Speaker 1: kind of like helped me in my career. All I

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Speaker 1: want to do is be able to really pay that back,

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Speaker 1: pay that forward. I just went ahead with that idea

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Speaker 1: and started pursuing it. Mike Goyle was hardworking and fortunate

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Speaker 1: he was able to land a job when he first

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Speaker 1: moved to la He was able to mingle with successful

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Speaker 1: black writers, and he could afford to take the time

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Speaker 1: to show up in the places where they were and

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Speaker 1: offered to take them out for coffee or drinks. Persistence networking,

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Speaker 1: playing the game. It all takes time and effort. Mike,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about the necessity of a POC

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Speaker 1: community having to build our own networks in order to

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Speaker 1: even stand a chance. That isn't necessarily the case for

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Speaker 1: white folks, or it might be a little more naturally

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Speaker 1: built in for white folks than it is for black

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Speaker 1: folks who have to build our own network. I think

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Speaker 1: you hit it right on the head and the last

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Speaker 1: sentence there, it's like it's just they have been able

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Speaker 1: to build it out in a way that we have

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Speaker 1: not had the opportunity to, or when we have had

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to, you know, Telsa, it getting burned down.

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Speaker 1: So um, I think that right, I'm just saying, we're

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Speaker 1: getting real. I'm just saying, but yeah, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's not as natural for us, and that's why

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Speaker 1: we have to continue to work at it. But it's

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Speaker 1: this thing of like we're in this space now where

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Speaker 1: we have to build out these programs for ourselves because

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Speaker 1: if we don't build them out, everything will remain the same.

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Speaker 1: So we have to kind of like take the initiative

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Speaker 1: to do that. Do we have allies who want to

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Speaker 1: help us, Absolutely, but we still have to put ourselves

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Speaker 1: in that space of building that out for ourselves. So

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Speaker 1: I think some of the stats that come to Hollywood

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Speaker 1: and writing and show business generally skew largely white. I mean,

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Speaker 1: a couple years ago we had that controversy of hashtag

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Speaker 1: oscars so white, and in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, seventy

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Speaker 1: percent of showrunners were men, eighty two percent were white.

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Speaker 1: How does your program helping to address those types of

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Speaker 1: issues or how do you how do you hope to

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Speaker 1: address those types of issues in the future. It's really

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Speaker 1: about like leveling the playing field and when it comes

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Speaker 1: to access, and that's what I'm trying to provide with

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Speaker 1: the program, is creating the access so that there can

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Speaker 1: be more showrunners of color. There can be more you know,

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Speaker 1: high level writers the writers room who are people of color.

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Speaker 1: Mike like, I could totally see your program continuing to

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Speaker 1: expand and fill these spaces in a major way. But

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Speaker 1: one thing I'm thinking right now is that you also

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Speaker 1: have an individual career. You're working on your own writing

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Speaker 1: and growth and professional ambitions. So even though your mentorship

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Speaker 1: program is clearly rewarding and important, the burden of this

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Speaker 1: kind of work often falls on us as marginalized people

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Speaker 1: to simultaneously lift each other up while lifting ourselves. And

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of lifting, you know. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: how a couple of weeks ago, we talked about this

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Speaker 1: with doctor Joy Harden Bradford. She runs therapy for Black girls,

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Speaker 1: and she talked about how part of showing up for

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Speaker 1: her community was also saying no from time to time

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Speaker 1: and making time for herself. So how do you strike

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Speaker 1: the balance between helping others and helping yourself? Ronald, You

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Speaker 1: are asking all the right questions. You're asking questions that

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Speaker 1: I think about on a daily basis, because right now,

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Speaker 1: I mean, in terms of the program, like a one

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Speaker 1: man band, I have a producing partner. Her name is

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Speaker 1: Ashley Aaronson. She's fantastic and who's really helped me build

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Speaker 1: out the program. She's helped me build the site like

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Speaker 1: she has been fantastic. But the thing is, for the

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Speaker 1: most part, it's just been myself putting this program together.

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Speaker 1: And I had some time in between jobs to really

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Speaker 1: be there for my mentees. And I continue to be

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Speaker 1: there for my mentees, but am currently in a writer's

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Speaker 1: room now in the process of contract negotiations over something

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Speaker 1: that I'm extremely excited about and we'll share later down

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Speaker 1: the line. And I'm like pitching TV shows and features.

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Speaker 1: It's just there isn't a lot of time, so I

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Speaker 1: have had to be very conscious of how I allocate

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Speaker 1: my time so that I'm making time for what matters

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Speaker 1: to me. Let's look five to ten years down the line,

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Speaker 1: what does success look like for you, Mike personally, and

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Speaker 1: what does it look like for the program and for

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Speaker 1: black folks in writing in show business. If everything is

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Speaker 1: successful as you as you hope for it to be

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Speaker 1: more content about people of color who are experiencing, you know,

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Speaker 1: different things. We're not monolithic, you know, we live varied experiences.

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Speaker 1: Several shows can exist about you know, a group of

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Speaker 1: friends and there not be one girlfriends or one insecure

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Speaker 1: or you know, or one living single. You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. Equality in the sense of like the higher

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Speaker 1: of what it looks like, what those numbers look like

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned earlier, like having more women of color

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Speaker 1: running shows, having more LGPTQ, individuals of color running shows.

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Speaker 1: Those things are important. So it looks like true equality,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like a television slate that's not monolithic

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Speaker 1: or not only catering to one type of way of

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Speaker 1: being black. And what about you personally? Of course, I

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Speaker 1: want the program to continue to flourish. I want to

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Speaker 1: be able to expand the program to like colleges and

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Speaker 1: high schools, create a scholarship fund for young aspiring writers

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Speaker 1: to have access to tools that they need in order

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Speaker 1: to get to where they want to be. That can

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Speaker 1: take someone who's ten and has a dream and you know,

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Speaker 1: take them all the way into the writer's room once

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Speaker 1: they're ready. So I want to point out that I

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Speaker 1: asked about your personal goals and where you are at

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Speaker 1: five to ten years, if you still talked about your program,

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Speaker 1: which is that's not that's crazy. It's almost like you're right, Umm,

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Speaker 1: I'm truly always thinking about it myself, myself creating shows.

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Speaker 1: Of course. I mean, I want, you know, to have

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Speaker 1: my own shows on air. I want to be able

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Speaker 1: to support other writers who have fantastic ideas who just

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Speaker 1: can't get a shot, you know, build out war programs

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Speaker 1: to help other writers get to where they'd like to be, Like,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I'm not bad at it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's it. You know. I just got here. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: just got here, and I'm grateful to be here. So

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Speaker 1: what can our listeners do to help I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: this and I'm like, man, I want to really support

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Speaker 1: I care about black representation in writer's room. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: somebody who loved Insecure and like, man, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: see more things like that on television. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: what can listeners do to help support this? Listen, there's

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Speaker 1: like over four hundred shows on air, So when we're

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Speaker 1: putting our shows on air and we're actually getting a shot,

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Speaker 1: watch that would that would really help to watch these

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Speaker 1: shows and even beyond watching the show, look them up

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Speaker 1: see ways in which you can like help support their careers,

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Speaker 1: specifically with the program. You know, if anyone out there

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Speaker 1: would like to reach out who are interested in investing

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Speaker 1: and you know, like the idea of this program existing

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Speaker 1: and living on for many years, please feel free to

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Speaker 1: reach out to me and contact me. Because without visibility,

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Speaker 1: there's no change. Without visibility, there's no access. So it's

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Speaker 1: really about getting in front of as many eyes and

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Speaker 1: ears as possible to get your story out there, to

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Speaker 1: be able to build that support. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: reading resources to help become a sharper writer or anything

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Speaker 1: to become a stronger networker, anything that helped you persevere

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Speaker 1: in your journey. Oh my god, Podcasts, the Writer's Room,

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Speaker 1: the Screenwriter's Room. I don't know if you know Hilliard

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Speaker 1: guests like he Hilliard is fantastic. He has a fantastic podcast.

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Speaker 1: The WGA has a great podcast. One of the first

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Speaker 1: screenwriting books I ever got with a screenwriters Bible. I

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Speaker 1: suggest every writer have that, though. I really listened to

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Speaker 1: like podcasts, podcast word my thing. Mike, this has been

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Speaker 1: an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for taking the

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Speaker 1: time to be with us, Ronald, Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. This is this was great. Thank you

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Speaker 1: guys for reaching out. Mike Oyo is a television writer

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Speaker 1: and founder of Black Boy Rights Black Girl Rights mentorship program.

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Speaker 1: Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, research by David Jah,

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Speaker 1: booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias,

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Speaker 1: and our executive producer is Mio Lobel. I'm Ronald Young Junior,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening,