Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
Speaker 1: I and Mike Spofford joined alongside my trusted colleague West Hodko.
Speaker 1: It's we are coming to you one final time from
Speaker 1: the NFL scouting Combine in downtown Indianapolis before we hit
Speaker 1: the road to come back to our abodes in Green Bay.
Speaker 1: And West We've been here. It's been a long week.
Speaker 1: It's been a busy week. It's been a fun week.
Speaker 1: I think if there's one major takeaway from what we've
Speaker 1: seen throughout this entire process and how things are shaping up,
Speaker 1: it's that when you look at the top of this
Speaker 1: draft and the Packers are sitting at the number twelve pick,
Speaker 1: you have players on the defensive front, a group that
Speaker 1: Brian Guducunt calls the deep best he's ever seen in
Speaker 1: a long time in the drafts, that he has worked,
Speaker 1: an offensive line group that is stronger than maybe was
Speaker 1: perceived earlier on. You throw in the fact that a
Speaker 1: tight end from Iowa t J. Hockenson being talked about
Speaker 1: as a possible top ten pick, and then all the
Speaker 1: mystery surrounding who's going to draft Kyler Murray, the quarterback
Speaker 1: out of Oklahoma. It really looks like with the Packers
Speaker 1: sitting at twelve, and I'm not telling Brian Goudaquin's what
Speaker 1: to do here, but with the Packers sitting at twelve,
Speaker 1: there's potentially a really, really good player who could be
Speaker 1: there for the taking for Green Bay at number twelve,
Speaker 1: they don't necessarily have to move around to find a
Speaker 1: potential impact star here. Yeah, Mike, you mentioned it's been
Speaker 1: a long week, and it certainly has been that. But
Speaker 1: the one thing that stands out to me as we
Speaker 1: sit here now is is this thing draws to a
Speaker 1: close to the fact that in all the years I've
Speaker 1: covered this now, which I believe is my six or
Speaker 1: seven combine, I don't know if I can recall a
Speaker 1: year in which so many guys have sort of distinguished themselves,
Speaker 1: you know that their forty times, with their bench press,
Speaker 1: with their vertical there just seems like there's been quite
Speaker 1: a few that have put their names out there. You
Speaker 1: mentioned Hockinson from Iowa, Well then you had no offense
Speaker 1: come right back and was like, hey, hold my draft projection,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of outshine some some people here as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he beat Hockinson by two tenths of a second in
Speaker 1: the forty yard dash, and Hockinson's four seven one for
Speaker 1: a tight end was nothing to sneeze at, not at all,
Speaker 1: especially a guy that is projected a sort of that
Speaker 1: all around in line tight end. Then he had dk
Speaker 1: Metcalf come through with the four three three forty for
Speaker 1: a guy that's over two pounds was the fastest forty
Speaker 1: time since two thousand three. So the thing I'm the
Speaker 1: point I'm trying to make with all this is that
Speaker 1: Brian Goodkin's last year, I remember him saying when there
Speaker 1: was all these quarterbacks, they were talking about his potential
Speaker 1: top ten picks and there ended up being four of them.
Speaker 1: How that bode well for the Packers and where they
Speaker 1: wanted to pick. And then what happens on draft night.
Speaker 1: They get to number fourteen, There's a number of different
Speaker 1: guys on the board at that spot, and he decides
Speaker 1: to trade back and get an extra first round pick
Speaker 1: while only moving back four spots to probably get the
Speaker 1: same guy they were looking at in Gire Alexander's When
Speaker 1: you look at number twelve this year, there are a
Speaker 1: number of blue shippers, as you said, and it is
Speaker 1: destined to be a fact that at least a few
Speaker 1: of them are going to be there. The question is
Speaker 1: going to be, though, where do you take them? Because
Speaker 1: there are so many different guys at so many different
Speaker 1: positions that could help the Packers. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: that is the question. When you look at the guys
Speaker 1: at the top of this draft on the defensive side
Speaker 1: of the ball, you have your Nick Bosa, your Josh Allen,
Speaker 1: your Quinn and Williams. Those guys aren't going to be
Speaker 1: there at number twelve, but those being your in your
Speaker 1: top five, top six, six, top seven picks, however that
Speaker 1: shakes out, and then you throw in a quarterback or
Speaker 1: maybe two that get taken up there. It's just gonna
Speaker 1: keep pushing players down there. Now. The other thing that
Speaker 1: works into the Packers advantages that when you look at
Speaker 1: where they are at edge rusher, the need that there
Speaker 1: is on the offensive line, and the need that there
Speaker 1: is at tight end, the it doesn't matter necessarily what
Speaker 1: position that player is going to play, because I think
Speaker 1: the Packers are going to have their pick of some
Speaker 1: real top quality guys at a key position of need
Speaker 1: as they head into Yeah. Absolutely, and then if there's
Speaker 1: enough of them, maybe you move back again, who knows
Speaker 1: get to two thousand, twenty draft pick. But the biggest
Speaker 1: thing that that was my takeaway from all this so far,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of I did a story looking
Speaker 1: at some of those pass rushers, the guys that could
Speaker 1: be available so many years, might cael these last few years.
Speaker 1: It seems like I remember when Ryan Ramcheck you remember
Speaker 1: him from Wisconsin went at the podium offensive and they
Speaker 1: were talking and I think you know at Lanta ended
Speaker 1: up taking them, but they were that that year. They're like, hey,
Speaker 1: this might be the only New Orleans part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they ended up taking them, and people were saying, hey,
Speaker 1: this might be the only offensive lineman worth taking in
Speaker 1: the first round that year. And how many years, like
Speaker 1: last year we were we had Marcus Davenport here and
Speaker 1: people were saying, now this this might be the guy
Speaker 1: that fits for the packers, but maybe it's a stretch
Speaker 1: this year it really isn't the k And and and you
Speaker 1: look at some of these guys now in their forty times,
Speaker 1: Brian Burns, who a lot of the people that I
Speaker 1: was looking at, we're saying, hey, this guy could end
Speaker 1: up being an end of the first round type guy.
Speaker 1: Maybe into the second Well, he runs a four or
Speaker 1: five six mantes sweat before we came down here runs
Speaker 1: a four four two. These are guys that two or
Speaker 1: fifty five, two and sixty pounds running ridiculous times in
Speaker 1: the forty. It's not everything, but as Larry was mccarroen
Speaker 1: was talking about, if you're able to disengage the ability
Speaker 1: to close to the quarterback and utilize your advantages there,
Speaker 1: it's going to give the Packers a lot to consider,
Speaker 1: specifically a pass rusher. And then, as you mentioned with
Speaker 1: some of those tight ends as well, it's been a
Speaker 1: long time since the Packers took a tight end in
Speaker 1: the first round, but there's a couple at either twelve
Speaker 1: or thirty them might make them think about it. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: and those two guys, we've mentioned them already, Iowa's t J.
Speaker 1: Hockenson and Noah Fanse, two tight ends from the same school. Now,
Speaker 1: it's pretty rare that two tight ends would go in
Speaker 1: the first round of the draft. There are actually three
Speaker 1: that were drafted in the first round just a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. But that's the only time you've had
Speaker 1: multiple first round tight ends in uh, you know, really
Speaker 1: this century. I believe it's never happened before that you've
Speaker 1: had two first round tight ends from the same school,
Speaker 1: but it certainly looks like that could be the case
Speaker 1: in this draft with Hockinson and Fan. Now, I don't
Speaker 1: want to oversimplify things too much, but everything you've read
Speaker 1: is that Hockinson is the immediate plug and play, instant
Speaker 1: starter in the NFL, and that's why he's being talked
Speaker 1: about as a potential top ten pick in this draft.
Speaker 1: Because of the athleticism and as we mentioned the forty
Speaker 1: time a four five one from Noah Fan as opposed
Speaker 1: to the four seven one from Hockinson, the long term
Speaker 1: upside so to speak of Fan is also is very
Speaker 1: attractive as well. Not what I wonder about is with
Speaker 1: the four five one from strictly the Packers situation, if
Speaker 1: you were hoping that Noah Fan maybe was going to
Speaker 1: fall all the way to number thirty at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the first round, that might not happen anymore, not
Speaker 1: not with not with the testing numbers that he's put
Speaker 1: up here in India. Yea. And you look at that
Speaker 1: list of guys that have run in the four fives
Speaker 1: for tight ends over the years, those guys didn't last
Speaker 1: very long. Now, they weren't all just immediate, you know,
Speaker 1: go to a team and dominate type players. I think
Speaker 1: even a guy like Jared Cook, who was one of them,
Speaker 1: took time for him to get immersed in the NFL game.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things I think that makes
Speaker 1: Hockinson such an intriguing prospect because it is really difficult.
Speaker 1: He saw with Evan Ingram, but for the most part,
Speaker 1: it's tough for a rookie to come in the NFL
Speaker 1: and just dominate and just be a guy that's gonna
Speaker 1: have six hundred yards and ten touchdown catches. It just
Speaker 1: doesn't happen at that position and be the reliable blocker
Speaker 1: that a coach wants in the running game, which is
Speaker 1: which is what they're talking about with these two Iowa prospects,
Speaker 1: and and Alabama's IRV Smith is probably the three of
Speaker 1: those top three types. And his dad played in the
Speaker 1: league at that position, was a former first round pick
Speaker 1: out a Notre Dame. And he was talking about that
Speaker 1: as well, and he mentioned a funny little story about
Speaker 1: how some of those same scouts that scouted his dad
Speaker 1: were talking to him now in Indianapolis twenties six years later.
Speaker 1: So those those two positions to me are the most intriguing. Certainly,
Speaker 1: there's others that the packers could consider. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: do you look at baby adding another receiver? You know,
Speaker 1: do you look at potentially finding another offensive lineman that
Speaker 1: could help you this draft, if for nothing no other reason,
Speaker 1: I think is really going to be good for depth
Speaker 1: in being able to maximize the value of those pis. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The interesting thing too, we in some of our other videos,
Speaker 1: Larry McCarron talked about that Iowa pipeline to to Green
Speaker 1: Bay and when you look at it going all the
Speaker 1: way back to Aaron Campman in the early two thousand's
Speaker 1: and then you have you've drafted Brian Blaga, Mike Daniels,
Speaker 1: Micah Hide, Josh Jackson last year. Um, there's never been
Speaker 1: a character issue any of those kinds of things. And
Speaker 1: when you look at these two tight ends out of Iowa,
Speaker 1: they pride themselves right now on on the fact that
Speaker 1: they are the dual tight end that NFL teams are
Speaker 1: looking for. They can they can split out wide, run
Speaker 1: the routes and catch passes. They can also line up
Speaker 1: in line and blow can be a big part of
Speaker 1: the running game, and that's why they're being talked about
Speaker 1: as highly as they are. Yeah, and the Packers have
Speaker 1: kind of played around with those positions the last few years.
Speaker 1: Certainly look at Jared Cook. I think in terms of
Speaker 1: what Mike McCarthy's offense was, he's the one that has
Speaker 1: fit the best, maybe even arguably better than when jaw
Speaker 1: Michael Finley was in his prime, just based on what
Speaker 1: he could do on the perimeter but also come inside
Speaker 1: and make an impact as an inline guy. Uh Mark,
Speaker 1: you know, Martellis Bennett really didn't work as an inline guy.
Speaker 1: They're just you know, there was a drops issue there
Speaker 1: and the blocking was good, but he just didn't seem
Speaker 1: like he fit the offense. And then last year, I
Speaker 1: think Jimmy Graham showed some really significant signs of being
Speaker 1: a playmaker in this offense, but between the knee injury
Speaker 1: he suffered in training camp and then also breaking the
Speaker 1: thumb in Seattle held him back. Now that the thing
Speaker 1: that I like about this with Brian Goodkusen and Matt
Speaker 1: Lafore both sounding like they're planning to have Jimmy Graham
Speaker 1: in this offense is if you do go with the
Speaker 1: tight end, whether or not it is the first round
Speaker 1: or not. If you do finally draft one, you have
Speaker 1: time to be able to mold that individual well, to
Speaker 1: have them work with Jimmy Graham. And I keep going
Speaker 1: back to what Robert Tonyan said last year about how
Speaker 1: valuable it was to be in the room with him
Speaker 1: and how much that helped him. I mean, you take
Speaker 1: a legit tight end prospect as a rookie and allowed
Speaker 1: them to work in a room with Jimmy Graham, I
Speaker 1: think only good things are going to happen. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: as you mentioned before too, the Packers not being talked
Speaker 1: about as much as in the wide receiver of the
Speaker 1: running back market, but certainly going into this draft with
Speaker 1: ten picks, six picks in the first four rounds, the
Speaker 1: opportunity is going to be there to to find more
Speaker 1: of those, uh, those skill position players that that maybe
Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur has his eye on in terms of certain
Speaker 1: skill sets, certain things that he wants to add to
Speaker 1: the mix on the offensive side of the ball that
Speaker 1: maybe aren't there just yet. And the only thing that
Speaker 1: really intrigues me to about this is, you know, Ted Thompson,
Speaker 1: as much as people want to you know, make about
Speaker 1: you know him kind of. They think he sat on
Speaker 1: his hands when it came to trades and things like that.
Speaker 1: He was a very active trader, but you never could
Speaker 1: really predict it. Yeah, he just always seemed to do
Speaker 1: it when you least expected it, particularly on draft day.
Speaker 1: Brian Goodacuinz learned from that, and I think you're seeing
Speaker 1: a blend of his style with how he wants to
Speaker 1: run this thing. He got ten draft picks this year,
Speaker 1: which is pretty impressive concerning there won't be any compensatory
Speaker 1: this year for the first time since what two thousand nine,
Speaker 1: Three extra picks all from trades, all from trades, so
Speaker 1: to to be able to you know, take those now.
Speaker 1: I mean basically they cashed in the haha Clinton Dick's
Speaker 1: maneuver early and they end up getting a fourth rounder
Speaker 1: out of it. I just think there's so many there's
Speaker 1: so much versatility that good Kuntz is gonna be able
Speaker 1: to draw upon that It gives you a lot of
Speaker 1: excitement going into this thing. Do you move up in
Speaker 1: the first round? Do you move back and get more capital?
Speaker 1: And I think those are the type of moves in
Speaker 1: the long run that are going to make this team better. Well,
Speaker 1: this is the This is an interesting point because when
Speaker 1: I wrote a story of earlier in the week on
Speaker 1: where the Packers are sitting in the draft, I've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about the three picks in the top forty
Speaker 1: four and how neither Ron Wolf nor Ted Thompson ever
Speaker 1: took three players in the top forty four of a draft.
Speaker 1: But Ted Thompson did have the opportunity to do that
Speaker 1: in two thousand six. He actually had three picks in
Speaker 1: the top thirty seven, the extra pick coming from the
Speaker 1: Javon Walker trade. But what did Ted Thompson do. He
Speaker 1: ended up taking both of those high second round picks
Speaker 1: in the thirties, trading back to accumulate more picks. But
Speaker 1: then in that second round, after he had already taken
Speaker 1: a j Hawk in the first round, he got Darren
Speaker 1: College and Greg Jennings. Well look at those top three guys, Hawk,
Speaker 1: College and Jennings, all starters, all key players on a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl championship team. A handful of years later, when
Speaker 1: you look at Ted Thompson come into Green Bay in
Speaker 1: two thousand five, Mike McCarthy following him from two thousand six,
Speaker 1: there are definite signs of a five year plan that
Speaker 1: took that team from rebuilding mode, sped that up, got
Speaker 1: them into an NFC Championship game. Two years after, they
Speaker 1: won four games in three years after that NFC Championship
Speaker 1: game found themselves in a Super Bowl. Brian Goodkins, I
Speaker 1: think in Matt Lafore talked about this in the luncheon
Speaker 1: that we had. They have a quarterback much like the
Speaker 1: Packers did back in two thousand five and two thousand
Speaker 1: six with Brett Farve. They have receivers, they have an
Speaker 1: left tackle much like they had with Chad I think
Speaker 1: when so many people ask about you know, we get
Speaker 1: this all the time and insider in box, you know,
Speaker 1: how soon can we expect the Packers to compete? They
Speaker 1: are one free agent class, They are one solid draft
Speaker 1: class away from being right back in this thing. And
Speaker 1: I think when you look at the grand scheme of things,
Speaker 1: the way this league is built and developed, that's one
Speaker 1: of the biggest takeaways I took from Ted Thompson is
Speaker 1: that it doesn't take that long to renovate a program.
Speaker 1: And that's the situation that Brian good Coins finds himself
Speaker 1: in right now. And I think the model that we
Speaker 1: as we've talked about before, is the New Orleans Saints.
Speaker 1: They had three consecutive seven and nine seasons with a
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame quarterback and Drew Brees, but they had
Speaker 1: a home run draft that brought them Marshawn Lattimore, that
Speaker 1: brought them Alvin Kamara, and then here. The last two years,
Speaker 1: the New Orleans Saints have been right on the brink
Speaker 1: of the Super Bowl and as I would argue they
Speaker 1: should have ended any would they should have been in
Speaker 1: the super Bowl this past season. But I want to
Speaker 1: turn back to the defensive side of the ball here
Speaker 1: for the Packers as we go into this draft. You
Speaker 1: wrote a story on our website about the edge rushers,
Speaker 1: and it's a deep group of edge rushers here. I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier the pass rushers like Nick Bosa, Josh Allen,
Speaker 1: Quentin Williams. On the defensive line, they won't be there
Speaker 1: when the when the Packers are on the clock. At twelve.
Speaker 1: Other defensive front players, big time guys, Ed Oliver from Houston,
Speaker 1: Rashan Gary from Michigan, another big guy who ran a
Speaker 1: blazing for six times by the way, un pounds that's
Speaker 1: just ridiculous. So when you look at you look at
Speaker 1: maybe who might be there at number twelve that the
Speaker 1: packers could get to rush the passer. You wrote about
Speaker 1: a few options Jackai pole Light, I want to make
Speaker 1: sure I said it correctly from Florida, Montes Sweat from
Speaker 1: Mississippi State, although now who knows if he's actually going
Speaker 1: to potentially be there at twelve. Cleveland Farrell from Clemson
Speaker 1: is an option. And you mentioned Brian Burns from Florida State,
Speaker 1: who maybe you'd be thinking about more at the number
Speaker 1: thirty pick at the end of the first round, but
Speaker 1: a end his stock seems to be rising as well.
Speaker 1: But a lot of options at edge rusher here that
Speaker 1: the packers are certainly looking at. Yeah, exactly. And it's
Speaker 1: funny too because, as you mentioned, Burns was a guy
Speaker 1: that was looking at it. He was going to be
Speaker 1: the end of the first round. Well, he shows up
Speaker 1: the combine, he puts on twenty one pounds and he
Speaker 1: runs a four or five six. I mean, that's uh,
Speaker 1: that's quite the change in terms of you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of months stretch. It's going to be an intriguing
Speaker 1: class here because here the fact of the matter is
Speaker 1: Clay Matthews is an unrestricted free agent. Packers have said
Speaker 1: only positive things about him, but you don't know how
Speaker 1: this free agent process is going to go. There's questions
Speaker 1: out there about Nick Perry. The reality is beyond that,
Speaker 1: you have Kyler Facrol, who had a great ten sacks season,
Speaker 1: looks like he's going to be a good part of
Speaker 1: this rotation for years to come. And then Reggie Gilbert.
Speaker 1: I think that it's a position that you could use
Speaker 1: help at. I think there's a guy that you could
Speaker 1: add into that rotation and find a way to make
Speaker 1: an impact because it reminds me a lot of two
Speaker 1: thousand nine. Yes, you had Aaron Kampman. He was making
Speaker 1: a change in terms of the defense, but they were
Speaker 1: able to find that pass rusher for the future and
Speaker 1: it changed the course of the Packers defense and to
Speaker 1: sleeve the franchise for the next few seasons. And in
Speaker 1: getting Clay Matthews, I think they're in a very similar
Speaker 1: spot right now. And if they want to go that route, Michael,
Speaker 1: there are probably a dozen guys, whether it's defensive line,
Speaker 1: outside linebackers, whatever you want to call them, there are
Speaker 1: a dozen guys from that defensive front they're gonna go
Speaker 1: in the first round, and as we said, whether it's
Speaker 1: at twelve or thirty, they're gonna have some interesting decisions
Speaker 1: to make. Yeah, no question about it. Well, with that,
Speaker 1: we're going to call it a wrap on this edition
Speaker 1: of Packers Unscripted and for our on location work here
Speaker 1: at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining us and for tuning in for Wes. I'm Mike.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.