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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.

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Speaker 1: I and Mike Spofford joined alongside my trusted colleague West Hodko.

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Speaker 1: It's we are coming to you one final time from

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Speaker 1: the NFL scouting Combine in downtown Indianapolis before we hit

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Speaker 1: the road to come back to our abodes in Green Bay.

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Speaker 1: And West We've been here. It's been a long week.

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Speaker 1: It's been a busy week. It's been a fun week.

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Speaker 1: I think if there's one major takeaway from what we've

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Speaker 1: seen throughout this entire process and how things are shaping up,

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Speaker 1: it's that when you look at the top of this

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Speaker 1: draft and the Packers are sitting at the number twelve pick,

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Speaker 1: you have players on the defensive front, a group that

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Speaker 1: Brian Guducunt calls the deep best he's ever seen in

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Speaker 1: a long time in the drafts, that he has worked,

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Speaker 1: an offensive line group that is stronger than maybe was

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Speaker 1: perceived earlier on. You throw in the fact that a

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Speaker 1: tight end from Iowa t J. Hockenson being talked about

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Speaker 1: as a possible top ten pick, and then all the

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Speaker 1: mystery surrounding who's going to draft Kyler Murray, the quarterback

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Speaker 1: out of Oklahoma. It really looks like with the Packers

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Speaker 1: sitting at twelve, and I'm not telling Brian Goudaquin's what

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Speaker 1: to do here, but with the Packers sitting at twelve,

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Speaker 1: there's potentially a really, really good player who could be

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Speaker 1: there for the taking for Green Bay at number twelve,

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Speaker 1: they don't necessarily have to move around to find a

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Speaker 1: potential impact star here. Yeah, Mike, you mentioned it's been

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Speaker 1: a long week, and it certainly has been that. But

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Speaker 1: the one thing that stands out to me as we

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Speaker 1: sit here now is is this thing draws to a

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Speaker 1: close to the fact that in all the years I've

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Speaker 1: covered this now, which I believe is my six or

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Speaker 1: seven combine, I don't know if I can recall a

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Speaker 1: year in which so many guys have sort of distinguished themselves,

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Speaker 1: you know that their forty times, with their bench press,

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Speaker 1: with their vertical there just seems like there's been quite

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Speaker 1: a few that have put their names out there. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned Hockinson from Iowa, Well then you had no offense

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Speaker 1: come right back and was like, hey, hold my draft projection,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of outshine some some people here as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he beat Hockinson by two tenths of a second in

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Speaker 1: the forty yard dash, and Hockinson's four seven one for

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Speaker 1: a tight end was nothing to sneeze at, not at all,

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Speaker 1: especially a guy that is projected a sort of that

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Speaker 1: all around in line tight end. Then he had dk

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Speaker 1: Metcalf come through with the four three three forty for

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Speaker 1: a guy that's over two pounds was the fastest forty

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Speaker 1: time since two thousand three. So the thing I'm the

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Speaker 1: point I'm trying to make with all this is that

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Speaker 1: Brian Goodkin's last year, I remember him saying when there

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Speaker 1: was all these quarterbacks, they were talking about his potential

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Speaker 1: top ten picks and there ended up being four of them.

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Speaker 1: How that bode well for the Packers and where they

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Speaker 1: wanted to pick. And then what happens on draft night.

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Speaker 1: They get to number fourteen, There's a number of different

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Speaker 1: guys on the board at that spot, and he decides

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Speaker 1: to trade back and get an extra first round pick

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Speaker 1: while only moving back four spots to probably get the

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Speaker 1: same guy they were looking at in Gire Alexander's When

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Speaker 1: you look at number twelve this year, there are a

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Speaker 1: number of blue shippers, as you said, and it is

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Speaker 1: destined to be a fact that at least a few

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Speaker 1: of them are going to be there. The question is

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Speaker 1: going to be, though, where do you take them? Because

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Speaker 1: there are so many different guys at so many different

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Speaker 1: positions that could help the Packers. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: that is the question. When you look at the guys

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Speaker 1: at the top of this draft on the defensive side

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Speaker 1: of the ball, you have your Nick Bosa, your Josh Allen,

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Speaker 1: your Quinn and Williams. Those guys aren't going to be

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Speaker 1: there at number twelve, but those being your in your

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Speaker 1: top five, top six, six, top seven picks, however that

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Speaker 1: shakes out, and then you throw in a quarterback or

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Speaker 1: maybe two that get taken up there. It's just gonna

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Speaker 1: keep pushing players down there. Now. The other thing that

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Speaker 1: works into the Packers advantages that when you look at

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Speaker 1: where they are at edge rusher, the need that there

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Speaker 1: is on the offensive line, and the need that there

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Speaker 1: is at tight end, the it doesn't matter necessarily what

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Speaker 1: position that player is going to play, because I think

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Speaker 1: the Packers are going to have their pick of some

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Speaker 1: real top quality guys at a key position of need

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Speaker 1: as they head into Yeah. Absolutely, and then if there's

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Speaker 1: enough of them, maybe you move back again, who knows

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Speaker 1: get to two thousand, twenty draft pick. But the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing that that was my takeaway from all this so far,

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Speaker 1: and it was kind of I did a story looking

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Speaker 1: at some of those pass rushers, the guys that could

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Speaker 1: be available so many years, might cael these last few years.

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Speaker 1: It seems like I remember when Ryan Ramcheck you remember

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Speaker 1: him from Wisconsin went at the podium offensive and they

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Speaker 1: were talking and I think you know at Lanta ended

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Speaker 1: up taking them, but they were that that year. They're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this might be the only New Orleans part of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they ended up taking them, and people were saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: this might be the only offensive lineman worth taking in

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Speaker 1: the first round that year. And how many years, like

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Speaker 1: last year we were we had Marcus Davenport here and

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Speaker 1: people were saying, now this this might be the guy

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Speaker 1: that fits for the packers, but maybe it's a stretch

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Speaker 1: this year it really isn't the k And and and you

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Speaker 1: look at some of these guys now in their forty times,

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Speaker 1: Brian Burns, who a lot of the people that I

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Speaker 1: was looking at, we're saying, hey, this guy could end

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Speaker 1: up being an end of the first round type guy.

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Speaker 1: Maybe into the second Well, he runs a four or

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Speaker 1: five six mantes sweat before we came down here runs

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Speaker 1: a four four two. These are guys that two or

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Speaker 1: fifty five, two and sixty pounds running ridiculous times in

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Speaker 1: the forty. It's not everything, but as Larry was mccarroen

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Speaker 1: was talking about, if you're able to disengage the ability

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Speaker 1: to close to the quarterback and utilize your advantages there,

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Speaker 1: it's going to give the Packers a lot to consider,

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Speaker 1: specifically a pass rusher. And then, as you mentioned with

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Speaker 1: some of those tight ends as well, it's been a

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Speaker 1: long time since the Packers took a tight end in

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Speaker 1: the first round, but there's a couple at either twelve

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Speaker 1: or thirty them might make them think about it. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: and those two guys, we've mentioned them already, Iowa's t J.

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Speaker 1: Hockenson and Noah Fanse, two tight ends from the same school. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty rare that two tight ends would go in

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Speaker 1: the first round of the draft. There are actually three

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Speaker 1: that were drafted in the first round just a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago. But that's the only time you've had

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Speaker 1: multiple first round tight ends in uh, you know, really

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Speaker 1: this century. I believe it's never happened before that you've

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Speaker 1: had two first round tight ends from the same school,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly looks like that could be the case

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Speaker 1: in this draft with Hockinson and Fan. Now, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to oversimplify things too much, but everything you've read

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Speaker 1: is that Hockinson is the immediate plug and play, instant

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Speaker 1: starter in the NFL, and that's why he's being talked

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Speaker 1: about as a potential top ten pick in this draft.

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Speaker 1: Because of the athleticism and as we mentioned the forty

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Speaker 1: time a four five one from Noah Fan as opposed

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Speaker 1: to the four seven one from Hockinson, the long term

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Speaker 1: upside so to speak of Fan is also is very

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Speaker 1: attractive as well. Not what I wonder about is with

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Speaker 1: the four five one from strictly the Packers situation, if

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Speaker 1: you were hoping that Noah Fan maybe was going to

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Speaker 1: fall all the way to number thirty at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the first round, that might not happen anymore, not

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Speaker 1: not with not with the testing numbers that he's put

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Speaker 1: up here in India. Yea. And you look at that

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Speaker 1: list of guys that have run in the four fives

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Speaker 1: for tight ends over the years, those guys didn't last

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Speaker 1: very long. Now, they weren't all just immediate, you know,

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Speaker 1: go to a team and dominate type players. I think

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Speaker 1: even a guy like Jared Cook, who was one of them,

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Speaker 1: took time for him to get immersed in the NFL game.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the things I think that makes

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Speaker 1: Hockinson such an intriguing prospect because it is really difficult.

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Speaker 1: He saw with Evan Ingram, but for the most part,

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Speaker 1: it's tough for a rookie to come in the NFL

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Speaker 1: and just dominate and just be a guy that's gonna

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Speaker 1: have six hundred yards and ten touchdown catches. It just

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen at that position and be the reliable blocker

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Speaker 1: that a coach wants in the running game, which is

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Speaker 1: which is what they're talking about with these two Iowa prospects,

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Speaker 1: and and Alabama's IRV Smith is probably the three of

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Speaker 1: those top three types. And his dad played in the

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Speaker 1: league at that position, was a former first round pick

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Speaker 1: out a Notre Dame. And he was talking about that

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Speaker 1: as well, and he mentioned a funny little story about

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Speaker 1: how some of those same scouts that scouted his dad

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Speaker 1: were talking to him now in Indianapolis twenties six years later.

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Speaker 1: So those those two positions to me are the most intriguing. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: there's others that the packers could consider. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: do you look at baby adding another receiver? You know,

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Speaker 1: do you look at potentially finding another offensive lineman that

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Speaker 1: could help you this draft, if for nothing no other reason,

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Speaker 1: I think is really going to be good for depth

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Speaker 1: in being able to maximize the value of those pis. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing too, we in some of our other videos,

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Speaker 1: Larry McCarron talked about that Iowa pipeline to to Green

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Speaker 1: Bay and when you look at it going all the

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Speaker 1: way back to Aaron Campman in the early two thousand's

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Speaker 1: and then you have you've drafted Brian Blaga, Mike Daniels,

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Speaker 1: Micah Hide, Josh Jackson last year. Um, there's never been

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Speaker 1: a character issue any of those kinds of things. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at these two tight ends out of Iowa,

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Speaker 1: they pride themselves right now on on the fact that

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Speaker 1: they are the dual tight end that NFL teams are

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Speaker 1: looking for. They can they can split out wide, run

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Speaker 1: the routes and catch passes. They can also line up

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Speaker 1: in line and blow can be a big part of

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Speaker 1: the running game, and that's why they're being talked about

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Speaker 1: as highly as they are. Yeah, and the Packers have

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Speaker 1: kind of played around with those positions the last few years.

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Speaker 1: Certainly look at Jared Cook. I think in terms of

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Speaker 1: what Mike McCarthy's offense was, he's the one that has

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Speaker 1: fit the best, maybe even arguably better than when jaw

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Speaker 1: Michael Finley was in his prime, just based on what

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Speaker 1: he could do on the perimeter but also come inside

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Speaker 1: and make an impact as an inline guy. Uh Mark,

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Speaker 1: you know, Martellis Bennett really didn't work as an inline guy.

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Speaker 1: They're just you know, there was a drops issue there

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Speaker 1: and the blocking was good, but he just didn't seem

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Speaker 1: like he fit the offense. And then last year, I

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Speaker 1: think Jimmy Graham showed some really significant signs of being

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Speaker 1: a playmaker in this offense, but between the knee injury

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Speaker 1: he suffered in training camp and then also breaking the

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Speaker 1: thumb in Seattle held him back. Now that the thing

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Speaker 1: that I like about this with Brian Goodkusen and Matt

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Speaker 1: Lafore both sounding like they're planning to have Jimmy Graham

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Speaker 1: in this offense is if you do go with the

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Speaker 1: tight end, whether or not it is the first round

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Speaker 1: or not. If you do finally draft one, you have

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Speaker 1: time to be able to mold that individual well, to

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Speaker 1: have them work with Jimmy Graham. And I keep going

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Speaker 1: back to what Robert Tonyan said last year about how

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Speaker 1: valuable it was to be in the room with him

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Speaker 1: and how much that helped him. I mean, you take

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Speaker 1: a legit tight end prospect as a rookie and allowed

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Speaker 1: them to work in a room with Jimmy Graham, I

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Speaker 1: think only good things are going to happen. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned before too, the Packers not being talked

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Speaker 1: about as much as in the wide receiver of the

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Speaker 1: running back market, but certainly going into this draft with

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Speaker 1: ten picks, six picks in the first four rounds, the

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Speaker 1: opportunity is going to be there to to find more

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Speaker 1: of those, uh, those skill position players that that maybe

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Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur has his eye on in terms of certain

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Speaker 1: skill sets, certain things that he wants to add to

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Speaker 1: the mix on the offensive side of the ball that

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Speaker 1: maybe aren't there just yet. And the only thing that

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Speaker 1: really intrigues me to about this is, you know, Ted Thompson,

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Speaker 1: as much as people want to you know, make about

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Speaker 1: you know him kind of. They think he sat on

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Speaker 1: his hands when it came to trades and things like that.

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Speaker 1: He was a very active trader, but you never could

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Speaker 1: really predict it. Yeah, he just always seemed to do

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Speaker 1: it when you least expected it, particularly on draft day.

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Speaker 1: Brian Goodacuinz learned from that, and I think you're seeing

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Speaker 1: a blend of his style with how he wants to

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Speaker 1: run this thing. He got ten draft picks this year,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty impressive concerning there won't be any compensatory

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Speaker 1: this year for the first time since what two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: Three extra picks all from trades, all from trades, so

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Speaker 1: to to be able to you know, take those now.

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Speaker 1: I mean basically they cashed in the haha Clinton Dick's

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Speaker 1: maneuver early and they end up getting a fourth rounder

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Speaker 1: out of it. I just think there's so many there's

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Speaker 1: so much versatility that good Kuntz is gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to draw upon that It gives you a lot of

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Speaker 1: excitement going into this thing. Do you move up in

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Speaker 1: the first round? Do you move back and get more capital?

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Speaker 1: And I think those are the type of moves in

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Speaker 1: the long run that are going to make this team better. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is the This is an interesting point because when

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Speaker 1: I wrote a story of earlier in the week on

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Speaker 1: where the Packers are sitting in the draft, I've talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about the three picks in the top forty

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Speaker 1: four and how neither Ron Wolf nor Ted Thompson ever

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Speaker 1: took three players in the top forty four of a draft.

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Speaker 1: But Ted Thompson did have the opportunity to do that

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Speaker 1: in two thousand six. He actually had three picks in

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Speaker 1: the top thirty seven, the extra pick coming from the

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Speaker 1: Javon Walker trade. But what did Ted Thompson do. He

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Speaker 1: ended up taking both of those high second round picks

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Speaker 1: in the thirties, trading back to accumulate more picks. But

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Speaker 1: then in that second round, after he had already taken

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Speaker 1: a j Hawk in the first round, he got Darren

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Speaker 1: College and Greg Jennings. Well look at those top three guys, Hawk,

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Speaker 1: College and Jennings, all starters, all key players on a

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl championship team. A handful of years later, when

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Speaker 1: you look at Ted Thompson come into Green Bay in

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Speaker 1: two thousand five, Mike McCarthy following him from two thousand six,

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Speaker 1: there are definite signs of a five year plan that

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Speaker 1: took that team from rebuilding mode, sped that up, got

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Speaker 1: them into an NFC Championship game. Two years after, they

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Speaker 1: won four games in three years after that NFC Championship

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Speaker 1: game found themselves in a Super Bowl. Brian Goodkins, I

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Speaker 1: think in Matt Lafore talked about this in the luncheon

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Speaker 1: that we had. They have a quarterback much like the

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Speaker 1: Packers did back in two thousand five and two thousand

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Speaker 1: six with Brett Farve. They have receivers, they have an

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Speaker 1: left tackle much like they had with Chad I think

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Speaker 1: when so many people ask about you know, we get

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Speaker 1: this all the time and insider in box, you know,

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Speaker 1: how soon can we expect the Packers to compete? They

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Speaker 1: are one free agent class, They are one solid draft

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Speaker 1: class away from being right back in this thing. And

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Speaker 1: I think when you look at the grand scheme of things,

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Speaker 1: the way this league is built and developed, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest takeaways I took from Ted Thompson is

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't take that long to renovate a program.

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Speaker 1: And that's the situation that Brian good Coins finds himself

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Speaker 1: in right now. And I think the model that we

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Speaker 1: as we've talked about before, is the New Orleans Saints.

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Speaker 1: They had three consecutive seven and nine seasons with a

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame quarterback and Drew Brees, but they had

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Speaker 1: a home run draft that brought them Marshawn Lattimore, that

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Speaker 1: brought them Alvin Kamara, and then here. The last two years,

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Speaker 1: the New Orleans Saints have been right on the brink

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Speaker 1: of the Super Bowl and as I would argue they

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Speaker 1: should have ended any would they should have been in

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Speaker 1: the super Bowl this past season. But I want to

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Speaker 1: turn back to the defensive side of the ball here

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Speaker 1: for the Packers as we go into this draft. You

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Speaker 1: wrote a story on our website about the edge rushers,

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Speaker 1: and it's a deep group of edge rushers here. I

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier the pass rushers like Nick Bosa, Josh Allen,

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Speaker 1: Quentin Williams. On the defensive line, they won't be there

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Speaker 1: when the when the Packers are on the clock. At twelve.

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Speaker 1: Other defensive front players, big time guys, Ed Oliver from Houston,

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Speaker 1: Rashan Gary from Michigan, another big guy who ran a

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Speaker 1: blazing for six times by the way, un pounds that's

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Speaker 1: just ridiculous. So when you look at you look at

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Speaker 1: maybe who might be there at number twelve that the

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Speaker 1: packers could get to rush the passer. You wrote about

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Speaker 1: a few options Jackai pole Light, I want to make

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Speaker 1: sure I said it correctly from Florida, Montes Sweat from

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Speaker 1: Mississippi State, although now who knows if he's actually going

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Speaker 1: to potentially be there at twelve. Cleveland Farrell from Clemson

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Speaker 1: is an option. And you mentioned Brian Burns from Florida State,

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Speaker 1: who maybe you'd be thinking about more at the number

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Speaker 1: thirty pick at the end of the first round, but

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Speaker 1: a end his stock seems to be rising as well.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of options at edge rusher here that

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Speaker 1: the packers are certainly looking at. Yeah, exactly. And it's

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Speaker 1: funny too because, as you mentioned, Burns was a guy

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Speaker 1: that was looking at it. He was going to be

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Speaker 1: the end of the first round. Well, he shows up

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Speaker 1: the combine, he puts on twenty one pounds and he

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Speaker 1: runs a four or five six. I mean, that's uh,

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Speaker 1: that's quite the change in terms of you know, a

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Speaker 1: couple of months stretch. It's going to be an intriguing

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Speaker 1: class here because here the fact of the matter is

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Speaker 1: Clay Matthews is an unrestricted free agent. Packers have said

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Speaker 1: only positive things about him, but you don't know how

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Speaker 1: this free agent process is going to go. There's questions

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Speaker 1: out there about Nick Perry. The reality is beyond that,

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Speaker 1: you have Kyler Facrol, who had a great ten sacks season,

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Speaker 1: looks like he's going to be a good part of

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Speaker 1: this rotation for years to come. And then Reggie Gilbert.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's a position that you could use

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Speaker 1: help at. I think there's a guy that you could

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Speaker 1: add into that rotation and find a way to make

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Speaker 1: an impact because it reminds me a lot of two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine. Yes, you had Aaron Kampman. He was making

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Speaker 1: a change in terms of the defense, but they were

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Speaker 1: able to find that pass rusher for the future and

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Speaker 1: it changed the course of the Packers defense and to

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Speaker 1: sleeve the franchise for the next few seasons. And in

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Speaker 1: getting Clay Matthews, I think they're in a very similar

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Speaker 1: spot right now. And if they want to go that route, Michael,

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Speaker 1: there are probably a dozen guys, whether it's defensive line,

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Speaker 1: outside linebackers, whatever you want to call them, there are

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Speaker 1: a dozen guys from that defensive front they're gonna go

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Speaker 1: in the first round, and as we said, whether it's

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Speaker 1: at twelve or thirty, they're gonna have some interesting decisions

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Speaker 1: to make. Yeah, no question about it. Well, with that,

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Speaker 1: we're going to call it a wrap on this edition

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Speaker 1: of Packers Unscripted and for our on location work here

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Speaker 1: at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us and for tuning in for Wes. I'm Mike.

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Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.