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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein, victim fights back

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Speaker 1: and Tonight tells her story. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: So I was on a photo shoot in early two

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Speaker 2: thousand and another young blonde Polish model said, you know,

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Speaker 2: I have a friend who owns island. He's been so

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Speaker 2: wonderful to me. He got me my visa to live

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Speaker 2: in the United States. I just said, okay, sure, I'll

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Speaker 2: go with you. A young blonde girl knocked on my

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Speaker 2: door and told myself that Jeffrey needed a massage.

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Speaker 3: A massage.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. A massage

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Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein turns into full on rape. Why is

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Speaker 1: someone covering for Jeffrey Epstein? Why have we been lied

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Speaker 1: to over and over and over? When I say the

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Speaker 1: US attorney, a lot of people are like, what's the

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Speaker 1: US attorney? The US attorney is the top cop for

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Speaker 1: our nation, our whole country. Now, state to state, you

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Speaker 1: may have one or more US attorneys. They are federal

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Speaker 1: prosecutors appointed to prosecute the state's business and represent victims.

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Speaker 3: For instance, in Georgia.

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Speaker 1: There are three, the Northern, Middle, and Southern District US Attorneys.

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Speaker 3: In every state.

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Speaker 1: There are US attorneys and they are all governed by one,

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Speaker 1: the US attorney. Now, I want you to hear what

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Speaker 1: the US attorney Bondi said about having a client list

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Speaker 1: and all the steam files right on her desk.

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Speaker 3: Okay, listen, the.

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Speaker 2: DOJ may be released the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

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Speaker 1: Well, that really happen.

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Speaker 3: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's

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Speaker 3: been a directive by President Trump. It goes on and

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Speaker 3: on and on.

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Speaker 1: But that's the pertinent part, and that is from our

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Speaker 1: friend John Roberts over at Fox News. We were told

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Speaker 1: there's video, there are flight logs, there are names of clients.

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Speaker 1: Now we're being told, yeah, I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: said that. Don't listen to me, that's wrong. But tonight

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Speaker 1: joining us is a woman that knows better. Now, who

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Speaker 1: are we going to believe her or BONDI? What is

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Speaker 1: the truth at this hour as we go to air tonight,

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Speaker 1: victims Epstein victims are banding together to create a client list.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get to that in just a moment,

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Speaker 1: But first I want to introduce you a very special guest.

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Speaker 3: A Jeffrey Epstein survivor. I hate to always say.

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Speaker 1: Victim because Lisa Phillips has gone on to become a warrior.

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Speaker 1: Yes she's a mother of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous

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Speaker 1: former Ford Agency model. Yes, she's been in a major

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Speaker 1: motion picture among many things. Any given Sunday, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have seen that she's in it. She's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: she's accomplished, she's articulate. She's also a Jeffrey Epstein victim

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Speaker 1: now survivor, slash warrior.

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Speaker 3: Lisa, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Nancy, and thank you for calling me a warrior.

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Speaker 2: That means so much to me, especially in this climate

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: You are you know, all over our country, Lisa. Sex

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Speaker 1: attack victims don't speak out for a number of reasons.

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Speaker 1: I mean I could rattle off many many cases that

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Speaker 1: I personally investigated and prosecuted where the victim did not

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Speaker 1: want to.

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Speaker 3: Come forward for so many different reasons.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I had one victim that was repeatedly raped, ag assaulted,

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Speaker 1: and locked into a car trunk, and she and her

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Speaker 1: culture believed to be raped was taboo and that she

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Speaker 1: was the.

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Speaker 3: Bad person, that it was all her fault.

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Speaker 1: So on the stand and her husband was sitting there,

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Speaker 1: she did not want him or anybody else to know

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Speaker 1: she was raped.

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Speaker 3: We could talk about.

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Speaker 1: The agassault, the beating, the tying of the hands, the putting.

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Speaker 3: In the trunk, but we couldn't talk about the rape.

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Speaker 1: She would not admit it, even though she secretly told

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Speaker 1: people she was raped, and the rape kit nurse agreed

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Speaker 1: she had been raped.

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, there's.

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Speaker 1: A million reasons why victims don't come forward. Sometimes they're afraid. Sometimes,

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Speaker 1: like in your case, we already know of estimating between

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Speaker 1: five and twenty people have died connected to the Epstein case.

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Speaker 1: So you are representing victims of assault and attack, and

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Speaker 1: they're listening to you tonight, and they're looking at you,

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Speaker 1: and they're seeing you speak out. I want to go

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Speaker 1: back in time. Oh, by the way, did I mention?

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Speaker 1: Lisa is a host of a hit podcast called From

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Speaker 1: now On, where she interviews other crime victims and talks

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Speaker 1: about moving forward. Now, let's talk about moving forward the

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein case. How did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? Mayhe

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Speaker 1: rot in hell?

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Speaker 2: Well? I just want to say thank you for that intro.

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Speaker 2: The survivors are here because we are fed up and

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Speaker 2: we are not victims. We do not like to be

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Speaker 2: called victims. We are survivors. And what that means is

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Speaker 2: we are on the path of healing and making choices

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Speaker 2: that will move the investigation along because we feel like

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Speaker 2: we have answers that can help. And so this whole time,

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Speaker 2: we're thinking, wait a second, you know this person, you

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Speaker 2: saw this person, you were at the island, you were there.

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Speaker 2: How can we connect the dots? And so that's what

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Speaker 2: we realized. You know what, We're taking our power back

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Speaker 2: because what happened to me on that island back in

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Speaker 2: two thousand should have never have happened. I was brought

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Speaker 2: there by another young girl. And that was the genius

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Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring, as he got other

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Speaker 2: girls and young women to bring more. And there was

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Speaker 2: this layers and layers of girls. As you hear the

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Speaker 2: young Florida girls, they all were brought there by other

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Speaker 2: young underage girls. And the same with me on the island.

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Speaker 2: I was brought there by another girl in her early

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Speaker 2: twenties who thought Jeffrey was the world. I mean, she

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Speaker 2: was groomed to think that. But you know, she convinced me, Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's not a big deal to jump on a boat

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Speaker 2: and go over to an island and see this wonderful

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Speaker 2: person and hang out for the day. So that's what

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: So when you flew, when you were flown to the island,

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Speaker 1: what do you think was going to happen, Lisa.

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Speaker 2: Nancy, I took a boat to the island because I

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Speaker 2: was next I was at Tortola, the island next door.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, that's significant. Why is that significant? How you

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Speaker 1: got to the island Because a lot of these girls,

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Speaker 1: as young as twelve years old were brought in from

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Speaker 1: other countries, particularly the stands Uzbekistan, from Turkey, from Russia.

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Speaker 1: They were flown yes to the mainland, and then they

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Speaker 1: were put on a ferry that ferried them over to

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Speaker 1: Epstein's Island in the US. Virgin Islands, by the way,

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Speaker 1: is under US jurisdiction, so we can prosecute cases there.

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Speaker 3: You're right.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because when I try case,

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Speaker 1: I like to corroborate in my witness because every victim

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Speaker 1: is going to be attacked on cross examination, and we

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Speaker 1: just saw that in the Shawn Comes case, the two

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Speaker 1: victims had.

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Speaker 3: Photos and videos of them being beaten, covered in bruises.

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Speaker 1: They described vomiting after attacks in the shower and being

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Speaker 1: forced out back into a.

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Speaker 3: Freak off party, i e. Rape.

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Speaker 1: Even then, the jury believed that they were on the take,

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Speaker 1: that this was all about them getting some kind of

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Speaker 1: money settlement. So, long story short, I try to corroborate

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Speaker 1: victims even when I believe them for the jury. What

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Speaker 1: you just said is what all these then little girls

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Speaker 1: said they were loan to the mainland and then they

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Speaker 1: were ferried to the island. Is that an element of

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Speaker 1: proof of a felony? No, but it corroborates their story.

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Speaker 1: So tell me how that worked. Every fact is important, Lisa.

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Speaker 1: So you're flown to.

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Speaker 3: The mainland and then you take a ferry. Is that

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Speaker 3: what you're saying?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, basically the same thing. I was on the

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Speaker 2: US version islands as well and as well and taken

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Speaker 2: by boat over to his island. What kind of boat

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Speaker 2: like a ferry boat?

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Speaker 1: So somebody picked you up at a dock, you got on,

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Speaker 1: they took you over, and they dropped you off at an

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Speaker 1: appointed spot.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: That's correct?

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Speaker 1: That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you

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Speaker 1: haven't even spoken to or or you don't know their names.

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Speaker 3: So amazing how your.

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Speaker 1: Stories already are like a fingerprint story.

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Speaker 3: They fit exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you get to Epstein's island and what happens.

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Speaker 3: Well, An, That's the.

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Speaker 2: Reason why I started speaking out in the first place,

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Speaker 2: is because when I would hear the victim's story, I

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Speaker 2: would say, wait a second, that happened to me too,

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Speaker 2: you know, so it would happen over and over with

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Speaker 2: that happened to me, Or you know, I can I

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Speaker 2: can stand up for them, you know, I can be

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Speaker 2: the one to stick up for them. That's what I

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Speaker 2: was thinking in the beginning, but it hasn't really turned

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Speaker 2: out that way. So on the island, we actually had

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Speaker 2: a really good time on the island for the first

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Speaker 2: several hours, hanging out at the pool, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we had a wonderful dinner where I met Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: And Jeffrey is charming and he's very intelligent, and he's

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Speaker 2: locked in on you. He already knew all the other

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Speaker 2: young girls at the table, so he locked in on me.

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Speaker 2: You know, I had grown up in Oxford, England as

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Speaker 2: a child, and so we had that connection. And I

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Speaker 2: knew a lot about art, and I had traveled around

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Speaker 2: the world quite a bit already at that point, and

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Speaker 2: so we had a lot to talk about. And he

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Speaker 2: said he found me fascinating, and he said I was

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Speaker 2: at a powerful presence. He said all these wonderful things

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Speaker 2: to me, and he just built me up.

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Speaker 1: And wait a minute, White a manu at White, a

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Speaker 1: minute at hold on Hold a Ford model for twelve years,

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Speaker 1: you don't know when some man is blowing smoke up

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Speaker 1: your skirt you have a powerful presence.

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Speaker 3: What does that even mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, I wasn't a Ford model yet. I wasn't a

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Speaker 2: Ford model yet. And I was like, you know, I

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Speaker 2: had grown up, I had left, I grow I graduate

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Speaker 2: high school in Belgium with fifty people. So I was

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Speaker 2: a little naive. And also I didn't have that confidence

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Speaker 2: that a lot of girls that have wonderful fathers that

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Speaker 2: are calling them every day and building them up and

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Speaker 2: saying I'm proud of you. And I had I think

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Speaker 2: low self esteem when it came to men, because I

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Speaker 2: just didn't have that father daughter relationship that was powerful

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Speaker 2: and strong and made me feel confident. I think I

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Speaker 2: just always felt a little worthless, and that you know,

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Speaker 2: I could never be enough for my family or for

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Speaker 2: my father.

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Speaker 1: And so attention you, Lisa Phillips. Okay, do I have

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Speaker 1: the right Lisa Phillips. This is the woman that started

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Speaker 1: in any given Sunday and it's four model, twelve years and.

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Speaker 3: You felt insecure? What does that? I mean?

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Speaker 1: What does that leave me and everybody else just as

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Speaker 1: mere mortals? Okay, so you feel insecure. So you and

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Speaker 1: we're very young and a very sheltered upbringing. So when

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Speaker 1: someone talks to you like that and gives you this attention,

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Speaker 1: you were still what were you twenty one?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was in my early twenties.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you were flattered. You were flattered. You said something earlier.

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Speaker 1: About the genius of Jeffrey Epstein, how he would get

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Speaker 1: young girls to bring in other girls, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: everyone to keep in mind that the young girls were

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Speaker 1: very often as young as thirteen. Now you just said

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Speaker 1: something that again echoes exactly what other Epstein victims have said.

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Speaker 3: I want you to listen. Listen to this.

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Speaker 4: And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 4: undressed and asked me to do things to him. My

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Speaker 4: eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been

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Speaker 4: more scared in my life. When it was over, he

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Speaker 4: paid me two hundred dollars and requested in exchange that

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Speaker 4: I bring a girl each time to make another two

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Speaker 4: hundred dollars. I told him I did not want to

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Speaker 4: do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I

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Speaker 4: felt in hope to never hear from him again, but

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Speaker 4: he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful,

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Speaker 4: and he would not let me goet. I had no

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Speaker 4: choice if I disobeyed him. I knew something bad would happen.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what Lisa Phillips is saying she observed, and

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Speaker 1: a completely different location at a different time. Now, what

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Speaker 1: you were hearing is from at Rep. Thomas Massey on

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Speaker 1: X and you were hearing Haley Robson talking about when

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Speaker 1: she first met Epstein, she was a little girl and

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Speaker 1: he raped her, gave her two hundred dollars, like throwing

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Speaker 1: down a twenty at the waffle house. You know, big

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Speaker 1: man throwing around two hundred dollars to a little girl,

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Speaker 1: and he was asking the little girl, now adult Hallie

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Speaker 1: Robson to bring other little girls in for him to rape,

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Speaker 1: and I want you to hear what happened.

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Speaker 4: I started to bring him other girls from my high school,

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Speaker 4: and he paid me two hundred dollars two hundred dollars

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Speaker 4: for bringing them. I just hoped each time it would

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Speaker 4: be the last time. One day, the stepmom of one

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Speaker 4: of the girls brought him and called the police on

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein. The police then called me, called me in

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Speaker 4: for questioning. I had told them the truth, despite the

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Speaker 4: fact that I was a teenager and a miner, and

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Speaker 4: I was able to tell the police the names of

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Speaker 4: all the other victims.

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Speaker 1: And she goes on Lisa to state, the police made

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Speaker 1: me feel like I was the criminal because I, as

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Speaker 1: a girl, had brought him other girls. But he made

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Speaker 1: me and somehow she turns into the bad person and

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Speaker 1: he doesn't get prosecuted down there in Palm Beach County.

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Speaker 3: Again, that's from at Rep.

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Speaker 1: Thomas Massey on X That mirrors exactly what you called

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Speaker 1: the genius. I guess, evil genius Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was evil genius. He had it down

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Speaker 2: so good that he made the girls feel guilty for

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Speaker 2: bringing other girls. But he made you do that, and

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Speaker 2: like she said, he would call you every day. His

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Speaker 2: secretaries would call every single day. They would hound you.

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Speaker 2: When I got back from the island, they hounded me

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Speaker 2: for four months straight every day until I would change

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Speaker 2: my mind to go in and meet with him again.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, let me circle back to when

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Speaker 1: you met with him the first time. So we left

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Speaker 1: off with you being told you had a powerful presence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, right there, I would say, no, got to

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Speaker 1: get powerful presence, my rare end.

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Speaker 3: But what happened after that?

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey always said things to build you up, so he

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Speaker 2: was more of a mentor to a lot of these

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Speaker 2: girls when we were sitting together at Capitol Hill. You

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Speaker 2: have to understand it is a very confusing thing because

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Speaker 2: you know his grooming process is to eventually abuse you,

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Speaker 2: but in between, he's like a wonderful mentor, so he

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Speaker 2: builds you up the way you've never been built up before.

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Speaker 2: Whoa hold on seems in.

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Speaker 3: Your alformation Jeffrey eb saying a mentor. Okay, wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: I know he promised to get people jobs and modeling

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Speaker 1: gigs and parts on movies.

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Speaker 3: Did he ever come through with any of that?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I've never spoken to anyone in his

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Speaker 2: world that he didn't come through on everything. He said.

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Speaker 2: That's the reason why he got away with everything, because

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Speaker 2: he made everything happen.

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Speaker 1: So he would set people up with gigs and get

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Speaker 1: them actual jobs.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about gigs, but if you were

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Speaker 2: interested in law, he helped you out. If you're interested

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Speaker 2: in art, he helped you out with getting a position

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Speaker 2: at art gallery. I know TV hosts, actresses, many women

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Speaker 2: who have successful businesses because of Jeffrey. Actually, I know

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Speaker 2: many that have husbands because of Jeffrey as well. So

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Speaker 2: he did do a lot of good things for you

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Speaker 2: because he had to, because that's how what you had

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Speaker 2: to do is let him ripe you. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: he was also very sneaky about that. With massages, it

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Speaker 2: was always a massage. It was always a real massage,

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Speaker 2: you know. So that's what these girls are saying. And

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Speaker 2: I was hoping it was the last time I would

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Speaker 2: have this massage. And then sometimes a massage would turn

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Speaker 2: it into molestation or rape. Jeffrey is ready for his massage.

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Speaker 2: I was just like, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: What massage?

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Speaker 2: The other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes, you know, massages,

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Speaker 2: you just have to do it. I was trapped on

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Speaker 2: the island. I didn't know where to go. I just,

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Speaker 2: you know, follow the girl into his room to do

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Speaker 2: the massage with this other young girl, and I ended

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Speaker 2: up being abused on that island.

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Speaker 3: So, guys, Lisa Phillips with us tonight, just amazing.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful, articulate, brilliant, has seen the world and is.

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Speaker 3: A survivor of Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was just thinking about, as I was

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Speaker 1: rattling off all your accomplishments earlier, what do you make

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Speaker 1: of so many Epstein victims dying? I feel like we're

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Speaker 1: in Russia. Whenever anyone speaks ill of Putin, they suddenly

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Speaker 1: jump out a window and die, or they get poison

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Speaker 1: and die. A lot of suicides connected to Putin. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go hide under the bed after tonight.

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Speaker 1: But what do you make of so many people? I

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Speaker 1: can count off five just on my off the top

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Speaker 1: of my head. But I've read other reports up in

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Speaker 1: the twenties. I mean, you've got Virginia Giffrey, you have

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Speaker 1: Jean Luke Brunei that was his French counterpart, Renell his

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Speaker 1: French counterpart. I mean, there's so many other reports up

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Speaker 1: to twenty. Do you ever think about that you have

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Speaker 1: three boys to raise and victims are dropping like flies

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Speaker 1: before they can testify. Does that concern you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I knew Virginia, and I've spoken a

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Speaker 2: lot to her family and all of her friends and survivors,

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Speaker 2: and unfortunately there's quite a few survivors that have passed away.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I hope it wasn't anything darker. But

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Speaker 2: what we believe with the cycle of abuse is it's

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Speaker 2: something that you just never get over and it torments you.

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Speaker 2: And certain individuals they can't take it and they can't

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Speaker 2: take their life. And like Virginia, she was fighting so

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Speaker 2: hard to bring these powerful men down and she was

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Speaker 2: just losing every fight. And no amount of money is

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Speaker 2: going to say to you and keep you happy. It

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Speaker 2: just doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 1: Lisa, speaking of all of the people that have committed

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Speaker 1: suicide or died accidentally connected to the Epstein case, I

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Speaker 1: was first referring to Epstein's French counterpart, Jean Luke Brennell.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 5: When Epstein was in jail in Florida in two thousand

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Speaker 5: and eight, Jean Luke Brenell visited him seventy times. Virginia

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Speaker 5: Giuffrey alleged that she was sexually trafficked by Epstein and

359
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 5: Maxwell to several high profile individuals, including Brunell, while she

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Speaker 5: was under age. After Epstein's death, Brunell went into hiding.

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Speaker 5: He was arrested December sixteenth, twenty twenty, investigated for rape,

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Speaker 5: sexual assault, in human trafficking, and charged with drugging and

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Speaker 5: raping a seventeen year old girl. Brunell was found dead

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Speaker 5: in his berege In jail cell, allegedly hanging himself two

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Speaker 5: years after Epstein's death.

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Speaker 3: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to Jean Luke Brenell, there is Carolyn Andriano.

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Speaker 5: When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing

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Speaker 5: Carolyn Andreano and continued to abuse her for the next

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Speaker 5: four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial for

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Speaker 5: sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in a

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Speaker 5: West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age of

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Speaker 5: thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children. West

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Speaker 5: Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.

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Speaker 1: So we've got one suicide of Jean Luke Brenell, then

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Speaker 1: we have one accidental overdose of Carolyn Andreano.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 5: Carolyn Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have died

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Speaker 5: of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.

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Speaker 5: The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee

381
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Speaker 5: Sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach

382
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Speaker 5: hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Patrick says,

383
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Speaker 5: leet guy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course there are questions still swirling about

385
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Speaker 1: the death off Virginia Giffrey.

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Speaker 5: Royal experts say the death of Virginia Jeffrey cements Prince

387
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Speaker 5: Andrew's place of shame with no hope of ever rehabilitating

388
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Speaker 5: his image. The ball was fast, as Virginia Jeffrey not

389
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Speaker 5: only accused the Prince of sexual abuse, she had a

390
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Speaker 5: picture taken with the fallen royal on the cover of

391
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Speaker 5: every news outlet in the world. When Epstein was arrested,

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Speaker 5: Royal expert Richard Fitzwilliams tells Fox News Digital Virginia Jeffrey

393
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Speaker 5: was ultimately a tragic victim of a brutal pedophile. Any

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Speaker 5: hope Andrew may have had of casting doubt on her

395
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Speaker 5: evidence no longer exists. Prince Andrew's stripped of his royal

396
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Speaker 5: and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates more negativity as the

397
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,719
Speaker 5: allegations jump back into the headlines. According to one royal watcher,

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Speaker 5: Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him, but merely closes the matter.

399
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Speaker 1: And then, last but not least, Jeffrey Epstein himself come

400
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Speaker 1: in suicide.

401
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Speaker 5: There's no way the guy can commit suicide from the

402
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Speaker 5: clothing they gave him, to the types of sheet that

403
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Speaker 5: he had to cover himself with while he slapped. It

404
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 5: was described as something a little bit thicker than paper,

405
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Speaker 5: but not strong enough to hold the weight of an individual.

406
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Speaker 5: There are no bars in the cell, there's no light fixtures.

407
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Speaker 5: There's nothing that you can tie on to if you

408
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Speaker 5: had something to tie up and make a noose. His

409
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Speaker 5: former cellmate said, there was no way this could happen. Now.

410
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Speaker 5: The guards is supposed to be looking in on him

411
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Speaker 5: every couple of minutes. They were supposed to be viewed

412
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Speaker 5: physically every twenty minutes. So you've got an impossible situation

413
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Speaker 5: being sold to the public as reality.

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Speaker 1: So Lisa, neither you nor I, neither of us are

415
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Speaker 1: forensic experts. But I find it hard to believe that

416
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Speaker 1: between five and twenty people have all died of accidental

417
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Speaker 1: overdoses and suicides, all connected to Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how to explain it.

419
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Speaker 1: Back to that night when you met Epstein. Okay, you

420
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Speaker 1: stay that you were told, Hey, it's just a massage,

421
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: you have to do it.

422
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 3: Who tells you that?

423
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Speaker 2: The girl who brought me there?

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Speaker 3: How did she bring you there? How did that happen?

425
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: We were both booked for a photoshoot on Tortola Island.

426
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: It was a British crew. We were both shooting covers

427
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Speaker 2: of the magazine and a full on story spread inside.

428
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Speaker 2: So we were booked for four days on that island.

429
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Speaker 2: Then we had one day that was off, and so

430
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Speaker 2: that's why she suggested that we go over to Jeffrey's

431
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Speaker 2: Island for the day.

432
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Speaker 3: How does she know Epstein?

433
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Speaker 2: She was Eastern European and a lot of young models

434
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 2: that have agencies in Europe, probably linked to Jean luth Burnelle,

435
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure if she is, but I know

436
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: quite a few of them were. They helped them to

437
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 2: come over and Jeffrey secure as their visa for them.

438
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: So once they do that, of course they're very grateful

439
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: to Jeffrey for that, but then can continue to abuse

440
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: them and traffic those girls out, so they're stuck in

441
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: this cycle. So that's why she has this loop going, Oh,

442
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: he's great, He's wonderful, because yeah, part of her probably

443
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: does believe because he has helped her out immensely with

444
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: her life, but he's abusing her. And I know for

445
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: sure she was being trafficked.

446
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: When you say trafficked, what exactly do you.

447
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 2: Mean, Well, Jeffery's other powerful friends. She would have to

448
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 2: go and spend time with them. He would make her

449
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: go spend time with them.

450
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: What did they do? Sit by the fireside and knit?

451
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, most of the time it ends in some type

452
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: of sexual assault.

453
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 3: We Lisa, how do you know that I knew.

454
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: A lot of people in New York back then. I

455
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: have a very outgoing personality. I love people, and I

456
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: just knew a lot of models and ambitious young women

457
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: during that time. And I know at least sixty that

458
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: have never come forward because they have good lives and

459
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: they don't. They want to forget about it, and they

460
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,959
Speaker 2: want to suppress it, and they're comfortable doing that. And

461
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: I sometimes I think it I would have been better

462
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: if I had done that.

463
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: Lisa, Why do you say that, well, just because that

464
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: sometimes you think it would have been better if you

465
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: just never said anything.

466
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: Oh, Nancy, you know it's you know, I suppressed it

467
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 2: for fifteen years, and I feel like my life was

468
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: so much better when you just act like nothing happened,

469
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: you know, But the shame is always there, you know,

470
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 2: it's there, and the confusion was always there for me.

471
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 2: And so I could have been like a lot of

472
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: these girls, hundreds of them in New York, hundreds of

473
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: them eighteen to twenty four. I would think there was

474
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: even more in New York than there wasn't Florida, because

475
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 2: you can get away with a lot more with eighteen

476
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: to twenty two year olds. So those women, they went

477
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: on to do wonderful things with their life. They were

478
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 2: beautiful and tall and attractive, and they got a lot

479
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: of good things from Jeffrey. In a way, their life

480
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: is good. But I think most of them, when you

481
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: suppress that pain, you have that shame that's still there,

482
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: and many things manifest from that illness, disease, mental illness

483
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: and things like that. So you know, it's sometimes I

484
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: just say that, Nancy, just because maybe I shouldn't have

485
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: taken this path. I mean, now that I've gone, you know,

486
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: to DC, this has secured it for me that I'm

487
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: on the right path, But prior to that, sometimes I'm like,

488
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: why am I doing this to myself? Why am I

489
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: in four hours a week of therapy talking about this.

490
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: You know, it's tough. It's not easy to go through

491
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: healing and therapy, Lisa.

492
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: I've met so many crime victims say exactly what you're saying.

493
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: Me.

494
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: I hate it when someone out of the believe asked

495
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: me about my fiancees murder, because I can be having

496
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: a perfectly fine day and then that happens, and more

497
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: often than not, it's like somebody just threw a bucket

498
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: of water on me, and I have to think about

499
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: it him getting shot over and over and over, and

500
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: what did he feel, and did he know what happened

501
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: and how badly did it hurt? And what life would

502
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: have been like if he hadn't been murdered, and just

503
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: it's really upsetting, and you go right back to the

504
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: moment that everything happened.

505
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: So I hear you. I hear you.

506
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: And with rape victims especially, they also, in addition to

507
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: what I just said, feel like it's their fault, like

508
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: I went to the island, or I went to his mansion.

509
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: Of course he thought we were going to have six.

510
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: That's just completely beast atwards. But that is how rape

511
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: victims feel. They feel like it's their fault.

512
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: You know.

513
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 1: I keep getting you right to the point where you're

514
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: on the island with another supermodel like yourself, and she says, oh,

515
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: he's great, Oh he's wonderful. How in the hat did

516
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: it get to You've got to give him a massage.

517
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: Just like that. It was so quick, it was a

518
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: wonderful day, just a normal day. And then right when

519
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: it was time, everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole

520
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: island looked different. The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation,

521
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: in the anxiousness of like, what the frick is going

522
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: on here? And I'm looking at her and I could

523
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: see she has a little fear in her eyes. You know,

524
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: something was wrong with her because she didn't want to

525
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: do it, you know, But it's just something. She took

526
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: a deep breath and she was like, we have to

527
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: do it, and so I just went with her because.

528
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: I didn't really I had a choice. I was literally trapped.

529
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: On an island at that point. There was nowhere to run,

530
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: and I was scared to death of saying no, I'm

531
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: not going to do it. I didn't have it in

532
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: Me'd be like, no way, you know, I just couldn't

533
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: do it. I just froze and just went with her.

534
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: And then what happened, Well, like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein,

535
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: it was a real massage. It really was. It was playful,

536
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: and he was funny, and he was now asking personal,

537
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 2: flirty questions, and you know, he tries to make it

538
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: seem like it's no big deal. You know, that's how

539
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: he is, until then he turns. There's a little darkness.

540
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: There's a little there's a lot of darkness in Jeffrey Epstein.

541
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: So he has this mask. If I'm your mentor, I'm

542
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: going to help you out. I'm this great, caring, wonderful person.

543
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: Look at all my rich, powerful friends. He has a

544
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: six steer that pools, you know, young women in because

545
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: he makes them feel really safe, and he makes you

546
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then there's

547
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: a darkness that which is when he just wants to

548
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: get what he wants and so he loves massages. He does.

549
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: That is his baseline is massages. But then it always

550
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: switches until some type of a little bit of torture,

551
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: you know, if he wants to hurt you a little

552
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: bit with his with his hands and with objects, and

553
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: with the fact that he can control the two young

554
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: women in the room. So it was it was scary.

555
00:30:59,640 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 4: It was.

556
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: I just I'm traumatized every time I think about it. And

557
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: I know you have to ask these questions, but it

558
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: was just the worst night of my life.

559
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: What do you mean by.

560
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: Power and control over the women and hurting them?

561
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think people just think of Jeffrey as like

562
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: this old rich guy just wanted to be around these girls.

563
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: He was a master manipulator. And if you could manipulate

564
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: and basically groom grown powerful men, which is what he did.

565
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: Because nobody even knows what he did. He's so mysterious.

566
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: What do you think he can do to young girls?

567
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think he was doing to us?

568
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: And they try to blame us and victimize us and

569
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: just say that you should have know. I had so

570
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: many comments. You shouldn't known better. Oh you just wanted money.

571
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: Oh no, we did not want money, and we did

572
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: not know better. It was any situation that could have

573
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: been normal. It could have been normal trip, just like

574
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: every other one I've been on with people, powerful people

575
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: in the malling and entertainment industry. They don't turn out

576
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: like this. But Jeffrey has an mo. He does massages

577
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: with young girls, and then he gets them to trust them,

578
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: He grooms them, He gets them to believe they're powerful

579
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: and they could do anything in their lives. I'm speaking

580
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: for the eighteen and over in New York and a

581
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: lot of actually actually a lot of the younger girls

582
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: said the same thing too. But he just masterfully manipulates

583
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: you and then he takes what he wants from you,

584
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: which is your innocence. And at that age I was

585
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: still pretty innocent. I was also five feet nine and

586
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifteen pounds. It look like a little boy,

587
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: so he knew what he was doing.

588
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: Lisa, did he molest you? Yes?

589
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: And then you said the secretary would then call you

590
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: non stop to get you to bring other girls women

591
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: to the island. I'm getting ahead of myself after he

592
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: molested you. I'm sorry, you know. I'm asking you this, Lisa,

593
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: because people don't think it happened, because Pam Bondy has

594
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: her thumb up her rear end, because no one is

595
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: doing anything, because Glaine Maxwell is on the verge of

596
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: walking free. I'm not letting it go because there are

597
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: other clients that statutory raped girls and that forced young

598
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: women into unwanted sex. That's rape, and nothing is being done.

599
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: And I don't get it. I don't get why we're

600
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: being lied to. And I see you sitting there crying,

601
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: and it's like pouring gas on a fire.

602
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 3: To me to think nothing has been done. Nothing. I

603
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 3: also don't believe he committed suicide. This totally es yes

604
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 3: back to you after he molested you. What did he do?

605
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: Did he give you money? Did he act like nothing happened?

606
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: Did he act like you're on a first date? What

607
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: did he do?

608
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: It's just masterfully genius the way he is. You called

609
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: it out, just acts like there was nothing wrong with this.

610
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: I mean, Jeffrey would say, I mean, you're just gonna

611
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: go hang out with a twenty four year old guy

612
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: who's going to use and abuse you. What's the difference.

613
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: You're going to hang out with me and get something

614
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: out of it. He used to say stuff like that.

615
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: It's like, huh, hanging out out with me.

616
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: It's very different from me raping you. And let me

617
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: be clear, a digital rape, fingers, a rate with a

618
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: six toy, rape with a penis, vaginal, anal, that's all rape.

619
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: That is all rape. So I don't care how it's packaged.

620
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 3: That is rape. If it is against.

621
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: Your desire, it is rape and a story.

622
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: So his rationale was, Hey, you're just gonna get used.

623
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: By guy younger than me, and he won't do anything

624
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: for you. Say, you might as well let me rape

625
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: you and I'll help you get a modeling gig.

626
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 2: Seriously, you know, Nancy, you know I interviewed many Larry

627
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: Nassar victims and they were all young girls, and he

628
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: also digitally raped them too. He wasn't penetrating them. He

629
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: was doing everything with his hands, and he was raping

630
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: all those young girls to hundreds of them. So people

631
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: need to understand that a lot of these serial predators,

632
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: they do things with their hands and tools. They don't

633
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: always penetrate, and it is rape. He is violating your body.

634
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure people know that do

635
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: your boys know anything about what you're going through? Do

636
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: they know that you're speaking out against a very bad

637
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: person and really against the US attorney who is not

638
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: doing anything.

639
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: Of course they know. They know everything. I have told

640
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: my boys everything. I'm very transparent because they can see

641
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: me suffering through it. They can see the pain. You know.

642
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: They love me, so you know, and I don't have

643
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: a lot of family that supports me and calls me

644
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: and checks on me, sees how I'm doing and says

645
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: I'm proud of you. I just I've never had that,

646
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: which is why I was an easy target for Jeffrey

647
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: Epstein because he could feel by the questions he asked

648
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: me that night, if I was protected? Did I have

649
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: a father in the picture who was calling me all

650
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: the time, that was supporting me. He went after victims.

651
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 2: He knew who to choose, the ones who didn't really

652
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: have a strong wrong family or especially a father figure

653
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: in their life. And I had a wonderful father. Don't

654
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: see that, Lisa, Well yeah, yeah, he asked me. Oh yeah,

655
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: that's why I said he was master manipulator.

656
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 3: He literally asked.

657
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: Me, what's your family like, Like, what's your family life like?

658
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: How did you grow up? You know, how often do

659
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: you talk your dad? How often does he call you?

660
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: He asked me all these questions about my father, and

661
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: I remember thinking he hit me emotionally because I have

662
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: a wonderful father, you know, took me all around the world,

663
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: and you know it was coach soccer and things like that.

664
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: It had a great father, But there was no emotional accountability.

665
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: There was nothing saying, hey, I'm proud of you, you

666
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: know I love you. I didn't get that type of

667
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: emotional attention that I desperately needed. And when Jeffrey fed

668
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: that to me that night, within a few hours, it

669
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: was like I was bonded to him because he gave

670
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 2: me everything, like a fatherly mentor that I was craving

671
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: for most of my life. Then he knew what to do.

672
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: And that's how they manipulate you. They know where to

673
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: get you. That's what it was confusing later on, when

674
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: who did that to me?

675
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Lisa, listening to you,

676
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: I don't know how anyone can disbelieve.

677
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: That Jeffrey Epstein is the devil, and that.

678
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: There are other clients that have not been held accountable

679
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: and didn't end when Jeffrey Epstein died. There are hundreds

680
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: of other wealthy or powerful men that have committed rape

681
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: and probably statutory rape.

682
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: And nothing is being done.

683
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: I don't understand how prosecutors, the US Attorney and more

684
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: can live with that after they hear.

685
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: What you're saying.

686
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: I mean to me that just poor salt in your wound,

687
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: that no one is doing anything.

688
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: And that's the reason why survivors are coming forward is

689
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: not because we want to tell our story. I do

690
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: not want to tell my story over and over. The

691
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: reason why I come forward is because I believe the

692
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: other survivors because it also happened to me. I came

693
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: forward Virginia Jufray when she spoke out about a few

694
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: powerful people, but one in particular. I saw him on

695
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: the island that day. You know I'm talking about Nancy.

696
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: I want to know, are you talking about Prince Andrew.

697
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: He already had a multimillion dollar settlement with Virginia's your

698
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: Frey and now just when she's got the money, the house,

699
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: the peace of mind, suddenly she commits suicide. Yeah not,

700
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: but that said you witnessed Andrew there on the island.

701
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: Is that true? Jeffery introduced me to a prince on

702
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: the island. That's all I can say.

703
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: When I told him I lived in Oxford, England as

704
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: a child, I was like, I lived in Oxford, England

705
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: as a child. So and he was on the island

706
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 2: and he said, do you want to meet a prince?

707
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: And I was like sure, and that was the man

708
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: that I met.

709
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: And then it was Prince Andrew.

710
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: I just I don't care.

711
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're talking about Andrew, but why

712
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: are you afraid to say it was Andrew?

713
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 3: I have a really hard time geting space in front

714
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 3: of that.

715
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 2: Most survivors, all of us survivors, are afraid to say

716
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: any names for obvious, obvious reason.

717
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll say it for you. Prince Andrew was there

718
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: that night.

719
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: Can I get back to Epstein's. I know you don't

720
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 3: want to say Andrew. I'll say it for you. And

721
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,479
Speaker 3: you know what, Andrew, if you don't like it, bring

722
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 3: it on.

723
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: Question with the secretary that barraged you with phone calls?

724
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: What did she want you get away? You get away

725
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: from him, you get back to New York. What happens then?

726
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: What did the secretary say?

727
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, went back to New York. Thought everything was going

728
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: to be fine. Wanted to get on with my life.

729
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: I started going out a little bit more and trying

730
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: to suppress this terrible memory. And then they would call.

731
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: I mean, they would harass me every single week, several

732
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 2: times a week, and they didn't give up. And I

733
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: always wondered why. I mean, I know now why is

734
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: because of who I saw on the island were very

735
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: important people, even the underage girls that were there. He

736
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: wanted me to be quiet, so he was desperate for

737
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: me to further groom me and make sure I was

738
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: in his little circle, so to speak. So it was

739
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: four months. I know it was four months because Jeffrey

740
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: called me and said, you know, it's been four months.

741
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: Why haven't you come to see me. You know, we

742
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: had a great conversation on the island and he said,

743
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: you know what, really good friends with Katie Ford, and

744
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: you told me on the island that your dream was

745
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: to become a Ford model. He's like, I can help

746
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: you out. I'm going to have you go over and

747
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: meet with eighty Ford this week. And so I was thinking, Wow,

748
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 2: he listened to me. He can't possibly be a bad guy. Now,

749
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 2: maybe I was wrong about him. Maybe it was all

750
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 2: my fault what happened on the island. Maybe I was

751
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 2: flirting with him. I just started irrationalize in my head

752
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 2: because he's so smart. I mean, he's such a genius.

753
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: He listened to me on that island. He remembered exactly

754
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: what I said my big dream was. I remember, I

755
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: told you he helps people out because he can, because

756
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: he has the kindest heart in the world, just because

757
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: he can. And so he made that happen for me,

758
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: And so I hung up the phone. Next next thing,

759
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: the four Modeling agency was calling me to make an

760
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: appointment for me to go in and meet with the

761
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: owner of the agency. And I'm just like, what, this

762
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: is so awesome. So, I mean, that's how he got me.

763
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: I went in. I met with Katie Ford, and the

764
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 2: first thing she said was I love Jeffrey. He's the best.

765
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: He's such a great guy. And everyone talked so highly

766
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: of Everyone spoke highly of Jeffrey Epstein during that time.

767
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: So I was just like, oh, maybe's maybe something's wrong

768
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: with me, Like, why was I the only one, and

769
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: I started thinking I was the only one that he

770
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 2: did that too, maybe because I wasn't blonde and he

771
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: just wanted to. We had a kink, you know, because

772
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 2: I'm like this multi racial brown girl here at the island,

773
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: this vivacious girl. I don't know, I just I rationalized

774
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 2: it in so many ways that I just thought, Wow,

775
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: he's doing something for me. So I went and met

776
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: with Katie Ford and started this relationship with four models

777
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: where I took my career to the next level. So

778
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 2: I was always thankful for that introduction from Jeffrey Epstein.

779
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take in what you're saying, Lisa,

780
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: because a lot of this I've never heard before, and

781
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: I have been exhaustively investigating what I can. It's much

782
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: bigger than any of us knew.

783
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 2: Nancy, but I've been saying this for years, and nobody

784
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: wants to listen because they just focus on the underage

785
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 2: girls in Florida. And of course there were miners, but

786
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: I would keep telling people eighteen to twenty four in

787
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 2: New York, there were hundreds of them. Just the majority

788
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: of them will never come forward because I told you

789
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: they have good lives now and they've moved on, which

790
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: that's great, But I said in my speech in front

791
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: of Congress, I said that this goes darker and deeper,

792
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: and this is about the mauling industry as well. I

793
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: named a name, but nobody wants to focus on that.

794
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: But if they did, some dame they would find, they

795
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: would find a lot I do.

796
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: That's the whole point of demanding these files being released

797
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: is to find out who Epstein's clients were. You know

798
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: of several women that were trafficked out to wealthy clients

799
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: to go have sex with them.

800
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and they're in the emails, Nancy. Something you see

801
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: if they look at the emails from Jeffrey epste and

802
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: it would corroborate everything that I'm saying. And Jeffrey videoed

803
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: everything in his house. I saw cameras everywhere. So I mean,

804
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: the evidence is there.

805
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: But they don't want us to have the evidence.

806
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: Two things, how does it make you feel to know

807
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: the evidence exists.

808
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 3: And no one's doing anything about it.

809
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't feel good, Nancy, doesn't feel good because

810
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: we want answers too. There's a lot of confusion for

811
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: us as well, not just for survivors. But I think

812
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 2: the American people have a right to understand what's going

813
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: on in our country.

814
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: Another thing you said, and I've heard it over and

815
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: over and over, and it has been felt by people,

816
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: other women. You'd really be surprised at whom I'm talking

817
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: about that feel as if it was their fault. Did

818
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 1: I lead him on? Did I make this happen? What

819
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: did I do wrong? And of course I know that

820
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: you know, Lisa up here, that that's wrong, that's incorrect,

821
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: that's bast awkwards. But there's something about sex attack victims

822
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: always believing somehow it's their fault. What is your message tonight, Lisa?

823
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: It is not your fault. It took me a long

824
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: time to get there. And sometimes it's just seeing other survivors.

825
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just need to connect with other survivors, whether

826
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: it's Epstein or any other serial predator, or anyone who

827
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: can listen to you. You need support and you need

828
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: to find the community. And you're not alone. You are

829
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: not alone to.

830
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: All the survivors out there. Right now we are speaking

831
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: with Lisa Phillips who survived Epstein. I beg you, even now,

832
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: even in face of our government not pursuing this, please

833
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 1: stay strong and keep the faith. I believe that somehow,

834
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: some way, this case will be investigated with or without

835
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: Bondie Lisa, thank you for being with us, and thank

836
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: you for being brave for other crime victims to see

837
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: you and hear you and understand what you've been through,

838
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey

839
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: Epstein and ga Laine Maxwell. But yet you are still

840
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: fighting the fight.

841
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 3: Thank you. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,